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Speaker 2Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty Podcast. With Borg, Betts, and Abala.
Speaker 4Welcome back. It's Wednesday, August 26th here. Fantasy Footballers Dynasty Podcast. We've got Borg, Betts, and Jason.
Speaker 5What's up, fellas? I'm the baller today. You're always the baller, Jason. I mean, come on. Well, yeah, I'm the baller on the show today. Okay, there you go. Guys, I can't wait to see you. And hopefully. Everybody listening, I can't wait to see you in just a couple days.
Speaker 6That's right. We've got the live show for the Fantasy Footballers at the Van Buren on August 28th here on Friday. Well, we'll just say Friday at this point. You two boys are flying to Phoenix for it. And as are hundreds of people, I guess. And then we're going to have a great time. And if you're listening to this and you're going, we'll see you there.
Speaker 4Absolutely buzzing. If I had to just change my accent for just a second. That's what it feels like.
Speaker 6And you did. Yeah. No, there is a lot of buzz. It's the excitement is palpable. Also, the nerves. There's just like, it feels like, oh, my gosh, we've just got a couple of days. There's so many things to button up, especially for Jeremy. He's just, you know, got a laundry list.
Speaker 4I do feel bad for Jeremy. Like the other day I did wake up. I messaged him. I was like, okay, are you thinking through this? Let me help you through this. It's a lot of things. And then I will say, you know, you guys have done a lot of live shows over the years. There's the, here's how I want things to go. Here's a little bit of the nerves. And then once it starts, you just go and you, and you just lean into it. I think that's one of the things that Mike still likes performing live. And then Jason, you too, with your background, it's like there's stuff before. And then you just get into it and you just go for it. Yeah. Live performing is the best. Bets.
Speaker 5You've done some live performances in your day, right? Oh, dude. I mean, when I was in fifth grade, I crushed that performance in the choir. So, yeah, I mean, come on. Basically the same.
Speaker 4fourth grade i was scrooge i was the lead and it was kind of a big deal but that was my peak and then just downhill ever since um yeah we got a lot of stuff going on this episode we're going to talk all things rookie and really kick up the excitement for some of these rookies which i was going through the list we've done a lot of episodes a lot of episodes previewing talking about prospects i feel like there's just a collective lull right now where usually we would be at the height of rookie fever but like every single person's kind of got a little thing going on yeah someone's got you
Speaker 6know carnell tate's got a cam ward problem cam ward's got a uh football quarterbacking problem um jordan tyson's injured mckay lemon has been injured double injured on his same hamstring but he's back hopefully won't be triple injured it's it really you know you got concepcion who's looking good except he's got a quarterback problem uh yeah it's uh jeremiah love injured it has an ankle problem it is injured it's really i i i knew all of those things i just said them out loud but when you put it together i had not put it together that it's uh it's all of them other than stribling like he's the he's the last guy yeah it's it always goes back to
Speaker 4stribling doesn't it price they're doing okay the name that you didn't mention which man i was going through a lot of rankings a lot of stuff today looking at the show i was like does anyone know is anyone for sure has anyone been in the same room as omar cooper jr this year oh dude i
Speaker 6can't fathom i i i asked you i don't know if you were on the show i think i was asking you to do research on this so i'm asking you now when is the last time that a non-injured first round nfl wide receiver pick was undrafted in fantasy football i mean he's not a late round draft pick he's undrafted he's not i don't think he's being drafted in any format anywhere ever unless you're in a jets only league or just a jets fan league i mean it's crazy he's a first round nfl draft pick and while i mean it reminds me of um he is this year's matthew golden to me one of those players that i i didn't think was a bad player certainly did not think he was a first round talent i had him more as like a third rounder goes in the first round but this year i mean he he's not even getting on the practice field i can give you the answer because i was
Speaker 4looking at rookie wide receiver adp right now depending on the side he's like 15 16th round so we would call that undrafted right in redraft in standard normal redraft leagues yes he's the one like you go back further you can go you can go to 2015 philip dorsett or uh laquan treadwell brashad perryman was hurt though so like in terms of somebody being healthy yeah alive i think
Speaker 6he's the only one in the last 10 years yeah i don't think treadwell there's no way he wasn't
Speaker 4undrafted unless he was injured yeah he was and then that's 10 years ago so we've hit that point now where we're past that threshold and so yeah over the last decade he's the dude and i can't really see the path we will talk about him because i do have some encouraging thoughts about the jets okay but maybe it's more garrett wilson related and just like the team's trajectory they've at least built the right way i think when we've done our team previews bet the jets at least we have some encouraging thoughts about the team maybe not the regime
Speaker 5yeah because usually the two go hand in hand don't they like you got to have the people in place first to make the correct selections and build the team the right way but i mean i'm with you i think i'm gonna be careful about how i say this i think they're building in a smart way but i wasn't a huge fan of the use of their capital if that makes sense like city was fine whatever nfl loved him first round pick we all were kind of lower for fantasy um omar cooper i thought was a fine prospect but certainly not like a usual first round type of pick kind of been like the in my mind more of a second round pick but um as far as like getting things in place with a good offensive line good skill group and hopefully drop a quarterback in here next year like i'm a fan of that it's just like man is this regime going to be here to see it through probably not we'll see
Speaker 4we did have some shenanigans in our main ballers dynasty league that i thought i would throw out there because people always ask about our leagues how they're going um you know mike's mike's reigning champs and i don't know if i'm going to be able to do that but i'm going to be able to do that i've got a great team with jeremy but i was approached by mike the other day and saying hey we have this manager who um brooks who's been with the show for a long time he's he wants to see if anybody wants to take over his team i literally did not think about anything any of my priorities in life i was talking to my wife and i just said yes immediately and i was excited about it i was
Speaker 6like oh thank goodness jeremy's team is bad again is what i thought yeah because i've kind of helped jeremy a couple years ago he was in the process of a many year rebuild um and then he brought kyle on and kyle rescued and saved his team and took it to new heights and now it's a pretty good team and i was very excited when we were theoretically getting you off of that team and moving you to a uh a new roster spot a new a new league new team and um then when jeremy was in the process of a many year rebuild um and then he brought kyle on and kyle rescued and jeremy heard about it he was very upset i believe he immediately just head down thumbs blazing on his phone texting you and about a minute later because you were talking to mike uh in chat and a minute later you're mike's like oh i i guess i guess kyle's not gonna do it i totally blanked i
Speaker 4was in the middle of doing about three things this week is a crazy week for us my guy's show you know our you know the live show and then my wife comes around i'm talking to her while i'm talking to mike and i just say yes i'm just typing away saying yes i look up and i realize what i've done that i've basically stabbed jeremy in the back
