This episode of the Digital HR Leaders Podcast is brought to you by WorkLitics. According to McKinsey, Strategic Workforce Planning is now a CEO priority. Indeed, two-thirds of CEOs say that competitive differentiation depends on having the right expertise in the right roles supported by re-skilling, selective hiring, AI agents and strategic partnerships, the build-by-bot-borrow model. Despite this, Workforce decisions are still overwhelmingly being made with surprisingly limited visibility into capability, cost and risk. This is something my guest today, David Edwards, a long-time Strategic Workforce Planning practitioner and author of a recently published book, The Strategic Workforce Planning Handbook, has spent most of his years trying to assess. David has worked across finance, operations, transformation, HR and, on both the practitioner and vendor side, which gives him a grounded perspective on why Strategic Workforce Planning often makes sense in theory, but invariably proves difficult in reality. This is why I'm particularly excited about this conversation, as we explore why Strategic Workforce Planning can feel deceptively threatening inside organisations, why turning it into a big HR process usually backfires. And what changes when you stop thinking about headcount and start thinking about capability, capacity, cost and risk over time? That's not all though, as we also dig into the relationship between people analytics and strategic workforce planning teams, what goes wrong when they run in parallel, and what good looks like when they're tied to real business decisions and outcomes. So if you're trying to get ahead of change rather than constantly catching up, this episode will give you plenty to think about. With that, let's get the conversation started. David, welcome. For listeners who might not know you yet, pace can you introduce yourself and the work you've been doing in Strategic Workforce Planning? Well, being in this Strategic Workforce Planning space now for about 15 years or so and have done so in a couple of major corporates in that West and Erickson in addition to having also been for a short time, Product Manager and then Head of Advisory Services for Workforce Planning for the tech van der Vizier. Mine I think is the epitome of an eclectic career. So I've got a background in finance, in operations, in project management, tech van der consultancy, and I also have considerable expertise in managing tumble dryers in a hospital laundry because that's how I started. That's the first. We've not had that one before. We all start in different places. I actually started in the UK Civil Service, believe it or not, writing briefings for senior ministers and MPs all the way back in the 90s. You know, we both started in that particular vein. Actually, there's a little prequel which was straight after school. I went to Kenya and spent a year there as a voluntary teacher. Okay. Very good. So, obviously background in finance, Ops, project management, obviously you've sustained Strategic Workforce Planning on two sides of the fence from the vendor perspective and also the practitioner. And you've just written the Strategic Workforce Planning Plabour, which we'll be talking about quite a lot today. David, can I ask you this? It's probably a question I like asking all of the guests on the show and they've all got different answers to it. What drew you into the world of Strategic Workforce Planning and HR? Well, I certainly wasn't an HR life, as you can tell from sort of all of those different backgrounds. I was initially drawn in whilst I was working at the Royal Bank of Scotland, which subsequently became that West. And had been asked if I would work on a right-shoring project, which was a nice little euphemism for moving roles across from the UK over into India because it was going to be cheaper. And I just got interested in the data because that role quite quickly sort of morphed into managing exits. And I was struck by not only how much data there seemed to be floating around in different pots, but how little use was actually being put to it. And I got the opportunity to work in the transformation division of that West. And that led me to a project which involved rationalising the vendor community. The third party provided us a statement of work, and that really started to open my eyes up because I started to understand just how many people there were involved on that side of the fence. But it was also giving me considerable insight into not just the number of employees that we had, but what they were doing and what their kind of churn rate was. And the big revelation for me was when I discovered by joining about six or seven different bits of data together all on the spreadsheet, and then he bloody killed me, that I was able to say to the guy who was the COO at the time of the bank, plucked up the courage to ask to go and see him. Where there were something like 900 employees that we had let go at the same time as we were hiring into very similar roles in very similar locations in very similar time zones, about 900 external staff. So we were literally juggling people out one door, bringing similar people through another, and it just seemed wrong. From that, I and a wonderful colleague of mine called Tom Carrigan, whose ability to show despair is a thing of beauty really ought to be showcased in a museum somewhere. But we put together a clearing house that basically saved about 600 people we estimate from redundancy by putting them into other jobs. And that's been the bedrock for me of everything that I've done since then. Before we get on to talk a little bit about the book and what inspires you to write it, what's your definition of strategic workforce planning? It's evolved and it keeps evolving. It is a realization that