Robyn

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Good Hang. We have an incredible musical artist here today. We have Robin with us. And we're going to talk about so many things today. We're going to talk about her huge monster dance hits and how they continue to be relevant 15, 20 years later. We're going to talk about growing up in Sweden with very artistic parents. We're going to talk about how fun it is to be embarrassed. We're going to talk about how good it feels to lie on the floor. We're going to get into so many good things today. And we are very, very excited to have Robin. She's a supreme talent and a really cool, interesting person. And we're going to do thing we always like to do here at Good Hang. We're going to talk to somebody who knows our guest, who is friends with our guest or a fan of our guests. And they're going to give us a good question to ask our guest. And we have another Swedish uber talent, the incredible, beautiful, funny and super, super talented Zara Larson here today. So Zara, we are talking to you, I believe, from a very fancy beach. At least that's what your background looks like. So, hi! This episode is brought to you by Hilton. Imagine you're in a paradise carved into a cliffside. The wind's doing something incredible to your hair. Now you're navigating a five-course tasting menu in a 500,000-year-old lava tunnel. And you're thinking, am I dreaming? Or is this Hilton? Lucky for you, it's Hilton. Discover there are new ways to stay with thousands of the most unique hotels in the world, from Curio Collection by Hilton to Waldorf Astoria Hotels and Resorts. Hilton, for this day. I appeared at the beach. Zara is got a background of a beautiful palm tree. And look at you. And I put this, I put this blazer on for you. So, I'm kind of wondering, I'm backing out to show to show what it looks like. Incredible. Dunning. Zara, I'm so impressed because you are not only an incredible musician and performer, but you dance hard through all of your songs. I mean, that is not easy. Like the breath control alone of having to move and not be out of breath. Yeah, no, it's true. I feel like it's such a big part of my show and what I do because I love, how do you make it stop me in and out? Okay, what's happening right now for people that are listening, which is amazing. We might need to keep it because this proves my point that you never stop moving. But right now, the zoom is zooming in and out and it's taking Zara closer to the water. Yeah. And it looks like the waves are taking you in and out. Beautiful. Okay, okay, okay, okay, we got it. I just don't want to get distracted by it. But I've been moving. I have been moving. Oh, I don't. I've been moving a lot. I really have physically like onstage and in the world. But it's a big part of who I am as a person and as an artist growing up, like Beyonce, it was just my biggest inspiration and idol and still is. And I think also growing up, I did so much dancing. I went to the Royal Swedish ballet school. I took all these like classes after school and I feel like it's an amazing way just like singing to express yourself. And I think like singing, dancing is something that everyone should be doing. It doesn't matter if you're really, really good at it or not, it just feels so good and it makes you happy. So even if I'm sad one day or feel a bit anxious, I know when I have finished my show or even two songs in, I just, I just know I will have a good time after the show is wrapped because I will have moved my body. I will have been singing for an hour and a half and my spirit is just lifted. Yes, I so feel you. I mean, this is kind of strange to hear from somebody who hosts a podcast, but I would much rather dance than talk. Yeah, we can do both. I do feel though that like moving and dancing expels us to your point, like any, any anxious energy. It helps get rid of it in a way that few things do. Yeah. And especially when you do it together with people, it's something to that. That's why having concerts, performing live is so powerful. It's my favorite thing in the whole world to do because it just literally brings people together and it just makes you feel like very human. Like everyone's connected. Well, you do that in your shows. You make sure that people feel like the audience feels like they're part of your show. You bring people up a lot, right? I do. I think that's such an important part of my show. It's my favorite part. And you never really know what's going to happen because everyone have, you know, different personalities and they bring something different. And that's what's fun about it. And I think also I had, I think one of my favorite shows that I've ever done was this summer. And it was this festival. And everyone just started lifting up their friends because I have one dance mood where my dancers lift me up in the air. So when I did that song, I do my song "The Night Sun," I do it twice. So when I did this song again, by the end of my set, it was, it was hundreds of people in the air lifted up by their friends. And I just couldn't believe my eyes. Like I just couldn't believe what I was seeing. By the way, thank you for playing "The Night Sun" twice because I, when I go to a show, I really want to hear the hits. And I want to hear them more than once. And especially at festivals. Because I'm like, you know how it is. You go and see someone that you really want to see. And then you're like, oh, shoot. I missed the first three songs of this set that I wanted to see. And I'm like, so worried. I got you. Yeah, we're going to come back around. And you're all going to lift up your friends. Well, we're talking to somebody today who I can imagine is a huge influence on you. And, and, and speaking of hits, like has so many. And I know it's crazy. I can't wait to talk to Robin. And I know she's going to be thrilled that we talk first. When did you first meet Robin? I first met her at a dinner in Sweden. And it was really chill. We did us next to each other, unfortunately. But I remember I wanted to go in for a hug. But this was peak COVID times. And she was like, oh, but also she was going through her IVF journey. And I didn't know that at this point. So I was like, oh, she was serious about that. But she was actually very nice. She was very sweet. And I didn't get to hug her. But then I got to hug her again when I met her. And we did our song, or her song that I joined, talked to me. And I needed the remakes for my song, Pizz Pizz. And she is just so lovely and sweet. And you're right. She's been a part of my life for as long as I can remember. She's had hits in every decade and on every album that she ever released. And she's been such a big inspiration. Probably the biggest inspiration, especially from someone coming from Sweden and wanting to be a pop star. Because she really embodied that solo artist, cool, tough girl, pop star. Always herself, very unapologetic, had amazing songs. I feel like I'm kind of in this updo that I'm wearing right now with the little side bang. I feel like it's giving like early era Robin. You're right. It looks like the shaved side. Yeah. And the fact that she wore a hoodie in her videos, it was like, she doesn't care that much about the male gaze. No, I love that. We had a shoot together not too long ago. And she was sitting like in a skirt legs wide, like just spreading. And they were like, excuse me. We can see your panties. She was like, yeah, that's the point. And it wasn't because of the like a sexy gaze or that she wanted to, you know, like look at my panties. It was like, yeah, I know. And I'm taking up space. And you can see my panties and so what. I was just like, oh, that's cool. Like she's just so cool. She's very, she just