Robin Lord Taylor

Welcome to the NERSPICUS number 671 Hey, it's Kyle Clark with the Nerdist Community Cockboard That was a good one. We got a little Michael Mcdonald at the end there Here's some Nerdist Community Cockboard Alright, now everybody stop right there. Grab your sandbar That's made it into my act. I started talking about being a walk around muppet. You are. I quote you for that. If you swing your arms more, if you just pretend your hands are heavier than you are, then you can do it. I actually just stopped doing that because I used to walk like shaggy from Scooby-Doo when I was in high school. Oh, you did? Yeah. Sometimes your arms are going a little long and they just started going. What's going on in the restroom machine? Just bad 80s comedy premises with Michael Tucker. How come socks have turned in hangers? Oh, what a career he could have had in that direction. Where do all of the socks go? I just want to hear Jerry Seinfeld singing some Michael Mcdonald songs. What? Again, you don't know. It's like the chameleon who walks in front of the plaque. I keep forgetting. I'm not in love anymore. There we go. What a full of leaves. That was pretty good. George. So this first community court board posting is from David Zegler. And he wrote a book called The Making of Diabetes, The Musical, The Graphic Novel. "Fuck at David!" And it's a prose book that then periodically interrupts itself to be a graphic novel that also has a script from musical that the character is writing. So I can only imagine that the book is just a perfect circle or like orbout of fantasm because it's just a slowly a snake eating its own tail. "Alien's being squashed down from the gravity!" I'm just nervous now. I'm just nervous. I'm doing the plots of spoiler plots from 70s horror movies. That really needs to be a web series. We do the channel. Michael Mcdonald spoils 70s movies. Look out for the tall man! You ever seen the extended cut of that? Like my roommate college was obsessed with fantasm. So I know way too much about that franchise. There's a couple of deleted scenes in that movie that address things that happen later in the movie that you need to know. It's really weird. Oh yeah, the original movie was a sort of puzzle. It's real choppy. And you see? They shot those scenes. I saw it probably 10 times in an extended cut. No, that's real necessary information. I think what happened is that the 70s happened. The 70s happened and then the cut of the movie, the original cut of the movie was wandering through a mausoleum and then an orb where the drill came through and it just sucked a lot of the juice out of it. I think that's what happened. And creepy jaw-aw knockoffs. Yes! Oh, it's so good. Well, it's next on the cardboard! Alright, so this one, if anybody goes to this, I want you to respond to [email protected] because Tom Miller's wife is holding a cosplay roundtable in Ontario, Canada. Okay. She wants all of the cosplayers of Ontario to meet up at the Proust Pottery and Soap Company at 116 Auto Out of Street in Hamlin, Ontario. And they're going to do a meetup to try to figure out how to maximize the community of cosplayers at any expertise level in Canada. Enjoy your Putin! Now, Tom, I'm gonna be honest, I didn't notice it all right now. You didn't put a date for your wife's event. So really, really screwing her over on this. But somebody just go hang out there at the Proust Pottery and Soap Company and just dress up as a kid superhero. And I imagine somebody will be like, "They'll tell you the date." Okay, forget it. Depart a date in this email. Okay, forget it. How to properly promote cosplay. That's actually got a good little vocal hook there. That was, I was just like, "Alright." And then I was like, "Oh, that's actually catchy." Okay, forget it. They're all Canadians say, "Hey." Okay, forget it. Just like they do have a bunch of polite people dressed as superheroes. Like, meeting in a soap store. Is this the date? Like a bunch of people show up every day. Just start doing it every day. Let's make this a Tuesdays with Mory situation. People just slowly learn to love again. This episode is Robin Lord Taylor, who could not be a sweeter dude. Well, first of all, he played Sam on Walking Dead. So he had a couple episodes of "Ark on Walking Dead." And of course, you know him as Oswald Kaboopad aka the Penguin in Gotham. The Who? Penguin? My mom used to call it a penguin when I was a kid. She could look at the penguins. Aww. I think maybe I might have said penguins. She took it on. She took it on and reflected it back at me to teach me a lesson because I was stupid. And she was right to do it. Mark in your chirodram. Robin Lord Taylor is the final season of Gotham. Is this Monday, May 4th at 8pm. I adore this man. I mean, the final episode of the season finale. That's the one? What did I say? The final season finale. In my brain, it immediately went to that, "Wow, Gotham's been on for way longer than I've ever." It was a 10-strong 10-year run. The year is 23. Man, we really got these backlogs for a while. Yep, that's right. This is episode number 6,070. So we're Matt just got launched. 6,071. Episode number 671 with Robin Lord Taylor. Whah. Now entering nervous.com. Fantastic. Yes, congratulations. Thank you. I don't know what to do with that now. I don't know. I think you tell everybody all the time. Oh, this webbee shirt? It's don't worry about it. It's not. It's not. You would understand it. It's a little thing with things. Winners like me get, but don't worry about it. I'm sure you'll probably get one someday. Maybe it won't, but it's okay. It's all good. You couldn't have this one. This one's mine, but you could have your, maybe you'll have your own. Maybe you'll have your own. Make a web series for good. Yeah, maybe it's tough. It's not easy. You have great tweets. You have really good. Your social media is really, your Instagrams are that cat. One point. Your cat at a eating salad was, 'cause cats don't eat salad. Yeah. That's an award winning cat salad picture. So you're tuning in right now. Tuning in. Listening to cat salad with Chris Arbick and Robin Lord Taylor. Yes. Would cat salad, you think that would be about cats eating salad, or would that be like putting a bunch of cats in a bowl and taking pictures of it? Either way, I'm into it. I'm all about it. I mean, spaghetti cat was a big moment for me. And I know that does anyone even remember spaghetti cat? Is that a thing? No, I don't know. That's so fucking funny. Yeah, that was my jam. Still is my jam. It wasn't a former jam. No, it doesn't go. It never goes away. Now, is your hair normally jet black? No. This is for Oswald. Yes, I am naturally blonde as blonde. Did you dye your hair before you audition for the show, or are they like, "We gotta dye you, we gotta dye you?" No, yeah, I was blonde at the audition at the callback, and then they were like, "By the way, you're completely changing your appearance for the show." And of course, I was totally fine with that. And, you know, I've. Do you like being off? It's okay. Yeah. It's a thing. You know, like, I catch my reflection, and I still to this day, like, have moments where I'm like, "Uh-oh, that's me." Yeah. Okay. I would think. I would think. Out of that group, Oswald would probably be the goth kid. A doll. For sure. Oh my god, yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, I'm, I'm, you know, I listen to the Smiths. I do a lot of research. The clash. I'm all about it. Yeah. Oswald followed Morrissey around for a while. He was really. Went on the tour. Yeah. It's a knockback stage. Tried to be a vegetarian for a second, didn't work out. Didn't work. Yeah. And then until Morrissey was like, "Me too's murder." Right. Like, what? No. Fuck off. Sorry. You lost me. He wanted it to in a sandwich. You lost. He really wanted that. Murder is murder. I mean, let's just get beyond that, too. Well, yeah. That's a whole other thing. Murder is a whole other. Whole other. Yeah. What would that be? A humanitarian? Yeah. Totally. Oswald isn't that. You know, I had. When you came on "Talking Dead," I. Before. Like, the day before you came on and they were like, "Oh, and Robin played Sam." I'm like, "Oh my God, that's right." Right. I just did not make. I had not made the connection. You know, my life is divided between two people. People who knew me before, people who knew me after. And to this day, when I see the people who knew me before, they have a moment where they're like. I will be like four feet away from them on the street. And they still. They won't know it's me until I'm like. Right in their face. Yeah. Sam had a pretty brutal. It was rough for Sam. Just not. It's not Bopocalypse. It's very difficult, Robin. I. I would not be on like that different from if I were in that situation. I'm gonna make. Oh, I wouldn't have made it that far. Like, Sam made it all quite a way. He was lucky to meet Rick. Yeah. I mean, that was it. He had a girlfriend for a while. I know. He was good. He was doing fine. He got Rick's watch. And then we. And then it was terminus. And that. Rick is. I think the opposite of whatever a lucky rabbit's foot is. - Yeah, oh yeah. - Because everyone they come in contact. - Absolutely. And