Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 114: Civic Order

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karen and georgia this is the show where we look back on our old episodes with all new insights case updates and pop culture buzzwords today we're rewinding to episode 114 which we named civic order this episode originally came out on march 29th 2018 let's get into it the intro of episode 114 welcome to my favorite murder that's karen kilgaris that's georgia hard start and this is the podcast that tells you what it tells you it tells you what kind of the worst things you have to do to get it right into your ear hole it just says it right into your eardrum yeah so if you're laying in bed at night trying to get something to fall asleep to this is it i had a dream that tenacious d broke up am i wrong that was out of the blue literally a picture just passed through my eyes in my brain a picture i must have fallen asleep in front of something that informed my dream yeah i hope they didn't i mean they've written nine songs about breaking up yeah maybe that's probably what it is i watched some a weird rerun or something oh you know what i was gonna do um this is a new corner okay because it's not a correction but i did i i listened to the last week's minisode and in thinking about the story of the man that was laying under the movie theater seats because of course we much like the women had happened to were shocked and surprised that there was a man laying under their movie theater seats for an entire movie yeah but so we were laughing and stuff but i did want to underline if that ever happens call the police immediately don't wait for movie theater employees to call the police don't wait for permission to call the police yeah you call the police immediately because the person that lays under movie theater seats is only going to do weirder and more fucked up stuff afterwards totally so i've i felt bad after i heard that because we were laughing so hard they did say in it um that they talked to the manager and ultimately we called the police yes but i think they were just so shocked by it exactly yeah as were we yeah and i didn't call the police either we didn't i no i actually on the relist and i called the police i called burbank police i just wanted to say that like sometimes weird thing is not you don't have to be touched or assaulted in any way that that deserved a police call for sure they should have felt 100 great doing that definitely yeah i just i guess i don't know maybe that's too random but i wanted to underline it like you've been thinking about it holding it in now there it is if you don't know what like um civic order a behavior violates you can still call the police if you feel weird yes they'll get the book out from the shelf the civic order book they'll pull it all down and then get into their police cruiser sure come help you okay now we have to have a different corner okay that it's been asked of us they're getting back together they're getting back together is that tenacious oh i love tenacious tenacious um okay we have to talk about this wild wild country corner oh fuck can people yes watch it everyone guys let's update a couple things we heard about the lady's body that was found in the wall years later yeah thank you amazing story combined everything we we got a lot of tweets about it yep all the way up to and including this documentary that is incredibly done beautifully done brilliantly done did you watch the whole thing no no uh me neither can i finish it can i tell you something you don't like it i find it kind of boring why do i hate everything you always say that when it's the thing i love i know we just think it's because you think you need to do point counterpoint no if i love it you have to find something wrong with it when did i know your opinion of it well because i already did it as a story so yeah but i thought your story was interesting listen i do think sheila though i could just listen to her talk for hours she did say one thing that was a joke that one you know she said to someone i was watching it last night trying so hard i was i watched episode one and vincent are both like wow this is so boring and then i was someone else was like it gets better so i was like okay i'll jump to episode three so i go to episode three and i'm like okay i'm going to and it's still boring but she does say to someone in a news report that you know well what do you say to the people who blah blah blah and she goes tough titties no it's just like wow that's who i want to be i mean she really is kind of a great villain i don't know i like i like a lady that's just like bound and determined yeah i just want it to be about like i guess i don't totally understand what the cult is about like all they're doing is fighting people but without any like not fighting for they were you know they were fighting for um he was really into like sex there was a bunch of sex stuff and then there was you know there were kind of like buddhist concepts basically where it's like love yourself and love your fellow man carry an ak-47 around with you everywhere you go i mean because they started getting yeah i think i mean i i you know it's it was just a it was a cult why why would any spiritual leader have was it 37 rolls royces i think 37 is the right number but like that that was his goal and dream and then they made that happen for him like all those things there's no uh logic isn't a big no it's not like heaven's gate where they're like here's the thing we believe in there's this and there's this and we're gonna get on fucking the hailey bop and get the fuck out of town and our human you know like they had like rules and things but it was it you know is that it was out of that tradition that that would happen all the time gurus would right gurus this was the person to listen to this guy was smarter than regular people right everybody that's a human trait we love to think there's one smarter person that should tell us everything and we'll just do that and then that'll be fine yeah because whatever we're doing isn't working yeah and that's a great concept that's completely fucking full of shit because no one knows anything also some people don't look good in maroon fucking take that shirt off dude although there were some insanely hot 70s guys in that documentary yeah there were some very good looking 70s people who had left their families to fucking like the chick the australian chick who was just like i was bored and i did this and that and i'm like i bet her kid has so many fucking uh issues now yes your mom just got bored of you in her life in later days to fucking it was so again yes exactly they were like i you know what i need to do this for me yeah that's super selfish like late 70s me generation yeah yeah where everyone was like this is i have to prioritize myself right so i'm gonna get divorced and leave all my children behind it's like okay that's why helicopter parenting is what it is today oh because all of us kids who who were left for maroon fucking maroon fields of yeah southeastern oregon now we're like my mom did it wrong so now i'm gonna do it this way i'm gonna do it so right yeah i am your shadow caleb and guess what you're gonna hate your parents anyway that's right if they're not there you hate them if they're always there you hate them it's real hard to get that english just right on parenting no yeah it doesn't work take it from us we don't have kids we did the smart thing and did neither we parented neither way i was always like how could i have kids when i am merely a child yeah oh what was the other thing oh well this is just incidental okay but i'm i feel like people like a nice dentist update right always it's because it's really the rags to riches story of me being so afraid to go to the dentist and now i can't stop going to the dentist every time we talk to each other i'm on my way to the dentist right i love to be like sorry i'm stepping into the dentist office um but so it's like your agent like i have to go to my dentist office today my highfalutin dentist office um so again i went to visit my dentist but i wanted to tell people this because the reason i didn't go for so long was because i thought that i was phobic of the Recently, and before I started going again, my friend Paige Hurwitz, whose parents were doctors, told me that lidocaine, which is the novocaine that they shoot into your mouth. Like the numbing shit? The numbing shit that gets shot into your mouth. If you are allergic to it or have a sensitivity to it, your blood pressure drops. And the blood pressure dropping is, in me, the same feeling of starting a seizure or starting a panic attack. Holy shit. And I had it in the chair and went, oh my God, this is what she was talking about. Where I felt like I was falling backwards, even though I was already laying down. And I was like, whoa, whoa. And my hand went up really weird, but he didn't notice, thank God. But I was still wearing fucking Oakley blades. So it's not like I looked great or anything. But basically, if you're afraid to go to the dentist or you have panic attack type feelings, it could be because you're allergic to lidocaine and you can ask them to give you something different. Well, shit. Like heroin? You can get a heroin shot into your eye and then you don't feel anything. Shots in your eye. For like eight hours. No, it's worth it. But I just like, once I learned that, I was like, oh, this could have saved me like six years worth of like stress about the dentist. Not going to the dentist. Avoiding it. Or when I used to go, I would be so freaked out. I was like, couldn't stop. I would hold my breath the whole time. Oh my God, yeah. It was really weird. Freaked me out. Fuck that. That's my, you know what that is? That's like a PSA. Yeah. Yeah. The more you know about your teeth. Glingle, glingle, gling. Gling, gling, gling. The more you know. Oh, well, should we talk real quick about our announcement? Our big surprise. Our big surprise. We've been sitting on this one. Guys, we have lots of surprises. We have. We have lots of them that we just can't talk about yet. Yes. But we have like four that are going to blow doors once we can talk about them. Really exciting stuff coming up in the future. Everybody. But in the meantime, the one we can tell you is that we are, we finally have put together a fan club of sorts that we're calling the fan cult because fan clubs. It's a fan club. Yeah. So that's going to happen soon. And we'll. We'll tell you more about it in the next couple of weeks, but it's going to have like. It's actually happening in like 10 days. Yeah. It's happening very soon. It's going to be very exciting. We'll tell you more next episode, but it's going to be like a exclusive merch that you can't get and access first access to buy tickets to the live shows and then like a message board and cool shit like that. Pictures, you know, video type stuff. We're just like shit. We're actually getting our act together and putting a thing together for you so that if you care to have. If you want to have some next level interaction with this podcast, we're going to give you some stuff. Yeah. There's going to be a live video feed at Karen's dentist appointments from we're going to get her hot dentist to put a camera or maybe you should have the camera on your head and it's just filming the hot dentist. So you can see when he goes, can you turn your head more to the right? It's I'm constantly trying to turn away and close my mouth. So he's constantly trying to tell me to open my mouth more and turn my head so that I'm not basically turning my back on him. On the appointment. Well, they'll know that soon. I mean, it's exciting. They get and then I'll have a live feed. I'll have a forehead camera on my forehead for when I take naps. Perfect. So you can just see Mimi sitting next to me sleeping. I mean, this is show business people. This is what you look for in entertainment. There's going to be a Stephen camps, a mustache cam on Stephen. It's a tiny camera like in Honey, I Shrunk the Kids that travels through Stephen's mustache and has adventures. That's right. It takes weeks. And there's a creek. It meets new people. That's right. There's goblins. Yeah, there's cats, tiny, tiny, miniature cats. Oh, we have to talk about the person that drew the cartoon when we said that Stephen's inception was he just grew out of the carpet. Oh, my God. Do you? You don't have that person's name nearby, do you? I think I might. I think it's on our MFM. You sent it to us. Graham, a very talented person whose name we're about to say, hold on to your butts, everyone. You get who it's a race. Stephen and George are both looking at Dylan, the girl. Fuck you, Stephen. Dylan, the girl. Dylan, the girl made an inception like cartoon of us, of