Speaker 1This is the Experts Podcast, where we pull back the curtain on Australian media. Join Nick Hayes as he speaks with prominent journalists, producers and media personalities and the experts they call on to break down the big stories, find out what it takes to work with the media and how to establish yourself as a media presence in Australia. The Experts Podcast is a production of Media Stable.
Speaker 2Hello everyone, welcome to the Experts Podcast. Nick Hayes with you and it's great to have your company on another Experts Podcast, one that I think you're going to thoroughly enjoy. This man has been on my radar for a long, long time. In fact, he's one of my favourites, not only to listen to, but to watch. His name is Russell Howcroft. Russell, welcome to the Experts Podcast.
Speaker 3Good evening. Thanks for having me on. Good to talk to you.
Speaker 2Mate, thank you. Thank you. Let's just, well, let's go back to the beginning. Because you're part of the media landscape, the advertising landscape. You've been doing this for a long, long time. Yeah. What gets you up in the morning? What's the thing that keeps you going?
Speaker 3The alarm. No, no, no. Well, I mean, I've just always, ever since I walked into McCann Ericsson on a work experience, I had a work experience week at McCann, 1987. And the. Actually, the moment I walked in there, I felt at home in the sort of, you know, the ad world and, of course, the media world back then, because the agencies had both media and advertising, you know, media and creative in the one shop. And I immediately got along with the cats that were there. You know, and in fact, yesterday, the fellow that was driving us around, turns out he was also a former McCann Ericsson media bloke. And so, you know, we were able to reminisce about various names. A fellow called Alan Medforth comes to mind. He was a head of media at McCann Ericsson, 1987. You know, and, you know, David Chalk was there. You know, he was head of strategy. And Ted Horton was the head of creative. The chief creative officer. In fact, that title, I think, was Created for Ted. The notion of chief creative officer, that became a new thing, you know, probably in the 90s at some point. Anyway. So, yeah, I felt at home immediately is the truth. And, yeah. At the end of the week, they offered me a job. So, they must have seen, that is, McCann must have seen that I felt at home. And I've loved it ever since. I've loved the whole media landscape, the, you know, the interaction of commerce, society, ideas. Yeah. It's a thing.
Speaker 2Well, even the creating of names for your titles in the 90s, that would have been brand new because there's some amazing names that they fly around with these days. But to be at the. The very sort of, I guess when media was, I don't want to denigrate where media is now, but it was only newspapers. It was radio. It was TV. There wasn't the competition that is on today.
Speaker 3Well, of course, it's much harder now to reach audience. You still can reach the same amount of people. It's just you've got to reach those people in a different way. So, media is still all, you know, very powerful. It is, you know, if you need to reach X amount of people, well, you've got to do it via media. There's no other way. There's no other way to do it. Well, I mean, look, you can knock on the door. You can go back to old direct marketing. You can perhaps use that. But ultimately, you know, media still fulfills the same role that it's always fulfilled. It is a little more complex or way more complex. That's true. I mean, the story I've told way too many times, but it's true. You know, the first campaign I was involved in was the launch of the VN Commodore. And that was in 1988 in the Seoul Olympics during the broadcast of the Seoul Olympics. And the ad that we made, or the campaign that we made, to be more accurate, was $1.2 million in production. So that's late 87, early 88. Yeah, $1.2 million. There'd be very few ads now that have got a $1.2 million production budget. And, you know, from memory, the Olympic sponsorship, $5 or $6 million. I might be exaggerating that, but it was a big number. And again, there'd be very little inflation on that as well. So, yeah. I mean, you could argue that basically, you know, the 30-plus years that I've been involved in the business, over the course of a generation, it's basically flat-blind. Yeah. You know, so, but others have grown, of course. So traditional media, something of a, it's not entirely accurate, but you get what I mean. And then the dollars have been gobbled up by, you know, other media.
Speaker 2I get that completely. And I love what you're saying. And I think it's still important to get the message out because you've still got that opportunity. There are audiences still sitting there, but they're just consuming it in a slightly different way today. It's not necessarily you're being broadcasted to. It's now the consumer saying, hey, I will take in what I want in my own time in the order that I want to take it in.
