Rohan Sheth: How To Build A Scalable Lead Generation System

Hey there everybody it is Nick Bradley here welcome to scale up for this week. So today you are going to get a bit of a treat because you are going to go behind the closed doors of my high value business boardroom. Now this is my membership program for elite entrepreneurs those who are growing scaling and building a high value exitable business. And what I do on a monthly basis is I get guest experts to come in and tackle a very important but specific topic of the high value exit framework. Now when we're building a business that is valuable and we're building a business that can be sold for millions if you choose to do that one day there are certain components that are critical and one of those areas is having predictable sales, predictable revenue growth. And within the boardroom program we call that pipeline and within pipeline there are a number of components and one of those is getting predictable lead flow. So building a system, building a machine so that you don't have to ever worry about leads right what a great place to be right. So today what I'm going to do is I'm going to invite you into the boardroom you're going to get behind those closed doors and you are going to hear from a very very good friend of mine and special guests Rohan chef now Rohan has been on the podcast before it was a couple of years ago. But today you're going to actually sit in on a training that he did live for my group members. Now if you don't remember Rohan or you've just started listening to scale up Rohan is a seasoned entrepreneur he's a marketing strategist he's renowned for building high volume lead generation across various social media platforms. He's the founder and CEO of Grorev which is an advertising media buying agency that has run ads and traffic for some of the biggest brands in the world including Tony Robbins. And today he speaks on stages he's involved in so many different things all around high impact lead generation. So if you are sitting there thinking God how can I get more predictability in my business how can I start to build effective sales funnels and landing pages how can I master paid traffic how can I get consistent client acquisition you are going to get a heap out of this session. So sit back enjoy and welcome to the high value business boardroom Rohan chef. Obviously great to meet all you guys you know going into this when I was talking to Nick a lot of it was okay what do you want me to talk about because paid advertising can be pretty overwhelming so I'm going to try and keep it as very simple as I possibly can. So let's just jump into it. So Grorev as Nick mentioned has been around since 2018 as a company I've been running paid ads now since 2013 started off in the affiliate world then transition in the agency about 2015 built the brand Grorev in 2018. These numbers need to be a little bit more updated as we spend over 150 million as the last deal we spent well with 300 million frackable we put online is a hundred and fifty million dollars driven over two billion dollars in revenue some of the clients that we've worked with that you guys may recognize from a public facing perspective. Tony Robbins and Dean Grazi also you've been a client of mine since pretty COVID J Shetty Grand Cardone most people would recognize him and what's going on right now as well as to be familiar with the platform click funnels and Russell Brunson we ran click funnels as traffic for about four years so I'm going to kind of speed through this in a little bit I want to make it more conversational as possible with Nick and then with you guys towards the end so I'm just going to kind of throw it out there. Why paid ads matter for professional services home services whatever I just kind of put professional services on here. The four main things that I like to look at is it makes you stand out especially in today's growing advertising platforms you know online when I got into the digital agency space people were scared to spend money online and it's still there today but there's more and more businesses starting to spend money online and it's like how do you cut through the noise and you cut through the competition especially for people like you guys that are you know taking business seriously working and getting coached through with Nick this it's the quickest way to do it. Precision targeting you know reaching specific audiences with AI powered tools as I'm sure everyone's seen right now AI becoming a bigger bigger not only buzzword but it's becoming a very very use case scenarios in all different kinds of businesses inside a grower for example we've got essentially three different divisions we've got a division where we work with our professional services home service division and we've got all of our director consumer e-commerce divisions and then we've also got what we call our info coaching and scalable brands on that side and across the board we've set up AI behind the scenes to work at many different places fun enough this entire presentation built through AI so to give you context like just for kind of either purpose right paid ads also helps build credibility showcases expertise and authority if your business is not let's say a national brand it's the quickest way to become like a local celebrity using paid ads locally in your space and a perfect example of this one of my best friend is a real estate I live in Vancouver Canada and he's a real estate agent next to actually met him before and we when we first started working with him and just kind of I just kind of consulted his brand he was doing pretty well for the most part it's you know probably a million two million dollars a year and we just started running paid ads at a small budget like 50 bucks a day within about 120 days or so he was getting stopped everywhere in our local community and today his Netflix has reached out to him to do a show because of how big his his scalability has happened inside of the network so from a credibility standpoint there's nothing that's going to build that faster than paid advertising you could do it through social media it does take a little bit longer but so you can buy that time through paid advertising and it's a predictable pipeline rates scaling legion beyond referrals is definitely something that most founder load businesses have to deal with something to mean next deal with all the time and kind of go down that rate can I ask you just if we jump back for a sec what are some of the reservations that you see most people have around this I think it's I mean unless you've got this a little bit later on Rohan but I'm always conscious that you know certainly for me when I started doing my sort of stuff I've always had you know a fear of it on the basis of it can feel a little bit unquantifiable as I said you know sometimes you've got to spend a lot initially to work things out what are you seeing in terms of that at the moment? Oh here's the biggest one that I see a lot of the time so it's like oh I've been burnt by agencies I've spent money or you know people like oh I've hit that boost button on Instagram or on Facebook and I've just not gotten the leads out of it and it comes down to understanding it's like okay there there is a way to just lay up money on fire like I've been in add accounts and we've added add accounts where customers are just our clients are just letting up like 50 to 100 grand like with nothing to show but if you know literally just if I can ask what's the psychology behind that now because is it because there's faith that you have to kind of go down that path before you find something that equally works as well or is it just what is it specifically? In terms of why people are when people have the fear around it? Well you know in the situation where someone would be prepared to put that sort of investment in not showing immediate return because I think the thing that a lot of people think is if I'm going to put a buck in I want to get three bucks out right now you can do that through paid media we know that but as I said from the outset it can take a bit of time how do you get over that sort of that fear? It's understanding it's understanding your numbers right one of the things that we do inside of inside a grove as you know is you know whether the net what we call internally is the term is called the growth navigator process the one thing is understanding okay what is the and I talked about this a little bit later but it's like are we going from brand awareness? Are we going for lead generation which you mentioned earlier like building a list so that we can you know