Rikers Island Gang Member Reveals Most DISGUSTING Prison Weapon

Did you ever have to shoot someone? I shot and killed somebody when I was 16. And that's when I first entered the justice system. At that time, I was on the streets. Kill or be killed, survive with a fist. Everybody's killed people back in the 90s. Everybody. We didn't know the value of life, didn't care. They gave me a beat down automatically in the staff. Your reputation really preceded you. They wanted me to know that this is not syncing. We don't tolerate people putting hands on officers. We will kill you. And there was at least two slashings a day, just in the adolescent wing. They came up. [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] Today's guest is Richie Ng. A former Chinese gang member who's got one of the craziest prison stories I've ever heard. Richie grew up in Brooklyn, New York, the son of Chinese immigrant parents and ran away from home at a young age to join the Go Shadows street gang in Manhattan's infamous Chinatown district. Then when he was only 16, Richie got locked up for murder and spent the next 23 years doing the hardest time imaginable, first on Rikers Island, and then throughout the rest of the New York state prison system, including seven straight years in solitary confinement. Slashing stabbings, heroin smuggling, assaults on guards, even throwing cups. Richie was not trying to hear it. But when he did finally make parole, he got out and became of all things a successful actor. To this day, Richie's been a featured player in dozens of major Hollywood films and TV shows, with more releasing very soon. So go follow him on Instagram for updates. Ladies and gentlemen, what an incredible journey and transformation a New York gangster through and through. It's Richie Ng right here on the connect with Johnny Mitchell. What's up everyone? Thank you so much for watching. Please make sure you're subscribed to the channel and you have that alert bell turned on. And if you love this interview, feel free to hit that like button and drop a comment. It helps push the video out to so many more people. All right, let's do this, enjoy. - Later, I'm fucking sitting in the fucking cell and they're like, what the fuck? Like I remember when they were building this. - Yeah, I remember when there was building this. And now, you know, I went back in, I did a little stretch. When I came back out, they knocked it shit down again. And they're building a new one there now. When I walked by there now, not looking, not spinning, not even glancing in that direction. Don't want nothing to do with how this plate thing is built, but they're building a jail there again. - Did they knock the original jail? - They had the original jail. - That's the whole thing. - The whole rebuilding? - Yeah, I don't know how they did. I was locked up. - And they're rebuilding it? - Rebuilding another, they call it a super jail. Like the people in the Chinatown, they upset about it. You know what I'm saying? But you know, they're building another one there. - It's ironic because they're building a super jail, but for who? Like no New Yorkers are like super criminals anymore. Well, when they say super jail, because this is, they say they want to shut back his island down. Which they should, because that place is old as fuck. Like, like, I was in, when I was in back in 1992. Like, they had used to have to move dorms from dorms to cells because the blocks was falling apart. Like, one time we were sleeping there and they sent all of us to the gym. Like imagine a hundred dudes, they took out of the cells and sent them to a lower mod into a gym and put beds in a gym because the housing unit used in just collapsed. It's crazy, you know? But we were young. So, you know, we didn't know the law. And we were 16 years old, 17 years old. 'Cause once you turn 18, you gotta go to adult. 19, you're trying to adult. So, at that time, 16 to 19, you don't really, never really try to make waves. You don't know what's going on. - Yeah, you don't realize you have human rights. - You don't realize you have human rights. Like, shit, that we grown so accustomed to that thinking that it's normal. Like, now's the adult when I look back. I'm like, whoa. When they used to have run up in the dorms and have everybody strip butt ass naked and have us line up, nuts to balls, no. What they used to say, nuts to butt, nuts to butt. You know, that's a fucking. Like, that's what we're gonna do in Saudi Arabia, right? How you the great people, like we was 16, 17 years old. 17 years old, they had us all lined up in the neighborhood butt ass naked, lined up next to each other. Like, I know that the wave we think is different now, but for a heterosexual person, that's not cool, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not saying, called everybody. I'm called everybody, but as a heterosexual male to be forced to line up naked next to each other at that age, and have everybody watching you, have like 30 staff members staring at you and everything, that's kind of crazy, right? I don't even think homosexual people would like to be treated like that. - No, I don't think so either. I mean, it is a straight-up stripping of your human dignity. Look at my human rights. Your dignity as a human being, you know what I'm saying? I mean, yeah, we didn't go in there for being angels, but we have bellotation. Like, if this is the first thing we see when we go in, how we're viewing everything else that comes after that. We're not in a sentence yet. We're not even found guilty yet. We just don't have a bell or couldn't afford a bell. So we're stuck in Rikers Island and we're being treated like this before we even found guilty. Like, what does that do to a mindset of a child? Like, I've been in solitary confinement for like seven years, like, straight, but I was a child. I didn't know no better. So I was able to, I was resilient. I was able to bounce back. But what about for people that experienced life before? Like, they have a family out there. They have people that rely on them to isolate somebody like that. That's crazy. That's, to me, that's kind of crazy. It's crazy. It's very crazy. So the plan is to close Rikers and ship all the inmates to the new super tombs. Supposedly. That's what is up in the air, you know? Yeah. 'Cause Rikers Island is old, you know? And they're gonna be getting a lot of balloons in. 'Cause the tombs is right in the middle of everything. It's right in the middle of everything. They're selling hair on. Still, there's junkies nodding off. Like, on that block, I'd roll by it. Oh yeah. You have a method on clinic over there. You got the method on clinic over there. Just like, but, you know, so how did you grow up? You grew up in your parents immigrated from China? Yes. You were born here? No, I wasn't born here. Born in China. I was born Hong Kong. OK. I came in when I was three. If I remember correctly, we landed in Detroit first, then Chicago, then New York. OK. Or Chicago, then Detroit, then New York. But New York was the last time. We stopped in Detroit or Chicago, either one of those first. OK. Were raised in Chinatown, Manhattan Chinatown? I was raised in New York City, right? And Chinatown was kind of like forbidden for us growing up. Like, we lived there for a little bit, but my parents moved us out. Because at that time, the Chinese gangs was like crazy. It's not like it was now. Like, every day you see on the news, somebody dying and everything. Like, so my parents wanted to get us away from that. It was cheaper to live in Chinatown, but they made sacrifices, you know? So, OK, I didn't get no new sneakers for like three, four years in a row. But they saved that money to give us a better life. So, they moved out out of Chinatown. But I was young. I didn't know that all the sacrifices that they was making. Oh, yeah, I had bummy clothes. I didn't have new things. I was the worst dress kid in the class. I didn't know that they were saving for the future, you know? But at that age, you don't know. So, I said, you know what? I don't want to live like this. I want to live, bummy. You know, I don't want to share clothes with my little brother, you know? So, I left and I went to Chinatown and joined the game and stuff like that. How old were you when you did that? That whole area, that whole stage of my life was really foggy because we was all on drugs as a kid. That's how they control kids. Put them on drugs, you know? Put them on drugs, make them dependent on you. Put them, you're in a few state at all times. So, you don't really remember, you remember like the major stuff, but like the days just merged and melded into weeks and months. And the next thing you know, you've been in that apartment for like three months straight. And you've just been in there again, hiding and taking out, you know? But I want to say, between 10 and 11, between 10 and 11 you go. Just a boy. He's smoking weed or what? We're just doing everything. We're smoking weed. The intro just does the angel dust, you know? These mind-altering things, you know? Who's that? The powers that be the people that manipulate little young kids, you know? Like gang leaders and stuff like that. The Chinese gang leaders? Can you name which one? Because they're all gone now. They all gone. The names? I don't even know the English names because I was so young at the time, you know? But, uh, I don't know the gang. I was important to kill, but when I got locked up, I was with the ghost shadows. The ghost shadows. We talked to, we had Mike on the podcast, who makes part of the ghost shadows. Mike was a ex-game member that became a police officer. That's right. You probably talk about Peter. That's right. You know, Peter was the man in fact that he was the man. He was the generation before mine. And it was my generation that looked up to him and idolize him and wanted to emulate him and be like him because he was a local legend. He didn't know. And he was known for like importing heroin, right? No. China wife. He was just laying people out. He wasn't about drugs at that time. He was the one that made the name GoShadow feared. Like he, he was like the, uh, almost like an enforcer type, but not enforcer because he was ranked so high, but he, he was the one that built the name of GoShadow. He was, even though he was not first generation, he was the second generation, but you can read all about in his book, you know, like everything I'm telling you is in his book. I'm just reiterating stuff that's from his book. So what, what do they want to 10 or 11 year old, like what, what do you do and as part of the gang? We're the best, you know, hold this gun. You know, 11 years old, they're not gonna happen. You know, steal this car and nothing gonna happen. You're 11 years old, you're 12 years old. You know, stay outside while we go eat and hold these guns in here. If you see us arguing, grab the guns and run the hands off shooting. When you're not gonna get in trouble, you're 12 years old, you're 13 years old. I mean, and these are people that are older. So if you join a gang, you're seeking some type of camaraderie and you seek it with older people and older people that you can look up to. So when your role models have different tents than what you think, everything he says is gold. Everything he says is gold, it makes sense. But you know what, it's not. Like, now as an adult and I look back, I was like, damn, how dumb was I that? I was so easily manipulated and, but I'm responsible for my own action. I made the choice. I made the choice to do what I do, you know. That's crazy that you feel at 10 years old, you felt like you wanted to run away from home. Even when your parents were like doing their best. They was doing their best, but at that time, they immigrated to this country. They didn't speak English. So they had to work for Chinese businesses. So Chinese businesses, they don't work nine to five Monday to Friday. They work Sunday to Sunday, nine a.m. to 11 p.m. You know, I barely seen my dad growing up. Like, but his presence has felt because we had a roof over our head. We always had food on the table, you know. We wasn't like, I'm not gonna say we was living in poverty. We was living, we was getting by. But the presence wasn't there because he was working so hard, he was trying so hard to make a better future for me and my brother. Because their story, they went through marriage, trials and tribulations just to get here. So they may sacrifice it. It's just, when you're that young, you don't look at it. And then you look at all your friends and everybody did, you know what I'm saying. You know, easily, easily, yo, come here. I'll get you there. I'll put some money on you. Put some clothes on you. You can get fly too. Just come with me, hold this gun, though. All right. So that's that, that was the mentality. So were they paying you when you first could join the gang? Yeah, you can, you can, you can, you get us, you get money. You get like a podium, you get to eat for free on the blog, you know, clothes, you get, you don't have the, you don't pay for anything. You have no expenses, basically. And thank you, Park, Trump change, I call it now. But they used to give us pocket money, so you could have some money to go out, sign up Chinatown to floss, but again, Trump change. Did you ever have to bust your gun for the gang as a youth? I did. That's why I went to prison for. In the pool, it was a, it was a gang shooting and that's when I first entered the justice system. Wow. 16. Can you tell us that day? What happened? Where it went down? It was in the pool. You know, it met, it met, and it was a rival gang member. Words was exchanged and at that time I had been shot twice already. So I said, you know what? I'm not going to let nobody, I'm not going to let somebody pull out and be twice again, you know? So I fired, I fired and unfortunately, you know, the worst of the worst happened, he died. He was a rival Chinese gang member? Yeah, like, I don't want to villainize the victim, you know, he's a victim, he's dead. You know, I don't want to, I don't want to paint him as a bad picture. But at that time, it was all in the streets. It was all in the streets. It was all about the streets. Yeah. It was street life. It was, it was a killer be killed, you know, survival of the fittest. What year was that? 1992. Wow. You'd already been shot at that one. Yeah, I was 13, I was 14, so I already know what it feels like to get lead put in you. So I'm like, you know what? I didn't, I probably thought, even if I shot him, he might not die, I've been shot twice away. There's no guarantee you're going to die. Right. So I really had no intent to kill him. Yeah. But what kind of gun do you have? I had a 380. Fuck, yeah, I had a 380, and, you know, plus I was high. I was in a right state of mind, you know, when the gun jammed the first time I should just walk the way, but I jammed it, so that's why I got so much time, I jammed it and emptied it. Right. That's what happened. You emptied the clip in them? Yeah. Damn. That's wild. So you're 16. You're on Rikers. Yeah. How long did you stand Rikers for? Oh, I stand on Rikers in some 1994, almost two years fighting my case. They didn't give me a bail because they didn't give bail for homicide back then. Right. So I had no bail. So I was going back and forth and caught, and you know what? For me, jail wasn't scary because I had everything that came my life to gang life. For me, jail in prison, my mentality at that time, jail in prison is just a measurement stick of how gangster you really are, you know, for me, it's just a promotion. This is where I went from junior high school to high school, you know, and once I go up north, I'll be in college, and when I graduate, I back out on the street running shit. That was the mentality of a gang member back then. So when I went in there, I never voted before, you know what I'm saying? I never done any, I never had no bills, nothing. I didn't know what I was missing in life, never been to a prom high school, none of that shit. So I'm in there like, all right, this is, this is just me, you know what I'm saying? How can I, I got to find the biggest dude, whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all that, you know, try to make a name for yourself. And being Asian in prison, you, you know, look that as a threat, unless you bang twice as hard, you know, I mean, you've been in prison, yeah, you're white, you know how it is. White guys and Asian guys, you know, predominantly environment where, where the super, super minority, we got bang twice as hard to get half the recognition as everybody else. Right. So you can imagine for me to develop like, I wasn't, when I was in the streets, I was young. So every stories that they ever wrote about me and all the, all the love I get from streets, is from people that went to prison and came back out and told them about this, how this Chinese guy was repiting prison. So like, yeah, I was a, I was gangbagging when I was a kid, but I was a small soldier. I was one that made these big bosses look good. So nobody knew me, there was nobody, but it wasn't until I went to prison and, and then what I did and extended my bed, I could have been home way earlier. I could have been home like, at the earliest five years instead of doing 18 years. But I just went in there with the mentality like, you know, this is just the next step. The only thing I'm doing, everything I'm doing in prison that I was doing in the street, I'm getting high, I'm robbing people, I'm extorting people, I'm pressing people. The only thing I didn't have was sex. And you know what, I was 16 years old, I was, I, that was not my main priority. I really don't know that, you know. So for me, it was just another, not something in my mind. It was a stepping stone. And that's why I kept getting kicked out and the reason so many people that went to prison when they come home, they knew about me is I never stayed in one prison long. I'm always getting kicked out of one prison to another to another threat to the security prison transfer, threat to the security assault of staff transfer to another prison. So by me bouncing everywhere, I meet a lot of people and I'm a friendly guy. So people be friendly and you know, I had a reputation so, you know, it was a smooth bit. So tell us about Rikers, what was Rikers like in the juvenile wing in 1992? Oh man, that was, that was really well. Back then, they used to call that C-74 adolescents at war, they used to have the article because every day there was at least two slashings a day, just in the adolescent wing, not the whole Rikers Island. And when I say slashing, I'm talking about getting cut with a razor in your face. That's a slashing. And those are ones that gets reported. You know, there's sometimes that you fight in the bathroom, you guys both have razors. And I've been going to go with the dude where I got cut, but it's so my note that it's so superficial that it don't get reported. So the ones that get reported are the ones that are serious, serious, you're going to go to outside hospital, got stitches and stuff like that. But it was pretty well, the summer of 1992 was really well in Rikers Island. What did you do to first earn your stripes when you got in there? Like you said, you got a bang twice as hard. Yeah. It's very unfortunate. I mean, the guy didn't do nothing to me, but it was, it was, it was, it was a stepping stone for me. I found the biggest dude in the unit, big guy, tiny, like big dumb dude, like, you know, tiny. Yeah. I didn't even know. I mean, it sounds funny, but I initially as a young kid, I'm like, oh, this guy is a big dude. So, and he looks kind of tough. So I went behind him, and I caught him from behind him, whatever. But it was so much bigger than me that I couldn't really get him in his face. So I was like, kind of skipped, I kind of hit his head and skipped a few times. So it wasn't, it wasn't bad. It didn't even get to get reported and they, they separated us and then we had my friends and his friends was kind of cool, so they made it fight in the bathroom and stuff like that. Wow. I mean, I'm still friends, so I'm not going to say who won in the bathroom. You're still in touch to this day. Like, so they, the guards sent you to the bathroom, or the key holders, yeah. Not the key holders. Oh, that makes. Okay. We run them. The police back then, it's a dorm of 50 dudes and we was in murder model 9, and that's where they put all the people that's in died for murder. So everybody in there was in died for murder, so the guards didn't really like to go in it. That's why they called it murder model 9. Like, if you fuck up in the other houses and population, the officers used to threaten them with, oh, oh, you don't want to do this, you want to, what's in and murder them all night. 