Speaker 5well first then you didn't actually because first what you did is you said yes and then you messaged me and you're like hey i'm taking over a team in dino you were excited do you want to be my and i was like sure man that could be great for the show that could be fun we never managed a team together and jeremy's just sobbing i mean jeremy's stressed out of his mind with the live show this week and kyle's just i mean the live show this week and kyle's just sobbing i mean the live show
Speaker 6over and over again knifing him in the back so then after after kyle says he he can't do that go to jeremy and i say well jeremy would you like a team of your own because you know even though it is jeremy's team it's i mean it's not it's not you know kyle manages that now uh we work together now now in the end bets you had not been in the main ballers dynasty league which is kind of silly since you are one of the main ballers dynasty hosts um you're in other dynasty leagues with us but our primary uh one our original one you are now in so congratulations and welcome on board
Speaker 5thank you thank you yes took a while to get here but here we are um and the fact that kyle wanted to play with me now i just feel like i want to beat him even more so i'm excited yeah the team i inherited you guys are telling me was a playoff team last year and i believe it made the playoff teams very old yeah it's very old very old does not have a first round playoffs next year or the
Speaker 6year after so this team is not a first round pick it doesn't i believe it doesn't have a first second or third round pick it doesn't have a first second or third round pick it doesn't have a first second or third round pick it doesn't have a first second or third round pick it doesn't have a first second or third round pick it doesn't have a first second or third round pick it doesn't have a first second or third round pick for this year or the next that is correct so thank you brooks for that
Speaker 5and uh i guess he knew when to get out we're going for it this year yeah i i do want to just use as
Speaker 4an example like in our leagues we have co-managers and people have different ideas of what a co-manager is i take it as a huge responsibility for jeremy and dynasty for mike in our main redraft league league of record but like it's a great way if you're trying to set up your league and try to get more people involved and you don't want to add another team or you don't really think this person is onto it yet that you can kind of bring them into the fold it also ends up being the priority list if you want to have people join the league later on who's a co-manager that's kind of how it's worked over time but i i think i just want to give people like this is the time for people if they're into dynasty instead of starting a whole nother league that is kind of like everybody's like fifth or sixth league bring somebody in right now as a co-manager and in our other league my brother and i are co-managers he doesn't want to have another league but it is one of my favorite things we call each other a co-manager and he doesn't want to have another league but it is one almost once a week during the season and talk through borganoni's jabronis and it's one of my favorite parts so just just a little tidbit there bets you bring in anybody um i haven't thought
Speaker 5about that yet i will ask what are these conversations like in diamond junior because usually if those conversations are had you know it's more like hey who do you want to start this week what are our trade targets but your team is just terrible so like what do you guys even talk
Speaker 4about we have some flex decisions we've got we've got a sexy young team man flex place
Speaker 5so i don't know who you traded for dj more in that league was that you or your brother
Speaker 4who wanted me you want to dj more it looks really bad right now based on where pat brian has gone that jason has gotten pat brian in a second for dj more dj more yeah sorry about that yeah it happens but we'll see not not really we will update you guys on some of these leagues as we move throughout the year uh let's take a quick break and then we'll jump into some rookie fever
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Speaker 4all right we are going to look at each position kind of go through some historical numbers of what we can expect from rookies and then ask ask some big questions because it's right before the season you draft these players in your rookie drafts what can you think about moving forward
Speaker 8hey rookie welcome to the nfl
Speaker 4the crop of players that we're dealing with this year we kind of knew that it would be down in some regards based on you know at quarterback we got what like one name we're going to be down in some
Speaker 6that we really got to talk about we were told the lay of the land coming into this offseason was that this was a very good wide receiver draft class and um and a pretty good tight end draft class and then down in running back and quarterback do you feel that way still bets
Speaker 4just like from i mean part of this is just vibes right from camp preseason and i know you're just
Speaker 5a vibes guy only i mean that's yeah i'm a vibes based player that's the only way to play this game if we're being honest um in all seriousness though it's like it's funny because when you think about what we knew when we did these rookie drafts after the nfl draft like you knew casey concepcion was gonna have a quarterback problem but it feels worse now right like you knew that in may that there was an issue here at quarterback but like seeing the clips from training camp and seeing deshaun watson attempt to play nfl quarterback at this point in his career it's laughable right so like it feels worse mckay lemon you know we we knew potentially hey he had an otas and and a mini camp hamstring issue hopefully he's over it by training camp like now it's lingering and it feels worse so i'm not saying that we should have seen all this stuff coming obviously but like some of it was already kind of baked in so i always remind myself of that when we get to this time of the year when you either have like regrets about the player you picked or you're seeing everything's great for deshaun's dribbling but nothing's great right now for omar cooper jr it's like even even at the time that you made those picks i still would have taken omar cooper over deshaun's dribbling with the information we had back then um but things change and i would say in in general i'm not like obviously panicking about the wide receivers in this class i still think the big three can be really good if jordan tyson gets over this hamstring issue um but i would say in general like outside of jeremiah love and maybe janeerian price the running backs are pretty you know there's a lot left to be desired do you guys do all of
Speaker 4your rookie drafts right after the NFL draft because that's in all my dynasty leagues that's
Speaker 6yes yeah i don't have any that i don't like have any rookie drafts still yet to go and i can't even
Speaker 4imagine being in a league that would i understand the rationale when people say they want to wait it's the same you know rationale what we do for redraft when we say we want to wait till the very end but we were searching through some of that data the other day about just injuries because that's the main thing right people want to wait to draft because of injuries and new information but there is information that you get over this period like i was trying to like almost come up with a graphic where like here's where we're at with these rookies we have the pre-draft process that we went through and we're at the end of the draft and we're at the end of the draft and we're we have the NFL draft capital the end the team they're connected to and then now we're kind of been in this winding road going through the forest over the last three months trying to figure out who are these players based on whispers and random beat reporters telling us their talent evaluation and pre-season statistics like that's the only thing that's changed and i think the three of us would all agree like i do not want to weigh pre-season statistics and i do not want to weigh and training camp fodder as the main like that doesn't trump my talent evaluation from what i had
