'Resident Evil' Reactions | Button Mash

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I mean, not that, well, you know what, I'm not going to get into spoiler territory about the fates that befall Maxine and Carl, but they handle their fates in different fashions. We're also joined by Joshua Raccoon Rivera. Welcome back, Joshua. What's up? What's up? So the Maxine and Carl and Brian we're referring to are of course characters in the movie. We're discussing today. We are here to talk about the eighth release in the Resident Evil film franchise, the second reboot and the second movie simply entitled Resident Evil to say nothing of the many animated movies or the Netflix series called Resident Evil. This is the latest, possibly greatest Resident Evil movie adaptation, which is maybe not saying so much written by Zach Kregger and Shay Hatton directed by Kregger and starring Austin Abrams with Zach Cherry, Kayleigh Reese and Paul Walter Hauser in supporting roles. This movie hits theaters the day this podcast comes out. We have seen it. We have survived it and we are here to tell you about it. We will steer clear of major story spoilers, at least until the very end of the episode when we may warn you that we're about to enter a spoiler territory, but this isn't an especially spoilable movie, I would say. It's more about the ride. It's more about the experience. And it looks like people have enjoyed the experience that is people other than us. We will tell you what we thought in a second, but until now there has been no such thing as a critically acclaimed live-action Resident Evil movie, not sure I even needed the live-action qualifier there. Maybe I could have just said Resident Evil movie, but 2016's Resident Evil, the final chapter, which was, of course, not the final chapter, is sitting at 39% fresh at Rotten Tomatoes, which could also be described, I guess, as 61% Rotten. And this one, as we speak, reviews just dropped before we hit record. The numbers are still fluctuating, but it's at 97 on Rotten Tomatoes and 80 on Metacritic. Same range as Barbarian and Weapons Cregor's previous films. This is poised to blow away the biggest domestic opening in franchise history at the box office, which was after life's 26 million. This could come close to after life's total take domestically 60 million in its first weekend, although that movie did better internationally. So we have much to discuss about the making of this movie, what we thought of it, the response to it. Shall we just give our quick capsule summaries? We want to just say what we thought, or we join the chorus of praise, Joshua. Hell yeah. I am. Yeah. Yeah. My sort of like, you know, one liner on this is that it's kind of like what a frame he made in another evil dead, you know, not one of the, you know, newer, meaner evil deads, but like evil dead to like, it's like a, it's like a resident evil themed evil dead three if you don't count army of darkness as evil dead three. And that kind of conveys it, right? It's very, it's very goofy. It's very silly and it's very funny. But like also has respect for the horror fundamentals. Yeah. It is as much evil dead to as risen evil to the game that it's ostensibly inspired by Daniel. Yeah. I'm definitely in the same boat as Joshua here. I had such a fun time with this movie. And I think it's just a really fun, I know we'll get more into this as we talk about the film. But I mean, it's just such a fun progression, seeing this movie after Barbarian and after weapons. I feel like Zach Kregger is definitely one of the most exciting of incoming directors in Hollywood right now, especially in the horror space. And seeing him take on, I feel like this, I thought was was a lot of fun. So I had a great time in this movie. Yeah. I did too. So we have success of what our response was, but I'm with you. I had a lot of fun. It's a 90-ish minute movie. It just, it's a roller coaster ride. It just kind of starts and never stops and doesn't really slow down much. And there are a lot of laughs along the way. The only source of my slight disappointment, I guess, is just the unfair expectations that I placed on it. Because of how much I admired and enjoyed Barbarian and weapons. And Kregger warned me about this. In fact, he commented on this specifically, I think on the big picture of the Ringer podcast, when he said, and I quote, it's going to be not at all like Barbarian and weapons. So forewarned his forearm, I should not have been expecting anything like Barbarian and weapons, as it isn't really. And so the only reason why I left feeling just a little let down is because I love those movies so much and kind of just wanted more of that. And it's not quite that Kregger's quote continued on that same appearance. It's going to be a rock 'em sock 'em. It's for me to play and turn my brain off and just make an evil dead too, get crazy with the camera. That's exactly what it is. He delivered exactly what he intended to make here. I just think there's intentionally, I guess, a little less depth to it, a little less subtext to it, but the text is a ton of fun and we can talk about all of that. And Daniel, you mentioned a lot of the hype here, not to be too autourist about it, is coming from the fact that Zach Kregger is making this movie. And he's making it while he's in the midst of an incredible run. And so I tossed this prompt out to YouTube before we started recording. Is that Kregger the most talented adapter of a video game movie we've seen yet? Or at least the creative with the most juice at the time that they made a video game adaptation because coming off Barbarian and Weapons, both of which were incredibly critically acclaimed. Weapons was a huge box office success. Kregger is making the Steven Spielberg produced sci-fi film The Flood Next. That's coming in 2028. June Bug, Joshua's dog, makes the first appearance on this podcast, which is welcome, given some of the the dog cameos in the Resident Evil movie. This is much more awesome, but Kregger was attached to Resident Evil before Weapons came out. So I guess the hype train wasn't fully out of the station at that time. But according to The Hollywood Reporter, which just anointed him the, and I quote, top genre filmmaker working today, this movie, along with Weapons and The Flood, inspired furious, bit of worse. So can anyone else compare, can either of you think of anyone who made a video game adaptation at the top of their game with a game that had this high as ceiling as Kregger right now? I at least personally don't think so, and without with absolutely no disrespect to all the other directors that have made video game adaptations, I feel like the bar was was pretty low. Coming into this, I feel like Ben, you've written about this on the site too. We've definitely seen a lot of really good video game adaptations in previous years, especially compared to what we had a few decades ago. But a lot of that's been on the TV side as well. So I feel like especially with with just, you know, with the amount of juice that he does have right now, it's like kind of a wild confluence of just like big name, a lot like, especially often after Weapons last year. I feel like that was one of the biggest movies of 2025 and just coming on the heels of that and turning around a movie in any year like this, you know, I think it's just, it's brought a lot of hype into this film, rightly so. Yeah. I would like to spare a thought for Justin Kerzel, director of the Assassin's Creed film, which is not good at all. But that's kind of like a, you know, he's a filmmaker who occupies like this fundamental space between like middle-brown art house. He had a really well-regarded film two years ago, a year ago called The Order, about I think the hunt for a white, you know, like a white supremacist out camp outpost in the Pacific Northwest, that was like really, really good. Great performance from Mark Marin. Again, he doesn't operate in space where like, he accumulates, you know, the way that like, it does for Craig or in genre films. It was sort of like kind of a thing that everyone including he would likely forget, like, as opposed to Craig or who seems to be embracing that, you know, he's a hired hand here and one with the freedom to just play. Yeah. Yeah. Assassin's Creed definitely did not enhance the reputation, whereas it seems like Resident Evil is on track to only bolster Craig or reputation and add to the perception that he can do no wrong. And even if you sort of slapped the sometimes derogatory genre label on him, he just seemingly can't miss right now. And you know, maybe if you talk about some of the TV adaptations, especially the prestige aspiring ones like the last of us and Craig Mason coming off of Chernobyl, you could kind of come up with some comps. But yeah, in the movie space, it's it's really tough. And I wonder whether this marks a bit of a shift because historically video game movies definitely have been and this applies to Resident Evil specifically more Paul W.S. Anderson than Paul Thomas Anderson. No offense to Paul W.S. maybe some offense. But I wonder whether we are transitioning into a stage where you can get top talent to make video game adaptations because looking ahead, we do have a few coming down the pike where