Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 117: Reality's Canceled

[MUSIC PLAYING] This is exactly right. Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Juanu, where two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa de Julio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome aboard season six of The Girlfriends, Flight or Fight, which takes place 30,000 feet in the sky. A beautiful woman smiles and hands you a scotch. But you have no idea just how messed up her job actually is. It was the most sexist job. I think you could have. Until one day, a group of stewardesses spark a revolution that reshapes America. Listen to The Girlfriends, Flight or Fight, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I survived nine months in captivity. And I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the survivor files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the survivor files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. This is our show where we look back on and edit together our old episodes from 2018, this time with all new insights and case updates. Today we're rewinding to episode 117, which we named "Reality's Canceled." I stand by that. It has been, that's when the timeline jumped. This episode originally came out April 19, 2018. Let's get into it, the intro to episode 117. [MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome to my favorite murder. The podcast where-- You know exactly where you are as we introduce you in the very beginning. You're baffled when you hit play and stare at our logo until we tell you where you are. Do you want to start with corrections corner? Do you want me to start with telling you something crazy that happened? I will start with saying that I did a tweet about me belching so loudly that people heard me on the street. And I was very embarrassing. And lots of people responded and were like, I knew I was a Karen. And the irony of that is the way-- one of the way, Georgia and I became friends. One of the icebreakers from the very beginning was we were at a Thanksgiving dinner at our friend's house, very small party. We knew each other from talking once at a party, I believe. And Georgia, almost the entire party was belching. And I could not stop laughing. It was my favorite fucking thing in the world. And so when that happened and people were like, I'm such a Karen, I was like, I wonder Georgia's going to mad that I just stole her thing. Yeah, I'm angry that you stole the most embarrassing thing about me. It's so gross that my mom is so ashamed of that clearly just indicates that I have some gastrointestinal issues. I mean, join the club. I guess we all do. But I want you to have it. I want you to have that. I want you to be known for that instead of me. OK, well, I have clearly moved into that because I made this burp. I put my hand up to cover my mouth. I will say that for myself. But I think that made it-- there's an echo effect that was created because of my hand cupping. And so was like I was yodeling a burp across Magnolia Avenue. They're going to start bringing you on stage at Coachella to like, you know, your burps. Fuck the yodeling boy. Let's get me belching into a microphone. That's right. Yeah. I was belched out the window in the passenger seat on like, in like Beverly Hills. And like, I angled it out the window. And next to us at the stoplight rolled down. And Lou Windows rolled down, or maybe his car top up, because he was so rich, who I angled it at, was the dude from America, an idol. Who Rancy Kraus? Yes. Oh, no. They're going to be right at him. And he was like, you're going to Hollywood. And then Randy Jackson popped up and was like, little pitchy. Little pitchy on that one. So you're getting a pitchy. Wow. We just think, Stephen, happy birthday. His birthday was yesterday. He does it, Stephen Ray Morris is 31st birthday. That's right. I feel old. No, you are. You're so old. We celebrated with a-- I was like, what do we-- we have to get-- Stephen, like a dinosaur cupcake or something. And then Vince went to the grocery store last night and came back with this Hello Kitty birthday cake in the most like insane box. It was just so hilariously perfect. And then we ate it. We ate it. My heart is racing right now. Yeah, Stephen had two pieces. I was like, don't throw this away. He was like, no, I want another piece. And he's having coffee. My theory is that it wasn't ice cream per se. It was just ice cream like frosting. Like it was just an entire frosting cake. Frozen frosting. Frozen frosting cake. With frosting on the outside. Yeah. And confetti. And confetti. It was pretty great. It was so amazing. Happy birthday, Vince. Thank you, Stephen. Can you tell us what you've learned in the past year? Ooh. Pay your parking ticket. Which is, I think what you told me last year. Yes. Really? And so that worked for you? Yes. This is work. Yeah, yeah. This is crazy. We just pass wisdom like this. Don't you're saying don't delay. Do it right away. Yeah. Because then it just has like anxiety. Because you just see it sitting in your back seat. Yeah. Yeah. You already know it's that money's gone. But then yeah. Or you know you're late. Anyway, so you don't pay it. And then you realize the first time you knew you were late. You weren't late. And you could have not had to pay double. Yep. And then when I was in thousands of dollars to the city of Los Angeles for parking tickets, yeah. When I lived in San Francisco, I'd get tickets all the time and I would, I would park in the crosswalk in front of our house because I just couldn't find a spot ever. And then I got, and then I found out that I owed San Francisco $800 in parking tickets. Oh my god. I, my, I wish I had a recording of the way my dad was yelling on the phone. Because in the middle, I was all scared and upset as he's yelling at me. And then I realized, oh, I'm not at home anymore. Yeah. I could just pull the phone away from my ear, put it down, walk around. I don't have to just listen to him yell. You don't have to listen to your parents anymore. No. Even though he was 100% right, I was just like, yeah, all right. Talk to you later. Go ahead and pay that. Okay, pay it. Talk to you later. I did a fucking rookie thing as someone who's lived in Los Angeles for like 20 years. I paid a ton of money in the first like two years to parking tickets because that's what happens. And then I was like, well, now I got this. I, I am LA. Like this is my hometown. In one week, and the same spot, I got three tickets. Whoa. And the same fucking like, did you not move your car? No. You just kept. It was like next to my cafe that I go work at. And I was just so involved in what I was working on that like, and also I don't know math. So I like, forgot that an hour had gone by and not two and that. Yeah. But that means you're in the flow. That's actually very good. You're, when time collapses like that, you're in the flow of creativity. And all I have to do for that is pay $68. It's just, it's, it's a, a kin to going to, uh, universal studios, it's up there. But you know, there's less rides at that cafe, but isn't it a, it's a wild ride in my brain. That's right. And that creative energy, stupid brain. I have something to tell you, Karen, something happened that just made me laugh. When you guys left after the episode yesterday last week, where are we? Seek his time as claps were in the flow right there. All right. Something happened that's like one of your, I wouldn't call it your biggest fears, but this thing that you're anxious about. Did you, you didn't have pants and the only pants that were there were too small? No. To put on. No. No, guess another one. Like a thing that you're, like you're always like, what is this going to happen? You fell down in public. No. Um, I remember when you fell down after we had lunch together, like one of the, first, not like one of the first times after starting the podcast that we had hung out. We had like one of the lunch. We had just recorded Joe DeRosa and Kurt Braunellers podcasts at Mel Dam. Yeah. What's it called? And we went across the street. Mm-hmm. Oh, oh, emotional hangs. Emotional hangs. And we left and, oh, you just ate it. I felt so bad. I mean, I fell in that way where the Styrofoam container that had my half of a BLT flew out of my hand and into the middle of sunset. So sick. And it's this thing. I have these trick ankles, both of them because I was praying with Michael so many times that everyone's small. If I stepped down wrong, especially as a little hot hole, too, oh, that's right. I stepped into a podcast directly into the tiniest pothole and I can't help but laugh when I stand. I was like, we're not good enough friends yet for me to laugh at you. How did you not, though? There's no, that you have to let people laugh if you fault. If you're a grown adult that falls all the way down, yeah, you, you have to take what But I also laughed and then I went and got the car and brought it to you. So like, I, I'm not a dick. I'm not like, bye, I'm gonna run through traffic. - That would have been amazing if you were like, but, well anyway, great lunch to you later. - You're on your own. - On my way out, grabbed your beer, styrofoam deal, and fucking took it with me. - You're like, oh, I love that. - Oh, you don't want this? Are you threw it in the street? - This is for my lunch. Okay, no, I, all right. Let me set the scene. - It's none of those fears? - No. - No, mobs, box of mobs. - Uh-huh. - What? - What? (laughing) Are you serious? - I feel like fucking, I, see you guys left. Vince and I sat down, we were hanging out watching TV and I was like, why is Doddy, my little kitten, just staring, they have this box of toys of all their little toys and stuff. And she's just staring at it, which is weird. And I eventually get paranoid. I'm like, why is she, is there like a spider in there that's going on? So I pulled the box out and turned the light on, and there's a moss in my station in it, and there are moths crawling all throughout it. - No, no, no, 100%. - I found a fucking box of moths. (laughing) And so I put it out on the balcony, and I was like, no, can't deal with this right now. And then I went back yesterday thinking, or the other day thinking maybe they had thrown away, and it's just like, you can see all the moth eggs in it. They're still moths in it. So now I have to get them totally new toys and they're all these cool like murderino toys. - Oh, that's right, there's all these homemade toys. - I can't get rid of them. - Oh, shit. - It's the thing I do to deal with things where I just leave it. - Put it on the balcony and shut the shade. - 100%. Oh my God, that's, now, do you think in any realm, this supports my theory that I am a psychic? - Yes. - Now, I know it's been about a year and a half, since I talked about originally fearing boxes of moths, but I maybe I'm a long-term psychic. - It could be, and for no reason. - Yeah, it doesn't help at all. - It doesn't help any day. - It didn't help me. - It wasn't a warning. Just turned into a funny joke. People have given us great box of moths. - It's right, up right over here in the pod lot, we have some, like, joke box of moths. - Gorgeous. People have, they've hand-made moths for us. Gorgeous. - Paper moths, Shay. - Paper. (laughing) Maybe that's, maybe you are a psychic to the puns I'm gonna make a year and a half later. - I just need to make a recording of when Georgia is talking, and while she's talking, thinks of a pun, the joy that comes into her eyes is so delightful. It's kind of like a cartoon. (laughing) Where you're like, paper moths, Shay, paper moths. (laughing) - Okay. - Now do we talk about something fucking awful and heavy? - Yes. - My hometown Burbank. - Yeah. - So I'm on the next door app in my neighborhood. - Which is the talk to your neighbors app? - Talk to your neighbors app. We're having a yard sale. Somebody's trying to steal my recycling. My next door, you're fucking trash. - For real. My neighborhood is filled with old, retired, mate, potentially rich people. 'Cause I live basically adjacent to a nice neighborhood. So I get all these, we get all the bad neighborhood stuff, we get all the fancy neighborhood stuff. Literally, there's listings like stranger on the street. Just anybody walking by, they're trying to report on next door. - It is. - Can you write back and be like, calm down? - Yeah, I mean, I actually watched a guy. There's a really hilarious writer named Guy Under Kaiser that I follow on Twitter, that's also a TV writer that my friends are friends with. So I kind of know of him. And I saw him one time on the next door app, get into a fight with a guy and I DM him on Twitter and just go, "Just so you know, I'm on your side." And that was, these people are insane. They're beyond insane. So one of the listings was raccoon out in the day. They're shit like that. We are just like, you guys need to start going to a community center or take a class. - Or feed the raccoon and make friends with him. - Or feed that raccoon. - Trap it, get it inside your house. But the other day on the next door app, God bless it, up comes an official Burbank police report about three dead bodies that have been found in a car. - Jesus. - And they don't know. There's a bunch of talk that there's missing people from the Bakersfield area that people are theorizing. These might be those missing people. - Like a family? - It did not say. It's just the missing individuals from the Bakersfield area is the only way they set it. - Okay so maybe they're linked somehow. - Well, that's the theory, but police are like, it's unproven, they don't have the identities yet. - At the end of they say wink, wink. 