Religious Trauma, Addiction, Betrayal — Pastor Kim Tells All

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Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to Chime.com slash disclosures for details. Is this thing on? What's up, babies? Welcome to another episode of Dumb Blonde. Today, I have a woman who is so inspiring, so beautiful inside and out, so tenacious. Your story is just fascinating. The more that I have gotten to know her, the more I've gotten to know her. And I'm so excited to be able to just deep dive into it. And I'm so excited that you are sitting here on my couch, Ms. Kimberly Jones, baby. I'm so honored to be here. I was just telling you a second ago that you are my first pastor. I am shook. I have had psychics on here. I have had, I'm talking like every, I have had health nuts. I have had everybody, but I have never sat down with a woman of the word. What made you want to do that? You know, so I, when I first started this podcast, my two top people that I wanted on my podcast was, um, Dolly Parton and Joyce Myers. I am a huge Joyce Myers fanatic. Crazy, right? Everybody. So I grew up in a really strict Southern Pentecostal home. I went to a Christian school. I went to Bible camps. I mean, like it's crazy with my background that I came from, but long story short, my father was a rocker. Mom was a rocker. My dad married, married, cheated on the mom, my step-mom, and then had to like, you know, get into religion to prove that he was going to be able to make it in the marriage or whatever. And then we became like a cult. So it was crazy. So I say all that to say that I, when I wanted Joyce Myers on, um, she is the only woman pastor that I would ever listen to because I'm always so scared of who you invite into your life. And in the past year, I started listening to you because I did see one of the women pastors that I would ever listen to because I'm always so scared your reels on. Um, I think it was either Facebook or Instagram. And I was like, who is this woman? Because she talks just like me. She's sassy and she has so much fire, which is like, I love Joyce, but she's, you know, for the older generation, she's very modest, you know? And I was like, I love this because this woman speaks my language. And then I just started diving into you. And I was like, I need this woman on the podcast. Oh my gosh, bunny. I'm so excited. That does so much to my heart because you know, being a woman, pastor, it's, I, I, I get a lot of flack from even the church world, you know, because I'm in their phase and, you know, but I'm, I'm, I'm not judgmental and they want me to be judgmental. They want me to send people to hell and just, and because I don't to hear that God has allowed me to be used. And it is, I mean, I'm, I, this, this is the greatest honor ever for me. This is exactly what I want. I don't want to be in a church doing that stuff. I want to be right here. Yeah. No, and I love that. And I love that you are so non-judge judgmental because I base my entire platform on not judging anybody. And I have been persecuted, you know, cause I want to, I just want to show everybody in the world that no matter how terrible of a human you might be to the world, you're still, you still deserve love. And that's what you preach too. Well, and bunny, you look at God. I mean, you know, I guess, because I was raised just like you and that's so funny. Oh, we're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. We have a lot of similarities, even down to the three marriages, girl. I didn't even bat an eyelash when I heard that about you. I was like, Oh, this is my girl. And the church will ask me, they were like, why do you talk about that? Why do you tell that? I'm like, why wouldn't I? Yeah. It's part of your story. Why waste my hell? What's tea for them is testimony for you. Always. Well, I was, I was, what was I telling you? You, uh, we were talking, I don't even know. I'm just so excited to have you here. We have started this off. Great. I love this so much. Okay. The one thing that everybody zeros in on you is your marriages. And I don't want to do that with you because, and of course we are going to talk about them because it is part of your life, but I truly believe that people are influenced as children to make the decisions that they make as an adult. And anytime I hear an interview with you or I hear you talk about your, your childhood, you kind of gloss over it and don't really talk in depth about it. I might've like the meat and potatoes of what made you the woman you are that did make these mistakes and that, you know, that you've now learned from. Yeah. So you talked about your mom, um, and your dad being super religious. Can we start there? Oh, yes. Take me on that journey. So I remember when I was, um, I mean, right when I had, right when my mom had me, we were in Jacksonville, North Carolina, we were preaching a revival. My dad was like this fire preacher. He would like jump out of balconies and, um, you know, he would jump out of balconies and, you know, roll and walk on seats and pews. And, but he was so, so, so strict. And I just remember even as a little girl, I know that God knew that at about 43, I was going to hit rock bottom and find out who the rock is at the bottom. Now I hit rock bottom a whole bunch, but he knew that I'm going to let her go through all of these things because when she does, she's going to be a fireball. And we just always, I always felt like women, men were like, my mom was a wallflower, you know, like she looked like she was 90 years old. She, me and my brother would try to get her to drop us off three miles down the road from our school because she'd have an oatmeal box with her hair on top of her head because her hair was down to the floor. And my dad looks like he'd stepped out of GQ. Yeah. I've heard you say that. And I've also heard you say that your mom was so subservient that it used to make you angry. Why do you think it was that it made you angry that she was so subservient? Because you do have some of those qualities. Like I see how you weighed on Angelo. Oh, honey, I never knew I could do this. Oh, we're going to get there. I mean, he's a handsome guy. He's got swag. You guys are a good looking couple. We're going to bring Angelo in later, but you, I see with Angelo that you have no problem being subservient to him. So do you think that your mom felt that way about your dad and can you understand it more now? Absolutely. I think I was mad. You know, I think, I was because all the way back into, I mean, I was United Pentecostal and the reason I kind of gloss over it a lot is because all my family's still in it. Right. So, but I think it's very good to talk about it because I grew up Southern Pentecostal and it was pretty much. Yeah. And this is not me in any way putting anybody down who is in the religion currently, but what I experienced from that religion was a, I left it with so much religious trauma. And I'm talking like I had panic attacks my entire life be an anxiety disorder because I was worried if I did the wrong thing that I was going to go to hell. He was a mean God, wasn't he? It's terrible. And I mean, scared me to death. Yeah. And I just don't think that that's right that they do that. So I think if you did speak on it, I think that that's okay because look at where you are now. Now I do it. I do speak on it, but, and when I do, I get dragged. The church world comes after me. They're so mean. We actually have gone through it with the church people. I have to pray over myself often because I pastored a phenomenal church in Atlanta. Limitless Church is an incredible church and I love God with all my heart, but I don't like his people a lot of times. And so I just have to pray. I'll call my mom and say, mom, you got to pray for me because I want to, I want to, I want to, the hood part of me wants to come out. You know, I'm holy, but I'm hood too. Holy enough to pray for you and enough to swing on you. And so I think what it is is I think that me being raised. I remember going to church. I remember how religious those people were. I remember how less than women were. I remember watching my mother, literally everything that ever she ever did was for me and my brother and my dad. It was like us four and no more. And I got angry because I saw my mom, literally my dad would be sitting right here and my dad would just put his glass down on the table and she'd get up and go, ready, get us water. And I'd be like, dude, you got two hands and two feet. He would never do that. Okay. I think that's the difference is that he doesn't expect it. And that's why you love to do it because it's not an expectation. Yeah. I get dragged all the time because you actually said something one time you said an alpha woman loves to be submissive for her, her husband. And I said the same thing. Do you guys remember that? And I got dragged. I stood 10 toes down, baby. I was like, I was like, I don't care. Even if I'm wrong, I'm still going to stand 10 toes down. Same, same. That I was not, I was going to stand 10 toes down on it because when a man makes you feel safe, you want to love them. And you're just so thankful. So thankful. And you're just like, thank you, Jesus. Where did you come from? You know? And you know what? They love you so well. And I didn't really see that. I'm not knocking my daddy at all. Like my daddy, I was his girl. But about 25 years into their marriage, I was like, they're married. She had an affair. And I remember it just broke my heart. But, but let me go back to seven, seven years old. I remember sitting, we had church every night for starters. And, um, all the, all the ushers would just spank me. Cause I was always bad. Like if you're not the usher spanking you, Kim. And I was mad about that. Why are you going to let, I probably shouldn't say his name. Why are you going to let him take me out and spank me? But I was, just a mad child. It was a different time in life too. Yes. It was just that, that religion. But I remember at seven years old, we were in church and I had a lot of trauma. There was already a lot of trauma. Cause I remember coming around the corner in our house and we couldn't, we couldn't wear pants. We couldn't wear makeup. We couldn't go to the racquetball club. We couldn't go to anywhere. It was literally like walking through Sears. My mom would put her hand up like this over my eyes. When we walked through the TV section, cause I, when I demon is going to get you. And I remember I would always test that. Like I'd say, I'm going to the bathroom and I'd go sit in front of the TV to see if the demon was going to come out. So I was always testing those waters, you know? And I remember at seven years old, I was laying down under one of the seats like this at our church. And I was looking up at my dad and I was watching the choir and my mom was up there just leading the worship choir. And all these people were just standing there like this. And I remember thinking, oh my gosh, they're miserable. They look like they're about to cut their wrist. We're singing about Jesus. This whole church is miserable looking. And if this is what heaven looks like and God's so mean, every time we walk in the prayer room, my mother immediately starts rocking back and forth. And within two seconds, she's bawling, just nose snot. And, and I remember thinking, God, you are so mean that my mom even has to cry to get your attention. At seven years old, something shifted in me. And it was like, I just became an angry. I don't care if I go to hell. I don't care if, if church people don't like me. You can't do that, Kim. And I'm going to go do exactly what you told me I couldn't do. And so it was almost like the enemy had an assignment, you know, which he does a lot of times and he'll use people. And I just think I had wounds. I had a lot of wounds. I would, I remember coming home one day and my mother, uh, sitting on, uh, in the kitchen and my dad was trying to calm her down and she was just screaming. And me and my brother are sitting on the stairs and she's screaming, I can't do this anymore. And the church deacons had come over and let them have it because we went to the South Lake racquetball club. Cause you what? Cause we went to the racquetball club. Oh my gosh. And so it was just anger. Like my mom was having a nervous breakdown over these church, people. And so I think it was just layer after layer after layer after layer. And then it, it, it was just a place of whatever I want to do. I'm going to do it because I don't want to look like that. And if hep going to heaven means I got to go with them, the most judgmental, angry, hateful, hypocritical people that I don't want to, I don't even care if I don't go take me to hell. I couldn't, I relate to everything you're saying so much because I completely went through the same thing too. I had to wear, I wasn't allowed to wear makeup, hairspray. I couldn't curl my hair. I had to wear dresses down to my ankles. My mom used to sew my damn clothes and I was in high school. It's all in my book when it comes out, like it's crazy. And, but my dad would be hitting women up online to have threesomes. I would catch my dad watching porn, you know, like, and I would just be like, this is so, this is such a mind fuck as a child to, you know, have to sit there and cross your, you know, cross your T's and dot your I's and be holier than thou. But then when you go home, everybody's masks fall off. And I would see the same thing going on with everybody in the church. And it used to make me so mad that I got to the same point as you. And I was just like, you know what, God, I don't want to go to heaven. It's too hard. It's not attainable. There's no way that you can get there. Seems boring. It seems, you know, why would I want to go sit with a whole bunch of, I don't do that in my own life. Like, why would I want to go? I totally get you. As a teenager, how did all this religious trauma affect you? Did it, did it ever steer you into drugs and alcohol? Or did you start experimenting with things like that as you started? So my 18th birthday, I was dating a boy that, so back in those days, the church had missionaries. And so the missionaries we sponsored, my daddy's church sponsored, they had a son and they lived in Tepic, Mexico. And all I could think about was, oh my gosh, I'm going to get away from my parents. And I'm going to become a missionary in Tepic, Nicaragua, Mexico. And I'm going to, because women, that's what we did. We didn't go to college. You know, you had babies, you got married. I mean, it's just the way we were raised. And it's also that generation too. Like the women just never had any aspirations to do anything. But be moms, which there's nothing wrong with that. It's just not what we love. We love you. Shout out to all the moms, but we, it just wasn't in what we wanted. Yeah. And so at 18 years old, I remember I graduated and then I dated this boy for three years and we were just church kids. And then all of a sudden I marry him. We have this big old wedding. And my mom says, your wedding lasted longer than your marriage. Because when I got married, I wasn't thinking. Right. I wasn't thinking, oh my gosh, like I'm going to go to Tepic, Mexico. Yeah. Like that's 18 hours after the border. I am, I am the girl that in six, at 16 years old, I was, my dad and mom gave me my brother's little hoopty and said, here, baby girl, this is your car. I was like, I ain't driving that. And I went to Rich's and worked for Estee Lauder and bought me a BMW. Like I was high maintenance, but I could handle my high maintenance even at 16. You did the maintaining. Yes, girl. I was always like. Like selling suckers or