there are some pretty big name directors attached to projects like Alex Garland making the Elden Ring movie or Justin Lynn or Christopher McCory. So, you know, it has to do with maybe the fact that obviously the hot directors working now are in an age range where they played video games and grew up playing video games the way that sat Craig who's 45 grew up playing Resident Evil. So they're obviously familiar with the source material. And we've seen a lot of that now where it's not just like less license the IP and then we'll get people who know nothing about that IP to make the adaptation. Now you not only have producing partners who were involved with making the video games, but often the people writing and directing these movies have some sort of sentimental attachment to them, which is the case with Craig. This really is just a perfect pairing of creator and source material, not only because of Craig or his affection for it and because of his clear skill, but also just his sensibilities because Joshua, you were on the podcast and on theringer.com. What a great website earlier this year when Resident Evil Requiem came out. We talked about this then that you think that the humor of Resident Evil historically has been undervalued. That that's a key part of the secret sauce. Yes, it's horror, but it's also humor and it's the melding of those two things and who better to do that. Then Craig, who obviously has been an accomplished horror director, but came up in comedy too. So it's just, it feels perfect as if you had somehow engineered it in an IP lab or something, except that it seems to have come about much more organically and authentically than that. Yeah, I think what do you call it? A horror film is kind of like playing a prank on the characters and the audience and like a horror game is kind of like really playing a prank on the audience and characters. That's kind of how this movie feels, right? It's just sort of like an extended series of loony-tons things happening to this poor guy. But I don't know. I think I would love to hear what Daniel thinks about like just the idea of, because some people don't agree or some people think about it in a different way when it comes to like how funny Resident Evil is and if it's on purpose or not. And Daniel, you just played Resident Evil 2 remake in preparation for this movie, so it's exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I actually, I feel like probably my older brother had played Resident Evil, some of the Resident Evil games when I was growing up, but I was too scared, I guess at that point. So my first foray and Resident Evil 2 was just like a couple of weeks ago. And I just did not expect it to be so weird and like so quirky. Like the first time totally blanking on the name of the zombie figure, but the do the top hat that comes in at you. Oh, Mr. Rex. Yes, Exile is just like, you know, what the fuck? The second he comes on, it's just like, it's absolutely terrifying. I feel like I did the classic horror movie thing where I just like was frozen for a few seconds before I started shooting at his top hat. But I just did not expect any of that coming into it. And it was just, you know, between like Leon's like extremely corny lines that are so disarmingly funny. Like it is so weird. And like I, Josh, your piece was great about this. And it's just like, it's very true that it has a lot of that inherent quirkiness and comedy and at least the Resident Evil 2 that I played. So it really, like after playing that game, I was like, this makes so much sense for Zach Kregger. Yeah. And just a quick plot summary of this film. And there's only so much to say, really. But we do follow Brian played by Austin Abrams, who is a medical career. He gets an assignment, which he assumes is some sort of organ that he's bringing to a transplant or something. He has to bring it to the hospital in raccoon city. And hijinks and horror ensues. And along the way, we have a T virus outbreak that spills out from raccoon city. He encounters all sorts of zombies and infected creatures of all kinds and has to survive and has to take whatever the mystery thing that he is transplanting and transporting here to its destination. And transcend all manner of obstacles along the way. So it's really a one-hander. I mean, this is following Abrams and Brian. Almost exclusively, you have a few other cast members who just sort of flit in and out of his story. And most of them, you know, don't meet the happiest ends and don't stick around on screen for all that long. So this is really just following Abrams from start to finish. Abrams, of course, was in weapons. This feels like a breakout role. And I guess we're heading for a fall of Abrams to some extent because, of course, he's also the star of whale fall coming next month, hotly anticipated. He's a scuba diver who gets stuck inside a whale. And I have not seen whale fall yet. I can't get away too, but presumably aside from the whale, not exactly an ensemble story either. So he's probably commanding a lot of that screen time. And he does a great job here just being personable and relatable and funny. And that's the thing. I am famously a coward when it comes to video games and movies, which is why my Resident Evil playing experience has been somewhat limited, though I did greatly enjoy Requiem earlier this year. However, I really like Kregor's movies because of the humor because the humor just adds enough levity to distract from the horror. The thing about this movie is it's really not scary at all. Or at least I didn't find it scary. I mean, I was already to be just clinging to Daniel's arm in the seat next to me and and squealing like Austin Abrams does during much of this movie. But I really didn't have a hard time with it because I would say there's plenty of body horror and there's plenty of gore. But as far as just pure unsettling stuff, there are a couple scenes that come to mind. But the creepiness that was present in barbarian and weapons isn't so much here because of that evil dead tone that you were referring to Joshua. So even compared to Resident Evil games where I guess you're more immersed in the experience just because you're handling the controller, there are jump scares certainly, but genuine scares. I mean, would you say that anything really rose to that level for you, Joshua? I think so. I think I think mostly there's like the dread of the first encounter that you feel, right? Because you know it's going to go bad for him. You know it's going to run into zombies or monsters or some sort, right? Like you're going into this. And like they play the lead up to that first encounter really well. And it's kind of nerve-racking. But like once they pop that seal, you know, like it's pretty much just like a roller coaster. It's just really, really fun. Yeah. Daniel, I didn't hear you screaming next to me either. So there were a lot of laughs. But yeah, did you feel the same way? I appreciate you not calling me out for the jump scare of the dog popping through the barn because I just like totally shot about my seat. Yeah. They definitely had a few like good like classic jump scares. I feel like, but I do agree with you both where I wasn't like as creepy as some of the other ones as like barbarians and weapons. But there was a lot of like really good imagery I thought, just like especially they showed some of it in just like the trailers leading up to the movie too. But like the like conjoined zombie, like the arms like coming out of the house for the first time, I thought it was like an awesome shot. But yeah, I think because it leans so this, especially this movie, leans so much into the humor, it does take away from that a little bit. But they really do go hand in hand with just the, I feel like the tension that builds up from just like we like just like going through a dark tunnel and opening up an MTRV like all of those moments still like really build up the tension in a really great way that just makes the laughs like come out so much like harder. It's like such a such a great relief of stress, the combination of horror and comedy and and and craggers just like so good at that. Yeah, and it's a fine line to tread and he evidently according to his own commentary was maybe on the wrong side of that line at one point because he talked about and told the Hollywood reporter that he changed the movie after test screenings. He said, I learned that people really like the movie, but they thought it was too funny. So over the course of my testing, I stripped out as much of the jokes as possible. I then found that not only did the audience enjoy the movie more, but I also liked the movie a lot more. A little bit of humor goes a long way in a horror movie, and there's not a single joke I took out of this movie that I miss. So I would love to see the initial, not to, to hashtag release the Kregger cut. This is the Kregger cut to be clear, but the initial pre-test greeting cut, the joky cut, because a little bit of humor goes a long way. There's, there's a lot of humor in this movie, even in the final cut. And I can imagine how any more than that might have thrown the balance off of it, because it verges on sort of that over the top evil dead tone, almost like a parotic or spoofie sort