Speaker 6in may i would say for the the vast majority that's correct there are a handful of guys that like stribling would not i mean be drafted anywhere near where he is right after the nfl draft um that that he would be going right now based on utilization and injuries around him and then there's also some of the lower tier guys the cyrus allens the jacoby lanes who have popped off that would be much higher uh but outside of those like for instance perfect example i was looking at my uh dynasty rookie startup rankings and i have omar cooper this guy that we will not even think of drafting it's like that's outrageous i would never take him in a redraft league right now he is my number 11 player he's a back in first round pick and that's like that hasn't changed because no matter what he is still the team invested a first round draft pick in him he is going to get years of opportunity next year i think that there will be a different coaching system a different quarterback and so like yeah i mean you you can't let no football has happened no real c in season football has happened from the draft till now um to to change all of your priors i was talking to mike last week about cyrus allen
Speaker 4and we spent like a whole you know 15 20 minutes on cyrus allen and we basically said if we were doing the rookie draft again how high does he go because he was basically a late second probably a
Speaker 6third round pick in your league maybe fourth wherever i think he was undrafted in plenty of
Speaker 4leagues what would you put in bets we said like we were like 206 207 is is like where you can take a shot because it's a weaker class and we didn't have the running backs that would fill up usually those spots yeah i was gonna
Speaker 5say the class context i think matters because if you guys remember the conversations we had after the nfl draft in may when we were doing a lot of these rookie mocks and everything like once you got to the 106 or 107 like the arbitrary like concepcion sadiq line we'll call it from back then it didn't feel good at any point after that right you kind of had to like talk yourself into a player you would take like i know in some leagues like eli stowers was like a first round pick in in rookie drafts and who knows in three years that could look great or silly we don't minimal contribution this year as a rookie but like you know i think back to those conversations and you get to the 107 to 108 109 range and like that whole crew like from like that to like 208 we're like the same player right like they went somewhere in the adp because they had to have an adp but you could have talked me into like any order of that crew of those guys and i'd be like yeah sure you know that makes sense to me because it was that type of class so with cyrus allen with the information we have now i mean i think anywhere in the middle of the second round is is fair considering the drumbeat he's gotten and most of those second round picks aren't going to work out anyway if we're being honest so i think it does make sense in some uh facets at least like attach yourself to something that we've seen as far as a little bit of consistency and opportunity too it's not just like the the camp hype and fluff which there is some of that but like we talked about the rishi rice situation like who knows if he's on this team next year and if i was making a bet right now i would say probably not um just kind of giving the off the field stuff but yeah there's an opportunity there for sure for him beyond this year
Speaker 4i think if somebody was drafting right now they would take him ahead of guys like antonio williams who at the time you looked at the depth chart you look at the opportunity and then things have shifted with digs although that's just a short-term play but it does like feel like a pump a punch in this a punch in the stomach and it sucks because you you look up now and you're like okay antonio williams i don't think this dude's gonna see the field for the first half of the year at all yeah
Speaker 6he was he was a back-end first round pick for me yeah he was a back-end first round pick for me post nfl draft when it was like oh he's the wide receiver too for the for a good commander's offense with good draft capital it's a combination he hasn't made much noise at all i haven't heard like oh he's really showing out or doing anything special and i think he had a long enough time period not that they not that they absolutely would not have gone out and got stefan diggs if he was awesome but the team really felt like it needed stefan diggs it needed another player and that you know he had the opportunity to make them feel like we've got our wide receiver too
Speaker 4he's gonna be behind burks like in three wide receiver sets it's gonna be mclaurin digs and
Speaker 6burks to start we're so back with trail on burks it's his time finally i haven't been in the league
Speaker 5hey that catch in primetime last year that one hander in the corner of the end zone that was
Speaker 6that was sweet that's all he's done i can never i can never remember if i still have him i held on to him for so many years i can never remember if i still have him i held on to him for so many
Speaker 4years there are so many players i have dotson i'm sure in a couple leagues and i probably dropped
Speaker 6him in a couple weeks hot damn i do have him i've got trail on burks right yes in our main dynasty league that is he is always the guy at the very bottom of my bench that is like i just you can't cut that guy cut he is the ultimate i can't cut that guy there's no reason i haven't been able to not he should have been cut years ago he's still on my roster and obviously i've made plenty of cuts you know in the last couple years and i've always found a reason to be like i'll do someone
Speaker 5else that's the best part of dynasty is like you forget who's on the end of your bench and you log in you know every few days or whatever and you're like what like i have this guy like you know and you get the sleeper notification that now we're getting daily sometimes hourly for your players if you have your your settings on i got one the other day for jerome ford and i was like what the and if you're enough leagues you know you lose sight of it but i'm looking back i i gotta see
Speaker 6who the last player i cut was because now i know that i cut them over uh trail on burks and here it is okay this one makes sense carson wentz okay that does make sense i mean currently the backup to the backup although i could see carson wentz making the backup job over over mccarthy but yeah
Speaker 4that even the player that clearly has no value right now we could still find a path go you know what you had moments last year with kevin o'connell can't cut that guy all right let's move forward we'll start at quarterbacks and we're really only going to talk about mendoza if you guys really want to get into carson beck drew aller or the rest of the boys that's fine you can do that but mendoza the big question is when does he start and i did a little research 35 first round quarterbacks of the last decade were taken their average first start was week five which is kind of what jackson dart was last year remember like russ kind of started the year he had that monster game against dallas and then dart kind of came in later on but if you're looking at number one overall picks it's been week one since 2019 so kyler joe burrow trevor lawrence bryce young caleb williams cam ward all started week one and as of this recording i do not expect fernando