'Cause that's how you know. - That's how you know they know exactly what we're talking about. No, but it's like, I think about a year ago, a crime very similar was in the morning and a parking person found the burnt out car. Remember being Burbank by the Burbank Library? That's what this reminds me of. But it's, I don't think it's the same area. But it still was seven in the morning and a parking person came and it was a red Jeep that had parked there for like several days. - What I think is interesting though is that it was parked in that illegal parking place, which means they wanted the car to be found to be locked up there. - Maybe, you know what I mean? - Yes, the idea though that three dead bodies- - Three people. - Is just like, God it, like what happened? - Please don't let it be a family. Yeah, what the fuck? - What the fuck? - So scary. - That's a, I don't know. Something I'll definitely come back to you with if there's anything interesting. But it's like, we talk about this stuff so much and we read about it so much. And when it's, you know, it's what we always say. When it happens like near you, you're just like, no way. - Yeah. - This is happens other places. - Totally. - Scary. - So skeedy. - Let me change the tune. - Do you have no way to do it and it sucks. Okay, I have two corrections from Monday's mini-sode. The term "suck it" was not said by Stone Cold Steve Austin. And that had been slapped at me when I said that. So I have a terrible wrestling wife. It was said by these other people. - I don't want to screw it up against what I'm gonna say. And then also the thing I'm gonna be drinking in the UK is not a pint of bitters, but a pint of bitter. - Okay, bitter. - Bitter. - Singular. - Yes. - That's it. - That's good to know. But now we know, then bitters are the thing I was talking about. Bitter is the thing you were talking about, right? - Right. - Because you can order bitters, but that's when you feel like you're burping a lot. You can order bitters and make all that go away. - Yeah. - Supposedly. - But I have a question that we will find out when we are in London, England, I believe. They talk about having tea all the time. But I think, don't they just mean lunch? - No. Tea is like a snack. - Oh shit. Karen, why are we just doing this right? Steven, look up. - Like tea. - We put it out there to the University who tells us, but it's just, I'm watching a British show right now where they keep talking about what did you have for tea. - I think when you, I think tea from the books I've read, I think tea is, you have tea and like a dessert. Like a, what's for tea? It's like this dessert. It's like a sponge cake or some kind of pudding. - But not according to this TV show. That's why. - Which one? - Oh, I want to talk about it at the end of the show. - All right. - Well, okay. Well, when we had high tea, I think that's different. It's like lunch, snacks. - Snacks, that's why I think it's snacks. - It's not though. According to the show. - Well, we should do it when we're there. - And we're back, we're back, we're burping. - More burping than ever. Why don't you burve so much on the show? - We drink a lot of beverages beforehand. - Yes. - Is there an air swallowing thing with talking? - Absolutely. When you get all excited. - Yeah. - And you kind of like, there's a lot of gasping in this show. There's a lot of gasping, a lot of short, like we're not doing good diaphragmatic breathing. - No, there's a lot of slouching. - Yes. - Especially back then. Are we still in the pop off, I think? - 2018. - Yeah, I think so. - I think so. - That means for me, it's like legs up higher than my head. - Didn't I sit on the floor a lot in front of the couch? - Yeah. - I feel like that was my, with your old coffee. I know we've talked about this, but - Oh, that's all right. - Me and Steven would get to Georgia's apartment at like seven o'clock at night. And she would have her old coffee from the morning. And we'd be like, can we have your coffee? - Eat it up, who gives a shit? - Every once in a while, we would reheat it every once in a while, you'd make us a new pot. But most of the time, we were just drinking your old pot. - I will make you a new pot because I'm not good at making it. And I'm lazy, let's be honest here. There's a couple things happening at once. - I made someone coffee once that came over 'cause Vince makes it, he's good at it, you know? And so if he isn't home, I'm not gonna make it for you. It's gonna be worse than if you just reheat the coffee that Vince made that morning. - Sure. - And then I'm also like, give it to people black and don't offer them any cream or sugar 'cause I drink it black so it doesn't even cross my mind. - That's what Steven and I did, though, we would just go in and we'd be like, yeah, reheat it, and then it would be like almost bedtime. And me and Steven would be like, let's drink as much caffeine as we can. - I mean, you gotta do it for the love of the pot. - It is what has fueled this show for a decade. Okay, I have a question for you. - Yeah, when was the last time you got a parking ticket? (laughs) - I'm fucking never really-- - Really? - I know what, I've really turned my life around, but it's too late, my dad refuses to be proud of me. But he would be, if he would just listen, he would be so proud because I don't get parking tickets. And the other day, I actually did one of those things where, I think I was in Studio City, and I pulled in, and it was one of those things where like, there was a number and I was supposed to go find the coordinating fucking thing, and I was like, no, I'm rolling the dice. - No ticket. - Nice, right? - I've definitely had a few. But since my brain is formed, completely in my 20s, I haven't, it hasn't, they're shooting an exemption for a people whose brains aren't. - 'Cause they're so confusing in LA, especially, of like, where and how and when. - When my niece started driving, when she was 16 years old, and her friend started driving. - I was like, who picked 16? This is, we're not farmers. - We're not farmers. - Like, get these kids off the streets and still-- - They can't even vote for their own. of rights yet. They shouldn't be able to drive themselves places. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get on our high horse. Anyway, this is where the box of moths fear came from. This is the episode. So long ago. Yeah. And people used to threaten it. It's kind of funny because being raised by a sister, yes, that's right. My sister raised me. She taught me a lot of good tricks growing up. One of which is don't ever actually tell people your real thing. Oh, you know what I mean? So box moths are like, oh, that's my biggest fear. Sure. It isn't really like my clowns. I don't like clowns. Don't fucking give it away. Not on a podcast. Sure. And she taught me that with don't tell people who you actually have a crush on. And in high school, I made someone was, I was talking to somebody and I got the vibe of like, not safe. Yeah. So they're like, who do you like? And then I said, and it was just like some guy that was in the class. Jesus was a Jesus. Again, I had to preach. Yeah. And then like a couple of weeks later, he started going out with my friends, older sister. And she came and apologized to me. She's like, I know you really liked him. And I was like, this school is so small. And this is thank God she told me this because I didn't. I was like, it's okay. But I was like, oh no. I tell everything to everyone all the time. I know. Just know you can lie. Okay. Do you want to update on the burbank bodies in the car? God, that is just, it's one of those things where like, I feel like once we started doing this podcast, the amount of actual crime around me became so much more evident. And it was like building and building where it's like, yeah, this is everywhere all the time. Totally. Well, you notice it, like all the time now too, I think. Right. Yeah. So this one was a really terrible story and a very sad one. The, the men in that car were three missing men from the Bakersfield area. And two of them were brothers. They were Lucas and Jan Carlos, Emma. And then the third victim was later identified as Carlos Elias Lopez. All three of those men had already been reported missing from Bakersfield. And they were found shot to death in a Jeep on April 17, 2018. This case has never been solved. It's still open. No arrests have been made. Wow. Yeah. That's such a long time. So sad. All right. Also, should we get into your story? Yes. This is another one of my, I survived the television show that I adore the most saved me when I had no story. But this story, Tika Adams, the woman who went through this horrifying experience, she's just, it's such an incredible thing that it felt great. And this is, I think, where, as we were doing this podcast, learning that the, the good feeling is the feeling of telling a story that could help that person or help people like that person totally in the future. The idea that young women who are pregnant should be slightly worried about this bizarre, like a person who would set up a similar, like a wish list online, and then be like, that's how they access them. Yeah. I'm a mother too. All that weird stuff. Yeah. Just to keep an eye out. No, it's, this story is stuck, I think, with everyone. It's so crazy. All right. So let's get into Karen's story about Tika Adams. Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Oh my god, Lexi. I'm Lexi, you want to wear two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Julio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. I'm not gonna get any of your fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today. And I've always got something to say. If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're gonna talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, I don't really care. All right, and with that, who went first last week? Me. I did. You did? Yeah, because I was like, I want to go first, right? Well, and again, I still don't like, I feel like we we never got a confirmation on if you did Jesse Palmer, I am Boston. We did, I did. Okay. Someone actually, yeah, somebody sent, somebody sent a tweet, a shit, I should have written her name down. I'm getting better at this, but I didn't do it this time. What? She sent a tweet that said, yeah, you did Jesse Palmer, a second show, late show, glad we mean so much. It was something really funny, like a real sassy Boston response that was like, yeah, late show, thanks for the love from the late show or something. It was really funny, but it doesn't matter because it honestly, we've done so many of these. Yeah. That it really felt new to me. If you don't remember, if Steven doesn't remember, if I don't remember, if Wikipedia doesn't mention it, never fucking happen. Well, and that means that we can just keep on every like two years, we'll just cycle through the same story. Perfect. But we'll switch off. But we'll, yeah. Oh, also, there was people that were saying you said something was in some neighborhood. Oh, yeah. I remember that. I mean, that's part for the course. I feel like we didn't say stuff, do stuff like that. Nobody would have any reason to interact. That's right. And then we would be, we'd all be so alone. The secret is sometimes we don't on purpose just so you guys will pay attention to us. We plant them. They're called Easter Easter egg mistakes. They're called, they're called Passover mistakes. Passover egg mistakes. Oh, free quality for Jewish equality. Okay. I hear that. They're Paisach mistakes. Paisach mistakes. Well, let me give a pun. No, it's not there. It really pays off. Paisach. Did that work? Did you even understand what I meant? Yes, it pays off. That was beautiful. You were slowly turning me to the pun cult. Oh, that was another, somebody else sent a message that was like, and because Karen loved puns and my head don't have to explode. And I was like, now we're just blending into the same person. Well, listen, we've, we've been doing a lot of things lately and we've been busy. And you know what that means when I've been busy and we come to do one of our episodes. I survived. I survived. I survived. I survived. And this one, I have to thank, and I'm saying your full name because it's on your Twitter feed. So I'm not thinking that you have a lot of shame about it. There's nothing, there's, she's shameful about her name. No, I'm just saying, I want to say her whole name because it's what her Twitter name is. Okay. And Charlotte White. Okay. And she tweeted me the other day and she tweeted me a little video. And she was like, what about this fucking awesome moment from I survived? Did you watch it? And I was like, what is that episode? Okay. So she reminded me and I got real mad at myself for not because this is one of those ones. And I think maybe I hadn't done it because this is another fetus snatching story just like Sarah Brady. They just keep doing that. It's so crazy. But this one, I think this one might be crazier. And it's also really fucking hard to listen to. So anybody that's squeamish, I will warn you before I say bad things in this one because there's been times when I haven't done that. People get a little bit upset. I think that's a really good idea. Yes. Because these, this one's rough and what's incredible. So this is Tika's story. Okay. This is me basically copying down the hurt I survived story. I feel like you're given I survived so much fucking play that they'd be like, yeah, go ahead and use the clip. I mean, one would like to think that, but lawyers aren't like that. Those fucking copyright lawyers don't give up. Okay, fine, fine, fine. So Charlotte sends a clip. And it's Tika in the middle of telling the most gruesome thing. Shitting on Michael Jackson. And it's so funny. And the way she does it is so funny. And I was like, oh my god, I love that one. And I responded to Charlotte. She's