of take on this thing. And the genre conventions, you know, when he has the first encounter with the infected, there's almost like a shone of the dead's aspects to it, you know, he doesn't really realize what's happening, just thinks that someone is maybe feeling under the weather a little bit, not realizing the full extent of what is happening here. And I could imagine that being taken so far that it would disrupt any of the stakes or suspense. And ultimately, I think it does achieve the right balance, but I think that was probably a good impulse, because if there were way more jokes than this initially, a lot of the humor just comes from the running commentary that Abrams is making here, which is I guess somewhat video game like, right? I mean, this is not Leon doing wise cracks, but it is not unlike a video game protagonist who's kind of talking to themselves and by extension the player, or maybe you while you're playing a game by yourself and trying to not be too terrified. So I think I think it nailed it. I don't know. Would either of you have wanted more or less humor, or was this just yeah, chef's kiss? I think they nailed it. I think it was a big part of why it works is that like instead of making you scared of a thing, it leans into Brian being scared of that thing and him being scared is funny. Whereas, you know, like a lot of the stuff, it's like a very normal fear. It's a dread what's behind the other side of the door, but then when Brian is dreading what's on the other side of the door, right? Then you're laughing at him and he's sort of like, it's very inviting in that way as gross as this movie is and this movie is really gross, you know? Like we mentioned the body heart before. It's pretty intense. It's high. But like it says, abiding as that kind of movie can be and Junberg is very upset about it. Yeah. Junberg's remembering the Delberman scene, which is probably quite painful for the K9 audience. One of the things that I'm interested to see is how people who are super interested in like Resident Evil War are responsive because I think a lot of the jokes are built around not really caring about the lore that much, you know? Like when umbrella comes up, it's kind of a gag. There are like a dozen sight gags that involve things from the video game that nobody draws attention to, but like it's like objectively funny to run into, you know, a padlock and not be able to shoot it. But that's also like a video game trope, right? I really admire the way that the jokes that many of the jokes work if you have no idea that he's riffing on something and also work if you do. I don't know. What were you thinking, Dan? No, I'm definitely on the same page as you there. I think it's just right. If anything, I would say I would have liked a little bit more of the horror in it because I am a fan of horror movies and I loved just, I feel like Barbarian and weapons had really a perfect balance of it as well. But the grotesque nature of how much of what we see in this movie, like the body horror as you're talking about Joshua, like that, there's so much of that. And I feel like that's what's perfect in a zombie movie, especially, you know, like Barbarian and weapons obviously aren't that. So like he leans into it in a different way in this movie. And I feel like that that works so well. Like both of you have talked about how, you know, you got a little bit of the perspective of Brian here. You get a lot of the perspective of Brian here and that really, it really does capture the experience. At least I don't know about, well, I know the answer for Ben has been to avoid horror games, but I don't know about you, Joshua. But for me, that's how I'm playing a lot of these these games where I'm just like, oh my god, like I guess I have to go in here to find what's in that room. But I'm just like shit, like I just really, I really don't want to. And it really is exactly what Brian is. So it's just like he's the perfect avatar for you in this. Yes, exactly. Yeah, it's it's lacking the spookiness, the unsettling nature of weapon and barbarians. Just that sort of, I guess, you know, walking dead station 11 to the monsters were the monsters, you know, were the the true evil, right? Like what does this say about human nature? That kind of thing is is not as present in this movie. It's more about the gore and the guts. And there are a couple moments where it supplies the the pathos of, you know, you slow down for a second, and it's not just about splattering some tentacle monster all over the wall, but it's about the actual victims of the infection, whether it be a dog or a child, let's say, where you actually do feel for the people involved here, but then that's kind of lightened undercut by just blowing whatever the victim's brains out is in the like most gory way possible, which is sort of almost a humorous resolution to it, or like, you know, Brian himself kind of being like, that just happened. I just blew out the brains of insert victim here, you know, so he's like clearly feeling bad about it, but you don't kind of linger, right? There's no time to process like the survivor's guilt or anything. It's just it's on to the next set piece. And there are some excellent set pieces here. And that's something that the movie does well, maybe in a mini spoiler section at the end, we can talk about the actual finale of the film, but some of the encounters here, whether it be yet the initial encounter in the car with the first infected or the dog or the child or there's a scene in raccoon city where Brian's just sprinting down a street and infected are launching themselves off the rooftops around him and splattering, which evidently Austin Abrams had kind of a close encounter with a blood bag at one point during the production of this movie that verged on being dangerous. You do kind of feel that here because it's just these these flesh bags that are just dropping like bombs all around him. And then of course it culminates in this sort of scaling a skyscraper and all of the obstacles that come with stairwells and elevators as you might expect. And and gradually the enemies including some familiar ones from the games do really ramp up in size and horror quotients. So I like a lot of that. I mean, they do just keep raising the bar with the encounters and it starts in a really restrained way. And then suddenly you're in an infected city where it's just all health has broken loose. Yeah, at least for me, like I think that's part of like what I really loved about the movie in general, too, where it's just like, you know, you're talking about how you're kind of progressing through it and like it's getting harder in that way. Like it really just captures the spirit, especially of resident evil. And like Craig has talked about this in interviews, too, where it's just like, you know, first you got to find the gun and then you got to find the bullets and then you level up to the shotgun, you know, like it really just captured that in a way that I thought was really, really fun from an adaptation standpoint. Yeah, I think we should talk about the lore or lack thereof and what this actually does pull directly from the games. But I think that's the main way in which it is a video game adaptation. And it's true to the roots is this commitment to depicting the playing experience of someone in a game. And there are times where I guess you could say it approaches gimmickery. I know that that cragger has asked interviewers, did this work for you essentially, you know, maybe a little bit of self-consciousness. There are some first person shots for instance, obviously we tend to think of resident evil as a primarily third person franchise, but there are some first person detours and we get that here, you know, not quite to the do movie level or some movies that have been just like all first person, you know, what if first person shooter, but movie. But there are occasional just little detours into first person perspective. But then it's also really the commitment to trying to depict the third person video gaming experience. And you know, faster pace, I guess, than in a lot of traditional resident evil games. But that kind of the camera is right behind your shoulder or something, you know, when Brian looks one way, the camera swivels to look that way so that you're kind of getting that perspective cragger has talked about how a lot of horror movies, it's just, you know, someone's walking down a dark hall and maybe their faces lit up by a flashlight or something and you can't really see their surroundings. And that can obviously add to the creep factor, but what he seemed to be going for here is actually being highly aware of Brian's surroundings because in a video game, you're constantly scanning, okay, where do I go next? You know, there's a part where he gets trapped in a barn and there's a ladder and that needs to sort of a site gag, which is clever. But then also he's looking around and he's like, okay, wait, what if I can jump on this hook that's hanging here? You know, it's very video gamey in that sort of hear my surroundings, here's the way I go. you know, if it's kind of a linear action game and you're you're being propelled along this path the way that Brian is. So I appreciate it that it