Speaker 1The Telegraph King Charles and Queen Camilla are embarking on a Caribbean royal tour next week. But are they going to get caught up in a slavery reparations row? It probably won't be all turquoise waters and white sands on this overseas trip. Nobody thinks slavery now was a great thing. Modern slavery exists today. I think we even witnessed it quite recently at the World Cup in Qatar. OK, nobody advocates it. Nobody thinks it was great. It is something that anybody that was involved with it should be ashamed of. But why are the targets for these repayments always either the British or the British royal family? Hannah, you've got your passport up to date. You've packed your bags. You've got your little tiara. I haven't had my jabs yet, but there's plenty of time.
Speaker 2How many jabs do you need to have? I haven't even looked it up. There's so much admin on these tours. Nobody understands. Oh, yeah. Although we're going to be playing the world's smallest.
Speaker 1We're going to be playing the world's smallest. We're going to be playing the world's smallest violin as you embark for work on a tour of the Caribbean. It's going to be tough. Where are you going?
Speaker 2With the king and queen? Where am I going on my holidays? Bahamas, Guyana, then Antigua and Barbuda. And at the end, it's Chogham. Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting.
Speaker 1Also known as Chogham. And where's Chogham taking place? In Antigua. Got you. Oh, there's worse things to do, isn't there? It could be a lot worse. With a week away. I've been to Guyana out of all of those, but not to the others. But then we've come to Chogham. We've covered a lot of ground between us, haven't we? Following whales around and standing behind red ropes. So it's eight days. That's quite a long time, isn't it? For a couple in their 70s. And Camilla hates flying.
Speaker 2And the king's still having treatment for cancer. So it's been a while since we've done a long tour. As you know, this used to be really normal. They used to go away for two or three weeks. Ten days was the average. Well, the late queen was
Speaker 1away for months on end, wasn't she?
Speaker 2On the Royal Yacht Britannia. You know that when they went to the Caribbean, of course, it would be months on end because they were able to get there by boat and they'd moor up and hop off. In the modern world, we were used to ten days in the spring, ten days in the autumn. And since COVID and since cancer, we've been doing these tiny little trips. So this is a lovely return to multiple countries. Well, is it lovely? We've got people kicking off already.
Speaker 1Now, you and I have covered previous royal tours involving the Caribbean and indeed Kate and William. In fact, I did a lot of Caribbean coverage with our old friend, Prince Harry. Did you do the real one? Back when he liked me. Well, I did the Rihanna one. And in fact, at that point, Harry liked me so much that I was hand-selected to do the pool with Rihanna. Me, Harry and Rihanna talking about HIV. You've got to show me a picture. I've got the photograph and we will attach it to our socials. I've got it somewhere in the annals of Tominy history. And I think I had a very interesting conversation with him about the evils of palm oil. And we got on like a house on fire. Simpler times. Simpler, happier times. And Rihanna, she was very surprisingly shy and coy. Considering her onstage persona, she was a really sweet woman.
Speaker 2I really liked her a lot. We saw her as well in Barbados when the king went to the handover ceremony. Yes. Which was this, I've never felt more sorry for him in my life at that ceremony. It was in the middle of the night, our time. So we'd flown over. It was less, it was 24 hours or something, I think. And they were doing this very important handover. Handover ceremony where they're essentially getting rid of the monarchy. Yes. And Charles, it must have been like 3 a.m., 4 a.m. His body clock time was having to sit very magnanimously through a lot of speeches saying, thanks, but no thanks. We don't want you anymore. He did a really warm, friendly speech to say, it's your decision. We're still your friends. Yeah. And we were sitting there thinking, is he going to nod off? We're all so tired. And he didn't. That is the monarchy.
