Riley Keough: Nepo babies, Addiction & Grief (FBF)

what is up daddy gang it is your founding father alex cooper with call her daddy riley kyo welcome to call her daddy thank you i am such a big fan thank you for being here thank you for having me of course i huge daisy jones and the six oh cool like binged the whole thing and really loved it thanks for watching my husband was like all right you could take a break i'm like no no it's kind of one of those where you just got to get keep going yeah i got to get to the end it was awesome what was your favorite part of playing that role i think getting to learn like to sing and play guitar was my favorite part because it was that i think that's one of my favorite things about acting in general is learning like a whole new skill set and this one was like very in like normally you do a few rehearsals or do if you're you know training to do i don't know to be a dancer or whatever i don't know like i've never done something so involved like i haven't had to fully learn to like sing and play guitar uh so i i found that really fun wait you were doing like full voice lessons we were doing yeah like we had band practice every day and it was like a year long um but we needed it like none of us not none of us a few of us had never picked up an instrument and or saying was there ever a point in your life that you would have considered a music career never no never no i still would never i'm not a singer i feel like you have a good voice unless they auto it's fine they didn't auto tune it but i have a fine voice i just got by but i i uh i'm a realist and i know i'm not a singer the fact that you're telling me they didn't edit your voice you have a good voice they didn't edit it i think you call them they're like oh babe that shit was auto tuned i think they i don't think they auto tuned i think the whole point was because it was meant to sound 1970s that you wouldn't do that yeah yeah you sounded gorgeous okay lean i i felt proud that i was able to do it because there was like a conversation uh about potentially getting like vocal stunt doubles or something oh my god and so i felt really determined to make it work and i feel proud we made it work you know i i girl i don't think i'm like the best singer in the world and i you know that's fine you made it work with fly i made it work um i love how you're like oh like i no no i like never sang from my research you and dakota johnson were in a band together in new york city don't lie to my face this is so funny this comes up so often and like i think that we need to do something here because yes we were in a band but the band was me and her sitting with her brother around a table in her apartment in new york with photo booth like doing covers of songs but here's the thing neither of us were confident singers so we would just kind of like all sing together oh so you were you were all competing for like the lead role all the lead you're all the lead yeah wait what was the band called folky porn folky perfect for color daddy wait i'm obsessed i had a band at one point and i was like so committed you really yeah but it was so bad what did you do so yeah well here's the thing you know i i started i started doing a lot of music and i started doing a lot of music and i started as like the electric guitarist cool but that is like loosely saying that the only song electric guitar yeah i relate i'm a loose guitar player i like looked incredible holding it okay but the minute i would get going it was i was giving nothing right i knew how to play the like whatever that song is i could do those like three little things that was all i knew our band was called the alien and i was like oh my god i'm so excited i'm so excited i'm so excited i'm so excited okay it was a big deal it was in my basement and then we changed it to green jelly cool were the other people in the band also loose musicians everyone was loose okay everyone everyone was loose okay we were kind of just there for the vibes yeah our sign was on like printer paper with like a little marker right it was edgy it was the thing i actually paid my neighbors at one point like 25 cents to come watch us perform wow they were upset that we wasted their time so like i'm a big band girl so dakota and i didn't get like that far into it we kind of like it lasted maybe like three days oh my god and uh then it was over the band broke up good to know good to know we how do you guys know each other like when did you become friends uh we became friends because we both grew up in la and just there was some kind of i had a friend who was friends with her boyfriend and we met at like an in and out parking lot and i was like oh my god i'm so excited and then we went to all the same parties in in la at like 16 17 and i'd see her out and about and then i became friends with her boyfriend and then so i went to go see his band play and she was always there and she was like the coolest girl the coolest the coolest and she still is she is and then we just i don't know became friends and don't you love when like people are obsessed with like celebrity friendships we're like no no come on tell us more you're like we're just hung out we're at in and out bitch i think because it makes people feel like closer to you guys of like you guys are obviously both like very cool interesting people and so i think to know that you guys are friends people like i'm like come on give me more tea i can give you tea i just don't really have any but there's anything you can think of i'm gonna get i'm a tea giver okay okay good you did show up today and be like we don't have to cry i i just don't want you to feel pressure i don't want you to feel pressure okay at all if you hate any of my questions let me know okay we can pivot deal okay good um how do you think hey what hey i'm just kidding i'm like let's sit in silence okay i do love that you were 30 minutes old like early and you brought no one yeah can i tell you i've had people come to my studio with like a whole 20 people 10 people five people but the solo solo is a first um here's my answer i'm not like 10 people i'm not like 10 people i'm not like 10 people i'm not like 10 technically on like a press tour right now so i'm not i have i have no problem going places all by myself you know i love that and i like i actually enjoy it i am the same way whenever i go on a podcast which is rare i'm like no one come with me yeah i'm gonna let it rip yeah let god go with me the cool thing about not having a publicist here so i can say whatever i want for sure then she's gonna call you after me like what was it you're like i don't remember we talked for almost an hour like who knows exactly just like i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't let it be you know what i mean it's fine you're