Ring for Analysis: Matthias Jaissle, Newcastle’s New Manager

[Music] Hello and welcome to the TFO Football Podcast. I'm Joe Devine and today I'm delighted to be joined by John McKenzie. Oh, that's where I speak, isn't it? That's where you speak. I thought you were going to say something and then you didn't and then just pointed out. Well, I'm pointing at you so that you know, no, you can speak. Hello! Hey, there it is. There we go. Now, welcome to another episode of Ring for Analysis as our first ring for analysis of the season, John. It is. Have you remembered how we do it? No, and I think that's clear from the episode that you're about to listen to. We sort of got there in the end, didn't we? Yeah, we did. Now, here's how Ring for Analysis works. I read an article that was published by the Athletic and then John rings a little bell that sounds like this [Bell] when he wants me to stop and pause so that he can offer some analysis. And today's Ring for Analysis was about an article written by, well, the podcast's very own Sebastian Stafford Blur. It was published on the Athletic August the 6th, so going back a little bit of time, and it is called the following. Matthias Yisler, by those who have worked with him and watched him closely. Now, of course, we start out today's podcast by talking about Matthias Yisler and his history. There's a big chunk of time where we talk about Red Bull, Red Bull Football, but we get onto Newcastle as well, don't we, John? Yeah, Newcastle is in a very interesting transitional phase. It's great for Newcastle because they love to attack in transition. But yeah, very much sort of the end of the Eddie Howe era, we talk a little bit about that. And how Yisler will be able to, I guess, negotiate some of the difficulties that the Newcastle project is facing. I expect Newcastle fans listening will know some of this already because they will have done their homework and listened to various other shows. But Newt Trolls listening, non-Newcastle fans listening, may not know. Matthias Yisler actually pretty highly rated coach, right? On the surface, it seems like one of those things where, well, he was managing in the Saudi league and Eddie Howe unexpectedly left, so they just grabbed whoever they could. It doesn't seem like it's one of those things. So we talk about that a little bit in today's episode as well. And then I'm trying to think if there was anything else I've missed out. Why do we get to? Oh, you gave me a very difficult quiz. Yeah, a very difficult Chelsea quiz. No, I was thinking of the Wins of the AFC Championship. That one was also difficult, but I think the Chelsea one was also hard considering it was like name Chelsea players from about three seasons ago. I performed poorly in both quizzes today. Anyway, there we go. That's it. So after this lovely little bit of music, you will hear us ring for the analysis. Jon, I shall just begin reading, shall I? Do so. Now, as a reminder, the headline was "Meteas Yisler" by those who have worked with him and watched him closely. This was, of course, written by Sebastian Stafford Blore. I've heard of him. Published August the 6th, by the way. So maybe those that know him and have worked with him have changed their opinion in the last seven days. Yeah, we're saying that. We just don't know. Okay, here we go. Where to start with "Meteas Yisler", Newcastle's new head coach. Well, February 2022 is as good time as any. I've read that wrong. I'll just pick up what I'll do. That's good to get one wrong in the beginning, isn't it? And for Paul, the new producer Paul to leave it in, so that people know that I am a human. Mm-hmm. Okay. Paul, I'm going to read that again. February 2022 is as good as time as any. No, I've read it wrong. No, it's a new season, Jon, isn't it? It is. And sometimes it takes us a while. Old creaking bodies takes a while to get going. I've certainly forgotten how to read. What's that? You appear to have completely forgotten how to read. February 2022 is as good a time as any. Yisler, then 34, had just guided Red Bull Zaltzburg to the Champions League knockout stage for the first time in their history. By Munich or on the horizon in the next round, and while that would end in heavy defeat, Yisler and his players would still finish the season by winning the Austrian Bundesliga and the OFB Cup a domestic double. Yes, Jon? I feel like you're enjoying saying Yisler. Yisler. How can you tell? You just seem to change your tone ever so slightly every time you just say that that works. I thought it might be the huge smile on my face when I say Yisler. Yeah. Because you can hear a smile, of course. You can. You can, it's true. Do you think it is pronounced the OFB Cup? Yeah, I think so. It's not going to be the OFB or something, is it? Well, it will be that, yeah. I always like the way that. It's a stir, right, isn't it? That will be what the OFB is. Because our friend's writer of this piece, Seb Stafford Blort, he lives in Hamburg and he's always saying, "Hi, Esfer." To refer to HSV Hamburg. Wow, I believe it's Vow. Hi Esfer. Hi Esfer. Yeah, yeah. EarthBur. Anyway. OFB. OFB. OFSELTBAY. They won the Austrian Bundesliga anyway. A domestic double, very impressive. Right, picking up again. But that was all still to come when, during an interview, with DeStandard, I think that's the standard. I think you might not know. I'm just. I'm reaching, but the standard. He was asked about what Matthias Jisler, the player, a highly regarded modern centre-back whose career was wrecked by injury, would have made of Matthias Jisler the coach. Yes, John? Before we get to that quote, I wondered what would Joe divine the child have made of Joe divine the adult? Because that's essentially what's being asked here. Deeply disappointed, I'd say. You think? I think so. Yeah. What do you think Joe divine the child would have had in terms of aspirations for the future? Well, I think some kind of artistic expression would have wanted. Across that one, off, can't we? I think he probably would have wanted a lot more money than I have. When you were a kid, like a really young kid, what did you want to do? I don't remember. You don't remember. I don't really remember my life. No, unfortunately. Can