Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 105: Proclensity

"This is exactly right!" "This is exactly right!" Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. That's right, this is the show where we look back on our old episodes from 2018 with all new insights and case updates and skincare routines. Today we're Rewinding to have a very special episode, 105. Legendary. Which we named Proclencity. I don't know, we're really on one back then. We do not have to rename this one, I mean, we'll try. But this was one of my favorite titles ever. This episode originally came out on January 25th, 2018. Oh, we were babies, let's listen to the intro of the episode 105 Proclencity. Wake up! Hello. Good morning. Good morning and welcome. To your favorite morning talk show. My favorite murder. The morning talk show that screams in your face to wake you up. Get down, get down, get up, get up, get down, get back down, get back up again. And you're like, what, what do they want from me? We want just, we want to just a couple crunches. Easy. Yeah. Simple. Just to wake you up. Fun. Fun and easy. Get the blood going! Yeah. Burpees. Get the fucking stuff burping. What if burpees were not an exercise with just belching? I would be a fucking Olympian. You absolutely would. I would. You'd be internationally known. Mm-hmm. Are burpees the ones where you jump up and go down and to push up and jump up? Mm-hmm. Because I was thinking of herkies, which is a cheerleading jump. Oh, yeah. Where you kind of look like a check, return your body into like a check mark. Check. And I was going to be like, I'm telling you to work. It's such pain. You mean your legs go forward. Check. One leg straight out. And then the other leg comes up in. Your knee comes to your chest. Don't think that. That's just back problems for your life. It's like this, but in the air. Okay. Take it from me. Everyone at home. I'm whipped in the air. She just showed me one in the middle of the living room. Also, what am I talking about? I don't fucking know. Do you know what a herkie is? You're not cheerleading? It's like I'm trying to get people to email us about things. I was a cheerleader, by the way. Oh, yeah. I was a song leader junior year of high school. Oh, my God. Those are the ones that like did routine. Well, we were small schools. So we only had certain amount of people anyway. But you know, we did the answer to Janet Jackson's control. Sure. It's all about control. That's the only one I remember. Just that we had, you know, gloves that were white on the inside and blue on the outside. You're like blowing my mind. So then you do a lot of this. You switch it. Like a clown. White. And then change it up. And then this is my favorite murderer. Put your gloves up by your face. Are they wider? Are they blue? Okay. This is one of my favorite parts about having this podcast is I get random texts from my beautiful friends who listen to it. Take the time to listen to it. Oh wow. And then, but they're, they sometimes can be months behind. So the other day, my beautiful friend, Sam Pancake, that's his real name, who is, who plays Dorothy in the live Golden Girls that I told you about and love so much. I have the mug. Thank you for being a kind. So you got me. It's a lot. Castita Del Campo. They started a new run of it. You really should go. But he sent me a text and all it said was fingers and faces and it made me laugh so. Fingers and faces, the best beauty shop name. The best worst beauty shop name of all time I've ever heard of just cut to the basics. Fingers and faces from the live Orlando show, but I'm sitting there reading my, whatever, one of us is reading a murder and I just see in the audience, whatever fucking production it had happened the night before, maybe it was, who could it have been? Let's say someone like not too big, not too small, but so you've heard of it. Maybe, um, let's see, it could have been, you know, it could have been it like, um, who's the, you might as well be walking on the sun, smash, well, thank you, Steven. Maybe you might as well be walking on the sun for all the good, it'll do you. You might as well. And then one sad fucking confetti piece that had been sitting there since the night before slow. Lee falls into this lovely lady's laugh in the front row. That's right. I was just like, it's like she was blessed or she's dead. I don't know. I mean, it could have been the death confetti. It could have been the death confetti. It could have been so many things. Dottie. What's, is Dottie arranging papers upstairs? Dottie is digging, uh, an inanimate object. Dottie. You go for it. Human sedentary all day. The joy. Okay. The joy of kittens. The joy of kittens. Joy of sex. The joy of kittens. That's the illustrated book you need to be reading. You know, I have the joy of sex. I got an old copy. I can only use books or I was like, well, I'm absolutely buying this. I mean, but did anybody write that? I don't know. Do they write that? I mean, that's what, that's the first thing I'll look for is like somebody folded up a piece of paper and stuck it inside, like try this with Gary. Yes. Maybe Gary will love you now. I was carried. Please do this. All I know is that we got me and my friend Katie Newberger who lived down the street. She's the one whose family had llamas. And they had the old abandoned house on their property with the bills and the walls. Yeah. I believe, I'm almost positive it was at her house that we looked through that book because her mom was also a nurse. And it was so, we were starting to look at it like, ooh, yeah. And the illustrations are so technical and like anatomical that we got bummed out very quickly. Yeah. We're not interesting. Maybe we should just go swimming instead. It's like, and I said this last week, I talked about reductrists and their hilarious t-shirts, but they have one that's like, you know, and you see like a cow and it shows you the cuts of beef. There's one that's of a jaina and it says the cuts of a jaina. No. This is just like the cuts in that style. That's hilarious. I just saw one of theirs on Twitter and it said, girl who promised not to tell anybody only told two people. And then it's, the picture is so funny, it's a girl whose face is right next to a bunch of flowers. Like she's all smiling a little proud. Yeah. That's me. What about bitch? Uh, this bitch brought loose leaf tea to a fucking food donation, but it's just like some thought you can tell this bitch is like some hippie bitch. It doesn't wear makeup because she's gorgeous, not because she, yeah, this bitch loose leaf tea. Uh, what about where did I come from? Do you remember that book? Oh, yes. Dude, with the fucking guy who looks like George Cassanza and his wife actually looks like George Cassanza's parents and it's showing them having a baby and my mind was blown. Well, what about the part? There is a part where they're explaining to their child about sex. And it's like, he, they basically say they rub on each other really fast or something. And I just remember staring, Steven's going to have a nervous breakdown. Steven can't talk about sex. Steven. Steven. Steven. Steven said. I know what that is. Well, I'll tell you, it's one of those fat little cartoons rub against each other. It was very, like, I remember staring at it and just being like, it can't be this. Yeah. Sex isn't just friction. Right? It can't be this. Just this little man, oh, yeah, that's very confusing, that's a confusing time for the 80s. The 80s and that age and like before you know and then what you think you know and then when you find out and how funny it is, but you still can't get rid of the things you thought you knew. So it is still a little that. And the thing I thought I knew is God can see me and it's wrong. God can see you, but he's into it. Well, sorry. Blast for me. Is that what they're teaching in the temple? God damn it. Shit. I'm going to hell. Is there hell? I'm going there. You don't think there's hell. Goodbye. No, I know. Goodbye, hell. There's something. Bye, hell. Goodbye, hell. See you. Duce is hell. Peace out, Motherfucker. What do you have that sweet to talk about? Let's see. Besides friction. Friction of sex. It's like describing sex cartoons from the 70s. Well, this is a great email we got. Hi, ladies. This is from Aaron. Hi, ladies. I was at the second Belbo a theater show back in October. That's San Diego. Right. And was happy to get a chance to listen to that first show that was recently posted. Oh, it's not fun. Of course, I do immediately Google the Betty Broderick Murder House. It's right down the street from me and up for sale. Some great realtor spin to quote a home rich in history. Shut up. As you have to tell, right? She says have to point $5 million lying around $2.5 million live in San Diego House. Yeah. And then she listed it. I could say the address, right? Because it's an empty house. Yeah. I mean, like, or just say what's true. It's on. It's on Cypress Avenue. Oh, where Van Morrison lives. That's a good cut. Yeah, wow. That's kind of hilarious. Would you move into a place like murders had happened there, would you care? Like would you take have pause and ask your girlfriends over drinks or like would you be cool with it? I think it just depends on the house. Like if it, I think you'd have, I would have to go in and like feel it out. But if it was some really old house, yeah, I don't know. I would say like in the 80s or 90s even, there was a murder, even with 2000s, sort of them. You know what? I'm being cavalier right now because I want to say I would, but I just thought of the first night in that house and I would just be out of my mind. I feel like I would be fine, but I bet I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I mean, you hurt, yeah. But I don't care. I don't hear that. Do you, I mean, but if you alone in the house, I mean anything, I feel like Vince would be more creeped out than I would and I would pretend that I was saying you know to the house on his behalf, but really because I was freaked out, I couldn't admit it because I'm a murder podcast. All right. You have to use him as a human shield and you can always and he can use me. That's right. He wants when he gets wrestling and can't talk about it. Right. He's really painted himself into a wrestling corner. He asked to love it for the rest of his life. He, there is no fucking doubt in my mind that that person Vince Averall, the love of my life, will love wrestling for the rest of his life. It's going to two shows in the next few days. Is he really? Yeah. It's, it's, there's no worry. You know what's really hilarious? So many people that I follow on Twitter love wrestling that I, I feel like I have a good historical back log knowledge of, I mean, people post stuff, you can start your own wrestling podcast. Yeah. You know what I will. I'm going to call it my favorite wrestling podcast. Oh, I was going to say that this podcast I really like that there's this new podcast. It's like all the ragey kind of like cereal, the new one. Yes. Called Atlanta Monster. Oh. Have you done it yet? No. It's a pain Lindsay who did up in Vanishing recently, which is a really good one that was solved while he was doing the podcast. Oh, right. Yes. The girl at the woman in Georgia. He disappeared. Yeah. So he's doing this new one called Atlanta Monster. And it's about a murder that you and I have never done for some reason. Atlanta child killer. Yeah. Okay. Here's my hands. I have wanted to do that one for so long. It is so fucking involved. It is. And here's the, okay. I love that. I mean, not love. I am fascinated by that one because it's really old. Yeah. That's like one of the earliest, like Bill Curtis, 79 through 81, this dude killed and the number ranges, of course, but the number that they have is 22 child murders. Yes. Children in fucking three years, but they got him almost entirely on