Speaker 3Well, that is true. But, of course, that doesn't mean that advertising is any less powerful. I mean, it is, although I think it is fair to say that it does take longer to, you know, accumulate that audience. You know, the story that us old ad guys tell all the time. It's boring. But, you know, Sunday night, Sunday night, a generation ago, you'd get 80% of Australians watching the 8.30 movie. That's just, that is true. And they'd roadblock as well. So, you know, let's say at 8.45 on Channel 7, 9 and 10, they go to the ad break. And you would, if you were VN Commodore in 1988, you'd roadblock. And so 80% of the country would see. And, of course, this is pre-remote control. You know, what I used to love saying. This has reminded me, you know, one of the first, you know, technologies that got in the way of advertising was their freaking remote control. So, you know, because when I was a kid, you had to get off the couch and go to, you know, change the channel. Well, Russ, I was the remote
Speaker 2control for my parents.
Speaker 3They said, go change the channel. Precisely. You know, we interviewed Mark Ritson on the admission. podcast a couple of weeks ago. So, you know, we all know Mark Ritson, Professor Mark Ritson, you know, like, it's quite interesting. I mean, genuinely, one of the, one of the leading academics in media marketing advertising in the world lives in Australia and the other one, Byron Sharp, again, one of the leaders in the world lives in Australia. Both of those guys have big impact in the world. They're in the Northern hemisphere, a lot talking to, you know, big advertisers about, you know, how to build brand and Ritson was interesting in that podcast. He said, he said one thing, which of course, I have to tell you about Nick, in that they have done a lot of research on the power of audio and there's this magical 11% number. If you spend 11% of your total budget on audio, it'll have an outlier effect. So a more than expected advertising effect. So that's a great number. Easy to remember 11% of your budget, spend it on audio. The other two things that he said were. Really interested me enormously. He reckons it takes 60 weeks for, for your advertising to have real ad effect. See, I would never have, I would, I don't, I didn't know that. Right. And I said to him, is that a rule? Is that a rule? 60 weeks? No. Cause I, I actually like rules in ads. I love, I love rules. I love it. I love a good rule in advertising. Cause you know, that way you can say to the client, this will work because that rule tells us that that will work. So I do like genuinely, I do like rules. Um, anyway, 60 weeks. That's the. Number, um, you'll get an advertising effect over the course of 60 weeks. Wow. Okay. Um, and the other number was 10 years. If you're building a brand from Strack from scratch, think 10 years. Now, maybe what he's doing is he's just making sure we've got a, you know, distant horizon when it comes to this thing called brand building, advertising, generating, you know, profit, um, nonetheless, 11% of your budget, audio, 60 weeks, sorry, 40 weeks. I should say, I say 40. Or 60, 60, 60 is, 60 is the number we've got this documented now.
Speaker 2It's 60 weeks and 10 years. Love it. It was 10 years. Yeah. It's that, but that's, that's the long game. That's a long game, isn't it? And I think, do you get a sense and feel that today we're just in it for short snap bites, sound bite, kind of our attention. A lot of people talk about our lack of attention or ability to retain attention, but I'm seeing long form jump back up. I'm. I'm seeing people really wanting to dive deep into content, into information.
