Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 104: Garden Party

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episodes from our 2018 podcasting memory suitcase plus case updates today we're rewinding to episode 104 which we named garden party of course we did this episode originally came out on january 18th 2018 and it also marks the two-year anniversary of the show which we realize halfway through the episode steven let's listen to the intro of episode 104 center yourself yes syria are you centered i feel like i might be are you in the center i'm kind of i'm a little sideways a little wonky i might be a little wanky that's because this is my my favorite murder the podcast with the consistently worst opening in the history of podcasts you know we we invite you in slowly with awkwardness right by making you want to turn it off but but you stick around for the rest of the show and we'll see you in the next episode we'll see you in the next episode because you're like maybe this could get worse that's that's karen kilgariff that that sigh is karen kilgariff and that and that fake sigh is georgia hardstark hi hi we're here to talk to you about true crime and all the things that we have now associated with true crime which is everything which pretty much anything anything everything all of it the thing i'm loving now is just consistent pictures of old razor blade holes and all of the things that i've seen in the past and i've seen in the past and i've seen in the past and i've seen in the past in people's bathroom cabinets like 2018 is all about shit hidden in walls yes and especially if you have an old timey medicine cabinet go check yours i bet there's so many people listening like what are you fucking talking about yeah go downstairs i don't know if you're upstairs i don't know why your bathroom's downstairs wait first of all why are you upstairs go downstairs someone's in their car right now they don't know so go upstairs go upstairs to the double decker bus you know the double decker bus driver how you do it go upstairs go upstairs to your mansion go into the bathroom why don't you have a bathroom upstairs yeah that's so weird everyone does and why don't you do you and then open your cabinet and is there a thing that says razors can go in here or whatever the fucking old timey font yes is there a little old-fashioned hole that seems haunted and could have a bloody remnants of somebody in it so much dna so much vintage dna that would be fun and just maybe you stare at it for a couple hours then you start to pull at it and you write a book of short stories about every person who's put a razor into that fucking hole first it's an old guy then it's a young guy and it's a lady shaving her legs yes can we get a woman this is why is the patriarchy taking over your short book of short stories never forget women shave way more than men so much more we're just all of our bodies face and legs all of it listen when you get to be 30 something you're going to shave your face too don't worry about it one of my favorite tweets is our friend morgan murphy hilarious comedian morgan murphy she has my favorite tweet of all time which is your girlfriend shaves her toes holy shit yeah just a little drop of hardcore information that's good sorry it's the truth like an italian yep just get it done real quick you don't need 240 characters to get the good stuff going amen you know i had to take the like close-up mirror down from my wall in the bathroom the like let look at this mirror yeah real close at all the hairs and stuff i had to take it down i only i saved that special occasion hotel rooms only good call but then you're like what is wrong with me i know and you look at your face you're like why hasn't anyone told me but when i was growing up we got those for christmas one year my sister and i when i was like 14 and 16 because your mom was like girls she it was someone else that gave them to us holy shit and we used to sit at my desk in my room with the lights out and that thing on it like switching it you know how it'd be like day evening night or whatever evening and night are the same but not on this it was like yeah one was green one was bright one was like really pinky what if you're after like what if you're at like a like a late afternoon to night party like that evening is gonna come and you're gonna need to look your best you're gonna have to yeah you have to adjust your eyebrow plucking to the light or men will never love you and you'll never find a husband never find a man you will not land a man at this garden party unless you pluck your chin correct your jessica mcclintock dress can only get you so far and that fucking updo that permed updo you better get your list of topics to talk about in small talk conversations and you better shave your upper lip or thread it or do something something don't forget about those nose hairs because that's a reality girl here's the worst one oh no just as well i'll just catch a random black neck hair yeah yeah i got the chin i got the chin covered you got the neck you take the neck i'll take the chin neck might be like the next stage up since i'm like a whole generation older than you question is it going up or down i feel like it might be going down oh no no it's horrible you're in for a treat i'm in for the night that's why i do not leave my house i can't trust my neck i don't know what's coming out of there anyway what we're talking about oh yeah you got the mirror just i would stare into it and pluck my eyebrows and look at my pores for so long that my dad would just keep walking by my bedroom door going he would make a noise like it was a bug light and i was like a praying mantis caught on a bug light he's like look at the bug light you're not helping dad stop it you're not helping they never helped no why would they they want you to suffer so you don't get me well it fucking worked and like reach great heights or whatever you know why because then you're gonna fall further you're welcome 14 year old karen see it doesn't hurt as bad when you don't climb as high when you stumble upwards it's better than when you climb upwards that's right right or or soar upwards right that takes so much effort that's for the rich that's for like people who don't have friends or like time for friends yeah time for pets yeah that's for people who are like oh i'm a concert clarinetist well congratulations yes go do that then by yourself i can't have a dog or a cat i just i'm never home i'm working all hours and it's like well then you're living your life wrong yeah you need a pet bring it with you bring it to the symphony with you yeah let's teach it to fucking play a horn instrument wait speaking of which can i tell you sidebar that i took my dogs to the dog beach yeah which is like i'm so jealous i can't take my cats to the dog beach you shouldn't they would not have a good time but although it is one big cat box really like that they'd be like whoa nope i don't think that would happen everywhere we go we can shit but because it had rained so crazy down here there was so much garbage and seaweed on the beach frank was like in heaven it was like a mini beach garbage dump what was in there um well there was one whole huge fish no way by just a big dead fish that's so cool then there was a big dead fish lots of what looked, it was pieces of plastic that looked like they were from legs pantyhose containers like the eggs we're like why are there so many plastic eggs around then there was like a basically an ikea futon frame um there's a little kid in the surf that was pushing out a huge like it what looked like the gnarled base of an oak tree and he was just it was like mom where's his mom or dad they were like oh good a project you go do that in the in right in the one word pathogens just everywhere one small cut on your foot one tiny cut do you watch house go watch house they'll never trace that disease i know all those beautiful young doctors on the beach oh my god and there was like oil it was really dirty and i took my feet i took my shoes off and then i was like oh karen i didn't think about it until like 45 minutes in and i was like oh i'm there's no way i'm not gonna have some crazy mystery rash this this podcast is gonna change to my favorite staff infection like tonight get your fucking feet off my couch everything's covered i keep everything in surgical booties until i'm clear two weeks please do this is what happens when you leave the house but what would your favorite staff infection be oh god there's a lot there's so many good ones i really do love foreign bodies foreign bodies i like a good jump on a rusty nail oh i did that once in sixth grade i don't like that it was intense but i think i did it because i was at a slumber party that i didn't want to be at it was it was very intensely christian i was like i've got to get out of here and the next thing i knew i was like jumping in a field and i landed on a rusty nail i was like well it looks like i got oh my mom unless we can uh break into your parents liquor cabinet and just pour some alcohol on this or wherever i think i need to be driven away from here whatever the medical procedure is it's it's not going to take place it's not it's not praying over my foot no it's not going to be with your weird christian records got to go love the lord see you at school but i can't handle this um i'm watching a show on netflix yeah you might be watching that everyone loves called the end of the fucking world no do you heard it no oh it's so good what is it okay it's like okay it's like if you took um harold and maude yes anti-wes anderson anti like angry at wes anderson like anti like cute and and like kitschy in that way but like no shot is centered nothing is no okay maybe just wes anderson but like dark wes anderson okay got it okay and then like uh it's just like it's dark but like cute and cool it's like these it's really good and there's it's murdery and there's these two young kids in it and they're like he looks like harold from harold and maude and she's super adorable and they maybe they murder someone we don't know like it's a really good show i love it should i read you the thing instead of telling you sure about it in my mind i'm not going to read it in my own special way i feel like what you just did was very clear listen if i say it's good it's probably good i mean i feel like you're batting i'd say eight for ten sure where'd i get where'd i go wrong i don't know i couldn't give you 10 out of 10 i just couldn't well that's fair enough because i'm again i want you to climb i want things to be hard i want you to earn it if you compliment someone without a little bit of a negativity in it they're just gonna not try anymore that's right they're gonna get a big head uh-huh and you know that's the worst thing that can happen right then they're gonna show up at a fucking garden party with hairs coming out of everywhere oh look at me i'm so pretty i have a beard yeah no this is wrong what's happening you're never gonna find a husband you're you you and your jessica mcclintock dress you won't be loved we'll grow old together oh sure you can wear that dress all you want but the floral is not gonna land you a man it's not the florals no it's the clear chin it's a smooth chin and a feminine chin so shut up shut it what are we doing i don't know what do you have to talk about okay anything yeah i do uh two weeks ago the last in person upstairs what did we call this podcast when it's us not live i talked about the beast of jersey a whole i somebody said i was making conversation with somebody and they were like what was your last show about they had never listened to the podcast they were just trying to be polite and i went into a synopsis of what the beast of jersey was all about and as i was saying it i was like stop talking now you were like oh they were being polite they were they don't want to know about the fucking leather mask this person wore plastic weird ravey that they raped out of anyone they raped everyone they could get yeah by themselves which is why i think people listen to this podcast and why you and i are doing it is that we realize we can't talk to anyone about that's exactly right we all have to meet here if we want to have the these are not dinner conversations no your friend's new girlfriend okay these are this is like a podcast of i i don't get the face of someone who isn't interested when i tell them about this isn't it cool and then but usually they they like they kill inside their own race and they didn't kill inside their own race anymore and he did this that's amazing nobody wants to know about that that's in real life people are like anyhow she's did you hear about the bomb right um so anyway yeah uh but it but as some of you know i did talk about the kind of cows because the islands we were talking about were jersey and and guernsey and so then i began to hold forth like a cow expert you are because um i am i am a c plus cow expert that's how much i got it right and i'm very angry and ashamed because i grew up