‘Rocky II’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

[MUSIC] The rewatchable is brought to by the Ringer podcast network. We can find the watch with Chris Ryan. Here I am big hit episode with Vince Gilligan. >> Yeah, was it a hit? >> I didn't seem like it was a hit. Keep going and know about Pluribus. >> Yeah, do you check it out over the Thanksgiving week? >> I'm saving it, okay. >> Oh, it's good. >> It's really good. >> Yeah, yeah. Van Lathen Higher Learning. >> Absolutely. >> Ringer Tailgate, Red Hot Show right now with all the LSU drama. >> I'm going crazy so much happening. And then the PPU, me and my boys. >> I'm not actually the new head coach of North Texas. I'm going to be leaving the ranger. >> Do you like that going over there to take the job? >> Yeah. >> Before we get to the pod today, somebody sent me a video. Somebody went through all of the HBO movies from the 80s. How many times they aired into the top 50. It's on YouTube. I'll tweet it out there. >> This is my, this is right at my alley. Where did they get this data? >> He went through somehow every single week of HBO programming, couple highlights, Eddie and the cruiser, 16th. Most airings. >> Eddie and the cruiser, I don't know if that was too high or too low. >> No, it's just HBO. >> I thought this was HBO original movies, okay, my boy. >> Victory 5th. Long Wolf McQuade, I thought it was going to be really high. It was only 37th, I thought that was disappointing. >> The distortion field of your own nostalgia. >> Number one. Bill Cosby himself. >> Yeah, it was on all the time. It was a devastating number one. It was 25 minutes ago. >> But you got to keep it real, though, man. >> And it was like, what's the number of movie going to be? And it was Bill Cosby himself. >> I'm shocked this list hasn't been publicized before. >> Yeah, and you got to keep it real. Remember the bit about the, the sun playing football. >> Yeah. >> From Bill Cosby himself. >> It was on all the time. >> It was just all the time. >> Woody Allen's man had number two with a bullet. >> Eddie and the cruiser, 16th. >> Yeah. >> The streets are just shouting for the rewatchables. We just needed somewhere streaming. >> What a hobby. >> We have to be, we have, howdy, we have Pluto, one of these places. >> Pump on the volume. >> Without a streaming option. Do you feel like people just have to be able to see it, though? >> It's, I want people to see it. You know, you've seen it, right? >> Eddie and the cruiser's of course. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Do you have, you see Eddie and the cruiser's too? Eddie lives. I don't like that movie as much. I don't like when we go to Canada with Eddie. And he's working construction. >> Not a movie list, that did not make the top 50. A movie that we're about to do is our 12th Sylvester Stallone movie. A movie we've been circling for a while. Rocky too, is next. This type of the rewatchables is presented by a state farm, whether you're debating watching that, a word-winning sports drama or rewatching a comfort-buddy comedy movie for the 10th time. Choices are important. When it comes to choosing coverage, a state farm agent can help you find options that are right for you. Go online at statefarm.com or use the word winning app to get help from one of their local agents, like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. [MUSIC] >> All right guys, it's our 12th Sylvester Stallone movie, Rocky too. We've done three, we've done four, we've done one. We've done Creed, haven't done two. I'm going to go through the Stallone movies we've done. He's now tied for fourth, all time. >> This is a great example of executive unitary theory, where this is like you, with your sheer act of will, just making Stallone top four for us. >> Arguably not enough Stallone. >> What do we make it safe? There's five we haven't done. >> I like daylight. >> I like lock up. >> Delan's lock up. >> I like Nighthawks. >> You're scraping the lock up really. >> Nighthawks is cool. >> So he's tied for fourth, all time now at Denzel. Here's what we've done. So we did Rocky, the most important Stallone movie. We did Rocky III, I think the most entertaining. Rocky IV, the most 80s. >> Yeah, we're talking about the whole world, so for sure. >> First blood, I think the best 80s. >> Best 80s, what? >> Best 80s, Stallone movie. >> Okay. >> Victory, most underrated. >> That's fun. >> Beloved. >> Cobra, most ridiculous. Over the top, best bad movie he's ever made. Tango and Cash, guilty of supleasure. >> Oh, take one guy. >> Cliff Hanger, I think his best 90s movie. Kaplan, his biggest swing. Creed, best 21st century movie he made. >> Yeah. >> So what is Rocky II? >> Rocky II. Rocky II is the most important of the Rocky movies to me. >> Oh, explain. So I was trying to figure out why I like Rocky II so much. Like I told you, I like the movie. >> Yeah. >> There's a love it. It's one of my favorite ones. Five. >> It's not a hot take. So that's 28 minutes of the movie. >> I'm just a Rocky II or a Rocky I'm a Rocky II. >> So the two reasons why I like the movie so much. Number one, this movie plays like an HBO 24/7 episode. >> Yeah. >> So when you watch HBO 24/7, it's all slice of life. This is what I'm buying. These are the commercials that I'm going to. This is the life of a pro fighter. And then at the end of it, it's the fight. And this is how that movie really is. It's really not much plot happening. It's like a long HBO 24/7 movie. And then whereas Rocky stands alone as this, the original Rocky shot. Say he stands alone as this incredible dramatic achievement. This movie is kind of the actual beginning of the Rocky franchise as this being a sports action movie franchise. The first one is a very small drama. And it's more about, you know, the life of this guy, this big shot that he takes. But this movie is the movie where you're in this world and the world is forming for the lore of Rocky to deepen and become what it's going to become. And I like this version of it. The over the top super muscled us against the Russians. That's the Rocky that I like more than the understated version of it. >> What do you have CR? >> Yeah, I mean, I think that this movie for me, it makes a really good point that this is like the beginning of the Rocky saga and the Rocky franchise. What I like so much about Rocky too is that it is essentially a remastered version of Rocky. It's essentially a remake. I mean, you know, you start with, but I call it a remastered version because in the first 10 minutes are essentially the end of Rocky with some technical embellishments. I think they're using the same footage, but I believe that they ran it through some processing to make it look a little bit better. They did some insert shots. And then for the most part, beat for beat, the story is relatively the same. A guy who's down in his luck, who finds a girl, who finds a trainer, who finally finds the will to fight against impossible odds. And then everything for the last 30, 40 minutes is right out of Rocky 1, essentially in terms of like the training, the montage, the entrance to the fight, everything like that. You just have to have some different emotions going on there. So yeah, I think that this is an example of something I wish Hollywood almost would try more of, which is essentially the sequel that is just a remake. You know, it's interesting because I don't feel like, we talked about sequels before and rewatchables. Like somewhere in the late 70s into the early 80s, sequels became, oh, we should expanding. This is like a huge money opportunity, we should do this. This was like the most, the purest form of a sequel where that Rocky, the original one had a beginning, middle, and end and it was supposed to end. And then people loved the character and won the Oscar. And then everybody was kind of like, "Can this guy come back?" I just want to hang out with Rocky more. 'Cause I saw this in the theater. I remember with, there's another one I remember. I went with my best friend, Reese Gensere, Cleveland Circle. And it was the only-- - I've never heard Reese before. - What are these names? - Where'd Reese go? - What happened to Reese? - He was my best friend in first, second, third, fourth grade. - What do you do? - I don't know. - What do you do to do that? - I don't know for sure. - He switched schools and that was it. - All right. - So what happens? - Switch schools and there's no more Reese. - I mean, I'm sure he exists. So what is it up to? - I'm sure he's doing great, I don't know. - So Reese has never re-melted? - No, we exchanged emails a while again. - Okay. - Yeah, yeah. - What do you say? - I could've never talked about it. - Yeah, man, I knew it. - Reese is like, Reese is listening to a bunch of podcasts. - Yeah, he's like, "We saw Rocky two together." - Yeah, we just had a movie, we each had a good. - Okay. - But we saw this and it was the only time in my life. I remember, and I think I've talked about this before, the entire theater cheering, like it was a real sporting event. Like for real. - Oh, I bet. - And it was a lot of kids. And everybody just wanted Rocky to win. And people, it was like we were on close circuit watching like Leonard Hurns. So you're gonna make a. - No, go ahead. - This is Boston, all right. (all laughing) - Yeah, they want Rocky to win, they won it. They want Rocky to eat all the victory. And the double knockdown was in all time. - That's the game. - Oh my god, and they did a really good job of announcing, now it's a going, although they bent the rules. But it's like, whoever gets up first and you're just like, they set the stakes perfectly and everyone nuts when he won. Like nuts. - I gotta be honest, I'm not entirely sure. I think that I may have spent some of my, a significant part of my life thinking Rocky too was Rocky one. - Oh. - Do you know what I mean? Like I'm not sure if I even saw it. - They kind of merged together in a DJI movie. - You know what's funny? When we did Rocky one, when I rewatched it, I kept waiting for the scene where Mickey tells Rocky that he shouldn't fight Apollo. Because-- - His eye. - Because of his eye, because he's too slow. If I can get that shout out and you think about what Cree would do to you, he's going to hurt your permanent. But it's actually in the second movie. - Yeah, I think they do bleed together. They are one A and one B of one big movie in some way. - It's an interesting from a rewatchable standpoint. And there's a reason we waited to do it because, you know, when you see it the first time, second time, third time, but after 45, 50, almost 50 years of this movie, there's about an hour where you're like, I think I'm good. - Yeah, you know what I would call this. - The comma scenes 11 minutes. - This is only rewatchable. In the sense that if you do not know where it's going, it is unwatchable. Like if you are watching this for the first time or the first time in a really long time, you're like, holy shit. - Nothing's happened. - How many jobs is this guy gonna get fired from? - Yeah. - And then now Adrian's in a coma. - It feels like he's reading to her again. - It feels like a series of deleted scenes on YouTube. (laughing) It's like deleted scenes, right? - Right. - But it's the actual movie for 45 minutes. - But back to your point, it assumes that you care so deeply about the character. - Yeah. - Because if you don't, you just don't care about Adrian getting her part-time job at the pet shop back. - Yes. - It assumes a deep connection to the characters. And at the end, that's kind of why it works is because when he's holding that belt at the end of the movie, all of those feelings just come pouring out of you. - It's kind of brilliant how they do it. But I don't know how like rewatchably fun it is to watch his dignity. It just gets stripped away. - Yeah, watching him in the meat packing plant or getting rejected at the time. - Or how about when he's doing the. - Boxing gym. - Doing the boxing gym. - I have a big mucket for me too. Why? He's too famous to work as a trainer. Number one, or not even a trainer, I've been in a lot of boxing, Jim's all over the city and other cities. He just not would not be treated that way. Just no way. He would, they would not treat him like that. Like, up and feel sometimes that judo will come in, Donna Dragon Wilson will come in. This just doesn't matter. He would not, guys who have even had like five or 10 pro fights, you, you looked at us like a different species in a gym like that. And there are other pros in there. He just, they wouldn't, they would, in no way shape or form somebody that just went to war like that. What they have treated them that way. Well, the good news is that's not even one of the 10 most ridiculous things. - Including that he's blinded his right eye. - That's right. - And the record goes 15 rounds with Creed. This is a big movie for Stallone Ciar. Because between Rocky 1 and 2 comes out with Fist. - What was the last time you cranked out Fist? - I'm not sure I've ever seen Fist. - Yeah. The Sean even owned Fist on Blue Rag, you think? - On owned Fist. - Maybe Black Friday sale. And the Kino Lorber site, Sean's Grab and Fist, 78%. - If we should live call Sean and be like, do you own this on 4K? - Do you own 4K? - He definitely does. So Fist bombed. And then he directed and starred in Paradise Alley. Which seemed good on paper, but that also flopped. - Is that like a great depression kind of coming down to see that? - People are like, can you just be Rocky again? - Yeah. - But he uses that to his advantage. - Yes. - Right? So I mean, you tell the story of the making the film. - Yeah, I can do that quick. Complete the screenplay in '77. Calls it Rocky 2 Redemption. - Strong title. - I was supposed to get John Aveltson in a direct, but he's doing Saturday Night Fever. A good movie that we've done on the