Speaker 3That's true. Uh, though, um, I still think we are in the attention economy and, and that is if you're a brand or, or indeed, if you're a radio station, or if you're talent within a radio station, you know, you're playing in the attention economy because, you know, obviously the public consumers, they've got a choice and they don't have to consume you. They consume more than can consume. Whatever advertising they wish, whatever content they wish. So finding a way to get their attention. That's always been the battle. Yeah. Always been the battle. Um, that's why creativity does play a massive role in attention grabbing, you know, so that hasn't really changed how you do it. Um, I had a recent, I think really interesting experience, Nick with Gruen this year. So Gruen grew this year. Um, so it's 18 year, number 18 of, uh. of that TV show, and the 28-day number was 1.5 minutes. So overnight, basically half that, and your city number, overnight, 7.50, 28-day, 1.5 minutes. Oh, jeez, that's a pretty good number, right? That's a big number. Very good number. Now, the only thing, well, a couple of things were done differently. The show itself was a bit looser, a bit crazier, a bit edgier. Yeah. So that definitely played a role. You know, Will was completely off the leash, so that's good news. But the other thing was how it was marketed. So, you know, I don't want to be rude to the ABC, but the ABC are not necessarily, they're not really great marketers of their work. They sort of operate within an echo chamber, the ABC echo chamber. Sure. But this year, a comedian called Fergus Neal, a young comedian, he was given the task of feeding the feed, well, I like to call it, like the social media feed. And so he would be basically behind the scenes with a magazine. He had a mobile phone and he created, you know, little feed the feed, just little moments that were then fed on Instagram, TikTok, et cetera. Now, some of these feeds, I think some of them got 500,000 views. Yep. Right? And in a way, they were nothing. In a way, they were beautifully done, but, you know, like nonsense, like, you know, I'm dribbling a soccer ball down the corridor on the way to the studio. Like, no big deal. You know, and I try and, you know, dodge Todd or something and then push him over, but the, it's, yeah. So there's not really an idea in that. There's not really an advertising idea. It's just feeding the feed. But in feeding the feed, for the first time in my 18 years on Gruen, I've got people chasing me off the plane, Nick, you know, saying, you know, wanting to have a selfie or whatever that that's never happened to me before. So it's the social media feed that did that, I believe, because the program is sort of marginally different, but not so different that people are going to chase me off the plane.
Speaker 2Don't worry, Russ. I'll chase you off the plane to get a selfie. And I'm a 53 year old, but you've just created new audiences, haven't you? You've, you've, you've tapped into, to new people, the way they consume, not necessarily listening to the ABC and I'll just go with the ABC. They traditionally didn't market or advertise any of their programs because it was against their, almost against their, their, their, their whole being that they would advertise. So they're doing it.
Speaker 3Yeah. What was it? Well, they don't. They're doing it via social media. That's right. Um, and then of course what they do is get highlights of a show and then, um, well, I mean, highlight that comes to mind, which is a very, it's, um, you know, it's a highlight cause it involves me. That's why I remember it anyway. Um, so a clip that, uh, two years ago, in fact, on grew and I just talked about, you know, the reality is it is, um, it is difficult if you're a 30 year old economic success is difficult as a 30 year old that clip had over 5 million views. Yeah. So. So yes, the ABC is recognizing that they are able to build audience, build brand, build connection via, you know, using the mobile phone, mobile phone as marketing device, traditional media, I media, they've got to spend money on that is, that is hard for them to do because you know what? Um, yes, they've got a billion dollar budget, but a dollar spent on an outdoor ad is a dollar not spent on a journalist, for example. So that's where the tension lies for the ABC. I think that's understandable though. If I, if I. If I were in charge of the ABC, I, I would, I would try and find a way to do use some traditional media, um, and just promote news. I don't think I'd go beyond promoting news. I just try and try and make that an asset, you know, a core asset for everyone to, to consume. But mate, I'm not saying I'm in the argument, Nick, but I'd give that a crack.
Speaker 2Mate, I'll tell you what the ABC could do with your help. Just quietly. I just think he could just do with a little bit of extra help, talk to me about Gruen, I love Gruen. I, I think it's, it's, you just talked about the years that it's been on the growth, the recent growth, it's, it's a show that's, it's not just about advertising. It's psychology, it's behaviors and the way that you and Todd particularly work with Will, make it such a consumable product, how much effort and work goes into that each show and for you personally, TV, did it, did it, did it come naturally to you? Because you're, you're, you're one of the stalwarts, you're one of the, the constants that are, that have been on the program over these years.