the way we work, the way we do business is being massively changed by technological advancement and also by social change as well. I am a late-ish baby boomer, generational changes and attitudes are certainly making a dramatic difference to the workplace. Whereas, and we've managed to get about 10 minutes in without mentioning the letters A, A, I think that's quite an achievement. But it is the elephant in the rub that we simply cannot ignore and it is going to change things. Now, the problem is, I'm not sure that many people really know exactly how. They instinctively can sort of see that it's going to alter the way we work. But the precise way in which that's going to happen is really difficult to actually pin down as if it like trying to nail jelly to the wall at the moment. Strategic workforce planning is a form of synthesis of all of the different impacts, pressures, trends. And also empirical and data-led evidence. And that synthesis results in being able to say these are the things that we should be worrying about and doing something about and these are the things we don't have to worry about. Now, that makes it less of a process and more of a way of thinking. And I believe that as I've gone through the not just writing the book but also my own experiences, I'm increasingly averse to the idea of thinking of it as an annual process and more of a, okay, how is that now changing our expectation about the future? This episode is sponsored by WorkLitics. How productive is your organisation? Really. 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You've just published a tremendous new book called The Strategic Workforce Planning Hamburg, which is on Cogan Page and available to everyone listening to this to buy. What inspired you to write this book and why now? I started writing a few pithy, whimsy inspired articles on LinkedIn. I've always loved words. They've always loved playing around with words and using storytelling and analogy. It turns out the storytelling is actually quite an important art in the practitioners bag of tricks. Cogan Page approached me and said, "Well, we've seen some of these articles if you've ever thought of writing." The on the Suns was no "I hadn't." But actually when I started to put together a framework for the book, it was very clear that I felt I had quite a lot to say. There are some fantastic books out there which go into the theory, the thinking, what I didn't think was out there was the practitioner perspective and the real nuts and bolts. The real world is extremely messy and there is nothing messier than the arguments that we have over data, over what we should be doing next. Politics is not an adjunct to this process. It is absolutely central and a constant in that process. I wanted to get all of that out, but also I suppose I wanted to extend my own capabilities as a writer, to see my slightly quirky style of writing could apply itself to this. Also to tease out some of the, why are we doing this? Let's make it a little bit simpler than it is. It is really, really simple SWP. I wanted to emphasize that to anybody who's listening or watching. It is not this vast array of different toolkits that's available to you. It's asking a very simple question. It is this. Is your workforce fit, either for its current or for its future purpose? Now, if the answer is yes, there aren't any other questions. If the answer is no, which is much more likely to be, there are two other questions. The first is, what's the risk to the business as a consequence of it not being fit? And what can you do that will maximize the benefit for the business and for its people in the act of mitigating it? That's it. Everything else stems and flows from that. Very good. I've never heard anyone describe workforce fighting as simple before. So I'm going to leave for that. I know you mean you mean simple what its purpose is. But in the book, David, you positioned strategic workforce planning. I knew we talked about this a little bit already. Less as a process, and more as a different way of thinking about the workforce and its future fitness for purpose. Can you unpack that a bit for our listeners? What changes when organizations treat strategic workforce planning as a way of thinking, rather than as an HR process or a long-term headcount forecast? Well, there are a couple of prerequisites, I think, in the first of which is that there has to be a collaborative and executive lead will to bring this about. I am firmly of the view that if you simply try to implement it as an HR initiative, or as any other initiative, David Wilkins, I think from Talon Neuron, said that this year, they picked up 50,000 SWP-like vacancies outside of HR. That kind of gives you a sense also as to the identity crisis that SWP sometimes enjoys. You stop seeing the workforce as a headcount, but instead you see it as capacity, capability, cost and risk over time. I keep on using the word risk in every conversation I have because I then think that we actually use it enough. Yet we should. At what point did the workforce as an entity or as groups of individuals cease to become a risk to the business being able to do its work? It's almost as though we've assumed that they can somehow be commoditized and simply brought in or taken out at will, whereas especially in this day and age, when we do have skillshortages, where we are inevitably going to be saying, especially in Western Europe, significant talent constraints. We've got to take this an awful lot more seriously. We have problems breaking out all over in the demographics of the current workforce. We therefore need to move away from how many people do we need. This is where my thinking has definitely evolved, even in the last year, to what's the work that needs to be done? What are the outcomes that matter