embodies in a way, like what it means to be a woman to me also because she's though assured. And maybe it's not, you know, I don't know what's going on in her head. But what she exudes is this confidence and this, like security in who she is and what she wants to say. And I find that so inspiring. So Robin is going to be coming in. And I was wondering if you have a question that you think I could ask her. I have so many questions. But I was thinking a lot about the fact that she's been doing this for her whole life, like the big majority of her life. I wonder because sometimes I feel like what's going to inspire me when I'm older because I hope to do this forever because it's a part of who I am. So I wanted to know when she makes an album. Does she just make the next album because it's who she is and the fact that she has been doing it? So it's sort of automatic. Or does she do anything specifically to make her stay and feel inspired? That's a great question because she does have some big spaces between records like eight years. It's so true. Sometimes you're like, I'm ready to make something because I have an idea or like it's time to make something let me be inspired just by going and doing it. It's a good question. Like because I feel like I get inspired by doing it but also to be honest in my life I have never not worked and released music all the time. And actually when I did have a break for four years between an album but that was like I was really going through it and I didn't really feel good. Not putting out music and it sort of stopped me. So now I'm going to try this thing of actually very intentionally be inspired. Like after this tour is done I'm going to take some time off and I'm going to go and live my life and be inspired. I'm going to watch things. I'm going to travel to have things in my life that I can then write about but I've really done that. And I wonder if she does it like intentionally or if she just sort of like lives her life and then goes into the studio and and creates these songs and that's what inspires her. Because I also know she's working with the same people wherever. So is that something that's like inspiring and fun and nice because they know her so well or it's at a hard because how do you evolve in that? Great question and such a question that an artist would ask another artist like what is your process? Yeah. And then she's and then Zara just gets sucked into the ocean. What I wish in your background which is palm trees and ocean I wish at one point like a giant bird would come down and like and pick you up and take that's how you'd get off the zoom. That's such a good question and I think she'll love it and you know I just have to say you know you are such an inspiration for so many people watching us are and there's people like young women and men not only in Sweden but all over watching you and I'm sure that 20 years from now they'll be asking you the same question how are you still making stuff that resonates with us but congratulations on just so so much great deserve success you're very loved and we love you here. I love you right back. Thank you so much for doing this. Have the best conversation or Robin you're amazing and I hope to see you again soon. Hopefully we can get you into the studio and we'll recreate that background for you so you'll feel comfortable. Okay thank you so much. Tis the season for giving for calling for cheer texting and calling loved ones straight through the new year but who can keep up with this daunting feat visible wireless the plan to meet this season switch to visible the ultimate wireless hack with unlimited 5G data and hotspot to match with plans starting at just $19 a month a rate that is guaranteed for a year it's the gift that keeps on giving now that's holiday to use promo code holiday hack $19 a month for service on the visible plan terms apply see visible dot com for planned features and network management details. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad I'm here. Thank you for coming. I've been listening to your podcast all weekend. It's so much fun to listen to well Martin short is my dream man so that I've listened to that. Get in line. Robin is he's everybody's dream man. I know and let's talk about Martin short for a second. Let's talk about him. What do you love about Martin short? That he just like he that he's up to something and it's like this thing in his ass like yeah is he trolling you like what is he doing and he's always been that way yeah and there's not a lot of people that do there's a few but he's like maybe that my yeah my favorite one just that you don't really know what he's thinking and then when you do get to find out how he feels about things you understand he's a very kind person yes and I think the combination of that that there's like a darkness there you know but it lands always like in a kind heart or something totally he's like a trickster but he doesn't see he's not a mean person no but he goes for it yes he's so funny yeah did you meet him when you were at did you the last time I saw you we were meeting for the first time Robin is here everybody yeah we're meeting for the first time but I feel like I you know like most people I feel like I know you even though I don't but I got to see you in person last time at the SNL 50th which you know the big music show you performed who did you perform with and what is it David burn yeah yeah and how did that come together well David asked me wow because he was asked to perform and he wanted to do it with me like what like I don't know what he was thinking but that's how he felt and he asked me to do dancing on my own with him so it was his idea did you had you met before ever performed together before no we have mutual friends but never met in person I just grew up with his music and so I brought my mom as well because she's such a fan yeah it was a very full circle moment you performed at SNL back in like 2011 yes and what was that like that time and how was it different than being on stage with David burn in a completely different way like it's a that's it feels a yesterday 2011 but it's not yeah no I just look back at that time as a very specific experience because I've been I've been working so hard for like 12 12 15 years just working working working yeah I started so young and I think when you are at that speed and that age with all that like all that time kind of in your back and you you get to this point where you you can trust your intuition and that's how I that's how I wrote dancing on my own very much it not all songs come that way but dancing on my own was very direct took a short time to write it and it just that song just meant so much to my career whatever and I think doing SNL was one of those like things I look back on I just can't believe you know that all that happened yeah yeah I mean I want to talk to you about your music all of your music but but specifically when you mentioned dancing on my own I think about that viral video in New York did you ever see it in the subway so for people who hadn't seen it it's after one of your shows and it's in New York subway and it's people packed in and everybody starts singing and it's like such an incredible moment because it really also I think highlights what what your music does your music really brings people together they feel very seen by it they feel very connected to each other yeah and that was such an incredible moment it was because I saw it on the news I saw it on like the local New York channel the day after and I didn't even know it had happened I didn't know it had happened so I turned on the TV and I just saw people singing that's my own and in the subway on the local channel which was really cool yeah