Reminiscing with Richard Foos: Rhino Records, Reissue Culture & the Music We Never Forget - EP 29

There's something interesting about the way music stays with us, even when songs fade from our lives. I do not think that they really disappear. They resurface often at the right moment, carrying new meaning depending on who we have become. On this show, I usually explore that from a personal place. You know, the memories, the emotions, the stories we attach to music. But on this episode, I wanted to look at that idea from a different angle. Not just why we return to songs, but how those songs find the way back to us in the first place. My guest today is Richard Fuz, co-founder of Rhino Records and Shout Factory. Over the past few decades, his work has played a key role in bringing older music and film back into circulation. Helping new audiences discover them and allowing a long time listeners to reconnect with them in new ways. So today, we're talking about music, memory, and what it really means for something to come back. It's a privilege to introduce Richard Fuz. Welcome to Reminiscing Cards. How are you doing? I'm good. I'm very honored to be here. For those who are not familiar with your work, because I know you bought a studio for two dollars on in Hollywood back in the days, which was what you turned into Rhino Records. How would you describe how you spent your career, especially in relation to music? Well, I've only been in music for most of my career and started out having a record store. First of all, I was going to swap meets and selling records and other things, and then I was having a few bins and a friend's electronic store for a while, and then started my own record store. My own record store was the size of a closet and was selling huge records and some new records, and then we morphed into a record label just because we started putting out like a theme song to our store and giving away for free, and then in England they discovered the record and started playing on a big DJ start playing it. It was just called Go To Rhino Records, and it became like, I like a little hit, a minor hit in England, and they started ordering records, 45s, and we said, "Hey, this is easy. We'll keep making new records, and we're making kind of novelty records and some pump bands," and then the market that we saw and what we loved doing best was compiling out of print music from the past, and nobody was doing it, so we kind of had to market to ourselves for a while. And that's how you started. That's how we started it, yeah. Yes, and I know you also own shock factory right now. That was shock factory was my second company, and we sold that a few years ago and I'm still a consultant. Okay. And my first company, Rhino, is now owned by Warner Brothers, but still exists. They're still like the best, the best reassure company. Right. I sold Rhino, and then also sold shock factory too. Shock factory, I'm still involved as a consultant and a part owner. Okay. Well, made you first believe that people still had a deep emotional connection to music that they thought they'd left behind. Well, we grew up on the music of the 50s and 60s, and it was mostly all out of print, but that's what we loved the best, and we thought it was so much better than the music of the 70s, and when we first started, there was kind of a low, it was pre-disco, pre-punk, pre-new wave, you know, like 73, 74, 75, music was kind of all over the place. It wasn't very good, and all the music that we love, and what was I, if it wasn't the Beatles, Rolling Stones, or Led Zeppelin, it was probably out of print, including one of the first reissues that we were able to get from a major label was James Brown's Greatest Hits. This is like 1977, 1978. If you can believe that the record company didn't think anybody would want to buy any old songs by James Brown, so the only thing that was in print was his newest album, which wasn't selling. He wasn't having hits anymore, but all this great music was out of print, so we put out, we were able to license a James Brown's Greatest Hits. It sold great, then a few years later, compact this, started dominating the market, and they gave us the rights to own compactness, and then it really went through the roof, and then the major label took the rights back eventually, but we had sold hundreds of thousands of James Brown records, and we were able to do that for many other, many other artists. When you think about your work, do you see it as preserving music or preserving memories or both? Obviously, so for James Brown, he was really rediscovered by new wave artists and punk artists that started incorporating some of his beats in their music in early rap, and so to those people was like hearing new music. To you, when listeners were discovered an old song or album, what do you think they're really reaching for? Do you think it's the music or it's the memory, because sometimes for me, I've thought about it. I don't think when I have a memory, it takes me back to a song, but when I listen to music, it takes me back to memory. Yes, that's interesting. What do you think? Well, I guess it does both, but on the other hand, when today, 20 and 30-year-olds are discovering whoever it is, the Beatles or the Beach Boys or James Brown for the first time, and they're buying it, and they're interested in it, just because it's great music, and it appeals to them, but certainly some people want to go back, and it seems like everybody likes the music that they grow up, grew up with the best. It's so important during adolescence, and that doesn't mean you can't love plenty of other forms of music and discover new music. Most people don't that much at some point, and I got to say, I'm guilty. I love to discover music I haven't