rewatch. - Aveltson later says he's like, I wasn't super pumped to just remake the same movie. - Yeah. - But it had conversations with Stallone about some interesting wrinkles that Rocky's character could go through that we can talk about later. - Stallone basically says, I have to direct or I'm not going to be involved. Studio breaks. $7 million dollar budget, he gets a lot of points. And it becomes the highest grossing sequel ever. It holds the record until Empire Strikes Back two years later or one year later. $7 million dollar budget makes $200.1 million and then is on cable for the next 48 years. This is about as good as it could be for him and sets up the 80s for him more importantly. Sets up Night Hawks, Victory, First Blood, Rambo, everything. He sets up the next 15 years of him being in a postlister because he proved people wanted to come back to see Stallone. It's interesting though, he's like a heavier. I don't know what happened between Rocky two and Victory basically two years later. But his face, you don't know what happened? - Well, I don't know whether he just like stopped eating bread or. - What do you think happened? - Well, he got thinner. You think he had surgery? - He's on steroids. But he's big. I think he was on steroids and one and two that. - Oh, but his body, better steroids. - 70 steroids, every ridiculous. Like the 70s make you water. - Well, he starts, he starts, he probably has more money has a different steroids he can get. He gets more into it and then things are changing along those fronts. But obviously by the time Rocky used steroids, our dragon did. - True. - Rocky for it. - Rocky was natural. - He's just lifting. - That's right, he's lifting Polly in the sled. - Mm-hmm. - But yeah, so he's, it's kind of a doughy or very 70s alone. - But the side is coming along. - About time three comes, he's like an action figure. He's like, nah, he's he may. - He's one of those people in Rocky one and two. You could have told me he was six four and I could have believed that he was a little kid. But he was really like what, five, seven and a half? - Yeah, small. - Casting, whatever. What do you think? Do you have a steroids take, correct? Rocky? - I don't know how, if he was on steroids, we were prepared for this. - We were prepared for this. - Yeah. - But he's 100 million percent on steroids in three and four. You can't look like that. - Four. - Yeah. - His whole body. - By the time we get the-- - He's like fully oiled up. - Yeah. - By the time we get the even first blow apart too. - Yeah. - It's obvious that he's, he's, he's training hard and he's still, he's on some. - He could be natural in one and two, maybe. - So the, the big con car to this movie, as it was on marathons forever and ever, was how good the last 28 minutes are. - Mm-hmm. - The moment, the moment we get, make going, - What do we wait for? - This is the best movie of all time. I might be the best run of a rewatchable movie. Every single moment is perfect. - It might be the best running in film history. - You know what? I'm running. - So shocked. - I'm so shocked at how moved I was rewatching it. - Yeah. - The scene just works. It's timeless, it's classic, just rocky running with all the kids. After all it is time, it should not be moving. But you want the guy to win. You want that guy to figure his life out. I still don't think I want him to be in Apollo. But he's running with the kids and the scene gets the whales out of you. - Oh my God. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I was the exact same age of those kids. And I think that might have been the coolest moment of my life to that point. Just the chance that kids my age got to run with Rocky, like broke your brain. It's like, oh, I'm so jealous of all 800 of these kids. Specifically the one, the one who turns into Carl Lewis for like two seconds trying to keep up with them. One of the great athletes in the history. - He runs right by my old little league field on the parkway there. - Oh, you showed me. - Yeah. - Show me where we're in Philly. - There's some controversial, how long he ran that we'll get into later. - Yes. - But that kid who keeps up with them. - I would also say his pace is unsustainable. - He's going sprinting. - I just thought about a young Bill in Boston, like stalking out joggers trying to run behind him. - Wishing that like Gordy Howell coming out of a story with a six cases of beer. - You're just playing and Phil Duffy and Rocky's running by. - And you're like, come on, let's join him. - And you're just, and he's got a hole in this jogging pack. - There's no ebred review of this movie. - But on TV, Cisco said he loved it and that he was looking forward to Rocky III that it is Cisco and ebred. - Ebred said, I really did enjoy it. - And he thought the sequels fight seemed was better. - But the big thing is he wrote a piece about watching this with my own. - Very cool. - Very cool piece. It's on the ebred site. I guess maybe that's why he didn't review it is because he wrote a feature. - Which is, I do write a lot of features. - That was a pretty unusual piece. It's a pretty famous ebred piece, and Ali had not gotten the tar being out of him by homes yet. So he was still wrote of a coherent. Some of the Ali highlights, he, you know, I've said identified with Apollo Creed. He said, Apollo sounds like me insulting the opponent of the press to get him psyched out. That's me exactly. He criticized the loans boxing. Says it's good acting. It's not boxing. And he points to a guy in training in the background says that guy in the red trunks back there. You can see he's a real fighter. This was interesting. He talked about he don't feel like fighting because his wife is sick. That's the truth. The same thing happened to me when I was in training camp during one of my divorces. You can't keep your mind on fighting when you're thinking about a woman. I don't know if this is true for your training. - For me, Jim. - Yeah. - It helps me to think about it. - It helps you. - Okay. - Different only fans models. - But he, there was. - He, right. - He says I have, I predict she's going to get well. And then Rocky is going to beat the hell out of Apollo Creed. That was a mid-movie, I'll leave prediction. He said there's no way Apollo could hang, could Rocky can hang with Apollo. He was jealous of master and disaster. And then he had this quote, for the black man to come out superior would be against all America's teachings. I have been so great in boxing they had to create an image like Rocky a white image on the screen to counteract my image in the ring. America has to have its white images no matter where it gets them. Jesus, Wonder Woman, Tarzan and Rocky. - Wonder Woman. - Wonder Woman. - How should he get thrown into it? I don't know. That was how they stayed. That was how they should be. - I don't know where they decided not to put that blurb on the poster. - Okay. - For my way. But those were his takes. So when you watch the movie, it is, you just blown away at how good of an athlete car weather is. It's ridiculous, right? Car weather moves like a fighter, throws punches like a fighter. He's. - He also looks like a fighter when he's just wearing a suit moving around his house and moving through life. Obviously, Rocky was going to win the spirit and then the non. I'm not giving up all of that stuff. That's what the movie is about. Like when you go back, that's kind of the deal you're making with the film is to like suspend the disbelief that Rocky could be any of the opponents that he's ever fought. I will say, I find Apollo Creed in this movie to be fascinating. - Well, he doesn't smile. I don't think once in the movie he's so angry. He, the scene, we'll talk about it later, but the scene where they're trying to convince him not to do this wherever. Everyone is completely afraid and he is so resolute. He's not angry at all. He's fixated on what he has to do. And him overcoming this and then falling short and not being able to do it, when Apollo slumps down and can't get up. Yeah, gutting. Just didn't have. Then raises the arm at the end. And then raises the arm at the end. Like just his entire perspective in the movie, the reading of the hate mail, all of that kind of an interesting look at the modern athlete and the kind of chances they take to protect their legacy. Like one of the first times a movie really did it that I could connect to. He's all wrong for us, baby. To beat that man and he just kept coming. He kept coming. Yeah, it's funny watching, knowing how the rest of the Rocky series goes. And he's so much fun in Rocky 3, Apollo Creed. There's no sign of that in Rocky 2. He just is like so fucking mad that Rocky must beat him. The hate mail makes him so mad. All he wants to do is destroy the guy. And he's just like this really angry, vindictive character in the Rocky 3 just. We also disagree. It's also like right at that moment where I feel like these guys are on camera, not just when they're competing, but when they're building up to fights or building up to any events. And so he's also like playing three different characters. Is the character in the ring, the character at home, and the character always just being filmed at press conferences and any kind of public appearances. And so he always has like these little shades to the way he's performing, whether's I mean, that's just incredible. It's funny. As a kid in the 70s, it never occurred to me what an Ali impersonation it was. 'Cause the only champ I really knew was Ali. So I just thought all champs acted like this. Sure. But now is the years past and you watch it. It's a very interesting Ali/Hollywood hybrid character. There's a lot of Ali in it, especially the way he cares him, the way he talks, like how the word to use is. Yeah, he's like a businessman, he's charismatic. He's like, we talked about this with the first movie too. It's an interesting juxtaposition because rock is really in the hood with criminals, with his homeboy sister. And Philly, where when you look at Crete, the singers around the garbage, the singers, what happened to that? The two-up. The two-up guys, you know, the warming and stuff. They just like to hang out on a nice coat, Thursday night, singing some two-up songs. Whatever you say to them, they go, but then like you walk by and tell them, think about how to humanize it. Walk by. Hey, give me a little Frankie Lyman. Okay, fellas. Yeah, one more like to see. That's a due box of the neighborhood. Show some respect. But then when you see Apollo, a group of guys and suits, a dedicated PR guy, that's giving him advice on how he's going to look like the villain. So polished, like so methodical that he is literally conning Rocky into taking this fight. Our entire narrative in the story, which is the second fight, is based upon Apollo's ego, fascinating character. Also, it's possible it created the whole, had a boy, somebody in a fighting you, and then the wrestling version of this that they just borrowed for the '80s, '90s and so on. Which is cool. It's a wrestling kind of other movies. It was in three, I guess. Yeah, it's a very professional wrestling type of, you've got to fight me. What do you come on? Let's go. All right, we're going to take a break. We have a lot going here with the categories. So we're going to take a break, come back with most of your actual scenes. This podcast is sponsored by PayPal. Let's talk holiday shopping. Make the most of your money with PayPal. They give you the flexibility to pay in four. No fees, no interest. So whether it's the must-have toy or a tiered cheeseboard, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday. Subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com/payinfour. PayPal Inc. NMLS 910457. All right, most rewatchable scene. You know, I get why they reran the last six minutes of Rocky 1 as a remaster. But for the Marathons, I always, really always bothered me. I used to write about this a lot. If they're doing a Rocky Marathon, you don't like it. I think it should just go right to them in the ambulance. So here's the thing, as a discrete experience though, if this movie doesn't have a fight in the beginning, there's no fighting for an hour and a half then. Yeah, true. And you would be, it's a tough watch if there's no action for an hour and a half. Rocky and Paul go to the hospital. The opening credits are the first rewatchable scene because they have the remastered Rocky theme song. Yeah. [MUSIC PLAYING] You guys don't want to think? Great timing. I'm with you. I just think you should be around the warning. Maybe you could be one of the guys. [MUSIC PLAYING] What made you hop for real house? Yeah, house kid next to it. There should be next to Frank's room. Reached back. I thought that song was really good. Could've gone badly. I liked that you had brain damage on C&E and then creed in the wheelchair, talking shit. Yeah. What do they add to end up at the same hospital and the same way at your own? Well, there's only like a couple of hospitals in Philadelphia that you would really go to. Anyway, I have that very small scene. Rocky taking the wheelchair over to Apollo, asking him if he gave him his best. It's a short one, but I like it. Rocky's marriage proposal. How's the Philadelphia zoo for UCR? Well, I was going to have a lot of good times there. That's an interesting call back to the first movie. I don't know if you remember that. Oh, no. Oh, the Caso's driver. Caso's driver says recharge like the zoo. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Returns like the zoo. And then they get back. They get engaged in the zoo. I'm not saying I endorsed the language, but I noted that they brought it. It was check off zoo, you know? This was a running joke with my buddy Gus and I all through the '80s. That one of us was going to propose it. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind marrying me too much. Classic line. I think when he invites the tiger, Rocky's just full brain brain damage for the first hour of this movie. Just doing that. Rocky filmed in a commercial brutal. This hurts. I think C.R. could have played the director. Yes, yeah. That would have been a good for a tour that can't deal with the incompetent talent. It's like fincher making him do 16. I can't read. I can't read. I can feel so bad for Rocky. Get out of here, sir. C.R. would you have bought Beast Aftershave? Yeah, for sure. If I was a young Philadelphia kid, just getting into puberty. What was the aftershave and-- Quavella? No, not that one. The one where they had different athletes to-- and you were supposed to act, the audience is going crazy. And then I'm talking about-- but they would-- you were supposed to be upstanding where you wore it. And the guys would come out-- Not on the face. Was it on the face? Yeah. Yeah, on the face. And they would have guys on the old-spice commercials and all that stuff. That's basically what he was doing, right? I quote, "Velva had the athletes with really, really attractive women." That was a campaign in the '80s. That was very effective. That's when Joe Montana met his wife. Oh. He married the aquavella lady. Oh, so he was like, I'm taking her home. Did he say-- Oh, it was good if you would try to get married to me. He took her to the Philadelphia zoo. [LAUGHTER] Mickey doing the finger test with rock is a great scene. Awesome to see. Yeah, that's what-- He taught you permanent. Heard you're permanent. Mickey is the angriest god as a man. Point minute, point minute, point minute, point minute. And then when he wants to work back in the gym, he's like, where's your dignity? It's just-- it's really good. And Rocks, I think Stallone does-- I think he has a really, a couple really, really good acting scenes in this. I think that's one of them. But you just feel like the guy's fucking lost his way. And it's not happening. Yeah, I mean, it's-- It's tough to be trapped in a movie with someone making bad mistakes because of brain damage, essentially, and also just like a lack of kind of imagination about what they could do with their life. And it's a kind of uncomfortable movie because for the second that they're like, you should invest in condominiums or you should sign with this talent agency or you should do this or you should do that. And watching him blow through his money and buy a house without going upstairs and all that stuff, it's just kind of like, this is like a pretty brave character to play because you don't get a lot of the hero moments until the last few minutes. And they must have really believed in the climax on a movie because everything is played. It's so understated. Yeah. There's hardly any, should I say, huge dramatic failures from Rocky. Rocky gets fired. Hey, we got to let you go. Yeah. Rocky, did you-- hey, I got to-- Hey, can I work the rest of the day? Can I work the rest of the day? Like, all of that stuff is just-- they're almost edging you to the big climax at the end. And sorry for that. But they almost get you to get you to-- I'm fucked up. They get you to the big climax that's going at the zero too. I like it. Yeah, it's great. Well, the guy who fires him at the meatpacking. Frank McCray. Frank McCray. That guy. 48 hours. Yeah, of course. Is it a point? That's right. I called him that. He's so good. That's my favorite angry sergeant performance in the seventies or eighties. Police mode. More than Inspector Todd. Yeah. Yeah, I like him one of the Inspector Todd. I like how furious he is of Jack Kates. Yeah. He's really just had it. Jack Kates really screwed up. Apollo pushes Duke for a rematch. And then Duke does the-- It's all wrong for us, baby. I saw you beat that man like I've never seen you beat. anyone. The man camp common. One of the greatest monologues in the sports movie. We don't need this kind of man in our life. Yeah. This is what they'll be saying about Drake May in January to my homes in Josh Allen. The man camp common. Let it go. This is when he's so good in the scene that Stallone must have fouled it away as like bring this guy back. When I kill Apollo and Rocky for this is going to be a really important lot of cabins in this guy because I know he can do it. Apollo calls out Rocky on TV all the way to Mickey coming over for the you mean the the must burger interview? Yeah, the must burger astonishing. I never asked you to stop being a woman. Don't ask me to stop being a man. And then Mickey shows up. I think we ought to knock his block off. Polly Vansley's favorite character movie history. Yeah. Really funny in the press conference. This really I came around to your way of thinking this this viewing. What was the most big the most big time fucking scumbag character I've ever seen. I wish he went out like or like Tommy and let's take guy to have in a movie like this. I don't I don't I mean he's not like I guess he causes he is a plague on these people's lots. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like causes his sister stresses her out into having huge premature labor here. Where do you have him versus Red Tidwell's brother? He said what was brother was basically fine. It was bad. The only doing he did. He said a couple of things that were off color. But Polly told you it doesn't like going over the middle. Shut up. And then she attacks. Polly legitimately caused a premature baby and then and it's always like you should knock her teeth out. And then advocates for domestic violence time after time. Any parable any breaks at the pinball machine. Which one did you get them the robot in? That's full. That's four. Yeah. Servo. Yeah. They did Stallone. I refused to watch it. But he recut Rocky four and apparently the robots out. I love the robot. When did he recut Rocky four? Oh, it's on Amazon. Who asked for that? It's alone. He's got nothing to do all day. Why take the robot out? The robot's always bothered him. He took all the footage. He shot and recutted it for movie. It's on Amazon. Yeah, I guess he has the King. All right. So we go through. Do we talk about the comb now? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's in this what you go ahead. Go ahead. It's 11 minutes of real time. Like think how long 11 minutes. I know how long 11 minutes is it's the same length as alley ladders dinner speech in the first episode. I was going to say that's like a fourth quarter like 17 play drives. Yes. With their like they've had the ball 11 minutes. That's how long she's in the coma. Rocky's in church. Rocky's reading to her. Rocky's in the hospital. Paul is there. It just goes on and on and on and on and on. But it does lead to she finally wakes up. He's like, yeah, I bet that fight. I just went, why don't you do one thing for me? And he like lights up and then Mick that's one of my favorite sports movie moments of all time. Yeah. Well, what are we waiting for? And then the music comes in. What are push up against the sunset? We're just like we are fucking back training montage. We catching the chickens. We doing a whole now. We know what's what I'm set up. Yeah. Is he the best jump angrily doing the jump rope finishing and then whipping the jump rope down? I think he's the code of beating up scrap metal. He is right. He is the training montage go. Well, this was this. I mean, there's a training montage in one. This is like takes it up nine levels. Training montage in four to again. That's just before it's 15 minutes of training montages in a row with like no dialogue. Um, this, this sets the template for what happens to me. So do you guys, you, I'll me ask you fight expert. Do you think how, how close to the fight is he engaging in this training montage and how long is he training for? Because I'm going to say this is like six weeks. Yeah, six weeks out. Yeah. Six weeks out. Yeah. Okay. Because they, they started. He had probably two or three weeks of uninspired training. Well, he's sitting around with Adrian for a long time. Right. So these probably six weeks out. I have a question for the group, including Craig. So we have the okay mother fucker award for the exact moment when the movie goes up and I had that which is named after Al Pacino and he okay, mother fucker. They're in the, that we're not watching them. They're watching us, um, LAPT police department. So we named that. That was a category of somebody suggested we just got made. I was watching it again the other day. Yeah. Do we change this award to the well, what do we wait for? Because technically, he's already up nine notches. It's not like he needed the bump. So it's kind of a miss. Yeah. And even though it was a great moment, but it's like, okay, mother fucker Al Pacino has already done the actual okay mother fucker moment of heat, which is by the time I get too feeling it will be rising. He'll probably leave a note right on the door. Like that's really when it jumps up. You get killed. What did you do? Yeah, I feel like we're already up. Give me what you got. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Poor guy. So I think I actually think we should change the word to the well, what are we waiting for? Because anyway, this movie actually, this is one of the same steroids. Yeah. It's in a coma. And then she says when you run through that, right? The movie is literally and figuratively in a coma. Yeah. And then it gets out. The coma is 11 minutes. The fight in the movie is only eight. Yeah. The coma is longer than the fight. Yeah, that would have been one of my notes if he did a screening for us. But I feel like he's just wandering around South Philly ghost town at night going to church and shit. It's so like oh my god. But from this point on, the movie makes use of all your emotions. All of them. Like the movie gives you this emotional euphoria of the run. Well, to be fair, it actually puts you in the in the head space of Rocky, which is like you're basically sitting around for 90 minutes. And then for 30 minutes, your heart explodes. A couple of things I love in the montage. I love when he's carrying the log. And he kind of loses it. It's like too heavy for him. And he drops it. And it seems like he's going to stop. And then he's like no, I got to keep going. And he picks it back up. And it's just like a good perseverance part. I personally just want to spin off movie of the guy who runs the scrappy art and make and rock. Or like can we come and hit this with hammers? Yeah, man, not so fast. Yeah, guys. I do fucking Rocky. Rocky. Rocky. You should out of a punny. Yeah. Can we give a shout out to Mickey's assistant, the black guy with like the. Yeah. Um, I don't know. He's got what's he's got ball, but he's got the hair on the sides. And Jefferson. He has no lines at all. But he's fucking awesome for like two minutes. He's doing the ball thing. He's punching him in the stomach. Yeah. Is that guy's Johnny? Cause he's in the gym earlier, right? We never get any scenes with him. There's another guy that I'm going to point out at some of the worst on screen box. And I've ever seen before in my life. Um, I don't think it's the same guy, but there's another. There's an extra in the background. I'll say this about the training montage. Well, there's two training montage. So we have that first one that ends with the chickens and I got speed. And then we have the running scene. The running. So I didn't, we're, I'm going to separate them because that's the next one I have. But like there's Rocky's training, but then there's Apollo's training and it's interesting kind of to go back and forth. Yeah. Because what the montage really does is underscore that Rocky is training in his neighborhood. He's training with his people. He's getting back to himself. Whereas Apollo's training is ego driven. Yeah. And focused on himself. It's dangerous for people. He's knocking people out without any concern for who they are. Bring me another one. Meanwhile, Rocky has all of these people helping him who love him and all of this stuff. It's clear they're fighting for different things. Rocky runs through Philly. Red jacket kid. It's an incredible job by him trying to keep up. There's some stuff. I guess we can do it now about how long he ran. Somebody tried to figure this out. It was 30 miles, right? It was 30.2 miles. If it went from where his South Philly house was all the way to the top of the art museum steps in the same day. 30.2 miles. Finish his row work. Yeah. Finish his day. Dead sprint. That is not a short sprint from where he starts at like the Rodan statue or the Rodan statue going up the art museum steps. It's got to be like 600 yards. I don't know. I'm not I'm not positive. But like he's running full out and then hits the steps and takes the steps with all the kids. Kids would be like falling down on the steps like like passed out. 12 did. Yeah. That would have been that would have been the the dark version of this movie. All like the kids dying the run. Yeah. One kid gets hit by a car. The big fight. The second round. Don't let up on this man. This man's dangerous. I'm dangerous. I love that everyone in the audience is getting ready for World War Three and Rocky going ain't going down anymore and then they play the t t t t t t t t t t. and you're like, okay, here we go. We're running the old movie back. So this is in the research. I don't know if this is true, but I watched it, and it might be true when they get ready for World War III and they're like pushing each other and have to be held back by the corner man. Apparently Stallone and Weathers were actually mad at each other because some punches landed and that was actual footage of them yelling at each other and having to be separated and Stallone liked it. So he kept it in the movie. - Smart. - I don't know if that's true 'cause this movie's been out for 47 years and as you know, I feel like some of the half-ass gets made up as the years pass. - Yeah, there's not a lot of lore about this movie. So that's really interesting. - Yeah. - Rounds 3 through 14 would be another rewatch one then the 15th round, the double KO. - What did you switch? - He switches in the 15th, but if you watch the movie, I feel like he's fighting South Pole half the time in the movie, so who knows? - He also gets punched in his right eye like 400 times. - Yeah. - Craig, what are your thoughts on the double KO? Just as a gimmick in a boxing movie. - The only thing that bothered me was Rocky doesn't get hit. I mean, he trips. - That trip. - That's the thing that that's the technical here? - That's a picking net. - Yeah, and it's like, it would be real to slip. He would be dead. Only Apollo actually had to get up. - Also, yeah, and it wouldn't be that hard for Rocky to get up after a trip compared to Apollo who was hit. - Well, it depends on how exhausted he is. - I guess, but it's not the same. - I mean, he did get punched over 2,500 times. (laughing) Couldn't see how to be the right, so I don't know. Maybe you could forget to stand up. - Rocky's speech at the end too. - Oh, man. - Then I could be born. This is the greatest day of my life. - Notice the wedding wasn't in there, so fuck that, right? - Yeah. - I'll ask you, you guys are married. So like, if you were to have like this, this like tremendous professional, I know the kids have to go in there, right? The kids have to go in there, but like, do you put like a sports enemy or something like that, like a head of the marriage? Where does the marriage fit? - It's greatest day of my life. - It's greatest day of your life. Would it be, if Rocky's talking-- - Number one, right, guys? - Yeah, number one, man. - I'm asking, can't be real, man. - It's like, top three with birds beating the Patriots in the Super Bowl, yeah. - Gotcha. But you're not gonna say, 'cause he calls. (laughing) He says, very clearly, oh, this is besides my kids being born, just the greatest. - But what's this kid being born one of the greatest days? 'Cause his wife was gonna die. - Miscarried and almost bled to death. - Right. - So, in a way, that was insult to her. - But he gets an error, he gets an error. - He didn't even see his son, the day his son was born, he refused to even see his son until she woke up. - Yeah, I'm sure the doctors at Penn Hospital are just like this fucking guy. - Well, the kid was like, I mean, an actual monkey. That kid had the most hair I've ever seen on a baby. - A little Jesus Christ. - That was the Italian-- (laughing) - I'm just keeping it real. - That kid had a lot of hair. - Whoa, a big careful there. - That kid had a lot of the kids though. - Oh, that kid actually is the most tall. - Yeah, wow, really. - Oh yeah, that was his first son. I've never seen a baby with more hair than that, ever. - It's not a newborn baby, probably like in the movie. - Probably like a baby in the movie. - The baby was pretty young though, but it's not a newborn baby. Baby had a lot of hair. What's your most re-watchable scene, Vin? It's, um, so you can't beat the fact that the 15th round of the fight is most re-watchable scene, but if I was gonna give a 1B, it's the conversation between rocking and dude. I'm not rocking dude between Apollo and dude. Like that scene is the scene that I'll wait for whenever I watch this move. Me, it's coming out of the coma. Well, what do we wait for in the training scene? - Training much attention. - Yeah, that's it. - What's the most 1979 thing about this movie? - I got one for this. - I got one too. - 9.5% mortgage rate. - I had that too. Buying a house in Philly for 16K with N.M. - Apparently the national average was 11, so I wonder if the bank was giving him a break. But this is-- - 9.5, it's fucking high. - I have this as what's actually Asia worse. It's like a UNI mortgageable to a Ford house. - Yeah. - That's what's pretty something to pre-age the worst. - I have my candidate for this is, when Rocky is training for the fight, he's sparring with a smaller, quicker fighter, and that fighter is Roberto Durin. - Yeah. - Roberto Durin. - A young Roberto Durin. A year before he beat Shigray Leonard and Montreal, in two years before Shigray Leonard and fucking disgraced him in New Orleans, made him quit, like a fucking loser. - Oh my God. - My gosh, you're not into him, you're not into Durin. - Well, Shigray's my guy. - And Shigray's hand, after Aliyah and Donald Trump, they hate each other. - He's a fucking asshole. - But I will say that Durin has knocked him out. - Is that no moss? - Yeah, no, he no moss them. - Durin has spent the entire '70s dominating at 135, one of the best fighters I've had way ever. - Yeah, by that time, he was ready to all read the legend. - Yeah, ready to hit him, fucking quit. And then her and his knocked him out. - You could point at me like you're gonna make me quit when Durin, I just don't like him. I didn't like that. It's a bad sport. - I thought he was one of the most colorful, interesting boxes that's ever lived, but yeah, in the '80s, it was the golden boy, Shigray Leonard against the hated Roberto Durin. - I was so mad when he lost the Durin fight. I saw that in a close circuit. - Just furious. - Boy, if you guys wanna be entertained. - Furious. - Watch the end of that fight. After Durin gets the decision over Leonard, look how crazy Durin is going. - He hated him. - He's looking at now. He's going nuts. - Leonard goes to touch gloves after the fight and Durin like does that sort of hit him? - Yeah, really? - Yeah, he's going crazy in Durin. - Well, Shigray was like the American popular guy or whatever. - Durin was like, you know, the hearts grabble, get it out the mud, and he felt like Shigray was actually not a tough fighter. - Fightable. - Was a creation of the boxing press and all that. - Yeah, he bullied him and actually fighting him versus boxing in the first fight. He called him a pussy basically for six straight months. - Talked about it. - He was so mad, he comes out and he tries to actually fight him for 15 rounds versus like boxing. - And then the second one, he was just, he was too quick-worn. Durin said he ate like a steak and that's why he quit. - And he fucking quick, 'cause Brave kicked his ass. - 1977. - Jesus. 1979 stuff, 15 round boxing fights, obviously. - Yeah, that's a good run. - 15 round boxing. - And like 80s, 87 early to mid 80s. They went to 12 rounds. And then actual hate mail. - Yeah. - Like getting hate mail. - I had to say what's age the best. - That like actual hate mail and reading hate mail rather than responding to tweets. - It's a lot of energy to write out a letter. - Deer Apollo. - Deer Apollo. - I'm fucking. - Deer. (laughing) - Seriously. - Oh, seriously. - That's right. - Oh, what? - Deer Roberto. - Yeah. - One more like yourself. - One more 1979 thing. - Fights. - Both on regular TV and in Philly. Nowadays we only have fights in places where people don't have human rights like Riyadh and Vegas. (burps) (laughing) - Vegas. - This is on. - Yeah. (laughing) - Riyadh and Vegas. - Vegas. - Okay, we don't get to get this out all the time, but the Steven Segal's shitting on himself a word for most unbelievable anecdote from the actual film shoot. This didn't come out till years later and I'm not positive, I believe it. But Rocky said to switch to fighting right handed was not in the script. It came about because of an accident on the set. When he was weightlifting with bodybuilder Franco Colombo. - Oh. - Remember him, the short guy from Pumping Iron. And he had a complete, almost complete tear of his left pectoral muscle. And they had to reattach it and he couldn't fight with his left hand so they'd do the switch thing. I'm not positive, I believe this. I watched a movie carefully to see if there was like scenes and stuff couldn't do it right handed. He uses his left arm the entire movie. And so Stallone claims this is true, but I'm not positive, I believe it. - If it is true, and assuming it is true, just for the sake of the argument, it's two major plot points that were basically like coverups for an injury in Stallone's case. And Tally Shire making a different movie. She had like a scheduling conflict, so that's why they did the coma. - I think the pector, I think it is true because the entire training montage, he's only doing one handed workouts. He's doing the one handed show. - That's right, Craig. - He's doing the one handed pull up. - Also, he's not using that hand. - That's a good point. - Yeah, so who knows? - And what C.R. said about Adrien was Tally Shire was filming Old Boyfriends, which was John Belish's in that movie, and could only film near the end. So that's why she didn't go to the fight. They had to film her scenes later. - Like months later, they shot her stuff. - What say it's the best? - You mentioned the zoo thing. The zoo called Back, got so striver. (laughs) Kaza, Rocky not wanting to invest in condominiums 'cause he never used them. - Characters going on spending sprees. - Yeah. - The movie's always good. - Yeah. - It was a real 70s 80s thing. - When you know they're fucking up. - Yeah. - Yeah. - It's like, yeah, I about get the new chance. - 37K took you a long way, though, back then, man. Get a car. - Car house, bunch of Rolexes. - Yeah. - The spectrum being filled with actual extras unlike the first fight. - Yes. - 'Cause the first fight they, we talked about that. They had to cut all these corners, and it's just dark. What else do you have for what say it's the best? I just. love Tony's monotone hype up speech to Apollo in the locker room. You're the man. You're number one, the champ, the best of all time. Girls love you, man. Old people love you. And I just imagine like, this is how Ben Johnson talks to Caleb Williams. Like you win, nail polish. You make plays off all structure, all platform. You got a 51% completion rate. Oh, damn. And also, at one point, Rocky is told that he's just going to be pumping gas in Jersey. You know, you can't pump your own gas in Jersey. So I used to make fun of Charlemagne because I'll be on the phone with him. And then he would stop. You'd be like, fill him up, fill it up. And he would be like, he would be like, fill it up. Like I did this for a long time. He'd be like, fill it up, like fill it up, whatever. And I'd be like, bruh, I mean, you can't pump your own gas. And then he goes, you can't do that in Jersey. You can't. I was like, what? He's like in Jersey. You can't pump your own gas. They got to pump it for you. The whole time I was getting my little jokes off. It was like a actual rule. It's true. Connecticut has parts in that too. But it's mostly somebody's pumping your gas. And when my mom moved here to LA, she couldn't believe that there weren't gas stations where they had the gas station attendance. It's definitely more of an East Coast thing. I've never been to a full service gas station that has somebody pump my gas. Ever in life. If you and Charlemagne did a rewatch most together, we ever get through the categories. Probably not. There would be several arguments. I think one of you would live halfway through. We go back and forth a lot. That's the nature of our friendship, though. It's like, you know, it'd be an interesting experiment. And the other would teach the best for a movie. Just the rocky lore and universe. Like when you watch this movie, you see all the ways that creed. This was the movie that creed really took more from like the running montage of kids, the training montages. You literally see the bones of creed and rocking to maybe more than you see in any other movie. But that's really age the best. And once again, I said, man, Carl Weathers is a phenomenal athlete. He's a phenomenal, he has fast hands. He moves well. He's got great feet. Great actor. He's just like a great actor like him in this movie. I could have done with I could have been up for a lot more Carl Weathers in this movie. That's my flex. It's the Sasha Jenkins award for the guy I can't believe is not a bigger star. Carl Weathers is so good. Like he's so funny. I mean, him going through happy Gilmore. Great comedic timing. He can just do so many things. I don't why did he not? Yeah, man. Are you an action Jackson guy? Fuck yeah. No, I've never seen action. No, bro. You're gonna. We're definitely. It's on the list for the next year. Can I interest you in peak peak woman. Peak. I can't tell you. The great thing about this movie is you can list two people here. I own that vote choices. I'm going vanity though. But Sharon Stone is well. I'm going vanity. It's like vanity and Sharon Stone at the peak. There's nothing more beautiful. We've we've discussed this before and rewatchables. I can't remember a movie. But I think with Kyle probably. But the fact that they didn't make five action Jackson's is unbelievable. Yeah. Everybody loved that movie. And then they would. But in general Craig, your point is correct. I'm telling you there's one thing. It's a really, really crowded space in the 80s in terms of action stars. It's the heyday of that action Jackson has all of the stuff that has him jumping full over cars. Him. It has bad Craig T. Nelson. I think he got a little pigeon hold by the Apollo character because the Rocky series was so famous. It's hard not to see him as a follow up. I think Danny Glover market corrected him a little bit. Because we know whether it's easily could have been a lethal weapon or a predator one. Yes. Glover predator two. But I can't tell you why though. I don't think that Carl Weathers would have been a good choice for lethal weapon. He's too physically intimidating. Yeah. Like in lethal weapon, you have to believe and this is something else that probably held him back. He's with a lot of people. He's supposed to be too old for this shit the entire time. Yeah. And he looks physically for that. You needed a every man. It looked like a race could kick his ass and that yeah. Wouldn't have looked like he almost got pigeon hold because of his physique and athleticism. Right. Do you know he was like an NFL player for like six, seven years. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Baby. RIP. Where's the piece man? Yeah. Very sad. Yeah. Carl Weathers, almost a unanimous approval rating, I think, from the general public. One of the all-time underrated actors. Just made every movie better that he was in. In the scenes that he was in, made every movie better. Have to die a lot for these other guys that get they shit off though. Piss. Yeah. Predators. Pretty bad. Predator had to die. Paula had to die. Happy Gilmore had to die. Stop killing them. Hey, boy, if I had my coofy right now. Hey, man. Stop killing these black men to exult your heroes. He's even funny and arrested people from their own guests. It's weird he never had like a sitcom. Like a, you know, everybody had a sitcom. He was in a rest of development briefly. Oh, that's right. But like in the late days where he's just like, he did does a career, swerve. All of a sudden he's got like a little family. He's like working in a law office or something. When, when Happy Gilmore came along, I was so excited to see him. Yeah. And he was hysterical. He is so good at it. Yeah. Be cool in a burger where I best use the food and drink. The meat's back. Oh, Jesus, sure. What, what else would you have? The police. No cone. Oh, okay. I got the snow cone in the fall. I got power move the spit bucket. Yeah. Is that a food or a drink? A drink. Great shot corridor. We're about cinematic shot. The little kids with Rocky or would you go? I actually had the, the first fight footage being projected against Mickey as he's talking to him about how he's gonna how they're gonna fight. And it's also Mickey early ball-nower, early tapehead, you know, going through the footage. Yeah. Trying to find the margins. He's like, or laughsky. He's like, shenanigans. Why do you have to protect the eye if you already can't see out of it? Yeah. I think he can see. I think that if he gets hit again, he's going to go blind. He's detaches right now or something like that. But he gets hit in that. I like 400 times in the fight. It's not even they, they just dropped out throughout the whole movie. They're talking as if Rocky is a human being. He's not. You can't. It's like Michael Myers. Can't do anything to kill him. Yeah. His eyesight gets better during the four laps. Yeah. We say keep cutting it. Keep cutting. It's gonna happen. It's where best needle dropped open and credits the ambulance riding the reports. Chess Rockwell. Not going to fly now over the training montage. Oh, that's good. Oh, that's probably. Yeah, you're probably right. With Frank's alone on mocks, right? It's probably a do-up band shot to them real quick. Yeah, the do-off guys. Yeah. Chess Rockwell, Brockliners, we're a best character name. Still Apollo Creed. I have a father Carmine though. And it's pretty good. Yeah. And then I got to throw this in today. The Nico Harrison award for worst decision. Later third in the West. Uh, uh, Apollo, Apollo demanding the Rackery match, but then fighting him in the spectrum. Well, he was saying anytime anywhere. He said, I'm a beat this man in front of his people in his town. Yeah. Fight him in Vegas. You don't need the Philly crowd. Come on, Apollo. You're supposed to be smart. Go to Vegas or re-add one of those things. I think he's doing it also in Philly so that he can't be accused of, uh, there'd be any fixing throwing going on. All right, we'll take a break. Come back with C.R.'s flex. All right, C.R. What do you got? Uh, well, I did actually have the okay motherfucker award for Adrian saying win, but I will off the top of my head do a reverse Mallory Rubin. Oh, did this movie need a better sex scene? It's more of a question. Do you think that's the one and only time Adrian and Rock have sex? Is on their marriage night. Now remember very chase. No, we did this. We did this. We did this in the first movie, right? Oh, did we remember in the first movie she became a little muskrat. Oh, that's right. A little mix. Yeah. That's right. He was trying to get to him. He brought her out of her shell. That's right. That's right. That's my take. Oh my god. It wasn't too many trips to the zoo for her empty house. No furniture. Yeah, every room, crissing in it. Remember because she, yeah. But so, yeah, you know, step that out. Clebber Lang. I can see that twinkle in her eye. Clebber Lang looked at it was like she needs a little bit something. Adrian has like a personality trades plan three and four, right? She's like a different woman. Three, she's, that's her best performance in the movie. And then four, she still does the thing that she does where she shakes her head and talks and looks at the ground and says the line. And I'm like, why don't you just communicate so this guy doesn't go out and get killed. And then five, she's dead. No, five, she's a lot. Five. Rocky Valboa. She's dead. Rocky Valboa. She's gone. Ben Taylor went to like five. The butcher's girlfriend Rocky five is a good man. Butch's girlfriend award for week link of the film. I went with one I had slightly brain damage Rocky beating a prepared motivated angry creed in the rematch was my pick. If you can't see out of his right eye, which is the jab, you've just creed. He had to bet up by a hundred points, sending into rounds. He was. And and Duke's like, you got it. All you have to do is just knock it. Yeah, it's a week link. Apollo did everything that you could do to win a five week Michael Myers. Yeah. But would you have for the week link? Well, two things. One, coma. Uh, and two, obviously, Gaza being in the movie and not having any impact on the plot shows up like three times, asks about the condos comes to the gym. Never really if he had not been in this film, it wouldn't have made a difference. And he's spinole so good. I just wish there have been some like mafia like we're trying to get you to throw the fight or something going on. Oh, that would have better than the coma. But there's a cool ass line where he goes, "Hey, remember that guy?" - Yeah. - I mean, he walks out. - Yeah. - I thought, but the movie needed-- - I feel like he's in the movie, but and like they just either cut his plot, or there was like a polyplot that they didn't use. There's something where he's in the film, but there's no story with him. - Yeah. - Maybe one more dimension for the movie. - You know what he gets though? A coveted spot in any big sports movie is the cutaway shot to the guy in the crowd. - Go get 'em, rock! - Yeah. - Yeah, the hook shot. - Vision Quest was the best one for this, 'cause there's four different people in the audience that they're just cutting to throughout it. Did you have a weak link, man? - No, no, no, no, I mean, Adrian, it's it. - What's Age the Worst? Polly just horrible, as always. We already talked about him. - Ollie said on Rocky's weightlifting, it's the worst thing a boxer can do. It tightens the muscles. A fighter never lifts weights, but it looks good in the movie. A fighter never lifts weights. - I'm not like, I'm not on that level. I mean, they live weights, but I just go in there, hit the bags, and then get in the ring, get my head beat up. - Adrian not going to the fight. So they have the kid six weeks of training. - Are you trying to say that Adrian like she carried out of the fight? - It's a bad job by her. Go to the fight. You're guys fighting, you might get killed in the ring. You're just gonna be watching TV. - Your attitude is about this really funny. - Come on, you watch this on a black and white TV in 1970, go to the fight. It's 15 minutes from your house. I have one really good woodstage to wear, so what do you guys, do you guys have anything? For a young couple buying a house that like age is pretty bad right now. Stick ball. Kids don't go outside to do anything besides protests right now. - It's true. - Did you. (laughing) Like the last time I saw a group of kids outside and there was no cough, it's been a lot. The character of Paulie, aged terribly. The scene where Rocky is hitting the heavy bag and Rocky's hitting the heavy bag, right? And Adrian comes down and says that she's gonna go back to work. - Yeah. - Basically she has to go back to work. - Part time at the pet store. - Part time at the pet store because Rocky's not making it any money. Then Rocky says, "Hey, go get dinner started." So he has no. - 70s were different, man. - Definitely, he has no income. She comes down, I gotta go back working part time at the pet store. He says, "Hey." - Doesn't he also say, but he's sort of like, I wanna support you kind of. - He doesn't want her to go back. - But I just don't know of the modern woman where she decides I have to go back into work to support the family. And then you can say. - How much is she making at that pet store? Anyway, can they make that mortgage? - 1500 for the property taxes. 'Cause that scene in 2025 would be different. Way different. - Nine and a half percent. - And the last one, I gotta say this. At 5426 in this movie, over Mickey's left shoulder. I don't know how you guys gonna put it. There is some terrible boxing by one of the extras. It was just, I mean, it looks crazy. And the only thing that's worse than the boxing by this extra is the hairline. And I have to show you this. This is one of the worst hairlines I've ever seen in anything that's ever, look at this. Look at that guy. Look at his hairline. Look at that. - Whoa, it's like a peninsula. - Yeah, it's got an entire peninsula. But when you see it, when you look at the actual time code, what the fuck is he doing back there? And then I was completely distracted. - I have, by what say the worst, my biggest one is that, I think Rocky, I think Stallone dials the brain damage up a little too high in this one. So I had my scale of brain damage for each way. - I actually have what age the worst too many characters in this movie on the Balboa side of things have little to no brain activity. (laughing) - It's just too many people just not being able to like communicate. - So it's not exactly Michael Clayton. - Brain damage from one to 10. - Rocky one, I think he's a four. Rocky two, he's like an eight and a half. Rocky three, he's back down to a two, recovered. Rocky four is a one. I mean, he's like, he could be running a record company. - I'm interested now. - Rocky five, he's a full 10. - He's a 1,000. - What happened to Rocky five? - I don't understand why he made Rocky five. - Oh. - Droggle scrambled his egg. - It's post-draggle. - Droggle is the now, he's a 1,000. - And you like this movie? - Love it. - Creed, I think he's about a five and a half, six. - Oh, he's back. - He's finding Creed. - He's running a small business. - See, to go have him lower. - Yeah, I have him at like a four and a three. - But literally in. - Creed, he's running a restaurant. You know how hard that is? Watch the bear. (laughing) - This ship literally in five. Tommy will ask him a question about boxing. Like, what should I do? Shall I drop my lift here? And Rocky will go, "Hey yogurt." And then the scene will end. - Like, he's like, he's like totally. - I think he's. - Stallone is this own, Rocky 5. - How's he? - Vince and I press that on, so. - Who directed 5? - I can't remember. - I think Stallone. - But Tommy Gunn is in that with John Averson. - Oh, he came back for 5. - Rocky losing his money. Just the whole thing with his son. - Oh, 5 is when Paulie loses all his money. - Paulie loses all his money. His son has to go back and filly, but Evil Kevin Connolly is in there. - That's right. - Yeah. - And his son has to learn how to bow up in the whole thing, the Don Kean character. I like it. It's crazy, but I like it. - The Don Kean character is probably the funniest part of that movie. - George Washington Duke. - Vento Miglia is in Balboa. - Yeah. - And then he's in Creed II. - He comes back in Creed II. - So John Averson, just as a quick aside, does Rocky and then is doing Saturday night fever and gets pulled off it, he gets fired. And then by the time we get to. Then he does Karate Kid II as a comeback, but he does back-to-back Karate Kid III, Rocky V. Back-to-back in the 80s whole 90s. - What a run. - What a run. - Karate Kid III, the funniest sports movie about the bad for all the wrong reasons. - The bad, Rocky V, Mike Barnes. - Yeah, that's right. - Really such an awful movie. Okay. The Ruff-Lohan Rubin and Partridge overacting word for the overacting, the commercial director. - Burgess. Burgess. - Burgess. - Yeah. - Wow. - What do you mean make the case, watch the movie. - What do you mean? - Every fucking scene, Mickey is going like, rock, rock, you know, like it's just, it's completely over the top. - Do we need to add Mickey to your characters? 'Cause we need to refresh to 2020. - We do. - Mickey from Rocky would be good to commenting on some of these movies. - I agree. I think Mickey is, you killed me today. I think you're, but that's the kind of, isn't that Mickey's whole deal though? - Yeah. - But like, he's really going for the sporting actor. - I'll explain it on it. He said the trainer would never be that, that on it, yelling at a boxer a little time. What do you have for a flex category, man? Top five, I may have my own. Top five unrealistic sports movie outcomes. - Okay. - So number five is Team Wolf. If you guys haven't seen the end of the Team Wolf, Scott, as the wolf, has gotten the team to the championship game. The team that featured-- - Are you really telling us standing in Team Wolf? - Let's make sure the audience knows. - Okay. - All right, Scott decides in the last scene, not to wolf up. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And they go out there and they win. Never fucking happening. I don't know if you guys have seen their power for it, but if you could be a mob like 45, they're just not gonna go out there and get a victory. It's not happening. - Number 23 puts up like a triple double up. - And Team Wolf. - What's number two? - Number four is the karate kid, part two. - Yeah, he's not beating that guy. - He's not going to Japan. - Okay, him winning the all-value tournament against Johnny is one thing. He goes to Japan and beats up the head of a karate gang. Saddo's karate gang, henchman, dude. He's not winning that. - He's not winning that with them stupid ass drums, so he's not doing that. That's not happening. - Daniel, son, this time that for points, for life. - For life, for life is not happening, right? - But it is. I go for it, man. - It's a quote, it's a new day. - So we should add Paparita to the cast of the characters. Have we done kid too yet? - I have. - It's terrible. - I don't think they've done it. - Although, I will say that one thing that is swank is three. - Swank is, no, swank is the next one. - The next one. - Swank is the next one. - Okay. - One thing I do like about these two movies having common is both karate kid, part two, and Rocky begin with the recap of the last movie. Number three, necessary roughness. Texas State takes beats a number one team in the country with a 34-year-old quarterback named Paul Blake, who hasn't played football in a long time. - Sure. - Now, at that time, we hadn't seen that, but you can see a 34-year-old quarterback playing in college football at time now. Number two, the little giants beating the cowboys. I just don't believe in it. - Yeah. - I think Spike is going crazy. I don't believe in icebox. I don't believe in anything that the little giants have going on. When you look at Spike, he's ready for war. He's gonna go out there and leave some corpses out there. - That's number two. - And Rocky's number one. - Rocky's number one. - Rocky winning the revenge. - Spies me. - You didn't go after Hoosiers or a bit. - Nah, 'cause Hoosiers, Hoosiers is, I can see it happening in Hoosiers. - Now Hoosiers would have played the team from across town. - It would. God. - It should have happened. - If Hoosiers would have played, if they'd have played like, with Hoosiers in Indiana, right? - Yeah. - If they'd have played like, W-E-B-Dawah High School in South Chicago, then they probably would have played. - Right. - But what they're playing is that's, you know. - So when I'd Rocky beating a motivate, - Not happening, Paul. - They could be. to fight 10 times. It's not not happening. And it really hasn't happened because people like to go say that Rocky is like Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano was a dog. Yeah, he beat everything. He was he was a dog. Tough, powerful, all of that. We had an honorable mention to your list fan for challengers, which ends into professional tennis players hugging at the net. Yeah. After doing falling and back and forth from two feet away, most intense matchup ever. I would add to your list, which I enjoyed, I like challenge. I like to do until that will be bad. Um, I'm trying to think there's one. So bad news bears breaking training. Okay. They had to cheat with the lineup to win those. So maybe technically, you know, but I think victory is the one. The uh, was sliced on the side. Oh, being Nazis. Yeah. Beating the Nazi team that's been practicing. And it's like they have this rag tag group of POWs. Michael Cain is like a pop L.A. And though it's fixed. The reps are in the bag. There's no way they tie that game. I don't think they lose like five to one. Something like that. Uh, to see our thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harris for how to stick word. This one left off the screen this time. And it basically is following up something Van mentioned in our opening segment. But I think inside is Salon. There are these two characters. There's his physical form. And he's like, I got to be an action movie star. I got to take juice. I got to be built up and I am Rocky. Right. I am synonymous. Rocky. And then there's the other person, which is the more sensitive storyteller, filmmaker, creative side. And if he had listened to that side, this movie would have been called Creed. And it would have been the godfather too of sports movies. Wow. And he would have made a movie about Creed dealing with the embarrassment and humiliation and shame of losing to this polluca. It's good. And what's he going to do when he's getting the mail and his wife won't have sex with him and and dukes like you, we got to do this or whatever. And it would have been awesome. It's in this movie. You see the four scenes with Carl Weathers. We're like, why can't we get 10 more of these scenes? It is the better perspective. I couldn't agree more. And if we had done that, and then we have one is Rocky, two is Creed, and three is three. And it's just about clubber laying and and and it goes or, you know, you even jumped to four basically and like have these guys together. But I thought it was just like, it's a great idea that never would have happened because everybody just wanted to see Rocky. I know, but I'm saying, you probably weren't like what I want to see as a young Vito Corleone. Oh, you're right. Yeah. From a movie standpoint, you're 100% right. That's more some movie. I just don't think that's why it's a great hot take. Thanks. I'm so happy to make it. Um, mine is that Rocky and Apollo's lives would have been much better if they swap lives. That's true. So Apollo needed some vanilla serenity, right? He needed a little muskrat, a little minx cat to jump on them and calm them down. That's what he needed. Somebody that like be cool and have to go back. And Rocky needed an alpha assistant. You know how she looks at him? He Apollo's up there. He's reading the hate mail. She's like, stop reading it, right? But Apollo, he came appreciate that. Rocky was okay. Cynthia. Like he would have been all right with it. If they were to swap lives, Apollo's wife wouldn't let him work in the gym. It's in carried bucket for these guys. Look at these guys over there. Those guys talking to you. She would have been the one to be like, Hey, talk to my man like that. You talking to Rocky Balboa, you polluca. So things would have been better for them. I thought that in the movie. I might Rocky needs some, you know what I'm saying? Rocky three wife spot wife right there probably already happened. Y'know how I feel. It's great. And it ties into my how to stake. Okay. So glad you brought up Apollo's wife. Apollo's wife, one of the best looking black women in the 1970s. Talk about it. Here's my list. Oh shit. Wait a second. I I knew you would love this for anybody. Yeah, this is it. Okay. This is the content you what? Yeah. Let's go. Best looking black women of the 1970s. Top. My list. How many how how many how many do you how many do you use this on the list? Seven seven. How big was the long list? Like how big was the pool for you? Now this was the seven. Okay. I don't think the list. I didn't go in with the number. Okay. I went with how I felt as a kid and how I feel now and tried to combine those two worlds. That's here. Diana Ross. Okay. Is she number one? Seven or one? No, no, no, I'm not. I'm not. Oh, you're not right. That's really sweet. Yeah. Um Diana Ross. Studio 54 Diana Ross. I like that late 70s Diana Ross. Beautiful. I'll at least third wave Veronica Porsche. Gorgeous. Was fucking outrageous. The best looking athlete wave of all time. Like next level beautiful. So beautiful that she goes to the hotter than Britney Holmes. He meets her. He meets her. He meets her. I mean, he meets her immediately gets divorced as he's trying to fight George Foreman. Yeah, not the best thing, but yeah, he's like, I gotta remember. She's gorgeous. Yeah. Lola Fulana. Classic. Always liked when she showed up on the loveboat and I always knew Isaac was getting and getting in in that episode of Psycho. This is gonna be good for Isaac. Thelma from Good Times. I've talked about her many times. One of the people career highlights was Rember and I getting a picture with her. That's four. That's four. That's four. Okay. Rember and I got a picture with her. You're making me a little nervous. Go ahead. Does the 14. Okay. Why am I making your nervous? I'm worried about some of you're looking out. I'm thinking about it too. Pam Greer. Thank you. Of course it has to be in there. Of course, Pam Greer is gonna be honest. I have to be in there. I can't trust you. Apollos wife Sylvia. I think her name is Sylvia Miles. Just an absolute smoke show Sylvia Meals. And then number one, Jane. In the running for best looking anything about time, but she was almost fucked up. I'm saying any era, like she could she could move into advance from the 70s into the all-time bracket. The type of lady that your father has just so I want to make sure you know about Jankin. I want to make sure you're up on her. Can I interest you in two people? Less than 70s. Just two people. We're all winners on this list. We all winners. Yeah. Cheryl Speed. What's wrong with that? Cheryl Speed. She's in I think she's in the mat. Love her. She's in the mat or she's in for a million with Carol's work. Carol Speed. Marilyn McCool thought about her. She didn't quite get there for me because she the 80s came along and like she willows would be things. She's solid gold that it a little solid gold. But in solid gold, that's my era of Marilyn McCool. Then I go back and I look at Marilyn McCool when she was in the fifth dimension. Oh, that's cool. Marilyn McCool in the fifth dimension. Like Marilyn McCool in the fifth gorgeous beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Yeah. Jane Kennedy levitated. I had to do the rankings Veronica. And it's probably the one beta. Jane Kennedy. Yeah. Jane Kennedy is otherworldly next level gorgeous. Just really, really important sports. Do you know Jane Kennedy is correct? So NFL, the first ever NFL pregame show and CBS. It's Brent Musberger. Irv Cross and Jane Kennedy. And I think Jane Kennedy followed Phyllis George. I'm off from Phyllis George. Initially, it's the three of them. Phyllis George marries John White Brown, the Kentucky Fred chicken guy buys the Celtics. They replace him with Jane Kennedy. And she's just everybody's in love with her from the moment she shows up. And I'm not, then she buried Leon Isaac Kennedy to start penitentiary penitentiary. Something's happened. Yeah, we won't talk about that. Casting what ifs. Could really find any except for Chuck Webner was offered the part of a trainer upon the addition. Like is he supposed to be because he was the real effort. Oh, yeah, he's the movie's based on him. Yeah, I mean, we're gonna make him like Mickey's assistant or something. Yeah, I think so. They deleted that character from the script. Best that guy award. So Joe Spanell. It's frankly, man. It's frankly, yeah. The statement created that guy though. I think he's a that guy. Yes, it's a 99% of the people listening to this podcast. He is okay. Fine. DM Waiters award. This is I got one must burger. Must burger is brain. Must burger blacks out. Road his own dialogue. Must burger went nuts. It's like, you're like, this is real. This is happening. He's like, one many reporters like this one standing next to you. Apollo would say. And he's just like, your title to your opinion. Yeah, I know why I'm doing. But you know, it's incredible scene. It is. Well, Frank, we have Frank Stallone. Get some do up with him. We get Rocky's commercial agent as possible. DM Waiters. Sure. Slinging out as the Beast aftershave is to go well. Stu Nehann got to mention him. And then I think Duke is eligible in this. Fuck no. He's only in like three scenes. Yeah, but he's in four movies. Yeah, it's not in a way. For DM Waiters, he can't. Well, then if that's the case, he's the DM Waiters of all law. No, because he's way. No, I like really good in this. If I was going to give it to anybody other than must burger, but must burger is just like, it makes this feel like more of a sporting event that the entire country cares about. Trying to think of who would be now. That would be the equivalent of a must burger being in this. Pat McAfee. Pat McAfee. Craig made a fucking face. I didn't mind you guys, you're a beast. - I'm going crazy. - I guess. >> It would be, it would be, McAfee has, like McAfee having- >> You don't think it would be like Joe Buck? >> I was gonna say Buck and Eggman. >> It could be Buck. >> It's Buck and Eggman. >> Oh yeah. >> Because you're covering like a serious part of it. >> Well, if it's fights, who does fight, I mean, it would be- >> Daniel Hollani. >> Or Callermann. >> But Brent was like legit on a show that like 20 million people watch before these NFL games- >> Yeah, Eggman is- >> It would have to be the most famous announcer now. I think it's Buck, probably, I guess it will be Buck. >> Recasting couch director, City, I would recast the commercial director with CR, and I would just use AI to make it work and just have CR put in a character. Back up choice, Al Pacino, just two minutes of Pacino. You did your flex category, right? >> Yeah. >> The other mini hot take is that Stallone is clearly a better movie runner than Tom Cruise. >> Oh, undoubtedly. He just is. >> Yeah. >> Tom, I actually- >> Yeah, it looks like he has wheels. >> It just looks more athletic, it looks more natural. Cruise is way too robotic and stiff with it. This feels, you can feel how difficult this is with Stallone. He's the best movie runner. >> Who do you think Stallone- who is your best movie runner ever? >> I did not come prepared for this. >> Because we know Cigal is the worst. I like to go back and watch the crud up and leto tape of the two pre-fantane