on TV you know I felt like very old school like yes oh I'm on TV you know listening there used to be this thing called TV yeah if you remember it was in a box yeah I mean even then I thought it was like unusual but I think now it's definitely and just very real moment I thought also when people come together in in real life like they were there together in the subway and it happens spontaneously yes it's a beautiful thing so that's so unusual for even people to be in crowds anymore like it's and like clubs and concerts are still places where people gather and I know and learning about you like I know those places have always been very important to you yeah I grew up with people that worked my parents were in theater and so I grew up with you know this community of people doing things together building things together her saying you know big children pretending to be grown-ups and I always I was brought up in you know in that belief system that that's how things happen so yeah for me it's always been important I love hearing about your parents reading about your parents Gia tolantino wrote a great article in the New Yorker and we learned a lot about your family and you're two you're the daughter you're the daughter of two really interesting artists yeah and and you and and you grew up in like a very your dad ran an independent theater company yeah together with my mom yeah and the both of them came and you kind of were on the road with them yes did you perform in shows with them no I did they did a data is poetry evening that was like their biggest hit at the end before before the whole theater collapsed and it started with my mom and five other actors to just picking their noses and oh my god the only thing that I ever got to do in the theater was to hand out the you know the program yeah in that particular and did it was there anyone ever in the audience that was like this was ridiculous I mean I think that was actually their hit I think a lot of a lot of other things they did were much weirder and really like what I mean they were really into you know the Russian theater tradition so they they did these very nerdy things like they re-created Stanislavsky's like or in a sense of mayor holds It's like biomechanic choreography that he used to do for the parades. In that New York article, I love the story about your brother dancing and then morning to have an office job and then your parents were like begging him to not have an office job. Yeah. They had an intervention with him and they were like, "You're going to be unhappy. We don't think you should do this." What? You need to money for retirement? That's not important in life. We're worried about you. Don't take this job. Did he take it? And is he still a dancer? He didn't take it. Did he stay with dancing? Did he? No, because what's smart about what he did was that he dancers were tired so early. And he was like, "I'm not going to retire when I'm 45. I better do it now." Because he was like 35. So he got an education and now he's choreographing video games. Wow. Yeah. That's cool. It is cool. Like, you know, one of the things I wanted to talk to you about today, because I feel like you have, like you said, you have been in the business for a long time. Me too. I know. And me too. And I feel like women like us, I'm going to keep comparing us today, but no, but like I think it like there's something very exciting about realizing that the work and creativity doesn't stop. It just changes. But there's a lot of stuff you learn along the way. And I, first of all, I cannot believe Robin when I was, when I was learning about you, that you started so young, because when we met you, you already felt very self-possessed. There was a feeling that you were in control of how you presented yourself to us. I was not. But I'm afraid you crossed that way. Okay. I think I was just young and very self-confident in a way, but then also insecure in a lot of other ways. Yeah. Yeah. But we felt this confidence. And you're right. I mean, we were probably projecting, but I just remember, you were, you are then and remain unusual in a business that really does, you know, sometimes two people, especially women up and split them out, you really stood for and, like, hung in at a time when it was not easy to do that. That's such a compliment. Thank you. For saying that. You really kept checking in with yourself and being like, do I want to do this, do I want to wear this? It's true. No, I do. And I did. And I think that's really because of my mom. And I think it's because of my parents and that they kind of just protected me. They gave me this, like, spell, you know, that I was exposed to all these other things I had nothing to do with commercial interests when I was younger. And so that was like what I, you know, I was like, okay, cool, let's go tour in America, play for some people. Like, you know, I thought it was like what I was going to, what I did with my parents, you know, like, we're in like a Volkswagen bus, like, staying our friends houses, like, playing it, like, theater festivals in Europe. And I was on tour with like, Backstreet Boys and Destiny's Child and like doing radio shows in like big stadiums with, you know, it was just nothing, like the words, the words were very separate. And I was so naive, like, I didn't realize what I was getting into, which I think was great, you know, in a sense, all those radio, no offense to, well, a little offense to back then to those radio guys there. And it was mostly meant. They were vicious. Yeah. I can remember in my early career, having to do radio thing, and it was like, that would not fly. Totally, they were weird and creepy and ill and formed and like mean, and they'd make you do pranks. Yes. They did. You do. Save weird things. Just kind of like, you know, make you look stupid. Yes. They were like, they had a hand-reviewed piece of paper to say this weird thing and be like, what does this mean? You don't worry about it. You're not my big brother. Like, all the kids would do to you when you were in school or something. Yeah. So like a very weird culture. Yeah, it's, and for a young person being thrown in there, it was intense. And also a new culture, like a country that I obviously, you know, was so interested in or the culture that I grew up, or the music I listened to was from here. But it was still something, I was still lost in translation. Yeah. And it's even easier to, when you kind of recognize the culture, but it's so, so different. Yeah. It's sort of like signalling that I had to get through, but also how happy I am that it happened, and that I got to do all those things so early, and then kind of break it down and realize what it was that I wanted to keep and what I, what I didn't want at all. Yeah. Well, for people who don't know, I mean, you grew up in Sweden, you came over to tour. And you know what I found out about you that was so great. I was listening to you on Las Cultures, just I love those boys. Men, men, men, men, men, men, and grown, grown, grown men. Yeah. I love that you love Nina Cherry. Yes. Do you like Nina Cherry? Okay. Okay. Love. Tell me. And I didn't know she was Swedish. I learned from you. Yeah. And I've been listening to her for 50 years, basically. I mean, in my 50th birthday Buffalo Stance was like my song. So good. I'd listen to it right now. Yeah. And I was listening to you on Las Cultures and I said, are you, I did no idea that it was Swedish. No, she's, she's really Swedish. I think for people who don't remember Nina Cherry, how, how and let's talk about Buffalo Stance for a second. I think her other last name is Carlson, like me, that's right. And her mom is Swedish and her dad is African. And then her stepdad was a beautiful jazz musician called Don Cherry. And that's how she got her last name. She grew up in Sweden and in London and in New York and you know, she, she was all over the place. She was just the cool, I'm sorry, I got to get rid of my commercials. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard. Look how cool she is. It's, it's too much. Jigbelow. Her. Stuck her. Hey. I mean, she, I see, I can see how she was an influence because your music is like that. It's like there's no rules to where it's going to go. No, and she's having fun and there was this, you know, just like chaos of influences. Yes. And the fact that she was Swedish was just like mind blowing to me. Yeah. I mean, there's a feeling about like her music that, and your music, where it's, and your career in general, Robin, which is that you are like, I'm going to be, I'm going to be an example of somebody who's doing what I like, and I hope you like it. Yes. No, it's so true. It's so true. I think, I think that's how it works. But I think, again, it's this thing of like believing, I don't know, I feel like I was just thinking about what you said, how you, you know, you've done this for a long time and so have I. And I find myself also in this new space now, where it's like, I'm the embarrassing mom. And I think I just want to say it's very narrow now, what is cringe and just being like human and being silly and being unfiltered is, is not as easy as it used to be. And I think for younger people, it's very hard. I think you're really bad for the world. I think you're right, and I think you're also kindly like pointing out that it's not as easy as it used to be, because I think we're like, just don't be embarrassed and do your thing and be yourself. And it's like young people are like, okay, okay, it's hard. It's much harder than it was. But that is the secret. If you do things even if they're embarrassing, you're cool, but worrying about being embarrassing is like a lifelong journey. Totally. No, and I think we did, anyway, even if there wasn't like Instagram or whatever. So that's like inherent in all young people. But it's dangerous to be, to to censor yourself too much, because I feel like that's what Martin Shortis to me, like that there's not a lot of censoring going on in his head. Right. You know what I mean? Yes. And that's, he might stop himself. Maybe there's a lot of things he doesn't say, but why the things that come out feel like they have like a very wide base. Yeah. And the range of that is so important. And I think that's what she had, that's what Nana had to me as well. Yeah. Yeah. I just, like I didn't know, I didn't understand it. I just knew that the range of input that she had had was so interesting. Yeah. So many influences. And then also, Roman, you start your own label. Yeah. At 24. Yeah. I know. So cool. I know. I thought I was like going to, you know, retire in like two years. No, I seriously thought I was really old. Here we go. You know what I'm going to put up. I'm just going to do it. We'll see what happens. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I remember definitely being like, you know, I'm watching, coming back to Sweden watching like MTV, like seeing Britney Spears, doing like, sleep for you, like this amazing record she made for her Williams, and I was just like, I'm not going to be able to do that. I wish I could, but I can't, you know? [BLANK_AUDIO] started out at the same time we worked with the same people you know I have the utmost respect for her and I was in this position where I was so close I could almost grab it you know if I just pushed myself but I just couldn't and I went back to Sweden and I just decided to like just redo my whole life and make music in a different way and I had no idea if it was gonna work but it's incredible I mean the the the foresight and the insight during that time because you know for people who don't know Max Martin and a uber producer who writer who's basically just every song we love I don't know how else to explain it's incredible sweet and and you worked with Max and Brittany worked with Max and you guys were doing stuff at the same time and it's really so true in that moment it felt like you've spoken about it you made a conscious choice to decide like I'm going to try to be the artist that I am rather than the artist that maybe other people want me to be or that I think I'm supposed to be right that's that's a really that is such a and like a road diverge moment in your life yeah yeah I mean I was also in a good position I'd made a little bit of money I'd be able to support me and I didn't do it in like total like darkness but it was it was still very scary at the time yes and I really know other people to really look at know pop music was still a very specific genre for young people look which is weird because like David Burn and like I grew up with pop music that was just very different but but let's be honest you know for women it was there was just I mean I think you and I did have I think about this a lot like they're I think about the women that I saw growing up and I don't I don't know if you would say pop music but in music and there was like Annie Lennox and Chrissy Hind and like you know totally you know miss you all these people that were doing their own thing Alia yes Alia that's right you loved Alia yeah where did you guys meet we just met working and sometimes staying in the same hotels and she was just super sweet yeah like I really really lovely yeah yeah that's she's what a talent yeah I want to talk to you about your hair yeah the politics of your hair yeah cuz I'm obsessed with hair cool you have great hair thank you I think that having short hair during that time yeah I bet was like you thought it was like who cares and I bet it was I bet you had a lot of talks about yeah yeah you're totally right this is such a good observation no it was a big thing back then yeah there wasn't you know I could there weren't any comments to it but yeah people were talking and asking a lot about my hair and the most usual question was like how do you how did you find the courage the courage I was just like I always like I always had short hair my also Robin is a boy's name in Sweden and my mom was had this person she was this person that thought if I just cut her hair short it will grow back thicker which is not real yeah it's just one of those things that moves do so I have really short hair my name was Robin and I it was a kind of like that you know you know Jonah Cash on call the point yeah it was kind of like that like it made me tougher in a way yeah but it was kind of rough so I but I was already passed that like it already for me wasn't a big thing and it wasn't a big thing in Sweden but it was a big thing here and that's interesting I bet it was a big thing here and I bet you had well because look if we're gonna compare you as in Sweden all day like I mean I'm happy to you know because I think honestly especially during that time there was an expectation of like just I mean let's get real it was like people wanted the women especially their pop stars to be like little girls no it's true like little doll girls yeah that was it was a it was a rough time yeah and and they wanted this like idea of femininity that like would make everybody instantly understand what they were being sold yeah and anything different than that in the best way perked up everybody's ears but it also felt like you were making some kind of gigantic statement I think it was cool I don't know what this means like I was really trying to figure it out yeah yeah but it it's stirred things up yeah it's yeah it's an easy thing to do to get attention I mean cutting off your eyes not but it still is I think in a way I agree