Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 112: Galore Galore!

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break now have a KitKat hello hello and welcome to rewind with karen and georgia this is the show where we recap our early episodes with new case info and old feelings today we're rewinding episode 112 which we named galore galore this episode came out on march 15th 2018 right let's listen to the intro of episode 112 hi hello karen welcome georgia to my house my favorite med that's there we are when we do the switch off thing it immediately feels like i'm in second grade i immediately want to ruin it it's do you mean like just say the line that isn't your line yeah because i hate it i know it's really dumb like blow it all up to the moon you know yeah it's that that that's the feeling i get too but uh but also it's so easy to follow it is and you just know what to do and it's catchy and there's a jingle kind of reminds me it reminds me camp oh my favorite camping camping stories um do you oh i have a right off the well no you want to write off the bat this thing corrections corner myself get out in front of even the show itself to correct yourself at last i just want to say someone pointed out to me on twitter last week during my murder i said the word transvestite i should have said transgender and i think even in my mind i wasn't totally like clear on on the differences yeah i think the person who wrote to us and and lots of people were saying what a good call in and not a call out the person said it's the modern phrase is trans yeah so i screwed that up and i 100 will do my best to move forward and in just do it right well here's the thing and it was was so such a lovely lovely phrase tweet but um i have i don't know like i when someone says you know the common parlance is trans i i just am speaking from what i've known from when i heard people talk about it so it's like we do need those updates absolutely and like uh you know i think i copied and pasted some fucking thing from wikipedia and just was reading it and i need to stop and think about it when i'm doing shit like that and i know i know even though i think i'm like it was so hard about being corrected when you think you're fucking liberal and woke as fuck and i'm like i don't know i don't know i don't know it's so hard to be like i didn't screw up i support everyone right you can still screw up and it's okay and also it's just it's just that fine tuning of it's not a massive screw-up it's just a person going oh that just i don't it makes me feel discluded or it makes me feel bad or it's perpetuating a negative stereotype but i 100 don't want to be part no no no there's no time for that in on this podcast of all the things we're trying to do that's the last fucking thing we're trying to do absolutely um it also i will say in that same vein in a corrections vein maybe not all the way in the corner but somebody on twitter was like hey have you guys ever talked about wind river and i was literally standing in my backyard like doing one thing and then i just wrote we did and it sent i wasn't even really thinking about it was like i was getting four things done at once we did and then she took it as like she jokingly was like i was chided but then i whatever and then i but i really meant this i was like i really didn't mean it that way of course it seemed that way it's twitter and whatever but what i did like that she was bringing up her point was what and you know and our point was when we talked about it on the podcast is wind river's such a great movie because it's finally bringing light to like the murder and missing indigenous women of america and also of canada right and then they mentioned this podcast that i had meant to mention a while ago and hadn't but so the podcast was called missing and murdered and season one i listened to and loved it called who it was about who it was titled who killed alberta williams and that was really good and the new season just came out and this one's called finding cleo and it's um hosted by and like you know made by connie walker who's an investigative reporter and an indigenous woman herself yeah so it's really it's really good i i'm gonna listen to finding cleo now but the first one who killed about alberta williams and i'm gonna listen to finding cleo now but the first one who killed about alberta williams and i'm gonna listen to finding cleo now but the first one who killed about alberta williams and i'm gonna listen to finding cleo now but the first one who killed about alberta williams was really good yeah i can't wait to listen to but you have to look up missing and murdered as the name the name of it is missing a murder right yeah um i would i like that because i was also going to say on twitter and then i was like never explain anything on twitter it's so pointless but i wanted to say like when we did our vancouver show last the last time we were on tour and we were in vancouver i wanted to do the high of the highway of the tears but the there are so many victims and there's no there's kind of no single story it's just all these disappearances and all these really sad stories so it was like i wanted to explain on twitter yeah i've never tackled that because once i started looking into it it was this expansive and they each have their they each should be their own episode like alberta williams in this one it is one of the women from the highway of tears right but it has not you know it's it maybe has nothing to do with any of the other women and and it's its own it's like you know multi-part story itself so it's so hard to each one of those cases should be it it's like it's it gets so vast it's very much like the grim sleeper yeah it had it went on for so long that there are so many people that you're talking about that you can't not under under like serve those victims and their stories i was gonna do like three of the three victims or one of the victims was it was solved when i found out that it was the serial killer and it was caught in a really cool way but then it's none of the women who this was solved about were indigenous so then i was like i'm gonna only do the highway of tears with the non-indigenous women and that doesn't sound right so i didn't do that one well that's kind of yeah that's not the point right for what that story is so it's very cool that there are people that are dedicating entire uh true crime podcast to that area and um thank you guys for who to the people who brought uh all that stuff up for us on twitter we appreciate it yeah yeah now fun times in the sunshine let's go fun let's have some fun let's go to camp we had a little campy kind of event because on the podcast i said i wanted to take a tour of jet propulsion laboratories which is a place here in um very close to where we are right now in pasadena um where they build things like the mars rover and things that they put on mars and other planets that's mars is the only one i know but so in saying that on the podcast we got some responses from people who actually worked at jpl who were like i can give you a tour and the person that i guess either steven picked or seemed the most credible maybe it was the most high end yeah yeah like we got the guy um betting it yeah yeah steven was go he was only going for the superstars of jpl um we got a guy who is uh an engineer named lou gersh and he is in charge all right listen to this shit he is in charge of the jpl and he's in charge of uh entry descent and landing systems analysis for the europa project europa being a moon of jupiter sure which georgia knew she already knew that even though i didn't go because i was sick that's right it was me it was stephen it was our friend scotty landis and we took a full-on tour of this place it's like this gorgeous college campus but only smart people which that's the way colleges should be and did you see that guy when we were walking in a building there was a guy that walked out and he was wearing a total like blues brothers suit but he had kind of like longish like early 80s guy hair and he was i was like look at that rocket scientist he's so cute like every everywhere i looked i was like that's the most fascinating person like everyone just seemed so cool and smart and they were all working on putting things onto different planets oh my god it was incredible can i say can i tell you a love story sure i know a girl named nicolette and her sheridan her like super gorgeous husband is a super smart rocket scientist loving it i think he works at jpl he was sending uh when they started first started dating he was sending listen i'm getting all of this wrong but essentially he sent a thing to a planet maybe it was the moon i don't remember but is the moon a planet or is just our moon a rock he sent it to a thing to a place and he wrote her name on the machine that was landing on the moon or jupiter or mars nicolette so it's going to be there and it's you know it stays there forever they can't send them back so he wrote her name that's like would you really like someone oh my god how sweet is that i love it like all in all just it was an incredible experience lou was the best he was the best guide we got to see the coolest things he's an incredibly friendly smart cool guy and his wife lindsay is also a listener so hi you guys and thank you so so much we actually got to shop at the jpl gift store at the end bought my dad a hat got my niece a sweatshirt got myself a sweatshirt i was gonna buy you a shirt and then i looked at it i was like this is cute you like this font and i was like really do it and then i'm like she will never wear this shirt like this is not your style you just wanted to spend money i did i lo it was so fun to shop and they had like um stephen you bought i bought i bought space ice cream i love that they haven't changed the package since we were children right yeah astronaut neon colors neapolitan ice cream and how was it it wasn't good i took one bite and i turned to karen and i was like oh this is bad but it was like that thing of like i would always see that and i'd want it and of course my dad or my mom would be like no yeah and then i finally was like i have my own money it's my life they were right they're just like oh yeah this is what substitutes as ice cream in the furthest darkest space because ice cream is good ice cream the next time you hear about any kind of a any rover of any type being landed on europa which is a moon of jupiter that's lou that's lou baby thanks lou lou and his team and everybody else at jpl the coolest the coolest scientists around the coolest can we say r.i.p stephen hawking oh very nice nice uh fold fold in and cap um i did you see my tweet where my dad texted me at 11 at 10 45 at night and goes i read a thing where stephen hawking died amazing what does that mean it he i think he meant like what amazing life he meant a bunch of stuff that he didn't write such a dad it made me laugh so hard amazing where it's like yeah you mean dying dying being a human being it is amazing i love it all right i also found out i i got some information from my dad my mom used to give my dad all the time because he used to have a jewish girlfriend when he was in his 20s hey and she she would be like i know you liked her more than me she knew her name for some reason it was like a running joke between them and last night we were talking when i called my dad to console him about his amazement about stephen hawking's death uh somehow that came up oh she because he found out she was next door neighbors with or he knew and told me she was next door neighbors with dick van dyke when she was growing up and i'm like oh so she was like rich rich and he goes oh yeah they lived in bel air and i'm like i go dad i'm going there you could have been rich a rich kid i could have been half jewish and half irish which is so badass yeah imagine yeah the confidence and the guilt um anyway so i told my dad i texted my dad that i was going to find her address and go ring the doorbell and say that i was the family's long lost daughter and he wrote don't embarrass me um anyway i'm going to embarrass my family so much on stage on friday uh i'm going to do it anyways it's not about them no it's not it's not it's about you it's about me please focus on what's important me in a jumpsuit that doesn't look good on me we're going to get you the best outfit you know we're going to do we're going to just get you know we're going to do karen we're going to get you a big chunky necklace we're going to send it at the waist we're going to belt it we're going to belt it we're going to belt it we're going to belt it and cinch it we're going to get spank's arm sleeves that's right we're going to wear you're going to wear like long gloves up to your tits it's going to be amazing you know what we're going to do we're going to send my tits out by themselves and just let them do the show opening number lead with the tits ladies absolutely um i actually thought of that where i'm like what if this is just a show where i just go out just l.a style and be like angeline cleavage and a fan across my face you could you have you hold on a second you know what we haven't talked about what did you see the thing that someone posted on twitter and they're like you were in the oh that british i don't want to talk about it oh my god it made me laugh my ass off they said you were in the observer some british like newspaper and it was only a picture of georgia i know and it's like the best photo of me it's such a good picture thank god well you know what i was thinking it's only me it's hilarious why did that happen um i one of a couple reasons but i don't think there's any pic any any decent picture of me where i'm standing like full body that i would be the same size as you and look normal next year there's a really great photo that robin von swing took of us or like yeah but it wouldn't have fit in that lineup because they were trying to fit those five people it was like five podcasts and i look like i'm hanging out with the osbournes you you look like you are on a red carpet like hollywood style i was and when i looked at for what for this for like the the food video the food taste awards like the food awards and this is like three years ago and i clearly look like that's my best i'll ever be no i doubt it um no you've got so much more ahead of you girl thank you i was i have to say i was insanely relieved because i was just like i don't know a picture that i can imagine being put next to that picture that i would be like oh great my midsection is in that newspaper but what's also really funny is josie i'm not gonna be able to remember her last name