Speaker 1And actually, technically, it wasn't everybody in the country's decision. Because there was no referendum. It was decided by the government. The people did not have their say. And I think we should just lodge that in the minds. Because just as every Caribbean royal tour is accompanied by protesters, there are plenty of other people cheering them on as they arrive on the scene. But the trouble is, these tours have all been tainted in recent times by calls for slavery reparations. Now, I look at this as I do any call for anyone to pay trillions of quid for the mistakes of their ancestors. And think it's completely and utterly bonkers. But I think, well, I just, well, do you really want me to start opining on this subject? Okay, I will briefly. I think when you look back at the numbers, no, first of all, let's caveat all this. Okay, nobody advocates it. It is something that, you know, it's been a great thing. Anybody that was involved with it should be ashamed of. So comparatively to, say, Portugal, we took far fewer slaves. In comparison to Arab countries in the Middle East, we literally didn't take hardly any at all. Meanwhile, when it comes to royals actually keeping slaves, let's go back and look at the kings of Benin. There was one Beninian king, King Gezo. Who said, and I quote, "The slave trade is the ruling principle of my people." So are the people in the Caribbean and Africans going to go back to their own nations and say, "Could you please pay up for the slavery of your very own people?" So I'm merely saying that if we're going to be asking for reparations, can we be very even handed and apply them to everybody across the world that took slaves? I don't think there'd be many countries that would be excluded. So I think the targeting of the king and queen like this is a little bit rum, to be honest.
Speaker 2Do you think it's exploiting, not a weakness, but somebody they think is quite empathetic towards the cause? Because King Charles has spoken about this a lot. I was with him in Ghana a couple of years ago where he walked through the Door of No Return, which is just this evocative, appalling bit of architecture where slaves were taken across the Atlantic. He's addressed it in multiple speeches. He's very calm and collected and not easy going, but he's not afraid to take on the issue of slavery. But it isn't actually his decision. This is one for the prime minister.
Speaker 1It's also not his fault. I mean, where are we going with this? Are we going to continue, for instance, to ask the current population of Germany to pay reparations for the crimes of the Nazis? I mean, literally, where does this end? Yes. Well, of course, we're going to continue to ask the prime minister to pay reparations for the crimes of the Nazis. I mean, that's what we're going to do. But we're not going to continue to ask the prime minister to pay reparations for the crimes of the Nazis. We're going to continue to ask the prime minister to pay reparations for the crimes of the Nazis. We're not going to continue to ask the prime minister to pay reparations for the crimes of the Nazis. We're not going to continue to ask the prime minister to pay reparations for the crimes
Speaker 2was such a buzz and so much excitement there were so many more people that came down to see the then duke and duchess of cambridge catherine william do this event that there was just a fence there they didn't put a fence there it was i think it was a sports ground there was a wire fence yes loads more people came down they kind of caught their eye they were shouting to them as they were leaving so they went over to say hello but all it takes is nowadays one photograph and it looks like something it isn't and that's the image that has gone around the world and that's the danger for the king here that a small number of protesters or campaigners can really shift the narrative of a tour completely but
Speaker 1listen if any of these countries want to have a referendum on keeping the monarchy or not they're more than welcome to do so that was the problem with barbados there were question marks over whether that decision had been taken democratically when the public weren't actually consulted it was a left-leaning republican government that decided to push through legislation to say we want to disenfranchise from the monarchy completely the same questions face countries in the caribbean as they do australia new zealand or canada and that is always well if we don't have the royal family as our head of state who do we have who do we elect as president you know in canada what do we want do we want prime minister trudeau to become president trudeau one day if we became a republic here president tony blair anyone president david beckham president megan markle you know this is the problem so never say never so all of these countries face the same dilemma and they they're having to decide whether it's a case of better the devil you know um i just think there's something slightly sort of cynically opportunistic about people banging this drum whenever a king or a prince is about to turn
Speaker 2up i mean i guess it's good publicity it's good publicity and you know it's complicated the legislation to remove the king as head of state is phenomenally complicated so apathy almost always wins the day with these things but the palace is prepared for it they have recce'd and in palace speak this extensively so nowadays they go out and they sort of preemptively troubleshoot what could possibly go wrong which little fires do they need to put out ahead of time how do they even