amazing. Whatever. And so then I was like, got to tell her story. Can we put the clip on like, on socials? Probably right week. I'll just, we'll just retweet Charlotte white. Yes. And then I read her home address. Charlotte white. I'm going to say it 19 more times. Okay. She's at call me Charlie 16 on Twitter. Okay. If you want to talk to her about this. But I do. So I always remember Tika. And it's the way she tells the story. Because as she's telling, she, her, she's always calm. And, and almost like Zen like calm. And she's, and we always say this. And it's a really lame thing to say. But it's just how we feel. It's not about, we're not talking about beauty per se. This woman is fucking gorgeous. Like, and the way she is. Yes, exactly. Radiant. I think it was the word I used. She's radiant. And she just, she talks through the worst fucking thing that could happen to a person with this like, she just kind of is rolling her eyes like, and if you can believe this, this is what happened. She's like holy shit. All right. So now I tell you, it's wear in Washington, DC, 2009. Okay. And Tika lives on the streets. The way she describes herself, she says she is rebellious. She didn't want to live by anybody else's rules. And because of that, she got herself into what she calls some rough spots. So after living that way for a while, she decides she needs to get her life together and she gets herself into a shelter. her. She gets off the street. So she's in their shelter and she meets a guy named PJ, they fall in love and they get married. So when she's seven and a half months pregnant, she starts to get phone calls from an unknown number. And she finally, when she picks up, it's a woman who says her name is Stephanie. And Stephanie says she works for a program that gets homeless, pregnant women, like clothing, baby supplies, car seats, you know, strollers, whatever. And she says that they have this big warehouse full of that stuff and that Tika can come down and pick out whatever she wants. And the smile that gets on her face when she's talking about this where she's just like, I was thrilled. Like, it's this amazing opportunity. And this is also the part of this element of the story that's so fucked up is this is a person who is as down on her luck as she can be. And this is when she gets fucking victimized. It's really fucked up. So she's thrilled. Immediately her husband PJ's like, I don't like this. Stop suspicious. I don't think this is too good to be true. And he said he actually what he says is don't rush into anything you don't know about. We're like, yes, PJ. But Tika's like, I really need this stuff. And there are programs like that. Absolutely. Yeah. There's plenty of like good harder people that want exactly that. Right. You know, want to help in that exactly that way. So she's like, yeah, don't don't be so mistrustful. So she ends up meeting this woman named Stephanie outside of the shelter. And she says that Stephanie is really nice. She's very soft-spoken. She gets into her car. She starts Stephanie asked her how everything is. She starts telling her about her life and how she has turned it around. She's gotten off the streets and now she's married and now she's going to have this baby and that she's really, really happy. And so they as she's like talking and driving, you know, she's just telling her about everything. They end up at Stephanie's apartment. So she goes up into Stephanie's apartment with her and Stephanie brings her into an unfurnished bedroom. It sits her down and puts on a movie and then starts doing other stuff. Right. And so yeah. So here's this is the thing that like you don't know any of this extra stuff. So this is just my opinion. But this is the kind of thing where if you're in the position of as of being given something, right, that you really, really want and need very badly, you're not going to question a person that's changed, starts changing their story ever so slightly. Totally because you still are ingratiated to that person. Yes. You, you're like, get me to that fucking warehouse. Yeah. If you need to stop off at your apartment, so be it. Yeah. That happens. Yeah. And I'm sure that that woman gave her some storyline of why she needed to be there for a little while. So it's like, I'll just put on this movie and let me just get these things done. But that's, I don't know if that's exactly how it makes total sense. That's how I'm picturing it where you start to rationalize. It's just like, yeah, this is fine. Yeah. So she gets a call from PJ while she's sitting there. Oh, he goes, as she said, he goes, where are you at? And she's like, I'm fine. But she goes, because the truth was, I didn't know where it was. So she doesn't want him to worry. Right. But his worry is making her begin to worry. Yeah. And begin to realize what a mistake it was to kind of lose herself in the conversation. And she doesn't, she can't say where she is. Just know what neighborhood she's even in. Yeah. Okay. So Anna gets worse from here. So they finish watching that movie. Stephanie puts on another movie. A movie. Uh huh. So it's just like, she finishes an entire movie. Yeah. Two hours, right? Or maybe 90 minutes if it's an action film. But yes, then she puts on another one. And then they start watching that movie. And as they're watching it, a heavy blanket gets thrown over Tika's head. And this woman starts beating her in the head. She hits her like 10 times in the head. Oh my God. So Tika jumps up. She puts her hands up and she says all she can see is blood. So, uh, and then she goes, and when you're in that situation, all you can think is, I got to go. Yeah. And so she starts running. She gets the fuck in front door. And this is like, makes me so crazy. Like when she was telling it, but it also reminded me of the other baby snatching story that Sarah Brady told in her episode of I survived that I've already done, where she runs to the front door of the woman's apartment building. And it's locked. And as she tries to get it open, the woman catches up with her and grabs her and pull her back. And it's the same thing in apartment. But it's in the apartment where she says she gets to the door. There's a chain lock, a deadbolt, and then the bottom lock. So she can't get all three of them open in time. This woman catches Stephanie, catches up to her, jumps on her. And this woman is twice her size. Oh my God. She says she was really big. And it looks like Tika's pretty petite. Yeah. And they start wrestling around on the ground. She's fighting her off. She's seven and a half months pregnant. She's doing this. And a half months pregnant. So try to remember that throughout. Okay. So while they're fighting and she has a head injury already, she has blood in her eyes from that head injury already. This woman is trying to choke her out. She's Tika's fighting back as hard as she can. But she can't see. And you know, the whole thing, this woman picks up a fireplace poker. Yeah. So if you don't like, if you're squeamish or you might faint in your driving car, or whatever, hit, hit the forward 15 seconds button about three times right now, because this woman picks up a fireplace poker and hits Tika in the head about 40 times. What the fuck? So she at some point during that beating passes out. Steven's like, I can't hit 15 forward. Steven, Steven, Steven just fell backwards and was like, this is my worst birthday ever. Sorry. Sorry. Steven. Okay. So she comes to like two minutes later. Okay. As she feels the woman pick her up by the ankles and drag her down the hallway toward the kitchen. Oh my god. So kitchen, nothing good happens in the kitchen. No, not in this scenario. Then she hears her rattling around in the kitchen, opening drawers and doing stuff. Then she, um, the lady kneels down next to her and she feels a sharp pain in her side. Oh my god. And she looks down and she sees the woman's holding a box cutter. No. Mm-hmm. Oh, squeamish people. You're not going to like when I say she sees the woman holding a box. Well, they've still been pass forwarding past this. Okay, good, good. I'm not going to worry about you anymore. Not you. The squeamers. We have to fucking deal with it. That's right. You guys have to take this no matter what. Steven is holding both his knees in his mouth. Okay. So blood, of course, starts pouring out her side. Oh my god. She said there was blood everywhere. I'm fucking bad. And the woman goes back into the kitchen. This creep me out so bad and starts to pray. So she's saying stuff like, Lord, forgive me, Lord, I'm a sinner. I'm so sorry. Which is like that's straight out of like a horrible horror movie. This is like this should movie carry or something. Yes. Like we need to pray. Yes. Like no, no, you're fucking psycho. Yeah. That doesn't like you. You don't. The praying won't help anything right now with you have fucking box cutter in your prayer hands. God knows you're about to go back to what you were fucking doing. And of course, she does. So Tika can't move. She can't, she's lost so much blood. She doesn't have the energy to do anything. She's laying there. The woman starts cleaning up the blood. She's just scrubbing, scrubbing, scrubbing, cleaning. And then she nails down and ask Tika if she can get up. And Tika says, I don't think so. So the woman picks Tika up, carries her back to the unfurnished bedroom and puts her on a mattress on the floor. And then she takes Tika's cell phone away from her and turns it off. Oh no. Yeah. So eventually, as she's laying there on this mattress on the floor, her bleeding stops. And she thinks, maybe I can talk to her and she'll let me go. Maybe if I, the thing that most people do where it's like humanize yourself. So she starts talking saying, you know, like I guess based on the information she had in the conversation on the car right over, she's like, she talked about her kids. She talked about, she talked about Stephanie's kids. She talked about her own kids. And she basically said to Stephanie, I would never tell on you because I don't believe in breaking families up. I wouldn't want a person to lose their family. Stephanie starts pacing in circles and going. She said she could tell it was working on her because she's pacing and murmuring to herself and freaking out. And at one point, Stephanie says, I gotta get out of the department. Tika's like, oh yeah, really? Me too. Then Tika says, and this is another one of those moments. You're just like, fuck man. She said, but I know she's not just going to leave me there because I've seen her face. And I know where she lives. Shit. So at this point, she has been held. She's been battered and bleeding held in this apartment for three nights. Three nights? Yeah, this has continued over like all of these things that she's done and take care of the room and all that. I wasn't expecting like one afternoon. No, no, no. Like it's like the initial beating and then and night. And she said the first night she played movies all night. And Tika didn't sleep all night. She just stayed up watching the woman. Oh my god. Like because she's obviously like just didn't know what was gonna happen next. So then the third night, Stephanie walks into the bedroom and she's holding a metal bowl full of ice with a rag in it, a rag on her shoulder. She's got six towels and two box cutters and a knife. - No, no. - Why do people use box cutters? - It's so awful. - And the rag on her shoulder, like your mom did that. - That's actually, that's my mom at Thanksgiving. - I know, I'm picturing your mom right now. - Totally. My mom would be fully dressed to the nines. And then she would have the dirtiest dish towel on her shoulder 'cause she'd be like pulling stuff out of the oven. - Right, we call that a schmata. - Oh yeah. - And yiddish. - A little schmata? - That's just like a gross rag that you used to clean with. - That's funny 'cause in TV that we used to always, on the Ellen Show, Andy Lastner used to always say, we need a schmata to cover this. I always thought it meant like a nice tablecloth. - Oh no. - Just like a piece of shit. Just like something. We need to throw something over this. - So throw some rag over there. - Okay, so nightmare time. Anyone coming at you with a metal bowl full of ice, run the fuck if you can run. - That intentions. - There's nothing good at the end of that. Oh yeah. So then, and this is very upsetting. And it also is something that was featured. Did you watch the assassination of Johnny Versace? - No, I haven't watched it yet. - It's good, yeah. - It's really good. I hadn't watched it 'cause of course there was online. We're not sure if we like it or not, which I always then go, oh, forget it. And then someone was like, what are you crazy? It's the best and you will love it and I did. And it's brilliant. But there's one part where he has a victim. And this is what happened to Tika. Stephanie wrapped her tape in her head in duct tape. - What? - So she is, her eyes are covered. Her whole head is covered. She can barely breathe through her nose. - I don't like everything's covered. It's the worst. It's so claustrophobic. - And it's like such a psychotic move. - It's due to someone. - Yeah, it's insane. And it's incredibly dehumanizing. It's like this person that I'm attacking isn't a person. - Right. - It's crazy. And it's something that Andrew Conan did as well. - So not a good sign. If you're doing what Andrew Conan does, I'm not on your side. - In the idiot fail. - Okay, so now it's gonna get worse, squeamish people. If you suddenly thought that you were somehow in a landing place, you aren't. - I did, I'm not. - Now go back to being on your toes. So Tika, this is how she explains it on the show. She just says, she wraps her head in duct tape and then she just starts cutting. - So she starts, Stephanie starts at the top