'Cause that's what they said with the murders. But every now and then, you get people that are not in the murder, but they are bad asses too, and they get punished, and they get sent to as well. - But it's wild that your first move was not to use your fist, but it was to go out somebody with a razor where you could have hit an artery or something, you could have like seriously injured them, maybe killed them. - Again, at that age, and at that mindset, selfish. I don't care. I just want to survive. I just want to live. I don't want dying here. - Yeah. - So that was the mentality. - How do they get those little oixes in? - In razors? - Yeah. - And there were so many ways to get them back in the days, you know, it was smuggled in, it was smuggled in, you know. And people had it. If you see, if you go on my Instagram, I have a video where I'm playing with the razor and flipping it inside out, turning it, making it dance. I used to practice, I used to spit it, catch it out here, you know. - It's too nice with it. - Oh, we practiced. And then my boys used to practice in South Dakota, when you're going to call it, back then, when we're going to call, we used to call that shopping. Because everybody wanted to go to court and dip them fly with the best clothes and shit. So when we get into the court, and we are in the court, and we are, oh, I'm not fucking my size. All right, I'm taking those before we leave here. Before he sees the judge, I'm taking the sneakers. I went, my bummy sneakers, the court, and I sit down next to him, and I say, yo, what's up? I can spit the red, yo, take them shit off, yo, running shit, you know. So dude, he's been, yo, rich, you don't even fit them shit. And I used to tell him, yo, I got JL feet. I got JL feet. I fit from size six to 12. If it looked good, I'm a rocket, you know. And they gave the shoes up. They didn't want no smoke. - I'm going to get cut. Oh, you're going to get the shoe up. It's whoever gets the drop, you know. And I already had a little reputation ready. So I feel like I didn't really need the sneakers, but I always believe you can't live off what you did years ago. If you want people to continue respecting you, you got to keep putting in that work. You can't just say, I'm going to put in work now. And for two, three years, I'm going to just lay back and chill. Hey, my fucking thing, I respect that. I'm not going to respect that. Back then, I'm not like that no more. I'm saying back then, I don't respect that. Oh, you against them? All right. Wait, you just have somebody four years ago. Four years ago, I was going to shoot fucking. Now, I don't respect that. So you always have to constantly reinforce your rep, you know. Did you get tested by new guys after you've been in there a while at Rikers? Not, not on my first bit as much because he was, he was, he was strike first, never loses, you know. So, but my second thing when I went back in, when I was trying to get, trying to be laid back, trying to not be on some rah-rah shit because I was older already. And the first 18 years, I never got like, stab bad, bad. Like, when I say bad, get set for the outside hospital. Like, I've this big when I went back in this time. I was like 40 something and because of my reputation, my last bad, I got stabbed from behind, right in the mess hall. And they had to shut the jail down. Right, it happened. I had to go to get flown out to outside hospital. Yeah, I tried to take my eye out. You can take my eye out and stab me in my temple, you know. So, you know, so you had a full on shank. You had to touch us in arms. It was shank. But it was a fiberglass shank, I think, because we had to go through the metal detectors in our mirror to go into the mess hall. So it was definitely a fiberglass shank that you hit me with. I never even thought about it much about it, because, you know, it's casualties of war. It shit happened. You live that lifestyle. You can't cry about it. You got lucky, though. You didn't. I got lucky, yeah. God bless. It didn't hit my eye or it didn't hit me in the temple, you know. But it was bad. It was gashed over here. And then the police hit me with the spray because I kept fighting. Yeah. And it was full blown right in the mess hall. They fired man shots into the mess hall. So they was like, I was like, yo, I'm the one that got stabbed. Why are you spraying me? And he says, just, yo, NG, because that's the way I call it. NG, just lay down, just stay down. But you know, you're so frustrated that you got stabbed. And blood is pouring down your face. And all you see is red, you know. I've forgotten that. I forgot I was like 46 years old. I was like, yeah, but fuck, I'm still 23, I'm fine. Yeah, those days over. This episode is sponsored by Mars Met. I was thinking about this the other day. Why does it take me longer to recover from workouts? Why do I have less energy? Why do I have this stubborn lower body fat? I basically eat the same. I work out the same because I'm getting older. I'm not in my 20s anymore. And I'm not going crazy. This happens to a lot of people, especially men. And what's interesting is that a lot of people think it's just normal, but it's actually hormonal. As you get older, your body starts shifting, holding on to more fat, losing muscle a little faster. And it can turn into a cycle that's tough to break. And again, that's why I cannot recommend Mars Met enough. Look at that. That is a half-empty bottle. I take three of these bad boys every day. Mars Met is a natural supplement designed to support healthy testosterone levels using ingredients like tone-got, Ali, Shilaijit, Zinc, and Borong. I mean, those have got to work because I can't even pronounce them. No weird stimulants, nothing synthetic, just stuff that's meant to help your body function the way that it's supposed to. And for me, it's been more about how I feel day to day, and more consistent energy, better focus, and honestly, just feeling stronger in the gym again. Plus, I want to. Some men reported it helps with things like staying leaner, better recovery, and just having that steady drive back. Like I said, I have three of these every morning after I have breakfast. It's made in the USA, right here in Austin, Texas. Third party tested, and they even have a 90-day money-back guarantee, so there's really no downside to trying it out. For a limited time, our listeners get 50% off, 50% off, half off for life. Hello. Plus free shipping and three free gifts. God, that's a whole bunch of s---. That's mengotomars.com for 50% off and three free gifts when you check out. Why wouldn't you do that? And it's also available on Amazon. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you. Was ice-creaming? That's because I got excited. Marsmen makes me excited, and I want you to feel the benefits just like I have. Thank you very much. So when you're at Rikers, obviously your family is just devastated, I'm sure. Have you been estranged from them these years that you between the murder and the time that you ran away when you were 11, 10, 11 years old, were you estranged from them or were you still keeping in touch? Now, I was semi-ashamed because every now and then, they used to try to sneak down the sheet and like, stash me off the sheet and bring me home and force me to stay home. Like, they didn't just abandon me, but I was running for them, you know? Like one time, I was walking down the street and next thing you know, somebody jumped out the car and I'm thinking it's an enemy and I almost reached back and pulled out. But then I looked and it was my mom and my dad. He was trying to snatch me. He was bringing me home. And I saw him and I just took off. I took off and as I'm running Canal Street, it's y, y, block. And I ran across and I was hit by like two cars. And then I see my mom, my dad stopped, he's smart. My mom, I see her, she just kept running so I said, no, I can't let my mom get it by call. So I just said, stop, stop. I'm not going nowhere. You got me. You got me. I said, I'm going to lay down. Don't run across the street. I don't want my mom to get hit by a car, you know? So they grabbed me back through me in the car and it was their friend's car, so that way that I wouldn't recognize the family call and whatever and they took me back home. Wow. And then when they go back to work. Yeah. I feel like your generation, there was just like thousands of kids like you. Like almost like, yeah, orphans runaways that just lost, lost in the New York world, the underworld. Yeah. And their parents are working all the time. Yeah. You know, and there's nothing. There's no help. No. You know? Yeah. And it's not, and it's not because of lack of caring from the parents. No. It's that they found the old traditional way of making sacrifices no matter what for the future. You know, so even when, even when I know a lot of families that they established that I look at them, they're wealthy. But they still live that frugal lifestyle because they're always preparing for the future because they grew up, they grew up in an era where tomorrow's meal was not promised, you know? That's, that's one of the reasons a lot of people immigrated to America for, for bright the future because, you know, in this world, there are a lot of places in this world where no matter how advanced we think that country is. The next day is not promised for the citizens of those countries. So when they come here, sometimes they bring that mentality over as well and they think they're doing the right thing and it's in a different era they are. But in the American culture, where other kids see other kids and want to emulate and follow the style, follow the height, I don't want to say it hurts the relationship between the kids, but it definitely does, it definitely does. In my community, in Chinese communities, one of the things that was that led more kids my age that a gang of life was, and again, not blaming nobody, but the generation before us that came here, they never filled out those census forms, they never, they didn't vote, they didn't do none of this stuff. So they don't know how much funds that they need to allocate the Chinatown for after-school programs for kids, certain boys and girls clubs. You don't see that in Chinatown because they don't register back then, they didn't, in the census, there's like 50 people living in Chinatown. So there's less police officers, there's not, people say, oh, the police officers in Chinatown are corrupt. No, it's not that they're corrupted, it's that they understand because on paper, there's only a hundred people living in Chinatown, but in reality, there's 5,000 people living in this apartment. Right. No, it's not like, and people say, oh, yeah, that's why they turn a blind eye, it's not that they're trying to blind eye. They was under man, understand? Right, because they didn't assimilate. Exactly right. And you have people that live in Chinatown 40, 50 years that don't speak English. - Right. - Well, you yourself have a Chinese accent still. - I do, right? - Which is funny, yeah. - People tell me that I don't have a Chinese accent, but when I get passionate about stuff, it comes out. But if I'm talking regularly or I'm on the phone, it doesn't come out. - Well, I thought you were a Puerto Rican when I first spoke to you on the phone. - Oh, yeah. - And that's that because you're growing up in the lower East side and everybody's rubbing shoulders with different cultures. - Not hot. - It's a melting pot. And parents, hardworking, traditional Chinese parents can't protect their kids from the influences of New York City, especially back then. It's not gonna happen. Were you abused though? - Abused like what? - Like physically abused? Like, why did you not wanna go home? - Well, at all. - Physical abuse is, there's so many different levels of physical abuse. Like sometimes we grow so numb to it that we don't see that physical abuse. We see it as, you know, this is mandatory. If you fuck up, you get your ass back then, you know? Like I got the shit slapped out of me in front of my principal by my, by, and I don't figure in my life. And the principal was just like, yeah. - He deserved it. - Now, oh my God, you have BCW, you have helicopters in front of the school, you have camera. You may even have pen in front of your house. So I'm about, you know, he's a child of music. And all you do is chastise your child. But I won't say I was abused. I was chastised the way he was chastised. I was punished the way he was taught to punish the child from where he was from. And where he was from, it's acceptable. In America, it might seem like it's unacceptable. So other people might view it as abuse. But, to me, it's not abuse. And so you were just a bad motherfucker. - And you're just a heart-and-a-d. - Yeah, I was not a heart-and-a-d. - What it was. - And you know how they say that my parents was like, yo, don't ever let nobody trick you to join a gang. That's the worst thing to do, let them trick you. Bro, when I tell you, when I was like in school, I was like, yo, where are these people that are supposed to trick me to join a gang? I want to join a fucking gang. And nobody's coming to recruit me. What the fuck is going on? And I actively seek out gangsters. And it was like, yo, I really want to be in a gang one day when I grow up. So it was like the complete opposite of, I mean, of course, there's people that get tricked. Then every now and then, you get some people that wasn't exactly the sharpest knife and enjoy that, seek that type of lifestyle, you know? - Damn, and so you're like a fully-fledged gang member now. You're in-rikers, you're jacking people at knife point, at razor point for their kicks. I mean, this is the shit that rappers rap about when they talk about rikers and taking mother fuckers sneakers. You're doing this shit. Were you pressed, first of all, as a Chinese dude back then, in-rikers, who are you sitting with? Who are you banging with? Who are you bidding with? - Oh, other Asians? - No, when, see, the gang, I didn't really hang out with like too many Asians in there because I was on the mindset that, bro, I'm gonna fucking try to kill me in the street. How can I break bread with you? How can I choose? How can I set it the same table? All right, you didn't pull the trigger, but you boy pulled the trigger. If your boy gets locked up and he comes into this unit, who side are you gonna take? You gonna take his side over mine? You gonna take my side over his? That's your gang brother. No, hell no, we're not breaking bread. We're not being cool. 'Cause at any given time, we are on that lifestyle. I don't know who's gonna roll through that door. So, no, I'm not friends with nobody that I have beef with in the streets. If your cousin's mother's aunt's sister was a fucking flying dragon, no, we can't sit at the same table. No, we can't break bread together. No, we're not friends. - Who are you with? - I grew up in Brooklyn, so I hung out with mostly Brooklyn dudes. We are from the same area. We grew up in the same area. - Black dudes? It was mixed, predominantly black, 'cause you know, I grew up in the black neighborhood, so, but a lot of kids that grew up with their, remember me from the streets, as a child, not as a gang member, but as the only Chinese kid in the hood, you know. - So you didn't have to like, segregate by race and rikers? That's not how I was. - Not really, not that much, not that much. I mean, the race, the thing was like levels, how I get to what race picks on who, and stuff like that. And you know, it's funny because gangs in prison, that's how they create it. Gangs create other gangs through oppression. Like, I won't say I was fortunate, but I was there to witness the growth of so many gangs and seen the reason why they was created. And it falls under the same misconception that Asian gangs, they start off as trying to protect the community and end up once again, the power, they start feeling themselves a little too much and they start becoming what they was created to fight, you know. So the oppressors become the oppressors and the oppressors create more gangs. And that's how Lang King's, and I was there when Lang King's first came to New York State Prison System in Rikers Island in 1992, when before when there was only existed in Chicago. And when they first started, they started so they could, it was mostly for the Rikers. So they could stick together and be unified against other races that was oppressing them. And you know, back then they had other groups that was more powerful than oppressed them, that oppressors are non-English speaking. It wasn't about the race. If you didn't speak English right, as kids, you're gonna get picked on, you know. So the oppression with that wasn't really about race with how you talk and stuff like that or where you from. And that caused the Latino community to get together and take something from another state and create it's own in New York. And in turn, once they got into power, the proceeds became the oppressors. It started pressing a lot of black dudes and stuff like that. And what happened? The black dudes took a West Coast gang and created the bloods in New York State. And that was in 1995. It was so quick that the transitions happened because when you're being oppressed and you're fighting for your life and you're being picked on, you know. It's, you're gonna go with whatever means. That's the easiest route. It was easier than let's band together and we outnumber them. Why was that in the pickle? I said a lot. And, you know, we're for the peoples. All right, y'all for the peoples. But when you're in power and you don't no longer have an enemy to fight, you know. I mean, who is the devil if he didn't fight God? You have to, and once the oppression is gone, now I'm in power now. What do I do with all this power? That's why they pressed off with these other sets and other hoods. And then eventually the class was each other as well because once you got rid of all the enemies, it happened and you get in fighting. Yeah. And that's fighting. Were you oppressed at Rikers at all? Did you, oppression's an interesting word because it's what it is. You know, you're oppressed by the system and you're oppressed by the gangs within the system. I wasn't oppressed by the gang because I had Chinese, I spoke English and I got busy and I'm cool. So I wasn't really oppressed as much. And again, my mentality was so warped and wrong that I thought it was cool to be a bully back then. So when I went to jail, I was a bully. Did you do time in the hole at Rikers? In Rikers, yeah. For what? I called the razor before. I got caught for cutting, I got caught for. You know, when the rye squad runs through the hallway, you got to put your hands on the wall. I was like, I'm tired today. I'm gonna put my hands on the wall. Fuck it. Call it the second squad. So you know, I had a lot of issues. I had a lot of issues. Did they fuck you up? Hell yeah. Hell yeah, they did. I've been waking up in the YMU pin all the time. I jammy, lips rolling. And they'd be like, you know what happened? Oh, no, fuck it. I had fun. And they'll beat the brakes off of you, especially back then, the cops, right? Without hesitation. Without hesitation. And you cut somebody after you didn't just cut your, the man, Tiny, you actually, you actually hit somebody clean. I'm calling him Tiny now, because he's still a close, close friend of mine. Fair enough. We still go, we still meet like once a month to go out to dinner and stuff like that. And he always shows me a little bullshit scratch. We still got it, bullshit scratch. You can only see him when he shaved his head. And he's like, yo, I should have fucked you up in that. He was such a good guy. Like, like, so good way to meet a friend. Never judge a book by his cover. Because he looked like a monster, but kind of his heart. Gentle soul, I'm saying. We all made mistakes to get incarcerated, but he's somebody that I would not say is evil. That's a good heart. You guys still show people that fucking evil. Evil to the bone. Did you see that in there? Did you see that? You're like, OK, this guy's going to be here forever. I had a lot of friends that had like, like, sentences that was never going out. I don't look at them as evil, because they're my always. But people from the outside looking in will be like, yo, this guy's a problem. This guy's a beast. So did you have-- I assume you had a public defender. Did you have a paid lawyer? I paid lawyer. I was in the game. I paid lawyer. So the gang put up the money for the lawyer. OK. That's good of him, at least. I shouldn't have. Really? I said I had a public defender. It was a dump truck. Lawyer wasn't good, or what happened? What-- out of the case, you took a plea-- I think it was what happened. I ended up taking a plea. For how long? 3 to 9. 