Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 113:  Live at Kingsbury Hall in Salt Lake City

This is exactly right. But the millionaire duo are concealing a dark past and dastardly intentions. From USG Audio, Blanchard House and Exactly Right Media, this is Royal Swindle. Listen to the entire series now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with all new commentary and case updates and general chitter chatter. Today, we're rewinding to episode 113, which we named Live at Kingsbury Hall in Salt Lake City. We recorded this live on the iHeartRadio app. We recorded this live in Salt Lake City and this episode came out on March 22nd, 2018. Let's listen to the intro of episode 113. What's up, Salt Lake City? Yes. We've got to choreograph that dance. We've got to. Someday. Hi, best friends. What's up? Hi. There is so many opportunities for screaming at these shows. Shit. It's the best. Loving it. It looks like there's a ghost walking somewhere to their seat up there. Do you guys have ghost stashers here? Because we did not approve that. Is that the undead screaming in the back? What's happening? Oh, huge zombie contingent tonight. Yeah. We love it. They're like, there haven't been zombies in this theater for 25 years. That's right. I'm pulling out all the hits for the live show. Since 1990. Thanks. I just want to point this out really quick. I stopped curling my hair right about here. Can you tell? I was just like, this sucks. I'm bored. If you can't see it. Right. Then who fucking. If you can't see it, then it doesn't, then it's not there. Just always keep your head real turned. Don't let anybody come up on your hind quarter at all. Just keep it. Hey, hey, hey. Keep it to the Farrah Fawcett area. You wanted me to remind you, live corrections corner. Oh, you want to do it right off the top? Oh, do you? Fresh and sure. I guess I do. Guys. So the episode dropped. Today, and oh, thank you. It happens every Thursday. Thank you. It's easy. You can do it yourself. It's just, you just upload it onto a computer. It's crazy, but get yourself a Steven. That's right. Make him do everything. No, he's not here. He's not here. Although, yeah, no, we don't bring him, but doesn't it look like someone's standing under. Yeah. We brought Steven's favorite skirt to use as the table cover. He's very shy, so he's bent at the waist under this table. Ow, ow. We need a moment of silence for the relationship between Jennifer and Aniston. Jennifer Aniston and what's his face? Right. We'll just call him that. We'll just call him that from now on. Mac. Matt? Matt. Oh, poor babe. Justin something. Uh. It doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't matter. He looks really good on her arm, I must say. I never bought it. No? But then there's this already, already, it came out today that they're breaking up and then it's like, everyone's rooting for a Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston back together. Nobody cares. Nobody is. And what if every fucking time you broke up with someone, everyone was like, remember that guy who cheated on you 10 fucking years ago? Everyone's hoping you guys get back together. Marry him for the second mistaken time. You know, though. How? Yeah. He has 10 kids. Everyone wants you to get back together with him. Get in there. Being a stepmom to 10 is amazing. Fuck that shit. Did I ever tell you the story that I know that's the secret Burbank story? No. Okay. This stays here in the vault. SLC. SLC. You're in the vault now. Can I trust you? With a secret? There's, it's not really a secret. There's a, um, it's a thrift store on Riverside in Burbank and the word on the street is, you know, it's the American Heart and Lung Association thrift store. All the old ladies are just fucking smoking butts all day, but the word on the street is that because it's the one that's the closest to, uh, the Warner Brothers studios where they shot television show friends and when, um, it first came out that Brad Pitt was cheating on Jennifer Aniston. Jennifer Aniston with Angelina Jolie when they were shooting some wonderful, uh, film in like in Greece or somewhere. It was that Greek one. Yeah, we know. Let's not talk about it. Um, she took all of his clothes out of his mansion closet and drove it on down to the American Heart and Lung Association thrift store and dropped every item of clothing at this. Now it's Brad Pitt's clothes. So they're all $11,000. They're all $11,000 shirts and they smell incredible. They smell. I always just bought them just to lay face down in a pile of, no, I wouldn't. Vince, I wouldn't have done that. They're like, do you want to smell what luck smells like? Yeah. And so for normally there's a lot of wicker chairs, um, for sale in this thrift store and then some paperback books by James Patterson. God bless his soul. But then for like, I'm sure. Eight wonderful days. It was just filled with like the highest end clothing. That's all I can guess. That's high end. Hugo Boss. What's high end men's clothing? Armani. Michael Kors. We'll name everything we've seen in Macy's. Nordstrom Rack. What do they have? That's all I know. Cole Haan slip on shoes. There you go. Um, what about your outfit? Do you want to talk about it a little bit? Well, I shop at Vintage Store. Thank you because I don't know any names and designers and now no one can fucking blame me for wearing cheap shit because it's old. It's vintage. It's old. It's fine. That's right. So this is an old dress. Thank you. Walk it down, down the rug. Yeah. Yeah. They love it. Oh, a full square. She's good. She's doing square footage. Loving it. It's a new run. You just invented the new runway. It's a big, gorgeous runway. It's a gorgeous rectangle of rug. On a gorgeous rug. Oriental rug. Oriental rug. We demand it. Thank you, whoever brought this from home. We really appreciate you letting your foyer go bare for us this evening while we enjoy touching it and loving it. It'll be for sale outside in the lobby after the show. Uh, what are you wearing? Uh-uh. I almost said, what are you doing? What are you doing over there? What are you doing? Well, I can't find shirts that fit me and I don't try to find them. I was going to buy, I swear to God, at like 9 o'clock at CVS, I was going to buy a black shirt that said Burbank on the front of it. Represent. Because I'm a joke. It'll be fine. Don't worry about me. It'll be fine. This is actually our, oh, this is the last, like, weekend. This is the last weekend away of this tour, I just realized. That's, we're capping it off at SLC, everybody. Double fucking shows here. Yes. Yes. University of Utah. You guys are the ones, this show, we're doing two shows here because last, the first show last night, tomorrow night, where are we? Sometime this week. Uh, it sold out already, so you guys are the ones who didn't wake up early the day of and then emailed, put us on Twitter saying, I don't know. - It's our show, it's hold out, we're angry at 'em. So that's what we did for you Well done, thank you for your advocacy We only listen to anger Thank you for using your anger constructively That's what we mean Use it to bring us places That's the way to do it Oh, this is my favorite part of the podcast That's right This is Karen Kilgariff This is Georgia Hardstar Thank you Lots of screaming time Where are the two voices in your head While you drive or work Or are supposed to be doing something else That's right I wrote down on this piece of paper To talk about I wrote, smell like a rave Really? A rave? Rave Uh-oh Our shampoo and things in the hotel room Smell like me when I would go to raves Uh-oh It's just this like A Victoria's Secret body spray smell Uh-uh Uh-uh It smells like grinding teeth Yeah What is that? Tooth powder? The powder of my own molars? When you got the first wave of the smell of raves What was your first emotional reaction to that smell? Ew Uh-huh No And then Dependent On how you see things How do we both know delight perfectly? It's amazing Uh Because my friend Dave Messmer One time when we were in Fake college I dropped out I met him at the JC In the drama department He didn't claim to be gay yet But he had the hugest poster of Madonna On his apartment wall That when I walked in I went Oh no Oh no Were you hoping to make out? And then you're like Ah shit Fuck Fuck Whatever But He Is my lifelong best friend And um Wait what? I thought I thought I was You've known me two years Whoops I thought I was your lifelong You have actually pulled ahead of most people Ah Ah I mean it's not her I believe in fucking Hollywood It's like Everyone's the worst person There's I mean I had the choice of her Or her husband Vince That was pretty much it In terms of quality people in Los Angeles Should we tell them What the three of you Of us did for Valentine's Day Last night Yeah We were We had a record On Valentine's Day And then I was like We were talking at like Two and we're like Let's do it early I'm like What if Stephen has Valentine's Day plans And then it turns out None of us have Valentine's Day plans Well this is This is the best Stephen goes We go So as we were leaving I was like Vince we should have them stay And like eat pizza or whatever You know for Valentine's Day And so we asked you And you're like great Of course I'm like yes Fine Ah And then we're like And we asked Stephen And we're like He kind of paused And we're like Oh do you have a date And he's like I have to work on this podcast Recording He had to go home And cut out all the bullshit Dumb parts Not fix the date Yeah Yeah His date was Work With us With like The two meanest girls In his life No Immediately we were like Bye have a good night Go Go Get out of here Hurry up I gave him some What are those Chocolates The things that we love The Buckeyes Oh yeah We got some Buckeyes So he's fine He was fine Buckeyes from Ohio right? Yeah Oh you guys know? Alright so we were just in Ohio And people gave us Repeatedly Everywhere we went Humongous Balls of peanut butter Covered in chocolate And it would be like In a Tupperware container Or whatever It would be like I had my mother Make these for you All night last night We don't question it We just fucking eat them We just fucking Plowed them down Should we Sit down? Yeah we might as well Oh Look at this I'm gonna I'm gonna stay over here Are you gonna go Way over there? Yeah Okay Look at these teeny tiny Cute little kids This is one of the Safest heights You can sit at At a cocktail table I guess I heard that in Utah They don't let you sit Any higher than this After That's right After midnight You're not allowed To sit Over eight inches Above the plane Of the table This is so If you get secretly Drunk at your house You can just put your head On the table No go ahead I'm listening I'm listening to your story I'm gonna wear this You should make this Into a beautiful skirt And wear it tomorrow This is actually This might be the solution To my dress problem Yeah I just Slip it over my shoes Yeah And then I walk out Like fucking Mum and Sean's Type of