Romesh Ranganathan

This episode is sponsored by Helix Sleep. If you go to helixsleep.com, you take their sleep quiz. It takes like a minute. Are you a back sleeper? Are you a back or side sleeper? Side. Same? Funny you ask, okay? Thanks. Because I used to be a side sleeper all my life, but the last three weeks, both my sides hurt. I forced to sleep on my back, and I never could, and I'm doing it now. And the only reason I'm doing it now is because I'm on a Helix mattress. Also, I've told you about this. Are you putting a pillow under your legs? No. I'm telling you, Dad. Put pillows under your legs. It puts pressure off your lower back. I love Helix mattresses. They will mail the mattress to you. Aunt Lauren has one. Right. Teddy got one. Teddy got one. We got one here and in the guest room. We got one here and the guest room. People are loving their Helix. Mark, if you want to try one at your place, you get a 120-day money-back guarantee. Go to helixsleep.com slash TISO for 20% off site-wide. 20% site-wide. That's helixsleep.com slash TISO. helixsleep.com slash TISO for 20% off site-wide. You know what I mean. What's the site? Do it. Helix Sleep. Helixsleep.com slash TISO for 20% off the site. I would love that. It'll be on the couch? Sure. Okay. Okay. Are we going? Is it just. This is a beautiful space and I'm really happy to be here. This is my second time in this studio. Right. I recently recorded an episode. Well, the way things are going, I think my new girlfriend. Hold on. Who are you here with? Her name is Lily Phillips. Which Lily Phillips? That. Lily Phillips. Because there's a Lily Phillips comedian. No, no. This is Lily Phillips' annual record achievement. This episode is sponsored by Instant Hydration, who are known for their refreshing flavors, not overly salty, smooth taste, and easy daily habit. Go to instanthydration.com slash TISO and use my promo code TISO for over 40% off your first subscription order. It's Instant Hydration's best offer available. For a better way to stay hydrated, go to instanthydration.com slash TISO. Promo code TISO. There's a reason Blue Chew is the number one brand for better sex. Experience it yourself at bluechew.com. And we've got a special deal for our listeners. Right now, when you buy two months of Blue Chew Gold, you get the third free with promo code TISO. That's promo code TISO. You'll also receive an additional 10% off, plus overnight free shipping on your first order. Visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. We thank Blue Chew for sponsoring the pod and the bedroom. Ricky's on the loose. I am coming to your city, maybe, to work on my special. Come see me do an hour in Houston this weekend. I'm going to be in Tacoma, Washington, October 15th through 17th. Salt Lake City, November 13th through 14th. I am adding. A lot more dates. Go to punchup.live slash rickglassman to sign up for my email list so I can let you know if I'm coming near your city. That's rickglassman.com for tickets and punchup.live slash rickglassman to sign up for my email list. I know it sounds complicated. It's really not that big of a deal. The link is in the description. I appreciate you guys tuning into this episode. I appreciate you guys watching this show in general. I'm flattered. I've been on tour now for about almost two years working on this hour. And I've been selling out a lot of them. This is crazy. This is very new. I'm very grateful. Houston, I'll be honest with you. I don't think I've ever sold less tickets in a city than what's looking like in Houston. Houston, I might not be for you. And that's okay. Thank you for those few people that are coming out anyway. rickglassman.com, punchup.blahblahblah, yadda yadda yadda, and so on and so forth. Now enjoy the rest of this episode. Do I have para-vita on this? Tell me what that means. Are you saying no? Like, say, for example, if I say something during this, and then afterwards, I think, oh, I wish I'd not said that. Oh, of course. Really? Yeah. Because not a lot of people do. Not everyone does that. Yeah, I'm not an investigative journalist. I'm a guy staring at a guy. Indian? Sri Lankan. I know that. Did you know that? I did know that. Because lots of Americans don't know that. Don't know what? That you're from Sri Lanka? Yeah, even after I tell them. So we had the Wayans brothers on my podcast. Which one? Which ones? Sean and Marlon. Yeah, they don't know. And they just kept doing Indian stuff. I don't mean Indians. You know what I mean by Indians. Like, well, now the Guardians. They were doing Indian bits. And then I said, I'm sure. And then they kept, you know. Very good. They kept, you know, then they go, you know what I'm talking about. As an Indian. You know, you know how Indians do. You know, that kind of stuff. Listen. But I loved having them on, and I'd love to have them on again. Yeah, we love the Wayans brothers. Yeah. And the sons. Damon Wayans Jr. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. But they do their Indian stuff. They love their Indian stuff. But, well, they love talking about cultures in general. I mean, like, their satire, their movies is, like, exaggerating and making fun, like, white chicks and that kind of stuff, you know? I'd never seen it until this year. Right. Because it's had a bit of a renaissance, hasn't it? There was a lady. It was last year. It was within the past year. And there was a lady. There was a lady. We didn't do anything. We didn't. But she came over, and she loves the movie White Chicks. She's a Spanish woman. Right. Like, proper Spanish. Okay. And just showing you the cultural divide of, like, even the people, the Spanish, love that movie. Right. And so she played it for me, and I was watching it through her eyes a little bit. And I don't know. I don't know how I would feel about it, but I know I love those men. Right. You love those men. Yeah. I watched, like, you know, forgetting that, what is it? We're brothers. We're happy, and we're singing, and we're colored. Do-do-do-do. Give me a high five. Like, I used to love that show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And In Living Color, obviously, it's, I mean, you're doing it. Thank you. And I'm saying, like, the sketches. Yeah. No, I know. Yeah, yeah. But now that we're, are we good to go? Now that we've gotten started, I wanted to say thank you for having me on your podcast. Thanks for coming on. We're big fans. Everyone on the podcast is huge. We're huge fans. Oh, you know, Ben, I have a gift for him. Have you got it here for me to give to him? Yeah, I have a gift for both of you guys. Oh, thank you so much. If you're not familiar with Ramesh Reganathan and his television show, I'm sorry, I'm going to call it that. Okay. It's great. It's TV. It's, he gives gifts, and they're gags, but they're also thoughtful. Yeah, thoughtful. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I don't give gifts. No. But I'm like, well, what could I come up with in my hotel room? Sure. So, so this is stuff you found? No, no, this is, these are gifts and it's not that much stuff, but here you go. So who's this for? This is for, well, there's three things in there. Okay. Two of them are duplicates. One's for you. One's for Ben. Oh, so we've got trading cards. Yeah. But those are, those are trading cards where I make them a previous guests of mine. Shout out to Scott Hepburn, who's a Marvel illustrator who does the artwork. They're very cool. This is so good. They're incredible. Holy shit. And with that, hold on. I would like to say as another gift to be. To be, we would love to, the Tyser team and I, turn you into a hero. Well, even though you already are for the people of England. Great. Thank you. Do you have a, and that right there. Sorry. Do you want me to wait? Because you're doing your, you're doing the offer now. Like you're doing the big thing. Let me just react to this first. Who, who do you identify as, as, as like a character or as a hero? We'll take it in consideration. I don't know if I identify as, but one of the things that, I, one of the characters that I wished was bigger was Captain Britain. Cause you know, I don't know if you're aware of Captain Britain, but there is a British, there's a British equivalent of Captain America. And he's got like full, I mean, it's a little bit distasteful now with what's going on in this country because he's covered in Union Jacks. It looks a little bit, he's going to be protesting outside a hotel. Do you know what I mean? Against migrants coming in, but I would love to be a version of Captain Britain. That's. That'd be, I think that'd be great. Uh, what's his origin story? I can't, I don't know that. I don't, I don't, all I remember is seeing an image of Captain Britain, but I never, I didn't go any further. I don't know what his origin story is. So, so it's open. Well, I don't know if it's open. You're saying his origin story is open. I'm saying it's open for this, the purposes of this, you know? Yeah. Nobody has been Captain Britain yet. No, that's kind of like when I found out there was a Britain's got talent. And I think that came first. Yeah, I think it, no, it did. It did. Um, actually, do you know? Um, so is it, does it have to be a Marvel hero? No, that's just what he does. It could be a shout out to Marduk as well. Well, I, I did, um, do you know 2000 AD? 2000 AD is a British comic, right? And they've got like the big characters from that, probably Judge Dredd. Judge Dredd is originally British? Yeah. Well, the comic's British, 2000 AD. Wow. Sliced alone. Yeah. Judge Dredd would be good. Could you do me as Judge Dredd? Instead of Captain Britain? Yeah. But didn't you have this underlying mission of trying to bring more exposure to Captain Britain? Judge Dredd is fucking drenched in pussy at this point. So much. I am the law. You know when, um, Sylvester Stallone did, because obviously Carl Urban did Judge Dredd, right? Obviously. You've not seen that film? Is that a newer, because they made a newer Judge Dredd. Is that the one? Yeah, that's the one. Yes, I have seen it. Right. So, you know, it's like the tower block. So it's like that. So this is Sylvester Stallone. everybody knows right and then there's i am the law yeah and then there was the the more recent one i don't think it is that recent but more recent and it was like they go into this tower block and they have to work it's like it's basically like a video you know they're working their way up right the the boss is like trying to shut them down but just before that film came out the raid came out which was this like super martial arts from where they go to a tower and they work their way up through and i think that killed judge dread because that's such an original cool idea for a film but then when judge dread came out everybody's i've seen this in the raid it's kind of like i don't know if you had movies over here when i was growing up yes well maybe you know do you know the movie armageddon yeah uh there was another movie that came out i think that same summer but very close to it we'll put the dates up in in post called uh deep impact do you remember that yeah i do remember that that was elijah was that was that elijah wood was morgan freeman in that i mean probably yeah uh there was also canine and turner and hooch do you know either of those no turner and hooch yeah so there's canine with jim belushi there's rocky one rocky two yeah i mean by different endings yeah that's not quite the same and then what's this well i don't drink coffee much anymore uh i drink this drink called magic mind and and this is not they used to advertise this is a plug i'm telling you the truth yes but i was looking for a gift they used to advertise on my podcast they don't anymore that's what i found out about well i mean i don't know they they hate me but no i don't know there's i don't know if they're doing that anymore okay fine fine um i i like there's no subtext that i'm aware of it's just that's when i discovered them and i take one before every podcast i love them that's an extra strength because this works right love and i don't get anxious from it can you get can you get this in the uk uh i think so i don't know but it's a gift thank you so much man i actually would love like this now yeah that one's the extra strength time released so it's like i wouldn't take i think we're fine now it's early enough i've got gigs later is this gonna help i i don't know if it'll last that long okay but yeah i mean this is the seal wasn't broken so this is probably okay right see it was broken i heard it no but i broke it well i'm saying it wasn't broken before i opened you know do you know what i mean i mean i know you but i don't want i don't want to cut to you're fucking me on this sofa do you know what i mean it's not something you sip on you just damn it yeah because the flavor is fine but i'm not drinking it for the taste i'm drinking it for the drug baby it's gotten interesting yeah and that one's a little stronger oh thank you man yeah and what will happen you feeling all right that usually happens just for a couple of seconds yeah but i it would have been nice to to be completely honest it would have been nice to have a like a pre-warning that that was going to happen i have never seen that before but i'm assuming it's all you haven't you've hardly reacted at all to something you haven't seen before happening as a result of drinking that one more time well you didn't react at all if if i had given somebody a drink that i'd recommended and then something happened to them that had never happened before i would react differently to how you reacted that's interesting because you're somebody that sees stuff and they react i like a lot of people do that yes you're making out like that's a fetish or something that's no it's just unenlightened i like to take my time and think about it and respond and may i please i was noticing that something odd and interesting was happening to you as a host and as somebody who is like realizing what control do i have right now other than maybe helping keeping a calm environment because there's nothing that you're going to be able to do that's going to make things better better than if you're not at least calm it's good it's good so i'm thinking like like let's say you had a really big bug on your shoulder home oh shit jesus yes yes versus hey i'm going to come to you it's not i just want to see something real quick sorry oh jesus fuck oh you had a big bug on your shoulder and i wanted that is better that is better handle it after yeah but you did nothing though i didn't i wouldn't say you handled it well maybe if we push in a little bit because cut back to what i was doing and but be closer um what can i do there michael we'll cut back to this now i don't know so again what tell me what got you into comedy at a rough things were good for a while for you and then your dad he started fucking around yeah womanizer yeah import exports sure i read the biography then you went to school and then you had to go to a new school i had to go i had to do that not for the same reason my dad's the man but i had to go because i was annoying people i had to go to a special school pep positive education program yeah but was it really because you were annoying people um i mean you could you could boil it down to that no but let's talk about you and your life we don't have to okay so i was 13 yeah yeah my magic mind just kicked in yeah i want to say something to you that i said at the end of your podcast go for it i really like you and i like that we might be friends now i hope we will be yeah you got an energy that is like oh i want to put that in my world really yeah that's such a lovely thing to say i feel exactly can i say that you know when we arrived here and i got here slightly before you that's not that wasn't it um the way i arrived i came in introduced myself and sat down that feels like such a british way of saying i'm having an orgasm i arrived i think i probably have said that to my wife in the past but um and then when you came in it was great your energy is great man told you it's really good also may i ask a question of you i do apologize because of the setup and everything