3 to 9? 3 to 9. 3 to 9 for killing a dude. I was 16. Everybody was killing people back in '90s. Everybody. So there's a whole dorm of just adolescence under 18 years old. 50 beds on the side, 50 beds on the side. Everybody's in the farm side. So it was the '90s, it was like towards the end of the crack So there was no viable role models for everybody, for every culture. Not just for Asian, African-American, or white people. Like, at that time during the height of the crack era, all the role models were strung out. It was like back in the days with the dolphins. It was a cycle. I just happened to live in the tail end of the crack era cycle. So, it wasn't just Asians, it's everybody. We had no, we didn't know the value of life. We didn't care. You know, you see people all day in the street. You see people robbing each other. You see people family and dogs, generals, for rock. So, you know, how can you respect human life? So, you know. These crack dealers had six senses of humor. Six, six, six. Like, oh, you come in with $8, not $10. Take a look at Pugs Balls. Yeah, take a look at Pugs Balls. And give it a rock. That's how it was. You know who I was, you know? I mean, no, not like that. But not quite like that. So, it was murder too. It was manslaughter. I was delighted for a second to be murdered. I played guilty to first degree manslaughter. Okay. And then they proved that you reloaded. They proved that. I had to tell them the whole story. I had to tell them the whole case. Right. In order to plead guilty in New York, and they already know. Because so many people were right in. So many, and I got caught on camera before being getting caught on camera was a thing. Because I did it inside the pool hall right in front of the cash register. I don't know what I was thinking. But, yeah, I was caught on camera. So, yeah. There was no point. So, did he turn his back? Or was he facing you? Did he have a gun? He's facing him. He picked up the pool's thing. I could smash the pool's thing. We were supposed to fight outside. No, I didn't. I didn't want to cause a scene in the pool or whatever. But, you know, I heard loud noises. He was with the crew. I was with the crew. And next thing you know, I heard the pool's thing crack. I was alright. I didn't wait that side. Wow. Was that the first time you shot somebody? Huh. No, it was not the first time I shot somebody. I didn't get locked up before for shooting at somebody. No way. So, this wasn't even your first time in jail. At 16. Oh, no. I mean, we get bragging for questioning all the time. But, I was never formally indicted for how I was signed into that case. Wow. But, every time something happens in China, we always get rounded up. Yeah. Oh, and they don't tell us you're getting rounded up as a perpetrator. Yeah. But, you know, this is the reason we need you to stay in this. But, meanwhile, they want the victim to identify us. Right. That's dirty. They're trying to do anything to you guys. When I got locked up for the murder, I was in there. I was 16, right? They took people from the police academy to send a line of women, adults. Three adults here. Two adults here. I'm the only 16-year-old kid in there. I mean, I was guilty. But, like, that's-- Yeah. How can you be mistaken? I know. It was like, put me in there with like four black dudes. When you might as well do that. I know we all look alike. But, seriously-- They are adults. And then the police academy, they're clean and shabin' like-- Wow. That's correct. I don't think they use that-- I think that's pretty much inadmissible now. Like, for a prosecutor to try to use eyewitness testimony to get a guilty plea. But, back then, yeah. Back then, dude. They were more lenient. That's the law enforcement back then, you know. It was weird, because they were more lenient with law enforcement and more lenient with sentencing. Yes, you know. Very much. Like, now you just get smacked. You'd probably be doing like 20 years for a murder like that now. Even if it was for a first-degree manslaughter. Well, when I went back in the second time, I went in there for punches about you. I punched them one time. They gave me seven years with that. So the laws have changed. Right. Opposed to the level of the laws back then. Right. It's more severe now. What do you do, sir? So, you've got three to nine. Yeah. Where do you go first? Now, you're up state. Now, you're in-- You don't go to a juvenile prison. No. Because you're 18 now, right? Yeah, I'm 18. But I was already charged as an adult. They just put me in the adolescent wing. But once you go up state, you're just a-- You're a man in prison. You're a number. Yeah. You're no longer-- Oh, you're the youngest kid here. You're a number. You don't exist no more. You feel like a three to nine. You're like, oh, I got a good deal. Yeah, I did. I did. Yeah. But it's funny, the perspective in there. You hear people. I heard people on the chain saying, yeah, dude, I got 18 for the body. I made out. I did good. And you know what? That really hurt me even more. Because now I had a bigger tip on my shoulder. I was like, I don't go fuck. I don't have a file. No fucking rules. No matter what. Nine years, I know what date I'm going home. I don't even fuck. So, tuck your shirt in. I'm going to fuck you. Go to program. Get the fuck out of here. I got a date. I'm going to go home regardless. Whether I'm good or bad, I'm going to go home on this date, no matter what. So, what? So, that's why I didn't learn. That's why I ended up going back in. So you're just thinking about that max date. You're like, oh, do not. You're not the max date. That's all when they say, oh, you're going though. So what? I could go home from the hole. Who cares? No visits. So what? I was visiting my home. No, that was the mentality and look what it got me. I didn't go to no programs. I didn't go to school. And they released me because they had no choice but to release me. And I went home with no training, no skills, no nothing. This episode is sponsored by Hymns. I am so proud to have Hymns as a sponsor. You guys know what it is. ED treatment from the comfort of your home. Used to being the old days. If you couldn't get your prick hard, you had to go down to Tijuana and meet some dude in a ski mask in a dark alleyway to get your medicine. No more. Just go online. Go to Hymns.com. They'll connect you with a licensed health care provider so you can get access to ED treatment from home. You just fill out a quick intake, a provider reviews it. And if treatment makes sense, it gets shipped straight to your door. They offer options like Sildenafil, which is of course just generic Viagra. And it can be way more affordable than the brand name. Not can be. Will be. And if that's not the right fit, they've got other options too. So it's really about finding what works best for you. Really, they've got like a menu of ED treatment options there. It looks like a Chinese buffet. It's straightforward, it's simple, and it takes away a lot of that friction that keeps people from taking action. To get simple online access to personalized, affordable care for ED, hair loss, weight loss, and so much more, visit Hymns.com/connect. That's Hymns.com/CONNECT for your free online visit. Once again, Hymns.com/connect. Prescription is required, see website for details and important safety information. Sildenafil is the generic version of Viagra. Viagra is a registered trademark of Yatris specialty LLC. Hymns is not affiliated with or endorsed by Yatris. This episode is sponsored by PrizePix. The playoff push is heating up and tournament hoops are here. This is the best time of the year for sports. I love it. And there's no better way to cash in on all of the action than on PrizePix. And now they've got team picks which I've been messing around with lately. And it honestly makes watching games way more fun. I used to just focus on player picks, but now you can make selections on full games, like picking winners, spreads, and totals. As you can see, I got my PrizePix app open. There's all those different sports I can choose from, but obviously I'm going to the NBA. As you can see, they already have a lot of selections laid out for you. You can make your own if you want, but I just keep it simple. I'm going more or less on two to six player staff projections. I love Anthony Edwards, especially in the postseason. The PRA is points, rebounds, and assists. I selected that he's going to make more than 36.5 for the game. So you see, I just tapped that at the bottom. Boom, make that my selection. Now I just have one more to make. Who's my other player that I love? Hmm, let's go with, let's go with Jalen Brunson. Ah, man, he is so clutch. As you can see, they offer me all of these different selections. I'm just going to keep it simple on this one, even easier points, 27.5. Even though I think he can make more, I'm just going to have some fun and say that he's going to make less than 27.5 points the first game. So you can see, boom, get it ready. I submit my money's already in there. I hit submit lineup, $20 to win 60. That is a triple up folks. Bam, that's how easy it is. And I'm in. I'm in the game. No complication whatsoever. What I like is that it's not just individual games either. You can make picks on bigger outcomes too, like who's taking the whole thing or winning it all later on. It just adds another layer if you're already into sports. And team picks are available in a ton of states, including Texas, which makes it super easy to get started and make your selections right in the app. Download the price picks app today and get $50 in daily fantasy lineups when you play your first $5 lineup when you use code Connect. That's code C-O-N-N-E-C-T to get $50 in daily fantasy lineups when you play your first $5 lineup. This picks, it's good to be right, dammit. PricePix predicts is a registered FCM offering team picks and culture picks as event contracts. Trading involves significant risk, not for all. The content provided is for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute investment advice, a recommendation to trade any commodity interest or an offer to open an account. The Connect is not registered with the CFTC or NFA. PricePix predicts does not endorse or guarantee any statements made by third party promoters or influencers. Please consult with a qualified professional before making any trading decisions. I don't want to jump ahead here. I'm trying to keep it sequential. So tell us about the first bid. Like you're just a hardhead rockin'. What did you get into? A lot of things. I was selling drugs in there. I was living the same life I was living in the streets. What's the exception of female companionship? Right. Did you sold drugs on the street? I actually did. I didn't sell drugs until I went to jail. I've never sold drugs in the street. I didn't sell drugs. I sold my first. And so my first back in dope in prison, you know, like, I never even, I never was even around that stuff, you know. Right, right, right. I was so young. My duty on the sheet was just to cause me him. Right. I wasn't a shaker, big. I wasn't an earner. Right. You know, you have different levels in the organization. I wasn't an earner. I was the one that, yo, there's a party over here. It's an Asian night, yo, who would make pops and shit off, you know. Right, right. That was my thing. So you were hustling in prison now? And I was hustling. I ain't even in these houses. I just want to be, I just want to be in the loop. Yeah. I want to motherfuckers to like beg me for a bag, you know what I'm saying? Like, you got people strung out like that in prison? Yeah, yeah, dope was bad. Like, it was so bad. Like, okay, I'll tell you a story of this one incident, right? Like, people would drop their prize for anything. I just came out to, I just came out to box. And this box was a, the whole facility was a box. So once you finished, it's a, it's a super max box here. Southport. You could, they only do SHQ time over there. Especially on the isolation. And I just came out to box. So I went to this other, I went to, when I go, I went there for a DU show. I went back, I went to Orleans, I think. And the porter there, the porter there, I had no cigarettes because my property didn't come with me yet. So I told the porter, yo, I'm going to y'all later on when they call y'all, I'm going to get some cigarettes. But yeah, I just came here, yo. We bought a pack of cigarettes until, and he was like, nah, I want to help you, but this is my hustle. I only juggle, meaning that one for two. And my, my policy is, yo, I'm never going to pay nobody one for two. Like, if you letting it to me, I'm paying you back. But, you know, you're going to suckle, you're going to juggle to me. Yeah. So I was like, you know what? I respect your hustle. I don't want it, I'm good. Went to the y'all, came back, cigarettes. That weekend, I want to visit, came back with the bag. Bag of dope. Well, when I said bag of dope, the whole loonie from dope. I came back with a two to three grand. Explain that, what the whole loonie, what is that? A balloon. Okay. Got it. I was a woman. So I came back in, I went my son bag it up, and then he's the border. So he runs around. And then he was like, and he sees everybody calling me, yo, raise boom. You coming out tonight? They know. They know who came off the visit, and they know what time it is. So he came up to me. And I was like, yo, I heard you got that bad. I said, yeah, I do. You know. He said, uh, can I buy one? Of course you can buy one. He said, now I've been misunderstood. Bro, I'm a businessman. He said, yo, right now, how much? I said, go rate. I'm going to charge you extra eight packs. He's like, y'all have eight packs right now. I only got four packs. I don't know if I'm putting four packs. Came to myself, gave me four packs, four packs of cigarettes. I took the bag of dope, opened it up. I put these, put the bag in half. Do it on the floor. Well, here's four packs. Do you know? That's the type of power that drugs have on you. Like, he had to accept that type of humiliation if you want his bag. Yeah. And I only did that to him because, yo, there wasn't a dog's balls around it. You want to juggle me a pack of cigarettes? You couldn't give me a pack of cigarettes. I wouldn't give you like two bags of free right now. Just to tell you, yo, watch the police while I'm bagging up. Put my sheet up, put my mirror up. I don't need you now. And now when you come to cop, I'm going to humiliate you. Are you going to get four packs of the problem here? Open the bag up. I showed him, I don't even want the bag. I just put that shirt on the floor. You cut the bag up. They're here. Here's your four pack. Oh. You wonder or not. I'll give you your four packs back, motherfucker. Right. That was the type of mental power. Power. That's why I was selling drugs in there. Because you get that power trick. You get that. You get that, yeah, motherfucker sweating you. Yeah. You have that over people over people. Was that a rush for you? It was. It was. It was a sick. When I was younger, that was a rush for me. I feel like, I felt like, uh, Tony Montana. Right. Right. And so, uh, uh, gram and dope sold for eight packs of cigarettes. Oh, hey. No way more, right? Oh, hell no. A gram and dope, I used to make 32 jail bags out of it. Okay. How much is a jail bag? Eight packs of cigarettes. Okay. So that's mad cigarettes, mad cartons of cigarettes. Uh, hundred. That time. Hundreds of carts. I don't want cigarettes. I usually have to send money out to my people or whatever, you know, or, or, or. Because a whole gram should sell for like hundreds of dollars. That's how the whole gram. Yeah, yeah. Bringing that shit down. Yeah. I'm bringing that shit down. One gram, 32 bags, each bag, $20, uh, uh, street to street. I make almost like $600 off of a gram that my people spent $75 for. You know. Why? So, who were your people on the street? My friends. My friends that, that stayed loyal to me. Right. And the Chinese had that heroin connection. It was like a Puerto Rican. I was, I was too small in the game. Yeah. I was, uh, that was above my pay grade. Yeah. Like, even the dope I was getting in prison, I had my little homies go cut from Paul in some way. I was like, yeah. Like, it wasn't even like, I had the line or whatever. How are they getting it in? Uh, they came to visit me. You just swallow it? I swallow it. Nice. And then if I go back, uh, hopefully come back off. Yeah, yeah. We just had a guy on here yesterday. He said he would get weed in. He and how black guys are always getting the weed in. And he said he had a guy. It was his connect. He, front of the money. They put. Like a few ounces. Compressed it into a condom. And this guy dildoed. The weed condom. In his ass. Boofed it. That's the whole thing. That's very, very common. It's all put in the trunk. Like, you know, practicing the trunk. And the search comes. You don't want to get caught, but. Back to the trunk before they get in there. You better put your pride aside. And you