I think that it's really gone away I think you're right and I think also what that probably did you know at the same time that it maybe was making like you know early executives in the 90s nervous it also was like a little signal to people especially like gay young men and women that you were like there was some kind of signal that you were an artist for them like I think without even meaning to it was you were separating yourself from that idea of the pressure of that the construct of that they should have met my friends back home I was just like really contained teenager I think compared to them but I think I think the the the the cool thing about it is that you can signal things with the way you look and I think that's what that's what music does to you can send these secret messages and that people understand it's like you don't really know even exactly what it means but you can feel it yeah and it's such a beautiful thing about popular culture it's so powerful it's what I love about pop music it's so hard to write a great pop song people don't understand and you've written so many of them you have done so many songs let's whisper let's whisper yeah what I mean you put out you put out you Robert Robin your first record you put a body talk and we talked about dancing my own call your girlfriend is on every dance floor 20 15 years later you have made songs that have stood the test of time and and it's though that's so good job good job how do you feel when people call like people say you make like sad bangers yeah it's such a funny I mean I know what they're trying to say but I mean and and let's just say dancing on my own for example is such a good example of a huge feeling in a pop song and emotional vulnerability and like connection and all that stuff and people scream it and sing it because they're feeling something do you like that description when people say that when they say you make those kinds of songs yeah yeah I used to hate it I used to feel really embarrassed hmm oh embarrassed again here we are by like the fact that I could only write really sad love songs like you know like grow up like you know like what are you gonna write it like a happy love song what a nightmare no I know like I'm so in love he loves me so much we're so great we're perfect for each other but you can write other things I guess yeah but I think I think life is embarrassing and I think that it's something I I've embraced I always loved you know I I always loved dancing on my own I was loved all of those songs I was I never regretted any of it it was just more like I found myself just sad bangers like just gravitating to that all the time but then I also feel like that's what that's what life is the and the vulnerability I think dancing on my own is really this it's written from this place where it's like it's a place that is very real to me and it makes me do things that are pretty good sometimes but it's not a comfortable place it's a sad place and it's like where I have nowhere else to go and when there's nowhere to go I have to find myself out of this sticky situation with like my own machine and that's what that song is about like reveling in this feeling of loneliness and like finding power in it and I think when I had a child on my own I found myself even if I had made up with the sad little girl that wrote that song I found myself in that situation again and I started looking at dancing on my own very differently like that's actually a really good skill to have you know I'm happy that I knew how to do that I knew how to turn something that felt very heavy into like a good thing it's what music does I think in its best way is it like it helps you tolerate a feeling yeah and exactly and then you just get a little bit better at staying in those uncomfortable spaces yeah and also how great if you get to feel that with other people yeah no you're so right that's exactly exactly what it is you know I'm obsessed with your club love love of clubs yeah and the reason why I'm obsessed is because I'm so I love bedtime and I love to go to sleep and I get worried about how late everything is When you're on tour or something, you're like, "I'm gonna go to the club, do you take a nap?" (audience laughing) Like, how do you do that? Because it starts so late, Robin. I mean, it's true, I might take a nap. Okay, good. Yeah, I just partied a nap. A partied nap. No, that's one of the best things you could do. Yeah, definitely. What time do you get to-- It's also like, if you stay up, if you happen to stay up for 30 hours, that's just, you know, a nightmare? No. No, like, I think it became much better to do that when, once I became a mom, 'cause I'm like, "I'm not gonna feel guilty about this." Right. If I'm super hungover, I'm not gonna be myself of a better, 'cause it's not gonna happen again for another year or so. Yeah. Just go for it. Just go for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's-- Do whatever it takes to have a good time. Well, I love how you've spoken very openly about your journey, IVF, and having your child, and having a child as a single mom, and the way that has changed you, I mean, and sex-- And on sex-essential-- Yes. You talk so-- It's so cool to hear music about where you're at, and speaking to people who are going through the same things in their life, or might just relate to it on a completely different level, if it's not like specific, and when you made the decision, when you said, "Okay, I'm gonna do it my way." Like, you've done, for most of your life, you've done things your way. What was the best part about doing it that way? Really facing my biggest fear. I think that was the biggest fear really being on my own as a mother. Like, my mom was a single, not a single mom. My dad was there, but he was not really there for a while. And then, I mean, he was. And then he definitely is now. We went there, and my dad is unraising you when your dad went there before. Yeah, he really is amazing, my dad. A lot of people couldn't even imagine going to therapy with their dad. I know, really cool. I know. And Swedish too, I know. Swedes do not go to therapy. No, a Swedish therapist, do they even exist? So hard to find. I know, I've talked to my Swedish talk. I know, I've talked to my Swedish relatives about therapy, and they're like, "Oh, yes, this is relatives." Well, by marriage, my brother lives in Stockholm. Oh, cool. They're all stock soon. Excuse me, he would want me to. Yeah, that's a different place. And he's been in, he's been there only 20 years. Cool, yeah, and my, so I have a Swedish sister-in-law. Lotta, lotta, yes. And, and, yeah, lotta. Hey, lotta. Hey, lotta, popasatumokta. Yeah. And, and, and, yeah, anyway, and therapy is not, nobody goes to therapy. It's true, not compared to here. Everybody goes to therapy here. People love therapy. It's true, when I stopped, when I stopped therapy, my psychoanalysis was, she was like, well, because I was like, I want to keep going. I don't, I want to see you in my whole life. She was like, you're crazy. OK, but we can, we can do it. It could be like an American therapist. That's when she sent me. So sure, she looked at, you know, she looked at some, you know, American TV series about, like, psychiatrists or, so, yeah, analysis. Yeah, it's, I mean, oh, sorry, but I didn't have to. You were, you were, you were saying that, like, being a single mother, yes, was a fear until you faced it and you realized, oh, yeah, it's not a biggie. Yeah, I mean, it, I think that was, yeah, that was like my, my number one, like, oh, I don't want to be a single mom, you know, that was the, that was the big thing for me. Mm-hmm. And I think it has to do, you know, now they're talking about therapy. I think it has to