Speaker 3Yeah. Um, okay. So did it come naturally to me? No, I don't think it did, but maybe the producers think that it did because they will, A, they asked me to, um, appear and B, they asked me to stay. So, um. It's always a good sign. Yeah. I mean, so Denton used to, Denton, he used to own that show, um, he, he Zapruder was the name of his production company and he had fun with me every, you know, at the end of every season, maybe for three or four years on, you know, um, well, I'm not sure I'm going to have your back or not Russ. And look, I'm, and I think that he was just taking the piss. I don't know. You'll have to ask him. Um, so I didn't feel very comfortable, uh, for a long time and it's, it's true. I only said yes to being on the show because I figured if I wasn't on that show, then one of my advertising competitors would have been on the show. So I, um, I, I, I genuinely said yes on the basis of being in competition. And, um, uh, that may sound like I'm revisionist. It's not that that's, that's why. Um, and then you're also reminded me of what happened in the first three shows. Um, as we were about to walk on stage, there was a, a producer there and she had like a centimeter of whiskey, um, in a glass and handed it to. Uh, not just me told as well and others, um, you know, he have this and we did that three shows in a row. So then we got to, when we got to episode four, I said to her, you know what? I think, um, I don't think we need to make a habit of this. So let's, let's not, um, let's not keep going down this route. Um, so that finished that as a routine, although it's not a bad idea before it came to golf, but that, that, you know, some competitive golf, that's not a bad idea anyway. So, yeah, it's been a, it's been a pretty wonderful experience. Was it good whiskey though, Russ? Was it good whiskey or is it just your Johnny Walker? I don't, I don't remember, but I do remember her. I remember her standing there with a glass. I'm going, what's all this about? And I think it might've been on, you know, you know, Denton's suggestion, I think, or, you know, maybe Anita Jacoby and John Casima. They were the sort of founding three of Gruen, Gruen Transfer as
Speaker 2it was then. And, and you've had quite a few different heads sort of come through obviously, but the, the production level of it, I mean, it is, it is superb. I mean, it, it, it's, it's mandatory viewing it's, and it's not just because if you're in the communications game or, or the like, it's just really good aha moments where you go, ah, that's why they do that.
Speaker 3Yeah. Well, the production crew, um, it, every year there's a photograph, like a team photograph at the end of, you know, once the. The 12 episodes have been done, you know, it's, it's substantial, Nick, there are gosh, there'd be 60 people, maybe in the photo, maybe, maybe 50, I might be exaggerating that a little. So there's an enormous amount of effort that goes into making that TV show and you can see it on the screen, you know, the research that goes into, um, well just the advertising world, uh, is, is significant. So every single episode, if you think of a lever file, every episode will be that thick of research. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. A, a, a big effort. And of course the great thing about advertising is there's always something new to talk about because every single day all around the world, someone will be launching some new advertising. So it's always again, back to Denton, it's always feeding the beast continuously. And of course, great advertising is a, um, it's, you know, if you get the Venn diagram in your mind, you know, the Venn diagram will be a, um, a brand truth. It will be a human truth and it will be a cultural truth. So if you can find a way, you know, great work, we'll sort of find a way to tick those three boxes. So the notion of a cultural truth, that's why there's always something to talk about because something will be going on in culture right now, which has then reflected in the
Speaker 2advertising. Now you can answer this question or not, but I mean, you mentioned earlier that reason to even start or even begin on Gruen was that your competitive aspect side of it, one of your competitors might've turned up. Yeah. There's a lot of egos in that room as well. I would imagine that people that are very good at what they do and don't necessarily want to be painted in a particular light or might want a particular direction. Has there really been any kerfuffles or any sort of little fisticuffs, if you like on the, on the, on the set or does everyone just get along well?
Speaker 3Well, advertising people do get along very well. And, uh, and as Will will often say, um, you, you, like you add people, you are very polite to each other. Uh, and you are very respectful of people's point of view and very, and people's ideas. Uh, and that is absolutely the ethic of advertising. There's no doubt about that. When, when, when it's, um, you know, when you're pitching, um, that's, you know, gloves off at 20 paces and, uh, and you fight hard. You fight hard to win, but, um, when the, when the someone wins, when a competitor wins, you will always bring them up or send them a text or email or, you know, that's no, I, I do maintain that advertising keeps you very commercially fit. You know, you are pitching every single day and – or not – sorry, you're not pitching every day, but you are fighting every day for, you know, the right to continue because you can open up an agency pretty quickly. Like, Nick, you and I could open one right now. Let's do it. Yeah, but it's only – it only stays open if clients give you money, right? So I'll go somewhere else pretty quickly. There's lots of advertising agencies, of course, because there's lots of people that need advertising. You know, that's sort of this beautiful – I don't know. It's an amazing – it's creativity, competitive creativity at its best. Maybe music. I'm just thinking about, you know, maybe the music industry is not dissimilar in that, you know, you and I could start a band tomorrow and people either want to listen to us or pay for a record or not, you know. So it's a relatively – It's a relatively easy playing field to enter and then you're either good at it or you're not.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah. No, I get that. I think – and you've got to be. You've got to be good at it and your longevity has proven that, Russ. I think it's just that – the gorgeousness of that show. I love hearing that the ratings have gone up partly because of the bloke behind doing video recordings on his phone. That is just superb, adding it to social media.
