Republicans Give Thanks in Wisconsin

Legacy news outlets are hollowed out. The FCC is weaponized, the president spreads conspiracy theories and AI is speeding the collapse of our information ecosystem. What's the end game here? I'm Brooke Gladstone, co-host of WNYC's on the media. Each week we cut through the BS to ask the questions you need answers to. Don't be a passive consumer, listen to on the media, wherever you get your podcasts. [Music] What's up Los Angeles? Welcome to Love It or Leave It Live from Hollywood. I'm John Love It and I, too, am a spider man in the sense that people think it's humane to put me outside, but actually that just kills me. You think you're saving that spider? Killing that spider. Killing it either way. Just step on it. We've got a great show for you tonight, but first let's get into it. What a week. President Trump has ordered workers to rip up the new White House hella pad they were installing, reportedly because he was unsatisfied with how it looked. Even though the contractor told him it was actually quite beautiful under all that algae. Last week, images showed workers putting in a 100-foot wide granite presidential seal, but by Tuesday the seal had been removed. People are suggesting this is because Trump is a capricious dope focused on what he can control rather than all the many ways he's failed in a second turn, but that is unfair. They had no choice but to rip it up. The contractors forgot to make sure Lindsey Graham was buried pointing toward the White House. Crews have been toiling around the clock as Trump hoped to have the new pad finish before Chinese President Xi visited in late September. Welcome to the White House, President Xi, please direct your attention to this beautiful new hella pad and not the massive pile of rubble where the East Wing used to be. Trump showing a Chinese dictator the White House like a four-year-old excited to show you his room. Look at where I land the helicopter. Look at where I build it. The White House has never had a hella pad before, but needs one because the new helicopters that will serve as Marine One have exhaust vents that could scorch the grass. Plus, they'll need to burn more fuel to carry around Trump's fat ass. Set a White House spokesperson, thanks to President Trump, the White House has never looked better and it will only continue to get better under his leadership. Fun fact, that spokesperson, extra-blind Stevie Wonder. This week, you haven't heard about that extra-blind version of Stevie Wonder. It's so extra-blind. So blind. Like nothing. Because you know the rumors that Stevie Wonder can see. There are these rumors that Stevie Wonder can actually see. I don't believe them, but do you know about that? That there's people who believe that Stevie Wonder is actually secretly not blind? Do you know about this? Follow the money. This week, the House Ethics Committee recommended that GOP North Carolina Congressman and member of the Crooked Dozen, Chuck Edwards, be censured for persistent, unprofessional and inappropriate conduct towards two young female staffers. Set Edwards staffer, it just met her. Just wait. Edwards gave the two women numerous gifts including personalized pink and blue handguns. It wasn't a big deal though. They were left over from Agenda Reveal. Other gifts he gave the women include. Jewelry totaling over $1,000, designer purses, shoes, flowers, a laptop and cell phone, a KitchenAid mixer, a robotic vacuum. Tickets to performances and one-on-one dinners. Insane. Chuck Edwards is 65 years old and has a wife. He's been married to since 1980. What are you doing, man? Buy your wife, Al Rumba. A staffer said that when she stomped wearing a necklace that Edwards bought her, quote, "he made a comment about how disappointed he is that I'm not willing to wear what he got me." More like, "Yuck, Edwards." According to the report, Edwards would call the staffers pretty and breathtaking. He paid for one of the women to get massages. He did yard work at her house and he skipped votes in Congress to help decorate her Christmas tree. More like, "Cuck, Edwards." Yes, it does appear that he never actually slept with either of these women, which is somehow both better and worse. I know it's mostly worse, obviously, but you know what I'm saying? It's like, "I mean, "Yuck." But also, better than he didn't. You know what I'm saying? You get it, right? It's okay. It's like, "Yeah." And now, I shall show you a picture of Chuck Edwards. He's seen here moments before holding a boom box outside the apartment of a woman who smiled at him once and he was born in 2002. Look at this fucking guy. After Edwards took a staffer to a casino and paid for drinks and gambling, the staffer texted him to thank him for a fun night. Several months later, months later, he printed out that message, drew a heart next to it, and hand wrote, "Perhaps my proudest personal moment. What are you doing? My God, man, print out a text message from your wife." Edwards gave this same woman a custom-made puzzle, inviting her to attend an Adam Sandler show with him. On another occasion, he had approximately 30 different types of ice cream delivered to her house in an effort to cheer her up. Ice cream, you scream. We all scream for a restraining order. There's also this incident detailed in the report in which he wrote poems for a female staffer, including one that he read at her going away party in the Congressional office accompanied by a slideshow, during which he cried. Several staffers present testified that they felt uncomfortable, which is so embarrassing. When I read a poem, I wrote at the office, "Everybody loves it." On Wednesday, Edwards pulled the plug and he wrote on social media at 3.32 a.m. After much prayer and reflection, I've decided to withdraw from my re-election campaign. I will complete my current term. His statement concluded, "Please don't tell my wife about this." Meanwhile, Republicans are hard at work trying to make our progressive candidates look like loony leftists, and in some races, we're actually making it relatively easy for them. Take Wisconsin's gubernatorial frontrunner Francesca Hong, a 37-year-old DSA member who serves in the state assembly. In 2020, Hong fired off several tweets, calling Thanksgiving a "colonizer holiday" that should be canceled. And I know what you're thinking. Is she a goth teen who just got asked by her grandma to pick up an extra can of cream a mushroom soup for the green beans? No. She's an adult woman who at the time had just won her first race for the state house. And when asked about it recently, she clarified with this. I'm a chef and one of the first meals that I made that was for the community when I was 16 was a Thanksgiving meal. But Thanksgiving is also a time that's incredibly painful for many people in our community. But some views can evolve. And the position that I'm running for right now and I think my background as a chef will actually help me become a better governor that's able to bring more people to the table. I think it's fitting that she is a chef because if Wisconsin ends up with an election denying Republican as governor in 2028, we're pretty fucking cooked. A day later, she did do some cleanup. My favorite holiday is Thanksgiving because I have it. I don't want to cancel it. I actually love it. I'm just going to be real. I'm kind of a curmudgeon when it comes to holidays in general. And she's not lying there. Here are just a few of her holiday tweets from throughout the years. "I do not enjoy fireworks." "I do not allow myself to work Halloween weekend." "IT bro who was working on our computer changed the background theme to snow and Christmas trees. I feel slightly attacked." "Looking forward to Valentine's Day service tomorrow will be at peak resting bitch face to celebrate all the love." At this point, I'm just glad she didn't say her favorite holiday is 9/11. Bernie Sanders does have some reservations. Here's what he had to say to John on Wednesday's "Pond save America" when asked if he would be endorsing Hong. I noticed you haven't yet endorsed in the Wisconsin governor's race. What's your thinking there and might you endorse her? I don't think so. So how did we get here? Well, the campaign of Sarah Rodriguez, the current lieutenant governor, imploded over financial mismanagement, the former lieutenant governor Mandela Barnes, who's been on this show, dropped out ahead of a story in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel about rumors of inappropriate relationships with women. David Crowley, Milwaukee's county executive, had already dropped out and endorsed Rodriguez, but at the urging of his constant governor Tony Evers jump back into the race and is now trying to mount a comeback against Hong, even though voting has already begun. But as long as he's not as woke as Hong, we stand a chance. So when people try to call me the establishment, I look at that as a slur. In other sorted primary news, Massachusetts senator Ed Markey faced his primary challenger, Congressman Seth Molten. In a debate that grew surprisingly contentious, I do have a soft spot for Ed Markey, but Molten's main critique, Ed Markey has served a very long time and at 80 is asking for a term that would mean he's 86. [BLANK_AUDIO] at the end in a narrowly divided senate where any absence or illness could have real consequences is fair but then molten drop this senator in the newly released Epstein files your name appears repeatedly but i just want to ask one question and i ask it from the perspective of a father of of two young girls at home why would you even take a meeting with the lobbyist on the half of jeffrey epstein now normally i read the epstein files before bed just to unwind but i decided to go look right then and there and marky isn't in the epstein files repeatedly in any meaningful sense but he