something. I was an entrepreneur. I was telling everybody I could sell, I could sell fricking ice to an Eskimo. Like literally, that's exactly how I was. I was selling suckers from Shoney's at seven years old. We'd go eat after Churchill's Sundays and I'd fill my little satin bag and go to school and sell them and make bank. Oh, I love that. I just stole from the offering plate. Come on. I talked about it on one of the shows one time. Remember I talked about it. I took you guys by the church that I stole from. You did, yeah. Yeah. And I apologize to G. I apologize. I apologize to Jesus and I apologize to the church publicly for doing it. Okay. I love that. No, but it just, I feel like when you are so religiously oppressed, especially as a child, it creates so much religious trauma and rebellion, you know? Before you got married though, like take me through your teenage years because you always gloss over that. Because I wasn't really bad. It's okay. Like I was, listen to me. I was bad in, I didn't trust nobody. Right. Nobody get close to me. It was, I didn't have friends. Like it was like, I really did have friends. I had a lot of friends, but I was scared. I don't believe that because you have such a- I was always the DDA, the designated driver. Aw. And I remember at 14 years old, we were, I was the DDA for all the, I was on the flag corps and all the flag girl girls and us went out, we'd go out to Subway. It was a South Way. It was a place we'd all hang out. And so they would always let me drive their cars because their cars were hoopties. Yeah. And I had no shame. So at 14 years old, I need to tell more of these stories because these are funny. At 14 years old, we were backing up and I was, I had no business driving. Like, why are you letting me drive your car? Yeah. And I'm backing up and it was, we like the cars. The cars that go boom. We're Tigra and Bunny. And I just hit that gas. And I thought it was in drive, but it was in reverse. And I just nailed, uh, uh, uh, like, uh, uh, brick post box and it was like $3,000 worth of damage. And so I don't talk about that a lot because I remember like ruined all my friendship that year. I really didn't do anything bad. I was too busy getting married. married and, you know, going to Bible school. Getting married at 18 is young, too. Like, you're still a baby. But you got to remember, we didn't come out of United Pentecost until I was like 16. Right, right, right. So I was sheltered. Right. So I was scared to death to drink. Even Seagram's, my brother now. I was the complete opposite. I was like, oh, I was old E was my first. I got drunk off an old E in a drained out pool. Okay. I was, listen, let me tell you, wait till this book comes out. The first time I ever got drunk, old E, Boone's Farm, ditching, like Utah, Mad Dog 2020, you name it. No, my brother did everything. Oh, so, because your brother went the way that I went. Oh, honey. Everybody, he did. Everybody in the church, all the youth. I mean, and all our youth were bad, too. Yeah. Like, I was scared to death of God. Yeah. I was bad, but I was scared to death of God as far as like sin. Right. And I remember our youth would go get drunk and the whole youth group would be strung out drunk at a house. No. And I would be making sure everybody was okay. Yeah. My brother. I love that about you, though. Oh, yes. That shows that you have such a nurturing spirit. For everybody to say I don't. Really? Do they say that? Well, I mean, they think I'm rough. I don't gather that from you. I don't gather that from you at all. I see. You don't. No, no, not at all. I don't think I'm like that either. I think I'm gentle and kind and loving. No. I think that you, well, you're about it when you need to be, you know, when it's time to be soft. Like, we can, when you're like that, when a woman has those two qualities, you know when to turn it on and turn it off. Yeah. And I don't see you being. I just fight hard for people, I think. You fight, you're a lover. Yeah. So you fight, that's how I am with my whole crew. Like, you have to, you're the protector. You protect everybody. Well, that's what I did. I protect all of them. And I don't, none of them go to church anymore. Oh. Like, literally. Do you have, do you keep in contact with any of them? Oh, I do. Like, I'm, like, we had a tight, tight youth group. And there's maybe one out of 65 kids. Aw. Because my dad was so hard. Just, that goes into religious trauma. And like, we're not here to bash people that are, you know, practicing and are religious. But I always say that I'm not religious, I'm spiritual. Yeah. I think there's a huge difference. And I think there's like. Me being religious, you're literally just cramming stuff down people's throats. And it's this way or no way. And, you know, you're going to go to hell. And there's, you know, no other option. But when you're spiritual, you love people and you try to show them. Like Jesus. Yes, exactly. I mean, Jesus leaves all these amazing people and goes to that well. Where that lady is sitting there at the hottest part of the day. And it's burning up hot. And she's there when nobody else is there. Because all the Pharisees and Christians are judging her because she's been married five times and living with a man that wasn't her husband. And that's how I look at my life and people. I'm like, man, if God can do that, then why am I going to sit and be hateful to people and write people off because of their sins? Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. So you get married at 18 and then you guys are only together for a little bit of time. A year. For a year. And then you guys get a divorce. Because I was in Tapeek and I had to get my parents there to get me. So I could get home. Don't you hate that when you have to call the parents and you're like, oh, okay, here we go. My dad. And I promise you, I never drank. I never. I really love that about you. Like I was scared to death to do those things, but I was not scared to get married. I was always scared to do the things that in secret, you know, like people see your deeds, but God sees your heart. But when it came to like big things like marriage. Yeah. Let's go. Because you're a lover. That's why. I would just jump. I wouldn't even think. Yeah. You're a lover. It was like, who cares how many times you've been married? Like, I mean, I would just, my mom would go, Kimberly, what if, what if this isn't the right thing? Well, we'll just figure it out. We'll just figure it out. That's how I always looked at it though. I think it was just maybe just a generational thing. But buddy, you know how many people in this world have been married three and four times, but won't talk about it? Oh, for sure. But why wouldn't you? You know, like it's part of your story. So I'm like, girl, there are, like, even when I put those clips up of me being honest, the people that reach out to me and say, man, you, you, you've given me hope. And they'll just start going underneath 10 times, eight times. I'm like, whoa, there's always, there's always haters. I mean, I posted my mug shots the other day and there's people like, God, you have your whole entire face has changed. And I'm like, I love that. Thank God. Thank you so much. So getting divorced at 18, how did you feel? Were you sad about it? Or were you just like onto the next? Did it not register because you are so young? I was sad, you know, because I was sad because I remember my parents came and got me out of Topek. Basically they brought our youth group. We built a church while they were there. And then I slipped in that van and left with them. And he, the, my husband moved back with us and he stayed in the States with that, with me for about a year. And there's no way we could survive. You know, he was a baby. I was a baby. I didn't know how to cook. I was a diva. He was a diva. And, and it was, you can't have two divas in a relationship that never works. And he was a mama's boy, which is, we love mama's boys. Do we? I mean, I don't, don't come for us. Don't come for us. Mama's boys. Cut the umbilical cord though. Especially if you're in a marriage, you have, you cannot be a mama's boy in a marriage, but it is important. They love their mom. Of course. And respect their mom for sure. So I got back to the States and right when I got back to the States, I was like, the States, my mom and dad sent me to Bible school. They were like, girl, we've got a pastor that's going to scare the hell out of you. And I'm like, what? This pastor is going to really get you. He's going to, he's going to bring you to the feet of Jesus. You have walked through divorce. You're, you're, you need healing. Yeah, I did. I needed healing, but they found Pastor Rod Parsley. I've never heard of him until I started looking last night. Please. I don't know who he is at home. Can you give us a little rundown? So I love Pastor Rod Parsley because man, I've known him my whole life. Um, he is one of the truest men, loved his wife, loved his children. Uh, what you saw is what you got. Now he can be a little hard, you know, him and his mama both. That's why my mama sent me there. My mom and daddy sent me there was because they, they were scary. I'd hear him walking down the hall and I'd be hot, you know, because. I knew that they, you know, it was, you're going to, you're going to live right. You're going to, there's an anointing on your life. And as soon as I got there, I, they grabbed me up. I, I, for some reason auditioned for the choir. And cause that's one thing about United Pentecost people. We can sing, you know, we can't go to the movies. So we just sit around and sing. That's what we do. And so I tried out for the choir. And so from there I started traveling with Pastor Rod. And so it made him get to really know me. Before that, did you want to be a pastor? No, women can't pastor. So this was like your parents just kind of forcing you into this. They were forcing me to Bible school because if I go to Bible school, I can be a worship leader. Oh, gotcha. I can be a children's worker. I can be on the prayer team. Gotcha. Gotcha. But women can't pastor. I was raised, women cannot be pastors. And so I go and I start singing with him on the road. And he was just always like, Kim, there's an anointing on your life. Anybody I would try to date, he'd be like, oh no, no, no, you can't date. Can't date. Can't date. I was there for a year, maybe two years. And I saw the piano boy. And I was like, oh, I'm going to marry me a preacher. He's a piano boy. He is anointed. I'm going to marry him. And I remember being in Israel, singing on the Sea of Galilee, taping the Easter special for Pastor Rod. Pastor Rod has World Harvest Church in Ohio. He gets a lot of slack too, because he's always in your face. But we were headed back from Israel. I mean, that's kind of romantic, singing in Israel, the ambiance. It's kind of like set the mood for you to get married. I remember I was singing, I know the peace speaker. I know him by name. I know that. And it was talking about when he says, peace, be still all earth. And I'm up there just to sing and worshiping. And I remember I was like living like the devil going to Bible school. And I remember feeling so convicted out there on the Sea of Galilee. Like you out here singing about the peace speaker and you don't even know the peace speaker. Like you're out here singing on where Jesus was and you're over here. So God's always been dealing with me like that money. Like I had to finally give in because he was always after me. So what I did was all the way home from Israel, Pastor Rod said, I see you looking at that piano boy. And when we get home, you're going to move in with Mama Parsley. That was his mama. And she was so scary. Oh shit. Not Mama Parsley. I was like, I'm not moving in with her. All I could think about was he's making me move in with Mama Parsley. Cause he said, girl, you make horrible decisions. Do you feel like he was very protective over you? Very protective of me. And I'm just so thankful. You know, he saw an anointing on my life, which I'm like, this was so people now because I know that if I would have just listened. So I get home and at three o'clock in the morning, I packed my little Yugo and I moved to Atlanta because I knew this man was going to make me move in with his mother on Monday. And I left and that little piano boy followed me. So you didn't say bye or anything, you just up and left. The next morning, all the Bible kids students are sending texts with the script up on the screen. Kim Jones to the executive wing. That was the pastor's ring. I was like, I ain't there. I never spoke to him again for 25 years. Was his heart broken that you left? I bet he was just shaking his head like she's just going to ruin her life. When you finally did get to speak to him again, how did that go? Girl, it was, it was, 42. Cause I didn't preach my first sermon until I was 42. Cause I was married to piano boy for 18 years. Yeah. We're going to get into that marriage too. So I met him. So listen, I got back in, I really fell in love with Jesus at 42 and found God for me. I was at the darkest. We'll hear about that. And about three years in, Pastor Rod's ministry reached out to me. Now, when I was at Bible school, the greatest, last week was dominion camp meeting because we would sing and the curtains, the velvet curtains would go up and it was just like 10,000 people and ministry. And all of a sudden he says, we would like to invite real talk Kim back to preach at dominion camp meeting. How'd that make you feel? Oh, I thought Ashton Kutcher was going to be there. Oh, get on this plane. And Ashton Kutcher is going to be there. I was blown away, but God told me when I, when I turned 42, God told me whenever I was really getting myself together, man, I was finding God and I was on that hunt. And I was just, it was like a rapid bunny. It was like a rapid, I was, I'd lost all my friends in that season. And I remember I was driving this knockoff Bentley is what I call it. And it was a 300 Chrysler. And I was back at my mom's house. And smoke would come out of my car every day, coming back from Bloomingdale's where I worked. And I did a video that day talking to myself. And I was like, if you are in a place right now and you feel like giving up, don't you dare because you're this close. I was talking to myself because I'm sitting on the side of the road with overheating and I'm looking for God and I feel God, but I don't feel like I deserve any help whatsoever. That's why my car's on the side of the road. And so at that moment, I just was on there talking to myself and I uploaded a video and that thing went viral. It's always the ones that you never plan to go viral that go viral. And every single day after that, I did a video, but because of that, that's how come I'm so true to myself still to this day, because it wasn't, it wasn't the horrible Christians. That were, you know, because there's horrible everything, you know, in every place, you know, in every space, but it wasn't those people that were talking behind my back or it was the pastor Rod Parsley that had all the reason in the world to never have me back because I, I, I rebelled. This was my third marriage by now. Everything he said was going to happen, happened. And he said, I want you to come preach. Well, that's crazy because, I've only been preaching for three years and I don't even know that I had preached at my dad's church yet because he was still trying to get used to the women pastoring. I'd preached in Paula White's. I'd preached in T.D. Jakes's at the Young Adults Conference. I had preached at Creflo Dollar's for Taffy Dollar. So all of these big mega ministries were having