RELOADED | 35: Poltergeist Activity

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As you lie, my heart. They're sticking in the shadows. It's called phobia. Make sure things are clear. First of all, for the rest of the world. You guys hear that? Please help me. Okay, I reloaded. Welcome to the show, everybody. I am your host, Tony Merkel, and I am really glad that you're here. I'm glad to be here. If you've had an encounter or a story you'd like to share with me on the show, go ahead and shoot me an email. Or go to the website, theConfessionalspodcast.com. Hit the connection section and you can reach me that way as well. If you're on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram, go ahead and look me up there. Friend request me. Or look up the Confessionals on Facebook and go ahead and like us there. We would greatly appreciate that. Tonight's show we have Tim coming on and Tim has actually had paranormal activity in his family home growing up that yielded poltergeist activity. And then later on he shares his UFO encounter and his brother's big foot encounter as well. So without any further delay, let's bring on Tim and hear what he has to say. Okay, it's not going to have a great guest coming on. Tim contacted me a little bit back and he shared with me that he had some experiences that he's had basically throughout his entire life. And they range from anywhere from paranormal to a cult to a UFO to more. So Tim, how are you? Good, how are you? I'm doing well, man. So you said to me that you had a paranormal experience and that happened when you were a kid. Would you want to start there and walk us into that? Sure. My brothers and I have four brothers and my mom and dad moved to a house in Seattle. Well, I think I was about first grade. I must have been in first grade because that's the first grade I can remember attending there at school. And shortly after moving in, funny things started happening in the house. It became apparent to us after a number of those things that there was probably a ghost in the house. It wasn't a ghost that was bad or negative or scary. It was more of a playful ghost. Than anything else. But a number of experiences that kind of demonstrated us that it was there and it was real. One of the major experiences that we had was during Christmas, my mom liked to, my mom liked to, I'm sorry, decorate and make a big deal out of Christmas. We were sitting there one day one night, I'm sorry. And there was a mantle piece, a centerpiece and the mantle and it just lifted up off the mantle and went out a couple feet from the mantle and stayed there in the air for a while and then dropped and broke. And my dad saw it, my mom saw it, my brother saw it. And that was one of the introductions to the playful spirit. Wow. And then my mom, I'm a Christian now. So I would never tell anybody to do this. But at the time I wasn't and I don't think my family was either. And she got a Ouija board and tried to find out if she could contact whatever spirit was in the house. And they actually did. And the spirit said it was a young boy. And at one point we knew the name, but I can't remember that anymore. It's been a while. But she found out through the Ouija board that it had, there had been an accident in the house like in the 30s. It was an older house. And he had been brought into the house after or a boy had been brought into the house after the accident and apparently died in the house. According to the Ouija board and then my mom went down to the city and started researching it and said she found evidence that that was in fact true. So I don't know. I was only a kid. I don't know how much evidence she found. And I never really asked a lot of questions. But that was what we just assumed it was this little boy that just wanted to hang around. Wow. So when your mom broke out the Ouija board, did activity in the house kind of pick up after that or was it usually more business as usual? I don't think so. I think it stayed the same. There were always little things going on that we didn't understand. But I don't think anybody, well my grandma didn't like it. She was, my grandma stayed there one night and something was under her bed and she thought it was our dog's coffee. He used a little poodle and he thought he was under the bed messing around. So she told him quit messing around, get out of there and nothing happened and then he started making noise again under her bed and she got out from out from the bed and looked at underneath and there was nothing there. So she packed her bags, called the cab and moved left and said I'm never safe here. Wow. She is the only one that I know of that had a negative experience. But the rest, everybody else, it was either interesting or a nuisance, but it was never a negative. Okay. And my brother was very young and my mom used to, it was an old house and there was a drawer where there was flour in the drawer where they used to keep flour in the drawer. And I'm not sure why it was for some baking purposes. And my mom used to take my brother in there and set him in the drawer and let him play in the flour while she was cooking. So she didn't have to be in two places at one time. And so he had a good time playing in the flour and but then when she would come down the stairs in the morning after we were sleeping, she would find the flour door open and a bunch of flour all over the floor. And she would get mad at my brother. So why are you playing the flower? You're not supposed to do that when I'm not there. And he said, I wasn't playing in the flower. There was, I was never in there. And it seems to be that he enjoyed playing with flower in the kitchen. And he was heard multiple times in the kitchen downstairs in the basement when nobody was there. And then that's one of the experiences I had that was very direct. I heard him in the kitchen playing with pots and pans. When I knew everyone in the house was in bed asleep, I was the only one awake. And so those things happened often. But I wasn't scared. It was weird. I didn't want to go in the kitchen. But I wasn't scared. I just was-- it was interesting to sit there and listen. I was in my bedroom. And whatever was doing that was making noise with pots and pans in the kitchen. And we would find the stove turned on and turned on at night. And the dryer and