Stephen inception of us freaking the fuck out while Stephen grows out from the carpet. It's pretty hilarious. It was real good. Thank you. Thanks, Dylan, the girl. Also, someone and I'm sorry because I'm not I'm looking at my phone and I won't race. I won't race the way these two do. Someone made. Did you see that photo? Photoshop where they put the Kate and Kate and Leo from Titanic into a single. It's real good. That's recent. Everybody's been there's been lots of fun interaction on Twitter lately. Yeah. Well, Instagram, too. Yes. Yes. Instagram is also a great social media. Don't forget mine. What's going on over on Instagram? Check in verified, which means just as that little blue check. Oh, that's good. Yeah. And that means that. Yeah. You can get cash anywhere in the city. No, it just means that you're better than your kids. You went to high school. Oh, good. And do you email them and let them know that? Oh, it lets them. Instagram lets them know on their own. It gets sends everyone into high school with a notification. Great. And then it also sends everybody your social security number. Right. Because that's the new thing. Right. Well, you don't need your social security number. You're a higher being who doesn't require government stuff. You're no longer defined by that number. Exactly. So it's like here you can have it if you want. And now, like, it's up for grabs. I just, in my mind, had to tell myself three times not to say my own social security number. I'm not. Isn't it like standing at the edge of a cliff and being like, don't you're not. Don't fall for it. Don't fall for it. Do not do it. Don't blurt out your social security number right now. Like we're going live. I know. Right. The live show. That would be actually. Do you think we could do that one day, Steve? What? Go live. You're crazy. No, I'm not. I mean, we could do like a Facebook live. We could do a Facebook live or even through the new fan page. That wasn't fake. I swear to God. I think that would be hilarious. We're at it. Fun. Also on the fan cult, there's going to be a Facebook live. We're going to do once a week. Shut the fuck up. No, we're not. We're going to come to you every morning. 5 a.m. Steven, can you edit this part just so we have it so we can play it to Karen every time? She's like, who the fuck made this decision to do this when I'm laying on my couch? Like, I'm not coming to that. George is like, no, no, no. This was all your idea. Yours. You did this. You. You did this. You took the camera out of Steven's mustache and put it directly on us live. That's what she wanted. Come on, everybody. I do think it would be cool if we could have a hotline. A hotline? Jesus, you're just adding so much. Just pick up a phone every once in a while and just maybe there's somebody there. Like, let's go to. I feel like we could do like one. We could do. We could do a live hometown read episode or to put up on the fan page. You mean like I grab this microphone and run downstairs to find somebody on the street? No. I man on the street. No, we just read from a page live. Where? On the face on the camera. Listen, I'm going to get this together and I'm going to make it make sense. Bring it to me and make me see it with you. I see it here. I just don't have the hair. You're not coming out here. Not. Someone said they want to play. Words with friends with me. And I said, but I think that that they were being mean because you just want to attack a little bit. That was an attack. You know, you're going to win. You took them asking to play a game with you as an insult. Yes. Yes. I can't. Even when I, I've, I used to play Yahtzee with friends or with buddies. Um, but I hated the idea. Every once when I'd play with a person, I didn't know just whoever was on there and it creeped me out so much stranger. I don't like that idea. It's creepy. You're not supposed to talk to strangers, especially with the Yahtzee words. No spelling your words with Yahtzee. No. don't yahtzee with strangers don't yahtzee with strangers no what was that supposed to be don't talk to strangers don't yahtzee to strangers yeah you know what i mean no take it out do not this is why we don't go live guys this is steven this is going to be the one you don't have to edit yeah watch this watch this here we go we start practicing now yeah no more edits yeah can't even imagine shit well we do it live on live shows all the time that is true and we just knock those out of the park every single time when there's a baby in the audience oh my god you guys there was a baby in the audience at the la show it was a noise that we heard we stopped and we looked around it was like you and me it was like me i think that was like i think we both at the same time kind of went is that is that a baby and then just someone raised a baby up oh over their head lion king style totally lion king style and it was just this cute little oops i just hit mimi in the face oh i'm just sorry uh lion king style and this baby was just staring at us and you and i then just both lost our minds trying to get the baby to smile at us in the most obnoxious way in front of 2700 people you'll hear it and then the baby was la live yeah it was quiet the rest of the time chilled out chilled out cool that was a chill baby but it was weird and crazy and creepy you know and we're back if we were marking time by documentaries yeah this is the wild wild country era of your life what was that like do you remember yeah i wouldn't have guessed it was that far back but yes right eight years ago yeah those duplass brothers they love doing just like random things all over the place they'll do it all and they'll do it all over silver lake that's right that's how they do it this is when the fan cult was born oh that's right oh my god that's right i forgot that it had a birthday it just seems like it was always there with us i know it's that's so funny or it's like well there's enough people to do it it's like it's where we should start a little club that people would actually pay to be in a little club with us yeah thanks guys thanks for everyone who's ever joined the fan cult we started a fan cult so no one can ever take that away from us come at me we have a discord sorry we're grownups that's one step too far karen oh this was the show where i shared the information that i was having panic attacks in the dentist chair and then it was actually that i was being given novocaine and i should be given lidocaine and i should be given lidocaine and i should be given lidocaine is that like i don't know why like finding stuff like that out when you're an adult seems so either rare or just weird that no one ever figured it out before yes kind of infuriating like how why couldn't we get this onto youtube in the first iteration of when the orchestra collapses right right after that you could have just come out with a little piece of information did it change anything for you oh yeah i mean everyone's seen my gigantic veneers that i've had and love it's one of my favorite purchases but yeah i mean i started going to the dentist all the time because i was in that chair just solved it it just solved i well it's so much work to do my old teeth anytime anyone wants to talk about veneers looking fake i'm like great i love how fake they look because my teeth before look like i was a character in les miserables it was fucking insane one was chipped in half they were yellow yeah they were short irish teeth come on no you're i don't think your veneers look fake at all there's times when i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my we're podcasting and I feel like I can't get my lips around my veneers. Well, me too. And they're real, but that's because they're so big. Mine are just big, you know? I mean, the challenges. Truly. It's so hard for us. And still, we started a fan cult. And still, we persevere with the fan cults. You're welcome. There are good videos there now, too, by the way. I think everyone should know that we're like not half-assing the videos we put up weekly. No, remember those unboxings? Yeah, I love unboxing, but it got a little unpredictable. It wasn't very inspired. We have to have like a little game. That's the fun of it. What are we doing? Totally. There's fun games now there. There's like fucking years, eight years of videos and all kinds of things there now. All kinds of things. That's fancult.supercast.com if you want to check it out. If you want to hear the secrets. If you're in that season of your life where you're ready to hang out. If you want to handle a fan cult, then check it out. Okay, let's get into your story because it's a fucking banger. It's one of the big ones. So let's get into Karen's story about the Hillside Stranglers. Starting a business can feel like one giant project made up of approximately 4,000 smaller projects. Make your work 4,000 times easier with Shopify. Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide from major household names to small businesses just getting started. Their templates and tools get you a stunning site up and running fast, no coding needed. Everything you need is in one place. You can manage your store, checkout, and other parts of your business from one platform. Shopify checkout makes buying easy and returning customers can check out in just one click. Shopify's built-in assistant sidekick is there to help when you have questions, need to troubleshoot, or aren't sure what to do next. Because Shopify handles the setup and checkout, you have more time to focus on growing your business and the tools. If you're ready to hear the of your first sale today, head over to shopify.com slash murder to start your free trial today. That's right. Start your free trial at shopify.com slash murder. That's shopify.com slash murder. Who goes first this week? Karen Kilgariff. Also, the alienist is now over. And I would just like to say, to everybody involved, great fucking job. I watched every episode twice. That means George, I thought it was boring. I'm going to binge watch it when I'm going to make myself sick and I'm going to binge watch it. Do it. A hundred percent because outfits are amazing. I want to be able to talk to you about it. God damn it. I'll talk to you. Okay. I won't stop talking to you because of this. Dakota Fanning rules it. The whole idea of it. At one point in the last episode, she, she walked up to tell the police chief something. She's like the first person, the first woman to work in the New York police department. I don't think it's based on a true real person, although I could be wrong, but she walks up and she is wearing like culottes. She's, it looks like it's supposed to be pants. It's supposed to be like a long dress, but then you see that it's actually pants. It's the coolest thing. That's very subtle. And I was like that fucking costume department nailed it hard. That'd be a fine costume. Department to work in. Probably. Huh? So many vests, so many best highest shoulders you've ever seen insane shoulders. So much crazy. Like it was a fascinating. Yeah. Well, well, we're supposed to watch it and then we'll talk to you about it and then we'll all gather up. We'll meet back here live. We'll do a special. It'll be great. Meet us live here. Yeah, we're doing this. We're in fun going fully Regis and Kelly on this. I swear to God. I'm in. I mean, it's going to be a disaster, but I love a disaster. Listen, Betty White started her career by doing morning television in LA and they used to do morning television for five hours. Holy shit. So they'd go on the air, whatever, at 6:00 AM and then go off the air at like, and whatever. Plus somewhere around two. I don't know. I don't know. That's all. That's what you get with live live shit. So this is all you now. It's interesting that you started talking about the LA live show because, and hopefully, um, well, I made a mistake at the live show in Los Angeles as we talked about. I was nervous, um, but I had planned up until right before that I was going to do the hillside stranglers and then I changed my mind because I was like, it's so awful, awful and dense and details is very dense. The details, whatever. Um, so I switched it, talked about an awesome woman. Uh, you'll hear when you do it, whatever. But I actually told the audience I was going to do it and change my mind why I would do that. I have no, that's like one of the great rules of performance. You don't tell people what you're not going to fucking do and give them the opportunity to be like, Oh, I wish you had done that. You told them you weren't going to do the hillside strangler and then instead you're going to do some woman that they had never heard of. And it was just like, Oh, the baby was like, I'm the, I'm out of here. The baby was like, I paid good fucking money to be alive. Um, I mean, I was talking about like the first city