you remember what you wanted to do when you were like? Oh, I knew that one of my early jobs, one desire, and I didn't have this job, was to be working as a zoo, to be the rhino keeper in a zoo. Oh, the rhino keeper? Well, I think because I'm a tall boy as well. I wasn't one of those boys that had a late growth spot. I was always tall. So I think maybe I thought, I'm a big boy, I should be with the big animals, the rhino. You destined for the rhino. Yeah, what about you? I'm priest. I don't know when I was a real agent though. Yeah, I guess I suppose I thought I would go into academia and we all have to bear our disappointments, don't we? At the age when I wanted to be a zoo keeper, you didn't want to be an academic, no, was it footballer? No, I don't think so. I think I was always fairly sanguine over my chances of not being a footballer. Yeah, even though you have the lower half of Ednazzar. It's true. And I keep it in the freezer or whatever the joke is here. Sure. I don't know. That's one of those sorts of stories that someone has to tell you. Right, like you said, no one really remembers from that part of their life, do they? No. I have arguments with my brother all the time who claims to have memories from when he's like six months old and doesn't seem to understand that like having a story told to him about what happened to him. Right. It doesn't constitute a legitimate memory for himself. Well, it's also the memory of the photo is the thing that we have a lot, right? I watched a great film last night by Italian director Paolo Sodendino. You have to say it like that. Paolo Sodendino. And he's made some fantastic films. This one was like quite an autobiographical film. So it was about him when he was younger. He's like 16, well, he's a fictionalized character. He's 16 when he's younger. And all these horrible things happen to him and he decides he wants to be a filmmaker. And he meets this other filmmaker, a director on the streets of Napoli, who's this abrupt, angry man who just says it how it is. And one of the things he says is, what have you got to say? And this young Paolo doesn't have any idea what he wants to say. And he says, that's what you have to work out what you want to say. You know? And I haven't done that either. It is interesting how we narrate ourselves to ourselves. A lot of the things that we do when we cover these articles for the athletic are like the TSC Eisler. You're talking about people talking about other people, right? And obviously we have to portray it as this is just a completely uncomplicated thing. What do you think of this person? And they say, this is what I think. And you're like, well, on face value, that's fine. But it is complicated to even come to terms of what you think of other people and yourself in many respects. It's usually also what you think of this person is that they're shit at their job. Yeah. Which is obviously not true either. Well, and obviously even the really bad ones are still really good. Yeah, but also like when someone comes along, a journalist then asks you about a person. You're going to say generally nice things about them in this context, right? I mean, I think maybe you wouldn't, if someone asked about me, you would. Oh, for sure. I'd rather go in the other direction. This guy can't make a decision for a lot of normally. Yeah, stuff like that. But I always kind of find that aspect as well. I wonder if you were to ask them, if you were friends with these people and be like, what do you actually think of them off the record? Right. But there will not be a big divergence between what they said. Well, there's a lot of. I mean, this piece is what people that know Matias Yisler thought of him. Yeah. This is the first ones from him, though, right? It's just as a reminder. We'll pick up here. But the reminder, what he's about to say is a journalist asked him, what the player he would think of the manager he, that doesn't make any sense, but you don't want him saying. Anyway, here's what he said. The player he. I simply come to terms with what he just said. The player that he was, what he would think of the manager he became, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is he, he speaking to. He's just kidding. And I. He says, "I think they would have gone along quite well," he replied. "As a coach, I always try to put myself in the players' shoes and to understand what's important to them. And I try to maintain a clear approach both on and off the pitch. With me, you quickly know where you stand. Communication is really important to all my dealings with the lads. That's what I appreciate it as a player, too." "This is an interview." in Death Standard as you've said. So this is a German quote that's been translated into English. I wonder what with the Lads is in German. I think it's probably Miss Dynahart Ladsons. Nice. But I do love the fact that whenever you have any interview with a coach and they talk about the players, whatever language they're speaking, they will say some. The Lads. Absolutely. Okay, picking up. Yisler's coaching lineage is impressive. He played for Thomas Tuchel as a teenager in Stuttgart's youth teams. Then for Ralph Ragnick as a senior professional at Huffenheim. After knee and Achilles injuries forced Yisler into retirement in his mid-20s, Ragnick absorbed him into the Red Bull Network where he undertook a coaching internship. Got his break as Sebastian Hurnes' assistant with Leipzig's under-16 team and was hot-housed among the dozen or so. Oh no, the New York Times wants me to update my computer. I'll just. I'll say tomorrow, tomorrow, New York Times. Okay. And was hot-housed. That's where I was. That's right. Among the dozen or so excellent coaches who've emerged from that network in the years since. Yes, John. I thought it might be good to have a conversation about the Red Bull coaching pathway at this point because I don't know, it's quite easy to just throw it out there and be like, yeah, the Red Bull school or whatever. I don't know. It gives you wings. Yeah. But obviously that's it. Except actually you play very centrally. Has anyone ever made that observation before? It has been made as a joke I'm afraid. I thought the goal is in the