Speaker 3Yeah, well, it's a lesson learned. It's a genuine lesson learned for me about – there is power in that feed. There is commercial upside. And obviously what a lot of – you know, a lot of young entrepreneurs, they're building their creative businesses just off the back of feeding the feed, feeding the feed with a profound creativity and then, you know, getting something made in China and then working out how to sell it on Amazon and they're doing that all from, you know, the comfort of their own home.
Speaker 2You just described my son, my 16-year-old son. He's doing entrepreneurial activity, doing it online. He's doing it via Shopify and importing in from China. He's 16 years of age. I mean, this is – the craziness of there is no limits to all of this now. It's just you've got to be good. You've got to do it better than others. Yes. And that's the lesson I think we're all learning. Yeah. 2020 was an interesting year. You crossed over to a little old radio station called 3AW. You joined the great Ross Stevenson. I'll dive into that. I'll dig into him a little deeper shortly. I can't wait to hear your views. But there was also another phenomenon that sort of kicked off around 2020 and it sent us into lockdown, a little thing called COVID-19. Mate, what was that like starting at Melbourne's biggest radio station, Melbourne's most popular breakfast radio program, and there's Russell joining Ross Stevenson.
Speaker 3What was
Speaker 2that
Speaker 3like? Well, Ross called me Lockdown Russ for quite a period because I started on August the 6th, which was the beginning of the second and the longest lockdown. So day one of being on radio was day one of a long lockdown. And it was very unfortunate really to commence being on 3AW radio when the city was, you know, there was a dark cloud. Well, more than a dark cloud really. So it wasn't like I was walking into a – well, it's always a fun environment. 3AW Breakfast because that is ultimately – it's a wonderful, entertaining – wonderful and entertaining show. But ultimately, the city's locked down. So there was a dark cloud, as I say. Anyway, we got over that and we – I think I'm right. Early days, we were rating 26 or 27. I've got you down at 29. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. It was big because, I mean, that's one of the interesting things. Back to audio. You know, if there's news, where do you go? I mean, this is the joy of Talkback Radio. Talkback Radio, it enables the public to be involved with the discourse. And no matter what's happening out and about in town, everyone can feel a part of the conversation, as I say. And, of course, during COVID, what else am I going to do? Well, I better listen to 3AW Breakfast. I'm going to get some entertainment and I'm going to get some information. Both of those things. Both of which were provided while I was getting used to getting out of bed at 4 o'clock in the morning. Yeah. Which takes a bit of getting used to, let me tell you.
Speaker 2It's an early start. It's – and really at the darkest time, I suppose, for Melbourne. And many will say that Melbourne is probably suffering from a lot of PTSD. The cloud is still kind of hanging over. And you kind of get a sense and feel that that won't – cloud won't disappear until there's a change of government. But we won't go into government chat because one of the things that I noticed on your program, and we've had many of your producers on this show. So we've had Mark Scorcher-Davidson on the show. We've had Kate Stevenson, former executive producer to Breakfast. She was the producer when I started day one. Beautiful. There you go. So you've got people that they will describe the program and its success. But I want to hear from you. What is the success? Because politics doesn't get a huge. Run on 3AW Breakfast.