of Tika's pelvic area and just starts cutting upwards. - Fast forward, fast forward, fast forward. This is real life, but she has not the correct tools. It's not like a surgical cut. She's using fucking kitchen knives and box feathers. - Who knows how deep to go? Who knows how I'm in like, how do you do this? - No, this woman knows nothing. And Tika, as she describes it, it's so fucking awful and she's just like, I could feel every cut. She felt every single thing this woman did and she said she was having, she started to have a hard time breaking Tika's skin. - I'm sweating, I'm sweating. - No, it's bad, it's super bad. So she starts picking at it. Then when she opens the skin and she's cutting through muscle, it's like, and she's just laying there feeling it. Now, this was the part that got tweeted. - She's saying this shit on ice or what? - Yes, she's telling the story. - And they're like, leaving all that stuff in? - Well, it's what fucking happened to her and it's what she lived through, she gets to tell it. So, but this is the best part. She goes, this whole time this is happening to me, she's playing the Michael Jackson movie, this is it. And she's going back to the movie and rewinding it. If it gets to like the talking head documentary part, she'll rewind it back to the song performance part and she said she's blasting the music and just playing the songs over and over. - Oh Michael Jackson. - And she said, I'm laying there cut open, even I'm thinking, why is she playing this over and over? And then she goes, because I hate Michael Jackson anyway, and that's the clip that got sent. - Yeah, that's what I saw. I did not realize how horrifying quote was. - In the middle. - In the middle. - And by what was happening. - Yeah, in the middle of that. And also, that's that thing where, and I've said this many times, but I survived. That's that thing about the women or men that are on that show, when they tell these stories, they've been through it already. And it's this proof that you can go through fucking anything and remain resilient and strong and be able to tell your own story. It's what makes me cry every time. And she's like laughing in the middle of it going. And but she said, that was the moment where she saw the big picture of what was happening. And she said, it blew my mind. Like how insane this, like how insane this is for her. So, so anyway, this is so crazy. She shits on Michael Jackson. - All right. - And then she says it like, anyway, like I don't want to get into that. - Like I know everyone's gonna hate me for this. - Yeah, I know that's an unpopular opinion. - Right. - We'll talk about it later. - I hate whoever you want. - Forever. - Forever. - So when she, so of course eventually she here she passes out. But even then what a, like the idea that she was awake for that, having those thoughts, like she's a fucking warrior. - It's crazy. - So when she wakes up, she's on the bed. And Stephanie's laying in a fetal position on the floor in front of the doorway in the bedroom. So she realizes, Tika realizes, she tries to roll over. Like she's like, this might be my chance to get out of here. So she tries to roll over. And when she does, the metal bowl is still sitting on the mattress with her, her wedding ring hits the bowl and makes a ringing sound. - Oh no. - And she freezes, but Stephanie does not wake up. - Oh my God. - So she says, thanks to herself and praise to God, if I can just stand up, I'll get out of here. So she pushes her fucking self up and she says, she said she asked God to give her strength from somewhere to just get her to in standing position. And she fucking does it. - Holy shit. - She starts sneaking across the room. She steps over Stephanie. - Oh my God, oh my God. - Blood drips onto Stephanie. She freezes, thinking Stephanie's gonna wake up and grab her, but she doesn't. So then she steps the second foot over and starts going up the hallway. Now, the squeamish people who thought things were bad before. - Oh no, it's not over. - It's gonna get worse for a second, and it's very bad. As she's going up the hallway, she's leaning on one wall, getting herself up the hallway, halfway up the hallway, the contents of her torso fall out of her. - Oh my God. Oh my God, Karen. - Yeah. Uh-huh. - Oh my God. - She picks up. - No, she picks it up and she keeps going. - What the fuck? Yes, she fucking gets to that front door again, opens all three locks and gets out of the fucking apartment. - Uh-huh. - It's the worst, it's the worst. She starts yelling for help. She starts knocking on apartment doors. Nobody comes. She makes it down the stairs and at the bottom of the staircase, she passes out. - Uh-huh. - Fucking Stephanie comes out the door, sees her down at the bottom of the stairs. Makes her way down, tries to scoop her arms underneath, take his arms to pull her back up the stairs, and Tika starts fucking fighting. She said she bit her fingers, she fought, she screamed for help. Now a guy fucking finally comes down from the third floor, and he's like, what's going on? And fucking Stephanie and her nice, Lilti pretty voice goes, she's delusional, and I'm just trying to help her, and she's fighting against me. - Right, she's covered in blood, I'm dying. - Tika, and she says, and she keeps talking over me, but Tika looks up at the man and goes, help me, she's trying to kill me. Then she realizes the man isn't reacting to the situation, because she's wearing a navy blue shirt, and it's not showing the blood and the shit that's going on under her shirt. So as she's looking at him, she pulls her shirt up, and she said the man yelled, I'm calling the cops, and ran back up stairs. Yep, and so with that, Stephanie looked at her, and this is the way Tika says it in the show, she says she looked at me as if she was saying, I should have killed you, and then she ran away. So now she's just bleeding out on the stairs, and the EMTs and the firemen come. She's got somebody comes and leans down next to her, and goes, ma'am, are you hurt? And she, because she has a fucking shirt on, is making everything much more subtle than it is. And she says, yes, she's answering. Yes, I've been beaten, and I've been cut, and I need help. And then she pulls her shirt up, and this is Washington, DC. I'm sure it wasn't this guy's first day on the job. She said he looked like he was going to throw up right there. She's rushed into surgery, she has emergency surgery. She wakes up from the surgery, as we know, 'cause again, it's called I Survive. PJ is sitting there by her bedside. Oh, PJ. PJ's there. The first thing she says is, is the baby alive. A nurse walks in to come and check on her, and when she asks the nurse, is her baby alive? The nurse says, you gave birth to an eight pound, two ounce baby girl. So apparently, the baby was bulged up way at the top of the womb. So I don't know if that was like, you know, reaction, like a chemical reaction culture upward, or if that's just how she was sitting in her stomach. But basically, they couldn't get to her. Oh, also, I just remember the part that I will not say. But if you think you heard the worst part, you didn't. There was way fucking work shit. I thought you'll tell me after we record. No, I'm mad at you because I read it. I read it and I'm not going to do anything. No, I know. So then in the show, she says, I told them I'm going to name her miracle because-- I was going to guess miracle? Were you really? Yes. She says, I'm going to name her miracle because I survived and she survived. And fucking, you have to look up. I mean, we'll post a picture of miracle. She's got a fucking pacifier in her mouth that says, I hurt mommy. And she is this chubby. She looks like a picture of a baby. And fucking seven and a half months is a big baby. That's a big fucking baby. And she looks like a-- she looks like one of those babies in a target ad. You know those ones, they just sit them by themselves and you're like, it's just this fully formed baby that's gorgeous. That's what miracle sky looks like, her fully. Okay. Tika's attacker's real name is Veronica Duramus, I guess. She called the cops on herself and they came and picked her up. She pled guilty to assault and she sentenced to 25 years in jail. That's a tempted murder. Yeah. Well, I guess they couldn't prove a tempted murder. Because there was all these other stories. Because Veronica tried to tell them that she offered Tika five grand for her baby. And she basically seeded all this doubt. Yeah. Which is so fucked up because it's like, if that was the deal, first of all, you would not take five grand. And secondly, you'd be like, it's a baby. Yeah. And we should be in like the five digit area. But on top of that, you'd fucking have the baby at nine months in a hospital. Right. You fucking all you assholes. Okay, so, so mad. On Monday, January 4th, 2010, 29 year old Tika Adams. Which 29? I tell you what. And it's, she, if you told me she was 17, I would have believed you. Yeah. She's, anyway, so jealous. She faces her attacker in court. She goes to the preliminary trial and fucking when that woman is brought into the courtroom, she looks her in the eye. She brings, she brings miracle to the preliminary trial. They're sitting there and then she fucking mad dogs her as she comes. Apparently, it's very hard and she was really shaken, obviously. But she made a full physical recovery, though, which I cannot believe. It's amazing. So amazing. They must have had insane, amazing doctors, like at whatever that hospital she went to. Totally. But of course, her emotional recovery took much longer. Yeah. Because that's fucking insane. But she brought, oh, I just had this part of the news. So I read an article about how about that afterwards. But miracle was dressed in a pink outfit with matching mittens, booties and booties in a hat. And so, she didn't have to testify against that woman. They were just figuring out if there was enough evidence to bring it all to trial. And at the time, public defender Kim Robinson tried to argue that the attempted first degree murder charge they tried to bring against her wouldn't hold up. Because there was no evidence that Duramus intended to kill Tika. I mean, come on. Two box cutters? What the fuck? Yeah. From the blood loss alone, she would have died. I mean, nothing about it is saying she didn't want her dead. Luckily, Prince George County District Judge Thurman H. Rhodes disagreed, found sufficient probable cause for all charges. And she ended up Veronica ended up going to jail. And her and Tika's father, Greg Brewery Burnett, was also there. And he told reporters, "Tika's my youngest daughter, so I felt like she was trying to take my baby." Which is, I mean, let's all cry for 95 fucking different reasons. And of course, at the end of I survived, as we all know, they make you say why you think you survived. That's like the speech everyone gives. And this is what Tika said. I survived because I was coming to a point in my life where I started to love myself and respect myself and cherish life. And I survived because of God and my support system. I know a lot of people love me and I know that God loves me. And like they say, God looks after babies and fools. And I had a baby and I was a fool. And then she goes, yep. And she cried when she says all this. I can't, she doesn't really cry that much in this. I cried the whole fucking time. I'm crying now. And when she gives the speech at the end, she just has that she's been through everything. It's like she's been through everything. And now here she is, wearing this fucking red blue shirt, looking gorgeous. It's so crazy. That's fucking it. And the last, the very last card that comes up says Tika and her family now live in an apartment in Washington DC. Oh, good. Come on. And that is Tika Adam's story of survival that I've ever wanted. God bless. Once again, Charlotte White. You made it happen. You gave me the idea. Thank you. That was great. Okay, we're back. Karen, any case updates? There are no updates for Tika's case. But it is interesting. I have covered a different attempt at a fetal abduction case, which was the survival story of Sarah Brady from episode 23. But recently Netflix released a documentary titled "Maternal Instinct" that everyone's been talking about. I totally watched it. Yeah. But this fake pregnancy scheme resulted in the murder of 21-year-old Reagan Simmons Hancock. It's a really, it's a really heartbreaking story. I was hesitant to watch documentary because it's just such a horrifying crime. Yeah. But I mean, it is a good show. And that it's like just mind-boggling how someone could do these things. And these women who get obsessed with having a baby, not taking a baby. It's such a strange, foreign thing. But according to the National Center for Missing and Exploiter Children, there were 21 documented fetal abduction cases in the United States between 1987 and 2022. And 19 of those ended with the pregnant woman being killed. Yes. That seems like so much of a larger number than I would have guessed. Wow. Like the Sarah Brady case I thought was a one-off. Yeah. Then the Tika Adams case where it's like, oh my gosh. It was two of these. Yeah. And now it's like, oh no, there have been more than anyone wants to even consider. Terrifying. It's just, it's just crazy. Okay, so let's get into Georgia's story from this episode. And it is the West Mesa Bone Collector. Oh my god, Lexi. I'm Lexi Iwaneo. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. That is wild. The men were just honest about this. There would be so much more peace in the world. Obviously I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Lier. Listen on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't really care. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. They take matters into their own hands. I vowed I will be his last target. He is not gonna get away with this. He's gonna get what he deserves. We always say that. Trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Two Aussie lesbian lovers touched down in 1990s London and become the toast of British high society. One of them touts an exclusive investment opportunity, and soon the money is rolling in. Rich businessmen and England's horse-loving elite fall under their seductive spell. They even meet Queen Elizabeth, but the millionaire duo are concealing a dark past and dastardly intentions. From USG Audio, Blanchard House, and exactly right media. This is Royal Swindle. Listen to the entire series now on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - All right, yes, my turn. - Do it. - Here we go. - Roll up those sleeves, like a member of a gang from the outsiders and really give me this story. - You're just saying that 'cause I'm wearing overall shorts for some reason. - What are you talking about with me? - Georgia's wearing overall shorts, like the most precious little kindergartener I've ever seen. - Here's the problem I saw some Instagram fashion influencers wearing these and I was like, they look so cute. - And I got them and I'm like, oh no. - I am not that. - Are you having influencer envy? - I think I am. - Well, I'd like to say, I think it's gonna be roughly five words to you. - What? - Compare and despair. That's three words. - Okay. - Okay. - Don't compare yourself to other people because then you will despair. - I'm like, I'm already doing that. - No, no, I want it. - Don't compare or you'll despair. - Okay, there we go. - I think they tried to get it down as short as possible. - You know, I'm not comparing. I just also don't think these look good on me. You know what I mean? Like specifically me. I'm fine with it. - I've only seen you sitting down in them. I need to see you mingle around in a party. - Yeah. - But I think you can pull that up. - Yeah, this is, you've got fucking bangs back, pig tails, no makeup with my sleeves rolled up. All right, let me do this. - I'm wearing a shirt that I have worn. I wore it in the video that we posted for the fans. I have worn it pretty much every day since that video was made. It's covered in dog hair. - I don't owe anybody anything. - Listen, I'm going to five words. If it's not broken, why do you need to change it? It's fine, everything's fine. Just like give it a quick lint roll, maybe throw in the dryer, and everything's fine. - Four, five. - Yes, nice. Let's make it, that's the new shirt that you have to wear every day, says that on it. - Yes. - And we'll print the shirt and there will be a dog hair on the print of the shirt so you'll never be able to lint it at all. - Print it into the ink. - Yes. - Cat and dog. - Each one of our pets will contribute a hair. - Yep. - To the printing of the shirt. - George can't wait to donate all of her hair. - And some of her fans will-- - We're going to shave all our pets. Let's do that. We're going to have a video listening up to join the fan cult because there's going to be a video of us shaving our pets. - Oh, you're going to love it. - It's going to be glorious. Anywho. - Anyhow. - Let's do this. - Okay. - All right, this murder. - Or collection of murders. - Okay. - Has a very chilling name. You know this one. It's the West Mesa bone collector. - Oh, fuck. - Yup. - I know of it, but I'm confusing it with all those bodies and Juarez. Like I'm thinking of the Southwest and skeleton. - And the Long Island serial killer, too, right? Like the collection of bodies. - Yes. - That kind of thing. All right, well, I'm just going to do this time. The West Mesa serial killer. - No, you have to do all the cases I mentioned. - Or this is not real. - Buckle up everyone. I'm doing all of them. Or this isn't real. Or this is a different plane of existence. - Or reality is canceled. - Reality is canceled next, next, next, sure. - All right, mid 2005, Karen, Detective Italopez is the only missing persons detective for Albuquerque, New Mexico, which is the largest city in New Mexico with about half a million people in Albuquerque, the rate of violent crime is more than double the national average. - Oh shit, I didn't know that. - Yeah, there's a lot of it. - Isn't Albuquerque like where better call Saul takes place and stuff? - And even before that, breaking bad. - Oh, for real? - Yeah, breaking bad is like, breaking bad really brought Albuquerque to the fore. - It really did. It's a fucking excellent crazy show. - It's so good. - But it does, yeah. - But there's some shit going down in Albuquerque. - There's shit going down like balanced with a kind of suburban normal lot. - It's like a really, it seemed like a really weird city in that it's some really horrible dangerous scary shit going on and right outside the development of the housing development. - Exactly. A people trying to raise, like, you know, any city but double z's in this one. - But I wonder if that's changed since 2005. - I bet it has and I hope people tell us. - Stephen will give us a birthday report about Albuquerque's current crime right after this murder. - We need you to dress up like Albuquerque. This is gonna be like a show and tell for school. - Can I just, sorry, but can I just tell you this really quick? - Are you gonna tell me about how the one country that was left when you had to do your presentation in elementary school was Iceland? - Iceland now. - I will tell you that four times. See, I don't need to hear that again. - When my sister and Nora were just visiting me, there was, we were at-- - Nora's your 10-year-old niece, just everyone else. - Yep. - And we were at Wood Ranch Grill and the kids menu had a quiz of testing you on state capitals. And my sister and I couldn't stop laughing because in sixth grade, when my sister was in sixth grade, she had to get tested on state capitals so she on our family's brand new stereo where she plugged in a microphone that came with the kit. - Oh my God, the first podcast ever made. - Exactly. And it's a cassette tape that my sister recorded and talked into this microphone where she recited every state alphabetically and its state capital and then listened to the tape. So both of us know state capitals because-- - That's brilliant. - Yeah, that's how I learned too, it's just repetition. - Yeah, did you record it? Like that and listened to yours? - I don't think we had those capabilities. - Oh yeah. - In a hard-star household. - We were pretty high-end. - You were pretty rich, Karen. Is that what you're bragging about? - Incredibly rich. If you leave today's podcast with anything, please know that we were definitely the one person. - The killgarrots were my need. - Not in the least, but-- - But we're laughing and then Norstarts testing us on state capitals and my sister knew all of them and I. I was making up cities and I was like, wait, I was just there. I looked at the capital building, like have no recall whatsoever. - You seizured that away a long time ago. - Thank you. - Sorry, I was going to take a break that away, but then I was like, that's not as nice. Something she can't control, like the seizures is nicer. - I think he was like, not an accusation, it's more like, for you, you lost all your state capitals on those seizures. - Yeah. - And you know what, in solidarity, I did the same thing with you. - Did you lost them all? - You induced some seizures in yourself? - No, no, I just don't know the state capitals. - That's friendship. - I know. - Thank you. - You're welcome. - Okay, bye. - Bye. - Okay, let's go back to-- - You just started, I'm sorry, that's okay. - It's gonna get dark. - Not as violent, but dark. - All right, a couple weeks, okay. So, detective Aidelope has this bad ass woman. She, a couple weeks after being assigned to the missing persons department, the only person in missing department, after-- - Which is crazy. - I know, after having an advice and a patrol officer for years, she noticed that women with similar backgrounds had been banishing from Albuquerque. All women were, all the women were in their 20s and 30s with similar looks and arrest records for sex work and drugs, and they had all vanished without word to their families, all of them. After a couple months of compiling a list, there were five missing women with similar profiles. And they were all known to hang out in Albuquerque, which has, as I said, violent crime more than double the national average, this part of Albuquerque, that's the most dangerous part called the war zone. - Oh, no. - So they were all known to hang out there. - No. - I know. What hindered her research was that some had already been missing for over a year due to their transient lifestyle. So by the time their parents and families reported the missing were who were really the only people who would report the missing, they had been used to not seeing them for weeks and months. And so didn't know how long they had been gone for. Plus, since they had no regular schedules, it was hard to track down when and where they had last been seen. And they also supported their drug habit with sex work off of the street. So they would come into contact regularly with strangers that couldn't be like, track down and questioned, you know, that sort of thing. So when Ida, who's a wonderful woman who doesn't, you know, isn't biased for the fact that they are sex workers, she's like ready to look into this. She hits the street to find out if there were any rumors of the women's whereabouts. And when she does this, she hears a rumor that some of the girls had been killed and were buried on the West Mesa. Like this is a rumor going around. And the West Mesa is a vast desert just on the outskirts of the city. So Detective Lopez didn't have much more to go on, but just in case she did collect DNA and dental records from the woman's family is just in case, which of course scared the shit out of the family, isn't it? Yeah, but let's see, do do do do do. But it wasn't really a huge story as it never is. Right, sex workers and people that, quote unquote, have high-risk lifestyles. Exactly. And so nobody but Detective Lopez and the families of the missing girls were really concerned about the disappearances of by 2007, what had become more than a dozen women on her list. I think it's like 16. It's hard to find an exact number, but it's around 16 women on her list have potentially related cases of missing women in the city between 2001 and 2006. So she's the only person who had noticed a pattern, put them together, and it's kind of doing whatever she can to investigate it. OK, so that was 2007. All right. Then in early February 2009, the case breaks wide fucking open. When a woman named Christine Ross, she's walking her dog named Rooka, that's her dog's name. They're near their new build house on the outskirts of Albuquerque in the area known as West Mesa. So Christine likes to take Rooka to an area that was once meant for new housing, but had been abandoned during the 2000s. 2008 economy crash, which we all know about. So all these fucking, do we all know? So all these-- - No, we do. - I mortgages all this fucking shit went by us. All this new construction stopped being built because everyone was like, the housing market's gonna be huge. And then no, everything is wrong. Let's not blame the banks. Let's fucking make poor regular normal people who couldn't afford the mortgages they shouldn't have been given in the fucking first place. All a scam. - It's all a scam, everything's a scam. - Don't watch Adam McKay's movie. What's it fucking called? - Oh, damn it, Stephen. - Look it up. Everything's a scam. Don't buy into it. - The end, okay. - The big short. Is that what's called, will you double check me? It's such a good movie. It's about that exact thing where 10 years ago, we were living in the craziest world. - It's not crazy 10 years ago. - Yeah. - Well, more, right? 