bet. Yeah. If you want to live that lifestyle, like. So when, when, if you're. This is going to be a little gruesome, but if you put the junk in the trunk. And you got to spread your ass and cough for the guards. They won't come out. No. Wow. That's just shoots right up into your guts. Wow. You want, you want to hold it in and not put. This is a, it's a natural reflex. You don't got shit hanging out. Yeah, that's all right. So you're not going to have a bleeding. You should go right into it. But you got to really put it up there. No, no, no, no. Your body naturally is. I don't know. I don't know. The science behind it. But kids, if you're thinking about gay sex. So. This is thinking again. It goes right up in your guts. Yeah. Pause. New York motherfuckers say pause after that. Wow. That's wild. Did you have to do that? Well, I never had to do that. Wow. Because I was like, I had people working for me. Like, right. I get the drugs. Well, when you have the power. Yo, here. Hold this for me. You know, when we go to y'all, hold this for me. Bring this out to y'all for me. I got you. I give him two, three bags. He's happy. He's going to hold the hold. And I'm walking around the yard. Every time we make a sale, yo. Give him five. Give him three. He thinks he's my homie. He thinks my right amen. But, you know, we both serve each other purpose. So you're running shit. I'm running shit. I'm running shit. But I'm running shit. I'm living in the circle. Right. I'm doing what everybody else does. I'm not unique. Everybody doesn't. No. Everybody survives the old way. Compared to the streets, though, you are. You have people working for you now. You have real power. Like, you didn't. Yes. Yeah. That's what I mean. Like, you did level up. If you're looking at this sick world. Yeah. You did level up in prison. Yeah. But I didn't look at it as then working for me. It's the crew, you know? Yeah. No, nobody rides for free. Then with the crew, I, you my boy. Yeah. We're cool. But we in jail. There's only one picture of my ID card. You know, I got to take it myself. So, you know, crew. All right. You want to get high for free? All right. Earn your keep. Anybody earn their keep? You know, I have no problem helping y'all earn your keep. But I'm not just sugar daddy. Did you ever get a ticket? Or did they ever search for sell today? I mean, I know you got tickets. Yeah. But did you ever catch any kind of paper for drugs? Yeah. Yeah. I got caught a few times. I caught a few times. People telling me. People that owe a lot. Oh, shit. I don't want to pay. Let me tell the subject. Or somebody that got caught with drugs. You know? And I know their question you. Because when I got caught, they questioned me. You know? They took me right to the washroom in this office. And they gave me a scene. And they gave everybody a thing I caught. Hey, listen. We don't want you. We just want to know where the drug is coming from. You know? So if you help us out, we can help you out. And then, you know, I'm wise. I've been worried. You can help me. He's like, yeah. Nobody will know. He's like, no, nobody will know. I said, yo, you gave it to me. You don't remember. You guys, obviously get this asshole back to his cell. Hey, I'll tell you, but I want to sprite first. No, I want to go out. I was just fucking with him. Like, sometimes when you're in there, you just do shit 'cause you're bored. Like, one time, I was in solitary confinement and they had me behind the door with the glass. And it was kind of cold in there. So when the nurse is walking by, do they round? I said, no, no, no. I was bored. I said, yo, come here. Come here. I need you. I need you. And they came over and said, what happened? And I kept looking behind myself. Like, there was somebody in there, but it wasn't. It was a single cell. So she's interested. The staff that's escorted, it was a sergeant, that was escorted around the box, was interested. And they're like, calm down. Tell us what's going on. I was like, I'll tell you who. And then they were like, just tell us. And when the glass there, I went, I fogged it up. And I said, I see dead people. That's when the six days came out. And every time he said, you see dead people, like smoke would come out. Like, we used to just find dumb shit in here just to pass the time. No, go ahead. No, go ahead. Sometimes they can't help but tell us. - Of course. - They don't want life in front of us, but you know. - And you've been interrogated so much, like even on the street that it didn't seem to scare you, right? - I'm interrogating. - Like it's. - Jail, were you going to lock me up? - Yeah. - What were you going to the whole? I know I'm going to the whole. What are you going to do, lock me up? I got a set date. You guys, you could put me on the moon. I'm going to go home on that date. Put me on the fucking moon if you want to. That was my mentality back then. - Did your parents try to get you to calm down so you could get out earlier? - Oh, they did. - Yeah, three, four. - Yeah, and you know what? I want to say that. Now they say some people didn't get arrested. They got rescued. I was that. I didn't get arrested. I got rescued because I didn't live at home. I didn't get a chance to know my parents. I didn't get to know their story. I didn't know about their trials and tribulations. I learned everything through the prison visit floor when they used to come up to visit me. After I betrayed them and ran away from them, they still forgave me and came back up to visit me. Like, you know, who don't get the credit? Like people always glorify prison and glorify all the shit they done in jail. That shit is so shameful. There's nothing to be proud of doing that shit. You know who are the real unsung heroes? The people that fucking take the time out to sit on a bus for eight fucking hours to come up, say to visit you for three hours and then take a bus back for eight hours. And nobody owes you that. But these people take the time out of their life to come make sure you're okay, to make sure you're holding it together. Because I'll be honest, if I wasn't getting the love from my parents or visits or whatever, my mind said might've been even more twisted. But it's the love that they showed, the unconditional love of, you know, when they come through that visiting room, I went back up to visit my friends before after I came home. They don't treat visitors great. They treat you like they treat the prisoners, stand over here, pull your shirt out, oh, your bras ring and take your bra off. Like, how can you tell somebody that never committed a crime, take your bra off to go visit somebody? Like, I had witnessed that firsthand and I'm like, you know, nobody gives these to fathers, the mothers, the grandmothers, the daughters, the sons, the cousins, the brothers and sisters, the friends that come up and take the time out to visit somebody that society forgot about. Those are the unsung people. Those are people that should get all the glorifying. If you want to wrap about something, wrap about that, wrap about how your boy or your sister that's from somebody else, held you down your whole bed and came up and supported you. Like, those are stories that should be out there. Not stories, oh, I was robbing people, I was stealing people, I was doing this, I was doing that. You know, that's the easy way anybody can do that. I'm not unique. Anybody can be a fucking asshole. It's it. - Well, unfortunately, that's what we do here on this podcast. So, you better start telling me some stories. I got stories, I got stories, but, you know, at the end of the day, I don't want people to think I'm glorifying my past. I'm very ashamed of my past, but my past is what led me to where I am today. So, I have to accept that. And if my story can help somebody else, not change a three to nine to 18 years, or after doing 18 years going back for some stupid shit, then I feel like I did something, you know. But there are definitely stories. - So, you got out in nine years? - No. - Oh God, 18 years. - All right, so it's not like you got out and then came back and then went back. - Never. - Okay, got it, okay. So, tell us about how you kept catching more years. - Of course they haven't somebody. - What year was that? Do you remember? Do you remember what year into your bid? - Yeah, yeah, it was close to the 30 here. - Right. - Right, so what facility? - I got caught. - That's the one I got caught for. And they arrested me for that. - Where, which prison? - Right, right 'cause I don't see 74. - So you got caught stabbing somebody before you even sentenced? - Before I even got sentenced, yeah. - I didn't know that. - That's why. - Because I was facing 25 of life. I was there for a homicide, I didn't see it. - Okay, damn. - What happened? Tell us what happened. - Apparently the shit that they were tiny, they'd work. So that went to another house, I had to do it again. But like I said, you built your reputation up, but you can't keep living off your reputation. People are gonna try you. Like what had happened with me was, we was in the day room, we was watching a movie, it was called Death Warren. It was with Vandem, it just came out. So we watched the movie and before the movie was over, it was kill time. So we didn't get to watch the end of the movie, everybody had to lock in. So we locked in, of course we all hyped, don't know how the movie ended, so we had to get talking to each other. And then somebody else was like, "Yo, I'm gonna fuck a Vandem." It was a bad motherfucker, and you know, I'm trying to get down with the crowd, so I'm like, "Yeah, here I am, but he ain't fucking Bruce." So he's like, "What?" And my fucker kicked Bruce Lee's ass. I said, "Why are you stupid?" Bruce Lee kicked his ass. And he's like, "What? You don't know about fighting fuck you and fuck, no, fuck Bruce and fuck you." I said, "What?" "Fuck me." I said, "I hope you feel that same way when you come out." And he was like, "I don't give a fuck, suck my dick." And you know, "Jell, you can't let nobody tell you suck my dick." You can stuff junk in the trunk, but you cannot let somebody in. You're gonna stick fucking, three fucking ounces of weed up your ass. Nobody's gonna call you a fag. - A gay. - Yeah. - But, somebody's telling you to suck your dick, and you don't do nothing, then you might as well start doing it. - Facts. - 'Cause that's what they're gonna be known for. - We call it sex play, don't sex play me. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't do that. So when he did that, I said, "All right, the whole gallery got quiet." So everybody heard it. The whole gallery got quiet. I'm sitting in my cell, I'm like, "Hey, man." And I don't know how to kill this dude. He fucking tried to hit me. He hit me just now, you know? So, I said, "You know what?" I'm gonna just stab him a few times. I'm not gonna kill him. So when the cell was open, but before the cell was open, he sends me a kite. You know what kite is, and I love it. With the suicide, he said, "You're rich, I'm sorry, but my boss, "shick, I carry it out of here." But, I was like, "You know what?" "All right, whatever, man." I didn't say yes or no. I said, "All right, whatever, it's all good." You'd like right across from me. So when the minute the cell was open, I didn't even fucking see what was looking at me. I just ran in there, I broke my locker the night before, and I made my way out of the locker as you rushed them. I still got time to do, I can't. I can't have that label, and somebody that accepts those words. I mean, you can tell me that now, I'm gonna be like, "Well, really? "Well, where the hell are you fucking?" But as a kid, you know, yeah, you're pride, whatever. And that's just pride, yeah, yeah. You're willing to live, you know, yeah, bro, you know. - Yeah, and it's not like in prison where you can wait a little bit for like an ideal time to hit 'em. - No. - You can't, you're in, like the time is of the essence, 'cause everybody sees you. - I've never seen it. - You were a punk. - We're not gonna walk to the mess hall together, and then afterwards I'm gonna pop on, you know. Then these doors are open, I'm coming out. So you broke, explain for people who don't know about lockers in New York Jails. - It's like a little locker like this with a door. It's made in like a loom room or whatever. - Yeah. - Inside each locker door, there's like a little flap or whatever, you just bring them, and you bang that out. - Are you sharpening the shit down? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you sharpening the shit down. You got one night, you got one night long, 'cause, bro, there's no way you're gonna see. After somebody tells you the SMD on the cake, you're not sleeping. You got butterflies in your stomach. You know what you gotta do. Like, you're furious. - You're furious. - You're furious. You technically, you really have no more options. So you're just like focused on, you know. And I didn't wanna be placed in that, 'cause you know, there's certain levels in prisoners as well, you know. You know, you've got the height to the low, you know. You let somebody tell you the SMD, you might as well just go hang out with the fucking diapers and the rapes. - Yeah, it's true, you know what I'm saying? And they get it the worst, you know. I first had, I was, I was abusive. - To the diapers, the pedals? - Yeah, because I wasn't on my road, right? And, you know, like I said, I had a reputation so the police were jacking me. So I was born, I was in charge of shaving all their hands and intake when they come, when everybody come through intake, when you come to New York State Prison System, you gotta get your head shaved. That's intake, I worked in intake. So everybody came up and off, I was shaving their head. So the police that, anyone that was in there as a child molester or a rapal, the police would give me the eye and go like this. And I know, after I shaved their head, I'll shave their right eyebrow. So everybody in jail know, you got one eyebrow, your fucking rapal, your diaper sniper. And the officers that doesn't work in the receivables will know that you're a fucking child molester. So when shit happens to you, they turn a blind eye to it, you know. So-- - Damn. - And the guards are-- - That was no problem. That's why they pick somebody that knows that people respect to work in those positions. Because you can't just have anybody just shaving the motherfuckers eyebrow. 'Cause motherfuckers shave my eyebrow. Yo, what the fuck am I doing? But-- - Did they know when you do it? Like, did they look at, yeah, what do they do? The police turn around and I grabbed their fucking neck and I said, yo, you're a fucking child molester. Damn. So, you know, they know, they let me do it. - You're marking it. You're literally like marking a victim. - I have to, I have to. Because all crimes are bad. But any crime perpetrated against children, or any crime perpetrated against people that can't defend themselves, all right. Hey. - Yeah, well. - I wish I was the punisher. (laughing) - Marvel, cast me on the next publishing movie. - Marvel, all right. So we're back to the doors open up at Rikers. You've got your, the piece of metal you just took from your locker and you ran in the dood cell. - Mm. - You just-- - Mm-hmm. [BLANK_AUDIO] They think I'm looking up on the thing. I don't want to get too much into it. The family's still trying to sue me. Still? Yeah. And they're bad. And they're bad. I mean, I don't talk about it, but if people do their research, they can find it. Did he get put in the hospital? Yeah. I mean, how sharp can you make a piece of aluminum overnight? It seems dull. It seems dull when you're rubbing it on concrete. It's going to file. You don't file into a triangle. You just make a point. Well, the people think so much time filing into a triangle to make it look nice. You only need to make it look like a triangle. You need just a point. What you need to do is get it in. Like they say, just get the tipping. Come here, baby. Come here, baby. This is an impotent tip. But yeah, no. So it put holes in them. Yeah. OK. So he gets shipped to the hospital. You get recharge. You get charged? Yeah. It took me right to-- No, they took me to another house first. Then they took me to confinement, the Bing, they call it. And then Bronx Criminal, the-- somebody from Bronx Criminal Court came, the fingerprint reader in the receiving room, bring me the Bronx Criminal Court, fingerprint reader, bring me back. And then I had a court day. So it's a temp murder or what's the charge? Assault. OK. Because right now, it's funny. Yeah, address is in Queens. Because it's an east home verse, the address. But being that the landmass is in the river that has Bronx has a jurisdiction. So whenever you catch a case in the Bronx, in it, you got to go to Bronx Criminal Court. I see. So everybody says, oh, yeah, I used to go to Queens Court when I was a Microsoft fucking line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You catch a case of Microsoft and you're not going to Queens Court. Even though you're in Queens. The Bronx has jurisdiction over. Records down. Makes sense. So OK. Shit. So how was that adjudicated? How much did you-- Do you have a guy? I play guilty. I play guilty. I was ran concurrent with my time. OK, I got you. Yeah, ran concurrent with my time. So wow. And you still got an opportunity to get out in three years? I still had. I was still what I had. But that went up state and, quote, another case, you know. So-- Yeah, I don't know if you have even gone to the parole board of three years after catching that stab in case. No, I would have. There was this hit me. I would have seen all of that bid anyway. I would have seen all of that three to nine. What does that mean? If you don't lose no good time, the longest take a hold you with six years. If you lose good time, then they go to up to nine years. So you started losing good time-- Oh, yeah. I lost all my good time in the first year. I lost all my good time already. I only had three years of good time, so it was easy to lose. I won't take it. I lost a year of good time, so. Real? What was that ticket? Assault. Just beating a dude up? I don't know. With a Brooklyn. Touching them with a-- Now in New York state prisons, is it still like razors like-- The man's. The man's. Yeah. Boom, so you've got just lost a year, just touching a dude. Yeah. And they send you the whole. Yeah. What was your longest whole shot? Seven years. Seven years. What did that-- I caught that in the case. Anybody that been in New York state didn't know what you did if they give you seven years straight. And that was the most recent bid? No, that's bid. OK. You've done so many bids. It caught two bids. Two bids, that one caught two bids. That's two bids. OK, so it was the first bid. When I was 16 to 34, the 18 years. OK, OK, because I-- When I said new bid, I caught it before it was even released. I caught it while I was inside. I know, I get that. How far into your first bid did you catch that whole shot for seven years? 