life cycle market them later on through emails and SMS and everything else or are we going for a straight purchase because there's multiple different ways that's one part of it and outside of that is also understanding in case if we're going for lead generation or customer acquisition right off the get go what are we willing to pay to acquire that customer because if we know what our numbers are willing to pay to that acquire that customer that's two things that you got to understand because what is the front end acquisition cost and then what is their lifetime value for that customer and I kind of give you a broader example so people can kind of understand it when we come into add accounts for example especially when people are spending call it north of 10 15 20 thousand dollars a month I'm not looking at what they see what the customer acquisition costs are I want to know what their LTV is which is lifetime value because when I understand what their lifetime value even if I cut it in half let's just say if the lifetime value is 10 thousand dollars for a customer that's over 12 6 to 12 months 18 months however long the customers with them so I might start up questioning so if I go and spend $5,000 to go get you one customer knowing you're going to make $10,000 over the next 12 to 18 months are you okay with that when you sort of correlate that into people's perspective they then they kind of like oh now I can understand why I can get over that fear it's just understanding the numbers everything to pay to advertising is numbers across the board it's when you go and blindly spend money online got it yes as long as you know and you're confident on on that return whatever that is okay makes perfect sense yeah so yeah essentially going on that route so the the main platforms that we're focusing on internally right now Google and when I say Google ads that's everything from search everything on gne and everything on youtube LinkedIn if you're doing b2b LinkedIn is for sure probably the most expensive platform that you going to get from a lead generation perspective by far but if you're going to be to be audience and you go to professional service of business you know you can target directly your roles inside of the company and then if the more granular you get the costs on LinkedIn do come down neta for sure is my favorite the one thing about neta that most people don't understand is there's two ways of doing meta one is you could just essentially create a crap load of creative and let the algorithm do the work for you and as I showed it to you I think yesterday Nick when we're in a call so even with our advertising now internally like we're launching an entire campaign with don't get overwhelmed by this number if you're watching this or listening to this but we're launching an entire campaign with 336 different variations of ads and just saying go find me this exact type of person that I'm looking for and then let the the algorithm do its thing that's on one side on the other side you can go in and literally go very granular through interest-based targeting leveraging tools like chat GPT or cloud to say okay let's just say if you're in I don't know the construction space is that you know who you can just let me go into into chat GPT and ask them give me 10 different targeting options interest based targeting options inside of meta that I wouldn't be paying attention to and chat GPT will literally break it down because off the top of our head we're thinking of you know whoever's in our in our business or in the side of our business that would kind of reinforce business to kind of target those interests but there's people that meta knows that are different interests that you wouldn't even think about so it's leveraging those things and then breaking your budget down to a small the platform or the small of a budget as you possibly can the last thing is video platforms the one that's shocking everybody and I just did a speech on Saturday Friday or Saturday last week when I was in Austin Texas is Snapchat. Snapchat is becoming a bigger bigger bigger platform for us and most people think of Snapchat as you know a platform just to send pictures to your friends or whichever way you want to think about it but when we look at Snapchat now after I talk to our reps if I tell you their demographic you're going to be mind blown by it because it's 51% of the people on the platform are over the age of 35 with an average income of 151 thousand dollars and the reason being is most of those people most of the people that are over the age of 35 have kids that are only using Snapchat to communicate with like with their children because their children refuse to talk to them on any other platform so they've put in so much time and effort into making their platform so much better from an advertising perspective that it's pretty wild and because it's such an underutilized platform from a marketing perspective people are not spending money there which means the cost of advertising is actually considerably cheaper compared to Facebook and Google and LinkedIn. What's your view then again on where you've got something really expensive in comparison like LinkedIn because a lot of the people here may think of using LinkedIn like James might want to go and find deals on that Stephen might want to go it's a very targetable platform so you pay for that targeting versus something like Snapchat which you know on the face of it you would think why the hell would I put an ad on that right it's for young people sharing but the cost to utilize that is low what's your view about that right should you go on a lower cost platform that's new you know even though it doesn't necessarily feel like it's the right thing or should you invest in LinkedIn which everyone knows your audience is on there but it's going to cost you a lot more to get to it what's the balance well my my media thought goes into what is your average order value for your customer what is your lifetime value for customer if you know your lifetime value for customers in north of call it $20,000 I'm going to LinkedIn because you're going to get that time and if it's a b2b audience at 100% go to LinkedIn any day of the week or Facebook even start on Facebook and then move over to LinkedIn because you're going to get the most targeted audience from there now the one thing that you've got to understand with platforms like Snapchat or even like I haven't even talked about ex on here or which you speak on Twitter is you use it essentially as a traffic advertising platform so you go there and advertise get the pixel data and then you retarget them on other platforms like LinkedIn like Facebook so then that way now they've seen you on one platform and now you start to look omnipresent on where everything else you can be. James has asked a question so I'll bring it in here because it's relevant to this pie said what industries do you see working on Snapchat a lot of Legion a lot when I say Legion so like lawyers health care is working on Snapchat b2b they just launched um lead forms so we're internally testing it as well um it's not the best when it comes to if you're expecting someone to go into purchase a b2b option we're just going lead form go get directly to our SDR or etc and then having them qualify from there um in for info products it's starting to get better so information products and coaching products it's starting to get better we are seeing early signs of that data on there uh and then if you're in the health and wellness face it's crushing for health and wellness like a lot of marginality telemedicine and everything like that yeah telemedicine all of our big telemedicine clients that uh Facebook just decided to come in and smack pretty aggressively in January and February of this year we've can pretty much move them majority of their traffic over to snapchat. Crafting and effective ad strategy now this is where kind of talking about what I brought up earlier right um the simplest ways to do it and I like to kind of break everything down in pillars and kind of just for the way I talk about things and it will tell you is the sort of the simplest way to do it is define a clear objective right what is what I mentioned earlier brand awareness lead generation or conversion what do you want to go to what I first got started in the marketing industry I worked at a lot of big corporate brands and they would just be like here's a million dollar budget go blow it all we want to care about is how many people have seen this ad which to me it was kind of like a zero something game kind of understanding the methodology of it where like