Rick Rule Reveals Where He’s Deploying Capital Right Now & Biggest Danger Ahead!

Intro Just for the record, I am done a period of liquidity building. I hadn't anticipated that we were going to have a war in the Gulf and a war in the Gulf in addition to bidding up oil. Oil prices, with the concomitant rise in the interest rate and the nervousness it adds in the market made me decided to add some liquidity to an already very liquid account. I'm done that now. Speaker 2 Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of Triangle Investor Interviews. I'm your host, Lucia Welkovich. And before I announce my guest, just a quick reminder of a disclaimer. This intimate on my interview is another recommendation to buy or sell any shares, products or services. Always do your due diligence and consult with your financial advisor. Today we are speaking with with legendary investor, speculator, banker, founder of Rural Investment Media, Mr. Rick Rule. Rick, thank you so much for joining me again. Speaker 1 Lucien, it's always a pleasure to be invited on your show. Thank you. Speaker 2 Thank you so much, Rick. Let's start. Rick Rule Symposium update & sold-out conference I would like to hear what's going on with the organization of your conference. I'm a regular over there. I'll enjoy the conference. So do we have some new guests? Do we have some new surprises? Tell me more. Speaker 1 Well, I think we will have some surprises this year, a pleasant surprise for me. We sold out of the physical conference. We only have online seats left, which is great. That's nice. I think that the generally high level of the content continues. You will recall, Lucien, that first of all, every public company exhibitor we have there is vetted unlike any other investment conference I know of on the planet. To be an exhibitor on our floor, your shares need to be owned by the conference sponsors. Unfortunately, there's no guarantee that because I own stock, it goes up, but there is a guarantee that I know the company very well before I left them on the floor. Lucien, you might not know that we turned down more exhibitors that we accept at our conference, which is useful. I think the other thing that's useful to know about our conference is that as an attendee, it has a money back guarantee. Whether you attend live or via live stream, if you at your sole discretion believe that we haven't delivered value to you, we give you your money back. We've been doing that for 30 years now and I'm delighted to say that we've only had to refund 110th of 1%, actually a little less of the tuitions that we've charged. But that money back guarantee is your guarantee that we have confidence that our content will first of all, educate you, but perhaps more importantly, make you money. Nobody else that I know of has enough confidence in their contact content that they have an absolute money back guarantee. We've been doing that for 30 years. One important caveat, Lucien. It's important that people who attend the conference, whether they attend live or live stream, pay attention to the recordings. We give you more content over 4 days, and you could absorb over 4 days. As an example, there could be 3 or 4 breakout sessions running simultaneously. How can you attend all of them? Well, with the recordings, you can. And so it's important that you understand that you're not going to spend 4 days at the conference. You're going to spend 12 days over 12 months at the conference refreshing your memory. It's important that you know that, and probably important if you're serious about making money, that you use the lessons taught at the Rural Classroom for Free Rule classroom.com to inform your participation at the conference. Knowing what questions to ask is almost as important as asking them. Where Rick is deploying capital right now The conference is where you ask them. The classroom is where you learn what to ask and how to ask it. Speaker 2 That's a good point. Really. I wish you luck with the organization. It was so far brilliant. I don't have any double s that that that that will continue this year as well. Rick, let's start with the my questions and the questions from my followers of course. And maybe the most important question that I actually always get when I have you in the show is where is Rick Rule deploying its capital right now? What what is the best place for your capital today? We are recording this on May 20. Speaker 1 Just for the record, I am done a period of liquidity building. I hadn't anticipated that we were going to have a war in the Gulf and a war in the Gulf in addition to bidding up oil. Oil prices with the concomitant rise in the interest rate and the nervousness it adds in the market made me decided to add some liquidity to an already very liquid account. I'm done that now looking around the markets, as you know, Lucia and I buy hate and there isn't much hate in the market. So I've been taking advantage over the last. We're