Speaker 1know that sir clive sir clive so sir clive who is smoother than a cashmere codpiece um the private secretary to the king who you and i know well um i don't think he's ever forgiven me for me describing him at the height of megs in a piece of copy as a dead man walking he's still in post now although he has announced his retirement and we wish him luck in his next chapter um so yeah clive never quite forgave me for describing him as that but he's gone and made sure that all of the possible pitfalls have been filled in have been the potholes have been pre-filled
Speaker 2yes well i don't mean it i'm using him as a sort of figurehead here this is a household a lot of people he has i don't think he's traveled himself but there's a lot of people who have traveled himself but they have people who plan the tours they have people who communicate the tours to the likes of us so they now in the days when you were going on tour with the late queen yes where it used to be sort of you almost go for a meeting ask your host what they want the queen to do pop her in a car and off she goes to tick all the boxes of what they want to showcase on the international stage now a big part of planning these trips is we've got to go into this with our eyes open and figure out what could possibly go wrong and how we're going to respond to it if it does they'll never
Speaker 1be able to i mean what goes wrong is always something completely spontaneous like somebody where were they when suddenly somebody started heckling it was in australia exactly a senator who's a massive and avowed republican started barracking charles uh shouting at him and it was all a bit embarrassing in the end i mean you can't ward against that oh no somebody's trousers have fallen down oh somebody's fallen over in a way okay try and insulate but it'll be the something will come from the least expected
Speaker 2quarter but that's their point i suppose of how you're going to deal with it so on that tour exactly uh that senator we said afterwards on the way home you know you need to send her a bunch of flowers she almost made that tour for the king because his response to it went down so well of that you know she was she was shouting about indigenous rights the next day by chance he was going to meet indigenous leaders where they gave him a hug and he made some great speeches and he came out of it looking like he'd listened and learned and responded to it well and this is slightly what we're finding recently is that there's a lot of people who are going to be somebody said to me um that he is he he's sort of setting this tone where he seems to arrive in a succession of what is what are going to be difficult tours so how's he going to deal with trump in america how's he going to deal with indigenous rights in australia how's he going to deal with the residential schools something else that people want an apology for in canada and he seems to leave things a little bit calmer and a little bit smoother and he'll do a speech and people say it's great well his speeches are quite good we were analyzing quite recently for
Speaker 1some awards who had given the best speech of 2026 and it was decided that he probably did to trump yeah yeah exactly so there you have it um i'm just trying to think what was the moment the yeah the republican slayer of the late noughties of course in australia when they were once again flirting with having a another referendum on the royals was of course prince george and i went on that tour they took along a toddler and the next thing we know australians fallen back in love with the royal family as we're all gathering around uluru um yes so really if so in a way now we're going to be judging these sorts of royal tours with if it passes without incident and nobody has declared their desire to become a republic we're probably all right it's a
Speaker 2low bar but they'll probably reach the thing with this is there's there's a total um contrast between the things that we talk about ahead of the tour now and the sorts of questions we ask of the palace which is reparations derailment and so on and what people on the ground actually want the royals to do so we have been told by sources at the palace that when they're planning the tour when you go to guyana bahamas and you're talking about the program what they want the king and the queen when she joins him to do they want apparently to do something that they don't want to do and they want to do something it to be completely forward focused thinking about their modern countries what a modern relationship can look like showcasing their arts and their culture and their sport and having a bit of fun along the way well we like that that's what a royal tour used to be i'll tell you what the best
Speaker 1it reminds me the best royal tour i ever did was was at the same time that he went to jamaica prince harry and we ended up at usain bolt running track yeah that was and i was with him and then it was in the early days of mobile phones i was like i want to get a selfie with this guy so i'm literally throw through a very very basic phone at somebody and i've got a picture of me and usain and we had all of the jamaican i thought you meant with harry no sod him no i wasn't interested in him i was interested in being next to the fastest man in the world i could believe him he's a big guy