amidst cows i had to smell their shit every day i it was all hay and cows and alfalfa and non-stop dairy so the fact that i got this wrong is both shaming and then also i'm not sure why i keep i mean proximity doesn't equal fucking knowledge knowledge very true here we go are you ready always um this is from gail okay gail you're up she gets right into it you're absolutely right about the jersey and guernsey cattle breeds coming from the islands in the english channel but a little not right about oh that's so nice a little not right you're just a little not right which is so accurate um about what those cows look like jerseys are the smaller brown ones and their babies look like little deer they are the cutest even the groans are cute guernseys are brown and white cows and they aren't as common the black and white cows are holsteins that's what i was talking about okay both jerseys and guernseys are known for their rich and flavorful milk that is high in protein and butterfat although the milk that you buy from the store has been standardized in its nutrient composition by removing fat and adding it back in government so the fat content fuck the government so the fat content is most important for making other dairy products besides milk jerseys are particularly popular because even though they are small and don't make as much milk as larger cows they are much more efficient and making milk think of them as the priuses of dairy cattle and i will from now on uh i'm a professor of dairy and animal science hell yes so i was pretty tickled to hear you guys talk about cows while i was talking about cows and simultaneously listening to your podcast and scrambling to edit powerpoints about cows before the semester starts it's like her episode that's it was like made for her she's like listen i hate serial rapists yeah but here's my chance to shine but still i found something i could i could love here and that's what we try to do this is what it's all about and then she said cheers to all and especially the pets gail and then in parentheses it says which in my case is a woman's scientist name i don't know what that means um oh that's great so thank you gail also thank you sarah emma ali and everyone who tweeted us this correction we got emails from sarah emma and ali also that were all equally as informative about cows that's nice um so just so everybody knows jerseys are the prettiest cows guernseys are like jerseys less pretty sister oh now we're gonna get a mail from i'm going for it holsteins are black and white cows like from an old country folk painting and then uh the ones i grew up with were heifers which are the orange and white ones i believe they are or maybe that's i have never known so much about cows in my life and and isn't it fun like you can now take this straight to a dinner party yeah instead of talking about murder you go straight into listing cows and their colors you know how everyone loves to talk about you just wait for a nice pause in the conversation did you know the ones that look like they're are jerseys they're heifers and then you got fuck the government fuck the government may i have that salt and pepper please because um can i say correct to correct nobody really but just to read this hi ladies and then in presence he says steven animals oh and this is called some monosauri insight about georgia's dirty feet oh here we go um blah blah really nice stuff and then uh on episode 102 you mentioned attending monosauri schools and georgia recalls having a feet washing bucket as a monosauri teacher i was cackling in my car this dirty feet scenario is totally not a fever dream the goal of monosauri schools is to teach independence life skills and appreciation of nature you are lucky enough to go to get to go outside and explore and learn allowing those feet to get nasty bless your teacher for allowing the children to wash their feet water so fun we only have a hand washing station i'm not nice enough to let my little ones take a shower take their shoes off outside anyways thanks for all you do uh stay sexy wash those feet don't get murdered jamie uh well jamie though Like, I bet that's smart because you don't want like a child staph infection. Don't step on a fucking rusty nail. Do not. They'll jump on it just to get out of school. Oh, definitely. Lazy. Anyhow. Oh, I guess this last one. This is just a fun email. Yeah. It's even pulled for us. Look and listen. David Fincher. Yeah. The subject line from Gina. Hi, ladies. And honorary lady, Stephen Raymore. Stephen's triumphantly raising his fists. So good. Was watching Seven for the first time. That's such a good movie. You've had 29 years. I was watching Seven for the first time and noticed this. And then she pulled a screen cap and it's Morgan Freeman standing in front of Brad Pitt. And the line he's saying to him is, I want you to look and I want you to listen. Okay. And then she back in the email says, just saying. Has anyone ever seen Karen and Georgia in the same room as Morgan Freeman? Karen and Morgan. And certainly share that deep, distinguished voice. Oh, my God. Lots of love. Plus some sloth, greed, gluttony, et cetera. Gina. That's everyone. So goddamn funny. If you haven't seen Seven Murderinos, young murderinos, go watch Seven. Oh, my God. If you haven't seen Seven. Creepy. This conversation ends here. Yeah. Pause it. Pause it. Go check your go downstairs and check your medicine cabinet. That's right. Go back upstairs. Go back upstairs to your. Why is your TV upstairs in your bathroom? My bathroom is downstairs. It seems inconvenient. Yeah. Because a basement bathroom and an attic TV room is just hard for the family. Is your house only a basement and an attic? What does that mean? Or maybe you're a Dr. Seuss character. Do you have a hat where that machines that clean the house come out of it? Yeah. You might want to check your hat. Check your fucking hat. Check your hat. And then check the fucking government, man. Yeah. Tell them about cows. Inform them. Who goes first this week? I think it's you, right? Did I go? But then we had a live episode. Oh, yeah, but didn't we say we were doing we're not counting on first this week. I was counting on going first this week. Good because I had to do it last week. Yeah, I find it technically and technically yeah, you think a bird you think that I think going first is better because then I can fucking chill as shit. Oh, drink my sparkling wine. Oh, you know what I mean? Yeah, I do. So but I can't go first every week because I would suck. Yeah, that would say it does suck. It's like you kind of have to get everything up off the ground. Right. All right. All right. You set a tone. Yeah. And then what I'm trying to intimidate you, but you really control the mood right now. Just kidding. Fuck. Oh, no. The thing, too, is what if what if this is your murder? What if my murder is your murder and I go get it first? Then you don't have to go. I can't wait. Then I just sit back and go like, yes, girl, tell it. Yeah. Yeah. You forgot this part. Let me tell you this thing. I'm telling you this fucking thing. OK, we are back. God, do you remember? When the like, well, things and walls kicked off, but the the razor slots kicked off? That's what it was. No one knew what that slot was in old timey medicine cabinets. Right. Which I I didn't. And we didn't. We had I had that actual fucking thing in my grandma's house. Yeah. And that was so fascinating to learn. And we all kind of discovered it together. And then then then it basically we built from there of like, that's fascinating. What else? Yeah. People started sending us the photos of the razors and their little things. And that was very exciting. I was just telling Georgia off mic that this we are now getting into episodes where I can remember. Yeah. Kind of like very clearly. Those early days were very blurry. Absolutely. But then we kind of get into when we start going like, oh, someone's giving us an idea and then we're building an idea. Right. And we're getting like responses because it's and then so it had been two years. So people had like been around at that point and it wasn't just like new anymore. No. It's like that we were really getting that call and response part of the podcast, which is like the best part of the podcast. Yeah. And of course, becomes the worst part of the first point. The best, the worst, all of the things, the whole caboodle. I would love to address that. I, to this day, feel shame about how I got about everything, about how wrong I got my cow information when I claim to be from the country and I claim to be agriculturally based. You're not? Well, I'm kind of a fraud because I am not like a dairy rancher. I'm not. I don't know. Yeah, but you're from like a farm area. I grew up around them, but like I love to, you know me, I love to be like, oh, yeah, it's me, the expert. And then they're like, it's not a it's not a Jersey cow. It's a Guernsey cow or whatever. And you're like, oh. All right. So eight years later and you're. Still eating shit about it. It was a good way. This is one of the many things this podcast taught me. Yeah. Which is what the. Internet taught me as a Gen Xer, whereas like you can't just freely kind of fib anymore because people can immediately be like, no, it's not. Right. That's wrong. Fact check immediately. Or you're you're talking to so many more people than you were with before. Yeah. This that there's going to be someone who knows what they're talking like, what you're bullshitting about. Yeah. And they're going to call you on it. I'm going to be like, no, I'm a cow doctor. And actually. And I'm mad. Actually. Do better with cow doctoring. Come with me. To the cow doctor. Fucking love that guy. All right. End of the fucking world. That was such a great show. Yeah. You called that one early. Good one. Uh huh. We had a whole our Montessori thing, which is like the fun thing that Allison found the update that Montessori is actually getting bigger. Really? It's not going away. Huh. So, OK. She actually says Montessori education has continued to grow in popularity with approximately 5000 Montessori schools now operating across the U.S. Yeah. And we had both gone to. Yeah, that's like that's weird. And we had lower back tattoos. Yeah. And we have a podcast. I mean, same podcast. I mean, just like meant to be clearly crazy. All right. So I guess I go first in this one. You do go. Would you rather go first or second? Like as a rule? Second. Really? I think primarily because it's the weird thing of in comedy going last is the position to be in. Yeah. It's hard to get out of that where first you do have to kind of. Set up the whole thing. You're you set the tone. Yeah. I think I like going first because when I have to wait, I'm just like nervous the whole time about going. And I'm thinking the whole time about my delivery and how it's going to go. And so I can't concentrate. Like when I go first and I'm done, then I can fucking just completely chill out and listen to yours. Yeah. So it's another reason why it's a good combination. Yeah. But I do like the way that we've turned it into like good, like bad story, you know, heartwarming story. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually those are one of our many producing decisions of like we have to consider the rollout for the listener. Totally. Not just for what we like to be doing. Yeah. Always learning. Right. The producing on this show is just invisible. It's amazing. So on this one, Georgia goes first. And so, you know, she's happy because she just told you. Fucking good one. Oh, this is an incredible survivor story. Let's get into it. It's Georgia's story. It's about the survival of Susan Kuhnhausen. Okay. And now we can start. All right. So I found this story and decided to do it and then found out that it is also an I survived up. She's in an I survived episode. Yes. So this is special for you. Thank you. So I watched the I survived episode. It was great. But also I got a lot of love from you. I got a lot like most of my information from a an article in the Willamette Week by Beth Slavik from 2016. So cool. Thank you, Beth. Good job. Yay. We're proud of you. Okay. So this is the story of Susan Kuhnhausen. Okay. Any bells yet? No. I feel like I'm like reading to the master. Can I just do a quick brag? Yeah. My sister said last weekend, I think it was. She was like, there's an. I survived on. That's amazing. Right now, you need to watch it. Woman who escaped a serial killer. And I wrote back, does she have red hair and a green sweater? I've seen it already. And my sister goes, oh, that was great. Because I know. Yeah, honestly, I've seen them all five times. I've seen maybe two. OK, you're the queen of this. So I felt a little. But I think that this is, you know, do you mind if I will listen to you and guess the whole time I'll bring in when I think. I know that's what this podcast is. Yeah, girl, this podcast isn't be quiet while I tell you about the story. So I guess you please be quiet. Interrupt the shit out of me with incorrect guesses. This is the one time I've been interrupting you for two years straight. Yeah, but this is the one time you're like, could you please be quiet? This isn't it? I survived. It's actually really. And wait, literally two years straight today. That's right. It's our two year fucking anniversary. My God, existing of existing and having real fucking personalities. Yeah. Live. Do having an interest that we share. Yeah. This could possibly be interesting. First day of the rest of our lives. Insanely. Dude, two years. High five, Georgia. Hard start. Thank you. You too, Karen. This fucking podcast would be going to Montessori. No, it wouldn't. That's too young, right? It's too young. OK, but unless they're working daycare, working moms. Yeah. Listen, we get Steve. Steven, will you be this podcast? And Stephen's a podcast nanny. Yeah, I would think so. Steven. Thank you. Yeah, I'll take care of you. Yeah. You would be a Manny, right? Oh, right, right, right, right, right. Steven, you came in, what, a year and a half? I mean, like six months in? My, I guess, two-year anniversary. Of course he knows. There's a heart in his calendar. Oh, yeah. It's like a little, like, in my locker. It's like, cutouts. My two-year anniversary is in May. Okay. Yeah. Well, we're going to say right now that we'll get you something for your two-year anniversary. And then we won't. But then we'll make up for it, and it'll be even better. Yes. That's exactly all I can hope for. That's all you've ever wanted. That's how we do, right? Yeah, exactly. You know how we do. I love it. Yeah. Okay. All right. Susan Kuhnhausen. Okay. Here we go. On the evening of Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 51-year-old emergency room nurse of nearly 30 years, Susan Kuhnhausen, ended her shift at Providence Portland Medical Center and headed to her appointment at Perfect Look Hair Salon. Susan, in East Burnside Street, on East Burnside Street, Portland, I guess you know what that is. Yes. You already know, don't you? No, no, no. I don't. I know that area, though, the Burnside District. Oh, okay. Yeah. So, Perfect Look. It's our new hair salon. It's so good. It's so good. Susan had moved to Oregon in the early 80s. She settled in Portland, and she was well-liked by everyone who knew her. Of course, everyone says she's outgoing, vivacious. She's this amazing nurse. She's loved by everyone. In 1988, when she was in her early 30s, Susan. Susan, along with a friend and her mom's help, placed a singles ad in the Willamette Week, which is what this fucking. I just realized. This is what this article is from. Oh, yeah. I can put it together. That's awesome. That's amazing. That's a very popular circular up there in Portland. I think it still exists. Yeah. Looking for. And so, she placed a singles ad, which is how you used to find love. It's like before. Could you imagine? No. It's just like, oh, it's all like letters and numbers. And like, I'm a. Uh-huh. Totally. Taurus, S, F, L. S, M, L. Looking for. D. I think my mom put one of those in like Irvine Weekly or whatever in the 80s. Did she get any. Did she catch any good fish? I'm sure she didn't. Jesus. The guys she dated were horrendous. Were they sickening? No, they were just like. Like, single dads in the 80s were creeps. Yes. You know what I mean? A lot of transition lenses, a lot of mustaches. Yeah. Yeah. All right. This isn't about me. Okay. Or Janet. Or Janet. It's always about Janet. Okay. So she wrote, looking for a quote, someone different. And then about herself, she wrote, overweight, but not over life, which I love so much. There's your. There's like a. That's a necklace instead of like, live, laugh, love. Overweight, but not over life. But not over life. And then you kick a stranger in the dick. As he's reading that. Yeah. Insighted by your necklace. Can you know the website Reductress? Mm-hmm. That I'm just obsessed with? That I'm just obsessed. Like, their fucking headlines make me laugh so hard. They're so funny. And their articles. It's like. It's like the onion for women. Yes. They're. They have like a merch now. And one of their. They have a shirt that has an arrow. And it's up to. The arrow goes to your face and it says, my vagina's up here. They had one after the Golden Globes that said, zero quotes from men about the Me Too movement. They're so funny. It's so good. Okay. Someone different. Seeks SM. Who wants more out of a relationship than just, quote, slender. Fucking girl. Yes. Wow. And this is in the late 80s when none of these attitudes were allowed. No. You go to fucking Jazzercise and you diet and reduce while you're nothing and no one. It's bulimia or bust, everybody. It was a hard time. Yeah. But then meanwhile, we were being tricked into ingesting fake diet food that was actually filled with sugar. So, like, we all thought New York seltzer was diet. Yeah. And we're like, this is so delicious. And you drink like seven of them and it's just like drinking coke. Right. And then you scream at your kids. Yeah. Okay. Okay. 39-year-old Mike Kuhnhansen responded. And about him, Susan said, quote, he had a nice voice. I was impressed he wanted to talk about deeper things, which I wrote. Red flag. You know. No, he doesn't. He goes straight to poetry. Get out of there. Deeper things. Deeper than what? Than what? Okay. Their first date was in February 1988. Mike was adopted as a newborn in 1948. Grew up in Portland. And he told Susan he saw combat in Vietnam, but military records list him as a switchboard operator. Oh. Within the year, they drove to Reno to get married. So, she marries this dude, Mike Kuhnhansen. Okay. It quickly soured. She said, quote, it wasn't long after. Wait a second. Wait a second. Don't give it away for the listeners at home. I won't. I think I know. Just say it. Give me a. Give me like a. Key word. She finds him in the house. No. Okay. But close. I think you do know you're just not there yet. Okay. We got to get you a little further. And then you're like, yes. Okay. Then it wasn't very long after we got married that there was no more hiking, no more going out. Yeah. Because people say they're into shit, that they're not into shit. And then in a year, they're sick of you, which is why you need to start a relationship saying, I like to sit at home and binge watch shit with my cats and fucking get takeout. Yeah. What's past like topical weekend interest. Just yeah, that's the reality of the relationship. Nobody likes to hike. No, it's total dating bullshit. It's stupid. It's really dumb. It's for single, desperate, thirsty people. Literally in. Literally. Okay. Papa. What did I have married within a few years of the wedding? Mike got a new job as a janitorial supervisor for Oregon Entertainment, the parent company of fantasy adult video. So basically he started working for an adult video company as the janitor, which has to be like a bomber job, like about, you don't come home from that fucking kicking your heels and hugging your wife. Even if it's all paper products and like guys and ties, there is still a level of, of light scum. I would say on everything that he's, that was his job just to mop off totally literally and figuratively. Yeah. Okay. So he starts slowly revealing to her in the early years that he'd never really been happy. His life philosophy, she says was life's a shit sandwich. And every day you take another bite. Right. Until you die. Fucking thanks. Garfield. Jesus Christ. This is why everyone needs to go to therapy and get pharmaceuticals. Yes. Well, not everyone, but this guy clearly, I mean, it's just so sorry. That's all of life to you. Like you're not going to, you have that attitude and you're not going to do anything to change it. Like take a chill pill. And by chill pill, I mean a fucking Zoloft. Lithium. Anything. Something. Help yourself. Okay. So he had chain smoked. He also pounded diet Cokes, which is like, is that why are you being a dick about it? Um, he was very controlling. He would hound Susan about her plans when she went out and he kept track of her spending and complained about all her purchases, which is like, shut up. I need to go to perfect look every two weeks or you're going to tell me I look like shit. Yes, exactly. Also she is an emergency room nurse. Yeah. She's pulling down. That is a union wage. She's doing very well. Yeah. and video store is not the same wage. Probably not. So, yeah, the spending discussion, anyway, go ahead. Let's talk about marriage. Okay, 17 years into their marriage, Susan is like, fuck this shit. She said, I cared about him, but I didn't want to live with him anymore. I wanted to be happy again. So in September 2005, she kicks him the fuck out of the house. Good. And he moves into his father's home. But Susan never changes the locks or the alarm code, which was their anniversary. Oh, well, why would she? It's her husband that she thinks she knows and has a relationship with. Right. Okay. So she wasn't surprised after her hair appointment. She gets home. She's still in her scrubs. It's 637 p.m. She lives in Montevilla neighborhood, comes home, finds a note by the microwave from Mike because they're still talking and stuff saying, Sue, I haven't been sleeping. Had to get away. Went to the beach. He said he'd see her on Friday or Saturday. Love me. He said, he says. So Susan disarms the alarm. Goes to the house to the front, grabs her mail, and she comes back inside and looks through the house to her bedroom and sees that it's really fucking dark in her bedroom abnormally. And she's like, oh, I thought I opened the drapes that morning. There's like something is off. She knew it immediately in the in the fucking ant insect part of her brain. Well, there's what is scarier than that? Yeah. When you're standing in your house and there's something off, there's something that you didn't do that. That is like I always have a lamp. There's a one lamp I never turn off. Ooh. And if that if that were off, if I came home and that were off, I would be like, well, I would think I got my electricity turned off, which happens constantly. But my thing is, like, if my cats aren't if one of the cats aren't greeting me, there's something wrong in the house. Yes. You know, like, yes, they're scared. There's there's a reason if my dogs aren't there barking at the window like I'm the mailman. I think they're both dead. Like I. Oh, yeah. They ate chemicals. They ate whatever. Like I go through a whole thing of trying to go into acceptance about losing both dogs at the same. And then Georgia, like, walk up like, what do you want? I was sleeping. The other day, Vince and I came home and the whole house smelled like cigarettes, like someone had just smoked a cigarette or was smoking a cigarette in the house. It was really fucking creepy. And we like went room to room and looked everywhere. And what was did you have a window open? No, I don't know what it was. It was probably someone in the hallway or something. Wait, I think we've talked about this already, but did I ever tell you about my friends who live in New York and they they are the producers of Eugene Merman's Comedy Festival. And they, um, put a camera in their house because they, in their apartment, they kept noticing little things move. And, and, um, so finally they put this, a camera in their house that would switch on if there was movement. Yeah. And, um, so the guy was at work, it switches on their landlord just is going into their house, walking around. And she's, it's one of the creepiest videos. They showed it to me and she's just really slowly walking around and looking at everything. Oh my God. And she like at one point walks upstairs, which is just their bedroom and is up there for like three minutes and then comes back down. I never told you about that. And then she just leaves. But it was like one of the creepiest, weirdest things I've ever seen. How come she was moving shit? It's like she would, she would look over like for a while. She'd look at pictures or she'd like lean over. She was just snooping around. So I'm sure one time she like pick up a magazine. I didn't put it down thinking they'll never notice. Oh my God. Isn't that amazing? You know, that's happened in your life. Oh my God. Right? Like someone's gone through your shit. When I was a kid, when I was like at a cert, there was a certain like young part period in my life. I was like 12 or all I fucking did was snoop through my fucking family shit. Yes. Just snoop. A hundred percent. It was so much fun. I would always go through my mom's nightstand drawer because there was always weird, super random. There was never anything good, but it would be like, if I dig back here far enough, there'll be something weird where I'm like, is this sexual? I'm not sure. And it never was. It was like never what I wanted it. One time I thought I found a porn under my parents' bed and I pulled it out and it was just an exercise. Like, um, yeah, I was going to say a VCR. My friend and I went through, we, it was during this time and I had a friend who was like, yeah, let's go through my mom's shit too. And we both had single moms. And