Speaker 6mendoza to start week one no and they've made so many comments it's changed recently but for most of the off season it was comments of they would love to have him have a full redshirt year which genuinely i think is not a bad idea for a player like that the issue is you're not going to be able to do that you're there's no way you're going to win enough games they're going to stink and and kirk cousins of old could have held him off kirk cousins was awesome but you know i i have watched kirk cousins film from last year and that kirk cousins is not going to win games in the one of the toughest if not the toughest well not the toughest but you know the second toughest division in the world and i think that's going to be a big problem for kirk cousins in the nfl uh so i'm looking at their schedule they start with the dolphins i'm going to give that one to the raiders raiders raiders win week one they're going to lose to the chargers the saints are week three that's going to be a real telling game for both of those teams because both those teams probably look at that game and think i should win but they'll probably lose that game then they go chiefs loss patriots loss bills loss rams loss and then november first you'll see mendoza on the field because they're going to they're going to be playing against the jets so how many how many weeks was that that would be week eight seven yeah seven
Speaker 4weeks that we get cousins and then yeah that's that's what i'm calling it that makes sense to me
Speaker 5yeah i mean i was looking at like the rest of the schedule like does it open up at all not really i mean that's kind of the best time to like throw them in there and in theory get a soft matchup if you will but like then you get the niners the seahawks and broncos in the three weeks after that so the schedule doesn't lighten up at all for this this team and they have a late buy and sometimes with these first round picks like they'll if it's a week six buy or week seven buy they'll like get to the buy we can come out of the buy week with the rookie it's not set up that way for the raiders but he's gonna play i mean he's
Speaker 6gonna play so unfair when i said that you know he's in the toughest division no he's in the second toughest division which i think is true he's in the second toughest division so all of his divisional drew the toughest division as their other you know they're they're playing the niners and seahawks
Speaker 4and rams this year brutal have you guys seen any interviews with him recently i have not because
Speaker 6mendoza uh no i don't think the last couple weeks there's been a couple there's one that came out
Speaker 4it was cousins and mendoza talking there mendoza's talking about how he almost went to georgia this
Speaker 6is a story that that came out he almost went and they didn't answer the phone yeah he did the kirby
Speaker 4georgia head coach didn't answer the phone so cousins is talking but if you're like really like you listen to the story but then you just kind of watch everybody's eye contact my biggest question this is more like off the field just stuff in college he's the fun loving guy that everybody's rooting for and you're the same age when you're in the nfl there's a little bit of cheese that even you can see kurt cousins giving a couple of side eyes of like his responses to these interviews and his responses to things where like the other quarterbacks on the roster ade mcconnell and ade mcconnell and like their fourth string are all kind of giving this looks like mendoza's kind of a square like that's the like that's the vibes they're giving the whole time
Speaker 6so i've just he can be cringe but if anyone can take the square and turn him into cool guy it's kurt cousins i mean this is the perfect yeah this is the literal perfect mentor for him
Speaker 4and then the other thing is he's been perfect inside the red zone the last two seasons in college so 39 passing touchdowns zero ints one do they get to the red zone or no That's a big question. Two, what's gonna happen when, you know, you get your first type of three turnover game. Like that's going to happen with this team and with these wide receivers. But my opinion of Mendoza hasn't changed at all since where we talked about him at the beginning of the year. Let's talk about running backs. Way more exciting. Because over the last decade, we have three rookies on average finishing as top 24 running backs, either in total fantasy points scored or points per game. Last year, we had five running backs that were top 24 at the end of the year in points per game. Are we going to have more than one this year when I look at the crop of running backs?
Speaker 6Yeah, I think there's a good chance we'll have two. I mean, obviously two first round picks. Jadarian Price set up for at least the first half of the season to have a lot of work. We know that Love will end up there barring season-long injury. So really, it's just a matter of you need one more guy. But if you put the line at two and a half, I think everyone would take the under on that because you just don't have... First of all, it wasn't a deep draft. Like sometimes, I would say most years, there is someone who does not necessarily have long-term value, but a rookie who breaks into that top 24 who was a backup, who was a day three pick. Those guys constantly do that. The difference is this was just not a very deep running back draft class. You know, so you talk about, okay, Mike Washington. He's the hotness because Jenty got injured and he had a couple of big breakout runs. He's not a good prospect. He is an extremely fast, heavy guy, which I love that. But he did not have a ton of great production. It took a long time before he had a breakout season, 12 fumbles in college. I just don't... You know, and so if that's the kind of talent tier of these average backups in the NFL, I'm not saying someone like DeMond Claiborne can't... break out. It's just, I think it's going to be more difficult this year for the rookies to become depth. I've found that in every mock draft this year. Like last year, mock drafts were so easy to wait on running backs and just keep scooping up all the Cam Scataboos and Judkins and Hendersons and all those guys that were just good-looking rookies. It's not that way this year.
Speaker 5Yeah, and just to kind of add on to that, like going through the list of guys that were drafted and adding that, you know, that piece of the puzzle into Felix, Jason, like outside of love and price, nobody is ranked as like a 70th percentile prospect in this class.
Speaker 6Oh, I didn't even realize that. Everyone else is below 70th percentile?
Speaker 5Everybody else is below 70. So it's like the expectation is that these players will probably have a short-term window, whether it's injury in front of them, maybe the team is bad and they want to get a look at them type of situation.
Speaker 6Wait, Jonah Coleman wasn't above 70?
Speaker 5Not according to the data. Oh my gosh. You got him at 50. Yeah. 50th percentile.
Speaker 650th percentile.
Speaker 5Geez, what a hater. Oh man.
Speaker 6He was, pre-NFL draft, he was decently high ranked, but I think that draft capital wrecked his Felix score.
Speaker 5And so what I was going to say is like, you will have, I think throughout the season with this group of guys outside of love and price, basically like everybody else, I think you'll have like two to four week stretches, whether it's like injury in front of them, it's December and the team is terrible and they want to see, can Nick Singleton be the guy? Like those types of situations. You'll have those little moments, I think. But man, if any of these guys, if any of these guys turned into anything long-term beyond the big two in this class, I would be very surprised.
Speaker 4Yeah. You remember two years ago, it was basically Bucky and then Tyrone Tracy was good. He had good moments and he was day three back that we were pleased with. But then it's looking at this group beyond love, beyond price, Kalen Black is a wild outlier when you consider where he was drafted, overdrafted in terms of like what everyone thought, his production profile. And then it's like, you go through the rest of the day, three guys could Coleman do it. Maybe could Washington, maybe Emmett Johnson. I don't know. Singleton. It would take an injury. Yeah. It would take one of those guys, I guess, finding a moment like Woody Marks is probably the best case scenario of what he did last year where he saw a ton of work kind of inefficient, but it was in a good spot and he was there at the right time. And that's like the best case scenario I'd give for some of these later guys. Like even K Tron Allen, like I, I can't really paint that picture, but I did see Jason that Eli and Heidenreich is probably projected to make the roster.