'Cause if it was 2007 or '08-- - What did you say? - '18, when's the bus half? - Oh, 10 years ago. - Yeah, exactly. - Yeah, that's the big short. - Yeah, watch the big short by Adam McKay. It's amazing. Okay, I'm gonna watch it. All right, everything's a fucking scam. It's all a lie, the American dream, et cetera. Anyways, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. Okay, so she liked to go over to this area where the housing development had never started. It had been abandoned because of the crash. And she would, it's now a desolate swath of land. - Mm-hmm. - My word's obviously-- - Your word? I'm not a cut-and-past word. (laughing) - And she'd let Rooka off his leash to run around and the desert, hard desert sand, right? So that day, and it's like, tumbleweedy, you know, we can imagine it. - Cow skull, cow skull with a skull on its head? - Maybe, maybe a tiny bit of razor sticking out of the sand. - Well, oh no, shit. - Well, I'm gonna stop talking. - No, 'cause you're not wrong. - Oh no. - That day, Christine noticed Rooka digging. And when she approached him, she realized he was trying to uncover something out of the sand. - No. - And it looked like a bone. But she said, it didn't look like an animal bone. So concerned, she took a photo of it and sent it to none other than her own sister, who was a nurse, and her nurse sister was like, "Yeah, dude, that's a theme or call the fucking cops." - Yeah. So the judges arrived, they confirmed that the bone was human and they begin to process what would become the largest crime scene in Albuquerque history. - Oh shit. This is partly because when construction started for the housing development, the land had been upturned and disturbed. So they were preparing the land for the housing development. - Right. - So because of this, a lot of the bones had been broken and scattered, which is one of the reasons it became a large crime scene. But also, because by the time the detectives were finished processing the crime scene two and a half months later, 206 bones of 11 female bodies and one unborn child had been found buried at the site. - 11? - Yeah. 12 to altogether. - Yeah, fuck. Okay, so as the digging is underway and the media is obviously fucking losing their shit over this, the bones began to be identified and this is the order they're identified in. The first to be identified is Victoria Chavez, who was 26. She was the first woman to be identified, just said that. Victoria's mother had reported her missing in March 2005 after she hadn't seen her in more than a year. So this is the kind of, and as I said, the unfortunate circumstances behind this is because they were a lot of them, I think, drug addicts. They weren't around. Their family is a lot, they were on the streets. - A lot of them run away from their families. - Exactly, yeah. And so, I mean, if you've seen any fucking episode of intervention, you know what happens. This could have easily been me or you. These are people who become addicted to drugs. They turn to sex work, to fund those drugs. They fall into the bad crowd, bad boyfriend. These things happen, you know. - They paint themselves into kind of like a bad corner of me. - Right. - There's all, but there's, it's the thing, and I think I've said it to you a million times where it's that when you are watching a true crime show and the people, the family and the different people say, we knew there was a problem when we didn't hear from her the next day because she would never do that. - Right. - And every time it gives me the chills 'cause I'm like, I don't call my family so much that they're used to me not calling. - Yeah. - And that's how they know I'm a flake and I'm that person, right? So like, there's lots of us that are like that anyway. - Totally, totally. And it's like, you can't underestimate, you can't, we can't understate how addicted drugs and alcohol is when you have a life that you're trying to escape. - Yeah. - Even when you're not, it's just whatever. - Yeah. - The second person to be identified is Michelle Valdez. She's a 22 year old mother. Her father, Dan, had reported her missing in 2005. Michelle had gotten pregnant at 13 years old. Can you fucking believe that? And later began taking drugs and was disappearing for months at a time. After her bones were found, it was discovered that she was pregnant with a four month old unborn baby or four months pregnant. I know. Michelle's family had heard that her friend of hers from the street, they didn't know her. 32 year old Cinnamon Elks had gone missing along with Michelle at the same time. This is before they knew what had happened to her. And they had heard the rumor that Michelle and Cinnamon were buried on the mesa. So Cinnamon's body was the third to be ID'd. And Cinnamon's mother had reported her missing when she didn't hear from her daughter on her birthday in August 2004. - Hmm. So next was Julie Niyato. She was 23 when she disappeared. She had become addicted to drugs at 19. And when her mother last saw her in August 2004, she reported her missing because she stopped setting birthday and Christmas presents to her young son. - Oh no. - I know. It's like the things that you realize are off and why. And that's the last thing you have. You know, it's so sad. So Monica Candleliara had also had a son and was reported missing May 11, 2003. Sheriff's detectives had also heard a rumor that she had been killed and buried on the mesa. So the cops knew about this rumor, but nothing came of it. The mesa was fucking huge. And her case had been given to the cold case unit. Okay, so Veronica Romero's family reported her missing on February 15th, 2004. She had four children. So at this point when Veronica was found or identified, at the news conference for her and Monica, the fifth victim, I did. Albuquerque police chief Ray Schultz. So he'd been holding press conferences as the woman had been IDed. So each time someone's IDed, he holds a press conference, the press are fucking eating it up. He had been making it clear at every press conference that the women had all and had been saying that they had arrest records for drug and sex works. And they had mentioned it early and often that that was the case with these women. And this press conference that he does for Veronica and Monica is the first time in the first press conference where he refers to the women as victims. - The first time. - After how many? - So they're the fifth and sixth to be reported. So I think a couple of them had been announced together. - They were almost making it sound the first four. Like these were just the bodies. - We found the bodies of these sex workers, which is obviously not the word they use. Not the word that is used in any of the articles and fucking the shit I watched, obviously, but we're new to that too. - It's a developing change, but also just that idea that it's the, what he's not saying, but what's imply is, and this is what happens when you live that way. So it's not, they're not victims and we're not, it's not concern. - He's also saying to the community who he knows are gonna be flipping the fuck out and saying to him, what are you gonna do about this? How are you gonna solve this if he doesn't imply that it's partly their fault? So if they just think that some fucking murderer is out there killing these young mothers and these young women, not telling everyone that they lived up this lifestyle, it's quote, high risk. So calm down, don't worry and don't get mad at us. - Right. - So this is, just the first time that they are referred to as victims is so horrible. - It's injustice and it's a disservice to the first four victims. - Right. So Doreen Marquez, she, so this woman's interesting and it's just another, one of these stories that there's so much more to all of these women's background that you can ever imagine and they're not just drug addicts and sex workers. So Doreen had been a cheerleader in high school. She was a devoted mother and she didn't start using drugs so later in her 20s, her boyfriend had been put in jail, her home life went to shit. Not long after at around 27 years old, her family reported her missing in December 2004. So then the eighth victim to be IDed, Salania Edwards, she is different than the rest of the victims in a couple ways. First she was the only victim, not known to have friends and family in Albuquerque. So she wasn't from Albuquerque, her family wasn't there. She kind of had come in randomly from Oklahoma. So she was 15 years old where she had run away from foster care. She had clearly really sad circumstances in her life. She didn't know her dad, her mom died when she was five and she was in foster care. She ran away. She's also the only African-American victim everyone else is white or mostly Hispanic. And it was determined that she was traveling on the i40 corridor, you know, the interstate 40, as a sex worker. And I guess that's known as a circuit girl. Okay. It's kind of that truck stop to truck stop thing of, you know, and I think you also do it with like a lot of a couple other girls. It's not just you alone. Oh, which is interesting. That's smart. Yeah. So I have to do it for sure. Right, but you still go alone with. Yeah, that's right. So then is, and they were hoping that because she was different from the rest of the victims that that might help lead to who was doing this, but it didn't, nothing ever came of it. So Virginia and Clovin was 23. She was reported missing in October 2004. She had run away from home and she was 17 after her brother had been shot and killed. And she had been forced to live on the street later when her live-in boyfriend had been hit by a car and was hospitalized. Oh my god. I know. This poor fucking baby. Her family had last heard from her in June 2004 when she called to say that she had a new boyfriend who had just gotten out of prison and that she was going to marry him. Number 10 is 11, sorry, Evelyn Salazar, who's 23, also a mother. Her family reported her missing on April 3, 2004, and she had, okay, this is weird. She had been last seen about a week earlier with her 15-year-old cousin, Jamie Barrella, who was the last victim to be ID'd. Oh, so Jamie Barrella was 15. She was a high school student and she, unlike the other West Mesa victims, she had no known sex crime or drug arrests and she wasn't known to be in that world, but her cousin, whose body was ID'd with her Evelyn Salazar was. And they were last seen together heading from a family picnic to another park. So, you know, you got to wonder what happened. She's with her older cousin. They, someone pulls up who maybe her cousin from the sex-working trade knows. He's a friendly John. Maybe they go to hang out with him. You know, like, who fucking knows what happens? That opens it up too. And she's like just a high school girl. So it could be, can you drive her home? Also, this, what drives me crazy too, is like, as you said, like, we were both drug addicts ourselves. I think if you pulled most people, we'd find out they were addicted to something. Yeah. So this idea that these sex workers end these, the way drug addicts sounds to the ear, but they've been hearing it for 40 years with this thing of, oh, the drug addict. Right. Where it's just like-- There's no only nuances of what brings you to drug addiction. And how many people are secret drug addicts that are like, well, you can put on your pretty pink, you know, sweater set and go to the mall and just slightly splurred, but you can't add her all drug addicts. And like, yeah, or the fucking oxy-con thing that's taking over the nation, where it's just like, we have to stop making it sound like drug addicts are thrilled to be that way. Right. And they're like, yeah, fucking party on because that's not the case. Yeah. Once you start, that's the whole thing about fucking drugs is a lot of times you cannot stop. Yeah. That's addiction too. I mean, love addiction, sex addiction. All these things where you make terrible choices in your life. And, you know, because you don't deserve to die. It's not you. It's not you anymore. And you know, it's hard to be fucking killed or victimized. No. I mean, yeah, all right. Now I'm talking new in this tone of voice that does-- it's not at me. You're talking to the-- I'm just talking to everyone else listening. So frustrating, they all know. Okay. All right. You're telling Stephen. I'm tired of-- I'm tired of you denying this. Stephen, you're just 'cause you're addicted to Hello Kitty Cake. No. He's been the whole thing. We've just watched him eat the entire thing during this episode. It's impressive. I kind of respect it. Yeah. With his hands. Yeah. It's pretty great. Bup, bup, bup. Okay. So it took Albuquerque police nearly a year to identify all of the victims. All of the women were between ages of 15 and 32. And most were Hispanic. The women had gone missing between 2001 and 2005. $100,000 reward for assistance to the arrest was assistance to arrest them, whatever was offered. And detectives would only give the cause of death as homicide of violence. I think wanting to keep all that should under wraps. Yeah. So here are the suspects. Police started looking for men who live in the area with a history of violence against sex workers. Turns out to be a really long fucking list. Yeah. Of course. They also created a timeline. Using satellite images. So this is fucking creepy and crazy. And you can see this shit online. I'm maybe we'll post it in 2002. They show like the Google Earth image where they show the huge patch of what did I call it? Desolate little swath of land. Yeah. It's a swath. The swath of desert land. And every whatever. Nothing unusual. But then the satellite imagery taken in 2003 shows tire marks leading to patches of disturbed soil in the area where the remains were recovered. So essentially you can track someone driving up fucking digging a ditch, putting a body in and covering it back up. You see these like squares of disturbed earth. In the way that that book I love, no stone and turn tells you how you can find clandestine grapes based on the soil and that sort of thing. Yeah. Then in 2000 and that more tire marks and bare spots showing up in 2005. So they have this image of this timeline of this person going there and coming back. And is that can they see the person or just they can just tell by the topography. It's the topography. It's, you know, snapshots taken. And gosh, there's no cars when they took the photo, which tiny, tiny man. Yeah, right. In 2005, the marks stopped changing. So they think that that's because the killer had to stop using that area because new estates had begun to be built in the area and people would have seen them coming and going. But then everyone's always like imagine if the economy hadn't crashed, they would have just built fucking houses over these bodies. And imagine how many places that that actually happened. I mean, no, let's not imagine. Let's stay up all night. All right. So the two main suspects. Here they are. The first main suspect is a man named Lorenzo Montoya. He lived in a mobile home less than three miles. And it's really like two miles from the burial site up until his death in 2006. Lorenzo was a short but really powerfully built man. I saw a photo of him dead fucking eyes like the deadest eyes. He was in his thirties when the killings occurred and had been arrested multiple times for solicitation. In 1999, he had picked up a 23 year old sex worker who was being watched by the vice unit. And I don't even think she knew. Oh, it were just like, let's track her. Yeah. When they followed the Lorenzo's truck with the sex worker in the car, they followed them to an isolated spot. And police interrupted them after Lorenzo had already sexually assaulted her. And while he was fucking trying to strangle her. No. So he's strangling her and the cops like fucking knock on the window. She says she told police that Lorenzo looked like he was enjoying strangling her. Oh my god. And she was convinced she was going to kill her if the police hadn't intervened. Unfortunately, the case was dismissed because of victim didn't want to testify against him, which is heartbreaking. In 2006, there were reportedly tire tracks leading from his trailer to the site of the dead of the bodies, but I only saw that in a couple places. So I don't know if that's actually true. Right. December 2006, Lorenzo had solicited a 19 year old woman named Shereka Hill via a chatroom to come to his mobile home for a private dance. Once she was in his mobile home, Lorenzo bound her hands and feet with duct tape, then strangled her to death in what police called a brutal or orchestrated and very violent way. But Lorenzo didn't know that Shereka had brought her boyfriend, Frederick Williams, with her for protection. So after waiting outside for an hour in his car, Frederick gets worried, goes to knock on the door of the mobile home. And so this is kind of, I've read two different accounts of this. Either Lorenzo was dragging Shereka's body to his car, or Lorenzo just burst out with a gun. And Frederick, the boyfriend, fucking shot and killed Lorenzo. Holy fuck. Yeah. So and here's another fucking great thing. I was like, can I just say what? Yeah. This is starting to sound insanely familiar. You know that. I know you know this. Right. But we didn't do it. Do we? Don't ever say that again. I don't care if it's true. Maybe it was because we were in New Mexico. And so I read it. Maybe. But it also, the parts of this were covered in the Long Island serial killer, that documentary. That's what it is. That's what it is. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it is. Which is, what's it called again? It was so great. The killing fields. The killing fields. Yes. This is part of that is in there. Yeah. No. I was thinking the same thing earlier. I was like, I don't care. I don't care if she did it. So but here's another. In the article from the time, I was like looking at reading an article, the incident, it described, it's described as Lorenzo having, quote, choked to death, a prostitute at his home, then was shot by the woman's pimp. Like that's how it's described in 2006 in the fucking article. Not that this, not their names, not that she wasn't a fucking prostitute. She was going there as a dancer 19 years old, not that the dude she brought was her boyfriend, who she was just like, come, I know this is creepy, come hang out with me. I just want to make sure I'm safe. Right. Instead, choked to death, a prostitute at his home was then was then shot by the woman's pimp. Like that just implies that it's almost like he's the victim. That's 100%. And also, it's not specific to, like, even the police were like, it was extremely violent. Right. It's like, I don't know why I choke to death sound so much lighter than, like, if the cops are saying extreme violence, why can't the newspapers say it? And then, in all these interviews with the, you know, investigators who now won't say, if you, you know, he's a major suspect or not, they all say, like, well, we would have loved to interview him and we would have loved to have a chance to interrogate him, but we can't, it's almost like they're blaming this guy. Yeah. Frederick Williams is poor fucking dude who killed him and it's like, it just sounds accusatory that if he hadn't done that, maybe they would have been able to solve it. I mean, who pulled a gun, who also had a gun, like, it's just, who just murdered his fucking girlfriend. The attacks, like his girlfriend's murderer. Right. Yeah. So it's just, it's hard. Yes. So Lorenzo's killed the murders stop. Yeah. Well, I feel like we solved it. I think so too. But here's another suspect. Okay. Okay. So police thought looked good for the murders is a dude named Joseph Blay, the LEA. Seven days after finding the first phone on the mesa, a woman calls detectives to say that they should look at her ex-husband, Joseph Blay. She said that they, she'd found jewelry in the house that didn't belong to her and women's underwear. The woman's underwear, like, maybe he's a perv and, like, collects and, like, saves them. Whatever. The jewelry is, like, no fucking one's going to be like, yeah, take my jewelry. Yeah. True. I mean, and maybe he collects that too. There's always to do it, but, like, the combination of the two is not good. Yeah. Never. Listen. Oh, my God. If you find jewelry underwear and duct tape in one duffel bag, get the fuck out of town. Goodbye. Well, here's this. Oh. Fucking piece of shit. The midschool rapist, uh-oh, as he would often break into the homes of 13 to 15-year-old girls who lived near a middle school in Albuquerque and raped them in the 80s. Between 1990 and 2009, Blay had 130 run-ins with police. Fucking hey. 130. He frequented areas that many of the victims were known to hang out. And he was once found by police in that area with rope and electrical tape in his car. So there you go. Shit. There it is. He's got all fucking three. He's got everything we need. In one case, the DNA from a 1985 murder of a girl found in Albuquerque was retested, but not until 2010, after someone else had gone to prison for it and found a match Blay. So the guy who was in prison for it was exonerated. Oh, good. Um, in addition. Okay. And this part is, I don't want to know your opinion on this. So a tree tag from a nursery was found in the area where the West Mesa victims bodies were buried. And it was tracked down to a nursery in California that Blay had once frequented. Uh, to me, that's like, you're in an area of, there's trash everywhere. It's also where there's new building going on, so plants were probably ordered and shipped in. And if it's being shipped in, maybe it's from California, that to me is just like a fucking long shot. Unless it's like buried in the dirt with the bodies. Yeah, but you know, I think if you look at it in the way of, if you're a police person that's processing that evidence, and when you look at all up, and then you're like, Oh, this is from, this is from the Sun Valley, um, uh, Botanical, whatever, oh, it's from, um, what did I want to call my name, uh, a little shop of horticulture or my mom, my mom owns my mom, my horticulture. So once they, when they're looking into that and they're like, they call up and then I have you ever heard of this guy's name and they say, Yes, I mean, boom, you're like, there's no way that's coincidence. That's very true. It's more circumstantial evidence that will keep you on track looking into this guy. Of course. Also, the idea that anybody hangs out at a nursery, the way you phrased it is like, it's his favorite part. It's frequent. Yeah. I frequent this nursery. I just like to touch jasmine plants. That's what I like. I do like to do that. Um, they're very silky, they smell so good. Okay. So he's now around 60 years old and he's serving 90 years in prison or he has a 90 year prison sentence for four of the sexual assaults related way back in the 1980s. Dude. For the mid school rape cases, he's claimed that he's been with several of the West Mesa victims in the past, like had, like hire them as sex workers. He just brought that up. I guess so. Okay. Who knows? The six women from Detective Lopez's list of similarly missing women in Albuquerque are still unaccounted for six six. The last to go missing was Vanessa Reed in June of 2006, just six months before Lorenzo was shot and killed in 2014, Detective Lopez retired. She was like, I can't apparently she did plenty. She did a lot. She vaguenailed it. And so there was only one detective left on the case. But then in 2016, Detective Lopez was like, all right, fine. She comes back to work, putting so many of those down and just tell, fine. She's like, there's a date line about this case and she's interviewed throughout it. And she's just cries. She's lovely. She's just such a clearly a caring woman who just wants nothing more than this case to be solved for the families, for the victims. She cares not, you know, about their history. She's just obviously a wonderful woman. Can I just say to, I think the more women that get involved in police work and all this stuff that we all talk about, that I think people are genuinely interested in, but the more they get involved, and people like to argue of, oh, political correctness, oh, now we have to say sex worker. Oh, now we can't say prostitute. But if you think about it in that way, that the more people get trained to think of these victims as human fucking beings whose murders need to get solved, not only for 100% for the fact that their lives matter, but also because there is a fucking lunatic killing them, targeting them and killing them, like just the concept has to change so that these creeps can get caught. It doesn't come with the job that you might get killed. There are murderers who take advantage of people who are, you know, one would say the most fucking vulnerable. Yes. And, and know that nobody cares as a society, we're trained not to give a shit because of these words like prostitute and hooker and not saying sex worker and not saying fucking victim. Right. Yeah. Oh, we know everything. Murdering those are on the fucking app and they really are and things are absolutely changing quicker than we could know. Definitely. Yeah. So she comes back to work. Detective Loeb has come back to work on a contract basis to investigate the murders partly because they realize how close her relationships are with the victim's families who are so thankful that she's the, you know, cared so much and kept in touch with him and, you know, she's like Aaron Brock of it. She's Aaron's second Brock of it. Yeah. They understand them and just to end about the victims and how they are deemed less important by society to their lifestyles in this 2020 episode to our friend, David Mankowitz. Yeah. You old, so and so. Aida Lopez says, "There's souls no different than mine and they're not any less important to God." Hell, yes, Aida. Aida. So that's the fucking West Main Subbone Collector. I'm unbelievable. Yeah. I also just thought of this too. A couple of people have tweeted us, add us about this. Also Dave Anthony of the dollar. Thank you. Oh, no. Sorry, Dave. The doll up also tweeted at me about this. Not recently and this is going to go under the fucking carpet rug because our democracy is imploding. And so there's lots of other things that keep becoming more important. But recently Trump passed a law that is incredibly dangerous for sex workers saying that they cannot advertise online at the back page. They can't back page it. They can't do. There's a name for this. Everybody should look it up. Because I was contacted or like tweeted out by a couple people talking about how bringing this law and needing to overturn this law is really important because basically if sex workers can't ensure their own safety by knowing that the people that they're doing business with, knowing their names, getting credit card numbers, doing all that stuff. They have a phone number, tracing their phone number. Exactly. It forces them back onto the street. And it puts everybody in a fucking huge danger. And he, Trump called it, it's the allow states and victims to fight online sex trafficking act, FOSTA. And it says it aims to fight sex trafficking by reducing legal protections for online platforms. And it got passed by an overwhelming majority. But privacy and civil liberty advocates say it's a fatally flawed bill that hurts small online communities. And sex workers say it's going to make them less safe because they have to go offline to do this. Listen to the sex workers. They'll tell you what what is right and also the irony of that man passing a bill like this and pretending that he gives a single shit about sex trafficking and sex workers and women in this kind of community. Just please. Speaking about sex trafficking, that is a whole different issue that we 100% know is a big problem. It needs to be addressed. Everything we talk about has ripples and rings bigger issues, but I didn't want since Thanks for basically eating. - Exactly, talking about things. I don't wanna talk about this, first of all, because I hate when we talk about things that might only know half about it, but I think it's important to mention this now, where if this is a concern of yours in any way, you should absolutely look up FOSTA, the Foster Bill, and do what you can to fight against it, because it's incredibly dangerous for such a person. - Great, I'm glad you did that, thank you. - And thanks Dave Anthony, 'cause he, of course, he texted to me about it at like eight in the morning, where I was just like, "Dave, I'm so glad you're on the front lines for us." - He should go to, he did not go to bed the night before we knew it. He's just, he's uprighting a new doll up about, you know. - That's right. - That's right. - Yes. - Okay, we're back. Do you have updates for this case? - I do, actually. On June 27th, 2020, a one-acre park named Women's Memorial Park was opened by state officials on the site, where the bodies were found as a way to honor the women and their families. There is still a $100,000 reward for anyone who has tips that could lead to an arrest and conviction for this case. I just, this, whoever, whatever monster is out there, who did these things, just needs to be caught. - Yeah. - It's so scary. - So now it's time to get into the fucking arrays. - Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. - Oh my God, Lexi, we have a new podcast. I'm Lexi