not gonna get canceled from this um how would your friends describe you oh my gosh that's such a hard question i don't know i have no idea like in what way like this like like how would they describe you like if dakota was in the room right now like what would she say about you oh we should we could call her also do you want to let's call her hold on that will be fucking funny go get your phone so she didn't answer okay let's call another friend okay all you're asking is how would you describe me as a friend how would you describe me show give me a good answer so do you want them to be famous or not i mean famous is fun famous is more fun okay like i'll call john it's so funny because people every i do this a lot of the time a lot and where people will be like how would your friends or what friends could we speak to about you for this interview and i give like my all my closest friends and they're like but what about like famous ones they're like they're like no no we don't care about cassidy like we don't we don't want you know yeah yeah yeah it's so funny okay should i try to yeah let's give her a go the nepo baby phone i'm a phone book okay yeah okay oh my god hello hi wait you're on air hello i'm chewing sorry so what are you eating what are you eating i'm eating um toast i'm i'm eating raisin toast cinnamon raisin toast with butter okay so i'm on a podcast and they asked me to call a friend to describe how you would describe me as a friend as a friend as a friend i would describe you as a ride or die like you are down for whatever you will always you show up all the time you're very consistent like i feel like me and you will like not talk or see each other for like six months and then it's like we just pick up where we left off and i think you're really good at keeping secrets gonna tell those pod and you're incredibly loyal and you're funny you're funny as hell and you're honest keep going you always text me back that's so cute and it's true i think so you're welcome all right love you love you bye bye one more one more okay you're just you're just like you're such a bitch you're just like a bitch you're a bitch really you think really you're the nicest person in the world okay okay love you too bye i'm obsessed thank you for doing that first of all imagine if you're like i'm just kidding i'm not on a podcast i'm just like feeling needy today keep going yeah right okay those that feels pretty accurate i don't know i didn't really hear much she said i was loyal she said you were loyal i blacked out really good at keeping you're like no no i am on air don't say anything i got nervous of what she was gonna say no all of that was lovely okay and i when she said you were a bitch i'm like that is the complete opposite of what i'm getting you're you are very like gentle soul thank you um i think that i would say i would i am a loyal friend i i do really care about my friends and you know i love hope i i think allegedly allegedly um okay let's talk about the book it is so fascinating like what you wrote about yeah um from here to the great unknown first of all just to like tell the daddy gang my audience like how did this book come to be this book came to be because my mother was um in the middle of writing her autobiography and in december she came to me and she said i'm gonna write a book about you and i'm like okay i'm gonna write a book about you and i'm like okay i'm gonna write a book about you and i'm like okay i'm gonna write a book about you and i'm like okay i'm gonna write a book about you and i'm like okay i'm gonna write a book yes and you know particularly in my family yes and you know particularly in my family yes and you know particularly in my family growing up and with my mom she was growing up and with my mom she was growing up and with my mom she was extremely private she hated talking to extremely private she hated talking to extremely private she hated talking to the press she didn't want to be famous the press she didn't want to be famous the press she didn't want to be famous like she was born into a situation she like she was born into a situation she like she was born into a situation she really didn't enjoy um and growing up really didn't enjoy um and growing up in the the world we grew up in was very in the the world we grew up in was very in the the world we grew up in was very private very secretive very like private very secretive very like private very secretive very like everything was a security issue like everything was a security issue like everything was a security issue like there was no there was no there was no talking to friends about things like our talking to friends about things like our talking to friends about things like our family stuff was family stuff was family stuff was you know everything was very private so you know everything was very private so you know everything was very private so it was it was it was a lot of uh i had to push through a lot of uh i had to push through a lot of uh i had to push through that sort of uncomfortable that sort of uncomfortable that sort of uncomfortable feeling of like sharing all this feeling of like sharing all this feeling of like sharing all this information but the other thing is is information but the other thing is is information but the other thing is is like as a person i'm a very honest like as a person i'm a very honest like as a person i'm a very honest person and person and person and i also couldn't imagine so she like she i also couldn't imagine so she like she i also couldn't imagine so she like she was was was uncomfortably honest so i think i i uncomfortably honest so i think i i uncomfortably honest so i think i i couldn't have imagined a version of her couldn't have imagined a version of her couldn't have imagined a version of her book where she didn't book where she didn't book where she didn't you know share all these things yeah and you know share all these things yeah and like go all in yeah your baby photo like go all in yeah your baby photo like go all in yeah your baby photo was sold for three hundred thousand was sold for three hundred thousand was sold for three hundred thousand dollars on the cover of people magazine dollars on the cover of people magazine dollars on the cover of people magazine like like like that is insane in what's insane is i is that is insane in what's insane is i is that is insane in what's insane is i is like three hundred dollars then was like like three hundred dollars then was like like three hundred dollars then was like three hundred thousand three hundred three hundred thousand three hundred three hundred thousand three hundred thousand three hundred dollars thousand three hundred dollars thousand three hundred dollars it was like a million like it was close it was like a million like