Speaker 6Well, Heidenreich is that he's that dude. I hope he gets the opportunity. And I really do think, should he get the opportunity, which seems hard because Rico Dowdle and, and Jalen Warren are ahead of him, but he just strikes me as the type of weapon Aaron Rogers needs. I mean, you look at Kenneth Gainwell leading the team in receptions last year because old man Rogers can't throw, throw the ball down the field. So, but I mean, that's irrelevant. And also it will come at the expense of Caleb Johnson, who he seems like he has zero chance of making this.
Speaker 4That's the part. If, if Heidenreich makes the roster Johnson's out.
Speaker 6Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine that they're going to keep that. And, and the thing is, is special teams are what, if you're not one of the top two backs, especially three, you've got to be on special teams to make the roster. You've got to be doing that. And it's like, okay, well, Caleb Johnson proved you don't want him on special teams. He literally threw a game away on special teams, not knowing the rules. And from that moment forward, his career was over. So I don't think you want to keep him on special teams. Whereas Heidenreich seems like a guy that definitely would, would work well on special teams.
Speaker 4Caleb Johnson just raises his hand in the team. And he's like, guys, I will do anything. I will play special teams. And the coach just shows that tape moves on. I want to focus on just Darian price. Because I feel like the vibes have changed a lot where in redraft circles, he's like a fifth, sixth round pick. So things are moving the right direction of just like the public sentiment of who he is. I know as a prospect, he had a ton of question marks. I think I was the highest of the three of us. I've just, can he work in the NFL while also acknowledging how bad his receiving profile is? Where are you guys at now, Jason, if you want to look up what you haven't projected in the UDK, but bets you first, like, where do you see him in how they split up the workload and just year one, what he can do?
Speaker 5Yeah, I think what was telling to me, at least for their early season plans with him was, you know, most rookies will get, even if they're highly drafted, we'll get at least like some run in the second game of the preseason. And sometimes third, depending on the coaching staff and what they want to do. But like before this past week's games, the second preseason game, they basically said, we're putting them on ice. Like he's done. And he was a little nicked up. Like, you know, a couple weeks ago. So maybe that has something to do with it. But you look at the state of the running back room and it's like for, for this offense to function and work the way that it can from the ceiling that we've seen from it. Like it, he has to be a piece of the puzzle, right? At least early in the season until sharpening gets back. So I definitely still have some concerns about how talented is he and how like good of a pass catcher can he be as far as what we're looking for in fantasy. But certainly, you know, I think he's going to have the majority of the touches early on when sharpening gets back. I do expect this, to be some sort of a split similar to what we saw with Kim Walker and Charbonnet. And then beyond that, who knows because of Charbonnet's contract status, but I know the team is like George Helani. What does that mean? Right? Like in the first week, do they give him some run? Sure. In the third week, do they do that? I don't know. Just as generic price gets more comfortable in the offense. I think they're going to trust him more and more and let him go until Charbonnet gets back. But yeah, I think I'm, I'm moving with the sentiment of the crowd that like I'm optimistic, but we also need to remember this might change. In November when Charbonnet is back healthy, like you're not going to have a guy that's getting 25 touches the entire season. Like nobody should be expecting that. So a little bit of a tricky situation. And the guy that I think in dynasty, like if I took him in a rookie draft, like one Oh seven, one Oh eight, something like that. Like if you weren't a huge fan and you're still kind of skeptical on the outlook longterm, there probably will be moments early in the season where his value will skyrocket based off of a big game or two. And if you were like, look, I didn't love him as a prospect. I didn't love this class. And you want, you know, capitalize. I don't think that's crazy.
Speaker 4What if you took him at one Oh five though? Like what, what if you accidentally put, took him there? Accidentally? No, I went back and forth. No, I just, I was higher on price.
Speaker 6You regret taking him at five?
Speaker 4I, I took my heart out of it where I took him over Casey Concepcion. It was like my favorite player in redraft.
Speaker 5I would prefer Casey still.
Speaker 6Yeah. I Casey's looked great wide receivers better than running backs, but at the same time, I don't blame you at all. And I don't, I think at the end of this year, you're not going to feel bad. I don't think you're going to have a regret in the world.
Speaker 4Casey is just that enticing. Like he could be this that I missed out on. So Jason, what do you have him projected for Darien price?
Speaker 6I've got him projected for almost 300 total opportunities. So, I mean, that's, that's an incredible volume, 250 rushing, attempts. And I mean,
Speaker 4I already knew the answer, but I just wanted to hear it.
Speaker 6Yeah. Yeah. You have, you have access. He's my running back 22. And I think where he's being drafted right now is just an excellent spot to take him. I'm not excited about the prospect from a personal belief. Like, you know, some, some guys you just, you fall in love with and you're hyped and you've got fire and, hope for them. Um, I'm almost more the opposite for price. But again, it's like what you just said, Kyle. You take your heart out of it. You just look objectively and you say, okay, this is a really good team, Super Bowl winner, that has a really good defense, and they're going to win a lot of games. So you're going to be running the ball. There's a team that wants to run the ball. They've got a defensive head coach that really wants to establish it. They lost Kenneth Walker and Charbonnet, and they spent a first-round draft pick. Like, if you just told me that, you just said a first-round draft pick to the Super Bowl winners who lost both of their running backs, I would be like, so is this guy going in the first round? Is he dropping to the second round? So where he's going in drafts right now, which is anywhere from the fifth round to the seventh round, I think when we get closer to drafts, it'll be more like the fifth. It's just an excellent at-bat to take that swing.
Speaker 4Yeah, I like the way you set that up.
Speaker 5Jason knows who he's talking to. We love baseball.
Speaker 4Yeah. I went back and looked at our notes from when we previewed him as a player, and my notes are just like, man, I love his vision. He's kind of lean for being a physical runner, but his initial burst and contact balance can be a lethal combo. And then we were trying to figure out where he was going to be drafted. You remember, like, way back in February, we were like, man, this profile, I don't know what to do with this. Like, this is so... This is so rare for somebody to be the backup, to not have the counting stats, to not have the receptions. This feels like a day two player. And so we were comparing at the time of all the day two players that didn't see a ton of receiving work in college. And it was like, Kenneth Walker was one of the examples we gave. It's like, this dude has burst. This dude's a great athlete. They just didn't throw him the ball. I've seen a lot of reports, though, of Price actually getting a ton of work in the receiving game.