shit Here They gave you this You can make this Into a tube top That's gorgeous What is this Some sort of cloth That they cut From a drape Yeah Yeah I know Theater terms I'm of the theater Oh the end Of that Dave story Oh yeah My second best friend In the world Is We were at a party One night And we got Insanely high To the point Where we could Only sit on the couch And I was definitely Having a panic attack For sure But I hadn't Had one before So I was just like It's all ending now I'm so young And then I realized I wasn't dying It was just that Dave wouldn't stop Lip syncing The D-Light album At me From the side So he was like Lip syncing people When you're fucking Really high Yeah So he was just like D-Light Pending It's just like Please don't make me That's not even A good D-Light song Either way No it's just The first one And then he continued To do it for the rest Oh Jesus Christ Look I'm not here To complain about Dave I am I am That's what your murder is? Dave Oh you didn't know I killed him real quick I took care of Dave For you Dave Messmer Everybody I'm gonna kill him Oh I feel like We should thank Even though they Probably didn't do it That this place Caught Ted Bundy So thanks Utah Salt Lake City Oh Thanks guys I missed the Verb Caught Oh Caught But I thought It happened in Florida No he Well he got out He escaped from here Right Oh I see When he jumped out Of the jail window And then ran up the hill No it's a different time Hi He escaped from Colorado Sorry hold on a second She's dead She's dead She's still yelling And she started by She goes Hi I'm Celine Beck Oh shit You're the documentary Filmmaker Get up here Oh shit Get up here I didn't even I didn't know Oh my god I thought it was Just an audience member That's like You need to know My first and last name Before I tell you Ted Bundy facts Oh my god Holy shit Here There's Vince Get over here Come here Hi Get on this rug Steven is absolutely fired He told us you can't You're coming tomorrow night And so that's why We didn't know How does he know This was a secret Oh We talked to But you immediately Started yelling The second you had the chance I was I know the rules But as soon as you said Ted Bundy escaped from here I was like No no no no Yeah Let me tell you Just say it How did we get it wrong? Just now So Ted escaped twice From Colorado Okay Not from here The second time Is when he went to Ann Arbor And then went to Florida For his final killings Girl Tell everyone What you do And what's happening We just talked about her I know but maybe They didn't catch up today We just talked about her It's so exciting Hi So I'm the director Of Theodore the documentary That's coming out Did you hear us talk about you? We talked about you We talked about you Ted got me this morning I feel like I'm going to die I feel like I'm going to die I feel like my shit No so all Everyone here Has like been tweeting at me But I didn't want to say That I was coming tonight Oh So hi Hey I'm so glad you introduced yourself Hi I'm so sorry I yelled at you I feel bad No you're great Give us a hug Okay Thank you Bye Is she leaving? I don't know Oh okay Do you have a question? You're going to stay for the show right? Oh fuck yeah Okay good Well if we have any questions We'll ask you I know you're sitting You were like And her name is Selena And I'm like Oh shit Wait That's the best thing of all time I just thought it was like She was basically like I thought she was at a town hall meeting Where she's like Hello I'm Selene Beck And I'm on the actor's track I just want to let you know You're pretty much wrong About everything all the time Okay Thanks for podcasting Perfection We miss some shit sometimes I mean Could you imagine If people made documentaries Where they were just like And then Ted Bundy Ten years after He actually did the thing They just got everything wrong Yep Do a follow up documentary Okay here's the stuff We should have looked at A little closer Listen Look Listen Look We're not perfectionists Certainly And we're back That was a fun one All the way back in 2018 What a weird Mile marker that we all live by at least in my generation of Jennifer Aniston's relationships. Totally. We're just waiting and hoping for her to find love. I feel like Justin Theroux, and maybe it's just because he's friends with Amy Sedaris, I'm like, he has to be the best person ever, right? Yes. Well, and what's weird is I remember the first movie I saw him in and I was like, who's this hot hunk, newest hunk of the week? Right. I do think that, I don't know why actors marry each other. Just don't do that. It's not going to work. Of course you're attracted to each other. You're both really hot. And dramatic and fun and excitement everywhere. Yes. Especially if you're successful and like, you know. Totally. Like not to be insulting, you have to be a little bit unhinged to be, A, in the entertainment industry, B, an actor or actress. Like that's kind of part of what it takes to like pretend to be someone totally different. Yet you need a grounded earth sign for your insanity. Sorry to be that way. I don't even know what that means. I love when you see like such and such like Reese Witherspoon and her fucking bank executive boyfriend or her fucking architect husband. The finance bro. Finance. Like, yes. I guess the point is if Jennifer Aniston can't find love, is there hope for humanity? You know? If we do enough Pilates. And drink enough smart water. Here's the good news. That American Heart Association thrift store is still alive. And probably thriving now more than ever on Riverside. I just drove by it the other day. We've got to go. We've got to stop in. We've got to. There's anything left from him. I got an incredible couch there that was very Laura Ingalls Wilder, but it fit for what kind of weird thing I was doing in my office at the time. Big old, very comfortable to lay on, old couch. Do you ever think, and thank your lucky stars, that we, neither of us, well, me at least, you could tell me yourself, never got, got bed bugs or scabies or lice from all the thrift. I have scabies right now. Oh. I've always had scabies. From all the thrifting we've done? Oh, yeah. There is no reason. For real. It's like, well, I think it's because my mother always washed everything in extra hot and would say, you're going to get scabies shopping at thrift stores. Yeah. So you kept an eye out. And I said, you're a classist. You're like, I'm actually going to give the thrift store scabies. So. I'm bringing the filth to the St. Vincent de Paul. So fuck everybody. Moths. I definitely have moths. Like I've inherited some, some Meemaw's moths for sure. I have some moths right now because I just pulled a coat, a very old coat out of the back of a closet to do a closet, like swipe through. And this thing was covered in these things where I was like, there's, there's only one thing it could be. Yeah. Moths. Can I tell you how satisfying it is? They have these, like, they're plug-in sticky papers with like a blue light. So all the bugs are attracted to it and get on the sticky paper. Fucking RIP, you know, sorry, PETA. It is so satisfying to pick that up and see all the little critters that were going to fly in your mouth while you're sleeping. And instead. That aren't on you. Oh, it's so good. It's so satisfying. That's really good. Yeah. Also, I don't think PETA extends their well wishes to the insect community. I really don't. That's the only animal I feel comfortable. I don't hate, not hating is, and I love insects. Clearly, I kill them all. What else? Did we cover it? What else did we not talk about 2018? Victoria's Sacred Body Spray. We should have done, you know what we should do on a fan call? Is a bunch of, if we can get a hold of them, 90s perfumes identifying scent test. Mine was Apple. Yes. Happy by Clinique. Oh, happy by Clinique. We got to put poison. Poison happy. Christian Dior's poison. Uh-huh. Which, I have an amazing, I probably have told you this, but my friend Amy Doherty that I went to high school with got her knee wrecked in, like when she was a senior and she was going into the emergency room and she was wearing poison perfume. Uh-huh. And the admitting nurse goes, what the hell are you wearing? Oh, take that off. Never wear that again. And got like super mad at her. Oh, I love it. But like also telling a nurse you're wearing poison, she's like, what? Like, what? That doesn't make any sense. Get, get out of here. Get out of here. It was the time for dramatic colognes and perfumes. Gina Tay, of course. Oh, oh, I just remembered what it is. Sunflower. Oh, yeah. Remember sunflower? That, I did that and then I went to happy. Oh, I would love to smell that right now. CK1. We have to do CK1. How many boys did you love and then you realized you just loved that CK1? Yeah. That's how you really love. Jupe. There was a guy, one called Jupe. Jupe. And that one. Jupe. Remember the commercials for Jupe? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I have to look it up right now. We have to find, and then we have to add, if we do that for the fan cult, then we also have to add in Sweet Honesty, just like as a wild card. Oh, yes. As a smeller. Yeah. Molly, are you getting all this? Well, it's on, it's on tape. Oh, yeah. That's right. Someone's listening. Did you know? This whole time for 10 years. Shut up. No, it's been recorded. Yeah. What about Liz Claiborne perfume in the triangle? Yeah, Liz Claiborne. That was mine for a long time. All right. We could go on and on. We've done it. We've done it. Jupe. That's, I think. And there's jupe for ohm as well. For him. Home. Home. Home jupe and away jupe. Home jupe. Okay. All right. We've done it. Let's get into this. Okay. We're fucking off on a live show. This is unprecedented. Truly. All right. Well, let's get into the stories, shall we? These are good ones. That's right. Also, just to get back to the live show, I remember this being a really fun show, and I have the best memories of Salt Lake City. Salt Lake City performing there. Salt Lake City was, I don't know what I was expecting, but they were so with us, like, right in lockstep with us. It was all college kids, so it was just like, and teachers and stuff, so it was so much fun. Yeah. It felt so good. No, I totally remember. The second I saw that it was that library story, I was like, oh, yeah. Yeah. This was great. Okay. Well, we're going to get into it now. Georgia had to go first this time, so this is Georgia's story about Ronnie Lee Gardner. I go first, right? Do you? Yes. Did you go first last? Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Yeah, I went first today. We've actually just caught up with ourselves podcasting-wise. What? It's today, today. It's today in this world. Fuck. All right. Could we have some oxygen rolled out onto the stage? So weird. We heard that people have fainted on this stage before. My head is a little warm right now, actually. I want to do it. Do it. Go down in the middle of this story. I'll do it. I'm here for it. What if I have to pee, and so I just pretend to faint so I can go pee and then come back? If you fake a seizure, you can pee during it. Oh. Because, yeah. That's what happens. Great. Grandma, baby. Let it all go. What if I actually have a seizure now and everyone thinks I'm faking? Fuck. This is ridiculous. This is ridiculous. This is ridiculous. This is ridiculous. This isn't going to work. Just roll you up in this carpet. Okay. This is. If anything happened to us, we would just be taken off the stage and Celine would be right up there in one fucking second. She's just like. I actually happen to have a PowerPoint presentation of all the times they've been wrong. That's exciting. It is. This is the story of the murderer, Ronnie Lee Gardner, Utah. What a dick. Is this guy a real dick? He's a real dick. Okay. All right. This guy, Ronnie Lee Gardner, he's born in Salt Lake City, Utah. You've heard of it. On January 16th, 1961. Great. There we are. Okay. Don't get defensive about it. I'm establishing a time and a place. I see. He is the youngest of seven fucking children. It's not where you want to be. That's right. His father's a heavy drinker. And when Ronnie's a toddler, he's like, you know what? I'm going to start over and try this again. And he leaves to start a new family. Which is like, you gave it a shot and it didn't work. So maybe you shouldn't keep trying. Yeah. Get out of the family business and go into like mattresses or something. Right. It's not working for you. You tried seven times. So soon after that, Ronnie. Okay. Ronnie is an asshole. We hate him. However, he had really no chance not to be based on his childhood. I mean, it's bad. Okay. Let's do it. Soon after, little baby Ronnie is found wandering the streets in a diaper, malnourished. What? Just fucking walked away the way you used to do, but it was funny when you did it. That's right. Because I had like pigtails and we were in the country. And you were like supervised. Yeah, that's true. It was lightly supervised. Right. It was. You were 1970s, something supervised. Right. Which meant a truck drove by every once in a while. Yeah. Which now would be child neglect. But back then, it was how you parent. Wait. So how old was he when this happened? He was a toddler. Oh, okay. Yeah. Child welfare comes in and does a fail to care petition, takes him into custody, but later return him to his mother. And according to Ronnie, he was raised by an older sister and also he was sexually abused by his siblings. Oh. Sometimes he and his sister Bonnie would run away and seek refuge. They'd be like, this home life sucks. Let's go somewhere safe. By the time he's 10 years old, Ronnie is addicted to drugs and he's allowed to have alcohol. 10? Which, like, my mom bought me Zia. a Zima to try when I was 12, and so, Mom, it's your fault. All of this is your fault. I made myself a wine spritzer when I was, I think I was in seventh grade. Me and my friend Holly drank our parents' liquor and talked on the phone one time. Oh, my God. We were just like, let's just do it. Who cares? You thought you were so sophisticated? I need a drink. I'm seventh grade. I'm the youngest alcoholic in my school. So, be proud of that. So, Ronnie still had a relationship with his father, but it was a really shitty relationship because his dad didn't think that Ronnie was his biological kid, and he told his son and all his siblings that all the time, which is a great way to raise your kid, or not your kid. So, Ronnie and his brother were arrested for stealing cowboy boots and taken to juvenile detention, which I think is something you probably would have done. Abso-hundred-lutely. Because cowboy boots. Technically, I did steal them off of my sister. Right. I've told this story, but my sister, on her sixth birthday, my Aunt Jean gave her a pair of red cowboy boots, and when she opened the box, I screamed at the top of my lungs, put them on, and would not take them off. And then I wore red cowboy boots for like two years straight. Yeah. Finders keepers. That's right. Screamers keepers. So, they go to juvenile detention. And his father. His stupid father comes and takes his brother home, but won't take him home. What? Because he's like, he's not my son. I'm not bailing him out. That's rough. So, like, all right. Yeah. So, Ronnie's mom eventually marries another man, and they have nine children. What in the. Yo! Catholics? In Utah? Does that even happen? Okay. But Ronnie actually admired his stepfather. He was a stepfather because he had been in prison in the past, and he used his stepsons as lookouts while burglarizing homes. Good. Yes. You've got to get a whole family, like, a thing going. What is everybody like? Do you like to play Uno? Do you like to burglarize your neighbors? Right. Whatever it is. Do it as a family. Yes. And then. Detention. Institutions. All right. So, by his teens, early teens, he had been in all these places. Locked up. While he's in the Utah State Industrial School in Ogden, Ronnie has visited. Pretty good school? I think it's like a lockup. It's like a juvenile detention school. It's juvie. It's juvie. Okay. Ronnie's visited by a man that his brother is. Randy's living with, and he's like, hey, this guy, this older dude is great. His name's Jack Statt. I'm living with him. You should live with him, too. Jack Stack? He. Statt. Oh. Like. Statt. Like, immediately? Immediately. I just say the word. You know, like, the same word I just said. Yeah. Statt. Like, Statt. Like, quickly. In 1975, so, Ronnie moves in with Statt and Randy. And this guy becomes an official foster parent to the boys. And so, Ronnie, at the time, is saying that of his foster care, it's the most stable period of his life, saying Jack was a good man and he tried to help us out. Jack was also molesting them. And that was still the best home life he's experienced. So, it's just fucking sad. It's terrible. He said, I thought life was normal. I thought that was normal. And he said he also worked as a. He worked as a sex worker while living with Statt as well. And he's in his teens? Yeah. Yeah. So, then he meets. I don't know what year exactly, but he meets a woman named Debra Bischoff, or a teen. I don't know how old she was, either. I did my homework. Um. They meet at a. They meet at a Salt Lake City apartment complex where his mom lives, and they fall in love. Debra describes Ronnie as very caring. He never put me through. He never put me in the rough situations he was in throughout his life. He sheltered me from that stuff. I feel like we gotta get our standards a little higher. He doesn't punch me in the face. He doesn't take me along with burglarizing. He keeps me out of that. Because of that, I love him so. Yeah. In 1977, they. They have a daughter together, and in 1980, they have a son. But a month after his son is born, Ronnie is convicted of robbery and sent to the Utah State Prison. Want to see a picture of him? Yes. Good. Oh. I mean. Hold on. I just could not put this photo up. He looks like Steven there. Oh. Yes. Not what you expected, right? Neck tats and shit? He's in court, so he's dressed up nice. But also leaning on your hand, leaning on your fist with your chin like that is Steven Ray Morris to a T. Oh, my God, it is. That's like how he podcast records. And then he reaches his fingers out and then strokes his mustache like, I'm not fucking even making this up. I'm not even making fun of him. I mean, I am, but he really does it. And then we look over at him, and we go to say one thing to him, and he goes. Steven. Steven, we really like you. We do. Happy Valentine's Day. Editing our terrible voices that you're so sick of. I was so sick of. He missed some pizza and these cheese mozzarella sticks. Yes. They're so bad. They came with ketchup. What? But the sticks themselves were perfect cylinders of mozzarella cheese that was fried. Frozen. Like, they came out of a box. Look. I mean, I'm not judging. What do you want? Fucking fresh mozzarella? Mozzarella sticks? No fucking way. Frozen. Old. From somewhere else. Ketchup. Hard to eat. That's what I'm looking for. I ate all of them. Ketchup. Ketchup. You're like, do you remember me? I was eating them alongside you. I'm not judging these things. We got a salad, and then I ate it with my hand. That's right. Why did I do that? It's kind of how you wrapped up the meal. It's like how you let everyone know we're done doing this. It's like I have to eat my quota of lettuce. Yes. Seven handfuls of lettuce. And we're done with dinner. Okay. So that's Ronnie. In August of 1984, while in prison, Ronnie fakes an illness by vomiting. He didn't have a fake seizure. There's so many ways. I mean, he fakes an illness, and he's transported to the University of Utah Hospital. Is that next door? It's in the basement. He attacks the transportation office. There's a police officer at that moment and is like, fuck this. I'm out of here. He forces the officer to unlock his shackles by telling him, I guess you know that, I guess you know if that doctor comes back, I'll have to kill you both. So he makes him take off his shackles at gunpoint. And then in the course of his escape, he hits the officer so hard that he needed wires to reconstruct his face. Fuck. Yeah. So, like, we're not on his side anymore. Okay. All empathy has died. Yeah. We had him. We had him. Cowboy boots is a forgivable thing, man. Look, I was relating to him in a very serious way right up until you said the word wire. I know. Reconstruct. That's not. Come on. That never goes well. Okay. Just escape. Yeah. Just fucking escape and let people have their face. Then, so he's like, okay, he got out of the hospital, but he's like, how do I get the fuck out of here? He finds a dude, a medical student, who's like, hey, I'm a medical student. I'm a medical student, and I ride a motorcycle, and he gets on the back of the motorcycle with the guy, holds the gun to his back, and is like, get me the fuck out of here, as if it's, like, fucking James Bond or some shit. Yes. I have to say, I kind of like that, because you know that medical student was a cocky motherfucker, so it's just like, yeah. How about if we hold the gun to you every once in a while, you son of a bitch? And if nothing else, he had the coolest story to tell on Monday. Exactly. You know what I mean? Totally. Totally. A, he's the cool doctor who fucking rides a motorcycle, which is like, if you're a doctor and you're doing that, you don't care about yourself. That's right. You're taking your own pills, for sure, because you see what happens to people who ride motorcycles and fix them. Their faces need reconstruction. It's a serious wire situation, and you're like, I'm going to get one, too, though. That's right. That's exactly right. Well, we've ripped doctors a new one. And everyone who came here on a motorcycle. Hi. It's half the crowd is doctors, the other half is from a motorcycle club. They're like, oh, you didn't know this university was a teaching hospital? Almost everyone here is in medicine in some way. Well, when I faint, nobody