Reviewing new Sports Card Releases and Rising Hobby Stars

- I was a hundred percent wrong about Caleb. - Caleb's past to T.J. Moore was as good as you can throw a pass downfield. - My question is, Drake to me is the clear number one. Do you take Caleb or bow number two if you're redrafting right now? (upbeat music) - Three, two, one, back at a new early time. We're releasing it earlier, so we don't have to come 10 with the other knuckleheads yelling at the YouTube crowd. That was a strategic decision by Daniel and Joe. Thank you, thank you, Joe. - You're welcome. - We're gonna, we have not, I know we're super late to the story. We haven't talked about collectors buying Beckett. In the meantime, since we haven't covered that, PSA also had that debacle with this wilt PSA 10 rookie that's now a PSA 9, and there's a payout. We got that. I did want to actually talk a little bit. - That's the great guarantee that you're referring to right, Mike. - Kind of, but there's a limit on their website, so there's stuff like that I want to mess around. So we've got that to talk about. I did want to share some car that are inside on Cosmic and Top Scrum basketball that released last week. I'm very curious there. I figure we probably had it a little bit of football. So there's your opening segment. - And we have a guest today. - And we have a guest, oh yeah, Doug's here to talk some hockey. So there's your packed show. So after the intro, we just did a quick cut, which you're not gonna see because our producing is unbelievable. And Danny then revealed, he hasn't seen the Denzel Washington movie in 20 years, so. What's the last one you actually saw? - I've seen a bunch of them, but we were just talking about American gangsters, probably my favorite. - You've actually seen, have you seen it recently, or is that like a new movie to Danny? Like in your world, I know 2020. - That's one that if it comes on, I watch it. - That's good. - Yeah, big fan, and as you mentioned, it's based on a true story, which I always find pretty cool. - One of these days, you're gonna discover the movie Philadelphia, great movie. - Oh, great movie. - It'll be new to you, but when you come across it, you're gonna love it. - Great movie. - It'll be a little springsteen. I saw you work in there. - I'm very much terrible. - All right, well, I set the table. I've got a bunch of crap happening on text message, so I will be halfway absent, which some of you will like. I'll let you guys go wherever you wanna go. You wanna go Beckett, you wanna go to the library. What do you want? - Yeah, I wanna talk to Beckett. I know it's the oldest, but of course, we filmed before it, but again, everyone who's crying foul and all this kind of stuff, and we know that there's someone who is a part of the government that's now asking for it to be looked into. - I forgot about it. - You know, right? I get that, but. - Congressman Pat Ryan, yeah. - Yes, P Ryan. Not, yeah. - The P Ryan, that's correct. - But can we honestly talk about this for a second, guys? If you don't understand how the world and how business works, and this is my take, my opinion only, but in the last 18 months, if you see a constant decline, that they're slowly moving themselves deeper and deeper on the list, like, there's reasons that they're doing that. And if you don't think that there were maybe discussions going on, to make sure that it doesn't look like a monopoly, you're foolish. Like, that stuff does happen. And it really does happen. And so they get to a point where they can confidently say that they're nowhere near the top two in the grading space. It is CGC and PSA. And that's when the acquisition takes place. Like, that's what happened. Like, can we, can we say a little bit more? - Yeah, I mean, so give me this. Let me, 'cause again, we've already gone over, like everybody's heard this already. The state was, was collectors to acquire. Back at the gun, it was very mirroring of the SGC announcement, we're here, we're gonna let them keep running on their own. They'll be there in an operation, independent operation, whatever. Again, we heard that with SGC, and SGC has really fallen off the map now, which stinks. So what, as a collector, I know how business works as a collector, though, you can't like this, correct? - Well, can I be honest, I'm looking to buy a card right now, a Holland 2019 Sapphire. Do I buy a BGS nine and a half today, or do I hold out for PSA 10? And I honestly don't know what the market's gonna reflect on those two cards. - 'Cause I'll say this, SGC took a hit in resale, and I have more hold as an SGC than anything else. SGC took a huge hit when the acquisition, about six months after, it wasn't immediate, but we did start to see it, and especially when Pete left. So yeah, do Beckett cards now tank, or does the legacy of Beckett and the subgrades and all that hold true? I actually think the resale value stays. I don't think it goes up or down unless we see, you think it stays, Joseph? - Absolutely, and then the other thing that you guys have to think about, too, is now, in the United States, you have both coasts covered with SGC PSA, well, formally SGC, but PSA in Long Beach or Santa Ana, wherever they are, and then Florida, New Jersey, but now you're centrally located, too, in the Dallas area, with having not only graders there, but you're gonna have authenticators. Think about this guys, it's way easier to assume someone and bring them into your program than to go out and hire and train all brand new graders and authenticators, right? - If you trust the company you're buying. - No, no, I'm serious. - I would hope that someone would want to go into a business relationship or a deal by trusting that business that they're assuming. - So hey, let me just push back then. I trusted SGC, and it's clear SGC was gutted, and their employees moved over to PSA, and it didn't improve the process. I worry that that's the same thing. Like, yeah, you have more resources. So A, you gut them and take their people over, which we saw before. Does it actually help the return time, or B, you let them continue to run out independently, which I'm not sure that's real. I don't know, I just, I'm very much on the fence if Beckett's just gonna die on the vine now. - If PSA, should they change the people's slabs? - No, what? They didn't do with SGC? - Well, if SGC ends up, I mean, what percentage does SGC down to now? - It's way lower, so just to give you some numbers, SGC and Beckett greater almost exactly the same amount of sports cards last month, about 35,000. - Which is nothing. - No, their peak was about 150,000, and that's a month, their peak was about 150,000. So yeah, I guess, here's my other thing, and I said this, and I don't wanna spend too much time, 'cause again, we're super, super late on this. My other pushback is, like, there was a real outrage, including me with SGC, because with SGC, I was like, man, this is things. I know they're saying that everybody was a little skeptical, but I bought in, or you can, the recording was clear on our podcast. Hey, we think they're gonna keep running, that's what they've said. Maybe it'll bolster 'cause SGC has marketing. It survived for a few months. If you look back at the numbers, it took a little while to fall off, but then it fell off. But SGC was thriving at the time, like, year-over-year numbers were great. Mother Beckett has been in a free fall. So I guess my number one thing is this, everybody's outraged by the monopoly. Fine, if you wanna be, I don't mind you being outraged. Nobody, all the people outraged, though. Like, I saw all these YouTubers make videos, and these guys have been using Beckett anyways. So what's really changed, I guess? Like, I know everybody wants to just go after PSA for it, and they're responsive for us. We're not just gonna sit here and go after 'em. We've been pretty upfront about that. But I'm also like, yeah, but who was using 'em? If everybody was just passionate and used Beckett as passionate as they are, they just got bought, they're gonna get, you know, put out the pasture. Maybe they wouldn't be have terrible numbers over the past six months to a year. That's where I come down on it. - And they've had an opportunity. They have had an opportunity. That's what's crazy, and might to go back to your point about SGC. I mean, the reason that they were making such headway is because they were offering different promotions to drive and incentivize getting their slabs out there first to market. - And they've turned out at least improbable. - Yeah. - Correct. And that's why even like, well, last people, why'd you ever support SGC? Because like this week, we'll talk about with Cosmic, you could take Cosmic stuff, grade it, and have it onto eBay three weeks before a PSA holder. PSA still outsells SGC. There was never an argument there, but the timeframe of the newest in the first to market almost always covered the gap. Now, you pull a $20,000 Otani auto. We told you then, it didn't matter that she was a sponsor, graded with PSA. With Becca right now though, I have no use for them, and I haven't graded with Becca in forever. So again, I don't love it. There's less diversity in the marketplace, but I don't like it. - Guys, Becca had an opportunity to make some more, like, to gain some more traction in the space when they were starting to go with TCG and Pokemon and different types of gaming cards. And it's like they all of a sudden just slam the brakes on that and they decided we're not gonna go anymore. Like, they never moved their price. They only increased it. Like, they never made any like, concessions to collectors at all to come and join them and to put those cards in a slab. Like, it was ridiculous. I mean, we did see, I forget what card. I think it might have been a Wembee. There was a big Wembee that came through and it was in a Beckett holder, but like, for the