washer would go on sometimes by themselves. And you would hear things downstairs in the basement when you were upstairs in the main floor, watching television or something. Ant told me that that happened to her quite often. She was about 16 at the time. And she babysit us a lot. And she would hear things like that quite often. So there was a lot of stuff like that. And one time my brother said he actually saw a little boy. My dad was in the main floor bathroom, guest bathroom, shaving and getting ready for work. And my brother was at the top of the stairs. Looking down, and he saw a little boy walk into the bathroom with my dad. And it's funny because he tells me how he felt as a child. He was maybe six. He felt mad because this other little boy was getting attention from dad, not him. So he waited a few seconds, and then he walked in to find out where the little boy was. And he asked my dad, where's the little boy? And dad kind of prupued it and said, come over here and play with me. And just so he didn't give it any the light of day. So-- but he saw that. So those kind of things happened a lot. Did he say what the little boy looked like? Just that it was about six years old and had old clothes on. It's kind of clothes that you would have if you were from a different generation. And-- but no, you didn't tell me too much about specifically how he looked. He just said he was a little boy. And he was jealous of him because he was in the bathroom with his dad. OK. When you heard the pots and pans going off in the kitchen and everything, you said you weren't scared, but you didn't want to go into the kitchen. Did you ever feel prodded at all? Like inside did you think, at a curiosity, just kind of wanted to go and look? That's the funniest thing, because I didn't. I just know I was sitting there on a chair in my bedroom listening to something going on in the kitchen. And it was more curiosity. But I didn't want to go look. And I don't know why, because my brother asked me that too. He said, why didn't you go look? And I said, I don't know. And I don't remember being scared. I know I wasn't scared. And I'm wondering if I just thought, oh, that's just so and so. And it's just interesting listening to play with the pots and pans. That's the feeling I get when I think about it. But I was never afraid. At that point, with it being in your house and stuff, I guess it could have been just kind of like old hat kind of thing where you're just kind of really just used to this. We were used to it. And it was. We just assumed he was living with us. And I think everyone just took it for granted and didn't make a big deal out of it. We have, both of us have gone back, my younger brother and I, to the house. About three years ago, I went back and I went up to the door, knocked on the door. And the gentleman came to the door and I said, hi, I introduced myself and said, I lived here when I was a boy. And he introduced himself and we talked a little bit. And I said, have you, do you ever hear anything? Do you ever see your hear or experience anything weird in the house? And he just said no. And then at that point, our conversation was over. He didn't want to talk anymore. So I said, I said, OK. And I left him alone and I didn't make a big deal out of it. But my brother said he went up. And he's a contractor and he works in the city still. I'm not there. I live in Texas. But he still works in Seattle. And he said he stopped by there one day. And he pulled up in the truck and started talking to the guy at the house. And his boy fell down and got hurt or something. And he had to stop talking to him and attend to his boy. And that ended the conversation. And they went in the house and he went on. He thought it was interesting that as soon as he started talking to him, the little boy got hurt. And I don't know what to make of that. Yeah, probably just a coincidence. But it was just an interesting experience. And it's never happened since. And it never happened before. So it had to be something related to that house. And we just accepted it as part of a live in there. And we're never afraid or didn't think too much about it. Took it for granted, I think. Hey, guys. Yeah, I wanted to ask you before we move on to the other topics here, with the whole first story you shared with the mantle, was what it felt? What was the Felgen? Was it a vase or something? Yeah, it was like a mantle piece with flowers and a decorative type piece. Whatever it was, it broke on the ground when it hit the ground. OK, so when that first happened, everybody's there. Everybody saw it. Was that the first time you guys saw something like that in the house? What was everybody's reaction to that? Because I was young. I can't remember if it was the first time or the second time. I can't even remember if it was before or after the Ouija board incident. I was just too little. I was the first and second, third grader. But it was a big deal. And it was something that everybody remembered. And so it made a big impression. I'm just not-- I just don't remember if it was before the Ouija board or after the Ouija board. OK. But I remember distinctly the Ouija board spelling out names and explaining incidents. And it was pretty amazing. And that was-- I didn't know anything about any of the stuff before I saw that happen. And since then, I know that you don't mess with those things and you're opening up doors. You don't want to open. But luckily, I don't think we opened the door that we didn't want to open it. And then I don't remember ever doing it again. I got you. Do you think that this entity wanted attention as in, hey, I'm here still, somebody pay attention to me? Because that's kind of like how it sounds. I mean, he did things to get your attention. And it would also do things that it saw your brother do, like, play in the flower drawer. Yeah, I think that it was. I think I don't know why what ghosts are. And I wish I could understand it better than I do, but I don't. We all do. I think there are some demonic elements to it, but I don't think they're all that way. And I think in this case, it may have just been a little boy who died before he thought he should die. And he still wanted to be a little boy. And-- And that, I don't know if that makes sense to you or not, but I don't think it was malevolent. I think it