editor of a newspaper. It was great. Now I'm getting defensive. Uh, anyway, I took all my research and now I'm doing the hillside. How come neither of us have done it? It's crazy. It's you know what? I think these ones that this is one of those ones, the cops didn't pay attention because the first three victims were sex workers and runaways. It's that thing that we, that happens in all of the common denominator in these stories is people making a snap judgment on the value of a woman's life and then deciding whether or not they deserve to have their murder prosecuted. It's like so frustrating. It feels so layered and shitty. Yeah. And here we go. And that's what you tuned in for. Hi everybody. So this, um, from October, 1977 to February, 1978, the city of Los Angeles and most of Southern California was paralyzed with fear. Women were being murdered and brazenly. I wrote that dumped in the Hills of Los Angeles. Um, many times in full view. Now that's the thing I didn't really understand until I started looking at pictures and researching for the show that I didn't do it at. Um, truly like it was this display and it was so fucking creepy and crazy. And oftentimes in the later, especially in the late 90s, it was like, Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't in the later ones, they would be dumped in the middle of like a neighborhood. So like one, one of the victims, the guy walked outside of his house and sees a dead teenage girl naked and splayed out. And he went and threw a tarp over her because he's like, the kids are going to get come be leaving for school and come and see this. So you destroy evidence, but it's, but it's for, it's for the good of, well, I mean, just because it's like, what the fuck is going on? And like, this is, it's so extreme. And so, and this was in the late seventies and we've talked about those other murders, like the freeway killers. Remember when there was, um, it was either two or three freeway killers at the same time. Like just, there was so much. Yes. Yeah. Um, and so then this, this started happening. Um, geez. So, uh, their bodies were found. I don't know why I wrote this like synopsis paragraph. I probably spent a really long time on it too. Um, so, basically when we're talking about the hillside stranglers at first, it, they, the media was calling them the hillside strangler cause they assumed it was one murderer. Right. Um, but secretly the cops knew it was two because they were seeing where these bodies were placed and they knew that not one man couldn't be lifting, carrying or placing these bodies where they ended up, but they didn't release that to the media because they knew that that, that would help them later on. Right. Um, um, but when they did find out who it was, it was, it was, it was a couple of cousins named Angela Buono and Kenneth Bianchi, two of the worst people that have ever existed. Absolutely. Just simply that trash people. It will. And I remember, uh, a while ago, we're starting to read the true crime book about the hillside stranglers and the details with which they described what happened to these girls and women in Angela Buono's house. slash upholstery uh fucking shop are so upsetting and insane and extreme i stopped reading the book it's there's there's sadists yes it's torture it's they tortured all of them and they and angelo buono especially he's like the son of fucking satan and yeah and coulter i couldn't think of a bad woman bad enough bad enough that works um i think it works he he was and okay so he's born in 19 october 5th 1934 um he was obsessed with sex from a young age and he there was problems from the beginning uh he obviously had a lifelong hatred of women um he uh had a criminal record by the time he was a teenager for a sexual assault um doing things like pulling down a girl's underwear bragging that he had raped um women when he or girls when he was 14 oh my god like he was he was fucked up um when he was 17 he married his high school sweetheart he had his high school sweetheart yeah how is that the word sweet yeah it doesn't really how about just the the woman who's the girl who stuck around him with a girl that got like it's almost like you know when ricky ticky tabby when the snake goes up and you're hypnotized by the eyes i think that's what it is sure it's that thing where you're like oh my god this worthy italian is paying so much attention to me oh he just hit me in the face oh wait now he's sorry he wants to marry me yo yep i would love to get married um the magazines say i should yeah uh okay so he um basically he abandons his high school sweetheart after uh and and her and their unborn child thank god for her once he finds out he knocks her up yes exactly then he marries a woman named mary castillo again domestic violence issues um then and not until he rapes their two-year-old daughter does she leave him and then she goes back to him after that what the fuck then at one she eventually finds herself he's he handcuffs her and holds her at gunpoint and then she finally leaves him but it's like that's why i couldn't read the book i was just like this is who are these fucking people what the fuck why doesn't a big truck ever hit that guy seriously i mean it probably has like i bet there's a lot of people who have died that like were those people that super deserved it yeah it's like the end of the lovely bones when the killer just don't don't don't you're right you're right read the lovely bones though it's fucking incredible it's such a good book such an incredible book it's such a good book um and i'm not a bad movie oh yeah that's good movie um okay so uh two-year-old a two-year-old it's so filthy and and like and he's just pathological yeah um so of course he becomes a car upholsterer in 1975 what else are you gonna do with this fucking stupid idiot i mean think about that too when you have to be an upholsterer it's all that like punching and ripping wait doesn't tom sibley's hometown was also a person remember it was the guy that made patio furniture and like the weird tools and stuff yeah that was like a way in way back episodes yeah the guy the guy killed his mother that was a crazy story but it reminded me of the same thing careful of upholsterers sorry the upholsterer the murderino upholsterers right now are fucking they're crying they're fucking calling 9-1-1 this is not a this this is not a thing to call 9-1-1 no please just email steven he loves to hear from you okay so that's angela bono he's the older cousin he's definitely the cult leader in this two-man cult of fucking terror i hate his guts he's really disgusting okay and when he has like when he when he looks like an old-fashioned uh you know brooklyn grocer in some of his pictures but then he grows this fucking handlebar mustache and he it's satanic he looks like the most evil person on the planet he's like this is he the tall skinny one no he's skinny he's skinny he's anybody's smaller okay bianchi uh kemp bianchi the younger cousin was the taller one okay okay and he was born may 22nd 1951 he's 17 years younger okay he's definitely like a sad sack follower yeah so he was abandoned by his mother who was a sex worker and an alcoholic he gets adopted by the bianchi family um he's troubled all his childhood bedwetter until he was a teenager so a violent tempers compulsive liar and of course because he fell off a jungle gym when he was six it is leaving him with a head injury frontal lobe damage and they think that had that basically affected his personality yeah so that's quite the combination is you're the sadist older cousin and then the kind of like maybe could have been fine right but then uh bad influence yeah definitely was not and and it's like influence but also just the perfect opportunity yeah yeah exactly there's nothing like that thing where like someone gets an idea and you know you shouldn't do it but if they're into it you're like well then fine i mean it's that weird like look i've got this older cousin that just right loves to be the devil um okay so he was he wasn't that smart easy to influence and uh he had he'd already um had a failed marriage he tried to go to college he wanted to study psychology he drops out after a semester no shame in that buddy hey i've been there he also was obsessed with being a cop oh yeah um but he was rejected because of psych tests he failed psych tests um and he had a girlfriend named kelly boyd so he basically in 1976 he in beginning of 1976 he moves from rochester new york to la to um to go live with his older cousin angelo they don't have a lot of money so they get the idea that they're going to become pimps and the way they're going to do that is they're going to go out and they're going to kidnap a couple of runaways and basically make them be sex workers for them so they do that they actually find um two teenage girls uh one's named sabra hannon and one's named becky spears and they take him back to um angela's apartment and they're like this is what you have to do now they're being pimped by those two and becky meets a lawyer and she tells him what's happening she tells him the situation and he helps her escape get out of the city and when she goes then um uh sabra then has the guts to then run away herself so they they get away oh my god um so uh they then impersonate police officers and kidnap another runaway they put her in the girl's bedroom they set it up um to have her be their next sex worker uh and they buy a trick list from um a sex worker named deborah noble so this is basically a bunch of dudes names who frequent um sex workers so that they can get a hold of people directly and basically start their own pimping empire fucked up time man yeah super gross noble now here's the thing they uh so deborah and her friend yolanda washington go deliver that trick list to angelo's apartment in uh october of 1977 but when they go to use it they find out it's fake oh so they get furious of course they get into their car they go try to find um deborah noble and they can't find her but then they remember as they're driving around to find her that when they were talking to yolanda that yolanda told them that sometimes she works because she was also a sex worker she works on sunset boulevard so they go down there to find her and they do find her um the next night october 18th 1977 the body of yolanda washington is found on a hillside in forest lawn cemetery what that's like right there uh-huh it's yeah close by also she's naked she's posed in a grotesque lewd position she's got literature marks strangulation mark ligature marks on her wrists um strangulation marks she'd been strangled with um like a rope around her neck and they determined she was raped she's a 20 year old woman oh my god um but when they call when the police arrive um one of the detectives on the case is detective frank salerno oh shit and frank we've talked about frank salerno a lot he went on after this case so he worked this case um and he was in a car accident and he was in a car accident and he was in a car accident um and uh and then when it was over uh and what six years later whenever when the um night stalker case started he also he took what he learned and from the mistakes that they made on the hillside strangler case and it helped him catch the night stalker um he also was assigned to the natalie wood drowning oh shit and there's a lot of controversy about obviously we all know about that about the night stalker and he was assigned to the natalie wood drowning and there's a lot of controversy about obviously we all know about how the that report came through and how it was like it was found to be a drowning and nothing suspicious and all that it's really interesting he's like it's the the timing of him being a detective on lapd is so crazy yeah is he like in the center of everything so so two weeks later november 1st 1977 around six in the morning a homeowner in la crescenta this is what i was talking about um and la la crescenta is 12 miles north of uh los angeles and he's like don't you live there oh shit sorry edit that up seems like um no no just even do you want to say where you live isla south pasadena oh okay um have you ever thought of moving to la crescenta i mean i want to hear about it though it's great it's um it's a little uh kind of upper middle class neighborhood it's nestled right into those foothills um the um are they foothills or are they regular hills i don't know um okay so two weeks later on november 1st 1977 around six in the morning a homeowner in la crescenta um walks outside of his house and sees the dead body of a 15 year old girl laying on the hillside across the street from his home um so he goes and covers her body with a tarp because all these kids are about to leave their house to go to school um and soon they identify um the the victim as 15 year old judy