even then it's not like guaranteed. Yeah, I mean, you could be Rick's BFF and obviously it's-- - And obviously not. It's not gonna work out. - Beth. - But now you've got this crazy huge show, which, I mean, it's very rare that you get a job that changes everything overnight. - Usually it's just like, oh, you've been working for like 12 or 15 years and finally people go, yeah, that guy. But you just snatched the public's eye. - Yeah, but then I had been around for like 12, 15. You know, like I've been doing, you know, like professionally, I went to New York right after graduating and then I kicked it and did the commercials and the law and orders. - The 12 year overnight success. You were on law and order. - Yes. - Which law and orders were you on? - I was on the original law and order three separate times. - Bum, burm. - Which one? - Different characters. - No, but what was your-- - Which one? Okay, so the first character I played was an escape, an escapee from a Christian, like molesting cult. - Okay. You know. - Sure. - At sure. - The second rule was-- - Who was the DA? Was it McCoy? - I didn't even make, I was just one of, I was in the house that-- - You were part of the law, not the order. - It was Dennis Freena. - Oh. - Yeah, got it. - And Jesse L. Martin broke down the door and I was there. - Nice, okay. - The second one I was the car stereo installer with tattoos who witnessed something. (laughing) Can't tell you what that is. And then the third one I played a gay murderer, or a gay basher. It's unclear if the character was gay, but I killed Shion Jackson's boyfriend in front of a gay bar. - Oh. - Yeah. - Did you, you got convicted, right? - Oh yes. - Okay, good. - Okay, good. - Yeah, you know, for a second we didn't know. - No. - A second I may have gotten off. - But at the end. - But at the end. - It came out all the-- - The dunk dunk came out. - I always wanted to be in a, I did a CSI, but I never did a law in order. - Well, you live in LA. - I know, that's the problem. - I know, just for a win, just a minute. But it's not, is law in order still on? - No, the original is not on, SVU is on. I was on that as well. Play the rapist. (laughing) - I mean, it just-- - You're a guest on Law and Order, you've done something horrible. - You've done something terrible. - Yeah, there's no, you're just gonna be, you're gonna be not a, but it's ironic now. Now I'd love to see Oswald on Law and Order, like that'd be a great-- - Oh, yeah. - That would be an amazing episode. - He would totally get off. He would not like-- - Law and Order Gotham. - Yeah, right? - Yes, crossover. (laughing) - I don't know, do NBC and Fox talk to you? - I mean, can we, is it possible to make that happen? 'Cause it'd be really red. - It's amazing. - And I know you did some stuff with Billy Eichner for a while, right? - Yes. - You guys, did you go to Edinburgh? - Yes, we did. Yes, Billy and Eichner is one of my best friends. We went to Northwestern together. And then after we graduated, well, we lived together in Northwestern, lived together in New York for several years. And in that time, we created a show called Creationation, in which we sort of developed his man on the street persona, which has obviously like completely taken off for him. He's like unbelievably good at it. We actually, we initially tried to do it the both of us where we were both talking to people. And it was very clear from the first day that I cannot. (laughing) - That's a very specific school set. - Absolutely horrified. - Yeah, that's what you do. Yeah, he is completely fearless when it comes to that. I, however, I'm not. I went behind the camera and I was holding the camera while he would say and saying things to people on the streets of New York City. And anyway, but yeah, then we took the show to Edinburgh. We sold a script to Bravo. It was like, it was a really amazing moment. And yeah, and I got to like, you know, meet Drone Rivers three times, which I knew was the best. - Live, I just, I mean, I can't tell you. She's, yeah. - Did you get to hang out with her, and with a Tony extent? - A little bit. I mean, well, she was at Edinburgh as well. Like when we were there. And so I, so we, she had a show and we went backstage and we were like, hang out and talking to her and stuff. And like, honestly, like the nicest woman in show business I have yet to meet to this day. Like unbelievably supportive of young people of New Talent, of just, you know, you know, she was such a huge influence on myself and Billy, of course, and, you know, yeah. Everything, like, yeah, I just bow down to her memory. - So you're your background? Well, I would imagine is your background more in just general acting in theater or did you want to specifically focus on comedy? - It was general acting in theater, definitely. And yeah, but, but, you know, randomly, like, like through my friendship with Billy, like, you know, it was a, it was a good match because, well, you know, Billy, obviously, is Billy who is a comedic genius. And, you know, it was very clear from the beginning, like our dynamic on stage would, like, I was very obviously the straight man. And so, like, I learned early on, there is no going up against Billy Eichner, especially when there's a live audience. Like, you are going to lose. So I learned, you know, to basically do the exact opposite of what he was doing, you know, to listen, like, you know, and, you know, be receptive and, you know, like, carry, you know, help carry the load in that way. But like, but yeah, but yeah, my background was always in theater and the, you know, the drama. - And so how's the theatrical? - I mean, because obviously, with Oswald, you wanna, he's technically a very big character, but you still wanna root him. - Yes. - And so there is that sort of, you know, I almost feel like, I mean, this sounds crazy, but since there's, since this subgenre is so prevalent right now, I almost feel like there should be a comic book acting class which sort of teaches you to kind of straddle that line between it's like, okay, you know, your character's gonna make some very bold choices. But you still, because the genre looks so gritty now and so like, real, you know, it's like, you gotta straddle these two lines. - Totally, absolutely. And I, well, and that's, I mean, I give all credit to Bruno Heller, who is our showrunner, who did a "Rome" and the "Mentalist" and, you know, of course, now Gotham, he, you know, created, like, the language for the character. And also, like, you know, just the, you know, where he's coming from, like that, that, that, and also tied it into the comics. Like when I got the job, I went, we're really lucky and to completely nerd up. I got to meet Jeff Johns, who's the head of DC and, you know, like, you know, insane. And then I said to him, I was like, you know, if you know of any, if you know of any comics that, you know, address, like Oswald's background or, you know, any sort of like origin stuff, like, in the canon, like, you know, just, let me know the titles, I'll go find them or whatever. He was like, no, what's your address? And then he sends me, like, three days later, like, a hand-selected, you know, comics about, that, you know, specifically about Oswald's journey, like, to where he ends up, and, you know, that really addressed his backgrounds. And then, you know, through that, I learned that he was a bullied kid. And, you know, it was like that, that's what really hooked me into, like, the humanity of the character and something that I could really identify with and make, help me make him more of a, you know, a three-dimensional person, as opposed to just a villain, you know. - Yeah, 'cause in otherwise-- - There's an highly whiplash doing evil things - Exactly. - being evil. - Exactly, otherwise it's just the sort of, you know, two-dimensional, kitschy old Batman series, where it's like, "Ram, just evil, quang, rang, rang, rang." - Which there's nothing wrong with that. - No, that was, that's fun. - Just narrative, I mean, amazing. Like-- - But probably wouldn't work so well for this iteration. - With this iteration, exactly. Because really, yeah, that's what they're going for, is they're going for like the actual humanity of these characters and like trying to find, like, yeah, like you said, like straddle that line between like reality and comic and fantasy and, you know, and figure out, like we're in between, we can, you know, create these characters. - Have you been, you must have been to conventions at this point, have you been to Comic-Con? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I'm just amazing. (laughing) It's insane. I mean, my life in this last year has just been like, like, to go from where I was a year ago to then having fans. (laughing) It's like, it's a lot, it's a lot. It's amazing. Like, I mean, you want to be, as an actor, you want to be in something that people respond to and that, you know, really touches them. And I feel like, you know, like at least with the people that I've met through the conventions, like, you know, that's been very clear and very validating. Like, having people come up and be like, you know, like, you know, what you're doing is great. And like, you know, I really love your character and I love all this stuff. And that's really amazing to hear. And then at the same time, like, someone will come up and like, immediately burst into tears. And I don't know what to do. (laughing) It's so flattering, but no one prepares you for that. - I think what you're supposed to do, and I'm not sure. - Oh yeah. - I think you're supposed to just place your tongue right at their chin and just lick the tear off the side of their face. - Oh, okay, next, yeah, good to know. - And then you just keep walking. - Cool. - I'm not supposed to. - I can't, I'm not 100% sure. - Are we taking that note of that? Okay, so San Diego. - Yeah, yeah, well, that's what we'll do. - Make sure everyone's over 18. - Yeah, yeah. - Cause we howl do you? 19? All right. - And then you keep walking. - Right, right, right. - Yeah, and I think that will start to create that. It'd be funny, it's just like, you start to create the mythos of Robin is becoming like this. You're merging the character of you Any questions? him in licking faces. - In licking faces. - Yeah. - I think, I'm so glad I'm, I'm so glad I'm feeling it. - I've been doing a lot of, I've been going to cons for years and so this is pretty, this is what you're supposed to do. - Cool, cool, cool. - Bad count advice from me. - Yeah, look people's faces. But it is, and it's also kind of funny that, 'cause to a certain extent, you must kind of feel like, "Hey, don't relate to him too much." - Yeah, right? Exactly, like-- - Technically still a villain, technically he's horrible person. - Like, he doesn't really respect human life to the extent that we all should. But yeah, and that's an interesting thing where people on Twitter and whatnot, when they're like, "I love your character so much." And it's like, "Okay, you know, you should, sure, but. " - Well, because he, you know, 'cause I think most people will identify more with the outcasts and they will, you know, the hero. - True. - It's fun to watch, you know, be the shit out of people. But most people will relate to, "Oh, the outcasts, yeah, I can, you know, if one or two more things were slightly different in my life, I could be a villain." - Right, yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, yeah, and that's the thing is that, you know, again, like knowing like his backstory, and, you know, and I think it's a true thing for all characters. Like, if you know where they're coming from, there is sympathy there that automatically comes into play. Like, once you understand someone, you really understand them and what they've gone through, whether or not that's been explicit in the show, you know, like, still I think like that's what we're trying to bring to it, and I think that's what, I hope, I hope that's what people are responding to, it's just the fact that like, you know, they recognize, you know, what it feels like to be an outsider, what it feels like to be, you know, treated like less of a person because of the way you'd look or, you know, what your interests are, which is, you know, what Ozl went through, also being like, you know, a first generation American, like, you know, like all of that stuff like plays into his psychology and plays into like, his incessant need for power and also to be recognized as someone who is worthwhile and who, you know, deserves certain, you know, things that other people have gotten just because of the way they are, you know, whereas he has not had that, you know. So I think that's what people are responding to. - What's your favorite part of him? - My favorite part of him is his ambition. I mean, you know, like, I just, and with that, his, his, his cunning, like, like the fact that he can, you know, look, not just one step ahead of everybody, but he really does make an effort to like, the person he's talking to and interacting with, he's figuring out who they are and basically plotting, like every possible move that they would make in that situation. I responded that because I think that like, there is a sim, like, he really makes an effort as, as I think a defense mechanism, which is something I identify with, you know, ingratiating himself to someone so much to the point where like, and I don't take it this far, but where he like can actually manipulate them and get them on his side to then do his, you know, his bidding or to, you know, right. So that he knows where they're coming from and he can like, plot what they're going to do and then work his way around that. And I understand, I grew up in a very small town in Iowa, and I was very Friday nightlights. I don't do the sports. And I was involved in theater in a small town where they understood, but it wasn't the popular thing to do with it. And so I understood what it was like to, and also being an overweight kid, like I understood what it was like to feel like less than and not equal to my peers. And my defense mechanism was very similar in the sense where like I was like, I'm going to be funny and everybody's best friend and be like super nice. And you know, just ingratiate myself to everybody, you know, with the hopes that they won't beat the shit out of me when school is over. I'm familiar. I know that mechanism really well. Yeah. Yeah. It's a thing we do. It's a survival mechanism. It really is. And I think that that's another human aspect of like obviously the penguin and Oswald, you know, it's this huge, you know, it's a Batman super villain. But I feel like that is the human part of him that I'm really trying to bring to the forefront, you know, was it? Do you have siblings? I do. Are they sportsy? No. Well, I have one, I have a younger sister who is an opera singer. Oh, wow. But she was also, I mean, you know, she was also like popular. Okay. Yeah. She was a cheerleader. Oh, gosh, got you cheerleading opera singers. Really? I've never heard that I'm the pipes for that. That's amazing. She could project. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And she, you know, she, and she, and also there's a difference. Like, I'm not a singer. But being a singer in theater in a small town is much easier to wrap your brain around. Sure. You know what I mean? Like it's like, oh, she's got talent. You know, it's like being, you know, playing Peter in, you know, the diary of Anne French. You know, it's not what it is. Respect or understood. You know, I don't know. It's like it's, it is not as clear of a thing, I guess, you know, but are you okay? Were you okay with that? I mean, in the sense that, you know, if you had been super popular, if you had gotten all that stuff really easily, you know, maybe you wouldn't have developed the way that you turned out and had the talents that you had and pursued the things that you pursued. Totally. Is it kind of a, do you embrace it? Absolutely. I mean, I completely embrace, you know, everything, you know, everything I'm, you know, it's the clip, it, well, cliche or whatever it is. Like, you know, everything I went through led me to being here with you sure. Of course. Like, of course, you can't really like look back and regret anything because, you know, obviously it made me who I am and it made me like, you know, really like, I think like, maybe really helped me really understand a character like Oswald, you know, and also other characters that I played in the past, you know, like I've always sort of played, you know, like, like we can go back through our my lawn order. But, you know, it was like, you know, like, you know, there has been an undercurrent of that kind of, of, you know, characters that are misunderstood and, you know, having just, you know, even though like I was never bullied to the extent that Oswald was and I was always very, you know, supported by, I'm incredibly supportive family and, you know, and, and I did have friends in high school. It's not like I was, you know, you know, complete outcast, right? But, but, um, but yeah, but, but that all did, you know, help me at least like understand that kind of psychology. And I think that's reason why I like sort of been cast in that sort of way in a majority of my roles that I've played. So you say you were an overweight kid. Yeah. Was that a, was that a psychological thing or was that just a, was it just a physical thing? I was like, oh, I wasn't really paying attention. And then I think it was both like, I think it was like, well, I mean, you know, I don't think I went through puberty until I got 19 years old. Yeah, that probably paid, like, played into it a little bit. I mean, a lot of it too was like, you know, I would, you know, like, be like being gay and like a high school in the middle of Iowa, in the 90s. Not the best situation. What? Yeah, right? Shocker. It's really hard to put. Everyone hold on to your seats. Come on a second. Right. Yeah. So after Friday night lights, they didn't go out for showtune. And I, okay, that's, this is a whole different. You know, if I was running that chili would have, I want a glee Friday night lights mashup. I am calling Ryan Murphy when we get out of here. I mean, you're mashing up the best of both. Right. Both worlds. I think. I think that's what we want. Yeah, it is ready. Did, was it something that you, that you addressed back then? I mean, were you comfortable