fiber evidence. Yeah. And the way they caught him in the second episode, I won't say what it is. So it's episodic, which is so annoying because I want to fucking binge the show. It's those two episodes. But the story is so crazy. And of course, there's some because because the killer Wayne Williams is black, all the kids who were killed were black. And they were from this poor neighborhood. And so there's a ton of race bullshit in it, which is really important. And I, and pain Williams is interviewing people who were involved. So it's not like him. This white dude telling the story. It's like he's interviewing people who are there. So it's. Yes. Letting them tell the story. Exactly. He's letting them tell the story. Which is kind of a big part of it. And the racial tensions were building so crazy because they were like, the police thought it was a white guy because that's that was like the standard of there were. I don't think up at that point. There had been very many black serial killers. Right. If any, it also it was always the profile was always young man, white man in his life. And the black community was freaking out that it was Clue Clark's clan that it was racially based on like, you know, that they were taking their kids as so nobody, nobody knew. Right. We now know and they say in the podcast, you know, killers don't really kill outside of their race. So. Right. We know that now. But I'm really excited to keep listening. I mean, it's that thing is so it's there's so many levels to it. The thing that's amazing though is like that the idea that they got him on tiny, tiny fiber. Yeah. None of that is ever moved. Yeah. I mean, maybe it has or maybe he's looking into it and something else come up. No, no, no, no, I think that's happening, but we're only an episode two right now. So I think it'll be three and also the red flag have you ever gotten or already gotten to this thing of like that he had this a music studio for children to come and record and he was like, no, we just found out who the person is like in episode two. I'm on right now. We don't know anything. Those things are happening. I'm going to join you because I was just going to say I trust you now because I went home after our last recording and watched the end of the fucking world on Netflix. It's such a good. You have to watch it. It's everything George said. It was and more. I binge it all at once. I forgot to mention that thing. So I was saying Wes Anderson, Harold and mod, my friend Dahmer almost all the time. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's just so gorgeous. It's really well done. It's just those brits. They know how to do some storytelling and care about humor. Yes. Oh, it's so good. Those are such good actors. Amazing. I never want to watch teens do anything in these teens where they were the exception. They were such a good show. Yeah, watch it. The end of the fucking world. Just see that kid whose dad was like, my son's missing and the cops were like, he's probably run away and then I was like, fuck that shit and hired a fucking helicopter and found his kids crashed in a car in a ravine. No. The hour is later, shit. So like a couple of his kids were trapped in the house. It's just his son by himself. Yeah. Oh, my god. The helicopter searched, searched, found the kid crashed in a fucking ravine still alive through the hours later. He's like, holy shit. This kid's not a fucking run away. I thought you were going to mention the alive still alive. The kid was found alive. Yes. He survived. Yeah. I thought you were going to talk about the three kids that escaped the house in Riverside County. Oh, Jesus. But we're 12, like children between the ages of nine and 27, chained to a wall, like 14 kids. Yes. And they're so emaciated. They couldn't tell how old they were. In Riverside. And also the, my friend Karen Anderson is the one who told me to look at it. And she goes, the dad is so upsetting. It looks like Jeff Danielson, dumb or dumb and dumb. No. And he totally has the weirdest things like page boy haircut. It's very disturbing. Karen's looking very problematic. Yeah. Then and have proven to be. Right. There's poor children like to be able to still imprison a 27 year old means you've had some fucking lifelong conditioning of this poor kid. And we're back. God, I was into her keys and just all of those things. That ended up becoming a part of the, of the live show pretending I could do it. I had never known what I heard what it was, because I wasn't, because I was smoking in the, in the smoking tree. That's right. Instead of being a cheerleader. You were up speaker-free-gring, speaker-taker. Speaker-taker. Speaker-taker. Uh, so funny. To notice, thinking of recently, speaking of the song routines, I have to tell you on this podcast ever that like, when I was like 10, my tap dance routine in front of all the parents that year in the auditorium, the teacher picked the song, "Mann Eater." Was it you by yourself? No, I was like, you know, my classmate was like, these like leotards on that had like, you know, rhinestones and shit. And just these like skinny fucking preteen kids doing, "Mann Eater." Yeah. Tap down. So sexy. So sexy. She's a man-eater. No, she's not. No, no. She's a, she's a fourth grade. Leave her alone. What are you fucking talking about? Do you remember that show where the one piece of confetti came down? Oh, yes. God. It's beautiful moments. That was at the Hard Rock, right? I think so. Okay. I think so. I mean, that's the weird thing too is like, these old episodes where it's just like these polaroids of the memory moment. Yeah. Over a decade. Memory moments. Let's name this episode "Memory Mom." Okay. Perfect. Yeah. For real. Oh, they, we talked about the Atlanta child murders. The Atlanta child murders. Yeah. Because Paylon Z had done Atlanta monster. The podcast about it. Yeah. It was so good. It was so good. I highly recommend it still. It makes me then think of, sorry, to skip around, but because I think we're pre-mind hunter. Oh, pre-mind hunter. We're pre-mind hunter, which was the way they dealt with the Atlanta child murders. Oh my God. Do they deal with that? It's, it's so good. Who plays the guy that they end up? It's not an actor I'd know off-hand, but the women who play the mothers where they're trying to get the fucking cops to listen, it is like, it goes from that kind of thing where, as it often does in this, in this genre where it's like, they're going and interviewing the different serial killers and you, you're like, I know who that is. And then it turns into this thing where the mothers are like, you do not listen. Right. We have tried to tell you, like, it's not this guy and it's going to keep happening. That's just completely chilling. You have to watch that season. All right. Should we get into your story? Yes. Believe it. Okay. This is Karen's story about the death of Christa Worthington. You're first this week? I guess I am. Yeah. Is that correct? Yeah. You're first last week. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So I have been on my couch. I sprained my ankle on Sunday. Hello, everyone. I saw the bruise. It's fucked up. It's, um, I rolled my ankle. I've already sprained both my ankle. I don't find talking about medical problems, interesting at all, but this was kind of great because I was walking my dogs with my friend on, he said, "Hey, did they redo that house? I look over my shoulder, like it's a genotype commercial, walking the dog one direction but looking backward." And I'm like, "That house over there!" And just step like on the edge of the cement where the cement meets the grass, roll my ankle, listen to it snap. My friend, Dawn, who was behind me, said that it turned at a 90-degree angle. And then I went down, he said it looked like I looked like a stunt woman, I went down like hand hip leg in a perfect line. He really liked it, but I knew immediately that it was bad. And so I just got up and went in and kept- You were like, "Couch! Goodbye!" Elevated iced whatever, so tonight is the first time I've gone out and driven. It was fine. If I keep it like, you know, drapped and static. So you had a long time to study. I just got really caught up in telling metal story, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, that's right, I'm trying to talk about this." So I've been laying in front on the couch. Now I'm talking about that as if- Kind of a dream. What? It's kind of a dream. Well, also, I do it anyway. What I realized is, this sprained ankle just made me go, "You have to stop living like your ankle's sprained." You have to stop it. So what's your ankle's not sprained? Start living. Leave the house, go ahead and walk somewhere. Could you know what? I guarantee they'll be sprained ankles in the future, or you're going to be like, "I wish I had lived my life outside of this." Yes. I always would know that I'd be back here at some point enjoying a sprained ankle. The couch is forever. You might as well get up and move around while you can. Go ahead. And I feel like my body, because I'm so indignant and I'm so, like, defiance disorder-based. I feel like my body has to sprained my ankle like every eight months just to be like up off the couch now. Or get you really sick to be like, "Wouldn't you love to not be here right now?" Yes. Fucking couch. Stop living like you're sick and all of your joints don't work. Okay. But since I was- Okay. A Netflix movie called Murder on the Cape. I don't know if you've seen it. Of course, it immediately came up when it went on to Netflix and my suggestions. Netflix knows us. What's amazing about it, because I was- and I think you and I talked about this a little bit, but I got really addicted to those home-art Christmas movies over Christmas, because my sister kept putting them on as a joke, but then we'd watch them for real. Love it that. And it was like Christmas is for. It is, right? Because you get some hot chocolate, we're all sitting on the couch, and then it's just- Make fun of TV. It's bladder. Yeah. It's a guy in a huge sweater, pretending he works at a Christmas tree farm, right? But really? And it's always then, it's like, "Oh, she's really smart and type A, but she had to come to this small town to do something. It's okay." So, I see Murder on the Cape and I'm like, "That doesn't look like an actual movie, and it doesn't look good," and I'm like, "And also, I wonder which Murder on which Cape this is." It checked all your boxes, right? What's the thing? It hurt all your boxes. It hurtied right into all my boxes. But so I looked it up online first before I actually- I didn't want to watch it cold. I didn't waste my time. And the first thing that came up was an article on Decider, the website Decider called, and the headline was Murder on the Cape is a bonkers crime story based on a true story. So, they had already watched it and reviewed it, and this thing is the room, basically. So, I stopped reading that article because I didn't want to, in case I had some of the same thoughts, I want to say that I just read the headline, and then the beginning of the description, I was like, "Okay, I'm not plagiarizing this." Yes, exactly. It's amazing. The word bonkers is amazing. Bonkers is my favorite one. Why isn't it used more? It's so funny. Eric D'Aurean on Twitter changed his name to Linda Cape bonkers every time I see it. Okay. So, this, and I highly recommend that you do your substance of choice, and that can be the Bible. It can be a glass of water. But do something to get yourself in the mood to accept what the television is giving you. You could pour a glass of water on the Bible. That could be your thing. And then light it on fire. But what you should do is get some white wine or gingerbread and southern comfort. Okay. Yeah. How about some Malibu coconut liqueur and a fanta? Okay. Lime. Okay. Got it. Fanta lime and some. And then a twist of