miller she was a runaway sometimes sex worker in hollywood and she also has ligature marks on her wrists her neck and her ankles um and so now they know they're she's bound and um she was murdered somewhere else and bound somewhere else um and then dumped in this second location and this is detective salerno when he is looking at judy's body he notices a a piece of light colored fluff on her eyelid and he pulls it and saves it for evidence later and this was like i think before like really intense forensic testing but he was like this must be a clue and that kind of detective work that he did on this is the reason they eventually were able to make the case yeah once they found them okay she was judy was last seen alive october 31st 1977 she was talking to a man in a large two-tone sedan on sunset boulevard eventually what everyone finds out is that's the car that angelo and ken uh ken bianchi used to drive around in oftentimes um telling people they were undercover cops or or detectives and um and they would basically go drive up and down the strip and arrest girls saying they're bringing them in for solicitation oh my god handcuff them get get them into the back of the car and then kidnap them and take them to angela's house ew yeah so they of course he's they're getting these people that they they're going will willingly because they think they're in trouble yeah um so uh they tell judy that she's being arrested for solicitation they take her back to the upholstery shop she's raped tortured sodomized and strangled five days later on november 6 1977 another naked body with the same ligature marks is found on chevy chase drive near a country club in glendale oh my god i think i know that i think i know that country club it's on that weird turn chevy chase and what oh yeah it's like in glendale yeah um i mean i don't know exactly where so the night before elisa caston is she's a 21 year old wait waitress at health fair restaurant on hollywood and vine she leaves work at nine she's driving home she gets pulled over by two plain police officers no such thing guys right they handcuff her tell her that she needs to be taken in for questioning and then uh the next morning her naked body is found there's evidence of rape um but she's found on the other side of a tall guardrail and that's when police first observe they're like there's no way one guy because she based on like the size of her body they're like one person couldn't have just like lifted this over easily and that's when they were like pretty sure that it was a two-man um killing team wow um so the next thing that happened which is interesting um 24 year old four-year-old catherine laurie baker um who is the daughter of character actor peter laurie oh my god um with the big eyes who's in the movie m if you've never seen the movie m it's really amazing and he plays a serial killer in it it's it's a great fucking old movie and he's a really famous character actor like there's a bunch of old like those old bugs bunny cartoons that would have remember when they would do episodes where there would be caricatures of like old famous people so it's like clark gable and lauren bacall yeah peter laurie is in those cartoons he's the guy with the really big eyes that kind of is like oh he always like oh anyway love him so they fucking try to pull the we're fake cops show us your id you're arrested scam on catherine laurie baker but when she pulls out her id like she's looking for a wallet they see a picture of her sitting on peter laurie's lap they see that she her name is catherine laurie baker she says yeah that's my dad and they let her go because they're big fans of peter laurie the fuck up yeah and later on she was um interviewed and she told the interviewer that when she was talking to them she was not they were there was nothing about them that was scary yeah she said it was a casual conversation that she got no bad vibes off of them whatsoever which creeped me out really bad when i read that the next on november 10th they find another body in franklin canyon um north of beverly hills it's a um she's identified as jill barcom she's a 19 year old she just moved to la from new york city um she had been a sex worker in new york city um but she'd moved to hollywood and her body showed the same ligature and strangulation marks she'd also been raped and this is when police are now are sure that they have a serial killer yeah so that was november 10th eight days later on november 18th the body of a high school student is found on pico boulevard it's eventually identified as 17 year old kathleen robinson um who went to high school she lived with her mom in hollywood and she had last been seen the day before at the beach then this one's so i mean they're all terrible but on november 20th 1977 a nine-year-old boy finds the bodies of two girls in a trash heap on a hillside near dodger stadium oh my god it's so horrible um 12 year old dolly cepeda and 14 year old sonia johnson um a week before they had last seen been seen a week before getting off the bus on york boulevard at avenue 46 um which i think is right in eagle rock yeah and um they they had walked up to a two-tone sedan that had two men sitting inside of it um and the bodies when they were found had been a week later so they had decomposed but they could still police could still tell that they had been strangled and raped on the same day that those bodies were found hikers um on a hillside uh between glendale and eagle rock find a naked body of a dead woman um who's identified as 20 year old christina weckler she's a quiet honor student at the art center college of design um she also has ligature marks on her wrist neck and ankles but unlike the other victim the police noticed she has two puncture marks in her arm and she was found dead on the same day that those bodies were found that they later find out um she had been injected with windex while she was being tortured by them at some point what the fuck um and they would also come to learn that christina was kenneth bianchi's neighbor oh no okay so then three days after christina's body is found a body is discovered in near the los feliz off ramp um of the 101 so there's pictures of uh or the five the five sorry the five what the fuck um that's the i've seen that picture it's and it's like right it's right there i mean if you were driving by you would have seen it driving by yeah it's so crazy and awful um and i mean jesus it's i drive on that freeway i never i'm not on that freeway i know i spend all my time on that freeway oh my god um so the severity of the decomposition of that body prevented authorities from being able to tell if she had been raped or tortured so okay so they put her out and she was in decomp already because someone would have seen it earlier no they she had been missing uh-huh so they but they found the body there so they're with the picture from what i remember the picture i saw there's like a bunch of ivy and shrubs yeah so i think she was underneath that but just enough yeah so that just people didn't see it so they put her out and she was in decomp already because someone would have seen it yeah sadly you can look up all these crime scene photos um they're very upsetting and there's a ton of them because it was they're like the police crime scene photos are on the internet yeah and it's also strange because they all look the same yeah it's like a bunch of men in suits standing around and a little body and little naked body kind of in the distance it's just insane um so it turned out that this was the body of 28 year old um evelyn jane king she'd been missing since november 9th so she had been gone for like two weeks over two weeks so this is when they start the task force for the hillside stranglers singular okay so it's 30 lapd officers the sheriff's department and the glendale police department all coming together um to catch this killer um but still the police don't reveal that they know it's two men yeah they let everybody call it the hillside shouldn't they tell people that so that you know women can be a little more uh you know i bet today maybe they would have and they but i bet you they were trying to do they were trying to like be prepared for when i know they're caught and nobody could get they couldn't get out of it pick something else i mean yeah maybe because well it's just the thing the the thing to me that's so disturbing is that thing of impersonating a policeman having two of them which is what that's actually much more believable totally for people who aren't impersonating policemen totally it's it's it's it kind of put it shouldn't but it puts you a little more at ease that there's two people there yes you know even if they're like for for whatever reason not even just for fake cops just right but the fake cop thing pisses me off so much it's so unfair that and the when when someone accidentally like rear ends you quote unquote accidentally and then you have to get out of your car and yeah that those are such fucking dirty tricks i hate it so much it's really awful and also it's just such a strange thing to think back when there were only pay phones so like if you had a fucking emergency if somebody rear-ended you it was raining it's the middle of the night you're in your car and then some dude walks up and like knock knock knock get out of the car you couldn't even go hold on a second let me just make sure the cops come here first there's nothing you could do that scene in zodiac when he when he puts her fucking tire back on or whatever and then she starts driving and the tire comes off i i've watched zodiac probably 10 times i skipped that scene because it's so scary it's the best scene in the movie whoever it is does such a great realistic job of like what'd you fucking do yeah get her baby with her yeah okay so less than a week later so also you have to think about this too these things are just keep happening i know it's so quick it's so quick it's so intense these guys are like you know um they're berserking yeah it's that i think they call it they say it that on last podcast on left it's like they're gone into berserker mode totally um and i have listened to this one on last podcast on left i just it's been a really long time since i've heard it so i'm not copying you guys marcus um less than a week later november 29th 1977 another body of an 18 year old girl is found um her name is lauren wagner she was a business student she lived with her parents in the hills in mount washington um she had ligature marks on her neck ankles and wrists she also had burn marks on her hand the police knew immediately she'd been tortured and then morning after her body was found her parents found her car parked across the street from their house with the door ajar so they go knocking on the neighbor's doors to find out if anybody saw anything yeah and the woman who lived in the house um where the car was parked uh told them that she had seen lauren's abduction so she says that she saw two men one was tall and young the other was older and short with bushy hair and she had heard lauren cry out you won't get away with this and she didn't call the police i guess not oh yeah that's i mean that's the other thing too where then easy to say in retrospect yeah i know but you'd always want to be like just even if you're not sure call the police yeah but what could you not be sure about well because it could be teenagers like this is the 70s there's like it could be teenagers smoking pot and fighting and joking it could be a girl fighting with her boyfriend like it's just such a people were i think much more disconnected and like unsure nobody was thinking although it is pretty far into this fucking series that you don't just go hey yeah since this city-wide fucking panic is happening okay um but sorry i'm sure that lady is racked with that's that's a life record by itself yeah um okay so i don't mean to witness shame her no please god so then december 14th 1977 so um like two weeks later basically the body of 17 year old kimberly martin is found in a deserted parking lot near city hall downtown the body's naked shows signs of torture um the police discovered kimberly was a sex worker who had recently signed up with an escort agency so she wouldn't be getting john's off the street because of the hillside straggler oh honey and they called her agency and she was the woman dispatched just like they called the agency the the cousins called the agency and what the fuck and and got her and then tortured her and killed her oh man what a like oh i can only like picture her being like fuck man she's she's being careful she's like actually is aware yeah and taking measures to do something about it um they when they go to the police station they call the police and they call the police and they call the police and they go to