‘Resident Evil’ and the Tightrope of Relaunching Old IP

It is Thursday, September 10th. The plight of the International Film Studio can be a tough one these days, especially with the US Studios consolidating, getting bigger, the global streaming services sucking up audiences and attention, but it helps if you control intellectual property. That's certainly true of Constantine Film, the largest and one of the oldest German film TV studios. Thanks to a right steel in the 90s, Constantine controls Resident Evil based on the Capcom game from Japan. First movie came out in 2002 and there have been 7 of them, most of them hits. The next one arriving next Friday via Sony and directed by the very hot filmmakers at Kregger of Weapons and Barbarian fame, to get into how that happened. Resident Evil will now have 8 live action movies, 4 animated films, 2 TV series, a stage play, and dozens of novels and comics that's in addition to a still very popular game. It's a perfect example of how even relatively non-flashy IP can still have a really long life, and if this movie works, be reinvigorated potentially. The International Film Business is super interesting right now, so it's a good time to have the CEO Constantine on the show. Oliver Burbin, he's been with the company in various capacities for 30 years now. He's been running it since 2024, its owned by the Swiss media conglomerate highlight communications. We're going to get into the franchise management business, especially on Resident Evil, how Kregger got involved, Constantine's unique participation in the Marvel movies, and how a European studio stays relevant to Hollywood. From The Ruger and Puck, I'm Matt Bellany and this is The Town. Okay, we are here with Oliver Burbin, who is CEO of Constantine Film and an executive producer of the new Resident Evil movie. Welcome Oliver. Hello Matt, thank you very much for having me. All right, this is one of our education episodes. I like doing these occasionally because I don't think we do enough about the international business and different aspects that people feel, people in the business feel like they know everything there is to know about the international film business and I don't think they do. So I want to have someone who actually does know a lot about the international film business, like yourself, on the show, to just kind of discuss the role that you guys play in the larger ecosystem, especially when it comes to US movies and especially when it comes to franchise management. And Resident Evil is a perfect example because we're going on what, 24 years of this franchise. 1997, I think we bought the rights from Japan, some Capcom, yeah. So yeah, let's get into this because let's go right into Resident Evil. Let's skip the whole background. Why does a German film distributor own the rights to a Japanese game that has now been adapted into a live action movies? A good question. So when Bernd Eichinger, who founded the company in the early 90s, was, excuse me, in the early 80s, was still alive. He basically, his mission, his idea was to produce movies brought in the US and he did so. And I think in the mid 90s, our co-president of the LA branch, Robert Colster, came into contact with Resident Evil as a video game. And he introduced it to Bernd. And so they were amazed by it. They took a plane flight to Japan to meet the Capcom guys, making business with Japan as a long business takes a long time. You got to drink sake and go in the sauna with them. Well, yeah, that also, I wasn't there at that time, but it was there a couple of times now in the last two years. So long story short, they bought the rights and we started the first movie, the first endeavor in the beginning of the 2000s. And the first international English language production of Resident Evil was actually shot in Germany in Berlin, even though it was an international production. And it was released globally by, well, except Germany and France. It was released by Sony already. So Sony's with us as a partner since day one. So are they attached to it perpetually? No, they're not. Or is every movie has to be redone the rights? Yes. Of course, and of course, we always, you know, go to them first and introduce it to them. And as you said before, it's the eighth movie now. There's six movies that has been done throughout the time, by the same director, Paul W. S. Anderson, exactly together with Milo Jovović as the main actress, which was an amazing journey. Then there was a single movie, number seven. And now this is like entering a complete new universe, a complete new setup of the whole DNA of Resident Evil. So in each of these movies, we again went back to Sony and started discussions with them if they wanted to announce. And I have heard that Sony initially was not interested in this one. Can you confirm or deny that? Well, let me say, there were multiple people interested in this version. And that was not only because of Resident Evil, which was really nice, but most of all, of course, of Zechrega. Yeah. So give us the timeline here, because it feels like you almost, I don't want to say lucked out, but you are the beneficiary of the fact that one of the hottest filmmakers out there happens to be a huge fan of this video game and really