about to take advantage. I said I should say over the last 7 or 8 days, given declining gold and silver prices and the decline in equities in gold and silver, I have a list of takeover candidates in the gold and silver business. Not, not what I would have told you to buy a year ago, which was the biggest and the best, the Francos, the Wheaton's, the Agnico Eagles, although I still like those for people who don't own them. But I believe that the M and A cycle is going to get underway in earnest. I look as an example at the recent precipitous share price decline in Visla royalties post partially as a decline in the silver price, but also as a response to the tragic events in Sinaloa and the opportunistic takeover to 3033% premium of Visla by Elemental. That takeover was triggered by the precipitous share price decline in the Visla and the understanding by the acquirers that the share price decline was temporary. The share price declines that we're seeing in the high quality developer space and single asset producer space are also temporary, but they will allow premium priced acquisitions to take place. So I'm trying to deploy for as long as the market will allow me to do it, which is to say as long as the market stays cheap. The overlooked commodity with explosive 10-year potential (Uranium) I'm trying to deploy in companies which I believe are legitimately take over targets. Will I tell those names to your audience today while I'm bidding for them actively? No. The last thing I want is 30,000 Lucian subscribers to be competing with me in the market. Many of them are younger and more facile than I so. Speaker 2 Fair enough, Rick. Fair enough. OK, that brings me to my next question. It's all let's take a longer term approach here. What is the one market or commodity that almost nobody's paying attention to today, but that you think that has a potential to explode over the next several years? Speaker 1 A horrible pun, but uranium? The beneficiary of the Gulf conflict that nobody pays attention to is uranium. It's important to note that the Japanese nuclear fleet and the French nuclear fleet, the 3rd and 4th largest nuclear fleets in the world, were built out after the oil Arab oil embargo of 1973, when those countries became concerned about energy security. The world is concerned about energy security again, and the beneficiary is going to be nuclear power. Will this move occur in the next year? Probably not. But over the next 10 years? Absolutely. Certainly. And the political climate has changed. The nuclear industry has gone from one where as a participant I was vilified to now ironically, where they want to subsidize me. People want high quality base load power not just for AI but for their everyday needs, and the only source of reliable base load power that isn't carbon generating is nuclear. If you add on top of that that it's the only fuel with enough energy density that Japan is an example, can store enough fuel in one warehouse to keep the nation in power for five years. Japanese reactor restarts & uranium demand outlook The next decade. The unsung investment of the next decade is clearly nuclear. Now. Nuclear is not hated. When you and I first started interviewing, nuclear was hated. Uranium was an absolute no brainer. The easy money, which is the money that was made when the market despised nuclear, has been made. But the 10 year outlook for uranium not as a speculation, but rather is investment very much intact. Speaker 2 Couldn't agree more. Let's stay a bit on uranium, Rick. Are utilities locking in more uranium supply this year? And do you expect Japanese reactor restarts to accelerate meaningfully in in the near term? Speaker 1 Japanese nuclear restarts are already accelerating Which? Speaker 2 Means even more. Speaker 1 Oh yeah, absolutely. As if I and I'm going to get these numbers wrong, Lucian. I haven't studied them for a while. There's 41 or 42 reactors in Japan, and I believe 16 or 17 have been restarted. I would expect in the next two years that every reactor in Japan that isn't really truly seismically challenged, which probably means 40 of them, 40 of 41 or 42 will restart. And that means that they all need to be refueled. And that means that inventory in Japan, which has hitherto been characterized as inventory held for sale, will now be inventory held for fuel. Sovereign bond market risk I know too, and this is a bit more subtle, that a substantial amount of supply that's come on the market in the last two, 2 1/2 years has come from Japanese sources. But it hasn't been sold on the market. It's been leased, which means that the people who took the fuel have to pay back in fuel. In other words, a bunch of future demand has already been locked in in the past. That's really important to understand. Speaker 2 Yeah, I have few more commodities that I would like to cover. But before we do that, Rick, how serious is the sovereign bond market risk right now? Is this background