the apartment that she had been dispatched to the address it's um empty it had been broken into the final victim was found in los angeles on february 17th 1978 uh so it basically basically a two-month that's it rest period oh yeah okay two months um that's the longest it's been so far okay a helicopter pilot spots an abandoned orange dachshund on the angelus crest highway and when they go police go and investigate and they find the victim and they go to the the body of 23 year old cindy hudspeth a part-time waitress and student is found in the trunk she has the ligature marks she's been raped and tortured and then her body was stuffed in the trunk of the car and then the car was pushed off the cliff um and she was also a neighbor of christina weckler uh-huh the an earlier victim and therefore a neighbor of kent bianchi but nobody actually looked into that any further and pretty soon after the hillside strangler task force was disbanded i know because they they thought it was slowing down or stopping and i'm sure financially that's that's always the thing they say yeah around the same time february 1978 kelly boyd who is the girlfriend of kenneth bianchi um the two of them have a son and by uh they have a son in february and by march she's like i'm leaving you i'm going to move back in with my parents up in washington state i don't like like you're going to move going out all the time and you're never here. You don't help me. And so I'm leaving. in you and he tries to get back together with her and she basically says after three months she's like fine but you have to move up here with me kenneth bianchi moves to bellingham washington and basically thinks he's gonna like put all that behind him and start a new life he gets a job as a security guard he earns the trust of his employers um he's trying to be a family man and he it's still he it doesn't work so he has the murderous urges still he basically um lures on january 11th 1979 so he's you know been up there for like less than a year he lures two women 22 year old karen mandek and 27 year old diane wilder to an empty house under the guise of giving them jobs as house sitters and he rapes and murders both of them um and then he fucking goes home that night his girlfriend kelly later says it was like it was just a regular night he came home he asked me about the baby we watched television and we called it a night what the fuck but he was so clearly angela was the brains of the team yeah because kenneth bianchi was arrested for these two murders the next day oh my god it was like they tracked yeah directly back to him immediately so when he's arrested that and this is kind of the famous thing about kenneth bianchi and you can see all of these interview tapes online and it is so fucking ridiculously stupid he tries to plead insanity and he tries to claim that he has dissociative identity disorder and multiple personalities basically oh jesus and so and that it wasn't him that committed those murders it was his other personality right so basically he gets interviewed by a psychologist and then displays these personalities the first personality is ken he's the nice guy and then eventually steve comes out and steven steven is the murderer he puts on a big fake mustache now he already he actually already had a very steven like mustache shit i'm just saying something to consider steven so a bunch of psychologists watch these tapes a famous one named uh dr martin orn they watch these tapes and they're just like he's a hundred percent faking yeah like there's there's no question so he agreed uh he admits he's faking he agrees to plead guilty and testify against angelo in exchange for a more lenient sentence they do not give him a more yeah so like you're gonna do all that and then you'll get what you're getting a fuck yourself yeah this is his confession is they bring him back to la and thus begins a trial that lasts five years holy shit one of the longest in history wow um to be on that jury right i mean so 450 witnesses two years worth of testimony alone god um angelo buono's trial ended in 1983 the presiding judge ronald m george said this to him i would not have the slightest reluctance to impose the death penalty in this case were it within my power to do so ironically although these two defendants utilized almost every form of legalized execution against their victims the defendants have escaped any form of capital punishment but the jury brought back um multiple life sentences because they didn't want them to escape by just being killed yeah they wanted them to go to jail and suffer oh wow yeah kenneth bianchi was given two life sentences and he's still serving them out i was gonna say one of them out both of them out um in the washington state penitentiary angelo bono died of a heart attack in 2002 um where he was i believe they gave him nine back-to-back life sentences and this is just an interesting tidbit while kenneth bianchi was in jail in 1980 he started a relationship with a woman named veronica compton she was later convicted and imprisoned for attempting to strangle a woman she had lured to a hotel in an effort to convince authorities that the hillside strangler was still on the loose bianchi had given up her life and she was given her semen that that she smuggled out of jail to plant at the scene who's semen um to make it look like somebody else's right to make it look like it was the work of the hillside strangler oh my god yeah and so she tried to kill somebody to prove for her jailbird boyfriend what a psychopath yeah and so what happened it they got caught she was convicted of of doing that did she kill someone or did and she was in prison no no attempted attempted okay yeah no she got caught what the fuck i mean there's that i already i thought went on so long but like i have barely scratched the surface of the crazy fucking shit you definitely if you want to hear the good stuff i 100 recommend that you listen to that last podcast on the left series of the hillside stranglers guys please make good choices just make the basics of good choices in life what like what like don't pull over for the police no like don't let don't date a dude who's a murderer in prison and then don't take a cup of semen from him and try to murder someone and plant it don't do that it don't if somebody can't make good plans that's not even at like a good yeah three-step plan like we're gonna do this it's gonna have this definite effect yeah like every there's so many variables in that plan alone yeah and also why would you unless you're you're just a killer in waiting yeah why would you agree to kill somebody just to try to get your boyfriend out of jail totally i mean i guess you love him so much no no no no he's not even your high school sweetheart he's not your real sweetheart if he's asking you to murder he's not your sweetheart he's disqualified from the sweetheart yeah yeah don't fall for it call 9-1-1 one of the sloppier presentations i've ever given no it was great what are you talking about i just because there's so much i know detail in it um you can do part two nah nah i've done what i can thank you that was great thank you thank you for informing me um it's my pleasure it's what i like to do okay we're back karen any updates there are some in 2023 during his detention uh kenneth bianchi changed his name to anthony d'amato his most recent parole hearing was in july of 2025 he was denied he's eligible again for parole in 10 years he claims his confession was made under hypnosis and has challenged his conviction multiple times remember the hypnosis tapes no i need to go back and watch all this stuff he was pretending to be crazy and it's such bad acting that's right it like breaks you out into a sweat because he thinks he's doing amazing and it's so corny yeah anyway in january of 2026 mgm released the docuseries the hillside strangler about the case and it featured new on-camera interviews with kenneth bianchi where he maintained his innocence do you think there's any way like i get so silly and naive when it comes to these things where it's like what if but there's just no way no because remember then he went up to uh seattle to the suburbs of seattle and was a serial rapist final point his release date is set for 2025 when he's 114 years old literally so that's the end of the hillside stranglers good now let's get into george's story about the murder of dana bradley much like laptops and ice cream getting too hot can ruin everything especially when you sleep luckily tiami mattresses are designed to keep you cooler and more comfortable all night with a tiami mattress five layers of foam and pocketed coils create a naturally cool supportive mattress finished with a 90 organic cotton top layer you use your bed every day give yourself sleep you love with tiami you have 100 nights to decide plus 35 off that's a thousand dollar value exclusively at tiami.com slash better sleep t-i-a-m-i beautifully designed for better sleep goodbye let's be real we don't all have time to keep up with the latest fashion trends some of us want to look stylish but have someone else to do the shopping that's where stitch fix comes in their expert human stylists get to know your lifestyle and budget so they can pick pieces that actually work for you stop shopping and get styled today at stitch fix.com slash murder to get 20 off your first order that's stitch fix.com slash murder goodbye this podcast is brought to you by squarespace every successful small business starts with someone saying i wonder if people would actually buy this squarespace gives you everything you need to find out from consultations to events and experiences you can showcase your skills with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business with squarespace's collection of cutting-edge design tools anyone can build a beautiful professional online presence that perfectly fits their brand or business get paid on time with professional invoices and online payments plus streamline your workflow with built-in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools head to squarespace.com slash murder for a free trial and when you're ready to launch use offer code murder to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain goodbye this is a sadly typical story that has some crazy twists in it okay that i had never heard about until i read one of our hometown murders oh wow yeah and then i was like well that's fucking weird so this is the story of the murder of dana bradley okay so saint john's is the capital and largest city in newfoundland canada and it has the lowest homicide rate in canada wow yeah i was gonna first of all i was laughing because i was like what if you just pronounced that wrong newfoundland i thought newfoundland what if i did too it's newfoundland i think i think it is no no no i was laughing because i don't i know mispronounce that but my friend uh so i have two friends um sorry um my friend paul greenberg and his wife jackie are from canada and jackie used to make these jokes she used to she's hilarious and um she used to do impressions of they call them new fees and it's people from newfoundland and she'd always go oh no i'm burping my face in a chip fire and apparently that's a real thing that happens and not just in newfoundland but i think around canada a chip fire you make chips you make french fries at how at your house after you've been drinking all night in the bar so really drunk people go home deep fry french fries pass out and light their house oh my god very common thing apparently to to newfoundland specifically but let's not pin that on them entirely but that's how i'm familiar with let us know newfoundland i i have no point of reference and that is now my point of reference and i love it it's all i have so now it's all you have i'm going with it sweet okay until we hear from everybody from newfoundland exactly let us know let us know and you will okay so here we are in saint john's it's um december 14th 1981 uh 14 year old dana bradley she's like a typical grade nine grade nine grade nine student she's pretty good friend friendly full of life she loves this art she's just a normal girl um she leaves her home her friend's home she'd been hanging out there after school and she was headed home for her mom's birthday party uh i know and she goes towards the bus stop which is a few minutes away from her friend's house it's on top sale road it's one of the busier roads in town and uh she was going to take the bus home but it's possible she either missed the bus or just didn't feel like waiting for it because so two brothers who were taking a break from selling christmas trees on the road um they're hanging out in their car at tim hortons we've been there we've been there in canada yeah that's right um i don't know if it's anywhere else but i think it's