has repeatedly called for the files to be released and marky didn't take a meeting with the lobbyist on behalf of jeffrey epstein epstein apparently paid a lobbyist to help secure the release of an in prison son of a former president of senegal colleagues of that lobbyist said they had quote an initial briefing with marky which in lobbyist speak could mean a phone call to a staffer or literally nothing there is zero proof any actual meeting happened marky's office denies he or a staff wherever part of a briefing and even if it had happened there's no reason anyone would have known that there was a connection between the colleagues of a lobbyist from that lobbyist to epstein and that same lobbyist by the way the one that led molten to say he was disturbed as a father of daughters had donated two thousand dollars two ceth molten between two thousand and fifteen and twenty twenty molten did donate those uh. funds to a charity but he did that a couple weeks ago before launching this attack in that debate and none of this stop molten from posting a picture of marky next to a picture of epstein to repeat this allegation on social media and i fucking hate this and what i'd say to said molten who i've interviewed in the past and for whom i genuinely have a lot of respect is that you're using the abuse of women and girls and the evil of it in this shockingly cynical way here was marky's response in the debate what you are doing right now is absolutely reprehensible i have a never had any relationship with epstein i have no business with him and what you're saying right now is absolutely the worst of the playbook of of uh. destruction and character assassination uh. which is so characteristic of uh. of of maga republicans added marky if you don't believe me you can ask epstein yourself oh that's right you can't because i killed him over in pop culture news one night only the movie where sex is legal only one day a year arrives in theaters this friday rave one reviewer who directed his my friggin wife men know what i'm talking about what if we watch this together ha ha texted your boss disgrace congressman chuck edwards i hate this holiday added french escahong and finally the trailer dropped for wicker a film about a fishmonger played by livia colman who asks peter dinkletch to make her a husband out of wicker and boy does he deliver he's wicker wicker if you ask me they should have called it sex and the seti and then we have a great year for you tonight and we'll be right back with adam connover hey don't go anywhere there's more of love it or leave it coming up this episode is sponsored by better help better help as an average live therapy session rating of four point nine out of five based on over one point seven million client session reviews the feedback from real people who've actually used a service speaks for itself more than six million people have used better help globally better help therapists have at least three years and one thousand hours of hands-on experience they also hold all required education training and certifications across a range of mental health specialties meaning the perfect therapists for you could be a few clicks away better help makes it easy to get started answer a few questions get matched with a therapist based on your needs and switch therapists at any time if it's not the right fit you gotta get therapy every needs therapy should be in therapy talking to somebody i'm honestly not in therapy right now and i know that's wrong but i'm just so busy but i know that i should probably just bite the bullet and make an appointment as soon as i can and that's true for everybody if you can if you have that you got to make the time because you need somebody to talk to you about your problems that's uh. you know a professional see the reviews see you stands out and see if better help is right for you visit better help dot com slash love it that's better h-e-l-p dot com slash love it love to leave it is brought to you by blinds dot com imagine a home where the light behaves exactly how you want and you wake up on your own terms not the sons blinds dot com is spent 30 years perfecting the window shopping experience back by fifty thousand five star views and over twenty five million windows covered blinds dot com makes it effortless to transform your space you're in good hands whether you go full DIY or use their license pros you're always in the driver's seat need a hand choosing your style book a free consultation with a blinds dot com design expert today they'll even ship samples to your door fast and free choose from a huge variety of style options at prices that fit any budget everything is backed by blinds dot com is 100% satisfaction guarantee because of blinds dot com the only thing they treat better than windows it's you we love blinds dot com we got great blinds from blinds dot com in our office there these electronic rolling shades because it was super sunny in there in the late afternoon get really hot and so we have these awesome shades just make the offer office more comfortable and it's more flexible and they did a great job and it was easy so right now blinds dot com is giving our listeners an exclusive fifty dollars off when you spend five hundred dollars or more just use code love it a check out limited time offer rules and restrictions apply c blinds dot com for details and we're back well Adam con over out in just a moment but first the midterms are coming and friends of the pod subscribers can tune into this week's polar coaster where Dan fight for breaks down what Tuesday's Michigan results mean for November if you're thinking about becoming a friend of the pod now is a great time to join your subscription unlocks access to our excellent sub-stack newsletters including open tabs at free episodes of all your favorite crooked pods exclusive subscriber only shows like pod save america only friends and much more and to everyone who's already a friend of the pod thank you your support helps power independent pro-democracy media that you can trust all right please welcome to the stage he knows a lot and boys are going to tell you about it it's out of con over buddy if you see it thanks your being here you're right hi hi everybody how you doing uh thanks for coming on the show thanks for having me did you take the bus i i know i drove here today i was bummed because you had a book in your hand i was like oh my god what is i think you're you that went great play red on the bus you're so like you have said you have your shoe you're so well put together and you had a book in your hand i was like god he's riding the bus here so cool so she's riding the bus i made you know i made a lot of my career based on famously riding the bus and then i did a stand-up special about it and then after i recorded that stand-up special i was like that's enough of that for a while and i i got myself a nice little electric car and i i do take the bus quite off i think the subway wonderful subway so yeah we have a knowledge people it's really popping um but now i drive around a little bit too yeah it's helped me enjoy Los Angeles i think that's good i think that's i think it's long you know i think more people should more there are a lot of people who must ride the bus and we should have a good system for people that have to ride the bus yeah but it would be a better L.A. of people who didn't who could try choose to ride the bus sometimes as opposed to thinking that they must be a bus all the time people transportation flexibility and people are starting to say less in L.A. i don't know anyone who rides the bus that's yeah oh i literally meant i got lived in L.A. for 30 years i told my road the bus he's like oh did you get a did you get a DUI that's like a that's what joke people used to say riding the bus me was literally code for i got drunk and i got a DUI no i didn't get a DUI i'm an adult i did coke and then drove up myself up uh so now we both recently interviewed Bernie about AI yes pretty he's pretty worked up about it what what did you what were your takeaways from that conversation my main takeaway is that he very charmingly pronounces it robot he says robot he says oh yeah i end the robots robot yeah and it's like and he's doing it legitimately yeah he's not like dr. zoidberg on Futurama where they're making fun of he literally is from 1930s Jewish Brooklyn and he says like he knows the guy who invented the word robot you know right well it's like he well doctor he's saying it actually in the same way zoidberg is saying it because zoidberg isn't saying it as a joke the show's saying it as a joke they're both saying it sincerely as robot i like that is like that Bernie and dr. zoidberg legitimately knew each other and i think they could you know i think they have they sort of some sort of affiliation is certainly possible a similar energy no look i i think his plan is really interesting if you guys haven't heard Bernie's plan is a he wants a national data center moratorium which is would be very popular i'm sure and then he wants to create a sovereign wealth fund where the us owns half of all of the ai companies in stock and then we pay people out and like everybody every american would like get a check click an ai dividend check they get an Alaska from the oil companies which i find like really fascinating you know because ai is built on a public good which is the production of culture that every other human participates in right so literally trained on every piece of text ever written so every piece of text you've ever written on the internet it's trained on and it's all of our cultural output. And so why shouldn't we participate in the same way that, you know, the FCC controls the airwaves because, hey, the public owns the air, no company can own the air. - Aren't I trained? - Therefore they can, yeah. - Aren't