it was close it was like a million like it was close to a million dollars like you're so to a million dollars like you're so to a million dollars like you're so wanted well well used to be wanted well well used to be wanted well well used to be um can you like looking back at your um can you like looking back at your um can you like looking back at your childhood obviously growing up in this childhood obviously growing up in this childhood obviously growing up in this famous family what is something that famous family what is something that famous family what is something that was definitely not normal that like was definitely not normal that like was definitely not normal that like you got pretty used to because you were you got pretty used to because you were you got pretty used to because you were just like oh i just like oh i just like oh i i thought this was our reality like all i thought this was our reality like all i thought this was our reality like all of it of it of it you know like if i if i like shared the you know like if i if i like shared the you know like if i if i like shared the day-to-day growing up it would probably day-to-day growing up it would probably day-to-day growing up it would probably be like you know be like you know be like you know crazy to give us a little come on well it crazy to give us a little come on well it crazy to give us a little come on well it was just a lot of like was just a lot of like was just a lot of like thing like it was very like high security thing like it was very like high security thing like it was very like high security and like and like and like for going somewhere it was like lots of for going somewhere it was like lots of for going somewhere it was like lots of people following us and very like people following us and very like people following us and very like intense and chaotic and like intense and chaotic and like intense and chaotic and like going through you know i don't know like going through you know i don't know like going through you know i don't know like how are you so calm how are you so calm how are you so calm uh i don't know i i'm not uh i don't know i i'm not uh i don't know i i'm not at all internally internally at all internally internally at all internally internally i'm burning down all day it's the i'm burning down all day it's the i'm burning down all day it's the external you're keeping it all together external you're keeping it all together external you're keeping it all together but internally yes okay good to know but internally yes okay good to know but internally yes okay good to know uh i i got called shy a lot but i uh i i got called shy a lot but i uh i i got called shy a lot but i actually wasn't shy i just was very actually wasn't shy i just was very actually wasn't shy i just was very internal like i just didn't have a lot internal like i just didn't have a lot internal like i just didn't have a lot to say and and to say and and to say and and just was yeah i was very quiet i was just was yeah i was very quiet i was just was yeah i was very quiet i was like that actually like that actually like that actually most of my life until i started to most of my life until i started to most of my life until i started to realize that realize that realize that people would perceive that as rude so i people would perceive that as rude so i people would perceive that as rude so i really pushed myself to really pushed myself to really pushed myself to to you know come out of my shell to you know come out of my shell to you know come out of my shell like right now i don't want to be like right now i don't want to be like right now i don't want to be talking yeah but i have a camera in talking yeah but i have a camera in talking yeah but i have a camera in front gotta be here hi everyone front gotta be here hi everyone front gotta be here hi everyone oh that's so interesting so if like oh that's so interesting so if like oh that's so interesting so if like you're in if you're going through you're in if you're going through you're in if you're going through something in your life whether it's like something in your life whether it's like something in your life whether it's like a fight with your partner or a friend a fight with your partner or a friend a fight with your partner or a friend like like like do you just go silent no no no no no do you just go silent no no no no no do you just go silent no no no no no i'm very i'm very emotional i'm very i'm very emotional i'm very i'm very emotional i'm just not somebody like at a dinner i'm just not somebody like at a dinner i'm just not somebody like at a dinner party party party got it if a lot of people are talking i got it if a lot of people are talking i got it if a lot of people are talking i prefer to listen prefer to listen prefer to listen it's just that it's not like i'm like it's just that it's not like i'm like it's just that it's not like i'm like internalized i'm very i'm very uh open internalized i'm very i'm very uh open internalized i'm very i'm very uh open with my emotions got it got it i'm just with my emotions got it got it i'm just with my emotions got it got it i'm just not like a big chatter love yeah love not like a big chatter love yeah love not like a big chatter love yeah love welcome to an hour sitting down with me welcome to an hour sitting down with me welcome to an hour sitting down with me let's go girl i am now i wasn't i've let's go girl i am now i wasn't i've let's go girl i am now i wasn't i've grown i've changed you're doing great i grown i've changed you're doing great i grown i've changed you're doing great i don't know don't know don't know where am i um the book obviously where am i um the book obviously where am i um the book obviously switches between like your mom and her switches between like your mom and her switches between like your mom and her perspective and then yours yeah how do perspective and then yours yeah how do perspective and then yours yeah how do you think you think you think you guys were similar as teenagers wow you guys were similar as teenagers wow you guys were similar as teenagers wow um i think i also had a moment of like um i think i also had a moment of like um i think i also had a moment of like rebe she had like her rebellious moment rebe she had like her rebellious moment rebe she had like her rebellious moment i also had that i also had that i also had that like where i would sneak out and like where i would sneak out and like where i would sneak out and you know hang out with people i you know hang out with people i you know hang out with people i shouldn't wasn't allowed to shouldn't wasn't allowed to shouldn't wasn't allowed to and getting arrested and you know you got and getting arrested and you know you got and getting