does feel like I'm over my head. I'm out of my depth. I'm just trying to go from point A to point B and it's more or less transpiring in real time and so that I think was really faithful to the video game experience. What did you think, Joshua? Yeah, no, I also appreciate like that sense of geography really, which is also just like good like shot composition, right? So like the audience always knows where we are and and like Kregger's, you know, this isn't keeping with, you know, his previous two horror movies, right? He makes sure you know exactly what is in a room or in the frame. So, you know, you're paranoid about it, you know? Yeah. I don't want to misquote him, but if I recall correctly, when he was first announced that he was doing this. He had said something like, do you do I remember this quote? He had said something to the effect of like, there's like this tiny little thing, you know, like a note or something in one of the games that has like lingered in his brain forever and he kind of wanted to make a thing riffing on that. And like, I don't have an encyclopedic, you know, knowledge of Resident Evil lore. Like, I know the story of all the main games. I've played most of them. I couldn't tell you what was in every note, but it does feel like he read a note in the game and thought that is really funny and goofy. And like, I got for the life of me, I can't, you know? Yeah. Yeah. They give me what it might be, you know? Like, maybe like one of the, like the clothes I get is like some of the Lisa stuff and the remake of the first game. That's more sad. I don't know. Are you a huge Resident Evil head Daniel? This is just you're still going through it for the first time, right? Yeah, so going through it for the first time. Like Resident Evil 2 was my first, that the remake was my first experience of it. And like, I loved it. And I think I'll probably try. I don't know. Maybe you guys have advice from, well, I guess Ben, you haven't really played much either, but I know like like Resident Evil 4, I think I want to try out maybe next. I guess both of you guys liked Requiem, so I'll probably probably go for that. But yeah, I mean, I definitely came into this kind of kind of fresh as well. But even just after playing Resident Evil 2 in the way that it's lined up with the timeline of it and just like the world of Raccoon City. And again, just like the general, like the vibe of what the experience of playing it is like, and just like the problem solving it. Like the padlocks that you were talking about, Joshua, like I just, I remember you're just like, you're going through the police station and you're just like, oh my god, all right, now I gotta find the diamond key. Now I gotta find, like, where's the, where's the heart key? I gotta play the next playthrough for that. So it's just like, they really captured that sentiment, like that feeling, like really, really well in a fun way. Do we hydrate it skin? That still feels like your skin. Try new groupie setting mist from Mavley, New York. Maybe it's Mavley. Yeah, it's a, it's a really good running bit throughout the movie. Yeah, not another padlock at the worst possible time. But you don't need to know anything about Resident Evil or Resident Evil or our colleague, Joanna Robinson, really like the movie. Don't think she's a huge Resident Evil head. So you can just come in cold and appreciate this like any other horror or horror spoof film. Now we should talk a little bit about the gamer response, the, the focal subset of the Resident Evil fanbase response to this and how Kregger has navigated that. But I do appreciate that it's, it's kind of taking the heightened stories of Resident Evil and just saying like, what about the banal mundane mechanics of like, how does something get to the evil lab where the T virus vaccine is produced or whatever or the actual T virus was released from? It's like, is there a medical career who is transporting this through all of this chaos? And this is his story. So I think that, you know, maybe we can kind of trace the timeline of Kregger quotes here because the trailer came out this spring. And maybe Kregger got himself into trouble a little bit. He's talked about how he has underestimated the response that he received to this, although he's also said, maybe he was naive to think that it would be anything different. But back in April, he said, basically, my rule for this movie was to just try and make a movie that felt like my experience of playing the game that could live in the world of Resident Evil. I feel like this movie takes place alongside the events of Resident Evil 2. I like to think that everything that's going on in the police station could be happening in this world. This is just another dude on another mission on the other side of town and what's going on with him. So a lot of people kind of took that literally, I think, and said, Oh, it's a Resident Evil 2 direct adaptation or at least everything that happened in Resident Evil 2 is happening as this movie is taking place. And then when people saw the trailer, it was, wait, that game takes place in the 90s. Why does Brian have a smartphone? Why is it snowing in the movie? It's not snowing in the game. And so a couple months later in July, Kregger comes along and says, it takes place in the snow and in 2026. That's why he has an iPhone because I took Liberty used to tell a story. I wanted to tell it, make the movie look the way I wanted it to look. I am not doing exactly a one-for-one Resident Evil 2 adaptation. There are differences between this movie and the game. So I just want to acknowledge that. I don't think it makes the movie any worse. I think it looks really fucking cool to have a horror movie set in the snow. I don't see enough of those. I like it a lot. The snow is in aesthetic decision. If the barrier of entry is whether I do a one-for-one port, then I guess in that regard, I have failed. But I think the movie is stronger for it. And I would agree. But this didn't quell some of the uprising out there. And of course, social media makes everything worse. I mean, that's just a blanket statement. But specifically in this case, I guess, because it elevates the loudest, most aggrieved voices. And I think probably plenty of Resident Evil fans are very happy to have this thing get the Zach Kregger treatment and to take some creative license. But people have continued to say, this is not my Resident Evil. This is not Resident Evil enough. And so, as recently as this month, he said, there are different kinds of Resident Evil fans. There are fans like me who love the experience of playing the games and think there's never been a movie that has represented what it feels like to play Resident Evil. That's how I categorize myself as a fan. Then there are fans of the games who specifically love the lore and the characters and the nitty-gritty details of the backstory. But my movie is not spending a lot of currency on those things. And that's certainly true. I mean, do we want to talk about just anything that is actually present here from the narratives of the games? Or there are a lot of easter eggs, as you said, Joshua, right? And it's not in the really ostentatious look at me. I'm doing the Assassin's Creed jump into a hay bale or whatever kind of thing. But there's a lot of stuff that if you played Resident Evil games do recognize. So what stood out to you in that category, Joshua, whether from Resident Evil 2 or just Resident Evil 2 franchise? There's very little, what it does kind of do if you want it to. Because again, the movie's not very well-versed about any of this. But if you have a question about what did Umbrella do to try to get this under control? Did they just not care at all? You could see this movie as making an argument for answering that question. Was it really? Because I don't know. You play these games and this company gets, let's this virus get out of control. And it's just sort of like, well, does it really benefit them to have things get so bad that we're could recommend City has to get nuked in the third game or whatever? That's kind of there. But for the most part, I don't know. I don't really care for that stuff to be super prominent. It could be fun if there was a character from the games making a cameo or something, but I don't need it. And yeah, yeah, it's mostly just sort of like if you are going to bring this stuff up, I kind of just want to know what sort of fun spin you're going to do with it. And that's kind of what happens for me with Umbrella, you know? Where'd you spat, Daniel, if anything? Yeah, I think Joshua is right on that. I definitely agree. I think something like having just played it, I noticed like a few parallelists, I guess you could say, like for example, like in the opening of the movie, like the first zombie that you you see is like, you know, you're hit on the road, like the zombie gets hit on the road and like the car stops. Like that's exactly the way that President evil too opens. And there's like a couple of other things like that, like towards the end, which I won't spoil. So I it felt like those were like direct like kind of illusions to some of the events that were happening in that respect. But since it's happening with different characters and let's just