offhand but she's a little bit further down and she's the one that used she's a british woman that used to be on whose line is it anyway with greg proofs and ryan styles all the time like the original one she's super hold on i want to say josie moran but that's not right and she is truly one i took a photo of it she's one of the funniest people on the planet hold on hold on and i wonder if the girl that tweeted it to us because that's how i saw it if she thought that that was me oh i mean i doubt it josie lawrence josie lawrence yeah is one of the best improvisers there is and one of the funniest women on the planet so i was like well maybe she's mistaking us look how sassy i look in this yeah i know i know who is that girl good luck with your podcast all right it's my turn i want to look like her diversity look at yourself i'm like oh yeah i want to look like her no it's such a good picture i'm happy about that um okay i found a new okay i wonder if you've never heard of it like a new police crime drama hit me on netflix okay i'm gonna get i feel like i wanted to text you over the weekend because i've been sick and vince was gone so i just binge watch this and i was like i'm gonna tell karen it's norwegian the break no uh it's norwegian the dark no which is great because uh you you read it it's subtitled so you can eat crackers really loudly and you don't have to turn it louder yeah which i realized over the weekend how great that was it's called borderliner yes i just started it oh my god how hot is the cup it's crazy and he's secret gay secret gay which is always making out with the other hottest guy who's a lawyer i for some reason i didn't see that coming when you're watching a foreign show i always from watching so many of them i'm like i know what this usually contains you're going to set up like the haggard mother that's still getting it all done and a cop or and then the female cop's going to come along and she's hot and they're going to make out yes you just think you know all the tropes yeah so that and that guy started kissing that other guy like we were only in it for two and a half minutes totally it was shockingly hot it was surprisingly exciting he is the guy who plays hot gay cop whose name i don't have and probably couldn't pronounce if i wanted to right it's vince dotster's daughter right is so beautiful yeah so such a handsome cop guy but anyways i'm like almost done with it and it's really good keeps happening shit keeps happening where i'm like i would have just told already like they keep getting themselves deeper and deeper oh like yeah i know sometimes like the line of you can't suspend disbelief yeah that long but i get it when it's like well if i now tell i'm in even more trouble than if i should have told in the beginning now i'm fucked it needs to keep happening yeah but i don't know it's good and there's a strong female lead who's like on to everyone's lies and it's just like going for the truth she's a fucking detective as well love it going for it there's something about those foreign procedurals maybe it is the the subtitles that i really love yeah it's so much i like it they make it very clear yeah i've spent all day by myself typing on some in some version most of it with you but just lots and lots of typing and writing in silence yeah so i'm really just getting these words up on their feet right now just trying some stuff out and i just keep saying things and then going like don't what no i spent the weekend alone and didn't i left the house for 15 minutes maybe because vince was gone you know and i like didn't change my clothes i didn't shower i was just like here's and then it was a good reminder of like here's what you're like alone not not everyone i but i am a particularly bad single person yes so it was nice a nice reminder and then not talking but then i realized i was talking because i was just having whole conversations with my cats yes you know that's that's where we go to narrating their lives i mean i start fake arguments just to entertain myself where i'll be like what are you two doing in here and they're just laying there like watching me what only with their eyes moving uh that's so fun yeah it's um there's nothing like being a hermit um should we should we just like do it let's just get into it i uh i feel like i just had one more other thing to tell you though oh i was just gonna say i'm really excited for our la show we have to do an la show in two days i'm super excited but i'm starting to get insanely nervous it's so much higher stakes yeah because people we know are going to be there it feels like it feels like we've done all these great shows with all these amazing people all around the country and have these amazing experiences and they were all amazing people and they were all amazing people and they all people we didn't know right and there's no way we can prove it it doesn't matter that all that great stuff happened because now it's just like now you just got to put up or shut up in your hometown it's gonna be like some of my girlfriends are coming and my fucking mom and dad are coming and like my aunt might come and and then all our agents are gonna be there it's gonna be scary it's like feels official and then it also feels like you know i also feel like last time we played la and did the orpheum i didn't do like it was i was new at it yeah so i wasn't on my game it was a while ago yeah and so i feel like i this is now my time to prove to all these la people that i don't suck anymore which is no pressure as if you haven't been performing and posting live shows where you it's in no way suck but la doesn't know that no i know la doesn't know anything and that's the problem is that like it's very when we when this pod podcast started to actually get popular in a way that if that actually mattered to me where i was just like no like in the beginning i just didn't buy it and you would show me things i'd just be like this is a bunch of bullshit and i did look and you'd like stop getting excited it's gonna it's gonna end don't be i just needed to curb your i want i didn't want to see the heartbreak i just wanted to get it over with like this thing is gonna fucking snap back on both of us so hard you're gonna regret the day that you were happy you will rue the day you asked me over to so to have it when something matters in la i just it's like i've lived here for 25 years and nothing fucking matters like nothing punches through right so then to actually punch through you think that's what you want to do then it starts happening and you're like oh my god well i think that's like that for anyone with success with low self-esteem or with like low self-worth is when you get success you doubt it so much that you're like any kind of success you're like bullshit who's fuck why are you fucking with me you know i don't know i don't know i don't know you know instead of being like this is great and i'm enjoying it right because you plan for what you plan for how it's going to happen and like my therapist told me i worship at the altar of doubt and so anything good that happens i'm like no and here's why and it's good that i feel this way yeah because now i'm taking care of myself right it's just that it takes time to catch up so then i feel like i'm just catching up in these last couple days where i was like shoot i meant to lose 40 pounds oh shoot i meant to do this and that like oh shoot we were gonna decorate the stage or whatever like it felt like it was we were supposed to do some big like we're auditioning for our own show it's wednesday and i just was like maybe we should get our makeup done and i emailed him like a friend and i'm like she's gonna have a job that day she's not gonna do it here's the thing i know it's gonna be fun and i know that when i am nervous for something which doesn't happen that often because i'm an old been around the block you're being very mean to yourself this episode and i'm gonna have some stuff out ask you to stop being mean to my friend okay all right but i'm just saying it's fun to be excited yeah at this late date it's it it's gonna be it's gonna be great it's all people supporting us except my mom and it's just gonna be amazing i'm just gonna focus on janet's face the whole time if i don't do well she'll be so disappointed with me uh jesus okay we're back uh i did have a corrections corner about using the term transvestite when i meant transgender um and again apologies for that you know i feel like there were so many things we were learning in the first couple years of this podcast yeah that i'm so glad we did i feel like too nowadays with the full cultural dominance of drag everybody knows their terminology and everybody's going to be like oh my god i'm going to be like oh my god i'm going to be like oh my god i'm going to be like oh my god i'm going to be like oh my god i'm going to be like oh my god gotten a really good education the people that care yeah have gotten their education about stuff like this but i think we've proven on this show that our hearts are in the right place and that we're totally willing to learn totally and correct ourselves for sure and uh yeah it's been we've been lucky that we've been given that grace also on the missing and murdered indigenous women girls and two spirit people issue there was a major update after this episode canada's national inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women and girls released its final report on june 3rd 2019 and connie walker also continued doing major investigative podcast work after missing and murdered her podcast stolen surviving st michaels won both a pulitzer prize and a peabody award in 2023 and it was the first podcast series to win both in the same year which is so incredible that's amazing connie walker's work on this topic on like the native topics about the injustices of like first nation tribes in this country in canada just in general but i think in canada and specifically for connie walker is amazing i've been trying to work on a story about residential schools for so long and marin and i have been working and molly you know all talking about it and working on it but it is such a vast like the amount and extremity of abuse in those schools is so horrifying it's like trying to put a concise story together you know from my point of view it's taken forever because we're just like how do we do this in a way that's actually going to be helpful to these conversations so totally you know until we figured out definitely go support connie walker listen to stolen surviving st michaels listen to missing and murdered like a native woman doing the work on behalf of her own people is it's really powerful do you remember that la show i do it was a good one that was the one where the house lights were basically up the entire time i could see every single person in the theater that really makes it harder and you can make eye contact with people in like the back it was a really beautiful theater it was very gold yeah and it kind of felt like very fancy yeah it was really fun it was cool being downtown too because like it's so historic you know there's just yeah when we go in those old historic theaters it makes it it just fits our creepy ass haunted vibe so much and then to do that in los angeles of all places is such an honor yeah so exciting okay well let's get into georgia's story about the murder of rachel hoffman i think it's you right didn't i do it last time oh okay i go first this time yeah great this is um this is a case that i brought up a while back and couldn't remember the name of it and everyone told me of course that was listening and i couldn't i couldn't remember but i was so obsessed with this when i first heard about it so i'm so surprised i haven't done this one yet um this is the murder of rachel hoffman okay and the creation of rachel's law and i heavily leaned on a 2012 new yorker magazine article called the throwaways by sarah stillman and like she wrote the piece it like won awards it's so good okay great so she listen i just used a lot of her stuff cool and she's and thank you okay so rachel morningstar hoffman was born december 17th 1984 she was this bright friendly open person everyone who met her loved her and by 2008 oh so recently okay yeah by 2008 so she's 23 years old she had just graduated from Florida State University in Tallahassee also where Ted Bundy finished up uh-huh yeah with an undergraduate degree in criminal justice Oh and psychology well so she's also she'd also interned as a mental health at a mental health Institute and she had just been admitted to a master's program in mental health counseling but she was also considering culinary school because she wanted to use cooking to connect with at-risk youth and like and counsel them through cooking Wow she's like a fucking good person that's a great idea too yeah right so picture like young pre oh my god what the fuck Miley Cyrus she kind of looked like that like like little Hannah Montana before she transformed into Hannah I don't know I didn't watch the show but long hair yeah like a long pretty red hair cute face she looked like she's like like a hippie like a tippy jock that you you know would know and she likes going to like fast music festivals but not like Coachella you know we're with the fucking not she wasn't using I'm cultural appropriation and going to like fish concerts and jam bands and shit I like you why are you saying that like that's so much better I mean come on I mean I would both rather stay home but I'm not a 23 year old am I it's not an either/or there's so many other options you're right she's Jewish she had been you know whatever and she had a social media account for her cats her cat whatever 2008 social media account was she made one for her cat she's just yeah oh my space but but but but she should go to these music festivals with all her friends and she'd always wear this crazy purple fluffy hat that was her thing mmm her sick so it was Jamiroquai appropriation exactly exactly so she was an only child and she was close to her parents but what they didn't know was that she was in a court-ordered substance abuse program because in February of 2007 while she was a senior in college police had pulled her over for speeding and found almost an ounce of pot in her car which isn't a lot of pot right I don't think so okay but but don't drive around oh no no no no no no don't do it especially in Florida oh god you know what I mean like California don't do it right Florida don't don't do it yeah so it required that she take regular drug testing but so instead of being charged with anything they just made her go to this court-ordered substance abuse