with yourself then? Or did you, did it take time? Did you have to get to like New York and be like, oh, I'm, I'm not the abnormal one. I got to college and that was when it, that was when it was like, and I, and I knew, I knew. And in my head, I was like, just get to Chicago. Like just kid, get to school, get out of Iowa, and then you'll be fine. Like I knew it in my head. And like that was my, that was my goal. And, and, you know, obviously it was like, you know, and of course, like, you know, at that point, like my parents were totally on board and like fine. And my mom was of course not surprised at all. And, but, but yeah, like, but the overweight thing, like I think it was a lot of it was just sort of like, as much as I was like trying to ingratiate myself to everybody and be, you know, you know, funny and nice to everybody. I think I was also trying to disappear in a way. Like I think it was, that was the other half of it. And that was interesting. And like, you know, I didn't consider myself because I, you know, love, and you know, granted it's high school. So, you know, it can't be anything more than like, whatever, you know, high schoolers go through in terms of, you know, relationships and all of that, and discovering themselves. But like, even then, like, it wasn't even an option for me. So like, I think in a way, it was kind of a way of kind of, I, I didn't think I deserved it. And I didn't think I would ever have it when I was high school. So like, I just didn't, didn't care. And I kind of like ate my feelings. Yeah. In that way. I mean, because I never, you know, you know, to me, like a person's weight really shouldn't to find who they are. But if you, but if it's the But if it's the result of really unhealthy choices, then I sort of feel like, oh, well, you know, don't, don't so much worry about your weight, worry about if you're doing things that are destructive to yourself, like maybe try to understand that and make, make healthier emotional choices. Right. And then if the other part follows great and if not, it doesn't matter, but you should just, you should really find a way to be happy with yourself. No, totally. And I think a lot of it too was like the, it was where I grew up and it was the time too, because like, you know, like, you know, growing up like, where I went to school, it was like, you're either a jock or you are nothing. You know, like in terms of physicality, you know, like there's no real, like you're either like playing the sports or you are, you know, walking in a circle around the gym and, you know, like going to McDonald's afterwards with your friends. Well, maybe you should do, you know, I'm sure you, maybe if you ever are a union coming up in a couple of years, you can go there and see how all the jocks are a fared. Right? I know. Yeah. I'm on Facebook like everybody else. Don't think I don't know this. Are there any people that we're, so you said people are pretty cool to you in school? They were fairly cool. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, I had been called like Fag and like, you know, you know, fat ass and all that shit. Can I say these things? Yeah, yeah, no, of course. Can say these. Of course, no. I mean, if you believed, no, no, no, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I would never, I wouldn't believe that. The only time I would believe that, the only time I would believe that word is if someone said it in a disparaging manner. Right. So that's part of your experience and telling the story of, you know, like what you went through. I think it's, I think it's fine to say what you went through. Well, yeah. And that, and that was it. Yeah. And so, but it was never, like, again, no one ever beat me up, no one ever like, you know, it never got physical or to the point where I was like, really afraid for my well-being, but it definitely like, you know, I had been called, you know, those things. And, and, yeah, and, and, you know, again, that all just like worked in my head where I was like, just get to, just put your head down. It's gonna be over soon. Yeah. Get to Northwestern. I mean, you're so fine. You're lucky that you had that and that you had a supportive family. Because imagine how many people go through that. I'm sure you have a million times. How many people go through that, but they don't have any support structures. So they're just like, I don't know. I guess I'm not, I guess I'm not gonna, you know, be happy. I'm not deserved to be like, you know, how, if anyone's listening who's maybe going through something similar, do you have advice for that type of situation? Well, I mean, I mean, what all I can say is find your passion and through that you will find people who love you no matter what you look like and, you know, and who you are and, you know, who you love, like you will find community there. And once you find the community, those people, that community will inspire you. Hopefully if you're receptive to it, to make healthy choices and take care of yourself in the best way. I mean, really, it's like it is, I, again, it's, I was lucky in the sense that I went to, I went to a school where I met amazing people who loved me and supported me and are my friends to this day and without them, you know, I wouldn't be to, I don't come on. Again, I keep repeating myself, no, I wouldn't be sitting here with you. I'm here to say. But yeah, that's, that would be my only advice is like, find your passion, stick with it and through that you will find community and support and love. And that's really what we're all looking for, I think. And the second you got to Chicago where you're like, a little bit, yeah, I mean, it was a little bit of a transition. I mean, I was living like, I was freshening near, I was like living in this huge dorm on the, on North, the North Campus in Northwestern, which was in the Frat Quads and like, you know, ever, the bathrooms didn't get cleaned over the weekend. And so of course Friday night, someone would puke in the middle of the bathroom and it would sit there. And you're literally like leaping over it to get to the shower. And the dorms never figured that out. It is, no, I mean, hopefully now they have. I don't know. But yeah, and so at first it was then I moved and then I got more involved, you know, like your freshman year is a lot about like fulfilling requirements and such. And then as the years go on, you get more and more involved in, you know, your major. And like for me, it was theater and like just getting more involved in my acting class and like developing those connections and, you know, with my acting teacher and with my, my classmates, like really, really brought me out of my shell and like helped me like, figure out who I was and like learn to like, you know, love myself as much as I can. Yeah. It's, it's not, you know, it's still a process, you know, like, well, I think, I think if you have, also if you have any degree of, you know, you don't, there's this sort of weird thing that happens where you're like, well, I want to be able to love myself. But I also, I don't want to get cocky. And so you sort of like beat yourself down a little bit. So you're like, well, I don't want to get a big head. You beat yourself down and you yourself deprecating, but then the danger is like, well, you don't want to, you don't want to do that too much because you still, you're not, you're not doing anyone any good if you beat yourself up all the time. No, absolutely. It's absolutely true. And, you know, and that's, you know, and of course, that's the human condition. I mean, you know, we're like, constantly like writing that line our entire lives, you know, between like self acceptance and then also like maintaining, you know, self awareness, you know, whereas like, you know, figuring out, you know, not, yeah, and being able to relate to people without like feeling like you're, you know, above them or below them. It's finding that middle ground. And yeah, I, that's, yeah, that, yeah. Well, you're, I mean, it's, it's kind of, it's kind of cool because now you're in this position where you can be a role model to people. Right. And you can, I mean, you know, isn't that amazing? It's insane. It's amazing. And they can benefit from your struggles and your mistakes and your choices and your good choices. I know. And that's like, that's the goal. Obviously, that's like an amazing part of it and also unbelievably terrifying. Well, like, like part of it too is like, you know, not to get like two actors or whatever, but like, it's a weird, it's a weird line or to walk because as an actor, especially the kind of actor that I see myself as, which is a character actor, like, of course, I'm sitting here, telling you everything about my life. Like, it's a weird thing because like, you want to also like, like, the, the character actors I respect the most, I know nothing about, you know what I mean? And like, I, you know, like, personally, because like, we're creating illusion here, you know, and so it's like, I think it's easier, like, as, you know, for your career or as an actor, you know, the less that is known about me personally, the easier it is for me to, you know, inhabit another character without people