we found like, it must've been given to her as a gag gift. Cause now that I'm older, I'm like, no one would use those on themselves. It's disgusting. But at the time we were like, I think we like stopped looking through people's stuff after we found this box of like weird dildo attachments. Yes. We were both like, oh no. Yeah. And never talked about it again. That's the thing that you learn depending from somewhere between when you're 11 and 14, which is you can go ahead and snoop all you want. But there's a, you have to land on the other side of snooping, which is not only that you you're a snooper and you could get caught and then known as that, but then you know something. Yeah. There might be shit you don't want to know. You're not even imagining what you wouldn't want to know and managing that. You're just being like, I know what this is going to amount to. Yeah. Mm hmm. Don't do it. Do not. Or I mean, do, but just know that. But then you have to die with some secrets. You could snoop up a secret that you're, then you're just like, well, we're going to podcast and talk about it. And talk about it years later. It's true. Okay. This isn't about me. This is about Susan. That's right. Disarming her alarm. It's dark in her room. She goes to her room. This is your last chance to guess what this is. I know what this is because it, sorry, Mike is not in the house. No. Okay. But you're, but I know what, you know, you think, okay. You know, but you have no idea. From behind the bedroom door, a man suddenly lurches. Towards her. That's right. It's a hired guy. Sorry. Sorry. Okay. Susan doesn't recognize his face. He's got Dockers, a blue striped shirt on and a tan baseball hat pulled down over his eyes. He has yellow rubber gloves on his hands and is carrying a red and black claw fucking hammer. A claw hammer. A claw hammer. He swings the fucking hammer and his first blow lands on her left temple. Okay. You hire a hit man. And he's like, here's how I'm going to do it. I'm going to bludgeon her to death. I mean, I choose to bludgeon a person as opposed to just shoot them and get out of the house. Yeah. Horrifying. Yeah. Okay. So using her instincts and her three decades of experience in the ER where Karen, all the ER nurses are trained regularly in self-defense, learning how to slip out of headlocks and clutches. Wow. Susan knows instinctively to crowd her attacker and not to like cower and back off. She knows instinctively to crowd her attacker and not to like cower and back off. Because the blows land shittier if she's. The closer you are? The closer you are. That's great. I'm not. Don't. Legally, I am not telling you to do anything when you get attacked, etc. Yeah. And that would have less force. The swings of the hammer if she's not. If she's super close to him. Yeah. She fucking screams at him. Who are you? What do you want? She's fucking yelling at him. But he doesn't answer. Susan's only 5'4", so she's 5 inches shorter than the man. And she has two bad knees from repeated injuries and her excessive weight. She fucking clearly stated in her. In her singles ad. But she outweighed him because he was super skinny. So she says she slams her body up against his. Attempts to push him over, but he doesn't fall. Instead, he pushes Susan against the bedroom wall. Then says the only phrase that he ever. He's going to say that night. Secretly between you and me. The last fucking thing he'll ever say. Oh. You're strong. You're strong. And she says that the phrase sends surges of adrenaline through her. Because she said, quote. With hearing this phrase, she says. He's here to. He's here to kill me. She realized at that moment, I don't know why. I don't know who he is. But his intent was clear. And those are his last fucking words ever. Oh. Susan pushes him again and says, who sent you? She wrestles the hammer from him. And she fucking swings the claw three or four times into his skull. Fuck. She got the fucking hammer. Yes. He grabs it back. And so Susan grabs his throat and says, who sent you here? Squeezing his fucking throat. His face turns red and purple. And then he goes blue. Susan freaks out at that moment and lets go and tries to fucking run. He catches her, though, as she's running from the bedroom. They're in this narrow hallway together. He spins her around and punches her, splitting her lip. Punches her again. And she falls to the floor. And when she looks up, he's standing over her with the hammer. And at that moment, she thinks, I'm going to die today. Why did she let go when his face was blue? I mean, people don't want to kill people. True, but fuck. I know. At least make him pass out. I mean, yeah, but like you think close enough, right? The fact that he was able to get up. I guess so. Who knows? I always think I'm smarter than people in near-death situations. So she knows she needs to get the hammer from him. So she pulls him to the floor with her. So he's standing over her, and she fucking pulls him to the ground with her. That's brilliant, actually. I know. She starts to bite him in her mind, thinking, I know I'm going to die, but I'm going to fucking leave teeth marks so people know that he, like, can find him. Yes. So she, wrestling on the floor together, she bites his arm, his flank, and his thigh, and bites through his fucking zipper to his fucking genitals, to his dick. Shit. They can't write that in the will I'm at, probably. Probably not. At the same time, she's going through his fucking pockets looking for IDs so she can, like, throw his wallet under the bed so, like, the cops will know who it is. Jesus. I know. Well, you know what? That ER, her working in an ER probably prepped her for so many crazy things. There's no time to panic. Yeah. Yeah. She's a real clear thinker in horrible situations. Exactly. She said, I was like a downed power line snapping on the pavement. How cool is that? Wow. I know. The fight at this point had lasted, you know how long this fight had gone on? How long can you fucking fight for, do you think? I would give it a good 19 minutes. Okay, never mind. It's 14. Oh. But, however. That's a long time. I thought you were going to say, like, six hours. I can't even do five minutes of cardio without fucking. I can't even walk up your stairs without being winded. Exactly. Yeah. All right. We'll edit that out and then I'll say six minutes. Okay. Okay. Great. They're both wedged on their sides in this small hallway. She throws a leg over his body, climbs on top of him, hooks her left arm around his neck, so she's got him in a fucking chokehold, WWE style, says, tell me who sent you. Tell me who sent you here and I will call you a fucking ambulance. And all he did was growl. And then she says, when I realized I was not going to ever regain the hammer, it came to me that I need, I needed to become the weapon. Shit girl. Oh my God. She says she leans forward, tightens her forearm against his throat, and he stopped moving. She grabs the hammer and runs outside to the neighbors. They call 911. Here's a quote from the 911 call. Do you need an ambulance? Says they say, do you need an ambulance? And the neighbor said, no, she's a nurse. She says, call an ambulance for the guy. He may be dead. She's like, I'm fucking fine. But she is not. She is. She's on adrenaline. She doesn't know. She doesn't feel like as much of a badass about this as we think of her as a badass. She's like, freak the fuck out about it. Of course. Of course. I mean, not just that this happened to her, but that she killed a dude. Right. Okay. Well, no, that's, I mean, that's a horrible burden. Yes. So the man was fucking dead. His name's, his name was Edward Haffey. He was a 59-year-old Vietnam veteran. An autopsy showed he had a near lethal dose of cocaine in his system when he died. Relatives and friends told police he'd been raised in an upper middle class home and was an avid tennis player. player so something fucking happened and i bet it's cocaine yeah he recently lived or vietnam he recently lived in a trailer on northeast killingsworth street and had a long rap sheet in susan's basement they find ed's backpack and inside is a container of hershey's syrup what two hundred dollars in cash diabetes pill and a day book and a pay stub so court records show that 15 years earlier on february 28th 1991 um this guy edward haffi arranged the murder of his ex-girlfriend 39 year old georgia lee dutton weird that my name is georgia and my sister's nickname is lee yeah not really a little bit a little bit a touch of weird let's go a little her decomposed body was later found along the umpqua river that's right is that right yeah near roseburg so i try to look up details about her murder because i wanted to say something about her murder but i don't know if it's true or not i don't know if it's true but i don't know if it's true or not but i can't find anything at all so he he had pled guilty to conspiracy to commit aggravated murder in 1994 and spent the next nine years in the eastern oregon correctional institution and he had been released in november of 2003 for murder oh god okay oh my god after he got out he moved to portland and in july 2004 was hired by none other than our fucking friend mike uh his name it's a clean floors at adult at fantasy adult video oh so they were workmates they were workmates so which is where the pay stub in his backpack was from oh okay okay and there's also a day book that had an entry that said call mike for september 4th 2006 along with mike's new cell phone number so like not a good murderer no one's covering anything not a good hitman no and and he got killed instead of well i mean the claw the claw hammer is the indicator this is not a hitman this is a like a lunatic yeah definitely so on september 8th mike left a suicide note at his father's house saying all i ever wanted was to be loved and every time i had it i fucked it up no dude you're a piece of shit don't feel fucking sorry for yourself yeah this is not the time for if you've arranged the murder of your ex-wife that yeah it's not the time to talk about how hard things are for you right and how bad it is that you fuck things up so then he takes off 10 a.m on september 13th a deputy finds mike in the parking garage of a kaiser he's mike says he's checking himself in we don't kaiser yeah they won't have they'll have you there for 10 minutes max well for to a psychiatric hold oh sorry whatever talking shit i didn't realize kaiser had any psychiatric uh services available let's go try it i'm i will right now i will so police put him in involuntary psychiatric hold then they put him under arrest for conspiracy to commit murder obviously at a motive his he had lost his job weeks earlier he had no place to live susan had named her brother as a beneficiary on her life insurance policy which is so smart because she was like i'm divorced like she must have had some fucking yeah you know um and mike knew that but susan and mike had paid off that house and it was worth about three hundred thousand dollars and it would be all his if susan died so he mike claims he has nothing to do with it but there's no signs of forced entry at susan's home and the security guard is not sure what the security record showed someone had disabled the alarm while susan was at work mike later said he he had just dropped the note off um but they what they were like you let this fucking killer inside me he's like no no i didn't oh the note was like his cover of like that proves that i was there but it wasn't my thing i was there and i disabled the alarm but it was so i could leave this note and they're like yeah but clearly you just fucking let this guy in at the same time yeah and also if they're getting a divorce or divorced why would she give a shit if he's going somewhere like right tell me when you get back that you want to get a divorce right no it's very it's very stupid yeah so blah blah blah all these other little things happen and we know it's him the promise was a fifty thousand dollar payday for this the dude who killed her who got killed on august 30th 2007 mike pleads guilty to soliciting soliciting maybe susan's murder okay um and that so the hitman's aunt writes a letter to susan in 2010 after all this takes place saying although this was a terrible thing that happened no one in this family has any bad feelings towards you you did what you were forced to do and in doing so you spared many from the same trauma you experienced that's right oh my god that's incredible i know so susan filed for divorce the day after mike's arrest oh they were just separated yeah they hadn't divorced you okay okay and by 2014 she had moved to a new portland home um and like a crazy way cul-de-sac she said she felt like a quote a broken plate glued back together like she's just it's so sweet that she's so fucking heartbroken about having to kill someone even though the person she killed out of self-defense was the person who was sent to murder her that person who attempted to murder her yeah like very seriously she's a badass and she's justified as fuck and what an amazing person and