95 to 2001. And three or four years. OK. And that's-- and you also got a new charge. Yeah. OK, can you tell us what happened? Salt. Salt. This is all. A salt on an inmate or a salt on the-- Yeah, it's half. On a CEO? Yeah. And a soldier, too. That's why they did it for so long, you know. Oh, this is cool. You got to call this. You got to try and call this. I would say I'd rather get cold with it than get cold without it. Right. So I always walk strapped, you know? Yeah. So I'm stabbing somebody. They try to break it up. I blanked out. I stabbed him by accident. And then when the squad came and tried to jump me, they hit him me. I'm just swinging wildly. I didn't have intent. It just happened. Where did you hit him? Was it bad? It wasn't a thigh, his arm, and his back. Fuck. Yeah. That's a quite an accident. But the soldier had worse, so you know? That sounds like the JFK magic bullet. Yeah, it went through the guy's arm and up. Yeah, but again, it was the spur of the moment. I was just-- And I would stab myself. So I was bleeding as well, you know? So I was bleeding as well. So it wasn't just like a one-sided thing, you know? It wasn't one-sided thing. You got stabbed? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a stab, I've been cut. So it was a fight with a dude, or you were-- Yeah, because he was armed too. He was armed too. Where, what prison was this at? Sinking. He was inside the fucking auditorium. Wow. It was arrival, or it was just a guy you had beef with? It was always seed. It was always seed. If you're sitting in my seat. Yeah, so that's crazy. So you guys, you were getting the best of them when the cops, or was it-- We had you already been stabbed? I didn't. He was armed as well. When we started arguing, I was like, yeah, yeah, what are you doing sitting here, you know what I'm saying? I didn't know him. And he wasn't a punk either, apparently, you know? So the minute I started hitting him up, he was-- I didn't even know he was in the-- Without two, you know what I'm saying? Where'd you get hit? It was superficial, like on the side, and stuff like that. But definitely ripped my shirt. And it was definitely scratch marks and blood, and something like that, so, you know? And then the sergeant came over as your touchstone with CO. Yeah, and there was like a few COs, you know? But did any-- did the sergeant get touched? Yeah, he touched through, yeah. Where'd he get it? I think on the shin. On the shin, it's thigh, because I was around the ground. Right. I was around the ground. Thank you, shit. Thank you, shit. But, you know, they took it very seriously. So you were charged with-- you re-arrested? Yeah. And then where you brought to court when you get catch a case in Singsang? I said in County. OK, and they're like hicks up there. No, this is-- it's pretty city-like, but no, I click guilty as well, you know? So, you know, I'm not trying to-- What was the charge was assault? Assault. I planted all the way down to assault. OK. How long were you sitting in jail fighting that case? I was-- I was in the box. So they keep you in the box in that Singsang? Yeah, I was not good. No, I wasn't the whole Singsang in the way. Every time I had to go court, they had to drive me back down, because they couldn't keep me in Singsang because staff was hurt. So my life would be in danger. So they had to ship me out that same night. With the guards retaliate like that? Hell, yeah, when I was in the damn state, oh, you like stabbing officers, right? Yeah, I got stuck a bunch of few times going through transit. Then you shackled your handcuffs, you know? And when you go over there, they're like, you know, yeah, that's the guy you think you're going to assault. Oh, yeah, you think you're tough-- Boom! Punch right in your stomach, you know? All right. Take these-- take these cups off. Take these cups off, you know? Sometimes I'll spit back at them. You know, they put the mask on me, but, you know, I learned that fighting back, you can't win when you shackled. No. You can't win when you shackled. It's the most vulnerable, beautiful, crazy. But I did get payback one time. I did get payback one time. I was in a-- which box was this? This was in Collins S. Block. Collins S. Block is-- everybody there is solitary confinement. No human contact. You got to shower in the back of the cell. You got your wreckage in the back of the cell that they open up one hour every day for you, one hour mandatory wreck. So you literally have no human contact with nobody, unless you get a visit, or unless-- even sick call saying the doctor, they come to your gate. You don't leave. You don't leave your cell. Sounds like the feds or something. Sounds like supermax and-- It's like a supermax. It's like a supermax. Like I used to communicate with this dude that was in-- he was in 39 cell. And I think I was in 40-- I was in 45 cell at that time. That was in the middle of the gallery. So I never get-- I never seen how he looked. But through the event, we used to play chess together. So I was far, far, far away. That was like nine hours from New York City. So I was in the middle of the game. I didn't have a visit for like four or five months at that time. So I never got to leave myself. So they call me for a visit. So I said, oh, shit, I get to see what's-- something look like now, boom. As we were going towards the visit, I guess he was asleep or whatever, because I called him. He didn't come to the gate. So I'm coming back for a visit. I'm walking slowly now. I'm calling him, I'm calling him, I said, yo, yo, come to the gate. Let's see what you fucking look like, bro. And then he comes again, the police pushes me. He said, yo, it's in your fucking fashion. So I'll keep walking. Now, I'm shackling, I'm handcuffed in black box. Everything, I'm like, it's in your bro. You ain't got to push me. He's like, just keep moving. Again, I'm going to tend your horse. The whole gallery is watching. Spectatus. I said, yo, you're going to fuck me with this. He's like, keep moving. Go. He feels safe, because he knows these handcuffs don't come off of me inside myself. So I'm in front of myself. I'm facing the wall. They unlock the padlock to take the chain off. The chain that connects the handcuffs to your stomach. They take that off. They take the chain off. Then you back into your cell. They open up the bottom of your cell. You stick your leg out. They take the leg arms off. You're still handcuffed, you know what? Your cell is very full, so you can't get them. So I turn them back around, stuck my hand out. When you handcuffed this cuff, boom, I snatched my hand back in. Took the cuff, put it around like this. So now you got to come in here and get it. You like putting your hands on me? Now I'm not going to be shackled. Come in here and get it. So come in my fucking cell and get these fucking handcuffs. And you know, they shut down the jails from missing key. So imagine he can't return that handcuffed to the armory. I know the sergeant, everybody, he's getting rid of number one. I know it's going to go on his jacket. I know I'm fucking up his career because you just got a handcuff snatched from you from somebody that shackled. And now-- - At a hitch, humiliated. - He's humiliated. I'm not giving it back. Sergeant came. Watch Commander came. They said, "Yo, uh, uh, bring the handcuffs out." Mayor Poli said, "They don't buy a cell yet. Mayor Poli's front. We turn the handcuffs." I said, "We'll tell you what happened." He said, "Yo, we don't negotiate." What you're doing is similar to a hostage situation. We don't have to negotiate. I don't want to hear it. We turn the cops in and we'll talk. I said, "If that's okay, fuck you, suck my dick." I ain't even doing nothing. I started ripping my sheets up. I started wrapping my sheets around my wrist so they can't handcuff me when they run up in my cell. Then my boys and the cells next to me said, "Yo, Rich, they about to smoke you out, 'cause they put plastic on my door." 'Cause they tell me from the vent, 'cause they have to put plastic on the cell doors, so the smoke don't go in their cells, so they try to smoke me out. I said, "I'm good. I'm good. I'm good." The minute they threw the fucking smoke bomb in my cell, took my pillow, fucking jam, that shit in my toilet. They shut my water off, but I was still able to hold the initial smoke inside the toilet so I couldn't get smoked out. So okay, okay, so sorry, they interrupt. They put the smoke up through the plumbing. No, not through the plumbing. They dropped the smoke bomb into my cell with the feed-up slot. I picked it up with my pillow and put it in the toilet to try to do something, you know what I'm saying? So I said, "What? Next, what?" And everybody on the guy was like, "Yo, Rich, go, Rich, yo, yeah, yeah, fuck, now, revolution, revolution." So I'm like, "Yeah, you fuck, that revolution, come in here." Bro, when I said I'd wrap my wrist up with my sheets, I was ripping the rim in front of them, so I've been in situations where once they get the handcuffs on you, it's over. The fight is over. Who you are? So I said, "I'm not gonna let them put the handcuffs on you if I get a couple swings off." So I'm wrapping the shit up, wrapping the shit up, but yo, they had anything you could think of security as an answer to, because the minute they opened that gate, they came in with a shield that was like this fiberglass, that's like this, and they just pinned me right into the corner. I couldn't even swing from the bottom. They pulled my legs out. Next thing you know, I woke up, I was in the hospital. I didn't even get a punch off. I woke him in the hospital, you know? So, you know, but you won. In my opinion, you won that altercation. I won that altercation because now, now only did I increase my reputation. Everybody that's on that gallery, when they leave the jail, they're like, "Yo, I was just in the box with Rich, yo, he fucking took the police's handcuffs." So, you know, it helped with the reputation. And honestly, I was telling my friend, I didn't have a visit like six months, I had no human contact. Nobody touched me. I just wanted to be touched. This was some type of be human contact, whether it be fissures and kicks or whatever, just kick me some type of human contact. They gave it to you. They gave it to me. They gave it to me. They gave it to me. They gave it to me. They gave it to me. I can't ridden up for the same thing over and over. The assault weapons, dogs. So it's all only, it's got the point, man. Sometimes you don't even remember. - You blend together. Okay, so you're three or four years in to the original three to nine for the shooting and the assault at Rikers when you catch this assault on a CO for the stabbing. What was that sentence? - Everything ended up happening currently to 12 to 36. Everything ended up to 12 to 36. - Got it. So now you have to do a minimum 12. - Minimum 12 before you could see the parole board. - You've got to see the parole board. I went to four parole boards. - You know, the first three was just, just for show. - It's a joke. - It's a joke. Sit down and tell us about your case. All right, we don't get no questions. - That's it, that's just that, that. - The second time, the second time I went in there, they said, all right, tell us what happened. I told them what happened. And then they was like, oh, let's talk about this new charge. So you're telling me that while you were doing time for killing somebody, you called another case for trying to kill somebody else. I was like, not like that, but no more questions. - I know it's down two years. - I know how it sounds. You had to be there. You had to be there, and you know what, it's like, you can't even, you can't even like, spaz out because they hold your life in their hands, you know what? And every time I got hit, I hit with two years. Like, back then we called it the Doose Club. But, you know, two years, a long fucking time. Like, all right, I'm not gonna give you another chance to get out for another two years. Come back to see me in two years. And they did that to me four times. That's why I did the 18 years. I did six years and just pro-hit. After my time was done. - So the seven years that you spent in solitary confinement is crazy. I've done this podcast for quite a while now. I've talked to a lot of people that have done really hard time. But I've never heard that seven years consecutively. - But I'm not unique. People on my gallery was all long-termers. I had a Doose that was in there for like 10 years. The Doose that was in there for 12 years. Yeah, one dude in his name was Shaka. And he'd been on that gallery for 15 years. And he was a notorious shit slinger. Like, he'll shit a motherfucker down. And he hears your voice and he don't like your voice. This was back then in Southport. You still had to go to the showers on the gallery. They didn't build the Supermax yet. Shaka used to be in the cell and he'll tell you, "You won't buy my son, I'm a fucking shit to you." Just because he doesn't like your voice. Because, and then when I remember one time, we was going to a wrecked pen. And that motherfucker had shit in a toothpaste that he stuffed up his ass just so that when he came into a wreckage he could shit that toothpaste back out and take that shit out toothpaste and shit the motherfucker down next to him. That's how sick he was. He had me on house arrest of 45 fucking days. I refused two visits because he told me that if I won't buy a cell he's gonna shit again. Right. I don't look at shit down. I can't think of anything worse. Though, bro, and I'd rather be stabbed. It's that the shit is not like fresh shit. It's like fermented, we all kept shit in our cell just in case, you know what I'm saying? Even you? I kept shit in my cell, I slung shit before. You keep it in a cup? I used to take the style full cup from the mess. When you're in the box, you're not allowed to keep food in your cell, right? So they bring in your milk in a style full cup and you get two cups. After you drink it, you have to make sure the cups stay inside the tray when you return the tray back, right? So what I used to do is on days that we have mashed potatoes and whatever, I don't eat the mashed potatoes, which is, I hate mashed potatoes anyway. I don't eat the mashed potatoes, I take the style full cup, I break it in half, I stick in the mashed potato thing, so it looks like there's two cups in there and I keep the other cup myself, right? Yeah. And I return the tray, bring the tray back, and then with that cup, like, eventually, you can't do it all in one shot. You have to like slowly get like, I need to get a bag to seal it or whatever. So you put shit, piss, milk, you stir it up until it's like a shake and then you tie it up, and you know it's ready when the style full cup starts leaning at a till, 'cause the chemical in there is like, mashing with the chemical compound of style full. The style full cup is leaning like this, and you know you ready to go as putrid. And so you've got that as a weapon? As a weapon, yeah, yeah. But who are you gonna throw that on besides the guard? Whoever, if I asked the trustee, you know, go get a cigarette from three cell for me, and he don't, and he takes his time to do it. I'm shitin' 'em down. - So you've shit down, I'm shit man, I'm shitin' you down. You're not gonna be able to come back out. They're not gonna have you working as a trustee no more because you gotta shit it down. So if I ask you to do something and you don't do it right away, I'm shitin' you down. - That sounds, it is disgusting and crazy, but actually it is practical, because when you're locked down, you have no human contact. - I can't do nothing to it. - I mean, if there's no good, I'm in the box. He could spit in my food when he passed out the food because I've done put people, I don't feed rapils when I'm the trustee. If I find out you're a rapal, you're not eating if you're on my gallery, and I tell everybody, "You're catching by you, "sliding a piece of bread to this diaper sniper, "all your motherfuckers going on Ramadan." Nobody's eating. So, that was my mindset. - Right, so the trustee has people's lives in their hands 'cause they have the power to deliver the food. So you have to have a way to keep a trustee honest. - Yeah. - One of them is with a shit cup. - Yeah, but the shit cup. 'Cause if he gets shit down, they're gonna take his job from him. 'Cause motherfuckers don't respect you if you get shit down. I never got shit down. How's the trustee, you know what I mean? But, did you ever get shit down? - Yeah. - Is that almost like getting your butt taken? - No, no. - You can't control that. You're not, you don't get soft, 'cause you get shit down. I was just looking, I never got shit down. It's like getting shit on by a bird. - Yeah, yeah, it's just happening. - It happens. He's behind his cell. He shit you down. There's nothing you can do about it, you know? That's what Africa, a shabaga was so feared. Like, he'll put shit in his mouth just to shit you down and he don't get the fuck. - He also, like I said, he had your house arrested. I refuse two visits, but house on that gallery. 'Cause I didn't wanna get shit it down. - Oh, my stomach has never been wretching. - But what? - Blink it has right now. And at one time, we, I got sent to the shit gallery, right? - Well, that's a gallery in Southport that they send all the shistlingers to where the police, when they, everybody behind glass. - Right. So, there's no more bars or gates. You're behind fiberglass, shield, and the holes is this way, so you can come in, but you can't spray nothing out, you know? And when they do their rounds, but count time, they have the full hazmat suit arm with the flash strike. You can hear the breathing, 'cause there's a microphone. You'd be like, "Oh, Darth Vader's coming, " Darth Vader's coming, you know?" But I was, I was on the sick reality as, two of my close, close friends was next door to me. Like, we're really, really cool. Like, we know each other for over 10 years, right? So, one thing, when you're cool with somebody, you never want to embarrass them, especially on the gallery, when everybody's listening. So, but these two motherfuckers, they kept talking and talking and talking, it's like one in the morning and they're still fucking talking. And I'm right in between them, and we're behind glass, so you have to yell into the hole. So, I feel like they're talking right in front of me here, but they're my close, close friends. For me, the time, yo, it's getting late, yo, yo, Tony Dell, I don't want to embarrass them in front of the population of other people, our peers or whatever. So, let's see, you know what, I know what I'm gonna do. I've got a magazine now, went to the corner of the gate, I took my shit cup out, and I said, "Fuck it, "I gotta take one for the team, "I took the toilet paper, stuck in my nose, "put the shit under the magazine, "and just started fanning it from the gate "from where they was at, and I kept going back and forth, "cause there's both at the end of their cells, talking to each other, and I'm just over there fanning and fanning, and they see my hair blue, and I was like, "Yo, y'all think somebody bust their cup?" Oh, shit, yo, that's just thing. Yo, son, I'ma talk to you tomorrow. Fuck that, yo, yeah, yo, I smell that shit too. I'll be back with my son. I'm gonna try and have that laugh out loud, but. Okay, oh, shit. But then, I think someone bust their cup. Yeah, and I'm like, it was the sacrifice I had for me, 'cause I wanted to sleep, you know, 'cause records matter, when you're in the box, it calls for a wreck at like 6 a.m. in the morning, 'cause we're like special, one-on-one, S-quads, 'cause we're in the ship, just in the gallery. So it's so ubiquitous, meaning it's so, it's such a normal practice, shitsling, and that they built an entire gallery just for punishment, just to take care of that problem. In fact, in 1997, they changed the laws. Now, you could get a new case. When we was doing it, you wasn't getting new charges. You get new case for, throw shit. There's one guy got 15 of life for throwing shit out of God. In '97, they made an example out of him. Yeah, everybody was doing it, right? I've seen a nun get shit thrown on him in the box, on her in the box, you know, so they had to change the laws to protect staff that's working there, 'cause it's really disgusting. It's a very vile thing to do. Yeah, so if that happens to say you're an inmate, you get shit, do you have to go get like a vaccine or anything like that? Like, do they send you to medical? They send you hospital, yeah, they send to medical, right? 