was just, and maybe someone who wasn't ready to go. And, but that's not easy to reconcile with Christian beliefs, at least as though as they are often portrayed. But I think there are things out there we just don't get, we just don't understand. And the best thing to do is remain humble about it. And in this case, I think it could have been something like that. Yeah, well, I mean, you bring up the whole, you know, your faith and trying to reconcile your experiences with your faith. And, you know, I know I've talked about, you know, my different ideas and stuff like that on the show before. But I would say this, that in the first Samuel chapter, I think it's 28, it talks about Saul, the King Saul going to a, I forget how the Bible describes it, but I think I just say for lack of better terms, a medium or a witch or something. And he contacts the dead prophet Samuel. And it's, it talks about it in the Bible. It talks about how he tricked this woman to contact Samuel, Samuel's spirit, ghost, whatever you want to call it. I think the Bible actually calls it a ghost, comes and talks with Saul and it literally talks to Saul as if it's an intelligent being that knows what it's talking about as if it's actual Samuel. So, I think there might be times that, you know, you're dealing with things that maybe not necessarily are demons, but actual ghosts of people because the Bible actually does talk about that. It does say that it's possible. I mean, it doesn't say, like in that chapter where it talks about that, it doesn't talk about how, you know, Saul tried to reach a spirit that could tell him things that Samuel knew. It doesn't say that Saul contacted a spirit pertaining to be Samuel. It said that he contacted Samuel's spirit, the ghost of Samuel came forward and it doesn't say that, you know, Saul was tricked into believing that it was Samuel. It doesn't say anything that it, if you read it for what it says, he contacted Samuel's ghost. And so when you look at it that way, I mean, it makes the plot thick and doesn't it? It does. And there's other scriptures that say, do not try to contact the dead. And then there's other scriptures where prophets from the past come and make themselves visible to people in the present. And it just makes you wonder. You just, anyway, I think the best thing to do is just be humble and not try to think you got it. I'll figure it out. Absolutely. And that's a great point because-- That's why I like your show so much because you're actually dealing with stuff that a lot of Christians would maybe look down on. And I'm fascinated by the whole thing. I can't help it. It's not because I have a weird perverse, you know, mystical desire to understand the evil of the underworld. I don't. I'm no interest in that at all, but I'm very fascinated by the paranormal. I'm fascinated by things that-- you know, supernatural powers and things that we see God move in supernatural ways. We see the devil move in supernatural ways that fascinates me. And I'm fascinated with UFOs and bigfoot. And I just-- all these mysteries, they just kind of add a little bit of spice to life to me. And-- but it's not because I am weird or something, you know, or-- No, absolutely. Or have this weird desire to delve into darkness. That's not my point. I just think that there's things out there that we don't understand that are beyond us. And maybe that's good. Yeah, no, absolutely agree with you. You know, even for me, for most of my life, I've been intrigued by these kind of things cryptid and the spiritual stuff as far as like, you know, what are ghosts and are they real. And, you know, the default-- I don't want to say the default answer, but I just feel like most of my life growing up, the default atmosphere surrounding ghosts and all that stuff when it comes to the whole quote unquote Christian response is that's not real. You shouldn't talk about it. You shouldn't-- Yeah. It's just ignore and it will go away. And that's-- that answer isn't good enough for me. And as an adult, I decided I was going to make my own calls on this. And I was going to look into things more. And the more I look into things, the more real it becomes. And I think that there are a lot of people out there. And whether you're Christian or not, just people in general that have experienced these kind of things. But they don't have an outlet to talk about it because who do you talk to? You don't go around at work and talking about this stuff. Well, I do. But I'm a little weird with that stuff. I mean, I just talk about people to people about stuff. But most people don't. Most people don't just go and say, you know, start talking about this kind of thing. And so that's why I think this kind of thing is so important, you know. And to reveal details that people just don't think about, they might know something, but they don't really put it into context like the whole idea of ghosts and a Christian and what they believe in stuff. I mean, even even the disciples were in a boat and they saw Jesus walking on water and what they call him when they first saw him, they called him a ghost, right? And and it's I'm not saying that Jesus was a ghost there. But what I'm saying is that was the first thing that popped in their head. And these people often treat the characters in the Bible as if they've never read anything in their entire life that they just, that all they were were these characters. But these were real people with real life experiences. They read books. They were educated on things that were not biblical context things. And when their first response is it's a ghost, that should be assigned to people. That should be a clue to the readers of the Bible that if the disciples, if their first reaction is that's a ghost, maybe ghosts are actually real. Maybe there's actually real things going on here that people are experiencing and you shouldn't just sweep it under the car and say that person's seeing things, you know. It's the same thing with Bigfoot. I'm a I'm a historian. I teach history. I understand the value of oral, oral reports and encounters, people telling what they experienced. And I'm sorry. You can't have people from multiple languages, multiple continents, multiple ethnic groups. All over the world, seeing the same thing over and over and over thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of