if what if we can just put a dollar bit behind that and then get two dollars to come out the other side whether it's in 1690 days um which goes into lead generation and as well as conversion now if we were to talk about this probably even early last year I'd have probably have it switched and the reason why I say that is because today lead generation is actually cheaper than even going for conversions on platform so if you're familiar with terms like VSL webinars with VSLs which stands for video sales letters or webinars those are conversion based campaigns are going for direct approaches specifically and I'm talking about B2B side of businesses you break that down for everyone here just I know this is probably basics because and maybe let's use meta as an example so if and I'll ask the specific question we get into it so if I want brand awareness I can choose a brand awareness campaign pretty much can I and and the metric that I'm going to get looking at is it eyeballs right number of people okay yeah the amount of impressions the people have seen on the platform and you can just and if like a brand awareness but the thing is with brand awareness is like are you are you seeing are the is it the right person seeing it that's the issue when people go and you know when we talk about earlier in the calls if people go ahead that boost post button and not really fill out any of the other details inside of it it's you don't know who's seeing it right isn't your target audience is it some one it's not even in your target audience is seeing it so there's kind of that 50 50 draw on like what am I going to get out of it that's why I prefer lead generation and conversion I think what's what's what's what's we've had on the mentoring calls here we've been talking a lot about LinkedIn organic for example and you and I know a lot about this over the last few months where you're getting you know sometimes you'll put a post out there it'll go viral you have you know we've had millions of impressions on some of our posts right but there's no visibility right like you look at the number of impressions you don't know who's looking at it so you're going for pure volume and scale on the premise that you're going to get a smaller percentage of the right people but it's such high volume it kind of works yeah the difference there though is you kind of paying it through time yeah it's a social media play right it's a social media play but you're paying to get the traffic versus consistently posting yeah so whereas here you're spending money just to get maybe a similar result but it's more inconsistent because you don't know necessarily who's looking correct that was that why you don't favor it as much I'm just gonna bring yeah I don't like and that's I don't really favor it as much on that part like if we were to look at the LinkedIn side right like ironically over the last three months I've had phenomenal success with the LinkedIn side on one end because like the girl that I've had is insane the people that are reaching out to me is pretty insane on that part but it's like that again it's like how many months have we been committed to putting thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars into it to get to that point now imagine if I just taken the thirty forty thousand dollars that we've spent and just put it into lead general or into a brand awareness campaign I could have probably bought that much faster like this isn't it yeah but sometimes people don't think of it like that cool right let's go into each of the others so just to find again we can use meta as the example so if I'm building a lead gen campaign what does that look like yeah so lead gen campaign directly inside of meta has what we call lead ads um we are aggressively testing it now just because we are we've built all of our lead generation um and obviously me being in a B2B play my back my entire team I was sale focused right so with meta if we were to even reverse pre-COVID you know cost of meta was pretty cheap over the last years since COVID with you know everybody spending money online cost what we call CPM cost with thousand views has gone up consistently and it goes up every year without a doubt 10% year over a year um over the last year it's seen the highest spike that meta has ever seen that is where conversion campaigns are getting more more expensive and I'll give you context for this so we we were spending for a client about you know hundred thousand to a quarter million dollars a day at one point in time on a webinar campaign which was a direct to purchase two thousand dollar offer right so they were buying uh they were buying online course for two thousand dollars in the webinar we could easily get that purchase behavior pre early 2024 for around seven hundred dollars so they were still in the green by both three hundred dollars every single purchase campaign halfway through 2024 as obviously election cycles and the money from the elections kind of served up into the market and the marketing dollars it we couldn't break twenty three to twenty four hundred dollars even if we tried every which we did becoming the best media buyers to get that two thousand dollar purchase which means CPMs have gone up so cost for every thousand viewers has gone up through the roof which means cost for leads gone up all that could stop what we started to test towards the end of last year we said okay let's remove the conversion and put the conversion back into the sale side of things and start building a setting team and a closing team directly and use that testing that theory over since call it November of last year has actually brought our cost for conversion down some but seventeen hundred dollars for a two thousand dollar buyer now obviously you're putting a variable of a person involved but as long as you can get your sales team dialed enough you can actually flood them with more leads because the cost per lead is considerably cheaper okay so just let me summarize that for everyone here because it's going to link into what we talk about next month in terms of the sale side so one thing you'll find here and it kind of covers I suppose the pipeline pillar and sales and marketing in general is that just doing one thing you know somewhat randomly let's say without a clear focus on what you're trying to achieve and a strategy to achieve it is a very very easy way of wasting money so what Rohan was kind of saying there is like you know ads in their own right can support things but if you're actual sales process or your kind of prospect to conversion process is not clear then you can actually kind of lose just because you haven't got that sequence right so absolutely so adding for example a human touch point you know Mohammed we've spoke about the kind of client experience on your side getting really intentional about how you want to take someone from unaware to a paying client customer you need to be intentional about that process and am I right to say Rohan when you get clear on that and you test and you iterate that's when you start to get the best return on certainly the paid media side as well by far by far like in test and the biggest thing you'll see you talk about this in a little bit but like you have to test and test very aggressively right because on the paid media side specifically there's so many different variants that you need to be testing and it's funny because we came and Nick seemed this transition first hand because when even when I first met Nick Nick we were like 100% all we're doing is your paid advertising then we're like okay let's do your copyright then we're like okay let's do your creatives now we're like let's do your videos now we're also it's looking at landing pages so it's like it's got to a point where we're not just testing what the person sees but what are they seeing all the way through until they either become a lead and then eventually potentially even become a customer on that side and now funny enough within the next three or four months we're also going to be adding a sales division and full done for you growth operating division on the back end of everything because then from the time someone becomes a lead to the time someone purchases something we are fully responsible for that cycle because there is kind of a lot of variables to be testing in all times yeah and I'll finish by this before we go through the rest anyone here it doesn't matter you know quite frankly about whether you want to introduce ads into your kind of marketing machine now or not one takeaway here is get really clear on that customer journey or that prospector customer journey okay