noise or a structural threat that could break other asset classes and that is related to commodities as well. So this I want to clear this for. Speaker 1 Right now, for right now, it's background noise, looking longer. You know, Lucian, if somebody owes you money that they can't pay you, that's a problem. It's particularly a problem when you go to collect. If you're a debtor, like the US government has nuclear arms, it isn't their problem. It's your problem. But it is a problem in the very near term. And by very near term, I mean 2-3, even five years, it's less of a problem. Investor expectations are set by their experience in the immediate past, and the period 1982 to 2022 was the most benign investing epoch in human history. Most people can't comprehend a de facto default. They can't comprehend the Eurozone issuing a euro bond and finding no buyers. They can't comprehend AUS Treasury auction where nobody shows up. And in both those cases, the first time it happens, the second time it happens, the euro will be able to paper that over by printing EUR and buying the bonds themselves. And the market will accept it the first two or three times, but ultimately the market won't accept it. And it's important for people who live around the world, but particularly for people who live in Western Europe and the United States, places that are believed to be politically not risky, that public finances in both parts of the world are treacherous. They're literally treacherous. I don't want to leave it to to rhetoric. So I'm going to answer the question too long. We've talked about it before. I'm not going to talk about the euro numbers because I don't understand them, but in the US, the Internal Revenue Service estimates that the private net worth combined of all American citizens is something like $172 trillion. That's a big number. You know, it's a lot of money. The problem is that the on balance sheet liabilities of the US government are approaching 40 trillion and the off balance sheet liabilities, the next net present value of entitlements, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, all that 120 trillion. If you add 40 and 120, you get 160, which is a distressingly large fraction of the 172 that we're worth. But it gets worse every year. You know the the surplus $12 trillion would, according to arithmetic, last us a while. At least it's a plurality. But the different, The difficulty is that the on balance sheet liabilities grow by two trillion a year and the off balance sheet liabilities grow by another 2 trillion a years, which means in three years we use up the delta between what we're worth and what we owe. That's problematic. I'm not suggesting we're going to have a default Lucien. What I'm suggesting is twofold. The services that Americans rely on the US government for their pension, subsidized healthcare, all of the all of the services that they enjoy will become less affordable and less available in the future. And so Americans who believe that they're going to live on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid have to think of alternatives. The second is that almost certainly in the scramble for capital, interest rates will continue to rise and that will have a lot of implications. What breaks first if bond markets lose confidence? There's a example of this, the decade of the 1970s where US nominal interest rates rose by 300%. Were that to happen again, a 30 year U.S. Treasury would be paying 15 as opposed to five. An example of the damage that might cause is that 30 year fixed mortgage rates often trade at a 250 basis basis point premium to the US Treasury. Can you imagine a 30 year mortgage rate in the US at 17, five or eighteen? I can because I saw it happen in 1980, but most people can't. Speaker 2 I hear you, Rick, but OK, if the bond markets lose confidence in in in fiscal discipline, what breaks first here, equities, housing, private credit or the currency itself? Speaker 1 Currency last, but the truth is yes, yes and yes, increasing interest rates. And by the way, I think in the very near term, it's not unlikely the interest rates go down because I think there's some confidence left in the system. I think it's misplaced confidence, but I think people want to believe that the system is going to correct itself. And so I think the near term interest, direct interest rates probably down, but longer term it's inexorably higher. Higher interest rates increase the real cost of capital for housing, which means housing becomes less affordable. It does ugly things to the bond market. If you increase the yield on the 30 year bond from say five to seven, what you do is you devalue the principle of a 30 year bond by 20 or 25%. That means university endowments, pension funds, insurance funds, all that kind of stuff lose 25% of the net present value that they hope to pay out the beneficiaries over time. And they can clobber equities markets for two reasons. The 1st is that