lemon. Um. Whatever it needs, Karen's just talking about her deathbed wish. That's serious. That makes me a grasshopper. I almost that when, when the Hawaiian nuclear strike thing came to us, like, I mean, I'm not as well. Just. It's really bad. Uh, but anyway, point being, we, I mean, we all get it. Right? Yeah. I'm going to be back on that or off that wagon. The second I have a valid governmental reason. The minute it happens, I'm going to come over and be like, hey, what you doing? Hey, there's one of those huge bottles of champagne. Yeah. Well, I'm not going to bring it. I'm going to let you, because I don't want to enable you. Oh, you're just going to discover me. Like, hey, hi, just wanted to check in on you. And then you're going to be like, that's weird. I guess I have champagne too. Yeah. It's going to be a champagne party. Um, okay. So murder on the cape, the made for Netflix movie is quite something. And I highly recommend you watch it. It is very much like the room meets a, uh, it's only for me. I would actually say more. It's not so bad as the room, but there are definitely actors where you say, did you like acting before your friend decided to make this movie? Or is this something that was like, you wanted to do that this weekend along with your friend who decided to make this? There's a lot of people making big choices, taken huge swings, um, really going for it. There's a lot I can, I could see in my mind's eye these actors going, hey, hey, Chuck or whoever the director is, I'm really going to go for it this time though, like this is what acting is. Ready? Yeah. I'm going to kick my leg and do a dance for some reason. And it doesn't actually connect with what my character's doing in the scene. Oh, my God. Um, so that's cool. The lead guy, I feel like I saw somewhere that somebody in this movie is, was in a soap opera at some time. Oh, that makes sense. I didn't recognize anybody. Wow. And the story, the way the murder on the Cape story is told is very much against the victim in my opinion. It's very much making her look like she tricked him in, like, and then I thought, oh, I should actually look this up and see if there's somebody that was in the real case that is connected with writing this movie because it's just, just median quality enough. So pretty much anyone could have written it. Okay. Conspiracy theory on the Cape. I mean, you never know. But she, it's like she tricked him into sleeping with her. And then she tricked him into getting her pregnant. And then she, and then like, and she was a big slurring, yeah, there's, it's, it's a, it's a very problematic presentation. So then I looked up the actual story because I'm like, that story sounds familiar, but it is not look familiar in murder on the Cape. And granted that they open it up by saying this is based on a true story, but I don't think they claim it is exact. Okay. Okay. So here's the real story. Okay. And then you can hear this story, process it and the horror of it. Then like clear your palate and then go back and watch that thing as its own separate thing. Pour your glass of water on the Bible and then go watch it. Click. Yeah. Turn that TV on. Okay. It all takes place in a town called Truro Massachusetts, which I reminded myself just, it's like you're saying Truro, the tea. Yeah. So it's Truro. Truro. Truro. T-R-U-R-O, I believe. Oh, whatever. That's not it. Truro. That's not a word. The word is Truro. I'm already mad at it. Okay. So it's 1997 and this is a tiny, fishing village basically at the very top of Cape Cod and it's busy in the summer, obviously, with vacationers, but then in the winter it's dead. And it's really cold. Okay. Except for all the fishermen and the families that live there. Right. Obviously. And a woman named Crystal Worlington moves there in 1997. She is a very successful, at the time, 40-year-old fashion writer. She's written for L. Harper's Women's Wear Daily, The New York Times. She's also co-authored Books on Fashion. She's a successful writer and she had been writing internationally. She'd been doing stuff in Europe and basically living a very high stress, kind of high fashion lifestyle. Yeah. And so she wanted to get away from that and go up to the Cape. So her family, she came from a very prominent family and her family owned a lot of different houses and places in Truro. And when she moved there, she moved into a pink bungalow that was right next to the harbor master's shack. And a couple of months later, she moved out. of that and into a larger house than her family owned. A really beautiful cottage. - Send me up. - Yeah, it's, I mean, I, looking at these places in it, there's a 48 hours, one of the main ones I watched, just a 48 hours, eight hours all about it. And they just keep showing clips of like a ship just kind of going around, like along the coastline and like, you know, an icebreaker. It's just like awesome looking. - However, two weeks tell your board out of your fucking mind. - I mean, 20 bucks. - You know, you gotta have your Netflix. - Sure. - Maybe like some crossword puzzle. - You know Wi-Fi is spotty out there. - Yeah, that's true. That would make you nuts. - Right. - You'd be getting on that Jitney back into town a couple of bunch of times. - Is there a Jitney from Massachusetts? - I've never heard that word before, so I couldn't tell you. - Jitney is a word I learned from my New York friends. They jump onto it to take, it's like a little bus that drives strictly to like the Hamptons or something. - Oh, yeah. - From Manhattan. Or some like summer, it's the summertime Jitney. - Okay. - We go out to the beach. - Okay. - All right. So on January 6, 2002, 20 to 5 in the afternoon, a guy named Tim Arnold, who is Christa Woodington's neighbor on the other side of the woods, drops by her house to return a flashlight. And inside he finds her dead body. She's been stabbed on the left side of the chest and she's on the kitchen floor. Her two-year-old daughter, Ava, is there next to her, clutching her. - Two years old. - So yeah, she's been with the body for a while. Tim grabs up at Ava and runs out, calls 911. Police come, they find that Christa's been stabbed through the chest. It, the knife, Mr. Hart, it pierced her long and she bled out on the kitchen floor. - Oh my God. - This murder is the first murder that Truro has seen in 30 years. So like nothing happens in this tiny town anyway and like nothing like this. So of course, everyone's freaking out. And you know, they later on, the defense lawyer will claim that the EMTs were sloppy and compromised the crime scene. They did throw a blanket over Christa's body when they got there to cover her up. She'd been raped and luckily the police did find DNA on her body that they ended up sending to the lab. So they knew that there was somebody else's DNA on the body and that could be a good lead. Unfortunately, the lab is insanely backed up. It was 1997 so this was like, you know. So they start talking to the people in Christa's life. They talked to Tim Arnold, the neighbor. They find out he wasn't just a neighbor. He was also her ex-boyfriend. They dated for about a year. He says he has nothing to do with her death. Then in talking to her friends, they find out that Eve's father is a married man who was born and raised in Toronto and his name is Tony Jacket. - What the fuck? Why don't we keep getting his names? - No, it does have two T's. But I mean, that's right on par with Jimmy Buttons in terms of a noun name. - Buttons, Jacket, there's an onion. - I mean, it just is, if this was writing it would be lazy, but it's not, it's just how it happens. So it turns out Tony Jacket, he's lived and drew her all his life. I'm only gonna call him Tony Jacket the whole time. And he has six kids, he's married, but and this is in the 48 hours and by his own account. He saw Christa when she moved into that pink bungalow, right by the harbor master, Shaq, because he was working there as the fishing warden. In the 48 hours, he calls himself the fishing warden. And article I found on abcnews.com, referred to him and I'm not joking, as the shellfish constable. (laughing) Now I don't know if that writer for abcnews.com was bored and just being funny or just reading cartoons. - It was a cartoon or pitching an idea for SpongeBob Squarepants episode where the shellfish constable rolls into town. - I had the same thought if that's a cartoon, man. - It totally is. In the movie, the Netflix film "Murder on the Kate," the character that plays Tony Jacket's character is very ashamed to be the shellfish constable. And he was, I think, a contractor and he couldn't get work. And so this was his way of like, 'cause they were, they're, you know, having financial for the family's house and financial problems. He has six kids. - Jesus, seriously. - So he had to, you know, take the job. Anyway, as he's working as a shellfish constable, he sees Christa, this beautiful, very, you know, very fashionable, very, you know, all the pictures of her. She's just a gorgeous woman. And he's immediately, they immediately hit it off and are attracted to each other. - So she's like this high society. He's like, gruffs smell like a kind of hot local probably. - Yes, he's very, he looks like he should have been like a third string character in the sopranos. He has like, big lips and squinty eyes and like, combed back hair. Very kind of like, Mamba, Italian, now I can't explain it. - Got it. - And I'm not against it. I'll say that. (laughing) - Not just like, get yours. Get your sea constable or whatever you want. - Get your shellfish constable Italian piece. - D. - Okay. So she, when they first get together, Christa tells Tony, she can't have kids. She's been told she can't have kids. They have their affair for a year, they end up breaking up. In the film, Murder on the Cape, they make it look like she won't leave him alone and is like always trying to be in his business and finding him at the grocery store and stuff where I'm like, prove that. It seems like she had plenty of dudes in her life and it wasn't like desperate. - And she knew he was fucking a romaine lettuce. Where else is she gonna go? - And it's a tiny, truly tiny town. - Right. - I ran into my fucking ex at the grocery store and this is fucking Los Angeles. - Like real. - Maybe he's talking to me. - I actually don't run into my ex. - I have never run into anyone I didn't want to run into in this town. I swear and I have to knock on wood now. - No, no, no. - I would have ever say that out loud. - I don't know. - I just want to like open the nightmare door, basically. - Ooh, next week's gonna be fun when we talk about who you're running to. (laughing) - Yeah, yeah. I better start wearing so much mascara. - All of the makeup. - Constant, constant makeup. It'll be so different. Okay. Basically, she comes to him and says, "I'm pregnant and it's your baby." And he's like, "You told me you couldn't have babies." And then she's like, "Well, it's miracle "and that's why I'm keeping it out. "Care what you say and I don't need to be a part of it." - Yeah. - And he said, in the 40 hours, he was like, "I was dumbfounded "and he kind of thought she tricked him." But she goes on and has her life and starts to raise her baby, her daughter, Ava herself. But at some point, she asks Tony not only to pay child support, but she wants him to tell his wife that he has a daughter. So Tony actually ends up Tony jacket, ends up telling his wife of like, how many years, of six kids and years that he had an affair and now he has this daughter. - Jackets, the jackets, that's the jackets, come off. - The jackets had to come off that night. So basically his wife, Susan, of course, is very upset at first and live it at him. But then basically, she ends up meeting Christa and Christa comes over for dinner and brings the baby and they start to make it work. - Susan! - Susan herself tells the story in the 48 hours. - They're the best people. - Women are just like, this is a kid that is not gonna have her life be bad because of fucking jackets over here. - 'Cause of Captain Jackets. - Like fucking married. - Oh man. - So, and she says she actually liked her. - Wow, that's amazing. - I know. But also, Susan provides Tony's alibi. He was home with her the night of Christa's death. - Okay. - So, the police are like, it's all a little weird. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But then they also discover Christa was having issues with her 72-year-old father. They were, you know, as I said, like this prominent family and apparently the 72-year-old father now had a 29-year-old girlfriend. Her name was Elizabeth Porter. She had been a sex worker and she had been a heron addict. And now she had gotten her life together and she was dating the love of her life, 72-year-old. - Dad, you're embarrassing me. - And Christa was like, you are spending too much money on this woman and then they cut, in the 48 hours, they fucking do a hard cut to this woman Elizabeth Porter walking down like a courtroom thing and she goes, "Yeah, I like to take pictures. I mean, don't yet." And she has like this insane cigarette voice And she's just-- She's yelling at all the cameras at once. - Oh my God. - Not handling her shit at all. - So he wasn't like, no, I've met this class, he didn't. And listen, I'm not talking shit on her being a sex worker or a heroin addict, date, a sex worker in heroin addict, but a 29 year old and a 72 year old don't belong together. - I mean, you don't know any of the same references? - No. - You don't use any of the same emojis? - No, or hair products? - Or gifts? - Or anything. - You don't listen to the same podcast? - I mean, overall the world is, don't date someone younger than your children. - Yes. - I'm mad at the dad for being a fucking creep as a way. - But I mean, I know a lot of people that have had that happen where they're like, and now my stepmom's younger than me. - No, that's just an obvious no. - I know. I shouldn't say a lot of people. I know one person. - That's great if you knew a lot of people. - I know, that would be so impressed. - These are the tiny ways I constantly lie. It just comes out as a lot of people and I'm like, "Just the one." - But you're not hurting anyone 'cause I'm like, "Cool, tell me." (laughing) - But, so that was actually, they were like, "Well, this could actually be." Because she was complaining with her father and basically saying, "Stop spending money, cut her off." So then, and, you know, so it does become, and it sounded like it was this thing where this is almost like a vacation town. It's the elite, the people with the money in the town, and then the people who make the town go. - Right, and they all kind of hate each other. - I mean, you, it could, it all could get real, you know. - Yeah, that's versus them. - So the police are just like, "It can be any but. " - So they're thinking dad's girlfriend hired someone to kill her, maybe? - Or they're just looking at that girlfriend that she doesn't have the best background, and she would have reason to get rid of her to be like, "Yeah, I wanna keep my money source open." - I got my dad's poor because-- - I mean, otherwise-- - It does solve a lot of problems. - Yeah. - No one's gonna date, no 29 year old's gonna date unless they're in love with him, and they have my fucking blessing. - And that's nice. - No, it'd be nice. - But I'm happy. - Mar-dei. - Okay. - Mar-dei. - So, they could, the police, there's so much going on now, and there's so many suspects, the police go to the FBI to get help and to get a profile drawn up. The profile that the FBI gives them doesn't help them. It does, they don't have anybody that matches it. It's finally a year after Chris's murder. Lab results come back, and they find out the DNA that they found on her body doesn't match any of these suspects. So, none of these ex-boyfriends, not nobody. And they're like, "What the fuck?" So, they have to start all over again. So, what they decide to do is ask for the DNA of every man who lives in terror. - Holy shit. - And there's a reporter in this 40 hours who was like the reporter from day one, who has told his whole story, yeah. And he was like, "Well, then that was just crazy." And then it's just, you clearly they have nothing and they're just like trying to do whatever. But-- - How many men, how many men are we talking? - I don't know, off hand. - All right. - Normally, I would have lied, but I call myself. - Let's say 1500. - Let's just go ahead with 15,000. 'Cause it's fun, and it's a good number. It's a really small town. Let's say 200. - Okay. - Let's say between two and 109,000. - Great. - Okay. So two and a half years later, the DA Michael O'Keefe announces they've gotten a match back from the DNA. And some idiot killer gave them their DNA. - Well, yes. And it leads to the rest of a suspect, named Christopher McGowan. He is her garbage man. So, police first bring him up for questioning. The police say, do you know Christopher Worthington? He says, no, I just know she's a stop on my garbage route, but I've never met her and I don't know her. And they say, okay, well, we found your DNA on her body. Now, what do you have to say? And he says, well, actually, I went to her house on Thursday, which is the day that he picks up the garbage at her house. And then I went inside and we had consensual sex. And then he says he went back Friday, had sex with her, then beat her. But his friend Jeremy Frazier was there. His friend Jeremy Frazier started beating her up. And then he left and Jeremy Frazier's the one that stayed and killed her. - What? - Well, the police are like, well, that's a great story, except for Jeremy Frazier. You're good friend that you're setting up for this murder. None of his DNA is anywhere in the house. And there's no way to prove that he was ever anywhere there. - Oh my God. - And so then basically, after a six hour interrogation, he signs a waiver that says he doesn't want a lawyer and then he confesses to the murder. So this guy does the same guy. Christopher McGowan, the garbage man. So basically the prosecution, so the trial starts, the prosecution tells everybody that Christopher McGowan went out with his friend Jeremy Frazier and they got drunk and then at 1 a.m., he drives up to her house, rapes her and kills her. But Christopher McGowan's defense attorney, as a guy named Bob George, he claims Christopher McGowan on Thursday, the day he picked up the garbage, then he left and that her murder took place somewhere between Thursday and then when her body was found on Sunday and that his client had nothing to do with it. - God damn it. - He also suggested that Christopher McGowan and Christopher Worthington could have been having a consensual affair for a while and that it was just the elitists of this town that didn't believe that a white woman, who is a fancy fashion writer, could be having a consensual affair with a black man who is the garbage man. He also submitted that McGowan's IQ was in the low 70s. And so that's why he waives the right for the lawyer. He had no chance once he was in the police. But he basically said, but then, you know, so he's basically saying his IQ is really low. So he was tricked into all of this and he's just basically the perfect patsy. Well, then the prosecution comes back and says, he's smart enough to have lied to say he didn't know her. You know, there's like a lot of evasion tactics or whatever. So he clearly is not just because he didn't score well on IQ tests doesn't mean that he isn't tricky in doing whatever he wants. - Totally. - The defense also alleges that the crime scene was totally contaminated by sloppy EMTs because those EMTs came in and put a blanket on Chris's body when they first saw her. And so the DNA, who knows who's DNA was on that blanket, whatever, they kind of just keep introducing reasons to doubt. - Yeah. - So, Crystal had an ex-boyfriend who lived in Manhattan who was in this 48 hours who says, if Crystal was having an affair with the garbage man, 'cause he had visited her two weeks before her murder and he said, that would have been the first thing she said when I walked in the door. 'Cause she would have loved that story. She would have been very proud of it. If she was having some kind of like, it's not made December, but it's like the wrong side of the track's a fair. - I'm listening to that. - She was the kind of person I would love to talk about that. - Totally. - So up until two weeks before her murder, that was not happening. So he basically kind of, it was interesting when he talked about that where it's like, you can totally see that. - Yeah. - Basically, the trial goes on November 16th, 2006, he's found guilty. Christopher McGowan has found guilty of first degree murder with extreme atrocity, aggravated rape and aggravated armed burglary. And after the verdict is read, Christopher McGowan makes a statement to the court where he says, quote, "I never meant for this to ever take place." And then after he says that, he claims to still be innocent. - Wow. - Which is a really weird way to say it. - If you're innocent. He is serving three concurrent life terms in prison without the possibility of parole. So after all of that, the verdict comes down. In January of 2008, several jurors came forward and claimed that there was a racial bias in the jury room during the deliberations. So all 12 jurors got called back to court by that judge and they all were questioned over those claims. And their testimony revealed that there was a racial tension in the jury room. So because of that Christopher McGowan's lawyer, used that information as grounds to file an emotion for a retrial, but that was struck down as have all three appeals that McGowan's defense attorneys have filed on his behalf since he got sentenced. And then in 2012, the defense attorney Bob George was convicted of money laundering and he himself served three years in prison. - What? - Yes. So the very much, I mean, I don't know, there's a lot of things that get introduced in this case in this 48 hours and that this, that defense attorney Bob George, he actually did a really good job of introducing all these possible doubts into this case. But at the end of the day, it's DNA. - Yeah. And his was the only DNA. in her body. And she was raped and murdered. And she was raped and murdered, which would have meant there would have been someone else's DNA there. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and it's funny because that 48 hours is kind of old and they it's interesting how it feels like they keep pointing to this idea that she quote how to a lot of boyfriends. That that seemed to be at play in the way people kind of like judged this. Yeah. That and like she had an affair with a married man where it's like. Yeah, she was not to be trusted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or there was, I don't know, it's, it's uh, I didn't like, I didn't like it. And the movie did that too. The movie was crazy. The movie was all about fucking Tony jackets. The will the character that was representing him. And like how tough his life was and how these all these women were making his life really tough. And there's poor fucking baby. You have to see, you have to see it. It's pretty amazing. And there's also the casting is fucking fascinating. There's the woman who plays Tony jacket's wife a couple of times. I was like, is that bridge at Everett? You know, the comic bridge. Yeah. Because it looked like her. And it was this kind of like everything had a look. It was right on the verge of being campy. Yeah. And then we just come back every time and to boring when they made the movie. Did they know who the killer was? And then they they showed that's what happened. Yes. Although I'm pretty sure I fell asleep before the end of the movie. Because how can you victim blame throughout a movie? And then it turns out it's just some fucking other guy psycho murderer. Yes. You know what I mean? Which has, it wouldn't matter if she was, let's say, promiscuous or not. I'm not saying she was, but it wouldn't fucking matter. It doesn't matter anyway. It's like that thing that happened happened. That's the case that needs to get sold. I mean, it's crazy. Yeah. I think at the end of this thing, they leave it super vague. Like maybe he didn't. Right. No, he did. Yeah. But I recommend everyone because it's this bizarre crossroads of it's almost like every bad reenactment you've ever seen. Yeah. If all the reenactors had lines. Jesus. Whereas like, you know what? Play with the scene and figure out what happened with you guys. I want to see Susan Jackets gets her group back where she leaves her fucking chicken husband. Ghosts an island. Is it Susan? It's Susan Jackets. It is now. Susan Jackets. Oh, that's fucked up. It's crazy. But the little girl, the good news is the little girl went to live with the person that that Krista Worthington chose to be her to be the guardian, which is a good friend of hers. But Tony Jackets and Susan have visited her and now she's like in college. Oh, good. And she's doing great. Honey. Yeah. Fly. You're a bird. I don't know. Spread your wings. That's my words of encouragement. I bet that'll work. Spread your wings and stuff. Wow. Crazy. I mean, it's almost like a good thing that your ankle got twisted. Let me go ahead and say it's almost a good thing that I watched TV 24 hours a day. Finally, something good came out of it. Okay, we're back. Karen, any updates? Yes. So in 2024, Christopher McHowan requested that a sweater that the police had had since 2005 be forensically tested for DNA and have fabric analysis conducted because it was worn by Jeremy Fraser, who Christopher maintains is the one who killed Krista. So the results about that testing have not been made public. And basically, that's all that's happened in that case. Wow, I wonder if we're going to hear anything. I know. Soon. Here's the thing we got to get to the story that the story that went on the books, a legendary one. I can't believe I snapped this one right out from under you. You really did. But maybe it was more fun for me that way because then I just got to be told and just participate lightly. I think you would have like obsessed over every little aspect than you wouldn't have had as much fun. What I though doesn't seem like I ever have. I just sound like it doesn't really. Okay, let's get into Georgia's legendary retelling of the story of typhoid Mary. All right, my murder. Okay, so you know, I'm obsessed with fucking infectious diseases and plagues and flu epidemics. Uh-oh. You know, I love all this shit, right? Sure. That's my passion, illness, uh-huh, like end of days, shit, great level stuff. Okay, and right now the flu, right now in mid-January 2018, the flu is already an epidemic this year, which is fun. I just got a shot. Did you get a shot? Oh, good. I think it's a irritated and I'm going to die. But anyways, well, at least you won't have the fluid die. So, uh, on that note, because it's so fun, I thought I would do, uh, you know, our good friend, uh, typhoid Mary. Nice. Okay, here we go. In the summer of 19 Essex on Long Island's Oyster Bay, if you've been there, I haven't. I think they take one of those little trains. A jitney? A jitney to get there. Right? I don't know. 19 Essex, a jitney. Did they have cars? It was made of straw. Don't know. Maybe a horse, jitney. Um, so Long Island's Oyster Bay is the Tony playground. Mm-hmm. Of New York's rich and famous Teddy Fuckin Roosevelt, none other than had his summer white house there. Oh, it's all fucking rich people. Sure. Um, and everyone freaks the fuck out when in a span of just one week, six of the 11 people in the home of wealthy banker. Also, he's the banker to the Vanderbilts, even Charles Warren's household comes down with typhoid fever while they're on vacation. Typhoid is a bacterial infection. Let me tell you about it. Okay. Due to salmonella typhee. And it's viewed back then as a disease of the crowded slums and tenements, which we love to talk about. Yes. Um, in New York, it's associated with poverty, the lack of basic sanitation. Immigrants assume to live in disease-ridden, crowded housing, our scapegoats of typhoid. So when a rich fucking family gets it, it's bananas. Typhoid is one of the 20 centuries most terrifying killers because an infection could spread through a house before anyone knew what was going on. The first week, uh, the infection seems almost, you know, like just the regular flu. Then there's the fever, some abdominal cramping, but nothing really crazy to show that it's typhoid. And then during the second week, fever goes crazy. The patient becomes delirious, blood clots form under the skin. The entire abdomen becomes distended. Ooh, the third week inflammation of the fucking brain and intestinal hemorrhaging and the death rate of those infected is anywhere between one in ten and three in ten. So it's really easily spread spread by eating or drinking food or water contaminated with the feces of infected persons. So think about that in the 1900, literally 1900s. You know, when they didn't like wash their hands and stuff and like water wasn't, you know, cleaned and shut. And they all had been like, houses and stuff that were all, you know. Yeah. With that, I mean, that was back still when people get up and just pee in a bowl under the bed. Right. Right. Just like slosh it back under. Probably throw it out the window. Sure. Where is that when they threw stuff out the window? Throw the baby out with them. Probably. I bet it, I bet they did. Let's say yes. But I like the idea that people would do it in rich houses because they didn't. So that's the thing. Okay. Okay. They didn't. So it was really weird that this type of was an outbreak in a rich house. So people were, that's why on Oyster Bay, they were like, this is a fucking something's wrong. Not here. Not in my family. Not in my backyard. Right. Not in the Tony playground of the rich and famous hell. No, no. But in 1900, it killed 35,000 Americans. There's no cure. Antibiotics didn't exist. And a vaccine was not yet available. Four five. So scary. So the Charles Warren's landlord was freaking out that the family outbreak would prevent him from leasing his summer house. Again, he thought they would burn it to the fucking ground because of typhoid. So he was like, fuck the shit. He hires freelance sanitary engineer, George Sopper. The freelance sanitary engineer, Dr. George Sopper. Okay. Which is like, you sound fun at parties. You sound like are you ever made up job? He called a janitor. No, no. He's like, he investigates sources of typhoid fever outbreaks to determine the cause. Like, he's the dude who has a doctor house. He's fucking house. He's like, come over to the my house, figure out what happened here. Okay. Like, why is everyone sick? He's the dude who figures it out. Like, what was his name again? George Sopper, Dr. George Sopper. Okay. So he's like, he's like, what's his name? The detective. Columbo. Sherlock Holmes. Can you edit that? You can leave that part in. He's like the Columbo Sherlock Holmes of diseases. Okay. Okay. I was I was gonna say die. diarrhea. What? Stop it. We don't use that word. No, we do use that word. So everything, so so we're test everything. He's like super excited about growth stuff, apparently. He tests the house plumbing, local shellfish company, everything comes up negative for typhoid. But then he looks into the cook who had worked for the Warrens weeks before the outbreak and discovered that a female Irish cook who fit the description of a cook who had had worked in other households where typhoid had broke out, broke out. No, broken out. Pass that she had worked there right before everyone fell ill of typhoid and had also just cooked for the Warrens. So I don't know why you to hire a Irish cook. We can't fucking cook. It's always hot roast and like red potatoes. Yeah, but I think that back then they liked the simplicity of it all. Oh, man, such a bummer. I mean, I was just fucking amazing to me. That's only one is pot roast and red potatoes. Are you serious? With some horseradish. Yes. What about jello with fruit cocktail floating inside of it? Fruit cocktail, yes. Yeah. And then, of course, my grandma's special. What did she put on it? Thousand Island dress yes, hard stop. That's an iceberg lettuce. No, that's Irish cook. You know, I want I want iceberg lettuce with Thousand Island and I want jello with fruit cocktail. I don't want them to meet each other. Well, sorry, my grandma says you have to and that's my job to make it happen. And you have to finish it. You do. I mean, fair enough to me. That's to eat spinach as tiny babies and very few of us have ever broken a bone. Spinach. But you fucking twist your ankle all the goddamn time. I roll it, but it don't break. Grandma. Okay. Grandma. He was okay. So we can't find her because she left after the after every outbreak began. She fucking laders out of there and doesn't give a forwarding address. Sopper learns of an active outbreak in a penthouse on Park Avenue where two of the households servants were hospitalized and the young daughter of the family had died of typhoid. Oh, no. And she discovers. Sopper discovers that the family cook was the same woman who had cooked for the other families. It's 40-year-old Irish immigrant Mary Mallon. Oh, Mary, watch your hands, Mary. There you go. Oh, I'm doing Mary. What does she say? And she says, I just need to start the soup with my hand real quick. I can't do it. No, you're going to do it this whole fucking story. We need it. Okay. Sopper starts stalking Mary Mallon and tells her her. And he tells her she's transmitting disease and death by her job, but he sounds very bad at telling people things and explaining in a calm, self-possessed manner to an Irish immigrant probably because he had some prejudices against Irish people. So do you think he was too nervous to tell her he was screaming at her? I think he was screaming in her face this thing of transmitting disease and death. And she's this Irish immigrant. What are you talking about? So he didn't explain to her how she, as a woman who was perfectly healthy, could be infecting others with typhoid. He attempted to get. And then, and then he goes on to attempt to get samples of Mary's feces, urine and blood. I think just by yelling in her face that he needs samples of her feces, urine and blood. Jesus, Mary, tell some man. Get away from me. Yeah. Not surprisingly. This just pissed Mary off. And one time she chased him away with a large kitchen fork when he tried to come get her feces. Get out of here. I don't know. That's my Irish. Get out of here. Get out of the kitchen now. You always have to start way high and then go down really low. Okay. Since Mary refused to give samples, he decided to compile a five year history of her employment. He found that of the eight families that had hired Mary Malin as a cook. Members of seven of those families claimed how contracted typhoid fever, even though Mary had never shown signs of the ailment. And with this, sopper becomes the first author to describe a healthy carrier of salmonella typhee in the United States. So the person who can carry it, never get ill by it, but pass it on to other people. So she's in basically immune to this thing she has. But she has it, me as giving it to everybody. Yeah. And part of her argument is like, well, I'm fucking fine. It can't be me getting it to anyone. Right. So also, and let me use my whole arm as a star. And I just want to star this fucking stew. I just want to touch the bottom of the pan with my fingernail. I put this under my fingernails and put it into the stew. What's the big deal? What is the problem? My fingernail ladle, right without watching my hands. Okay. Let me tell you about Mary. Mary Malin is born in September of 1869 in Cook's County, Cook'ston County Thai, Thai Rome Cook'ston. Let's call it a small village in the north of Ireland. That was among one of Ireland's poorest areas. She immigrated to the United States in 1883 at the age of 15. Her aunt and uncle who she had been living with died. So she was living in swallowed housing in the lower east side, fending for herself. She found work as a domestic servant and apparently her proclensity in the kitchen let her to be a cook. So she was somehow good in the kitchen. I don't know. I've copied and paced it. I'm sorry that I never used proclensity propensity. Clensity. Clensity. Clensity. That's a word. I don't think it is shit. Hold on. I refuse. I copied and phased it. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. That sounded so good. And I was good. It kind of was like a combination of propensity and declension. But I'm almost positive. When your search for clensity did not match any search with her propensity. Is that right? Well, I'm never copying and pasting from Wikipedia again. That's not right. So it's not there's no. Yeah, there's no, it's propensity or that's like it, the correction, the correct. Oh, yeah. Maybe they just correct word is propensity. Fuck. All right. I'm not even that out because this is who I am. I'm in a fucking show. Sometimes we get words wrong. It's okay. My proclenston in the kitchen. It sounds like proclenston sounds like like for men who are losing their hair like a shampoo. Take mint proclenston every night. Right. Okay. In 1900, she worked in memoronic, New York, heard of it? No. Where within two weeks of her employment, residents developed typhoid fever. In 1901, she moved to Manhattan where members of the family whom she worked for developed fevers in diarrhea. That's a bummer to have the same time. Yeah, that's horrible. You don't know what's happening. And you have diarrhea. Right. She's a laundress died there. Oh, no. His name, they don't mention anywhere, which is like, listen, she's someone too. That's right. And then Mary Mellon goes on to work for a lawyer. She left after seven of the eight people and that household became ill. She fucking ladders. Why did she keep leaving, though? I don't know. She thinks she's so innocent. Well, it's so it's hard to tell because it's like, did she leave because everyone got second so the house stood still and they didn't need anyone or what did she know you need help the most. That's true. Chicken soup doesn't cook itself. Yeah. That's right. You're walking yourself on those stairs. Yeah, she's okay. Chicken soup can't stir itself about an arm. And it can't walk upstairs. Exactly. So, okay. So then in 1906, she goes to Oyster Bay and within two weeks, 10 of the 11 family members are hospitalized with typhoid, changes job again. Same thing happens. Cooks for the Warren. Same thing happens. The Albany Blah. Okay. Doctors theorize that Mary Mellon likely passed typhoid germs by failing to vigorously scrub her hands before handling food. Usually, the elevated temperatures of cooking food would have killed all the germs and bacteria and shit. But then they found out that Mary Mellon's like most popular dish, her specialty. Her specialty was ice cream that she cut up raw peaches into and froze. So nothing had gotten cooked. Oh, can you imagine those wet fucking peaches with her little like cutting knife under and all the nail under her nail stuff? As she's cutting peaches, she's also cutting a little bit of her finger along with. Oh God, she had a real poor clensity for cutting up her own flesh. I can't believe I got that weirder up. Okay. The New York, the New York City Health Department finally, they tried to get her to chill the fuck out and she won't. Finally, they sent position. She won't. She's like, fuck you and everyone. I must cook. She's like an angry woman. She had to fight for her like her life livelihood. She didn't have anybody. Nobody. It reminds. So I just started watching Alias Grace, which she had talked about liking and it reminds me of like she came over on a ship and that fucking in that nature of absolute bullshit. She's like, fuck you, I'm working to like live my own life. I mean, it's those the ship journey alone. So upsetting for most people coming to this country. Traumatizing. Just horrifying. And then they show up and then it's like, I hope you have a job. Yeah. Good luck with that. Yeah. Also, you don't wash your hands enough. Yeah. That's right. You talking about it. You know what that reminds me of real quick. Yeah. When I lived in Scotland, there was a commercial that was on like UK TV and it was, are you a washer or a washer? walker, and it was just a, it was pretend camera, like hidden camera in a bathroom to see if people walked up, check their face and walked away or washed their hands in one way. And since that commercial, I think before that, I was very like, "Nah, who cares one way or the other?" I know if I need to wash my hands or not. Since that commercial, I've, oh, I wash my hands every single time you don't bother me. You just can't trust door knobs. You just can't trust door handles. You just should wash your hands as much as possible. And I do. I mean, you don't go out of your fucking mind. I do. But like, do your best. Don't be a walker. That's all I'm saying. My dad, every, he won't sit down at, we'll go to lunch anywhere. He had just gone out of his car. He hasn't touched anything. He won't, he's kind of has OCD though. But he'll go wash his hands before, like every time you can't even start talking to him. Oh, wow. I wonder if that's like if his parents were really strict about that, like before eating. Yeah, maybe. It's a good idea. But once in a while, oh, look at my hands, especially when I'm so in cheap jeans. Oh, no. There's nothing worse than having dirty hands as an adult at like a meal. The only person like, putting a food thing into your mouth and being like, when's the last time I washed my hands? That's my fucking thing of like, and then you, there's only so many times you can go, well, I'm strengthening my immune system. Right. Well, most of the time you're not. You're just putting someone else's fucking urine hands in your fucking mouth and from the norna. You still have much stronger immune systems if that really was the truth. Right. I have a bit of an OCD about washing hands. Well, you're Marty's daughter. I'm Marty's daughter. Throwing through a hard start doesn't let her hands through it. Doesn't mess. Doesn't not mess. Okay. So New York City, Health Front sends in physicians Sarah Josephine Baker to talk to Mary. So the singer, yeah, right? All those. That would be amazing. At night, she was just like, amazing dance. Yeah. Hands up. And that's not good. Baker said that by the time she was, she said, quote, by that time she was convinced that the law was only persecuting her when she had done nothing wrong. So Mary was like hardcore fuck you. Yeah. We're like that. Yeah. Bakers. So this chick, Sarah Josephine Baker, her own father and brother had died of typhoid when she was young. And so she had felt pressure to support her mother and sister financially. So at 16 years old, she decided on a career in medicine. Wow. And this is like the early 1900s, a lady 200. This shows up. That as mother fucker and her own right and people should fucking study her, et cetera for feminist reasons. She's fucking awesome. So she goes to find Mary Mallon and with her help, the New York City Health Department takes Mary into custody in 1907 and places her into forced confinement inside a bungalow on 16 acre north brother island off the Bronx shore. So if you live in, had lived in Manhattan, or been in Manhattan, you see a fucking island over there, like off the shore that you can like see. It's almost like Alcatraz in San Francisco. Right. So all the only thing only companion she has and tell me if this doesn't sound amazing. She's in confinement. All she has is a fox terrier and like living the life. Can I please? So wait. I think I'm in that. I can find that right now. But in Mary Mallon's fucking confinement, we're all Irish women are doomed to live the life of Mary Mallon. It just repeats itself. Damn it. Okay. So they on this brother island was the Riverside hospital, which is where she's at. It's founded in the 1850s as a smallpox hospital to treat and isolate victims of that disease. So they just fucking put them on this tiny island outside of Manhattan. You can see Manhattan and you're like, oh, I want that and like, no, you're sick too bad. It eventually expands to either quarantainable diseases like leprosy and venereal diseases. So they just like later people on to that island. Did they really? Yeah. So you get, you get some venereal disease. Yeah. So like, go stay here and tell you in the same room with all the other people, venereal diseases. Yeah. It sounds like a party. I mean, those are the people that party. Yeah. A lot of great personalities in that room. I bet. I mean, I'm sure. Okay. With her forced confinement, Mary Mallon, everyone, the media goes fucking nuts because this woman has been spreading this disease and killing people with it. So media goes nuts eventually in 1908 in the Journal of American Medical Association. She is nicknamed typhoid Mary. That's where she gets her name. So the professionals really, they came in just shit on her. Yeah. That's journalism. All right. You're done. Good job, everybody. So it turns out Mary Mallon is immune to the disease herself. She's the first person in the United States identified as an asymptomatic carrier of the pathogen, which is pretty fucking cool. Mm-hmm. Well, custody. Mary Mallon, typhoid Mary, let's call her, admits to poor hygiene. She's like, yeah. What other mother fuckers? No. Say it. No. No. Say it. No. I can't say. Let's purple. That's what she's just saying. Who cares? Jesus, Mary and Joseph, there's other things to worry about. Exactly. There's people starving in my country. She said she did not understand the purpose of hand washing because she did not pose a risk. Girl. You're the cook. You're the cook. You pose a risk. It doesn't matter how healthy you are. They authorities are like, let's get rid of your gallbladder because that's where they believe the typhoid bacteria resided and she was like, fuck now, fuck you. I don't even have the disease. And she was willing to see working as a cook, too, so like, well, let's you go. Just don't work as a cook. And she's like, nope. I know. I won't wash my hands. Go fuck yourself. Fight. Fight. Fight. Fight. Fight. Mary, fight. We're so angry. It doesn't make sense. Irish women. Irish women fight. Fight. Fight. And then a herky. Herky. Just to give 163 samples of various bodily substances to the doctors there, 120 of which tested positive for the bacteria. She was teaming with the disease. To the, to the health. To the gills. To the gills. To the gills. So Mary stays there for three years until tests results from a private laboratory. Yes. I said that. Came up negative for typhoid. And with this information in 1999, Mary sues the health department for her freedom. But everyone's like, we're, she get the money to sue the health department and then, and then it's like a secret thing that maybe William Randolph Hearst was like, well, giving the money if you give me like an interview. So like, he was like, springing people. So genius. Yeah. So smart. But the New York Supreme courts like go fuck yourself. No. But then in 1910, there's a new health commissioner. He lets her go if she promises never to work as a cook again. And she's like, okay, great. She's like, fine. I didn't like that much anyway. Yeah. So in February of 1910, Mary agreed that she was, quote, "prepared to change her