middle. I think that's the Jesse Marshquote. It's been a long time, obviously, since the Red Bull Network has written that, I'll use that sort of burst onto the scene. And obviously when people talk about it, they're mainly thinking about RBI Leipzig, right? Yeah. At the top of that network. And RBI Leipzig, I think, you know, looking back on it, have been pretty disappointing as a project from the Red Bull point of view. And in fact, often when you're talking about successful coaches coming out of the Red Bull school, you're talking about coaches you probably have been at Salzburg. Mainly because I did it. Is it the Goldilocks effect that, you know, they've got smaller teams that feed into Salzburg and then Salzburg is supposed to feed into RBI Leipzig. Yeah. It almost feels like the sweet spot is RBI Salzburg, so they get a lot of joy out of that. But is that also just because Salzburg are so much better than the other teams in their league? Yeah, I think it definitely is. And that's part of the sweet spot, I think, that you're you're probably accelerating really good players through that and using it as a finishing school before then moving on to moving them onto the Bundesliga. But I feel as though the RBI Leipzig have never really lived up to the potential of what they were set up because they were supposed to be the peak, right? And the whole idea is you have this multi club, what do they call it? Multi club group, multi club, a multi club, a multi club universe, a multi club universe, I think. Multi club, I think it's called MC, multi club ownership group. Oh, MCO, that's a multi club ownership. Yeah, that's why I'm getting confused. It's the beginning of a news that took us a while to get there. Yeah, it's true. We have forgotten how to think and speak. But the whole point is that you're, yeah, you're supposed to get all of these economies of scale that you can then just work up to the and, you know, the Red Bull group brought loads of young players and put them through their pathways. And the idea is that you should be able to just slot them into your system, whichever league is ready for them to improve at. You're all playing the same kind of football. And in theory, you should just be able to funnel them all the way to the top. But at the very top, it didn't really ever seem to work, which I guess raises a question. The Bundesliga is so much more competitive. I mean, what were they supposed to be the second best team in the Bundesliga? Because they were never, no one never really thought they were going to were clipped by and did they? I don't know. I think early on people would have thought, oh, here we go. This is going to be like Chelsea. Yeah, right. And I think that's partly why Arby Leipzig were so negatively perceived at first. Obviously, there's the 50 plus one stuff as well, which they kind of ran roughshod over a little bit. I mean, very much. Yeah, very much. But I think, you know, looking back on the Red Bull edifice, it's sort of not ever lived up to the potential that they set out for it. But it's really interesting then to bring it back to the Arby coaching pathway that people talk about is that you do get some people who come out of that pathway being sort of disciples for the, it's almost like, you know, when people, when people sort of convert to Catholicism late in life, they become kind of zealots for Catholicism. They're really like real Catholic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They go further because they have to prove to the other Catholics that they've been through. And there's a few, I think there's a few Red Bull coaches like that. I think Jesse Marsh is like the classic example where it's almost like he evangelises about the the doctorate. It's the doctorate. Yeah, right. Whereas I think some of the other coaches that you see coming through further down, especially Salzburgs, I'm thinking like even just someone like Oliver Glausner, who was there more indirectly, there's quite a few coaches who were a bit more indirect. Marco Rosa did, or did he go there later? Yeah, Marco Rosa is an interesting one. But I think there's a lot of coaches as well who come out of there and they aren't actually quite so, right, like hard line as maybe the extreme, the not radical. Ironically enough, I think Ralph Ragnick isn't actually as radical as maybe people expect him to be as the, as the sort of Pope of the Arby. He's the Archonelite, isn't he? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. But I think even if you, and that might be a really interesting interview for someone to speak to him about like Red Bull network 10 years on, what, like where would he have changed his mind about things and done things differently. But I also think in part, that's because, you know, if you have that hard core approach to the tactical side of things, then potentially you limit yourself and what's kind of interesting will get to that in the pieces that I think Jaisler has been a little bit softer sometimes. Well, when he was in, when he was an al-Achle for example, he had an older squad. He was playing in Saudi Arabia so the heat becomes an issue. Yeah, you can't really ride bull in the heat. Yeah, you have to be a bit more, you have to drink a little more. You have to drink a little more. Prognostic, that's true. Water also gives you wings. Yeah, very much so when you were, when, hey, when you're in the middle of the desert, water gives you everything. Okay, shall I pick up? Yeah. Asked for their memories of Jaisler at that time in his life, Leipzig employees from across the coaching staff and other departments remember a humble, focused and hardworking person who wanted to absorb everything in the environment. Tactically, most understand what he means. Jaisler wants quick, ambitious use of the ball, a high feverish press and maximum physical commitment in every phase. In attacking positions, he wants playmakers who use instinct and imagination to create opportunities, rather than relying on pre-designed mechanical phases. Togetherness and teamwork matter, but not to the exclusion of individuality. Among those who worked with him or under him at youth or senior level, Jaisler is described as an excellent