'Cause it's human waste. Yeah. And back then, HIV was looked at differently at it is now. So I'm talking about this in the mid '90s, where like everybody's scared of death of HIV and, you know, "Oh, I can't sit at this table next to this guy. It's got an age, you know what I'm saying?" Let's work the AIDS world in the hospital when I was in things and so forth. I got to learn a lot about the disease and stuff like that. So like, the common fears that we have is like so far from the truth. But, you know, when you think about human waste of blood, yeah, definitely, definitely, just think about your seriously. You work in the AIDS war, that's fascinating. So you saw people kind of like wasting a web. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of my friends, you know, dope shooters. dope shooters. Harlan was really big back in the '80s and '70s. So a lot of the old guys that caught AIDS, then AIDS and HIV is not an instant death thing. Like once it turns to a full blown AIDS, then they go to the AIDS war, you know? And they get special privileges. And I worked up there because I had a few friends that was up there as well. And you get special perks. Like every day they used to get the Apple carrot juice freshly made, 'cause I used to make it for them. So I get to get it too. And if you have population, you have no, you have no, if you have another job, you don't have access to a blender, to a juice or whatever. So I worked up there and, you know, and it was, and I did it for other reasons as well. Can't smoke in the hospital. I used to bring cigarettes up, they sell cigarettes. Doing seven years in those kind of conditions, it's unimaginable to an ordinary person. Did you feel like, like how did you survive that? Did you, it became normal, obviously, at a certain point. Right, I don't know what I'm missing. I mean, you see in the streets, you've seen the yard, the yard's a lot better in prison than doing seven years in the shit, you know. I gotta date, I'm gonna be back out there. I'm gonna be back out there. So you're looking at your date still, you're like, I'm getting out in 18. You're not gonna hold nothing, you're not gonna dangle, no carrot in front of me to make me do what I do, not wanna do. That was my mentality. Okay, whatever, I got a date. I got a date. You can't tell me I have to go to school. You can't tell me I have to learn how to be a plumber. You can't tell me I have to go to a small engine class. Well, I'm not gonna do nothing. So that was my defiance. It's like a disorder. Was it defiance? That is, it is. It is defiance. It is defiance. I was very defiant on anybody that was like people of authority. So you weren't programming even on your. Wasn't. Okay. They hit me, they hit me on the board twice for that. They said, you didn't even, how is it? And my stupid big mouth got me hit at the third time. They said, how is it that you've been in prison for 16 years and you have not finished no programs at all? And I said, if you have my record in front of you, you can see I was in a box for seven years. And what time do I have to go to programs? All right. That was the end of that program. Two years? No, no, no, no. Two years, that's two years. And I was sitting there as I'm leaving. I'm like, oh my God, what did I just say? Like, I know they know, but why did I just open up the envelope and push in their face again, you know? You go in with nine years on your mind and now it's 18 years. Like, I'm gonna max out, but now I'm 18. I can do that. Well, there wasn't 18. It wasn't 18, it ended up 12 to 36, 36, my max. And you, and you had accepted you were gonna max out? No, I was hoping somebody killed me. So I don't have to finish this bit. In 36 years, there's a lot different from nine years. Of course. Like, I'm no longer saying, you know, fuck that. I got a date, date is from where you're 51. So you gave up. I was like, you know what? It's ironic because if I would have maxed out on that bid, I would have came out next year. That's fucking crazy. If I would have maxed out on that bid, I would have came out next year. Because you went in in '92, that's almost 36 years. 36 plus 92 is what? It's 30, 92, 20, 28, it's 36 years from 1992. Yeah. Yeah, so I would end up doing this in 36 years. 'Cause I know I maxed out when I'm 51. I knew that. Although 52, I know I maxed out when I was 52, 'cause that's why I was doing the math in my head. So when you were doing that whole shot, do they give you a date? Like a. No, they told me, okay, after 12 years, you'll go to the pro board. But I'm saying, do they give you a release date from the box? Like when you go into the hole, do they tell you-- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yours was seven? No. No. A year here, a year. And then, time I bunky up at one time. I got an extra year. What was that about? Well, at first, they put into the experiment with the no human contact box. That's why you put the shower in there. That's why you put the red pen in there. And they made a double bunk. So you have at least some human contact, right? Which is bunky. I went in there and said, I'm not going in the cell with another man. I don't give a fuck. He said, "Yo, I will let you pick your bunky." I don't care who you let me pick. I'm not going in there. I wouldn't go in there with your mother. I can't be 24 hours with anybody, anybody. I don't care who it is. With your mother, your sister, nobody. I don't care if it's a female. You're not going to put me locked me in the cell with somebody. There's like, you have no choice. I have no choice. I got you. I got you. Well, in my cell, and I told my bunkie, I said, "Yo, don't take this the wrong way. Don't take it the wrong way. I don't be with you." Not a bully, but I got to do what I got to do. I just beat the shit out of him. I'm going to fucking rip the sheet up, tie them up, put them under the bed. When they came from the count, there's a bunch here under the fucking bed. I told you what I was going to do. Never double bunk again, but it gave me three years for that. It gave me three years solitary for that. All right, okay. Did you let them know you're going to get tied up, but I'm not going to play with your booty. No. Don't worry. I'm not a booty, man, so they didn't expect that. But I told them, I told them straight up. I told them I told you what I was going to do, and you still put me in here. I told you I'm not built to be with anybody. Okay, so now you got a three-year stretch. I was by myself. Right. I'm by myself. Right. That's the thing. Acting wild and using violence, sometimes gets you what you want. It honestly does. So goddamn, you got another three years. What happened after that? Oh, so I wasn't there for, you know, assaulting staff. So you know, some staff members did not like me. In fact, they don't despise me. So when you're in the box, you get to change your books once a month. You only have five books in your cell, right? So the books that's in your property, they put in a book card. So every month you get to change your books, right? So that day, I was having to change my book, and I just got this book in the mail, what was the name of it? I forgot the name of it. It was a book that I ordered. It was a comic book, in fact. It was a graphic novel. Excellent, infertile. I've been wanting to read that for a long time. So when you book our game, I'll show you. Yeah, I want to change this book for that book. I said, it's a comic book. He said, you know, comic book in here. I said, I seen them put it in there when they, 'cause when they come in your mail, they open it in front of you. And then they said, oh, you got a book, we're gonna put it in your book cart. So I said, I just got this book, maybe a week ago, I seen them put it in there. He's like, it's not in there. And he tried to close my flap. I stuck my hand out and I held my flap open. These cameras in front of myself, because I was like a special case. So I put my hand out in front of the flap. The only way he could close the family is he could break my hand. You know they're not allowed to do that. I'm not a threat right now. I just got my hand out there. So he said, you move your hand from the flap. I said, no, find my fucking book. He said, I'm giving you a direct order, no, no, I can't. I need my book, I need my book. My family's paying for that book, I need my book. They call it Sergeant. Sergeant, okay, Mr. Inky, put your hand. No, not until you find my book. I don't care if you go to the bookstore and buy it, but I need my book. Check my records. I got that book last week. Lost very short. I held out for nine hours. Nine hours like this. Shift change and everything. It's like a protest. It's like a protest. It's like a sign of protest. I'm going to be violent. But I held my hand out there. He's held that for nine hours. Afterwards, they came and said, they're not, they don't have your book. They might have lost it. You should just put your hand back in. They had an officer sitting in front of myself. Waiting for me to put my hand in so they could close the flat. He was not disrupted at the whole operation. Mel is not getting passed out. The whole gallery is blocked off. The everything stops. Because our image yelling like. No, they all support, but I bug out. Everybody supports it. You know, it's us against them. Once I do that, all operation stops. That's why they gave me six months for that. I'll just stick my hand out. So they gave you another six months here. Another six months. But it was a sign of protest. I didn't hurt nobody. I just kept my hand out there. No, no, no, find my book. Find my book. Find my. I was getting crammed to my shoulder. I was like nine hours, you're hungry. I'm hungry. I'm hungry the day you feed me. I'm scared to go take a piss. I take my hand off, to go to the bathroom. They're going to fucking slam my foot slot. So I'm over there. I'm telling myself, if I have to pee and I can hold. I'm just pee on the floor. But I was holding it. But nine hours I gave up, I said, "Fucking." God. I said, "I have my phone." You're pride, dude. I said, "I have my phone." Then they came and fed the gallery. Yeah. And then afterwards, the next morning, they. 999. M-A-A-N-N-F-A-O-N-F-O-Z-O-Septemberg-A-Please. Yes. You have a head-by-charge, a formally charged. They gave me an. (LAUGHTER) A protest thing and distributing a direct order, interfering in the smooth running of the prison, and some of the charges, you know. But that's not a. That's just a charge within the prison. Within the prison? Yeah. Yeah, within the prison. And they gave me six months of it. Okay. After that, did you get out, or did you have to do more? You know, once you're in there, it's like. If you come out of the box and you don't know the amount, I'm just already used to it. So, still rebellious. But after a while, you get tired, you know. It's not about somebody, and I want to get regular visits, and stuff like that, you know. So, in the box, you don't get regular visits. You get no contact visits. Mm-hmm. So, I want to get regular visits again. So, I said, "You know what? I'm just chill." Let them send me back to GP. So, I'll get my visits back. So, seven years, you walked out of the hole. Yeah. So, you hadn't. You hadn't touched anything. I wasn't shaped, though. Because I stayed working out. Yeah. I had a strict, strict routine, you know. So, I was like doing thousand pushups before breakfast, a thousand pushups before lunch, thousand pushups before dinner. And you're getting, like, great sleep. Getting, like, eight hours. More than eight hours. Yeah. I wake up, wake up. Right. Because sometimes I was just miss. You know, once you're in the box, they want you at doing a standing count, so you know you're alive, right? And a lot of times you're in the box, you're like, "I'm not doing a standing count." So, you got to sleep. A standing count is when they feed you. So, if you don't stand up for the count, it's like you refuse breakfast. But you can't even refuse breakfast. You can't refuse lunch at dinner. Because if you refuse enough meals, now they say you're on a hunger strike. And now they have to weigh you and document you and everything. Right, right. Did anybody take their own lives? Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see a lot of people hanging themselves over there. I mean, during the holidays is bad, you know. Yeah. So you read a bunch? You books? Yeah. Yeah. I read so much. Right. I read so much. And now, if you tell me to read something, I'm like, no. No more. Huh. Oh, what's the ingredients on the potato chip? No more reading! Got it. So, no. No, I don't read as much. No more. So, after seven years, you hadn't touched a human being. Besides the guards, you know, putting handcuffs on you and beating you up. Yes. So, if you hadn't touched another human being in seven years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you got out to GP. Where, where, what prisoner are you at now? When I went back to GP, when I left the long term with Attica. So, you're in Attica? Oh, the Attica three times. Attica is the disment of your jail. Every time you fuck up in the lodge jail, they send you to isolation box. When you come out, they send you to Attica. You collect, like, this one of your jail. - So, you're just locked down the whole time? - No, you go to programs. - Why is it disciplinary? - 'Cause you get the worst and the worst from the whole state. All the fuckers in the States goes to Attica. 'Cause Attica has to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have to have 'Cause Attica has to Attica right, so they said that never again will they ever allow a right and Attica again. So, it's very security orientated. They used to beat people up, they had their own gang in there called the black glove gang. Every shift, they used to jump somebody just to put on the show until now, Attica, all those cops were supposed to retire because they made them all wear body cams now. Too many people was dying in Attica because, and nobody gave a fuck because Attica was the dismair jail. Anytime you assault the police in another jail, you're going to Attica, after you come out the box. So, it's California, it's New York's equivalent of like Pelican Bay, almost, this in California, that's where they sent all the shot collars, all the worst of the cops. - You could be a fucker from the street, they won't send you there. You have to be a security citizen prison to be sent to Attica, of course. - So, you go to Attica, do you remember, like, I know it sounds gay, but do you remember just like given dap to like somebody shaking somebody's hand? I mean, it must have-- - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the bin I got to the receiver room, most of the dudes I worked at the receiver room was, "Oh, ship rich, you have finally out the box." 'Cause, you know, I was dismayed as fuck. Most of everybody that's working there came from the box that I was in, and they're either her stories about me, or my aunt thinks I was in there. And they said, "Oh, ship rich, you finally out." They come back to population, so that, you know, and you know, they lost all my property within those seven years. So, I went there with no property. So, everybody was like, "Yo, Richard, you need some culture. You need some Pikachu. You got some clothes." So, they hit me with a little, uh, chain package. 'Cause they all love dudes that go against authority, so they always show me mad love. Every spot I go into, before my property even comes, they always, "You know, Richard, you need that, you need that." So, I was good, you know. - Your reputation really preceded you at this point. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - How-- so, they sent you back to Attica. - And they gave you-- they-- even, first I went to Attica, they gave me a beat down automatically, the staff. Just before I even got to the driver room, they wanted me to know that this is not syncing. We will kill you. They told me that. - Oh, shit. - Yeah, just the officers. - And this is before you'd even stab the officer? - No, after. - Oh, okay, okay. - After I came out the mark, the first time. And, uh, they told me that they killed me in there, and I didn't even get off the bus. I didn't even get into the museum room. They met me in the stairs and told me, "You know, it's hard. We don't play that shit here." - And play that shit? - And they beat you up? - Yeah, yeah. - Fuck. - But I expected it. I knew it. They hit me with so many sucker punches on my way there, anyway, while I was handcuffed, because it was against one of their staff. - Yes, you know. - But they very addictive on that. - So, just filing like a complaint, "Do any good?" - No, no, it's a joke. - But. - Can't get like a lawyer involved to get a lawsuit out of it, like, I don't know. It seems like you can-- - Which evidence? - 'Cause they don't hit you in the face, right? - Yeah, which evidence, you know? Now there's more body cam. Now they're getting caught. But, you know, you see it when they just killed that inmate in New York, you see that? That shit happens all the time. We're just hearing about it now, 'cause there's body cams. If there's no body cam, that's a regular thing. That's nothing new. The officer's jumping the inmate. That's old news. You won't even make headlines in the jail. They won't even gossip about you in jail. Oh, yeah, such a shit's got to jump by the police. It's normal. But now there's body cams. Now people have the countable. So, you know, the battle is not as bad as it was before. But, because it's a different piece. But after I went there the first time, and I played my position, like, I didn't get no altercations with none of the staff members there. And I actually got there the second time, 'cause I got an altercation with another inmate. But when they sent me back, they didn't beat me up, and they even gave me a good job. They was like, "Yo, we respect that." Last time you was here, you wasn't asshole. Even though on your call, they said you were an asshole. 'Cause I got-- whenever I get transferred, they put a red dot on my ID, on my ID, on my, on my floor card. It means asshole. It means he assaulted police, like, treating him like shit. They have their own code. Just like I do the eyebrow thing. Yeah. They got their own code for anybody that attacks them as well. Total gang. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you finally, you're back there after seven years. You're grown up a little bit. No, I haven't. No. No. Okay, wow. So, even though you could go see the board, you still in your mind, you were like, "I'm doing life, 36." I'm not going home. In my head, I'm like, "If I was sitting on a pro board, would I let you me go?" No, so, fuck it, why bother being good? I'm gonna go, "I'm gonna max out, I'm gonna see y'all whatever." Hopefully that gets some good time back, and I'll get out in 24 years instead of 36. So, my mindset was 24 years. -Okay. -Did you start programming now? -Oh, no. -Fuck. -No. -I got lucky, 'cause the last parole board was the last commissioners that was appointed by the previous Democrat. There was all Democrats on my parole board, all three of them. So they was letting everybody go. Because before when Pataki came to the office, all the ones that were appointed were Republicans. And Pataki had the rule was, like, throw away the key and forget about them. That's why I was getting hit. That's why that's how the douche club came about during the Pataki hour in New York State. Pataki was in governor back in the night. That's why he became governor of New York State. -Right. -And while he was there, he was on the intimate, implemented the 85% of the, you have to 85% of the time. And he implemented Megan's Law. And Megan's Law, I'm glad to implement this for the sex offenders. But he implemented so many tough-for-crime laws there. That's why nobody's getting out. That's why the prison population blew up. In 2000, there was, like, 70,000 inmates in New York State. There was 72 prisons. Because you've got to keep building prisons. You're not letting nobody go. But now that the administration changed, and it's more about rehabilitation, in the last 10 years, they shut down with 10 different jails. -Right. -You know? Why? Because the prison population is lower now. Now you're more about rehabilitation instead of punitive. -Okay. So you think you got out early, basically, because they became softer, not because you-- -Soft-for-crime, yeah. -Not because you changed, became a model inmate. -I didn't. I didn't. I'd be honest. And I said that in a lot of my other interviews. When I came home off my first bit, I didn't change. I mean, I wasn't actively committing crimes, but my mindset didn't change. I didn't take no programs. I didn't take no therapeutic programs to change, but to better myself. I was still the same 16-year-old knucklehead in the older body. -Right. -That finally hit puberty. Now I'm taller, stronger, smarter than I was at 16, but Dick Hart is fucked. God, I haven't seen a woman smell the woman in. -No, I'm fucking mad. -Did you get laid in there? -Yeah, of course. -Garves? -Yeah. -Oh, good for you, man. Just give us a little taste. I know your girl's here, but it was a long time ago. There's no time to go. I even met my ex-wife while I was incarcerated. I have two kids with her. -That's what I was saying. -That was-- She was like a pen pal? More than that. More than that, you know. -Did you-- -Did she have children while you were in there? -No. -But I came out. OK, got you. OK, so you go to the parole board at year 18. -Yeah. -For the fourth time. For the fourth time, were you surprised? Well, this time, I actually actively tried to do better. Like, I went in there, my shirt buttoned up this time. I didn't wear sneakers, I wore shoes, and stuff like that. And I went in there, and I just kept it real with them. I said, you know what? Did my fourth time come in here? And every time I come in at the night before, I always think about what stories to tell you guys, so you guys will give me a chance to go home. And you know what? I've been trying to think and think and think of a good story to tell you guys, and I can't. There's no good story. There's no justification for what I did. Like, I don't even care. I don't even deserve to go, man. I'll go back to myself right now, you know? 'Cause I can't even think of a reason for you to let me go. This crime is so senseless that I can't even think of a reason. So, I don't even get any more waste of time. I'm out. And then let me go. You pulled the Morgan Freeman. -No. -In Shawshank Redemption, remember that? He does that. He goes, I don't know why. I watch J.O. movies. OK. The last one I want to see is anything J.O. related. Right, so you're not going to like it. After death for it, Mr. Chase, my life. So, it was 2008. 2010. 2010, when you got released. -Yeah. -Wow. And New York has just completely changed, like-- Everybody got self-old, though. I mean, it's clean. Crime is fucking gone, basically. Chinatown is, like, gentrified. They're charging $3,000 for fucking studio part, you know, with the shower next to the toilet. And the bathtub in the kitchen? Yeah, exactly. That sounds like a prison cell. What did you do? How did you assimilate after all this time? Well, I-- because, like I said, I had a reputation. So, when I came out, a lot of people knew. A lot of people tried to help me. I was giving jobs and, like, I had a lot of help. Like, I didn't do it on my own, you know. And I was working for one of my friends in his warehouse. And from working with him, he helped me stop my own company. And I started my own company. And I was selling portal magazines to prison before they stopped allowing it. So-- Tell us about that hustle. I had no idea that. Yeah, so my friend, he did time two in the fence. And he came home. And my best friend gave him a job when he came home. And he's after this first job, he went and he ventured out. And he created this company that created sextoys from China. And he sells it here to all the big distributors. Adam and Eve, sextoys.com, they all purchased from him. He's really big. So I was working for him. And he was like, yo, you know, I know you're just like me. You're not going to want to work for somebody entire life. What do you want to do? I was like, what can I do? And I was like, you know, I was thinking about selling tapes and stuff and music and towels to people in jail. And he was like, but people already doing that. And then I was like, yeah, and I said, oh, portal magazine. And then he's like, yo, you know what I'm in this industry? So he linked me up with a distributor. And I was getting the magazines for like, 30, 30, 30. And I created my own catalog. And all my friends that was locked up, I mailed them the catalogs, just distribute these in the hotel for me. And that's how I got my company started. That's fascinating. Because you think about it. Nobody in the free world will ever read a magazine again. The only people reading magazines are people in prison. Because a lot of them still don't have access to cell phones. Even today, they don't have a money. They don't have a cell phone. You're not allowed to have a cell phone in there because they don't want you filming the staff. Of course, I'm saying they still get them in, but you have to have money. You stick it in. Yeah, you got to stick it in. And state prison is harder than in the feds. So pornos, I mean, you got like a monopoly in the market. And I was getting it straight from the distributor. Which is-- And I was getting by the-- by the pallets. I was getting by the pallets. I was selling it for like, the 10% less than the cover price. Yeah, but I was paying like, $0.10 a copy almost, you know, because I'm buying it in bulk. Right. Like, all my friends that wanted to help me start my business, they put up the capital and help me buy all my inventory. So I could start my company. And I paid them back. I paid them all back. So you had like-- You had a warehouse? I had a warehouse filled with porno magazines. I know I started in my basement. I grew my basement. I grew my living area. And then I rented a warehouse. I rented a warehouse. And then it's-- So you would have pallets and pallets filled with porno magazines. I had my workers sort out. And then I used to get the orders from prison. And then started in New York State. Then I went to New Jersey. Then went to Nevada, then California. And then it was good. How much started to catch you off? How much were you paying per magazine? And then what was your price? What were you selling? I was only 10% off the cover price. And I'm probably buying it for like a nickel, 10% at the time. But then-- But what was the cover price? $0.99, $0.99, $0.95, $0.99. Your profits are insane. How many? How many could you ship? but I mean, they order. I mean, they order. But how many orders was like $1,5? No. And you legally, do you have to contact the president? I contacted the president. I applied and everything. And I got to prove. Wow. And the reason that business went out of. I stopped that is they started finding out that people was putting drugs on paper and a magazine, the paper planes and stuff like that. So they stopped all magazines, unless it came from there. And then they started giving people tablets. So now I have tablets and stuff like that. So can it make. So look at porcelain tablets. Can they access the internet? They can't access the internet, but we use that flashcards. Oh, right. Yeah, poor. But there's a world, there's a way, you know? Yeah, but that K-2. That K-2 fucked everything up. They fucked everything up. That K-2 fucked that whole business up because K-2 is on paper. Yeah. So they stopped all that. Right. What year was that that kind of. You kind of wound that business down? Well, it's funny, because once that business fell down, that's when I got found to be an actor. Yes, that's right. People don't know that you then became. You got into show business. Yeah, the show business. What year was that? I would say 2014. How did you get on? Tell us that. So I feel my friends that is in the game, somebody contact them and say, "Hey, you want to invest in this movie and stuff like that, right?" We're starting to film this Kickstarter. And, you know, my boys, they like to invest. They say, "Yeah, sure." They say, "By the way, we need some tough-looking Chinese dudes to do a scene over there. Do you know anybody?" They're like, "We do. They called me up. They read you and come down. They'd film a movie there." I said, "Yeah, yeah. I actually do." He said, "It's nothing special. You're just going to be there just to be there." I said, "No problem. I'm going." So they gave me the address. It was in Staten Island. So I went there. It was in the shipyard. There's filming some kings to see there. So I got there no early. So I'm sitting there. I'm still smoking cigarettes at the time. I'm sitting there smoking cigarettes. My own business, waiting for my boy to get there to introduce me, to bring me in or whatever. So this old guy walks out to me and says, "I'm sorry, but you know what? They're filming over here and stuff like that." And now, I'm dressed in tank top, like all gangs to look in and shit like that jewelry everywhere. Like, I'm still a bit nice now. I'm like, "Yeah, don't worry about it. I belong here." He's like, "Oh, but I said, don't worry about it. I belong here. I'm invited." So I shook him off. He goes back and then this big dude comes over. And I told him, bro, before you start talking, I'm gonna tell you the same thing I told that old man. I belong here, I'm waiting for a friend. He says, no. That old man you told me, it's a director. He said, you heard of Martin Scorsese? That, he was a big director. But he was like, he just wants to talk to you. I said, hi, I went in there. He says, yo, when you get by, I said, no, no, I'm sorry, I apologize. I didn't know. I thought you was just trying to kick me out, because I belong. He said, no, but this character I have, yo, it's like, you came right out of my imagination for this gangster role. He said, yo, do you have any experience acting? I said, yeah, dude. He said, well, I saw it was in the play. He was like, off Broadway, Broadway. I said, no, I was p-dependent with fifth grade. That shit had him rolling. He started cracking. Now, he said, I like you. He said, just be organic or whatever. 'Cause it was just a kickstarter. They just told me what to do. And there was an agent there, a manager there. And that's how I got found. That's how I got picked. And then-- You got wrapped, you got an agent. And then-- And then they started sending me out on auditions. And they said, hey, we're gonna never have no experience acting. We're gonna pay for your acting classes. And then we'll start sending you out on auditions. But before I start, the acting classes, they sent me out on a few auditions, and I booked my first three. So there's like, whatever you're doing is organic and tough. Forget about the acting lessons. Yeah. 'Cause I don't look like the prototypical Asian American actor that talked to those lawyers. Right. I look like-- Somebody went across the street when you say, hey, yeah. Ciao young fat. If you-- Oh, that's my idol. We didn't have enough time in the whole, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. That's almost unheard of just booking three in a row or getting picked up like that. That's like movie-- that's the stuff of like old school movie legends. Like Matthew McConaughey's at a bar going to law school in Texas in Austin. And there's a director there filming a movie turned out to be, oh, I'm sorry, I can't remember the name of the movie now. Yeah, all right. All right, all right. Whatever movie that is. Yeah. Help me out. Anyways, Richard Linklater was a director. He goes, you know, look, man, you want to be in a movie I'm filming? And then, you know, the rest is history. Yeah. So that kind of happened to you in a way. So, how successful were you at that? Were you-- I was very fortunate. Did you keep booking more-- Yeah. I kept booking. I kind of-- I was on network TV. Mysteries of Laura with Debra Messing. Okay. I was recurring character on there. I booked the lead antagonist on this movie called Midnight Driver, that was my first movie. I was the lead bad guy. And then I was booked by a book snakehead, which, you know, Sun King, from the Fast and Furious, I played his brother and big, big role there. Yeah. And then I booked Killer Man with Liam Homesworth and we was money launders, we're a team then. No, I was lucky. I was in the right place at the right time. I got some big, big role. So you were like making a living as an actor? Yeah. Still getting rid of jewels from you know, so yeah. I was fortunate. And there are people that have more experience and probably more talented. But I had the look. Yeah. And you enjoyed it? I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. And then something happened. Yeah. What year was that? 2016. 2016. Okay. And you're off paper, by the way. I'm off paper. Okay. I'm not on parole. I'm off paper. I've been on TV. I just finished film on one movie. You know. I was out. And you, before we get into like the finale here, had you done any work on yourself and you've been to therapy? Had you, you know, when, whenever after you got out, had you this time? Yeah. No, I'm talking about after you got out. Did you maybe take it any time? Maybe take it any time. It's been class the first time. Okay. I figured it. Yeah. You took it. Okay. They're all right for a ride. Yeah. You didn't do any like ayahuasca. Okay. Got it. And then, did you go, by the way, did you see your parents when you got out? Like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They've been so supportive of me. Did you, did they forgive you, did they have a kind of like a feeling moment? At the end of the day, I'm still there, baby. Right. You know, so parents can always forgive their child no matter what, you know, die of very understanding parents. You know, they forgive me and, you know, to this day, I still work hard to try to make them proud. That they wanted my main motivators. So I want to make them proud because they're not going to be here forever. I want to make them proud for what's in their life, you know. Right. I remember how proud they was when they came to my movie for me when I went to, when I was walking the red carpet and invited them with me and we took pictures and the people were taking pictures of us on the red carpet. You know, I think at that moment, I made them so super proud. But then I fucking took one step forward until like three steps back and I couldn't control my anger. And I punched somebody when I shouldn't have. Okay, yeah. And it's so unfortunate because things were going so great. So great. And it's just like a dream come true. What happened on that day? It's in 2016. 2016. Okay. Do you remember the date? Yeah, I remember. It was August. August. In the beginning of August, you know. I was at a friend's birthday party. She had booked out the whole, whole place and it's at a stakeout. Stakehouse. And we went all drunk. We went all drunk. And at the end of the night, the person I was with was arguing in the street. And the guy walked by and he kind of brushed up against her. And then, so you were arguing with somebody? I was arguing with my ex-fiancé at the time. Okay. Which, when I walked, when she brushed up against her, I was like, she was like, she made it and I looked like, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, "Yo, my man, you can't watch where you're going." Like you walk right in between us. Again, I don't want to villainize the victim because he has such, such serious injuries behind this. I'm so regretful of this, right? He made a gesture I didn't like. Did you know him? No. Oh, God. No. It was a gesture that was made. I don't know if it was intentional or whatever. You know, I'm Chinese, you know. It takes shit like the very sensitive and I stuffed them and I punched them. I punched them one time and I walked away. I didn't yell at them or whatever. But the worst of the worst happened. I punched them when he got knocked out, fell down, cracked his head open, went blind, went brain dead, type of thing. So again, I'm in hindsight, like, I regret that so much because, you know, he was not in that life. Okay. You had to add a tool. Oh, what are you kidding me? Like I said, I do not want to villainize the victim. He was both in the wrong place at the wrong time. He is not in that lifestyle where he deserved to get punched in the street and left on the street. He deserved that. No matter what he did, no matter how offended I felt like it was, nobody deserves that on the human level. So yeah, it's something I regret, but it's hard. Yeah. That's why I'm right now. Anytime I get a chance to, I always volunteer and participate in traumatic brain injury, research and stuff like that. If I'm going tomorrow, I'm going to near Presbyterian. They do research for traumatic brain injury and we're going to volunteer. So hopefully I can give back something, you know what I'm saying? But the Lord prevents me from reaching out to them or even apologizing to them or anything. But I hope through my actions, if they see that I didn't forget what I did, I'm still trying to tone. Nothing I could do can't have a tone for that, but I'm still going to try. It seems like you feel worse about that than when you shot the kid. I do. I do actually do because both in their lifestyle is either you or me, but this is different. So this is totally different, you know? So they arrested you? Do they arrest you on the spot? No, no, no. Like, the rest of me like two weeks later when I was in the hospital because the bone came out of my head. Oh my god. I hit him so hard that the bone came out of my head. I was in the hospital for two weeks and I needed emergency surgery. I was going to lose my hand. Right. I caught osteomalitis, infection of bone. Right. When they arrested me, I went to the tombs and from the tomb, they sent me to Bellevue hospital because they sent me to the emergency surgery because I was going to lose my hand. And then while I was at Bellevue hospital, I got bailed out in the middle of surgery and then when I came out of surgery, they moved me to the civilian wing and I stayed there for two months. I couldn't come back out. Even though I was bailed out, I had to stay in the hospital because they had a pick line from my heart because I had the infection in the bone. Yeah. Because the bone was exposed