and what mix of options get us there? That leads me towards the the revised thinking I've got about SWP, not as an exercise in strategically planning the entire workforce, but in planning and having an operating rhythm around those parts of the workforce that are themselves strategic. That's a very different approach. If you think about it, if you want to SWP to succeed in a business, what better way could you make that happen than by focusing on those elements of the workforce, which really mattered to the business? We haven't done enough of that in the past. I think you're right. I heard a good example of this on stage, on leaf a couple of years ago, Alexis Sassinier of Mert Group was on stage, and he was explaining that exactly, as you were saying there, their workforce, their strategic workforce planning is really focused on the most important roles within the organization and bringing in the other piece that you talked about there about having collaborative and executive support. They don't initiate a strategic workforce planning project unless it's got a sponsor from the board or the board minus one. I think that executive support is so important because I'm sure you can do a lot of work in strategic workforce planning, a lot of work. If it's not for the right personal people within the organization, it probably goes nowhere. You are absolutely right. As a group of people, they have an unusually broad view of what's going on across the business, more broad than the most people outside of the companies Exco, and yet typically they will be at best around CO minus three and sometimes below that, and that can sometimes be a source of frustration. One colleague of mine, like in Dittor's, the little boy calling out the emperor's new clothes, the thing that strikes me about that is I actually looked up and said, "Well, what happened to the boy?" And the answer is nothing. It doesn't feature in the story at all again, and the emperor, who's wearing those clothes, doesn't suddenly rush to cover himself up. He carries on walking because it would demean his dignity to do otherwise. There are parallels, I think. Despite mounting evidence of people, analytics and strategic workforce planning working very well together, they are invariably akin to two juggernauts that haven't always coexisted comfortably. What does good look like when people, analytics and strategic workforce planning are working in sync? And what goes wrong when they're not in your experience? Well, I start with what goes wrong. I think if they are not in sync with each other, then you get analytics stuck, just proving things. You get SWP getting stuck, predicting things, but not actually able, expressing to the business why this stuff should matter to them. Neither of them typically is anchored in any decision forum with authority, or you get just two first thinking, you know, dashboards without decisions or plans without any kind of credibility. I think the other failure mode is possibly
cultural, the analytics teams can accidentally signal sort of, you know, well, where the truth and SWP practitioners can say, well, yeah, where the strategy and the reality, there is a strong mutual interdependence. Because as I said earlier on, SWP is a synthesis of lots of different things. Well, people analytics is one of the fundamental elements in that synthesis because your first go to, with any understanding as to sort of what's the most critical part of the business or what are the new sort of pressures or trends starting to, like, yeah, starting to affect your business. Yeah. How are people equipped to be able to do that? Back to that question, are they fit for that future business purpose? And people analytics can learn a good deal from SWP about context, about why certain things might matter more than others. But I think also SWP practitioners should be spending a lot more time looking at those analytics which come out and say, which of this stuff matters. Analytics needs to be able to say, this is a red flag. Even on a purely sort of statistical basis, there is something sort of odd about this. But the SWP practitioner can bring that context and say, hang on a minute, there's something much deeper going on here. And I will give you one example if I may. Intellectual property and licensing, all of that kind of stuff is big, big business in a number of manufacturing and technology companies. Yeah, can generate billions of dollars. But it is typically exercised and practiced and traced and defended by a very small number of people. Yeah, less than, say, half or even a quarter of 1% of your entire workforce. Do we know exactly what the demographics are of that workforce? Do we know what the attrition rates are? Do we have succession plans in place for those people? Do we have any senses to sort of whether certain people are more important than others? Can we actually tell from even a role description or a skill set or even a set of tasks whether one person within that grow is so much more important than the other? We can't necessarily, not even with all of the different sort of datasets that we now sort of hold, sort of, particularly high in regard. Those are the sort of things that we can really bring some value on. I want to take a short break from this episode to introduce the Insight 222 People Analytics program. Designed for senior leaders to connect, grow and lead in the evolving world of P-Panelistics. The program brings together top HR professionals with extensive experience from global companies, offering a unique platform to expand your influence, gain invaluable industry insights, and tackle real-world business challenges. As a member, you'll gain access to over 40 in-person and virtual events a year. Advisory sessions with seasoned practitioners, as well as insights, ideas