most part, you're not putting it in a Beckett holder, you're not. - And chord of your point, they had management changes. They had ownership changes a couple of times the last couple of years and every one of them failed. I mean, that's mass failure for a company of that size. - Well, in that Beckett umbrella, too, Danny. Underneath it, I don't think that this was a part of it, but like, you have Southern hobby, you have leaf. - It's a great point. - Southern hobby, not a part of the sale at all. - Right. - But they never went after any of those pieces of it. Like, leaf trading was a Beckett company, too, under that umbrella of Beckett stuff. So, you know, I don't know, I'm happy because you're gonna bring on more graders, because to be honest with you, did another submission, and the dates just keep pushing back on my app. Like, it is wild to submit stuff and to see it outside of the hundred business day. Like, it's crazy. It's absolutely crazy. So, when we discussed it, a couple of shows back, if you are going to submit cards to grade, like, you might have missed the boat, if you haven't submitted your baseball card, yet, to have them for spring training or the start of the season. Like, you might have already missed that boat. - I'm paying $40 a submission just to get it back in time. - Yeah. - Hopefully. - Yeah, no, fair point. - Yeah, I mean, it's $40 per 70 business days, Danny. - That's ridiculous. - My last thought on the monopoly is PSA already had 80% or 79% so if you didn't think they were a monopoly before, they added what, 1%, 2% of the market, I just don't think that's the biggest. - I think back it was 4%, whatever it was. - It's not the difference in the monopoly. They had the vast majority before. - I don't disagree. - And this shouldn't shift it, if you thought it was before, it still is and if you didn't, it's not. - Well, now you start to see this is another, everyone's a monopoly, monopoly, yeah, whatever. But you start to see other companies start to pop up. You see it in the Facebook group. Everyone's like, oh, if you see these new degree, what about degree grading? I like the way these slabs look. So it is an opportunity for a smaller company to start to emerge 'cause I think like HGA, didn't they just get bought by someone too? - Yeah. - The CGC would be the next one. - And I will, I guess the thing, I will not grade sports cards. Here's the other thing too. Again, I don't love that the Beckett sale happened 'cause I was hoping at some point Beckett would kind of rise as the number two, like SGC was, in sports cards. CGC numbers are huge overall, they're not in sports. Here's the thing though, that is not gonna happen now. I still, do I love all the moves PSA has made no and as a sponsor, they know that, we've talked off the record about this. However, even at the end of the day, if I have to grade cards today, there's only one option in my head in this PSA. And I don't like to raise prices over the past few months, I don't like the return times or not, it's great. I don't like they've bought up a competition. Still, gone to my head, where do you send your cards? Personally, I still send them there. If somebody asks me, I get questions all the time in the group or hey, I pulled this card or email, I pulled this, what do I do with it? I still have no answer other than PSA right now. So, and the Congressman thing is weird to me, this Patrick Ryan, you know, maybe there's something there, I'm guessing there's not gonna be anything made of it, but maybe there is. I have no clue, I'll tell you one thing, I don't love that it's making mainstream news that hey, there's potential scandal with an industry leader. I think that's a bad look for the industry period. I don't think there's any lasting staying, staying power with that, but we'll see. - Here's the other thing. - By the way, clean up New York, if you bend them in, state's a freaking disaster. You're worried about PSA grading. How about you get, absolute pit of America. - Thank you, you're welcome. - Yes, so here's the other thing too, and correct me if I'm wrong, but PSA does not really take on grading the booklet cards, right? - Yeah, that's almost always been back in. - So now, maybe that's what the ultimate move was, is they saw that they were missing out on grading booklets, and now they have, that nobody's talking about it, nobody's talking about it, but I'll bring it up here first, booklet cards, that's the main motivation. - What a dog to take. - All right, we can be done with that. I do wanna share one more just quick industry news. - We have our guests whenever you're ready. - Yeah, two seconds we'll get dug in here as well. I wanna talk hockey. This happened just the other day as well. This is wild to me. People started coming out. There was a PSA nine Wilk Chamberlain, our 10 Wilk Chamberlain rookie, and then people started checking the cert, and all of a sudden it was a PSA nine. So, you can see on Twitter, PSA came out with this, again, a couple days ago. Recently, a 61-flare Wilk Chamberlain PSA 10 with a cert number was submitted for a grade guarantee review by the owner of the card. Number one, who submits a 10 and is like, "Hey, double check that. "I just wanna make sure that's a 10." That seems-- - That's what Mike Baker's for. - Why would you do anything? I have the 10, that's all I care about, but okay. After review, it was determined the card should be graded at nine, the owner was compensated for the difference. Now, they also mentioned the difference in prices of about $800,000. What's interesting is on their terms and service page, they say they only pay up to $250,000 for the grade guarantees, but there's some fine print in there as well. There's certain exceptions. Clearly, this was an exception. Now, number one, and I don't know when the card was originally graded. That's the one thing I would like to know. When was it graded at 10? 'Cause if it's more than five years ago, there's nobody in the company that's involved now that was involved then. But again, consistency is an issue here. Like, there's no way around that. I'm happy they paid out the $800,000 box. I just have questions about that. - So what I'm hearing from you, Mike, is that there is going to be a card that has better eye appeal and is going to be coming out here soon. - Wait, this line, baby. - No, there's going to be a 10 that emerges all of a sudden that looks better than what that card looked like. Like, you could feel it coming, right? - But this is not the first time something like this has happened. The grades are changed on a semi-frequent basis. - But who sends a 10 back in? You have $1,000. - Well, that's for some guy being a schmock. I mean, maybe it was in the vault. - But even then, you still had to ask from like, I don't want this reviewed? - Well, that's just being an idiot. - I mean, I just have a lot of questions. I don't think we'll ever hear an answer. - And I was surprised that PSA actually changed it because of the payout. If you're real cheap to keep it at 10. - Yeah, but look, it looks like goodwill. It's goodwill, like everyone's talking, oh, PSA took care of the customer. They stand behind their great. Like, that's what it was, and it's great. - They got to viscerate it in the comments. Again, at some point, we just need PSA out of the news. And they know this. Like, at some point, I just want PSA out of the news. Like, let's just get back to, hey, we're grading, we're killing it. Return times are down. Hey, we low with the price. I'm glad they paid the guy out, even though in their terms, it says 250. I'm glad they paid $800. Like, that's a good move. It still stinks overall that a car of that magnitude was not great, exactly, in the first place. - To the other, will 10s go up in value now? I mean, there's one less on the board. That pops gotta be stupid, low. - That's what I was thinking. - Oh, man, I would actually like to know 10. Like, how many are there? - I thought originally that that was the only 10. - No, there's multiple. I'll check, Carla, if I do think there's multiple. All right, so this kind of opening, breaking news 7. Couple of other things. I don't know, Joe wants to talk WNBA for a second. I want to talk about a couple of big releases, and Danny wants to talk about something from the 1950s that's timely, I'm sure. - Yeah, I just wanted to talk about-- - Joe, you want to do-- - God, yeah. - I want to talk about Audi Crooks, who plays for Iowa State women's basketball player. She just scored, again, another 40 point game yesterday. My wife, who is a member of sports cards nonsense, Facebook page, which taken easy everyone. But she was like, hey, I saw someone ask the question about if these cards are worth anything, and she is on an absolute tear. She's the leading scorer in women's college basketball. She does have Bowman U cards. All different colors, autos. They're first, some of them are getting graded now, but she's absolutely killing it. She just, she won the Sci-Hawk game, which was the Iowa State Cyclones versus the Iowa Hawk Eyes. But I know you don't really follow it, but mine-- - I'm in on the Sci-Hawk. - Okay, I know you don't really follow women's basketball. I mean, Danny has made a mention that Hannah Hadalgo, who was, she's an absolute, she's a monster. She plays for no day. - Well, that was Nese, I understand. - Yes. - I'm with it, don't worry about me. So, I had a hundred and 40 on our beach for the Astros in the early 2000s. I know about the dogs, don't worry. - He's got some great inserts to late '90s inserts. I would say that, too, by the way. He does, came across one in the shop, but Audi Crooks, Mike, do you know anything about her? - No, and I had done, I'm content to not, but if you're insistent, go ahead. You have like 30 seconds. - I believe she's like six, four, I mean, she's a post player with crazy good feet, and she's a, she's