movies just to see it. I haven't seen that in a while. >> I'm out. >> I gotta say, Cruise is pretty good in the firm. >> He is pretty good. >> He's running away from him. >> Very stiff. >> Some of the, some of his mission to possible running scenes are just fantastic. But there's also so much majesty in the way that it shot and issued them all at some point. >> Eddie Murphy, 48 hours, just subway, so it's pretty well. >> Rocky's sprint feels more like a sprint. It feels like he is truly like at 100 out of 100. And the cruise is sprint still feels a little bit reserved, like he kind of knows what he's doing. When Rocky sprints in this movie, you're like, this guy is running as fast as possible. >> The only problem is like Rocky 3, you know, weather's throws that sprint. >> Yeah. >> It's pretty clear. He eases up on the beach big time. >> Do you know who is an underrated movie runner? >> Who? >> Michael J. Fox. >> Oh, yeah. >> Back to the future. >> We'll be running. Getting up there. Marty's always running, trying to get some Michael J. Fox underrated runner. >> I think I was impressed with what little I saw of Austin Butler running and caught stealing. This is, keep your eye on him. I was one of the future, you know? >> Don Russ Reader, rookie, put him over here just in case. All right. We'll take one more break than we'll do half-ass. All right. Half-ass earned it. Research. Film is dedicated to Jane Oliver. That was Stallone's first agent. She died. Leroy Nieman's in this. He's drawing a picture of Apollo while he's training. The book that Rocky reads to Adrian for multiple excruciating scenes is the deputy sheriff of Comanche County by Edgar S. Burrows published in the 1940s. >> You're a big fan. >> You're a big Burrows guy. I know. >> Yeah. >> Can we talk about the fact that in this movie Rocky basically like learns to read? >> He actually seems pretty adept at reading. I mean, he's doing Zane Gray or Louis Lamore books later in the movies. >> I know, but is he, but it, so could Rocky not read or was he just brain-damaged? >> Well, it seems to me that like a secondary story in this movie is Rocky learning to read. >> Yeah. >> Which should be kind of big. >> He's not sounding out words. He's reading Edgar Rice Burrows. It's not like you're like a picture book. >> So I know, but why do we come back to him reading? >> I think it's Stallone being like just so you know I got some shit to me. >> Okay. >> I'm going to crank some Burrows in this scene. Estimated 800 school children used as extras for the Rocky running scene. Adrian's hospital room number was 669, which is considered an angel number. Did you guys know this? >> I didn't. >> Yeah. >> 669, so it is? >> Yeah. >> There's a novel published by Valentine in 1979 for Rocky 2 and Stallone is credited as the author. >> So if you got it, please reach out, I want to know about narrative told by Rocky. >> Except it's like written in Rocky's brain pattern. So it's apparently like, it's like settle down Faulkner. >> Yeah. >> Like flowers for Alginon type shit. >> Yeah. >> But when they write about, when he writes about Apollo, it's in the third person and it is normally written. >> And then Bert Young lost a lot of weight between the first and second film. In a comment, they put it in the movie. So when they're seen right after the fight, when they're in the hospital, they had to like pad him to make him seem fatter. Well, one of the guys, somebody says, you lost a lot of weight, like they addressed it. >> So what's Pauli's arc here? He, at the end of this, at the end of last, the word we can use. >> After one, after the fight, he's basically like, Rocky, get me your job of God so. And two scenes later is like a made man and is like lording over the docks, right? >> Yeah. >> He's basically, who's the guy and why, and why are season two? >> Ziggy? >> Frank Subaka. >> Frank Subaka. >> Yeah, Frank Subaka. >> He's basically Subaka. >> Yeah. >> And then, but he's also like, Rocky, you need to thank me for getting you a job at the meat packing plant, right? >> Right. >> I'm gonna ask for it. I hate this guy. >> Dick. >> By the fourth movie, he's just living in the guest room playing with the robot. >> And then getting Rocky guys. >> And it's so angry after he's ruined their lives. >> I know. >> It's so angry. What about me? What about me? >> How come no women for, is the possible Polly was either a sexual or gay? >> Could be. >> This might be why he was a matter of- >> I haven't seen the recut version of life before. >> I don't know. >> This might be so, you know, just don't on me. >> Okay, Polly. >> Polly's in love with Rocky. >> Oh. >> This just don't on me. So the reason why he treats Adrian like shit this entire time is because he's in the red with the rocket. >> Yeah. >> Polly's entire time was trying to get some of that Italian sausage, the entire, he's jealous. >> Or the alcohol has made him incompetent sexually, either way, couldn't get one up. Didn't have a bag or a back then. Apex Mountain. Stallone, no. >> No. >> No. >> No. >> But maybe Rocky III, Rocky IV- >> Definitely, definitely, definitely, the spectrum. Because we are coming off the back of Cross-Docs there. >> Cross-Docs there. >> Cross-Docs, bullies. >> Yeah. >> Doc, this- >> The original doc, the only doc. You also have some good wrestling back then too. >> Yeah. >> WWF, Big Hot Spot, Big Matches there in the spectrum. >> Mm-hm. >> Yeah, that's good. Spectrum, I like that. Filled up a zoo, definitely. Right? That's the most famous thing that's happened. >> I mean, there's some tigers and stuff there, but- >> Tally Shire, I'm going to say no. >> Godfather. >> Summer, Godfather 2/2. Rocky. >> Maybe even 3. >> She's good and 3. She's like one of the only redeeming- >> She's one of the only 3. >> Yeah. >> She's a redeeming quality of 3. >> Bert Young? >> I can't give him any credit for anything here. I'm sorry. >> I'm going to go mid 80s for Bert when he's in Miami Vice, Rocky IV and back to school with Rodney Dangerfield. >> Oh, that's a good year. >> That's a redeeming role for him. Like, what's the guy's name and back to school again? >> What's the character's, I can't believe I can't draw this. >> Anyway, but he's his muscle. >> Did you say apex mountain for- >> Thornton Mellon. >> Thornton Mellon, yeah. >> Did you say apex mountain for stolen? >> No. >> It's not. >> I don't know. >> It's not. >> It's got it. You got to go. >> He forces his way into the director's chair. >> He's got Rambo 2 and Rocky IV. >> I think first blow part 2 is, he's got like 2 of the top 3 movies in 1985. >> I just think by the letter of the law of what apex mountain is, which is obviously like a very clear and understandable concept, he forces his way into the director's chair for this sequel, gets points on it, makes $200 million with this movie, creates an iconic character and can pretty much, calls him shot from here. >> But if he's at the peak of his powers, it's mid 80s still long, right? He can do whatever he wants. >> Mid 80s still, and he could have been like, I have to find this idea. He's trapped in his own body, and he has to just make action movies like, it's not until a cop land that he truly gets out of that. >> You lost the vote, 2 to 1. >> Brent Musberger, yes. 1979 Brent. >> You're looking live. >> I mean, for me, I'm listening to Brent Musberger every Saturday for like a psych show. >> Yeah. >> So I would not be looking at this as Brent Musberger's apex. >> Just Brent. >> What the most famous Brent calls for Parker? >> Oh, you know what? Wait, was it not Brent Musberger? I mean-- >> Iron bull? >> No. >> What's his name? >> What's his girlfriend? >> What's his name? >> What's his name? >> Yeah. >> AJ McHarrion's girlfriend? >> Yeah. >> How can I not remember her name? Kate, Kathy. >> This is a huge moment. And he's-- that's kind of apex Brent Musberger, right? When he was being-- >> How about under the Tiger? >> That's the Tiger Rocky talk to him. >> Yeah. >> Have you ever topped us for Rocky 2, 11 minutes? >> Man. >> That's it. >> Million dollar baby? Still magnolious? That's just the last 10 minutes, right? >> That movie should be shot in the sun. Hate that movie. >> We may joke that out. Do you ever think-- We may-- Jomi had never seen it. >> Oh God. >> So-- >> Did you know anything about it? >> Didn't know anything about it. >> Yeah, that's like actually cruel. >> That's it. >> Jomi. >> Jomi did know anything about it. >> That's it. Jomi had never seen it. No, anything about it. We talked about it. And I'm like, "Hey, Chuck." It was like, "Jomi, go home and watch million dollar baby." And they report back to us. And he-- he texted me that night, all caps, what the fuck, you just can't see a comment. That is totally dark. And somehow that movie when they ask her, that happens like halfway through the movie. Not halfway, like maybe you've seen it. What was through? Yeah. What are you talking about when she dies? No, when she breaks her neck. Oh, yeah. Well, I can't remember. I thought she's ending. It's the last 50 minutes. Yeah, it's like three quarter of the way through something like that. I can't remember. Boxing movies, no, 1979 Pontiac Firebird Transams, yes. That was the apex. Cruiser Hanks for this movie. Who would have been a better Rocky? I'm almost like it's too bad that Cruz never did a boxing movie. Because you know, far away. Command considers it a boxing movie. It's true. Very local boxing right there. I'm going to say, Hanks. No, what? Hanks is rock. Yeah. It has. I can't do this. It's spitting for the welterweight title. Scorsese or Spielberg? I think Marty. Yeah. It's Marty. But I would like to see Spielberg's version. This big, expansive, like morality tale that he would make this into. But it's definitely Scorsese. What role would Philip Simorath and have played probably Mickey? Paulie. Yeah. Paulie would be a good boy. Yeah. Or a commercial director. Would he have for picket nets here? We've got over the ones that I had a lot of these. All right. I have some left. After the first fight, Rocky's definitely getting more than one commercial. I think sports illustrated's following him for a giant feature. And Gary Smith. I think people are just looking at Rocky. This has always been an issue with this franchise. So he's way more successful on popular after the first fight. So even when he loses his money, we've talked about this before. And five. And then he has to move back to the ghetto and feeling, right? It just doesn't make any sense. He is the greatest heavyweight of his generation. He just beat. But I thought he is casino, is that mix set up 10 easy fights for him so he wouldn't get hurt again. So like, is he really the greatest heavyweight or is he just get? He's beaten Clubber Lane. He wouldn't be the legend. Yeah. Yeah. Also, he has beaten the Soviets on the worldwide stage, like he has. He's beaten the Soviets on the worldwide stage. He got the Soviets to root for him. Yeah. He's signing autographs. He's doing the whole thing. Rocky is getting put. Rocky is not going to this fighter exists. This guy that continues to come back, my Tyson based upon the strength of his personal brand is fighter exists. He's not going broke. They make it seem like the fights a year after the last fight. So you're going, the early 77 Philly, right? He's going to Sixers Games that year. He's at the finals. He's going to hockey. He's like going around. He's getting invited to stuff. He probably, somebody owns like some cheese steak store or something that they, he probably has his name on a pizza place. Come to Rocky. I don't think it was the opportunities. I think the problem was him getting hoodwinked and not being able to deliver. I mean, he could have been in those commercials. He fucked up. I think Paul is running some sort of, he becomes the Maverick Carter for Rocky. He's like getting him, he does his version of Spring Hill. He's got a content company. Yeah. All kinds of things are happening for him. He would have like drive time radio show. Rocky. Rocky Balboa, Boxing Show. He's not doing one commercial and then working as the bucket guy in the gym. I didn't go back to work at this. It's not happening. It's not happening. Well, he's doing cameos and movies and all kinds of possible, understandable questions. But was the solution here for Rocky just to invest in condominiums? With that, it's been like a- And time to do it. Yeah. Mid-70s. Yeah. A pilot in fight for six months after the Rocky fight. How often do you guys box? I don't- Back then they're fighting every two, three months. Well, if you didn't have a chance, right? If you didn't have a chance to find the coach. I only fought like six times a year, not when he was in his- Not when he was really 75 to 70, 80, fought like 19 times. Huh. Interesting. Well, like- He's fighting shavers and fighting Norton again. Fight. Dwayne Bobbick. Like, he just kind of kept going. You know you're a guy and you want to read back- I didn't Tyson used to fight like twice a year. Yeah. Guys, follow that back. All the way up. Like, when you get to the point, twice a year is one thing. But when- No heavy weight of that, Ilk is fighting six times a year. It's also works because Apollo's obsessed with Rocky. Yeah. 