Speaker 6I've got him for over 40 targets, which, you know, never, ever, ever have thought I would project a Darian Price to have over 40 targets in his rookie season because he has literally no production profile. But it's based on all of the beat reporters, coaches. All the talk is that he is involved in the passing game. He's part of that. We've seen plenty of clips. Ironically, I feel like most of the clips we see of his receiving work are, like, downfield receptions, like a wheel route. And so, yeah, I mean, they just don't... They just don't really have a choice. You know, you say, oh, the team likes George Helani. I know that there's George Helani bros out there. Do they really? I mean, George Helani has touched the ball in six different games in his career or something like that. I'm rostering him. I mean, this is a, you know, it's an undrafted free agent that, I mean, he has a grand total of 25 rushing attempts in his career. This is not, like, standing in the way of Jadarian Price.
Speaker 5I'm so glad you said that. Because I don't want people to think that I'm worried about George Helani. Clearly not. But if you just, if you take the names away, like you said, like, Seattle invested a first-round running back, and the only other guy that is competing, I mean, there'll be other ancillary pieces, but, like, the main player in his way has, like, you know, 25 touches in his career. You'd be like, oh, okay, so that first-round pick is going to obviously smash. And it's, like, the simplistic way of thinking about it, but, like, that's probably what's going to happen, right?
Speaker 6Hold on. He has 25 carries in his career. He has 28. 25 carries. He has 28 touches, Beth. Okay. He's got three catches in his career. Well, that means everything.
Speaker 4You're going to stir up the internet, and by the internet.
Speaker 5Oh, I know the Helani bros are out there. The dark web. They're mean, man. They're mean. Say anything bad about George Helani.
Speaker 6I kind of like stirring it up with George Helani. I mean, don't get me wrong. I hope Helani comes out and wrecks, just wrecks Price. Because sometimes you just want to see, the world burn, and I was kind of anti-Price's tape. And so it's like, ah, you know, I love, like, I, you know, it's like we say we're never rooting against guys, and it's just not really true. We're usually not rooting against guys. I'm almost always rooting for players. But there are some times, like Matthew Golden. Matthew Golden, I was so down on his tape, I couldn't stand the fact that he was drafted in the first round. I felt like an idiot. And then it made me so happy to watch him go, go out there and just have a whiff of a rookie season. Okay. And, you know, I'm, I'm in redraft. I still think right now, Matthew Golden is a great pick in the double digit rounds. Right. Because again, the opportunity to take their heart out. But should he fail again this year? I'll be thrilled.
Speaker 4Jason, I'm with you. And I just want to, this past week, I had a home league draft and there's a Packers fan. And last, the year before the draft, he got Matthew Golden and he did a victory lap. And he told the whole, league why Matthew Golden is going to be such a great receiver and that he got this steal. And so I won this league. And so I got to give the champion speech, which basically just every year is a roast. It's, it's a great thing. I love that we do in this league. And when I got to him, did I love bringing up some Matthew Golden stats about why he did not catch any touchdowns. It was a great, great feeling. Fantastic.
Speaker 6But now I am rooting for the player now. Do you know what that reminds me of? Your little story there? Huh? Uh, back three years ago, we had our league of record draft and you are the co-manager of Mike. What did we do? And there was a player that was, I think a lot of people who had second round picks in this, uh, format were thinking, well, he'll get to us. Cause his ADP was a little lower. You guys shocked the world with how high you drafted. Marvin Harrison, Jr. Most of us are in Arizona or a lot of, and the words that were spoken by Mike were, you will never get him from my cold dead hands. He held onto to Antonio Brown for years and at no trade requests during Antonio Brown's like heyday, all of his good years were on Mike's roster. Never let go of them, franchise them every year. And he was like, basically I'm drafting them high because I'm keeping them forever. And no one will ever get to experience Marvin Harrison, Jr. In this league, but me. And now just a couple of years later, one year, like the end of that year is like, yeah, I'm not going to,
Speaker 4but that was a great feeling. We wanted to basically like give everybody in the room, the bird and just basically say, you will never get this player. Yeah. Everyone,
Speaker 6whoever wants a share of Marvin Harrison can easily get them.
Speaker 4Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can, you can go for it now in dynasty.
Speaker 5Score one for the pants store on that one, man.
Speaker 4That was one Mike zero. Oh man. Uh, let's take a quick break and we'll talk about some receivers. We'll be right back.
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Speaker 4Oh man. Dynasty wide receivers. It's, it's basically the best part of the game. I mean, it's fun to shoot your shot on like a deep tight end and you know, maybe Terrence Ferguson or Charlie Kolar is a thing. But man, Charlie Kolar.
Speaker 6Kolar. But I hope someone out there thinks like, Oh, Oh, that's how you say it. No, no, it's not.
Speaker 4No, you know what it isn't. I have a hard time with that sometimes in our show because language, you know, it's whatever you want it to be. And I'm totally fine, but I don't want to mispronounce players names, but do whatever you want. All right, let's talk about rookie wide receivers and this year's crop. What can we can expect since 2019? We've had at least four rookie wide receivers finish inside the top 36 every single year until last year, where it was just Tedaroa McMillan and Igbuka that did it. So we have a rich history of rookie wide receivers being awesome for fantasy being awesome right away. And then in, in the dynasty, the next year, their value just skyrockets because you're like, I have a player that hit, they were a top, whatever receiver, your Jamar chase, your Brian Thomas juniors, those kinds of players this year, the vibes on the entire first round are not great. I would say Casey Concepcion is the only one that's getting the most positive buzz of the five. Would you agree?