times in the last 10,000 years with the same kind of evidence and have it be an accident. It's not possible. As a historian, I can't ignore that. Right. There's something to this. There's a lot of smoke. There's got to be some fire there. I don't know what the fire is, but why not go and look at the smoke? Why just immediately discount it because it doesn't fit in your perception of reality? And that's the experience I get most often. So I've stopped talking about it. I don't talk about it with my family. The only time I'll talk about Bigfoot is when somebody seems to have a sincere interest. And then I'll share my, when I know. But otherwise it's been very discouraging. And because I don't think you should just discount thousands of years of history and thousands of years of testimony. I just don't understand why you would do that. That's my problem. It's most people's problems when they care about that kind of stuff. I mean, it's just how can you do that? There's something there. They report the same kind of things. They smell funny. They scream in ways that are very intimidating. and make you feel them streaming. They vibrate through you. They have footprints. They have their huge, their hairy, their strong, they're fast, amazingly fast. Though how can so many different cultures and languages and people and continents report that and have it be and have it be some kind of, what do they call it when you're trying to pull something on somebody, a joke, a practical joke really. All those cultures, ethnic groups, languages, continents, Native Americans, about 10,000 years, they all were trying to play some kind of practical joke, really. They get to the point where you look at things. When you look at it that way, you really do start to see how silly some of the explanations are when people try explaining this phenomenon. It really is. It's almost as if you could hold a mirror up to their face so they can actually see themselves saying what they're about to say because it's like, do you really believe what you're about to tell me? It's very interesting. But let's get back to the Bigfoot topic in a little bit here because I know you have a Bigfoot story to like to share. That's fine. That's fine. But that is a very interesting story you shared with about your childhood and the house you were living in. As you got older, you went to college and you had two different experiences in college. But let's start with the experience with the occult stuff that you had experienced. What started there, how did that all come about? Well, when I got to college, I became a Christian and eventually started doing some evangelical work throughout campus. And one of the things we did was we had this presentation on rock and roll music. And we talked about some of the influences of rock and roll music that we thought were satanic or evil, motivated by evil. And I just want to sense then I've grown up quite a bit. And some of this stuff was not-- I think was blown out of proportion. I wouldn't say today that a lot of it was true. But at the time, I believed it. And we were just trying to help people see through some things that we thought were hurting them. But in the process of doing that research, I started researching the satanic Bible. And some of the people like Anton Leveid, founder of the satanic church, and some of the influences that we thought at least at the time were influencing some of rock and roll music. And in the process of that, I started learning things and delving into things that were kind of wavy, putting a weight on me, that makes sense. And I started feeling a way, a spiritual way, from the whole thing. But I thought in my youth, I thought I needed to know more. The more I knew, the better, more effective I would be at helping people. So I just kept studying it and learning more about it. And then I had a couple of dreams. And one of them was a dream that I know was a dream. And one of them was a dream that I'm not sure it was dream or real or a mixture of the two. And the first one was I was dreaming. The dream I dreamt, I was at a party. And I was-- we were just talking casually with other people. And this person comes into the party. And it was Anton Maveye, who was the founder of the Satanic Church in the United States. And nobody recognized him at all. But I did, because I knew, because I'd been studying this stuff. And he tried to fit kind of fit in. And so no one would really notice him. And so I kind of-- and I-- but I knew who he was. So I walked up behind him. And I started seeing there's power in the blood. There's power in the blood of Jesus. And he'd turn around. And he'd looked at me with the biggest eyes. You could possibly imagine. And he ran out of the room. And that kind of encouraged me that I was doing the right thing. But that was such a graphic dream. I'll never forget it. And that was the one that I knew was a dream. And you wake up later and go, wow, that was interesting. The other one was a dream. And I'm not sure it was a dream. And I was in my room in bed. It was in the afternoon. I think I was taking a nap after classes. And I felt like skeletal hands reached up through my bed, grabbed my throat, and started pulling me down into the bed. And I could physically feel myself being pulled down into the bed. And I struggled with it for a little while. And then I just said, in the name of Jesus, I command you to leave. And as soon as I said that, the hand let go, and I sat up in bed. Like I had been resisting it. And as soon as they let go, I couldn't help but sit up. And I cannot tell you to this day how much of that was real and how much of that was a dream. But I knew that only the blood of Jesus, the name of Jesus, could fix it, and it did. But I'd also showed me-- I got to quit reading this, researching this stuff. Because if you know the real thing, you don't need to know. Counterfeit, the way you teach people to recognize counterfeit is you teach them what real dollars look like. And I-- from that point on, I quit delving into the occult to learn about it. I quit reading anything about the Satanic Bible. And I figured if I needed to deal with that, I could deal with that by knowing who Jesus was, not by knowing more about the occult. But it just made the whole thing seem very real to me. And I to this day that