I trained on the same outputs, right? I'm trained on. - Don't do that, don't do that. - No, no, no, no. - Oh, okay. - You're playing into their scheme when you're-- - I'm asking. - I'm just like the AI. I'm also trained on outputs. - I'm asking. - You're a fucking person. - You don't? - Right, no, I know, and I know that. - Oh, yeah. - But I'm saying, what would be the response? Like, I consume a lot of media. That media informs my views. I synthesize it and create something from it. I understand that there's a big difference between, first of all, the, you know, scale matters, right? Like, it matters if you throw away, you know, like a polluting company in the ocean. I once accidentally, you know, through a can-out by mis, you know, in the, you know, whatever. There's a difference in scale that matters. And also, I have meaning and have a consciousness and a soul, you know. And I think that's an important distinction. But like, they are just consuming content. - Yeah, I mean, you're not a corporation, right? - But what I would say is, it's wrong for them to, but just to take that to the logical conclusion. - Yeah. - To make, to not have you attack me for making a dumber point that I'm making, which is only to say, it would be wrong if they stole all those information and then replicated it, but they don't do that. They take that information and they do make something new with it, right? - I mean, I don't think it's good. - I've never seen AI output that struck me as something new. I've, every piece of AI output I see strikes me as like the most generic averaging of everything I've ever seen before, you know. - I don't think as I used to ask it, hey, can you write something new in the voice of Adam, Adam Conover, Adam Ruins, everything, my old show, and it would output stuff I had done before. We'd never come up with anything new. It's a remix of older stuff, right? - Well, that's a different, so I agree with that. That's a different, so I am bearish on some aspects of AI because I, because water skis can't pull a boat, right? Like, I think, you know, that human beings create interesting and novel culture. This thing can synthesize it and replicate it or average it or produce, kind of boring or kind of syrupy or, you know, saccharine versions of it, whatever, but human beings create something new from the light of consciousness. That's a different matter than, is it unethical? In, you know, is it, is it unethical by definition for these companies to synthesize the product of what's on the internet? - Well, it's not just synthesization or whatever, synthesis, it's extraction, you know, because they end up replacing what that thing is, right? So just take Google, for example, like Google is the main example of this. You know, Google used to be something that supported every publisher on the internet by sending them traffic. Now, all of their traffic has plummeted because when people go to Google and ask a question, it shows the answer to you directly, where did it get the answer? It got it from all of those web pages that it did not produce, right? And now it's giving you the answer and it's starving those sites of traffic. Traffic to most websites has dropped by like 50 or 60%, which makes you like wonder why, how Google thinks they're even gonna go on this way because they're, you know, they're eating their own seed corn. - Right, no, well, this is where it's like, there's something about that a lot of AI, especially anything that is generative AI and this is like new writing or imagery or whatever, it is predicated on a world in which humans make most of the art or make enough of the art that art is expected to be human and that they will continue to be new art for the machines to synthesize into future new art. But that might also be a limit on their ability to grow, right? There'll be a kind of equilibrium between how much they can destroy versus how much new needs to be created for them to be of value. Because if they're all frozen in amber based on the way we spoke in 2019 or 20 or whatever, then eventually we'll be like, I don't use AI, it keeps calling me fam, you know? Yeah, and you can picture them eventually. The company is going, oh, what if we just pay a couple painters and a couple writers to output new text to train our, you know, to give us enough variability in our training corpus to get new text out of it or we could maybe do something like what burning proposes and nationalize the companies because what they are fundamentally extracting is a public good, it's something that is produced by all of humanity simultaneously. And then we can use that money to benefit humanity and perhaps by funding arts on a massive scale. Like a lot of other countries do, that would be very nice. Now the interest, so I find that like, it's just a really fascinating argument. - Yeah, I'm, uh, conversations like this one. I think my concern or criticism is it really presupposes that the AI companies are producing value on a large scale and that has like yet to be seen. They're saying that they're producing value. They're saying that it's a new industrial revolution. Bernie said that on my podcast, which I'm, you know, I'm happy that he made that argument, but like, I'm slightly skeptical, right? That they're actually producing as much value as they say they are. I have not found AI particularly useful. I'm not sure what most people find it useful for and the companies that are like, you know, rushing to put AI into their businesses are not finding it particularly useful in their businesses, you know, and so we're still in this moment where it's like, is this a new industrial revolution or is it, you know, a normal technology, meaning something that like, you know, we end up using somewhat for the things it's good at, but, you know, I mean, even if it's as big as the cell phone, it's smaller than what they are currently saying it is and what Bernie is assuming it is. So I'm worried he might be, you know, believing the industry's line a little bit too credibly, but there's no way to prove that right now. - Yeah, I also do think there's this problem where AI, there's an old aphorism that AI is just the computers we don't have yet, right? It's just like, it's the next version. It's like, it's in a mission impossible, the first mission impossible. Ving Rames is like, I want those new Pentium 5 processors, thinking machines. And it's like, they're not that great. And so I sometimes think we call it AI and describe like, is this a new industrial revolution? It's like, well, I don't know about that because we're talking about a technology that is both a kind of, can serve as a great, kind of super-google research assistant. It can make ugly art. It can do bad writing. It can also search for like variants in DNA, it can do things, it can do a lot of different things and each one of these have potential applications and are different and to varying degrees reflect the value of the technology. Like for me in my day to day, like I find it's writing to be atrocious and I've tested it in all kinds of ways and it's like, it's actually a very, very little use. Where it is very useful is as a research tool, I don't rely on anything it ever produces but it does kind of, it can do a quick draw and find a bunch of sources and then I can go to those original sources and that is useful, right? Like that is a valuable thing that did not exist before. Now I don't how valuable, but for me that does help. - You know, it's really funny. Over the past couple of weeks I was like, I use a paid search engine called Kagi which is like a Google alternative that has a lot of features that I like. It's about a hundred bucks a year. They have their own private AI assistant, right? I was like, well, you know I'm paying to use this thing might as well use it a little bit for research purposes, right? And one of the nice things it does is it searches the web and it summarizes what it find. Like it shows it searching, right? So it's really easy to follow up on the sources and I have been trying to learn to put in these new contact lenses. I've been prescribed scleral contact lenses. They're really big. You have to really open your eye wise. I'm trying to learn how to desensitize my blink reflex. And so I was like, can you find like things people have said help them desensitize their blink reflex? And it says, okay, well, here's a 10 step program. You know, hold your eye open and start touching the white of your eye lightly. If you want to, you can use the back of a spoon or you can use the little plunger that the contact lens comes with. But I didn't have a citation for that and I said, well, okay, where did you find like the reddit thread or the forum thread where people said you could touch it with the back of the spoon and it said, oh, nowhere, I made it up. But I said, I was a little concerning that you made it up. It said, oh, yeah, that is very concerning. You've got a good point. And I was like, this is like it's so quickly contradicted like it's use as a research tool. And again, this is after three or four years of people saying, this is the worst it's ever gonna be. Oh, it's gonna get so much. But to me, it's about as good as it was a couple of years ago. And the other thing about that argument that it's gonna be, oh, it's the next computer is, like large language models do seem useful for some stuff or token, whatever the token neural networks. But it still only does that, right? It has the weights of the tokens and it produces output based on the input. That itself seems like it has limited utility. And a lot of what people are imagining when they talk about AI is something that like a token processing neural network doesn't seem like it could accomplish at all. Like a lot of the things that humans do are not have nothing to do with just like comparing weights