like having, you know, preconceived ideas about who I am. Oh, I understand. Which is a reason why like, the worst critics to ever bring to a play or a show or anything that you're in are your parents and your best friends. Because they are like, they're like, they're like, screw you. You don't make that face. You don't say that. Well, I do those things. I hear what you're saying, but I also think, you know, people are savvy now. They know you're, you know, they know Oswald's a different guy. Make that, you know, I would hope. I certainly, I certainly, I certainly respect the idea of like, well, you know, I want to keep some stuff that's private. So I have my own, you know, protective bubble. But just as I, you know, I think even as a character actor, you could still, I don't think it's terrifying because you don't really, to be a role model and especially you and all my interactions with you, you've been nothing but just the nicest guy is that, you don't have to be anything more than just yourself. And just being yourself and it's hard to process that because you think, oh, I have to do something to be a role model. Or I have to do something to help. And you don't. You just have to be you, you know, and so you know, your experiences and the things that you've learned, you know, like that's part of the legacy that you'll leave to the world. It's like, these are my experiences. This is what I went through. And other people will benefit from that just knowing, hey, that guy seems like he turned out, okay, maybe I'm not so bad after all. So I don't think it's as daunting as it actually sounds. Right. However, it just having influence on anybody is so terrifying. You don't mean like, don't shit in public. I know. Don't take a shit in the street. Yeah, God, as long as you don't take a shit in the street, you're going to be fine. Uh oh, I just, oh, man. Oh, my way over. No, you know what, see what's great about it. It was sent to deliver though. So that doesn't matter. Oh, sorry, it's covered in shit. You, you could do weird stuff like that and just be like, I'm researching for my character because that's what Oswald would do. He's probably taking a shit in the street. I mean, I'll talk to Bruno, hello about that. See if we can work that into season two. I'll have to get my double to do it though. But that was the other thing too about getting this role. Like, you know, like I spent like so many years being like, being like, you know, if I only get this one thing and it wasn't even on this magnitude, but it was just like, if I only get like a recurring role on a TV show or, you know, and that was really my goal. Like, just to work consistently, if only I get that everything will be solved, of course. All the problems will go away and not happen, right? Oh, yeah, everything's no more from China. The Rose is and I just took a shit on sunset. No, no, but that's the thing is I like, yeah, it doesn't. And, but it obviously, a lot of problems have been solved in certain ways. Like, a lot of pressure is taken off and like of me, like in terms of like, you know, the actual physical costs a lot to live in New York. city, you know, I have health insurance, which a lot of people in this country do not. And these are things that I'm totally grateful for and like I've made my life so much easier in that way. However, you know, then my, what my identity for the last 15 years has been like a struggling actor. And then what happens to the person who gets what they want? I mean, this is the line from Willy Wonka. Right. His answer was they lived happily ever after. It's not exactly true. You know, it just sort of like illuminates the other things that, you know, deep down I was sort of like passing off to like, Oh, you know, I feel this way because I don't have the regular part on a TV show. Like deferring all of the, you know, like, so it's been a really, like this year has been. Yeah, what are you going to defer now? Like how are you going to defer happiness now? You know, right? Like that fucking universe called your bluff, man. Do I actually have to be happy now? Like, okay. Now they're just staring at you like, right? You'll be happy. Oh, maybe happy now. Am I happy? I don't know. Is this good? Yeah. Right. Am I appreciating this moment as much as I should? You know, yeah. But again, like Danny Cannon, who is our executive producer, who, you know, is an amazing guy. He directed the pilot and the, and the last episode of Gotham. And he also directs all of our post production. He has an amazing term for this and he calls him champion problems. Yes, of course. These are champion. They're champion problems. You know. And so like, I of course, like, you know, it's nothing compared to what people are going through, you know, with their day to day lives. Yeah. But it's just part of, you know, we all go through this in certain ways. Well, and also if you, like you said, you know, if you're used to being struggling actor guy, you know, you're going to have patterns that were established for years that you like, like habitual thinking that you have to figure out how to get out of it. Right. Totally. And then like, you know, to this day, like I, you know, like the second I feel that I have a moment where I'm like, oh, things are actually might be okay. Crashing into my brain is like, don't get used to it. It's going to go away. Yeah. Yeah. That's just, that's just because of what we do. You're, you're so used to things just being in the wind. Like, oh, I got to think on the verge. So, yeah, right. Where does it, you know, totally. Yeah. Yeah. And it goes, you know, like it, it comes in it goes, but you know, it's, I think if you, you, and you can't fully control it, right, you can't mostly control it. But, you know, you can't control the choices that you make. And you can control being nice to people and you can't control working hard and you can control appreciating stuff and, you know, that's just, it helps. And you can control saving your money, saving your money. You can control like, you know, the next kind of role that you take, you know, like you can take the crant and route and be like, I'm going to do something totally unpredictable or you could do something like it's just, it's, it's, you can, you're more, I think you're safer than you think you are. It's just, we're taught in this business to never get comfortable. Right. Because it just doesn't want you to get comfortable. No, totally. Exactly. Like you feel like, like once you get comfortable, then you're, then you're dead in the water. Then you're like, then it's over. I think complacency is bad. Right. I don't think, I don't think being comfortable is terrible, but I do think it's important to constantly making yourself a little bit uncomfortable. So you're just growing and so you're learning and you're trying new things. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. But I think you have to be a miserable, uncomfortable person, 100% of the time. I know it could go that way too. Yeah. I mean, how many people do you know who are that way? Like who do have success? And yet it's never, ever enough. And they are just as intolerable as the people who are, you know, like pining for something that will never happen. You know, it's like, yeah, finding it out. It's kind of a pathology though. Like those are people that, you know, no matter what, you weren't happy when you weren't working. Now you're happy when you're working. You're not happy when you're working. So you're just not going to be, you're just, you just have to figure out why you're not happy. Right. And it goes beyond career. There's, yeah, it goes like, yeah, because when you envision that dream job, which it seems like you have now, right? When you're envisioning it, you always just, you just think of the headlines parts of it of like, I'm on a show and people like me and I'm making money. Like, you know, you don't think about the work and the pressure and, you know, like how it affects and being more public and what that means. And like, you don't ever take into account all that stuff. So it is, you know, it's a change and it's change is always scary, no matter what. That's exactly it. Like it's just like, yeah, the change has been insane and like, you know, yeah. And then yeah, and navigating who you are through that change, that's, that's the challenge. And you, and certainly, you know, if you don't have to talk to anything you don't want to, but I'm guessing that you have a partner that you've had within your, that's supportive and is kind of keeping you, you know, keeping you tethered to reality. He's keeping this whole ship before I was all this exists because of my husband for sure. Oh, that's nice. It's amazing. And like, I mean, we've been together over over 11 years. Oh my gosh. We're married for almost four. And like, yeah. And he's, you know, he's just, yeah. And he's brilliant. And he also, you know, works in the business and like, he's a, you know, he, he, he, he, you know, he sees me spiraling and he's able to be like, you know, take a second. So what's your relationship advice? Because 11 years in this, I mean, in 11 years in, in this business is incredible. And I know that that, you know, that might