me, but my dad was still having a hard time because my dad remembers I was nae-nae-ing and not pray-praying. Right. Right. And I'd already made such a mockery of the family for so long. I'm sure he was taking his time. No, my dad, listen, my dad loved me, but he, he knew the ratchet side of me still. Right. You know, I could still get up and preach and bleed in those other places because I was just going in and going out. And when I walked in that place, I remember getting off that plane bunny and they picked me up at the airport. And as I was driving to World Harvest Church to preach, it was like right before that exit, I look up. And there was a billboard and it was all these legend preachers. And then there was me right in the middle with a mohawk and a pink thing coming out. That's when I was preaching in tutus. I always was doing the craziest, like a fairy godmother. And I look up and I just started bawling. And I heard the Lord say, because of your obedience, because you put in that work, because you stopped allowing yourself. To be identified by people. And you just looked up and stayed faithful and stayed focused and stayed consistent. I'm giving you a full circle moment. And I'll never forget walking in and him walking in that green room and wrapping his arms around me. I got chills. Girl. I just, it was like, God, that was probably healing for me because I think all of us have baggage from that. Yeah. We go to a therapist forever, but what's she going to know? She wasn't in that growing up like you and I. She wasn't where the one true and living God that man would leave and go to that woman at the well. She never encountered that like what we did. And so I think when you see the hand of God that can take people with the worst past and create the best futures. But also to have such a man who is so scary to everybody else, just embrace you after that long, after you leaving without even saying goodbye and him just holding you, like I would have just lost it. And there's people I will fight for him. Like I am that friend. You listen to me. I'm that friend for even you bunny. When I call you my friend or I love you, I will. You, you killed who? Okay. We'll help you. I'm going to then take you to the cross. We're going to go, we're going to hide the body and then we're going to go pray. Yes. But that's how I feel about him. Because he he's hard. You know, he's, he's, he's, he's a hard, you know, like he'll, he'll yell it. He's been in the, in the news for yelling at staff and all this kind of stuff, but I know him and I know how he put his arm around me and how he fought for me because my exes all came out, you know, whenever I started really blowing up, they all came out with 1933 pictures, you know, and they would call him and he'd, he'd be like, don't ever, you lose my number. And he just always had my back. But I remember, girl, listen, he, he looked at my eyeballs and he said, I'm so proud of you. Real talk, Kim. Oh. And he said, you're going to preach your butt off today. He just always believed in you. Yes. He gave, but he came back. He gave you what your dad didn't give you. And that was really cool of him to have done that for you. And I think that's really special that everybody gets to hear that story. That's what you just said. And I think you're right. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. There are plenty of reasons we put off getting support. And for a lot of people, cost is one of them. With BetterHelp insurance, options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible membership of just $23 per session. And while we're reconsidering old assumptions, maybe there are a few others worth questioning too. And as women, I feel like we put so much pressure on ourselves to just handle everything we're supposed to show up for everybody. Keep everything under control. And I think that's moving and somehow never need help ourselves, but there's nothing wrong with needing a little support too. That's where therapy can be so helpful. Having a space where you can actually talk through what you're carrying, work through things and let go of some of the expectations you've put on yourself can make such a difference. If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members. Have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or don't live in the United States, you can still get 10% off your first month. Visit betterhelp.com slash bunny to explore your payment options. That's betterhelp.com slash B-U-N-N-I-E. That's better H-E-L-P.com slash bunny. Attention all new and existing members of the WDNC. I'm Melanie Sanders, and this is the We Do Not Care Club podcast. We got to midlife and realized we just simply do not care much anymore. Now we got to help each other make sense of hot flashes, dry coochie, chin hair, trifling families, brain fog, and bat wings. We are not alone and we will be heard. So come join the WDNC. Follow and listen to the We Do Not Care Club podcast with Melanie Sanders wherever you get your podcast. That's exactly why that still moves me to this day is because he didn't have to do that. He didn't. And I remember even walking into the church and everybody was up there and you know, they always had their, their me-me's, you know, their, their people take their computers and up there and put it up there before they get there and preach. I will never do that because I never won't. Why can't I carry my computer up there and put it on the front, on the podium? And so I'm walking up and I don't have this huge entourage like everybody else because I just was like honored. Like it ain't about me and all these people walking in so I can show y'all I made it. It was mad. I was bawling. I was just like, God, you've got to help me get this together before I get up there and preach. I was scared to death. There was 10,000 preachers that had been preaching for 40 years, 30 years. And here's this little girl that did everything they said she did. The woman caught in the act of adultery, taken before the Lord and said, stone her. And yet he got down in that dirt. That was Pastor Rod. He got down in that dirt and started writing. If you got some sin, if you don't have any sin in your life, then you cast that first stone. What he did for me that day, is he put me up there and just said, what are y'all going to say? Preachers. He led with love. He did. He practiced what he preached. He did. Yeah. And really after that, I was on Preachers of Atlanta, showed out for Jesus. So let's circle back though, because we left off at you getting divorced at 18 and then getting married again at 19, which resulted in you having your babies, becoming a mama. 18, Morgan and Lincoln. I mean, what was that like for somebody who came from such a crazy childhood, being irritated? I mean, how was that like for somebody who came from such a crazy childhood to be able to raise your own babies? Oh my gosh. Has it been healing for you or has it been triggering? I think it was triggering, you know, because I kept, I remember I, we backslid. Yeah. Like me and their father were worship pastors. Right. We both came from World Harvest Church and we totally backslid. We got church hurt and we're working for a minute, we're mega ministry and we saw stuff and it was like triggering. And all the way back, like, no way, man, we're not going to, we're not raising our kids under this. And so we just quit going to church. And. I feel like everybody goes through that though. Like anybody that has super religious trauma, like how we do. Yeah. It's like you go through a season of your life where you're like, you know what? I don't want to do this anymore. You leave the church. And I didn't want to fake it. You know, a lot of people will still get back in church and sing on platforms and hide their skeletons and live their whole life miserable. I just didn't want to do that. Like, God, I would rather, you know, disappoint you than be in church faking it and still disappointing you. So if I've got to do choose, then at least I'm just disappointing you. But I don't want to do the dog and pony show. Yeah, I get it. And so we quit going to church, but I'd convinced myself and I went and started an interior design company. I love that. And I decorated. You're like, you know what? I'm just going to become an interior designer. I was like, I don't need anything. I'm going to go. And boy, did I. That is when I started partying. Oh, so how did you just become an interior designer? Because I actually went to school for it to start getting my bachelor's degree in interior design when I was younger. And it was fucking hard. Excuse my language. Girl, I don't have degrees for nothing. Yeah. And you just tell people I can do it. They believe me. I love that. I love that. Did you just did you start your own company? Yes. That is hilarious. I mean, I love you because I had to. Honey, I was a girl and girls were, you know, we were supposed to be at home with our kids. I'm not going to do that. I'm a boss. I'm proving something to the world. I love that you figured it out, though. But what happened was my husband, my son's father, when we got hurt with that church, he went to bed. He literally went into depression. Oh, and we're in this house. He's the only one that's ever worked since we got married. We'd been married for, God, at this time, 13 years. We had two kids. And he's in bed. So it was like sink or swim and that hustler in you was like, OK, I've got to get up and make money. I mean, it was literally like he lost his mind. Oh. It knocked him. Was he using at the time? No. OK. And we weren't even partying at that time. OK, gotcha. And so this church, you know, found out this, I guess, a neighbor told this pastor in Ormond Beach, I got a girl. That is phenomenal. She she does great with color. And she just loved me. And so I was a makeup artist, not a designer. But she said I was great with color. And you got to let her come look at your church because he was need paint colors. And I went in and I don't know how, but I sold myself. Can you do drapes? Yes. Can you can you pick paint? Yes. Can you pick carpet? Yes, I can. And I went home and taught myself every bit of it. Got that whole church. That is now in Ormond Beach and decorated that whole church. And it was in this rich community. And so I went and started an interior design company. My mother became my workroom. Because remember, she made my church clothes. Yeah. I love that you unlocked a new era, though. Like it put a drive in you and you were like, you know what? I did great at this. I'm about to just drive it home. I love that. You know, interior designers make money. And you know what I did is I went and hired a whole bunch. A really good designers that were better than me. And I sit on the beach and just answer the phone. You're smart. You're a boss. Yeah. But I was really good, too. I was good at design. So I did do it for a little while. But then I got so big that I just had teams. But I went back and preached at that church, too. Look how God was working in your life, even when you didn't realize it. Like he's still provided and was like, you know what? Even though she's not going to church right now, she's at least pouring her energy into something. That's how God is. I know. God is like that. God is never, ever changing. He is just because we do bad things or make not even bad things. We do the best we can. Like I wasn't just out in these streets wanting to go to hell for real, for real. I had two kids. Right. I just had some stuff. Right. And I just stayed away from the people that it caused harm. I don't believe you can heal where you got killed, you know, or left for dead. And so I started decorating that church. And then I started interior designing. And my husband stayed at home with the kids. And I did that for eight years. Wow. You made a whole career out of it. And we got in with all these rich people that taught us about ecstasy. Yep. Oh, my God. The designer drugs. Man, they were swapping. I ain't never heard of that stuff. I was like, y'all are what? Swingers. Oh, yeah. In Florida, too. Don't go to the pineapple upside down houses. Honey, I made it. We made it. To the villages or whatever they're called. I remember. I remember. I remember. I remember. I was laying in my bed at night. I'd be like, God, are you still there? I just thought he didn't turn me on over to all this. And she's like, God, are you still there? He didn't turn me over to the pineapples. Oh, my God. Because I was sheltered. I was sheltered. I never knew. Okay. So let's deep dive here a little bit. Okay. You know I have to peel back the layers. So you and your husband started partying really hard. You guys started using drugs. And you guys also started swinging. Never swang. Okay. Never swang. Swapped. We never did none of that now. Okay. She's like, yes, no, maybe so. No, we didn't do any of that. But we had friends. Like, we were all around it. Like, we would leave. There wasn't no way. If that man would have ever said, because I'm this kind of woman. Yeah. You're going to let me. You're going to let who? What? That means you don't love me. Because I'm not sharing this man with. Nope. I will cut you. You know? My exes may be. Yes. But if I love you. If I love you. Yeah. I get it. And remember, I encountered that with my father. So I just didn't have a good trust in men anyway. Gotcha. But I love that you didn't judge people who were in that lifestyle. Oh, no, honey. I was best friends with them. Yeah. And I remember as soon as they all started getting real, you know, caught up, we'd dip. She's like, all right. Drunk and all. This is my exes. I'm on ecstasy. Jaw grinding. We're going home, honey. I look back, girl. You ever just look back and think about stuff you did? Honey. And think. I would have went to jail for a really, really long time. Yes. Yes. All those mug shots. There's more. But I should have had some. I'm sorry. I should have had some. Yeah. Because I think of like stuff that we did back in that era. Era. Yeah. When my little boys were just, man. It was a different life back then, though. It really was. I don't think, not that I'm excusing our behavior, but I'm sorry. If I could go back to the 90s and 2000s, I would do it all over again. I know it. So good. So different. I love that era of life. Even in the early 2000s, too. I don't know what's going on in the world today, but it's not the world that I grew up in. And it's just a completely different, you know, time. Yeah. So you guys are partying. Yeah. When does the party stop? When do you realize you need the party to stop? It was 17 years and 11 months we were married. And it was so bad. I remember my 30th birthday. It was that night. It was when all hell broke loose. Like, we'd been partying. Our house was the party house. My little boys were just. I remember my mom coming to my doorstep one night, right around my 30th birthday, and just crying. And she was like, baby girl, I'm praying for you. Like, this is just not you. And I'd be like, girl, I ain't never coming back to Jesus with a cigarette hanging out my mouth. Oh, no. And I just remember the tears. And so I'd just go drink some more so I didn't have to remember the pain that I caused my mom. Because I didn't want to be this way, but it was way better than those people that I'd encountered in the church. So it was either this or that. You felt a sense of freedom of being able to choose who you were in that moment. If you wanted to drink, you could. If you wanted to smoke, you could. If you wanted to drop ecstasy, you could. Nobody's gonna tell you what to do because those formative years, you were told what to do. And I wasn't even thinking about