wanted to do a Resident Evil movie when he could probably do anything he wants right now. Exactly. Well, at that time, it wasn't that short. So let me get back. Let me take you back. So the 2021 movie doesn't work. And you as the franchise manager, you say, okay, we're going to leave this alone for a little bit, do TV, do whatever. And then when did you say, okay, it's time? That was basically exactly the fact. Since the other movies didn't work that well, I said, well, we have to wait a little longer to see where we, and how we can, you know, re-manage this whole IP completely. So more or less by accident, in that time, that is 23 to 24. Bebarians was out. Weapons was not out. Yeah, that was that Gregor's first big movie. Exactly. Weapons was not out at that time. That Gregor actually approached us together with Roy Lee. Roy Lee's the producer he works with. Exactly. He basically came to us to Robert and asked if this franchise, if this IP was available. And it was really strange because at that time, first of all, we were in that situation and we said, okay, we're going to leave it alone. We're going to need to find a completely new way on how to adapt this for the future. And on the other hand, Zach just only came out of Bebarians. So it wasn't at all that everybody was jumping on it immediately. Yeah. Well, he was pretty hot after Barbarian. Exactly. And what was the real issue, the real point where we said, okay, we got to do this was actually his pitch. He came to the table and he had this idea in front of his head. He knew exactly what he wanted. And he presented it to to Robert in a, in a, in a cafe in Beverly Hills. And, and he knew the whole movie. He knew everything that he wanted to do. And it was so different from everything that we have done so far that we started digging into it. It was more moody, more like the game, more first person, less, you know, actress kicking ass. Well, it was more like he's a gamer. He loved playing the games. So he came to this from a completely new direction. He also didn't, at least he said that. He didn't saw any of the movies. He was totally into the games. So he said, okay, I have this idea of, of basically bringing this guy, this, you know, random, normal guy that has no skills into the situation. Have them, you know, have him go throughout the story, get, you know, as in a video game, get better, get weapons, get more skills, whatever it is, and have him and the audience feel what, what's it like to play that game? That was his take, basically, so a completely different, as he said before, from the action takes of the, of the former movies. So you guys say, we like this. And then you shot the property with him attached to various studios. And what was the response? Well, it started a little different. So we said we liked it. And then we, we have the incredible chance of bringing PlayStation in to develop the script. So we started developing the scripts together with PlayStation. We're a fantastic partner from their one on this one. It was the first time that they came on board. So only from this one. So the first draft came in. We really loved it. That's surprising if that's a Sony company. Exactly. Well, I'm not going to get into that too far, because obviously there's, there's a lot of companies belonging to Sony and they're not, you know, always close attached. But here was the case that we started developing the script. Also, Zach knew from the very beginning that Austin should play that part. It wasn't it was something that he had in his head you knew him from weapons before so he had him in his head We really liked it and then obviously Because of Zack's former work and then weapons came out and you you know it went through the roof and everybody was really excited Suddenly there was a lot of traction from many other studios at that point. Yeah, amazing You hit everybody wants the next movie, but you had not signed yet with the distributor. No, of course We were talking to Sonia Betty. Oh, that's great leverage for you. Well, yeah, and we were talking to Sonia at that point And okay at that point it was still unclear if we're gonna do it or not. Yeah, cuz that's where I had heard the day it initially passed Well, I leave that to you But I had an incredible great meeting when I started my my CEO Internship of Constantine film. I had the first introductory meeting with Tom Ruffman because we had a long-term relationship between the companies already Run Sony pictures Exactly in that conversation Also, you know obviously at the end resident evil came up and I told him that we're pretty far long and He jumped immediately into it. All right, so he overruled his own people and said we're doing this. I'm not saying that I'm saying that. You're not saying that I just said that we have we had we had a great creative communication about this also in general about you know Constantine hasn't having even being a much smaller European studio having similar ties like Sonia, you know Not having an on-streamer being independent. So there was a lot of parallel Discussions very, you know IP driven from an IP standpoint that also Incredibly great directors and writers can be IP. So through that conversation we got to that point and he said well He