Speaker 6Uh, yeah, because of Cam Ward, I would agree. However, um, there, there, there, there, there, there was a, there was also a time this off season where the beat reporters were saying Denzel Boston is the best rookie wide receiver on the team. And you know, and so that there was, you know, it's this, this is what you're talking about earlier of like, you can't overreact from just camp reports and some preseason ball or whatever this time of year, because two weeks ago, this is how fickle we are in mock drafts. Denzel Boston was being drafted ahead of Concepcion. Like, you know, Every, every smart play. who you know is on x and and is a fantasy football x person except kyle you know that was mock drafting two or three weeks ago was like oh okay we've got a we've got a apparently it's boston there so i'm going to take the shot at boston over concepcion and the the truth is concepcion is probably the better wide receiver but yeah i mean of the of the first rounders he's
Speaker 4gotten the most recent positive buzz tate tyson lemon concepcion omar cooper jr lemon just got back to the field tyson we're all crying inside based on what happened but bets what do we know
Speaker 5about lemon his role early in the year i mean i think just based off how much camp time he's missed it would be realistic to expect don tavian wicks who by all accounts has been the best receiver in the league apparently uh in august to open the season as the best receiver in the league the starter and two wide receiver sets across from devonta smith i still think there's a good chance that over the course of time mckay lemon will emerge but man like think about a rookie that missed part of or most of honestly otas and minicamp with an injury then you're not on the field in training camp for three weeks plus with an injury it's hard to learn the nfl and also rehab at the same time so like man if we look up and it's late september early october and mckay he's talented i still really like him as a player i think if there is a window here in dynasty to see what it takes to get him like while there is no buzz i'm definitely interested in doing that because we are so fickle like jason said and man like thinking about and this is very different obviously because it was all injury related with gen t but like man the trades you saw with mike washington jr it's like dude if you just any news that happens if you just make trades based off of that sometimes you can get unreal deals and that was a very specific incident but what i'm saying is if you just follow the hype on rookies like you can capitalize on these guys and when guys are not being talked about that's when i want to poke around in my leagues and see what it takes to get them so there's some on tyson with the hamstring there's some fun on carnell tate with cam ward mckay lemon is playing behind ontavian wicks the sky is falling like i'm seeing what it takes to get these guys in my
Speaker 6leagues i i completely agree with you the the negative reports on these rookies are such good news for people that want their chance to get these rookies those three wide receiver are very talented all three of them i i would want all three on every dynasty roster i have and i'd even want them on redraft if i've got an ir spot you know i i never forget odell beckham you know obviously 2014 his unbelievable rookie season he finished the season as the wide receiver six as a rookie and that was off of waiver wires because he missed camp and missed the first month of the season he didn't play the first four weeks of the season and it was like he was on top of the total afterthought it was a first round pick he was the 12th pick overall and it was like you know well whatever maybe that guy his rookie season's lost you know he's he's he's missed camp he's missed the first month he'll have to slowly work in and then you know it turns out when he was healthy and he gets on the field it's like oh yeah that guy dominates that's how i feel about jordan tyson a little bit more than um mckay lemon i love i love both and tate i like all three but jordan tyson to me is like he's not getting any positive news because his hamstring seems to be a very very serious issue um and then it's like but when he's on the field it's when he was practicing for for the in between hamstring injuries he was the hotness i mean all the all the routes and videos of him just toasting guys it was exactly what i saw in college you know the i think was he your guys's number one wide receiver in this i know the three of us all all five of us he was our number one prospect this year he looked like that dude and so the fact that he's injured in a dynasty league in a long-term setting if if his injury can allow you to acquire him at any kind of a value i would be doing that and i think just to speak to kind of
Speaker 5the timing on this we are recording this on late tuesday afternoon by this coming sunday teams have to make their final 53 man roster decisions and that includes putting players on the pu p list and ir to start the season and so i think we might be getting that with jordan tyson where it's like hey he's going to start the season on ir and when i get that notification i'm going to maybe give it a day let let it kind of sink in for your league mates and just see just see what the cost is to get him because we always double count in fantasy right it's never really priced in like we know he's going to miss time but as soon as you see the ir you're like oh man like you know you immediately get this negative connotation around it obviously um there's a i think there's a window here in the next like week to see what it gets to get him on your roster
Speaker 4i took him at the 102 in our dino junior league and you will have to pry him from my cold dead hands because yes it's not great but you know you're taking this player for the long term
Speaker 6i did want to mention there's nothing there is nothing worse and it happens all the time than when you go you know i want i really want this guy i'm gonna go make an offer and you go and you pull up your league trade board and you look who's got him and then you look at the person that's got me go oh crap you don't even waste your time like i'll never i'll never get him
Speaker 4i have josh allen that league and i just can't fathom why i would trade him to people like in a one quarterback league people have tried to make me all these little boo-boo offers over the years and it's like why would i trade away this player whether i'm rebuilding or not we have him as our qb1 do i just really want to start over anyway yeah jordan tyson's gonna be on my team forever i want to talk about carnell tate though because he has gotten so much bad publicity over what he's done in the preseason and jason i know you and i have kind of talked about some of these stats you're going to be sharing some of these stats very soon on the main show but i want to remind people that jamar chase his rookie year had a catch in the preseason one and he had all the other offseason he can't catch the ball it's a different ball and obviously it didn't matter but like we're not using preseason statistics if we're on the journey like this is such a small part of it every wide receiver drafted in the top 10 since 2020 saw 100 targets as a rookie that's the like bare minimum floor for tate this year but obviously brian dable wide receivers see way more if you look at digs you look at neighbors when he was his wide receiver one brian dable hyper targets his wide receiver one so i feel totally fine with tate i'm pushing aside
Speaker 6this negative news yeah we'll we'll be talking about it uh very soon very very soon on the show but the comp that i can't get past is like we have literally seen this offensive coordinator with a top 10 rookie wide receiver pick with the wide receiver two being wandale robinson with mediocre to questionable quarterback play and it was like just target that guy every play and and obviously malik neighbors is is incredible but you know carnell tate was drafted to be you know fighting for that that crown
Speaker 4170 targets for neighbors yeah you remember a couple of those weeks where it was just like this dude's gonna see 28 targets and die yeah i remember targets i really genuinely thought they
Speaker 6were going to kill this rookie they i mean it was we always joke and not really joke but we always say like if we were a quarterback i would just throw it to my best wide receiver every play you know it's like there it it almost always works like get the ball in jamal jamar chase's hands if you've got a jamar chase he's gonna be open like why why not throw it to him obviously if he's double covered and another guy's wide open okay that makes sense but otherwise like just throw it to him every play but then when they started doing that because it was smart and it was like i i was i was starting to realize why you might not want to do that i was like that dude can only take so much hits in the nfl man joe flacco agrees with you jason yeah the
Speaker 5Cincinnati and just that thursday night football game with jamar chase 24 targets or something ridiculous like that was just that's why he was our hero obscene um but to wrap up the car i'll tell you here i'm with you guys like it's been what like a couple drives in the first game and then they played they played pretty far into the second quarter in the second preseason game and cam ward has a lot of progression to make but like you're not taking carnell tayton dynasty right now to care i mean we obviously want to go off to a good start but what he does in the first second third and fourth week means nothing to me for a player that we are projecting to be the top target earner in this offense for the next handful of years and so again there is fud right now carnell tate and cam ward and the offense maybe they fix it maybe they don't but you bet on the talent and we believe carnell tate is a talented player the draft capital says so so again if there isn't a window here to go get him i think it's interesting let's move to day
Speaker 4two and day three wide receivers because i feel like this year has given us a healthy mix and just like short-sighted i don't remember i have amnesia of how this works every year we do have wide receivers like this right like dante thornton jr was a hot name a year ago for the raiders like oh man this guy's a starting outside wide receiver this team needs targets and it's like this dude couldn't see the field but in the preseason training camp that's what everybody had this year we have a healthy mix of stribbling for the niners denzel boston who's gotten a ton of ton of love i feel like malachi fields has gotten a ton of love too and i feel like he's gotten a ton of recently for the Giants Caleb Douglas, Zachary Mariah Branch, at least, is something different in the Falcons. He's been getting some love. Jacoby Lane, even Ted Hurst recently. Chris Bell came back to life. I did, by the way, I wore a red hat the other day, a fitted baseball one. And I looked at myself in the mirror and I go, I can't do this. I cannot do this because I look exactly like Fred Durst. But, like, I just listed, like, eight guys that are round two or round three. And almost all of them are getting positive buzz. So, anybody you want to cover?