bump people out to hear that 11 years is a long time and this, but it is a really long, it's a, that's it. You have a very successful relationship. Yeah. And how do you, how did you maintain it, particularly with the kind of tumultuous nature of what we have to go through? Well, I think, you know, like, we've been lucky in the sense that like, you know, like, again, like we've been together for such a long time, we got together when we were both young and, you know, things were just starting out. So we've been able to like navigate like, you know, the, the initial starting out excitement and then the drive periods where it's really scary. And then now like, we're going into this other phase where like, things are happening for both of us and, you know, and I, you know, but ultimately I have no advice only because like, I just looked out and found like a really awesome dude. It's just like, like someone who like, you know, honestly, like makes me laugh to this day. I know it sounds so cheesy. That's not cheesy. That's important. But like, and also like, you know, like I had someone say to me recently, someone who's in, you know, a long-term relationship who was like, and this is not to, you know, and I'm sure every relationship is different. But he was like, he was like, do you ever have moments where you're like sitting down at dinner and you just, you just have nothing to say to each other? And I did, you know, I do. I mean, there are times where we're sitting down and like, it's just, you know, we're just going to eat and like, you know, you can't like, obviously talk to someone from a popular guy. So yeah, exactly. Have a good day. Yeah, you have a good day. Well, blah, blah. Did you see what Abbot Oncy and I, you know, like we could do that forever. But at the same time, like, we never are at a lack of things to talk about. Like, I, you know, he, again, like, he's just really smart and I find him like incredibly interesting, like, to this day. And so like, I just feel incredibly lucky and I only hope that everyone can find that, you know, like, it's just, it's random. We met in an audition. Oh, really? Yes. Yes. We've always had an audition for. Do you remember? For Frito Lay stacks. I know if you're familiar with the product was Frito Lay was trying to horn it on the Pringles. Yep. They're going to stack that. The problem is our chips aren't stacked. They're not stacked in the people want things and stacks. Research shows people like stackable food. And that's totally how I talked in the audition. I was like, yeah, yeah, we want stacks. Stack this shit. Frito Lay. The shit. Frito Lay. And thankfully neither of us got a job because we were both into it. Worked in LA and we were both New York based and like, we were both, we neither, it was a callback. And we were neither of us were, we're, we're, we're, we're cast. And so we were both able to run into each other at the bar that we can. Hey. And so yeah, that's good thing you guys weren't stacked material. I know right. Thank you, Frito Lay for never hiring me. Did you guys talk at all at the audition? We did. We talked just as you do like when you're an audition, you know, like, and you know, it's a weird environment where like you're like sitting with a bunch of people who are all going out for the same part. And it's a callback to you. And like we're all really wanted, you know, because we're all like, you know, struggling actors in New York City. And like, but you know, like some people talk, some people don't. I tend to be the one I'm, I'm, I talk when I'm nervous, obviously. And I, and I, and, and so to see. And so we just, we talk, I think we talked about the Jetsons for some reason. I don't know why. Because it's great. Because it's amazing. Yeah. And we were trying to remember, and this is again, this was 2004. So like, this is before, this is Flip Flown Flip Flip phone time. So, you know, can't just like, oh my god, it's not like such an old, like, you know, you have a question, you don't call it immediately. You don't even, like, you actually have to like talk about it. And maybe you don't answer your question. God for you. And you just don't know. But you had a conversation. Did you answer the question? Yes, we found out that Rosie was the name of Rosie was the maid was the of the robot maid. Yes, exactly. That was the conversation. If I were there, I could have just told you that. Right. Sorry, I wasn't there. Well, it's good thing you were. So I'm curious in the, this is, this may sound like a really dumb question, but it's just something that I had never thought of before. But in the gay community, if you meet a dude that you Like, is there any part where you're like, are we just bonding 'cause we're guys or is this person and should I, like how do you know when? - Had no idea. Like, especially in an audition place, especially in 2004. - It's supposed to be a whole other added, we're mystery thing that people don't have to. - Right, exactly. And also, like we're going in for like, dude, with freedom of lay. And so like, you know, that tends to bleed over into your personality when you're in the waiting room. You know, like, I had no idea who was gay. He didn't know I was gay. And again, like, you know, we didn't get the job. And then we ran into each other at the gay bar. - Nice. - Not in New York City. - There's one? - There's one. - That's so crazy. - There's only one. - I don't think there's more there. - You be sh- - No. - That was supposed to be so crowded. - It's 2004. - Chris. - No, no, no. - So yeah, so we were like, and then, so yeah, I saw him there and I was like, I was like, holy crap. I was like, and again, this was 2004. It was the first time that I had ever seen anyone from the audition world. And I was auditioning with the same guys. Like, we were all sort of all going out for the same parts. The first time I had seen someone who was like, out of the closet enough to go to a freaking gay bar. And so I was like, oh my God, I have to talk to him. Because, you know, like, we were just at the thing and we should, you know, we should be friends. If he's like, you know, comfortable enough with himself to like, go to a gay bar. You know, and so like, that's, and that was like, why, that was initially like why I was like, I had to go over and say hello. And so, yeah, and even then, like, even though we didn't exchange numbers, and then we ran into each other again randomly on the street. And I was with Billy Eichner. Billy and I were walking back to our apartment. And we ran into my husband and my future husband. And we just like talked. And then we walked away and Billy Eichner was like, you should date that guy. He's now a producer on Billy on the street. And he is like, you know, it does amazing things for Billy on the street and for funnier dye. I mean, like, you know, it's just amazing how things work out. Like, that's the other good thing about getting older is like, these random things that happen in your life. These random like occurrences and meetups and instances where like, at the time you were thought, it was like, who knows, whatever. And then you get older and you look back and it's like, oh, God, if I have another story. But you're like, if that didn't happen, I wouldn't-- I mean, you're all married. I would. I would. --finctures in each other's lives now. I know. And it's like, yeah, we're all-- Thanks to stacks. Thanks to-- We don't need. But also thanks to-- And I'm going to tie this back into Gotham. There was an episode-- and I forget what number. I think it was 15. It's the episode where Oswald, Jim, and Bullock go upstate to the farm to investigate this cache of information that Commissioner Loeb has. And it's OK if you don't remember. But it's like-- so we go up to this farmhouse and we run into this creepy old couple. The woman who played the creepy old lady is this actress named Becky Ann Baker, who is Mary to Dylan Baker, who's an actor on The Good Wife. She also plays-- oh, she plays Lena Dunham's mom on the girls. And she's an incredible actress. She and my husband were in the same theater festival way back in 2001 or two. And because of her, my husband got his agent and was then able to be at that audition. Oh, it all comes back around. And then I blow away with a shotgun in Gotham, like literally blow away in the face. Have you ever seen the show-- did you ever see the old British show connections? No, I haven't. Oh, it's a classic. Yeah. Oh, wait. Is it like an 80s show? Yeah. And they talk about-- James Burke. --but it's a science-- It's sort of sciencey, but it's more about history. And like-- The used to rerun it on the science channel or discovery. So they like lay it at like two o'clock in the morning. That's my favorite kind of stuff. Where it's like, if this person hadn't invented this kind of gut, it's like how chewing gum led to the first satellites, you know? And it was like all like three, two on contact, kind of like fixing stuff. Yes. Oh my god, I totally know exactly the way it's like. Can I even have heard a 321 contact reference in a long time? I just posted like the intro to Twitter the other day. So the wife possessed me. But that song is amazing. Like it's like guitar and like, yeah, 