arrested and you know you got arrested arrested arrested i did i've never said that no you're i did i've never said that no you're i did i've never said that no you're like wait this is why a publicist is like wait this is why a publicist is like wait this is why a publicist is supposed to come in supposed to come in supposed to come in no one's here to save you wait that's no one's here to save you wait that's no one's here to save you wait that's kind of like kind of like kind of like i i was arrested once yeah it's a good i i was arrested once yeah it's a good i i was arrested once yeah it's a good mug shot mug shot mug shot i never saw it what i know you need to i never saw it what i know you need to i never saw it what i know you need to make t-shirts make t-shirts make t-shirts i know i was a minor so luckily i think i know i was a minor so luckily i think i know i was a minor so luckily i think it was like so it's like an underage it was like so it's like an underage it was like so it's like an underage yeah yeah yeah a lot of people that i know got those a lot of people that i know got those a lot of people that i know got those those were like i was like so terrified to get one because i like needed to go play like soccer and if you had one you couldn't play it was a whole thing right but like i was there you got you got a mug shot you didn't get i didn't get a mug shot but now in hindsight i'm like oh would have been like a little edgy so i had an edgy moment no um we're just drinking it was for oh god i can't say this my father it was for breaking and entering oh wait what where um so it was actually so i went to a party at my friend's house okay but i didn't know that it wasn't my friend's house it was a house for sale um and so most people like the police came and most people like got away and then about 10 of us got arrested my mom was pissed did she try to like get it not in the papers no she was like this is on you girl yeah oh my god luckily it didn't get it wasn't in the papers was your mom someone that would punish you like are you getting grounded i was grounded oh yeah i was grounded for like three months and i was grounded on my like 16th or 15th birthday or something yeah that's tough i was grounded on my 16th birthday or something yeah that's tough i was grounded on my 16th birthday or something tell her to come back from vegas and pick me up in prison i've never told anyone this like mom i'm in jail she's like i'm on the strip bitch what no so she she's like i can't get there so she sent my aunt to come get me and uh so you know i had a moment i had a moment like a moment as a teenager and she also did love yeah okay um you write a lot about like the different relationships that your mom had with you and your mom and your mom and your mom and your mom and romantically throughout your childhood when you were five your parents got divorced because your mom wanted to marry michael jackson how was this explained to you as a kid like that they were getting divorced so my mom I was like, we were in Florida and I was sitting on her lap and she said, I'm, me and your dad are getting a divorce. And I took, like, the way I received it was that he wasn't my dad anymore. And it was, like, it's so memorable to me because I just was destroyed. I didn't understand what a divorce was. So I just thought, like, he's not my dad now. But the great thing was shortly after, like, they were so close and they really cared about keeping them, you know, our family dynamic the same. So he was at our house and staying over. And so he was there a lot. So I think I kind of forgot about it, which was amazing. So you got to see, like, a very loving relationship between the two of them, even though they got divorced. Yeah, like a really unique, like, it was a very unique experience, especially in the 90s, you know, to have both of your parents. Like, sort of like brother and sister, really close, living together. He lived with us for a lot of my life when my mom had other partners and other husbands. He would live in the guest house. And so my, what was modeled to me was when you break up with someone, you stay friends with them. And I really, like, apply that to most of my relationships because that was kind of all that I, that was what I saw with my parents. And it was really. It was really beautiful. I mean, they were, they were, like, best friends. And I don't know if they should have been married. We, when you break up with someone or they break up with you and you're staying friends with them, have any of your past relationships been like, Riley, like, we broke up. Why are, like, are you still trying to stay so amicable? And are people ever confused by, like, how amicable you are? No, because I think that, like, it was never a forced thing. I think I just, I don't know how I did it. There were. There was, like, one relationship that there was, you know, no friendship there. But for the most part, all the other ones, I don't even know. It wasn't, I wasn't, like, consciously thinking about it. We just ended up friends. And it's just kind of, like, how you were raised to think that that's how you go about it, which is probably in hindsight, like, a, I don't know. Do we think it's a better way to go about it? Well, my feeling was always, like, this is a person that I love, that I spent a lot of time with. Why wouldn't I have them in my life? Yeah. If. You know, unless it was, like, some, like, crazy, unhealthy situation. Yes. Of course, it's uncomfortable for a minute. But I think ultimately, if it's someone that I really cared that much about, then I'd want them in my life somehow. We just skirted past the big name, Michael Jackson. Okay. Let's go back for a second. So on top of, like, your family already being obviously so famous, how did your life get even crazier when Michael entered the picture? Because he had his own slew of, like. Like, paparazzi and people following him and a media empire, essentially. Mm-hmm. Our life wasn't crazier because that was already there. That already existed. Like, the press and the crazy, the paparazzi and the, you know, all that. But her life, I think when she saw Michael's life, there were things that he had that she didn't have. Like, she didn't have a plane at the time or, you know, things like that. And so she then was like, oh, I should have a plane. And I should have a, you know, this and that. And so our life in that way kind of. Got bigger. Got bigger. Because she, before that, she was with my dad. And my dad, their life was very simple. Not with the press and the craziness. But in terms of, like, at home, like, she didn't have 10 million assistants and, you know. She didn't need all of that. And I think that changed. How did your mom try to protect you and your brother from the paparazzi during