come save me. I'm faking it. Pop a wheelie, just like blaze on out of the parking lot. Later. Later days. Later. Okay. Boop, boop. Letter. Okay. Ba, ba, ba. Not ba, ba. Okay. On August 11th, so he gets out of there, and then after he escapes, he puts the firearm gun. That was copy and pasted. The gun in and a note into a mailbox, and in it he writes, here's the gun and the wallet taken from the guard. So he gives the wallet back. he's like sorry about the face he didn't apologize for that oh um Taken from the guard. I don't want to hurt no one else. I just want to be free. So he returns and he's like, just not coming back. Well, that's kind of nice. Right. But then. Please hold. Yes. Okay. All right. So he gets, he's on October 9th, 1984. He's fucked up on cocaine and he goes to a place called Cheers Tavern. Totally forgot to say if it was still there. Oh, like the TV show? Do you have a Cheers remake here? Is it? I don't know. Is it? Is it fucking Cliff? Or Norman Cliff, like sitting at the end of the bar? Animatronic Norman Cliff? Oh, why hasn't that happened yet? Oh, fuck. After party at Cheers. Cheers Tavern. Oh my God. Okay. Sam Malone's in the balcony. I'm so excited. And that, his mustache. So he goes there to rob the place, right? What? He had a mustache. Sam Malone? He had a mustache. Are you thinking of him? I'm thinking of the, you're thinking of Cliff Clavin, the mailman. Yeah, he had one too. Girl, don't do this. Okay. Where were we? All right. Well, here, let's stop laughing because he's fucked up on coke. He goes to rob Cheers Tavern and he ends up shooting the bartender at Melvin John Otterstrom in the face, killing him. And Ronnie makes off with less than a hundred fucking dollars too. Then Ronnie goes to fucking Melvin John Otterstrom's funeral. And he goes to fucking Melvin John Otterstrom's funeral and pretends to be a childhood friend. What? What a dick. Like that to me is, is like, crosses the line between like you were fucked up and shot someone and you suck. But like, it's just so creepy. It's no, that's super creepy. Yeah. Sociopath. Also, how is that the same guy that puts the wallet back in the fucking mailbox and is like, sorry for your troubles? No, it's an, I don't know. That's wow. Here's a photo of, um, of where did it go? Oh, that's not the right picture. That's not the right page. So like, basically he went to this guy's funeral and like mingled enough so that he was telling people who he was. I guess. Fuck. Yeah. This is Melvin John Otterstrom. Uh, boop. Oh, look how cute he is. Um, and then, okay. So, uh, okay. Three weeks later, Ronnie gets captured at the home of his cousin. And once he's captured, Ronnie says that the shooting occurred. Because Otterstrom put up a fight. But investigators didn't find any evidence to support that. Which I'm like, it's still your fucking fault, dude. Like, even if he put up a fight for his fucking life, it's still your fault. Also, you were on coke. You don't know what's fucking going on. That's true. Like every, you, you're, no. Um, Ronnie's held in custody. His getaway driver testifies against him. So during the trial for this murder on, um, April 2nd, 1985 at the Metropolis, Metropolis? That's right. Fuck. You got it though. Third charm. Third try's a charm. Third. Wow. Cause it looks like Metropolis and then it changed. Like it could go either way in the beginning, but it's not. It's Metropolitan. You know, the Metropolin. You know that word I've known for fucking the 37 years I've been on this planet that I just didn't see. Metropolitan. Mm. Call of justice. Call of justice in Salt Lake City. So Ronnie gets a smug, someone smuggles him a fucking revolver. Revolver? Yes. Revolver at his trial and Ronnie attempts to escape. He fucking has his gun. Who did it? Well, we'll get there. Okay. Okay. Um, he, he's, he has his gun. He's immediately shot in the chest by guard, the guard Luther Hensley, but he continues on his fucking escape. Okay. He has a fucking gunshot wound to the chest. Was he still on coke? Probably. Okay. Um, he wounds an unarmed bailiff named George Nick Kirk by shooting him in the abdomen and then ran into the courtroom archives where attorneys Rob Macri and Michael Burdell are. So they're just like in the fucking archives being like, boop, boop, boop, let's go in like we love law. Yeah. Let's look at some old ones. Let's see what we can find about this. This, these stories are incredible. Yeah. And. Yeah. It's every fucking word. Yeah. Like we don't even, we're not even on trial today. Yeah. We're just loving law. Yeah. So Garner, Ronnie comes in, points the gun at them and then he aims at, um, Burdell who'd been, he was there looking up shit for his pro bono work for his church. So like you couldn't be there for like a more honest reason. Uh, and Ronnie shoots him in the eye and then runs outside of the building where he's surrounded by dozens of police often. Police. Officers. Police softeners. Fuck. Sorry. No. But that's a good one. Police softeners. It's like, it's like Woolite, but for cops. He drops the gun and yells, don't shoot. I don't have a gun, but I'm like, neither do the fucking people you just shot, you dick. Yeah, that's right. Sorry. This might be a dumb question. Okay. The guy that he shot in the eye. You just keep jumping ahead. Okay. No, no more. No more from me. Uh, he dies. Oh, I know. Sorry. Um, but the bailiff's Nick Kirk survives. Okay. Um, however, uh, he dies 11 years later and his family says it's from complications from the shot, the gunshot wound, which I'm like, yeah, you get shot in the gut or the rest of your fucking life. So I think fuck him. Yeah. Fuck Ron Ronnie. Yes, for sure. During a search of the court. Sure. During a search of the courthouse, then they find a bag of men's clothing in the basement under a woman's restroom sink. So someone had come in, stashed some clothing for his getaway, a woman, a woman. Um, and then it's believed that the gun had been taped to a water fountain on the first floor and then passed to Ronnie as he was escorted into the courthouse in the underground parking garage. So they find, um, they find the, the, the, they find his girlfriend Darcy. Um, unarmed and arrested about a mile away. And her sister, uh, karma, karma, that's what it says. She she's sentenced to eight years in prison for delivering the clothes and message in preparation for the escape attempt, but they don't know who actually gave him the gun. So she's got like gets prison. Okay. Karma. She gets this, this girlfriend's sister goes to prison. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's bullshit. Right. So, uh, let's see here. I think I have a photo of that's him with a beard on my dad. Marty looks like our therapist a little bit. Oh my God. Oh my God. He totally looks like our therapist. It's intention versus what I'm hearing your experiences. Can you turn to Karen and say that? No, it's awkward. That's the best, worst part of our therapy sessions. If we're like saying something meaningful and then he'll be like, will you turn to Georgia and say that? And then I'm like, looking at her is the most repulsive thing in that moment. I'm just like, no. And I mean like, well, for myself, we have something to talk about next week for sure. I should have said vulnerable. Upset. But you didn't. Oh my God. I bet you didn't. Oh, no! Strike 19. Well. Vince, write that down. Steven. Steven, mark that moment. That's going to be a mini-sode of just you saying that. God, that was the worst word I could have used. I'm so sorry. It's okay. I mean, I look pretty fucking ugly when I cry. Internal feelings. Impact. Got it. Intent. Let's take one more look at him. Oh, yeah. Here we go. Calm down a little. Run. Help us. The grain of the temples. Well, the thing is, I said this thing. What did you hear, Georgia, when you heard that? And then I'm like, well, I felt like I was about to faint because I have no air. Feel how warm I am right now. Are you? I really am. Ooh, are you about to? I'm about to fucking faint. Let's do this thing. Ooh, sweaty. Okay. Boop. This is a viral moment waiting to happen. Maybe I'm just embarrassed because of the word metro. What did I call it? Metropolitan. I don't remember. I don't either. No one else does either. Nope. Thanks. I'm glad they didn't happen. Okay. Bop, bop, bop. And then, okay. So, when that, okay. So, Otterstrom was, the guy in the bar was a mountain climber and a veteran of the 19th Special Forces Group of the Utah National Guard. And so is she. Thank you for your service. And the other guy, our therapist, Burdell, was a Vietnam veteran, a former engineer, and a member of the Summum Church. Don't know what that is. And so then, okay. So, they catch him back to, even though he had a fucking shot in his chest, right? June 1985, he pleads guilty to the murder of Ostrom. The jurors deliberate. Less than three hours and find him guilty of capital murder. And life without parole isn't possible. back then that didn't come around until 1992 in utah oh so they he's sentenced to death making him then utah's youngest inmate on death row and later the jurors say that if they had known about his troubled past in his childhood they maybe just if they could have given him life sentence they would have but you know they couldn't as i just said okay which is like pay attention stop making me repeat myself article okay here's a here's an insane thing and this is this is fucked up he's given the choice how he wants to be executed oh you know it's like what why do we get that choice why is that just pick your dinner and be quiet yeah you gotta choose your dinner but nope he picks his so he says quote i'd prefer to die of old age your honor but if that ain't possible i'll take the firing squad holy fuck you he is not fucking around fuck yeah and he's been shot once already so he fucking knows what it feels like right like that's the craziest part that doesn't feel good probably no i've never he wouldn't want to go back to that and yet and yet he was just like wow that's nuts so since 1976 only two other people have been executed by firing squad of the united states both in utah what i wouldn't share for the i'm kidding i would uh gary gilmore and john albert taylor um but so but this guy taylor chose the firing squad to embarrass the state but ronnie said that he just didn't want to attract attention he just won he just preferred that way to die wow so he got in a lot of trouble in prison on october on october 20th 1987 okay he's in the prison the visiting area there's a partition between him and the woman he's talking to he fucking breaks the glass partition what then they somehow gets over the partition i hope and he and the woman have sex like through the broken partition while the fucking other inmates cheered and barricaded the doors and hold on the fucking woman is his half brother's wife what what the fuck shit you what is christmas like what is the thanksgiving conversation that year my first question is let's talk about that glass yes i