do that, you know, my dad left my mom. Mm-hmm. So that was like a very inherent, like, fire. And you're like, I don't want to repeat this very shameful place to be. Right. And I think, yeah, I just got over it. It was like totally fine. It wasn't a big thing at all. And I think it was awesome. I had so many, like, really sweet, two, I mean, a lot of people that I spoke to, but two of my best friends, women, they were like, you will actually enjoy this more than having a baby with someone else and not specifically, like a man, but they were like, you can decide everything yourself. There's a lot of upsides to being a single person, parent as well, actually. Yes. I'm not saying that's the best way. I don't think that is necessarily the best way. I think it's great for children to have many close relationships, but you can have that also. Yes. Yes. And this was a news to me. I don't know what it is, but like those things that you are very scared of, it takes a long time to really understand. It does. And I would say, Robin, I think it's confusing for people like yourself who consider themselves very, you know, like I said, like very independent, very open-minded. It gets confusing when you're like, why are you worried about this? Yeah. You know, people wouldn't even think that I would care. No. You know? It's very confusing because people, you know, I'm sure what's projected on you is that you're just about us and you'll do anything and you'll give a fuck. And you're like, I'm a human in the world, just like everybody else, with the same kind of weird programming. And I have the same fears and desires and everything. Totally. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I found myself to be like an orthodox person all of a sudden in that. Yeah. But it was fine. And I think what women do for each other, I think this is what your music does, is they tell other women when they feel that way and then everybody feels less alone. It's true. Yeah. But the cool thing about writing about that period before I had my son was that it was all these very contrasting emotions, right? It was like feeling like a machine, doing IVF, like counting, you know, doing my shops. And then thinking about like very, very, very like abstract existential things at the same time like having in Sweden is funny because you know, you don't choose the donor yourself. It's very interesting. Wow. Same. And the doctor chooses for you and they choose, it's very Swedish. It's very like, you know, all children are the same. We're not going to choose eye color. We're going to write, of course, we're going to be as neutral as we can about it. Antelogue, yeah, Antelogue, which I think actually has, you know, it comes from a good place, but it's strange, so I think someone from America to hear that, you know, in Sweden, the donor was chosen for me by the doctor and they do it so that the kid looks like you. Basically, that's the only, but then, of course, you have to have a doctor that you trust. Yes. And so, my doctor was really funny. She really, it's in the song I wrote about, wrote about it called "Sexistential". She told me, "So, like, who's your dream donor, Rob?" And I'm like, I don't know, who's your dream donor? This is a really interesting conversation because did you go for smarts, do you go for looks, do you go for height? I mean, the Swedes, everyone's tall. Exactly. And it says a lot about someone. It does. You know, who their dream donor is. And hers was the singer in one of our biggest rock and roll bands. So, I was like, okay, cool. We can have this conversation. We're going to have it for real, you know? Yes. And I was really like, I don't know. I was just thinking, what am I? Like, dad? Look, not that I would have a kid with my dad, but like, what is my family? What is my family? What is my family? Like, what, you know, it would be like the natural thing. And then I was like, I don't know. Like, Adam Driver? Like, I like a big nose. Like, he's great, you know? And she was like, cool. Great. And she, you know, she made the choice. I go pregnant. And then, you know, we talked to, she was like, yeah. And you, you know, you said you like Adam Sandler. So, that, which is also a great, first I freaked out like, oh, no, I'm going to have a baby with Adam Sandler. Like, what does that mean? Did she not listen to me? Like, what is this? What if I made the wrong choice for my child? Like, is she going to, you know, it's going to wear shorts all the time. Yeah. And then, and then, and then I was like, well, there's no Adam Driver or Adam Sandler in this sperm bank. So, I can just let go of that fear. We be so lucky to have babies with Adam Sandler. It's interesting how you get stuck on this idea that you're able to like choose your child with the partner you have also, which was very sobering. Like, you basically have to let go of a lot of control. Control. And that was, that was, that's what the song is about, really. And maybe that's what the album is about, too. I think that's the beautiful first lesson, even just when you're going to have your kid. Like, I can remember I was doing SNL and I was like, well, my last show was on Saturday and then do on Sunday. So, I'll have the baby maybe Monday. Maybe Tuesday. Cool. I'll go back to work. And then maybe Wednesday, if he's a little late and then, you know, like, as if I had any control over when I was going to give birth, which, and it was the first of a million lessons that your kid arrives as their own person. Yeah. And is there, you know, you get the kid, you know, it's like there's some divine way in which you and your kid meet each other. And I want to talk to you about your dancing and your relationship to your body, because I think that like watching you perform is really, really interesting and awesome because of, and kind of what you spoke of earlier, like, you were introduced to the idea that the body was another way to express yourself. And your dancing is so connected to how you're feeling. Like you really feel like you're an artist dancing rather than a dancer doing dance moves. Thank you. Do you make up your own moves? Do you have, are they choreographed both? Okay. Yeah, both. I feel like a lot of it is actually improvising and doing it over and over again. And having almost like a library, like, a, you know, different places you know you can go. But then I also worked with choreographers. I worked with a girl named Decider for a long time. We did all the body talks stuff together. And now I'm working with an amazing choreographer from Canada. His name is Eric Christensen. He also works with Charlie XCX. He did her tour. There is something magical about the image, right? And the way to be so direct and how you communicate. And so having both a process, because I love process, I love process. And also someone that looks at it from this very indirect way. Having got those two things going at the same time, I think is really interesting when you work with, with dance. You like to get on the floor a lot. I like to get on the floor. Yeah, babe. Yeah, babe. Yeah, babe. And it feels, I love to lie on the floor. Yeah. And I love to, I do. I really do get to, I love the feeling of being on the floor. I know what you mean. What do you like about getting on the floor? In this case, the stage or the, you know, what do you like about getting down there? Well, there's something about, just what, when you're old or also what it does to your spine actually laying down, like you may crack your back just by laying down, basically. Yes. It feels so good to lay down. But you're right. It just takes the pressure off in many different ways. Yes, I have a friend. She showed me the other day. She likes to dance while laying down. Sometimes