man-manager who gives his players and staff agency. On the touch line, the 38-year-old is loud, abrasive and burns with main character energy. That's deceptive though, his new castle will be a collaborative project. Yes, John. That's MCO, not MCO, main character energy. Well, I was going to interrupt myself at this point in reference to main character energy because I listened to Seb Stafford Blort, the writer of this piece, talking about him. Jaisler is well, I can't remember which podcast he said this on, but somewhere he described him, he said he'll be in addition to the Premier League in terms of drama because he will, like other fans of other teams, will hate him, is the way that Seb described it because of how he will handle himself on the touch line. He said that he reminds him quite a lot of Fabian Herzler, Brighton's coach, in terms of personality in the way that he will be quite blunt and upset people without necessarily intending to. So I think it could be quite fun. I did notice that when he did his first press conference with Newcastle, he went in and shook hands with all of the journalists to a present which I think sort of set you up for that kind of thing. It's a real big dog thing to do though, when you could grasp people's hands firmly and staring. And then you have to squeeze really hard. Yeah, come on then. Absolutely. Okay, picking up here. Zlatko Junozovic is a former Austrian international midfielder who spent four years at Toutsburg and played for Jaisler during the final season of his career when Junozovic was a 34-year-old veteran within a young squad that included Karamadi Amy, Noah Okafor, Benim and Cheshko and Brendan Eronson. Yes, sir. I was just going to make an observation that three of those players now play in the Premier League and the other one is at Barcelona. Just sign for it. Yeah, right. And again, I think in terms of like improving players, I think there's obviously all of these players have worked with different coaches, but I think it's you can get a sense of it. I think both just the sort of level of player that was coming through Assaultsburg, but also the improvement that was made on those players as well in that period. Where does Okafor play? Leads. Leads. That's just Brendan Eronson, which maybe slightly detracts more of just saying, but let's ignore that. Okay, this is Junozovic's quote here. He says, "He was still relatively young as a coach when he joined us. He's actually six months younger than me, but you could already tell that he had a clear plan and good body language. He brings a winning mentality and isn't afraid to make tough decisions. He's communicative and tries to explain his decisions to the players in a straightforward way. He's now gained a lot of experience having won the Asian Champions League twice, and he's working with big name players which shows he can handle them just as well as young ones." Yes, John. So, yeah, the Asian Champions League has been won by Al Atley in the last couple of seasons, which he was the first coach to win the competition. And this is the Saudi Al Atley, not the Egyptian Al Atley, that's right. That's a real achievement. Yeah, it is. So I was looking through the winners of the Asian club championship in the 70s and 80s and becomes the AFC Champions League. There are a few Saudi teams who won it. Al-Halal have won it four times. They're the team that won it the most. Al-Ati had one too. So it's not just the case that they're the first Saudi team to win it, but they were obviously coming into that market and he's done quite well there. I just wondered if he wanted to hazard a guess at any other AFC Champions League winners. It's actually tough. It's actually tough. I think now I'm thinking about it. Is there a Japanese team? There's a few Japanese teams. Is there an agor-grampus that they won? I can't see an agor-grampus on this list. Okay, what about. Oh, oh, oh, oh! Koshima Antlers. Yes, that's nice. I got one. There's a couple of Chinese teams as well as Australian. I don't think I can get anymore, John. Can you tell me them? Am I going to kick myself when I know them? I don't think there's many that you're going to kick yourself in not knowing. Sydney. West and Sydney wanderers. West I've never heard of that. I mean, but Guangzhou Evergrande. Evergrande. They're gone now, aren't they? They are, but they won it in that period. Yeah. Erawa Red Dylons. John Boo. Erawa Red Diamonds. I've never heard of them. John Book High on Dymotors. Okay. Al Aine. Ty Farmers Bank. Don't remember them winning in the 90s. Ty Farmers Bank. In the 1990s, I don't know if they're still a team. I do not remember that. There you go. There's some of them. But yeah, so I think quite impressive. I did okay to get one. Yeah, and I think, you know, quite impressive to have a couple in a row. Obviously, there's been an influx of talent into the Saudi leagues. So that's the caveat there. Yeah. There's plenty of teams in Saudi who have lots of good players. And he was the one that took them and won. So yeah, I think it was a really good performance from him. Got it. I'll pick up here. That is a Ragnic quality. And that's going to be confusing. But that's the quote I was just reading before. That's what his player said about him. That's a Ragnic quality. Being clear and definitive, having complete conviction in a strategy and fostering team unity across different generations. Yisler has said in previous interviews that forthright coaching helped him when he was a player. And it's for good reason that he's tried to replicate that trait. The agent of a player who's worked with the isolate at a young age explains more. He doesn't treat young players just as young players, the agent says. Some coaches divide their squad into leaders and talents and behave differently towards them. But he speaks to young players with respect and holds them accountable for their standards, just like he does with the older ones. That makes them responsible on the pitch, but also off it as well. And that's really important at a young age. Among all the people the athletic spoke to about Yisler's coaching, each one made reference to his capacity to build successful teams while also nurturing the individual