increased interest increases the cost of capital, increases the operating costs of businesses and lowers their per share income. Gold & silver miners: margins, earnings & cost inflation If your income put costs go up, you know it pinches your margins. The second is that it competes with dividend yields for capital. As the interest rate goes up, the bond becomes more attractive relative to dividend paying stocks. The the share prices, those stocks go down. So the equity cost of capital for companies goes up. Ugly set of circumstances. Ugly set of circumstances. Is this likely to occur in earnest in 2026, maybe 2027? I don't think so, but over the course of a decade, much more likely than not to occur. Speaker 2 Got it. Let me return to Gold and Silver. I presume you're closely monitoring gold and silver company results and earnings this quarter. What do you make of the reported margins and all in sustaining cost numbers so far? Speaker 1 I'm delighted to say, Lucian, in preparation for this interview, I live, I listen to a couple of the interviews that you and I had done historically over the weekend just to make sure that I didn't say something stupid in context. And we were lucky enough to describe to discuss this six months ago. And I said the probability that we couldn't, that we would not have earnings increases, earning surprises was nil because the Wall Street and Bay St. expectations on earnings were set at 32 to 3300 dollars and they were selling the gold for 46. And that's what happened. The analysts got swamped. The earnings relative to the earnings expectations weren't merely higher, they were farcically higher. Now I believe that all in sustaining costs are going to grow and they're going to grow rapidly. And I think we have some bad surprises coming up in front of us in costs. It isn't just the obvious 1 energy costs, but social rents are going up explosively, which is to say taxes, royalties off off concession expenses that companies have to meet social expectations. But there's a whole range of stuff that's getting more expensive at Mining Week in London in the end of at the end of 2025, the major copper companies in the world. Said that inflation in capital cost to build new copper mines was increasing at between 8 and 12% compounded. Best way to invest in copper for the long term That's going to work it way work its way to the balance sheet and the income statement of gold and silver companies. You need to understand that not maybe this next quarter, but the quarter after that, we're going to begin to see AISC escalations that are going to scare the hell out of us. But the stocks on a historic basis, price to net present value, price to cash flow, especially enterprise value since they paid down so much debt are very attractive in historical terms, if you believe as I believe that precious metals prices will continue to do well for a very long time. Speaker 2 Rick, you mentioned copper over here. For a long term copper investment, what is better? Is it bad backing proven mind builders like Robert Friedland or Frank Giustra or prioritizing top tier jurisdictions or simply betting on the largest scalable deposits? How are you playing that? Speaker 1 For most people, most people need to play it differently than I do because I work very hard, because I'm willing to take risk, and because volatility doesn't matter to me a bit. I can take the risk on earlier stage speculations. I can take the risk on Robert Friedland or even on Frank Giustra with a undeveloped deposit. For most people, they should play the game owning the biggest and the best. If you believe, as I believe, that no matter what we do today, we will have supply deficits in copper even without data centers five years from now, and that the copper eventually will have to be rationed by price. You own the very, very, very high quality copper producers. You don't try to out compete the market. You just let the fact that the market increase is inevitable guide your outlook. The more work you're willing to do, the more volatility that you can psychologically endure, the more risk that you can take. The more alpha you can chase, the more risk you can chase. Chase. When I talked earlier about the fact that I was playing the M and a business in the gold, the the M and a game in the gold business that presupposes that I have access to an exit, enough expertise to compile a shopping list of companies that are likely to be taken over. Oil outlook after the Gulf conflict The same thing in the copper business. To the extent that you come down to the developers, you have to be able, in movie parlance, to separate the good from the bad, from the ugly. Many of her listeners are not willing to do the work. Those who pardon the naked commercial, go to the rural classroom or attend the rural symposium are equipping themselves to take the risk. But those who don't should buy the obvious. They should buy the big high quality companies. Speaker 