hope that's what i'm saying i hope they jumped over it somehow and didn't have sex on it that's the least of my the worries they used to be just a very thin pane of tiffany stained glass between the prisoners and their guests that's insanity the glass starts boning his fucking sister-in-law and the rest of the prisoners like yeah and fucking crazy right we're like that must have been like the hottest like prisoner phone call through that glass yeah they're like how was thanksgiving that was your fucking thanksgiving it's the question i want to ask you yams were there yams oh yams i mean fuck right literally then on september oh yeah then on september oh yeah then on september 23rd 1994 so he's still alive he gets drunk from alcohol that he had made in his prison toilet no thank god damn it sink which is like yeah right that's what you told people uh and he stabs another inmate richard fats thomas with a shiv that he had made from a pair of sunglasses also prisoners have sunglasses you still gotta be cool i guess you gotta protect those peepers that's right the uv rays up here are insane we'll get you this dude suffers nine puncture wounds to the face mouth arm and chest that are life-threatening but he makes a full recovery so so he's having a good time in prison it seems like he's he's really criminaling it up yeah okay cut to june 18th night 2010 2010 that you like the year that murder happened that fucking year that's your favorite year for murder so sneaky oh here's him oh that's the okay well steven put these in the wrong fucking order even oh now i'm scared it's steven's fault you were pronounced metropolitan that way metropolitan what did i say i don't remember well that's your metropolin thank you for metropolin it's so good uh i don't want to i have a picture of him like back like in 2010 but i'm scared that steven left one of those photos out and i don't want to go to your picture everyone close your eyes real quick i think you just put it in the wrong order should i do it who cares i don't want to out here okay which part i don't even know what mine are just go ahead okay there he is oh no you've ruined my thing no no that's that's ronnie bring ren back up i have some complaints that's ronnie this is named ren you guys um okay so boop yeah i'm sorry can you go back really quick yeah he looks like he looks like matt walsh the guy on veep oh he does look like that look at him think about it get hbo if you have to oh god yeah it's matt walsh veep all right so finally in 2010 ronnie is now 49 years old it's been a quarter of a century that he's been on death row which is a long fucking time well um it's 25 years um finally but he i'm gonna ignore that no ren ren i'm gonna ignore you finally he's fucking at on june 18 2010 he's eliminated uh okay wait let me tell you something no no no no no no i read that wrong but by 2004 utah had eliminated the firing squad there it is there it is there is someone in this audience who is not a fan of the show oh my god doesn't know what's happening and he's like this is fucking wrong yeah what's happening is wrong i'm dizzy right now so i'm gonna blame everything on that this podcast great um they so utah was like maybe we shouldn't let's eliminate the firing squad by 2004 as a method of execution but convicts who were sentenced before that date are still allowed to have that option if they want to pick it yeah okay so they're like you can like it doesn't it doesn't retroactively they're not allowed to pick it yeah okay so they're like you can like it doesn't retroactively they're not like they're grandfathered they're not like they're grandfathered they're not like they're grandfathered into being shot yes yeah i get it exactly into being shot yes yeah i get it exactly into being shot yes yeah i get it exactly what you know you're in charge and you can what you know you're in charge and you can what you know you're in charge and you can change that right no this isn't some change that right no this isn't some change that right no this isn't some weird movie where you have to get shot weird movie where you have to get shot weird movie where you have to get shot this way yeah so just after midnight uh this way yeah so just after midnight uh this way yeah so just after midnight uh five anonymous executioners uh they're five anonymous executioners uh they're five anonymous executioners uh they're behind a curtain and a ported brick wall behind a curtain and a ported brick wall behind a curtain and a ported brick wall don't know what that is uh ported ported don't know what that is uh ported ported don't know what that is uh ported ported ported ported one rifle had a blank round ported ported one rifle had a blank round ported ported ported one rifle had a blank round so no one would be like it was me so no one would be like it was me so no one would be like it was me you know what i mean they didn't know he you know what i mean they didn't know he you know what i mean they didn't know he is pronounced dead at 12 17 a.m is pronounced dead at 12 17 a.m is pronounced dead at 12 17 a.m and uh after he was executed the and uh after he was executed the and uh after he was executed the daughter of one of the victims said uh daughter of one of the victims said uh daughter of one of the victims said uh i hope my sister who just passed away i hope my sister who just passed away i hope my sister who just passed away and my father and all of the other and my father and all of the other and my father and all of the other victims are waiting for his sorry ass i victims are waiting for his sorry ass i victims are waiting for his sorry ass i hope they get to go down after him hope they get to go down after him hope they get to go down after him whoa whoa whoa are you allowed to do that can you go are you allowed to do that can you go are you allowed to do that can you go back and forth i feel like we're i feel back and forth i feel like we're i feel back and forth i feel like we're about to write the new marvel movie like we're about to write the new marvel movie like we're about to write the new marvel movie yeah yeah yeah i'll pull you out of hell something like i'll pull you out of hell something like i'll pull you out of hell something like that we're gonna go down after him that we're gonna go down after him that we're gonna go down after him they're gonna go they're gonna go they're gonna go get out of here they're gonna beat him up in get out of here they're gonna beat him up in get out of here they're gonna beat him up in hell yeah they're like we're hanging out in hell yeah they're like we're hanging out in hell yeah they're like we're hanging out in heaven it's great up here let's do a heaven it's great up here let's do a a fucking quick tourist. They're like, this is my laminate. I get to go back up when this is done. We're just gonna. That's a piece of fucking ass. We're just gonna kick some asshole's ass really quick. Yeah. And then we get to go back up. No, no, no. I don't stay. I'm not staying here. I was good. I hope they get to go down after him. Fuck. Yeah. And that's the story of fucking Ronnie Lee Gardner. Wow. Thank you, guys. Thanks. I told you he was a dick. So, it was a real, like, rollercoaster, though, with that guy. It was. I mean, I don't know. You were here, you were there, you were here, then you were back there. It's always very complex, these stories. You know, it's an emotional rollercoaster. It really is. Of metropolitan size. Almost the size of a metropole. I just start using that word incorrectly because I just want to prove that I know how to say it. You're, like, looking at a charcuterie board and you're like, is this metropolitan? Cheese? Pull it out anywhere. We're back. Do you have any updates? I do. Ronnie Lee Gardner's brother, Randy Gardner, has been openly against the death penalty, especially by Firing Squad. He's partnered with Worthrise's death penalty action faith leaders and community advocates to combat Idaho's recent pivot to making Firing Squad executions the state's primary method for carrying out death sentences. That's not good. It's not good. That's aggro. Yeah. Idaho is one of several states that has recently brought back Firing Squad executions amid drug shortages and legal challenges to lethal injections. That's not the solution, friends. It's not the answer. What that is is the fast track to fascist death squads. Hello, America. Hi, you voted for this. Anyway, well, half of you, less than half of you did. Not these guys. Not us. Not these. Not a murderino, for God's sake. Murderinos are part of the solution. Everyone knows that. All right, well, let's get into Karen's story now, shall we? This is the Salt Lake City Library hostage incident. Two Aussie lesbian lovers touch down in 1990s London and become the toast of British high society. One of them touts an exclusive investment opportunity, and soon the money is rolling in. Rich businessmen and England's horse-loving elite fall under their seductive spell. They even meet Queen Elizabeth. From USG Audio, Blanchard House, and Exactly Right Media, this is Royal Swindle. Listen to the entire series now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My story tonight is one of my classic, it was an episode of I Survived. Uh-huh. As most of us do, I have all of mine on my DVR, and I was laying on my couch for 19 hours the other day and not taking care of things. And this episode rolled up, and they were like, Salt Lake City, Utah. And then I was just like, my homework. Yeah, and you're like, I have to sit here. Yes. That's the best. This is working. This just turned into borderline clinical. This is clinical depression. Now I'm at work. That's how easy it is. It's the best. In the podcast world. When there's a podcast about the murder you're going to do that week, and you're like, I got to clean my bathroom instead of just sitting in front of my computer. Yes. I have a weird way of enjoying myself. I mean. Cleaning my toilet. Okay. So. It is satisfying, though. Do you ever use one of those bleach, like, things you stick in the back of the toilet, and then the water is just bleachy all the time? No. Get into it. They're the best. Mm. You know every once in a while you just have like a ring of mold where you're like, what's coming out of me? I'm disgusting. No. Well, I mean, not like a, not crazy. It's just you see it forming where you're like, is something off? Something's going on. Something's happening. Just get one of those fucking Clorox bleach pills or whatever they're called. Do you take, you swallow it? Yep. And then you're like, got it. Okay, I'll do it. Karen told me to take a bleach pill and then I wouldn't have mold coming out of me anymore. It looks kind of like a big sweet tart. If you put it on some tart, an avocado toast, it's really delicious with a fried egg on top. Just get some, like maybe a coconut oil on top so it just absorbs the intense chemicals. Where were we? No idea. We are. In the metropolis. Definitely hallucinating at this