and learning to stay up to date with best practices and new thinking. Every connection made brings new possibilities to elevate your impact and drive meaningful change. To learn more, head over to Insight222.com/program and join our group of global leaders. [Music] What I love about listening to you, David, and obviously, I've been fortunate to know you for quite a few years now, is you're a real strong advocate for widening the lens of strategic workforce planning, but beyond traditional focus on permanent headcount. So when organizations start looking at the whole workforce, so contingent labor, gig, dare I say, bots, etc. What opens up for them that maybe wasn't visible before? Well, the first thing is money. I actually came in to strategic workforce planning I alluded to it earlier on through an old angle, which was looking at third-party staff. Now, by and large, third-party staff don't count as headcount. Yet they cost an awful lot, you will find a lot of organizations with large technology functions will have quite a lot of them knocking around in the workforce, especially in change functions. Now, that's interesting. And one of the revelations that we certainly came across in that West was a realization that we were spending more or less the same amount of money on change each year. It was a 9, 10-figure sum. I forgot about that, right? Anyway, there was a lot of, no, there was a lot of noughts on it. And it wasn't changing that much over five years. And yet typically, we were hovering around 45% external staff all the way through. Why were we doing that? And a lot of that boils down to firstly, long established relationships with vendors. Secondly, the very fact that it's difficult harder even to hire permanent staff. And thirdly, there are often easier to get through because they are a purchase order and then not a hiring requisition. And purchase ordering has its own financial limits. There's a lot of cost aspect to it. The unit cost of these people tends to be higher. The second is risk. I mean, what's the fragility? What's the flight risk or the loss of IP that flows from having 45% of your change work balls in particular, not actually working for you? I don't like the idea of that for a second. The third thing you get is options. You start to think much more laterally about what is possible to solve a particular problem. It's not. We're going to build by borrow bot, etc. It's not one of those. It's a mix of them. And we're actually now having to face up to that truth because AI is forcing us to actually say, well, do we buy staff or do we bot them? But there are other options as well. And let's not forget that internal mobility has the ability to save an organization. They're a fantastic amount of money. So there is a financial appeal, but it's also got the ability to greatly enhance the employee proposition by actually progressing and through their careers. And yet, and there are numbers out there, you know, 50,000 per person is not an unusual figure that gets bandied about. Yet, I'm not convinced that the whole move to internal mobility is yet really yielding the kind of results that it could. Now, I'm getting on my high horse here, but my I would argue that strategic workforce planning or looking at the workforce strategically, that sort of, you know, let's call it that, gives you an earlier indication as to what is likely to happen over a longer term. And that creates a larger window of opportunity for you to do things differently. And internal mobility is cheaper than that, but also being able to negotiate, perhaps, better exclusivity or longer term resourcing commitments with vendors is also an option. And that can yield discounts for you. And that where I have certainly seen the, the real win-win start to come out of this. And it also tells a sad but important truth that strategic workforce planning itself is not intrinsically valuable unless the way you go about executing it is also enhanced and improved and made much more collaborative. And that speaks to an even broader truth that this is an ecosystem in which people analytics, workforce planning, recruitment, learning, development, procurement, all of those things, actually are massively more dependent on each other than perhaps they'd be prepared to let on our present. Who would you say are the critical stakeholders that need to be around the table for S-Distrigiate Workforce Planning to Work? Elizabeth Staplie of Arab Seagope in the phrase,
it takes a village. The more you think about it, I said, you know, I use the mill upon the analogy earlier on. Well, you know, don't be surprised then if actually you need quite a number of different people in from the get go. You absolutely need to have finance in there because you need to build a business case, but you need finance not only to help you build that business case, but to endorse it. And further, also, agree the ways in which you are going to attribute benefit to strategic workforce planning as opposed to something else. And HR traditionally is not terribly good at that, or it will go off and sort of, you know, divide its own figures. And I say the politics of this are that you ask finance to help you to develop that. Go with some ideas and then let them run with it because if it's backed by them, then it will get supported by others. Secondary is we've already mentioned some of them, L&D, talent acquisition, talent management reward. Let's also throw in now whoever is responsible for organization, design or work design because I'm going to have another beat of the lexicon, which is Ben. You know, we know we have, yeah, I like that. Yeah. All my own work that one. We, we AI is going to change the work. And therefore it's going to change the workforce. It's no longer going to be sufficient for us to simply