2 Good answer, Rick. Let's touch on oil. I remember you were pretty bullish on oil before the war started and that was a perfect timing actually. Really you, you, you, you bought a lot of stocks back then. How is the situation now today when we have oil at this current prices? Are you becoming bearish on oil? Did you, did you sell some of your positions over here? Speaker 1 How? Speaker 2 Are you doing? Speaker 1 I I should have, and I probably still should. I bought some of the oil stocks because they were hated, or at least because oil was hated and oil's anything but hated. Today I'm not smart enough to say what or if the Gulf conflict settles itself. I don't know if it doesn't settle itself this week. This week, the oil pricing in the market that we see right now, which is in anticipation of shortages, will be replaced by an oil market that we see where you ration oil by price. I don't know if that's going to occur. So I don't know how to assign a speculative premium to the oil market from a fundamental basis. When I told your audience to buy Exxon at 85 or $90.00, that's different to tell him to buy Exxon $180. Now, I believe, as you and I talked about in January, that the oil price will be very stout by 2029, not because of the war, but rather because of the deferred sustaining capital investments. So if you're prepared to hold the oil stocks between now and 2030, there's no reason to sell them. If you're a trader, please understand that a resolution of the Gulf conflict will send the oil quote down markedly from here and likely take oil stocks down too. If I had large positions in the speculative oil stocks, I would probably be selling them. My positions are in extremely high quality oil stocks with five exceptions and the five exceptions I should say, are exploration companies in offshore basins in third world countries, heated assets. Anyway, they're less oil price dependent than they are exploration success dependence. Is it time to re-enter lithium? So I'm not selling them either. For other people. You know somebody who owned Exxon who would have trauma if the share price in Exxon fell from 180 plus to 125. I'm not saying it will occur, but I'm not saying it won't occur. That person might want to take, you know, a 50% six months profit and wait and see what happens. My belief is that Exxon will be selling at better than this price in 2029 or 2030 anyway. So the question is, are you cute enough to sell it and buy it back? I'm not, so I'm just going to relax. Speaker 2 OK, Rick, we didn't talk about lithium for a long time. How are you viewing lithium today? Is has the time for re entering lithium space come? Speaker 1 I'm personally still afraid of direct lithium extraction technology and I'm still of the view that we don't have a shortage of lithium so much as we had a shortage of lithium refining capacity. It if you're versed in technical analysis, which I'm not, the lithium chart would suggest that we've hit the bottom and we're moving up. I also note that one extremely astute investor, Brian Dalton, expressed expressed his preference 4 weeks ago when Altius bought lithium royalties. Brian, I've known him since he was a very young man. He's an extremely astute investor and I need to revisit my lithium thesis based on the fact that Brian just spent 300 and something $1,000,000 buying a collection of lithium royalties. I have not re entered the lithium market. The new generation of resource investing superstars When I read pronouncements from little tiny stupid companies like Berkshire Hathaway, Exxon, Chevron, Occidental about the fact that they believe that the direct lithium extraction will allow them to extract lithium from waste brines in the salt water business, that scares me. I don't like betting against technology, particularly a technology that will obliterate my Hard Rock investments. I'm not smart enough to tell you that what they're saying with regards to that technology is true or not true. I just don't like betting against technology employed by the likes of Exxon and Chevron. Speaker 2 Rick, throughout the history you placed your bets on the right people, the Friedlands, the Lundeens, the other big names. Who are those people today, the new Lundeens? The new Friedlands that you are betting on? Speaker 1 Well, I'm delighted to say that one of the new Lundeens is named Lundeen. I'm a big backer of Jack Lundeen and his brothers. I began my investing relationship with the Lundeens in 1975 with Adolf Lundeen. Rest in peace. I continued to invest in the 90s with Ian Lundeen and Lucas Lundeen. Lucas rest in peace and I'm delighted to say I'm heavily invested with the third generation of Lundeens in 2026. So the easiest answer as to who will succeed to the Lundeen crown is Lundin, a family culture that generates young men who are that hard working, that smart and by the way, that kind. When they're grandsons of a billionaire, you know, you would expect them to be chasing