God, really. You know, because he wasn't thinking about me, I didn't think. I just wasn't even thinking about dying. Like when you're caught up in sin, sin will take you further than you want to go. Yes, ma'am. Cost you more than you want to pay and keep you longer than you want to stay when you do what I was doing, where it's just taking control of your life. And I remember one night, 30th birthday, and it was like the first time that I felt abuse. I was like, man, we are in trouble. Wow. And I remember that night, my mom calls me and she says, baby girl, God wants me to ask you a question. She said, do you want this in 20 years? And I was like, man, we were so far gone. Yeah. Like numb gone. Because you can't be raised in church and know God and not feel in your deepest, darkest, hung over. Yeah, have some conviction. You can't, not. Yeah, there's always a fear there for sure. Because you did feel God, even in those seasons that those people let you down. You did. You couldn't neglect that. And so I just listened to her. And at that night, I didn't know where he was. You know, I didn't know where he was. I didn't know what was going on. And I was in a very dark place. When you say you felt abuse, was it physical? You know, we were both physical. You know, just because it's my son's father, I'm so careful. Because I've changed so much. Trust me, I get it. When you have that, so much going on. Girl, it was just my mouth. Yeah, well, yes, I get it. I get it. I could slice you up and leave you for dead. I was so detached. Like I was so wounded that people that had been in my life for 13, 14 years would leave. And I would act like they had never even been there. Like I just had no attachment ability at all. I call it being a verbal sniper because I was the same way. Yeah. I would cut people off and just leave them like just so heartless. Like not even care. Like, I even think back to this day, did you care? Like, did you? No. Like, it was like, I just expected everyone to leave, you know? So it was like, I was like, peace out. Right. And then I'd walk in a room with them. I'd never even look at them. Like they had never been there. I would always hurt people before they could hurt me. Oh, yes, me too. Self-sabotage at its finest. Yeah. And so that's when it really started. I still stayed another four years after that trying to save him. I really honestly thought he's going to come to his grips. He's going to get it together. And we're going to go back. Was it just depression or was he in addiction at that time too? Oh, gosh, at this point it was addiction. It was just full-blown addiction? Just full-blown. My parents came and tried to go through, what's it called? Sober him up. He went away. It was just had a hold on him. Yeah. And I mean, I could party and then get up and go to work. You know, I was a party animal. I was a functioning addict myself. I was totally. And so my kids were lost. And I remember what finally hit the camel's back was one night, I remember it was this song. That just started coming on because I was all by myself. My kids were at my mom's house in Atlanta, and I was living in Orlando, Florida. And at this point, so much had taken place in this marriage. I mean, police, just holes in walls, just rage. And this night, it was like, I'm dying tonight. Like I knew this night I was going to die. Like it was so, it was at the top of rage. It was like the, everything came to a head. And that night, all I could think about was I got to get out of this house. And then I got to go where I got to go. And because I'd protected him, I didn't, there was nobody around. I mean, we had, I literally started this man a church trying to get him sober. Like if I at least, I mean, I went and found a movie theater, bought all the music equipment. He came church drunk. You know, I mean, and people were trying to sober him up. So he'd get up and do the sermon. I'm just trying to help him get his, you know, get his life back. And that night I thought if I can get up and get out, then I'll call my mom and dad tonight. And I remember I sat in a bush because the neighbors went to our church. And I couldn't go over there because I didn't want them to hate Jesus because of our horrific leadership ability. You know, because you've gone through that. Yeah. And I didn't want to stand before God one day. And he was like, girl, like all these people turned away from me because of your mouth, because you, you were double minded. Right. And so I just sat in that bush. I'm here about five o'clock. He left and I go and I call my mom and dad and they came to Orlando, picked up my home. It was a beautiful home that I had bought. And my mother came in. We patched holes where. And when, when, when, when the fights would start, they would just, he would throw just whatever. And I just put pictures over the walls. And she sat that day for 24, 48 hours and just started fixing the walls. And I remember my dad walking around telling people, don't talk to him. Like if you talk to her, she's going to have a nervous breakdown. Just talk. I was out of it. It was like, and I'm a strong woman and I was out of it. And from that point on, I remember listening to this credits important to me, like integrity is important to me. Even when I was out in the world looking for peace and looking for whatever I was out searching for. I still felt I got to keep up with my name and, you know, good character. And I got two boys that even always are going to need their mom and I'm going to be able to supply for them. And in this, but in the last six months I lost my business because it was, we were doing this. We were down to that place of, you know, I'm tired of you depending on everybody else you need. So I closed the whole business down, gave it to my designers because I was trying to do everything I could to save this marriage. Whatever he told me was going to work, I was going to do it. Yeah. And by this time, so I didn't have the company anymore. And I remember thinking I got this $500,000 house behind these gates and I'm going to lose it. I'm going to, I'm not going to be able to buy cheese with my credit. How am I going to sustain my kids? And do you know, when we were packing up that U-Haul, getting ready to pull out, a Taurus pulls up in that driveway and it is a beat up Taurus. And literally rolls its window down and says, are y'all selling this house? It looked like a yard sale because we had stuff laying everywhere. And my dad said, in fact, we are. He said, do you mind if I go in and look in, look inside? My dad let him go look inside. He said, I'm going to buy. I'm going to buy this house. Wow. He said, I'm an investor and I'm going to buy this house. And at 6 a.m. that next morning, we stayed overnight, 6 a.m. that next morning, that man bought our house. Kim. And it was like God at that moment started showing me glimpses of him. Because you were making the right decision. So he was like encouraging you, like now you don't have a reason to go back. Yes. Now it's just moving forward. Yes. And this is what he does for us. When everybody in the world lets you down. If you'll do it. If you'll do the hard things. Yeah. If you'll swallow your pride. Because that's what I had to do. I had so much pride. And I had to swallow my pride and move back in with the very woman that I married a man for to run away from. But look how they showed up for you. Oh, girl. That's beautiful. Now my mama, my mom and daddy, he didn't want me reaching his pulpit, but he loved his daughter. Yeah. He loved his girl. He's like, I don't trust you to be behind the pulpit, but you're my daughter. He's like, baby girl, you're still, you need to get your mouth, you still cuss a little. That was the only reason. He didn't want me to make a fool of myself, you know? Yeah. But now I pastor his church. Aww. But yeah, so I had to move back in with my mom and dad. I remember one night, Bunny, it was like the biggest, just humbling experience that me and my two sons that had everything, every new video game, every, I mean, I drove a Navigator, a Mercedes convertible. This beautiful house. We would have chefs cook for us or we'd let them, stofers pull up all the cooked meals and, and overnight those boys and had gorgeous bleach, you know, that, that long hair and they were just so cool. And all of a sudden when my dad comes, he makes them cut their hair. No. So it was still a little in him. Yeah. I've never talked about this part. He made them cut their hair off, their surfer hair off. and he went and put them in Christian school So it was like overnight, all of this stuff. And my boys ain't been to church. You know, I convinced myself we'd only been out for three years, but it had been 10. Right, right. You know, I'm on the back of the name for three years. It had been 10. Was that a shock for them? Like, how did they adjust? Well, because my mom and dad, we move in with them, and there's a revival going on with a guy named Todd Bentley or something. I don't even remember. I mean, obviously, I remember his name. Obviously, it was traumatic to me. And every single night, they are laying in the floor weeping with this tent revival, and it was every night. So my kids go from no church to laying in the floor, watching my mom and dad lay in the floor, weeping and crying every night. And my dad's making them cut their hair. How did they adjust? How did it affect them? How old? How old were they at this time? Seven and nine. It was hard on them. Yeah, I bet. You know, then they, of course, a year went by, 10, 11, 12. I said I was going to be out of my mom's house by then. And every year went by, and I was stuck. Because now I'm having to work a retail job because we're in Fayetteville, Georgia. I pastor in a town that is horses and cows, and there's not even a mall. There's a Belk. And so I had to go get a job at this Kmart on crack. Right. Right? Because that's all there is, and I got to take care of my kids. Right. And so. And it wasn't just you. You couldn't just up and leave like you had done previously, because now you got two little nuggets. And I was scared to make their own. There was really a fear of, I can't mess up again, because I got these two little boys that lost their dad and mom. Like, what a disgrace. Like, the first one. The first one was, it was. Oh, you were young. You were young. I mean, the only thing that, yeah, right. And I feel like it doesn't count. That one should have been an old. And if I passed him on the street, I wouldn't even know what he looks like. Oh, shit. Honest to God. I love that. Like, it was just that. And this one, I loved his guts. Yeah. You know, so it was like, my son's father. I mean, he had children with him, so it's like. And I, honest to God, thought we'd be together forever. Yeah. You know, probably doing something in ministry. I don't know, because that's what he did our whole marriage. Did he ever get it together? And was he able to, no, never got it together? I hate to hear that. No. And my mom was right. 20 years. Do you want this? Because nothing's changing. Wow. And I pray, I pray every day, you know, because I know what it's like. Great guy. You know, and I don't even know if, what does even get it together look like? Right. Right. You know, my, my. I get it together, which is take over the world. Right, right. Or I got peace. You know? Yeah. He's if he's living how he wants to live and he's exactly right. Then that's, that's all that matters. So take me to this, you know, God speaking on your life and calling you to become a pastor because you're living at home. You're at rock bottom, you're working at Belk and you get this harebrained idea to become a pastor. Okay. How does this come to you? Girl. I didn't even know how to do makeup because remember I was raised. You can't do makeup, right? So why are they going to put me at Estee Lauder? Like not even Mac Estee Lauder, which is like granny makeup. And so that means I got diamonds and all that stuff. My mom used to do. No, I don't remember that. Them ladies love the YouTube and they would come spray all of this mail straight up. Like, like diapers. Oh, well, And so, and, and you have to wear these polyester, Navy blue suits, you know, uniforms. And so they're like, we have the best job for you. And it's Estee Lauder. And I'm like, listen, lady, I don't know how to put makeup on. You do not want me to make up. I really don't even like people at all. Right. Like I, I, at this point in my life, I'm over it. I don't like people. Yeah, I don't, I'm not going to be good with, with your customers. It'll put me in the well, put me in the well, I'll open the boxes. They were like, Oh no, we think you're going to be great girl. When I tell you, it was like, God punked me because I was still my dad because I was in his house was making me sickly worshiping his church. So I'd be driving to church with my cigarette hanging out my, out of my car and then getting to the church and spraying, spraying love spell all over me. That doesn't even work. Cause I used to smoke Newports. So I know. And the love smells. You just smell like a whole whorehouse. Yeah. Walking up into the church. Every stripper in Vegas wore love. Oh my God. It makes me sick. Now. Amber romance. Amber romance was the other one. And so I would, I started to do his worship, but I was like in the cosmetics. And I remember watching YouTube trying to learn how to, how to like do makeup. And I remember getting so mad at God one night and I was like, you hate me. Like these old ladies, like, I don't even know how to do makeup. Now you're wanting, they're coming in here wanting, I gotta put it in the wrinkles and cover the wrinkles up. And I don't even know how to put makeup on. I'm just having this whole conversation because I truly did start talking to God. Right. Like I was really late in that bed, really seeking because I was sad. I was broken. And I remember laying in that bed and I said, God, I said, I said, I need you to take this pain away from me. And probably for the first time in my life, bunny, I heard, I can't take it away from you. You got to get up and walk away from it. And at that moment I realized that it was like the rejection wasn't people necessarily wanting out of my life. It wasn't just because I was bad. It wasn't just because I was unlovable, but that God did indeed have something for me to do. I never thought it was preaching ever. I never thought it was preaching, but he had something for me to do that those people that I'd opened the door to. couldn't keep up with my purpose. And so for some reason, I wrapped my head around rejections. God's protection. And so I started climbing out of that depression, that, that sadness, that hollowness that sitting in the parking lot with all my girlfriends drinking a bones farm, you know, or the cheapest wine we could find literally getting drunk on the cheapest wine we could find after work while my kids are at home with my parents. And it's, I started longing. It was Like I started giving me a longing because I always knew God from my parents or from Bible school. Their version. Yeah. But this time I hit rock bottom and I needed God. And I remember he started taking me on a journey of forgiveness. And I remember I lay in my bed at night and I would pray, God, kill him, kill him with a train because God didn't tell me how to kill him or how to pray for him. He just said, pray for him. I was praying for him to get killed with the train because I wanted him to hurt as bad as I was hurting. And I remember when he started talking about forgiveness, I was just like, wow, I don't even know how to do that. Raised in the church. Well, because they didn't show you forgiveness. They didn't