all this? It's so funny because I get tagged in these photos all the time where we're wearing, like, a hat and glasses. And I'm like, what does that do? It's so weird. Stunning. Like, a hiding, I don't know. I guess they attempted to hide our faces, but it was, like, impossible. What is the most, like, extravagant thing Michael did for you and your brother? There was a lot of, like, closing down things for us. Well, it was kind of, like, the only way that our family could do things. Like, if we wanted to go to a toy store or, like. Like, something like that, like, or ride rides or, you know. So, it wasn't that, I don't know if it was necessarily done for us or just for, like, our family situation where we had to shut the, you know, the toy stores and stuff. But there was one memorable time in London where we were in the toy store. So, it was just my brother and I in the whole toy store. And we were just, like, going floor to floor to floor and, like, filling up our thing. And, yeah, that was the first thing. But I don't know if it was for us or just, like, the way that our life was, you know. It's so interesting, like, hearing that. Because now I know, obviously, you have a daughter. Growing up with such lavish things around you, have you thought to yourself, like, that was so normal to you? And, like, how are you going to parent differently than how your mom parented you? I think she was such a. She was an amazing parent. And she wanted us to have, I think, like her father did, these amazing experiences all the time. For me, personally, I want. I think that the problem there could be for some that when you're used to so much, it's hard to find joy in simple things. And so, I really want my children to be able to. Find joy in just, you know, playing in the backyard and doing normal kid stuff and not need, like, elephants and circus and, you know, like, all these things all the time. So, that's probably what I would do differently. But I think her intention was really, you know, wanting to give everything she could to her kids. Have you had a hard time, like, finding happiness in the simple things since you were around such wealth and big moments? I think that there was a time in my life. Where I was like, oh, we're not gonna, you know, let me think of a good example of this. Like, even going to dinner growing up was, like, 50 people. It was, like, a big deal. Everything was a big deal all the time. So, there was more of, like, a loneliness that I experienced in my 20s when our life was a bit different. I was just used to having so many people around and everything being so intense. That I felt a little bit lonely when it was, when my life was smaller, I think. I think that's, like, a relatable concept. I think, like, I always talk to my friends who, when you get older and you're, like, life is changing and families and Thanksgivings. Like, even if you look at what we see in, like, Hallmark movies and everything, like, the bigger seems happier, right? Like, a big family at a table and everyone is there. And when you have a smaller unit. It feels like this isn't as fun. This isn't as, when really, like, it could be more intimate and you could have stronger connections. And it's not, it doesn't mean it's not fun. Yeah. But there's this feeling. It's that. It's that exact phenomenon. But, like, probably just a little different. But, yes, it's, like, probably the same feeling you'd get if you, you know, came from a huge family and had big family gatherings all the time. And then it was just, you know, you or you moved somewhere and you're just like, what? This feels lonely. Absolutely. So, obviously, finishing, because I have to acknowledge it with the Michael stuff. Like, obviously, before your mom's relationship with him, there were allegations of abuse and that he assaulted children. Then your mom went on to marry him and you spent a good amount of time with him. Like, were there any adults in your life that were like, wait, I don't know if you should be spending time at Neverland. I don't know if we want you to be there. Like, was your dad nervous? I was never told anything. So, even as, and it's actually not something I ever asked as an adult. Why do you think? I don't know. I think it just, like, was what it was. Like, I didn't, I don't know. It just never came to mind, I guess. I would imagine that my dad was really heartbroken and reading the news. And I'm sure that, I'm just imagining. Of course. I would imagine he said all kinds of things to my mom, you know, that we didn't know about. But nothing, like, the way my parents parented was very much like, we don't fight around the kids. We don't ever say anything around them. There was no, like, we didn't know anything. We didn't know about any allegations. We didn't know. We had no awareness of that. As an adult, when you look back on that time of your life, like, how do you feel about it now? I mean, the one thing I know is that they were in love. And that their love for one another was genuine, you know? Because I was there and I remember everything else, like, I don't know because I wasn't there for, you know? When your mom would break up with these people and she would, like, find a different partner at some point in your life, like, how do you think that affected your own attachment style? That's really interesting. I definitely would be really upset. Like, when she would break up with people, Michael, her other partners, I would cry. I'd get mad. I'd get mad at her. I really was upset. Like, I'd get mad at her. I'd be pissed, you know, not knowing what happened, but I was always just mad at my mom for the breakups. So it really affected me. My attachment style. The one thing I know is that throughout, through all of her relationships, everyone would always go, she should have stayed with Danny, who's my dad. And so I always have this voice in the back of my head that's like, she should have stayed with Danny. And I, I know that she was, you know, someone who, when things got boring or mundane or difficult, she was like, see ya, you know? And I think that there's this part of me that feels like, I don't know, staying with, if you find, if you're, so lucky to find somebody who is like your kind of best friend in the way that, that they were to, to try and like, you know, make it work, make it work. Yeah. That was what I thought was interesting. The book was like basically saying like when your mom was, um, when she was passing, like, wasn't he like the last person there basically for her. Yeah. And through all of these different relationships, didn't she date like Nicholas Cage at one point? These big moments that were press moments, but really the through line was like, it seemed like your mom and dad, like always kind of stayed by each other's side, which I can imagine