of words or pixels, right? The world doesn't actually come in weights and pixels. And like occasionally someone has to like actually fucking move through space and like make a coffee. You know, like, you know what the economy actually runs on? My grandmother's bed pan needs to be changed. And the person who changes my grandmother's bed pan needs to eat some food. And the food needs to be brought to her house. and it's needs to be prepared and like the world is made of people and I have yet to see the evidence that like you know eighty percent of jobs are automatable in that well I just don't think it's fucking true and uh. you know I love the idea of nationalizing fifty percent of like any industry basically I think that's probably a good idea you know we say that say that shit for us on piker stream all right you know do we do we uh. do we actually believe the claims the companies are not you know yeah yeah it's it's it's very hard because it is like this sort of the mystical quality of the debate the way it kind of gets blurred like are they going to become conscious is what does it need to become conscious to be extraordinarily capable and to disrupt a lot of the jobs and also we don't know what consciousness is so not going to be sure I don't want to talk about it say will I become conscious I want to shoot myself in the head with a gun like I'm like I you know I did philosophy don't do that I was nineteen that's what the computer is going on the porch with you but you know no no no you're right you're right you're I shouldn't have interrupted you're making a good point I was just sort of struck by the by the threat is there something you've uh. wanted to debunk lately oh that's a really good question um something I have wanted to debunk lately um you know I just did a video on my YouTube channel that that made people very mad about all the the downsides of our sudden shift to to work from home as a culture um and that was based on a lot of my own experience and like other folks that I've worked with and and it's really interesting like work from home like systemically like this advantages young people who have trouble like getting and keeping jobs um and uh because you know when you're trapped in a zoom box you like can't like interact with other people you're treated like much more like a uh a little you know bit in a uh you know a system that can be easily dispensed with and it's really it's a lot harder like unionized uh remote workplaces if you care about you know labor rights and and I've been thinking a lot about the real world and how important your presence in the real real world is and how much power it gives you you know and I think that like uh work from home is really a huge advantage for so many people disabled folks you know uh parents of young kids etc etc for many many people it's great but I think that like workers have run to it so much we've sort of like neglected to see how much power it takes away from us in a lot of cases um and it's also increased inequality because only white color jobs get to be remote right and uh this uh it was like a really interesting set of arguments that we laid out on YouTube and uh uh uh people got mad I also one thing the love working for a woman as they should well they you know I sometimes think it's a little bit like staying at home it's sometimes it is a part of it is a little bit like staying from home and watching Netflix versus going out when you don't really feel like going out and you know Guy Brownem would often say sometimes you have to leave the house to want to go out and it may feel like a word not a lot of it's exhausting at times but there's something that happens despite yourself that made it good that you left the house in ways you may not understand I also you know people people would say like about talking about when I for advice like what should I do like what kind of internship where am I going to learn the most it's like you should if you can like try to get either a entry-level job or an internship in a profession you're really interested in and but do not presume your goal in that first six months is to learn a lot you will and that's good you should try um but that is not an opportunity for you to um uh gain the career experience you want exactly it's your goal there to build a relationship with someone who will feel guilty for all the grunch shit you did because that will be the thing that helps the they will become your ally yeah give you advice and and help you figure out your career as you move through life and like you just got to show up I think that I think it's a good point I put it less in terms of career advancement or that kind of thing and more that like we are fundamentally social animals we want to be around other people we benefit from being around other people you know when prisoners are isolated right it's like it's a form of torture right solitary confinement and so like when we isolate ourselves from other folks when we're too quick to do that you know plenty of people have been forced to go to workplaces they don't want to and that's bad that's very bad as well right but like I think that we could all do even as workers to remember how much we get out of being around other people and how much like power that gives us in the workplace like like union organizing is about looking someone else in the eyes and saying we have a shared struggle right and like fuck that fuck the boss over there but I'm talking to you right here we haven't seen him for losing you're losing me a little bit the uh I know your writers unionized a couple years ago no no I'm not joke I love love the crooked union I like I like to make host do that when I come on shows but no but with the other thing I've felt to about this debate that got a bit more one of the challenges I've noticed is that the people that write about work from home are writers and writing is a profession that is like kind of annoying and it can be like I know for like the team that works to love to leave it like they come in and write and it's like they got to find a place that's quiet we have like our anchor day is Wednesday where everybody comes in the office and that's our big day for doing a lot of the writing and so I sometimes think too that a lot of the people that poo poo the benefits of coming to an office just happen to be the kind of people whose jobs it is are to write articles on the internet from their apartments and are like why the fuck would I want to do this at the headquarters of Vox.com you can eat shit you know what I'm saying uh it's also on the other hand people like me who write I want to acknowledge like when I talk about this it's like I like working with other people because I get to work with comedy writers you know um and uh people I enjoy being around a lot of people don't and so from this conversation is it really contradicts a lot of people's like lived experiences either way you know and uh that's what makes it difficult but I just think it's something that like we should uh I'm just trying to pull people out of their perspective on it and like get get a little bit of a broader view because I think it's worth it. Yeah. Thank you Adam his podcast factually is available wherever you get your podcasts and watch them on YouTube at the Adam Conover and we'll be right back. Hey don't go anywhere there's more of love it or leave it coming up. Love it or leave it is brought to you by cook unity I love cook unity I had a bunch of meals from cook unity I had a um a Spanish kind of beef bowl that was great I had a pasta that I really liked it was shrimp pasta and there was a chicken and broccoli pasta that I really liked that a chicken Caesar wrap that was great I so I love having cook unity basically what how I use it is a couple nights a week I'll have it for breakfast honestly and I like it's like I'll come over from the gym and I have just like a few minutes between getting over the gym and wanting to get to the office and so I can just throw one of those guys in the microwave it comes out great it's great food you can like pick the ones that are high in protein and whatever you're looking for I was I like getting one set of a mix of carbs and vegetables and a lot of protein and then it basically is like breakfast but also I use it basically it's like an early lunch and it's awesome but I also sometimes have them for dinner they're just a great flexible thing to have in your fridge I get four meals a week right now they come on Mondays I put them in my fridge and then then basically during the week the work week I have a couple of these meals and they're just excellent the food tastes like someone just made it for you because they did a small batch that morning there are hundreds of dishes to choose from the menu features 10 different dietary preferences and upper 25 cuisines and is updated constantly. Cook Unity is the first chef left meal delivery service that makes your meals and small batches inside local microkitchens across the US not factories so every dish arrives with the kind of freshness you'd get at a restaurant itself meals from Michelin star chefs James Beard winners and food network stars go to cook unity dot com slash L.O.L.I. or use code L.O.L.I. before check out for 50% off your first week taste what happens when real award winning chefs make fresh small batch meals for you go to cook unity dot com slash L.O.L.I. or enter code L.O.L.I. before check out and get 50% off your first order that's 50% off your first order by using code L.O.L.I. or going to cook unity dot com slash L.O.L.I. and we're back please welcome to the stage a good sport who's good on sports it's Sarah Tiana thanks for being here thanks for having me whoa look at us yeah look at us putting our feet up um you currently host the show women sports now on ESPN what is your