like, you know, it's just different. And I appreciate it that like I really like love the idea that he's just tried to still be him, like Zach Kregor's tried to still be himself within this space and like just use this as a sandbox. There is one Easter egg. I want to put out there, you know, to the listeners to get at me, J.M. Rivera, that blue sky, that social, if if you agree. But there's a point where Brian hits an elevator button a bunch of times. And I think that sound sample is the hit a button sound in the Resident Evil video games. That is an incredibly minor detail. And like it amused the shit out of me. And I only came to mind because he hits that button a lot of times. And I'm like, that sounds really goddamn familiar. So if you agree, let me know right into the right bother Ben and make Ben saw me, you know, Bruce came in at gmail.com. I'll forward to Joshua. Yeah, that's that's a pretty deep pull. But yeah, I mean, there's lots of little shout out. Some of which were in the trailer. So people have already discussed these things. But the green herbs from RE4 are here. There's a kind of funny moment where Brian breaks into what seems like sort of a safe room and sees a typewriter there. As if it's a safe point, right? And they don't really winger on that. But the Resident Evil fans in our audience in the theater definitely that got a little laugh from them. And then the padlocks and the dogs and the tentacle creatures, kind of like the the RE4 lust block us sort of tentacle creatures. And then I guess just the general scouring the environment, rummaging through drawers to find ammo because you're short on shotgun shells or whatever. There's a lot of that happening here, just the general scrounging. And you know, you're going back to a recouncity after all these years as we did in Requiem 2. But just not a ton of overlap. And honestly, not a lot is lost there. It's it's funny that people are so precious about mirroring the games. You know, it's it's really kind of an embarrassing backlash. Can you even call it a backlash if it precedes the release of the film? It's almost like it's like Wolverine where there's like three backlash cycles just before the game actually comes out, some of which were maybe more justified in Wolverine's case than in Resident Evil's. But you know, there's the whole like hashing out what everyone thinks of this just based on footage or trailers or gifts or whatever. And then there's the actual film and the response to that. But it's not as if the lore of Resident Evil is is really the strength of that series. I mean, there is obviously a strange charm to it. But it's really tough to tell a coherent recounting of Resident Evil as we discussed on the Requiem episode because unlike the film franchise which gets repeatedly rebooted, they haven't really done that to the games. And so it's just incredibly convoluted and joined together like the conjoined body monsters in this movie. And so I mean, I get that people are attached to Jill or Leon or whoever, not physically literally attached, but emotionally. But you know, Craig or set as much just like those stories have been told in the games. So I didn't feel like I needed to retell them. But also do we need to see that? Right? I mean, you know, is that the strength of Resident Evil? It's part of the mix, the soup, the ingredients, but it's more about the gameplay and and this movie mirrors the gameplay. So as someone who is probably more well-versed in Resident Evil lore than Daniel and I are, is that more or less how you felt? You know, Joshua, do you do you want to see the Leon movie? Yeah, I mean, that's kind of it, right? The fact that all right. So horror games slow you down. So the point where you have to like do things much slower than you would in other games and also try again more than you might in other games, right? And and do a lot of repetition. Oh, I forgot this key. Oh, this goes over here and you've got to like do all these things that you dread. And you spend all this time thinking more about the stories of these games. So I completely understand why people are so attached to these games and these characters. And also, you know, Leon has Kennedy, one of the hottest guys ever in a video game. You know, like, I mean, like if there was a man in the real world that looked exactly like that. Yeah, put him on the freaking screen, dude. I think, you know, again, when you when you step back from that, right? After you recover from the shock of Mr. X, you're like, oh, that is a guy in its trench coat and Fedora, you know, like coming at me. This is stupid. So, again, again, I sympathize, there's a lot of fun in putting those stories together. It's something to focus on when you are scared or when you're done being scared, you know? And there is something admirable, even if it's a little foolish, and Capcom's willing to refuse a little reboot, right? And their willingness to find a way to connect every subsequent game. And so what happens before, even if it means rewriting what happened in those games entirely. Yeah, yeah. And it's very, I mean, you know, when is there not some sort of toxic gamer backlash or pre-lash to anything and everything. But part of me is like the, you know, fortunately, we don't have to talk so much, we don't have to do the Roger Ebert debate and news games can be art, you know, we're past that point. And even fortunately, past the point of arguing that video game movies or adaptations can be good and successful because we have seen so many examples of that now. But there is still part of me who remembers being in the trenches for those debates who's just like guys. And it probably is almost exclusively guys, just like stop bringing shame upon us as a, as a community. It's like we get that cragger. This incredibly talented, accomplished filmmaker to make the movie. He's one of us. He loves the games. He plays the games. Not that I think you need to pass some sort of purity test to direct a video game movie. But like he passes regardless. Do you have to make a spectacle of yourselves and dissuade maybe the next talented filmmaker from waiting into the sewer, the muck of making a video game adaptation and suffering the barbs of people on social media who are getting mad about stuff. There is a sewer sequence in this movie, by the way. So there's another Resident Evil trope and RE2 trip. But yeah, like is RE2 such a narrative masterpiece that we need to go beat for beat and retail and not tamper with that story? I don't think so as highly acclaimed as the game itself is. And cragger, he's described it as an apology tour. I think that's kind of, you know, tongue in cheek because he's sort of saying sorry, not sorry more than anything. And he has nothing to apologize for. But he did say recently, I think I was naive. I thought fans of these games like me wouldn't be thrilled that somebody was coming along and turning Resident Evil into a survival horror movie. I was like, that's great. I did not really appreciate the sentiment that we've been waiting forever for Leon's story. And I appreciate that and I'm sorry that's not the story I'm bringing. I get it. I understand the frustration. He's going out of his way. He's bending over backwards here to Tepander and sort of feel like I see you and I understand you and I appreciate you. He said, I understand it so well because I haven't seen the earlier Resident Evil movies because they don't look like the Resident Evil that I love. So how could I be frustrated with fans who have that same attitude? My only hope is that they'll see the movie regardless of their skepticism or their disappointment that I'm not telling some of the stories that the games tell so well. And they will feel seen when they do watch the movie and they will recognize all of the love for the games that are in this movie because it is there. This is not me just telling a story and slapping Resident Evil on it so I can get a budget. This is me telling a Resident Evil story. I understand the resistance I do because I have it myself. It is coming from a true place of love. And I think there's a lot of truth to that. And if these people actually do get tickets and go see the movie and obviously the buzz and the word of mouth will help with that. Hopefully they will be one over if we even want to win them over at this point. But you know, you've probably seen more of the previous Resident Evil movies than Zach Greger has Joshua or than I have for that matter. How would you compare and contrast here? Because these are very different approaches to this source material and maybe a more successful one, but also in some ways a less faithful one, but in other ways maybe a more faithful one. Right. Yeah, those movies, there's been a funny sort of reconsideration of them. I don't think anybody would call them like great, but like people are sort of more appreciative of like what they're doing, which is just sort of like a very schlocky thing, right? There is that essay calling Paul W. Sannister and a vulgar author, I think. And they're like very like workmen like their mechanical Milla Yolovic basically just sort of like willing those movies to work basically on her own at some points, you know, like, but they they kind of do, you know, they're