and that's fun you're seated we do a handheld vibe i would like to ask you a question of you i would still can we still do it handheld yeah uh it's just and you can go back and forth and if you're tired great i mean i want you to be happy but like i am trying to match that thing and just because when you were standing before is that i'm putting on the spot thank you that's all good thank you would you have said no really that's what i'm saying no no i'll say yes okay yeah well would you have said no he goes i would have said yes yeah he's like thank you that's an interesting part of life when like you're asking something of somebody that you don't want to like be responsible for their boundaries but you know that they might not feel like they're in a position where they could tell their truth yeah and it's like what could i do in shorthand to make sure that you feel you have a safe space to acknowledge my wants to know that they're not more important than yours is it's interesting you were saying how great my energy is yeah sorry yes well let's get back to that um i just i would love us to be friends i think you i i think you're so funny it's really smart i think that your podcast combines and just your in fact your stand-up when i came to watch you the other night it combines a really great comic mind with uh you're also incredibly smart because it's just great it's really great uh it's a great energy to be around thank you thank you i said on your podcast but there's a there's something that you do that i can't explain that well but what i'm saying is a specific example that is something that i want to adopt more of right and the the the broad example of it is you notice things in the people you're talking to and appreciate them and acknowledge it in a way that is very specific to something that i do sometimes and whenever i do i'm like oh more of that but i don't know how yeah and you do a lot and i don't know how to explain other than like you know when to laugh at something versus when to yes and it right versus when you don't maybe have a decision and you take it in in a way where you don't have to be on to like you're really analyzing it yeah yeah and then you'll make the decision how you want to respond to i don't know how to explain it different than that yeah but i often sometimes feel like i'm either in it and i like this too it's they're different things yeah but i'm in it and you make a joke and sometimes when the person opposite me makes a joke i feel that if i don't yes and it or if it makes me laugh then great yeah yeah but if it doesn't make me laugh i feel like when i'm host what could i do yeah i know i know i know you i've never seen you in that moment where if it makes you laugh great if it doesn't you you did something else that i feel does this make sense it does you talk on that i don't i don't i don't really you know it's not as i don't know that i'm doing that necessarily i believe you but i i think that um um i have there's no strategy or anything but i just feel like uh my only uh thing is to try and be as interested as not i don't have to try to be but i'm talking whenever don't you pardon don't you though sometimes what have to try to be interested or notice that as an option versus showing disinterest well sometimes you're arriving sometimes you're arriving tired right what happened there i i was a cum joke i'm sorry go ahead did you do i mean was that because as a result of what i was saying because you arrived tired and i was like oh you were doing a lot of doing an arrive thing again okay yeah all right see you wouldn't do that you wouldn't interrupt like that i didn't yeah but that's good you're just saying that i'm not just saying that thanks but um i just so sometimes you do arrive tired um and then you have to get yourself you know but i'm only talking to people that i'm interested in and then i think always and then i think you've got uh and then you've got to you know because the problem is is sometimes when you're really hectic and busy you arrive and you are like shit i i hope i'm like you know you you're trying to get yourself ready for this for this podcast and i have to remind myself i have to sort of get out of that sort of tiredness i'm rushing to this thing that's the only thing i actively do if i arrive somewhere and i'm and i'm going to chat to somebody and i've been busy that morning or shit's gone down i have to try the only thing i do is try and get myself out of that mindset you need to get in a magic mind brother i will do i think i will do i'm starting to feel a bit like you know doing something i think that's because it takes a little bit of time to metabolize right so that's me to speak on your no but i'm saying you know it might be just you know like how do you don't do you drink no no so i'm not a sober man that's where i'm at i don't drink but i'm not a sober man do you like marijuana yeah would you get in stone with me if i said let's get stoned together what here today yeah well i've got would i maybe cool yeah one of my favorite things to do especially with like friends or new friends yeah is to get stoned on here or i know we're at least hanging out for 90 minutes yeah yeah you know there's i've said this on a podcast before there was a feeling i used to have as a kid it didn't happen much but sometimes in the states at least where i grew up if if you had a friend that was like that you convinced their mom to have the friend play over because the friend didn't really want to but the mom thought it'd be nice for the kid to play over my place or me theirs they would play after school and you would get a note and you would go on the bus you go on their bus do you know this no and i always knew at school if i'm going on the bus to someone else's house or a friend was coming to remind the whole day i'm just like holy shit like i know i don't mind school because i'm trying to save like i don't want too much time to pass because then we're not playing anymore and i know like you're gonna play with me right like we're and i love that feeling it is a good feeling it's not specific to being high but but then but the one i don't know but it doesn't sound like you feel like this sometimes i feel like if you get high with somebody um it can if you depending on how well you know that person or whatever it can feel a bit dang not dangerous do you know what i mean but you you are you are the filters are coming off right and then you'll be you'll be coming what are you what laws are you afraid of breaking if i am the law i'm not afraid of breaking any laws and in many ways i do consider the law but what i mean is you know you might become i don't know too open or something i don't know give me an example uh so you're even sitting like say if i start talking about uh something that happened in my past or something and i i click into something that i hadn't that i haven't tapped into for a while what a luxury and then i start i know but then but then you experience a little bit sometimes you experience a little bit regret after that are you talking about talking about that with person or because there's cameras on no i'm talking about talking about that as with the but like say say say okay we had a text conversation where we were talking about being tired you're doing shows over here in london right and then i shared a story with you about how um when i was in melbourne i was in australia a few years ago and i was completely fucked and then i i was i i i i wasn't enjoying doing the shows and i was aware that it was a great opportunity to be across the other side of the world and doing shows but i felt like shit and it was kind of ruining the experience for me a little bit and i and and you asked i would say for bearing in mind the amount of time we've known each other you were asking very interested and uh invested questions you know you're caring questions i would say you know you're like how did that feel you know what do you think do you think you should and even then i was like not i regret having that conversation with you but i was sharing quite a lot do you know what i mean and and i feel like it was that is probably more than i think generally speaking i would get into it with somebody who i've known for the amount and obviously i'm a fan but like we've only really started properly talking relatively recently but that was quite an open chat do you know what i mean i do know what you mean and i don't see how that is a risk well okay so say free so i think you know one of the things that i've reacquainted myself with relatively recently through therapy it's like a lot of the things that i thought i'd drawn a line under from my childhood are still affecting the way i behave now drawing a line under like you know i just sort of i thought this that that doesn't define me and you know i'm past that i'm an adult now i've got kids you know the things that happened to me when i was a kid and not really rubbish i know it's naive no sir you're just aware of it right but what i i can imagine like if we got high and then suddenly i i've been talking about this relatively recently with my therapist i started talking about something that happened with my dad i started i started getting really into it deep diving into that what would happen is we have a you know yeah and you'd be really nice again we're talking about not necessarily because it's different when we're sharing this we're just talking about let's assume this is just one-on-one and not necessarily putting out into the world oh i mean i guess if one-on-one is different it is different but i'd still might think to myself did i i might come away from it going shit did i so vulnerability hangover yeah did i yeah that's it basically right yeah okay you've got two words that just cleared up that entire bit of waffle that i did there thank you uh in england uh waffle is it necessarily like a uh like a breakfast no what would you call it pastry yeah i was thinking pastry but is that baked yeah i guess a waffle is is grilled yeah do you have potato waffles uh yeah i you know i think there's a there's probably a lot of americans that never heard of that but could figure out what it is but yeah they're not as common as they are in in um maybe where they're more they do they make them more sure but that's just a potato in a waffle machine sure yeah you could put anything in a waffle machine people do it with eggs sure yeah yeah do you um hate british cuisine like you've been in london how long you've been in the uk for now got in sunday so you know four or five days but i've been here a lot because a lot of americans don't like the food here a lot of americans a lot of people don't like things oh right okay um i was in scotland which is maybe my one of my favorite places i've ever been now it was never on my list of places i was never i was wanting to avoid i just like i really want to go to iceland i really want to go to tokyo and there's lots of places i would go and would like to scotland i didn't really think much of i want to make another trip to scotland that's just scotland and go all over i went i was in enborough couldn't believe it went to inverness couldn't believe it want to go to isles of sky and look all around and spend more time i must say i must that at least the places i went to for the most part the food in scotland was so bad that i feel like that's a thing like i saw people on the street eating stuff i'm like how is that they go that kept happening and i'm eating stuff in my hotel it's a nice hotel and i'm like yeah so maybe that's a uk thing too but over here i feel like i have a better idea of where i'm supposed to eat because there's bad food everywhere i maybe just ate places that were a little boring yeah maybe but then i think i love scotland it's just the food is boring yeah sure sure i get that but you can find great food i believe it and i don't eat a lot of things yeah i don't eat a lot of things sure but i think in america and this is my you know i've got limited experience but in america i feel like if i went to if i popped into a shop and grabbed a salad the percent or anything sandwich whatever the percentage chance of that tasting good just some random thing is much higher in america than it is in the uk i think but i think if you know where to if you yeah but if you know where to look you can eat great in the uk but i think the you can stumble across something in a shop that does in america that doesn't look like anything coming out of that shop should taste that good you can get something there and it tastes pretty good well there's pros and cons to being in america sure sure so oh so last night i was uh i had a show go ahead well i came to see you the other night yes you uh you made me reflect on my own stand-up watching you do that show oh because i i just really felt like i thought you were really trying hard to and i don't know how much of this was performance and how much it was actually happening in the room but what's the difference if i know if you've been watching my podcast long enough you know that i go to blue chew to find out what women really want and it turns out what they want is stability and reliability so they're not just sponsoring my podcast according to this they're also sponsoring your bedroom performance love to hear about those testimonial testimon testimonials testimonials testimonials testimonials testimonials Listen, it's time to make your bedroom noisy again, and there's nothing that says Hello, neighbors, like a bedpost knocking against the drywall at 2 a.m. So, just to be clear, we want to say hi to our neighbors, but we don't want to knock on the door and be like, I made you some oatmeal raisin cookies. 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For a better way to stay hydrated, go to instanthydration.com/tiso for 40% off your first subscription order. That's I-N-S-T-A-N-T-H-Y-D-R-A-T-I-O-N, instanthydration.com/tiso, promo code TISO. Side. Same? Why don't you ask, okay? 'Cause I used to be a side sleeper all my life, but the last three weeks, both my sides hurt. I've forced to sleep on my back, and I never could, and I'm doing it now. Also, I've told you about this, are you putting a pillow under your legs? No. I'm telling you, dad, put pillows under your legs. Aunt Lauren has one. Right. Teddy got one. Teddy got one. They're loving their Helix. 20% site-wide. What's the site? Do it. But it felt like you were really trying to get to the nub of quite a series of quite complicated thoughts and ideas. And you looked completely unpressured, right? And that made everybody in the room feel very relaxed. What is talking about complicated ideas? What do talking about complicated ideas and feeling pressured have in common? Yeah. Or to do with each other. Yeah. Why would that be? Well, you know, there's a Scottish comic, Frankie Boyle. And I was talking to him about sort of the nature of stand-up. And he was saying to me that you've got two conflicting things, right? And one of those… is to explore really interesting ideas and to really push those thoughts to there as far as you possibly can. And the other is to keep the audience interested through laughter, right? And he was describing that process as like digging an underground tunnel, right? And your exploration of the idea is digging the tunnel. And then every now and again, you have to put little stilts in to support it. And those are your punchlines, right? And sometimes you're spending so much time… You're spending so much time trying to put those stilts up, those little supports up that you don't dig enough, right? And that is like kind of… I felt like you had that handled kind of perfectly. Was I putting up enough supports? Yeah. But also, it didn't look like you were rushing to the supports either. Very much. It's a conscious choice. Yeah. Like that show that you came to, I did… I was… I've been under the weather and I think we'll have a cough drop coming in soon. So just, you know, metaphor… What's it called? What's it called? It doesn't matter. What's what called? When you set something up and… Foreshadowing. Yeah. And I was having a really hard time that night. Like my mouth was so dry. I burnt my tongue on the tea. And I just like… I didn't want to be there. I wanted to be there. But like I didn't… Like if everyone was like, hey, can we do this tomorrow? I'd be like, yes. You know? I didn't feel that funny. And I'm so used to that. I don't mean that in a self-deprecating way. Yeah. I don't prioritize laughs. And I do think there's a good reason why, you know, a lot of people don't know who I am. And I'm… I haven't put out a special yet. I've been doing this for a long time. My peers and friends have had multiple specials and are like… I'm friends with some of the funniest people in the world. You know, I've known them since we were… A lot of us were kind of starting out. Yeah. They've… And I'm… I'm… I'm okay not having done that yet. Are you really okay? 100%. I've said this on my podcast before, but I've always felt like I'm not good at this. And… Fuck off. I'm not being self-deprecating. I'm telling you the truth. I felt like I'm not good at this, but I know I will be. Maybe I'm wrong. Okay. But like I'm not… I'm not worried about it. Like… Sure. I haven't figured it out. I play the piano and I can't figure out a song. I know that either I'll stop and I won't or, oh, I'll get this. I'm not… You know, like I'll figure this out. I'll figure this out. It's taken me a really long time. I feel like I have gotten to the point where at least I'm now… I'm good at this. I don't think I'm… I think I could be really good at this. Right. I think now I'm like, ooh, I'm good at this. Like I'm comfortable with people paying to see me now at least. So if you were to like think about… But how good do you think you could be? Do you have an idea of that? I… I think the best I could be is if I could somehow get other people to see me the way I see me. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. I think I'm so funny. Yeah. And great. And I know you don't. But now you think you're so funny and great. I've always thought I was so funny and great. Right. But not as a stand-up comedian. Just like… As a person. You know, sometimes you sing and you're like, holy shit. Like whatever key that was and whatever my throat's doing, if I could do that, but I can't. I just got lucky in the shower or whatever. You know what I'm saying? Right, right, right, right. But like if I could find a way of being consistently in the pocket and honest, then I'm not worried if I'm funny or not. Because I'll be… If I'm funny enough. So you don't get… How regularly are you getting in the pocket now? I'm making this number up. But if it used to be one out of 30 shows, I'm now 50-50. Okay. In the pocket, 50-50. Yeah. That's pretty good. I never thought I would be in the pocket as much as I am. Yeah, yeah. At my best. I like… Because when I'm not in the pocket, I'm now good enough at this craft where I could still do my stuff. Yeah. Like when you came, I don't think anyone was like, oh, I hated that show. No. I shouldn't have spent money on that. I mean, people… Well, that's the other thing I would say is that those people that were there, they loved you. You know? Like you don't… You know, because you're sat backstage. I'm coming in with the crowd. Obviously, that's how shows work, isn't it? I was a member of the audience. But they were buzzing, Matt. Cool. And I'm looking around. By the way, there's a bit of a… I was sat at the back. I knew one of the guys that worked at the… At the place, at the South Theatre. And he came up to me just before you came out. And he goes, mate, I can move you a bit closer if you want. And I said… And it was just before you're about to come on. And he goes just that… He said, sit there. And then I was like, this is way too close. Like, I… Did you end up moving closer? Yeah. Because I still didn't see you. Well, because I basically hid. Because you didn't want me to see you? I didn't want you to… Because I don't want to… Because do you feel that way when you see people? Yeah. Yeah. So, I didn't want to ruin it for you. I didn't want you to look out and go… As if I'm doing my thing and I… Yeah. Anyway. The difference between making love to a white woman or a black woman… Which isn't one of my jokes. But, you know, it's a fun concept to explore. But I was… Obviously, I'm like looking around to see like the audience response. And people are like… They love you. You know, they're proper, proper fans. These aren't… You know, it's pretty good. But… Maybe I am great. Yeah. Well, that's what I was going to ask you. I got a fair amount of messages, by the way, saying, you don't know what I'm talking about. That was pretty cool. I told you on your part because I'm like, I didn't realize that you were like… I'm a huge… You're really big over here. Yeah, correct. Yeah. Thank you for that little… Yeah, really big over here. Yeah. Yeah. I'm planet Earth. But… So, do you think there's a… Is there a possibility where… Is there a possibility? Is there a virtually Rick Glassman that ends up going down in history as one of the greatest to ever do it? Is that a possibility for you? Depends on who's writing it. Probably not. But if I'm right, writing it and I'm not sharing this so edit this out of course I'm one of the great sure but what I'm saying is like you know a lot of people talk about Chappelle or whatever do you see yourself potentially being this is such first of all it's so funny because this is my podcast now and I just didn't stop talking on yours and I won't on this don't worry but now you're like interviewing me and be like do you think you're one of the great buddy I don't like it I don't like it I don't like it don't stop don't stop I don't like it but don't stop I don't like but don't stop no no I'm not going to be one of the greats but I'll maybe be one of the most grateful I'm not but look I'm not asking I'm not asking if you think it's like all my what I'm saying is is there a is there a multiverse version like is there a possibility there is for anybody okay fine you know I'm saying the the truth is I I have gotten to the point where I now realize that there are so many perspectives parallel and conflicting that aren't wrong that exist in the multiverse exists in the minds and the eyes of the people seeing the world they're in and there's a lot that we see in common and there's a lot that we don't I will never get people the majority of people to see things the way I do I don't think anybody can do that unless you fit in you're already the majority of that thing I think that's how high people's ceilings could be in their professional world unless something happens that becomes really popular with them but like how do people identify with them I don't think there's enough people in this world that identify with the way I see the world and there's many and I that's why I think that like the people that come see my show I say this as a joke and I also kind of mean this the audience that watches this podcast is mostly socially awkward guys and beautiful women yeah for whatever reason and I do think and you and they are stunning I do think that like they like me because they see a world in a way that I probably see the world that they see it I think that sample is too small for me to be somebody that is like selling selling tickets to arenas right you know or even like big theaters it's like that's crazy I don't know if I'll ever do that and my goal is to it used to be to make funny stuff and it still is I love that I love collaborating I love making friends making funny stuff that used to be it I now really want to start making money right I do I want to be able to take my let my dog out in the yard and it's my yard so I don't have to wipe his feet every time he comes in sure like I want to have a place I want windows I want to have a place so I've gotten to the point where like I want to make money now yeah so I don't know how that will change things will I now start like doing things I wouldn't have done before yeah I mean I get yeah it's interesting is that whole thing of like what would you how much do you want to do the thing that you really want to do versus how much you want to be compensated for it you know and that is because I think if you end up you know if you if you want to get getting bigger or getting more popular playing arenas that you want to call that is kind of uh creatively that can become like a prison in a way do you know I mean because you're then like I guess for your audience that you've brought with you and and you have got a huge audience and I know you want this bigger and you want to you know you want to not have to wipe your dog's feet but they they like whatever you're doing and they like whatever you do right and and when I'm watching you do stand up and I'm watching on this podcast I don't feel like and I mean this is a compliment by the way that you're making any concession to the to the audience at all and I mean that as a compliment do you know I mean you're not you're never it never looks like you're reaching it never looks like you're trying and I know effort goes in clearly effort goes in but I feel like you're putting that effort in to please yourself you know and that is I think that's why the audience buy into it and then suddenly when you're going well I'm not going to do that I'm going to do that I'm going to do that I'm going to do that I'm going to do that I'm going to do that I'm going to do that I'm going to do that I want to appeal to you know I want to take it to whatever next level of popularity whatever then you get like a arguably get a conflict I think for you probably you're not as big as you're going to be that's almost certain and then I feel like but the way you're doing it I feel like you're in this position where you're going to take people with you and you're going to get bigger and you're going to find more and more of those people that see your worldview I reckon you've got like it's exciting man you get a big audience but they're can I say something that's that's cool that I felt last my buddy Ron Funches you know Ron yeah yeah he's here he's doing show this week and he wanted to come to a show and he messaged me and he said uh let's see what he said he said something nice sales Ricky I was going to purchase but now I need to ask for three tickets you don't have three seats left to purchase now first of all this venue is small you know so like it's it's I'm not I say this with humility if it's not like look at me but like this is still very very new for me like the I had no idea how tickets would sell here and I'm doing six shows they're all sold out or almost sold out and it's like that's fucking crazy yeah that's so cool um and it's so hard to do that yeah you know like I'm on I'm on the road in some some cities I sell out there's a lot of cities where it's like one of the one of the cities we had to cancel one of the shows because not enough people came in Europe no no in the states I don't remember where it was like there's some where it's like holy shit we uh I think I added a show once and we had to cancel a show once and then everywhere in between but when it when it sells well I'm so grateful and I think that's so cool that people want to do this when it doesn't sell well I'm not I don't think what's going on I'm like yeah you know I don't mean that in a way I'm not worthy I mean yeah like people why would who knows me yeah yeah and I feel the same way when going on stage the the I everything I'm doing is to try and make the best special I can right I want to give you a good show and I do believe I'm good enough now to where I will at least do a good show and I will at least do a good show and I will at least do a good show and I will at least give you a show that was like that I had a nice time the show other than that I'm not concerned about the audience because not because I don't care when people say I don't care what other people think I often think that like that's such a defensive place to be I very much care what you think I don't want to be in a place where I'm going to allow your feelings to influence mine if I don't agree with you sure you said it made you think about doing your comedy different I would love to I'm loving this because it feels really nice hearing this stuff it does and also like can we it's enough now uh how what did you see that made you be like oh I want to do something different and what does that look like they're listening I gotta go pee sure so you want me to just talk while you're peeing do you want me to answer that question while you're out of the room is that what you're suggesting that was a joke I was making but I do have to pee well no I could I mean I'm could you wait I can well what I could do is I want to hear it okay well what I could do is I could do that I can do it I can do it while you're gone and then you'll give me the I'll give you the pricey afterwards uh cool but also feel free to use this opportunity to do it while you're gone and then you'll give me the opportunity to like I know it's like oh I don't want to have to plug my show or whatever like you know plug your show plug a charity plug Ricky Gervais's charity um so uh you know Rick was sort of asking about um how his stand-up made me reflect on mine I guess it's just actually do you know what I'll talk to him about that but um I think in terms of plugging I'd love to be bigger in the states than I am currently uh I went and did a tour uh of North American Canada and Toronto did well in Canada New York I sell pretty well LA wasn't great uh there's some other cities that I feel like I could do with more people coming to see me so if you could go to and this is maybe part of the problem romeshvanganathan.com that that I think that probably needs a rethink um and just you know sign up to my mailing list I'm going to be coming out soon um and I hope you come and see me um in terms of charity uh I've recently become a patron of the refugee council um actually I don't think I'm allowed to announce that yet anyway don't tell anybody but that's happening I work with the teenage cancer trust in the UK uh I'm an ambassador for calm the mental health charity um so any of those shows if you'd like to support the bad news in terms of you're watching this in uh North America is that um they're British charities and um in the increasingly sort of insular uh world in which we find ourselves I can't imagine you want to donate to an overseas charity but you know I really respect him and I I think he's a great guy hey man so what is it that you noticed that was like uh well I'm in the process at the moment so I'm going out on the road in about two you would love this podcast don't you think Ricky Gervais yeah yeah sure how did you end up getting you can basically book it feels like you can book anybody on your podcast well you can't necessarily book Ricky Gervais but we're getting there he'll come on right he'll make a text yeah he'll text yeah I'll take your text I'll text you want me to text Ricky I mean I wouldn't ask thank you how would I would how do you want to work I'm not going to you do whatever you want no but what sort of thing do you want me to say uh here give it to me okay oh you're being serious yeah I'm really oh no you don't have to are you I'll do that okay but don't please don't send it of course not yeah uh hi Ricky I'm with a brilliant comedian Rick Glassman he's busy as and he hates you I'm just kidding that wasn't funny I'm not funny but you know who is um so now you make that your own I reckon with a brilliant American community there is something about him that makes me think of you in the best way I truly it's not just because you're both your friends or Ricky ha ha sorry I'm in a silly mood I forgot what I was Oh, yes. I'm in a silly mood. Yeah, okay. Well, I've texted him, so let's see what happens. Doesn't matter. Check if he wrote back real quick. Is this whole thing a play to get Ricky on? No, I shouldn't even have made the joke. Go on, you were talking about something. No, no, no, but look. Are you waiting for a text back from Ricky? I was. What's up? Where are you with Ricky, getting Ricky on this podcast? I don't know. I have to tell you the truth. Yeah. We were on your podcast. I made a joke. You texted