definitely loves that Greg. I wants to do it and then from that point on it was It was clear. So how does the deal work on a movie like this? Do you do you guys put up any part of the budget for a resident evil movie? So yes, we do and and we have another great partner since day one of that of that franchise, which is Metropolitan is a is a is a very friend a very big French distributor and producer Victor Hadidas his name he's running the show and he's partner. He's a partner with us since day one So he's your money man and Helps no for that reason the two territories France and Germany are carved out and of course there are findings in Financing partners of the whole show always has been. It's not a different situation now So you put up how much of the budget? So we put up a decent amount of the budget like half and like a third. No no no no in You have to take it into account. Look at the whole world at all territories And then you have to then you have two major territories in Europe that are strong the most strongest one Okay, so it's a portioned to where you are releasing the film exactly and by the way that goes on not only to that movie It's it's it's because you were asking how we're going to do this in the international business This is basically how we do it. We have an IP. We produce it. We sell If you do it on a market like tiff now you sell different territories here We sold it completely To Sony who became our partner took taking over the whole world must domestic excluding these two territories. So that's basically hard works Okay, so it's a version of the international sales model except exactly Sony bought you out Except for the two territories that you guys are putting up money to release the movie in those territories Exactly how well do American romcoms and thrillers and horror movies perform in Germany It's interesting because it's I mean it's you you mentioned different genres. Let me start with horror Uh-huh. So horror. I'm like in the US is not as big Especially when it gets to gory if it's too gory people are more afraid of it if it gets more towards a direction of thriller They love it. So that it's it's totally different if you compare it to domestic to the US. Yeah, Americans love the Gore They love it. It cannot be hard enough You know, I mean, I have to say that what you can see even in the past and now within cities and also some other titles last year It is changing a little bit. So the younger the very young audience they adapt it But if you look in general, I would still stay with my statement that The more gory you get the more difficult it gets in Germany Hmm on a romcom base because you mentioned that as an example. It's different. Yeah, not not that regretting you as a romcom I do not I know it's not no, I know, but I know that's not what you mean Could be with like practical magic too. Let's let's actually that's not a romcom either, but no I mean, let's say everything that's connected to comedy German to love that and if it's American if it's local, they're really in it I know that the Germany is not known for its humor, but it's just the case. It's very Americanized. So Really that travels well. Yeah, everything towards that direction. Comedy is in David Hasselhoff. Oh, yeah, you bet Especially when he's singing. Oh, yeah, that's right. Is that still a thing does he still have a singing career there? Well, I don't well the song is still as you know It was played up and down when the world came down. So there's a lot of historical influence Together with David has a lot of Germany and it still stays that way All right enough about David Hasselhoff. Let's get back to the IP management question When you own or control this IP how much influence do you have over the creative and the marketing plans and Everything that the traditional studio typically handles Well, it's if I can answer it's two things one of it. Let's take resident evil as an example. It's an IP We own it, but it is an original IP as a game franchise by catcom So you have to be true to that direction as well. You have to be actually true to all that. Do they do they have input? Not in a sense that they control, but of course you want to be true to it. Right. You don't want to piss off the fans Exactly. You don't want to do that to the fans, but also you don't want to you know Japanese a longstanding relationship They have as you know other other very good IPs We did monster hunter for example with them together also very big gaming IP so To answer your question. That's the one thing you have to manage constantly I'm traveling to Japan at least once or twice a year to talk to them To explain them what we're doing not because I have to but but I think it's really important to keep them in the loop and also We want them when the movies come out. They bring out new games. We want the correlation of both So that's one thing the fans is the other thing you said that and the third part is that you said of course When when Sony you know brings out this movie releases this movie their Power of marketing press is huge and is amazing and the very good thing is here this specific case is they know the IP They know it for many years already It's it's an advantage On the one hand, but it also can be a