favorite women's team to watch here in L.A. I'm an angel city season ticket third come on love angel city just film the tiktok video with kacy and jazel cool very fun love angel city just got the new swag from anthropology for them love the sparks you know I do I really do enjoy this but I'm from Georgia so I should love the Atlanta dream but I just can't why can't you I just started going to sparks games that was my first introduction into the WNVA and like I just love Nekka I'm really sad that Kelsey plumb left like you know like I they're just really fun I do have notes but um about the sparks but like on the like on the like the design of the logo or anything or like the playing where do I start um no yet a little bit of the playing but mostly the merch I'm like really sad about the merch because when you go to a sparks game you can't just buy a jersey in the store which is really disheartening because it's like 18 LeBron jerseys you can't buy a jersey why not if they're just not for sale they will have like a retro Lisa Leslie jersey and you're like cool yeah of course like I probably already have this I do have some notes on the food options at uh BMO - Oh, yeah, I want, I'm like, hmm. - It's the same as so-fi, where you're like, this is a new stadium. They should have lots of great options, but they're just mid. They try too hard, they'll try to do something fancy and you're like, I just really want a good hot dog or really great ticket tenders with like, you know, honey, barbecue or something, you know, like something hot, honey. - Yeah, that's not, this wasn't broken. I want to fucking hellmate, made a plastic, filled with goddamn nachos. - Absolutely, that's dodger stadium lid, I would cheer for Al-Qaeda before the Dodgers, but like, I love the food at Dodger stadium, like, no notes. - You're also, you've worked on quite a view, where we are. You can leave this part, I don't care. Here audience, we cut everything where we rift about Al-Qaeda. - Yeah. - You're also a great joke writer. You've written a bunch of roasts. We had W. come out, Bell, on this pod. He hates the roasting. He thinks roasts are dead. - Agree or disagree? - I, it's hard to disagree, but I don't, I think roasting used to be an R. You're only supposed to roast the ones you love, because if you roast people that you don't like, then it just becomes hate, you know, then it just becomes mean. It was like, when we had an culture on the Rob Low roast, like people were just doing jokes about her that were super mean, and I was in charge of her, and I was like, - Make sure a bowl was full, and there was enough water in her tank. - Yeah, had enough, yes, had enough blood to drink, you know, like that, and at one point they were like, go tell her to laugh, and she was like, 'cause she was like just sitting there, like angry the whole time, and I was like, and you know, like you just like, when people make jokes about you, just try to laugh, and she goes, well, I'll laugh when it's funny, and I was like, you're not wrong. Literally everyone's just called you a cunt for like an hour, you know. I think Mickey Glazer had the best joke about her, which was like, and, and culture. The only man and culture we'll ever make happy is the Mexican who digs her grave. (audience laughs) - It's the great joke. - Great joke. - Mickey Glazer, that's a great joke. Yeah, great joke, but, you know, I mean, I think it used to be, you only roast the ones you love, and now, you know, we're roasting people, you know, who have been roasted before, or, you know, who maybe aren't as roasted. Like when we had Tom Brady, you know, no one had made fun of Tom Brady. It was so exciting, and lately it's just become like, who could we, you know, roast next? And who will take the job, like, who will do it? And Kevin Hart, who I love, who, you know, who is very funny and incredible, and I thought the roast was very, very entertaining and lovely, but it's like, you know, we do make fun of Kevin Hart. All the time, Kevin Hart makes fun of Kevin Hart, all the time. Yeah, I find myself when I watch the roast, 'cause I'm like a, 'cause the correspondence dinners are basically a form of a roast. And I love the craft of these kinds of jokes, and I just find myself watching them, and just like, I can't help but like, write the material that I wish they were doing, just as I'm watching it, just like, come on, like there's such a, it's like, we, like, it's very, you're right, because it is the point that, come out of me as well, that like, it doesn't have the personal touch that it would have had in the past, where people who really knew each other, even when they first started airing on Comedy Central, there were people who knew each other. Yes, there were friends, you know. And like, I think in Kevin's roast, there were so many lovely parts. Like, I think, you know, Naim, who is his opener, like that was really beautiful and personal, you know, and Big J, who had known him for a long time. Like those felt very personal, and then there was, you know, some more of his friends there, but you know, I definitely, we wanna connect, we want it to be real. I mean, I've roast battled people before, and people have been like, asked me to roast them. And I'm like, you know, we're not, like, why would I roast you? Because when you roast someone, you have to do tons of research on them. And I'm not gonna kind of waste that energy on people that I don't feel like deserve it. And, you know, when I'm writing a joke about you, especially as a friend, I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, I'm trying to impress you. Like, I want you to love the joke so much that you want it for your act. Yeah, 'cause we did a roast at our rehearsal dinner, that we turned that into a roast, and people really brought it, and they were so mean. Halle's here, she roasted the ever-loving shit out of me at that. And it was great. Has there ever been a roast where you've written a joke that didn't get used that you thought would have just absolutely killed? So, yeah, during the James Franco roast, I wrote a joke for Jeff Ross, and he did it in the room, and it was James Franco, you're an insult to Italian actors everywhere. I bet James Gandalfini is trying to roll over in his grave right now. And like, he killed, he kind of, he was right after Gandalfini died, so it was super topical, and I was at it and murdered in all the rehearsals. And then when Jeff said it, he kind of did a second, he paused in the middle of it, and then so they cut it because of the way he delivered it, and he didn't do a retake in the moment, which was totally fine, 'cause I was like, I'll just get to keep that joke forever. Like I'll get to use that on other people. That's great. (laughing) Now, sort of kind of breaks the rule a little bit because that's not really a joke about James Franco. That's a joke about James Gandalfini. He really caught a stray there though. He wouldn't really mind, he was dead. It was a fat joke. Yeah, it was, it was, in fact, just a fat joke. Simply a fat joke. Sometimes those are really fun. I mean, I remember roasting Ralphie May, 'cause we were like, at the time, we were pitching roast battle, and so we were pitching it to HBO or something, and so me and Ralphie decided to roast each other, and I remember it was right after the Ray Rice scandal had happened in the NFL. You remember he played for the Ravens, and it was a big domestic violent scandal, and I said, Ralphie kind of reminded me of Ray Rice. I was like, you're not an athlete, but no one would wanna be an elevator with you either, and that was one of my favorite. Yeah. And, you know, Ralphie was like, I wanna use this. I go, yeah, you should use it. Good joke, so that's, you know. There is something about the roast thing too that's about, yes, it's about going after people you love, but also about that, this is a space where we do those jokes. And part of it's just the craft of a really good fat joke, even if on some level, we know we shouldn't be doing this, but this is the space where we do it. Yeah, so I think, when you really love somebody, you want to do stuff about them that you know that they will love or appreciate, and so with Ralphie, it was definitely, you know, I do a couple of fat jokes, but then I do jokes about him being a bad father or a bad husband, you know. So it's like, you kind of spread them out, and then maybe you just like trickle a little fat in there. So, yeah, like he does on his salads. Yeah, or yeah, Raja, or like, you know, making a roast. So, now, I do wanna ask you about a lot of sports news, and to say we're calling, don't hate the player. Oh, and basically, I just wanna go through a couple of news stories, just to understand why people are mad at an athlete. Okay. First up, why are people mad at Indiana Fever guard Sophie Cunningham? (laughs) Well, where do I start? So Sophie Cunningham, she's recently become outspoken about trans athletes, specifically biological male, transitioning into female and bringing that into locker rooms in the game. And so people are definitely upset about her with that. And even when they've asked her to kind of correct her stance, she's kind of doubled down on it. And I think, you know, in the sports world, it's obviously a nuanced conversation. And she is on a team with Caitlin Clark and by proximity, she gets a kind of, and her, and there's another player on the team, they're called Tres Leches, because they're the three white girls on the team. And, you know, so they already have, like, they call her MAGA Barbie. So, you know, they, like, I think the right is always looking for someone famous to cling onto. I mean, you've seen the lineup for America 250. Like, anybody who may have done something. - Baga mirror, we want you in the thing, yeah. - Any time. And if you like Trump, then you're there. So