Ricky to come on my podcast. That was great. My full intention just now was making a joke, like just tightening. No, we don't need to get into this. Okay, you don't want to get into this. No. But nothing's happened since that happened on my podcast. Yesterday, when you texted Ricky Gervais, he's not even in the country. Yeah. Has he messaged me since? Yeah, has anything happened? He has not messaged me since. Okay, fine. Should we follow up? No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, we can if you want. All right. Well, anyway, so I'm in the process of doing work-in-progress shows, and one of the things that I find, one of the battles that I've been having is like, you're just under pressure to, you know, under pressure to find some sort of punchline. I feel myself, the crowd comes out, they come to see your work-in-progress, even though you express, you know, I'm explaining to them at the top, this is like a data collection exercise. You know, I'm just trying to figure it out. Do you feel like you have to do that because they don't know? Or is that like, hey, guys, I got a pimple on my face. I just want to acknowledge it. Yeah, I think so. And also, I feel like, you know, they've come out, they've come out, you know, and they've gone to the trouble of coming to see you. Yeah. So I want to explain to them what it is that's happening. And so that when they see me kind of, because ordinarily, you know, when they see me say something, it doesn't get a laugh. And then I keep going down the avenue. you they they know why do you know what i mean or so you don't get a laugh you're like i still want to work on this yeah so i'm just gonna keep going sure don't you know though that if you don't get a laugh on that keeping going in my mind it's case by case but in my mind it might not be worth it still it might not be but it might be really worth it it's worth it if you're trying to figure out something that you don't yet understand yeah if you understand it and what you're trying to figure out is how to make them understand it if you didn't in the setup bail no that is true no i get that i get that but but sometimes you you you set up a thing a lot of the times i sort of i sort of think if i think this setup is funny if i think this premise is funny agreed then it's funny right well then it doesn't matter if they laugh or not well it yeah but then but then i feel a responsibility to them do you know what i mean so so so so then you're you're kind of under a pressure in the work in progress to go yeah i need to get to a punchline quickly so they feel like there's a point in me you know what i mean so they're having a nice not a punchline quickly though that's that's where i think that's where i think maybe we're differing yeah i don't think i need to get to a punchline recently i think i need to get to something that they could be like oh sure sure but i i i think i've slightly i want i've thought i need to get fucking noise from them quickly a noise well a laugh noise not any noise you know what i mean like there's a i can feel that pressure does a laugh if you could get 80 i don't know but enough laughs and then when they're not laughing that you're getting nothing yeah right yeah it could be more laughs than not but it's nothing and then laughs and then nothing versus less laughs but all the other time they're looking at you and they're like maybe like their mouths open a little or they're smiling or they're like trying to figure something out is one of those more valuable than the other to you um the honest answer is i don't know i i think that earlier in my career i just wanted them to laugh laugh a lot you know you just want them to because i sort of think about when i was watching stand-up and sometimes i feel exhausted from laughing at some stand-up eddie murphy yeah exactly right i did my research and so i love that and then but then also like we're never gonna be eddie murphy no i know i mean that's no i know that my remake of golden child went terrible you have to send it to me if there's any truth in this no unfortunately not but um but i uh but i think as i as i've got more experience or got more into you know got more into doing it i feel like what you're talking about is is is making people kind of do that or they think and they slightly think in a different way or you're twisting something that is that has become increasingly valuable i think because because like it's the difference between like i feel like you know you want them to have a bit of people came out your show the other night with a takeaway from that you know i think that you made people reflect on stuff i'm trying to not ask too many i want to hear really what i'm sorry well i'll have you back on tell me about me a little bit well i don't know how much you want me to talk about what you talked about in the show but i mean i don't think it's okay i could take stuff out i mean i don't like just like what's the take like what do you mean i think you cause discussion you know people were talking about what you talked about in the show as they're you know like people discussing what you discussed this feels so good that i'm glad i'm being serious good i'm glad but the you know like the because i felt that show is not i was not happy with that show but you know ben you met ben obviously you got him a gift uh he and i were talking about how much the audience loved it like they they loved it man all right great we gotta move on now now it now it feels too much thank you i love to know that so your dad was cheating correct yeah and uh then they got back together yeah but you were a child sure and it affects you more than it affected them as far as development is concerned sure now you're an adult yeah you've underlined all your childhood stuff yeah you're good to go yeah you also got three kids of your own and you want to break the cycle correct but at the same time you're just learning about this cycle over and over again every day holy shit why do you think comedy was your path here's the truth that's that's what that's you know what i mean and then you got to be like well but also it is important um well i mean i i don't think there's a there's not a there's not a very interesting answer to that question so when somebody asks you that on an interview yeah and you don't think there's an interesting answer to it but you answer it because they asked it yeah how much does that frame of mind parallel the idea of you being on stage talking about something that you don't really want to talk about right now yeah but you think they're asking for it or this is what you have to offer yeah are you able to navigate that differently in a one-on-one conversation versus when you're in a conversation with someone who's not in a conversation with someone who's not in a conversation conversation versus when you're in a conversation with someone who's not in a conversation with in front of an audience yes i mean look i said to you there's not an interesting answer to that question because i think we're on the path to being friends right so i feel comfortable enough to say that to you whereas if i was in an if i was in an interview situation like i was doing pr for something i would just answer the question right okay in in front of an audience i i think that i wouldn't ever start a topic that i don't want to talk about but sometimes i i have been guilty in the moment just doing a punchline comes to me or a joke comes to me and i say it and then i just think that was so cheap and then i say that and i say i wish we hadn't laughed at that because i regret saying sure do you know what i mean i do but i'm saying longer form like if you're talking about something and while you're talking about it i don't want to do this bit anymore but you already set it up oh then i'll just abandon it right i have i have done that but but most of the time i abandon it because i just think this looks a lot better on in the notebook than it is now as i'm saying it out loud you know you just sort of go why have i started talking about this and then i just go you're probably the only people that will ever hear me say any of that stuff and then i move on yeah it's interesting that like talking to a friend it's easier to be honest in a pr an interview it's not as much and on stage i think there's you could be this way or this way yeah and i think i don't know if stand-up has helped my interpersonal skills more or if my inner like learning how to talk to people has helped me on stage i don't know if stand-up has helped my interpersonal skills more or if my inner like but the idea of being able to say whatever you want and whatever you feel i tend to over communicate and use too many words that's the con of the pros and cons but the pros is like oh we can say whatever we want yeah and i interpersonally i always want to be able to do that yeah you know i always want to feel safe to do that and getting laughs in person feels so good but not getting laughs in person is fine it's weird that on stage you really want to be able to say whatever you oh you better get those laughs i just logically i think that's weird have you never felt that of course i i felt it and i feel it i understand i'm like you care about laughs of course i understand it just doesn't hold the weight for me that i think it does for most comedians in a way that that's probably why they're more successful than me you got yeah you know what i mean like yeah that makes sense yeah so i mean i don't think i'm doing it right i just like i don't what i'm about to say isn't that funny i don't want to have to make it funny and then there's sometimes we're like you guys aren't being silly but like i really want to be silly and funny yeah i don't want to have to like what do you want for me right now like what would you like me to make for dinner this is what I make. This is what I cook. And sometimes I don't want to cook. And like, I think for better and worse, that's not just performing, that's social interactions. And some audiences are going to connect with you. And some people are going to connect with you. I really do not want to have to be able to read a room everywhere I go well enough to be able to get you to connect with me. And I really still want you to. And where do we put our energy? And I have decided that my energy is not going to go into, because this is a weak point for me, figuring out, do you, by the way, did you want me to ask for a glass of water or something for you? Oh, I'd love water, if that's possible. Would you mind getting that? Thank you so much. I'm so sorry. The reason I just asked that was as an example, but like, if it were me and I had to go to the bathroom, I would just say it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I needed a glass of water, I would ask for it. Oh, in this conversation, I realized you might not. Let me ask you. And now you're going to get a water because I'm like, oh, I'm hosting him. I'll, I don't want to have to ask if you want water. In fact, I wouldn't have really thought about it consciously had I not just been using this as an example. I want you to say, I want water. It would be my pleasure to ask somebody to go get it for you. Yeah, it does. But there's a lot of people in this world that do not say what they want. There's people that don't know what they want. And with that, I'm not going to go on stage and think I better figure out what they want. I'm not good at that. Yeah. Yeah, I get that. But are you? No, I don't think I'm particularly good at that. But I think that I think that the the unbelievable wait for years. No, you don't. Please. I insist. No, no. Please, please. Fine. It's fine. Please. Please. I won't. I'm sorry. Please. What were you saying? Please. You're doing it. Doing what? You're trying to control my behavior. I'm not trying to control your behavior. You won't continue until I drink? I'm not saying it's not a standoff. I'm just saying I'd love you to feel. I'll wait. I think I'd love to wait. Do you want to just? I would love to. Yeah. Do you mind? Go for it. Thank you. Thanks, man. No problem. What would the hell were we talking about? Being able to pick up on like, oh, you know what? This crowd's going to like. Oh, no, I don't do that. No, I don't do that. No, I don't think I do that. Oh, thank you very much. Thank you. Yeah, he's been he's overhydrated, if anything. Thank you so much. I don't need that. You know what? For you. I'll have it. Yeah. Yeah. Enjoy it. No one gives me more. Well, I don't know if that's me giving it to you, but it is me gifting it to you. Enjoy. That was so nice. Really? You've just got away. I know you're joking, but. No, but you do. Sometimes I'll be walking down the street and I'll see a woman with huge tits and I'll say, you have huge tits. Jesus Christ. I'll see a guy with a big wiener. I'll do the same thing. No, I know. And I would have said it. I would have. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks. But there's other things that you have. Sure. Thanks, man. Huge tits, for example. No, but it's really, you know. It's really what a wonderful thing we get to do. I don't think I try and give the room what they want, but but but I do. I know. I do think that you. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how that's going to. As you decide that you're going to get I don't know if it's going to change your behavior. You're wanting to get bigger or make more money. What I mean by that isn't like I want to I'm going to do the things I'm doing in a way that is dishonest. What I mean more is I like I'll take jobs that I wouldn't have taken. OK, fine. Yeah. Yeah. No, totally. I think that you can. I think that it's it's one of the dangers of but it's made me reflect on sort of how I talk to my kids about stuff like this, because, you know, I feel very lucky to do what we do. And it's incredible. And most of my friends don't do stuff that they love, you know, that they're doing stuff because they need to pay the bills. Right. I feel really blessed. But the the downside of that, you know, the downside of that is it takes everything you can accidentally give it everything. You don't punch out. No, because a lot of the times I don't feel like I'm the cost is the same to my energy and time or whatever, but I don't feel like it costs is the same to as well as if I was working. In an office, you know, I mean, like you if this isn't harder. No. And I don't ever dread going to, you know, I'm I don't ever dread going to work. My day to day is coming and talking to you. Then I'd go and do something and then I'm going to do some gigs. Well, I know it's so fucking cool. What a fucking great life. Right. But still, I'm away. I'm out. I'm thinking there's a creative, you know, there's all of that sort of stuff. And I want to talk about this is just fun, but like the cost of the same. But what happens is you then you forget how much you're putting yourself because you love it. You put so much of yourself into it that actually weird is kind of like a trap, you know, because it doesn't feel like work was if it feels like work, your brain goes to you. I've worked loads, man. I need to not you know, I need to I'm thinking about work too much. I don't ever feel like that about this because I love it so much and it doesn't feel like that. And then suddenly months go by and I think, Jesus Christ, man, like I need to take my wife out or what do you know what I mean? Like you sort of feel I need to invest some time into this. And so I think that this is a blessing, but also it can you can accidently. Give it so much because it's so great, you know, I mean, yeah, and that's something I hadn't thought of before I started doing it. I just thought that's what you're saying about when you were in Australia. Yeah, you sort of go find something, you know, that is the cliche, isn't it? You know, find something, find a job you love. You never work a day in your life or whatever, and that is true. But it's still it's still it still exerts a cost on you, you know, kind of energy wise and all that stuff. And sometimes I forget about that. And that's something you kind of have to check sometimes, I think you said. But