that's that's critical and then once you get that working maybe maybe you get that working more organically first before you start to turn up the ads but you still need to understand that as cool as what I call foundation 100% and the one thing that I usually tell people it's like you know start and you'll see me talk about this probably next slide in the slide after but it's like start with a small budget right like $50 a day most people can afford 50 dollars a day on Facebook or meta or Google really to get kind of going like you can even just start bidding on on Google ads but it's like if you don't start you're not going to know and the longer you wait to start the more expensive it's going to be so and the one thing Facebook likes to see in the platform zoo like to see and I haven't really talked about this in a long time but it's like they want to seek consistency they'd rather you say spending $50 a day consistently even if it's five days a week and the algorithm knows you're going to shut it off on a Saturday or Sunday wait if you set up your campaigns that way it's like they want to seek consistency over time because that eventually favors you as the advertiser if someone else tries to compete with you in this on the on in your same offer or your same business type and that's why Mr. Zuckerberg's so rich that's exactly why so rich um and then yeah going into the next thing is obviously knowing your audience right uh detailed segmentation and biopersona's understanding what the person's thinking up here is more important than anything else and you know it's never been easier my opinion now with chat GPT because what you could even do is take all of your customers send them a survey of like 10 ask chat GPT I want to survey my question I want to survey my customers as they why they bought from me give me 10 questions to ask and send that survey out to your entire into your entire audience let them answer now it's giving you the persona where they were before they became a customer of yours right so understanding that because that goes into how you write your copy how your creatives are being made you know what you're even targeting on Facebook at that point in time specifically based on all those segmentations because a lot of the times when we get into business um and I the reason why I know this because I'm talking to business owners all day long is like oh I think this is who my customer is because this is why I started the business it's like what you think is very different than what your customers actually thinking and that's the person we need to be talking to not what you think because my favorite line in in marketing is at the end of the men line women line numbers don't the numbers are going to tell you straight up the get go that what you think is completely wrong and I can prove that every single time and just understanding that whole thing which goes into the next part of you know develop your messaging and offers uh also your US fear unique selling proposition and having a compelling cta um to go back to what I was talking about earlier with us testing 336 different pieces of creative that we're going live with today and the way we're doing it is to give you context obviously there's a pretty wide campaign so we've taken eight of our 14 of our best best case studies that we have in different niches so everything from information products to uh professional services home services legal uh men's boss telehealth e-commerce products across the board and we've just built a very compelling audio very compelling offer for all of them and testing different headlines different call to actions different pieces of creative because I don't know what the I know what case study is going to cross because it's going to get right front of the right audience but I don't know what headlines going to make them stop to read it and I don't know what CT is going to make them click to become a lead and if we don't test it massive scale we're not going to know we're going to let Facebook decide that so that's kind of what it comes back down to when I say you know we're under some of your unique selling proposition is I love selling on case studies a lot of the time because at the end of the day there's no better way of selling than having somebody else tell tell other people why you're so down good that's kind of what it comes down to anything on that nick you know just obviously CTA call to action for everyone who doesn't know what that is I know most people do and the only thing I'll say like I've been playing around the sort of messaging and offer stuff for quite a while and and one of the things you probably don't know this Rohan but the first pillar within sort of the pipeline part of kind of the methodology we teach is called elite positioning and we've been teaching models and we've been teaching frameworks but the key thing there is you can take your your model your IP and you can use that to create your USP right and then depending on how you get clear on I'm going to put four factors in front of everyone here which will make some sense to your point Rohan so if you understand the sort of fears and the frustrations and the wants and aspirations of your ideal target and you can use chat GPT I've shown a few people how to do this you can actually get the top 10 if you put the right information in so what are the 10 fears what are the 10 frustrations what are the 10 wants what are the 10 aspirations you can actually understand someone's immediate problem or immediate opportunity and you can understand their longer term kind of aspiration of what they want to achieve and their biggest fear now once you start to understand all of that you can then get really dialed in in the messaging and office in that right Rohan so you can actually test which hot button right if you understand what I'm saying is gonna get the best response so I'll finish yeah I mean like you know everyone everyone in this group is here because they're looking to grow scale by companies exit companies right that's what we're here for I I know the hot buttons that get certain people really triggered and you know one of those for example and Stephen you know this really really well is you know I'm the bottleneck in my business right everything revolves revolves around me I'm not seeing my my kids grow up because I'm stuck in this bloody thing that I thought was going to create freedom so once you start to understand that and that's just not to pick on you Stephen because everyone's got similar kind of views on that once you understand that you can test that and then you can kind of get into this piece around working what works and then the the next part is obviously just budget and bidding strategy right optimizing based on CPC which stands for cost for like CPM which I said it's cost of 1000 views and then CPA which is cost for acquisition model so really fingering out which way you want to go now if you're going to go test this and like I said and this is something that I share a lot with people is like if you're going to go test this with you know even it look probably you hire a VA from the Philippines to go design some of your ads you know get at least 10 to 15 different pieces of creative that you can test over as you launch a campaign and then once a week buy new creative but shouldn't pass you a lot of money if you have someone from the Philippines doing it the easiest way to bring you one there's another metric that I didn't put in here which is CPL but the easiest way to make sure that your CPL and CPC stay down is by increasing your CTR which if you're cost your click through rate and if you can the way to test your click through rate is like testing more creative because the more people that stop and watch and click and add comes directly correlated from the ad that they're seeing with you if you have a higher CTR most of your metrics majority of the time and there's a lot of caveats on this but the simplest way to look at is the rest of your numbers stood waterfall down all the way through the click click through rate is effectively what the the first interaction that someone's going to take on the ad the message they see right so and what happens what happens if I mean you ever see situations where that's low but then it picks up later on through the funnel all the time all the time yeah like if we have like the one thing that we usually like to look at and we look at a 1% click through rate like that's our baseline that we want to work on across all campaigns obviously anything in the 234 click through you've got a wicked ad and the thing is just going to print