I think she's become kind of the face of, you know, like Riley Gaines went to a game, and it's like, I don't think you've ever been to a WM, you know, like, so they're kind of clinging onto her as like this beacon of, you know, outspoken, right wing journalism. - Yeah. - I know, it's very, it's a very difficult conversation. - Well, 'cause part of it is like, yeah, you know, people need to be able to have, of course, people should be free to criticize what she's saying, but also, I think sometimes it's like, given that, I think most of the country at this point has now decided, basically they, if you kind of, you blur your eyes and like look at all the polling, it would say people don't want trans people to be discriminated against in their work, and in their lives, they want people to be able to live with themselves, but they have concerns about, they're concerned about young people, and they're concerned about sports. They really, and, and, and so there's gotta be, 'cause I think like, then the coverage, especially from the left, then says that she's anti-trans, and then it's like, well, what, hold on, if we define anti-trans as people who agree with this, then a lot of people are gonna think they're anti-trans, but at the same time, I understand those are like, well, I don't want to concede here, because they don't care about sports, they really want to make trans people feel unsafe everywhere, you know what I'm saying? And puts the athletes in a tough position too. - For sure, because they're also the people playing the game. Like I, I shouldn't be involved in this commentary, because I'm not in the locker room, I don't, I don't know. But I, I just know that there's arguments on both sides, there's no argument to the advantage of a biological male transitioning into a female that somehow that makes you, it's not like a man just puts on a wig and like goes out, like there's so many different drugs in their body, Like, it's been proven that your lung capacity goes down. Like, it doesn't mean that you're automatically advantage just because you had testosterone at one point. So I think that there's a lot of different research that needs to happen. And no one's really giving way to that. And no one's really proving it. And honestly, I will care more about the seven trans athletes trying to get in professional sports when the Epstein files are released. Because I think it's all a distraction. [APPLAUSE] Why are people mad at Aaron Rogers? [LAUGHTER] Oh, Aaron Rogers. So Aaron Rogers recently said that Dr. Tony Fauci, who he calls him, as if they're on a first-name base. As if Aaron Rogers knows anyone's first name, that he should be in prison, that he's a criminal. Aaron Rogers famously said he was immunized when they asked him if he took the COVID vaccine during COVID. And he said, I've been immunized. And then it later came out that he did not take the vaccine. He was very anti-vaccine. And he was like, I didn't mislead the media. And so when he's recently said he was married, which everyone is shocked by, and everyone keeps saying, he's been matrimonialized because we've never seen his wife, not that we need to, for that to be proof. But he's just a polarizing figure. And he's always been outspoken in right-leaning politics. So what was he-- how could he be immunized? What did he mean? Did he mean that he had natural immunity or-- Yes, that he was taking-- he said he had a long talk with Joe Rogan, his doctor, apparently. And that made-- that he had taken all the precautions necessary to not contract the disease. But he also refused to wear a mask. So there's that. I know. And finally, we have Motown Legend Martha Reeves singing the National Anthem before the first women's pro baseball league. Who could be mad about this? And the rock is red glare. The bombs bursting in air came through the night. Mm. 10 to 10, no notes. Yeah, no notes. Absolutely my favorite National Anthem of all time. It was definitely a rough start to the women's professional baseball league. And apparently, she had had a couple conversations with those backup singers about the harmonizing, because there were two country singers who got paired with her. It was the first day. And so I'm trying to look at it as there's some missteps. She put out a statement that said, the fuel conditions were wet and windy. And without stage monitors, I wasn't able to hear myself as I normally would. Well, it wasn't the performance I had hoped for. I'm grateful to have been there to support these remarkable athletes in this groundbreaking league. That makes me sad. I think it's sweet. You know what's even better than that National Anthem? Before the National Anthem, you know how before a National Anthem, at a sporting event, they'll be like, please rise if you're able and remove your caps as we sing as we celebrate America. And women's professional baseball league, they said, please rise and remove your hats, caps, visors and fedoras. And I was like, you know your audience. It was fantastic. Yeah, please remove your Brandy Carlisle branded fedora. Yes. Before we sing the National Anthem. Well, thank you, Sarah, and catch women's sports now Thursdays at 3 p.m. on ESPN and listen to sports bitches. My podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts, we'll be right back. Hey, don't go anywhere. There's more of Love It Or Leave It coming up. Love It Or Leave It is brought to you by Bill. Here's a question. Are you getting rewarded for paying your rent or mortgage right now? Did you know that was even an option if the answer is no. You need to check out Bill. Become a Bill member means earning points on every housing payment, no matter where you live. Bill points can be redeemed for flights, hotels, lift rides, Amazon.com purchases future housing payments and more. You can use your points for fitness classes and for restaurants and for Amazon.com. But there are dozens of ways to redeem. Members also get access to the AI neighborhood concierge right in the buildup. It doesn't just give local recommendations. It takes action from paying rent and reserving dinner tables to booking fitness classes and ordering lifts. It handles tasks seamlessly while applying your member benefits across 50,000 plus partner merchants. First, you download the buildup. Second, link any credit card or debit card to the apps or purchases that your local spots become even more rewarding. And third, ask the neighborhood concierge any app pretty much anything. Download the buildup and join the membership for where you live at joinbuilt.com/LoveIt. That's j-o-i-n-b-i-l-t dot com slash LoveIt. Use our links so they know we sent you. [MUSIC PLAYING] And we're back. [APPLAUSE] Please welcome to the stage, the man behind the manifesto is Dan Tabersky. [APPLAUSE] Hi, nice to meet you. Thanks for being here. Hi. Nice to meet you. So I want to talk about your new podcast, which is about manifestos, what they are, where they went, if we should bring them back. But I actually was excited to meet you because you did the podcast, Missing Richard Simmons. I did. And I want to tell you something. So do you know about Missing-- do people know about this podcast, Missing Richard Simmons? Yeah. And so basically, Richard Simmons just disappeared from public life. And you went on a journey to find out why. Correct. And to find him. Yeah. And you didn't. No. Well, yeah, I knew where he was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In his house. Yes. But you didn't talk to him. I did not. And he didn't talk to you. No. No. And you never really saw him? No. But you learned a lot about what led him to become so reclusive. Yeah, a lot of its guesswork, because I never talked to him. And so you're sort of-- but yeah, for sure. Like, it was a long journey of figuring out why he would do something like that. Why he would just be Richard Simmons for the most public celebrity for 40 years, and then stop on a dime. And can I tell you that I have a little theory that I wanted to run by you ever since that I listed the podcast, which is-- and I'm sorry, I'm just going to say what it is-- I thought, what if he gained a bunch of weight and didn't want it to be seen till he lost the weight, but then it couldn't lose the weight? Yes, 100%. That was definitely one of the things we talked about. That was definitely a possibility, for sure. But we don't know. No, we do know. He didn't gain the weight. He didn't gain weight. We know how do you know that? There was a public-- the police went and did a-- what do they call a wellness check to make sure after the podcast they were like, OK, we got to check this out. It was after the podcast. It was during the podcast. It was actually during the podcast. They did what was airing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, but it wasn't in the show. At the very end, it was in the last episode, yeah. So they checked about it. They checked, and they said he's normal. They said he was fit. They said he was-- that he was in great shape. Like they said that he was fine. He was lucid. He was-- Then what was the deal? He-- I don't know. I mean, a lot of its conjecture. But I think, ultimately, it was that he had spent so many years giving so much empathy to so many people, not being sort of professionally trained on how to do something like that and maintain that sort of work and sort of protect yourself at the same time. Because you guys are the coffee shop, but he has to be Richard Simmons at the coffee shop. He doesn't have to, but he was always Richard Simmons. I've had dinner with him in public, and it is wild. Like he's-- I'll go to the bathroom. I swear to God, the next minute, you saw-- we saw him jumping outside the window, and he was outside on the street jumping up down with people, like he just-- he couldn't stop doing it. He couldn't stop doing it. And so I-- the thinking is that-- is that he basically the only way to stop being Richard Simmons was to stop cold turkey. And that meant all the people that he was helping, all the people that he loved, all of his friends. He never spoke to them again. And he never said goodbye. Wow. Yeah, it's really a wild, tender, moving story. He's an incredible person who had a really wild ending. Yeah. I sympathize, because everywhere I go, people want me to just put on this show. Totally. Dance monkey dance. And it's like, I'm sorry. I'm just off duty today. I can't give you that thing you're desperate for, but you love it. You love it a lot. So your new podcast is called Man of Festo. And now, look, I would say most people have a negative connotation with the term of Man of Festo, because of, for example, the unabomber. But you have your own Man of Festo in the program. 