Speaker 2god he was big i was thinking why is camilla admitting this on the book no no no no prince
Speaker 1harry no i want to be hannah please there are some people i fangirl all right i went on a royal tour once and fangirled gary barlow of take that um and um but this was the same book actually i think that was the same tour we had one tour where there was just so many great people on it that we were taking photographs left right and center no harry was the least of our worries at that point if you say bolt is there obviously when we look back at the life of elizabeth the second one of the thing that sets her apart was just how well traveled she was i mean wasn't it estimated that she had circumnavigated the globe about 47 times or something and she was of her time the world's best diplomat i mean there wasn't a country she hadn't visited or a world leader she didn't have some shared memory with she's just absolutely staggering and therefore she commanded huge respect across the commonwealth even by those who had republican sentiments because personally you didn't want to besmirch the queen as a woman and as a character and as an icon of her era is charles held up in the same regard and equally does he care as much about the commonwealth as the queen did i
Speaker 2think he does care as much he always says apparently that the head of the commonwealth is the only role he's ever been elected into he really does care about it and trying to make a success of it he is as well traveled as the queen was in her day although he doesn't go on these long royal britannia trips anymore and he has built this very quiet network of friends around the world that we haven't really noticed because there was that long period 80s 90s where people weren't even going on his tours really nobody was reporting on these speeches even though he was making them um so we have this situation in guyana where the president is hugely pro reparations it's been very clear even in the in the last week he's had an interview with itv saying we need an apology and we need reparations but it turns out he's actually a very good friend of the king's as well because the king helped him um convene people to fundraise to save the guy on and rainforest and he was in the harmony documentary yes about the king's foundation and he's modeled some sustainable developments in guyana after the king's projects at dunfrey's house so he has this whole network that we wouldn't necessarily know about or realize that is going to work in his favor now i found it quite striking recently i think after the late queen died there were a few years where wherever you traveled all the speeches were really about her and people's memories of her and how how she had visited them and you still hear people talking about that all the time i sat next to a governor general at dinner a little while ago and he was going through all these amazing memories of all the times he'd sat down with the late queen so there's still that fondness but i think it's a bit infantilizing to think that charles doesn't have any of that he hasn't been around quite quite as long but he does have his own relationships already he's
Speaker 1been around long enough let's be honest i think it was in guyana where we got to fly over some extraordinary waterfall sometimes all of these trips melded to one i'm also by the way sitting here thinking how are you packing for this i think you might have to go full capsule wardrobe with a poncho just in case you need to like tetris this case i mean sorry but i have done quite a few of these tours i don't want you to you know i don't want
Speaker 2to teach you to suck eggs i will say though you did not do them in a video era where you have to be doing pieces to camera and podcasts left right and so i don't know i was
Speaker 1so you didn't i was on a minute before hannah finesse always been a media whore if there was a camera from a foreign broadcaster there i would actually have spoken i was wearing more makeup than jackie collins at a book launch back then what are you talking about i was like nbc australian just i had a young family i was just trying to make some extracurricular bunts wherever i could i don't make her way in the world so i'm saying block colors i'm saying floaty dresses i'm saying some blazers you throw in a few blazers okay uh do you need a little emergency kit of like diorolite diorolite compede okay uh just something in case you get mind you india's was the one where you get very ill and can't ever file copy i remember going to a member remember going to an india door and going up to a pharmacist and he told me emotium doesn't work here and most of the tour did discover that on day four but that's not what this is it's not a motivational pep talk no okay and also we went somewhere was it belize where the entire royal press pack started drinking copious amounts of the local rum and people were nearly hospitalized i don't know if you can narrow that down to one talk can you well like no possibly not but just be careful on the old local grog right because words of wisdom know what these photographers are like hannah finesse right we'll have a good time and we'll see you when you get back then i mean you call this work i'll bring the gossip and the rum well you enjoy that i've got some well-deserved time off with the family because it's half term so i'll enjoy that and the daily tea will be back tomorrow with tim and jacob we smog 5 p.m you
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