point. Okay. So, but then, so I watch it. It's great. Then good old Steve. Right. So, Ray Morris sends me a 2020 episode about the same story, which of course is more in depth and actually has reenactors, which is the greatest. And so now I'm going to retell you a 2020 episode like I used to retell you I survived episodes. This is plagiarism. It's like a mashup. That's right. That's right. It's like, um, it's like a layer cake where my knowledge began on an episode of I survived. Folded in the 2020. And now this is just like, we're all at the campfire together. And I'm like, remember TV? Okay. Listen to this. You eat. Is the cake at the campfire? Yep. Okay, good. Yeah. We get to have cake and bleach pills. It's going to be the best camp out ever. It is the Salt Lake City library hostage crisis. Do you remember? You guys had a library hostage crisis? Dude, did they fucking ever? First of all. Let's just take a look at the Salt Lake City public library circa whenever Steven found this picture. Let's see. This is the old branch. I believe. Is that correct? It's the old branch. It looks old. That's just the colors. That's so seventies. Look at that poor building on stilts. The building's like, what do you expect from me? You couldn't just put me on the ground. The architect. The architect's like, we're pinning all of our hopes on you. Oh man. This says future learning. Um, the Salt Lake City public library is a five story building. So on Saturday, March 5th, 1994, uh, it wasn't black and white. It was the early nineties. So it's like a, it was like a sepia tone. Yeah. Kind of with, um, with like neon, uh, spray paint, fake graffiti on the bottom and tilt it to the side. Yep. Uh, very beach house. Um, so there's hundreds of people at the library on Saturday and, um, people there for obviously all different kinds of reasons. Like what? Well, you know, reading, being quiet, sleeping. Free coffee? Free. Do they serve coffee? Some of them do. I don't know. I bet they don't do that. Probably not here. Probably not here. Cause you don't want to spill coffee. Oh, sure. Free water. I don't know. Oh, and they're not allowed to have water. No. Um, we're teasing you. Um, Salt Lake City is like, that's not us, man. That's not us. Uh, so there's a couple there, Michael and Judith Greer, and they came down to the library because there was a Tibetan Mandela ceremony being done that day. And that's, you know, that's your favorite. Yeah. Um, my favorite kind of ceremony, right? Of all libraries. Of all library ceremonies. It's up there. You guys need to try one one day. Top three. Top three. So it's the, uh, Tibetan monks who are putting colored sand, blowing, they're like scraping and blowing colored sand into this almost as beautiful as this rug, uh, design, uh, at the library. Well, how fucking badass is that? I love it. Those are the kind of events that they have. Cause it's culturally open to everyone. They're like, check out what happened. Check. Is that the top? Check out what happened? Oh my God. Who's a librarian here? Use that tagline. Take this, take it to your meeting on Monday. You have a meeting on Monday? Take it. It's yours. To the, uh, to the librarians union meeting. Take that down there. You're going to get a raise. I bet they've never used the pun. Check it out at the library before. I bet it's never happened with a big check mark. So the Greers are there watching this beautiful sand ceremony. And also there's of course, Gwen page, who's been a librarian is Gwen. Gwen, are you here? Gwen, Gwen was in the, I survived and in the 2020. So, you know, she is a key fucking player in this story. She is just bouncing around. She is a, a lifelong dedicated librarian in the most hushed toned way you can be. It's like, you can fucking see her readers on a chain. She's like, I'll tell you where the book is. The book is this time, but you have to find it for yourself. The next time, you know, Gwen. Yeah. Okay. So she's, you know, reforming the Dewey decimals. Librarians like to get up to, uh, and one of her coworkers says, you gotta go see the fucking Mandela ceremony before it ends. It's amazing. She's like, you're so right. So she hauls ass on up. I don't know. I don't know what we're doing. Are you, is this word for word? This is how they say it on the 2020. Um, Oh shit. Look at this. There she is. Gwen, Gwen, Gwen, a nice moths, a nice moth. She's doing jewel tones. Cause she knows that that can act like makeup sometimes for you. That does a maroon jacket does the work. For you, but you gotta have a pop of color, but you've got to get a good, some nice hot blue, electric blue in there. I love her. You still love to live librarian to the hilt librarian. You Steven paused it right when she was going, she does that throughout the interview, just shushing cameramen, shushing interviewers. I'd fucking love that so much. The sound guy's like, I can't, I can't with this librarian, I we're getting a lot of shushing. Okay. So as Gwen heads up to watch this amazing, cool thing that I would love to see in real life and made me cry when I saw it in the thing, um, she notices, of course, because observe and report librarian style, she notices there's a scraggly guy standing by the reference desk. He's wearing. A backpack. He looks real like edgy and she, she clocks it, but then she's like, I guess. to go see him at Della Ceremony. So she just shushed him really hard and kept on moving. Okay. She put her shush scent on him to like mark him for later. Yes. It was just a little yellow chalk on his pant leg. Come back and shush him later. About a half an hour. We're going to reveal all the library secrets tonight. I know, they're so mad right now. There's so many. So she passes this way. This is the way they set it up on 2020. I bet you they didn't all pass like it was a very well choreographed play. But she passes him and then this scraggly guy turns to the man standing next to him and pushes a manila envelope like onto his chest and goes, I need you to mail this for me. Give this to the papers and have a nice life. Mine's going to be short. And then he turns around and pulls out a gun. And then he pulls out a curling iron. What? And then he jumps on a table and he yells, everybody, listen up. This is a bomb. He holds the curling iron up. This is a bomb. Nobody move. If I let go of this switch, this whole place blows up. So it was what they call a dead man switch. He's literally holding open a curling iron. So if he lets it go, that's when the bomb goes off. So that if anything happens to him, everybody dies. That's like his insurance. Do you think everyone like laughed at first because they're like, look, he's, he's joking. That guy's joking. I can see the cord of that curling iron, sir. That's curling irons aren't bombs. Okay. I would know. Fuck. Yeah. Okay. So, and then he's, and he's kind of like, obviously, people, he, you know, the guns like this, the curling irons up like this, everybody probably 10 feet and back are just like, goodbye. And they piece out of there as quickly and in as organized fashion as possible. I'm sure. Down four escalators. Oh, man. Five story library. That's the worst escape route is an escalator. Yeah, because it's just so slow. You have to stand there, escaping, escaping, escaping. Almost there. Oh, we have almost escaped music. Really nice music playing behind you. Watch your shoelaces. And then someone's like, my shoelaces. That's the only way anybody gets caught is if their shoelace gets stuck in it. Yeah. Oh, I just do want to say that. So the bad guy, this is the reenactor that from 2020, there is Stephen could find no pictures of the actual bomber Clifford Draper. Oh, my God. But this guy, this reenactor actually does a very good job. He has very large eyes. So he's scary. They have a lot of like brown eyeliner around his eyes. And he's doing a very realistic, crazy person who's who, who, you know, somebody that's like on the edge that's in public, but like people aren't noticing him, but you're like, but there is something up with that guy. And then boom, he's up on the table. Okay. And, you know, then there has to be like whispering to yourself and all this kind of stuff. And I was like, oh, that's, this is going to be cheesy as fuck. Well, it wasn't. This guy did a fucking great job. His name. Did you IMDb him? Yes, I did. His name is Michael B. Woods. And you've seen him. Yes. Ow, my teeth. He's cute. You've seen him on Empire. You've seen, he's had a two episode character arc on Chicago PD. He's one of your favorite actors. He's not, he's not just a crazy guy in the library reference deck. He's one of the greatest actors I've ever seen. A total of, I believe, nine, ten people altogether end up in the room. He doesn't get his 16, which I do agree is a better number, but it's just how it worked out. So, page 11. Okay. So, he makes them all sit at the conference room table, but he makes them turn their chairs out so that they can't look at each other. And he keeps screaming, don't look at me, over and over. And he's just doing this with a gun the entire, just constantly. Bombing. Bomb gun. So, everyone is just, obviously, insanely freaked out. So, our guy, Lloyd Prescott, walks into the conference room. So, he had called, I think he had called, like, two other women in, like, get in here, you have to get in here right now. And Lloyd Prescott cuts them off, walks into the room, and holding up the manila envelopes, and goes, what am I supposed to do with this? And then he shuts up. And he shuts the door behind him so that the people who are supposed to go into the room don't go in. He cuts them off. And then, of course, the bomber's just like, what, who are you? And he's freaking out or whatever. He's like, I said that was supposed to be mailed. And he was like, could you stop pointing that gun at me? I just, I don't even know. And he's just playing it real low key. So, he's not coming in in any way cop style. He's like, someone just handed me this envelope. What am I supposed to do? He pretended like he didn't know why he was in there. Badass. Yes, insane. So. So then, the bomber tells Gwen, the librarian, to go get him a phone. And if she's not back in 15 seconds, he'll kill somebody. 