we all hope that we would act the same way in such a it it doesn't really feel that way i think when it happens is what this shows us right it's like first that's that's the effect that has on us right as first person especially as a nurse who's like trained to save lives that's her point in life yeah that's exactly right and she's and she understands why people get into the situation where they're like i'm doing so much coke i think it's okay to kill someone with a claw hammer yeah oh the worst so um so she she's super paranoid this time she says i'm doing a life sentence for picking a bad husband which is like honey don't put that on you yeah we're all broken plates that's the thing we're all broken plates we're all broken plates we've never been whole plates yeah maybe right when we were born but yeah somewhere around yeah i mean it's different for everybody too like this podcast for me i would say it was it really was pre-teen that's when you broke i was just like what the fuck is happening yeah i see that i think when we first have memories like you have a memory because something happens true you know yeah that's right yeah i think i mean five or six i think for me but her yeah that experience would be that's something you really have to work through yes um so mike is supposed to be released and on september 14th 2014 so she's freaking the fuck out she puts gravel all around her house so she can hear any footstep she uh practiced shooting at a shooting range um and she said if he came here he was not going to get close enough to hurt me so can you imagine how terrifying that is yeah then 92 days before his release on friday the 13th of 2014 mike died of prostate cancer in prison at 65 years old shit yeah so she her name is now susan walters she continued to work as a nurse until december 2014 and today she's a motivational speaker and provides self-defense expertise for portland's um for portland police bureau's women's strength and girl strength programs yes and she's a go-to expert on victims fucking rights yeah um she's an advocate and focuses on developing a web-based portal for crime victims uh that portal provides a protected single point for victims to receive updates about their offenders so you know like the people are like i no one fucking told me he was getting out of prison or today was his fucking um parole hearing i could have gone to and said what happened you know you can follow that now yeah that's amazing that's so important um victims of crime crime in mold oh god everyone malton maltonoma yeah maltonoma county is that right yeah can now follow their case their offenders and access resources through uh the website it's case companion.org and i think every fucking city should have this that's incredible and um she said susan says surviving the event itself is difficult surviving a prolonged and protracted criminal justice journey is also equally hard yeah which we like totally that's amazing um so she said being an imperfect woman i married an imperfect man thinking that we could love honor and negotiate and have a good life together but he had issues around abandonment anger and anxiety that he couldn't overcome um she says that she and the family of mike hopes that he finds the peace he didn't find in this world oh and death and that's the story of badass fucking susan kuhnhausen wow that's amazing and there's a survivor i survived about it yeah that's good i watch and it's good but there's another story in it one of the other two stories that's really fucking depressing which one um it's a girl who's closing up like the store she works in and gets held up and like they never found her the person it's just like really and she's so fragile and like clearly like not ready to talk about it yeah there's that show is so good it's so perfectly produced it's so well done but there are i would say about five where i watch and go this person isn't ready and isn't it's beautiful that they're doing it for themselves because i bet it's a great step for them and for other i'm sure other people listen to it and hear it and see this woman telling the story and they're so empowered by her yeah but she just seems so fragile and i it was it made me really sad but it's also the reality of it yeah it's the reality of it totally yeah i i yeah it's so good yeah that show is incredible yeah and then there was a family whose fucking boat like capsized it's always they were cool too i dipped into a frozen river it's like okay and i feel bad for you but there's a woman who's fighting off a fucking claw hammer we need to get back to her right now can we real quick real quick those are always the stories that end first you notice that yeah the boat people the boat capsizes they get rescued and then they're like well god helped me out of the ocean yeah awesome we'll talk to you later hey susan how what did god not help you out of can you tell us god helped them out of the ocean what did you ever do and she's like well i became an emergency room nurse and fucking nailed some shit to the wall yes she did oh it's intense yeah okay we're back are there updates for this story the only update is that the secure online portal that susan helped develop to keep crime victims informed about their offenders and court proceedings which is so fucking important yeah it's still active today it's called case companion and continues to serve the victims in multnomah county oregon and you can learn more at case companion.org and like i mean talk about turning your nightmare into something so incredible and positive to help others i mean and so something that is so needed yeah like that idea you shouldn't have to fight for it no but but like that kind of work and that that idea that somebody going through something horrifying and then taking what was wrong about it and then going i want to make sure this doesn't happen to anybody else totally is kind of the point of all of it absolutely it's life affirming yeah yeah it's what people who get through things and are stronger for it are able to then turn around and do right also that woman And that her episode of I Survived is incredible. I see her every once in a while, like in a, you know, true crime Instagram post. And I'm just like, fuck yeah. Yeah. She's so cool. She really did it. All right. Let's get into Karen's story about the Order of the Solar Temple. October is the month when being scared is supposed to be fun. Terrified in a haunted house? Sure. Your actual house? Absolutely not. Feel safe in your home with SimpliSafe. SimpliSafe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside. I recently got an alert from my camera outside that there is like someone prowling around late at night. And of course, I got freaked out. I opened my camera and it was a big spider dangling in front of the camera, which was terrifying in itself, but such a relief. And I love that I know that it works. Like it's so much better a spider than an actual person, but I'll be prepared. All the answers are on your phone. You don't have to worry and sit there. It didn't wring your hands. 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Sheets. Sheets? I just bought a couch from Quince. No joke. Yes. I love everything I've got from them, clothing-wise. And sheets-wise, why wouldn't I also get a couch from them? So, boom. They know what they're doing. Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was my favorite murder. It's the best way to support the show. Goodbye. Goodbye. All right, well, I went a little culty with mine for this week. Good. I think because. Somebody recommended on Twitter, and I'm sorry I didn't write your name down, because I get very defensive when people recommend British procedurals to me, as you know. Yeah. Because I'm always like, how dare you come to me with a Wallander recommendation? We've talked about this a lot. But I still like it. Let's talk about it more. What? Let's really do a deep dive. This is about you. But somebody recommended a show called Silent Witness, and it is basically a. It's like a law and order in English. It's like a law and order in England, where there are, on iTunes, it's season one through four, and then season like 17 through 29. Like, it's been on for a really long time. It's a procedural, and it's basically about the coroner and the medical examiner. And who's the silent witness? The coroner? The coroner, medical examiner, or maybe the dead body. Dead body, I guess. I'm going to need answers. Anyway. It's a cat. There's a cat that lives in the coroner's office. It's the coroner's cat, like a bodega cat, but in the. Where it just is up on a shelf. Can I just say there's an Instagram called Bodega Cats of Instagram? Yeah. And it's made me never want to eat at a bodega again, because just the photos, I mean, they're adorable, but cats, assholes on everything in a bodega. Like, any fucking bag of Gordettos fucking chips you get, a cat's a bodega cat's asshole. Just do a quick Clorox wipe rinse on the outside of that bag. I can never lick a bag of Gordettos again. That's how you pick what flavor you want. Yeah. Because you lick the outside. They taste like what they're supposed to taste like, right? On the inside? That's right. The outside tastes like the inside. Just like people. I love fucking New York City bodegas so much. As a country girl who we always lived five miles away from anything good, when I lived in New York, the idea that I could walk down the stairs from my apartment and literally 40 feet to the corner and go in and get a bag of Tate's. They always have Tate's. They always have Haribos. They have some weird, like, brand of ice cream sandwiches. Yeah. And the name, the word bodega sounds so cool. It sounds very much like, hi, I'm an art student. I sometimes freebase Coke, but I also just love to come and get an Italian sub sandwich. Oh, my God. Okay. So anyway, I went, I went because I had watched, I think, four seasons of Silent Witness. And there were some, it's such, it's very dramatically produced. And there's a lot of, like, her just standing over a dead body being like, oh, my God. Like, you know, the victim is in a, in rigor where you're, you're like, okay, this is very real. Like, yeah, it's because it's boring. It's a touch boring. They're not afraid to go boring in England. Because that's what it's really like. Because it's real. There's one where it was about a bunch of people who died on a boat. And then every time, so they were just sitting there waiting at the harbor, waiting for the dead bodies to get transported in from the ocean. And then every time it would, there would just be this terrible horn that would sound. And I was like, I bet this is what really happens. This is awful. Like, this is when I turn it off. Exactly. Because you're like, I don't want to experience this. Maybe it will happen to me someday. So how about I don't go through it now? Right. I don't want to hear, oh, God, in my fucking show that I'm watching. Why do they keep driving dead bodies up in these jalopies? It's not funny. It's not, I don't appreciate it. Okay. So anyway, I had a lot of that. So then I was like, let's take a nice left turn and go into. A little cult area. Right. And I thought about the one that I've always been obsessed with, which is the order of the solar temple. Oh, my God. So this was the one where on October 4th, 1994, and this was on. So remember back 94. Remember it. It was on all the news. I don't remember this. Okay. Get ready. Because you might as I encourage you to yell out when you remember. I'm going. You don't have to encourage me. Okay. So October 4th. 1994. It's a place called Morin. I'm assuming it's pronounced Morin Heights. It's a ski resort near Montreal. And authorities are called to the scene of a burning condominium. And when they get inside, put the fire out, they find two charred dead bodies. So they look up who owns the condominium and on the whatever mortgage papers. I don't. Yeah. Owners. Owners. This the signage. Yeah. Area. Yeah. The owners are two men, Joseph and luke jure um so they assume that's these two charred bodies are the owners but then um as the investigators make their way through the burnt condominium apartment they find three more bodies in the back um in the back of the house in like stacked in a closet and those bodies are identified as a man named tony dutoit or dutoit and his wife nicky and their three-month-old son christopher emmanuel are they burned too or they're burned but then once the investigators start looking into it they realize that the front two bodies and the back bodies are all covered in blood so before they burned they were covered in blood oh my god so then they're like something actually happened here well then on tony's body he was stabbed over 50 times in the back holy shit nicky was stabbed in the chest uh and like upper body area like six or seven times oh my god this is the worst part the baby was stabbed in the heart with a wooden stake so they're like what kind of occult shit is going on here i have never heard this before it's it's shitty tell me