not super, they don't center the the game's characters, but they do their part to sort of like work their way through like game set pieces and and realize some of these characters. It does it madly, but also I would argue there's not a whole lot to improve on because it is all ridiculous and and what happens is when you sort of like have these movies that, you know, that that don't have like the sort of like it's hard to know what you're looking for, right? Because everything is so patently ridiculous. that the ridiculousness is just like when it's made plain in front of you. It's kind of uncomfortable. And that's kind of what those movies are. But yeah, I don't, I don't, I think, I think they're fun. I think they're great, you know, if you're like sleepy and like, or maybe a little buzz, and you just need something to throw on, like throwing a Resident Evil movie, man, those are, those are a solid time. But it's, it's sort of like the, be careful what you wish were kind of thing, right? Where it's just like, it's better to see someone do their own thing and fail at that than to come into your house and, you know, like do a bad, make a bad thing with like the stuff that you like, you know, like, so yeah, that's kind of, that's kind of how I feel about it. Yeah. And those movies do have crossover characters from the games who appear in various movies, Claire and Jill and Ada and Chris and even Leon and some of the antagonists and everything. But the central figure is Alice. And I guess one difference is that Alice is more of a badass than Brian, right? She's like, you know, she has some experience with weapons, and Crager has experience with weapons. But Brian does not. Brian throughout the movie is, is keeping up a steady stream of like, I don't know what I'm doing here. And given that, he does remarkably well, by the way, I mean, he's constantly professing that he has no experience with guns. He can't shoot like, all of his experience comes from video games. There's like a little bit of a winking fourth wall breaking aspect there. But he's quite resourceful. And, you know, even if his aim isn't entirely true, he's, he's a survivor here. He does way better than I would if I were just dropped into Reckon City with nothing but video game experience. So, but there's a little bit of that kind of clerks. I wasn't even supposed to be here today aspect to it. That's not so much present in the other Resident Evil films where the protagonist is more equipped to take on these enemies. And so, Brian makes a good proxy for the audience. Did either of you feel like the the frequent illusions to video game playing were a little on the nose? Or did you, did you like that? Or was it too much for you? I thought it was a little bit on the nose like some, because they do it a lot. Most of the time it did work for me because it's just very relatable. And I think that's the main thing with Brian. It's the whole experience of him trying to survive this absolutely ridiculous ordeal. Is that it's just relatable. He's just a guy that's just that he's a glorified like postmates delivery guys. Yeah, I think he says at one point in the movie. He's like, why do I have this? Like, I'm like, you know, so it's like, I feel like in that sense, it like it, it works a lot of the time. And I think like that's one of the really the big things that set apart this this movie with this movie with the other movies is just like the other ones lean more towards that action. And this really leans really, really far into the comedy. And it just makes a lot more sense for his at Gregory in the sense. Yeah. And Craig said, I feel like I've been on somewhat of an apology tour. I feel like I'm running for office trying to get these people not to call me a larper. Now judging by the response in our theater, Daniel, because we went to a press screening, but I think it must have been a mixed press in public screening because we had some some Resident Evil diehards in our theater who are applauding when the text Resident Evil appeared on screen. That sort of movie goer. And those people for the most part seem to be pretty happy. They were doing the, you know, point at the screen decaprio me and the clapping every time there was an Easter egg, right? And and maybe the ending response was a bit more muted. We can talk about that. But they the customers seem satisfied from what we could tell the Resident Evil fans were not revolting and throwing things at the screen. I feel like every time there was one of those like like side gags or Easter egg like like the typewriter, for example, there was a lot of like ooze and ayes from from from the audience or like some some some cheer. So I mean, that makes sense, you know, there is a really really big audience for this. And I think that was it was fun to see it in this kind of it probably had to have been split between press and unless yeah, there were some some press members who were not showing the typical decorum. But I would think yeah. So let me ask you this then should this have been a Resident Evil movie or did it need to be a Resident Evil movie since we're saying that it's it's not following the game's beat for beat or anything. And Craig was very explicit about that. And he actually said on the big pick, this is a story that I would have wanted to write whether I got the IP or not. I just happened to be able to have these Resident Evil people be down. So I get to play in that sandbox. And there was part of me when this was announced that thought, oh boy, we have another really interesting original filmmaker and screenwriter who's getting absorbed into the franchise machine, you know, and I want him to keep doing his own thing. So do you guys feel like there was any part of his originality or vision that gets compromised because he's playing in someone else's sandbox to an extent. And with this, it worked just as well if it was a zombie movie that had zero IP basis whatsoever. Like, are you glad that this was a Resident Evil movie, Joshua? I am. And it's like, it's kind of for cynical reasons, right? Like, it allows you to like lower expectations a little bit, you know, in a way that I think I guess benefits the experience as weird as that sounds, right? Where it's just sort of like, you know, Zach Ragger, I would be disappointed in Zach Ragger's work here if this wasn't, you know, if this was an original film because Barbarian and weapons both have like very, like compelling, you know, social issues like baked into it, right? Like Barbarian starts with that really fraught circumstance of like, oh, you know, a man and a woman got double booked at an Airbnb. That's uncomfortable, you know, like how do we navigate that? Right. And, you know, weapons similarly. And I guess like more easily spoiled, you know, a man is. And so I'd kind of be like, well, what is he getting at here? You know, like, I have some notions, you know, like, I don't think it's about nothing, but it's not necessarily about much. Okay. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about that sort of interrupt. You can resume your thoughts on this, but you could probably classify Barbarian and weapons as elevated horror. I guess that sort of a perchance just term. It's like, it's horror, but critics liked it too, which is very rare, frankly, even with successful horror movies to get good reviews. And so, you know, the Wikipedia entry for Barbarian, for instance, has a themes and interpretations subsection. And both these movies just have a lot of allegory and a lot of, oh, this is really about that. And there's a lot of foreboding in those films. And so I think it helps that this is a Resident Evil movie. So if you have any inkling of what Resident Evil is, you kind of get where we're going and you can sort of see him laying the groundwork to get there. But then when I left the theater, I was kind of thinking, well, that was a fun thrill ride. But was there some text? Was there significance? Was there something more substantial to it? Not that there needs to be. But do you anticipate a themes and interpretation subsection on the Resident Evil Wiki? Like, what would that be? I mean, you know, Brian, aside from the moment to moment, how am I going to stay alive here? He kind of has a running dialogue with his girlfriend. We gather is pregnant. And he is kind of equivocating on whether they should keep the baby. And we get the sense that he is maybe a bit immature and is afraid to step up here. And maybe there's growth in his character as he confronts the circumstances that he faces in this film. I don't know whether you think that's saying something in a larger sense. Again, like, I don't want to place too much on this movie just because of its creator. But I wonder whether you emerged from this thinking that there was more to it than that was fun. Not a lot, right? Like, I think there is like a very funny and cynical read about it. That is sort of like, you could read it as, I mean, you could read it as literally as like a stand-in for gamers, right? And if you do, if you take that seriously and run it throughout, it has a pretty dim view of people who play video games. Yeah. I don't know if you could say the response of something through the movie. Exactly. I don't think that's necessarily