Speaker 6I mean, I will say that from the beginning, post-NFL draft, I very much was in on Ted Hurst. I really liked the player. I liked the ability, the production profile. And he's coming into a role where, you know, Mike Evans is gone. And so, the opportunity, I think, is there. You know? You know, he was later drafted. So, obviously, if we're just talking about people drafted after day one, yeah, the guys that are in the second round are going to have higher odds of utilization and all of that. But he's still a name that I feel like right after the draft, we talked about him quite a bit. He was kind of more of a sleeper name. I just don't want to forget about him. I don't, I don't, I'm not saying in a redraft that you would draft him right now. But he's certainly one of those guys that if you, if you see him. You know, week three, week four, all of a sudden, he's up at 78, 82% of snaps and has, you know, five deep targets or something in a game. I'm going to be, I'm going to be snagging him up.
Speaker 5The guys that I think are worth highlighting here are Fields and Jacoby Lane. And when I think about, like, the players that pop off in preseason and in August training camp hype videos. It's like contested catches. That was a sick play. Let's put it on Twitter from the social team. Like, that kind of stuff. And that feels a lot like what's going on here with guys like Jacoby Lane and Malachi Fields. Who, don't get me wrong. Like, I think they will be on the field and they will earn time. But like with Fields, like, we talked about him as a prospect. Like, a lot of holes in his game. Not a great production profile. Can you just stick him at extra receiver and let Malik Neighbors do Malik Neighbors things? Like, yeah, of course. And so, I don't know that I'm chasing, like, the fantasy hype of that or excitement on Lane. It's been a long, long time since we've seen, like, a second and third option in this Baltimore offense. With Lamar Jackson emerge as, like, a legit guy. So, I'm not buying those two. Personally, we get these types of guys every year, right? Like, second, third, fourth round picks that have hype in training camp in August. And most of the time, it kind of fizzles out as the season goes on. And I know you have a lot of data on that, Kyle. Where it's like, these guys in the first part of the season, generally speaking, do very, very little.
Speaker 4Yeah, it's like 40-something percent of the snaps in the first six weeks. And you're getting three and a half targets. That's the average for day two wide receivers in the first six weeks. I do like Lane a little bit more than Fields. Fields, I've basically been out. Lane is young. He's kind of intriguing of what he could be. But I agree, like, you're getting a lot of highlights of players that it's just not going to translate. Chris Bell is at least interesting to me. That, like, I did not think this...
Speaker 6I can't believe he's playing. He's playing this weekend. Did they confirm that? Yeah. Today. The report was that he's expected to play this weekend. That's fun. You know, we'll find out this weekend. But that is insane. It seemed like last week it was like, he's away, he's away. And it's like, nah, just throw him in full, you know, game mode pads. Let him take hits.
Speaker 5I also saw a... And I think it was like a projection. And obviously, we're going to get this in just a handful of days on the final 53-man roster. Like, there was a lot of Miami beats that were kind of suggesting, like, Tolbert might not even make this team. And like, Tutu might not make this team. And it's like, that would... Honestly, if I had these guys, Caleb Douglas and Chris Bell, like, just give them the runway. And like, let's just see. Like, it might not work. But who cares? This team's not going to be good anyway. Like, give them the playing time and see what can happen here. So, if you've got these guys as kind of dart throws, I'm at least kind of excited about what that means from their playing time perspective.
Speaker 4Asking for a friend. Terrace Marshall, was he on the roster? No. They didn't even list him as even a potential guy.
Speaker 5They forgot to put him in the article.
Speaker 4Dang it. All right. Well, I do think Chris Bell is very interesting. As a see how the season progresses. I would not expect anything in the first six weeks. But man, he feels like one of those... Guys like, I don't know, week 11 on that, like, could have some run for a team that just needs somebody who has a different skill set. Like, Douglas doesn't have a great production profile. Malik Washington is just a guy. Chris Bell, I think, is somebody we actually like if he's on the field.
Speaker 5Yeah. I know a lot of people in NFL circles thought he was a kind of fringe first round talent in terms of real life NFL. And obviously, he fell because of injury. So, who knows? We'll find out soon enough.
Speaker 4All right. That's going to do it for this episode. We will be back next week giving our Dynasty bold predictions for the season. Check out everything we have at UltimateDraftKid.com. And we'll see you soon.
Speaker 2Thanks for listening to the Fantasy Footballers Dynasty Podcast. If you want to take your Dynasty skills to the next level, check out the FantasyFootballers.com.
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