when she's tired, you know, she'll be just like dancing laying down. You can try that. I will try to have a feel at the club. Yeah. Well, I've done that at the club. That's kind of like more, more, more natural than doing it at home, like just think down at home, dancing on, but yeah, she does that. There's something about getting down on the ground. It just feels like as we get older, there's this feeling like we used to have to live way up in the sky. Yeah. And also we don't know if we can get up. It's exciting. Have you done any of those tests? I've done a couple of those tests. Like, you know, do these five things, like, you know, in your 50s and then you're just like, no, please, great. And one of them, can you get up without your hands? You should be trying. Oh, my God. Please, no. I'm actually right now. I think I can because I have to do it on tour. That's hard to get up from a lying position. I know without your hands. But there's several of the others that I cannot do. Yeah, yet, yet, yet. We're gonna, in your 70s, you're gonna be like, oh, my God, I can't. That's all we'll be doing. I know. But it's true. And it is true. Like, you know, you read some article and you're like, sit down in your chair five times a day and you're like, jeez. I mean, you're like, wait, this is a little harder than I thought. But you have a masseuse on tour? Um, I wish I did. Okay. Yeah, we do need to get me a masseuse. And I think that the, that is, yeah, one of the big pleasures in life, yeah, getting a massage. Agreed. Isn't it the best? I, I feel like it's like, I feel embodied because it's a lot of my work as just like, well, what I said earlier, like, it just to actually feel my body. Yeah. And dancing does that for me. I've said this before about like, I'd rather dance than talk a lot of times. I just feel like I have to remind myself that I have a physical body. Yes. And massage is like, you have a body, babe. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And it's so trippy. Like, you can really take your place and very intimate. Yes. It's almost erotic sometimes. Yes. Sometimes often. Often. I think more often than not. Now, let me find out a little bit more about you. If you're getting massage, it's not great. Like, it's okay. Do you say something? Yes, I do. What do you say? What do you say? Take me through. I'm Emma's juice. Yes. And also I'm going to give you another, I'm a little chatty. Yeah. Okay. Okay. But I'm chatting. Yeah. And I'm doing it. And I'm just kind of, you're not, it's not really, I'm not doing it the way I like it. Well, I'm just going to say, can you please add a little bit more pressure? That's the first thing I say. Yes. If they don't understand, I say it may be one more time. You can go even harder. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And then, and then, you know, it has happened that I'm like, you know what? I think I'm done. Incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Let's not waste time. Yeah. Because just putting lotion on my body is something I can do. Absolutely. By myself. And gentle, nice, respectful feedback. Yeah. I mean, that is the thing about being, I think, about being in your 50s is you're like, may I, may I give you a little thing? You might be interested in what I have to say. Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. No, it's important. Do not waste time. You talked about process. I want to talk to you about process. And someone else had a question for you about process. So we do this thing on the podcast where we talk to people who know our guests, our fans of our guests who like has a question for me and we talk to Zara. Oh, another sweet, another beautiful sweet. She's so amazing. I love her. Tell me about what you love about her. I love that. What what I'm most impressed by, which I think is a good thing about the young, the younger generation is that they are very clear on what they think. And she, I actually met her recently. We did something together and I asked her like, how are you so sure about your political views? Like, how are you? How did you get there? And she said, I had a blog and, you know, a lot of people, you know, were really angry at me and I had to answer a lot of trolling comments and it really made me have to think about what it is that I think, how I feel. And she has this very natural way of like, just expressing herself and she knows what it is that's important to her. It has to feel good for her. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it has to be rooted in something that feels honest for her. Yeah. And she knows how to communicate that in a way that it's really inspiring, I think. Yes. And she's funny. She's really funny. She makes me laugh and she's kind, well, you are a hero of hers. And her question was, do you kind of wait to be inspired to make another record or do you make another record and know that you'll be inspired? Like process. Yeah. And which I think is an interesting question, especially for an artist like who's, you know, who's been making things for a long time. Totally. I mean, it's really interesting. It's an interesting question because it also is about the mystery of inspiration. I feel like I listen to your interview with Billie Allianz. She said, I live to laugh, which I think was such a great thing, but I feel like you're going to add, like, I live to be inspired in that. And it's like, it's like a little fire and you have to keep it going. And sometimes you do get inspired to do something, but it's usually very hard to know where the line goes between feeling inspired and getting inspired just by doing something. And I think with the close collaborators that I have class being one of them, it's really about us just getting into the studio and start, like, being at each other and, like, making jokes and talking about, like, really stupid things. And then maybe make something. And a lot of times it's not even fun. Yeah, sure. It can be kind of frustrating and boring. And, like, you don't even know what you're doing. And then after a while, it starts crystallizing. Anyway, so I would say I'm more of a process person than than the intuitive thing. Yeah, that's really interesting. It's kind of, like, learning to be just kind to yourself during the process, like, not giving up or being too hard on the first, second, third drafts of things. Yeah. And I think, I think men's are spoken about that. It's not necessarily a sign that it's going to be bad just because you feel uncomfortable doing it. And it's almost like we're in a time now where we are so also politically correct that any environment that doesn't feel safe, can sometimes be a place where you don't think you're supposed to be there. But learning how to kind of sit through that uncomfortableness, it's like almost like an endurance sport anyway, right? Like, if you can sit, the person who can sit with the uncomfortable feeling the longer can probably write the more interesting song, I think? Yes. That's so true. But it's nice when you do people that you feel good with, but it's not always going to be pleasant. Yeah. I want to end our talk today with some Swedish questions, questions about Sweden. So like I said, my brother Greg, he lives in Sweden, has per, oh, I'm making almost 20 years now. Can you please rank Swedish holidays? Midsommar. Yes. Why so scary? Is it because of the movie? Yeah. I think so. Okay. What do you find it scary? It's a bit of a culty. There is a whole handholding and circling and dancing, pretending you're a frog. Have you done that one? Smogirvda na? No. What's that one? I mean, it's this thing. We dance around the Midsommar pole. Yes. Creepy, which is yeah, a little bit creepy, a little bit vulgar. I mean, it is a