15 seconds for a phone in 1994? Yes. Yes. That's not enough time. That's very high stress. Yeah, because there's no cell phones, kids. No, you're going to need a phone. Gwen immediately had to think of, where's the one phone that has the longest silver cord? Yeah. That I can just run across this fucking library with. Exactly. She does it. Of course, it's Gwen. Damn. It's Gwen. She nails it. You're right. I don't know why I doubted her. Yeah, you can't. Shit, sorry, Gwen. Do we need to look at her again? No, no. Why would you? Oh, you want to? Gwen! So relaxing. Okay. Goodbye. Oops. Uh-oh. It's there forever. Now, okay. This is how stressful it is. Okay. All right. Uh, uh, uh, okay. Um, end of that page. The pacing of this is amazing. So, oh, he tells, Lloyd tells the bomber he's an accountant, and he's just kind of like playing it small. He's like, I spill coffee sometimes. I'm just, I'm a numbers guy. Anyway, I don't know how to mail things. Meanwhile, of course, he's wearing a, he's wearing a, he's wearing a, he's wearing a like a jacket, like a windbreaker, and he's got his gun hidden underneath it. Um, so then, uh, Draper tells everybody that he's going to barricade the room. Um, he has a lady shut the curtains. He does this weird thing where he keeps having people do things for him. He's not doing it. Probably because he's holding a fucking curling iron. But, um, so he, he asks Gwen what time they entered the room. Immediately, Gwen's like, 10 to 10. And then he sets a timer for 72 hours. So he's like, I'm going to do this. And he has like this amount of time that he, that they're going to do this, which is a long fucking time. Um, and in the reenactment, that's when he says, my name's Clifford Draper. Let's get some attention. I doubt that happened. Um, uh, in reality, Clifford Draper was a veteran and he was a paranoid schizophrenic who had gone off his meds long ago. He was originally from Arkansas, but now he lived in a boarding house that was like down the street from the city. Um, so he gets Gwen to call the police and explain to the police what's going on. Um, so she says, I'm being held hostage in the Salt Lake City library with nine other people. Um, and the police say, we want, uh, to connect you. We want him to talk to the hostage negotiator. And Draper goes, fucking batch it. No, no, no. Hang up the phone. Screaming, screaming. Then he makes Gwen give the phone to Michael Greer and he says, now you're my phone man now. Um, so he. He makes Michael Greer call the local classic rock radio station Z93. Shut up. Yes. For real. Cause he's going to take it to the people. He's not fucking around with the police anymore. Utah? Yeah. Z93. It's the station everyone at work can agree on. Right? Cause everyone loves Journey. So Michael Greer has to call the radio station. It's the weekend DJ. So it's somebody, um, who's a part-timer. She's just in the reenactment. She's got headphones on. She's like kicking back the most relaxed DJ you've ever seen. And she picks up the call and live on the air. Michael Greer has to say, I'm being held hostage at the Salt Lake city library. And our hostage taker wants his demands read on the air. And the weekend DJ goes, uh, I don't have time for this and hangs up the phone. I mean, who wouldn't? You're like, fuck you teenagers. You goddamn teenagers making my DJ life a living hell. Um, no, we won't play Devo. This is Z93. Classic rock. Led Zeppelin and Led Zeppelin. That's right. Classic rock block. Meanwhile, rock block. Rock block. It's a two for Tuesday. That's right. But it's a weekend. This was Saturday. What's the Saturday one? Several songs Saturday. There you go. There you go. Nailed that. If you're a DJ, you can take that. You can have that. Yes. For a nominal fee. Meanwhile, across town, Trisha Griffith, who is the program director at Z93. Trisha. Trisha, a young lady in the nineties directing some radio programs. Girl. Do it. Do it. She's at breakfast with her friend. Uh-huh. We call it brunch. Was she having toast? What kind of toast was she having? It was brunch. This was a toast situation. She herself was, had already taken the toast masterclass. Oh. So she was like whipping up four different kinds. She was like, I'm going to have one slice sourdough and one slice rye. Shit. It's how we do it. I am so high off this thin air. I can't believe it. It's fucked up. Are you? It's the greatest. I totally want to move here. All right. So anyhow. Okay. We'll talk about it after. Okay. So she is, she gets the call. The weekend DJ calls her boss after she hangs up and goes, Hey, so this just happened. And now I have a weird feeling about it. I don't think I did the right thing. I might've fucked up. I think, uh, I think I might be on. I think I might be on probation. I'm in serious DJ trouble right now. Trisha drops her fork. I think, uh, I think I might be on, I think I might be on probation. Trisha drops her fork loudly, runs out of the brunch, spills her coffee, but takes her toast. Right. Boom. Important things. Meanwhile, we're cutting back to the conference room. Now this gets super dark. The bomber passes around a legal pad and has everybody write their name down and the name of their next of kin. Ooh. So he's doing a lot of shit like that where he's basically like, here's how I'm going to kill you. This is the, these are the different, like none of us are getting out of here. A lot of, a lot of shit like that. Um, also there's a woman in, in the conference room with everybody who's a diabetic and she's starting to feel the effects. She has to take insulin five times a day and she tells him, look, I'm a fucking diabetic. She didn't say fucking and, uh, I have to take my medicine. And he was like, well, if you didn't bring your medicine. Then that's on you. And someone else in the room is like, she could die. And he's like, well, then that's just how it is. And then he goes, or maybe I'll trade her out for a cop. I've always wanted to kill a cop. And Lloyd Prescott's like, still an accountant. Yep. Loving them. Numbers. I'm an accountant. Oh, April 15th. Yeah. Hey, you're so much tax day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, what are you guys talking about? The police. Meanwhile, over at the SWAT central, the metropolitan SWAT offices, yes, uh, the SWAT Sergeant Ken Hanson is prepping for the Hoski rustage. So the Hoski rustage, can we get some oxygen please? Are you okay? Mommy, mommy, mommy. Mommy. Mommy. Mommy. - I, the Hoscue-res-kage? - Oh no. - This is just a little Hoscue, it's just me and Ken Johnson. - There she goes, there she goes now. - Shhh, it's a secret. - It just starts in delight to me. - Gee, holy fuck. - Now you know how I feel all the time. Wasn't it the worst? That's why it was so hot. I kept saying stupid shit. It really sounded so right. I know. I feel like it's always been Hoski restage. That was fun for me because it wasn't me. Doesn't it feel good when it's not you? What a goddamn relief. Okay. Deep breaths. Please get serious. Deep breaths real fast? Is that how you. Right? Shallow, fast breaths? If you just stand up real quick. Yeah. And screaming? Yeah. Okay. Meanwhile. This made me laugh so loudly when I watched it today. So at one point, Draper looks at everybody and goes, I want all of you to strip down. What? Strip down naked. It's going to be that kind of party. This one girl who has been super in the reenactment the whole time, she's been like, what? She's always the girl they cut to when they want to show people being upset or worried. Like, why? She has long hair, very down, the girl next to her face. And when he says that, she turns around and goes, I am not doing that. That's where she puts her foot down. And then he didn't make them do it. What? She should have been like, and you're letting us out. I cannot tell you how much I would have been that girl. And I would have been like, definitely shoot me. I am not taking my pants off in any way at the library with all these nice people around me. Wow. I am not doing that. You with your guns and your bombs. So awesome. So then he just makes them take their jackets off. Why? Oh. Why? Because she is. I am not doing that. But he has a gun under his jacket. That's exactly right, Georgia. I've been listening. So you, like Gwen, have been listening. Okay. So he makes Gwen, of course, go around and take everyone's jacket from them and then put them in the corner. Oh, Gwen has to be the coat girl now? Gwen is. The coat check girl? Gwen's like his gopher a little bit. Like his helper. He keeps looking to her. And I'm sure she's sitting there. Because she's probably the whole time looking at him like, is this really what you're doing now? So he's like, fine. You go get. The coat. So as she's walking around the outside of the table, when she gets to Lloyd, Lloyd gives her the old, like just a real quick, quick ding, ding with the eyes. Not my coat. And she doesn't miss a beat. I encourage everyone in your life. Please always look for small, tiny clues that people are trying to fucking give you. Because what is worse than being the person or experiencing the person where you're like, don't take my coat. And they're like, why don't you want me to take? Take your coat. Can't you just hand me your coat? Oh, man. We've all been in those situations where it's, don't ask me why I don't want to take my shoes off in your house. My feet smell. I don't want to have to tell you that. Yes. If I'm telling you something, but my eyes are wide, catch on, God damn it. Okay. That was just a sidebar of advice. I screamed at you angrily. Just how I do it. I am not doing that. So she passes Lloyd. Then Lloyd says to Draper, can I leave my coat on? I'm cold. And Draper, of course, is like, yeah, if I take your coat off and loses his shit. And so he does it. He takes his coat off in this way where he's able to pull real quick, pull his, uh, his shirt bottom. I was going to say shirt sleeves. What else is there? I barely caught myself untuck his shirt, that tail of his shirt, um, pull it out. Shirt tails. That's right. Uh, pulls that out to cover the gun. Cool. Right in time. Okay. So, uh, and meanwhile, no one in the room knows that he is a cop. No one, everyone is like, we're here with this crazy guy and super Gwen, the librarian. And that's about an accountant and that's all we've got. And that really cold accountant. What's his? Why would he risk all of our lives because he's cold? I hate his gut. What a dick. Okay. So then he, he makes everybody, uh, Draper makes everybody read his list of demands. He hands them out and he goes like this, you, this is why I'm doing this. And if you read this now, now you'll understand. And then everyone gets it and is like, oh, great. Great. I mean, a little, a little reason here. Uh. Oh, because the letter says, among other things that he will not negotiate. Uh, he demands to be reinstated into the national guard. Um, he wants a military doctor stripped down to his shorts to come and bring him sedatives and methamphetamine. Ooh, that's not a good mix. Yeah. It's like, um, it's a, it's a version of a speedball. Um, but at the library, uh, he demands to be paid in gold and platinum bullion, which is bad-ass. Um. It's a finance, it's actually, one of the accountant was like, financially, that's actually a stat. You can't go wrong with platinum bullion. It's really, you can take that anywhere. Uh, and then he demands to be flown to New Zealand and he wants a full presidential pardon from Bill Clinton. So it, it really bums everybody out as they read it. Meanwhile, over. Z 93. Okay. Cutting back because Tricia Griffith has arrived and she's like, I'm going to be here. Now the weekend DJ doesn't have to deal with the hard shit anymore. Cut the blues traveler where this is fucking happening. It's like harmonica hostage. So she