I have an analogy for that is like when you're playing sport and you injure yourself, you sprain an ankle or whatever, but the adrenaline is going and you're fine. But like and then then you're really hurting when you're done and then have the pattern recognition to know, like when something happens, you're like, I feel OK. I'm at a certain age where I don't heal that great, even though I feel like I could keep going. I know long term it's best for me if I just stop right now. Yeah. And that's easier when the stakes are lower. But when you said that you were in Australia and it was your first time there and you weren't doing well. This is back to telling the audience, the text exchange that we talked about earlier. Yeah. And you felt bad, but you went on stage anyway and you really pushed it. And and Mike, my career, I don't know what I asked, but my curiosity was and you you you preferred you would have if you could do it again, you wouldn't have done it that way. Yeah. And my curiosity was, did you feel bad because like, oh, you shouldn't have done those shows because now looking back, you regret having done those shows because you didn't you wasn't good enough or it's something bad happened to you that if you had you not done that, things would have been better. Or is it that like and what you said, it was more like it's not the shows themselves that was the problem. It was the fact that my priority was to do them. Yeah. I don't know what would have had to have happened to me for me to not do those shows. And that to me. In a very, very low stakes way. That's how I felt that show that you I'm like, I'm taking a sip of water. I'm borrowing lozenges. Like, I don't know how I could talk. Yeah. But what am I going to do? Not do this. I'm here. Yeah, exactly. But then you go, is that okay that I feel like that? Like, I don't know. I don't know either. I just sort of think it's not that I did the shows. The shows were great. And I plowed through and I was a little bit mentally low and feeling a bit down the whole way through that trip. And the shows were fine. The audience didn't know. And it was fine. The audience didn't know and you didn't tell them. No, I didn't tell them. Right. So I just go and do the show. I would love to be able to do that. That's a weakness of mine. They know I'm not feeling well. I'm sorry, go on. I don't think that's a weakness though. But I didn't tell them. They didn't know. Professional. What I felt like was it was a bit of a red flag for me to myself that I put that above and beyond anything else. And I would have felt better even if I'd have considered not doing it. If I'd have thought about not doing the shows and then eventually fallen upon the conclusion I'm going to go and do the shows, I would have gone, okay. You thought about it. You know, you considered it. There's a possibility you wouldn't have done the shows to look after yourself. I didn't. And then afters I thought, man, what's up with you? But at the same time, the other side of that is people have come out. You know, people have bought tickets. You don't want to let people. I don't want to let people down. And so, and what I'm doing is this is not a hard thing for me to, oh, well done. You went and did 70 minutes on stage. You're a hero, man. You know, like that's, I'm not saying that. But like at the same time, I sometimes feel like. There is no point at which I'd go, oh, I need to look after my. Do you think there's something in the culture of the UK and the rock band Queen that kind of brought into this idea like the show must go on? Do you feel that way? I don't know if it's a British thing. I feel personally like my thing with it is I feel so lucky that I'm doing this for a living. Like the fact that. When I was first able to pay my weekly grocery bill. Just from doing comedy. I couldn't. not believe it man like holy shit it feels incredible i don't ever really want to lose that so then so then what happens is you go am i now gonna like not do a thing that i'm so lucky to be doing i think it sort of comes from that driven by fear i understand yeah and imposter syndrome and kind of general low self-esteem i never understood the imposter syndrome and i know the larry david says says i think i've heard him say it once on an interview once i don't remember if that was correct or not but like the greats say that so like it's not a problem what does that mean what do you mean like you're not this i i'm i'm not like being motivational i really don't understand the imposter syndrome okay i i think imposter syndrome is is that i i have come to be i have come to be sitting opposite rick glassman on his podcast as a result of of luck and circumstance more than merit right okay maybe yeah and that's and both yeah but the there is somebody else that deserves to there are lots of other people that deserve to be sat here talking to you more than i do well i'm not asking you my co-host it's one episode no i know i get that and is there anything that anybody that you're opposite against where it wasn't also so much luck and circumstance including a ricky gervais or anybody like that it's all that it's all luck and circumstance and then once you get that luck in the circumstance and if it times out are you at least good enough to kind of jump on that train as slow or as fast as it might be moving i think that is true but but i also think that if you've got imposter syndrome you're more inclined to listen to that part of your listen to that part but that but that part exists yes of course it's luck and circumstance yeah why is that a bad like that's all yeah yeah if you won the lottery and you have millions and millions of dollars which one could argue that you have won the lottery and you have millions and millions of pounds is i was trying to remember what the money is is quid good is uh uh like yeah you got well i don't know i should maybe not keep this money no yeah i know i get what you're saying but yes look what you're saying logically makes sense you're a lucky bastard yeah yeah why does that make you feel saying that online it doesn't make me feel afraid no fake i said yeah uh why does it make me feel fake um and you please by the way i'm interrupting as much as i i do yeah but take you could take like 20 seconds and think about that i don't know if i've ever asked somebody this question because who you are includes the luck and circumstance sure yeah but if then you've i just feel like you feel like a bit of a imposter okay so imposter syndrome in relation to like i don't know putting yourself through going to work if you feel terrible i'm so lucky to be here you know i'm trying to compare it to say the melbourne you're the australian australia shows whatever i'm so lucky to be here so i need to be i need to be super grateful for the you know what i mean i need to be super grateful yep versus i deserve this so if i choose not to if i choose to to not do this it doesn't matter because i deserve this will come to me again you know i can do as much as i like because i'm i'm fucking great so it sounds like what you're saying is if you the opposite of imposter syndrome is entitlement yes i'm not i think so but it's but there's a line in the opposite of imposter syndrome is not having imposter syndrome correct yeah yes i know what you're saying but but but i understand there's a logical disconnect but that's the feeling you know that that's where i relate to you i have things where logically and emotionally if they disconnect yeah i think we talked about in yours then like which one's stronger and that's what i lean toward yeah but when they connect it's like you understand your feelings and that's great so logically i don't understand imposter syndrome that emotionally i can't it's like whatever i'm in melbourne they're at the show i want to perform i'm grateful yes it totally makes sense why you would do the show yeah i wouldn't be like you absolutely should not i mean it's case by case who knows kobe bryant said that about that about like you know even if he's not feeling well he wants to show up and play for the one person that maybe is finally the kid that gets to see him yes yeah but if he can't play then he won't yeah yeah so like that's a judgment call i don't see how that relates to like i'm not worthy or or like good enough for this because you're not going on stage saying that you're the best player in the nba and that's why you're up on the stage no no but but but you can you can feel like you're not worthy of this and still do all the stuff you're supposed to do is what is not not worthy of what you're not worthy of this and still do all the stuff you're supposed to do is not worthy of what like this getting lucky and people liking you yeah you're not worthy of that but am i i don't know yes you are who yeah i don't know anybody look i don't know who anybody who is okay that's the truth i don't know anybody who is who's who's worthy of being in their life yeah and letting it go in the way that when it's positive they allow it to be that way what are you talking about is that because you're damaged maybe maybe but no i it's not changing the way i act it's just like a little thing in my yeah i just think that i think that like the closest i could relate to that is when i'm on stage which you said if i saw you which i don't think it would necessarily be the case but like when i know that there are people who are seeing me do stand-up and they've never seen me do stand-up and they already like me yeah and know me that's the closest i could get to being like oh no am i but it's not because it's imposter just because i'm not great at this yet yeah yeah you know and i want to be but how do you feel about doing this podcasting yeah i mean let me start by saying here's some of the things i don't like okay i don't like being on an episode every week giving the audience who i am also so grateful that you want to watch so much access to me in my life okay if i were making enough money and friends with people and being able to collaborate in different ways i don't know if i would do this as much as i do okay sometimes i'm tired and i don't want to do it when i'm tired i don't want to do it a lot of the times afterwards i'm like it doesn't bother me because i'm like yeah but i know i'm gonna have a good time it's fine yeah those are the negatives it's work what i like about this is i get to make friends i have a social life now once a week i hang out with somebody i wouldn't do that i'm very to myself uh it begets making friends with other people um uh i meet people that i then become friends with and i'm fans with i learn from uh on one hand i'm surprised that people want to watch this like i am i i'm always surprised people want to watch this and i see that they are and that's awesome yeah i'm not like you shouldn't be watching this but i'm also not like how come more people aren't yeah you know what i mean so like i'm so i got so lucky that for whatever reason i started soon enough to where people saw it and enough people would continue to watch it that i have friends that are so funny that i still i this is you coming on my podcast is a favor you know you said it to ricky in a way where which by the way i never watched the episode and then i did after ours i saw tons of clips and i like them yeah i've seen episodes i never watched that one he said uh he said you know like he's doing this and he has to promote stuff and he doesn't want to have to promote but like it's what you do and he does a few things and you're like yeah this is a bigger favor that you're doing for me than i am for you and he's like of course it is um i feel like sometimes i feel like this is a bigger favor but everybody that comes on my podcast i'm not paying you yeah it's always a favor uh i don't feel like i don't deserve it you know what i mean yeah if you don't want to come on i totally understand if you do yeah great why wouldn't you does that kind of i get it what do you connect with what don't you it feels incredibly healthy for you to that feels like a really healthy way of looking at it how do you look at it similar to be honest with you i feel like on an everyday thing but when when also i want to say one thing just to connect to because we are putting this out there yeah what i'm saying i have a strong opinion toward and it's not specific to being a comedian or podcasting i think of this as in social interactions and the difference between obligation for uh on things i have to do because you're supposed to or i said i would versus obligation of what it means to be a friend and to show up for somebody and like doing things that are inconvenient because that cost is cheaper than what you get from it yeah and like there are times like i don't want to do this but it's worth it yeah versus i don't want to do this because it's not yeah and i just want to like if anybody anyway i just want to say that so it's not specifically about podcasting yeah you were upset that you're going to alienate the oh i like to frame things in a way because like sometimes people won't say they want a glass of water so i'd like to i love to offer context to things where people like oh yeah i get that kind of yeah what did you think about me not asking for a glass of water i didn't think much of it uh but if i were to zoom into my my my subconscious like i said either you didn't realize you wanted one and i brought up the idea and then you did or you felt like you didn't want to ask for something or it wasn't that big of a deal yeah you would love it if i offered it but you don't want to ask it was that one yeah yeah i think that is a weak character trait really why i don't want to disrupt the podcast i'm being polite why because i want it to go because i want it to go well for you Do you think asking for a glass of water will make a worse product? I don't know. So then why are you choosing that it would? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, you didn't ask yourself the question, should I stay home and not do this Melbourne show or should I do the Melbourne show? And you said, if I asked myself that question and I ended up doing the show just as I did, I would feel better because at least I asked myself that question. Yeah. What I'm saying is, and as I'm learning, and I'm still learning, people do not ask. That's why I said people don't even know what they want. So why am I going to feel so obliged to make sure I host you and give you everything you want when you have some say in this? Yeah. Now, if I'm like, there's no water, I'd be like, what the fuck? And yes, it would be nice for me to ask. I didn't think of it. And had I, it would have been nice if I did. I didn't. But I don't feel so much pressure to do that. And you're saying, I want the show to go well. I didn't want to ask for a glass of water. That same logic as the host. I could have said, I want the show to go well. I better offer him a glass of water. I don't feel that I have that much control over things. Ask for what you want. Yeah, it makes sense. You know, and if you want to sit down and go back to the tripod, it's not that big of a deal. I don't think you should. I would prefer if you didn't. But if you would prefer to sit down more than I would. Yeah. Before the opposite, then whatever. Yeah. The product will be fine. Yeah, but don't sit down. I'm really liking what you're doing right now. But as time goes on. Maybe you want to, but don't. Do you want something to drink? Oh, no. I was. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. I was offering point of view. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So people would then think it was on your head. That's distracting. Sorry about that. Thank you so much. But couldn't put a little magnifying glass on that idea of like, why didn't you ask for the glass of water? And why you thought it would disrupt? Because by the way, had you asked for the glass of water, that would have happened. And we would not be having a longer conversation that's disrupting the other stuff. Yeah, sure. And you wouldn't have told me that it's a weak character trait. It's a weak. It's a weakness. Yeah, yeah. And you know. You, at least in this moment, were unable to provide yourself the safety and the needs that you had based on fear of something going wrong that you were just writing. I don't think it's a fear. You're a f***. Well, I don't think it's a fear of something going wrong. If I might bat that back to you. That doesn't feel good. No. I'm sorry the way I just behaved. Yeah. I thought the way you just behaved was, you know, we were getting into this because it was an interesting to get into. And then you're getting all, did you call me a f***ing loser? No. Okay. So I think. I didn't want the water that much. Lying is okay if we both know that everybody knows that we're lying. It's just, it's a silent acknowledgement, you know? Also bleep what I said f***ing loser before. I just didn't think, I didn't need the water that much. Correct. We only ask for what we want if we really need it. Yeah. Weak character trait. That's not a weak character trait. That's like, that's not, I'm being nice. I don't really, I'm being playfully judgmental. I know, I know. I think that it's a value add to be able to ask for things that you want. And somebody could argue the other way. I get that. I'm a complainer. Some people say don't complain. Yeah. So it's just, that's just my take on stuff. So no, I don't really think that. No. What do you think? Do you think I've got, that was a weak character trait? You do. Okay, cool. This guy's been so, I'm really surprised that was his answer. I'm really surprised. This guy has a name and it's Philippe. Is it your name Philippe? Philippe. Philippe. So that's really backfired on you, isn't it? I don't think so. My name's Richard. People call me Rick. Yeah, but he, that's not, he's not, has he asked you to call him Philippe? Yes. Okay, no. Do you know what? Touché. Well done. This shit, man. Yeah. Laughing with people. Yeah. It's the best. That's another reason why I feel grateful and I like this job. It's not just going out there and it's not just about making other people laugh. It's being around people that make me laugh. Yeah. And like, or like you laughing at that. I thought that was funny. Yeah. And you didn't laugh. I probably wouldn't have laughed. Right. Not because I'm holding it in. You laughing made it funnier. Yeah. So you laughing made me laugh and it feeds. And it's like another, like maybe connecting to the imposter syndrome at all. Like what do you, I want, I want this. Do I deserve? I don't, I, I, I, do I deserve? I mean, deserving is such an interesting thing because depending on the context, deserve could feel like entitlement. And it's like, or like if I deserve it, it means that the other person doesn't. We all deserve to be happy and to connect to people. I think, I mean, there's maybe there's some cases where there's people that have some traumas and some mental disabilities where they're just evil. But like for the most part, we all, so like I, I, I, I was lucky enough to get on the train. That's not moving that fast, but it's moving forward. And I'm like looking out the windows and I'm not like, I shouldn't be here. I'm like, you know, like. Yeah, no, I get that. I get that. And you know what? I'm sorry. Can I get a glass of water? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I asked. I, I, I'm staying in a very nice hotel. I talked about this on the podcast before. I stay in hotels as if I'm making money of people who are way making, I'm losing money on this tour. I have sold out pretty much every show I've done in four countries and I'm losing money on this show. That makes sense based on where you're staying. Last night, Lewis Capaldi was at the show. I don't know if you know who that is. Yes, I do. I've been a fan of his for years and we've become friends online and I've never met him. And he was at the show and afterwards we met up when he was with some of his mates. We went to my hotel. There's this rooftop. It's open 24 seven full service menu bar. You and Lewis went back to your hotel? And some of his friends. Okay. Yeah. To this rooftop. We're like, where I was on the rooftop, I'm like, I want to be here with friends and it's beautiful. And server is up there and there's a full menu and they're having some beers and I wanted pasta, but they didn't have this on the menu. It's a nice hotel, so it's different, but I'll ask anywhere. I said, can I get some beef bolognese? Yes. No cheese. Yes. Also, is it okay if they do garlic? Absolutely. Fishwaters, I get at the hotel. They basically, they're begging you to take them. They're free. They just give them to you. When you order at the restaurant, they charge you six pounds for them. I said, I have a question that's a little tacky. If I got this, will you guys charge me? Or if not, can I have it from my room? I'll just go back to my room to get it. And he goes, yeah, we charge. And I left my key in the room. He helped me open the door so I could go get the water. And then I'm like, I know I'm asking for a lot, but I can't get some vegetable, like peas, green beans, whatever. Like, I'm asking for so much stuff. A lot of people will be like, that's so annoying. Most people will be like, that's so annoying. I feel like I've developed a way of asking for stuff where I'm being playful and I'm nice. I'm a great tipper, okay? But like, I want this. Let me ask for it. Have you always been on that? I've always been like that. I've always asked for what I wanted. And when people say I can't do that or I don't want to do that, I'll either be like, totally understand. That's fine. - And do you totally understand? - If I totally understand, if they said, the chef that makes that is in here, I'd be like, will you make it for me? No, I'd be like, yeah, oh, that makes sense. If they say something like, I'm not sure if we have peas, I'm not going to be like, don't worry about it. I'll be like, will you ask? And if they don't, it's fine. But will you ask? Like, if I understand, I understand. If I don't, I'll ask questions. - What if they'd said to you, yeah, we did charge you for the water. And the policy is, you're not allowed to bring the bottles from your room here. - Totally. Totally fine. - And you say you pay six pounds and not a problem. - If that's the policy, I'll say, totally fine. And then that's it. If I think that's ridiculous, which I would, I would probably just go and get my water. And if they ended up charging me or something, it is what it is. But like, I'm just like, you're not allowed to, you know, pee in this bathroom. It's for employees only. Okay. But if no one's around, I'm like, I'm going to go pee in the bathroom. - Yeah. Well, I guess what I'm asking is, would you lose your shit? I guess is what I'm asking. - I do not feel entitled to them making me the bolognese. - Right. - I'm going to try and get it. - Okay. That's the nature of the inquiry, right? It's not like, get me bolognese. - It's, it's, he put down the frosted glasses and beer and he asked, he's like, would you like me to pour it for you? And he goes, no, I'm just going to drink it from the bottle. And I said, I said, Eric, can I ask you something? He said, yes. I said, off the record, we're all cool here. Or you could tell me the truth. If he said, yes, will you pour it for me? Would you think that's a little odd? - Yeah. - And he said, cause I think it would be. He goes, no, I think some people like that. And I like to be able to offer that. I'm like, oh, that makes sense. I'm not that way. Oh, so like, this is a service business. This is you being able to offer value to people. That makes sense. I would judge a person who said pour it, but maybe they could explain to me a reason why. I don't know. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - So like, I don't want to put, like, if this is something you don't want to do, don't do it. But like, if you're, if you're like anything you'd like, or what could I get you? If you say, what could I get you? Yeah. Here's what you can get me. Right. You know, like, but no, Hey, I, or if they, if, if I noticed something where they were like, I would be like, I'm at, I don't want to put you on the spot that, that I've annoyed you. I don't want it. Cause you're not going to say that to me anyway. I'm just noticing. I am asking for a lot. I am sorry. If you've already put that in wonderful. If not, I just, the bolognese is fine. I'm so sorry. I'm a big advocate for asking for things. I'm also a big advocate for being able to set boundaries and saying, I don't want to do that. I think it's, that's so good, man. To not be ashamed. I think all you're talking about, well, being, not being ashamed of it. It's great. Asking is great. Being honest is great. Like all of that. You know, I think when you came on my podcast, I was talking to you about like, I was talking about the way that you interview people, the way that you talk to people and, and you pin people down. And, you know, we were talking about that a little bit. And I know you talked about new neurodivergence, but I think that when we talked on my podcast, you were talking a lot about the disadvantage that, you know, you talked about the email that you got, you know, where you're talking about, I am phenomenal, you know, the, the, about how you deal with people. I got somebody of a basketball game. I was in that. They said, Hey, uh, some of the guys don't like playing with you. I think you need to step back. Yeah. And you were talking about, you know, how that's affected life. But I, I don't know how you've come to behave, you know, to do those things that you've just talked about, but those are fucking great qualities. I mean, it's really good that you're like that. You know, like that is what you're describing is stuff that people struggle their whole lives with, you know, asking for what they want, you know, and being honest about that. It's really, and often what the potential repercussions of that are imagined. They're not, you know, and, but despite that, and despite, you know, even when like you were saying to me, you know, when you were talking to me about imposter syndrome, as you were saying to me, I go, yeah, this doesn't make logical sense, right? You know, I can feel it. It's the same thing when you're talking about what is wrong with asking for what you want at that hotel? There is nothing. But that's not a, that as a rhetorical question doesn't offer as much character growth, I think, as actually asking it. Like you saying, if I asked, should I go on stage? Should I not? And figuring out, ask the, ask the question. I don't want to answer that big of a deal. No, no. Ask yourself why, why not? Yeah. Yeah. What's the answer? And whatever that answer is, and there might be one, ask another question. Yeah. But then like, say for you, say, say you, when you ask somebody to come into your podcast, right? And it's somebody, obviously it's somebody you respect or somebody you like, they ignore you. And then you ask again. Well, okay. Let's take the other example, you telling somebody, I don't want, I don't want you to come on their podcast. I don't, I like the example that you just said, 'cause I think I know where you're going and I have a specific example. Well, well, 'cause I'm trying to think about the risk you potentially run behaving the way that you do, right? Yes, yes. And there is one. Yeah, and that is that you might look like a, do you know what I mean? Like you just look a bit thirst, you look like a, somebody you respect and somebody you really admire. Might see me in a way that I don't like, I don't want to be seen. Sees you as a pest, right? Yes. That is a, that's a potential cost of what you're talking about. Yes. Magic Miner's really kicked in. I want to talk, I love this talk. I love talking about stuff 'cause this is, I think about this stuff all the time. I'm always, I'm asking these questions all the time. And I do think I've gotten very good at it. Okay. If you would see me as a pest, if I do something, and I agree with that, I could see me as a pest too. I would have to reframe the way I present myself. Not asking, asking differently, acknowledging it, whatever it might be. I'm not saying whatever you want, you deserve and ask for and go. It's just, you ask your questions and like, yeah, that's fine. If I don't think it's fine, I wouldn't ask. But why don't I think it's fine? Fine, you know, like why is it not okay to ask what kind of pasta I want? I can't figure out a reason other than a made up narrative that I would write. Yeah. So when there are those times, asking somebody to come on my podcast, not wanting to annoy them. Also not wanting to like, I could probably only ask three times. So I want to put a little distance in case they're too busy right now. Maybe they're working on something. You know, whatever the logic is, but the craft is checking in. No, I'm asking because I want to know. And if they don't want to do it, what's coming to mind is Glenn Howerton. Do you know who that is? - Yes. - He's came on my podcast and he said something to me that felt really good in this. Where I'm like, oh, I love that you saw it that way. I almost want to pull up the text. Maybe I'll put it up. It was swiped to a clip of it. - I noted when you and I had our first text exchange, when you were texting me about coming on and doing the show, there was a point at which you had texted me and I didn't text you back for like quite some time. And I'd love to read the actual text, but you're like, because I'm not good at reading into things or something, or like, I don't want to have to try and interpret your silence. - There's also for context to that, this wasn't like, Hey, I got your number and I'm asking you on. And then like, you're like not answering me. You said yes already. So once that happens, I'm like, okay, it's on. So I wrote, don't want to bug you, but I do want to follow up unless you aren't interested anymore. If that's the case, I will understand and stop with the followups. But I would ask you to tell me directly, please, because I'm not good at taking the hints. - I loved it. Rick, I was like, this guy just gained the utmost, respect in my book. - I'm feeling very emotional right now. - Are you actually? - I get shit for it sometimes. - No, no, no. I actually, I find that incredibly, incredibly refreshing. I think most people would take it personally, which is understandable and would go and would just like infer, they would either be aggressively angry about it and be like, hey man, fuck you, dude. What the fuck? Why aren't you answering? Or whatever. Less so though, or more often, it would just be like, I guess this guy just doesn't want to do it. He doesn't want to talk to me. - Which might be the case. - Which could be the case. - But I don't know. - But you don't know. And so you, but I love that you texted me that and just asked me straight up, just let me know. Just tell me, I'm cool either way. Just tell me, don't just not tell me. - Somebody once said to me, my friend Tal Welkenfeld, she's a musician. - Fantastic. And I don't remember the context, but she said she doesn't like to ask people to do stuff. I don't remember exactly what it was, but like, I'm like, oh, I get that. I adopted that in a way. I'll still ask. But a lot of times what I realized is like, asking somebody to do something might put them in a position to say no. - Yeah. - No, I'm fine with that. But I recognize you might not be. - It's a burden, right? - So instead of asking somebody to do something, I sometimes, in a very similar way, I let them know I would love to have you. Which doesn't mean they have to say no, but I'm just opening the door that they didn't realize was unlocked. - Yeah. - Asking for the water, asking for the pasta is validating when you do it, and worst case scenario, you don't get the pasta. So like, it's not scary to ask for it. - Yeah. - Now, again, there's craft, and there's recognizing boundaries, and there's not being rude, and there's entitlement, and there's like, hey, this is this person's event. Let's not take too much shine from it. Like there's, you still have to be self-aware. It's not like I ask for whatever I want. I ask myself, why not? And I might not know a reason, and then something happens, and I find out. And that's why, like in conversations, if somebody is upset with me, we talked about this on yours, and they're like, hey, Rick, I didn't like that. - Yeah. - As much as that might not feel good, I'm so glad it happened. Wait, what did I say that made you, like, what happened? 