a thicker person, but she is just very, very nimble, and she's, I believe her shooting, she's at like a 70%, her like her feel goal percentage, which is. - A thick nimble girl in the post when I'm hearing. - Correct, with a 70% shooting percentage. Like, and. - She just bowling people over. - She does not look like anyone else out there. So, it is hard for people to match up against her, and she is, she truly is a force in the most, like, nicest way that I can say, when it comes to the offensive side of the court, like, she just gets the ball down on the block, and she doesn't miss. So, even though we've talked about like sports and prices, I think this is someone that people should be buying because you do have a little bit of a runway to the women's final four, and to just the national champion. - She has like pro potential. - Oh, yeah. - Oh, yeah. - Yeah. - Well, there you go. So, we'll see your stuff start to come up pretty soon with the next moment. Well, she's already, have you said the ball? - She's probably the best thing in college with bets having a bad year, so. - Well, yeah. Okay. I do want to talk. - Here's what it is. - No, nor do I. - Mookie bets? - No, no. - Lauren. - Yes, Richard Hedog is the other one. - Mookie bets, of course. His might look like an L.A. So, kind of a big deal. Hey, I do want to talk about this too. We had a huge release week last week on Wednesday was cosmic baseball. It's under 500 bucks still just to kind of give you an idea though. I think like intention is, it's by far the best baseball product of the year. I've been very lenient to say that 'cause in general, I've been underwhelmed by almost everything in 2025. It's an eight box case as you can see. It's, here's the reason I like it too, just kind of go on a little rate and tie rate about it. It's one of the only products of the year that's a higher end product that is not autograph or liant. I think you get two bottles of case on average. One to two. The other night we ripped a case out of one auto. It was a Dylan Cruz super auto. But it was not another auto. But the planets sell for stupid, stupid money. They came out with some new stuff this year. This constellation, you can see like the judge selling for $2,500. Consolation like one every three to five cases. Even the Ben Rice did dumb money. This is like another big, big, I think supernovas are one every three to five cases as well. I just like it, this is an insert from last year. Great picture there. It's called Stars in the Night Sky. This year they made a horizontal. They actually had a color refractus of it as well. Mike, how long before we start seeing it on eBay live? Like if we could just go to eBay live that they're selling the singles and not breaking the product. Like, I mean, so that's our goal in January. Starting in January, we just inked our deal with eBay. My new goal is like stuff like this especially. I want to rip it and then immediately auction off the singles. Because the market for some of this stuff, like the planets, stupid. We pulled at least one or two of these mercuries this week. Like, and especially with guys like Otani, we're actually selling one at DC sports right now. I pulled the black orbit. I think it's called number one of 10. It's a black refractor, Votani. It's up to like three grand in the end tonight. But like with products like this, guys get crazy. This is one of the few products I PC. I have an autograph set and I have a plan at set of Brady. Like guys would watch for it. Like why I ask about the singles and having an opportunity to do something like an eBay live for it is because this past week you have top-scrown basketball that came out. You have cosmic chrome that came out. Like it's crazy to, like if you weren't even trying to just do personal boxes, it's ridiculous. And you can't even get in. - What's the best basketball? - Like this up 500 bucks, that other stuff? I mean way more. - And 500 bucks in no auto, guarantee. Like no mem guarantee. I know there's some great inserts. I get it a hundred percent. - Sure, but it's a tough one for personal. I agree. I would not, like this is one. And there's some ice cube big time to go personal. This is to me, you go break, you go PYT breaks. - Like I wouldn't go random. - This product had a much higher readership on SI than other products that came out similar times. - Cosmic has an awesome following. And this year too, like the fact you added a couple, like this is the planetarium. It's a super thick, like a 180 point card. That's a new one that's selling really, really well. I like it. I do like that there's some, the way you're not just chasing autos. Like for me, I get bored of like the same autos. Only other quick note on stuff last week. Dude basketball's absolutely insane. The inserts, the fact that there are so many awesome inserts in this product, it is crazy. Like I could care less that the LeBron super got pulled. I could care, honestly, I could care less. - Correct, no one cares. - I could care, dude. - By the way. - Some of the stuff that was coming out of this was just to see, 'cause we did see a couple of guys in the shop, which Mike, like we said, we didn't get any jumbos, but ripping through the mega boxes, ripping through the hobby and not seeing the same stuff over and over again, that was kind of cool. I will tell you that. - My biggest thing with this is the price, was just brutal at the end. And again, tops came out much lower in their website, but the secondary market shops, breakers, like hobby boxes are still five to $600. - Yeah. - It's why, I don't know how you touch it. Breakers, the light boxes, those cases, as you can see here, they were pulled from most places. They shot up to like 2,000 a box. Well, I take it back. They were 10,000 a case, six box case, whatever that comes out to 1750. It's a lot, I will say, the upside is wild. But to me, this is a gambler's product. You're buying this if you want to chase monsters in an Indro K being killed. Like we pulled a Cooper flag red auto. It's probably gonna do, I really don't know, 30,000, 50. I have no clue, but at the same time, you're spending 1,000 to 1,200 on the Mavericks in a break. So to me, Cosmic was like the cool collector set this week, where like, hey, buy the team you want, get the stuff you like. Chrome Bats go, I was a total opposite. But Chrome baseball also had like the nostalgia of Chrome coming back. Number one, and then people had buying to put it away. That was the other thing. And even then though, but just to push back and putting it away at these prices, how do you put it away? Like that's also in the hobby baseball's got a soft spot. What do you mean? Meaning what? I think baseball's more popular in the hobby than other sports. This is not news. Oh, sure, but Chrome is different. I don't think so. I think that's a false statement. Right there. I mean, I don't think baseball is as global as the NBA, to be honest. I know it's global. But I think the breaking wise, like people are breaking up. Is it still? Yeah. Yeah. Like if you look at the top's Chrome is an anomaly for basketball. The majority will not be anywhere near top's Chrome. But like your point, Joe, I will say the one thing they did good about it. And again, it's out of my, I don't like it. I'm not spending that kind of money. Right. I like that they have bird and Brady. I mean, excuse me. Bird, Bill Russell. Magic. You had all the vets in there too. I actually liked that for the nostalgia factor. But let's talk about the price, too, for a second, because that's everyone's, everyone's, you're saying it's brutal. I know. You're going to put your back on prison. I know you got. No, I'm not. I know you got solicited. Second wave. Yeah. For delight and for hobby. I don't think we got any jumbo and Mike. That was a drastically different price than the initial offering. Correct. We took it all because it's still way lower than market. Correct. Yeah. You have to. Sure. We've got this price, too, like everyone, because we get into this argument all the time. The breakers and the LCS and all that kind of stuff. We're paying what we have to pay to have it on the shelves. Number one. And number two, the demand drives it. Now when I'm trying to put out retail skews, like the value boxes and the mega boxes, I'm also up against Dix house of sports, I'm up against Walmart. If I told you the amount of people that came in this last week and they're like, you could not believe they're selling a blaster for $50 at Walmart. Lost their mind. They lost their mind about seeing that stuff and you have to know it's coming. But also we have to remember, we're 10, we're what, five, five years past COVID, six years past COVID, like things will go up in price that naturally does the cost of. But I can also hate that. I can also just push back. I can also say that price sucks because it's super prohibitive to people. It is who also hates things like that. My kids want to get it. My girl hates things like that. They stomped their feet. I get it 100%, but that's why there are outlets for you. And as someone who works at a shop, we tell people, go get the singles on something like this. I get it. 100%. I missed it. I missed it. My kids to a shop and open up packs. I mean, if they pack it out or buy a box, it's a fortune. Yeah. That's what I don't want. Yeah. You've lost a lot of that element of it, which I think sucks. Period. Like it does. By the way, I don't give you on a shop a break or whatever. It's a part sucks. I wish we could offer stuff lower. I'm not. However, it doesn't suck where I'm like, well, I am going to offer it lower. I'm still going to sell it market pricing. So I understand I'm part of the problem. But I do. There is something that was cool about back in the day. Hey, these boxes were 300 bucks. So many more people could buy it. Like that's just both can be true. I understand