heard, but it's usually from the '50s and '60s and '70s. Like you said, we love the songs we grew up on. You still discover some new songs, and you like them, but for me, I find myself still going back to old music, not just because I grew up on them, but because I feel like they resonate more than the new music that we have now. Well, we could have a longer discussion about, but for me, I would say that the music of the '60s, when I loved it had a combination of, you know, they it rocked. It had great beats, it had great melodies, and great harmonies, and great lyrics. At some point, I feel like production became so much more important than the content of the music, and that's where I kind of steer. I think there's still not tons of great music being made. Well, I remember I had a nephew who's now in his early 40s, and he goes, yeah, music sucks today. It wasn't great like it was in the 90s. So it's true, whatever. You'll have young people saying music sucks. It wasn't like great, like in the 2010s. What do you think? What do you think about the new music? I don't like a lot of the new genres, like electronic music. I like rap, but it's so pervasive I can. So I don't like a lot of the new forms of music, and it's funny. I saw a band a couple years ago called The Lemon Twigs, and they had, you know, long hair, kind of like the Beatles, and they do these very infectious songs that you can't help singing along to. And I said, they were at a club and they had screaming girls, young women, and everything, but they're considered alternative. They're playing like the most commercial, infectious music, and if everybody heard it, I can't believe anybody went falling love with their songs. So they're playing Dengie clubs and Brooklyn and Hollywood and whatever. What patterns have you noticed in the way audiences emotionally reconnect with music from the past? Well, there's something, I'm going to say in general, I think there's something magical about music that lifts us, lifts our spirits, music in its best case. Yes. And even though I don't, I rarely go to festivals anymore or, you know, I'm not going to Coachella, but I think there's a uplifting experience from either any way that you listen to music. And I really believe that there's hope for our world and our country in bringing us together. Yes. Why do you think we're living in a time where people keep returning to older music? We've talked about it a little bit. We're talking about preferences, right? We talked about preferences. Like I prefer older music to newer music. I'm thinking the newer generation will probably resonate with the newer music, correct? But for people who, for generations that like the older music or for us that we keep going back to older music, why do you think that is? First of all, you're correct in that when we first started at Bryno, think new music was responsible for 80% of record sales or listens or whatever. And older music was 20%. Eventually, it got to be 50-50. Now it's turned around and it's 80% old music and 20% new music. But you have to remember that in a sense, what's it called Spotify, it's very democratic. Every song pretty much ever made is there. And people can push a button for a 60s music or a current death. It's easy to discover, it's much easier than it's ever been to discover older music. And so when people have the power of everything. You know, they'll go back to obviously people we prefer to listen to over music. Well true it's also I don't say maybe because I'll be biased if I say older music is better than what we have now because of these are meaning to the lyrics for example talking to someone last week and we're saying we miss how R&B videos would have them singing in the rain we don't have that now not bridges no hooks and songs it's a shame. Yeah great good I can say you know I my favorite music has always been blues R&B soul and you know I'm soul school to me the greatest rhythm and blues and soul music was in the 60s now I look back on the 70s and say wow that was amazing but it wasn't even close to as good for me in the 60s because it started it's where production started getting messing with the songs and being more important than the melodies the lyrics the harmonies etc. Right you decided to reissue music to rediscover music correct correct what was it like a test I would you how did you decide which older music deserved to be brought back was a like an emotional test or a commercial test how did you decide on that well we were such fans we knew there wasn't any music from the 50s and 60s and probably even early 70s and we didn't know about that we weren't very familiar with so we knew exactly what was in print was out of print we know we knew what we loved and therefore so we would the first step was was this good music do we love it and then the third question was then can we get the rights because we didn't us we would have to license the rights other people would own it from there the other thing we did a lot of was there's not a genre on earth including rap that we didn't do various artists compilations with so we would take just name any genre of music and we would do a box set of the hundred greatest songs of that genre or single volume LPs or CDs so we did a history of the blues and we did 20 single CDs all curated by great experts usually wasn't me we find somebody who knew the great you know the best blues songs and whatnot and and we did it because we wanted to be a great listening experience we didn't care we said that any kind of music you'd have we'd have to have the biggest hits they would go on the collection but then it becomes a judgment call and we then figure out what the best songs are the ones that would be the best listening experience we were music fans and