players within them. His time at Salzburg also involved in interesting duality. Domestically, the club held a significant advantage over their competition. But that was inverted in the Champions League, where they were often the underdog. Tactically, it left the side facing a deep defense in the league, but in Europe, particularly against the strongest sides, having to counter punch. Yes, John, I knew you would interrupt at this stage. Yeah, well, I was going to say this is kind of interesting with Newcastle as well, right? Because this is the story for me. Right. Because Newcastle going to face good teams and teams that they are expected to be at the same time. Because of where Newcastle are in their journey to use that phrase. I think it's clear that obviously their aim over the last five years, however long it's been since the Saudi project took over, has been to try and be one of the big boys. And I think there's been a painful realization that at least in the current systems and structures, that's not easy. That hasn't been possible. I think the last two summer transfer windows, I'll use their word again, have been painful. But seeing the leakage of talent, being the drain, they're all going out to big six teams, it's very clear where it leaves Newcastle. And that is to say, nowhere above Villa, nowhere below, right? It's like they are very, very much in that second run down. And so I do wonder the hiring of a coach like this, I'm also given to understand from listening to the reporting of Georgian Chris, the athletics Newcastle reporters, that Newcastle, at least the way that they tell the story, they wanted Matthias Yisler, right? This isn't like some random guy who coached in Saudi that was, you know, a replacement for a surprise exit for a MediHau. I think it might be those things as well. But the way that they're talking about it, this is a guy who they think has a huge coaching career ahead of him. It's easy maybe for us to look at him and think, "Wait, he was just in Saudi, he can't be that good, right? That's the instinct." Yeah. But I don't know if that's true or not. I mean, I have no idea, I've never watched any of his teams play. But that, he comes from the Red Bull School, and that style of football, I think, often is designed to, you know, you talk about this a lot in your book, maybe to destabilize like more elite forms of football. Maybe on some level, this is like some acknowledgement, some recognition, in the way that Newcastle had with Eddie Hau, they haven't replaced Eddie Hau with a manager who wants to play elite, like possession-based football. Yeah. They've replaced Eddie Hau with a manager who wants to f*** it up against the bigger teams, and who's a young person who also has a personality that seems to go along with that as well. So I think, I don't know whether any of that is conscious or not, but that's what's interesting to me about it, imagining where Newcastle go now. Yeah, there's a lot of interesting stuff in there. One of which I think is, I think that the Saudi ownership will look at someone like Yisler and think, we actually have privileged information on a guy who's in our market, who maybe is undervalued by the rest of European football. And we've seen what he's done at Al-Athley, and you know, you can't deny that he took a, it's sort of fairly belts and braces squad with like older players with obviously loads of talent, but then having to fit other younger players around them as well. Yeah. And they'll see that, and they'll say this is a guy who, you know, we are going to go into a period now where we are going to have to do a bit of belts and braces like squad building. So they've probably gone for that. Colleges add, it's also worth, I forgot to include this, but it's also worth pointing out that this wasn't like a favor, like they paid quite a lot of money in compensation to get him. So I think the other thing is people think, one Newcastle, Ronan by Saudi Arabia, he manages a Saudi team, it's like, it's all in the family, he just moves across. Yeah, right. No, they paid something like £10 million to get him, right? So it's not, it isn't, you know, it wasn't just a freebie. And that's worth mentioning as well, because I know there's a lot, there was a lot of clubs, good clubs in Europe who were interested in Yisler, but were put off by the fact that they were having to pay out that amount of money just to get him, right? So I guess looking at it from afar, it almost felt as though, oh, you know, he, and you know, he's been open about this and said, I went to Saudi for the money, but he's gone there and he's done a good job, but it did look as though he'd sort of pigeon-hold himself then to a situation where it was going to be hard for him to leave. So actually for him, I think Newcastle represents a really good way out there, because someone will pay out his clause, he's now in the European market. But the other thing I was going to say is that what I think so interesting about this is that what we've been talking about is a Salzburg team who did have to break down lower blocks or teams who were not as good. And I feel as though that's the air. That's the dominant team. Yeah, and I feel as though that's still applicable to Newcastle. I think last season you could argue that Newcastle were, I mean, Newcastle were pretty poor across the board, but they struggled to win those games against the teams that they should be beating. Yeah. That's the more concerning thing, I think, for Newcastle's owners, rather than, okay, you'll take a season where you're losing to the big clubs and you're like, okay, fine, whatever the big clubs. When you're struggling to beat teams at the other end of the table, that's when you kind of think, we need a different approach here and I think, yeah, I still a little give them that. This is also a completely new team because, okay, maybe the player turnover hasn't been huge, but in terms of the key areas. Sandra Tarnelli and Bruno Gimera are going, there's a section in your book which is about Deserbi's first and second season at Brighton and there's the reference scene. I found it funny when I read it because it's all about the deep tactical strategy behind what