the man. Here's a tip for your LCS's break open blaster boxes and sell them by the pack that way because you'll have a better margin and make it affordable. Boom. There you go. Anything else before we throw it? I'm going to wrap up the show today with Doug from nonsense on ice. I'm going to finish with a nice interview with him talking, finally talking to some hockey on this. Anything else before we jump to that? Yeah, we could talk about your Drake May having a phenomenal game last night. I know, Danny, it's not what we wanted to hear. It was also on the heels of the Lions with another debacle. But I mean, Drake May continues, continues to perform in prime time after his worst game of the season. He's not throwing P favorite to me. Yes. I wonder what the Vegas odds are on that. I am curious. Last night too, first time he went over 300 yards. I think it's 380 and he was clutch like at the end of the moment. His MVP moment was that little toss to Hunter Henry, where he turned, he just turned away. That was the step. By the way, and his own way and his almost unbelievable moment was the walk off to booty when he threw the 40, 50 yard pass guy tackled the freaking receiver. I thought he caught the ball. Anyways, he didn't. But like that was, that would have been an awesome crowning moment. But yeah, that's a huge one for them. And the next take a huge hit when he lost head to head against Danny's guy and only lost head to head. I mean, look, but in my, who cares? Like you had to lose one at some point. That's fair. I do wonder what happens with these standings now. It's the only thing I'm not positive about is the tiebreaker between them and New England. If they both win out now, I think Denver's still the number one if they both win out. Yeah, like as of right now, just to share it real quick and real quick, what are the top three teams in the AFC? In terms of going forward or who I think going forward, New England. Denver. I mean, I still I still think Buffalo's right there. Buffalo is still as good as anybody in the league when Josh Allen puts his cape on. But again, like yesterday, very mediocre performance in a game they could have lost. Yeah. Like to the Browns. That's how Buffalo's been. They are the greatest team in the world. And then they're a very average team. But to me, like if you go just off your top seven, if the road goes through Denver, that's still a crazy tough place to play. As of right now, the the paths would host the Texans. That's a tough game. I would love to see the Texans catch the Jags. I'd much rather have the Jags come to New England than Houston. Also, I was a hundred percent wrong about Caleb. By Caleb Williams, too. On the way, those two throws the throw the fade away throw to tie the game in regulation. And then that's throw to DJ Moore. We were watching that live during the stream. And he almost led them back in the first meeting with the Packers a couple weeks ago. Yeah. You know what's crazy? If you go and if you go right now, if you have to redraft the 2024 class, which is going to go down as a great class of quarterbacks, like Jaden last year was unbelievable. Like right now, there's a possibility you take Jaden for because there's so many concerns not for anything. He's done it on the field. But the health is a major issue with me. Yeah. Caleb's class to DJ Moore was as good as you can throw a pass down field. And the one in regulation was just as great like the fade away. My question is, Drake to me is the clear number one. I think Caleb has a higher ceiling. I think bow has a higher floor. Are we talking about hobby or football? I think it's the same answer. I think Caleb has a higher ceiling than both because Caleb has that crazy at factor that I haven't seen as much from bow. Bow has a consistently very good factor. But also, Mike, this bow look different on the bears with those weapons. That's where it looks a little different for me, but regardless, they're phenomenal. And you can see a very noticeable difference when you watch Drake May in his pocket presence because again, I said they were about to get rolled when they lost that offensive line. And they lost the guy last night, by the way, they're back up right tackle, even. Mike, the way he moves in the pocket and is able to release that ball down the field in the vision. Because I mean, Stefan Diggs, Stefan, he caught that great past, which they pulled him out for some reason, even though he got up and he was fine. But dude, he's making guys look phenomenal and when where he's put in the ball, it's just like Caleb. Caleb rolling to his left and throwing these darts like, yep, dude, I'd be really excited if I'm a bears fan and even if I'm a Caleb collector, his stuff should be shooting through the roof. The thing that's going to hurt these guys going in the future and you may say no, is the unlicensed stuff. I mean, it may, and it'll keep the pricing down. I honestly don't hate it, though, because like I just complained about top score on basketball pricing people out. The fact that these are unlicensed, maybe it makes it a rookie stuff attainable. And like, yeah, if you look at the, like, I don't have it up the screen up right now, but the bears are the number two seed right now. And honestly, the NFC is pretty wide open. Like, I don't think Seattle's a lock to win it. I mean, the Rams just got beat, but the Rams are there. I actually think it's kind of a fun year. Like, I actually think it's going to be a whole year to see. So if you bought Trevor, wait, if you bought Trevor six weeks ago, you made money. I just want to say that. Actually, you haven't. I looked at his pricing Trevor. Six weeks over six weeks. I will show you Trevor has still barely moved. I think you buy Trevor today and maybe make money. David, it's wild. How his market has hardly moved at all. It's unbelievable. Is that Joe's Florida theory? No, well, because he came up with the most. That's a stand. How dare you? Joe's theories are ridiculous. Don't start that crap. Yeah, like, it is wild though that his pricing is still barely moved. I don't think people believe in Jacksonville. I mean, he's put up 10 touchdowns and two games. I understand. I still don't think they're going to play off game. So, anyways, do ball. All right. Let's wrap it up. We'll go to Doug and then we'll wrap this thing up. Doug, what's going on? What's going on, guys? You hear me? We got you Doug. How are you doing, man? Cool. Doing great. How are you guys doing? Good. Good. Lucky, bar none, best headletists out there too for color commentary. No, bro. So glad he's here. The milk fest is on. Good for you, Joe. You can tell we're all wearing hats because we don't have the hair, so. Yeah. I'm on a hair diet. That's a terrible thing. Doug, the voice of the Florida panthers. What a lazy intro by you, too. I stay out of the way for 30 seconds and that's the crap I get. A headletist and Danny saying, yes, you pick up your slag people. Get the voice of hockey join the show and I get you two slubs saying nothing about it. Doug, I apologize for them. Go ahead with your hockey questions since you're such a big fan, too. No apologies. I'm just excited to be here. I'm just excited to be on the program today. See? What a guy. Number one, Bobby Oars, the greatest hockey player of all time. But I would argue Wayne Gretzky is the greatest team athlete of all time. Do you consent to that take or what you can do? Can you sign on? I think Gretzky is the number one. Gretzky is the number one. I will tell you this, though, and it's been something I've talked about a lot is that I think for a long time, we were in this kind of this train of thought where it was in no particular order. A lot of times based on preference, you had Gretzky, Bobby, or Gordy Howe and Marilyn Mew kind of as the top four of all time. I don't think anybody would have would have disagreed with you on that. I don't think anybody's still will, but I think I think Sidney Crosby has entrenched himself as number five all time. I think he jumped Mark Messier and I think he is number five all time. I don't follow hockey nearly as much as I used to. I used to be a diehard Bruins guy. Is he better than a Vetchkin overall? Is that kind of widely accepted? Vetchkin's, well, the numbers say it to the best goal scorer or he or Gretzky, the best goal scorer of all time, but in terms of all around game and the fact that Sidney Crosby has had 20 straight, probably going to do it again, point per game seasons. It's borderline unfathomable that he's been able to do that. So you have that production combined with the all-around game, the three Stanley Cups. He's been a great ambassador for the sport, like I said. I think we've gotten to a point where I feel comfortable saying that he is the fifth best player of all time. He's in that spot, and like I said, he's still playing at an elite level. So, fortunate place for us to be as viewers of the sport, as fans of the sport, to be able to see this guy still doing what he's doing. Well, Bobby or 100 points to the defenseman, pretty good. So anyways, that's fine. Yeah, that's also Sidney Crosby had some setbacks to with injuries. He was on the verge of like, I mean, those concussions were pushing him to the break of making a business decision, right? So for him to be able to bounce back and do all this stuff at a high level is absolutely insane, Doug. So like, I'm 100% on board with you. The next most important question that we have to hear are ask, and this is to a panthers, enthusiast and play by play guy, is when is the opportunity for the Maple Leafs to hoist the cup? When is that going to come ever? Well, that's an interesting one, because I think they are underachieving based on where a lot of folks would have put them. We have a new nonsense and I's coming out tomorrow and during that episode, I did save, and though they are where they are right now, I just have a hard time believing that that team won't have a seat at the table when the playoffs come around. They're going to have to put together a heck of a second half to be able to make that happen, but I just think they have the horses to do it. We'll wait and see how things go. That being said, they haven't won the Stanley Cup since 1967. The last time the Maple Leafs won the Stanley Cup, there were still six teams in the National Hockey League, so it has been a long time for Toronto. I don't know that it'll happen this year, but hey, what's crazy about it, and I think why I tend to look at that team the way that I do and have maybe a little bit more faith than a lot of people do, and then putting together a second half and earning a playoff spot, is that during the playoffs last year, they pushed the panthers to seven games. They pushed the panthers as far as anybody did during that second straight Stanley Cup run. And to be honest, there were a couple instances in that series where it started to look grim for the panthers. The Leafs had them down to, oh, at one point in time. The Panthers had to win game three and over time to kind of change the course of the series. So in seeing that, I feel like I have some respect for the Maple Leafs because I've seen them push the panthers to the brink going back to last year, Austin Matthews and Company. They have a great collection, a talent there, but like I said, it's going to take a lot for them to put it together and make the playoffs. I still feel like they're going to get there, though. So let's toss this to the card market then Doug. We're kind of about a third of the way into the season, right? Yeah, close a little more than a third, a little more than a third. The schedule is so condensed this year, we're going to hit the halfway point in a crazy short period of time because obviously nobody's really playing in February. We've got the Olympic break in February. So the schedule is incredibly condensed. So it's flying by right now. Yeah, so it gets weird. Look again, I don't follow hockey a ton, but I know a few years ago and we had the last Winter Olympics, the spike of guys who stopped play and went over and played for their country and like that, I didn't think that had any effect, but it was almost like a world cup effect. You went over and killed it on that scene, your carbs started going nuts. So I am curious, like for the audience, who are some guys you say, hey, they're going to go play for their national team. You think they'll perform well and there's a buying opportunity for people. Anybody jump off the page? So I think there are a lot of guys like this and if we're going to look at how you could maybe approach buying singles this time of the year. For example, if you look at the rosters, if you want to look and do some homework and maybe make some selections, who do I think is going to make a deep run? The USA and Canada are going to go into this thing as two of the top dogs, no doubt about it. And I think the dream scenario for a lot of folks here in North America would be to see those two teams go ahead to head for a gold medal. That being said, the NHL players haven't been over the Olympics since 2014. So it's been a long time coming for this and that's why I think that just in general, you're going to have a lot of eyeballs maybe on this tournament, international competition does that. You're going to have a lot of eyeballs on this tournament that maybe aren't on the National Hockey League day to day and there's no doubt in my mind that is going to translate to the to the card world because people are going to see some of these guys potentially have, you know, breakout performances, clutch performances in the Olympics and take note and especially if it's one of the North American guys, if it's somebody from Team USA or Canada and they go on to win a gold medal, I think that could absolutely positively affect a player's card market. I think if you're looking at Team USA, I know there's some bias for me when I talk about this but the Kachucks are going to be front and center. You'd think Matthew's working his way back from an injury so still a little bit of weight and see there but assuming there are no setbacks and everything's good, you figure he's going to be right front and center along with his brother Brady and both incredibly charismatic guys and two guys that everything they do in the sport is interesting. Even when they make a routine play, when Matthew and Brady do it, it just is interesting. It jumps off the television screen. I think people gravitate toward those guys. That's why it's a couple of the first names that I would mention. Connor Hellebach, assuming he's the number one gold tender, he's kind of hit that point in his career. He's won multiple Vesna trophies. He's the gold tender for the Winnipeg Jets. He's a Michigan native. He's really accomplished everything that you possibly can't accept when a Stanley Cup. If he's able to backstop Team USA to a gold medal, I think that would be a huge feather in his cap if you will. I think if you're looking at it from the perspective of the Americans, those are a few players to watch. Obviously Austin Matthews. He's one of the most gifted offensive American-born players that there's ever been. If he puts together a big tournament, that's another name to watch. You look at the other side as far as Team Canada goes. This is going to be our first time getting to see Conor McDavid and Sydney Crosby as teammates. The last time that the NHL players went to the Olympics, Conor McDavid wasn't the National Hockey League yet. You're going to get to see those two guys as teams. He was like 11 years old. He would have been a year shy of his draft year at that point in time. Dang. Okay. Yes. By the way, speaking of ignorance for real quick, just interrupt you. Am I the only one here that didn't know NHL guys hadn't played since 2014? I just assumed they played every year at the Olympics. I had no clue. I believe that was the last one. Was that when Oscee in the shoe match? Yeah. TJ, you came to the Predator. He came to the Predators for a little bit. I remember that. Okay. I missed the last two Olympics after that. That was a huge, huge television event to watch. Yeah. I mean, Doug, we're talking about big cards, big names, and if you're not, if you haven't already bought, you're kind of late to the party, but the fact that before the rosters are finalized, but Maclin, Celebrini, on the verge of any's probably going to make the roster. For him to be able to play and to be one of those guys that you can plug on almost any line and he impacts everyone around him. That's insane, right? And you can go out there and you can look at his cards now. Like I mentioned, if you're trying to buy Celebrini, you're late to the party. We just sold in shop. One of his cards from the cup, it was a triple a relic card and he was one of three players on the card and it sold for a hundred and fifty bucks, like for I go about it. Yeah. Well, big guy. He's a he's a special player. There's no question about it to do what he's doing at 19 is it kind of his mind boggling, but I saw him play the first time I saw him play last year. He was an 18 year old rookie and what caught my attention was not necessarily what he was doing with the puck on a stick, but the little heads up plays the high hockey IQ type of plays that he made away from the pocket just shows you what a student of the game this guy is and the work ethic that he has, he's going to be a special player for a long time to come. I see where you'd say maybe if maybe you're late to the party, if you haven't picked up any Maclin, Celebrini cards yet. But as far as I'm concerned, I'm that confident in what his future is like. I really think there are still bargains to be had. If you're going to sit on the card for ten years, I just think that he's he is that he's in that tier of being a special player with that kind of promise to do what he's done as a 19 year old is his borderline unbelievable. So he's he's up in the top five in NHL scoring has been all season long on a team that is overachieving, I'd say they're kind of on that playoff fringe right now. And if they were to get there, they certainly would be in the playoffs ahead of schedule. If they miss the playoffs, I'm not sure anybody was thinking they would even be in the conversation this year. And they're doing it on his on his back there. A lot of good players coming for the San Jose sharks. They've been picking pretty high up in the draft for a few years. So they and they've made some moved off some veteran guys made some trades accumulated some assets. They do have some some good players coming, but Maclin, Celebrini, he's that number one center that every Stanley Cup winning team, you need to have a guy like that. You look back the last hand, last handful of years, Colorado has Nathan McKinnon, the Panthers have had Alexander Barkov, the lightning have had Braden Point, Jack Eichel and Vegas. Every team that's won the Stanley Cup, they're all different players. But every teams had that top line workhorse center that can chew up big minutes that can play against the other teams best players that can play in every situation that can go like I said, go against the other teams best guys, but still produce San Jose has one of those guys that they're going to be able to build around. Every team wants one, there aren't enough of them to go around for everybody, they've got one of those guys. I'm confident in that. So yeah, if you have Celebrini cards, like I said, I know they're selling for big money right now, but if you don't feel like selling it, I can't disagree with you on that decision either. I think the future's that right for him. So that's kind of like the opposite of with Bedard though, right? Because that was the other big name again, Hockey only hits my radar when it's huge. Connor Bedard seems like the opposite, came in with all the hype in the world. And again, just from like a total outside looking in, it's like, man, this guy, it's almost like a Zion type. Like he just has, he came with all the hype, I'm sure he's better, he's been more healthy. But is there any hope for guys with his stuff left? He's, so I wouldn't, I wouldn't move any of my Connor Bedard stuff. Now, the thing with Connor Bedard came in with the black hawks, the black hawks were down at the bottom of the standings. It was easy to overlook Connor Bedard. And I think he kind of got unfairly overlooked in his first couple of seasons. He still had over 150 points over his first two years as a teenager on a team that was down at the bottom. And that would be why you didn't hear too much about him. His, you know, he was probably maybe people expected more like I said, there's not much more that a teenager was going to be able to do in that situation. He had a little bit of injuries. He's actually out right now, but I'm not sure it's going to be anything incredibly long term. He's out the rest of this month. Sounds like he'll be reevaluated, but I don't think it would be anything long term. And like I said, certainly nothing that would make me panic sell my Connor Bedard cards. I'm a huge believer in him too. I think the, the difference with Connor Bedard and Macklin Celebrini, Connor Bedard might actually have a little bit more flash in terms of the way that he can produce. I think he might have a little bit more of that bring you out of your seat type of element to his game, but both of these guys, like I said, you can't go wrong right now. I just crunch the numbers, but the, the Bedard young guns are selling a little bit less than the Celebrini ones are now, which, which is kind of understandable, I think for a few different factors, but the Bedards have actually gone down a little bit since this injury happened about a week or so ago. Like I said, I wouldn't panic sell my Connor Bedard cards at this point. And I do think the pop is lower on the Celebrini young guns, the PSA tends compared to the Bedards, but I've got to think part of that is a lot of that 24/25 stuff might still be getting ripped. A lot of it is probably in transit to PSA or sitting at PSA right now because Celebrini's had such a good start to the season. I would imagine those pop numbers start to even out a little bit more as time goes on. Doug, I want to look at the other end of the career. If a guy's gone to the Hall of Fame, you talked about Crosby, and when, you know, you buy cards, you're looking for a runway moving forward. So whether it's the young guys we've talked about or guys who are going to get into the hall, who should we be looking at that might be undervalued, but you think it's going to be a Hall of Fame? So I think the number, the first one that comes to mind, because I did a little bit of a comparison on the, on my show, maybe in the, at some point in the last month, last few weeks, but I crunched the numbers between a Celebrini PSA 10 young gun rookie and a Nathan McKinnon BGS 95, young gun rookie from back in 2013. And what I said then was it all just depends on what kind of buyer you are. If you're somebody who wants to play the long game, wants to speculate, you want to get the next best thing, I get where you might go for the Celebrini, even though it probably costs at this point. I got to think maybe not quite double what the McKinnon did. And the reason I was using the BGS 95 as the comparison on the McKinnon, it was 2013. I think back then there were just, there were more BGS 95s back then. A lot of people were sending that card to Beckett back in that era. But Nathan McKinnon could walk away from the NHL tomorrow and he would have a plaque in Toronto as soon as they required wait time for the Hall of Fame elapsed. He is as explosive an offensive player as there is in the National Hockey League. He's got a Stanley Cup on the mantle. He's got a lot of prime years left. He's going to be on Team Canada. So he's going to have some opportunities to continue to get a lot of eyeballs his way. We're in a really good spot, like I said with the National Hockey League. We've mentioned Bidard and Celebrini and some of these young guys and hey, credit, credit to scouting, credit to player development, credit to upper deck because the rookie card classes that we've seen these last few years have actually been loaded between what this year looks like. It's going to be 24/25, the 23/24 class before that. But the league's in a great spot because you have players like McKinnon, McDavid, Leon Drys Sidle, guys like that who are in their prime but are future Hall of Famers. Then we have a lot of what I would almost call legacy players who are guys that have that Hall of Fame status already set. That legacy is built but they're still producing at an all world level and Crosby and Ovechkin are obviously right in that conversation but you take it a step further and a guy I get to watch every single night. Brad Martian. I know if you're not a Panthers fan or a Bruin fan, he's probably got in here again. There you go. Yeah. You know Brad. So dude, such a punk by the way, if he's not on your team, you hate his, as soon as he left, I hate his guts. Well, what I would say to the agitator, it's great. What I was going to say is I think if you're a fan of the 30 teams that aren't the Panthers or the Bruins, you probably, he's probably gotten under your skin at some point in time just because of how he plays. If you're a fan of the Panthers or the Bruins, there's a good chance you absolutely loved the guy because he embodies everything that you'd want and how you should go out and go about your business every day. I also think that over these last few years, because he's gotten into this stage of his career, it almost feels like he's, he's almost endeared himself even more to fans universally in the media because he's one of those guys. You can't help but watch how he plays and just see that it sounds cliche, but it really is the 110%. He's empty in the tank every time he's out there. He has such a unique skill set. And then after the game, when he gets on the mic, when he gets at the podium, you're going to get something interesting, you're going to get something thought out. And then away from the rank, he is, like I said, if you're not a Panthers or a Bruins fan, maybe you have a hard time processing this. But away from the rank, he is one of the most down to earth, just regular dudes you'd want to meet. That's why I think you're going to see maybe a little bit of Brad Martian love in the hobby as time goes on here too, because you can't help but now look at the accomplishments. He's solidified himself here as, you know, in all time or in a Sure Fire Hall of Famer. One of the most punchable faces in the world, too, by the way. If you don't like his team, oh man, that little dude. To also kind of link to what Brad's done going from the Bruins to Florida, which has been great with Bark going down early on in the season, right? I'm in Phoenix. Now, we've lost our hockey team. We had a great hockey market in my local LCS, where we're direct with upper deck. And it's slowly started to die, right? Because people aren't in there to see their team. How does the change when they go from having longevity with the Bruins down to now a panther? And because I know I'm seeing it like Logan Cooley stuff, right? I could almost not give his stuff away in his rookie year as a coyote. And now he's a part of the mammoths, right? And before he got injured, he was on fire. Like his stuff, probably, I mean, I bet it was close to almost 7 to 10 X, his rookie stuff. For $35, you could get cup rookie autos of Logan Cooley in the in the coyotes uniform. And then he's killing it and his market is just going up even more and I know there's a rabid fan base in Utah and they want to have like guys that they can love and getting their first young guns with guys in their uniform is big. Do you foresee Marchand's first panthers card kind of going through the roof? Is first panthers autos starting to go through the roof? I think there is going to be some buzz for that because I know just as somebody, a way that I sample a lot of the new hockey products is I grab the panthers in a break. That's the way I try a lot of the new stuff is I'll grab the panthers in a break. I'll get some cool stuff and then I'll get a chance to see the other cards kind of filter through and everything like that. I know. I would love to get one. I'd love to see one of those. I'd love to get some cool Brad Martian panthers stuff. I think there's absolutely going to be some buzz for that and I think, you know, tying it back. I know an example that comes to mind that'll resonate with all of you, especially Mike, but there was some buzz with Brady first year buck stuff because he won the Superbowls first year with the box. There was something to that. Brad Martian goes to the panthers at the deadline last year and then winds up playing at a consmouth level, part of a Stanley Cup champion was hugely instrumental in it, then winds up signing an extension to stay with the panthers. It wasn't as if he just went somewhere. I'm trying to think about, you know, even though any Gretzky card is a great card, and there aren't many Gretzky St. Louis Blues cards out there, but a lot of people probably have to be reminded that Gretzky played for the St. Louis Blues at one point in time. There are a lot of examples like that of guys who went someplace as a short term rental I think in 15 years we're going to look at Wonsoto Padres cards and have to remember how did that happen? When did that happen? But with a situation like Brad with the panthers, it's not going to be like that. I think this is going to be viewed as a productive next chapter in his career. My boss thing guys do it right, Ray Bork leaves, winds up with the avalanche, Brady leaves dominates, and then Martian, hey I do want to actually touch on one other thing Doug before we jump. The numbers in hockey are unbelievably hobby numbers small compared to the other sports. And the best example of this is Gretzky. If you put in on card ladder, just Gretzky patch autos, highest card sold ever, a one-of-one game you shield sells for $145,000, a Jordan shield selling for $10,000,000, a Brady shield selling for $1,000,000, whatever the other sport is, and a damn judge logo man is going to sell for more than this. Just saw the schemes debut patch sell for a million, I've almost started to get to the point where like, apples to apples Wayne Gretzky was as good as his sport, if not better, then I mean Brady is my favorite athlete, I think Brady is the greatest football player ever. I would argue that Gretzky's accomplishments in his sport are better. Like there's no number two in hockey, Gretzky just seems to be far and away the best. I look at this stuff and again we're talking $20,000, $30,000 cards, but even if you scroll down to like some of this lesser stuff, like he has some unbelievable patch autos that have sold in the last year, you're the dual out of ultimate collection, upper deck ultimate collection is as great a product back in the day, especially as I've ever seen. There's a dual game use patch auto of him and Mario Lemieux that sells for $7,500. Is there any point in recent time where you think to yourself, hey, at some point like guys are going to start really migrating and moving over to hockey where we start to see them close the gap a little bit? I think you absolutely could and I think if you're looking at it on the, just from the perspective of the Gretzky stuff you're pointing to, hey, I'd be lying, I'm probably one of a lot of people. I have a Gretzky safe search on my eBay log in. There's stuff that I check every single day, there's stuff I'm always looking at and I have seen a bit of an uptick as far as that stuff's concerned. There definitely has been, there's been a segment of the hobby that's taken note that his stuff was and probably still is, you know, severely undervalued in some cases. But I think part of it too and this is kind of going off on a little bit of a sidebar. But, you know, with hockey, I think it affords you some advantages too. I think unlike the other sports in hockey, you have a bit more runway and a bit more opportunity to do your homework, do your research, do your own scouting, if you will, and then kind of look and see which players do I want to get, which players, whose cards do I want to buy? In basketball and football, especially because the players are playing collegiately state side, so much publicity is, you know, so much, there's so much hype about the draft. And as we know in the hobby, hype out sales results and that's why you have so many of these guys that are selling, you know, before they even play a game, they're outselling bonafide superstars. And in a lot of cases, their stuff is selling for more before they've even played a game than it probably will ever, for 90% again, or again, itself or before they even play a game, then it'll ever sell for. In hockey, unless it is, obviously you had hype with a bedard or a celebrity because they were number one picks and they came in with kind of that generational tab thrown at them. I think in hockey, you do have a little bit more time and runway to get in on the ground floor on some players that maybe you don't have in the other sports, especially if it's a guy who's coming from overseas or something like that where a lot of folks out there just haven't been familiarized with the players. So I think there are some opportunities. Leo Carlson, a place for the Anaheim Ducks. He was the number two pick the year that bedard went number one. And he was in any normal year, the top three picks from that draft could have been number one picks. It was that loaded of a draft. Leo Carlson went number two. There were a lot of people who came over to hockey that year just to chase bedard. And I would tell you, you might want to go back in all that stuff you're ripped. And see if you have any Leo Carlson stuff. Because while it hasn't hit bedard levels, Leo Carlson is on an Anaheim Ducks team that is making big strides. They look like they might be ahead of schedule in their development, could be a playoff team this year. Leo Carlson has been one of the top point scores in the NHL this season. And his cards are selling at a fraction of what Conor Bedard cards are. Now, I say at a fraction, those Leo Carlson cards, a PSA 10 young gun, for example, has at least doubled maybe a little bit more than that since the start of the season. But you're still looking at a card that's probably selling for a third of what a Conor Bedard PSA 10 young gun sells for. And like I said, this was a guy coming in who would have been a number one pick in a lot of drafts. He just happened to come out the same year bedard did. So we happen to go number two to Anaheim, but they're exciting. They're turning the corner. It's just an example of a guy that, like I said, I think you have a little bit more runway to get in on some of these guys. He's a prime example of it that maybe in another sport you might not have that ability. And the last thing I would say, it's a Kudos to Upper Deck because Upper Deck has made a lot of products really accessible and has allowed them to be at prices that are pretty manageable in comparison to similar things in other sports. I mean, Upper Deck ice and credentials, you can get on-card autographs out of those products and you're looking at maybe a 120, 140 bucks for a hobby box and you're getting an on-card auto and great. And you're not touching that in baseball, basketball, football, that's just, yeah. So here's Leo. Yeah, like, like the last, it looks like his average is like a hundred bucks under a hundred bucks. I mean, that's pretty good. Like, it definitely makes it a little easier entry point for guys coming to the hoggy. But Doug, real quick, how much does it hurt? Like, Hall of Famers or even big name players. If it seems like in hockey, if you're not one of the players on an original six or a blue blood team, it's hard to, I mean, they just don't have the following. Even though the facts are, you have Tampa Bay, you have Florida, who have won countless Stanley Cups and have brought so much hype to the state of Florida when it comes to hockey. And it just seems like their guys are not selling like Red Wing's players. Joe, do you think that's more than other sports before Doug Ange is like, I'm curious because like in baseball, we've overcome that like wander when he was the guy, he was for Tampa, you know? So like, we don't see it as much other. I mean, still Yankees players and we're not always native though. No, but Yankees and Dodgers are going to outsell, you know, you could have a mid level rookie on a Yankees or Dodgers roster that's going to outsell a Guardian's player who's good. You're going to have Cowboys outsell 49ers outsell the outsell the Lions. Like it happens, like, but in hockey, it's it's glaringly obvious. Like if I mean, Demidoff, he's he's solid, right? Really? He's a Canadian. And for the Canadians to have a top young gun, I mean, it wouldn't matter if he was an average player. Yeah, Mike. He's going to sell through the roof. Like, because the Canadians, that whole fan base is just starving for the next superstar, right? Like, that's, I mean, they had Kolkhoff feel like, um, do you think he's more an issue than hockey, though? Like, you think the small marketing, because like I said, there's a little bit of a bump with the Yankees or a Dodger, but like, I would also, and even in the NFL, but I would also push back like Trevor Lawrence, most high prospect ever went to Jacksonville, Jill Barrow, went to the bangles. Like, we have overcome that a lot of other sports, but maybe not yet in hockey as much. And I don't think that the hockey international market is as big with cards as the baseball international market. No, nothing is as close to, I mean, when you say international, you mean, like North America. Eastern European countries, really, I mean, you're not talking like the Asian market outside of Russia. Like, the Russians buying hockey cards, is that what, is that, is his boot over there just loading up? I don't know if eBay ships to Russia, to be honest, maybe. Boycott. That's fine. Okay. I, a handful of different directions to go off what you just said, answering a few of those. Ivan Demadoff, who you met, she's the number one young gun chase in Series 1, Upper Deck. Legitimate superstar potential with him, the, the ceiling is that high. And, and again, part of what makes Upper Deck flagship, for example, such a great buy. You can get a hobby box for like 120 bucks. You're getting six young guns in every box. If you get the Demadoff, you're, you're paying for your box. It's, it's that, you know, the, the cost of entry is really user friendly and, and really manageable. What you mentioned about the different markets, I, I do think you have that in every sport. I do think for example, the Canadians haven't won a cup since 93, as I mentioned already. The Leafs haven't won once in 67. And I do think if, if one of those two teams are both, we're able to get over the hump and win a Stanley Cup. I think the players that were responsible for that would kind of go into a different stratosphere in terms of their mystique and their stardom. If, if Montreal is to win a Stanley Cup at some point, the next three, five, three to five years, whenever, really, whenever. And Nick Suzuki is wearing the sea on his jersey, and he's the one to go out and get the cup from the commissioner and he hoist. It will put him onto a different level as far as one of the most rabid fan bases in the NHL's concern Montreal, and that'll put him into a, a place in hockey history, no doubt about that. You mentioned things down here. I do think it's, in some ways, it's, there is a lot of regionalization, like, you know, there's been a team from Florida and the Cup final six straight seasons. You know, Tampa Bay, one, two in a row, and then lost one, then the Panthers lost in a final and won two straight. So you've seen the buzz grow down here, for example, just to point to that. Like I said, I do think maybe there's a lot of the regional fan bases, maybe that's part of it. But I think the other element of that, I'm trying to think of how to phrase this, but I do think that there's, like I said, it's the different regions, obviously, flock to it in different ways. I do think, though, this is what I was trying to, what I was trying to put into words. I think hockey is more collector driven than maybe some of the other sports I think, and I think that goes along with what I was going to say about, like, the Leo Carlson cards, for example, and why maybe you have a little bit more time to buy into certain players. I think hockey is more collector driven, whereas clearly basketball and football, for example, the hype is the hype is what drives it. And naturally, when something's collector driven, you're going to have your different segments of collectors that flock to different things, whether they collect Hall of Famers, whether they collect vintage, whether they just collect their team or a certain player that they follow. So I think that's going to be the first driving force. And then as you have players that kind of transcend that, then I think you have a lot of people who say, I might be collecting, you know, I might be a huge Chicago Blackhawks collector, but hey, the Panthers who've won a couple of cups in a row, you know, Team USA has a shot in the Olympics. Maybe I should go out of math. You could chuck card to my collection or something like that. I think you might have a little bit more of that. I think a lot of people start from the perspective of a collector and cast their net out that way. Then maybe in football or basketball where it's, hey, this might be the next guy. Let's just go get his stuff. Yeah, just to flip it. Danny, did you want to ask a question about Gordon Bombay if you think he's a true Hall Famer? Uh, no, I got a goal every three seconds. If you pay attention to those ridiculous stats, they lie about me. Did a heck of a coping job with District five, yeah, heck of a job managing that vehicle as a DUI driver too. Oh, Gordon was a fan of the sauce. It's okay. Did it start? No judgment. On that note, Doug, the voice of hockey, thank you. Yeah, we got to have you back, Doug, before the Olympics, too. I do want to, like, as it ramps up then, because I think it's going to be crazy. Like the fact that people are already talking about is big. So I do think, like, hey, in the next month or two, let's have you back to, like, really hone in on, hey, these are the guys will say announced rosters and all that. Where's like to buy cell opportunities for people who maybe aren't in the market yet? rosters get announced on New Year's Eve. So that's coming. And then next week. Yeah. And then there is a little bit of a, there is a little bit of a leeway period there too, in the event that somebody were to get injured and maybe have to be replaced or something from what I understand, they can make a change, you know, as far as that's concerned. So, yeah, that's coming soon. And then you could, like I said, I think there will be a lot of opportunities in the month of January for people to kind of peg certain guys, certain teams, and say, hey, I think this team could make a run. I think this guy has a shot to do something in the front and center for it. So, yeah, I think that's obviously going to be exciting. And then the games will get going in February. Like I want to mention too, 25, 26 Upper Deck, one of the big, you were talking about Bobby Or right off the top, my boy, one of the main young guns, I should say there are only two players who have ever OHL, Major Junior, OHL/OHA, only two defensemen who have ever scored 30 goals in back-to-back seasons in the OHL, Robert Gordon Orr and Zane, and Zane Perrek, who has a young gun in Series 1 this year. You can get him at a bar. Bobby. I think he's a bargain right now. Maybe that's your next hockey PC. Hey, last hockey note for you, Johnny Busek was at my wedding, so. The Chief, right? That's what they. The Chief? Oh yeah, his wife, his wife Ann, I think she's past now, but Ann and my mother were very good friends. Johnny Busek paid for the open bar at my wedding. So, suck on that, Joe. Okay, we get it. You're rich. Doug, one more nonsense piece. Oh, here we go. You've got to have the last piece. I have to. So Doug's got one of the smoothest and most beautiful voices to listen to, especially if you're watching sports. I get it. Doug, can you just give us a tip other than rest. How do you keep your voice at peak level? So interestingly enough, I think it is just like reps, like anything. And I will say, like the beginning of the season, like the first week or two, I maybe feel a little bit of strain, but as time goes on, you just kind of get that endurance and you get into your groove and off you go. And at this point, I've. This is my 18th season pro hockey, my 11th with the Panthers, and I've never called in sick. So, now I kind of, the pressures, I just have to gut it out no matter what might come my way. When I was working in the minor leagues, it would have been the '08, '09 season. In the minors, you play three games and three nights a lot. That's like a routine thing in the EHL and the ECHL. So I was doing. I was with the Idaho Steelheads and the ECHL. And like, we got in this road trip and my throat just felt horrible, but like I, missing the game was never an option. So we did the three, I did the three games, felt awful. We got back to Idaho. I went right to one of those, you know, 24 hour urgent care things just because like I needed to get prescribed something. And it was determined that I had mono and strep throat at the same time. The three games and three nights grinded it out. So. So, yeah, I. That's a flu game right there. That's a flu game performance. That was my Jordan flu game. Yeah, it was. It was a real test. Oh, now that you're newly wed, though, dude. The first time your wife's like, "Hey, I know it's a season. We got a vacation pal. I got news where the streak is broken. If you have any sense in your head, Doug, I don't care what the streak is. You just go to the vacation." I'm fortunate. She's. She's very understanding. And. I love her for that. So. Did she laugh you about the hobby stuff yet? That was one thing my wife was like, this is a fake world, right? And then she would see, like, me ripping her mind at breaks. It was like, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. She'll ask me on board. She'll. She. She'll ask the occasional question. Doesn't mind it at all. When I. Okay. I've set up at a handful of card shows. So it was. I'd done everything in the hobby for a long time, but the only thing I'd never done was set up at a show. So not this past summer, but the summer before. I set up at a couple. I set up at another one this past summer. It's the Fort Lauderdale Card Show, a great local card show here in my area. But she's. She's come while I've been there and just really, really enjoyed the environment. So it's been fun to have her there. And she brought her folks to it this past summer as well so they can see the spectacle that was the Fort Lauderdale Card Show. Very cool. Hey, Doug. We appreciate it, man. Make sure you guys check out Nonsense on Ice. It comes out every week here on the SCN Network and Doug's been killing it for us over there. So yeah, we really appreciate it. It's late January as we start getting close to the Olympics. Absolutely. Hey, Doug is phenomenal, number one. And that question about having the boys. It's something that I'm going to take and I'm going to learn from. Again, I've got perfect attendance for Cut the Nonsense. So, you know, I'm the Iron Man here as well. Danny, you had mentioned to me that you had an opportunity to open a arena club back. Why at Langford? Okay. Well, I thought about holding it for the baseball season. I'm not sure on this entire, it wasn't auto. I did sell it back. I thought the price was, was a very good price to be honest with you. So I thought what was the card? What was the specific card? It was the Bowman first. Oh, so that's a 2023. He came up with the schemes, didn't he? Yeah. His stuff's way down too. But he still sells good. Yeah, crazy good. And I thought it was a good price for his stuff being down. And if he's not to be nothing, then I did well and if he turns out to be something I took the gamble, you know, he's going to have to play so unbelievably great though to get back to his hype price. It won't matter. So, by the way, the code is SCN. That's it, right? Okay. I think I'm right about that. SCN. Correct. Rebecca. No, that's fine. I get this wrong every time. It's just SCN. You save 20% or 25%, whatever it is. They jack it up. 20% off. So, yeah. Rip anything you want. You can sell it right back immediately if you want to just keep ripping. Or you can keep the stuff and they'll ship it to you, so to keep looking for those themed packs too. Hopefully, very soon. We're talking about our 2026 deal. We're going to curate SCN stuff for them. So, we'll see. Sign the deal. We'll do it. Joe, take us out here. Cut the nonsense. Make sure that you'd like us on Instagram, Facebook, we're on the sports cards nonsense page. On YouTube, cut the nonsense, smash the like button. We'll see you next week. All right, guys. We'll see you.