for your own like romantic situation. I know you're married now, but like prior to your husband, were, were you ever feeling that through line of like, Ooh, this is getting boring. I'm going to run or have, you know what I mean? I definitely had that when I was younger. Okay. When I was younger, I was very hard to pin down. I was not interested in, you know, sticking around and I definitely like didn't have the best track record there. So that I think would tie to sort of my mom's way of like, you know, moving on once the, the, the thrill is, you know, whatever that when I was a teenager, I was like, uh, that makes sense. Yeah. I'm curious. Like, was there any part of you that was ever nervous to get married? No, which is so stupid. I was, I mean, I was young. I was 24. When I got married, I was a little girl and you weren't nervous. I wasn't nervous. I was so excited. I didn't, I, I didn't know what marriage was. I hadn't been in a relationship longer than three years, you know? Like I, I didn't think about it. Yeah. I love that for you. I mean, that's like really interesting to hear. Cause like, I know why I love these types of conversations. It's like, you never know what you're going to get. Cause some people could be in your situation, I was so petrified because I didn't want to, do what my mom had done or, you know, you're going to like play out what she was doing, but you're like, no, I like went right into it. Yeah. I didn't really think I was. Yeah. It wasn't impulsive or anything. I just like knew that he was the person. I knew he was the person that I was meant to have kids with. I just knew it. So I don't know. And neither of us were like, neither of us ever put any pressure on it either. It wasn't like, we still don't, we're not like our marriage will never fail. And we're going to be together until we're 80. You know, like we're both kind of like, if we ever were unhappy, we would say, divorce. Right. You know, you're realist. We're realist. We're like, whatever. You talk about how your mom was very open with you and that sometimes could feel like a curse. What do you mean by that? There were just not a lot of boundaries. It was very like, everyone knew everything about everybody. Um, and everyone was involved in everybody's, if I was breaking up with a boyfriend, like she was involved, you know, like it was like that kind of a thing. Um, she, everyone, you know, my brother, my dad, like we were very enmeshed, I think. Um, wow. Yeah. So would you ever find yourself though, like roles reversed? I feel like sometimes people get to the point where they almost become the mother to their mother. Did you ever play therapist with your mom? Yes. I think that there was a certain point probably in my mid twenties when I sort of became more of the caretaker in the relationship. And I think it was around when she became addicted to opiates. Um, cause she was always sort of the, like, leader in our family. And then she had, you know, fell into her addiction. And at that point I sort of, yeah, our, our dynamic changed a lot. Can we talk about that? Because so many friends and I have these conversations now I have people that write in and it's like such a mind fuck when you become the adult in the dynamic with your parent, because you're like, wait, no, it's inevitable. It's so weird and hard. And it's like, you have to have so you either have to have so many conversations or you don't. And it just is what it is. And you're left feeling a little bit like an identity crisis because your parent who you could always go to and be like the child to your kind of now, like, wait, why are you relying on me so heavily for things that I think the weirdest part about it in my experience is they don't notice they're doing it. Yes. You know? And you're like, wait, no, how, who's seeing this? Like, it's such an unsaid thing. Yeah. No, you're so right. Like, they're not aware, but you're aware. Yeah. And I'm like, and then it's like awkward because you can't say like, I don't want to be your parent. Like, grow up. What is going on? And that's why I think it's such a mind fuck because then the people or the person that you're most likely going to in your past go to to complain about something like that is your mom. So you go to the other one. Right. So you go to your dad. And then he's losing it, too. And you're like, oh, shit, girl going insane. It's really interesting watching my parents get older now. I'm like, do you feel like you have that dynamic with your parents? I started to in a moment and I have been doing a lot of therapy. Yeah. And they have like my mom and I have talked about like our therapy journeys because I'm like, we got to try to not make this happen. Like we even if we're equals as adults. But I think and it's what are the ways if you're comfortable and sharing that you find yourself in that situation, like how I think like as basic as like calling me for help on everything where you're like, how did we get here? How did we get here? Yeah. How did we get through life where I have to say like that is something that I really am going to try my best. I don't know if it's just inevitable, but like as a parent, like I don't ever want my kids to feel like they have to take care of me. Yeah. Or unless they literally do. Yeah. But I mean, like emotionally, you know, I don't want I don't want my children to feel like my happiness is their responsibility. I feel the same way. But I also feel like so many people have that point of like, I'm going to do it so differently than my parents. And it feels like every generation says that. And then we keep fucking up. I think there's another, you know, I think you just have to accept that you're going to do stuff wrong. Yeah. And you're going to end up like your child is going to end up talking to the therapist about you. It's just part of being a parent. So I for me, I just I try and not, you know, read into it, read or read anything at all. I don't read. I sit and read. But I think there's so much pressure, you know, to improve on the future generations as you know, whatever. And so I think I don't know. I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. No, it's such a no, you're like and pivot. No, I know exactly what you're talking about. Also, I love that you having a daughter like, did your mom ever talk to you about the trauma and the grieving process of like losing her father and like how she dealt with that? Because I feel like you write a lot in the book of like, seeing her in a moment like crying and drinking and crying over Elvis's death. But then it's like, how she never talked about her grief. She only would talk about him. So she never would. I don't think she would. I don't think she processed her grief. Like, I think that because her grief was so public. She would hide a