everything okay so they re then they realize that uh one of the two bodies that they found originally up in the front of the house one of them is a woman okay so they're like oh my god it's a woman and they're like oh my god i don't think this is the owner something insane happened here um so that they they pull out they put out arrest warrants for the owners um because um they had the police discover that all five of these people were members of the order of the solar temple which was a very secretive sect founded by the two men on the owner's papers joseph de mambro and luke jure um then the police find out that tony and his wife nicky had recently left the cult after the owner's papers were found and they were able to find out that tony and his wife nicky had recently left the cult after speaking again out against these leaders and so that's when the cops are like okay we got to arrest these guys but they're nowhere to be found the next day or it's the same let's see it's october 5th in um the swiss village of syria is how it's pronounced um there's a farmhouse that's on fire and uh when the firemen in this swiss village um go there and put it out they find the owner inside he's slumped over a table and they're like oh my god what's going on here and they're like oh my the kitchen table and um there's a plastic bag over his head so they think oh no he's an elderly farmer and this he's committed suicide um then they find a gunshot wound in the back of his head and they're like uh-oh so then um they as they inspect the house they start finding incendiary devices all over the house and um and then they start looking in the outbuildings on the property so there's more buildings um aside from the farmhouse they start to investigate these buildings they also have these incendiary devices in them um and one of them uh the cop one of the cops observes that the outside of the building is really big but when they go in it's really small there's just a small space and it's like an office that looks really busy it looks like there's people that come there to work every day or whatever but it's compared to the outside they're like they start looking for secret panels and they find one and um basically what happens is the entire section of wall is found to be able to slide back oh my god on the other side of this wall they find a huge secret chamber it's decorated floor to ceiling in red no it has these weird mirrors on every wall that at the top are kind of shaped um um a little bit like i don't know what the word is it's like that you know like the top of a turkish turret or whatever where it looks like a hershey's kiss but swoopy fatter yes um anyway i don't know what the word is i don't know what the word is it's all like ritualized there's weird um these weird stands uh like lecterns that are gold they're in there and there's um and then they they so basically it's all obviously used for some kind of religious right some straight up culty bullshit some culty bullshit there's champagne bottles on the ground and in the middle of the floor um arranged uh in a like star formation feet in the center head to the outside are 18 corpses 18 18 they're all wearing uh either red gold or black ceremonial capes and some have plastic bags over their heads um then they find another a second secret room there's three more bodies inside that room um and there's a ton of blood in both rooms so uh the police basically start putting together imagine stumbling upon that no it's a stumbling on a fucking secret hidden room yes like which is awesome the roller coaster of emotions that cop went through where he's like i'm the one that hey i admit and then they slide the wall back and it's like well here you go yeah this is what you wanted here's your secret room friend um so they realize that this is obviously a ritualized mass suicide yeah but there's so much blood in the room they're like oh this wasn't voluntary for a lot of these people um yeah uh and most of the people had been killed by gunshot wounds to the head that were not self-inflicted so that's how they start putting together that this was yeah perhaps non-voluntary suicide or as we like to call it murder uh okay non-voluntary the worst kind of suicide non-voluntary um i am a professional uh psych uh cop okay so then two days later a hundred miles away in the swiss resort village of grange sir salvan thank you so much do you know it sounds nothing like that yeah but it sounds better when you say it i just i'm trying to sell it like i'm a waitress at a fancy french cafe right would you like a croc monsieur or a grange yeah um okay so which is french for baked onion okay uh the fire department is called to now three adjacent chalets that are all on fire and inside each they find eerily similar scenes to the uh syria fire um this time 25 bodies are discovered including three teenagers and four children and most of these bodies these victims have been poisoned um uh and they're all identified through a dental records um to also be members of the order of the solar temple um and in this situation only 15 of the 47 uh were true suicides the rest were murders um so now the search for the co-founders of the order of the solar temple goes international um so basically this cult was founded uh by this guy joseph de mambro who was born in southern france he studied to be a clock maker and a jeweler but he always had interest in the occult and when he was in his thirties he joined the solar temple and he was the founder of the solar temple and he was the the rosicrucians or the order of the rosy cross and it's another so there's all these secret cults or sects that were that are based on the knights templar so the knights templar were uh the knights who went on the first crusades and they came back and then they were so dedicated to this spreading uh of christianity down into the middle east that they began to um protect it was like they they uh vowed to protect all these christian pilgrims that were going down into the middle east so they would they basically kind of were out there protecting people but they also made a ton of money because of the because of the crusades they were just out there you know obviously killing and pillaging and doing all their stuff so they became very rich then their power they were so well regarded that they became really powerful and of course then the popes were like oh my god they're going to kill us and they're going to kill us and they're going to kill us who are these motherfuckers we're supposed to be the most powerful so then they became hunted and then that's when they went underground and it was all secret secret secret so that's what all these people and that's kind of like the um like the dan brown books and stuff where it's all the knights templar this and the knights templar that if if the guy if the guy or gal who does uh animate my podcast would animate that part of you telling me explaining to me the crusades because it's i would say i would guess right now yeah and hopefully there is a history professor listening oh yeah i think i probably got that 57 right okay i think i would have passed a test but not well right a d plus a d plus which is pretty much my average and now in you it would make you happy and then the press would be like you're not supposed to be happy about that you're like i fucking pass bitch i pass bitch and i never thought i could yeah because i can't read um so definitely let me know all the information i'm missing in the 300 years that night the knights templar were in action right um but essentially it became that thing and we've all seen the dan brown what is that book that i can't think of the da vinci code thank you steven steven loves literature um but it's just this idea that essentially they were protecting um mary magdalene who was carrying jesus's baby you know that's like at the end of the day that is supposedly um the uh what what do they call that the -Truth. -The Bible. christianity what's the cup oh the kiddish cup holy grail thank you the holy grail is jesus's baby right it's also called the kiddish cup we had it first oh that's true so don't come at me with a fucking yeah you explain it to me i don't fucking know what's going on anyway this is a religion podcast it's all about secrets they base this whole thing on like secrets hidden treasure hidden money making sure that they could always kind of get this the christianity where they needed it to go okay and have missionaries protected okay so secret societies are like gotta keep it up keep up with the christians right but then as we know when things are secret then little power structures come up and then suddenly you've got two people that are like well i'm in charge of the secret sect and now i've decided we're going to do a they start adding their own shit and it's like no longer are you a knight's templar now you're a foot washer now you're some kind of like i feel like everyone every woman needs to fuck me before we start this ceremony how many times have i said this fuck the government and i'll say it again this is not my fucking phrase that's right ellis fucking knows he's like i'm sick of you saying that he knows he's so sick of it okay so you're going to do a secret society and you're going to do a secret society and you're going to do a secret society and you're going to do a secret society and you're going to do a secret society and anyhow i lost my place entirely okay that's what this podcast is called where am i um he in 1973 joseph de mambo moves to the swiss border he starts a group called the center for the preparation of the new age okay so you know hot stuff is happening in this group let's get together let's weave some looms let's fucking make pottery sure let's talk about the knights templars what year is this again 73 okay um and he begins to tell his followers or the people in the group that he is the reincarnation of the god osiris and of moses um and then he starts telling them you're the reincarnation of napoleon and you're the reincarnation of cleopatra and everybody's the reincarnation of some famous political leader or royalty of some kind doubt it and um then he starts telling them he's the one that's going to decide who's having a relationship with who because he's the only one who knows who they were originally were and now we have this chance to breed a master race of children so let's make sure that like cleopatra has sex with napoleon or whatever he's making up all this shit people like yes sounds good everyone's like yeah we want a bone yeah we want a bone and we want to be dead famous people right so he basically is like i'm in charge of who gets married i'm in charge of who gets to have children so it becomes he goes from like we're a group that gets married and then he's like i'm in charge of who gets to have children together to talk about how grab the knights templar are and now it's like i control every aspect of your life which is how it always goes even though that's how intense and bizarre it was all these respected citizens and extremely wealthy people join this thing because it's all about the um he sells this idea that you if you give enough money you can like absorb the spirituality and power of the knights templar it's this honorable society and you join it and you're forwarding the nation movement or what i don't know whatever um so because rich people get bored is really what that means they get bored and they we all want guarantees right so it's like i'm gonna give this guy who who claims to be what did he um he also claimed to be the reincarnation of a 14th century knight knight templar whatever um and then the other guy uh luke jure he claimed to be the third incarnation of jesus christ he went straight to the top oh man yeah so uh so basically people are getting into it and at that time he changed the name uh joseph de mambo in 1978 changes the name to the foundation of the golden way um he takes a core group of the followers and i was like we're super into this let's go start the foundation of the golden way and in that group that's when um luke jure shows up he is luke jure uh was born in the belgian congo he studied to be an actual doctor then he decides he's not into like traditional medicines and he wants to be a an alternative healer so then he starts getting really into holistic medicine and really into new age shit and he starts um he becomes like a star on the new age circuit he's the one that like in the mid late 70s is out there telling everybody here's how you tap into your inner the god osiris or whatever the fuck it is um when you stop worrying about gas you don't have to worry about gas prices and fucking having a job and money right because you're wealthy yeah don't worry about any of the the things that everybody else in jimmy carter's america are freaking out about right don't worry about it yeah because you have enough money so come join a cult come secret sect with us yeah um so when they meet joe de mambo knows that this guy he's like the face man he's going to be the perfect pitch man for