even if you're cost even if your CPA is really high but you click through it's good you know you're getting a lot of volume through the front end so you can make it up on the back end kind of thing there are odd times where it's like our click through rate is just low but we're just getting a perfect buyer on the back end so it may just take a lot more people to see that right ad but it's pulling the right buyer so you kind of have to look at your numbers and your data and as Nick you've seen we're very very data analyze across every single outcome but there's certain baseline that we want to work off of before we start going and scaling at ad dollars so targeting tactics and obviously AI innovation you know AI segmenting segmentations through or AI driven segmentations you know identify audience segments kind of what I already shared about earlier leveraging AI and asking AI like literally if you just sit for two three hours on you know the coffee shop and you go through and you know ask simple questions of what would you do on this platform what would you do on that platform who would be my target audience what kind of interest targeting am I not paying attention to that you know you that you can give me AI will give you all of that it's actually mind blowing to see what it's actually been doing micro targeting I'm just gonna go the other way it doesn't really matter which way it's just kind of on here micro targeting obviously real niche and professional audiences especially if you had to be to be spaced LinkedIn is really good at this and Facebook starting to become insanely good at it I think because they're starting to see a lot of B2B audiences being left from Facebook to go to LinkedIn so they're kind of opening that back up predictive analytics forecasting conversion probability so an analytics too is like you know Facebook's algorithm I'm just gonna work at Facebook just so it doesn't get confusing but Facebook's algorithm on the data that they give you is I'd say about 80% accurate most of the time but it's enough to make a judgment on if this ad is going to work or not there's other tools like high rows or wicked reports we use high rows a lot instantly because it's pulling through data directly off your website directly off your funnel to kind of make sure that your make for every dollar you're spending whatever the KPI that you're tracking on makes the most sense and then dynamic ads so like I talked about already tailor content on user data the 336 pieces of content that we're testing with that's the reason why we're doing it that way another questions come through again from James if the click through is high but the purchase rate is low what would what would be the first thought you have on the issue your funnel's broken okay let's do it so yeah so essentially if you click the rate is high and you know you're getting obviously there's two caveats here we just had an ad just for context I don't know where just go from like a 1% click the rate to like a 8 9 10% click the rate and I would like what is going on 9 out of 10 times if you see back kind of a bike your ad being bought it by something somewhere that you're never going to be able to know shut that out right like that's kind of easy so just to be clear on that you when you say bots it's being effectively sabotage hijacked someone someone got someone got the link somewhere we don't know where it's coming from this it happens way more often than you think it is if it's just like an odd anomaly over a day obviously don't get freaked out by the day look at it over the week and if you're noticing it over two three days consistently that's something that's going on with that specific ad shut it off and get rid of it got it okay just so let's go deeper into into your point around the funnels when you say the funnels broken because I look at it like this that there are different stages right and there could be any point like I call it friction in the pipe right like so you got a high click through rate great they get they're then getting to the next step right but isn't it isn't it quite sequential Rohan so like let's say I've got people clicking on an ad then they they hit the landing page would you then say the issue is the landing page the first thing or is it kind of like how do you then assess the different stages after that well it's dependent right because are we going for lead for are we going for are they going for direct to purchase with multiple sides or if you click to read as high but you purchase behaviors load that means somewhere along the way like what we're clicking and seem to what you're actually offering them isn't aligning got it so there's a confusion in messaging or whatever and there's that whole idea what do we say a confused mind never buys right never buys exactly yeah so say and that's enough that's a good point to like whatever they're seeing on an ad make sure that the next page of the next thing that they see after they click on that ad aligns exactly to what they just saw because that is how you keep all the way sequentially keeping your costs across the board in in line I suppose that's where you also have the issue of why there's a lot of pushback on the click baity type stuff like you know let's have a headline where someone clicks on it because it sounds very good but when they go through it delivers nothing it's nowhere near because you it's literally click bait and like we do a lot of clickbait advertising and full transparency it works in certain niches right so it's like if you're talking about like crazy supplements that are going to change someone's life or whatever the end of the day there's what's the difference to be buying the supplement online versus going to like Amazon or something else you kind of have to understand that the audience that you're going after so your headlines have to be a little bit more clickbaity in certain niches to get them to pull but as long as I clickbait also translates onto the landing page or whatever sales mechanism that why they just clicked it and kind of keeps going it does work in certain businesses. Good. Mohammed has asked this and I think we covered it before so I can probably answer it said what's the what's an average and what's a high click-through rate I think you said brohand one percent is kind of average if you're getting two to three percent that's damn good. Pretty good yeah and then again obviously you've got to map all that through to what you're selling but hopefully that answers the question Mohammed okay let's keep going good stuff. Yeah sweet so obviously designing a high performing ad creatives I am of very big proponent right now with obviously where the algorithms going and like I said I give a case study of what we're doing entirely is creative is going to be the way the the algorithms are going to go in the future even though right now you can still go a lot more interest-based targeting and micro and granular and it works but how to kind of do it obviously clear value proposition you know instantly communicate for what your unique benefit is why they need to be working with you versus someone else strong visuals leverage AI because there's a lot of cool things you can do now AI in terms of getting you know professional imagery or even short videos and clipping videos etc compelling call to action direct action oriented button for the next step as to what they need to do at the end of the talk to them tell them what they need to do when they're reading the ad watching the ad everything and then obviously credibility markers logos awards testimonials credentials one of the ads that we have is literally just it has it says nothing for me nothing from the team and it's just a literal reel of all of our clients talking about us and then at the end of it there's an AI voice that says if you want to be one of our next case studies click the button below that's literally it right so it's like just literally test and many many different forms in different ways of running creatives quick question just what I think of it I think will be useful here as well you've mentioned a lot of different AI tools and I know there are some of these are specific for advertising and paid media but not not exclusively of course so what are the what are the kind of some of the key tools that you're using at the moment across that sort of marketing landscape there's a lot I personally if I'm just and I'm for my I like to simplify my life like my creative team has a ton of different ones we use 11 labs for audio we're using a de-script for some art from for something else I can get the lessons and it's