program white right she wasn't in prison I mean she didn't stay there anything like that but she had to go anyway and she was keeping that from her family I don't don't think they knew okay I'm pretty sure they didn't know okay um she did smoke pot though regularly and she also sold it in small quantities to her friends around campus college yeah you know not I'm not fucking saying it's okay at all but if you're wearing a big fuzzy hat you're probably gonna smell sell small amounts and smell it and you definitely smell like small amounts of pot well it just so happens that her neighbors a year later in April 2008 smelled pot it's funny that she segmented into that and uh coming from her apartment and uh we're like called the cops we're like dude you got to check this house out I think it's a drug house what I know um okay uh and so really chill neighbors cool people the best neighbors right um I just remember when we lived in our old place and our neighbors were like up and up in our houses yeah live so close to us I once like yelled at some kid to be quiet because he was screaming his fucking head off and his mom yelled I know what you guys do just because it smokes pot and she smelled it you know I was like oh no good comeback I get it you're right your child should be able to scream as much as he wants because we smoke pot um okay okay so they when they searched they searched her apartment because of this and they found um just under a quarter pound of weed four ecstasy pills and two Valium pills and I asked Vince how baby how much is a quarter pound of marijuana and he like looked it up and told me and he said it would cost at that time around 800 to a thousand dollars so she's probably it's an intent to sell probably as well you don't have that much pot yeah um because of this she could face serious prison time for felony charges including possession of cannabis with intent to sell and maintaining a drug house so she's freaking the out over this she had just gotten fucking admitted to this master's program you know what am I gonna do blah blah blah um the officer in charge at this point Ryan Pender knew that she was just a small time drug person supplying to her friends wasn't a fucking kingpin or whatever right so offers to make her a deal uh all she has to do is identify other marijuana dealers in town do you know this one I I feel like a shade of of it yeah um oh my God here we go yeah has to identify she just has to identify other pot dealers in town and she'll get off they won't even charge her with anything the answer has to be no always no I want a lawyer you can't be a snitch don't be a snitch don't do it you will trust that that's what's going to happen right the the concept of anonymity please from all movies and TV we know that will be broken well here we go okay so uh she was like no I won't do that some of those people are her friends and she refused to snitch on her friends um but then they were like well how about then instead you become a confidential informant CI they call them in a drug sting strength sting operation like a bigger one and she thought that any charges would be reduced or even dropped so she agreed to become a CI right so the next day she first tried to set up uh another student at Florida State who was a small-time campus dealer and she felt so guilty about it that she called the guy and was and told him what she had planned to do she's just like a like look at her photo she's like a sweet baby angel and not that it's okay but she's clearly in her fucking head yes well see that's the thing is that idea that you're gonna here's how I'm going to solve things here I'm going to get a little extra spending money by not getting a job at Staples what I'm gonna do is is sell small amounts of you know reasonable pot yeah and it's like that's fine except for you are now in the drug world exactly and that's how things spin out past your control like you're just pretending that you will have control yeah and you keep doing that and you keep making bigger and bigger bets like we were talking about exactly like in Norwegian procedural dramas yes ask always get a lawyer immediately get that lawyer keep your mouth shut yeah um so the guy who she called him was like I'm sorry he he forgave her but also agreed to help her with police oh stuff so he the police had told uh Rachel at this point that run-of-the-mill pop bus would not fucking suffice um and they needed bigger dealers so this was totally not Rachel's fucking thing she didn't know bigger dealers right um but the Florida the student that she had called was like I know someone there's a dude at a car detailing shop near campus who he's seen dealing drugs and I and he said I bet he can hook you up so she didn't even know this guy oh no so Rachel goes to the car shop and speaks with a guy his name is Danilo Bradshaw he's 23 and he uh gets his brother-in-law Andre uh Green who's 25 to help her as well she lets them know she needs a bunch of cocaine 1500 ecstasy pills oh no and as she described it a quote small and pretty handgun what so and they were like why the fuck do you need you a little thing need a handgun and she said I'm a little Jewish girl I need to protect myself so this I mean she got caught with four ecstasy pills and they're giving her the total amount that they that for all this would cost that they were going to give her was thirteen thousand dollars huh so this is an amount that is that way beyond her level of comprehension as a drug person yeah the thinking behind this of like we're gonna get a mole and it's a person who is not truly in the drug world totally like it's such a sideways approach right so on the afternoon of when the drug bust was supposed to go down when she was gonna bust them so Rachel goes to the police headquarters and officer Pender places a surveillance wire and recording device in her purse which I guess is totally against standard procedures they usually hide it more and it's not in her purse yeah which also is weird that she had it would have to keep her purse on her the whole time yes which probably looks suspicious yeah so they gave her thirteen thousand dollars in marked bills can you imagine carrying thirteen thousand dollars around with you I did a lot that's just it's how I'm comfortable just so I can get what I want you always need cash I mean you always do I always have to borrow like dollar bills for the ballet for me for some reason I've never had dollar bills you know what's really funny I can't remember what happened but I something happened where I didn't have use of my ATM card I'm sure I lost it or I just a thing I often do is just entirely blank on the pin like I'll just be staying there I'll be like no idea what that is use it every day no idea oh I've done that like twice But so I keep, uh, somewhere in my home, why would I ever say this? But I mean, I, I keep cash so that I can always have it because that's kind of my weird fear. So I also squirrel it away. Like just put, I'll put like $3 bills in my car somewhere. Do you remember where you keep all of it? No, no, no. It's just like, I don't think about it. I don't want to look at it. It's just like, I know something is there just in case they need it. Well, they say like for the end days, you know, like you told keep your gas tank full, but also hide money in your house. Hide money and make sure the money is gold doubloons because no cash money won't help you. Well, you know, my fucking dad bought me silver. He's like, that's true. Silver paper money is not going to have any value during the end days. Right. Silver will always have value. He thinks that's, that's what's going to happen. Why doesn't he buy you a whole bunch of bananas? Cause that third Mad Max fresh fruit was just the ultimate trading item. Karen's onto something. Remember, just get, I don't know if bananas have seeds or if you have to grow a tree or whatever. Get a banana tree. There is a mini banana tree in this complex. Is that true? I can't imagine they're edible. Just build a little fence around it and say, please. This is mine. Put a post-it note that says, this is my yogurt. Don't eat these bananas. I have a lemon tree, but that's in, that's just going to give me a bunch of like canker sores. I want it. No, everyone's going to need a, what's it called? You know, citrus. Yeah. But the. Vitamin C. So they don't get scurvy. Yeah. Okay. Then I have to build my fence out around my lemon tree now. And we're going to drink your pool water. Yeah. Frank already drinks the pool water all the time. Fucking Frank. Fucking Jacuzzi Cat drinks the fucking pool water too. And they, they do it. I'm, I can guarantee you that the owner of Jacuzzi Cat, they're, they have like a, one of those water things that has like a waterfall in it and they still won't drink that stuff. Animals. Right? Am I right? Make them a MySpace page. My cats already have an Instagram account. Okay. So they, the police assure her that they're, that they would be watching her the entire time and listening. There were 19 law enforcement agents tracking her and a drug enforcement administration surveillance plan, plan or plane was circling overhead. So they, she thought that they were, she was taken care of. Right. So she's supposed to meet the guys, the drug dealers at a public park. And then all these weird things happen. And like on her way there, or maybe she had met them and they're like, let's go to a different location, which she wasn't supposed to do. Um, they go to that location and then the agents had, you know, she had been breaking up because it was like an outdoor park. There's not a lot of cell service. It was not an indoor park. It was not. Wow. There was not the bio down. It wasn't. Um, this is the saddest thing. Her boyfriend, when she texted him that she's on her way, her boyfriend jokes. Uh, texted, I kind of like you, so be safe. Oh, no. I know. So then she, so she loses contact with the officer while she's on her way to the second location. And by the time he hears from her again, she tells him that they're, she's following them to another location. And this one's at the end of a dead end, uh, road. And before, so this is what Pender officer Pender says before he tell her not to go knowing that a dead end road is a bad place. It's a really bad thing to be caught in. He loses contact with her completely again. Um, but she didn't know that they had lost contact with her. She's not a fucking cop. She's not a trained anything. Exactly. Oh, she didn't know they lost contact. She didn't know that they couldn't even hear her wire. So how would she know? Right. Cause she had been on the cell phone with her that dies and she's like, well, I'm still wired. So, so she didn't know. And there was a helicopter at some point. So they must be monitoring me in some way. Right. Um, so. So at this point, officers begin frantically searching the area, trying to find her, uh, and the DEA plane circles overhead, but there's like, because it's an outdoor park, there's all this dense brush ahead and overhead. So they can't see anything. Um, by the time they find the road and the turnoff, Rachel and her car gone, everyone's gone. And instead they found a spent 25 caliber round and two live ammunition rounds, six cigarette butts. And. There's a single black flip flop, which Rachel had been wearing when she left the station. Oh, no. I remember reading about this when it happened in 2008, so I was like 28 and like just being so sad, but also I was picturing her and w and how that, how, you know, when she knew something was going down and how awful that would have felt, but also, you know, I had dabbled in drugs before and how easily I, you know, she was this Jewish girl who was just fucking around and having this time. And I was like, oh my God, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. Yeah. Just that feeling of having no choice and no way to get out of a situation. You always do. Even if it's fucking going to jail for nine months. You know, it happens. Take the hit like Henry Hill and just fucking do your time. And what am I saying? Never. Karen's going out in a blazing way. No way. No way. I'm going back to jail. No way. Okay. So at this point, Rachel had been working. As a CI for the police department for almost three weeks that that's it. And she, and yeah, so let's fucking veer off and talk about CIs for a minute. Rachel was just one. And this whole article, this amazing article by Sarah Stillman has a lot of information about this. I'm just kind of picking some, some parts obviously. So Rachel was just one of thousands of people every year that help police build cases in exchange for leniency of their own cases. As we know. Um, and it's estimated up to 80% of all drug cases in America involve CIs. Yeah. That's crazy. 80%. 