I know the power of the-- the name of Jesus. Yeah, that's very interesting. And I've heard that many times, but people say that by claiming the name of Jesus when they're being attacked like that, it helps them. Now, when you said that you're not sure if you were dreaming or not, when you felt the release-- and I think you said you sat up on your bed-- at what point do you think you're confident that you were consciously awake? I was conscious when I sat up. And I remember everything very clearly. I remember the hands on my throat. And I remember feeling that I was being pulled down. I just don't know if I was dreaming that or if it was really happening. If it was really happening, there would have been obvious physical limits to pulling me down, because I'm not going to pull me to the floor. But it felt like that's what was the intention. Was there markings on your body? Because there was no markings. OK. A few episodes ago, I want to say-- man, I can't remember-- a couple weeks ago, I had an episode on where a guy described that he was being pulled off his bed by these entities. But he said that it was like they're pulling something out of him. Like it was like they were trying to, they're pulling his inner being out of his body. I remember, I listened to that every member. Do you think that's maybe a possible similar situation? I didn't sense that. I sensed a threat. I sensed an anger. Then I was threatening them in some way and I was being, they were attacking me. That's what I sensed. But I do enough to immediately call on the name of Jesus and that ended it immediately. So I made, maybe had I not done that, I may have experienced something like that. But I felt like I was being attacked because I had been in a way threatening the enemy. And I also feel like I was opening myself up to it by entertaining a lot of the stuff that I was reading and looking into. So that makes sense. No, it absolutely does make sense. I mean, the things that you mess around with definitely have a direct impact on your experiences with the spiritual realm. I mean, that's the positive and negative thing. I mean, it really is. So that definitely makes sense. Are you the kind of person that normally remembers their dreams? Because for me personally, I don't remember. I don't remember very many. And if I do, fortunately, I remember enough to tell my wife about them in the morning and then I forget them before the end of the day. So I, and often usually they're just weird. They don't make any sense to me. That's probably why I don't remember very well. So, but these, these ones, I'll never forget. Right. Yeah, I'm not the one to remember my dreams as well. My wife, she remembers every dream she's ever had. I mean, some blueble. She's like a book. And I just find that interesting how some people can remember, some people can't. But it also, you know, lends to how real this situation was. You know, if you were dreaming, it was a dream. Why do you remember it so well compared to the other times that you dream? Because there's actually, there's only two times my entire life that I can actually recall a dream I had. There's only two dreams I can remember. And they're both dreams that had to do with evil, satanic evil in my dreams. And I know they were dreams because of the details in the dreams. Like, for instance, the first dream that I ever actually remember, I remember it happened when I was a kid. And I remember this to this day. And all it was is a recurring dream where I had tattoos appearing on my body repeatedly every night. And they were like these, these symbols. And I didn't know what these symbols were. But they were like, you know, swastikas and crucifix and like different things like that. When I was a kid, I didn't know what it meant. I just remember telling my parents about it. I remember sitting in the back of my parents car driving somewhere and telling them that I'm having these dreams and told them what I was having these tattoos. And I think they're evil symbols. And I don't, I remember there, I remember their reaction was shock and also, what do I do with that? You know, they didn't know what to do with that. And so, I think they probably said, pray about it or something. But then the second dream, and this is a dream that I haven't really told a whole lot of people about just because it hasn't really come up. And I'm not against sharing it. So I guess I'll share with you now since I'm on the topic. When I was in college, my wife and I were dating, I think. And I had a dream where I was at my church and I walked downstairs into the church basement where they had like a big fellowship hall and there's a kitchen down there and there's an office. When you come in through the doorway, down the stairs, you make a left into the doorway and you enter into this big room. And you know, there's different rooms coming off of this one big room. And to my left immediately is an office down there. And in my dream, I come down, I go downstairs, the office is to my left. I look to my right and my dad is standing in the middle of this big room just with his dead stare on his face just looking right at me. No emotions, nothing. Just like an empty shell of my dad. I don't remember, I know I said something like that was wrong or something like that. But I remember to my left that office that was there. It got really dark. And all of a sudden, I'm now in the middle of this big room. And my dad's further away from me still. And this room got really dark and these shadow hands, like these long, creepy, demonic looking shadow hands came out of the this office in this like black cloud and just came towards me. And like it was like these hands were crawling across the floor and like reaching for me and they grabbed me and they started dragging me like I'm now on the floor. I don't remember falling. But I remember I'm now I'm now on the floor being drug into this office by these like evil shadow arms and hands. And they're like all over my body and I'm screaming for my dad to help me and he's just giving me this dead stare just staring right at me with this empty look like there's nothing he can do to help me. And it was like it wasn't like he wasn't even there. He was just like a shell of himself and then I woke up and you know for a long time that dream has haunted me. Did you did you say at one time that you had your dad had been abusive? Is that your story or was that someone else's? No, I never I never said that my dad was abusive. It must have been somebody else. Someone somebody was saying that. Okay. Okay. Well, that must have been someone else. Yeah, no, it wasn't me. I never said that me. My dad were really good friends now. In fact, we were for the same company and everything. No, but it that dream had a guest on once that said that and might might have been. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So. But yeah, that dream has for a long time, I thought it meant one thing. And now I believe that it means a totally different thing. But the meaning for that dream right now is still up in the air. So I'm not ready to talk about it yet because I'm still trying to you know seek the answer on that one. But yeah, very interesting though that I can remember two dreams out throughout my entire life. And I think a lot of people forget their dreams. And so when it comes to this, I mean, I don't want to say you weren't dreaming because you know if it's traumatic enough, you're going to remember it, you know. Well, I don't know. And they were traumatic and I remembered them. And and I'm like you, I don't remember very many dreams. I can't remember one right now if you asked if you offered to pay me $100,000 to remember another dream. I couldn't do it. So, but those two I'll never forget. So and and since I stopped looking into any of that stuff, I've never had dreams like that again. I got you. So it's really interesting. I mean, who knows, but I'm glad that you haven't had the dream like that before or again because that sounds terrible. So that was it was crazy. But yeah, when no way that's how it goes. Absolutely. So now that happened. You're still in college and you experience seeing a UFO. Were you alone? This happened. No, I was with my girlfriend and her mother. And I think either her sister or one of her friends, but I can't remember that for sure. And we went to a Rodney Dangerfield concert. Remember the guy who said I never getting respect. He's funny. It was really funny. And it was in the 80s, 1980s at the easily performing arts column, see him and watch at Washington State University. And we were walking to the car. And for some reason we looked up, I don't remember why. And there was a circular object that you could only see because it was slightly lighter than the dark, the night sky. And it was probably. It kind of looked like a checker piece, maybe even smaller than that. Because it was so high. And it just kept moving in a triangular motion over and over and over and it did that for 10. We probably watch it for 10 minutes and it would move in triangles all over the sky in a, but in a restricted area. It wasn't like everywhere. You didn't have to move your neck to see it. You could just stay looking in the same direction and you would see it move in little triangular motions and it did it for about 10 minutes and none of us could figure out what it was and eventually we just said okay and we got in the car and drove home and I don't know I to this day I have no idea what it was but it was interesting it was it was definitely an identified at least as far as I can tell and it didn't have any lights, zero lights and I'm wondering if someone was making some kind of shadowy reflection up into the sky but I can't imagine how you could do that so we just chalked it off up this something you can't explain and move on but that was my single UFO experience. Well yeah that's interesting because I've you don't really hear a whole lot of UFO experiences where people do not describe lights being part of the snow lights at all and completely it was completely just a different shade it was a lighter shade of than the darkness and so that was why it was so hard to understand because if it was lit lit up you would go okay obviously it was much different than the than the night sky but this was just very subtle and you most I'm surprised we even noticed it was that cell but we did and it kept going it probably kept going after we left too. So you left before it was done? Oh yeah we got tired of watching it because it just kept doing the same thing over and over and over and we couldn't figure out what it was and I think at the time we I probably just we probably just figured it just was beyond us to understand so why waste anymore time. I think we do that a lot as humans it just goes well okay and it just kind of it doesn't fit into anything we can't reconcile it so we move on to something that we can reconcile I maybe but we definitely watched it for about 10 minutes and then we went home and I don't remember ever talking about it again to anybody. Wow so that's interesting now let me ask you did this movement now you said you saw moving you know in a triangular formation all over the sky so it wasn't like in a fixed location creating a triangle in one location right? No but it was but it wasn't way over there where you didn't have to turn your neck one way and turn it the other way to see it to keep it if you just look to a general direction you would see little triangular motions and you couldn't you wouldn't even have to bend your neck because it was so high but I don't know what it was. Do you ever think that it could have been something that was part of a bigger craft that you couldn't see as much I mean you described it as it was a different color black so maybe it was part of something that was even bigger that you just really couldn't see because it faded in so much with a nice guy. It could have been I have to be honest I don't know what it was it could have been some military project I don't know I just thought it was weird sure and we didn't we none of us could understand it and I guess the only option is to just forget about it or be afraid we forgot about it but we didn't I didn't know what it was I just I don't I don't talk about it very much to anybody because it wasn't one of those UFO experiences where you go man that's amazing because it not lights and they didn't come close and the door didn't open and I mean it was just just a circular shape that was a slightly different color lighter than the night's guy moving in multiple triangular formations over and over and over that's just not real exciting night