unique and if you want to send it over to the guy after you're using gamma for this aren't you for this presentation yeah I think it's more of a general point because we have we have talked more about AI and we've got some in in some of the curriculum we have some prompt based activity going on through chat GPT which is I tend to use chat GPT quite a bit but I think it's it's useful for people here to start thinking about what they can be using it more for that GPT's newest update they came out last night I was watching videos on it this morning fun enough for video creative and for image creative is insane I was testing it earlier because I'm going to kind of create my own ad creators that I want to test for our own ads versus our graphic design team it literally just updated last night so I don't know if it's a rule done across all like all users yet it's wild what you can do you can literally be holding something up and then like find an AI image and then put your product picture and it can hold your picture like your product in it like it's that I'm saying it's just on chat GPT so I think they're going to try and obviously between them and Claude and Grock and we are the ones I think they're going to end up consolidating throughout the process as it's going to end in being in one platform across everything else but right now there's a new one coming up every other day when it comes to definitely overwhelming I think so so I think I definitely think give us a list of some of the ones you're seeing across the general marketing landscape because some people here are doing you know their own social content for example I know you can use chat GPT for a lot of that stuff to simplify so that'd be cool yeah I'll put I'll put a list together of kind of ad creators ad copy for copy in my opinion Claude is probably better than chat GPT it just understands how to write direct response copy a lot better and I'll put a link video stuff in there as well sweet let's talk about landing pages and final considerations so landing pages is pretty much just where someone goes to your website could be something like like fun all their go high level you know dedicated landing pages specific to ad messages and not directly to a homepage and if you're going directly from an ad that talks about let's say for us for example when we're talking about on our on our ads and before talking about information offers and then I can't see if you're coach information offer or an agency that wants direct you know once more leads we're going to send them to a landing page that says exactly that versus if it's a plumber we're going to send them to a landing page that talks about plumbers some of the direct correlation and that they're not confused when it comes to why I might see one ad and go into a landing page on the opposite side which goes back to why you might have a good click through but a shittier conversion rate in the back and because they're probably not talking to each other messaging consistency obviously match the ad tone like I talked about earlier and the look and the offer has to kind of go hand in hand especially on that first sales page with its lead generation page or some sort of a purchase behavior page they have to go hand in hand what happens after that can be much more tailored and customized based on what they read and see so then that would they can understand like whether it's a page where they get to know you videos from you etc now they've already in your ecosystem so they can kind of be sold uh simplified lead capture minimal fields for higher conversions um obviously the more fields you put in the less conversion you're going to be and this goes back to what I talked about earlier is the why we're testing much more aggressively on lead form because if I can just get name email phone number um I know with my sales team and with my email team between the two I can hit them multiple different ways to kind of get them down to play if they don't decide to convert as well now once we started testing where it's like income what are you earning in revenue all this other stuff our cost for lead just starts to go through the roof I've just done something actually for my my upcoming book launch because I'm on a um I'm speaking at an event tomorrow and we've done something where we've got exactly what you said so we've got uh it's kind of a wait list wait list for the book um name uh email I think we've got phone number but then what we're doing after that so the first landing page is you know literally sign up for the wait list it's launching May there'll be bonuses etc etc it's just going to be some basic stuff but they sign up and then we hit well then we're hitting them with I think five or six questions which is then profiling them now of course people will bounce from that page but I've already captured their email first and they're contacted us but the profiling page is you know do you own a business you know what's the revenue what's the profit do you want to exit your business in the future etc etc um and then it goes into a very basic thank you sort of video of me saying hey listen you know the book's coming what's your view on that structure where you kind of take the data because I've got the email now right because I'm giving them access to some bonuses for the book but then I'm profiling post that so I suppose it's a clever way in my mind yeah overwhelming them with too many questions at the very beginning well at the end of the day goes back down to and you know let's just let's just look at it and I'll give this as a perfect example so like being the information marketing space right during COVID everyone was buying everything online it didn't matter the price point so everybody just removed Legion opt-up opt-ins of when directive ESL director webinars to try and get that purchases fast they possibly can which kind of screwed up the marketing because in my eyes marketing runs cyclical as well to the economy cycle but COVID kind of just shifted that entire cycle and kind of that's a whole different conversation that I can have around what happened there um but one thing that people did was yes they went for the most of my cash upfront but then they didn't think about the long tail back end issues that the business would come from and true director response marketing if you go for the lead the name email for number and even if they don't purchase immediately now guess what they may just need to know you they may need to like understand more touch points from you know you like you trust you those are the three main things in sale that marketing at the end of the day and it's like how can we build that trust now all those businesses that didn't go and build a list back during the COVID era are now struggling the most because they don't have a list for everything that else that they have the all the purchase behaviors or people that did buy were today they're going to launch a new offer to a list that already spent money on back in the day so it kind of goes hand in hand in that world yeah well I think that the big thing for me is you know and I've said this consistently here in the group before and is you know it doesn't matter what business you're in bilge list right and have you know have list building activities going all the time because it just gives you so many more options 100% and which goes back down to the last point here which is automated follow-ups you know email sequences for lead nurturing text messages follow-up so you can do you know automated voice mail drops and stuff like that now too so there's multiple different ways and Nick for when Nick first met me I was building one of the very first Instagram automation chatbots that whole world is becoming even bigger and bigger now if you you know more focus on social media but between literally text message follow-up and email marketing those two alone you can just absolutely your lead generation should never have an issue moving forward and this is just kind of arbitrary numbers across the board so don't that sort of kind of put like between two and 10 percent conversion it's going to be anything for budget management and ROI tracking you know on the low end we usually suggest people 50 dollars a day 500 dollars a day if you can afford it will be the quickest way to start we've got clients spending way way more than that I think I mentioned earlier at one point there was one client we were spending a quarter million dollars a day for which is pretty wild you can you share something if you can't share this then say you know shut up effectively because but actually probably shouldn't