their new cult which they in 1984 basically reconfigure yeah it's going on for so long um they reconfigure and call themselves the order of the solar temple so that's when luke juray comes into joe de mambo's life that's when it all clicks okay so basically uh they in this group they have these rituals that are based on ancient christian and masonic rites um it's all secret so all the members are secret all that you know nobody tells anybody else that they're in this group and at its height they had lodges in canada australia switzerland and martinique um i mean i'll join just to fucking go on vacay i mean right you know just go to an island and then pretend you're cleopatra skiing and shit skiing in martinique um so that was a joke everybody i know martinique is a beautiful island so soon the topic changes and when i say soon i mean after seven years or whatever the fuck soon these people stay in this weird cult they start sending this message that an apocalypse is coming it's an environmental apocalypse man has caused it it's man's fault that it's going to happen and only the elite are going to survive it oh great so if you want to be in that group why don't you kick down all of the money that you have no yeah they they make everybody give them all of their money fuck yeah and it's this insurance so eventually that message becomes um the reason that you should trust us is that uh joe's daughter whose name was emmanuel um she was one of nine existing cosmic children who would lead them all to a planet that was next to the star sirius and um his son also uh eli i believe his name was um his his destiny eli's destiny was to usher in the new age so luckily the leader of this cult two children were the key pieces to like get them to so basically the earth earth was going to end for environmental reasons and then they were going to travel via the path of fire to a planet that's next to the star sirius everyone's like it's great it's crazy and i want to be like how the fuck but like there's there's the podcast heaven's gate that's like super good that like my sad retelling of uh the heaven's gate story last week before the podcast came out by the way i just i didn't know about it yet it was good um it they like focus on a couple actual cult members and explain how it happened and you kind of get it a little more but it's just so bananas and bonkers i think it comes down to that feeling of like when life is feels really plain all the time yeah and then you get introduced to an idea of you're special and there's more than there's more than this and you're correct everyone else is is going along with their everyday life and they're all lemmings you're special i see how special you are come in do my ritual yeah let me show you i have i have knowledge yeah and i will impart on to you yes listen i'm starting a cult right now yeah i mean i'm believing are you in here are you the god of cyrus i have elvis sitting on my lap staring at me she is petting a cat in a kind of evil cult-like way okay i just uncross his eyes it's a miracle yeah she's real yeah so okay so basically this this that talk goes on so long that of course nothing ends up happening and and the members are like yeah okay you've been talking about this apocalypse for a while nothing's going on and i've given you like millions of dollars make the apocalypse happen yeah i'm i want i want everyone else to die i want to see what you're talking about i want these things to happen well also meanwhile um they started getting of course super crazy with their power they they were buying houses everywhere they had everybody's money so they're out like they've got houses here and now you know as you saw chalets and condos every in every city they're hiding fucking rooms they've got they can build things that look like small rooms but that are actually big rooms yeah it's crazy it's crazy it's crazy it's crazy it's crazy um and so the members are like yeah you seem to be getting a lot of stuff but like all of our you know it's on our dime yeah um so uh then luke jure is voted out as grandmaster of the canadian branch of the temple of the soul how mad is he because he starts to demand that when that that one woman has sex with him before every ritual for his to build strength and everyone's like oh my god i'm so mad i'm so mad i'm so mad I was like, okay. But he he's getting everyone started. He's like, all the members are like, you're losing your shit. And it's obvious. And it's creepy. So then he gets voted out. Well, then Joe DeMombro is just like, wait, no, it's our cult. You can't get voted out. What are you doing? Yeah. This isn't a fucking fantasy island or whatever. Yeah. You mean Survivor? Yes. Yes. You knew just as a bit of information. Luke Jure, it shouldn't be a surprise that he lost his shit because before joining the Order of the Solar Temple, he had belonged to a racist neo-Nazi magical organization co-founded by a former Gestapo officer named Julian Oregas. And he was also an illegal arms dealer. So he wasn't a great like he. He wasn't a nice. Do a little background check, rich people. Yeah. Are you a good guy? Can you ride a horse? Are you an arms dealer? These things should disqualify you. So then this is all building, right? So they're like slightly losing control. It's like, oh, no, no. Focus on my cosmic daughter or whatever. Then in February of 1993, it's the 54 day siege of Waco. Oh, shit. Right. So on all of our TVs, we all saw the Branch Davidian. And the and David Koresh and everything. We saw that whole thing go up in flames. Is that going to be a podcast soon or a TV show? Like, I think it's a TV show documentary. I think it's one of those American crimes or something. Right. An experience. I want to see a good documentary. Oh, that'd be fun. Just the longest American dad of all time. He works for the CIA. So, OK, so after that happens and everybody watched it on TV and everyone's like, oh, no more cults for me. Exactly. I think I've had enough. Which is the funniest thing in the world to me, where they're like, oh, this is where we're headed. We're not we're not actually headed to a planet next to the Star Sirius. No, we're just going to burn government style. Right. Fuck the government. Listen, it's my government. OK, so please, please don't hurt me. Government. That won't work. So this is my favorite part. So as all of this is right, it's crumbling, it's crumbling. Our millions, you know, people are walking away our secret. And they really did have they had millionaires, they had scientists, they had famous architects. There was people in this cult, very high level people, a very famous Swiss composer. So it's like a bunch of smarty pants, smarty pants and Richie's smart and Richie fucking asshole. I mean, the whole place smelled like fucking aftershave. So what are we saying? So, OK, then they discover. So our friend Tony Dutois, I don't remember how I pronounced it. The man who was found stabbed 50 times in the apartment in Canada. With his wife and daughter and baby. And his wife and baby. OK, so it turns out he was a longtime member of the Order of the Solar Temple. And he discovered so they would have these rites and rituals. And when Joe DiMambro did them, he could make things fly. He could make things. Like appear out of nowhere. There's all these weird things he did that made people believe that he was special and had special powers. Well, it turns out Tony Dutois discovers that he was using lasers and holograms. No, and he was back in 90. I'm impressed by that. And for. Yeah, even earlier. Yeah, he he basically set it up. So the whole thing was like special effects and fog and light show or whatever and made people believe it was his power. And he was spending. He was spending their money, a ton of money because a hologram back then was very expensive. It's basically like Coach Coachella fucking DJ set. Yeah, but just him and 12 people in robes. So Tony finds out about this and starts going, you guys, this is super fake. We this is a whole thing is a fraud to the point where and so much like distrust and disillusion was going through the whole cult. It was down to Joe D'Ambro's own children who were like, my dad's a fraud, like everybody was not a space cadet. My dad is lying. I can't lead you to that planet now, but that's my favorite. That it was like the the straw that broke the camel's back was that his holograms and lasers were discovered. Yeah. So then everyone's just bailing like crazy. OK, so then he so basically Tony tells everybody. And then like gets out of town. So Joe D'Ambro announced to the remaining members that the detroit's three month old son was the Antichrist and needed to be assassinated. Yes, that's so. So the two bodies that were in that condo from the beginning of the story turned out to be 35 year old Jerry Jeannot and 60 60 year old Colette Jeannot. They murdered the detroit's murdered that baby. And then committed suicide and lit that apartment on fire with the incendiary device that was like all the incendiary devices in Switzerland. Yes. So what awful, awful people. So crazy. And then like once they knew that was happening, they they know it's over. So they announced to the rest of the membership that the apocalypse has arrived and it's time for all of them to travel to the planet next to the star Sirius. Let's go. So it's mass suicide time and and because they they were saying the transformation takes place in fire. That's why all those incendiary device. That's where all the buildings were burning. So what were the incendiary devices made of? You know, I don't. But in my mind, it looks like a light switch with the plate off the front. Yeah. And like there's a little thing tied to this thing and a little and then a mouse choose the road. Yes. Right. And then boom. Yeah. The mouse survives. That's right. My ass is fine. The mouse is innocent. And then a cat swoops down and eats them. Yay. So it was at that farmhouse from the beginning in Syria where Joe de Mombro and Lou Jure met there and along with twenty one other members. So they were OK. They were in Syria then. OK, so that was basically the reason that it's so amazing to me is because I remember very distinctly when I saw it. On the news, they were so vague and it's still you can barely get any good information. Never heard of this. What was really happening. But I remember seeing it on the news and being like, I want to know more. Yeah. And all you ever heard was. So then again, in 1995 in Grenoble, they find 16 bodies out in the forest and they in an area they called Hell's Hell's Entrance or Hell's Hole or something. Which is super creepy. And the creep that you can see a picture online, it's a forest. There's police tape. It looks like it's from like a helicopter. There's police tape. And then it just looks like there's a weird orange light. It's super creepy. I have never I fucking Google weird murders, weird deaths, weird what the fuck, you know, all the time. And I've never heard of this. Fold some Knights Templar in their fold in cult. OK, fold in. Well, so in that forest, there were 16 bodies. And this is a year later. Then two years after that, in Quebec, in March of ninety seven, five people are found dead. And at the last minute, three children who were supposed to also die, convince their parents who ended up dead, convince their parents that they wanted to live and their parents let them go. So three kids escaped. I want to interview them. Right. What's the why they're still killing themselves, even though it's over? Yes. Two years later. Like by who? Like why? So crazy. Or three years later. So the total number of deaths in the order of the solar temple is seventy four. Jesus include. And their members included scientists, architects, policemen and children. And the group had between four and six hundred members. It's estimated to have made in its prime ninety three million dollars. And in in the Grenoble scene where. Nineteen ninety five, where they found sixteen bodies, the wife of famous champion skier Jean Varney, who was the inventor of the awesome eighty sunglasses, his wife, Edith, and their youngest son, Patrick, were among the sixteen victims, so they couldn't have been richer. Those people, they had Varney in the eighties was like, you couldn't be richer. They're the ones with the swoopy thing here, the weird thing here. No, Varney's were like the kind of the original ski sunglasses. So they were mirrored and they were like kind of plastic. Yeah, every every douche fucking skier. Yeah. Instructor houses rich guys. We went skiing the first time we went to Tahoe when I was eight. They made us take ski lessons and my sister had a pair of our knees on and I, instead of listening to the ski instructor, just kept staring at myself in the mirrored reflection of my sister's sunglasses. So I didn't listen to how to stop or what to do. And so basically we went down one run and I was like, I need to take these off. I'm leaving. Yeah, I'm not doing this. I don't. I don't know what's going on. And then we just played in the snow all day. Exactly. Here's