11 points. Give us a couple of them. God. I mean, the first one is you've got to get mad. Man of Festo's are amazing for channeling your anger, and which is where a lot of this started for me, because I'm just so fucking angry all the time about the state of the world and the state of the cynicism out there, and the shitty people who are running things and the direction we're going in. And it's just this sort of thing that's bubbling in me all the time. And I have imaginary arguments with people that I don't even know in my head all the time. People that I agree with, even more so than with the people I hate. Like, I'm more angry. The people I agree with, but they say things the wrong way, or they just are annoying, or just anger. And Man of Festo's are amazing for channeling anger and turning it into action. Sometimes we'll be-- so when I was a writer, a speech writer, I would often procrastinate, slash think about what I was writing. And I didn't realize, but I'd walk around various government buildings muttering to myself a little bit, which is part of-- I don't realize how much when I'm thinking, I'm kind of moving my mouth. And now my husband will just be walking on the street or in the car. And they'll be like, who are you in arguing with right now? - Yeah. I was like well sometimes it's like I just to it sometimes it's such a crazy flight of fancy so for example They'll be like oh who are you arguing with and I'll be like oh, I'm not arguing I'm actually on the witness stand explaining how that road rage incident led to an accident that wasn't my fault But the judge doesn't believe me see that sounds totally normal I think that's crazy it is I don't think do other people do that do your little they go that far like you're all of a sudden Like all the way down the road fully beyond and now it's real, but you're so far good. Oh, you get lost right and you're like Wait, where's the fuck am I why am I arguing with imaginary person number two and I'm like yeah, it's insane But see sometimes I think in part because of social media in part because of my nature that if I'm not careful My Ruminating over the little frustrations or big frustrations in the world that I then find them and see them and so I see a world So every day I drive to work and someone cuts you off and someone lets you in and I see a world of people cutting me off I don't remember a world of people letting me in because I my my natural inclination and my Proneness to thinking about the bad moments makes me think that's what the world is and so our week is a manifesto really Are is the is the manifesto really one that you ought to be directing at Dan to first game? Yes, this is my manifest. This is my way of dealing with my anger. I'm angry Yeah, it's but you seem angry too. Like you seem like an angry guy I mean, I don't mean that I mean that in a as the biggest common I could give the way that I would say I I would say that I feel things deeply and Briefly I am often quite mad and briefly deeply and quite briefly combination. Yeah, no, yeah, it's great to great for my colleagues But but no, but what else is on your manifesto you wrote your points? What are things that are on your list? I mean, it's about it's about how to read the things I want to see in manifestos manifestos aren't just about anger They're about having a vision for the future, right? It's like saying this shit that's going on right now It sucks and we're gonna change it and here's how we're gonna do it and everybody let's fucking go And so some of them are really simple like pretend you're an army like the Unibomber used to sign his manifesto's fc Meaning freedom club as if there was this big sort of network of people who agreed with Ted Kaczynski when yeah That's just the sky. Yeah, and I just we're you know, just take a moment to say that we hate the Unibomber and what he did Okay, no, I I hate the Unibomber and what he did of course obviously But a lot of people think that some of the stuff that was in his manifesto of people are That's what it was beyond it was beyond the pale in the 90s to look at his manifesto It was anything other than incredibly violent and fuck you for doing it and like go to prison for the rest of your life 30 years later you can look back on it and think like yeah This person had some rage and a lot of that rage was about technology and what it was doing to our society Wasn't that crazy? Well, so I there's definitely been there been moments where people have I think um, what's the like kind of a? To get a rise out of people we reproduce parts of the Unibomber manifesto because people don't people think of Fairly he's associated with his terrible crimes and but actually there was like you know, he had a jet There was a critique in there now. I do not believe people we should be the fact that he gains this attention because he did these terrible things I think it's a reason to be cautious about kind of whatever holding these things up And I know you're so I'm just sort of yeah putting this on the context re-internet, but but Like to me like they're sort of I think part of what we're talking about is distilling the Like you know Martin Luther nailing the feces on the wherever the worms or whatever the fuck. Yeah, I don't remember a long time ago Thank you Mrs. Kagan AP AP AP European history I wonder if she's alive. Well a lot of a lot. I mean especially with especially with mass shooters like mass shooter manifestos I don't really consider them manifestos at all even though people call them manifestos You need a vision for the future and mass shooters don't have a vision for the future nine times out of the 10s the last thing They're ever gonna do and so what they're putting out as a cynical document to begin with a man of a manifesto Should take that anger and turn it into action and that and and use poetry and and and inspiration and and move people to action That's when a manifesto can be common sense Yeah, that's an old one sure. Yeah, Occupy Wall Street started with a manifesto most people don't know that yeah And that that that worked out 100% it did not work out necessarily as planned But it moved hundreds of thousands of people like to send an email the two activists sent an email to 90,000 followers saying That's it. We're not gonna. If I can do this anymore September 17th everybody go to Wall Street We're just gonna sit down until somebody does something and people showed up and they kept showing up and they kept showing up and they really turned that anger Ultimately into nothing, but But but but but but long-term it really motivated a whole generation of people, you know Bernie said we were just talking about Bernie Sanders like like a lot of Bernie Sanders followers were motivated by Occupy Wall Street I also think it's a rep right like Occupy Wall Street was a rep Like it was people getting their reps of just doing a bit of activism that maybe they hadn't done before or seeing other people doing it So I don't want to be too cynical about it because I remember finding it very cynical Yeah, no, but I remember the time feeling Kind of like inspired by the fact that so many people were willing to kind of just stake out that space Yes, but also it's disappointing because the manifesto didn't say here's what we're gonna do about it It said we're angry. We're gonna go sit and they could never agree on what the point was they can never agree on what they actually wanted to have Happened here's some things from my manifesto People should be more direct Okay, I just I'm sick of it. I feel like I pay a directness tax because I'm rude and you're not saying what you want People's movies should I'm intermissions because how on even non-demand movies? I would say any movie that's above one hour and fifty minute if you're watching it at home Well, I mean you can keep you don't need to you can fast forward you're talking about going to the movies Yeah, I'm saying it's the last time you went to a movie. I ought to say besides that before that I don't I love the movie shut up This is the problem you said that I was saying the fucking nitpicking Okay, here's my real this is my big my this is we should shift payroll taxes to income and corporate taxes But but we don't because companies Because companies pay a tax for employing a person and get a deduction for hiring a robot And I wish more people talked about this even though it's a giant change and hard to do because payroll taxes are a huge Share federal taxes and it's how we fund social safety net programs and Medicare and Social Security, but It the just because we get such a huge share of our revenue from payroll taxes doesn't mean we aren't wrong for not figuring out a way to change it over the long term and One company that makes a billion dollars but has thousands of employees. I think we should collectively view as If all else equal better than a company that makes a billion dollars and employees five people in a world where we want people to be able to work and earn a