say the name but I know you ran some big campaigns for some of the people that you introduced at the very beginning so we won't necessarily pick on any one of those individuals but just give us a sense when when you know someone like a Tony or whatever you know Grant or whatever when they run a big campaign what sort of ad spend are they putting behind some of their their offers just just arbitrary on the low end 20 30 thousand a day right like a day yeah right but but they're but they're also smart on the side they're building their list they're buying out the market right like that's essentially what it is they just get it if we can go and get as much attention as we possibly can even though we're running leading campaigns or conversion campaigns when you're spending that kind of money you're getting brand awareness just by you know osmosis by having to do that much spend like when we had you know what there's a big client that we had out of Australia from for a long time for what six years the lowest we ever spent in a month for them was probably 1.5 million dollars in a month the lowest the highest we ever spent for them was about six and a half seven million dollars in one month right that's across multiple different campaigns and then there was one specific client per on Facebook alone we were spending a quarter million a day which is mind boggling that's the different that's a different line out of the US and yeah and just so we can touch on the mindset here because some of those numbers you know most people when they hear that for the first time just can't comprehend it but the mindset is two things isn't it's if I can outspend the market like you know what do you always say the person who can spend the most on ads and still make a profit wins yeah the most it actually the most you can spend to acquire a customer wins right like I'll give you I'll give you context there's a client that we had these guys had their numbers so dialed and I mean so dialed where it's like he would come to us and say here's the quarter million dollars burn it like literally that's what he would say because all he wanted to know was his numbers he's like what are my numbers and then we'll come back and now we'll build everything based on the quarter million dollars with the data obviously we still got sales and everything yes it may not have broken maybe they got 50 grand back I don't know like it was just like go get me the data it's only wanted and then we will come back and a lot of the time if you would say okay this is what we're willing to spend to acquire a customer on the front end day one to seven okay so let's just say if it costs some 25 hundred bucks to acquire customer between day one and day seven I am willing to go negative on that amount for 60 days post day seven but know that I'll make 100% of the money back on anything else that I sell them after 60 days so they were going think about how long they were going negative for day for 60 days until I started to compound but once it starts to compound on the way back in it starts to just print money on the back end yeah so one thing to take away I mean I know we're getting into quite a lot of technical detail and and to be frank this is what it is it is you do need to understand this stuff to do it well where I think people kind of fail is they try and tinker around the edges and that doesn't mean necessarily throwing heaps of money at it but they kind of go into it thinking that they can just kind of you know sign up to a meta account and buy ads and all that sort of stuff but that's you know it's great to learn anything but realize that that can be quite an expensive lesson the key thing I've noticed from and I've got different clients across the world some are very experienced in the paid media side some are not but they have one consistency and that one consistency is they they think you know I'm going to put a buck in to make two or three bucks back and they're always thinking and not just straight away they're thinking it through the life cycle of the client and they're prepared to spend five six million bucks a month or whatever the thing is because they know that they're going to get that two or three bucks back per buck they spent and again you know just for now if you take one thing away from all of this today just think of that in line of what this whole model is and that's why the scalability of it is so interesting in my opinion yeah it's it's very very scalable there is you know in social media has become very interesting recently because all these young kids running around saying oh you don't need to run ads and I'm like I guarantee the day they run and I've built a very decent social following and then I just got burnt out right but I'm not going to get burnt out shooting ads are writing copy or anything else because I can get the platforms to do that for me like advertising is one thing that's never going to go away the forms of advertising will transform but where that's going to go is just being ahead of the curve on what's kind of coming from advertising perspective yes go back now the cost for lead I kind of put the application cost even though this cp is a different metric that we look at $10 on you know from on the low on from a b2b side all the way up to $250 you use the other average on a application for arts and application is that but like booking appointments booking an appointment yeah like a full-blown book call for some sort of a consult or an audit or whatever mechanism that you're using on that we're saying they've given you everything they filled out a big form all the way through the entire funnel okay conversion on the low end is $2 all the way I mean 2% all the way up to 10% actually let me scroll back to leads for a second mix talking about his book launch earlier I just had a thought and I want to bring that up is we've just done two major book launches so every year in between q1 and q2 we do the some of the biggest book launches will come to us to run ads and we've run I don't know probably $10 $50 million at this point just to book launches and every single one we've done is hit at New York Times best seller so it's kind of where our name is kind of coming to play the two we did last year math of budgets and I mean million dollar budgets the two we just did were like less than a quarter million dollars and our cost per lead this year was half the cost per lead of last year so that goes back and just completely mythify everything in terms of what the algorithms are doing but it's like we won't know unless we test and both the book launches last year and this year have gone down that road so what's telling me is if you have any sort of front end cheap free giveaway the best word in marketing in my opinion is free ever and if you can give something away for free the algorithms are favoring that right now because we're getting a free opt in on the front end for the book launches and then going for a free purchase free order book selling the back end of it that's the reason we've seen our cost per lead just completely dive bond in half um yes the conversion rates anywhere between 2% is decent as long as you know your numbers all we have to 10% this is this marketing conversion which we call mql and then there's obviously sqo just sale call sales qualified lead and the best thing is it's you know 24/7 real-time reporting you know with with dashboards there's AI driven tools as well they can pull direct dashboards like I already mentioned a couple them earlier um and you know you don't have to sit there and refresh every single hour on the hour you got to let the platform do this thing you've got to give it some time you've got to give it some budget because usually within the first you know three to four days there was a time where it's like we would tell our clients you know the first five thousand dollars we spend for you you're probably not going to get the most accurate data because that's what the platform is where they just need a time to learn but the algorithms have gotten so good that you do within within the first four to five days of you running ads you should have an idea as to what's going on um yeah so obviously future trends that are impacting paid ads right now there's a lot of regulations and I mean a lot of regulations from obviously uh cookie the striking uh first-party data focus everything that you know ios 14 I'm not sure if you guys were around for that or any who you were marketing during that era if you're in the health of wellness space you know Eli Lilly just came and decided to tell Facebook that they don't want to they want to control