show you how to forgive. That's been my biggest lesson in life too, is learning how to forgive. And I would lay in my bed every night and be like, God, help. I would pray that every night. God, help me forgive. I want to forgive. I want to forgive, but I don't know how. And it was like over time, in about six months, I was starting to get up, more excited. My kids were starting to see a change. I wasn't just going out and looking for trouble to get into. Right in the beginning of this journey of me finding God and really just hungry, I came home drunk one night I was probably 38 and it was the last time I got drunk I come home drunk we'd had a party and I was the I was the I was the the star you know everywhere I went they'd make sure I got home and everything they would drop I believe that they would drop me home they put me in the van like they they took people took care of me because I was just by this time I was happy I was getting there. And that night I walk in my house and I remember the girl, this lady named Tarvette was the one that drove me home. And that night she had called my son Morgan and said, I need you to open the door because I'm bringing your mama home. And that night when I walked in, I saw that pain in my son's eyes because he just he's seen it two years prior when we had to leave his father and it's that had taken away that whole family you know from him and I saw that and I was so broken I mean because you know when you're when you're drunk some reason you're more spiritual if you got any God you're preaching to everybody well they call alcohol spirits yes they do There you go. So I saw that pain. And I'm walking in, and I just feel grief because he was, you could just see it in his eyes. Just like, because he'd never seen me like that. - Oh, again. - I'd hit it really well, you know? And I was walking up, stairs. And as I was walking upstairs, I hit all of the pictures. I'm 38. And I wasn't as bad as I had been. I was really searching for God, but I was just one foot in one foot out really. And I'm doing so good and already do my videos. Right. Right. Oh, already do my videos already talking about Jesus. So your video started out as like motivational speaking, not being a pastor. Nope. Okay. I never knew that. No, no, no. Just literally like, man, I know you want to give up today. Trying to encourage. I know you're starting over today. I know you're sitting on the side of the road and you're hooptie and you are looking at all these people that look like they're doing so much better than you. Gotcha. Gotcha. So that's what it was totally. It was definitely not because I had it all together. Right. I probably looked like I did, but I knocked all the pictures down going upstairs at my mom's, all my graduation pictures of my brothers. And I the door of my father's room opening and my heart started populating because my son already was disappointed. And now my dad, which I love more than anything was going to catch me. And cause I'd always stay away, you know, if I was going to be partying or anything like that. But this night I got busted. And so I hear my dad walking up the stairs and I run to my room and I lay down like this as still as I can. And I'm like, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do this. I'm thinking that he'd think I was asleep. Like he didn't see all the pictures, but when you're drunk, you just think you're very sober and you're slick. Like it wasn't me. And I could feel his breath looking down at me. And so I just opened my eye like this and he's a baby girl. How do you feel? And I said, heartbroken. And he said, well, you're going to get through this. He said, but I hope you don't have a hangover tomorrow. He said, cause daddy's going to tuck you in. And he said, forgive yourself. But tomorrow you're going to get up and lead praise and worship at our church. And I thought every white person, cause it was all white, all the white people in that building, judgmental, all they were. I said, they're going to die because there's a lightning bolt about to go through the same church because there's no way my dad should let me. Cause most of the time, I'm like, I'm going to get up. If you're a preacher's kid, you got to get up. You got to stand before the church. You got to say, I'm sorry that I've said my dad never let that happen. My dad covered me. He protected me, but he was going to make me get up and lead praise and worship. And I remember that Sunday, it was like, God, I laid in that bed that night and cried my eyes out because I felt like another moment with Pastor Rod where Jesus was holding me and saying, let it go. You're human. Yeah. And after that, I never drank. I never drank again. It was like my father showed me everything I needed him to show me all those years, this soft side where he's saying, baby girl, I'm so proud of you. And you're going to get up there and you're going to sing your butt off and you're going to lead worship and God is there and I trust you. And so I said, I led worship and it was like that, that there was a healing that took place and I never had to go out and get drunk and drive with one eye again. And that's when my whole life really started changing. And I literally fell so in love with Jesus, fell in love with Jesus. And I mean, girl, listen, I was then turning those car videos and preaching and, but it wasn't preaching. It was all, I'm fascinated with the stories in the Bible where God leaves the 99 for the one, where he will turn Apostle Paul, that was Saul, that was a Christian killer. And he'll turn him into one of those people who will turn him into a Christian killer. And he'll turn him into one of the greatest revivalists in the planet. He'll save him. He'll let a snake bite him that was supposed to kill him. And he'll shake that snake off. And that very hand that got bit by the snake is the one that was healing people. Like I'm just fascinated by those stories of the man laid at the pool of Bethesda, 38 years. And all of a sudden I said, get your tail up. What you doing? And he gets up and he says, now take your mat and walk. He knew if he left his mat there, he would come back. And yet that man ended up being a great revivalist. The woman at the well became one of the greatest revivalists. And so I was always fascinated with that. So I was always telling those stories. And if you've been church hurt, it's okay. And then I met a guy named Trent Shelton in that time. And he's over rehab time. He had this big old movement and he would ask me to come on and pray. And it wasn't a Christian movement. But he always wanted someone to pray. And he saw me as a preacher. And so he would ask me to come on rehab time and pray. And I'd be set up in my mama's bedroom, that room that was a 10 by 10 size of my old walk-in closet. And I'd be praying in that room. And I showed up every Thursday. Like there was 20,000 people standing there and I did it faithfully for like two years. It gave you a purpose. Yeah. And I think the obedience to God, like, I mean, I would be out with family and have to go sit in my car so I could do this rehab time. And it stirred something up inside of me. That was calling. Oh yeah. And then when I was at Bloomingdale, I mean, at Bell, when I, when I think about that, I could not stand people and God knew that. And he said, where I'm taking you, you have to like people. So I'm going to put you in front of these sweet little old ladies that don't care if you can't do makeup. They're just coming to feel pampered. And you're going to fall in love with them because you're going to learn to listen to their stories. And girl, when I tell you that five years in cosmetics, I fell so all of this was in the same time. I fell in love with people so much, their stories. I started ministering to them out of a place. I never, I never knew was there. Right. It was, it was like, I remember when I really realized that God had his hand on my life was this lady. And I remember when I was a little girl, I had this lady named Eleanor. Came walking back. Such an old lady name. And I love that. I freaking love that. She looked like an old lady. She go walking in like this with her little handbag, you know? And she comes walking in and by this time, because I was selling the mess out of lip glosses, because that's all I could put on you was lip glosses. And I, everybody was buying lip glosses and I do their makeup and they'd buy lip glosses. And I had one of the top counters in Atlanta for sales because. It was because of you. It was. People were attracted to your charm. It was. And Eleanor came in and she said to me, Kim, I said, Eleanor, you cannot return that. I have all the account execs come into my store and they're going to ask me what I'm doing to get all these sales. And if you return, we have no returns, Eleanor. She said, oh no, I'm not bringing this back. She said, I'm coming back with a proposition to you. She said, for the last 13 years, she said, my husband walked out on me. For my best friend. And she said, I quit living. She said, I lay in my bed and I would just rot and everyone enabled me. My kids would bring me food and groceries and I just wouldn't leave the house. I lost me. And she said, I have to get a job. She's probably 78. She was having to go get a job. And she said, so I have to, I have to figure out how to take care of myself. And she said, I've been going to a therapist. This woman comes to my house and meets with me for the last 10 years. And she said, that therapist hasn't done anything for me, but she became my friend. She said, but when I came and sat in your chair on that Friday, she says, something happened in your chair. And she said, when I left, I went home. I opened all my blinds. She said, I told people, I don't need you to come buy my groceries anymore. She said, life is bad. I don't need you to come buy my groceries anymore. I don't need you back in me. And she said, every Friday, I'm going to come sit back at this chair and I'm going to let you talk to me and I'm going to buy another lip gloss. Let's go. And it was like, that was God, Bonnie. It was like, all of a sudden I was like, it like clicked for you. Everything they said about me is not true. I can preach. I can love people back to life. And if I can't preach in a church, I can preach on the side of the road. I can, I can minister. I can love everybody. I can walk in a grocery store. I can fall in love with little thumbnails that I don't know. I never meet these people, but yet God's given me this ability to love so well that they feel like they're my best friends. And it's because I prayed every day, God, let me be that person that lets people feel seen, that wants to live right. I'm not, I didn't live right because I was scared of hell. I was not scared of hell. I had already been there. Yeah. But what brought me to Jesus was Rod Parsley, and my father wrapping their arms around me and having my back when I didn't have my own back. So it's the love of God. It's loving people where they are and being there for them and letting Jesus clean them up. Amen, sister. So from there, you just start preaching. What was it like when you did your first sermon? Oh, well, I pulled out a tutu. Okay. Where did the style come from? I need to know. You have, you've had like a whole change in style, which I love both versions. Oh, we got to credit. Because that man right there loved me well you know I just never felt sexy I was a preacher you know I was I was and you know I try to preach soft girl people say how many cigarettes have you smoked today I love your voice because I get called trans I get called uh Caitlyn Jenner all the time like is that Caitlyn Jenner listen that's a compliment people ask me if I'm trans too I think that's the new thing that they do whenever women are good looking it's because no it's because trans women are beautiful now it's like they're so beautiful so it's like you know what if you want to call us that I can't believe I had thought of that just because I will say that next time yeah I'm telling you I'm a little sassy on there I think somebody called me Chloe the other day and I was like well praise god I've graduated from Caitlyn you know I'm Chloe today beautiful you are beautiful but I remember I had seen you before when you were the blonde with the tutus and the glasses and stuff like that and then when I saw you again I was like wait wait wait is this the same person I had to go google because I was like this can't be the same person but it was the same voice yeah so I was like this is her and I was like oh my god she's had like a total I don't like using the word glow up because I feel like everybody is where they want to be at that point in their life but I was like she's had a total transformation as far as she looks you know I think this is what healing looks like yeah because I think we do such a bad job in Christianity right because I don't believe that you can be a healed person and be an ugly Christian right you know what I'm saying yes I don't believe that you can be a healed person and be an ugly Christian right you know what I'm saying you can be the waiters having a bad day and you're like sending your food back with one bite left yeah and I just I just feel like this is what healing looks like it made me softer softer I don't feel like I have anything to prove like I can come sit on bunny's podcast and be 100 authentic and not be afraid of nothing because I know for a fact God's got my back absolutely it's healed like I know I'm worth it fighting for I know that if the heavens split open tonight and I get before the Lord I'm gonna hear well done my good and faithful sir yeah because I love his kids well yeah was I perfect no but dad I love his kids and I think that's what matters damn more than anything absolutely leading with love I think I healed yeah and I think this is healing I love it you look good mama I'm so excited for you and it's so funny because I don't look anything like like people will literally because I have such a different following now yeah diverse for sure when I had the tutu yeah you know they don't even remember nobody even knows me in the tutu yeah because my whole following's changed so much yeah it's crazy how it goes in waves so take me on your first sermon and I'm I'm really curious about this because we have so many people that want me to start going and speaking at places and I am knock-kneed like I sit me behind a microphone and one-on-one with you I'm completely fine but getting in front of people and like how do you how do you do it like how how did it feel to you to do that I'm just one of those people that just does stuff yeah I know I miss interior designer you know I'll be I'm nervous all the time yeah because I need Jesus I just I just always like I gotta gotta gotta can't believe you you've allowed me to be here but for me it was I remember I was about to do a conference so so listen let me let me tell you how I got here so I was coming out walking through forgiveness God told me I had to get up and walk through forgiveness and I was walking through forgiveness I was walking in feeling sorry for myself which I think is huge that's a huge point to pick out because a lot of people don't like to to say that they have they were victimizing themselves and I don't think you can truly start growing as a human until you own the fact that you are a perpetual victim because even if you didn't do even if the pain you are feeling isn't your fault the healing still is your responsibility yes and you can't heal I mean we chose these people so what was that you know so we did have a part to play in it we stayed way longer than we should have what was that and so I I had to