ballast. Yeah. And it's like, you know, the two balls and they'll be dancing around. But the weird thing about it is that the biggest hit of me so much is Smogorova Denai. It means little frogs, little frogs. They're so cute, dancing around. Yeah, so you're jumping around the pole as a frog. I don't know why, like it is strange. It's also really lovely. It's like the lightest day of the year if you have sex on mid summers if you're still a virgin. Maybe that will change your mind. Oh my God! Ladies, did you hear that? [ Laughter ] Oh, no! What about crayfish party? Yeah, I don't like crayfish. Okay, so you would put that third totally. And because the other one is Lucia. Love Lucia. So Lucia is beautiful. Yeah. And for people who don't know what that Swedish holiday looks like, what does Lucia look like? It's the 13th of December. It's one of the darkest days of the year and in the middle of the day because the sun goes down at three o'clock in the afternoon. Lucia shows up and she has candles, lit candles in her crown and she sings beautifully. And I think it's actually an Italian saint that we just made our own. Yeah, there's all these weird. But I think it's one of our like pageant, old like holidays as well. So it's all mixed up. But it's a Christian pre-Christmas thing. I didn't even think about that. That the lights and the candles are like cutting through what is a very dark Swedish winter. Yeah, very cool. Yeah, it is cool. And then my brother would also like me to ask you, Eurovision. Yeah. Why is it so big there? And it doesn't-- [LAUGHTER] I love the skeptic vision. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, we don't have Abba anymore, so I don't really watch Eurovision. Abba was discovered on Eurovision. They were one of the first people to win the whole thing for us. I see, I should have known that. With Waterloo. Wow. That's hard to-- I mean, we're going to go from there. Hard to beat, yeah. Then we had Kerala. Who is, you know, both millions are group listening to her. Amazing artist. And then now it's just shit. I would say. I have American fans that I watch it with. And they have this-- my friend boat, he has a blanket, and he pulls us over his ice, because we're watching it, because it's so embarrassing. And it really is embarrassing. And after I've watched it, I feel really just overstimulated in a bad way. And I was looking forward, so I'm not going to say it. But yeah, I don't like it. [LAUGHTER] Great. And lastly, Kale, the caviar in the tube. I mean, the Swedish breakfast, I love a Swedish breakfast, because I'm a salt girl. I'm not a sweet person. And so the way that you guys do a cheese and a fish and breakfast is perfect. I agree. But the caviar-- No, I know. I'm sorry. Yeah, we're going to say no to that. We're going to say no to that. And I think a lot of people would say, you're not Swedish if you don't eat it. Like, yeah. It's true. Like, it's that. It's that of a big thing in our culture, but I really don't like it. And because I'm an American, I have to finish my Swedish questions with an American question. But because God forbid, we don't talk about America for more than five minutes. But what is the thing about over here, whether it be the crowds or the way of life or something that you've adopted and incorporated in your life, synthesize in your life that you like? Well, to be honest, I love this country. I mean, I've come here for more than half of my life. Yeah. My biggest audience is here. And the music I grew up listening to, and even the Swedish artists I grew up listening to, listen to, American music. I mean, it's just so-- it's been so important to me to have this culture. And I think Los Angeles is extremely ugly. But it's because you have this kind of thing that you can do whatever you want. And it creates beautiful things that don't exist anywhere else. And that's really incredible. But I do feel like sometimes I'm really like capitalizing on the fact that you have such a bad president. Because I come here and I play for people, and they are just-- They're letting themselves go. And it's just beautiful to see how much you give of yourselves in those moments. And so that's really amazing for me. I think people have been turning to you, Robin, for a lot of that feeling of wanting to express big feelings that they have and uncomfortable moments that they're living in and living through. And I'm so thankful for that. OK, so I always ask my guests at the very end, is there anything you're listening to reading, watching a video, a TV show, anything that's making you laugh these days? Well, other than Martin Schwart and his body are more-- Other than your interview with Martin Schwart. You were both really, really funny. No, I think it maybe it's not a funny thing, though, but it didn't make me laugh. It's a book called "Is It Ever Just Sex?" OK, standby. Look at that. And I can't remember the writer now, but he's a psychoanalysis. And he wrote a book about sex. OK, Daryen Leder is the psychoanalyst who wrote the book. Yeah. And it's about just human beings and their sexual habits and why. And it's from a psychoanalysis perspective. It's really interesting. I mean, America's such a prudish country. Yeah, you are. Yeah. That's one thing. Definitely, you have a problem with that. Yeah, yeah. But I don't-- I don't know, like, yeah, it's weird. You can't be naked, too. It's like, well, it's love to be naked. Yes. I mean, everyone is naked. And there's nothing-- and obviously being naked doesn't mean you're being sexual. Exactly. But it is funny, like it is. It's like, to time. Yeah, like, yeah. Hi, so how are you, like, yeah? No, it's very relaxed with them. Yeah, very relaxed. And you're right, there's something where we still-- I mean, we're just so juvenile. We think it's so stupid and funny when people are naked. And sweets are like, who cares? Yeah, who cares? It's true. My brother's girlfriend is American, and yeah, she gets a little bit uncomfortable when we're all swimming naked in the summers. She's like, I'm just going to go behind this tree and put on my bathing since we're, like, you do that. I love her. OK, I'm going to read this book. I loved our conversation. I need to. I'm so happy that you did this. I'm so glad you asked me. I loved it. I loved it. Robin, everybody. [APPLAUSE] Thank you so much, Robin. That was so great. You're such a talented, interesting, cool artist. And thanks for just being so frank and funny and real. And you know, we talked about a lot of things, but we did mention that Americans can be very prudish. And so for this polar plunge, I just want every person right now listening to take their clothes off, just wherever you are. If you're driving, unless you're somewhere inappropriate, but you know what? If you're at work, you know what? Who can't take your clothes off? We're such prudes. I'm so sick of it. And so is Robin. I mean, why are we so weird about it? You know, just remember back in the day when you could just be cool with everything and sex and take your clothes off. So you know what I mean? Just don't do it because I said so. Do it because you want to. And if anyone gives you a hard time, just say, I heard it on a podcast. Robin, thank you for being here. Thanks for checking out Good Hang. And hey, have a good one. [LAUGHTER] You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weissberman, and me, Amy Poler. The show is produced by the Ringer and PaperKite. For the Ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spillane, Kaya McMullen, Malaya Zeneres, Bridget Curelings, Paige Garberini, Bell Roman, and Drew Van Steenburgen. For PaperKite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weissberman. Original music by Amy Miles. [MUSIC PLAYING]