backfill a role which becomes vacant. We've got to ask ourselves actually, does that role going forward? Well, does the work that that role performs still get performed in the same way? So that has to be an element of it. Strategy, you know, it took me a year to get an invite to regular group strategy meetings in one company. And do I contribute an awful lot to those meetings? No, did I get a lot from those meetings? Hell, yes. Which I was able then to start to fan out, because a lot of this is again, that synthesizing of stuff. It's not saying, oh, you know, you must do this, you must do that. But here's what I am hearing. Here's what I think it means for your, for our people, therefore put that on your radar as you continue to develop out your workforce strategy. Well, I suppose to David, how can you do strategic workforce planning if you don't involve strategy? Well, yes, there is this sort of, you know, call me old-fashioned, but sort of, you know, in one of the many definitions which is out there. It is, you know, is your workforce up for executing on its future business strategy? You know, what does the strategy mean? Strategy entails change of some sort or other. So focus on the change, you know, which parts of the workforce are changed? No, it just that happens at the moment. The heck of a lot of them are changing, but there are still sort of micro-segment within that. And I do believe very strongly in micro-segmentation of the workforce to sort of actually say, well, you know, this lot they're carrying on very much as they were. This bit is going to change. We need to do something about that. We need to respond to that. What is happening on the technology side to support strategic workforce planning? What's your view on that? I talk about SWP currently as being the Emerald City because we're seeing a lot of technology providers who are building yellow brick roads from their origination, whether that be people analytics or talent management or intelligence or market intelligence or design work design. You name it. These parts are now converged on strategic workforce planning because that gives an element of so what or perhaps more specifically so what next about the work that those technology providers currently do. There is a so what next also to the subsequent bits of workforce planning, which is the how and do you blend that mix of a bill by borough barbed more effectively. So we I'm very pleased to see companies like and this is by no means an exhaustive list and I apologize to those who I miss out. Crunch one model, Visia, all-view, Ingenitus, Nikesa, Tamant Neuron, Techwolf, Eightfold, Horsefly, Ingenitus. They're all sort of kind of circling around this and there are more besides you. Notice I didn't mention the really big ones. SAP, Oracle, Workday, and a plan but they're all now starting to say we need to have an updated vision for strategic workforce planning and you know the number one rated event at Unleash World in Paris was almost the last session which was hosted by Russell Klossk with the guys from Workday, Oracle, and SAP. It was the number one rated breakout. I went by the way, the one that Russell also hosted that I was in in Christian Vetter from town Neuron. That was rated number six. So SWP matters to the people out there and everyone is now starting to turn their attention to it but we've got to think of it as an ecosystem play and not just individual components. Not saying that it's wrong to have individual components but Stacey Harris has been talking about this for a long time from SAP and Insights. There's need for clustering of solutions. How should HRP finalistics and strategic workforce planning teams be thinking about AI right now? Well what they should be thinking most most of all is we need to be getting ahead of the curve because otherwise this stuff is going to be done to us. I think and you know I commend you for an excellent summary of the things HR needs to be thinking about next year that you published on LinkedIn recently. My going back to that was fortune favours the brave a bit HR need to actually step out of their comfort zone and be prepared to say we know stuff about this. You know we know what the dynamics are of the workforce. We know what the issues are within the workforce. These are the things which you know which AI is either going to help or it is going to impede and we're not doing that at the moment. It's an able and it's potentially a trap. It can improve analysis, scenario modelling, job architectures, skills, infrastructure and all of that sort of thing. But it's different work. HRP supposedly the experts in that we've got to start taking the lead otherwise what we will see. I don't mean this disrespectfully but it is natural for the business to evolve the augmentating it evolve the work that they already do. Others need to be saying what different could we be doing. Is it just going to be an augment or a re-engineer or is it going to be an innovator. So if we're not on the front foot AI becomes a cost cutting exercise and I think we're already seeing sort of plenty of evidence of that and a cost cutting exercise which front runs the benefit of AI on the assumption that they will come. One of the other topics that we hear a lot as well as AI perhaps not surprisingly because the two are very close to related is skill strategies. So you know where do you see skill strategies fitting in when the work itself is shifting so quickly you talked about this a little bit earlier. Do we need to talk about the work first and skill second and what's your thinking about that and how how can strategic work force planning help that and how would you let's say you were given an opportunity to do that today for an organization where would you start. Start with the work every single time. I feel for people who have invested so much in the skills based organization but I suspect that they are currently finding that that doesn't answer the questions about how AI is going to change the way their organizations work. Now that's not to say that all of that investment