321 contact. I just remember like-- Contact is the reason for the decision. What-- Everything happens. Oh god. 30 something. Yay. Yeah, I wish. Uh, it's a great space coaster. Were you a fan? Did you see that show? I know. Because that was another one of those shows that the song was in was on my iTunes. And it just was on shuffle. And then it just came up the other day. Oh yeah. And I hadn't heard it in years. Were you like living your life? Like, just jamming it out? It's-- It's such a weird-- Great Space Coaster was such a weird show. What was it? Was it British? Was it-- It wasn't British. It was just basically like a children's sort of sketch comedy show. Oh, OK. I think it was kind of educational. Oh, it's answering. And it-- There was a character called Gary Ghanou, who read the news, which she called the Ghanou's. Oh, the guy. It's-- I don't know why I'm focused on this in moments. No, don't. And get in there. But if I can pull it up, maybe if you hear a bit of the theme song, you'll-- It'll-- In the very least, I will pretend that I know it. So this wasn't worth nothing. So I just had to breathe by the greatest American hero theme to get to the great space. We could listen to that too. Let's see if this-- [MUSIC PLAYING] So 70. Oh. [MUSIC PLAYING] It's the great space. As you know this, get on the great space coaster. The real ex-smart coming right and fantasy. We were placed with dreams like fast and free. With new friends and new things. It's like a piece of a weird good joke. Living room on the great space. It's super trippy. Children's entertainment was very trippy when we were growing up. And now it seems much more grounded. Yeah. It really is. When you look at-- I just did a thing where I-- why did I start with this story. I presented a Fred Rogers scholarship. And then it got me remembering Mr. Rogers' neighborhood. And what was the name, Lady Elaine? How fucking-- [LAUGHTER] Sorry. You could say that. How crazy did she look? Yeah. Do you remember like the-- No, I'm going to say it for you. Lady, look. Fucking crazy. She looked insane. Yeah. And this was like, you know, now children show everything must be cute. Yeah. There, you can't have some-- she looked like Elaine Stritch. I mean, it was like Elaine Stritch's puppet form. Maybe that's who they basically-- I would not be surprised in the slightest if that was-- I don't know. I think they were just-- And that may inform a lot of things about me. This is that of my life. The amount of Mr. Rogers' name. There hadn't been Lady Elaine. You wouldn't have decided to go into which-- Right. I wouldn't have seen Elaine Stritch on Broadway. I mean, who where would I be right now? I don't know. See its connections. It's all connections. I think that show might be on Netflix. Can you see connections on Netflix, Katie? God, I hope so. Because it's such a-- every episode is endlessly fast. And I-- Guy with like that long gray hair. Yes. Eight rows of teeth. And just-- The British professor. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah, the best. The best. Would you ever like host a show, do you think? Totally. Why not? Did you ever? No. No. I auditioned for a lot of them. I did that I would go into Nickelodeon, like for a while. I would go like in like at least once a week and be like, it's Robin Law Taylor. And I'm hearing we're going to watch some Doug. It was a show, yeah. I think you're confusing Doug and Ed Ed Netty. Ah, yes, I am. If I could just go out on a limb for a second. You know everything. I know a sampling of things. Is it on? I just don't need it. What? Come on, Netflix. Stream that shit. Yeah, that's it. There's, yeah, James work. Oh, that's so good. Yeah. Connections. Connections. Today we'll see how toenails led to the nucleo reactor. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Another show. It was the British parody of connections. Look around you. Look around you. Peter Seraphinoich. Oh, goodness. Yeah. A fucking amazing. Good Lord. Look around you. Maths. Look around you. Yes. Oh my god. No one knows about this. Yeah. No, I think a lot of people listen to this podcast probably know. But if you don't look up, look around you. It'll change your life. It'll absolutely change your life. Yes. So what are you now? Are you pretty focused on got them or do you have side stuff that you want to get going or your own projects? Yeah. Well, I'm hopefully-- and I don't want to be vague, but I have to be vague. But hopefully, there's hopefully an independent film that's coming around the bend that would be nice to work on in the next month. We're close to nailing that down. And yeah. And then we have two and a half months. And so it's not really a lot of time to really get involved in something. But really, yeah. And then the other thing too is that everyone asked me, are you a friend and being recognized as the penguin for the most human? Which is a shitty, frown-outed question. Do you know what is the alternative? You know? Like the alternative is never working. - Well also, and also this is an icon, like what is bad about that? - No, you know what, it's not, that's a ridiculous question because people, things just don't work that way anymore. - No, exactly. - Because you know, you're one good film away from all the sudden like completely breaking out, like it doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter. - Even if I wasn't, even if it like just ended, you know, thankfully my second season, even if it just ends at the second season, like come on, I mean it's amazing to be part of this, to have this in my life, you know, like I don't fear, like 'cause that will end another part, like, you know. - Okay, I'm gonna actually like, you know, stand up for myself. - Break it down. - And have self pride in the sense that I do believe that like I have enough talent to be, oh God, say, even say. - You have enough talent. - Stop it. I'm good enough. I'm smart enough. - And God, I got darn it. - I'm good. - Don't have people likely. - Yeah, you have a nut, you are confident in your abilities. - I'm confident in my abilities that like, even if it's, and I'm not looking for, you know, like to be, you know, in the next, you know, Steven Spielberg movie or anything, but like, you know, I have a feeling like, you know, like there will be things, the fact that I was even in things before this is a miracle. - What if Steven Spielberg was listening to the podcast and he was just dialing a number like, oh, they just called to me. - No, I want to be. - They just closed his flip phone. - Steven, I really want to be in that. (laughing) - You're listening right now. - Or if one of your kids are listening to that. - Yeah, no, because especially, you know, you kind of have a focused path too, where you're like, I want to be a character actor, I want to disappear into roles. And I feel like they're, you know, particularly because of the boost that got them will give you. If you just want to, like, be in a cool thing, if you just want to be in a cool independent movie, you could just, you could do that now, because people are like, well, fuck yeah, of course we're gonna want that guy. Bring it and then you'll get to, you know, dye your hair a different color and be a completely different person. - Well, that's the other good thing about the character too, is that like, I don't naturally look like Oswald, you know, in advance, like, God willing, the show will run for years, knocking on wood. I, but, you know, like, at the end of it, and that's the great thing about the characters that I'll be able to, like, go back to my natural state of blondness and the way I look and, like, sort of put the character away. Like, there's, I, what I love about the characters, that like, the actual physical transformation is just so, so much a part of who he is with, with, with his, mannerisms, the way he speaks, the way he looks, the way he walks, all of these things are come into creating this character, which is like, amazing for an actor, because it's like, yeah, it's like, all these other, you know, aspects that, you know, it's, it's not just me, you know, like, there's a physical transformation, which is nice. And so, like, like, God forbid it ends, but when it does, I'll be able to just sort of put it away and move along and change it. - I mean, and if you wanted to him, if you wanted to embrace that the rest of your life, you could, you could be like, I'm the penguin, I'm the, you could identify as that, but I think if you make choices to do other things, you know, then you don't have to just, you have the point is you will have a lot of options. - I love it. - And you're gonna be okay. - You're gonna be, you're gonna be, A, okay. - We'll see, man. I mean, anyway, it's all good. It's all good. And, you know, like, I think about being typecast, and I've said this a million times, and my husband told me to stop apologizing for repeating things. (laughing) - No, repeat. The second half of the term typecast is cast. - Yeah. - You know? And like, when you've gone like 15 years, like, you know, working like very intermittently, this is the goal. And so, anything after this is fantastic. - 'Cause you can make different choices and you can do different fun