80%. And this is partly because police departments have these crazy budget issues. They don't have the kind of money to get undercover officers and untrained CIs are the only way they can bust these people. And it's a small, it's like a small town. They know the cops. So everyone knows who the cops are. They're not going to send one of them in fucking fake mustache and be like, Oh, I have some drugs, please. Yeah. You can't. You can't. You can't. Like small town America. Exactly. But it also means that they're sending out untrained, sometimes juvenile, juvenile, juvenile. I thought you were going to say sometimes Jewish sometimes even Jewish. Can you believe it? Occasionally as young as 14 or 15, sometimes addicted people to do and place them as undercover officers. Yeah. So another factor that came into play with this whole fucking fiasco is that the, the, was the war on drugs. Yeah. Remember our favorite fucking topic. Yeah. In the mid eighties, Congress enacted federal sentencing guidelines that impose harsh mandatory minimums for even fucking petty drug offenses, which means that some sentences for marijuana sales were longer than those for murder. Yeah. It's horrifying. It's ridiculous. Um, and of course that meant that the U S prison population over the course of that decade doubled and, uh, and drug and for informants surged. Yeah. The problem with the CI system is that it's totally unreliable. It's usually young people from lower income communities, often black and Latino who are under pressure to be informants because they face, you know, so much more if they get caught with these drugs. And if they get put to take them to jail and you know, they have no choice to do this. Uh, in one fucking insane case, LeBron, uh, Gaither, he's a 16 year old student at a public high school. In Lebanon, Kentucky. So in a uncharacteristic of him, he gets in an argument with his school's assistant principal and punches him in the face. Oh, uh, he's taken into custody for juvenile assault. And without a lawyer or parent present, the, an officer from the Kentucky state police tells him he could go to prison, uh, but he, if, unless he agreed to become a local drug informant. So this isn't even a fucking drug charge. Um. So, um, after a sting, LeBron had to testify before a grand jury against the drug dealer he'd set up, Jason Noel. Jason Noel then makes bail and the very next day, the police send LeBron back to him to do another sting on the guy he had just testified against thinking that he didn't know who was the snitch. What? Um, so they sent LeBron wearing a wire to buy more drugs from this dude. It turns out that of course, Jason Noel. The drug dealer knew that LeBron was the one who was snitching on him because everyone finds out everything. Right. Well, and also those drug dealers, it's their business to know, they have to be like three steps ahead. Yeah. And it's like, if it was another officer that was being sent out undercover, his officer buddies would fucking make sure he was safe, but it's just some person that they don't care about and are not, you know, it's not their business to make sure that this person is neither trained nor really safe. Right. So detectives lose track of LeBron. and uh during the sting and jason noel drives off with him lebron is tortured beaten with a bat shot run over by a car and dragged by a chain through the woods and dies and it wasn't until 2014 so this was in i can't i think it's 98 i didn't write it down 2014 18 years after his death yeah what's the math uh no idea the supreme court ruled in favor of his so they fucking ruled in favor of his family in wrongful death it got over fucking turned which is so frustrating then finally the supreme court overturned that overturning and in his wrongful death suit and they're awarded 148 000 which is not enough no none of it is enough obviously but i bet you that's that thing of when they're there's they've built a system around this kind of like these kind of setups yeah so when that system crumbles they have to make sure people can't then retroactively sue them right because there could be so many people that could do that yeah have you i mean people tweet these things on twitter all the time where the like in california in places where drugs you know pots legal or becoming legal or whatever there's these people who are like here's this woman who made three million dollars in her new pot uh business of making edibles aren't these cute and then it's like and here's this black teenager who was sent to jail for 50 years yeah because they dealt pot yeah and it's the like there's somebody who tweets it all the time but it's really mind-blowing of like the that that white cultural filter of when white people make pot for each other it's cool because we have cancer and we have pain and cbd oil and blah blah blah and when black people deal pot you're a criminal and you should be you should go away to jail forever and it's super i mean and then in a couple years and a decade and two like when pot is decriminalized everywhere if we're gonna look back and be horrified yes at how we've been treating people who a are addicted and smoke pot and i mean more than anything that's the problem is you need to treat the people who are addicted to drugs and and need help rather than i wouldn't prioritize pot in that because that's so many people are able to live their lives doing pot there's people who are on oxycontin who drive like city buses and shit like there's an oxycontin problem in this country that's that's ravaging yeah like certain states and i mean that's you know the war on drugs is almost like bit itself in the ass because now we're now we just have pharmaceutical companies that are like oh our drugs are fine yeah you can't do those drugs and we'll pay the doctor's money if they prescribe them even though they're not necessary and they know they're addictive and we're lying to you about how fucking addictive they are it's very dark it's very dark it's fucked i watch intervention oh my god it's so good to watch all those shows um okay there's also a case uh and this so lebron was african-american shelly hilliard she's an african-american teen from detroit and she was caught with half an ounce of marijuana which is not a lot threatened with jail time but it was especially scary for her because she is uh is trans and so she would have been sent to a male prison oh no which is super scary for her yes so so she agrees to become a ci they set her up to set up her drug dealer he finds out and ultimately strangles mutilates burns and dismembers shelly's body because she set him up one witness in the murder case testifies that the police had revealed shelly's identity to her dealer what all for an ounce of weed i mean i know okay back to rachel okay so the morning after her disappearance she disappeared her the cops call her parents and they're like hey have you seen rachel do you know where she is what yeah and they don't even yeah so they're like what the fuck they go to tallahassee they're only told that rachel is missing not that she was a ci um or the circumstances of her disappearance they don't tell her them her parents anything they go back to rachel's apartment to wait and you know for next steps or whatever they turn on the news and that's when they discover that she has disappeared she's disappeared she's disappeared she's disappeared she's disappeared provided assistance during a police police operation but they find out on tv on the tv and that then they find out that they officials suspect foul play is going on so they don't even know that there was foul play um so then on may 9th 2008 after a two-day search after rachel disappears the two suspects are caught near orlando and they lead police to a dry creek bed in rural taylor county which is southeast of tallahassee where rachel's body is found wow um it turns out rachel and then it turns out that the two drug dealers had fucking pegged her as a mark from the beginning and they had never intended to sell her any drugs all the ecstasy was fucking aspirin so they were gonna trick her to begin with so it was even a stupid fucking thing to begin with um and then it's it's totally it's not totally clear because no one knows exactly what happened but it's thought that they found the wire in her purse and uh freaked the fuck out they shot her five times in the head and chest so at a press conference at the fucking scene while her body is still there officer dave mccroney mccraney of the tallahassee police department says at some quote at some point during the investigation she chose not to follow the instructions she met uh green and bradshaw on her own that meeting ultimately resulted in her murder so they're immediately saying it was her own fault because she went to another location which is like can you imagine if she had been in another location and she had to go to another one and she was like no and refused to right and she thinks there's a plane there's 19 officers she's being followed she's never done this before she's never done this before yeah um and friends and family of rachel are fucking pissed that the police were trying to portray her also as a hardcore drug dealer like criminal even though she had never been convicted of any crimes um and in the media and that because she didn't follow directions her murder was her own fault that's what they were trying to make it seem uh rachel's parents are fucking pissed um so herb hoffman and margie weiss they decide to put all their energy into making policy changes to the way cis are used so they wanted answers to questions like why was rachel used in such a high-risk police thing when she had no training why was she sent to buy a semi-automatic pistol when she had never even fired a fucking weapon before um why was she pressured into taking part in the in all of this before she consulted a lawyer uh you know and they're also not read miranda rights and not given their amendment fucking things because they're not under arrest you know oh right so it's basically like look if you want this to go away yeah like it's it's under the table right you're not under arrest so you maybe they don't think to ask for a lawyer um they want policy changes to the program like not using people in drug treatment programs which makes sense because part of being in a drug treatment program is you're not allowed to hang out and associate with people who are dealing and doing drugs right in the first place um and that non-violent low-level drug offenders like rachel should not be used in stings targeting traffickers with histories of violence yeah yeah yeah additionally cis should be given the right to counsel that was their thoughts um and then they found out that california was one of the few states that had any rules governing the use of teenage informants and prohibited recruitment it's younger than 13 which like isn't a great like that's just like cut it off at junior high like that and they're the best example of doing well wow which i was 13 when i was using drugs and they could have fucking had me rat on all those kids i was also when you're 13 like oh yeah that's not good like that idea that you're just gonna like yeah yep we're gonna blackmail this this like we're gonna blackmail this teenager to get another teenager to get the whatever year old who sells a little more pot in this town who has a little more pot in this town which is like you're not getting you're not getting enough the street who's a danger you're fucking just yeah perpetuating this thing of you know then these kids get out of prison and they can't get a job because they have a record and so california 13 that rule had been put into place after 17 year old chad mcdonald was brutally murdered and his 15 year old girlfriend raped and shot in retaliation for chad's work as a low level drug ci in 1998 oh my god yeah so they had made this kid uh chad be a ci but everyone knew he was dealing meth and doing meth at the time and the police actually knew that too but still used him uh and everyone knew he was the snitch and that still happened okay so rachel's parents began working on rachel's law and they got the father of one of rachel's friends was a florida attorney named lance block he agreed to work pro bono to help them and on may 7 2009 one year after on the one year anniversary of rachel's murder rachel's law is signed by the governor of florida but it's stripped of so many provisions it's so basic um but it does establish new guidelines for law enforcement when dealing with confidential informants so it does start the conversation of changing the way it's done and it's the first comprehensive legislate in the nation and they're still working to get uh policy reforms on a national level so they're 2012 uh in a wrongful death lawsuit Rachel's parents won 2.6 million settlement from the city of Tallahassee along with a formal apology wow sounds way different than what LeBron got yeah of well I mean of course yeah uh of the police department's conduct the grand jury who are not like Judge Judy and they don't usually tell people what you know what I mean yeah they said uh letting a quote letting a young immature woman get into a car by herself with 13 000 to go off and meet two convicted felons that they knew were bringing at least one firearm with them was unconscious was an unconscionable decision that cost Miss Hoffman her life and an internal affairs investigation said that police officers had committed at least 21 violations and nine separate policies with this case wow um green and Bradshaw are now serving life sentences for the murder of Rachel Hoffman and they uh her I I think her parents put together an annual uh music and Arts Festival called the purple Hatter's Ball because remember she wore that purple hat yeah and it's uh created to celebrate the memory of Rachel it's her favorite jam bands and it's like face painting and all these lovely things um and uh everyone is purple and the next festival is in Live Oak Florida this June 1st and 2nd of 2018 so murderinos and she was a criminal justice major so you know she was in a true crime probably so that was the murder of Rachel Hoffman amazing so sad so sad and frustrating frustrating yeah okay we're back do you have any updates no updates but I was just thinking about reading this story again or listening to the story again how cool that this podcast was for us to cover these cases that had been in our heads for so long and had nowhere to go because this is one of those cases where I read about it and read about it and I was like what the I want to talk to someone about this and then being able to cover it is just like the whole point I guess but right it feels like you're getting it out there making sure people know about it yeah because it's just so corrupt and up and sad and you know those stories where you're like I could see that happening to me or I could see how that would happen and it's just getting her story out yeah it's important and hoping it never happens again but all right let's get into Karen's story this is a big one the death of Bonnie Lee Bakley there's plenty of things worth procrastinating but investing shouldn't be one of them start investing today and give your money a chance to grow with acorns sign up now and join over 14 million people already investing with acorns new customers get a 20 bonus investment just for signing up takes about two minutes and could be the quickest 20 you'll ever earn head to acorns.com MFM that's a-c-o-r-n-s.com MFM to claim your 20 bonus today acorns.com MFM limited time offer terms and conditions apply see acorns.com terms for details paid non-client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote acorns tier 2 compensation provided potential subject to various factors such as customers accounts age and investment settings does not include acorns fees results do not predict or represent the performance of any acorns portfolio investment results will vary investing involves risk acorns advisors LLC and SEC registered investment 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Bonnie Lee Bakley yes and uh and the you know eventual trial of famous Hollywood actor Robert Blake yes Karen and it centers around one of the most popular and exciting Italian restaurants in the Valley vitello's gone right um no I think they redid it it's still there oh yeah okay it's just totally different now because it used to be like divey well it used to be like you know what it was it was like clearly it was like built in the 60s 70s probably early 70s I would say