'Cause now I have a new tool. I didn't realize that bringing up somebody's ethnicity might be, like, I don't know. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - 'Cause I wouldn't care. So like, as you learn, people, then you get, your craft gets better. - Yeah. - By the way, if this is an uncomfortable question, we could edit this out. Is it okay if I bring up blah, blah, blah? You could then be like, I don't really wanna talk about it. Great, let's edit this out. You're not in your head anymore. We could keep going. If I didn't offer that, you would either, hey, I don't really, and you'd be uncomfortable, or you would say it, you'd be in your head. At the end of the episode, you'd be like, hey, could we cut that out? You weren't present anymore. I wasn't picking up on it. - I'm now thinking about that the whole, for the whole rest of our chat, right? - So I now, the craft is checking in with something that you might not like before you don't like it, which I'll only know if I, if somebody else told me they didn't like it. It would be- - But, all of that makes logical sense, except for the fact, so in fact, it all makes logical sense. Asking the question is unpleasant, right? - No. - It could be unpleasant. And what I'm saying is, it could be unpleasant to be thirsty. - Yeah, yes, but I feel like, so say for example, when you came on mine, and I was gonna ask you something that I thought you might get upset, you know, that you might not be all right about, I would, the difference, I think the difference we're talking about is, and as you explain it, I get why everything you said makes perfect sense. Asking the question, I would find a moment of, I would feel anxious about that, right? - But that's great, that's intuitive. That's not wrong. Not asking the question because you're feeling that could be, because I think it's not giving, it's not respecting the person opposite you and giving them the benefit of the doubt that they can handle it. - Yeah. Yeah. Okay. As you say, the way you describe it, I just go, okay, of course, but I'm not where, you know, I don't have that in the same way that you do. And a lot of people don't. And a lot of people who aren't present, a lot of people who, you know, a lot of my act is talking about when you meet people, the certain things that you have to do to make sure they think you're a good person, which I find manipulative because once you've done that long enough and you've pretended to be somebody that you're not eventually, oh, they're grandfathered and they could say these things. I have a difficult time calculating. When could I show up authentically versus when am I supposed to set the stage to allow myself to show up authentically later on? And it's difficult and everyone is different. Some people will receive direct communication as confrontation. Some people will receive confrontation as bad. I don't. And I don't because I think it's valuable because in confrontation, I'm seeing you. Yeah. Right. So for a moment, we get to stop playing this game and we get to be like, I just didn't like this. I'm feeling embarrassed. Yeah. And like that creates a shorthand that to me offers so much more value. Then not feeling that discomfort, which I feel I, that's not like I'm not uncomfortable in it. I just, it's worth it. I'm not saying I hope we get into a fight and I don't even think a confrontation is necessarily a fight, but like there's so much value to finally being seen and for somebody to allow themselves to be seen that I'm not going to shy away from that. Because if you ask for a glass of water and I was like, what? I can't imagine. I can't imagine what I could feel that would be upset. I can't. What, in what world were you asked for a glass of water where I'm like, yeah, fine. Like what story are these people writing? Yeah, I know. They're so scared. Yeah, I get that. I get that. But, but okay. But if, if, say, for example, I said to you, if I said to you, Rick, I'm going to be honest with you, that last little, little thing you did there, I found that quite offensive. I don't want it to go in. Now I just, I'm a bit, I'll be honest with you, it slightly pissed me off that you said that. If I said that to you. Let's do it. Well, say something, even if it didn't really piss you off, say something. Let's try this. Okay, fine. Listen, you know, the whole thing where you sort of, you sort of made it like I didn't really recognize Felipe's name and all of that. And you made me look like a bit of a dick there. Like I don't respect the guy, this guy. I just, I don't really, I would love it if that wasn't, to be honest with you, I, I, I'm not that type of guy. And I sort of didn't like the fact that you made me look that type of guy. I'm sorry. And that's kind of what I've been thinking about since. I'm so glad that you told me. I'm sorry. First, if you want me to cut out, I absolutely will. But if we keep this in, we get to acknowledge this. I want to say something that, let me just say this first. They never met. Like you walked in, uh, you guys didn't exchange names. You never met anything. We got here. I was a, we went late. We went right in. We sat down. My intention was 100% to be playful. I was just like throwing you under the bus for the sake of doing that. Uh, I am sorry. And if you want me to cut it out, I will. But like, I think this is interesting conversation. I also love that you brought that up, but I am, I am sorry. Okay. So obviously I, I was just saying that for the example, but my, my question is, my question is if that was real, would you, after we finished doing this podcast and you go off into your day, would that, that that's never coming back? Of course that's in my head. Okay. Yeah. So, so that there is a cost to that cost to what the intro say, say what I mean? It's in my head because it matters. Okay. But what I'm saying is, is there part of you that's going fuck man, like Romesh and I've been really getting on and then I, that was a bit shit. Yes. And that's a shame that, you know, like, so that does happen. Yes. Okay. Now, if you felt that way and you didn't bring it up, that is still exists and I'm not privy to it. Sure. I would, I would rather you not have felt that way. If you do, I would prefer to know about it. So I could either have a conversation cause I don't understand and realize, Oh, we see things differently. That's okay. We think things differently. That's not okay. However that leads, but that makes total sense. That made up example makes sense. It makes so much sense that that's, that's the structure of the joke I made. I mean, I was doing that on purpose. Yeah. Playfully. But, and then I would leave and I'd, and then I would, depending how it goes, I would still probably message you about it later. Yeah. And I would be, I would be, um, I don't know if hurts the right word, but some version of something, there's an arrow there. Right. And the reason I'm feeling negative is because that mattered and there's something to learn from that. Yeah. You know, it makes sense. It makes sense. Tell me, tell me if you're upset. Tell me, tell me what upset you. That's why I really think complaining is a love language. It's not a weakness. But then, but then part of me is thinking like, and I dunno if we're getting too into the weeds with this, but yes, and I love this, but, but part of me is thinking it. And just to be clear, I, I, I was not upset at all, but like part, if that, if that had really upset me, part of me is thinking Rick came on my podcast. This is what's going through my head. Rick came on my podcast and it was great. We had a great time. I'm having a great time here. And now do I say something where essentially I take a little shit in the middle of that. Right. And we're going to have to work our way through that. How much do I want to bring it up? Because how much do I want us to just have a smooth, this is still early, you know, in our, in our knowing each other, you know what I mean? I'm going through that. What you're presenting is asking yourself a question. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not saying you should bring it up. Right. I'm saying it's not that don't decide that you shouldn't. How much do I want to, maybe you don't. And then, then we start getting into more serious conversation. Like, Hey, there's something I was thinking about. I wasn't sure I want to bring up, but I kind of want to talk about it now. Like you don't have to say it right now. You don't have to say we don't owe everybody our truths. I'm not saying tell me everything you're thinking. I don't deserve that. Yeah. I'm not entitled to that. At least sure. Say it if you want to say it, but don't not say it because you're afraid. What if you do, you know, and also by the way, Felipe, if, if, is this, I'm sorry if making these jokes left you feeling anything negative. Would you like a glass of water? I'm all right. Okay. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. That was so lovely, man. Really nice. That's kind of like when you, like when you, you, you, uh, sometimes there's, uh, you know, uh, ensemble comedy shows, multiple people go up and then you and we both went on stage and you and I are talking and somebody comes up to you and says, Oh, I was so, you were so funny. You were so funny too, to me. I'm like, I think that I think that's ruder. Do you think so? It's so interesting. I think it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I'm saying it's such a silly thing, but when somebody says you're so funny too, that's fine. And they might mean it, um, to me and my, my analytical brain, if I were to walk up to two people that were funny, I'd be like, you guys were so fucking funny. Uh, and then blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But like, if I were to say to you first and then do you, my hypothesis would almost always be, they realize they needed to do something. Yeah. Not that I want them to think I'm need them to say I'm funny or I'm not, I'm not looking at what they're saying. I'm looking at what they feel obligated at. And that just is dishonest. Or, or, or there's a value. Even if they didn't think you were funny. So the thing is, I think this person was funny. I'm going to say, Oh shit. I've not said it to Rick. I'm now going to say it to them. You see that as dishonest, but there is an argument that like, they didn't find your set funny that night. And they want to be polite to you because they like you. There's value in that, right? I agree. I understand it. Right. Sometimes being dishonest that's my, my whole, my, the whole through line of what I'm trying to do with my act is, is, is calculating when is showing up authentically worth it. How much does it cost you socially? Yeah. And there are some times where it's just like, it's fine. Just I'm good things. How are you? You just say it. That's fine. I get that. I'm not mad at the person, but I'm not taking the compliment. Sure. That means nothing to you. Well, what I'm now seeing a person that is trying to be nice. What a lovely thing to do. I'm not, you know, I don't, I'm not encouraging in such a bad way, but like me, I could handle you not thinking I'm funny tonight. And I don't think this person knows that. And it's, it's, I'm constantly calculating that stuff. So that's why I love talking about this. It's on my mind a lot. That's why I think I've gotten really good at it. In some ways I'm exhausted in almost every social interaction. Fuck. But what you're talking about, I mean, anyway, the point is, or one of the points is I think where you're at with a lot of what you're talking about is amazing. Do you think you could adopt any of it? I'm going to say that I'm telling you this now, this conversation is making me think about like, it's, it's making me reflect on, I will probably think differently going forward. I think, I think that, I think that's really interesting. And I think the idea that you're not giving the other person enough credit to handle what it is you're saying is a really interesting thing that I always assume. I think I personally always assume you've got to tread on eggshells. everywhere, right? And so the idea that you might say, yeah i mean yeah like like this person's so weak i better i better be careful around them yeah or you you assume the default assumption is they can't handle anything and then if later on they show i think that's a subconscious thing too right yeah like you're making you're really thinking like i don't want to be i don't want to come across yeah i'm trying my my my i want to have a positive impact wherever you know that i want to have a positive impact which is wonderful by the way that's not a negative trait and i think so many of us have that and then you go is there a possibility that me saying this thing is going in the is going in the negative you know i mean you assume that that's a situation and to be fair yes yeah there is a possibility yeah i just think that the best versions we could be is just showing up as we are yeah and then if there's things we don't like about it we try and change them yeah and if there's things about us that are blind spots what a gift it is for somebody to tell us they didn't like something whoa i don't like that either i now have the opportunity to change that yeah or well i kind of like this thing about me i don't have to change yeah but without somebody showing you your blind spots you're never going to see them so i i think when people there's i think there's so much value in confrontation and because of that i'm not afraid of it as much yeah you know what i mean i think that's amazing man so there's no social chameleon in you then is that what you're saying i'm a human being i you know they're like like that's why like i'm like oh yeah cool cool cool cool cool like like i know like sometimes you just like you know like yes i do it sometimes and it drains me so much as a social chameleon when you do it how are you are you do you feel like i just did like i just went in there and i just made people believe something that wasn't like what's the positive just that i'm not trying to make anybody believe anything and uh you know like my natural thing is to not be that but you know it's to not be that even though i do stand-up comedy i'm not walking into a room and i i'm very i'm not the center of you know i don't really like that right very british very british yeah but but i've had to get used to the fact that i'm coming quite low energy do you know i mean into rooms or whatever and then i you know in comedy there's lots of people that come into a room and they're just like you know it's like everybody's looking at them and i you're saying a performer going on i'm talking about like say i don't know you're doing a you're doing you're you're working on a on a sitcom or something and you arrive on set and you're like hey man how's it going and then somebody else one of the other cast arrives on set and they're like you know like and everybody's like holy shit like tom's here do you know what i mean like that uh i've had to like just accept that is just you know you just go that's just how i that is just how i am and maybe i'll end up talking to these people more and they'll get to know me and they'll like me or they won't and that's also fine do you know what i mean it's like there are times where i i walk on the sitcom and i see somebody like you yeah and i'm reminded rick relax i'm the other way i i like i i have actually become a less annoying person because of seeing that right right right right it's funny that you're like oh i would love to be able to be this way yeah yeah like i like i sometimes will go into a new place and i know i'll be able to have i'll be able to play around so i'll just like not you know like i'm waiting for somebody to open the deck of cards before i start shuffling sure sure but but i i don't think i ever go into a thing thinking uh i'm gonna you know i