what is happening. I think he's purely interested in that for comedy reasons, more than, you know, like, thematic ones. I think as it goes on, right? Like, there's also like a very like superficial read about like, gig work, right? Where like, you know, he has that post-based line of the Daniel mentioned earlier. But there's also like, again, this is much more, I'm reaching for a comparison that's like much more elevated than like, what this movie is doing. But there's like a little bit of like, Robocop kind of reticulismus, right? So like, when you meet the umbrella people who show up, right? They are, I think a lot about how, you know, like, there's a lot of controversy about, you know, like, [BLANK_AUDIO] stuff. And a thing that happens with companies like these tech companies, they hire a lot of bright talent who might be aware that they're doing something bad, you know, and scrambling to do something about that, right? And this is kind of a movie about that where like people with immense power realize they fucked up and are like far sickly trying to do something, you know, puts two face back in the two, they can't really do. So there is something there, but that's kind of just sort of like, you know, get high after midnight and you know, talk about, you know, a bit kind of themes. And it's not like going to support like, I don't know, and I say the themes and inspirations, you know, Wikipedia section, you know? Yeah, it's yeah, it's about the dangers of gain of function research and it's a pro pro vaccine sentiment in this movie, you know, probably that's reaching or it's like every other zombie or mutation movie, but I don't know, Daniel, did anything stand out to you about alternative readings of the film or just whether you're glad that it's a reasonable movie or whether that was really irrelevant to you. Because again, it's it's not as if he needed a name to get this movie made. It's given that Zach Kregger himself is a name and a brand now. Yeah, I mean, at least in terms of the approach of it all, like whether or not he should have mean more into the Resident Evil franchise, like just speaking to the pre-movie backlash of it all, it's just like, it's, it's feels so silly to me where it's like I, Ben, when you said that, this was the eighth Resident Evil movie at the top of the podcast, I was like, damn, they made seven other Resident Evil movies, like, oh my god. So it's just like, and like they did these, like I didn't even know that they made one in 2021 that had like, like Claire, that had, like they had all of these people and like we just did this like five years ago. So it's like this, when you have somebody of Zach Kregger's quality, like you of its caliber, like you you wanted to do what he, what he does. And I think just the fact that he was able to put his own stamp, but still capture the experience of playing Resident Evil, like we've talked about is what made this such a fun movie and such such a fun take on a video game adaptation. Now, like I do, I do wonder a little bit, like what it would have looked like if it was purely a Zach Kregger movie, like you were talking about Joshua and like I think because of that, you can like lower your expectations a little bit for it. And that's not to say that this, this movie wasn't, wasn't really fun because I really did enjoy it. But I do wonder, and like I know we won't get to spoilers too much yet, but like I do wonder if like some things would have been different about the ending of the movie without like the umbrella of it all, if he doesn't have to be within the space of Resident Evil. But I mean overall again, it's just like I feel like he still was able to have his own imprint on this, which is like a lot of times when you see a lot of big directors come into franchises like that's just completely lost and that's always a shame. Yeah, but his personal touch is not lost here. It feels as distinctive as his previous films are true to his style. I enjoy that he has this early Wes Andersonian Proclivity for for one classic rock needle drop per film, right? It's like Ricky Tickie Taffy and Donovan in Barbarian or Beware of Darkness in in Weapons, which was great. The George Harrison song or here it's animal farm by the kinks playing over the credits. And you know, I wonder what his future is. Obviously we know his direct future in the movie he's making next, but will he get captured by the franchise machine or will he become the machine himself because his movies are so successful that they spawn franchises? And he has addressed this. He said, I've never been approached by another franchise. Maybe I have, but it would never get to me because I've been very clear that I'm not doing that. I'm doing this and that's it for me. So I'm not going to tackle any other franchises. Famous last words, just because I'm a writer and I want to write whatever I want to write. I don't want to write something where I have to make sure I'm tagging different data points to satisfy X. I just want to satisfy me. And the only reason that I think Resident Evil is okay for me to do is because I'm enthusiastic about the games and I like the story that I thought of with the games and I'm making it for me. He did also say in another interview, I can't help but thinking about other places this story could go. I've got ideas, but this movie hasn't even come out yet. Let's see what happens. So he does leave the door open for a potential sequel to this movie. And I wonder about that because there is a prequel to weapons in the work, which he is co-writing, but not directing. There was actually a barbarian video game announced a few years ago and it's been radio silence ever since. I assume that's not happening. Do you get the snake eating its own tail or some kind of recursive scenario where there's a Resident Evil game adaptation of the Resident Evil movie adaptation? I don't know. Do we want to be Brian or something? Maybe we can take a quick little spoiler interlude here and we will timestamp it in the show notes if you want to skip over this. But just to address the endings of the films, which a lot of the movie is building up to, right? And Brian gets bitten and you can kind of project out from there what could happen. And he's seeing the infection progressing. And at the very end, we get the confrontation up in the top tower of the Reconcity Hospital and he gets full-blown T virus and mutates and loses his mind. And it is like some of the earlier scenes a little sad because you can see some remnant of his humanity here even as he is like growing other eyeballs and stuff like he is still retaining some semblance of Brian. And it's just like, hey, inject me because as soon as you hit me with this vaccine, maybe I'll go back to normal and it just doesn't happen because his tentacles are rebelling and are squishing various scientists who can help him. And at the very end, we just see him in full-blown monster mode, just, you know, almost Godzilla posing at the top of the building here as helicopters fly in. And that's that. The movie ends. And that surprised me a little bit, frankly. And and Craig heard talked about this, again, the sequel talk. He said, with Barbarian, I've never entertained the idea of a sequel or another movie in that universe because that story is at its heart so foul. What makes Barbarian interesting is the unfolding of the narrative. Not the subject matter. I don't think I want to write another story about what that movie is about. Don't blame him. But this is different. I want to talk about the ending of the movie so badly because there is a big aspect of it that's worth discussing. This is a different situation. And Daniel, you and I were actually somewhat taken aback when the credits rolled and we were sitting there waiting for a post-credit scene that never came. And it feels almost like set up for a series or a prequel or something. It's like, okay, this was Brian's story. And now here's how the full-blown infection and nuking or whatever else comes next happens. So what did you make of that, Joshua, that it just ends unhappily for Brian even though he has had the catharsis of realizing that he's ready to be a dad. I don't think that's in the card for him, unfortunately, seems like Michelle is going to have to be a single mom if she goes through with that pregnancy. I mean, in some ways, he is. He will be. I mean, he's going to have so many T virus children. Yeah, that's true. It's ballsy, right? He spent all this time sympathizing with this guy. He was kind of a little twerp. But he becomes the monster at the end. He becomes the harboring thing that like he's been avoiding. He's not quite the weird Katamari creature that is like, but doubling him for the whole, which is so funny. I love that like, instead of a nemesis, it's just this blob of people. It's kind of a less of us sort of, you know, with like the rats, the rat, and the bat king kind of just giant bodies joined together. Yeah. But yeah, and he sort of like looks a little bit like the tyrant, right? Did you finish R.E.2 right down? You saw the tyrant monster? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he kind of looks like what's like William, William Birkin. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Birkin. So, you know, I think it's clearly sort of like gesturing in that direction. But yeah, I'm so cute. Like I would love it to talk to Kragger and be like, yeah, what are you doing here? I think I appreciate the swing and I think I think I admire the movie more. I've seen a few people who complain about the third act and how it's like not as taught as like the, you know, the previous part of the movie and like, yeah, sure. But I do think that like when you have a movie this light, you need some kind of swing to end with. And I think I appreciate this one. Yeah, I did kind of enjoy the quieter ramp up more just the isolated encounters than the full blown balls to the wall. Infection raging yeah. part of the film, but I think it made sense that it would scale up from small to very big. So it feels appropriate. But yeah, I kind of liked the trapsing through the snow phase of the film, more so than the cityscape. But yeah, Daniel, what did you make of this climax? Yeah. No, I mean, part one is definitely my favorite part of it. Like the first part of the movie is my favorite. But yeah, as much as I really did enjoy this movie, the ending is what I was most disappointed by. And I think it was very palpable with Ben, just like the reaction that we heard from the audience. It was just like kind of a muted few claps and like people just waiting a second to see if it was actually over its oldest process. I get it real tough. Yeah, the applause came at the very end of the credits when it became clear that there was no post-creditsy and it's like relatedly, we applauded. But yeah, it was kind of sad, but that really did. That captured how I felt in the month, too. I was like, really? You know, because I think it's especially when you have a movie like this where you're following somebody for so long and you're just stuck to that perspective for it to just end very abruptly like that after you've just gone through all the shit with him. Like you just you just shot the little girl in the RV and all the like you just survived the dog in the bar and all these things where it's just still like he's finally there. And like, you know, it doesn't need to be a happy ending. Like weapons, I would say just just not have a happy ending. And it's like, you know, it's grossly cathartic in its own way. But I don't know, maybe I was like thinking about a lot too. Like maybe for me, it was just like a lot of the characters are very unserious in a way that's fun. And like, you know, Ben, you were saying it's kind of spoof-like in a way. And like, you know, Joshy, you were talking about how like there is a commentary on Umbrella just like fucking up this whole situation. But there are moments where I'm just like, why are you even letting him in the lap? Like, they're so afraid is the whole point. I feel like where it's just like, you're not even going to check that this guy was bitten. Like, you know, and then, you know, it's they're playing up the whole fact that nobody is going to stick them with the, you know, with the cure and all that. Like that makes sense. But it's just the whole time. It's just like, you're like smack in your your your your forehead with your hand here because you're just like, come on, somebody just stick them. But, uh, desperate times, desperate times. Yeah. The spending process was a little lax. But, yeah, I mean, like, I mean, this is the the sheer surprise of having Zach Sherry pop in though. Yeah. That was awesome. Like, I was I feel like I didn't even hear half of what he was saying because I was just happy he was on screen. So I don't know. Like a bug. Quite yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I admired I respect it because you're you're really jonesing for the happy ending and okay, maybe Brian's matured and he's learned his lesson and maybe he gets to walk away from this thing and yeah, not not so much. So, so I don't know if this is his bid for a franchise or a successor or whether it's just a leave it open ended, you know, if you want to find out what happens, play the Resident Evil games, maybe that's part of it is just like reinforcing that message that this is not actually following that narrative. This is just one man story and most stories in this universe do not have a happy ending unfortunately for for Brian's. So I will say if I could catch you guys, how I would have not to Monday morning quarterback here, I would have I would have really loved for there to be some sort of choice on Brian's part where it's like, you know, this is like maybe the only like the last tier sample and it'll bring back the fact that, you know, he's just supposedly got him over the hump where he's like, oh, now I want to be a dad like he started off the movie very selfish and now he could be presented with this choice of my part. Do I choose myself and and the cure or do I possibly let it and you know, maybe he just chooses himself because he's still selfish and then now the cure is still gone anyway. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I would have just liked some sort of like something else with with Brian other than just like yeah, now he's a zombie. We saw that comment, but you know, yeah, we we get throughout the movie. He's professing that he's delivering whatever it is for selfless motives, you know, he's constantly like this could be a kid's heart or so, you know, this could be saving someone's life. But really we know he's doing it because he's getting double his regular rate. Right. And he wasn't interested in the assignment initially. And so that's sort of just the justification, but then by the end of the movie, it's still self-interest because once he knows that it's the vaccine and obviously he needs the vaccine. So it would have been nice. I guess as you're saying Daniel, to have a moment where you realize that it's not just about self-interest, but you know, maybe the the voicemail he leaves for Michelle, which I don't know whether she'll ever hear, but yeah, poor Michelle, you know, she got his earlier voicemail. She called back he never picked up. I didn't I love that scene in the house where after he eludes the dog and then the initial corpse comes back to life. And he manages to to blow both of those bodies away while Michelle is kind of like hectoring him for not picking up the phone on the voicemail. And meanwhile he's watching the tentacles start to announce I love that because every impulse in your body is like run, get out of there and we're just like keep blasting them or something and he's sitting there like Spock just going fascinating, you know, you're like, wow, look at how this is. I like that. That was one of the funnier moments of the movie, I think. So that guy and then just him and the cop trying to get the first zombie into the car with my two favorite gags in the whole movie. Her hands are sticking up. Yeah. Oh man. All right. Well, good movie. And I'm glad it got made. And I'm glad that unfortunately Brian may not be immune to the T virus, but Zach Cracker immune to the video game movie curse, which I think has been dispelled by this point, but still reassuring that he could retain his his sense of self while working in a franchise sandbox. And I look forward to everything that we see from him, whether it's in the Resident Evil movie universe or even more so beyond. And also looking forward to seeing more of Abrams and seeing him try to escape the whale, which actually seems seems better. I think I'd rather be trapped inside a whale than in raccoon city during the T virus outbreak. Neither one is really an enviable situation, but I go with whales over over mutant virus. But very happy to have you both here and Joshua. Thanks for coming back on the pod. Thanks for having me. And Daniel, thanks for keeping me company in the film, even though it turned out that I kept my whips about me and didn't really need a shoulder to lean on, but nonetheless, you're sure you did better than me, Ben. So right. You can contact, but mash at [email protected]. Let us know what you think of the movie and how it did or didn't stay true to Resident Evil lore. Next week, we have a packed pod with a ton of new games to cover fire emblem fortunes weave, which is out now and also getting rave reviews. By the way, Resident Evil's rotten tomatoes and metacritic scores while we were recording this episode plummeted from 97 and 80 to 96 and 79. So oh wow. Yeah, the critical reappraisal is happening in real time here. It turns out we have fire emblem to cover also control resident and silent hill townfall both coming next week. So we will be staying in the spooky space and more things won't slow down from there. We've got Star Wars galactic racer. We've got Gears of War E day Ace Combat eight Castlevania bell months curse coming in mid October and in less than a month. Another big screen reboot of a film franchise based on a catcom classic Street Fighter, which will be a very different movie, I think, although maybe similar in some silly ways. Thanks as always to Devin Romano for producing this podcast and to Arjuna Ramgoopal for his senior podcast management. And thanks to you, of course, for listening, as always, and I will leave you with a proclamation that Brian makes toward the end of the Resident Evil movie. Video games. Yeah!