Iwanyu, we're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa de Julio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. - I'm not gonna get any worse than fighting. - That is wild. - Now in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes, - Good taste is my business. - If man were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. - We're gonna talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. - We're best friends, but we don't always agree. - Because you told us how accommodating you are. - Obviously I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. - Don't lie to me. - Don't lie to me. - Don't lie to me. - Lie. - Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, I don't really care. - I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. - Why do some women yearn for Shakira's black hair to make a comeback? And whatever happened to the power couple of my dreams, Mariah Carey and Luis Miguel, I'm Maria Garcia. You may remember me from my podcast, anything for Selena or my divo. And now I'm back to unpack more stories from the present and the past. Listen to "Mui Excited" with Maria Garcia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - And that was the cue, Elvis's meow. - It was the cue. - To go into fucking hooray. - To fucking hooray. - That was Elvis's small hooray. - That's just, it's like a doorbell now. - I think, oh, it's there. - Oh, it's time, Elvis. Elvis was like, shut up. - Oh, the hooray cats here. - The hooray cats here. So we both have a lighthearted dumb one and then I have a sweet one that actually has to do with Elvis. - Okay. - So we want to go first. - Sure, my hooray is for this week. One is, it's, I, it was very difficult week in lots of different ways. And I was spending a lot of time in the morning between like seven a.m. and nine a.m. rattled with anxiety, stress, and rage. - Mm-hmm. - We got a lot of going on right now. - So one of the mornings, I'd had dinner with Lizzie Kuperman who was talking about the meditation classes that she's taking and how much she loves it. - She's so spiritual. - She's very spiritually, she's universally tapped in. - Okay, that's enough. - And I was, so she put it in my head. I'd taken classes about it and stuff. But then, so I was watching the show, Ancient Aliens, which is one of my faves. And it's was talking about how meditation allows your subconscious brain to access the Akashic record, which is everything that's ever happened in humanity ever. And when you can tap into that, you can tap into creativity. And that's how they were talking about spontaneous ideas, how like Alexander Graham Bell submitted the patent for the telephone and the same day someone else submitted the exact same patent. - Why? - And there's all the, you have to watch this episode of Ancient Aliens. - Dude, what's it called? I wanna watch it so bad. - It might be called spontaneous inventions or something like that, but it basically, the theory, their theory, Ancient Astronaut theorists suggest that when you rest your brain and let your subconscious, and they show the guy in an MRI doing this, when your brain rests and you go blank, your unconscious becomes alive and starts actually doing stand because we're fucking AI, we have all the history already downloaded, we just don't ever tap into it. Like it's already all there. - Yes. - I've got the biggest second conspiracy theory bone right now. - Yeah, also they showed people who got head injuries and then when they came out of the hospital, like one guy became a concert pianist and he'd never taken a lesson. There was a guy who could immediately draw these in, he saw mathematical equations everywhere and could see whatever, what like the diameter was. It's so crazy, so anyway. Because of all those things, I started meditating. - Yeah, yeah. - And I've only done it for two days, but it's really great and I've been using an app called the Insight Timer. - I'm downloading it. - You can, I've only, I've done two 10 minute meditations. I normally go super crazy about minute four and I have to get up and walk away. But there, if you start with guided meditation, yeah, I have to do guided, I'm just bananas. - Then you, you're listening and that's the focus. You don't have to sit there going, stop talking to yourself and all that shit that makes you crazy. And you can kind of dip into it and they have guided meditations about everything. Like a million things, guys with British accents, anyway, so the Insight Timer is awesome. - Pulling in says one, that's what I did this morning. - That's awesome. - It was really good, but the other thing that's the second piece to that in my relaxation, I found this show and I'd already heard of it called, it's a British series from, I think the late '90s or maybe the 2000s called the Royal Family, ROI-AL-E. And it is a sitcom from England of just about this plain old family. I can't remember where they live. They don't really talk about it that much. But it's like a half hour play and it is really basic and it's very quiet and it's very real. And it's like, it's a big old high-backed couch and then the dad's chair pulled real close to the TV. So the entire thing takes place while the family watches shooting together. And it is so funny. And the reason I brought up the tea lunch thing is because the mom, whoever comes into the house sits down on the couch and starts watching TV with them and then she'll go, did you have your tea? And then they'll go, yeah. And then she'll go, what'd you have? And then they'll describe what they had. So people are having like, carmbeath hash and all these things, which you think they go, what's fucking tea? It must be lunch. I think it's, okay, I think it's like the brunch. I think it's brunch but between dinner, lunch and dinner. - It's second lunch. - Uh-huh. - Maybe. - Let's find out. - Okay, but we will find out. - Oh, we will. - But if you, here's why I love the show. As opposed to murder, we know we need to take breaks sometimes. Also sometimes-- - Oh, wait. I'm wrong, I'm sorry. They have tea and then they go, what'd you have for pudding? That's right, pudding's dessert. - Yeah, that's right. - Okay. - They talk about that on here. 'Cause she said who wants pudding one time and then she's served up fruit cocktail. - All right. - That's like, what is happening? But anyway, if you want to relax, if you're like a, what do you call it? A brittle file? - Like a straw? - Oh, yeah. - In Anglo-Un Anglo-File? It's like you went and sat in a living room with this family and they're hilarious and they're super mean. The youngest son, they keep making him get up and make tea and they're like, and tonight, go get the thing and he's always mad, he's like a teenager. It's just a very realistic family dynamic and it's very quiet. Everyone talks very quietly, so it's really relaxing. It's called the royal family. - Okay, it's on Netflix. - I love it, I'm gonna do both those things. - Okay, give it a try and then we'll meet back here and talk about that. - Let's have, let's just change this podcast. - So what'd you have for tea? - Oh my god, Corby. - Everyday. Also, just the way she asked the question is that great actress. You've seen this British actress in a million things, she's so fucking good in this part. But it is that thing where it's like, that's what my family's like. - I think they just want to know, too. I think that they always ask you what you had for tea. - Yeah, they want to know what it's like saying, what do you've been doing, but being real specific and then being like, oh, I had this. That pork chop sounds good. Like it's so funny and real. - I love it, tell us what you had for tea, everyone. - Tell us what you had for tea. - When you find out what it is, - My boring one, my ding dong one, you know, fucking hate movies and I'm just like the biggest critic and I hate everything. - Yeah. - I had found so much joy. And then when I watched it together and he also doesn't, not as bad as me but isn't a movie guy. - Right. - Jumanji was so enjoyable. And you talked, we talked about it and it was like fine. And like okay, I'll watch it, fine. What a little joy of a movie. - I laughed so hard I cried. - It was so fun. The rock is just an angel baby. The lovely girl in it was so, I want her fucking hair. She was such a badass. - Karen, her name is Karen, something and she was a star on one of the more recent Doctor Who series. - That's right. - And red hair, Karen. - All of them. Everyone was just the best. I loved it. - Fucking Jack Black playing a teenage girl. - That's right. Oh, I think you mentioned it last episode. - Did I? - And I was like, did you text him and tell him how great he was? And you were like, oh no, we're not that kind of friend. He's a wife. - But you agree. - He was great. - It's so good. It's really enjoyable as someone who hates everything. It made me really happy to. It makes me like it more when I don't hate it 'cause I fucking hate everything. - The shape of water. What are you talking about? That was the most atrocious, weird, fucking beastie-ality movie I've ever seen. - My thing was, and my friend, the most hilarious comedian, Naomi Ekpergen, she goes, she goes. So she just falls in love with them automatically. What's the backstory, is he from a river? Like, she started and she wasn't crazy funny. She was so pissed off. - He also didn't hit on her. He like moved her tank top sleeve, which he doesn't understand what that is. - Yes. - And then she fucking takes advantage of him. I thought it was a little bit, I just was really upset. - It's like so many romcoms where it's like, you don't know why they like each other. So why is this the great love of all time? - Why do I care? - Oh, I did like Lady Bird. - Oh yeah, so I haven't said that too. I thought that was a really, really good movie. - Oh good. - The sweet thing, I'm gonna leave y'all on a sad, happy note. Okay, there's someone in the My Favorite Murder Facebook, which is now, you can now go to the, we have a fan cult on My Favorite Murder.com. You can join our fan cult. There's forums and shit you can talk about. Stuff, her name's Amy. I don't think she wants me to say her last name, so I don't want to. - Okay. - Her name's Amy and she wrote this last week. I drive my daughter three and a half to four hours, twice a week to teach therapy. Most of my commute is accompanied by Georgian Karen. - Oh no. - As the main episode ended today, my three-year-old yelled from the back seat, "Elvis, I love him. He's my Elvis." - Elvis. - Yeah. - Okay, good, 'cause you were looking at me. Definitely a heartfelt moment. We thought talking might never come with her disorder, but even sweeter that she loves Elvis. - Oh my. - So she doesn't speak and she yelled that. - Okay, sorry. I was confused because I pictured that the speech therapy child would be older. Like for some reason, I cast her as a 10-year-old. So when you said the three-year-old, then I was like, "So it's an unsweetened." - We thought talking might never come with her disorder, but even sweeter that she loves Elvis. And then the emoji cat with hearts in its eyes. - And she yelled about it. - Do it. Do you know how much I love this? - This cat. - Yes, I know. - Actually, exactly how much you love that cat. - So knowing that means like so much. Like that it's Elvis makes me so happy. - Well, now you know there's a three-year-old that loves your cat as much as he loves you too, sweetie. - He is a good boy. - He says a good boy. - He knows it. - He's like, "I am having a certain feeling. I can tell something's about to happen." - He fucking knows when we've blathered on too long. - Yeah, he's like, "We're now at the seven hour mark." - Oh my god, it ladies. - Okay, we're back. - That's quite a set of her aes. Just all over the map. - Did we drink that black coffee that day? I bet we did. - I bet we had a little sip too. - You had a little sip, you said? - Yeah. - Okay, so this episode was originally entitled "Reality's Canceled." If we were naming it today, maybe we would call it. Trick ankles. - Still true. I can only wear flats. - I love that. - Well, Georgia did one of her classic puns. Instead of saying paper mache, you said paper moth-shave because it was one of the threats. - Let's see, the pun cult, of course. - Also pass over egg mistakes, that's a good one. - Well, I mean, what a great episode. - Yeah. - This week's episode of "Rewind," it's that easy. - Thanks for listening to this episode of the episode. - Yes. - And the commentary on the episode of the episode. - That's right, we'll say goodbye from 2018. - Oh, no. - Well, thanks you guys for listening this week. - Thank you for listening. If you listen, you guys are the best. - Look, look at me. - We love you. - Thank you, love you. - So stay sexy. - And don't get murdered. Bye. - Bye. - Elvis, you want cookie? - Ah. - Lisa, tell them about our new show. - We have a new podcast. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. - Welcome aboard season six of The Girlfriends. Flight or fight, which takes place 30,000 feet in the sky. - It was the most sexist job I think you could have. - Until one day, a group of stewardesses spark a revolution that reshapes America. Listen to The Girlfriends, Flight or Fight, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Hey there, everybody. Amy Robock and TJ Holmes here from the Amy and TJ podcast. We are your one stop shop for the biggest news making headlines of the day. We've got you covered. - Yeah, there's a lot of news happening these days and some of it's breaking. We are on top of it every single day. There's a bunch of true crime going on out there as well and so much of it dominating on social media. We have our eye on it all. - Listen to the Amy and TJ podcast, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.