want these people to but what i will do is go i might not ask for something that i want yeah because i just think it's just fucking it's just easier to not right do you know i mean like how big a deal is this yeah you're you're probably and to your credit you're probably easier to be around than me you know what i mean i'm not saying this is the this is the religion yeah yeah this is our religion but but i i think that what the stuff you said i i've never thought about it in terms of the potential benefits i mean in in that way in that explicit way as you've just put across is like if i say to you rick i don't like it when you when you target this about me right that's an uncomfortable conversation but then you're never going to do that again and that at least the choice of the choice yeah yeah exactly but we know we now know what you know what the that interaction means right that's an amazing payoff i might not do that because i don't want to have that initial conversation i'm telling you that you get used to it i i i really think that the the the idea of discomfort has really bad pr yeah it's like it's okay we avoid discomfort because we think we want to be comfortable yeah but avoiding that discomfort doesn't allow us to be comfortable now you're thirsty yeah yeah i think a great a great um analogy would be if you're getting a massage and it feels good it's fine but like you want it a little harder but you don't want to like ask for it it's fine if you ask a little bit harder they'll go hard it's fine i know i know um but yeah an example that i've been you know what's that i've been guilty of that and massages yeah you know why i understand this because i actually feel that way i'm like i don't want to and i've noticed that i feel that way even though logically it makes sense some places so now when i go into a place uh before massage and i love massages i say i like it really hard just want to let you know that now there are some places where i feel like like i might ask you a softer but like let's start hard i don't want to let you know that now there are some places where that way we're starting that way and for whatever reason i realized it's easier to ask someone softer than harder and here's my why i think when you ask somebody softer it's like oh i'm weak you're so strong when you ask somebody harder i'm making them work harder right i would love to be able to run a little bit slower yeah you know so like setting so i've i've learned oh i don't like this feeling of discomfort why not it's because i'm making i feel like maybe i'm making somebody work harder let me just say it when it's not uncomfortable yeah i'm in this magic mind do you feel it at all yeah i think it's a good idea i think it's a good idea i think it's a good idea i think i do do you drink a lot of caffeine yeah yeah i don't drink anything so it might be more subtle for you okay i i really would like to regularly i would love it if that was available in the uk i'll find out but you know what i i could find out actually you know it's incredible i i i'm i'm pretty sure it's available all over the world okay i know they ship to australia yeah so like here's an example of something that you just did that uh if i were drinking from that said yeah i realized that yeah yeah but you got a bottle there i'm saying if we were sharing that yeah i would be like that's fine because i saw where you did it and it wouldn't be coming from that spout if you did it again i would have lost track so i probably wouldn't have said anything right away i would have noticed it if you did it again um i would want a different one and my calculation would be how much either you don't need water you want water it's fine it's not that it's fine it's it's it's you know getting antibodies it's not that big of a deal i want a water i don't want to make him feel like he's gross like i would it's not like i don't care there's obviously a race dynamic there do you know what i mean it's like oh i wouldn't even think about that you'd have to say i also do this with white guys yes i wouldn't even thought of that because i don't think there's a race thing because of all those now all the people from sri lanka that are making the street food is that what you're talking about because i see those things and like people are dirty everywhere yeah so yeah but i wouldn't even thought of a racing i thought you were white until you know i saw what you look like right but i would still have to calculate these things yeah and be like if earlier i noticed that you got like you were a little upset about certain things or like your feelings got hurt easily i would probably not ask for a new pitcher of water really yeah so like i'm not saying i don't care okay so you know okay so you do have i'm saying i'm always calculating it and then like when you realize oh it's worth it then then you got your answer yeah yeah you know what i'm saying and i do it very quickly now i want what i don't think you're a dirty person i have ocd you put in the stuff it's totally fine i get it i'm gonna ask for another water and i just want to say like i don't think you're gross because you're from sri lanka or whatever great i did it now if your feelings are hurt that's your shit to carry you know what i mean you put such a burden on them you messaged me you're like how was that episode uh is it i'm being serious could i bring this up yeah yeah yeah he said how was that episode i sometimes get a little unsure or whatever yeah and i'm like i don't you know like i talk too much and i don't know if it was interesting yeah and i had such a great time with you yeah and you're great at this i don't know you know what i don't know i'm thirsty yeah you know i'm so glad that i don't care about i'm so glad that i'm not as concerned with how other people feel once i realized i feel like i have i've done it i did everything nice yeah you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah if you ever do something or even think about something in real life on a podcast on a show in just in social situations where you're like oh i'm gonna try this different because of this conversation if you remember will you text me the example of what it is of course when people tell me that they've heard something i said and like they've adopted it that to me is like the coolest thing about this podcast for me it's it's it's actually kind of uh serendipitous because i'm in that phase of sort of looking at that sort of thing or thinking about that a little bit at this point in my life and but the way you explained it was like it was great i mean i think i will probably not probably I'm going to, I will try. That's like a development area for me as a result of this. There are, you know, when you have guests on, it's part of their audience kind of comes over. So there's gonna be a fair amount of people that have never seen my podcast that are watching because of you're on it. And I would like to acknowledge to them, I should maybe make this a cold open. I knew it would happen. I didn't, even though I didn't want to interview you, I have questions and I wanted to talk to you. I want to play with you. And we got into this thing that I love talking about. We didn't talk. I apologize. For what? This is my version of writing a story that I truly believe. I just, I talked to, I didn't give enough space. To me? I don't think so. I kept talking about, this is how I think. This is how I see things. That's not how I felt. Thank you. Genuinely. If you're ever in LA, please open door, come on my podcast. If I have one book, come on with that guest. If ever I'm here again, I would love to do this again. And I would love to do an episode with you where we get stoned. I've been doing more stoned episodes this year. And I, I love them. Okay. And I would love to do that with you. I'm up for that. We're friends now. We are friends now. Yeah. It's great, isn't it? Felipe? It's Filippo if it's a man, correct? Or Flipex if it doesn't matter. Is that what you prefer? Isn't it interesting to say what you prefer feels less condescending than what your people prefer? To refer to somebody and their people is like, what is it that you prefer? What is it that you prefer? What is it that you people like? It's like, already. You know? But really, that's a fair, like your culture. Like, what is it like your culture eats with your hands more, right? Yeah. I love to eat with my hands. And that's not polite in some cultures. In some cultures, that's what you do. But if I say you people eat with your hands, right? It's like, oh. Yeah. You people and your people is different, right? But even, let's say your people is nicer. Yeah. The your is nicer. Yeah. Your people. Yeah. It's not you people. It's like you. Your people still feels a little harsher than your culture. It does. Your people eat with your hands, don't they? Yeah. In your culture, in your culture, they, you eat with your hands, right? More frequently. Right. So that's more of a question than an observation. So let me try that again with people. Say the same thing with the same eyebrows. Okay. I mean, your people tend to eat with their hands more, don't they? Yeah. It sounds, you know, it sounds worse. Yeah. I think it's similar in like in the disability space. You're not supposed to say a disabled person. It's a person with this disability because they are a person first. I get that. Maybe it's something there, but we're saying you people, it's about, it's about a person, not the culture. Well, I used to be a teacher and one of the things they told us in teacher training is like, even if you're dealing with a really difficult student is, is to separate them from their behavior. It sounds cool, but their response to you will be so different. Give me an example. So if a kid is being really disruptive, if you say you're, you're disrupting my lesson or you're, you're ruining this lesson, right? Versus. Versus your behavior, what you're doing is ruining this lesson or your behavior. Then you can separate, they separate themselves from the thing. They could stop doing the thing as opposed to their identity. Yeah. And also you're not saying, I am not saying as a teacher, you're the problem. I'm saying you're great, but what you're doing is the problem. Great. I think that's part of it. I think that's kind of like the thinking about that every time you talk about something, you're addressing something like that is, is probably part of the thing. Yeah. I think like in therapy talk, that's why when we have an issue with somebody, instead of telling them what they did wrong, you tell them how you feel. Yeah. Like you're, you were mean to me. Well, what are you saying? When you said that, I, I, I felt embarrassed. Yeah. You don't want me to feel that way. It's way easier to say, oh, I'm sorry about that versus I'm not a bad guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that makes sense in that kind of talk, which is like one-on-one for the therapy type of thing, which is like so important. I know. I know. I didn't like when you said that because, oh, thank you for telling me when you, you say shit like that and it's, it is bad. Like, no, but then you start to, then you start to try and defend your intention versus the person's, how they received it. Yeah. Yeah. That was a, that was when I came into some self-awareness that started with getting kicked out of that basketball game. That was, I, I am this and I really believe this. They feel this way. I believe them. I don't think they're wrong and I don't think I'm wrong. So it's no, it's not like, no, I'm not. It's, oh, when I do something, people receive it differently. That was a huge awakening for me. And then you've got a decision to make, right? You can either go, well, I like being like this, so I'm going to continue being like this and I'm happy to accept the consequences of that or you go, I'm going to change how I am. Yeah. And, and if I like it, I like it. Yeah. I might like it and, liking this and realizing what this costs, it might make me not want it anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like, had I known how you received this, even though I would do it, if you received it well, I would love to keep doing this. But now that I know that you received it this way, it's not that I won't do it because you don't want it. I don't even want to do it anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It makes it so much easier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And calibrating to other people and reading a room, is imagine if everyone wore a name tag with their name on it. You would never worry I forgot their name. Yeah. And like, that's just an insecurity of mine. Like, if everybody said, hey, I'm having a bad day, I'm a little horny today or whatever the things are, I don't know. Like, it would be easier to read a room. So, knowing how somebody receives you isn't necessarily an indication of your character. It's, it's more so arguably an indication of theirs. Yeah. They're sensitive to this topic. They're having a bad time. They don't understand sarcasm. They're not wrong. They just have a different life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, but I would still, I still want everyone to like me. You know, like it doesn't go away. I'm not burdened by it. Right. Anyway, we're going in circles now and I'm starting to feel self-conscious about talking too much as I already, as I said. And I get excited and I love these talks. Yeah. And I feel they're validating. Yeah. No, it's great. It's been very useful. But you're on tour, huh? I guess I should. Should have done that earlier. Yeah. That time has passed. How about this? How about we end this with you saying it and then maybe I'll take that and I'll stick it in earlier in the episode with the commercials. Yeah, okay. So, yeah, I'm on tour from November. November. I'm on tour from November. Could you be a little bit more? Sure. What's up, everybody? Oh. Hey, man. What's going on? It's Romesh Ranganathan here and I'm on tour from November. Check it. You can go to romeshranganathan.com. I'm sure everyone knows how to spell that. But we'll put it in the description. Yeah, that's a big obstacle to my career. R-O-M-E-S-H-R-E-G-A-N-N-A-T-H-E-N? Yeah. Wrong. But you'll get it right in the caption, won't you? Yes. I'll Google it. Great. Yeah, absolutely. People know, people that watch my podcast know that almost every time when I put a link in, it's spelled right. Anyway. November, huh? Anything in the States? Hopefully, yeah. Late next year. Late next year? Yeah. So next November. Yeah. Where do you want to tour? Probably just, I'll come to LA. Should we get stoned when I come to LA? Yeah. Yeah, okay. What do you want to do? October 28, 27? Sure. Great. Yeah. Let me check. You play, what kind of venues do you play in when you go out on the road like that? Small. What's small? How big? Like, I think if I'm doing, like LA, I think I did the typewriter. Do you know that? Oh, Dynasty typewriter. Yeah, yeah. I did that. 180 people. Yeah. And then, but then New York, I did the town hall. So what's that? That's 2000, I think. So, but, and then, and then it just depends. People in New York like you better. I think so, yeah. Yeah, you got to know when you got, you know, you got glasses. Yeah. LA, it's more like, you know, sunglasses. Yeah. And I'm not that guy. Me neither. And then it just depends, really. But I'm looking forward to coming out. So, for those of you watching this episode now, they're the only ones seeing this. You may have seen that twice. Once earlier, at the end of the commercials, at the end of the commercials, because people fast forward, I can't have them, people are paying me, you know what I'm saying. Wonderful. There's a couple of things I'm going to ask of you. I needed, we'll do theme music. That was fun, man. Thank you. Yeah, that was one of those ones where like, I really like, I love that, you know, I'm happy putting this out because I know people like this now that I've done this enough. But if this were earlier, this, I'd be insecure. It would freak you out. Too much. It's too much. But like, I just loved that conversation. Yeah, yeah. Thank you.