happened with Deserbi at Brighton, but then there's a little reference to halfway through his time that they lose Moisés Caiseido and they lose Alexis McAllister from the midfield and you go, "Oh yeah, just two of the best players on the league." That's just what happens in Newcastle. Brighton finished sixth in that first season and they finished 11th in the second season, right? I feel like we're under, maybe underplaying or have done in our conversations on podcasts about this. That's just, I mean, they've lost their two best players. They're gone. It's funny because I did the same area of the pitch they're gone. I agree because we're going to be worse next season, right? Yeah, inevitably. Well, I don't know. I kind of feel like they might be better, but I think the two things are true, right? You lose those two players and it impacts you. It just does, right? But the other thing is that actually looking through their squad, it's a good squad. I think there's teams with worse squad situations than that Newcastle team and yeah, they've had to make some like gambles in the market with young players, so I think that's definitely true. It's definitely a squad that needs to mature. But I think you get impacted by players leaving, but you also get impacted by, for example, a manager joining. And I think there's an argument to be made that actually just having a fresh perspective, new ideas, new coach coming in could bring that. And you know, I've watched a couple of Newcastles preseason games in preparation for this. The beat Valencia, albeit there was a red card for Valencia who went on the lap and watched them lose to Everton as well, which, you know, was a sort of very Evertony game. And you know, this is the thing, right? Everton sit in block for a long period and hit on the break right? It's the evidence that's got to be. Those have to be. So it's going to become indicative, I think of his time. I think how he performs in those kind of games where you're playing against teams where they're. And the Premier League is now so monied that teams like Everton, they don't care about playing good football necessarily. They're just going to be like, "We're going to sit deep, "we're going to stay in this league. "All we have to do is survive." And it makes life hard for these, I don't want to say pretentious. But the pretenders at middle class football who want to be in that elite level, right? - The trials. - Yeah, exactly. - Have they got Europe next season? Any Europe? - They do not. - They do not have any Europe. - No. Okay. - So there's that. So it's a nice. But I think that, again, we keep talking about this in the preparation for the season kicking off. There's a lot of teams in this situation where actually feels as though the expectations on them are quite low, relatively speaking. It's kind of like, we've got a new manager, we've got had a huge amount of squad turnover, we don't have Europe, we're sort of between things. Like, you know, are we going to be in European contention? Is this just about solidifying ourselves in the mid-table? So hopefully they'll give you a similar time to sort of settle on that, because it does feel like this weirdly an end of an era. No one really talks about that when it's not like your pet quaddealers or your yog and clocks, but Eddie Howard's been there for a long time. Eddie Howard has become the face of Newcastle finishing in the European spots. And he's not there anymore, and they'll need to reinvent themselves after that too. So yeah, hopefully they'll give him a bit of time. - Okay. - Let's have a quick break. And when we come back, we'll carry on reading. Okay, right, picking up here. It was one of the compelling parts of Salzburg's progress in the Champions League. During the 2021-22 season, for instance, when they caught by a Munich out with a lightning quick attacking move full of quick touches in a one-all draw. Everything went badly wrong in the second leg of that last 16 tie, and Salzburg were thrashed, but understanding how to take chances against the big sides was a trait they developed. The following season, the beginning of what would be Yisler's last at the club, Salzburg were drawn in a group with Milan and Chelsea. They drew one all with the Italians in their first game before heading to Stanford Bridge for their second. The night is better remembered for being the first match of Graham Potter's ill-fated tenure, but it also showed more of what have been growing at Yisler's Salzburg. Midway through the second half, Chelsea led 1-0 and had controlled the ball for much of the game. Salzburg defended resolutely, packing their box and limiting their opponents mainly to half chances. But when their hosts briefly lost their footing, they took advantage. Salzburg turned the ball over on the halfway line, sliced through the heart of Chelsea's midfield, and eight touches later, Ock-o-Four equalized. Those two European seasons showed a team and their coach becoming smarter together and understanding how to chisel out results against the odds. It was also progress made with some very young players. In that Chelsea game, three members of Yisler's front six were 20 or younger, two others were 22. The oldest was 24. Yes, John. Quick quiz. All you want to name the Chelsea team that they faced that night? Oh, God. And what year are we talking about again? 