occupation and would give assurance by affidavit that she would, upon her release, take such hygienic precautions as would protect those with whom she came in contact from infection." Meaning, wash your fucking hands. Wash my fucking hands. No, I just, I felt like I wanted to defend, but there's, it's an indefensible. Go ahead. Nice. Some people don't think it, some people think what, that her being locked up is indefensible. No, she killed a ton of people because she refused to watch, she wouldn't, it's like she wouldn't give in anything where it's like, okay, well, if you're the cook, you have to admit hand washing is kind of key. I realize it was, that was kind of a new idea back then, but still. Yeah. Well, the thing is, so she thought they were all to get her, all this shit, you're like decades later, they're like, well, if she had typhoid, her whole life, maybe it fucked her brain up a little bit. She was paranoid and crazy. Oh. Yeah. But wait, it gets worse. Okay. Okay. So they let her out. They lose track of her. Goodbye. Hmm. That idea. Cut to five years later. In 1915, a typhoid outbreak happens at Manhattan's Sloan Maternity Hospital, struck twenty-five workers and killed two of those workers. When Soapr, our friend George Soapr's back, he looks into the outbreak and he's like, this looks fucking familiar. Oh no. Traces it back to the cook, who's an Irish woman named Mary Brown this time, she changed her name. She found a good man. Nope. She changed her name so she could become a cook, like she was doing it now, now she's responsible for it. Now she's being a dick. Yeah. Yeah. Now it's criminal, I think. It's Mary Mountain, blah, blah, blah. Turns out she changed her name and during her years of release, she had cooked in hotels, restaurants and institutions. Wow. So she was like, she'd gone and they'd given her a job as a laundress. You make no fucking money. It's really hard work. Doesn't smell good. Doesn't smell good. She was like, fuck this shit and went to cook. Wherever she worked, there were outbreaks of typhoid. However, she changed jobs so frequently so she had eluded the blame. She's captured and again, can find a North Brother Island where she continued to refuse to acknowledge that she had any connection between herself and the typhoid cases. Well, at that point, it's so stacked up against her. Yeah, but she might as well just do that because she's so guilty that the second she breaks it's over. Yeah, exactly. So after the second apprehension, she spends the next 23 years of her life as a prisoner and forced isolation, hundreds, if not thousands, of asymptomatic carriers who had been identified were allowed to walk the streets of New York freely, but typhoid Mary lived alone in exile. at least you became a part of the world. because the public were fucking pissed at her because she wouldn't say I have a kitchen. Like if she had just not gone back to cooking. - Yes. - That second time around. - Exactly. - She, I mean, I didn't, it's sad that she lived in isolation. - Yeah. - But why are you being so stubborn? - Yeah. Calm down. - Karen. (laughing) - Uh-oh. Karen's having pain. And my face just starts to fall apart. (laughing) I don't wanna do it. It just comes out of me. Your typhoid deers just started running out of your face. - The devil inside me, he made me so mad. (laughing) - Um, but, but, but, but, but, but, stay in the kitchen. On November 11, 1938, Mary Mellon dies of pneumonia at age 69, still in captivity. Then autopsy found evidence of life, toy, toy, toy, toy, typhoid bacteria in her gallbladder. So, she, she, she, they were right. - Yeah, they were right. Her body's cremated and her ashes were buried at St. Raymond's Cemetery in the Bronx. So, Mary Mellon, it's thought that she infected 51 people and three of those illnesses resulted in death. And that's based on George Soepers, you know, looking into it. But, she, she used so many aliases that it's thought that she, the true death toll could have been way fucking higher. - Hmm. - Some estimate that she had made, have called 50 fatalities, which I just saw that in a random article. So, I don't know if that's even true. Historians say she contaminated, at least 122 people and killed five, which sounds a little more likely. - So crazy, though. - Yeah. - So, throughout the 20th century, typhoid fever steadily declines due to introduction of vaccinations and improvements in public sanitation and hygiene, aka washer fucking hands. And today, typhoid fever is considered a rare condition among developed countries, rate is approximately five cases per million per year. The washer fucking brother Island and Riverside Hospital real quick, this fucking island of disease off the Manhattan, sounds amazing. - Sounds amazing. - The island has been abandoned since 1963, after it was a detention, it was lasted detention facility for juvenile drug offenders. In 1963, how badly do you wish you could go and just sit on the wall and like stare at the people? - There, you know there's some black light posters in that building that you know there's some people out there who have stories of like, - They were like, - Well, 'cause when you know my mom working in the mental, she worked at a hospital called Langley Porter in San Francisco, it's up on the hill, you know, and people in the '60s used to send their kids, they got caught smoking pot one time. - No. - They sent their kids to the mental hospital. - She's crazy. - So she said there were in the, like, mental late '60s, all these kids, there was like an influx of kids who were like, they're incorrigible in their drug addicts or they had only done, like, smoke one joint. - Or just like, we're saying no to things. - Exactly, and they were housed with people who were legitimately in need of mental health issues. - And I'm sure those kids were like, "Well, I'm never doing anything bad again." - Yes, the shit that they saw, like, yeah. Or they were like, I don't know. She just said it was really sad and bummed her out a lot. - It's clearly complicated. Yeah, so these kids got sent there in 1963. Finally, it closed. It's now uninhabited and designated as a bird sanctuary. But wait, it's illegal for anyone to go on the island without permission from the city. All the buildings, though, still fucking stand. And these photographers sometimes go on there and take photos and you can see a bunch of the photos. We should put them up on Instagram of these gorgeous, like, brick buildings that are falling in a disrepair. And you can see the rooms where Mary Mallon was fucking housed. And you can see the typhoid of a wing. And you can see the fucking crematorium. And it's, like, it's insanely gorgeous. I am asking any murderino who works for the city of Manhattan. So please let me and Karen come see the fucking island. - Come and get a disease of our own for ourselves. - And since it's, like, under, you know, under watch and you, it's really hard to get on there, everything is still there. So, like, people haven't graffiti and people haven't stolen shit from the island. - That's amazing. You need to see the photos. Everything is covered in wildlife. - It's gorgeous. - Oh, I want to see that. - It's amazing. - It sounds like the island they threaten to send, or that they promise to send Dr. Lector to inside of some lamps that ends up to be, that they're like fakesies. - When she recites that thing. - You are allowed to walk on the beach every day. - Whatever. - I want to read that. - It's so good. - It's so good. - You will be allowed one. (laughing) - One day a year, where you can walk freely on the beach with armed guards or ever snipers. - I don't know about her. - And she didn't know it was fake either. - I know. My friend Amy, who you met when we were in Wisconsin. She has Sons Lam's memorized. - I've watched her with her and she'll just say the line real quick before. It's my favorite thing in the world. - Oh, I love it. - You will be allowed to walk. - She'd be able to do that to be right off the dumps. - It's so good. - I know. - Oh, these dumps. Okay, it's illegal, blah, blah, blah. But you could still see the building, the room where Typhoid Mary spent the last 23 years of her life. - What's she doing there? - Oh man, she was bombed. But it's just like, there's varying accounts where it's like some say she was like, actually helping out there and like I've made and some say that she was just like in seclusion and they had banded her and used her as. Like a look at Typhoid Mary when people would come to the island. - Yeah. - It's like that kind of thing. So you don't really know. I hope there was a fox terrier. - They also know. - Yeah. And then I also want to mention there's a podcast. If you're into this shit that I am, there's a podcast that's kind of new. It's hosted by two, these two young ladies who are grad students in disease ecology. It's called this podcast will kill you. (laughing) And it's just about infectious diseases from history. And every episode is that. And these two girls and they're both named Erin are like, it's just an awesome podcast. This podcast will kill you. - Yeah, so. - This podcast will kill you. - Love it. - I like to imagine that Typhoid Mary sat in seclusion in her room on that island and fantasized of all the different things she'd like to put her hand in. So she'd be like corn chowder or whatever. And then she's like mashed potatoes and then both hands of fantasies just like both bare arms go all the way in. - And then like she cleans her fingernails in the chowder. - Yes. - I wondered if she like requested like cooking magazines and like red recipes and was like stick your arm completely in. - She'd be like, this looks good. - But you know what, it needs my arm. - My arm, my finger now clippings. - And she's not funny. People don't, it's disgusting. - It's terrible. - But isn't that amazing? - It's incredible. Also the idea, did you watch the Nick when it was on? - Yeah. And they have, there's an episode involving her. I watched the little scene where they, and yes. - Were they confront her? - Yeah. - Yeah. That was such a good show and they did that around the chowder. - She was great. But they did that where they would take those things out of history and be like, this is what, where you don't have any sense. Like things before modern medicine and modern stuff. It's just the weirdest idea where they'd be like, somebody coming in, they'd be like, well, we tried to stick a tube in the arm and then they died. Like the end, or it's just, it was so crazy precarious about that. - The Nick is such a great show. - I love that. - Yeah, if you're into that kind of thing, you should definitely watch it. - It was great. Also, if you've ever taken cocaine to the point where it was a problem for you, I warned. - Trigger warning. - Huge cocaine trigger warning for the Nick. - OPM too. - I could be a doctor, a new coke all the time. - No. - Maybe you're in OPM dance too. - Trigger warning. - Trigger warning. - You love to lay back with a bunch of people dressed in a traditional Chinese garb. - Yeah. - Then this will be hard for you to get through. - It's gonna make you nuts. - But if you love surgery without gloves or anesthesia, this is the show for you. - What a show, or Clive Owen. - Right. That was great. - Thank you. - That was fun. I love to learn. - I love teaching. (laughing) - No, I love saying words wrong. - I love teaching. (laughing) - I love to learn, I love to lie. - I love to make up new words. - I love to just have fun with that. - Just say shit to it. - And you know, don't have any foreclensity for caring. - I mean, I have a real foreclensity to just say what I want. And I think we all do. There's a freedom in that. (laughing) In these foreclensities we all have. - And this foreclensiest time, there's a freedom. - It's so, the funniest thing about Typhoid Murray is she had a real problem with