Speaker 3No, it's – that is true. It is information, of course, you know, because the world is turning. And it's important that when people wake up that they – well, certainly they get the news. Obviously, at the top of the hour and at the bottom of the hour, they're going to get news. So there's no fear of people missing out on actually, you know, if there's something big happening, then they're going to find out about it. And then what we'll do is we'll capture what we – you know, what we find interesting. And then there's just a lot of fun and games. It is highly entertaining and it is highly creative. The wonderful thing about the creativity of 3AW Breakfast is the listeners get involved. And they – there's – I mean, I like calling it there's an idiom to the show. And they, the regulars, but then we're getting, you know, new listeners, I'm pleased to report. And they get into the rhythm of the show. And there is this glorious creative picture that's painted every day. It's new every day. And it's designed wonderfully. It's been designed over a long period of time, Nick, as you know. And it just evolves. There's no – there's never any big shift. It's one of the things that you learn about media. One of the important things about media is rinse and repeat. It's very, very important. And so, you know, and Ross Stevenson, of course. I like calling him the conductor, the composer, and the first violin. And I – if you think of that as – if you put that as a picture in your mind of what we have there, I think that is accurate. That is what he is. He is the composer, conductor, and first violin. There's very good people around him. You know, Damien Tardio, who's on the panel, he's a genius. He is genuinely a genius. And because the audio plays a big role in the show. Even the tracks that you play in and play out. During ad breaks. All contribute to the rhythm. And then Mark Davidson is an incredible producer. And a significant mind on Mark Davidson as well. So, you know, there's a – and then, of course, May and Sophie and the whole wonderful, wonderful team. And it's very interesting, you know. When you hear people leaving – I've been a listener to 3AW Breakfast for a long time. And when people say, well, I'm leaving now, and they'll be in the studio. You know, I've been a producer for 3AW Breakfast for the last three years, and I'm leaving. And they will always talk about the team that is 3AW Breakfast. Yes. And as a listener, you – in a way, as a listener, you don't recognise or realise just how true that is. Yeah. And, you know, again, part of Ross's, let's call it, production style is to ensure that, yes, he's composer, conductor, and first violin. But – The entire orchestra is welcome to – the entire orchestra plays their role, you know.
Speaker 2It's good. Got it. Yeah. And we get that from your producers as well. The producers that have come on this show talk about that teamwork. And the strength, not just in the age, the diversity of ideas that come together and your model. No politics. Love the fact no politics. Always keeping it local and keeping – not hurting anyone. That's another big thing, too. A lot of shock jocks back in the day wanted – They wanted to just get the knives out and feel that the gang up and the gang on was going to work for them. But that's never been a 3AW Breakfast style.
Speaker 3No. That isn't 3AW – that is not 3AW Breakfast. That is for certain. And the audience would indicate that that's a good – it's a good method, right? So it's a very difficult show to replicate because, you know, you haven't got Ross Stevenson. And he is a genuine – well, he's a genuine, you know, Australian creative superstar. He's a very modest man. And so he wouldn't even like me saying he's a genuine Australian superstar. But he is. You know, and, you know, we forget he co-wrote the games, you know, with John Clark. And, you know, he's co-written – you know, Logan. award-winning, you know, it's, uh, we have have fun i tell him i've won a logi you know ross i've won he's easy well i've won i've won one too mate you've got it for gruen and he's got it there so there you
Speaker 2go but one thing that i will say
Speaker 3there is a difference between writing a logi award-winning show and appearing on a panel it's very good
Speaker 2one of the things i suppose that really drives the 3aw breakfast is the rumophile and it has been around for a long long time i want to share something with you ross because um back in my very early days i was part of the media monitoring unit at rehame and very well well we
Speaker 3we have to be in
Speaker 2the office with tapes on audio cassette tapes ladies and gentlemen and for the younger audiences that they're these little spin around things that you get taped to but um we would be recording and having to yeah immediately get all of that content off to the people that were spoken to because if there was one thing if you were mentioned on the 3aw breakfast uh rumophile you were going to be heard by all of victoria that day that was it was you if you did not have that information immediately you were in trouble your day did not start well so the beauty of that is that it's longevity and it still continues today and it's trying to and and other radio stations are trying to do that and it's trying to do that and it's trying to do that and it's trying to replicate it all over the country are they they are it's it's amazing and i just i i still say to this day where the the content of delivering rumors every single day monday to friday yeah where are they coming from it's it cannot be just the listeners