21-22. This is Graham Potter's Chelsea. OK, Mason Mount. Mason Mount is in the team. He's in the team. That's just before he leaves to go to Manchester United, right? OK, was Kante in the team? Kante was not in-- He was gone by that point, was he? Moise's Kaiseda presumably hadn't arrived yet. Enzo Fernandez hadn't arrived yet, either. OK. So-- [LAUGHS] I'm trying to-- God, the turn of his crazy, isn't it? Yeah, so there is current-- Trevor Chalibur. Is not there. I think there's only one player on the pitch who is still at Chelsea. Who's still there? Yeah. There is-- I'm trying to think who their current goal is. Three players in this list who have played for Arsenal since then. And one who played for Arsenal before then. Was William there? No, that's far too late. That's far too late. 60 million down the drain. Can I have it at the scores again? Oh my god, can I have it at the front? Can I have it at the front? Next to other Arsenal striker, Pierre, Henry-- And Rick Obama, yeah. No, the sterling hadn't gone there by that way. The sterling was still there, yeah. The sterling was there. Obviously went to Arsenal on the ill-fated loan. And then a midfielder who played for Arsenal fairly regularly after this point for a seat-- well, relatively regularly. And since left had a spat with Chapel Rowan. Giorgini, yeah. It's Giorgini. Oh my god, I forgot all about Giorgini. Well, that can make you know-- Manchester City midfielder. Coverage? Coverage? Yeah, I was going to say Coverage. Player who's moved around Madrid this summer. Cucurrea? Player who is older than me, who moved back to Brazil. Just after this. Oh. Alex Sandro. T.R.G. Silver. And then another legend Spanish player played as a full back for Ann Wings. Oh, it says Ahsby the Quetz. Yeah. I should have got it says Ahsby the Quetz. Alhibah, alhibah. Ah, Kemper, Adiah, alhibah. And the player who is still there, Reese James. Reese James. Who's always been there. He's like the character from the shining. He looks at himself in every photo. I was injured in 1913. All right, that was a hard quiz. It shouldn't have been-- It's crazy how-- Different. I think it's just Chelsea, isn't it? It's like-- Right. Picking up here. Yisler is an assured character. Brash, some of his critics say. But you know of which sees value in that demeanor. In general, Matthias is on the calmer, more composed side. And he comes across as confident, even when the tension is enormous, he says. I think he can handle pressure. He will also help Newcastle. The wrote to Newcastle has passed through Saudi Arabia. Yisler's decision to leave Salzburg for Alahli in July 2023 brought him great wealth and fierce criticism. In the football community, it was understandably questioned. A former Bundesliga Turek-Nikol-Durekter. A Turek-Nikol-Durek-- That sounds like a dinosaur, isn't it? A former Bundesliga Turek-Nikol-Durekter-- That's Turek-Nikol-Durekter-- Who never worked with Yisler, but was aware of his burgeoning reputation, tells the athletic, I was thinking, a crazy decision. The money, OK, but the guys who go there are usually old. They've done their career. When you go away so young, football can forget you, and it becomes hard to come back. His coaching stock was one issue, but the move to Alahli came with challenges, too. The squad he inherited was a blend of very famous, very well-paid stars, Roberta Fumino, Foncessier, Alessamaxi-Man, and Edouard Mendi. And then more modest, Saudi players. It was a strange chemistry that required a delicate touch. When I arrived, Yisler remembered, when speaking to the athletic early in 2026, I was determined that I wasn't going to treat big stars differently from how I'd treated the young players in Salzburg. I was going to lead them in the same way, treat them with respect, and ask for their commitment, and hold everyone to the same standard. At the same time, if you have players who've been in the big leagues, you need to show appreciation for what they've already achieved. Ultimately, the past three years have been successful. Yisler won the AFC Champions League twice, capturing the first and second continental trophies in Alahli's history. But his performance needs proper framing. Wail Javier is a Saudi Arabia-based journalist. When understanding Yisler's time at Alahli, it's important to know the context, he says. When he left, he was actually the longest serving manager in the league, even though he'd only been three years. Saudi clubs are not known to afford managers a lot of time, especially at the top, whenever there is an instant success. In fact, in the entire history of the league, only one coach has lasted more than three years. I can't believe you're not ringing your bell at this stage, John. That's it. Even if just to go, that's absolutely insane. Only one coach in the history of the Saudi pro league has lasted more than three years. That is insane. And it's sort of the way that we're going in the Premier League as well. But Newcastle fans should be positive, I think, because of that. Because it's clear that you don't go into that kind of environment as an idealistic coach and say it's my way or the highway and then get through it. If you're not going to be pragmatic and flexible, you're not going to survive. So I think that puts them in pretty good stead when it comes to him coming in at Newcastle and having to make this squad work. Yeah. Okay. Yisler is familiar with what it's like to survive a downturn in form between his two Asian Champions League wins. Only a protest by fans outside the club's headquarters stopped him from being replaced by Massimiliano Allegri, the former Juventus and Milan head coach, with whom Allegri agreed terms before reversing their position and bowing to that pressure. Yes, John? It's worth saying as well since then, an Allegri was hired and fired by AC Milan as well. Right. He lasted less time than Yisler. Can you think of another scenario where a fan base has protested in favor of keeping a manager during a downturn? I mean, that's crazy. I mean, they obviously really like the guy. Yeah. I can't think of a similar example. Yeah, but I suppose if you think about it, like this is between winning two Asian Champions leagues. And maybe that we're protesting against a legary rather than four Yisler. I don't know. Yeah, but I don't know. Maybe this isn't a great analogy, but could you imagine if like, Arterta won the Champions League last summer and then struggles before Christmas and the board were talking about him going? Yeah. You might conceivably think of him. I think if it's a bad example there, because I think Arsenal fans would have been screaming from September to get rid of him. I'm just joking, of course. Of course. I'm thinking of Kair and my mind is out of words. Yeah, he has become the sort of blank slate tabular as I ask not to fan in my head. He's our asked not to. Where's someone who says, "Think of an asked not to fan." I'm like, "Ah, not that guy creeping into my self-consciousness." Okay, picking up. - Insecurity is a fact of life for any head coach of one of the-- - It's an