sits there and at the like DJ, uh, deck, she sits there and ingesting. In case the hostage, the dude, the guy, the bomber calls back, which he does cool. He's screaming, do not hang up on me, put me on the air or everybody dies. So she had the weekend, uh, DJ go call the cops and be like, uh, you know, he called once before, what do we do or whatever? And the cops had told the weekend DJ tell that do not put him on the air, but of course, Tricia's talking to him. And she's like. Like, no, he's going to kill these people. I, there's no doubt in my mind. So she was like, I'm going to put them on the air because I don't want these people to die, making decisions. She was, she was going full program director on his ass, but before she did that, just, which is great. She thought I'm going to try one thing. So she says to Draper on the phone, the button, uh, to put you on the air is broken and the engineer won't be back till Monday and he buys it. Because we all know that there's a strip of buttons that light up and if that one is broken, the air isn't there and the engineer is gone. The engineer is skiing again as he does. So he buys it. He tells her they have less than 72 hours or everyone dies. Then he makes Michael Greer call, call back and read the list of hostage names. And next of kin. Um, so that when, uh, he kills everybody, she can notify the family. Oh, sorry. You guys like, uh, did you say you guys like him? I totally like him. I don't know. He's just nice. And he listens. He likes all the same bands as me. Like blues traveler, makes the best toast. Oh, have you ever had Jesus's toast? It's very small and round and there is, it tastes like glue. That's a reference. I get it. I'm making a Catholic reference. Uh, no, it has the face of Jesus, uh, burnt, toasted into it. He has his own, nevermind. He burns his own face into his own toast. God bless him. Literally. All right. So Clifford is telling Tricia this super fucked up, very upsetting news. And Tricia gets this idea and she says, Clifford, can I ask you a question? And. And he says, yes, but he's screaming it or something, waving a gun at the phone. And she says, what can I play for you? Oh. Right. So smart. It's so smart because music heals the world. Yep. All right. Pull out an acoustic guitar, play seven Nirvana songs. He fucking asked for more deep cuts for them to stop playing the same songs all the time. No less commercials. What? Yep. That's the most reasonable answer I've ever heard. It's what we all want from Z93. Even. No. ever even off your meds you're like here's what's going wrong yes radio station i can see this and i'm holding a curling iron in the library okay meanwhile on the other side of the conference table sue ellison the diabetic is now going into severe uh she's entering into diabetic shock um everyone in the room is saying please let her go he says no way um uh and oh so he's uh draper's getting more and more agitated this is this is over hours and hours and hours have passed and at one point he is he keeps switching hands because he's holding the curling iron open it's like he has to grip it he's been gripping it for hours he's like so bummed that he made that his yeah it's like couldn't you just said that you know you plug it in yeah yeah yeah how about a straightener yeah they just sit there yeah um so he asks michael greer he's like can you get the duct tape out of my backpack i i need to fix the bomb so everyone's just like okay um so they're putting pieces of duct tape over the bomb and uh as um oh and then he so then he the next plan is he goes somebody's got to die they need the police aren't responding the way i want them to we have to figure out who has to die so he tells gwen to go get this rope he says i'm gonna cut this rope into into all these different lengths whoever gets the shortest piece dies no yes so gwen talks about it she's like she took forever to walk over and get the rope she says yeah she was the slowest walker of all time and then as she uh she oh she goes to cliff clifford and says um i need how am i going to cut this i don't i can't cut this there's no scissors in here so he puts the gun down to get the knife out of his backpack yeah and the second he does that that's when lloyd knows this is his fucking time to shine he pulls that fucking gun and so sorry but really quick they talk about this which i love he had taken some kind of a bomb class so he knew if the bomb did go off in the room he would be able to get the gun out of his backpack and he would be able to get the gun out of his backpack and he would be able to get the gun out of his backpack and he would be able to get the gun out of his backpack if everybody was under the table they could probably because it's the size of the bomb and you know he's talking about the type that it probably was that bombs like that they go off up so if everyone was under the plane of the table there was a less chance that they would all be injured okay so he fucking stands up when he sees that his hands are between weapons fucking stands up and screams sheriff's office everybody get down all the people in the up so if everyone was under the plane of the table they could probably because it was the size of the bomb and he would be able to get the gun out of his backpack and he would be able to get the gun out of his backpack up so if everyone was under the plane of the table they could probably because it was the size of the bomb and he would be able to get the gun out of his backpack so if everyone was under the plane of the table they could probably because it was the size of the bomb and he would be able to get the gun out of his backpack Glass, wood, elevators. All the elements. Books. Escalators? No escalators. Good. We're done with those. Better for escaping. Absolutely. Is it nearby? Yeah, it's on 400 South. Oh, sure. Great, perfect. It's like two blocks, five to 20 blocks that way. Okay, we'll walk. You know what? Let's go fucking see Gwen tomorrow. Yes. Tell her she's on. 2,000 people. She's on the list. What's her last name? Is Paige? Books? Pages? Come on. Fuck it. You're killing it already, Holly. Thanks. I'm going to tell you, you have nothing to worry about. I took a Xanax. What'd you say? I took a Xanax. She took a Xanax. No alcohol, just a Xanax. Prescribed by my doctor. Amazing. I took a Xanax the last time. God damn it. Do you want to be the third? Do you want to be a member of this black club? I've been dying. I mean, I'm like, can we be best friends? Yeah, sure. We are. It's already happening. Okay. Okay. I'm there. Okay. What's your hometown? It's really sad. So let's bring it down from where we are. Okay. Well, why'd you say that Xanax thing then? Sorry. So I live in Wyoming right now, but I used to live in Sanpete County. It's in the center of the state. Okay. And I went back a year ago to visit my family. My sister's in Wyoming. My sister's in law and a friend of mine who had moved across the street from my sisters. So we had planned to have dinner on Thursday night. We got home. Her lights were all off. So we're like, we'll hit her up on Friday. That night we were out chain smoking. What? What? Chain smoking. Chain. What brand? It's kind of embarrassing, but it's Camel Crush. What's that mean? You crush it. And it becomes fucking menthol. That's right. It's amazing. Menthol cigarettes will kill you immediately. That's what I'm going for. I'm ready to go. No, I'm just kidding. They're delicious. They're fresh. They're not delicious. I love them. Okay. So, um, my friend, Cammy, um, she was engaged, um, and that night we were outside and it 's wildlife outside. There's cows and chickens and cats and all sorts of animals. And we hear, we heard a lot of noises and we thought it was just the wildlife and it wasn't. It was, it was our friend Cammy and she had, she got murdered by her fiance and it was about a hundred feet from where we were and we were right there and I had just started listening to your podcast. And I was probably listening to it while it happened because I had gone to sleep at about midnight and she, um, the police think it was about one o'clock and it was one of the hardest things in my life. But you know, good things happen. People survive and Cammy was a wonderful person and you know, um, he, her has, her fiance was arrested the next day. He told them that she had been with us. And had been in a car accident and walked home and then got in the bath and he got up in the morning and she was dead, but he had done it with a hammer and a shovel just, it was bad. But they knew that, right? Like they knew he was lying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We had to answer some questions, but yeah. It was tough. Yeah. But, and I, I still feel really guilty about it, but you shouldn't feel guilt. I mean, I get it, but yeah, how, sorry. How long ago was this? It'll be a year in March. Oh wow. Yeah. That's tough. Yeah. But I love you guys and I love you guys. You get to smoke as many menthols as you want to. Yeah. I'm shaking, smoking back to Wyoming. But everyone's going to have a menthol cigarette tonight in memory of Cammy, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have to. Cammy, we smoke together. We took a smoking cessation class together. So we quit smoking. Oh. Together. Oh man. Well, you guys crushed it. Oh my God. We crushed it. Holly, that's amazing. Thank you so much for being brave and coming up and- Thank you. You're amazing. Holly, everybody. Holly. Fuck. Shit. And we're back. Karen, you want to give us any updates on the series? No. No. No. I don't. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Okay. Okay. Do you have any updates on the story? There are some updates, actually. Kami Mae Edmonds' fiance, Anthony Christensen, pled guilty to her murder and obstruction of justice in 2020, and he did admit that he beat her to death and tried to stage her death as a car crash. In March of 2020, Christensen was sentenced to two terms of five years to life and a third term of one to 15 years in Utah State Prison. Kami's mother, Tammy Coates, later started the Kami Mae Foundation to raise awareness about domestic violence. And you can find out more about the Kami Mae Foundation at kamimaefoundation.weebly.com. Wow. Okay. So let's end this episode that was originally called Live at Kingsbury Hall in Salt Lake City by naming it something we would name it today. For example, maybe we would call this episode. The Zombie Contingent. I wish there was just a zombie. Where's the zombie section? It would be incredible. at our live show. Just like, you know, we're going to do a zombie section. We're going to do a zombie section. Yay! Oh, we'd have to call it the smell of raves, of course. The smell of raves. Yeah. That's a conversation that needs to continue. Screamers Keepers, of course. That was a good one. Shush Scent. Yeah. And of course, Better for Escaping. Always. Well, thanks for listening, guys. Let's go back to today. We'll be right back after this. We'll be right back. you