Speaker 3well uh well it may not be just the the listeners there may well be people that are using it for you know their they have intention you know that that's that's fine because you know it'll either stick or it won't as you say nick you used to you used to distribute what was on the rumor file and and some of what was on the rumor file would then become a story which would then be on the news that night which would then be in the newspaper the following day so there is a you know the rumor file may sometimes often contribute to the media cycle and so those in the know know that that's the case um and but but equally if there is something that's going on in your local area you know the council's doing something that you just think is not on will you just ring the rumor file it's again it's that it's that beautiful thing about talkback radio which just connects us all to the city that we live in and all of us want our all of us want our city our society to thrive and the rumor file contributes to that right because yeah there may well be something that's going on in a particular area yes it starts at the rumor file but by the time you get to jackie felgate four o'clock you know that afternoon three to six it's you know it's on her instagram it's a it's a it's turned into something which is real and then it's on the telly that evening's in the paper the following day and so you can act you can actively um pursue change right it's a good thing oh oh it's a
Speaker 2great thing i i think and it's a voice of the people um i i talk of i talk of talkback radio is the original social media it's the yeah everyone would agree with that get together yeah and it's and and it's something that i think sticks well because it and also slightly regulated and and not necessarily as as as dark as what some of the social media can be out there um i've got i know you don't want to mention too much about ross because
Speaker 3no i was just going to say i mean there's also this great when you have a look at jackie felgate you know she's got 460 000 instagram followers and those 460 000 instagram followers feed the radio show the radio show feeds the instagram followers this is a this is a beautiful um old media new media model not that you know what i mean instagram's old media now right it's like it's just a beautiful virtuous circle of media um and that is the the the public of melbourne and victoria just getting engaged in their society it's a bloody it's a bloody good thing
Speaker 2it's no secret to a lot of the listeners on the experts podcast that ross stevenson to me is the sort of the pinnacle of broadcasters in this country and it's a shame that he's not actually recognized by uh the acra hall of fame i think that's something mark davidson and i want to jump on and start campaigning for but what's it like working well with with with ross stevenson
Speaker 3so he he he's more than the hall of fame and so if they're if the if the uh accurate if they had a hall of fame what they should do is create a legends which i think is that what they have in the afl yeah the hall of fame and then the one above the hall of fame is legends we should just go straight to that i mean seriously that that that's what needs to happen to ross stevenson um uh well obviously um i'm a very fortunate in that i am sitting in the studio with uh well many people would say if he's not the best broadcaster in the world he's maybe the second best he is extraordinarily good at it and um and yeah we all all of us who are in that studio um well what can i say nick um it's it's all it's in the at the it's what are the words he is he is unique he is my like okay let's just go back to it he's mozart right if he's composer conductor and first violin he's mozart of radio yeah he might want to be tchaikovsky or beethoven or hi or you know mahler or someone but you know i just i one out of the box is what he is he
Speaker 2certainly is and and his longevity is is proof of that as well uh russ you're the chair of the jim stein's foundation you've got your own podcast rolling out there as well and you do so much more how do you fit all this in with that early start for breakfast um
Speaker 3where does it how do you do it i don't know i i like working i've always liked to work uh i work yeah i don't know i i don't well i've never really seen workers work i suppose is the maybe that's the secret i'm not sure um i yes i do leave um throughout w and then i'll go into my son's agency good one and um i'll give him a hand where i can and jim stein's foundation that's where we uh that's the melbourne footy club sort of uh fundraising charitable arm i chair that that's true i do do that i do some brand strategy stuff with tenet which i thoroughly enjoy so you know i mean in a way i've worked hard my whole life so if i'm finishing work at 8 30 i mean there's some stuff to do around the station but you know obviously i finished pretty early what am i going to do for the rest of the day you know so um you know i i do enjoy playing golf but i don't know that i'm going to do that five days a week so there's there are there's so much out there to get involved in and you know maybe i'm not so good at saying no maybe that's actually that that's the problem nick i'm no good at saying no
Speaker 2well i i thank i thank the heavens that you didn't say no to this podcast because this is i think this is your crew i think these are your people amongst and i think we've got some great insights into the way that you work and the way that you operate um the question i've got to leave with you to finish up and and it is the future of media the future of advertising i mean there's probably you are the oracle uh when it comes to the the advertising world and space where do you think it is heading because i think a lot of works had to be done to gain trust or we lose trust very quickly yeah uh in a world like this is where do you see it