interesting start, that sentence. - Insecurity is a fact of life. - It's at the beginning of a ransom though, isn't it? For any head coach of one of the teams owned and operated by Saudi Arabia's Private Investment Fund, which of course owns the majority of Newcastle. Al Nasser, another, have just made Angepasta Koglu their fifth coach in three years. Other common difficulties include the heat, a natural enemy of any high pressing coach, and in his particular case, a squad with flaws. Yes, sir. - It's funny, isn't it, that we've just talked about the isolus surviving three years in the Saudi league, and that being testament to his flexibility and lack of idealism. Angepasta Koglu, on the other hand, is probably gonna test that sooner rather than - Yeah, he thinks so, right. - Well, it'd be good, and it'd be good in indication of how much he learned from his time in the past. - I worry about the heat boys. Just get out there. - Oh, that's just how we play, mate. (laughing) - His quote from Javier, that journalist. He still hadn't quite built a team in his image, despite the two AFC Champions League titles, says Javier. He was getting there, but a latterly was still not the perfect Yaisala team. It didn't have weaknesses as such, but there were a few positions in which they were not quite right. He didn't really have the right midfield. He had to rely on Kessier playing a double role as both a defensive midfielder and boxer-box player. Likewise, he had Riyad Mahrez as his right-winger, who was not his ideal player in that position. Yaisala likes a winger who works hard without the ball and tracks back to support defensively, as well as contributing to the attack. There was a sense of unfinished business. Yaisala never won the Saudi pro league, his highest finish was third, and he's leaving it precisely the moment he was best placed to change that. - Yes, John. - I'm really thought about this, I wonder whether or not he is a better cop coach than he is a league coach. - I wonder, well, on the evidence of three seasons, you might say yes. - He went deep in the Champions League, when he was with Salzburg and then, there's one, the Asian Champions League as well. Yeah, maybe, and I wonder whether or not that was a conscious conversation that a team like Newcastle might have. 'Cause I was winning some more stuff. - Yeah, just win, 'cause they obviously won the Carabout Cup right against Liverpool. Whether or not they just thought, let's just, I always think of this. Like if you are one of those teams in the mid table, like one of the best ways of keeping your fans happy is like winning the cups that are available to you. - And getting into Europe as well, right? If you can't get in the Champions League, doing it that way. Not to, I mean, Crystal Palace just did that. - Yeah. Portuguese International, Francisco Trinkau, had just joined the club from sporting and will replace Mares. Gifted Armenian Edward Spetsien. - Spetsien, do you think? - Yeah, you're on your own on that one of the free. - Yeah, I don't know, yeah. - Anyway, Edward Spetsien completed a move from Krasnodar in the Russian Premier League in July two and will alleviate some of the issues in midfield. Unfortunately, says Javier, he's leaving at a time when Alachli were very much favourites to win the league. And it's difficult to know precisely what he's joining. The bright lights of the Premier League and a vast club, of course, but Newcastle have sold Sandra to Nali and Anthony Gordon this summer and are about to lose Bruno Gimariish too. This was obviously written in the past. Well, Bazaumin Torre, Sean Stur and Lucas Hornichek, who's the Czech National Gokkiber, I think, isn't he? Are among the young players to have arrived? This is what it was like doing the audiobook for your book, by the way, just reading and going, "No, that's not right. Are among the young players to have arrived?" That's right. And there's work to do before the season begins. - Do you think it is Sean Sturstoward? I don't know, like he's a Dutch player, right? - It's written as Sean. - C-A-N and then S-T-E-U-R-Sturstoward. - Sean Sturstoward. - I mean, it must be Sean, what else is it going to be? C-N. - I don't know, like. - Sian. Sian's jar. Should we find out? - Yeah, we could do. - Hold on, I'll find out right now. - This is just me, this is not me being annoying. I literally have thought about it. I've seen his name written down a lot. I've never heard anyone say it. - Yeah, no, no, I agree. Let's find out. Here we go. How to pronounce Sean Sturstoward. This is a. Oh, this is him, this is him. - Nice. - On the new car. - Can't say fairer than that, can you? - No, you can't. On Newcastle's own YouTube channel. - Sean Sturstoward. - Sean Sturstoward. - Sean Sturstoward. - He said sort of Sean though, didn't he? - No, he said Sean Sturstoward. Sean Sturstoward. - That's a great name. - That's what I'm saying. Sean Sturstoward. - That's like an American saying Sean though, doesn't it? - Not quite as good as Lucas Hornageek though, you know? - Not quite up there. Okay, we're on the home straight now. Just two more paragraphs. And I've just had to scroll past a, quite a tall on the desktop. It's quite a tall vertical video of Papa Onstein. There he is. They're looking good. Okay. But Yester will have no shortage of confidence. That's the other common observation by those who've worked with him will come across him on this journey. Alongside the focus and meticulous preparation, they describe someone of tremendous self-belief. Occasionally, that's rubbed people the wrong way. But Newcastle could currently use the power of that personality and the other virtues of a man who remains among the most highly regarded young coaches in European football. There we go. That was Seb Stafford Blore on Matthias Matias. I'm so sorry, I got to the Matias Yisler by those who've worked with him and watched him closely. I'm very excited for the Newcastle this season. I can't wait to see what happens, John. - Yeah, I think it's going to be great. And I think that's true for a lot of clubs in the Premier League. Anyone can get it. Anyone can get it. All right, we'll be back next week with more. Until then, bye. Bye. (upbeat music)