so the inside was like these big naga hide booths that were like red red plastic fake leather love it there's a huge like wall you know fresco or whatever you want to call it exactly right of uh like I don't know I can't remember if it was like Venice and grapes are every grapes are draped on everything and they're dusty because no one ever cleans them yeah like literal like plastic grapes like look at the Bounty of Milan or I mean wherever yeah and they have like a house a glass of house Chianti for three dollars or whatever and they have those like melty red candles it's just the whole it's exactly like the classic Italian restaurant and the food like the the garlic bread is just a big loaf of sourdough cut in half with garlic on it I love old school places like this so much I want to cry yeah it's you know exactly what you're gonna get and vitello's is good food is it because I don't even care if it's like a if it's the ambiance is on point I'm good well do you like opera singers because they have that shut up yes they'll have all of a sudden an opera singer will bust out singing can I tell you something really quickly do you know the one that's just like this on Vermont called Stephen you know hold on it's on Vermont Dresden no it's on Vermont across from the house of pies we go there all Vince and I oh yes it's um we used to order pizza from there when I lived on Alexandria yeah hold on cut this it's like Domino's it's like it's not it's I mean no not Domino's but like um it's called this is over the pea jelly yeah I know what it's like sorry we can cut this out oh why am I doing this just like that also when you go in and you're waiting for your table you can get a glass of like dollar boxed wine too it's like the best so one time Vince I went through the first time we're like this place is amazing uh and it was a Friday night so they had their a guy with a um he huh what are they called huh huh an accordion accordion walking around singing at tables and I go oh my God that guy was the entertainment at my brother's bar Mitzvah no I was like is your name Israel whatever it was and he was like freaking out too and it was it was him and I took a photo of him and he's like I remember your brother no you don't uh that's amazing no you know what it is it's the not chain hometown restaurant in Petaluma it's it's um vulpes where we go with my family and half of it is the original grocery store from the 20s oh my God that they took the like counter out and put in tables so that you're sitting in the old grocery store I'm dying it's really awesome and that's up the street from that hotel Pelham Hotel I want you to stay I'm gonna come with you to Petaluma one day you would I think when we do our Sacramento show we should stay a night we can stay at Laura's okay totally um but anyway that's that's so that's vitello's it's it's neighborhood-y it's very Italian like it's it's if you like kiss your fingers you know style Italian bullshit that's it's there is that they're saying yes that's actually painted on the sign if you like kiss your fingers style Italian bullshit this is your jam Maru um so this was the play okay so let's just get into this thing because it's so insane so we'll just talk first about Robert Blake right famous actor and up until this point he was kind of one of those he was like a hollywood stalwart i would say he started he was one of the kids on our gang oh really yeah he was for in the little rascals original they called them the film series so they didn't know that yeah and it was basically he grew up he was born in nutley new jersey to a vaudeville family his father was an actor and an alcoholic abusive an asshole um mom unfeeling and the three siblings they had a little uh like a vaudeville show with the little kids um called the three little hillbillies put them to work right so they he's and he described his childhood as feeling like he was uh like a like a monkey with a monkey grinder like he was just out there begging for change around town in nutley new jersey oh shit just horrifying yeah sorry i got all of the things i'm telling you right now from a show that i couldn't love the title of more rich and acquitted so spoiler alert well now we know but i mean yeah but we knew because this was a famous case anyway why didn't that show in any i mean it's so funny because it's when i when i look this up on youtube there's like a whole there's a whole realm of rich and acquitted and it and they're real because i when i first started listening to it i was like god they're being real judgy about like money and they keep talking about his money and then it's basically talking about how when you have money oh the entire justice system works totally differently for you and the whole approach and strategy to the justice system so system i'm not drunk so so the three little hillbillies have uh you know minor success in nutley new jersey in the surrounding area so then but it's it's the um mid 30s so because it's after the depression the movie business is exploding everyone's like i've got i do have 25 extra cents i want to spend it on entertainment i want things to be fun i want to go and like watch the ziegfeld follies or whatever something big in a in a movie theater and have a good time so um his father moves the whole family out to hollywood um because he thinks he's going to be the movie star bad news um they're so poor they sleep in the car you know it's really hard but the father gets a job in a hardware store and uh his mickey was his name at the time mickey gubatosi was his original name robert blake's name is robert blake's real name funny he was born as mickey gubatosi mickey gubatosi uh he's five years old when he gets the job on the our gang series wow and he starts as an extra and they showed clips on the show and he is the cutest you see him he's got this little twinkle in his eye but he's also like he's like a little tough guy and it's so cute and then with all i mean our gang if you go back if you ever have a free day and you just want to have some dumb fun the our gang series was the cutest sweetest thing and all those little kids were really talented now there is extreme fucking racism because it was the 30s yeah but the cool thing was or i won't say cool but the thing that made it slightly different was that buckwheat was one of their friends and hung around right right um but you know there's also as anything from from before 1995 it's you know a different time anyhow so he basically he's the one that makes it big and he from um from uh our gang um when that's over he kind of like it basically emancipates himself runs away from home he joins the army um he ends up marrying a woman named sondra kerr he has two kids with her starts his family it looks like he's about to fade into obscurity as like a character actor that like was a child actor you know yeah because people it was really cool they had interviews with like other little kids that had been on that series that grew up to also be actors so you could recognize them as they were talking and they were talking about how robert blake as a child actor was really good he like he was there to like kill it yeah which is very he's taking it seriously exactly not just because his parents wanted him to right not just because he would get the shit beaten out of him when he went home but but it's just that thing where you know like when those when little kids have it that kind of like why am i looking at that kid there's six kids and that's the one that's he was that so um right as he begins to fade into obscurity he gets that part in in cold blood whoa and if you haven't seen the movie that robert blake stars robert blake stars as you know one of the two killers and in cold blood and he's so good and it's really i only saw a clip of it i've never seen the entire movie starts finish yeah but it's really amazing i think i watched it but didn't realize it was him and you don't watch it again yeah because it's old it's like a thing you'd see on amc yeah um but it's really good also and then it started making me think of how much i loved the version with toby um that british that short british actor that's in he was in tons he's been in tons of stuff he's so good and he plays um truma capote oh you remember that one and they go out to start interviewing the families it shows how truma capote wrote that book yeah it's such a good movie that was uh what's his face philip seymour hoffman did one of a version and then there was a so there was one with philip seymour hoffman um and there was another one with sandra bullock and toby mcguire no british toby british toby steven's gonna find it steven once he's done grooming his mustache steven toby keith oh toby jones toby jones no don't know who that is no no yeah yeah but he's such a good actor he's in everything okay um and that oh infamous is the name of the biopic okay from 2006 but then there's also the the the philip seymour hoffman one which is give it a look see it's good i liked it i i just love that story that you know somebody like truma capote was just such a insane one of a kind beyond belief that was a sidebar to beat all sidebars because uh basically he's in cold blood he comes back and that that kind of brings his relevance back and then he gets the lead on the cop show beretta yeah do you remember that show i was too young you were definitely too young because i was like it was just in my consciousness that was like such a mid-70s show yeah but beretta was the cop that had the parrot and so if you remember he was he was like the italian looking cop with a white parrot on his shoulder and and he kind of had that colombo-y thing where he was like yeah man you know yeah and every man i guess was what that impression just was uh but if you but you can look up old episodes of beretta and if only for the opening theme song how's it go it was uh the the full version is recorded and uh by sammy davis jr holy shit and it's called keep your eye on the sparrow and it's like keep your eye on the sparrow you have to look you have to look it up it's happening it's so like it's so like disco 70s look at the like heart hardcore fucking like weird solo bongos at the beginning they're like here we go the streets keep your yes yeah yes you have it holy shit maybe i do know it it has this show had everything and he ended up winning an emmy for that for that role i think that show went on for four years whatever so he basically then becomes a hit and he he does he invests his money wisely and he builds his wealth um and he also became a fixture on the tonight show and so once beretta was over he was still like a big presence in hollywood and um the in the winter of two the year 2000 uh he he goes to a jazz club one night and he meets a woman named bonnie lee bakely and they hit it off immediately so they and she didn't know he was a celebrity um she actually had to call her sister and say have you ever heard of this name because he's saying he's famous but that was in acquitted rich and acquitted um but they really did hit it off then at the end of the night no judgments they go out to his van and do it no like the alley behind the jazz club that's the first night they met is is they did that so then they're that is where their fate is sealed that's where in the alley in the alley behind a jazz club in the picture that they showed on rich and acquitted it was this this purple van on these big old like jacked up wheels oh my god it it looks it's like half scooby-doo half like monster truck rally you're like where did you get this fucking car oh my god if you invested your money so goddamn wisely all right in 2002 this car is from 2000 not this is not the 70s we're talking about not beretta anymore no but he was truly keeping his eye on the sparrow and keeping it real keeping it real in the alley that's right so now let's switch over to this woman this romance that he's having with bonnie lee bakely so she was born um 1956 in Morristown, New Jersey. She was also poor growing up. They're both from New Jersey. Both from New Jersey. About 20 years apart or so. This is, she has a fascinating history. And this woman, if you want to talk about somebody that got fucking maligned after her own death, Bonnie Lee Bakley, we all heard every single thing this woman ever did. She was not there to defend herself or even just be a presence. Now, she did a bunch of fucked up shit. And that ended up getting proven in court before she met Robert Blake. But as the cops said in Rich and Acquitted, doesn't mean she deserved to get murdered. And it doesn't mean, you know, it doesn't mean she's any less of a victim. Right. I just remember when this case started, how often they talked like on the radio. And, you know, like Howard Stern style talk shit on this woman. And apparently it was the lawyer's plan from the beginning. No. Yes. They were ready once the like indictment came or, you know, the charges were filed. The lawyer had it all ready of like, well, here's the victim. Wow. And here's her past. It's pretty intense. So now going back to where she came from, she was married for the first time. And divorced when she was 15. Oh, honey. Then she dropped out of high school after she had a marriage and a divorce. Sweetie. What I estimate to be sophomore year. Yeah. Then she was like, you know what? I'm past high school now. She's like, when am I going to go back to high school? When are we going to go to the spring formal? I don't think so. I'm a divorcee. I'm above you all. Oh, my God. So she moves to New York City. She wants to be a model. She's really beautiful. She has great features. She's kind of a like bottle blonde. But in that, you know, she's like got this big open face. She wants to be an actress. And she goes right for those nudes. She's like, she just she's like, I'm ready to do it. I want to do it. And let's do this thing. She nothing pans out, which sometimes happens when you take Nance. People are just like, yep, put him in the pile with the other Nance. Sure. She ends up marrying her second husband was her first cousin. No, she has. Yeah, she did it. And she had three kids with him. No, don't do that either. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. They did. You're like, what around year is this? This is the sorry, 70s. This is like the early 70s. Oh, and they're having cousin kids, cousin kids and kind of like, I want to be famous. But but maybe I'll just do this instead. That's all fine. But don't marry your cousin. Right. Yeah. Whatever the fuck you want. Don't marry your cousin. Here's what's kind of cool. So she has all these pictures that she took trying to get break into show business. Essentially, she's a visionary. She starts a mail order, nude photo mailing like service. Yes. She puts personal ads in the back of like smut magazines. That's like, hey, here's me. Do you want me to send you my nude photos? Write to me here and send me this amount of money. So smart. She starts fucking making bank on this business. Good for her. So they're like, I love nudes. I was just reading this whole magazine of nudes. I'd love more nudes. Yeah. From your home. Right. And she's like, I've got this. So she eventually makes so much money off of this business. She can buy several homes in the Memphis area. Oh, my God. Yeah. So she's she's she's supporting that family. She's like getting it done. We're in the wrong business. I mean, you have to be willing to in some of the pictures because there's exercise. So pass. Get on all fours with a cowboy hat on and nothing else. Oh, no, I don't want to do that. There was a lot of that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Like campy shit. It seemed very it was like 70s porn had an innocence about it. Where it's kind of like, look at me with no shirt on. That's how that a lot of those pictures. Yeah. I've seen Debbie Does Dallas. Have you? Yeah. Is it good? No. It's fun. Good storyline, though. The best. Powerful. You know, spoiler alert. Debbie Does Dallas. Debbie Does Dallas. Well, no. The whole nighttime soap opera. Okay. So now this is fascinating and it kind of shows you the mindset, but also like, you know, she's from Tennessee. She's living in Tennessee at this point. Right. In the Memphis area. Memphis, Tennessee. Just double checking with myself. And she's trying. She still has that thing of like celebrity. She's always been obsessed with celebrity ever since she was a little kid. She wanted it. She wanted to be around it. She wanted to be near it. So she gets this idea in her head. I'm going to hook up with Jerry Lee Lewis. What? Yes. Cousins. He loves cousins. She loves cousins. That's right. In 1989. So she's 33 years old. She's been married four times. Holy shit. She's been arrested for drugs. Okay. Which it's the 70s. It's going to happen. Or well, now it's the late 80s. Okay. Still going to happen. But the 70s have existed. So I'm giving her a pass, I guess. The 80s were even worse, man. The 80s were even worse. The 80s were a bit nuts. But so it's 1989 is when she gets this Jerry Lee Lewis plan. Okay. And she actually ends up hanging out and like sidling up. And she's a gorgeous woman. So like she eventually meets him. She gets to hang out with him a little bit. I guess she ends up hooking up with him. She gets pregnant and tells him it's her baby. It's his baby. It's his baby. She's like, look, this is my baby. I hope it's her baby. And there's no way you can prove. No. No. No. You're wrong. And Jerry Lee Lewis is like, sounds great. Shit. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I keep hitting the mic. No, that's okay. Okay. So basically, Jerry Lee Lewis is like, why don't you go ahead and take a paternity test for that baby? Did they have those in 89? Yeah. They were very popular back then. And of course, he was not the father. Oh, man. So that she basically takes her fourth husband. It is like we're moving to California. Like she just gets out. And I should actually have you look this up because this is the best. Oh, my God. Bonnie Lee Bakley. She takes all that money from her home nudes business and buys herself a billboard on Sunset Sunset Strip. Like Angeline style? Angeline style, except for it's just on the right side. It's her headshot, her 80s headshot. She's just like, and then it just says Lee Bonnie. That was her stage name. Lee Bonnie with a phone number underneath it. Can I see this? I need to see this immediately. It's really it's so 80s to me. It's just very like, look, here's an actress on a billboard. It's so Angeline, if you're not from L.A., but you've seen her like if they're if they're going to do the beginning of a Hollywood movie, they will cut to an Angeline billboard. And that's that lady with the insane breast implants. She's got the 80s. She looks like the rocker chick who would hang out at like the whiskey. Yes. In the 80s, who would like hook up with metal dudes. Metal dudes. She's she's got a big kind of baby face, tons of blonde hair. That was a staple of my childhood. When we come to L.A. to my grandma's house, Angeline had a billboard there and I was just like, I want to be like her when I grow up. Right. And I am. That's look at you. Look at you. And you saw yourself in that British tabloid. You've made it. Well, also, she was being bankrolled by some businessman. So it was just kind of like, do you like this person? Put them in your movie or TV show. And that's kind of the way some people were trying to get famous because nobody because they hadn't figured out they can do. Stand up comedy yet. I'm going to see if I can find this for you. OK, there it is. That was on Sunset. Oh, wow. Yeah, it looks it looks like a real estate photo. It's very reasonable. Yeah. And it is very, very beautiful. Yeah. Right. And it's just kind of she's just basically like, if you drive by this and you want to put me in your thing. Sure. Totally feel free. OK. Plus, I have home nudes. Yes. Sounds for days. She you know, she looks like somewhere between Meryl Streep and Bonnie Raitt. Yeah. She has that look. Yeah. So like severe angles, but pretty. Yeah. OK. And a nice tall forehead. Maybe a little Sigourney Weaver going on. There's a little Weaver in there. She starts writing. So this was around the time where Christian Brando ended up going to jail for involuntary manslaughter. Right. Marlo Marlon. Brando's son. Yeah. Right. Yeah. He's going off the fucking rails. Yeah. That's a whole other. I didn't even want to get into it because I'm like, oh, we should save that one because that's a whole insane story. Totally. These Hollywood murderers. But so he's in jail. So she's one of those people. She starts writing him letters in jail, sending him home homespun nudes. Absolutely. He's like, this is great. Thank you so much. And when he gets out of jail, they start having a relationship. Oh, shit. Yeah. So that's basically kind of just this on and off thing. They a lot of people in this special say like they're seeing each other or whatever. Like, uh-huh. We get it. We know what that means. In a van in the alley behind the jazz club. Oh, but then when she's seeing Christian Brando in real life, that's when she meets Robert Blake. That's where that story overlaps. Okay. So Bonnie kept flying back to Arkansas to pick up her mail because apparently. When she lived in, uh, she was, she ended up getting arrested. there because she had so many fake ids and so many fake social security cards for all the different people that she pretended to be when she had that home nudes business she never gave anybody her real name yeah so she's she had a ton of fake id like fraudulent id basically okay she had gone home to pick up her mail um because she was uh had been arrested basically she got pulled over a cop said let me see your id she pulls out one 15 other ones fall out the cops like what the fuck she gets arrested for fraud or whatever um so now she's on probation in arkansas she has to have an address there yeah so she keeps she like stays in la for a little while goes checks her billboard to see if there's any takers and then she goes back she has to go back to arkansas she's been doing that on and off okay but once she hooks up with robert blake so it's april of 1989 now she finds out she's pregnant yeah so she tells both christian brando and robert blake that they're the father and uh she's kind of doing this thing of like i'm not sure which one i want to marry and i'm still trying to pick because robert blake had a ton of money and he was really stable and he was actually interested in her and like into her christian brando was young and good looking and you know kind of like the you know she was just trying to decide like who she was going to start a life with so she picks robert blake but then when she tells him so i'm pregnant and blah blah he's just like you lied to me and he he turns on her robert blake says yeah he's super mean they have so it also turns out um later on when this when this uh trial starts she recorded almost every single phone call she ever had shut up so they like when when this case started um i vaguely remember this yeah they had they have phone calls they had phone calls they had phone calls they had phone calls they had phone calls of theirs they have phone calls of other people she had like she just recorded all phone calls weird so they could go through all of them and that's when they start to find out her very checkered past okay like the actual proof of it um but basically she she thinks she's gonna do this kind of like well i'm pregnant and so let's hook up and i finally made my decision of my two boyfriends in my hollywood life and robert blake is like no fucking way and is so mean and like demanding she get an abortion telling her he's going to make her get an abortion like all this stuff that she actually ends up writing a letter to her lawyer saying if anything happens to me robert blake is responsible for my death oh my god so she ends up going back to um arkansas or memphis i think it was memphis and she has the baby it's this beautiful little girl i mean we've all seen when the case came up you saw a million pictures of her her name's rose and she is so cute she looks like she's wearing like a little black hat of hair and she's got like bright red lips and the second that robert blake saw the picture of her he called bonnie blake bakely and said get a paternity test because that's my baby and they did and it proved that it was his baby so he knew he knew it looks exactly like him okay and especially when you see those like our gang clips or whatever it's she's looks just like him and she's a really cute okay so he's basically says to bonnie move back to la make a life with me like i want to like i love that baby that's my baby let's make this work and so she gets on a plane even though she knows she's breaking her parole or violating her parole uh she gets back on a plane uh to la to make this happen once she's in la robert blake is like give the baby to the nanny for the day let's go out to lunch and when they're out to lunch two cops walk up and go you're in violation of your parole in arkansas you're under arrest stop it and take her away robert blake's like don't worry about it i'll take care of the baby we've got it covered those two cops bring her they don't arrest her they bring her to the airport and put her on a plane no back to arkansas tricked her yeah they tricked her so it turned out those two guys weren't cops no they were two friends of robert blake no and they base and this the entire time it was his plan to get her out of the plane and they took her to the airport and they took her to the airport and they took her to the airport and they took her to the airport and they took her custody of that little girl oh my god so basically he's got the baby uh his grown daughter is like keeping the baby at her house and he just basically sent her back and was like trying to get rid of her so she uh realizes the whole thing was a scam she's furious she threatens to file kidnapping charges against him yeah so they start to work on a deal because she's like i will i will like throw the book at you yeah and the deal is she agrees to drop the charges if he'll marry her shut up uh-huh so they that's the most romantic thing i've ever heard this is remember the story you told about the guy writing the girl's name on the thing this is better sending it to a planet can you imagine if a man so how'd you guys meet what if you like so how'd you and vince meet well well i tricked him i threatened him with kidnapping charges he retaliated of course and then yeah and then i made him sign a piece of paper that said in the end you were meant to be he didn't love me and i'm never alone with him because i'm scared of him what the fuck so crazy so in this prenup there basically it was like she was allowed to see the baby once a month and to see robert blake once a month that's the agreement it was the exchange he will marry you if you sign this but what does she get out of it then if she doesn't even get to be with her baby she didn't care about her baby well she does but she there's nothing she can do about it she doesn't care about it she can do because she was in violation of parole okay and they've already kind of got that so it's the kind of the only the only way she can see the baby still be in a life and still get the thing she ultimately has always wanted which is to be married to a celebrity oh man that feels i'm gonna move out of la right now it's this town is bad feelings wall to wall galore good night i mean anyone who comes here has bad intentions or is going to have a bad time right or better get bad intentions or you're gonna get screwed screw before you get screwed that's for sure yeah um yeah just real good feeling place it's it's the reason that people come here try to do something and then they're like oh no you know what i'm now an evangelical christian yeah because i've i've or a scientologist or i'm going to be so vegan that i try to kill you like it's people just have to they have to reassess their entire life they like need a thing to focus on otherwise they'll focus on the horrible how they're nothing or they'll buy themselves a billboard like it's the kind of town where you feel like you're so nothing for so long that you're like i'm just gonna buy a billboard it's the only way i can break through it's just it's a nightmare so anyway i like it here though i mean no i love it i'm pretty happy okay it's really gorgeous we're having a great time and guys we get to do a show at the orpheum in two days oh my god that's amazing she signs this prenup that basically gives her almost nothing um they marry in november of 2000 i wish i could have been at that fucking ceremony i i bet there was rose petals and love galore everywhere just like scattered you just use the word galore and i think i might never stop using the word galore it's so fun to say it's of that time it feels of this era yes and i mean like you know it's 2000 but like this fucking thing yeah six months later when her probation ends in arkansas she officially moves to la she moves into the guest house on his property not into his house her husband's house she moves into the guest house and they never share the same house they only ever set it up like that so it's not a real yeah i don't get it it's very strange so then this all leads up now