get there and realize that you know I mean girl I'm the queen of laying hands on myself I'd be like come out I will I feel I will lay hands on my fantasy that I would love to be around for one of my mouth will get sad so I'll be like come out but I remember I was there it was when Facebook had a quiz and it was 25 things um about me and that's when we everybody was going around telling about it and I remember it was right in the beginning of my healing I was probably 38 and I remember that the number one was uh what's your favorite color and I couldn't even tell you what my favorite color was I was so broken I mean at this point I was coming out you know but I was still like man I don't even feel worthy of God's love I don't feel worthy of a man's love I don't feel I've embarrassed my mother my sons and number six was uh number number two was what's your favorite food and I remember laying there that night crying so hard and I was like God I don't even know who I am anymore because you lose yourself trying to get people to love you that were never supposed to love you and you're you're just attracted what you were and not what you wanted and I was laying in that bed and I said God I need to know 25 things about me that's good and seven days later it was Mother's Day and Lincoln Presley my youngest he's third I'm 29 now he walks up and hands me a poem that he's made that looks like a little girl with a dress so feminine and she had like a little tutu looking dress on and she was so girly and I just did not feel I didn't feel soft I didn't feel you know and the poem was 35 things that I love about you mm-hmm and I remember reading those it wasn't even 25 it was 35 things that I love about you mama and number one said I love you because you're the loudest one at my basketball games that boy used to tell me every bunny every time we'd be going to a game he'd tell me mother if you're loud I'm never telling you again because you embarrass me because you're the loudest one here but he secretly loved it then he gonna come tell me all these years later that I love you because you were the loudest one at my basketball games it made me feel so loved oh see mamas don't listen to them and then number six was I love you because you conquered hell in high heels and man girl I cried like a baby and healed so many so many layers came off me so then I got invited to go preach and it was a kojic church and what kind of church is that like like like it's it's it's where they they shout oh yeah everybody get the rattlesnakes out and stuff all you gotta do is just say amen and everybody's like oh no right like you don't gotta have a whole lot of anointing right like you just gotta walk up in there like you feel it right right and and so I was standing in the front of the mirror I'd be like hang on and he said trying to learn how to hoop because I had already seen all the people this weekend they were all go hoop they were all gonna lay hands on everybody in the whole place and they had asked me to come preach off of a video in a car as I remember laying in my bed I was like oh my god I was I didn't practice hooping I didn't practice uh uh dancing that left leg wasn't gonna move so we knew that wasn't gonna work this one would move but that one you know so that shout was discombobulated and so I'm laying in my bed and all of a sudden I remember that poem that Lincoln had made me and how that made me feel and I was like a tutu girl I don't know where that came from because my body was not built for a tutu okay I was probably 78 pounds like 199 pounds at that moment at that time I've ordered me a tutu and go to this conference with a tutu black tutu on because because I was scared of these people and I knew that if I come in as something that they're not gonna judge my preaching because I'm gonna already take them away right they're just gonna be like whoa look what she's walked in so I put me some out of black tutu and it was all because I was scared to death to preach did not even know what I was going to scared couldn't had not heard from God yet like I'd been begging God to tell me what I said he left you hanging and so uh I had a I remember like it was yesterday I had on a black t-shirt with rhinestones and cochran hell and high heels girl when I walked in that place it was like the holy spirit took over like when I tell you it was it I preached a sermon that night called uh from stars to from scars to stars or something like that today's episode is brought to you by vented y'all know how it goes you open your closet and have a million 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well there was a two-two it was the two-two two-two i want them over and that was it when i walked in it just it just won them over and so then i just started wearing two-twos and i became like that little two-two breacher it was like your little uniform yeah it was my uniform but it set you apart from everybody well it set me apart and they didn't have a whole lot of expectations you know like it was like they're she's coming in a two-two but we love who this is right and i was allowed to say things like they were because you know at that point twitter had already given me the name real talk kim and was that how you got your name was from twitter my name was taken and they said real talk kim and i was like yeah i like that i love that and so they tiktok gave me the name and then probably i mean twitter then a year into me preaching um i got contacted to go on oxygen and be preachers of atlanta because of my two-two i love that so i don't i still to this day can't tell you really where that whole look i mean i i shaved my head off i would shave my head with my razor that i was cutting my legs with you know and then i'd take a lipstick and put it in my hair and are you a natural blonde i am white now yeah just because you're not 53 but naturally are you a blonde yeah yeah and so i you know would bleach my own hair then i'd put all that color in it but it was like that that became a huge awakening for me and i was like oh my god i'm so happy i'm so happy i'm so happy i'm so happy i'm so happy for me because i learned how to preach in that season but that two-two took me it sounds so cliche i guess but it was almost like i could i felt like she was worthy right of being there yeah because miracles took place when she walked in yeah that she was she served you for that season yeah your life that's who you were talking about her like she's real i mean she is she's sitting in front of me right now it's just a different version i was that way for 15 years yeah i mean that's a lifetime yeah that was you guys you know she got you started in this and you made a name for yourself while wearing that two-two yeah so take me on you ended up getting married again yeah the the that was your third marriage i did that before all of this all of this so i was still living with my mom and dad we're getting to angelo that's why we're we're getting we're going down the yes we're getting to we save the best for last the best for last so the third one ended up dming you okay so i was living at my mom's you know me i was living at my mom's trying to get out i was still in the parking lot drinking partying and but i'm i'm coming to jesus i'd already had the experience with the the the moment with him where we were like god i need to forgive so i was really starting to preach i hadn't i haven't preached yet in a church but i was singing now and this man slips into my dms and he's 15 years older and all i thought was this man's gonna get me out of belk he's gonna get me out of bloomingdale's he's gonna get me out of my mama's house because you still have that thought of i was never gonna preach like that wasn't even an option and now i'm at you know i didn't even have the confidence to go start an interior design company right so i'm stuck so i gotta marry somebody with money and so i met him through facebook and married him after meeting him twice it wasn't facebook marketplace was it okay good can you believe i did that you probably should have been it could have been actually right but he slipped in my dms and i married him and it was hell and that is when the windows of heaven opened over my life yeah and i would still be married to him you know you try to make things work oh yeah and ministry took off and was he a christian too yeah yeah just didn't walk it he was the devil it was like i married satan and had to pretend i was happy liar the the biggest liar i would look down in church and he'd be sitting there with his hands up in the air with tears rolling down his feet and i was like when you get home you'll be the biggest devil on the planet it was he abusive oh no but he was just mean as a snake i mean that's just as worse verbal abuse i'd rather take a punch to the face than emotional and verbal abuse and and because god started taking me off he would he would literally when i would get done preaching about that was the stupidest sermon you don't know the word um people people they don't know who you are and then he would talk about me behind my back to what i do staff to i mean i like the horns you literally were sleeping with the enemy absolutely that's crazy so god god caught him i mean i'd been married to him for eight years uh we were living completely different lives i was on preachers of atlanta and i think he was on he made everything hell for me um i think that was my last test you know because i kept it together i i i was i was at the feet of jesus a lot and i was not allowing that man to steal what god had given me and so i thought like the last one last elephant on the ark that was the devil trying to take you down it was knock you off track again because he was so horrible how did you guys end up splitting well i was preaching in in biloxi mississippi and so when i met him i wasn't preaching i didn't start preaching for two years after i met him i was working at belk and bloomingdale not in the process of that and those videos started taking off and then i started preaching so when i met him i was not already when i'm married again i wasn't in ministry so i was preaching in biloxi mississippi and uh it sounds like i'm making it okay for a while i got married again i had to give you all the details yeah no no no you're painting a picture so um i'm in biloxi mississippi and some of my pastor friends called and we're like ken we are so sorry and i'm like for what they were like you haven't been on social media i'm like no they said well your husband has been caught and he is a cheater i about fell over this man acted like i mean though we didn't have nothing he still acted like enamored with me you know like right he would never he loved the life i'd given him at that point i was like this old man there's no way i saw a video of him he was bald he was totally what was it old like what i didn't even understand all right you were doing charity work kim oh i almost fell out of my bed last night when i saw a video of him i was like what i don't even tell you nobody can even find him it was a low point in life for you okay just by the man that you had beside you trying to get out of my mom and dad's house yeah every time i even try to talk about angela's exes he's like you can't say nothing to me angelo i have your back on that one because i was like wait what when i saw this guy's shiny bald head sitting next to you i mean grandpa he was horrible i mean he was grandpa like if it's okay if it's okay if it's okay if it's okay if it'd be nice gramps you know if it was take if he was he was great it was a gram and he was not even a good guy i mean and to be mean to you like come on dude like that's just he hated me pick a struggle okay he hated me like i'm like dude you hate me he was jealous oh yeah he was jealous of your light your angels disturbed his demons do you know how people that's exactly right do you know do you know how people bring us gifts because they love us he would come in and throw those gifts they don't know who you are they'd come and take pictures of me out public he'd be like we cannot take pictures out public well this man got busted he was taking my jewelry to these women he was he was god who who is fucking hooking up with that my followers gosh it was my followers it's because it wasn't for him it was for you because some women have a thing where they want to be with the man that the woman that they look up to is with it's really it's a weird sick dynamic that parasocial relationships well her family found out they were like you're doing what with real talk camps because you know i'm kind of i come across like you know back then i was like i've healed from that she's still in there though yeah she's so in there like i fight for people like i did for her yeah but i went online and all these people he was standing there in a picture like this and he had his hands crossed and people were like does anybody know whose husband this is they knew they put him in one of those groups huh yes oh shit he was on we were he was on all the blogs and so they said does anybody know whose husband everybody knew i'm sure they knew it was real talk camps but they were trying to probably protect me too because they were i mean for the most part people were pretty kind to me and that boy had cheated on me and that woman's family found out and come to find out he'd been married more than i knew you you No and all of his exes were reaching out to me he said yes finally real talk kim's gonna take him down you're like why where were you guys at when we were married like why didn't you guys warn me then they did oh okay all right oh girl they they reached out to me on facebook they were like run don't be with this man he is he is a devil and mimi was like well what's gonna happen if he's like that i'm like we'll just get divorced i wasn't in ministry i'm just gonna keep taking my time and i'm like i'm not gonna be with this man i'm not gonna be with this man i'm not gonna be with this man i'm not gonna be with this man i'm not gonna be with this man i'm not gonna be with this man until i find this this healer that's just gonna come in and take care of me and by this time my dad's got dementia you know so it was like i i he was like my savior he got busted and girl i went by that church threw that phone down on that sofa i come back from biloxi went straight to that church and i remember he laid his head down on that desk and said i knew i was gonna get oh oh oh I was like it is over i love that you had enough strength though to walk away and you were just like you know what no you're not gonna do this anymore so take me on that journey after you kick gramps to the curb well i started you know in this process too i wrote books i wrote seven books yeah and so there i wrote one last i wrote uh the the one book was uh shut hell up and that that year i released that and i think that's what gave me the the courage girl was i get sick of it of people staying in these marriages with these people because God hates divorce, but God loves the divorcee. Isn't there a thing in the Bible though, that says that when a man is unfaithful to a woman that he wants you to leave? Yes. Okay. But who cares? Like even if you're in a marriage and I get strong for this, I get dragged. Unhappiness. But God doesn't expect you to stay in a relationship where y'all are killing each other. Right. Exactly. And I think so many of us do that. Why would I stay in a relationship with this man that was not nice to me, you know, pretending that everything was so great and hating my life because I was afraid I was going to lose my ministry if we got divorced because I was going to be third. And how could