as much of the telehealth data as they possible count on the health of wellness side um voice and AI assistance you know new ad formats it's starting to really really show up in terms of that world where it's like you have these ring but before ringless voice feels good what I'm starting to see now I actually just got off a call on Monday with a company that's literally just doing AI based assistant calling so it's like if you have a big list that is opted in not a bought list but an opted in list that you just feed it to this platform and then it will just call as an SDR and just set bookings for you from old leads that have known you bought from you or some sort of opt-in you have to prove that to them because they're not just going to cold call random lists AR and VR experiences you know with ads that are starting to come out the two markets that I really really pay attention to when it comes to what's working in ads because there are a lot ahead of us is Russia and China and the reason being is they're testing all of the different AR and VR software right now very aggressively like some of the Russian creatives that you see are insane right I think for the western world in terms of what we look at it's a little bit too far ahead for what they're doing but it's given two to three years time it's going to go down that route and obviously rising competition which is increasing cost per clicks CPC is going to require a very strategic approach across the board understanding everything that I talked about in terms of creative test test test test to get to that point okay good nothing there I think that's good so any any questions that are coming through actually we've got James just asked one so what were the companies that do the calls you mentioned the one that the one there's a few that are out there right now I tested one they actually just went bankrupt I tested one last year and I finally just went bankrupt it was called air AI I think that's what it was called the one that I'm testing right I don't want to give their name because I want to test it first I gave them 50,000 of my old leads from last year and I want to see what they're doing but there's tons of SDR based company that you can search up the guys have put a pretty savage guarantee in front of me so if it comes back I'll send it back to Nick and say these guys hold through so I'm a big big big big James and we can yeah once we've got some data we can post it into the into the circle for you know give me about 45 days to kind of understand because they're building like a full custom voice with me and the whole thing it's pretty crazy yeah and I'll just add on this because I've got a couple of other other businesses that are trying a testing this at the moment I haven't heard of any really good ones yet ones that I would feel comfortable the kind of there there's a lot of people who are kind of like launching AI agents and all this sort of stuff and I don't know I still I think it will get good and they're probably I think it's still early stages and like anything the one thing you know most people are so infact shooting what they're seeing on social media is like all these crazy voice AI agents it's getting there and it's getting much better than what I even saw the one I saw on Monday was much better than the one I even tested middle of last year right so it's it's getting much much better now the thing is what's the deliverability like and what's their actual like what's the show right on these things because at the end of the day anyone can camera calls you're better off going international and finding an SDR and paying them because they're probably the cheaper than paying some AI team to do it because you'd probably get a better result from that still currently sweet so it's kind of action plan and best practices you know obviously on existing channels review presence and competitors understand who you're talking to who the person is what your competitors are doing I don't even get into competitor research into this into this presentation because that's its own presentation on how we do competitor research you know you can go and look on Facebook ads library if you know your competitors you can literally find their sort their page and see what ads they're running it tells you how long they've been running it for which is a clear indication of which the ad is good ad so then just you know invest in Dan Kennedy taught me back in the day and Jay but Jay Abraham both taught me this is in marketing there's only two words that matter it's R&D and that's rip off and duplicate you know that's kind of what it comes down to so that if it's working rip it off and duplicate it it's marketing start small then scale pilot campaigns obviously before running a full investment that's what I talked about the $50 day budget testing multiple variations headlines videos called the actions what I kind of broke down how we're testing very aggressively and then aligned with obviously other marketing so like with what what do you do on the content side SEO like that's a whole different plan than we could talk about right now because SEO is a long term but it actually helps increase your caught your return on ad spend because it picks up everything else and you can start tracking that with tools like tyros branding and then obviously continuous optimization regular analysis and adjustments on everything that you're doing make sure you're spread betting your bets across the board and one of the tools that we built you know after I think our board meeting that we had in was the last one. We're not loaded now yeah yeah you know Nick left my brother who's an chief strategy officer with a pretty crazy plan and this entire plan is now turned into a tool that is now having a tech company that's going to back that's I'm building the whole thing where if you've spent I'm going to go really wild here and explain this to you if you spent ads as a company for the last 52 weeks any any amount of advertising we've built the tool internally now because of all the data that we have and we've plugged all of this data into our tool leveraging you know ad metrics of your your increases other situations like what's happening to stock market you know what's happening to purchase behavior all that good stuff I can now guarantee you what your CPA cost for acquisition or your cost per lead is going to be up to a 90% accuracy for every 13 weeks ahead right based on just knowing what you previously did it and we tested this with our clients in 2023 and saw what their 2024 numbers were multiple times and we were literally within 90% accuracy of this tool so it's now going to become a tool that we're going to end up using as a front end offer once it's fully done internally right so last slide obviously we're going into Q&A here just remember talking to masters being consistent branding obviously robust tracking and continuous optimization are literally the keys to anyone having success with their paid advertising okay very good we've got another question that's come through but I'll go to that in a second and then we can actually go to some live Q&A if people have got some additional questions for our hammer I just want to say mate very very good as I said you know through this this can get technical it can get you know quite detailed if you've never done it before so even even if it's something that's not for now have a think about you know when it could be something at some point in the future and and quite often I just believe that you've got to understand all the various channels and all the various things that you have at your disposal and and it said today is more of an education of just how this all works so you can understand it so just but on behalf of everyone here Rohan just want to say thanks for your time and yeah really really comprehensive presentations so thank you were you Nick anytime hey thank you for listening to this episode of scale up with Nick Bradley if you enjoy the show just as much as I enjoy creating it for you then I'd really appreciate you leaving a five star review wherever you listen to your podcasts and while you're there why not subscribe to the channel so you never miss a future episode it really helps me it helps the show plus it makes it easier for others to access the content that I'm producing weekend and weekend and finally if you want more information about anything you heard in today's show or to find out how you can get more help in scaling up your business and your life click the link in the show notes now to learn about our coaching mentoring and mastermind programs see you soon