a more interesting one. Channel four, the British TV station, they made a documentary alleging that Grace Kelly, the princess of Monaco, was also initiated into the order of the solar temple. just months before her car accident that took her life. Yeah, she was in a car accident. Some say she was not in that car. Some say the body was never found. But her estate denies any association with the Order of the Solar Temple. But the filmmakers who made this documentary for Channel 4 talked to the acupuncturist who worked on Princess Grace before her initiation ceremony, because apparently they did acupuncture to relax people so that they weren't freaked out, I guess. And that woman attested to the fact that it was Princess Grace but didn't want to give her name or information because she's scared because she says that the Order of the Solar Temple is still in effect today, still has members, and she's scared of those members coming to retaliate against her. Like they're hiding out in plain sight. Steven! Steven. And so the very last thing is, when Princess Grace's car crashed in Monaco, her car landed in the yard of a member of the Order of the Solar Temple. The end. Karen. Yeah. That was good. That was a good one, right? That was a really good one. Shit, dude. I know. I want to know everything. I want to know what these people talked about. There's photos. Are there pictures? Yes. There's pictures of, and it's all, the faces are blacked out. There's black bars across the eyes of like an actual ritual. But then there's the empty room where they found the bodies. The ones I saw, it was just the room without the bodies lying in it. But then you can also see there's like graphs of how they laid out the bodies in star formation. I want that. I want that. I want that. Yes. And I think the one, the people that killed themselves last in 1997 in Canada were laid out in a crucifix formation. So the people who, who unintentional suicide, suicide those people did they did they ever figure out if they like were just like kill me or they were like held hostage or because like i could see people like i don't want to kill myself but just shoot me in the back of the head yeah i think what they were saying is the theory is that it wasn't they were like i don't want to do this like they went there for other reasons some of them think they were drugged or poisoned but then it was then they fought them because there was so much blood that it wasn't just like putting people down in an orderly fashion there was like it was a real bloody crime scene so they think it was that's what led them to believe it was the against against your will suicide that's crazy it's fucking nuts man alive secret cults where is the treasure there's treasure treasure oh yeah the knights templar they supposedly that's like nick cage style they're they supposedly oh is that what that is yeah because they went and pillaged everything down in like the holy land they stole all the shit they stole the shit from the fucking jewish people what's that's right that's right chosen ones so it's your it's your birthright to go and find that those gold the balloons and take them back let's do it i would love to let's go on an adventure okay okay goodbye um that was amazing thank you thank you for that absolutely love a cult okay we're back woof karen any updates well the first update is i just want to say i hated that story yeah like i remember when we were talking about it so so so dark and obviously always but for some reason there was the details of the story where i was anticipating much more of like oh of interest like isn't it weird how cults are and then it was just like this this is a great example of my story going second to mine and i'm like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry would have fucking made the episode and exactly on a fucking high note yes we were just we were like oh well this is if you went last time this time this is like yeah this perfect example well do you have any updates uh actually just one in 2024 the british channel bbc4 aired a four-part docu-series that was actually originally a french docu-series from 2022 and the translated title was serious and apocalyptic order it included interviews and interviews and interviews and with journalists who covered the cult as well as a handful of former members it didn't break much new ground but it is out there if you want to watch it all right well great job let's get into good things of the week october is the month when being scared is supposed to be fun terrified in a haunted house sure your actual house absolutely not feel safe in your home with simply safe simply safe is designed to help stop intruders before they can get in your house and you can't get out of your house without getting in your house and you can't get inside i recently got an alert from my camera outside that there is like someone prowling around late at night and of course i got freaked out i opened my camera and it was a big spider dangling in front of the camera which was terrifying in itself but such a relief and i love that i know that it works you know what i mean like it's so much better a spider than an actual person but i'll be prepared all the answers are on your phone you don't have to worry and sit there and wring your hands join the more than six million people who entrust simply safe with their home security right now save 60 off with professional monitoring when you visit simply safe.com slash fave that's simply safe.com slash fav and when you order please write in my favorite murder in the checkout survey it lets them know that we sent you and it really helps support the show simply safe ahead of crime in real time goodbye everyone we have incredible news it's finally sweater season get your fall wardrobe ready with elevated everyday essentials from quince quince specializes in effortless high quality pieces like ultra soft organic cotton and premium mongolian cashmere sweaters they're beautifully tailored built to last and transition seamlessly from morning meetings to dinner everything at quince is priced 50 to 80 percent less than similar brands they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen so you're paying for quality not brand markup i love that quince keeps adding items to their like roster when it's like jewelry they've got hair stuff sheets sheets i just bought a couch from quince no joke yes i love everything i've got from them clothing wise like sheets wise why wouldn't i also get a couch from them so boom they know what they're doing find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at quince download the quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in canada and the uk too and when quince asks where you heard about them let them know it was my favorite murder it's the best way to support the show goodbye goodbye buying from quince is a great way to support the show goodbye furniture is a lot of pressure it has to look good feel good and hold up to everyday life take it from me a bad couch can ruin your life that's why article focuses on stylish high quality pieces designed to last article makes it effortless to create a stylish long-lasting home at an unbeatable price they take great care in curating their collection focusing on pieces that stand the test of time there's no filler every item is chosen for its craftsmanship design and lasting value and with articles 30-day satisfaction guarantee you can shop with quince at quince.com knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture you can easily return it man there was nothing i love more than when i was broke and i could still buy a furniture that i needed at article it wasn't cheap looking it's like i was investing in these pieces that were comparatively inexpensive and i was like finishing rooms i was like getting the kitchen table that was like bringing the whole thing together and it was such an incredible thing because i never got to do that before i love that about article article is offering our listeners a chance to $50 off your first purchase of a hundred dollars or more to claim visit article.com slash murder and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout that's article.com slash murder for $50 off your first purchase of a hundred dollars or more goodbye well we've come to the end my friends oh yeah what's a do you have a fun thing for this week the thing that made me happy yeah no do you well i do actually okay great maybe it'll inspire me okay good but this is a it's a repeat of one i've done before but it's in kind of an update and it's very exciting because my favorite band and now many other people's favorite band sure sure finally came out with an album it's self-titled it says sure sure you can get it on spotify you can get it on itunes and it is so goddamn good it's all that's like single releases that they had before um and then a bunch of new songs i've never heard before that are so beautiful and it's just great i just got it and i love it so well if we're gonna do this this will be the music uh perfect thing vince got us tickets so vince surprised me with tickets to go see the band jawbreaker nice which i'm like super excited to go see them i've never i've never seen them play i've been in love with them forever great old band everyone go listen um but it's also i love that vince does shit like that and it's really sweet and like i would never go see music or anything live vince is like into that shit yeah so like he does it and then i'm like why don't i do this more and i know yeah so it's nice to because you have friends like me that are like um i'm tired well you know i'm not gonna go that night like that night i'm gonna be sick like i am every night but it's sweet that he did it it's so good oh wait so it's future you haven't done it yet yeah i haven't done it yet he just bought tickets to go see jaw breaker that's awesome and you know 20 something year old georgia is like he put it on on the radio today and i got really excited yes that's exciting yeah okay we're back uh we did go see jawbreaker and it was incredible do i brag now that i know the You know that. That's right. He's from the Bay Area. They're from the Bay Area, right? And you know, oh, that's so cool. I feel like Jawbreaker is just the coolest band. Oh, my God. Everybody loves them. They're just so cool. Yeah. They're musicians, musicians. Totally. But then individually, very cool people. Yeah. The show was incredible. They're a great life. Okay. So originally, we entitled this episode Garden Party. But if we were naming it today, there's so many other choices we could have pulled from. Truly. Vintage DNA. Hell yeah. That's a good one. I Can't Trust My Neck was pretty good. My Favorite Staff Infection. This one is good of you when Karen's a little not right. Gail being very polite in saying I was a little not right. A little not right. Still, the shame burns 10 years later. Get rid of it. It's weighing you down. Today's the day I purge this shame. And then The Mouse is Innocent. Yeah. Always. Well, that's this week's episode of Rewind. Let's say goodbye from 2018. all right thanks for listening you guys guys thanks for once again going through that with us we have had it up to here with not going through this with you because we love it so much it's very fun um it's a very fun job and on our on our two-year anniversary thank you so much thank you so much we're so fucking lucky this is the best ever it's crazy lucky wonderful yeah uh thanks everybody thanks steven thanks steven we'll thank you more in six months yeah and when you earn it when you've earned it when you've fucking been through the shit like we have the real shit when you finally fuck the government the way we need you to elvis knows he's been here from the fucking beginning he was he was here before us yeah he'll be here after us he will remain after we have gone yep that's it that's it all right well then stay sexy and don't get murdered bye elvis want cookie yeah yeah calling all amateur detectives and podcast obsessives virgin voyage's second true crime voyage sets sail march 20th 2027 for a five-night escape to grand turk and the beach club at bimini as part of the on-air at sea collection this immersive sailing brings together fan favorite podcasts including disgrace land buried bones and wisecrack for live recordings behind the scenes access exclusive meet and greets and crime themed programming that you won't find anywhere else all aboard our award-winning kid-free ships head over to virginvoyages.com slash true crime to secure your spot goodbye i'm lacey mosley author actor stand-up comedian creator and host of scam goddess podcast the true crime comedy podcast all about robbery fraud and those who practice it each week i bring on an amazing guest oh i scammed them what i could talk to you for an hour you're a generational yapper like me that's why i had to make yapping a job and now you can catch full episodes of my show on youtube start listening to scam goddess on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast