Reviewing Lena Dunham's Famesick

I've lost my man's gonna get excited and the nation will as well. - Exactly, rule number one. - She's a good way to let this test for something like that. Rule number one. (funky music) Welcome back to Girls Rewash. Apocalypse About Girls. - TV. - And girls on TV. - I'm a book. - And I'm a memoir audiobook. - Ooh. - No, I'm Amelia. - Uh-oh, come on, girl. I'm so excited to be talking my Lena book, Lena book today. - I know, also my tap into me a while listening to this audiobook that it was so great because it kind of felt like experiential learning. - Oh my god, yeah. Okay. Have you heard of that one school? Sorry. I'm immediately going off topic. But it's experiential learning where you only take one class at a time for four weeks. - Yeah, Colorado College. - Yeah. - Yeah, you heard of it. Okay, cool. I thought about that. - I know it was my dream college. I didn't get in. I didn't get in the blog. - I know. - You know that was my dream college. - That was my dream school though. - Five. - I know. Sometimes your dreams are too big to even approach them. - Can we talk about the fact that I thought this book was going to have a little bit more information about Oberlin College? - Not. It doesn't even touch. - It doesn't even touch. - Oh god, at least. - It makes me want to reread her original. - Where did she go into Oberlin College, like that kind of girl? - Not that kind of girl. Also, okay. I looked it up. She was offered $3.5 million for that book. That's why Jenny Conner was like, girl what? - $3.5 million? - Yeah. - Again, sometimes your dreams are too big to even approach. - No, the way Lena got everything a girl could wish for and then she could not handle it and at every turn something went so right was really troubling for me. - Yeah. Well, actually her life is written like a movie where it's like, you think the protagonist is finally coming to such a great point in their life and then the world's worst has my clodic event ever happens. - It's like in a Disney movie where right before the resolution, there's one more like rising action issue that is you that it's like no, she's totally gonna get hit by the train. - I might even apply that to like just movies in general. - And almost maybe life in general. - Yeah. - But we can talk about the time finding Nemo. - Yeah, no, finding Nemo. - This book is kind of like Marlon just watched his whole family die, but then he finally has a relationship with his son Nemo who dares to be different and the moment he dares to be different, something terrible happens where he gets kidnapped. - I'm gonna cry right now. - I love that movie. - Which of course immediately reminds me of the 14-minute TikTok I watched this weekend where a girl explained Ellen DeGeneres' entire history. - Oh, I was about to bring that up. - Oh, perfect. - She was really good at explaining it. - I know. - I love the pacing of her voice. - She is a great girl. - Some people are doing amazing stuff on TikTok. Immediately this book for me, I was just like, little did we know what was going on behind the scenes, like we slowly re-watched every episode and we're like, she's so fun for this. She's so fun for this. Nemo, she's actively like falling apart at the scenes, like she has sissed her over, nothing is going right. - I know. You have to feel bad for a girl going through so much. - I mean, I can't even imagine. - I mean, it definitely, it felt like first perception of the book, it's very much like something internalized story where I ultimately felt that my relationship with Lena changed so much throughout the truly like the pacing of this story. I mean, maybe it's like ultimately events happening in my own life, but it was one of those great representations of like when you have more information about something, usually don't like it anymore, probably like it less, but you come to respect it in a different way. Any relationship, right? I mean, Lena is such a parasocial relationship for both of us, so garnering more information about ones that you're parasocial with ultimately, ultimately doesn't always resound in something that is beneficial for either party, but brings you somewhere interesting. - Now, what the hell are you? - I will find out. - You've got to tease it girl. You've got to tease it. - Wait, what do you mean? - You've got to tease it. - Well, we're getting into it right now. Tell me. - Okay, well, that's a tease, and now, honey, here's a full meal. I just felt throughout listening of this book where after our interview with Lena, I didn't necessarily know exactly how to, where she was even overseas before the interview and then she was so kind and ultimately, all expectations in my mind were blown. She really did deliver what I, hopefully, was like, manifesting for her to be so charismatic, smart, poignant and great, gave great insight while it didn't feel patronizing and ultimately one of our best interviews today. They say, don't meet your heroes, which I actually would agree with someone with, but Lena definitely felt like a hero worth meeting and didn't solely my experience of her at all. But reading this book was another meeting of Lena, and I think I really still love Lena and I hold her in such a pedestal, but I don't know if I necessarily have the same exact image as I once did even upon meeting her. - Oh my God, what change would you say? - Well, I, it might be an experience of reading most memoirs, but when people, this, sometimes like the oversaturation of one figure, I mean, in my mind, can just run into a certain kind of fatigue where I am spending, when you spend so much time consuming other thoughts, I also feel like I'm highly empathetic, so ultimately, I felt like I was taking on the burden of Lena a bit, and ultimately, it's hard to necessarily understand where the boundary of her pain is, and then also where the boundary of her own narrative of her story is, and it's hard when it only comes from the narrator's perspective, and you don't necessarily have as many outside voices, because I always find that truth is somewhere in the middle, and my experience of meeting Lena, I found my truth in the middle, like my expectations first actually meeting her, but when it's just like more of this one side of relationship again, it then becomes like where exactly it's a truth, and I felt that her writing was so unapologetic in girls, where this felt like it was a polygenic writing, but she didn't necessarily feel like there was like a specific apology to anyone. I mean, there's apologies to her brother, and a society at large, and I do think she like held responsibility for this mistake she has made, but not in like complete sincerity at times, which ultimately is the human experience at large. Really? I had a completely opposite reaction to the book. So you listened, and you were like, "Okay, this is a lot of this girls in our world. I don't want to hear it." Well, it's probably my own like relationship with like a self-sum during narrative in general. It's like what I find hard in a lot of narrative pieces, ultimately, where stuff becomes so one-sided, it's hard to ultimately feel like you find like the great truth, and like a good thing about girls is that it doesn't necessarily even know it is like Lena. It's not just one-sided interaction where Lena tackles the character of Hannah Horbath in both her own perfection, but also her own incarceration, and like that's done through the character of Hannah or through her relationship to others, but Lena operates as Lena and doesn't necessarily take on the hubris that the character of Hannah Horbath often presents. So your mod, it was a memoir by a writer? I wonder if it, like I felt like it maybe could have been like like a maybe you wanted it to be fiction or more forgiving for both maybe even herself and others. And I know that's just like her internal experience, and that's part of the memoir process, but it's just something I find frustrating. I, on the opposite side of the spectrum, loved how raw and honest she was about so much. I especially found her reflections on her relationship with Jenny Connor to be like the most interesting part of the book for me specifically, just because she is old enough to reflect on like how that wasn't healthy, but she was also still so clearly like in it and like still feels sad about that and like is confused because she's like this young girl that literally became like obsessed with this woman who like then it like became a very complicated relationship and it just reminded me of like why I love girls is because she's so on afraid to like examine the dark side of like female relationships and like how confusing and like contradictory everything is because it's like, yes, some of the things Jenny is doing, it's like, whoa, but then it's like Jenny is like being her mother and then there's like, I mean, it was just so interesting that part and then I think her reflections on like her experience with like the medical worlds and like how doctors treated her like the endometriosis of it all and like her own unprocessed grief with like her body and like the chronic pain and like the feeling the contradictory feeling of like needing to be taken care of, but also knowing that she's in charge of taking care of others. And like, I just, I found it very heartbreaking, honestly, to just, 'cause it's so easy, and like, the public has so easily been like, she's a spoiled rich kid who just got this thing, and like, whatever was terrible at being a public figure. And then you like, look on the inside of that, and like actually hear like what it was like for her. And she even says it. She's like, obviously, I'm not perfect, whatever. But it was interesting to see like, her give, like, this is where I came from with this. And I think it's important that she like, I, she could have so easily not addressed all these things that people are constantly like bringing up in the comments sections and whatever. But she literally like took a chapter for like everything that like had been unresolved for the last 10 years. And I like that she wasn't like, whoa is me. I'm absolutely right about this. She was just like, so this is my side of the story. I actually liked that it was like, 'cause it was so clear that she is aware that this is my side of the story. Rather than like, let me explain this situation, and this is what's right about it. Just like, girl, she doesn't tell you what's right or wrong. She's like, it's all somewhere in the middle, but this is my side of the story. - So I liked it for that. - I know you don't necessarily disagree with those points. I, again, the process of memoirs, of course, like based in own self's synchronicities and like specificities. And what I find interesting, it's like, watching Lena grow as an artist, is that, and I ultimately think it's probably partially to blame on disease itself, 'cause it robs so much, especially from an energy standpoint. But I think watching the trajectory for career, as she grew into projects that weren't as much self-ferential. And she is such a talented writer when it comes to her own specificity. And I do enjoy her in that capacity, but I didn't necessarily feel that it encompass the ideology of others from her standpoint, as much as I maybe would have hoped it could have. And that's just, maybe that's an unfailure of like expectations on Lena. - Wait, it didn't, what, explain that? - The ideology of others, where she gives, I mean, and memoir can only be written from one's point of view, but I would have found it interesting to see Lena also approach the concept more from the mindset of others, and give these more like bottle episodes almost where we could really almost visualize ourselves through other characters in her life. And I just, that's, maybe it's again, it's an expectation thing, but I watch her do, many for most recent projects, that have been left self-referential, she's also been so beautiful at that. And I felt that as an artist, that's a direction she was growing in, but I mean, again, what can I expect fully from a memoir? But I've seen it done. - Like what memoir isn't from that person's perspective, that's the whole point. - No, no, I'm not saying from the person's perspective, I'm saying, I, maybe would wanna see Lena dive even deeper into the feelings of others. - She's so articulate about her own. She gives theories. - Like what are you mad at? - I'm a mad, I'm just posturing what I would have expected. - Like who in her life were you like, I wanna hear more about like what she thinks they were thinking? - I mean, I think there's like a myriad of characters. I felt that even with the Jack character, I felt that Jack Antonoff in reality, where I ultimately, I don't think you like leave with a specific taste in your mouth around Jack, other than something you might have around your own like preconceived notions, but Lena doesn't necessarily depict him either as like fault or like criminal or like a victim or perpetrator, he kinda like falls somewhere in the middle and it's kind of just this failure of time and she does acknowledge her own fault. But I would love for her to like peel back another layer when it came to Jack that I felt like I didn't necessarily even understand Jack's own perception of Lena was. I felt very convoluted by her own. And I mean, again, this is the process partially of a memoir, but I felt very convoluted by her own like compulsive thoughts that I sometimes find it interesting if we like we can spend as much time in others as well that encompass our stories because we truly often see that like our friends, our relationships are the ones that are able to best like dictate ourselves 'cause there's less things like discern because we have like so many compulsions in our brain. I would have liked to see other characters and people in her life encompass in a more fleshed out way. - Interesting, okay. I mean, I literally felt like she flushed them out so well and like, yeah, from her perspective, but we knew that going in and I was surprised how much she rode the line of neutral when it came to the way like she was so fair to everyone. Like she wasn't like doing a sneeric campaign on everyone. If anything, she was doing a sneeric campaign on herself and all her failings and her regrets. So I mean, I'm very interested that like that was your experience reading it, but I don't know. I felt like very in the no one like where everybody's heads were or where she thought everybody's heads were at in each moment that she's describing. - Yeah, I mean, I did love the book. I don't think that is something to leave behind, but I just as an artist, I thought she was growing in one way and she's still very much like Lena for 20s, which isn't wrong and I just don't think like anyone could ultimately probably fulfill what excitation I have just 'cause I hold Lena on set to high pedestals. I like expect such grand things and she delivered something fantastic. Ultimately, I like, I think there's like a perfect memoir maybe for just what I'm wanting and I maybe put that on Lena and it wasn't necessarily what I read, but I did learn so much through the experience of this book. Period, well, let's cut to our first break and then we get back. We will dive into kind of like all the girl's specific lore that she drops and discuss all that. (upbeat music) And we're back. Okay, so we start off the book and she tells us about her short film, Creative Nonfiction, going to Park City with Audrey Gellman and her friend Sarah, so like, now you give it to me of just getting out of like liberal arts school and being like anything is possible. She touches on like this stuff she talked about and not this kind of girl of like selling the baby clothes, like the thing Jessica does in girls. - A more baby clothing. - The tour baby clothing, feeling lost, feeling so like uninspired and weird post-college and then doing the Lusional Downtown Divas. - Hello. - Hello where she was just like filming. I teared up at the part where like, her dad-- - She talked to the staff, the brothers. It's really beautiful. (laughing) - The, um, she like, her dad visits her on set and she's like directing Jemima in a street scene and he's like, you guys have been doing this since we were kids and now it's just official. Like I think that is so beautiful where it's like something you do and neatly as a child before there's all these like, things and then like for her to like be like, oh, I'm doing it for HBO now. - Yeah, I'm doing it on girls. - Yeah. - Right, so the passage, Amelia's talking about, Lena is on season three of girls and her dad finally comes of it to set and he sees Lena both directing but also the way Lena and Jessica are hanging out behind the scenes and he'll immense on how that their childhood relationship is still, so represented in their working relationship. - Yeah, um, but it was very cool to see how she described being, what, 23, 24, with the success of Tiny Furniture at Southby and then within a month, like getting all these like things. - I know, I mean, that was like, we talked about the pit structure. I'm like, those few chapters, I like to pit every day. It was another chapter. She filled it up so quick. - Yeah. - It was just going through life experience, through life experience. I mean, to go through Southby and especially your first movie festival and to immediately land a largest prize and then lifted to the world's age so quickly, it's almost like a couple of reunification of, or like the closest we can get to writer. - Yeah, literally. - Oh my god, it overnight success. I can't believe this, child prodigy, but ultimately, there's also like a real work ethic behind there and it's been a decade in the making to even with the Grammy camp. Literally, yeah, it was so interesting to hear her speak on like, how everybody, three emails she got. She was like, "Of course!" And how everybody wanted to talk to her or meet with her and then even when she talks about the first success of season one and then everyone she's ever met, like asking her on a coffee day or wanting her to read their script or something and her reflections on wanting so badly to be a good girl. And I think the way she describes the people pleasing, she felt like she had to do. Or like she's on set. She's in like a lot of physical pain. And then she's describing like, not only does she have to like act direct, write all of this. She also has to perform like being a woman and like being so charming and being so like, a great listener to everybody. I found the most interesting part of the book for me was, I mean, I already said the journey. - A real estate journey. There's a lot of different real estate, yeah. - Her real estate journey. No, it was her sense of self blame. And the guiltiness she felt to like please everyone all the time constantly. And being so angry at herself when she failed to. Like and like the sadness she felt with like her chronic pain of like she knew it was hurting other people and annoying other people. And she felt so bad. Like the main part of the pain was being sad that she couldn't like be perfect rather than like, like she's like, I want to be such a good girl. And now I'm in so much pain. It's making it so hard and I feel so guilty. And then of course like everybody else like living their own lives and being like, well, our girl that we work with is like constantly. - No, really? - Or like this is so stressful. - It's wonders. Well, and again, it's like the balanced truth of physical pain. It's often manifested in emotional pain as well and a differential between the two ultimately is like it. It's an undersurning line. And was it like a body like a manifesting, I'm not saying that she made herself sick at all, but it's like the manifestation of pain in the body. And when you ignore those signs, the growth of them as well. Or was it, she also like the emotional burden was only being contributed to from her own physical pain. And again, it's probably somewhere in the middle. But it's that unique prospect that we often hear highly successful people, especially those overworked, like find themselves in some, like life altering physical ailment that is often hidden and convoluted and hard to explain. And yes, it's like a diagnosis that she had, a young age, but so exacerbated by distress of her own life. And while watching her journey, like in the early days of girls where she was so like propelled by just like the novelty and energy of a new project, which I always find myself in, like early days of anything I do, the novelty really helps amplify anything I'm doing. And she's able to really show up to the TV show in like this really immense way, but often it like it became just like cannibalizing relationship so quickly. - Yeah, I mean, to have that much pressure on you and like to be so aware that this is the thing you wanted and to not waste it and to like really be present, but really just not have the tools. It's also interesting like how much she describes herself as like unable to care for herself, always needing to be saved. It's like always needed to be wanted to like prove she's allowed to be alive while like she's doing all this stuff, like the disconnect between her like really being a provider and like a caretaker for so many people and being like, I can't do anything, like why would Jack deal with me? Why are my parents, my parents are the only ones who love me and that's 'cause they have to like, it's so interesting like hear her musings on how like guilty she felt this whole time and then like the pressure of like providing for these people. - Well, actually, like how she was a main provider, she says for 200 different people. - Yeah. - And especially such a young age, like the unfairness of that expectation. I mean, that was kind of healing for me while reading this book because to be like 23, around 24 sort of his podcasts around the same age that Lena had her own show and the discrepancies between our own success where you go, and I don't think I'm alone in this feeling, I feel like a lot of creatives ultimately, and part of the reason I think she even has hate to begin with, or just so envious of her position. And while reading this book, it really reminded me of the fact that success like later in life, it can really be a blessing when you have the ability to truly like be able to take care of yourself and like to learn skills of just life on its own 'cause she went from living in her parents' apartment to her running a TV show for HBO and being- - Like she didn't even really know how to cook a meal for herself, and then she was kind of the creator, writer, star of a show, which is so intense. - It's time to leave. - I also think it's interesting because we exist in a community of people who are like, if I don't get everything I want by the time I'm 25, I'm basically dead and a loser and a flop, and then to see the flip side of somebody who did get something so young and be like, I wish I had more tools and skills before I got this opportunity is so interesting. And I think Abby and Alana touched on that too where they were like, yeah, we just got thrown into this and like we wanted to make the most of it, but it was extremely overwhelming and like only with time are they able to kind of like reflect on like the experience and like them realizing like Abby talking about like her relationship with like being a workaholic and like I might regret this, and it's like, well she felt so lucky to have the opportunity. She was like, I have to milk it for all it's for and to hear like Lena go through the same thing. It's just like any woman who like becomes successful and gets the thing they want, then it takes on so much like pressure and go. And it's just the thing of like nothing will ever make someone happy. - Yeah, and it's also the unique understanding that fame ultimately is a resource and the resource is one that's just like compounds and opportunities for oneself. But I think there's a failure in anyone who receives fame. I mean, it doesn't matter what age, but often it's burdened upon the young that they themselves don't necessarily know how to like angle their opportunity. - Who said it? Youth is wasted on the young. (laughing) - Millions. - Millions, but one guy, Ted Bundy. - Ted Bundy. - He said it first. Okay, well let's get into the Adam of it all. Thoughts and reflections. - Yeah, I mean, I didn't really expect anything different from Adam, I wasn't shocked in this light as I wish he didn't actually physically hurt Lena, but he seems truly so panicked in the mind. - He seems panicked in the mind. - Yeah. - Put that on a hoodie. I think Adam's audition and like the thing of like him biting her arm and her being so like, you forget how like young and like get you she can get and it's cool that like she felt that way. She's just so young in that video, but it's so funny to me that like he auditioned and Judd and Lena were like, it should be him, right? And then Judd's like, let me just check with Leslie Mann really quick and Leslie's like, oh yeah, of course. Like that's so funny. - Leslie Mann's gonna get excited and the nation will as well. - Rule number one, but to hear like how scared she was and how like insecure he made her because it's like, well she was putting too much of her own worth into like what he thought of her. And like it's actually not his responsibility to like be reassuring to her, but the idea of like watching the pilot and then he disappeared and didn't answer the phone for three weeks, that would kill me if I was 22. Like that would literally make me check into a rehab facility. - And hopefully hang out with a 19-year-old and a juicy suit. - No, literally. I have to tell you about how I got scams for $600 yesterday in the meantime by an astrology journey. Yeah, in a-- - That's a ridiculous number. - In an astrology, in a juicy track. - At least it would have been 666 to keep it. - It was 585 to be exact. - Well, I'm like, I don't know the angel numbers for that, but I do think those equal to rip off scam girl. - I'm going to see her this afternoon. - Yeah, you're called tuition. Can't go back to grad school. No MBA for you, babe. Anyway, yeah, I mean. (all laughing) - Hey, checking in, have you got girl? - Yeah, I mean watching her with Adam, I just think one in a position of early onset celebrity ultimately is like needing kind of a disregulating factor in order to like make themselves feel small 'cause they are forced to feel large in so many different scenarios. When ultimately she went from being such a small entity to such a big entity so quickly. And I'll talk about my body I'm talking about as like a presence. And watching Adam completely walk into a room in this rubbed, her the signal she was getting of. Like a increased admiration and she's so young to have this show and casting This project and so many opportunities coming her way to have him walk in and like give her This bite in his audition. I think It's like it's something so tremendous for her because she does not want to feel like the one who's constantly in power And especially probably with every single one of her cast member. She is the one of power because she's directing a show but Adam is just so untamable Like the way they like tried to like do a birthday cake for him at the end of the day Got in his car and left and then his manager called and said never surprise him again. I said oh my god I personally if I was making a TV show I would not want someone with his personality To be a part of it, but that's just my perception of the situation Well, and it's so funny because they talk about how like the energy on Shooting with always so palpable like not even sexually just like there's always like a high vibration Yes with all these like new up-and-coming starlets on one set and the show getting so much attention so quickly And she said that they were able to handle in the best way that they could have under Standing to circumcances and that really sat with me because we really could have seen another side to show completely and I think it really talks about the Strength of every single one of the actors on set just Alison Williams Sasha Maman. They're like level professionalism because they were able even under these excruciating situations able to still deliver in such a high caliber way Yeah, and I also think like it's so clear to me that Lena felt like the Intense relationship off screen between them was like feeding the show and like was what she wanted in the story and The will they won't they have like she thought they were gonna hook up Out of side of the show or like well. Yeah, he's at one point Lena and I never having kind of this flirtation between them and Lena invites Adam over to her apartment and when Adam and finally arrives to the department She doesn't respond to his text or his calling and he walks away But there is a moment where she is about to like cross a boundary of Being his boss to also lover and she knew she could not walk herself back for that situation and against her own intuition Like says no to his sexual pursuit and then he gets married one month later Which is huge that was cool. I was walking through the East Village as I heard her say that I said this I'm in for a ride But the thing that made me tear up on East 6th Street last week was Her talking about the end of girls and the last day recording with ad or shooting with Adam and Delm writing in the van together back to Brooklyn Heights, which they never do and then choose in that chapter She says we haven't spoken to each other directly in years But they finally shoot a scene together because they and like a view we were remembering girls like there's two seasons where they don't have any Interactions, I mean they were like on set because like Lena. I know that's what I had a that's why I was very confusing for me Because I know she's writer director, but she said they'd literally hadn't talked in two years in the book Well, it could be that they hadn't talked Yeah, like talk talks like it was strictly business like it was like an action I know, but it did come off in a way that she kind of like literally didn't even see him in a way it was up to Richard Shepard to do everything Yeah, I Well, it ends basically with her being like well, I guess this is the end like maybe I'll write you into my next thing or like We'll work together on a set and again soon like whatever and then she's like I have not spoken to him since When we were like the amount of interviews she's had to do in the last 10 years and we're like so how is your relationship with Adam driver? Now she finally tells us yeah, it doesn't exist. I don't even attacks which is crazy. Not even a text is crazy Well, she yeah, she was saying that at the end of the journey Adam also was thinking her so much for such an incredible time on set And she really created this proficient body of work and then it's like I really like and a friendly note because he acknowledges kind of how they like Had a tumultuous relationship at times, but he still wanted to think her and then I guess the things was also a thank you Next goodbye. It was crazy. It's also like the entire trope of like any TV show He is iris. It felt like it was truly an iris exit of uncollabor amounts. It was giving Irish goodbye But the idea of like the amount of women like the amount of people who have said the best part of girls was the boys Or like all the girls aren't doing anything now all the men are like Marvel heroes and how that's like actually a trope across the industry where it's like a Young woman is thrown away and a young man is just beginning and it's like Chris Pratt in Parks and Rec. It's like what the hell? It is just like so like I don't know. This was just such a reminder about the patriarchy. I'll say it. Yeah, I but I also want to acknowledge that Allison Williams has true like a release of St. John's career and she doesn't all of that lean on the book, but I mean ultimately I think kind of undermines like the success of these girls And she doesn't mean to it all, but I mean they I mean performing in the same Adam driver Yes has found himself because the the Star Wars franchise in truly like a list territory where none of them approach that but they're getting never really they're fairly close I just think like objectively like he is known worldwide now and like these women are still like their main characters Us and they are successful in their careers, but the like stark like difference is crazy. I mean if you were to average out to three main girls And I just four main girls and a three main guys. I ultimately think that you would have like a similar amount of success Like I think the mean is fairly equal between Lena, Jessica, Sasha and Alice, and Jemima. Jemima. Sorry. And then With the guy from the bear. Oh my god. He's a boss. Yeah, he's on moss. I'm driver and Christopher Abbott like Christopher Abbott hasn't all of he hasn't done a million projects He got to do that one movie with Emma stone Doll what's it called a doll phase now my god whatever stone. Yeah, he did that movie. And now he is over pauses I mean, that's high caliber to be Audrey pauses baby daddy. I totally understand that but I mean the rest of them have been in featured films since I just think like amazing and conversations with friends. I'm just like who saw that versus who saw Star Wars I of course have not seen any of Adam driver's work outside of girls not even a lick of it But he is so famous. I mean think about when we post him on the girls account versus like I've not seen any of his work though I don't care about that any project in earth any Million things girl. I lit well actually. I think I saw part of marriage story There you go, and I did not like the way he yelled at scar that Johansson But that aside like then the whole description of like Jemima convincing Jemima to do the pilot right after giving birth and then Her calling a mean like write me out the show and Lena being like all right You off the show of course girl and then Lena or Jenny and Judd being like so no She signed a contract for seven years and then her calling a mean like I just didn't want to tell you I was pregnant It is so funny. Like I remember when rain was on the pod describing like her theory about Jessum Yeah, and how it could only be written through like Lena don't I'm being like obsessed with this false version of her? Yes, this book made it so clear that that is the case And like Lena is like I just thought she was the most pretty girl in the world and like I mean yeah She's just like it's just like it's be on like it doesn't even feel up to her. She's just like she just has a way She channels through her. Yeah, it's really it's so amazing anything that goes back to my initial thought about even the book itself in the beginning where it's she writes yes and such as like full and composing way And I guess that's how I would like wish so many characters her life played out because she has intimate relationships with so many people I would like loved to have seen the gift that she gave to my mother through Jessica to other people in her book as well Like what? Just like like that full and composing understanding story of others Well, it was just so clear that she didn't have the full story with Jemima because she was so lost in the trans of like her beauty And I feel like she did like she encompassed Jemima and Jessica. I guess I'm just like what did you think she'd left out about Jack or Jenny? New like the full details like I want detail. I mean she read like letters word for word. No, I'm not disagreeing, but that's situational details I would love to see the peel behind the curtain a bit more Like what else could she have said? Well, that's what I'm saying. There's so much more. I think there could have been sad Like what? I don't know because I don't I can't write for, like, I don't know these people. So I don't, maybe there wasn't. Maybe they're like only just like two and a half to the individual, but I do think there's additional elements. Like, I would like to understand like, how Jack's brain was fully interpreted in situations, understanding the full stakes. She gives details, but I know that there's more behind it. And ultimately, also, I want- - You think it's her responsibility to express exactly Jack's point of view, like of her own life? - I don't think that's unfair. - I'm not, I didn't say it was ever fair. I just said that's what I would want. - Right. I just am surprised that you have this reaction to a memoir, but go off. - But it's not like a disappointing one. I just, ultimately, this is what I, like, this is what my expectations were. I felt- - Like, why did you think going in that she was gonna explain what Jack thought about her? Because- - How would she know? - 'Cause she gives enough understanding to the point that you understand there's more thought behind the actual moment she speaks about. - I'm just like, well, Jack can write his memoir. Like, what do you mean? - I'm not denying that. - What did you, like, how is she supposed to say more? I mean. - She could. That's my thing, or it's like, I would want her to at least. - Okay. - And that's what I'd want. Like, I think to me, the perfect memoir would be able to really, like, build- - Talk about other people's. - Yeah. - I just felt like they were pretty fully fledged. And of course, only through the lens of, like, when she saw them. But it's like, well, she doesn't know what he was doing when he was on tour. Like, why does she have to describe that? Or, like, Jenny, like, yeah, it's one-sided. But it's like, well, she wasn't at Jenny's house raising her family. - No, no, I'm not denying that. I'm just saying what I'd want. I don't know. It's not like something that's, like, criminal. It's just what I wanted from this memoir. And I do think it delivered her specific point of view very succinctly. And I appreciated it for that. And she set the talent to write her and her specificity is on, like, on a different caliber. - Slay, I love her. Okay, do we want to talk about any other girls related things specifically? What is there, the, um, her struggles with her body in season five and six. We should probably touch on. - Yeah, we don't talk about that. - What else is there? - There's the death of faulting between her mother and her relationship between seasons and the gap between, um. - Oh yeah, the early seasons when she was, like, sent home because she was so unwell and she'd finished, like, her dad's, like, she does her best work from her bed anyways. When they close the writers room early or something. - Isn't that for camping? - No, I think it did happen with camping. But it was for season two of girls. Also so interesting when she was, like, Judd made me re-shoot all of the beginning of season three 'cause he said I wasn't present. And then the part where, um, she was, like, she just casually brings up that she had to, like, rewrite all of season two, episode three, which is the co-famous co-episode. And it's like, she's so, like, that was the last thing on her mind in that time. Meanwhile, she's, like, oozing out, like, the voice of the generation in this TV show, like, like, the way we are, like, that co-episode is everything. And she's, meanwhile, like, depressed and, like, is, like, oh, shut things, I'm stupid. - No, I know. One thing I'm such, like, amends love for Lena in the project of girls and have put, like, appealing behind the curtain and going to see how much pain she was in. And she was going through so many terrible things in her personal life. And then, her, they did, literally, this, like, completely different product being distributed out of her about girls and how she's able to hold space about specific stories about from Hannah, especially in this, like, auto-fiction STV show. While, in her personal life, she's going through such a completely different story. And able to hold both flows at the same time, but it's just so, so much talent. - It's, honestly, I mean, just hearing her struggles through season six where it's like, she can barely stand. She's, like, laying down in between scenes, like, in so much pain. And then, like, we're watching season six and we're like, she's on the beach. Oh, she's crazy. Like, it's so, like, stark and shocking to, like, hear, like, how dark it was for her. So, in season six, there's even moments where she can't even walk anymore. There's six episodes. - She's got a cane. - Yeah, she literally goes between, I think, like, a couch in a bed, or, I can't remember exactly, but she feints during this, like, 10-second walk between different objects where she can, like, rest her body on, 'cause it just seems so extruding. And the doctors were so confounded by the thought of her being even able to stand during this time. And then, she's also just able to, like, go into sort of camp in the Hamptons. - Oh, like, do you not remember the scene of her, like, pouring a blue slush on herself, dancing the night away? Like, while she's actively, like, fainted 20 minutes ago, like, that is crazy. - Well, that's not true. - Well. - It was a hurricane. It was red. - What do you mean? - This lurpee? - It was a red, it was a hurricane that was red. - Oh. - I was just joking. - Kill me with a gun. Sorry for not being accurate, you guys. - And, like, she gave herself so completely to this project, and while watching it, you see that how negatively affected every single one of her personal relationships during this time to the point she'd barely even had them and kept talking about how she felt that everyone was hanging out without her. And she, at the same time, was, like, holding a friend group alive on TV. And it's so interesting to watch a TV show all about female friendship, where she ultimately has none outside of, like, ones that she's monetizing at the current moment, because she doesn't necessarily have capacity for it. And this even affects her familial relationships, where she loses touch with her brother, because he is going through this, like, crisis of, like, proximity to fame, where he doesn't want any on-do attention as he goes through his journey of transition. And Lena has a hard time to understand this, and how it's not necessarily centered around her. And, of course, she, like, gives forgiveness to herself and to her brother, just because of how busy the time was. But, I mean, there's not a relationship in her life that's not so negatively impacted because of her success. - Yeah, I think it's, like, so shocking to just hear all the way she felt she was failing, as we perceive her as, like, succeeding. And then, like, the degree to which she engaged with the hate, the show, and herself for receiving online and how much she swallowed it. And it, like, affected her is interesting because I think, like, that is less common now. Or, like, I think Gen Z is, like, less like that. Like-- - Wait, like, what? - Like, wanting to know everything bad about them. Like, I feel like a lot of people are, like, well, the people who hate me are a loser. If you click on their profile, they're, like, a weird dad in Long Island. Because, you know what I mean? Like, rather than, like, oh my god, this must be true, where it's like-- - Well, there's so many more people getting canceled now that it ultimately-- - It was just her-- - It was just her-- - It was just her. - It's where she really is the forefront of being canceled. - I mean, the Jezebel thing. I mean, the getting the vote cover and the Numbine, like, will you be naked on the Brooklyn Bridge? And she's like, well, no. - That's what the thing did on you. - And then, she has, like, a rash on her face. And then, Jezebel is, like, let's do a feminist slay of, like, the untouched photos. And she's like, well, I'm in hell. Also, her being on SNL and being, like, all these Harvard guys, like, reduced me and I didn't really like it. Like, that was, like, interesting to hear because, like, in your head, like, within two weeks, she got to be on the cover of Vogue and host SNL. But then, like, in actuality, she was, like, my face was freaking out. - Yeah, in actuality. And it'll leave a wits after seeing a woman jump to off the Brooklyn Bridge and another photo shoot. It's like-- - Smile, smile, girl. - If they get that on film, it's like, oh my god, what the hell is happening? - Literally, it's, like, so darn good. I mean, I was just jaw on the floor at so many moments in this book. But the idea of, like, the part where Jack is, like, realize it, like, when they finally, okay, well, first, sorry, I'm everywhere. But the doctor popping her cyst was the saddest thing, the way she talks about that. - Wow. - Literally was so painful. And then, like, Jack being, like, trying to be there for her, but getting frustrated and being, like, what is this pain? Like, what are you talking about? You should be fine. And then, now I'm taking out her uterus and being, like, yeah, there was 37 lesions, blah, blah, blah. Like, it's so the thing of, like, a woman complaining about her period hurting. And then she dies and you look at, like, her uterus. And it's just, like, endometriosis, like, killing her. And the fact that she was able to withstand all that pain and not be believed during the process. I mean, when Lena says she got the email from the guy's new girlfriend. And she thought it was gonna be her asking for a favor, but it was her being, like, I think you have this autoimmune disorder. And then she ends up with, like, it wasn't all in your head. I can't even imagine what that would feel like to feel like, it wasn't all in your head. - Right. - And then for somebody to be, like, you're not crazy. - Well, yeah. So the, who's the, it's the one girlfriend. Is it Nick? Or it's not Nick, the crazy guy. I forgot. So a friend of a friend. So a friend of a friend tells Linda to them, she actually probably has this rare diagnosis of endometiosis that often isn't carved. I think it's an autoimmune thing that she was born with that explains the rash she got when she was a toddler. Her stretchy skin, flexible joints, and her ability to not recover after surgery. So sad. It's so sad. Also, her just casually mentioning being sexually assaulted as a child, being raped as a young adult, and then being assaulted at the doctors is crazy. Oh my god. Girl, again, she's doing a little life for a woman. It's so sad. I know. But all this to say, we got it. We got to close it out. We got to conclude. Is there anything else from girls that we specifically want to touch on? I think that she is. It's amazing to watch the parallels, though, from her own life in the show itself, and getting up like pull behind a curtain, especially as such a big fan of the show. And Lena got wine to actually Anderson and Nexus for any of her concepts, and how she is able to pull with such specificity and singularity from her own life, where she takes literally true dialogue, and is able to recompess that in her projects, where it's not a quote or this pair of phrase sentence, but she pulls actual lines from her life. And that's kind of why girls is such a touching project because of how personal it is. Yeah. It was really cool to kind of like hear the behind the scenes of it all, especially from a little bit of time away, just because I feel like not that kind of girl. I mean, she reflected a lot on her childhood in that, but it was so like present or like where she was at that time. And this does feel like it's very present at like where she is at in her life right now. Like I think if she wrote about the same topics 20 years from now, they'd be so different. And I think that's what's so like interesting about hearing about it, because so many things she's writing about, she's like, it still feels like it was so fresh or was just yesterday. And it's like, it's very cool to like get a peek behind the curtain of like where she was at during all of this time. It is. It's beautiful. Yeah. Um, we live for the details. We live for the details. And if you live for the details head on over to our sub sack, where we will be covering part, well, melee will be covering part two and three of the book fame sick. This is our new sub sack. Please, this is the best way you can interact and support the podcasts. We will be releasing biweekly movie media podcasts from our individual perspective. We'll be bringing some of your favorite thinkers into kind of a byline ask feature on our sub sack girls rewok. So please come head on over there, subscribe, and we'll have some fun. Yes. Um, I will be going more in depth on like the endometriosis and like post like the part three of the book. Um, so if you're interested in diving deeper about fame sick, head over there. Look out for that dropping soon. Bye.