to the air. Yeah, if we had somebody on here one time that talked about that, he was in prison when that happened. And yeah, he almost lost his hand. Okay. So then, did they send you to, oh, you were out on bail, I guess. How's that on bail? When did you get sentenced? You took a plea deal? No. I blew it down. Wow. I took it to the box. I took it all the way through. Well, there you were charged with assault two. Assault two. The max was seven years. Why did you think you could beat him? My cop out was seven years. They had me on camera. It was a show five win for them. So why did you take it? That's what I'm like. The guilty is seven years. If I take it as trial, if maybe they could hear the reason that happened, maybe I get less than seven. I know I was going to get found guilty. Right. No. I know I was going to get found guilty because I did it. I punched him. I wasn't trying to say I didn't punch him. They charged me with assault two saying I intentionally wanted to disfigure it more and crippled him for life. They said I intentionally did that, which is so far from the truth. Of course. But even if they give me a year or six months of probation to admit to that, I'm not going to admit to that. I don't care. What cop out you give me. I did not intend for that type of injury to happen. Yes, I intended to punch him. Yes, I wanted to punch him. But no, I'm not going to admit that I purposely put him in a coma. I don't care if you dismiss the case. I'm not going to pleat to that. So took a try. - Jam. Jury trial. - Jury trial, yeah. - And you blew. - I blew him. And there was all smiling at me. I thought it was good, I thought it was good. - Oh, damn. - Oh, I see them in the elevator. How you doing? I was like, "Oh, I got this, me." - It's all rocking you to sleep. - You mean to sleep? - Yeah, there was even a Dominican kid. And I seen he had a Dominican flag on his shit. On his jacket, I'm not Dominican, I'm not the Natario. But you know what, I was like, yo, yo. Natario, buddy. - Like, I even tried to act like I'm down with him. I'm like, yeah, he might be in my favor, you know what I'm saying? But-- - Well, you were shackled. They probably were worried you were gonna punch him. - No, no, but-- - That's why they were smiling at you. - Yeah. - You were going to elevate it together, you know? But-- - How long do they take to deliberate? That's how you know. If they come back too fast. - Three hours, maybe. And it's so crazy. My lawyer told me about the Jury's going to deliberate. And then he said, "Go grab lunch." So I went downstairs and I went to meet up with my boy. And I was meeting my boy. And I get a phone call from my manager, shout out for it. He said, "Yo, they just booked you for the drop in the narrow movie." - No way. - Which one? - Lucky grandma that he did for the Tribeca Film Festival. - Oh, yeah, I know. - I auditioned for it already. And I booked-- - Wow. - I didn't know I got it. And he called me and said, "Yo, they want you." I said, "Oh, great." So I was sitting there and I was talking to my boy. I was like, "Yo, yeah, they just, I got it." And then my lawyer called me and he said, "Yo, they're first to deliberate. You gotta come back to court." So I'm like, "Damn, I didn't even eat yet." - That's a fucking, I'll just go back and see what happens. I went back in there so many security. So, security everywhere. - Right. Because man offers his day. - That's how you know. - I said, I said, "I'm dead." - Jerry came in. Nobody made eye contact with me. - Everybody smiled at me every day. - We were going down. And then they said, "The jury finds you. "You'll see that, that, that, that." If I'm going to get to me every charge. - So then you went, the gaff of you up right there, of course? - Yes. - Cupier right there. And then you went and did, how long off that? - They sent to me seven years. - Yeah. - I did five and a half. - So that means you got your good time? - Oh, yeah, because this time I went in there with a different attitude. Especially after I got stabbed, I was like, "Yo, I'm too old to be going through this "to the game." So I said, "You know what? "Let me try to take a program or two." So I ended up taking the RTA. It's rehabilitation through the arts, which is an acting class in there. And they actually made a movie about it. Hollywood made a movie called RTA. - Wow. - That program. - Really? - Yeah, it was in the theaters when I first came out. - That's why I run it. - So I took that program for a year. And when you're in that program, real directors come in and teach you. And at the end of the semester, you put on a plane for the prison and for the people in the streets. They come and watch the plane. So I was, I did 12 argument. I was a racist antagonist during the month of me. And I was in that program and I went to college. I signed up for college. I took a few college courses while I was in there. And I was supposed to do six years off of the seven. So it took six months off for a positive program. And I got out in five and a half years. - Wow. So what was, obviously, did they remember you? What prisons were you at? Were you at tough prisons still? - This time, I didn't go to as many prisons as last time. This time, I only went to three. - Okay. So did you have respect from what you had done previously? - Yeah, 'cause I got stabbed into my room. I got stabbed into my room. Okay, tell us what happened with that. Why did you, if you were programming to stand out to people? - I was, I just came back up state. I wasn't freshen my bed. And it was with over the phone. The sputes over the phone. - That happens. - No, and the words was exchanged and I got rocked to sleep again. No, I didn't even want to be with you. It was good, it was good. I was in the muscle eating and they came up. Behind me, it stabbed me in my face and, like, three dudes jumped on top of me as a safety so I couldn't chase the shooter. But, again, I'm neutral. OMG, what made me gay? So, a lot of other neutral dudes seen me getting jumped. They all jumped in. So it became a full-fledged riot. They had to fire shots into the, that's all and everything, just to stop it. And then when they locked down the jail, once they reopened the jail back up, another stabbing happened over this. So this was a 30 day riot that happened over me getting stabbed. So these shit meets with another jail behind that. So being that, 'cause I was the, that was just, spark a point when I got stabbed, you know? So I went to the next jail, and once I went to the next jail, I'm bringing that beef over there. So the people I had beefed with over here, that didn't know yet. I popped them in when I got that jail. - Right. - You know, getting kicked out of that jail. When they went down to this jail that had the programming. - Right. - So that's when I started programming and trying to change my life around. After I got stabbed. - That's wild. - So you got hit just above the eye. - Right, look, I went to the outside hospital. You can see the, you can see it was like this. My shit was open, blood everywhere. - Were you able to fight back after that? - I was fighting back, 'cause I didn't know how bad I was stabbed. I just thought I got punched. I didn't even know I got stabbed until afterwards. 'Cause you know, you're just feeling the first thing and then somebody else hit me from here to prevent me from chasing the shooter. That's how I got stabbed once. So, at that time, I didn't even get the chance to get the shooter back, you know? I didn't even know who it was, but you know how I finally got to find out who it was. So, I remember I said, we all locked down, the dude that they, 'cause everything's on camera, this camera's in the mess hall. So, the dude that got caught for stabbing me called me and has a witness. So, I did the right thing. I did what everybody was supposed to do when you get in that lifestyle. When I went in there, the witness said, do you know who stabbed you? No, show me a picture of the dude that stabbed. Is this the dude that stabbed you? I don't recognize it. That's why he knows I'm gonna stand up, dude. That's why he called me into his witness, you know? I don't recognize him, but I wanted to see what happens. So, I said, if you have a video of the riot, maybe I'd be able to identify him and you showed me the video. So, he said, we got a video. Show me the video and I seen the whole thing, how it unfolded, how the dude came from behind me and stabbed me, how these dude jumped on me and how my boys jumped over the table over there and jumped into it. So, he showed me the whole thing. He said, so do you recognize the guy yet? I said, I still don't, I'm sorry. - And are there that many people at El Maira to where it's like a big ass high school? You just don't know, there's people you just don't know. Is that plausible? Or did you know the guy? - I'm awesome, big. - Did you know the guy? I don't know the guy. But we have words, we spoke, but I see people all the time. I have words with people all the time. I don't recognize the face. Like, I felt like I wasn't unbeatable. So, I didn't care about it. I didn't even ever go to brush them off. I didn't take it as a threat. But El Maira's huge, there's eye block. So, you know, A-black, B-black, C-black, D-black, all the way to eye-black, you know what I'm saying? So, you can imagine how big that jail is. - A lot of motherfuckers, a lot of fuckers, a lot of fuckers. - So, did he get popped for that? - He did, he did. It was on camera. - Okay. - They still found the guilty. They just said that I didn't recognize him. But he could use that, use my testimony for his appeal, because I said he didn't do it. - Isn't that like, she had that comfortable circle? Like, you were on the other end, finally, of getting scared. - Oh, no, I got ridden up too. I got ridden up too, 'cause I had a raise in my hand, and I even cut the person that was helping me by accident, 'cause I couldn't see what was going on. I was just swinging wildly. - Wow. - You know? - So. - She got ridden up for that, and then you could go to the ship. - And then they said it wasn't me either. The, the, the, the, the, the enemy. - Yeah. - Then I cut. They testified for me. - Yeah. - And they didn't get you on camera with the razor? - No. - No, wow. - But, they rolled me up for it. - Did you, and you got shot to a different prison? And you didn't, you didn't forgive. - And forgive. - You kicked some shit off there. - Then I got there, I went through y'all, I once they took me off quarantine, 'cause they put you on quarantine for us before the release of the jail. They actually, we have any beams. There's a lot, no enemies, no, no, no, no, no enemies. But I know that gang is deep in every jail. - Who, what gang was it? - Hi friends, they're now as well, you know? And it's so ironic that the, the, the people that stand me, I end up being in another jail with their GF, and I had an altercation with the police, and he held me down. Like, he's the lead of that whole crew. - What's the, what's the, what's the, - It is a blood crew. - It was a blood crew. - Okay, yeah, it was a blood crew. - I didn't know if it was like Latin. - King, it was a blood guy. - No, no, no, no, no. - Okay. - But the head of that crew actually held me down later on when the police were trying to jump me, and he held me down. - What happened there? - We was coming back from a yard, and the police thought that somebody passed something off to me. No way I passed nothing off to me, but I already had something on me. So he said get on the wall. I know I'm dirty. Get on the wall. What? What? It was just a fight because I'm getting on the wall. This came all over here. I didn't do nothing wrong, I'm getting on the wall. So pulled the pin, the riot squad came, said I'd be choosing to get on the wall. And Reem, I said it made Reem, Reem, Reem. - Reem. - Reem said, yo, if you didn't get on the wall, none of us is getting on the wall. No way, yeah, yeah, yeah, not gonna jump him. Yeah, not gonna jump him. Nah, nah, nah, nah. So everybody stopped. Everybody stopped because he used that. Everybody had to always stop. And they had to pull the pin, possible riot situation, Mexican standoff, stuff like that. And they said, yo, nothing's going on. Just let the man go back into his cell. Check the cameras, check the cameras. Search him in his cell. But, yo, if you didn't see nothing, you don't want to go on the wall, you're not getting on the wall. So that's going to be back to myself. Search myself anyway. But by then, the ship was gone. - What'd you have on it? - No reason. - Okay, no reason. - So you got rid of it on your walk back to the cell? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - That's some fucking G-shit. - You guys were like surrounded the police. - Mexican standoff. We always outnumber the police. - Of course. - If there's unity, that's why the ship is all out. The ship is out. - Right. - Keep us separated, you know? But I didn't ask. I asked him to stop, he stopped on his own, you know? 'Cause he was cool with one of my friends, you know? But by that time, the people with me and them already, it was already squat. I got back already, they got back already. It was done. This was months later. And I didn't even know him, and he didn't know me, but he was introduced by our mutual friend, but he didn't know that his homie stabbed me before. I mean, he probably knew, I don't know if he knew what. - Well, thank God you didn't get caught with that, 'cause then they got you out to a lower yard. And that's where you programmed to do the acting, and then you got the acting thing, yeah. - Wow. - And then did you feel yourself, like, obviously you felt your age and your maturity, or like, yeah, I don't want to like bang like I'm 16 again, you know? - Yeah, you might have said you could do it, but your body is just like, oh my God. - Yeah, I'm tired. - I'm tired. - I'm tired. I walked around the jake of javasend, the other day, for an hour and some change. I'm like, where's the seat? - Yeah, that's the seat strap of the sit down, bro. - Yeah, I know what we're gonna be here. - Yeah, so as you can't lie to your body, you can lie to yourself, you can lie to your body. - Did you lose your agent, or did you retain what you were down, you retain your-- - He's still with me. - Okay, so you got out what year? - About two years ago, 2024. Wait, 20, 20, 20, 24, I got out. - So are you still on paper? - Yeah, okay. - I got off paper, I had to be pulled one more time, then I got off paper, but they let me out two days before my birthday. - Nice. - So every day that I celebrate my birthday, I celebrate coming out as well. - Right, has that affected your acting career at all? - I mean, obviously somewhat, right? - I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you don't know. - They're not gonna tell you, sometimes they might be interested in you, but then they look at your past and they go, you know what I'm like? - Right. - Oh man, they don't know who I am. They just know what they read on paper. - Was that in the press? - Yeah, well, I was all the newspaper. Like, after I was on bail, I finished two more movies while I was on bail. And the directors, you know, you'd be friend the directors and they always told me, they said, yo, you know, when we heard you was on projects, we was all like a little hesitant, 'cause you know, the article was about you, but bro, you know, you're like a fucking teddy bear. - Yeah, I know, it's great. - And it's so great because even though they know, I been a term that I fucked up, I shouldn't have promised to do, but they still kept me on the job. We did the movie, they came to visit me while I was in jail, and they still sent me shout outs when the movies hit the theaters and stuff. And they kept me in the poster and the screens and everything. You know, so you know. - Did that keep hope alive for you? Did that keep you going? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. It made me feel like, you know, when I come back out, I still have a chance to pursue this, you know? And it's, it's not gonna be easy, you know? Like, yeah, people have been in this industry for like 10, 20 years before they even book anything, so there's nothing that's promised here, like this, if it's your time, it's your time. - Yeah. - You know, like life. - But it does sound like you're getting work. - I'm getting more work now because I've been going on a tour, like showing people who I really am, like don't judge me more about what you read about me. - That was quite the story, dude. That was, that's an amazing life story. I don't, after these podcasts, where I hear these incredible stories, I don't even know what to say. I'm just like, my mind is blown. But I'm happy, I'm, yeah, I don't know. If I, you could sit down with a psychologist, right? I wonder what they would say. Like, if I was a shrink, I wish I could diagnose you because you are such a teddy bear and a cool dude. But, man, you did some fucking erratic, defiant, crazy shit, man. What's changed? Do you think you care about the future now? Like, how are you gonna, how are you gonna make sure that what happened doesn't happen again? - I got kids. - I got kids. And, you know, growing up, I remember when you first met me, you said, "Hey, where you grew up at?" And I said, "The prison?" - Yeah. - Because, I technically, I did, I did grow up in prison. Like, during my period of years, like from 16th to 34, I was in prison. So that's how I grew up. And one of the common denominators I've seen in there, for a lot of guys in there is they grew up without a father figure. And, majority. Like, now you've never had a nuclear family. I had a nuclear family, I still fucked up. But, majority is that. And, I don't want my kids to go through that. - Yeah. - If I'm in jail for the rest of my life, I'm just inviting him to follow my footsteps. - Yeah, that's big. - Sorry. Every time I think about kids, you know, I'm getting a little. - Yeah, of course, man. But I'm good. - Well, thank you so much. Let's plug, let's plug away, man. Let's get people following your story. You got on Instagram? - Yes, yes. - All right, plug that, dude. - You could follow me on the real Richie NG on Instagram. I'm gonna start my YouTube channel one day, but no time soon. But yeah, then you can also catch more Asian gang stories on Chinatown gang stories. - That's right. - And you had interviewed two of the guys over there. - Yeah, nothing but great stuff to say about you. - Oh, that's awesome. Thank you. - Yeah, they was like, "Yo, if he invited you, "you gotta go, he's the real deal. "You gotta go." 'Cause, you know, I've been a little picky on certain things. - Right. - Oh, they was like, "No, you have to disguise the real deal." - Well, you brought it today, man. - Well, thanks. - You made my job easy, dude. Follow him on Instagram. And, you know, I think you're. You told me something off-camera, but you got something exciting coming up. - Oh, yeah. - But I think we show business. I can't talk about it because I signed the script, of course. But, I love my exclusive, that's the great thing. If you look at my Instagram, you'll see what I've been currently pursuing. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very exciting stuff. So, I wish you nothing but the best. And, yeah, I hope we can get up again sometime. - Oh, man, it would be honor, it would be honor. Thank you so much, man. - Thank you, brother. Appreciate it. - All right. - Thank you guys, take care. - Peace. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)