'Cause they're like, "We can get you this guy. We can get you that guy." He's like, "I want Rocky." Um, Rocky chasing a chicken, the worst training idea I've ever in a sports movie. Like, what the fuck? Where's your home? Does that- Really? In homage to Rocky or just- I think- I think both. I feel like- That's how COVID could have started. Like a boxer chasing a chicken. That was ground zero. That's good. The alternative to lab leak. Yeah. What was going on in Philly that hundreds of kids were just hanging out outside. We just- That would feel like- We're a great sports team. What were they protesting? He's probably like a trash drinker. The reason they picked was that they would have stopped the fight once his eyes closed. And then the double knockdown we covered, Rocky falling would have been real to slip. And in real life, if both fighters get up, the fight just keeps going. If you both get up before the count of 10, we're going. Apollo state- It's not about beating your guy to getting up. Yeah. It's not a beating guy. Here's- Isn't that- Isn't that one of the most dramatic ways, maybe the most dramatic way, to end a boxing- Don't they have to get up in time before the last- To be the count, right? Yeah. But it's not that I got up before you, so I won. Right. Like one thing that boxing movies have a problem with a lot of times is how dramatic the Indian of the fight is. Some guy gets knocked out how dramatic can you make a knockout? It's because of the decision how dramatic is- But this is legitimately probably like the most dramatic way. Like double knockout, who's going to get up first? I have a small nitpick on Apollo's boxing. I've never seen anybody just take body shots like that. Well, don't neither of them defend very well. Right. The boss supposed to be the greatest fighter. Rocky's just like going to town. But Rocky's like hit me in the fucking eye that might fall out of my head the whole time. He's not defending his face at all. Put your elbows down. Try to block him. Here's my biggest nitpick though. So Adrian's in a coma for a while, like three weeks. You think Rocky would just get in something on the side? No tubes. She's lying in the bed. Oh, yeah. Did she just not connect it to anything? Right. She's going to the bathroom. Right. Is there food? Water? Anything? She's just like, "Yeah, I'm going to coma." Yeah. You're going to go see Adrian? Yeah. Let's go see him. Nothing. Nothing. That's just what coma's for, like, in 1979. Yeah. Okay. People were tougher. Sequel prequel, Prestige TV, Blackcaster, and Touchable. They've done all of this. Literally except for Prestige TV. Except for the literal Creed prequel. Yeah. Prestige TV might be coming. Did you hear Mike's got a show coming? Sat in the world of. Sat in the world of Creed. Might go be Jordan. Yeah. I don't think he's going to be in it. Or if he is, I think he's just going to be, Mike is now the Kevin Feige of the Creed Universe. It's got a Creed Universe coming. Interesting. Just need to get him an Oscar nomination. I think it's coming. It should. Do you think it's happening? Well, I don't know. Like, the year all of a sudden got super, super crowded. I still think that he deserves something. I'm going to be really mad if he doesn't get nominated. I think Autumn will get nominated, the cinematographer. I think Ryan will get nominated, and I'm really, I think will be awesome if Mike got nominated too. I think it was a great performance. I'm going to make it nominated. Train Dreams. Good movie. Did you see Train Dreams? It's fucking awesome. Good movie. Bill, you never cease to surprise me. Why wouldn't I have loved Train Dreams? I just wonder. I was great. Good movie. Good movie. See Train Dreams. Didn't you not like weapons? Like, I don't even know how to like. Weapons is fine. Okay. Train Dreams is awesome. I haven't seen it yet. That's the sing-sync, guys, right? Yeah. It's a great movie. Yeah. I had no idea it was going to be. A couple of people had told me it was good. Sean. I thought it was amazing. I'm just surprised that you liked it. Sean put me on the movie. Sean told me about it. That's called Jack like doing something like Train Dreams. It was good. You know, Sean had already seen it. He saw Train Dreams probably like 2021. So he had already seen the movie. So he goes, hey, man. Like, this is like one of those from a winter South. And it lived up to the height. It was great. Is Rocket 2 better with Wayne Jenkins. Danny Treo, Meddog, Russo Dorisburg, Buffalo, Bill Sim Jackson. You know, by our mail, Tony Rumbo, Chris Conzer, where they didn't play in view. Long legs or Wolf or Brimley. Oh, my. She doesn't even have tubes in her. She's just sleeping there. It's a Wednesday night in Philly. I feel like we need to do names. We've talked about this. Oh, you stopped in the middle. I was just doing Conzer. Conzer. Oh, Conzer. Yeah. You know, I'm going to win Jenkins. For this? Yeah. No. All right. We need new ones, but we should just thin out some of these. We're going to get new ones for 26. Can I give you a one that's on on the list? Yeah. Um, 2025 out Michaels doing the double knockdown scene. Okay. And Rocky's knockdown creed. They're both down. Whoever gets up before 10 seconds is going to win this. Oh, come on. You're one of the best in answers. Thank you. I need a little more. I just need a little more. New season. I'm going to say the time that this. It's not going to stay more. I know more is in there. A new season of the boys. Now streaming on Amazon. Prime video. Just yeah, I can get more excited they've had some good Thursday night games to share need a little more from out Just want to ask her who gets it Bill Conti What a great call. Yeah, I mean, I guess he's running back the same score from the first one Changed key in a couple of places Or Apollo's wife probably an answerable questions did Adrian Adrian's pet store ever have a customer. Nobody's ever in there What what could she possibly be making oh What is it? It's 19 it's like an exotic pet store in South Philadelphia Any pet or any that much bird feed Actually the only person that ever bought did did rock you not buy something in there? No, it's turtle, right? It's turtle or for his uh, but did he buy something for the dog to oh, yeah for what started him again Brutus for buckets Buckess it's like oh good Adrian's gonna be able to work part-time at our pet store with no customers It's a right across street from the boxing gym. What kind of foot traffic did they get? We mentioned gods are earlier the Mafia bookie gods or gods. Oh, yeah What happened to him before Rocky three? That's a great question is yeah, you think he got taken out in the like a it's high restaurant Hey, you know what you know what happened between Rocky three is what you're in eighty two eighty two This was a time when the Rico statutes came in this is the Irishman. This is the whole time They're fucking they fucking hope these guys got blown up at the docs one day. They blew up the chicken man in Philly last night Rocky, they say it's spring singular Rocky was a five to one underdog for this fight. They say would you have bet that? After the first five to one seems like pretty Tasty, I think sound I would have talked ourselves into that you would have parlayed it with some stupid though I would have done Rocky for the knockout. Let's do Rocky. But let's get the hard for the whalers here Pull him his blue jackets. That would have been so so it would have taken like a high favorite What piece of memorabilia wait, I just want to ask a one-aids unanswerable question. Yeah, does Rocky love boxing? No, not at all He well, so he's a club fighter. It's something that he is really good at because like he's trapped boxing feels yeah He's like this this body this mind, you know, I have a few gifts This is what I have to do, but I don't feel like he's ever like man I can't get back to wait to get back in the ring cuz I love it I don't know for a key had a lot of opportunities. Yeah, right But it's like asking like if If Murf loves going on walks like I just don't know if there's a lot going on Intellectually for Rocky. Well like what would Rocky's dream have been like I really love the theater I don't know he seems captivated by the old west, you know rocky didn't want the rematch with Apollo at all And you would think that he is the one that will want it more than anybody I think he wants an off-shop. I think Rocky love boxing. Well, so you have he just fucking walked around with a super ball Kacially would stop by the do-up guys. Maybe they had a good fire going What do you think he loved that getting dependent movies? That's really the only thing you talk about I love the Paulmas movies lately. They've been really good like what would he have? Get in love like the flyers We never did what we're Rocky. So yeah, I don't know couldn't drive Terrible driver presumably he knows a little bit about sports gambling cuz he's collecting for the mob, right? That's one of my favorite TV movie things when the guy can't drive and they park and they hit like the garbage cans. Right What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? I think it's the beast aftershave bottle for me. Okay, it's like very stealth, but I could put it like right behind CR Like right there right into the Patriot helmet just have the beast aftershave. I also like his fake Knows I think for the commercial that you take on an off that'd be fun to have and then the trunks Apollo shunks either yeah I will it looks gloves anything from the car to the car's fly. Yeah, there's no car machine that Rocky says he's gonna buy Paulie. Oh I miss having snow cones. They're really good. What when your coach Finstack or for best life lesson? Do you have one? Yeah, listen to your trainer. Don't listen to your ego. That's what we got Apollo. We got Apollo Like legitimately relegated to a co-star in Rocky's universe. Yeah, if he was too anxious, he was chasing it. He could have literally If he hadn't read it. Don't read your mentions. Yeah, don't read your hate mail. He could have literally let Rocky fade away into obscurity Yeah, nobody would have nobody would remember that and this the whole thing is about Apollo But it's about rocking now because Apollo chased it double feature tricks which you go one or three You know, I would go three just for variety because I feel like this is so close to one. I would do three because in the marathon The 28 minutes from two When then they would go to Rocky three the first like five 10 minutes of Rocky three which is like probably the best stretch on the history of the franchise Can I make a recommendation from the not Rocky universe or digs town? Oh, what a movie digs town honey Roy Palmer James Woods and Johnny Adam blu-ray. I'm sure he does Thanks can't for for KUHD What is the movie It's a boxing movie, but it's got Cuba good in junior oh Yeah, the guy from few good men they got from After the house question Like how how like literally then shout out to our men and women in service Brian Danny gets in the ring with them at the end And at the end he it is good glad he was good and he's punching and he puts his forehead down like that to make him hurt us. Yeah Glad I was good to glad I was my digs town double feature. Okay. Who won the movies to learn so always directed wrote it What do you got? I I think the Rocky franchise is really interesting because you get to witness in real time the transition from 70s Hollywood to 80s Hollywood Yeah, and you have like the first two movies are in the 70s and it's like the Gritty 70s in the next two in the 80s and it's like the glossy 80s the first two movies are two hours the next two movies are 90 minutes And I got to be honest. I think I like three and four like I it's like I don't love that that's my opinion But I'm like I can't I'm not I'm not sure I don't disagree. I'm not sure I don't agree with it. I think it's clear Yeah, that's why we did three and four first before we did one and two The end of these movies all of them are fantastic my dad and I watched this over Thanksgiving break And we like basically both fell asleep halfway through the movie But then by the time you get to the end we were like shadow boxing our way out of the living room Yeah, so it always delivers at the end, but it's a tough first 90 minutes. It is You could you tube kind of killed this movie for sure You could watch the montage you can watch the fight. You're like I'm good. I mean you too Did a lot of harm in many ways to movies. I feel like now you can like I talked to my two brothers in law and every big movie They're like oh, I just I saw the end of that movie on YouTube And I'm like fuck you are you even gonna watch it and like wow the there'll be blood like I the bowling I saw the bowling I was like well. It's like seriously. Oh, yeah, you just watch like the 20 best endings in movie history But you know throw that up on YouTube. You know, I'm so close going to hell syrup. I'm such an idiot that that makes me watch movies I like I got something that popped up in my algorithm that the whole YouTube video was about the way that cicario is written Like how yeah the actual a protagonist of cicario is Venetio del Toro's character But the whole script makes you think that it's Emily Blunt's character the whole time. Do you see in cicario? Yeah, hurt. It's hurting good things When we did a two for the money. Yeah, the other week that was pitched to me by Bill as here's your birthday movie And so I watched just like that style is supposed to work. I watched the whole video and then I the videos may like for me as long about the true hero of cicario whatever. Oh how cicario fools the audience I think it's a name of the video and then I went watch cicario like last night when I shouldn't be watching Doing higher learning stuff so that pops gonna suck today But like I went and I watched cicario watch the whole thing. It's just hard There's a lot of like TikTok that top 10 performances of the 21st century and you're watching like the climax Yeah, it's I slipped on some of the some of my favorites like I feel like it's been a while since I watched if you good men in full But how watched you can't handle the truths and you cut these guys loose like You know 300 times Well, I mean we have stuff like landman to watch now. That's true real art. Thanks to Craig Thanks to cow thanks to Eduardo. I don't do that top seven social We'll be back in the rewatch of us next week (upbeat music)