challenge because now as you can see with zegraga You know doing this completely new take on on resident evil you have to also change your whole You know direction Of marketing and how to market a movie like that because there's no relationship to anything That has been with the IP so far Well, but that's sort of my question because when you are the controller of the IP And you are trying to do something new and interesting I wonder if you have any guardrails or if you have any control Oh, you know the characters cannot do this or the marketing cannot go this direction and whether whether or whether you just Hand it off to the studio and the creative partner No, it didn't well first of all When we hand it off it's not like a one-way street. They're always there. It's a very good, you know, collaboration constantly But it's not just between us and you you wanted to talk about the brand management idea The management in my ideas not so much of us as the producers just telling What we want what we don't want. I think the more you know Modern way of of managing these IPs is bringing creative in in this case zegraga who really had a Explicit idea of what he wants to tell and also not only on the movie side But also when it gets to marketing. So even Sony heavily involved zeg in all the marketing Ideas not so much because of who he is but more because he had this very unique specific creative idea of how he wants to tell that story So to answer your question. It was not just handed over and that's it. It was a great collaboration between Zach and his team between the the concerting marketing team and the marketing team in the US for just to give you an example The the German marketing team of constant team film brought in the whole tiktok collaboration that we're doing with the show you know tons of other things are coming from the Sony side So it's a really good collaboration on all different ends and again the good thing here is that we know the brand We know the IP for a long time already. Do you have cragger sign for another one if this works I would love to have him do movies with us. But he's not signed. But it's the one off. No, no, he's not signed. But maybe he'll get EP credits on follow ups, Roy Lee getting EP credits on follow ups. Again, before you get into that, the much more important question would be, Desi has a great idea for follow ups. And to be honest, I think he does. Oh, trilogy. What do I know? I, of course, you're not, you're not going to shoot that down. Give me the overall picture of a company like Constantine. So your your core business is exploiting these properties that you control. And being a studio partner in the territories that you are expert in releasing films in investing into certain movies to get those rights. And what else? What's the core? What is the modern European studio model these days? Plus what you just mentioned also investing in the production itself, not just in the IP. So for us as Constantine films, the, the great thing here is that we have a local market in Europe that is a strong market compared to the rest of the world. I think it's number four. I'm not quite sure anymore. We are number one in that market already. So we have a strong market attached to everything that we're doing. And the core business model is basically divided into two pieces. One is the one that we're just talking about the international part where we have international IPs that we're working in on the US side, but also let's say on other European countries in the UK or in France. And then in addition to this, we have the local side, which is really strong. And if you compare it by percentage, I would say it's run about 60, 40 between European German domestic and US domestic. And the model is so far divided in these two chapters that you have a very strong footprint in your local market with local production. So the most important point for us is that we are, and we're trying to, we always number one in our local markets. And then with own production, with local language productions, it doesn't necessarily like in streaming, take streaming, for example, where you have, I don't know, local for global, you have a local show that can exploit, that can overspill into other markets. On the cinematic side for us, we are focusing on our market on Germany, Austria, Switzerland, heavily, and just want the local and domestic productions to work there exceptionally well. And these days, if you can find a global audience on a streamer, all the better. Yeah, absolutely, but that enables us this, you know, the revenues that are coming in for this production on the on the feature side, they enable us to invest internationally and domestically. But you have a Netflix deal, don't you? No, we have an output deal, though one is we had an Netflix deal, that's true. We have an output deal that started this year with HBO on the paved side. And on the, yeah, I know HBO just, just advertise some German show that they're bringing to the US for HBO Max. The reason for that is, and I'm pretty sure you know that, that HBO only in January went into other, a couple of other territories worldwide. Yeah, they're spreading HBO Max across the world, switching from the licensing model. Exactly. And I imagine