is wrong, it's just that at this time, skills need to step back into the chorus line and allow the evaluation of work to come centre stage. We will need to know those skills and we need to keep on working on how we acquire better knowledge of people and their capabilities in order to qualify them for the work that we are going to need them to do in the future. But just at the moment, I think we need to sort of take one step up the ladder and look at it that way. And yes, hope then that our ability to gather information on what people not only can do now but have also been able to do in the past. And it's always challenged me as to why it is that we don't capture that data more effectively. But that is going to be key to being able to understand who is able to make switches across from one capability to another and who isn't. Very good. So David, so before we wrap up and we get to the question of the series, if we turn back to your book, the Strategic Workforce Planning Hamburg once again, what do you hope a CHRO or head of people analytics or head of workforce planning does differently the day after they finish reading the book? Firstly, thank you for buying it. If you have read it, if you've just borrowed it, what are you doing? My dog needs feeding. He's not going to like that. But then choose a starting point that anchored to a real business situation or decision, something that's got coughs or risk or delivery consequence and stop trying to implement SWP as a ground program. That's absolutely the first thing I would say. The second thing I would say is build a minimum viable end to end. Let's call it a product, but you can all equally call it an operating model. There are lots of governance, procedural, territorial blockers. You've got to know that for whomever you are doing this, that you can actually get from one end of the need to the other end of the outcome. And thirdly, credibility. Credibility is a product. What is it that's going to actually make this a credible approach and you will inevitably conclude that you have to collaborate across a very wide sphere and spectrum. Very good. So you listeners, if you want to know more about the truth, just your warehouse planning ham, but type that in the Google with David Edwards or go to Coking Page or get a Amazon and you'll be able to get the book there. So David, this is now, before we let people know how they can keep in touch for you as well. This is the question of the series because it's the first series of 2026. We're looking forward a little bit. And by all means, apply a strategic workforce planning lens to this if you wish. What will be the role of HR in 2030? Well, I think it has to be less about running HR and more about shaping how the organization works, which means it's got to be really credible in areas like work design. It's got to step up more, I think, in sort of how we understand the different markets in which we can find capability. And I think we need to ask ourselves very seriously whether the existing functional silos that exist in HR are truly fit for future purpose are not convinced. David, it's been an absolute pleasure, as always, to speak with you. I really wish you well with the strategic workforce planning hamburger. I've had the pleasure of reading it. I certainly recommend it. So listeners, can you let listeners know how they can find out more about you, more about the book? And you mentioned you also have a, I think you also have a LinkedIn newsletter as well. I do. It's called the Dark Artistry newsletter, available on LinkedIn and you can find me on LinkedIn as well. I think sort of rather relatively easy. And you can also catch up with me on David Edward, zestwp.com, which is the new website or
[email protected]. Fantastic. So lots of ways for people to stay in touch with you, David. Other than that, thank you very much for being a guest on the show. And I look forward to seeing you certainly at he panelists, it's world and unleash, I think, in Vegas. I wish you a miracle. I'll definitely see you there, my friend. Yes. Look forward to that. Good. David, thanks very much again for being on the show. Thank you, David. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you again, David, for joining me today. What a fantastic conversation. If you did enjoy today's episode, I highly recommend David's recently published book, The Strategic Workforce Planning Panbook, where he demystifies strategic workforce planning in a genuinely accessible practical and most importantly, human way. So everyone listening, I'd love to hear your reflections on the episode. What resonated with you most from the conversation with David, you can join the discussion on LinkedIn, just looked out for my post about this episode and share your thoughts. I always enjoy hearing what you take away from our conversations. And if you found the episode valuable, be sure to subscribe, rate and share it with a colleague or friend. It really helps us keep bringing these kinds of thoughtful, forward-looking conversations to HR leaders and professionals around the world. To stay connected with us at Insight 2-2-2, follow us on LinkedIn, visit Insight222.com and sign up for our bi-weekly newsletter at myhrfuture.com for the latest research, tools and trends shaping the future of HR and P-P analytics. That's all for now. Thank you for tuning in and we'll be back next week with another episode of the Digital HR Leaders podcast. Until then, take care and stay well.
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