you preach to your full potential when you're literally being just drug down at home? I did it. Well, I remember during the pandemic, it was right when the pandemic had started and, and I started live at nines and I did live at nines because he had been busted and he wouldn't get out of my house. And he said, I'm not getting out of that house unless you give me X, Y, Z. And I was like, over my dead body. I was like, he sounds like a real peach. This guy, he was filling his truck up when I was traveling. And I mean, it was bad. And it was, the devil was really trying to make me hate, like trying to break it down. Cause you were doing the Lord's work. Yeah. So he was coming out. With daggers from every angle. Yeah. Yeah. And I wrote that book, shut hell up. And, uh, I started doing live at nines and you can hear in the back, him slamming cabinets and stuff and then getting up in church and worshiping and stuff. So you know what that was too? That was a trigger from what I'd been raised in. So it was like right before my major push, God puts another pharisaical fake phony in my house. And it was like, I had a last encounter of Kim, you got to get all that junk off of you. Like you, you, you got to fall head over heels and stop trying to handle things with your mouth. As I remember, I wrote that book, started doing live at nines and, um, and I did a sermon called morning move. And that morning move is what caused me to really find that I can preach. It don't matter what I've walked through. I'm going to, I'm going to walk through this, lost my daddy three months later to dementia. I'd already taken over the church three years before that. So my dad had been, you know, a part of the, like he got to see, he got to see, he was my biggest, my biggest cheerleader. And so I had full redemption on all, all areas. But I, I had written my sixth book, which was so huge for me because I was in special ed my whole life and literally on a short bus. And it was like that six book shut hell up was me. Finally speaking out of my mouth. Never again. Well, we allow those triggers never again. Cause in the book I had to break down what are triggers. Why do we keep falling in love with the same people with different faces? Why do we stay in situations because we're afraid of people in a free app? Why do we, and so I was breaking all this down and I was walking through breaking soul ties, breaking generational curses. So I was walking through it as well. Yes. And In that process, our church just began to explode. I was so fulfilled. My daddy died. I whipped my mama up, my little 72-year-old mama that had never lived. She had literally, for the last five years, taken care of my dad like was a little boy. I mean, he would run away, and we'd have to go find him. That's how bad he was. And I saw my mom go into the grief, and I just whipped her up, took her on the road with me. I watched her evolve. I watched her write a book at 72, sleeping with a stranger. I watched her glow up. Me and her both started glowing up. You're going up with your mama. I sold my house that I was living in in Fayetteville, the first house that I'd ever lived alone. I'd always lived with a man, my husband's. And I lived there for five years with my mom. Look at you. And I just took hold of my life and never looked back. You fell in love with yourself. You fell in love with yourself, and you started a relationship with yourself. And you started discovering who you were so that now that you enter into this relationship, you can be a whole. Yeah. I remember selling my house, and it was such a scary thing for me because I'm doing all these things women couldn't do for Christianity. And I told God, I was like, man, I'll just. I told God, I was like, man, I'll just. I feel like I want to move downtown and live in a high-rise, but why? There's nobody down there. My church is five minutes away. And I said, God, if this is you, because I'm now for Jesus like I was in the world. I was like, we're doing this doggone thing. I ain't scared. I'll start a building tomorrow. I'll start a business. But it's all for good now. And I said, God, if it's your will for me to sell this house, you'll sell it in seven days. And I want to make $250. I want to make $250,000. I want all my money back that man got. Girl, with the first 17 people, that was 17 people, walked in that house, and they all put bids on my house. Wow. And I walked out of there with more than I'd asked for. And then I had to go downtown and find this house. And I told God exactly what I wanted. I found the exact condo. And five minutes down the road is where I met my husband. I would have never made it if I wouldn't have moved down. Can we bring Angelo in? I know you guys don't do a lot. Get over here. We got a microphone for you, too. You have to come over. Hey, y'all hear me. Do y'all hear me talking about him in church house? Y'all get to witness it. That's how my best friend Monica is. She takes forever to get out of the car. I'm like, I start a countdown every time I get out of the car, and I'm already at the door. And I'm like, all right, Mo. You know, like, let's go. I love it. Come sit by me. Yeah, come on down. We got to put a face. Sit as close as you can. Yeah. We got to put a face with a name. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He's over here snoring. Put me to sleep. You know what? I think that what you and I are experiencing with the freedom of just living life and being able to do all these great things, you know, is that y'all minister and don't even know it, but now I know why. Like, it totally makes sense to me. It makes me want to read your book even more. Oh, I appreciate it. I appreciate that. I downloaded your book last night. I haven't, um, um, I forget which one it is. The pink one? No, I got you a whole bag coming. Oh, you do? I got you Bible Betty. Yay! I've got you God's Girl. I'm so excited. I'll read them. Everything from my store is coming. I love it. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. We'll get you some merch, too. We're about to drop merch as soon as I'm done with this podcast. When is your book? My book comes out February 17th now. We pushed it to February 17th, but 2026, and we're doing a whole book tour. Like, it's going to be fun. It's going to be. I love it. Angelo? This is my sweet Angelo. Welcome to the show. I love this man. So, I met him at, right down the street. That's his name. Let's just say I replace all three of them. Oh, listen, when you walked in the room, I felt the alpha male energy. I was like, oh, this is Big Papa. Big Papa just walked in. He's got his Louis Vuitton suit on. You guys are just a stylish little couple. I love this so much. So you guys met. Tell me all about this. So I went out to eat on a Sunday night. I love that he's kind of shy. Well, it's different from being at home on our podcast because I kind of take over, so I don't want to just take over since we're here. Oh, gotcha. I mean, please take over. We want to hear you talk, too. He is shy. I see him rubbing his knee over there. He's a little shy. I'm really proud of him because he's come in my world and he's killing it. I mean, it's kind of like you like this guy and you're a guy that's coming from the neighborhood and we're talking on a podcast. My friends talk on podcasts. They talk in sports. And you've had to learn about Jesus. Where are you from, Angelo? Where are you from? I'm from Jacksonville, Florida. Okay. Yeah. So it kind of was different. And I was just watching her on this podcast. And I was like, and I see them talking, her mom and stuff. And I came out really kind of in a jumpsuit, all white. I said, I'm ready. You guys put me in here. She said, come sit down. I said, are you sure? She said, yeah. I said, well, make sure they don't see my socks. We can't see your socks here either. And that just broke him in. And the first thing I saw when I go and look at the podcast. Was your socks. It's my socks. Oh, no. They didn't zoom in. I can promise you no socks in this podcast. But I'm fresh to death now. You can show me from all the way. I'm fresh to death right now. I mean, it's different. I love it. I love it. I'm just so thankful, man, that I get to get to love like this. So I've gotten to hear. Her how she feels about you. I want to hear what it was like for you when you first met her. When she we met outside of the garden area, the St. Regents. And he was eating with her brother and his wife. I heard the voice all the way over here with some guys. And let me make a detour. The bathroom behind me. I'm gonna go back this way where I can see what she looked like. The voice and. Were you attracted to the voice? Yes, I was. I love that. I was attracted to the voice and stuff. It wasn't like Phyllis Dillis or nothing like this. It wasn't that loud. Right, right, right. He said I was a little crazy. But I heard I heard the voice. I said, let me kind of go over here. OK. And she got this big patch of of Gucci jacket on. I made these, you know, I just. But she had. So I had a Gucci jacket. She had a whole Gucci sweatsuit. Yeah, OK. OK, well, the white girl got a little fresh on. Got a little style. You know, I'm in the ATL. Like, you know, we see we see what swag look like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you guys are swagged out out there. Yeah, we see it. So I'm hearing the voice and I say, well, and I walk past. I'm like, OK. Hey, you know, those wings, you know, those wings taste real good. I guess I was kind of like dropping my little line. It was like it was weak and stuff. It was weak. I love that though. No, I didn't. I didn't think that was weak at all. Like it was weak. No, it worked. But I'm here. It worked. But I'm here. I'm here because her brother, her brother's here. And I just say, OK. And I just went to the bathroom and I came back and, you know, she was like, yeah, they are good. And I'm like, OK. Three months later. Now we back at the same place. A friend of mine asked me, hey, you want to hang out? Like, OK. Well, yeah, I'm thinking about it. And it was about two hours. He's like, man, this guy. Don't stood me up. I'm going on my own now. And I meet him there and I'm looking at the corner of my eyes and I'm sitting there. I'm sitting here by this fireplace and he gets up. Let me go ask him, see if they like fireplace. And I'm like, man, why is he messing with these people? And I looked over the corner of my eyes. I can see her. And she turned around and look and all I see of her face like. Oh, I can read. I was so excited. I can read. Have you thought about him after that first initial meeting? I never dated a black man in my life. Yeah. All of a sudden I see this black man. I'm like, yes, I thought of him. No, answer the question. Yes, I have. He's like, I would like to know. But I was raised. No, I was raised though. No, but you thinking about me. And he made me think about him. But you think about me. Because I only say the wings. I just saw this thing. You guys had after the wings. I just saw the wing comment. You guys had never talked. I never talked. I never gave him a number. You guys went separate ways. And I remember telling my brother, I said, that is a good looking man right there. Look how big he is. And I started working out. I thought, if I'm going to get somebody like him, I got to get myself snatched. But this is a place. This is a place where, you know, it's a Friday night. People out. You see women all the time. You see from Atlanta Housewife, whoever it is. Absolutely. From this people. From this people there. And you get hit on. So I'm used to that type, but I'm used to, I wasn't used to that. It was just kind of like, okay. It was like my little line. And it must be work. So I saw her face and I'm like, okay. And then I scoot over. Wait, were you still in the tutus and the blonde hair? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This was only three years ago. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He said no. So I retired my tutus when I took over our church. Okay, gotcha. And I'm going to be pastor. Six years. Okay. She was kind of like in the Mrs. Brady-like type, though. Not the Florence Henderson. Yeah, Florence, yeah. She had a little bit of that going on. So I said, you know, and we started. And so actually I got up. And my friend, he already done a parlay over here. Yeah. So I got up and I'm like, well, let me come over here and stuff. And she said, you can sit right here. Kim was not shy. I was shy. She was like. But I wasn't here. She's like, oh, she said, you can sit right here. Like I would call Chachi. Yes, Chachi. And I was like, okay. And I was like, girl, you got to learn how to flirt. Like, I ain't never know how to flirt in my life. I was like, we can't let him get away. I said, you must have got. And this ain't church. And I was asking. I said, well, I guess. So you couldn't hide behind the pulpit. I couldn't hide behind the pulpit. And I was like, you seem like you're tall. You got long legs or something. I don't know. I said, yes, I got long legs. I love this. And then we talked, man, for four hours. Aw. And she, we talked. I think we talked. And you gave me your number. She said, put my number in your phone. And then you sent me a video. As real tall Kim. I said, you real proud of yourself, eh? Real tall Kim. But I knew he'd go find me. No, because I didn't worry about social media and stuff. I'm like, I'm the real deal when I go outside of the social media. People that go out, people that's on social media come out. They're not. They're not the real deal. Angela's an OG. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I'm the real deal in life person. No matter if it's, I don't care who's who it is. I'm going to fit in that room. Yeah. And I'm going to be the realest one that's in there. No matter what kind of, no matter what they got going on in their life. Their bank account is gone. They not real. So I knew, so I didn't pay attention to social media. Right. I had a business website that I was only brokering high-end cars. Right. I didn't want to play no games or DM. I didn't know what a DM was. So you didn't give him your number. You only gave him your social. I gave him my phone number too. He sent me Drew Hill Beauty. That night. Before I went to bed. Oh, look at you. And that next morning, he popped on my prayer call and I saw him. I was like, wow. He found me. Real talk. That's why I said real talk, Kim. What did you think of when you went on social media? I was, I got up, I was on her live and I'm like, I'm, I'm hearing people talk. And I'm like, well, it was the, I think I called it next day after that. And I was like, man, this is trashy. People talking back and forth, disrespectful. And I woke up that morning and got on the live. They were saying her nose. I said, man, I told her like that. I love your nose. Your nose is so big. It's in me a nose. I like your nose. I love your nose. And I'm, and I'm giving these. So she's like, thanks for the heart. So I'm thinking like, let me give. And I didn't, I didn't know that was taking my money. I didn't know that was taking money out of my bank account. He's like, give him back. Give me the hearts back. I'm like all the hearts and stuff. I'm like filling all the hearts up and stuff. Like a month later, I'm looking at it. Man, these things. That is so funny. Like social media out of Apple. I'm like, I ain't bought anything. You know what I'm like? I love that. I'm like, man, so I don't know if I want to go to her church because these hearts are already getting expensive. I'm like, man, I don't know if I want to go to her church because these hearts are already getting expensive. I already put an offering. This was my offering. I'm like, now, you know, you belong for me. And then he said he told a friend about a preacher lady he met and this man said, run. Don't you take all your money. To me, it's like me buying her a drink. I don't gave you my heart. She kind of like belong to me now. You buy somebody a drink, you know, she like belong to me. I love that. And so it was after that. He showed up at my church and did not tell me on Sunday. And we were packed. Our church is. God really has blessed us, so you can't find a place to sit. Well, she really didn't tell me she was a preacher. I did. While we were sitting. She said, I did. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. Back up, back up. She didn't tell me she was a preacher. Sort of. Yeah. I wanted to blight you, buddy. I was like, he gonna run if he knows I'm a preacher. She just told me come to her church, you know, her church. She do it. Oh, so you thought you were showing up. She wanted to say, come to my church. So you thought you guys were going to be sitting in the pew together. You didn't know that she was going to be the one preaching. I've been invited to a lot of women say, come to my church. It ain't they church, that's TDJ's church, right? You didn't even say my dad. And someone will tell you, my daddy is the preacher. Right, right, right. So I know I ain't going. Right, right. I ain't dealing with the daddy and the church. And he's a pastor. So there's no way. So I was like, okay, yeah, I'll be there. But he did not tell me. Yeah. So I'm thinking like, she said, well, we got probably two services. I said, no, I ain't going to come to all three of them. Two or three. Three services. Especially after the hearts. Oh, no. You're getting limited time, honey. It was something about, you know. But when you walked in. When you walk in and see her preaching, how does that make you feel? Are you like, oh, my God. The church was packed. Wow. Walked in. They greeted me. And I always tell the staff that now. I walked in. They greeted me. It was like, man, it's like this church. It seemed like everybody had their eyes on me and stuff. And it's kind of like dark in there, too. So you got to think. And these girls was behind me. And they was like, can you sit down here? One of the some seats there. So I followed them. Okay, well, I'm sitting next to them. And he walks up front because we put new seats up here because we're just trying to shove people in. I saw this man walk out, about passed out. They thought they had the best seat. And one of your staff members came. Because I saw you. I was like, oh, no, he got to move. They came and got me. Like, put me over here. Yes, I'll see y'all next week. I'm going to VIP. He said, I'm going to VIP, baby. I'm going over here to the upper room over here. Y'all, my mother reached over to me and she goes, who is that? And I said, I've been talking to him. I met him at a restaurant. And she goes, Kimberly, this is the Super Bowl Sunday of Christianity. Don't let him distract you. I love mom. She was like, don't you let that man distract you. You've got to give him Jesus. And did you give him Jesus? Girl, I gave him Jesus. I probably preached one of my best sermons, don't you think? She hasn't even preached no more since then. Are you kidding me? Don't you dare. When I tell you this, man, we've got to go back dating again. You've got to scare him. He couldn't even tell me what I preached that Sunday. Jesus is in the tomb. Lazarus is coming for us. And I just saw her, and it seemed like the praise team, the drummer just got louder. Boom, boom, boom. And she had these six-inch heels. I was jumping out of the tomb. She had these six-inch heels jumping out of the tomb. You liked it, huh? Yeah. It was so crazy. It was so crazy that me and my sister always go to this restaurant for Easter. I love that he's remembering all these little things. That was really sweet. Because I've heard this. It was so crazy that me and my sister always go for Easter to this dinner. Right. And I canceled at the last minute. She called. She said, we still going to dinner? I said, no, I don't want to go. So I ate dinner with her and her mom on Easter. And my son's. Yeah. Like, was that not crazy? Yeah. Yeah. And you guys have been together ever since? And now my sister, you know, I don't have time for her anymore. You got to just invite sister to the dinners now. So I remember when he started coming and my mother, me and my mom were driving to church about a week after that. And she said, Kim, I want to tell you something. And I said, what? She said, let this man be him. Don't you try to change this man. Mom loved him. Loved him. She said, don't you let nobody try to make him a preacher. Don't you make him come to your church? If he wants to come, he can't. When he wants to, he can't. But he is. You let this man just see where it goes. Yeah. And I did. And now he's running the church three years later. Look at you. I love this. I love love. And I love happy endings. And for you to be her happy ending, you must be something special. I'm just so thankful, Bunny. Yeah. You know, I'm not sure he's thankful for you, too. I think the thing is with any guy, he want to know what it looked like before you get into it. Right. Yes. And any guys that jump into any marriage, then they're going to keep jumping into marriage. And I was thinking when I was watching her preach, I would go watch this pastor that I always used to watch. Because this was almost like a year after COVID. And people took a while for them to start getting back. Going into churches. So I would watch her. Then I would close out, watch her for a minute. And I always was watching how things was looking. Right. And now, you know, you're looking on the outside. Now you're in the inside. So how do you. So he's fixed it all. Everything he thought needed to be fixed, he's come in and helped fix it. How do you want to better your church and better your community? That's a teammate, though. That's two people that can come together. And you can always tell when a couple is. It's good for each other because they evolve and they level up after you have to. That is so important in a relationship. You stay the same. That's when. And I feel like it's rare. Yes. I feel like people don't just let their spouses be there. It's like you try to change them. No, you can't. You can't do that. You got to grow together. And the only way they're going to grow is that they feel freedom to do that. Absolutely. And you want to be a safe space. And if you're nagging at a man constantly or if a man is nagging you, nobody wants to be told. No. That they're doing wrong all the time or that they need to be somebody that they're genuinely not. But when you pour love into that relationship, it just blossoms. Yeah. I'm excited for you guys. And look at us. Look at you guys now. I remember he told me, hey, he told me whenever we were dating, it was probably, what, six, seven months? He said, you need to do something to your hair. And I was like, what do you mean? He was like, you need to get a style. And I'm like, I'm white. White people don't get styles. He says, yes, they do. And I remember one day on my prayer call. I said, y'all, wigs, what do I do? You know, because I'm in this in-between stage. I found out women are the ones that started wigs. White women are the ones that started wigs and extensions. Really? I had no idea about that. Before anybody. Wow. And so I went and got me extensions. I've never seen them. And glowed up for him. And now I love it. We work out together. I didn't go to a gym until I was 50. These are best friends. Yes. You guys are best friends. And that's a huge, huge testament to you guys. This relationship. Well, I figure we will change for each other. Yes. It's certain clothes that I probably never. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love this. I thought when he walked in, I was like, this is something I would wear with heels. Like, I think it's so cute. Yeah. I will be. I'll send you one of those. I love it. I'll pay for it. I was like, no, I'm not going to put this on. Because I was still just old school with it. Yeah. I was kind of like, man, now when you start feeling it. Yeah. Then, you know, I kind of just, she'll drip some of it. Now I can drip myself. I love it. She could drip a little, then I'd drip with her. And then I just kind of, he was working out. So now I introduce her. Dwight. Went to the gym and she's kind of working out a little bit too. Girl, I had bat wings. I was like fat, just saggy. Did you do it all natural or did you use GLP-1? Oh, all natural. Yeah. Good for you. But it's been 72 pounds over four years. Oh, yeah. No. It's a, let me tell you something about fat loss. It is a slow process. And nobody tells you about that. And I would do GLP. Look, don't get me wrong. I'm not scared of it. I'm about to get fat. I'm about to get on it. I don't even care. I ain't scared of it. I would do it in a heartbeat. Me too. If I was having trouble, I would do it. So anybody out there struggling, do what you need to do. Yeah, do what you need to do. Don't let nobody tell you nothing else. Angela, I'm so happy you came and sat down with us. You are so sweet. Kim. Thank you. I have held you for, what, almost three hours? No. Has it been? Two hours? Almost two and a half hours that we have been talking. So y'all cut a bunch of that out. I could sit here and talk to you forever. Really? Yeah. I talked about stuff I ain't talked about. I want you to come back, though, because I didn't get to talk to you about everything. I want to sit down with you and kind of really pick your brain and get questions from people. Because there's so many people. I feel like God is making a movement on the world right now. Big time. And I feel like there's so many people out there that want to change and don't know how. And I think maybe we'll come to Atlanta, and I'll rent a studio, and we'll sit down, and I'll just pick your brain, and we'll just talk. We could do it in my penthouse. OK. I would love to. We could do elementary stuff, because you don't know about half of the stuff that happened with you. But you know. She was shying away from this. I kind of wanted to hear it, too. Yeah. Like, you know, your childhood. I know. I don't talk about it. Yeah. Because I kept trying to fool her. You made her feel disrespectful. No, no, no, no. I'm not disrespectful. It doesn't. You're doing a good job. But maybe there's something there. No, you're doing some. When you're throwing those daggers like that, and so that's what you want. And it ain't really about who you was married to, because they don't define you. Not at all. Not at all. We, when you pull in, when you pull in say hey what happened at 10th grade what happened in the sixth grade yeah what happened yeah and i remember it's a lot of women that's fighting that's hiding it yeah absolutely there was something there well we definitely need a part two yeah so i'm gonna come out and visit you yeah we'll come to you guys i would love that yeah and then we can even because there's so many people looking for god and i think it was important for us to tell this part because you can look at my life and see my fruit yeah outlives every lie ever absolutely yeah and that god doesn't write you off he's waiting for you with arms wide open he's not a mean god you and i are proving that to these people yes and so what six feet or ten feet for what bicycle that you had when you was a kid oh now you're gonna try to be a therapist angela that's for part two we're gonna sit down with you for part two and i will get all in it because i do skip over it i'm gonna be i'm gonna be praying about it yeah no pray about it and when you're ready let's talk about it because it's my job to talk to try to pull it out of you but it's also your job to talk about it when you're ready and nobody can force you to talk about stuff you don't really really oh i'm not i'm definitely not afraid to talk about i think i just you're right i think there was just so much that i so i would definitely talk about it yeah it could have been it could even have been when we came out of united pentecost and it was a trigger because all of a sudden we could do everything that we were told we couldn't do yeah and then that probably was where i just well i don't over it i feel like when you're under a thumb and under a microscope at such a young age also you get to a point where you just don't it's degas you do not give a and you're just like let's fucking let's roll i'm ready to do whatever i wasn't allowed to do and what i was told not to do so i think you did what every child who has ever had religious trauma yeah did but the cool thing about it is you were able to pull yourself out of it and look at you now you've written so many books and you've written so many books and you've written so many seven and my babies work for i've got two sons they work in church with me i mean that's amazing like everything that should have been horrible god turned it around and he'll do it for everybody tell everybody where they can find you if they want to go to your church uh if you have any online stuff that people can watch every sunday stuff like that just shout it all out y'all listen come to if you live in atlanta georgia limitless church 1653 highway 85 south fayetteville georgia every sunday 10 and 11 30 and you are y'all everybody come you are welcome you're gonna feel so loved and if you can't make it to atlanta into our physical building it's across from whitewater high school in fayetteville so that's your mile marker but if you can't make it in the building we have live streaming on my real talk kim youtube channel every sunday 10 and 11 30 yay and so you can watch it and then you can find me on realtalkkim.com which is my website i have a store i have great books i got seven great books seven books that will help you i wrote one i can't even imagine writing seven all my books too are about getting unstuck every single book has given you you're a savage listen get unstuck because of what i just talked about yeah i've walked through all of that and every book is about different seasons in there i love that angela what about you do you have social media well real talk i love it her biggest supporter he said he don't want people fine he's out with your crazy friends fine no you do not you don't want the interwebs on there thank you guys so much for coming today i appreciate you so much i love you back and i hope we have a podcast oh we're on the podcast we have a podcast it's on all over all social medias uh real talk kim as well and he's on there with me that's when they were fine yeah he's on all my podcasts i love it thank you guys so much for coming i love you too and this is the beginning of a friendship and i'm just so excited to see where it goes i'm so and i love this your little bible baddie with me now yeah i love the bible baddie i love that we actually we want one of my books to be called the bunny bible so i love it i love that bunny bible no thank you guys for coming and thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of dumb blonde i'll see you guys next week bye we use shopify for our storefront at bunnyxo.com one thing i've learned from running an online store is that you definitely don't have to be an e-commerce expert to get started i think a lot of people get intimidated by the website side of starting a business but shopify makes that part so much easier one of my favorite things is having everything in one place when you're running a business you already have a million things going on so the last thing you want 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