we are up to may 4th of 2001 when robert blake asks bobby to sign the billboard if she would like to go out to dinner do they ever go like on dates or anything like that do we know it doesn't sound like yeah uh no it sounds like a real bummer man it sounds like the most toxic relationship and the most codependent bad intentions from every direction also it's that thing of like if you are if you get together with a guy and then the only way you can see staying in his life is tricking him into thinking he's fathered your child i'd go back to square go back to that jazz bar and pick somebody else or start you know what go back even further start it go to therapy yeah start there ask some questions so then when you get to the jazz bar you pick a you know a good kind person yeah you maybe drop some of that whatever happened to you in junior high um drop drop some of that my first marriage was when i was 15 see you See if you can start a new. Yeah. None of this is helping anybody or constructive in any way. So they go to dinner. He says, I want to take you to Vitello's. She's like, hell yes. Yeah. I love fucking dusty grape, fake grapes. I love red sauce. I love melted mozzarella on, you know, pottery. Box Chianti? Favorite. Or what's that wine? The one that's so funny. Chablis? Oh. Vin Rose? That's what my grandma used to order. Oh, my God. I'll have a Vin Rose. She had a weird New York accent. because she was from san francisco um okay so they go to dinner um there i just had a recurrent a recovered memory there used to be a stand-up show at vitello's no stairs yeah this was like late 90s those are the kind of things i would be like sure i'll do that show and i would show up and i'd be like i'm not doing this this is humiliating i'm not going i'm gonna drink in the corner um you can have the opera guy take my sound uh no okay so robert blake tells bonnie that he's brought his nine millimeter pistol with him to dinner because of all the unscrupulous business that she's involved in and for her safety um and she's like sounds great i'll have the breadsticks yeah and um she ordered the breadsticks just breadsticks sounds fucking great you know when you're trying to be ladylike on a date yeah you're on a diet i'll just get seven breadsticks and i just have the breadsticks and a pitcher of iced tea oh god i love vitello's so they leave the restaurant at 9 24 and between 9 24 and 9 40 bonnie lee bakely is shot in um robert blake's car in the parking lot of vitello's he she is so he they get into the car and then he goes sorry i left my gun in the restaurant i'll be right back and goes back into the restaurant um to get his gun that he says he left in the booth great there are no witnesses from the restaurant that say he went back into the restaurant no one saw him go in and get his gun but while he he claims and his alibi is that when he while she was getting shot outside he was inside getting his gun but nobody saw him no one saw him but it's the perfect alibi because it's like well i was inside with my gun and i was inside with my gun just say you went inside to pee like why did he have to introduce the gun part i guess to cover the fact that that's where his gun was like make it real clear that oh he didn't even have his gun on him yeah the gun wasn't anywhere but in the restaurant why didn't he actually do that and and wave at everyone with the gun hi guys so they all said they saw him waving with the gun you know what i mean yeah i don't know listen i'm a master fucking criminal criminal i mean would that have helped be like hey guys you know thanks again thanks this one's for the opera singer two into the ceiling i'm sorry i'm making light of this no no i mean what we're making light of is the plan the whole what we're making light of is life and how fucking stupid it is and also how hollywood makes you think you can do things you shouldn't and can't do but if fucking money and acquittal the tv show rich acquitted has shown us anything it's true it is true it's true it's why people want it so badly is because it gets you to a place i was right rich and acquitted it gets you to a place where you are untouchable and that's what everybody wants that's real power so i want to be touchable oh do you i don't want to be untouchable i think you're silky soft and totally touchable baby soft thank you so at 9 40 okay robert blake rings the doorbell of a neighbor of vitello's why because he went there to call 911 to the neighbors screaming going fucking berserk god um and the neighbor is it's a guy named sean stanek it's his house okay he goes there to his house to call 911 when he leaves and the cops go to like go to the crime scene he he call he waits a little while then he calls police again and he asks them to come and and look through his house because he he thinks robert blake might have hid something there while he was there he says his behavior was so strange and over the top and bizarre and he was screaming and being super crazy about my wife my life whatever that he was like i don't i just want you guys to come and look i feel like he did something and i didn't catch it which i think is amazing and such a cool move where it's like could i just invite you guys back real quick he didn't even try to look for it himself he was just like something's fucking off and i am not putting my fingerprints on it no get the authorities in here absolutely asap well done sean stanek so uh and other neighbors in the neighborhood were like yeah he was just running around screaming and like and like just so clearly presenting like i am freaking out um but a little vaudevillian and over the top sure play it to the back what do you guys right yeah exactly play to the back row yeah so uh so police are like well this is strange because again no witnesses actually saw him go into vitello's the second time and he also bonnie had a cell phone and was always on her cell phone she was like as we know for her recorded messages obsession she was a big phone person always had her phone on her he could have taken her phone and called 9-1-1 right there at the car and he didn't do it okay he also he was taken in for questioning after like they all left the scene so bonnie uh was shot twice in the car she was in the car she was sitting in the car in the passenger seat shot through the window and she was in the window um blood all in the car she was taken the ambulance came and she was taken the hospital but she died uh at the hospital um robert blake was taken in for questioning by the detectives never asked how she was no so they were like yeah the couple of these things aren't adding up in a big way they do the gun residue on his hands test inconclusive they end up which is super brilliant idea and like you know for 2000s pretty advanced there's a dumpster that the car is parked right next to and instead of going through the dumpster there they just take the entire dumpster back to like the forensics lab or whatever and go through every piece of garbage piece by piece that's right to find yeah to find anything and they end up finding this uh it's a nine millimeter it's a very rare world war ii german officer's gun that's a p30 8 9 millimeter pistol no idea but when they find it it's covered in motor oil so they can't get any fingerprints off of it or even or do any ballistics on it it's just completely ruined um they think intentionally yeah i wonder if that was a fucking plot line in an episode of beretta they should have fucking looked that up man that's a fucking genius idea can you can is double jeopardy still a thing um bring him back bring him on back that is such a good idea i i wonder if anybody looked up all the episodes of beretta and just been like this person did this this person this was the plan sure okay the next day um he he lawyers up immediately of course and the next day is when the lawyer starts releasing the phone call tapes of bonnie starts talk trashing her like he had a whole basically kind of like a media thing ready that has nothing to do with it to well it's it's what it is is like they were trying to build the case that that she had enemies all across the nation that she had she had conned men all over the place and there were lots of people that that were her enemy not just robert blake so as bad and contentious and horrible and loveless and nightmarish as this marriage was that she had just entered into she still he wasn't perhaps wasn't the only suspect that should have been looked at right right right okay um uh she and they find out that they start like when they start listening to these phone calls they start finding these old men all around the country that they they thought she was his that they thought she was their wife no they um they thought they were married they but she was married to lots of people she got married a lot and she would take out life insurance policies on them and she also had them change their will to include her in stop it yeah that happened that was a couple of them now this also this was in rich and acquitted but uh this also was all the information that the lawyer is just like anybody to listen to it they'll tell that story um one person theorized that she had been married over 25 times but the provable amount she was married nine times for sure oh my god yeah um okay so uh so at some point like in the in this process robert blake fires that uh initial lawyer and he hires thomas mesereau you've seen him on tons of true crime things he has strange like uh little dutch boy hair uh but gray okay it makes very little sense and he's the guy that defended mike tyson and michael jackson so you've seen him on the news okay sure sure yeah yeah um and and so it he hires thomas mesereau and he's the guy that defended mike tyson and michael jackson and he hires that guy then he hires media consultants um to start the story spin and they get him on barbara walters so from jail in his orange jumpsuit with his hair now turned white he isn't dying his hair black anymore like he had up until that time that that was like a big thing and they say he did it for sympathy or whatever but from jail she's like did you kill your wife and he's like no of course i didn't he's like as if he's irritated with barbara over doing it a there's a yeah he's there's a touch of lily gilding but we can't tell if that's just how he is yeah because he's a child actor he's never had a normal life yeah like you just you just don't know um he ends up he Eventually, he ends up going free on a million dollars bail. A million dollars bail? Rich, rich, acquitted, rich, and bailed. Is that their theme song? Rich, rich, rich, and acquitted. Okay. So then the trial starts on December 20th, 2004 at good old fucking Ventura Courthouse. At our spot, Van Nuys? Van Nuys Courthouse. Fuck yeah. That's how it all ties back in. Love it. Um, now, now that I'm thinking, I know the pretrial was at the Van Nuys Courthouse. I don't know if the actual trial. Let's go with it. So there's two different stuntmen who come testify that Robert Blake solicited them to kill his wife months before the actual murder. One of them, they can prove he talked to on the phone the morning of the murder. But in cross-examination, he gets this. Mesereau ends up. Um, uh, resigning from the case, whatever that's called, get leaving it. Quitting, quitting, I guess. Quitting is the word I was looking for. Um, you're welcome. He leaves. He gets a, Blake gets a third lawyer. And always a bad sign when you have to keep fucking getting a look at Ted Bundy, for example. It's not good. No, you're not an agreeable individual. They hate you. Yeah. They hate your guts. They can't even like they're lawyers and they can't even fucking deal with it. They can't deal. They don't have to. They don't have to be around you that much. And they're just like, what the fuck is wrong? Yeah. Just do what I tell you and everything will be fine. No, no, no, no. I'm a rock and roll actor. I'm smart. Yeah. Um, okay. So the new, uh, lawyer is basically just like, well, I'm just going to eviscerate any of these witnesses who even, cause there's so little evidence that they have to like, so the two stunt men that come and say, oh yeah, he asked us to kill his wife. One of them, they pull up a report that he had recently been hospitalized for cocaine psychosis. Oh no. What's that? It's just like, you do so much cocaine, you fucking lose your mind. How much cocaine? I mean, I'd say a night's worth, maybe two nights worth. All right. Interesting. It's like, you're just, you started and you don't stop. Oh my God. And then you just fucking go berserk. You lose your mind. Okay. So that comes out on one guy. So then he just like, cause all of his credibility is done and they basically do the same thing to the second guy. They're just like, oh, you're both, you're both these drug addicts. You're both these, you know, whoever. You'd say anything for money. You'd say anything. Sure. Um, so basically once they get rid of those two people, there's no real evidence that they, that's, that's usable in court. So the jury deliberates for 12 days on March 16th, 2005, uh, Robert Blake was found not guilty of murder and not guilty of one of the two counts of solicitation of murder. Straight up not guilty. Not even like, not guilty. Yeah. Sorry. Go on. Not guilty. No. No. That's fine. Um, the, the other count of solicitation of the, of the guy, the cocaine psychosis guy, um, that was dropped when it was revealed that the jury was deadlocked 11 to one in favor of acquittal. So they were going to go for it anyway. Yeah. And they were just basically like, forget that one. And he's just going free. Erase that one off the whiteboard. Yeah. They're just like, oh, you're rich. You're acquitted. The Los Angeles, this is from Wikipedia, Los Angeles, Los Angeles district attorney, Stephen Cooley. Called Blake quote, a miserable human being. And the jurors are quote, incredibly stupid to fall for the defense's claims. There's one woman in this special rich and acquitted where she goes, of course, I believe that Mr. Blake would left his gun inside a restaurant. Haven't we all left things inside restaurants at one time or another? And it's just like, lady, it's a fucking gun. Oh my God. It's not your lipstick. Um, it's not your fucking retainer that you put in the cloth napkin cost your parents $300. They were so pissed at Mimi's cafe in Irvine. So basically the public consensus was that he hired someone to kill his wife and it's just unprovable. Right. But a lot of, there were lots of character witnesses that were like, no, he's the best and he would never do that. Um, and of course there was no evidence. So, okay, go on, uh, on the night of his