Speaker 3going well look there's oh there's dark there's a dark side there's a light side right so here we are in australia um total ad market more than 25 billion probably close to 30 billion and the tech the tech companies are hoovering up more and more and more of of the advertising revenue so more than 50 so when an advertiser walks into a media agency's office that media agency is already carved off 50 of their budget minimum really 50 of their budget and they're going to give it to california so the problem the the dark cloud of that is that the tech bros aren't going to give up they're not going to say oh we've got 50 so we don't want 60 they want 60 and then they want 70 and that's a problem because it's important that we do have a thriving advertised sorry a thriving australian um media enterprises it's it's critical and so how to how to deal with that that's that's very difficult so i think that that is a re that is a reality but then of course you get fight back right so tapped media which of course is owned by the laundry family that now owns aw 2gb etc uh they are it's now a family-owned you know media company based here in australia which they are investing in so that's sort of that's the other side and that's the that's the thrilling side to be involved with what i'm sure is going to be a an amazing growth an amazing growth story the advertising business it will always my view is it will always thrive because how else do you sell anything you can't you can't sell stuff without advertising right so that that means that there will always be a role for advertising agencies there will always be a role for very good media planning strategic media planning because you know a client with x amount of money where do they put the money is a very complex question now um as discussed earlier nick it used to be easy it's not easy anymore it's a very complex question so you need people that understand how complex that is you can still buy reach yeah in the end you've got to buy reach and um they know how to do that there is media mix modeling you know um i'm a shareholder in a business called mutinex and mutinex is in the media mix modeling business so a client has got you know whatever three million dollars 10 million 13 million 30 million they they help them make good media buying decisions um that there'll be more and more of that um i'm also involved with another business called aiden a-i-d-e-n dot services and that is a um that is that has been built on claude i should say which is an advertising brain uh designed to just help with your advertising thinking that'll play a role as well i think what that's going to do is just make everyone in advertising just better you know i don't think that's going to take jobs i just think that makes people better yeah they do that's pretty interesting technology is going to increasingly play a role but in the end in the end i've always thought advertising is just like it's just a classified ad anyway it's just there's a platform and there's an ad on the platform on someone trying to sell something and someone who's interested in buying it's just matching buyers and sellers that's all it's ever been in commercial radio it's just a joy to be involved in commercial radio because you know what happens you meet you know the drain man you meet national tiles you meet the blind factory you meet ferguson player you meet all these you know the white glove mover you meet all the these they're serious entrepreneurs nick they are serious entrepreneurs yeah and they understand the power of audio to build their fortunes right it's a it's a joy it's a joy just to blind factory exactly
Speaker 2but i tell you what if i'm going to get blinds yeah well this
Speaker 3is the re this is the reason why audio audio is so important it because it is it's a it is a low cost to entry but what so what you can do is you can afford to be there all the time so when the time is oh hang on a second i need to hang on a second on it i need a plumber well top of my awareness recent recency all these things play a role so you ring up the you know the drain man it's it's it's as you know it's as simple as that really i mean we haven't we have made
Speaker 2this thing very complex yeah i i get it i get it and and russ i can tell you each christmas it's a pataki ham the pataki ham uh most certainly one of the bullets there from 3aw i hear that i hear that every single time in fact i buy it all year just because i hear it all the time there you go russ we've run out of time you are you are an absolute you're an absolute legend thank you so much for joining us on the experts podcast i think we've we've got so much there from you and please continue to do the great work that you do across gruen across 3aw breakfast all the other parts your your podcast as well very big and uh and playing a big part in that so thank you so much for joining us on the experts podcast i think we've got so much there from you and please continue to do the great work that you do across gruen across 3aw breakfast all the other parts your your podcast as well very big and uh and playing a big part in communications and thank you for um for for taking on from john burns thank god there was it wasn't just uh ross stevenson was going to be left out on his own um it was uh you you not only took that on you uh and you ran with it on your own uh with your own way and it's uh it's superb and continues to still get the huge ratings that it deserves so uh thank you very much russ pleasure thank you that's russell howcroft he is the 3aw you co-presenter on the breakfast program he is uh the guy that you always know on gruel and he gets chased out of planes now for selfies because of social media as well and he's one of the great ad men around this country and we look forward to having your company next week when we get to talk to another expert and to another media we'll see you there
Speaker 1you've been listening to the experts podcast a media stable production this podcast is hosted by nick hayes emily morgan is the executive producer if you'd like to know more visit our website or email us at info mediastable.com
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