having local language stuff to promote. It's very important for them. Very big for them. Yes, so you guys probably want to want a piece of that. It's the same thing in the cinema market. If you look into the market, let's take Germany as an example, as an international market, the share of the local production there, if you take the whole 900 million euros, it was last year, close to 1.1 billion US dollars, when you five to 30% is local. So what's success for you? Like, what is the goal for a company like Constantine? How is your business changed? And how are you adapting? And what is like, what is, what is the future for you? Oh, well, that's a couple of questions I wonder. I know it is. I'm sorry, I don't know. No, no, I'm fine. So, to answer your first one, the success for us is to be able, as the only German company having success on the international market in the future business. And that's a success we've been trying to do for the last 30 years and it's doing well. And I hope we will have a chance to see it with residents. That's a number one goal. The other number one goal, I would say, is to stay put and keep the number one position on the domestic side. That to answer your question here. Then the second part of your question was much more difficult because you were asking, where's the, where's the whole business heading for? And I think that's, that's a much more difficult question. And I think what you can see what's happening in the US with the consolidation, that's something that for sure happens in Europe too now. It's always a little later. It's always mostly two to three years later. The merger is consolidation, all that stuff. And obviously, the, the local TV model is probably being upended there by the streamers too. I don't, I don't think there's a TV model anymore at some point. It's a streaming model. There's no TV model anymore. But look at, for example, we talked about RTL, the merger between Sky and, and RTL in Germany is huge. And Sky used to have all the HBO programs. So that goes over now to taken away from Sky to HBO. But then again, with RTL and Sky being together, they're on the same heights, kind of, the same height that Netflix is. They're all for Disney already. It's a local streamer. So there's a lot of changes going on. Yeah. How is Netflix viewed in Germany? Big. No, I know they're big. But how are they viewed? What are producers like you and what are the audience think of Netflix? Well, it's, it's different. I think it's a, it's a, for the audience, it's great. And it's big. And it's pivoting from the very young and mid-young audience more to what's the older audience. You can see that also in Germany heavily. For the producers, I think they're really heavily important. And I can tell you the reason. The problem that you have coming out of the discussion that we had about TV business is that the whole TV business is going down. You still have public television in Germany. That's something that is, and it's heavy. It's strong. Yeah, I just did a talk at the Edinburgh Film Festival, TV Festival about the impact on the BBC and the local commissions and all of that. And there's a version of that in Germany. Exactly. It's the same thing. ZTF is basically the BBC in Germany. So they're still partners they have to produce. But you look, if you look into the private sector at Pro7Cetyne or RTL, they are doing stuff, but on a much lower level. So for the producers, it's essential having a player like Netflix on the, on the local market, being a strong partner. And they are. So for us, as partners, they're really strong. The same goes for Amazon. Amazon has the most subscribers, then it's Netflix, then it's RTL Sky, and then it's Disney. So what is, what is Godstein's relationship with the Marvel movies? I saw you have credits on Fantastic Four and some of the others. Is that just you release them in your territories and get a credit? But what's the relationship? We used to. No, not anymore. So the relationship is that we are, we're partners on the Fantastic Four universe with Marvel. And the reason for that is that in the 80s, we bought the rights for the whole Fantastic Four universe and the Silver Square. And it's altogether, I think it's about more than 500 characters that are involved out of the Marvel. And the nice band from Disney hasn't shown up on your doorstep and said, we would like those rights back here. And I have a sledgehammer in my car if you don't give them to us. Well, they didn't sledgehammer us yet, but they made a deal with us. And the, the reason for that is that the deal, we did three movies that we co-produced and co-developed, but with Fox. When these movies were with these rights were still at Fox. So that were the times before Fox got bought by Disney. So we did three movies. And then later on, of course, when Fox got bought by Disney, the whole Marvel universe was reunited. And then, of course, we were able to do a deal with the Marvel to bring these rights back to them as well, because they really doing a great job. Oh, so you now, you're out. They have, they have acquired the rights back from you. Kind of. Yeah. I can go into the details. Oh, you have, you have schmuck insurance. And you get a, you get a small piece. We, we, we cannot talk about the deal explicitly, but we're still working together with Disney. Okay. So you're rooting for Doomsday. Oh, yeah, we are because doom is one of the characters out of the Fantastic Four universe. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's going to get flame for not knowing that. One of the villains. Okay. So doom is a villain associated with Fantastic Four and falls under your right steel for that property. Talk to do miss. Yeah. Yeah. And obviously, the Fantastic Four are in Doomsday. Of course, and they're in as well. Yes. So your rights go via that. Oh, well, congratulations. So you are like me. You are rooting for Avengers Doomsday. I have it in our box office draft. I'm so happy, man. I hope you will exceed your expectations that you put in your box office theft. Also, why is the Berlin Film Festival in February? Like Jesus, because I know Germans are massacres, but I'm just not going to go to Berlin in February. Well, I, I'm trying to lure you to Berlin to show you the wonderful city. I just would. Oh, I've been to Berlin. It's beautiful, but not in February. Have you been to Berlin in February? I have not, because at Hollywood reporter, I always had people that I could assign to go there when it's 10 degrees and you're standing in line for a premiere. I know. And you did. Hopefully, because there's like -20 degrees so it's really really cold. I'm just saying make it a little more accessible and maybe I will go. I know. So here's the thing. I'm going to invite you. I'm going to try next valley now to invite you and I can give you a reason because we have three you were mentioning parties in Ken. I give you three parties that we're doing in in a Berlin and you can choose you can choose all three or just one of them and I can promise you these are the best. Okay well okay you got my interest. I'm sure they've got they've got the number one techno death DJs in the world. You don't have to go home you just stay. All right well Oliver thanks for coming out and good luck with the movie. Appreciate you being here. Thank you very much Matt. Bye. We are back with the call sheet Craig have you ever seen the original practical magic? I have yes. Oh you have see I have not. Oh wow. I think this is more of a younger person thing came out in 98. Weirdly did not do huge business 46 domestic 94 worldwide. No this was a cult classic that that was a DVD beloved movie by women at home. I watched it with my wife on it and like the last two years it's a movie that she liked growing up and it gets a bump every Halloween. It's one of those like the Hocus Pocus movies that get a you know a huge lift on the streaming services around Halloween. This movie is tracking for 40 million this weekend. I was a little surprised by that. I know the star power Sandra Bullock Nicole Kibman but I don't know seems a seems hefty and it's been there for weeks. They've been at that 40 number on NRG for like three for weeks. Yeah this is Sandra Bullock's first starring role since 2022 with the lost city. Is that true? What about bird box? Is that before bird box before? That was before and that was also Netflix. This is her first theatrical movie since 2022. Huh and that movie did pretty well. It did do pretty well. She's still got a man. She's in that category of stars that matter and and unlike Nicole Kibman she's not ubiquitous. Yeah lost city open to 31 domestic in 2022. This movie feels like I don't know the constant to me it's like freaky or friday but more elevated because it's bigger stars but it's like legacy sequels. Yeah from like a late 90s. They hope it's devil wears Prada 2 that it becomes like an event for women. Yeah that's like the high end but like like early odds late 90s female led in this like legacy sequel. Yes so does that mean you're taking the over on 40? 40 feels kind of high I think I'm I think I'm going to take the under two dudes talking about this movie probably not ideal. Yeah I don't know 40 I mean I still think if this movie opens to 35 million I feel like that's still a huge win and it'll still do really well. It's an interesting one for Warner Brothers because this was a the original was a village roadshow movie financed co-financed by village roadshow which recently went through bankruptcy and Alcon another film finance company bought the rights from village roadshow so Alcon had the right to invest co-financed this movie so Warner's even in success isn't going to get the full freight of this movie on the balance sheet but I think this is going to work I'm going to take the over on 40 the over on 40 my only fear is like this just feels I wonder if this feels like a wait and see it at home type movie but maybe we'll have a big opening weekend and all the fans will come out and it won't have as many legs but 40 just feels a little high so I think I'll take the under yeah and their timing of the release suggests they're going to tee it up to put it on the service on Halloween yeah but that would because that would be about 45 50 days yeah so we'll see all right that's the show for today I want to thank my guest Oliver Burbin producer Craig Horbeck Arthur's Jesse Lopez and Stefano Sanchez and I want to thank you we'll see you next week from the Toronto film festival