living And so perhaps our tax code should be fundamentally changed to address that and nobody's doing it and that's not my manifesto I I think that's a great point in the manifesto. I think a little bit louder and a little bit shorter and like a little bit more like We weren't taking us. We weren't looking for notes on it No, and then finally everyone dunks on nebo babies But if your goal is to become successful and have a family your goal is to create nebo babies So in a sense you hate the children in your own fantasy true You know, yeah, you're telling truth. You're telling truth. I'm kidding. You should give me notes. I shouldn't have said that You know I feel bad about that. See, this is my problem. I'm not a manifesto guy. I'm more of a hmm All right, I'm nervous to say it out Try it out now sometimes Here's the thing though. I will say this I'm brave when I'm mad and that's I think the value sometimes of anger. Yeah I'm brave when I'm mad too actually. I don't have any fear of physical of anybody hurting me like like you know It's people you see people in the street like like even though you know they're gonna get their ass kicked Like I feel like I'm one of those people. I think that I would I'll just I don't care Just I think I think like I think my fear my fear of response and we'll kick this There's a kind of innate Oshkanazi. I'm I'm the the I'm the kind of I'm the survivors of all the Jews that ran You know that'll kick in something kind of the sort of the mere cat energy of the Oshkanazi Jew, but Thank you, Dan Tabersky Dan Tabersky's manifesto is now available on audible and wherever you get your podcasts And we're back First of all, let's welcome Sarah and Adam back to the stage All right, come on in come sit back down come sit back down. All right, great Thank you all for being here. We've had a lot of fun tonight We learned a lot and I said a lot of things some of which my producers think I should not have said so worked So it's time we look back on them in a segment we call Second thoughts Here's how it works the team has assembled a list of my flubs and whiffs from the evening things they wish I'd done different or better And I'm going to run through them if you have any second thoughts about this evening whatever they may be This would be a good opportunity to share them and they're welcome because this is an opportunity for us all to just take a moment to reflect and Things but things we wish we had said a little differently or done a little better because that's a good moment mistakes You know we'll do that's what I think first My impression of Trump as a toddler had a sort of Transylvania accent I can't even imagine Trump as a toddler Because I feel like he still is so I'd like yeah, you don't have to imagine. Yeah, that's true Yeah, I promoted a conspiracy theory about Stevie Wonder faking being blind for money I don't even know why the for money things slipped in there But I think that's a very valid a lot of people a lot of people believe that you've seen TikTok a lot of people Where he caught the mic stand people really there's a video clip where he kind of catches a mic stand and it's like what the fuck yeah, yeah, I don't know Maybe there devil makes sounds super hero If they do make sounds, it's such an important point, Adam Conover. Oh, this is from the Adam, the Adam portion of the show. I tried to reject your humanity to defend AI. [LAUGHTER] Oh, we got some strong opinions on the writing staff about AI. No, I regret-- I talked over you a little bit. I feel badly about that. But see, I don't think you should, because that's both of us. And that's how this was good. There's no-- it says much no. You're-- that's-- we're just shared responsibility. Hell yeah. That's not-- that's nothing to feel bad about. Yeah. I described driving while on Coke as cool. Let's see, during the Sarah conversation, there was a brief point where we did some version of al-Qaeda. You got to hand it to them. Yeah. We'll probably come to regret that. It was cut from the show, but it did happen. And when you say you got to hand it to them, you mean like a severed hand that's been cut off for it, that's what you-- Yeah. You should add that twice. [LAUGHTER] Give me a hand for that. [APPLAUSE] I imply that I'm a better roast writer than the ones I'm watching on Netflix. I just sort of casually said, I'm writing better jokes in my head than what I'm seeing on the screen. But isn't that every writer? I think when we watch the roast, we all put ourselves in there and we go, oh, this is what I would have said. I do wish that I would have said that my biggest complaint about the roast, even though I'm a huge fan, and I will consume all of them. And I want to be a part of all of them and have a job on all of them, is that the roast used to be really personal. And now it feels like they're less personal, but the jokes are getting personal. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, I know it just-- Yeah, that doesn't feel like they know each other. Right. But the jokes are meaner. Yeah, they're more targeted as if-- Also, you're not funnier than those writers. I know a bunch of those writers. They're great writers. You're funnier than the comics, John. Oh. The comics are the ones they're doing, the jokes bad. They're picking the wrong jokes. One of them is Tony Hinchcliff. It's-- you're better than that. The writers are great. That's such an important point. And I agree. Thank you. Let's see. Oh, Dan, struggling to accept that my Richard Simmons weight game theory isn't correct. I simply don't-- I can't take the facts. I simply believe that that's what the answer is. I think that's OK, if you believe that. I don't think he's dead. So whatever led me to need to specify that I hate the unibomber. I don't know. You were really like-- I just-- I'd listen. So 30 years ago, like, no more-- Here's a thing that you love the unibombered love. Oh, sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet Dan in his podcast food. I mean, we all kind of love the unibombered, unibombered. Jesus Christ. He was on TV every night, you know? And OJ, we all loved OJ. We loved following the story. It was the night. I bought the hoodie. I was excited. Yeah, people-- I'm not going down for this. That's a statement. Hate the unibomber. Fucking Ted Kaczynski with that dead-eye stare and that little fucked up cabin in the woods blowing up people. I think we all dreamed of having a cabin in the woods and just getting away. Made packages scary. He seemed like the only happy guy in America. Yeah. He looked nothing like that drawing. He must have been so fucking thrilled when he saw that drawing. He's like, I'm free forever. You know who really had working from home was Ted Kaczynski. Don't come for me on the work from home. Don't know what to take away. You should be able to work from home. That's what I regret. People are so emotional about that. Look at you arguing with it. Look at you, Adam Connover. Are you in with the comments section? Yeah. Adam gets to me. You're not mad. You're not mad at people understanding you. You're arguing with people that are choosing not to understand you. That's true. So how are you going to argue with them successfully if their purpose is to not understand what you're saying? I will say to you that I agreed with you so people can come with me. But I enjoy working from home when I'm working on shows like that are not comedies. But when I'm writing in a comedy room, I want to be with other comedians because that's when you kind of think of things getting just in conversation. You'll be making fun of someone else's joke and that will lead to a story and then that will lead to a new joke. Which you can't get at home. I think that's such an important point. And I also do want to say. He wasn't even listening. Yes, I was. Yes, I was. I was listening. But he's like every one of my bosses in the conversation. Everyone out there who had a shitty office, you should get to work from home. Yes, you should get to work from home. But also you should go outside sometimes and make sure you remind yourself to do it. Yes, such an important point, Adam. The good things are good and the bad things are bad. People should get to do the good things. Sometimes going to the office sucks. But that doesn't mean on the whole we don't benefit from having an office to go to. Comedy sucks when people are doing it from home. It's so much better if people are in a room together getting to riff and you won't know. It's a dog that doesn't bark. The Zoom rooms, they're grueling for people. But you don't know the work that was never produced. The things that never happened. It's not just this idea that-- I feel like there was this idea that people want to go to the office because there's something magical and sort of kismet that happens around the water cooler kind of diminishing. It's somewhere in between happenstance and something mystical and just the value of people and what people do when they're together. And I don't think-- I feel like it shouldn't be diminished and I agree with you. And that's all I want to say about that. And finally, I'm sorry for speculating about whether or not my AP European history teacher is dead. And if Mrs. Kagan, you were great. And that's our show. That's our show. Thank you so much Adam, Connor, Berseratian, and Dan Dabersky. There are 88 days until the midterms and we'll be back next week with Lauren Reedman and Lisa Trigger. Have a great week, guys. Love and relief is a crooked media production. Our show is produced by Kendra James, Bill McGrath, Kelsey Gante, and me, John Love. Our production team includes Halle Keefer, Sarah Lazarus, Roman Borcellino, Peter Miller, David Toll's Claudia Shang, Jay Banks, Gavin Purcell, and Matt DeGroat. And our staff is proudly unionized with the writer's Guild of America East.