acquittal, several fans celebrated at Patello's. Um, and Karen Kilgareff was one of them. And I was up there singing opera just like this on November 18th, 2005. It's not, what? Yes, it is. That was Verity. Um, everything's straight out your nose in opera. This is the barber of Seville. But if you're singing about opera, it's opera. You don't have to sing opera. That's right. This is a musical about singing opera. There's no actual opera in it. I'm out here and I'm wearing a viking hat. More nasal. Nasal or your, please. A viking hat. Um, guys, on November 18th, 2005, Robert Blake was found liable in a California civil court for her wrongful death. Civil court will always fucking come at you. They'll come back and they'll be like, hey, we see things a little bit differently. We forgot to talk about the fucking OJ Simpson. No, we'll talk about it next time. Go on. Okay. Um, so sorry. Based. No, no, that's fine. So since that time he had to file for bankruptcy, he's in $3 million in debt, unpaid legal fees, as well as state and federal taxes. Um, he said that he might return to acting because he has such financial problems now. Like he was like, we're good, bro. Yeah. We're like, we're like, we got, we're got it covered, Beretta. We're going to hire the parrot instead. Um, in 2010. The state of California filed a tax lien against Blake for a million and $100,000, $1,110,000 in unpaid back taxes. Ouch. It hurts. Uh, now this is a very famous interview. He was on, he went on July 16th, 2012. He went on Pierce Morgan and he's wearing a sleeveless cowboy shirt and a cow black cowboy shirt and then a cowboy hat. No, no, don't do that. And he. Is Gax so crazy. You have to look it up on YouTube. It's an experience to have. And he just starts attacking Pierce Morgan for asking him any questions at all. And Pierce Morgan's like, yeah, but this is what we came here for is like the interview and he snaps and is super fucking crazy. I want to watch it. You have to watch it. Uh, it's, it's a, it's pretty legendary. Um, he told the people that were writing his autobiography that he hoped for one last great film role, but the, but, um, he was in lost highway, the, uh, David Lynch movie in 1997 and that to date is his last acting role. Wow. Um, in a March 2016, this is the, this is one of the saddest endings, not saddest, but like one of the most like, Oh, endings of any of the murders that I've done in 2016, March, 2016, he told a reporter that he had a private nurse and that he was suffering, suffering from incontinence. And that my friend is the, is this sad ending, um, of the murder of Bonnie Lee Bakley and the rich acquitted experience of actor Robert Blake. That's right. Now he's 85. He's still alive. He's still alive. I think he remarried for a third time. Um, married him again. Of course. It's the fucking, this is a town full of people who want their own billboard. So how can he get to be 85? But fucking, uh, Stephen Hawking is what was he like 73? So look, such bullshit. I wish I could explain God's work. I wish I could too. It's a mystery. This is just how he does it. Um, next time we have to talk about the OJ. If I did it, that they finally, Oh, thank you. That was amazing. That was, Oh no, you're welcome. That was so, I don't want to call it fun, but it was a wild ride. You know, who he's always reminded me of is the dude, the dad from the staircase. Hmm. Like just creepy in that way. Yes. Whatever. There's definitely an energy about him that you're, but, but you can't tell actors are so creepy, so creepy that it's like, it's the, yeah, it's like, who are, is this the real you? Or is there another real you and you acting or do you never know how to not be acting? Right. And you just think feelings are weird mass to put on so you can manipulate people, right? Like instead of actually having a real time experience, it's like, here's how feelings look like and sound like, Oh, Italy, I love this place. My gun everybody pizza for one type of shit ringtone immediately, Steven, turn that into a fucking ringtone. Um, but you're talking about. So there was the OJ Simpson, like an, if I did it special, it got, it got filmed in like 2006 and there was like a fucking public outcry and I was like, don't put it out. But so they finally did you have to watch it and we'll talk about it next week. Cause it's fucked up. Um, he did it. Yeah. And he admits to it in this fucking show. Whoa. It's fucked up. Okay. So two women who were one of us, they were murderinos. and they were lovely women. And they were murdered this week. Yeah, this is one of the most awful things. We've been contacted and had a bunch of people tell us about this. But Stephen, just so you guys know, and I think sometimes people aren't aware of this, like Stephen is so good about he's on those message boards with you guys and he knows what everyone's doing. He reads all those emails. So like he lets us know, especially when something this horrible happens. And so we found out that it was on Tuesday. When was Monday? When was Tuesday? We found out this morning. Yeah, that that two different murderinos in Seattle were murdered separately from it. So so Lita Burns and Samantha Field were both murdered. If you go to the My Favorite Murder Facebook page, there's more information. We actually don't know a lot of information ourselves, but we just wanted to acknowledge. And we're so heartbroken over it. And not just because, you know, they're listening to the podcast, obviously, but because it's just really heartbreaking. And we feel like they're friends of ours. And it just feels really it feels like we're this club and we've lost two members and it feels horrible. And in such a such a terrible way, like just we're thinking about you guys because they were your friends. And, you know, this is this is your guys community that you're building. And so you're all connected. And the idea that something like that would happen to you and your community is just heartbreaking. So we're thinking about you and and we're so sorry and we're so sorry to the families. And, you know, hopefully they'll be quick, like for the for the one that that is right now there. They don't know as much information that hopefully that that case will be solved quickly. And the other one is just an incredible tragedy. Yeah. I mean, they both are. But yeah, there's just so much loss. And we're so sorry. Yeah. OK, we're back here. And any updates? Just a couple. Of course, Quentin Tarantino's novelization of the film Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. That movie was dedicated to Robert Blake. Huh. And in the movie, Brad Pitt's character is accused of murdering his wife, which is kind of interesting. Robert Blake did die of heart disease on March 9th, 2023. He was 89 years old. And Rose Lenore Blake. And Rose Lenore Blake is in her late 20s and lives a quiet life now. All right, let's head back in for good things of the week. Let's be real. 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That's Cachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A.com, code MFM. Goodbye. Bye. Okay, so my positive thing this week. I just want to give this shout out to this movie that I can put on in the background, and Vince and I put it on at night when we get home from going out, and we just want to watch something. And it's just, you could start it at any point, and it just makes me so happy. It's called Los Angeles Plays Itself. Oh. Have you seen it? No. It's so good. It's a documentary about Los Angeles in the movies. Oh. And it shows all the old school movies and all the places and things in Los Angeles. And the background, like Rebel Without a Cause, all these places. And it's just this really lovely, lovely thing to put on as a nice distraction, and you can just watch it and enjoy yourself. I would love to see that. It's so good. It's really funny. After all the shit we've been saying, that's like the perfect thing to say. It's like, no one, but it actually is really pretty. The Los Angeles Plays Itself. Yeah, I bet Beretta's on there. I mean, there's, I think he was in New York. Well, never mind. Well, they show that too. It's like, they say this is New York, but here's Los Angeles downtown. I think the Orpheum's in there as well. Oh, that's right. They show downtown LA and what it's pretending to be or when they're, you know, to live and die in LA and what parts of LA it is. And it's narrated by this guy who's got like the most soothing, lovely, monotone voice. Oh. It's such a good fucking, it's such a good, it's just like a good living creature that I really like. Amazing. Yeah. I love it. I love, To Live and Die in LA is a good movie. Yeah. Well, mine's also kind of on the same. It was making me laugh. There were people that were giving us. Suggestions for what this segment should be called. And it was making me laugh. People had some hilarious suggestions, but we should think of an actual name for it. Yeah. Because people were trying to do puns, of course, which God, God, people love puns. But I don't think we have it yet. Unless you can think of one while I say this one. Okay. I just, last night I watched my, we all got to write two episodes on baskets this season. Yeah. And the second one was on last night. Oh my God. And it made me laugh. Now, look, I mean, it, part of the reason it makes me laugh is because Zach and Martha and Louie, they riff so much. Yeah. So we get credit for stuff that we did not write. And it's awesome. I mean, like watching Zach riff and knowing that the things like he just, he just writes the best jokes. So I remember when, I can't remember what the actual joke is supposed to be, but Christine Baskets says. She says to Chip, she's like, Chip, it's not a competition. And he goes, yes, it is mother. Everything is. And it made me laugh so hard. And that was totally Zach's joke. But the, there were things in it that were so fun to, to make up. And I remember when I was making them up thinking, I think this is going to work, like having that feeling and it, but it's so hard to believe in that when you're just making something up and writing it on a page. And, you know, of course I always talk about how much I love Jonathan Kreisel is my boss on that show and the director and the visionary of that show and the one that makes it work. It's his doing, but he was like, no, no, no, this is exactly how it should be. And this ending scene where they're all in this Halloween store, having a fight as a family is just like, I was laughing at my own writing, which usually anything I watch of my own gives me great pain. It gives me lots of like retroactive shame and regret. And I should have done this better and I should have done this. And I just purely enjoyed myself. I love that. It was really fun. And I don't know, those guys are just, we get, it's just the coolest thing to be a part of. So that was exciting. That's awesome. Yeah. I love that. Wait, I know we'll call it bragging corner. How's that? How about the positive place? Positive, positive vibes, positive vibes, something about party vibes, party vibes. Yep. My favorite party vibes. Yeah. Hashtag. I think party vibes. What do you think? This gives me party vibes. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to be sarcastic every time I say it. If it's party vibes. Well, cause it's stupid. Right. Like I mean it as a joke. No, no, I know. No, I mean, I like party vibes. No, we'll keep, let's keep workshopping that. You know what? Let's put a pin in it and let's fucking workshop it. Let's do party vibes is best of right now. There's all these people that are like, I tweeted something better on Twitter. Yeah, you did. You're right. No, you're absolutely right. absolutely right about your own ideas yeah don't ever listen to anybody else's outside influence don't bother party vibes is what it is until we think of the better idea okay and we'll get there that's the one to beat yeah okay we're back so this episode was originally entitled i love it galore galore what i love is that it's such a weird word and i used it twice and then you're just like why are you using galore all the time but i like that it's the word galore galore like it's galore galore it's so good so bad but if we were naming it today or maybe naming it something else maybe we would call it the furthest darkest space of course that's good don't embarrass me oh the altar of doubt i mean i still think about that all the time altar of doubt that's right also the british toby because toby jones is always relevant on this show and in our lives and then of course hire the parrot instead just wisdom from this show truly look the benefit of us just talking without thinking is that you know that's how a lot of good podcasting is made and right you don't realize the shit you say until you get the titles read back to you at the end of the episode you're like i said that what how are we doing this for this long it makes no sense but it's very fun right and in the meantime let's go back to 2018 to say goodbye from there gosh thanks for listening we we love this community and we love being part of it and we're so fucking grateful yeah we really are for you guys listening and for what's happened to our life we don't talk about it because like we said we're fucking terrified that it's gonna all fall apart the minute we acknowledge it uh and we say it at live shows we don't really say it on recorded episodes that's true how insanely incredible i i don't i want to say my life has become because of this podcast it's true in a way that i think i fell in through a wormhole when i was a kid and ended up here because there's just no way that this is real it's so true it's so funny they say that because i was today was my therapy today uh-huh therapy day uh so where which is when i get especially like raw and kind of like what am i saying yeah uh but i did have a moment where i told my therapist it really does feel like everything has come together it's like it's that feeling like at the end of a prayer for owen meanie where all of a sudden he understands why he was doing that trick shot with his friend the whole time because then they're in the war together or whatever it had that feeling of like the stuff that we you and i have been doing lately where i'm like oh i got it i've been trained for this yeah i kind of know what i'm doing here and it finally makes sense like i don't know it's thank what we're saying is thank you thank you guys for listening thanks for being a part of it it's we're having the best time we're glad you guys are having the best time fucking hooray we're so grateful and uh and stay sexy and don't get 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