lot of her feelings because she they felt personal, like something she could keep to herself. So I think because of that, she didn't really talk about the grief so much. And I think as in her late 40s. And like when she was 50, she started realizing that she hadn't really ever talked about it to anybody. Yeah. Which I think is also common with older generations. You know, nobody was talking about at all, all their things. You obviously have experienced grief. I mean, you lost your brother and your mom in the span of a couple of years, two years. How have you thought about like how to process grief in terms of, one, for yourself, but also for your daughter? Because, right, like you watched your mom not be able to handle it till she was about 40, 50 and start to feel it. Like, have you taken different steps? The only like step that I've actively taken is to like feel my feelings. It's a good step. It was a good step. Which is a lot harder than it sounds. Yes. You know, and some of them are have been extremely unbearable. And whether that's grief or anxiety, sadness, like I think that feeling my feelings has been the only conscious thing that I've done. And present in my feelings. Could you give just because I know there's so many people that do deal with family members that have addiction like how did your relationship with your mom change when she became addicted to painkillers? Well I've had a lot of family members who have had addiction issues that I will and won't say on air because it's their personal you know story but more than just my mother and it's been a really interesting life because I've been surrounded in a way with people suffering from addiction but there's never anything I can really do about it and it's I have I found myself kind of going like what is the lesson here like to be around people harming themselves and and nothing I do will change it. And so the only thing that I could do was surrender to what is you know yeah and of course I mean with my mom it was a you know years of me trying to drag her into you know rehab or get her help or like so much effort you know and thinking like this is going to be effective every time and and not really being present in the fact that the person is going to be affected. And so the only thing that I could do was surrender to what is you know and of course sitting across from me is not participating in my plan you know so I just was I mean that was I tried really hard to you know keep all of these plates spinning and then ultimately it resulted in like you know addiction sort of resulted in the loss of two of my family members. Yeah. I was kind of forced to surrender and I think that it's a really hard. It's a really hard line because you can't do nothing because you feel like you know you have to you someone you love is suffering you have to do everything you can to help alleviate the suffering so I wouldn't necessarily like take back all of the effort that I put in but it's just just a weird lesson in like I don't know I don't know what I actually don't know. I think that's a good answer though because I feel like I feel like there's so many people that go through it and you feel like you're kind of like going in circles at some point. It's like the same thing with it's a way more extreme version of when someone doesn't want to go to therapy and you're trying to get them to go therapy it's like you can't make the person go to therapy they don't with addiction it's like this person you can try to help but at some point you also in a weird way have to like give yourself some grace that like. Yeah. One thing my mom always would say is she'd say tough love doesn't work and that was I didn't give tough love that was that's not part of who I am but to other people around her who would try and like force enforce things. Yeah. And I really agree with that like I don't think that personally like unless the unless the person is really causing harm or is a threat to you and your safety or you know yeah then that then it's very. It's very different in addiction but I never withdrew love in in moments of you know difficulty and through addiction and I I really believe that you know I think there's a lot of like when you watch those TV shows that are like about you know whatever addicts and stuff and they're dragging them out of you know these are human beings that are in pain. Yeah. And so I think that always operating from a place of empathy to me was always for me felt right. I one of the things that you wrote in your book that I felt like was so sad for you because it goes back to that like isolating feeling was when you kind of talked about being seen as a narc by your family. You're like I was my brother is telling me to leave the club and I didn't know why and I was like oh he's sending me home so he can start doing drugs in the club and he didn't want you around like how do you think that affected the way you acted around your family because I think. The people that aren't doing the drugs like I've had a situation like this where like someone trying to hide it from you and then you also just kind of feeling like not wanted and as much as you don't want to be a part of the drugs you also feel like you're being alienated because you're the only quote unquote sober one. Yeah it was a really strange experience because I never was we were never having the same experience like in my experience I was always being very I was being firm but I was always very gentle. And to them it was like you're making me feel so bad like they took it everything was really was received really intensely and it wasn't my experience so I think there's so much like shame around addiction that it's really hard to like have you know honest conversations. Yeah but I you know. Like I don't know it wasn't like I'm in the room everybody's like leaving me out or something you know it was a it was a slow burn. Yeah when you went through this like two year span of grief essentially or like the beginning of who did you lean on like who do you go to when you're you need someone to support you. I really leaned on people who had had similar experiences because it felt so isolating. I had friends who had lost loved ones. In various ways and I found that to be the most comforting because I just wanted them to tell me that I was going to be okay you know from someone who'd experienced it and say like you're going to survive this and because in the in the moments in the moment itself particularly losing my brother I I didn't see a way that I could so I I wanted to just talk to people who had lost a sibling had lost someone in a sort of more shocking sort of. Way like the way I lost my brother people who had experienced suicide I I just wanted to hear just from them but then I had amazing an amazing group of friends around