foreclents, clenseliness. (laughing) - No, I love it. - It was a fucking valiant effort. - I tried, but you could see me. - You could see me making that U-turn for miles away. - Would you have made that attempt two years ago before this podcast? - Absolutely not. - No, not at all. - And so I real bias against puns as you know. - And so I applaud you. - And no, I think it's the fact that we're, that you have on my life. - I'm making you stupider. (laughing) You're breaking down those pun walls. - I am stupidering you. Hard. You know. Real hard. - Okay, we are back. Are there any updates for the great stories of a modern America? - There's no updates, but I mention none other than this podcast will kill you during this story, which became part of the exactly right network November 28th. 2018. See, there's all kinds of Easter eggs if you pay attention. Pay attention. Pay attention. You can check out their website at this podcast. We'll kill you.com and listen wherever you get your podcast and watch full episodes on the exactly right YouTube page at youtube.com/exactlyrightmedia. Okay. So you just heard the moment when I accidentally invented the word proclensity. We liked it so much. We named the episode after it. And now eight years later, so very timely, we are making merch. That's right. The people who's spoken, you can get a proclensity ringer tea mug or tote bag all available for pre sale right now until July 21st at exactlyrightstore.com. Order yours now and become a part of the proclensity generation. I have a hometown about typhoid Mary. If you want me to read it, please do. Okay. We received this email from listener Angela. It's called teaching handwashing featuring typhoid Mary. Yes. Hi, MFM. I teach in after school cooking class for elementary school students. Oh, cute. Every week, we make a new recipe where the students get to work with food, eat what they've made and take home a recipe sheet. It's super fun and also exhausting. Shout out to the full-time teachers. I don't know how you do it. Being that we're working with food in large groups, my number one rule in class is that students have to wash their hands beforehand. I don't think food. Thank you. I try. I won't even like when I go late, my sister and stuff was listening right now, even though she doesn't listen. When I go to her house for dinner, I don't touch. I don't really eat much. Those two little kids. They get their hands in everything. They love to touch and poke and put things back. I eat before I go. Can I really quickly tell you a story of my sister leaving work as a kindergarten teacher going to some sort of school function? It was taco night. She's setting up all the stuff for tacos and she just put out this huge like a pile of grated cheese to go down the buffet and like a little six-year-old walks over and just sticks his hand in the center of the cheese and starts eating it. And my sister whips around and she's like, "That is not how you blah, blah, blah." And then another mom comes over and puts her hand on my sister's back and goes, "Maybe you take your tacos and go home." And Laura's like, "Yep, yeah, I'm gonna go." Do not food shame kids. I mean, it's so true where it's like, that's the thing about little kids is they're dirty monsters. No, they are, and I won't eat. I won't eat around them. Okay. Wash their hands on it. I try explaining that it keeps everyone strong and healthy. It's a good habit. Hand sanitizing was not the same as running water and soap, etc. Despite my honest attempts, I know some of these kids just fake it when they, when I send them off to go wash their hands. I did that too. That's why I won't eat it. I know what fucking disgusting I was. Having a chocolate chip cookie, you're like, "Did you make this with Play-Doh? Because it's real salty." And it's red. And now I have distemper. So last fall, I thought of a more impactful way to teach them about the importance of hand washing by telling them the story of Typhoid Mary. That's right, scare the shit out of them. The man is watching you. So as I'm delivering my hand washing spiel on the first day of class, I asked the students if anyone has ever heard of Typhoid Mary. I then acted like it was a spooky story that was too scary to tell, which just made them want to hear it more, it's perfect. I went on to tell a kid-friendly version of her story as a servant and home chef, her lack of hand washing that led to widespread Typhoid transmission and multiple deaths, being pinned by the police and put into solitary confinement and her continuous refusal to wash her hands. To put them at ease, I assured them that public sanitation and medicine have come a long waste since her time. Nevertheless, they got the message. I noticed a significant drop off of hand washing protesters and more openness towards hand washing in general. Now when I go over hand washing rolls on the first day of every term, I inevitably have at least one repeat student interjecting, "Tell us the story!" Fuck yeah, what a little murder it is. It's so good. And of course, I oblige and it is the most attention the class pays me all term. I always appreciate revisiting George's telling of Mary's story just to make sure I get all those nitty gritty details right. Stay sexy and wash your hands, Angela. Oh, so good. So good. Amazing. Okay, it's time for us to get into the good things of the week portion of the show, a thing we used to do. We used to have good portions of the week. We used to really find those, we find this overlining and we'd shove it right into the show. So take a listen. Oh, what makes you happy? Let's see. Falling down and snapping my ankle loudly in front of my neighbors. Oh, no. What kind of have one? Yeah, go ahead. Okay, the thing that makes me happy this week is this book that I'm listening to. Thank you, Audible. It's sci-fi fantasy and it's one of those books that makes me that someone thought of this narrative and thought of this like, you know, idea makes me happy that humans, that certain humans exist. You know, it's like so fucking joyous that like people can think of these things and write these books and it's gorgeous and I love it. It's called the children, it's called Children of Time by Adrian Chikowski. And it's sci-fi fantasy. The book is really fun to listen to. It's fucking weird as shit. It's like post-human. Space stuff with their spiders. I've never in my life thought I would ever have sympathy to spiders, but I do. It's like such a good book and it's making me really happy to exist. And a lot of what like they're like a hit checkers guy to the galaxy, you know, like that's the last book that's done that for me, which is made me like so happy that Douglas Adams existed. And I get a big theories and thoughts and feelings. Yeah, I'm like, wow, someone thought of that, our brains are bigger than, you know, in these preclenses times. For everything feels kind of preclensity. And I know I'm not going to write that fucking book, so I appreciate that Adrian Chikowski has. Yeah, so that really sat down and counted it out. Yeah. So that's making me happy. I agree to greed. What's yours? Okay, mine is this is it. This was a tweet that I received two days ago you did too. From a woman named Molly on hold on. Oh, sorry, Haunted Train. That's so fucking loud. It's me, Chernec on Twitter. And she wrote to us and said, don't be alarmed if there's a body down there in quotes. And then the headline of the article that she sent us sent us says sinkhole reveals hidden room below family's garage. And then there's a picture of shelving that they can see through the hole. And on the shelf, there's toys, but it's also all dark and creepy. And it's like this article, so it happened in Idaho Falls, Idaho, this family, apparently when they like, there's like an inch of cement. Yeah. And then the sinkhole happened. And basically there had been an hidden room underneath their house. And it's in a place where there's normally not sellers. Right. So they're like, they think it's possible that could have been like a bomb shelter, but probably not. Yeah. And a bunch of stuff that's down there has been down there for like 40 or 50 years. Is that is that how I couldn't find how long it was. It's like 40 or 50 years. I don't think that they were like letters and shit. Yes. But they thought it's the crazy. Let me see if I can get a year that the home was built in the 50s. And it was built as a basement home. Then someone came in the 70s and remodeled it and added the second story. So I've been in the 70s. Someone put it down there. Yeah. But they say it's definitely not a bomb shelter. And that it's sketchy. And the insurance provider and the engineer are the ones that said, don't be alarmed if you find a body down there. That's amazing. Don't be alarmed. Yeah. Because they're basically going down there and looking through it. It's just like that picture of the old kind of water moldy letters and stuff. It's just the creepiest story of all time. So I'm very, as I think you know, but I'm not sure if everybody knows, but I'm obsessed with sinkholes. Sinkholes are truly my passion. Any time Nika, I was, I was never more livid. Remember the sinkhole that came up off of Laurel Canyon? Yeah. I was up in Petaluma. And I saw it on the news and I was livid. Because you couldn't go meet it in person. Yeah. I would have walked right down there. I would have paid top dollar for that meet and greet. And I'm like, hi, where did you come from? What's your deal? What's happening down there? Is it a, are you a hidden river? Or are you something entirely different? That's amazing. Yeah. Sinkhole and hidden room. Come on. My favorite sinkhole. That's amazing. This is a double z's for you. It's a sinkhole and a hidden room. And because the best part about usually sinkholes fill back up with water, because that's why they're there in the first place. It's like the water table got too close. Bloody block. Yeah. Well, it's made up. But it's a water involved. Yeah. That's why. It's erosion, but it's underneath. Okay. Anyhow, there's no water in this in that cellar. It's like they can go down and look into it. No, it's not like you got flooded immediately or filled a silt. No, I want to go. I want to go down there. Let's go. It's like an amusement park. Let's go. I know who is not that far away. And we're back. We're back. Finally, it's time to talk about the number one title of this of 10 years of podcasting. Pro-Clensity. - I stand by that word. - Truly my favorite. - Okay, we could be called Deaf Confetti. - Oh, 'cause we're the Confetti. - That's right. - Or White Blue, White Blue, which was, when I removed my song "Leader Gloves Around." - How about the Colombo of Diseases? (laughs) - Or the shellfish constable. - Love that. - I mean, that was a good one. - Oh, the couch is forever. - I mean, there's so many. - Fuck sex, the joy of kittens. - It's just Pro-Clensity wins. - I don't think there's some funny ones, but I feel like there's, I just remember that title. - It sounds like a word. - All right. - That's it for this week's rewind. - Let's go back and say goodbye from good old 2018. (scary music) - Thanks for listening, everyone. - Yeah, that was a fun one. There's all kinds of crazy shit in that one. - Take it, run with it. - Do your thing. - Do a fucking Herky at the end of it. - Do a Herky, I'm, if it's, please, if you're going to correct me on the Herky positioning, don't do it. - You have to be a professional cheerleader. That's all only take emails from professional cheerleader. - And you have to send a video of you doing a Herk. - We need the correct Herk. And then we'll play the audio of the video. - Right. - Of the video. (laughs) - And break it in the back. (laughs) - Herky, Herky. - Thanks for listening, friends. - Stay sexy. - And don't get murdered. - Goodbye. - Bye. - Elvis, do you want a cookie? What cookie? Oh, there's a little one.