nightly news but it was interesting sure absolutely that's interesting I mean I've never I've never seen anything like that and like I said earlier I mean most people describe lights lights or something but you didn't have that experience so it's very interesting and I've never seen it since and I'll honestly probably never see it again but I love looking at the stars so maybe I will but probably not yeah you never know you never know I mean the more you look up the more you'll see so let's see here you had the paranormal experience that when you were a kid you had the occult experience and the UFO experience in college those are your experiences however you do have a big-foot story that your brother experience and he just doesn't really want to come on the radio talk about but you're more than willing to come on a talk form is that right yeah I'm fine as long as there's I don't have to say his name absolutely no it's fine so what is draw the draw up to this scenario for us I mean your brother comes to you and tells you this story what happened okay well he in the 1990s he lives he lives in Seattle and he bought a property in Union Washington which is right on the hood canal just at the base of Mount Washington and in Mason County and he bought a property there because he's a contractor and he he wanted to build some houses and he had a trailer there that he was living in actually no I think it was a small house that he was living in that had been there for a while and he was living there while he was building this house and he went outside one one evening and he smelled a really bad smell like a skunk a muskie you know dead thing type smell that is often discussed when you talk about Bigfoot and he smelled it he thought it was a skunk and he so he started looking around to see where it was coming from and about 75 yards up the hill and I've been there and I've seen the pole that it was standing next to he saw a Bigfoot standing there staring back at him and he said it's about nine feet tall and and when it saw him see him and notice him it screamed at him really loud so so and he the kind of scream that vibrates through you and he freaked out ran back to the house and grabbed his gun and locked the door he had a hand gun to some kind and but but he was he was pretty certain it was coming after him and he'd never seen anything like that had no interest in it had never studied it knew nothing about it so it was a brand new experience but because it was the smell that he saw it he heard it it's pretty classic experience and it just turned around and walked away he saw it walk away and but it freaked him out and he'd never told anybody about it until I asked him once if he'd ever seen anything weird that he couldn't understand or explain and then he told me otherwise I'd never even have known about he just doesn't talk about it and but I went up there that I was there this summer and I I asked him about it a lot because I'm pretty curious about the subject and so I went up and stood at the pole where it had been and I'm about six one about six one and the place where he said the creature's head came to was about three feet higher than my head in the picture so it was big and based on the research and I don't I hate that word research I'm sorry based on the reading that I've done about encounters I've only read about them I've never have gone out and seen one or found one and I don't want to. But I think it was probably telling him to go away. It was just warning him, get away. I don't like it that you're there. And it was probably because he lives about his house. He's still there. And it's about 200-- it's about a half a mile from the water, from the ocean, from the puget sound. And it was probably going down to the water for some reason. And he showed up. Joe comes out of the house and shows up. But it probably prevented it from doing what it wanted to do. And that's why it screamed at him. And then it left. So anyway, so that's what happened. And he seems to think at the time when he was living there, it doesn't exist anymore. But at the time when he was living there, there was a sewage area up above his house, further up the hill, where they dumped a lot of sewage. And because of the dumping of sewage, it caused a lot of seeds went into the ground and grew. And there was a lot of tomatoes. And they called it the tomato fields. And he seems to think that a lot of the wildlife congregated around there, because there was so much vegetation. And that it was coming down from there toward the water. So-- but he doesn't want to talk about it, because he thinks people think he's crazy and stupid. And he knows what he saw. And he doesn't care if anybody believes it. So I don't ask him to do something he's not comfortable with in terms of talking to someone about it. Sure. Yeah, it's understandable. It can be a very traumatic experience. I mean, I'm assuming he didn't believe in Bigfoot before I saw this thing. Not at all. And he has no interest in ever seeing one again. He gets mad at me when I talk about it. Isn't that funny how some people see these things and it makes them dive into the topic? And some people it scares them away for life? Yeah, he has no interest. He doesn't want-- he's talked to friends of his that have had experiences with them in certain areas. And I've talked to him about, well, let's go to those areas and spend the night and see what happened. And he goes, she's no way, buddy. I don't want nothing to do with it. He said, you see one and you won't want to do that. So I just take it-- you know, that's what-- well, I've never seen one, so I can't say that otherwise. But I imagine it could be a terrifying experience. I'm sure. I mean, when I first started looking at all this stuff and I had started my Facebook group, and I started getting a lot of people coming into that group, Pennsylvania Sasquatch Research. And there's growth there. And people were starting to talk to me about what they saw. And it was shortly after I started this group on Facebook that I mentioned-- I forget how the topic came up. But somebody that I go to church with told me they saw one. And I was like, are you kidding me? Are you serious? And he said, yeah, he shared with me his experience. And it's funny how he doesn't talk about it. And he doesn't really care to talk about it. But I think that there's a lot more people out there that have experienced these things. And they just choose not to talk about it. Because there's been several times now, over the last few years, that people in my real life-- every day, not the online thing, but my everyday life-- to have told me that they saw a big foot. And these are people that I trust. They're not joking around. They're being dead serious. And so it makes me wonder how many people out there are seeing these things. And just not talking about your brother. Well, there's a lot of them. It's funny that I think if you say you saw ghosts, people were much more likely to accept that than if you said you saw a big foot. Yeah, absolutely. And I think they would just kind of flow with that, but they would mock if you said big foot. And I've gotten to the point where I don't talk to anybody about it. And when I say, have a Mr.