me and husband but it's it's a really isolating experience. It is I appreciate you talking about it and I think that's what was wonderful about you writing about your experience in the book is like like you saying you wanted to go to certain people that had experienced it because you as much as you love certain friends it's like you've never gone through it you're kind of like okay I don't need you to like hold my hand right now I literally need like answers yeah I would go on I would go on like read it I would literally go on forums and go like and just because it was I was such an isolating experience right and and like read people's experiences and like blogs and like I talked dm'd with people on Instagram who dm'd me who had also lost their siblings like I would just and talk to them and be like did you feel this way did you feel this way because it was so lonely right so I'd anyone who would experience it would feel this way because it was so lonely right so I'd anyone who would experience it I would literally talk to talk to oh my god you on reddit I know that I love that for you are you also a reddit sleuth though or no no no I'm not like dragging I'm not I don't I just do a google I'm not like deep I don't have an account like you're like xxxr fmn and qq nark 25 imagine you're like the biggest reddit sleuth and this all comes out one day we find your account no um okay I read that you're a certified death doula yeah can you talk to me about what that entails and how you got into that uh yeah I got into it because a friend of mine was a death doula and um because of what I was just saying how I felt like when my brother died there were no resources and I was literally going on reddit yeah I found a community of people who worked in like the death world oh and I didn't know that that existed and um she was a death doula and I just thought if I could make myself of use at all to people who were experiencing anything like this I I would so I yeah I did my death doula training and got certified it's based it's essentially like what a birth doula is okay for dying and you're um taught how to be with the dying wow person do you find like that kind of also continues to heal you while you work with other people or is it at all triggering if something is similar that they're going through that you've been through um it's I wouldn't say triggering I would say you're very empathetic you know um it's hard to you're because you've experienced something you you're very much with them emotionally because it's it's a shared lot like a experience of grief yeah so um yeah I think it's just it's not that I'm triggered and thinking of my own situation but I'm very much emotionally with the person yeah when you were in the press with like all of that shit about the estate and everything and legal and all of this like how does it feel when your family is so publicly like in the news like that and that I feel like was the first time you were at the forefront so that's that's actually true like my family's been uh since I my first memories is my family's in the news 24 7 right like growing up every where I would go and I would go to the my family are on the front of every magazine like as a child like that was very normal but my mom received all of it you know um when my mom died that was the first time I received all that right energy which was very intense and I it made me really empathize with her you know it's funny when I I've been doing press for years like I've been acting for a long time and typically it's a pretty good experience when I went out to do press for this book um I really like like the the vibe I got from certain interviewers was aggressive like tell me this thing tell me the answer to this why did this happen like a more like like putting me on like in the hot seat kind of experience which I've never like as an actor I'm just having a nice time doing press you know and I was like wow because it's like related to my mom I'm getting the energy my mom would get you know um and it's so interesting and maybe it's because of the name and how media was different back in the day and there were just like the core tenants of who was famous and there weren't that many famous people it almost is like they're carrying on that sense of entitlement in media of like we deserve to know this and we will go to the end of the earth to get the picture and the shot and the information and you're literally like wait I'm like wait this does not happen anymore I'm like no no nope you're like next question you're like wait you can't say that yeah I can't do you want to fight that's crazy um yeah but then I realized like what she would have been dealing with yeah it's so interesting like you're every generation it changes and it gets different like and the way that you probably feel about your grandfather so different than the way that your mother felt about her father and how your daughter will feel about her grandfather like this empire that he was yeah that's what's so interesting is reading this book and hearing you talk about it for most of us like this has been a very long time since Elvis was at the center of the conversation it's really wild like I don't quite understand either it's like there's still movies all the time like and I'm like this is you know it's it's it's amazing that somebody could you know impact people so much like it's it's really unique you know and I you know I really appreciate it because of course we love our family and you know want other people to as well but I do I do often go like what there's always like in my inbox like this movie and that movie and Elvis is and I'm like wow it's really still popping still popping you're like no okay in a way with this book now finally being out do you feel a sense of relief like not that it's being put to bed but you got to tell this story and now it's like the next chapter of your life is beginning I I do feel relief because it felt like this thing that I knew was coming that was going to be this big thing and I did sort of want it to be over yeah you know um I think this is like my last podcast by the way you're like I'm going out with a bang I love it I love it um and I yeah I don't want to think about my trauma all day every day you know I feel like I didn't we didn't get too crazy right no you wanted to laugh more no I didn't want to I don't know to be honest I had no expectations did your friends think you were coming in to talk about sex I literally we can I mean I'm I'm an open book maybe you're gonna have to come back on and we're gonna do like a different call her daddy episode great where we get into the tea we'll do a tea we'll do a tea episode coming I'm very very appreciative thank you so much for taking the time I know this is like a lot so thank you no I appreciate it