things. - Yeah. - And, you know, you're up for doing whatever. And also, I think we have an unrecorded as you saying, was it fucks, Spielberg? I'm not, did I get that wrong? - Chris Tuller says fucks, even Spielberg. - No, wait, what? - No. - Or did I not? - I said, oh, I'm sorry. - No, I said I want to fucks, do you know what I'm saying? (laughing) That was also a joke. That was a joke. (laughing) - That was a joke. - That was a joke. - He just opened his flip phone again. - Oh, okay. - Oh, okay. - Oh, that case. - Okay. - Oh, okay. - But, you know, it's, this just sailed by. You know, we've been talking for an hour. - Holy crap. - It feels like 10 minutes. - I just, dude, I can't thank you enough for being so nice. - Of course. - Like, the talk you do is an amazing moment in my life. Honestly, and your energy is just unparalleled. And I can't thank you enough for being so kind. - Oh my God. - So supportive of the show, end of the Walking Dead, and just love me in general. And it's really, it really means it. - I like meeting nice people. And, you know, it's, it's very important because not everyone is nice. And so when you meet nice people, you're like, I want that person to, you know, I want them to do well, 'cause there needs to be more nice people in the business. - Oh, dude. - Yeah. - So much to be able to know, I did. - Besides the fact that you're immensely talented, I'm like, that's, you know, well, I know whatever. (laughing) - That part's cool too. But it's, you know, and that's why I think it's kind of better to have to struggle for a little while, so that you really appreciate the opportunities when they come along, and then you really give them the care and gratitude that they've received. - I agree, I'm just so happy this is happening at this point in my life, because I think if it was happening like 10 years ago, I would be on some, probably some e-programme. (laughing) - I'm not the most like flattered fashion. - Correct. - The TMZ would be a lot more prevalent in my life or something like that. - The Stacks guy, Robin Lord Taylor. - No, no, no, no, no. - Like you would just be the freedom of the Stacks guy. - Yeah, right. - It's really Stacks guy. - Very. - Well, the season finale got them is Monday, May 4th. And then are you back shooting already? - No, I'm mid to late June, we resume. - Oh, it's not that far. - I know, it's not, and I'm dying to know what happens. I know nothing. What did I tell you? - Did nothing. And even as far as I don't even know if I can get a haircut. 'Cause I don't know if it picks up from where we ended up. I know nothing. So yeah, I'm just gonna-- - Champagne problems, dude. - Champagne problems, dude. Yes. - Good to see you, Robin. - YouTube, man, thank you so much. - Enjoy your burrito, everyone. - Yeah. - Good night. - Good day. Good morning. - Connections. - Internet. - The internet. - The internet. - How a shit-soo's eye-book led to the creation of the internet. - This is our new guest book. - Read from the book of Mormon. - No. - Are they really doing another one? - Another, I don't know. Are they doing another Beatles juice? - They keep talking about it. - I've heard rumors. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me with Birdman and everything. People must be like, we gotta capitalize on that shit. - He was actually-- - I thought he was fantastic. - He's amazing. - He's always amazing. - Well, in that, but also Saturday night live, I thought he-- - Fucking killed it. - He's a comedy guy, like he's-- - Yeah, he doesn't know. I think I can make him a beat, but-- - Oh boy, Katie. Just gotta text for my mom. - Oh. - I wanna start doing a podcast. - Yes! - Well, she's a sportsman. She's a hardcore sportsperson. - Ooh. - Which is funny, both my parents were sports people and I'm not a sportsperson. - Uh-huh. - And this. - What's where you from? - I grew up in Memphis. - Okay. - 'Cause they-- - Well, no, you know what, that's not true, Katie. I just liked computers and video games and chess. Like I didn't, and D&D, like I just didn't-- - Do you play Sierra? Are you Sierra Nutt? - No, I didn't play Sierra. - Okay, like King's Quest or any of that. - I played, oh, it was Sierra, the game company. Yeah, I played King's Quest. I had a, my roommate had a computer that-- - Did you get your G.S.? - No, it was a, what did he have? - Gateway 2000. - It wasn't, I had a Gateway 2000. This was in the, this was in the early 90s. It was, it wasn't, I had a Tandy, my first computer was a Tandy. - My dog's in Tandy actually. (indistinct) - We get into this on the pod, shh. - We're still recording. - Oh, really? - So, my roommate had King's Quest. - King's Quest on his computer, and I wish I could remember the computer, but this was the early 90s, and the computer ran at 11 megahertz, but if you hit the turbo button, you could kick it up to 22 megahertz, and then you could, and then in King's Quest, he would walk twice as fast, because the processor was going faster. - I think my friend had that. Yeah, that was such a relief. We had the disc, we had the, we didn't have a hard drive in my, our first computer, and my parents got me King's Quest 4, of course, 'cause it's the one where the princess runs. (laughing) - It was really into it. And it was like 12 floppy discs. - Oh yeah. - So it would be like, - Please insert disc two. - Please insert disc two, disc eight, and then God forbid if you accidentally went off the screen, back to a previous disc when you didn't mean to, then you had to insert the disc. - Go back. - Go back, insert the other disc, just to go back. - You know, I really, I know this sounds weird, but I really like the consistency of a floppy disc. Like it just had a great feeling to it. - Yeah, there was something nice, yes, you knew, yes. - You had to make a shrunk and then shut the little, the control. - Yeah, you had to manually shut the door. - So good. - Oh my God. - I know, let's go back. - Let's go back to floppy disc. - My cousin works at Google, and he took me to, well, he's in Pittsburgh, but he comes to New York to the New York Google, New York Google Office. - They're pretty sweet. - Yeah. - Have you been? - Yeah. - So you've been to like the museum of old computers that still work. - I've been to, no, okay, no. - They're like a whole hall of like, Tandys and Gateway 2000s in Apple 2GS's and Apple 2E's. And like, they all do, they're like you can play Oregon Trail and, oh, that's fucking red. - It's nice to play Zork on the Apple 2E. - Oh man. - 'Cause my, the chess club, the math department had Apple IIE's when I was in school. - Yes. - And so that's why I played Tech Space games. Yeah, the green glow. And I love those machines. - We had a game where in my school where you were like, you played, you were a red blood cell. And I don't remember the name of this game that someone out there needs to find this. - Oh, that sounds really familiar. - And you played like a red blood cell who went through the body and did certain things and aligned yourself with white blood cells or so, yeah, I'm probably misremotting this, remembering this, but they really blew my mind back in the day. Although it was no organ trail. - No, no, that stands the test of times. - Forever to this. - That and the door for me. - I don't know what to say. - Thank you very much. - Thank you. - Thank you, baby. - Thank you. Great, amazing. What's up next? You two have a couple of things. - I just have to go live tweet Gotham at some point. - It's Monday, that's right. - Yeah, oh good, yeah, we're playing. - Oh, and you're wearing a Scythian Steven shirt. - I am. - He's great. - Isn't he great? Do you have the new album? - I don't have it yet. - It is fantastic. It's really, I mean, this was from his last album, which he went kind of on a journey, which was, I loved, but his new one is back to very acoustic. - Really, just, and it's gorgeous. - That's great. - Yeah, I have the, come on, feel the Illinois album. - Ah, that one's good. - I still listen to "A Run Over Again." - Oh my gosh, Chicago is like my way of life. - Have you met him? Do you know him? - I haven't, but my husband did. And he worked, 'cause my husband is also a video of "Protection Designer." So, and Sufyan does a lot of video protection design in his live shows. And so he assisted the woman who does it for Sufyan. (laughing) Remember the name. And so he got to work on the show, work with him. And then he also had just at that time bought, do you ever see the 3D cameras? - Yeah. - With the two, yeah. And so, and this, like, it had just come out. And so he had taken like a million photos and then was backstage and showed it to his supervisor. And she was like, she was like Sufyan has to see this. And so she called Sufyan over and then has been handed it over to him. And he just like spent the next 45 minutes, just like freaking out. (laughing) Which of course makes perfect sense. I mean, it was like the 3D camera experience for him was, you know. - That's Brad. Yeah, I love that. - I love that guy. I've never seen him live, but I really love him. - He's amazing. - Yeah, he's amazing, I mean, yeah. He's just like, yeah, super cool dude. (bells chiming) - Now leaving nerdist.com. - Enjoy your burrito. (bells chiming)