-- seem to have a sincere interest. Because I'm tired of being poopued on the deal. So my-- it fascinates me. I think it's a really interesting topic. For sure. Absolutely. And I can understand that. It's the big foot community can be an acquired taste, you know? [LAUGHS] But-- yes. You're either too negative or you're too positive. Right. One thing I'm finding out is you can't please everybody. I mean, between my YouTube channel comments, my podcast comments, my Facebook page comments, you learn real quick that you're not going to please everybody. It doesn't matter what you say. Somebody's going to have a bone to pick with you. And you just got to learn how to pick your battles. And so when I see that somebody's being negative and things like that, I usually don't respond. I say usually, because there are times that I do respond. And I regret it afterwards, because I don't have the time to go back and forth on this online-- you know, back and forth. Who has time for that? I don't have time for that. So usually it ends with them jabbing me. And I just let it go. And they get the last word, because I just don't got time to keep going back and forth. Yeah, I agree. I just not worth it. So-- Yeah. And there's a lot of people that have a certain stake in the ground. And if you mess with their stake, they have a fit. And I don't think you can have a stake on the ground with this thing, because I don't know what it is. And I have some suspicions, but there are only suspicions. And I think they're well developed suspicions, because I've read a lot. But there's still-- who knows what they are. And you just have to be humble. It's the same deal. Well, why can't we just be humble and realize that we don't have it all figured out? And just because you're a scientist doesn't mean you know everything. You don't know everything. You know some things. And this is a mystery that I think there's so much to that I don't think we're going to know in our lifetime, in my opinion. So-- and I think at least regular people, I think the government probably knows more than they're letting on. But I don't know for sure that. I just think based on what I've read and looked into, that it seems like there could be a cover-up. But I don't know that for sure. But what I do know is that if it was just an animal, and they were on every continent and every almost multiple language groups and multiple ethnic groups, and someone would have got one. And if we haven't got one yet, either it doesn't exist, it is a myth, or there's something far more to it than just being an animal. And that kind of makes people nervous. Yeah, I'd say so. I mean, you have a giant creature running around that might be more than just an animal. Yeah, that's a little scary to think about. And it might be threatening at least at times. Although I think that's probably overblown too. But I'm sure that they've had their encounters with people and people have lost. Sure. I'm sure. I mean, same thing with any animal out there. And they've lost too. I mean, just like the example of the guy you had on the show. I mean, and I have a theory. I think that prior to the invention of gunpowder, they made themselves more readily available to people. I think gunpowder gave us the upper hand. That's a really interesting theory. And that's when they became very rare. And I think I believe-- I think the Native Americans prior to gunpowder had more interaction with them than we do today. Well, they talk about that. All that. All that is is a theory. I would never go and die on that beach. It's just a thought I had. Well, I think it's a really good thought. I mean, the Native Americans talk about having interactions with these things. And just the idea, I'd have to look into it. You know, I mean, as far as one was gunpowder made and where can we graph the sightings and do you see a certain dip in sightings around that same time period and things like that. I mean, I'm sure somebody out there could do that research. We talked in 1700s. We talked in 1800s. And there's probably hard to find to prove it because all you had was oral stories from Indians. And so, no, I mean, you can't put, you can't teach that as gospel. But it just seems to make sense that when they suddenly we were equal or that became a great equalizer that they would be less or a little bit more reticent to be around us. It's just a thought. Yeah, I mean, when we came, when we migrated to this country, we brought guns with us. And before that, there weren't guns here. There wasn't gunpowder here before that. So, there wasn't. And there are stories as far back as Daniel Boone, where Daniel Boone said he killed one. Yeah, you know, I don't know the details of that story. I don't know the details of that story, but I've heard of it. It said he shot it, killed it. And so, at least they were aware of it. And then some of I've read stories about Oklahoma where they were abducting some of the tribes, and then they were coming in and children and eating them. And they went after them, but they had rifles then. And they eventually realized they could kill them by shooting them, shooting in their head. And I'm sure that didn't go that, that if that happened. I think it happened. It seemed like it was a legit source, but I'm not certain it happened. I don't know, but I think it was a real source of that. I think it was a real source of that. I think it was a real source of that.