lots of places okay great around so it's around 5 20 p.m they see a young girl hitchhiking while they're on their truck it's about 25 or 30 feet away from the road they didn't know her but they they remember her because they remarked on how young she was to be hitchhiking but even though hitchhiking was kind of a normal thing especially a small town like this back then um according to the brothers they saw a car pull up it was a 73 to 76 four-door dodge dart or plymouth valiant it was beige tan or faded yellow with noticeable rust marks and a male driver offered dana a ride she got in and they drove off and the brothers were the last people to see dana alive so because dana had phoned home before leaving her friend's house to say she was on her way home her parents and family were immediately like something is going on um they file a police report but of course nothing can be done that night because that's how it always goes but uh it's hours and days go by and dana is not seen or heard from and her parents know something is wrong she's not the type of girl who would run away four days later on december 18th 1981 in a remote wooded area off a dirt road just outside st john's um this couple and their kids are out looking for a christmas tree to chop down oh no i know and uh the dad spots dana's body about six miles away six miles away from the road where she had been hitchhiking dad sees the body thinks it's a mannequin of course so dana's autopsy shows that she died from numerous blows to the head with a blunt object and was sexually assaulted but a weird thing is that dana had been found fully dressed in her school clothes even though she had been sexually assaulted and had been laid out carefully uh burial style so like placed very neatly with her arms over her chest and also her school books had been tucked neatly under her arm oh no like that's like staging yeah like almost lovingly placed her there it seems right so because of the way she was laid out police thought maybe that uh the killer was remorseful that that was you know him trying to kind of make it better yeah so they made an appeal to him through the media the murder didn't come forward but the brothers who had seen her get in the car did and they also told detectives about how the driver had to reach over to the passenger side door to open the door from the inside like almost like something was wrong with the outer door yeah so that was another point of that that car that they had and they were also able to give police a good description and they got a police sketch two other witnesses came forward saying that they saw the car and a man emerged from the woods so they saw the car by the side of the road and a man emerged from the woods the night dana disappeared between midnight and 1 a.m where she was later found and they said the passenger side door of the car was open and that the dome light was illuminated in the car and they reported that the man had no jacket despite being in the middle of december and freezing so the search for dana's killer became the biggest murder investigation in newfoundland history as well as one of the biggest in canadian history at the time in the first week 800 cars were examined that matched the description of the car that had picked up dana and there were 250 prime suspects at one point but nothing seemed to pan out so finally though five years later in 1986 detect detectives were able to find the Detectives received an anonymous note saying the murderer was an ex-con with a violent past named David Somerton, and he really strongly resembled the sketch. So they bring him in, and he confesses to Dana's murder. He told them where his car that he used to abduct her was and where the murder weapon was. And he also described how he killed her, and it was consistent with the facts. So police searched for the murder weapon. It was near where Dana's body had been found. He said he had buried it. And police had thoroughly searched the area before, but they went back, and this time they removed trees, and they dug up earth and stuff trying to find it. But they never found anything. They also went to the local dump where he said he had left the car, but it wasn't there either. And all nearly $1 million were spent digging up. And searching those two sites, but nothing surfaced. Wow. Then this dude, Somerton, recants and says he only confessed after having been interrogated for 18 hours. Oh, shit. And then at the time of his confession, he was on heavy medication. And so then he denied any involvement with Dana's murder, and the police didn't have the evidence to hold him any longer. But he was charged with public mischief and sentenced to two years in jail for misleading the RCMP. Oh, shit. Good old Mounted Police. So, before you feel bad for him about that, though, years later, he was convicted of sexually assaulting a minor in two separate incidents. So, this guy's a creep, too. Just coincidentally, not the killer, but still a really bad guy. Maybe, yeah. Fuck. Yeah. So, another man was sentenced to nine months in prison in 1982 for making cruel, harassing phone calls to the family, to Dana's family. But otherwise, the case kind of. This didn't go cold, because they wouldn't let it go cold, but there was no other real clues, but they kept getting tips and stuff. The person who makes harassing phone calls to a murder victim's family. Who didn't do it. is as bad as the killer. Uh-huh. There's. You are psychotic. Yeah. Disgusting. Uh-huh. Who. What the fuck? Yeah. But people. Make good decisions. Pick up that phone and actually call 911 on yourself. That's the best decision you can make in that point. I am a piece of shit. What kind of terrible shit has had to happen to you for you to be the harasser of a murder victim's family? It's just beyond. Totally. I know that's a surprising stance, but I'm fucking standing by it. But it's like, who's worse? The murderer who then makes the calls? Or just some dude who. Who fucking didn't even do it and then makes the calls? I mean, they're both bad, obviously. They're all in the shithead fraternity. Right. In my opinion. Absolutely. But it's just like. It's not a prank. No. I hate prank culture. Yeah. I just fucking hate it. Pranks. Life is hard enough without someone pulling a fucking chair out from underneath you and videotaping it. Oh, God. Please, Lord. The biggest fear. No. That one? That one. The chair one? No. Just being pranked. Yes. And videotaped. And videotaped while pranked. That's not funny. It's just mean. Nothing's funny. Okay. Nothing's funny. All right. Let's cut to 2014. It's been 33 years since Dana was murdered. Oh, fuck. R-C-E-M-P. They're contacted by a man. who uses a pseudonym to protect his identity named Robert. He tells them that he witnessed Dana's murder and the events that followed. Whoa. At the time, 33 years before, he was six years old. Uh-oh. He tells them that two years before that moment, after a lifetime of alcoholism, he quit drinking. Once he quit drinking and his mind started to heal, he said, memories resurfaced. Oh, no. He first had memories of being sexually abused by this dude who was a close and trusted friend of his family. And then the memory of that man murdering Dana resurfaced. Oh, my God. So Robert's story is that the man, so his name is The Man, we don't. Yeah. He's anonymous. Yeah. Was driving his father's car that day. His dad had. As a six-year-old? No. The man. The molested man. Sorry, sorry. Let's call him The Bad Man. Great. Okay. Robert says that The Bad Man was driving his father's car that day. It was a 1972 Dodge Dart. Uh-huh. And that Robert was in the backseat of the car. They were leaving McDonald's on Top Sail Road, which is where Dana got a ride from. Right. When the man noticed Dana hitchhiking. Robert confirmed that his father's car had trouble with the passenger side door and that it had to be opened from the inside. And from the backseat, Robert had told him how to open it. Holy shit. And Dana got in. Okay. This is true corroborating story facts, right? Here we go. Okay. Sorry. This is gonna get solved, isn't it? Please. So, here we go. Before you call 911. Okay. Nothing seemed unusual as they made their way to her house. But when she pointed out which house was hers, then The Bad Man kept going. And that's when panic set in. And Robert said it set in in him, and he could tell it set in in Dana as well. Dana tried to jump out of the car at one point, but The Bad Man grabbed her and sped up and kept telling her he was going to turn around. He's like, I'm gonna turn around. Don't worry about it. But eventually he pulls off the road, and Robert remembers that The Bad Man kept telling Dana that he just wanted a kiss. Ugh. And she was crying and fighting him, and then she either scratched or pinched him or did something to hurt him because Robert remembers him, kind of jumping back. And at that moment, Dana bolts out of the car. And then Robert remembers and how insanely quickly it was that The Bad Man ran after her. Ugh. So, Robert says he got out of the car at this point, too. This six-year-old's like, what's going on? And by this time, The Bad Man had caught Dana, and they fought to the ground as this six-year-old's watching. Ugh. Robert said he stood near the car and watched as the murder and sexual assault took place. He said as a six-year-old, he wasn't able to understand what was happening. He said the murder weapon was the tire iron from the car, and that then when it was over, the man put Dana's body in the trunk and drove towards where they were going to leave Dana's body and along the way disposed of the tire iron. The Bad Man. Do I have to keep calling him that? I mean, I can follow it now. The man dumped Dana over an embankment, and then. And then he retrieved her body, realizing it was a bad place to leave her. Ugh. And brought it to where it was ultimately found. So. Then Robert says, quote, and he was trying to get me to leave because he said her mom and dad would be looking for her, and he told me that she was going to go to school the next morning trying to get him to come away, and Robert was, like, crying and didn't want to leave her in the forest. He was scared. Oh, my God. This is horrible. I know. And then Robert says, so the man says that we have to leave her here. Her parents are going to come so she can go to school the next day, and then Robert says, well, then she needs her books. Oh, no. So the man goes up to the car, gets her books, and puts them under her arm because the six-year-old is like, we need to give her her books back. This is the fucking saddest thing of all time. I know. Okay. Later that night, Robert then says the man woke him up and made him come back out of the car, to the side of the body to look for his jacket that he had left behind. And he says he thinks the reason he made him come with him is in case he got pulled over or whatever. It'd be like, well, my kid's here with me. Yeah, yeah. So they pull over to the side of the road. He stays in the car, and the man goes into the woods to look for his jacket, and Robert says a car drives by. And remember, a car had seen them on the side of the road? Yep. This couple, they. da-da-da-da-da. So they had said that the dome light was on, the passenger side door was open, and Robert says that he remembers a car coming by late at night and says he was scared, so he pushed the seat forward and got out of the car and left the door open. So that's. Explain that. Just every detail he is matching and explaining perfectly. God, it's like, it's horrifying, but it's also insanely satisfying. But wait. Oh, fuck. Sorry. No. Come on. Is anything ever really satisfying in this podcast? No, yes. Not at all. Never. And the people had reported that the man had no jacket when he came out of the woods when they saw him. Right. And in one of his statements, Robert said that he had taken his jacket off to, like, carry, you know, to carry the body because he was sweating and stuff, probably, so that's why he left his jacket behind. Da-da-da-da-da. They drove off. He didn't get his jacket. Then they go back home. Robert says he holds a work light, while the man washes the trunk of the car using the supplies, and then he goes to bed. And four days later, Dana's body is found. Ugh. So, Robert, at this point, as an adult, tells police that he thinks his father's car, the one that was used in the abduction, is buried on a former property that belonged to his dad. And I was like, what the fuck? But apparently people bury their fucking cars in their backyards? Yeah. Is this a thing? That's a thing. Okay. When you live out in the country, you don't want, like, you're not gonna, you're not gonna take, you're not gonna take it anywhere. Why? Well, I mean, like, it's just, like, a thing where it's like, oh, just go put it out there. Because there's tons of room. Yeah. So, like, maybe it costs money to tow. Yeah. Or whatever. So the easier thing is just get out there with some manual labor and get rid of it. I've definitely heard of that before. So that's just, there's just cars everywhere. I mean, it's a little bit like, um, you know, if you live way out. Yeah. Like, when you're kind of, like, way out in the boondocks. Yeah. There's, it's everything. Everything is a big pain in the ass and takes, like, you know, you'd have to drive it into the junkyard for 45 minutes or whatever. This is what happens when you grow up in suburbia. You just don't know fucking country things. Ask me anything about country life. You're a horse person. I didn't even have an opportunity, I didn't even meet a horse that wasn't miserable. I wish I was a horse person. I was, like, I was, like, the person who didn't have the right boots. Like, there's horse people that's, like, the equestrian, that's, like, rich people. Yeah. We were, like, the bareback, you know, 70s children that were, like, we're probably gonna get that bucked off pretty soon. We're, like, the kids with arm casts and shit. No shoes. I love it. Okay. Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. Car is buried. Okay. So, after a 16-month investigation into Robert's story, the RCMP refused to try to retrieve the vehicle and they also dismissed Robert's story completely, saying it didn't match the known facts of the case. Oh, I disagree. They said, quote, the vast differences between the known hard facts of the case and this person's account cannot be overstated. So, they think, hold on, let me read this to you. Okay, but I will tell you that they did tell Robert that they found enough evidence to corroborate his claims of sexual abuse against the bad man. He's identified as Thomas Carey, who was actually arrested and convicted of sexually abusing children in the 90s. Shit. So, he was a legit fucking pedophile. Yeah. And he served, yeah, and he served time, but he's now free, which is fun. Whoa. In Newfoundland? Yeah, in a different city. Ooh. Yeah. So, but as far as this dude murdering Dana, they believe that Robert read about the case and became a victim of false memory syndrome. Hmm. Where a person believes the memory to be true and it colors their whole life and they believe everything. So, they think that he just read so much about it because the stuff he read, the stuff that he knew, was stuff you could read about in the papers. Oh, so he basically got super into the case and then his memories began to fill in and match what he'd read. Right. And maybe he was an alcoholic and didn't remember doing all this stuff. And it is true, they talked to his dad and his dad, like, corroborates that the man, who the guy was and that he was around and that he probably molested his kids. Also that in the first couple weeks of the investigation, they did come and take a look at his car because they were checking everyone's car that was similar. So maybe he had a memory of that somehow. So they don't believe it's true, but a huge, big group of civilians do believe it. They have a Facebook group and there's like 10,000 people on it. Oh, amazing. And they believe Robert's story. And so in May- I do too. I know, you can be one of them. In May, 2016, they collect enough money to evacuate the car. Evacuate, excavate. Yep. Evacuate it from the ground. I mean, same idea. Yes, it is. Yeah. kind of going up different directions. Yeah. Up and out of dirt. Right. it's money to excavate the car it says excavate um but before it was completed so these fucking poor people are like we believe it we're gonna do it justice for dana like all they want is for dana's murder to be solved because it's such a small town and like fucked everyone up so much yeah so they're doing it and then while they're doing it before it's completed the fucking rcmp is like hey guess what you guys we retested some old dna from the case with advanced technologies and were able to connect the dna to an unknown male suspect so it's not that fucking dude it's just some it's not one of the suspects we have right now it's just an unknown not they have to test it against the suspects but it's not a man who's not in the data in the system whoa so those poor people are like shit and then they like yeah that seems a little mean i want to believe in the police yeah we all do they have such great chins but i don't like this i know i don't like i don't like this i know how about we independently check the dna us in the pod loft oh i've got my spinning uh my spinning thing how about in the dna law we make this into a dna loft we seal this off seal it off no cats allowed we get those it's like hazmat suits yeah we handle things yeah gloves yeah yeah yeah yeah we'll do it um and they so they tested the dna against thomas carey no match he's officially ruled out as a suspect um but there are also other cases of missing and murdered women in the area around that time that might be connected to dana in fact the chief medical examiner simon avis stated that at least two serial killers have been active in the province and that one of them is due to be released from prison but he wouldn't tell them who it was oh shit guess what that's fucked so they have oh yeah right god tell me more please i know um they still received many new tips but for now all they can do is test the dna against their hundreds of suspects in the hopes of finally finding dana bradley's killer wow and that's the murder of dana bradley it's so intense it i feel like you said the perfect detail about the murder of dana bradley it's so intense it i feel like you said the perfect detail about the murder of dana bradley it's so intense it i feel like you said the perfect detail at the beginning that hooked me in in this worst way those brothers seeing her hitchhiking and thinking she was too little to be hitchhiking just set that tone of like she's a baby she's a baby and she yeah and that happens i know we read these stories all the time and we get like the more i do these stories and you see this repetitive the habit of calling people um prostitutes and and like they're so especially in you know the hillside stranglers i bet they it's leads with this prostitute prostitute she's a prostitute it's dismissive and totally reductive and it's like they should it should be like she looked like she was 12 like it's that but also like saying she was 14 you think of her a little more a little older like at 14 i had gotten into some shit you know but then you look at an actual 14 year old an everyday normal 14 year old especially back in the fucking 70s and 80s and they were little babies they're little babies and even i mean like what they look like is when i went home um for the holidays i remember sitting my sister and i laughed about this remember the guy that was running um for something in the south and he was the one that had been kicked out of the mall for harassing teenage girls and it was that whole thing where people started talking about like it's fine and you know down here people can have to date 16 year olds and all that weird shit when we went home my sister and i were sitting at christmas and one of my my two nieces were there one of them had just gone off to college and one i believe was a freshman and i was like would you want yeah anna to be dating that guy like would you really go online and be like it's fine that my niece dates that old man like teenage girls are such a fetishized kind of like you know sexualized and like overly matured yeah group where it's like oh yeah hot teenage girl whatever where it's like no their children their children and they have had no life experience yet they don't know how to live you know make good decisions yet and be on their own and they're not they're not adults their brains aren't fucking complete and they're they're still half children yeah like that's the thing to remember it kind of fucked me up when i so you know i did a lot of shit and i was 13 and 14 and then when i was in my 20s i was with a guy for a long time of my boyfriend who had a daughter who was 10 when i met him and then so i was with him for a few years and saw her at 13 and 14 and it kind of hit me as like seeing her and how sweet and young and innocent she was yeah i thought i was a big adult back then of course and it kind of put everything into perspective of what i had done and what had been done to me back then yeah so like i mean it's just yeah it's troubling it's heavy shit but it's um yeah yeah yeah yeah try to be as young as you can for as long as you can do it it's not grow you'll grow up inevitably it's gonna happen yeah it's a real bummer kids don't ever listen when you say stuff like that do kids listen to this stop listening to this yeah we've met a couple it's true oh little baby children girls that come up i know um always with their mothers always with their mothers listen to your mothers and we're back do you have any updates no and i i mean i looked it up just to see if there's any little speck of an update you know they have the dna there's nothing and it's i mean i feel like this has got to be one of those ones where it's like in the next year or two we're going to hear something we have to it's a 14 year old girl who was brutally murdered like 40 years ago like let's get this solved so yeah not yet but maybe well the way that it seems like cold case teams are being put together these days yeah i feel like that's part of the story every time we hear about something getting cleared it's because they had just put a task force together or they finally had money for a cold case team right yeah hopefully well when we do rewind rewind episodes and do this one again then hopefully we can do it there'll be updates and it'll just be you and i looking in the mirror crying now i'm just weeping uncontrollably now it's time for good things of the week much like laptops and ice cream getting too hot can ruin everything especially when you sleep luckily tiami mattresses are designed to keep you cooler and more comfortable all night with a tiami mattress five layers of foam and pocketed coils create a naturally cool supportive mattress finished with a 90 organic cotton top layer you use your bed every day give yourself sleep you love with tiami you have 100 nights to decide plus 35 off that's a thousand dollar value exclusively at tiami.com slash better sleep t-i-a-m-i beautifully designed for better sleep goodbye let's be real we don't all have time to keep up with the latest fashion trends some of us want to look stylish but have someone else to do the shopping that's where stitch fix comes in they're expert human stylists get to know your lifestyle and budget so they can pick pieces that actually work for you stop shopping and get styled today at stitch fix.com slash murder to get 20 off your first order that's stitch fix.com slash murder goodbye this podcast is brought to you by squarespace every successful small business starts with someone saying i wonder if people would actually buy this squarespace gives you everything you need to find out from consultations to events and experiences you can showcase your skills with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business with squarespace's collection of cutting-edge design tools anyone can build a beautiful professional online presence that perfectly fits their brand or business get paid on time with professional invoices and online payments plus streamline your workflow with built-in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools head to squarespace.com slash murder for a free trial and when you're ready to launch use offer code murder to save 10 off your first purchase of a website or domain goodbye um so all right here's the i don't know this is the end of the show where we do say nice things it doesn't have to have a name right it doesn't have to have a name but we've been getting suggestions in a way that is in it's endearing and it's also hilarious people are trying and they're trying in a way that makes me real makes me feel better that there is no fucking proper name for this they're trying so hard and none of them are working well you know why because people you know it's the thing of should it be funny just should it be a pun should be sincere yeah i think i took a picture of one that i liked oh do you have the list steven made a list he's made a list here you take it thanks i get to read it georgia knows i love stuff like this okay i'm gonna read it and you can tell me you just say yes or no off the top of your head kathy suggested happy talk okay megan suggested rejuvenation station it's making my vagina immediately we're rejuvenation station isn't that what you get to feed up in the stirrups yeah isn't that plastic surgery vaginal rejuvenation all right um that's