we knew what we liked and we wanted to make everyone who listened to it have a great experience I've you have had a personal moment where piece of catalog music transported you somewhere unexpected sometimes when you're listening to music and it takes you back to a memory do you have one do you want to share with us which music what memory well my favorite song of all time was the first rock song that really got me it was it was a old standard done as a upbeat rock do up song called blue moon by group called them ourselves and I was 11 years old my name is Richard Fouce my best friend was named Joey Moose and we were sitting in the back of my mother station wagon and blue moon comes on and I can't believe my mom rolling in the car we're screaming we just can't believe this song put us into it it's crazy translate and static all and it's still my favorite song of all time it's it's crazy with a basement nonsense lyrics all kinds of yelp baby yet but you know harmonies and it has everything a great melody and and it was a number one hit and then the Marcel's with the group they had one more hit and that was it I have to check out the that Marcel's okay it was a form of music called do up it's a big form of music in the 50s said the very early 60s now that you're developing a podcast about music and social movements how do you see music functioning as a collective memory for entire generations I think music has been much more powerful and important sociologically than we realize and one example is there was a giant hit song in 1948 called nature boy by Nat King Cole and it was the number one song of the year and it was written by an actual nature boy who was in a group of musicians like a collective called the nature boys and they became they lived in Hollywood and West Hollywood and some of them actually live with their families outdoors under the Hollywood sign and they all believed in like a natural natural living in music and they worked in health food restaurants and health food stores and we just moved the West Hollywood and I couldn't figure out why is there so many still vegan restaurants and health food stores in West Hollywood and then I discovered nature boy and that's when I realized and that also all the kind of new yoga meditation Scientology saw that it was like an open area that would embrace all kinds of different thoughts so we didn't realize that these this group called the nature boys are responsible for you know you can say they're responsible for the natural foods movement for all the yoga meditation being so popular but they were the you know beginners of it so all starting from a song nature boy right and that and and nobody real you know it's not really known but it uh case of you know music being so influential that's what I want to talk about movements and whatever we're started by music and still today affect us in a deep important way. If music carries memory which we all know what do you think your work has helped preserve? Yeah until we started reissuing music music was only available in your memory because radio wasn't playing old music you were only playing the current hits there were eventually maybe in the 70s there started to be some old stations that had very limited very limited playlists so maybe they played at the most two songs by artists maybe more about the Beatles but that was about it so all the records were out of print the only way to even know that old music even how would you even know that old music existed unless you had a younger an older brother or sister or you know right and the music story I tell is for my 11th birthday my mom said making a list of the songs you you want I'll buy you buy record 45s I probably own three 45s I was going to double my collection so I listed all my favorite songs she went to the local record store to buy them and they were all this is songs that had just been on the radio a couple weeks ago they were all out of print they're out of print never with no ability to ever buy them again so in a sense it's almost like music memories didn't exist other than your head in the head yes yeah plus let's say you started listening to music in 1966 and you discovered I don't know you discovered I'm trying to think of a group that would be okay just James Brown so you discovered James Brown in 1966 you love his music his first three or four giant hits five giant hits are out of print so you have no way to know that they even exist even though they're plant you're buying the current you love James Brown you're buying his current songs but there's no way to find any history there's no internet there's no way to find there's no books on James Brown so unless you again you have an older older brother or sister to be no possible way for you to find out that even what songs he recorded any history or hear the music so in a sense they were robbing us of our you know memories through there through their lack of all they were all the record companies cared about was what's the newest hit that's it they didn't they thought they were sure that when something wasn't popular anymore had fallen off the charts that nobody got nobody'd ever be interested and they were couldn't have been more wrong it was the opposite yeah so we don't know even though we you and I both believe that music was much better in the last century maybe a lot of it is what that a lot of people didn't have the we didn't have the internet so it wasn't that easy to find how to discover old music and the record companies were older you know they were our parents they hated rock and roll they didn't really promote it and uh you know before the Beatles hit there'd be like these lulls like I said the early 70s if you look at the top 10 records the week before the Beatles there wasn't anything close to a rock record and the number one song was a song in french it was by a singing none and it was called the singing none i'm learning jfk had just died it was like a horrible time and in our country and we needed something to let the suck and here comes these four lively flats from britain with this great harmonies beautiful music that rocked and we won crazy do you remember the first time you realized music doesn't really disappear so when did you decide this was what you wanted to do to start reissuing music and bring old music back and what exactly inspired that too well i don't really know how it is today but in those days adults that are we're 30 years older that 20 years older than the kids who are really the young people that were really buying the music we're selling the music to those those kids so they again they just didn't have an appreciation for what we have their memories are francinatra big bands that's what they love and that's what they so they have no appreciation that how great we thought this music was So a band would have a few hit records. They put out an album by a big band the group would start having less and less hits And they dropped a group take the albums out of print So even if you could go to a used record store to try to buy an old Rolling Stones album or whatever with their greatest hits It wouldn't be done by somebody who cared about the music. It was all just commercial crap and the kids will buy anything So we we saw this giant waste land with all the great music from the 50s through the early 70s at a print And even when an in print done very poorly not from a fans perspective So that's where we were kind of revolutionary. We didn't realize we were but when you look back We'd love the music and we're fans They still reissue music. Well, I left I left right now. We sold it to Warner Brothers It's still going left in 2000 and started a new company called Shout Factory and there we specialized and did the same thing in television and TV and movies in DVD and then later Getting where we could get the rights for streaming and whatnot. We just merged. We sold it But I'm still involved as a consultant and we have a new company called Radio We've merged with a other company called Film Rise and we have 70,000 TV shows and films that we Distribute and we do the same thing. You know, we do it with love and care and so when we do a DVD And we've reissue probably Separate really beloved TV shows and films that were out of print Because the studios or whatever owned them didn't clear the music for DVD and streaming and all the new uses so they were out of print until we came along and did the same thing And we would do the best quality We put go to the original source tapes. We put do beautiful packaging and put lots of extras We'd always interview the cast and find out takes and things like that I have a second career doing what I had done in music with TV shows. I think last year reissued the the Monty Python TV shows And I'll put them all up on streaming the first DVD we put out was Freaks and Geeks that was that had never been you know I don't know. Okay Freaks and Geeks was this cold hit was only on one season. I would blow your mind on Six major superstar every character tell me actor or actress became a fishy Jonah Hill and James Franco Seth Rogan Jason Siegel Linda Cardinoni So at least five major superstars and the creator became a one of the biggest comedy directors and producers Chad Apato great. I like that. Is there anything else you want to talk about? I believe music has this incredible power in its best whether live or recordings to lift our spirits Make us feel good, but also make us feel in community with every everyone and I pray and hope that music can heal us Amen music brings back memories, you know You just remember things from the past money just transports you back to another time in your life It always takes you back to great times in your life. So well, not not all the time Not great times all the time I guess not heartbreak, but yeah, certainly heartbreak But yeah, still gives you that warm feeling even though it depends on where you are in your healing journey, right? Exactly, right? Well, because I'm happy people tell me you know what I'm not ready to shed this memory And I don't even want to listen to particular kind of song because it brings it brings back an awful memory and I understand that Music is just so powerful and I have a question for you. Yes, so take a song that you love and you keep going back to Mm-hmm depending on where you to be songs are like living breathing organisms Absolutely, so depending on where you are today You might listen to it and it brings back a painful memory, but mm-hmm five years It brings something else back or you hear something and it moves you to another. Yes, somewhere else So so I'll do that all the time. I'll kind of put a song away for five years and oh, let me remember that song I just can talk about it. Yes, I go back and I have a completely different relationship with it Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your perspective on your story There is something powerful in the work you have done and you're still doing, you know Not just in preserving music, but in allowing it to keep living evolving and reaching people in different ways over time I really appreciate you taking your time to be here. Thank you so much Richard And to everyone listening Thank you for spending this time with me with us whether it's a song you've held onto for years or one You've recently rediscovered. I hope this conversation stays with you the next time something familiar finds its way back Until next time I'm dainty pay attention to the songs that find their way back to you You