models, sniffing cocaine. That is real testimony to the enduring character of the Lundin family. So I would start that discussion with Lundin's. There are a variety now of 3rd and 4th generation entrepreneurs, some of which I'm trying to showcase in my upcoming conference. I point to John Odd, 51 years of age, the author, with his mentor, Bob Quartermaine, my old friend of the Homestake mine takeover in Dakota and the Hemlo Mine takeover. In Hemlo. I will be showcasing Amir Adnani, an entrepreneur in his early 50s, which who now presides over a 16 or $18 billion public company empire, primarily in uranium and gold. The truth is that when I look at the future and I look at the people who are guiding that future, it pains me to say it, but they're better than we were. There's a lot of them. My hope, not this year because they had conflicts. My hope is that my next year's Natural Resource Investment Symposium will feature the Lundins will feature a study for my attendees of three generations of investment success and, and what constitutes success, what is necessary, a necessary predeterminant of exploration success. This year's conference, like the last 25 years, I didn't do it for the first five years, but the last 25 years I've had a feature at the conference called The Living Legends, where I interview on stage 3 or 4 people who have built multibillion dollar natural resource companies from scratch. Rick Rule’s biggest investing mentors And I asked them to describe the process and what that process has taught them and how it makes them better investors. And my hope is, for as long as I'm able to continue the conference, that I use the lessons that were taught to me by the Living legends to question on stage the future lessons. I absolutely, when I have the opportunity to, intend to question Jack Lundeen on stage in the context of the lessons that I learned from his grandfather, because the lessons are timeless. Speaker 2 Among those those people you named and those are really legends, no names. Who left the biggest impact on you? Rick, I know it's a hard question. You, you met a lot of people in your life. You worked with a lot of people, but who who was the one that really was the one that impressed Rick Roll in a big, big, big way? Speaker 1 It's tough to focus on one, so I have to give credit to a couple it off. Lundin taught me the political risk was relevant, that while the United States might be less risky than some other country, that you had to consider the price that you paid for the risk. So I did business with Adolf. I did business with him all over the world, but I did business with him in Congo, in Syria, in Sudan. I did a lot of business with him in Russia, and I'm not trying to say I didn't have some scary times, but when I look at what I made, that lesson was important. The second lesson that I learned from Adolph was that everything that could go wrong with a small mine can go wrong with a big mine, But a small mine can only make you big money or small money. Pardon me, that you had to go big if you're going to take the risk. I learned both those lessons from Adolph. I learned from maybe I learned from Ross BB, maybe I taught Ross BD, I'm not sure. But Ross BD and I discovered together that you make money by investing in high quality assets and markets that are out of favor. So Pan American silver came about in 1990 when silver was selling for 4 bucks an ounce. Both Ross and I believe that silver could go to 10 or 15. We were wrong. I went to 50, but we were able in Pan American silver and also in its cousin silver standard, to buy huge silver deposits around the world that made no sense at $4.00 silver but would make money at $12.00 silver. Buying hate and holding it for the long term was something that I watched Ross B do in the silver business, in the copper business and other businesses. The second lesson that I learned from Ross, but I did I did learn this from him, was that size in itself was an objective. Because larger companies had larger market caps, they had increased share liquidity and increasingly they benefited from passive buying, index buying. And Ross. BD taught me that amalgamations didn't have to be strategic. They could be synergistic as you acquired a new company and a higher quality asset base, you sold off the lower quality assets, reinvested the money in higher quality assets, rinse, wash, repeat. There was no synergy in Equinox acquisition of Caliber or in Equinox acquisition of Orla, maybe some with Orla in the Abitibi. Ross grew for size. You will see him as a consequence of the Caliber acquisition and the Orla acquisition. Sell the lowest quality assets he has and redeploy the money in higher quality assets and you will see him acquire again. You will do that. It's important to learn that lesson. It's important to learn that scale if you employ the capital property properly is its own vision, its own virtue and that you constantly are transactional