my favorite comedy line that i ever wrote or not ever but like it was one of the earliest ones when zach alfinak has had his talk show late world was zach on vh1 yeah i totally forgot about that right it was my second staff writing job and sarah silverman uh they did a tape piece where sarah went to a vaginal plastic surgeon to interview him and uh i wrote it and one of the i mean of course she riffed a ton of shit herself of course but one of the things i wrote for her to say that she delivered so perfectly it was my favorite thing is um after a day of rejuvenating vaginas um how can you believe in love and it's the way she did it i know that wording probably isn't right on but the way she did it she had this big smile on her face and the guy just stares at her like he has no idea what she's talking about that's my breath i can figure out any way to talk about myself have you noticed that yeah but there are good stories at least god i'm so sick of my own voice um nick suggested cheerful chasers no sorry nick nick and i see anna and jerry um suggested my favorite moment okay that's cute i mean that's smart they're marketing experts probably yeah because they're like keep it on brand yeah but i don't want to have to say that every week yeah elizabeth said my favorite party vibes and she had a u in it so she's from somewhere else nice canada or england molly said put a pin in it i like it hill hill a monster said post-mortem positivity that's good it just takes so long to say it does uh andrea said kicks and kudos andrea's going for it andrea's a mom um andrea does some high kicks yeah jenny with an eye said post pod pick me up um and then to go along with that alliteration tara says positivity pocket see it's impossible it's hilarious um colette says suggested my current jam okay i don't mind it sarah says we should call it fucking hooray i think that's it i mean that's i think steven put that at the end because he knew that we might get the best can you make up a jingle karen am i right for oh it's fucking hooray there yes you can just came out of me that's beautiful that was my favorite was it yeah that's my favorite one fucking hooray i mean that's perfect it's pretty it pretty nailed it all right fucking hooray it is who did it what's her name again that was sarah with an h sarah with an h congratulations i mean you win but megan rejuvenation station yeah you're right there the closest of seconds um but again the vagina part it's not your problem it's not your fault this was a if this was purely a feminism podcast they would win what is your fucking hooray want me to go first yeah do you have one uh mine is that i someone suggested i start reading this again and i'm so glad i did because it's so positive it's tiny beautiful things it's the dear sugar book by cheryl strayed who wrote wild she was this um anonymous uh advice columnist for years and if the book is a like a um what's it called compilation of like some of her best but it tells the story it's so beautiful she's so incredible the way she talks to people who are going through this traumatic crazy shit is so real and human yeah and even if it's problems that you've never gone through which most of them are but you can relate to in some way um it's really great advice and just a really great life lesson i it's i can't recommend it enough tiny beautiful things so tiny beautiful things is another advice book yeah it's dear it's the dear sugar book by cheryl strayed who wrote the dear sugar book oh okay yeah is it red i it's orange yeah orange is that it do you have it yes okay yes i didn't realize that was the title yeah it's called tiny beautiful things it's the dear sugar book by cheryl strayed i've also read it it's amazing so great it's really smart it's like advice in that way like i used to like when i used to read l and i'd always read dear e gene yeah and like sometimes her advice was great and really direct and you know badass but then also sometimes it was like i don't i'm not with this yeah like this uh take on life because everybody's different sure whatever i'm with that shit that that dear sugar well she does what you do which is takes every question as a chance to talk about herself in her life but then somehow fucking turns it into this incredible uh in this incredible way to relate to the person and then and then also empathize with them so incredibly hard it's just it's obviously this the person who wrote it dear sugar is just so she's so uh she's so human and so empathetic and thoughtful it's really a beautiful book and you'll and you'll you'll grow and heal from it too yourself yeah i mean yeah okay that's a good one that's my hooray fucking hooray oh fucking hooray hooray and that works that title really works um i mine is a little uh weird but i'm finding uh i i got this book on tape i just haven't been feeling good about myself in a just physically way um and just haven't been active and i know that like moving around immediately makes me feel better and the less i do it the less i want to do it totally and it's just you know i've been complaining to you privately about this for quite some time it's our life um so there is uh i i just looked started looking randomly it was like what should i do i need to do something right now and i'm like i'll listen to a book and then i'm like okay i'm gonna do this book and then i'm gonna do this book and podcast so i first i found a podcast called half size me which is hosted by a woman who is doing that thing where she's standing in one leg of the pants she used to wear and she is it i i don't have the steven will you find her name for me just so i can say it but it's such a great podcast she talks to people who um basically listen to the podcast and lost weight and they just talk about how they did it what they did like what's effective yeah and she is like i'm gonna do this book and it is really positive really like i just love it if there's so many ways to do that kind of talking incorrectly like fitness or like you know what you need to do is you dig in or whatever where it's like but if you don't understand the feeling of having 40 60 80 extra pounds on your body you just don't know like there are people that give advice that have no idea what they're fucking talking about in that specific way so it's very cool it's a woman who did it and then it's just talking to other people about how they did it that's incredible incredible so because it's different for every single person it's different for everybody and it's really helpful to just hear real people who are like yeah yeah that's what i was like too and well it's harder to say it's harder to be like i can't do that when someone's like but i did it yeah right exactly because when you're sitting at home alone you're like there's just no way and forget it it's the easiest thing to do yeah but when you're listening to people who are like yeah i thought it was impossible but here's what here's what inspired me this day this day how about then your um your goal is to be on that podcast exactly no it really is because oh so wait her name is heather robertson thanks steven cool um that's heather robertson half size me but but the actually so that's how i found this book okay because she recommends that everybody that's going to like get into that whole thing read this book first okay the book is called the diet fix and it's by a doctor named yoni friedhoff and he is i think i believe he's canadian it's basically the book you read when you have read every fucking diet book you've tried every diet and you now don't know what to do because you have too much information and he calls people traumatized dieters and he's the idea is you have to stop dieting you have to stop restricting you have to stop being mean to yourself and beating yourself up and you have to start looking at all all of it like how are you going to do it in the positive way radical self-acceptance we were being sarcastic but that's totally what it is and it just like i am the quickest at starting to listen to something and being like bullshit and you're full of bullshit and goodbye and well you know what you know what opening yourself up to and letting and trying it is just vulnerability because i'm also reading fucking daring greatly again brené brown brené brown this is the self-help corner i mean there's here's a thing when you actually find for i've read a million self-help books so like that's why when i read brené brown's books i was like holy shit this is real because it isn't the usual you know the patterns and you know that talk and you know the like you've just got to believe in yourself whatever it's like that's not going to help me get off the couch what is like how do i get inspired right and this the diet fix book unclenched something in my brain in the best way that just kind of made me go like yeah i'll just make little changes and just start awesome little changes that's that's a big part of it right like because you're always like i'm gonna stop doing this entire life thing i mean how many times on the road was i like just i'm i would just turn to georgia and be like i'm just not gonna eat macaroni and cheese at 11 o'clock anymore and then vince would be like so we got to order dinner for after the show and i'd be like i'll go ahead and get some mac and cheese like like it's a thing of when i don't know things are stressful things things are busy and you just want your guaranteed comfort yeah you just it's like if you don't know where to go you're just like you're just like you're just like you're going nowhere else to get it then you just go to the same well every time and then that's how like this in that diet fix book where you've, if dieting worked, everybody would be thin and you beat yourself up for not being able to do a thing that no one can do. Because even like I've gone on things where I don't eat sugar for two years, you can do that, but you can't sustain it because you're not living happily. Then you can't continue to live that way. And so the goal is to figure out how to live happily without abusing yourself with food. Yeah. That's all. So it's, I mean, I hate to talk about stuff like this. I will say this. I am an, you, you be exactly the way you want to be. Just feel good. Right. I'm talking about this right now. Cause I don't. Yeah. Not, not, not, it's not about you're at the wrong size. It's I don't feel good in my body right now. Interior, being uncomfortable and be uncomfortable makes me mad at myself, and then I'm mean to myself. So like the idea that I'm listening to a thing that's going, yeah, the whole, it's not figure out a new way to be mean, you're mean to yourself. It's going, no, stop all clear all the meanness out and start over. And here's how you do it. What's it called again? The book, the diet fix by Yoni Friedhoff. Um, and that the only reason I knew about it is because Heather and her, um, half size me podcast, which is a delight to listen to. It's like two ladies laughing about the way it's been. And then the way it is now. I want to listen. I love it. It's very cool. That's awesome. But also do what you want. Well, that was fucking array. Okay. We're back. And this is the first time that fucking hooray is used, which is, this is the show. Exciting. It became huge. The birthplace. I mean, we, it, it was so needed. Yeah. It was perfect. Also tiny, beautiful things. The book I was reading was adapted into a Hulu limited series starring the great Catherine Hahn, which premiered in April of 2023. I love Catherine Hahn so much. I know. She's so delightful. Every time I see her, the things she's wearing makes me crazy with jealousy and the way her hair looks makes me crazy with jealousy. She's a cool girl. Yeah. She's so cool. But it's like her look is it. Yeah. When I do that, it just looks like I let my hair air, dry and I didn't put any product in it. So irritating. Yeah. We love you, Catherine Hahn. So originally we titled this episode Civic Order. Not one of our best. No, not very funny. But if we were naming it today, maybe we could call it. The numbing shit for sure. Although we don't use curse words a lot in our, in our titles, do we? Not in a title. No. Don't Yawn See With Strangers is hilarious. So really good advice. We talk. We talked about Frank, Frank Salarno, of course. And of course, Rejuvenation Station, which is a listener-submitted segment that needs to be celebrated, that needs its own spinoff podcast. All right. Well, that's this week's episode of The Rewind. Let's go say goodbye from 2018. Thanks, Sarah. Right. Now I really like feel like saying fucking hooray. Fucking hooray. Yeah. Cool. Thanks for listening. You guys, you know, you're the best. We love you. Love you. And stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Bye. 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