and upgrade the quality of assets in your in your portfolio, including dispositions. I would say I learned from several people, but Bob Quartermain, who's become a close personal friend of mine that and I learned this too from Agnico Eagle. That kindness and honor matter I. Speaker 2 Agreed. Speaker 1 Just interviewed Amar Al Giundi, the CEO of Agnico Eagle in my pre conference interview and I was talking about the corporate assets and he said our greatest asset of course is our corporate culture. Our employee turnover is 1/3 of the turnover of other major mining companies and our lost time accidents are half. We don't have the retraining expense because we don't have to retrain and we don't have the lost time injury expense because we don't have as many lost time injuries. But importantly, we have a loyalty. We have an Esprit that they don't have. It doesn't show up necessarily in the near term on the balance sheet, but it sure shows up on the income statement. And I learned that lesson with Bob Quartermaine. If you have a reputation for being honest and honorable and nice, Bob Quartermaine's employee base at Bruce Jack Mine, as an example, was a third tall 10 First Nation when the commonly held belief among white folks was you couldn't hire native people, Bob said. Of course you can. You have to spend more time training people who come from a pre industrial culture. But unlike folks that you bring from southern Canada, northern Canada, these folks live there and they want to live there. They they're better employees and the consequence of that is that you develop a labor force that is more loyal to you than they are to their paycheck. The second thing that happens if you're Bob Quartermain is that when you go to acquire the assets around the Homestake mine from the then owners, the then owners know you and love you and trust you. And so you're able to make that acquisition. When you go to the owners of the Hemlo mine, Barrick and you know and have known the then CEO Mark Bristow for 30 years and he knows you to be a competent honorable person. He will sell you that mine in preference to selling it to somebody who he doesn't know and doesn't trust. Those are all important lessons and it's difficult for me to segregate among them. I would also, I should also add, as a mentor, an important mentor to me, Ned Goodman, a great investor, a great company builder. It was Ned really, I think, who allowed me to take the education I had in value and deep value investing and the discipline that I learned from Peter Condell about the value of redundant assets and employ that in the natural resource space. So it would be difficult to say I learned the important lessons from one person. I learned the important lessons from at least five, I guess. One more, actually. Eric Sprott. Speaker 2 Of course. Speaker 1 You know, when I went to work with Eric, work. When I went to work for Eric, it was his name on the door, not mine. The important lesson that I learned from Eric, I spent my whole life minimizing my downside risk. And he said, yeah, that's all important, but you got to look to the upside. You don't get rich not losing money. You get rich making money and so yes, it's important to focus on not losing your money, but it's also important to speculate on assets where you could enjoy 20 fold returns. So sadly I could do this forever. I've learned so many lessons from so many great people. Speaker 2 Yeah. No, thank you for sharing this really great people. Eric's brought Bob Quarterman. I really respect them all a lot. Rick, thank you very much for this chat. Before I let you go, any final message for message for my viewers, my subscribers. Speaker 1 Well, at least three commercials do it. The first is if you care about personalizing the lessons I've learned in resources, you can do that. Go to ruleinvestmentmedia.com and list your natural resource stocks and I'll personally rank of 1 to 10 for free, which is a pretty good price. The second is that my sort of annual magnum opus is the Natural Resources Investment Symposium in Boca Raton. You can't buy a live ticket anymore, I'm sold out. But you can and should benefit from the conference in the comfort and convenience of your own home via live stream Rule symposium.com. Finally, if you're part of Luchen's North American audience, which is to say American or Canadian, and you're unhappy with your current bank, which I suggest is all of them, check out Battle Bank. Among other things, we pay you interest on your checking account. We allow you to bank in 20 currencies, not just the US dollar. Some of your deposits will be LED against gold and silver, which I suggest a good collateral. And if you have capital tied up in gold and silver, which you might need to access, we will happily lend you money against your gold and silver. That's battlebank.com. Speaker 2 Rick, thank you so much for joining me today. Speaker 1 A pleasure, thank you for having me back.