„Regretting Motherhood“

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hi, I'm Iris Palmer, host of the Against All Odds Podcast. Every week, I'm sitting down with exceptional people who have broken barriers, even when the odds were stacked against them. Like Chef Victor Villas of Villas Tacos. You know that the ghetto from the Bad Bunny halftime show? It was great. It was a big moment. It was special. And I felt like I was really representing my family, you know, my brand, my city. I was representing all the taqueros. Not only of like, you know, the US, but of Mexico and beyond all the taqueros of the world. Listen to Against All Odds on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello, gorgeous. It's Lala Kent, host of "Untraditionally Lala." My days of filling up cups at Sir, may be over, but I'm still loving life in the valley. Life on the other side of the hill is giving grown-up vibes, but over here on my podcast "Untraditionally Lala," I'm still that Lala. You either love or love to hate. It's unruly, it's unafraid. It's "Untraditionally Lala." Listen to "Untraditionally Lala" on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Kristen Davis. Host of "The Podcast" are you a Charlotte? In 1998, my life was forever changed when I took on the role of Charlotte York on a new show called "Sex in the City." Now I get to sit down with some of my favorite people and relive all of the incredible moments this show brought us on and off the screen. Listen to "Are You a Charlotte on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast?" On the "Sceno Show" podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances, the entire season two is now available to bench, featuring powerful conversations with the guest like Tiffany Attish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcohol, and without this drug, I'm a die. Listen to "The Sceno Show" on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Morning everybody, it's DJ NV Jess Hilarious, Charlotte Main de Gaat. We are the Breakfast Club, Laura Rosens here with us. Today we got a special guest in the building. Yes indeed. She has a new book, "Start with It Yourself," and "Megreed" ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. Thank you, thank you for having me back. How you feeling? I'm feeling great actually, great. The book comes out, and I'm just like dying right now. Bigger to Raj, 50 people at least. At least 51. I love from the best. 51. And when do you have time between running businesses? When do you have time to write this book? You know, I think it's like for me, it was super important to do it. And I've been thinking about it for the longest time because I've learned so much over the years. And it was important to me to answer the questions that I get asked over and over again. And there's no way that I can answer every DM. I can speak to every woman at the end of a conference. So this for me was actually something that was really important to get out there because I think the idea of what it means to build a business has been really warped by social media. And so then when I say things that upset people, and they're like, oh really? I need to go to work. I'm like, yes, that needs a work. You're going to have to work. So I thought it was important to put down everything because you only see the glory side. And I've had a lot of things happen in my career, a lot of mistakes that I've made. And I thought that was equally important to share. Now I know you're very intentional about design and things like that. What made you come up with this cover? Because it's fly, but it's simplistic, right? It's very simplistic. It's beautiful, yeah. The material of the book is different. The fabric is different. Well, I'm an aesthetic person. I wanted something that looked beautiful. But also I went with the publisher who would allow me to not put my face on the book because I don't want to read a book with the face on the book. But your face sells. I know. It's face in the package. It's a nice face. No one's saying it's not. But to me it was important because listen, I created a book that is here to use, not just to read. So I wanted it to feel like a workbook. It's yours. It's not mine. It's not about me. It's about you, about the reader. Don't. Now, what's all with yourself? Is that starting with yourself professionally or personally when you say start with you? You know, I don't think that you can separate the two things because at the end of the day we come to work in into our work lives and our careers as people. And I've never been able to separate those two things myself. I come into my work as a mother of four, as a wife, as a woman that's been through a lot of things. And so I really try not to have that separation. It's like where you can figure your stuff out. And I talk so much in this book about having a vision for yourself and managing your emotions because when you're coming at life from an emotional place you will never make good decisions. That means you won't make good decisions in your life or in your career in your work. So I look at the two things as one of the same. What's a hard truth about yourself that you had the confront that changed the trajectory of your success? Well, you know, when I was a kid I was a very angry kid. When you're raised in the hood and when you're raised, you know, around a lot that's kind of going on around you and that's not something that you have a choice in, you get angry. And I really realized, I think in my late teens that that wasn't going to serve me, the type of life that I dreamed of and all the things I wanted were not going to calm if I kept kind of walking around blaming everybody else. So that was a real pivot all the time for me to kind of get a hold. And again, it's about not allowing your emotions to do your decision making for you. And I think about that even in the sense for most women now, a lot of us come from a place of fear. We're fearful about what's next or we're carrying guilt for our kids and for our family. And so I think managing your emotions more broadly is something that all of us, man or woman really have to work on in order to get ahead. What made you, I'm sorry, dad. I saw you say you're a max three hour mom. Oh, and that sparked a conversation. Did it in its spark of its effect? I mean, listen, I want to be really honest about this. I spend all my time working and I'm a mum before. I think that I am a core memory mum. I'm not going to walk it back. Like I'm somebody that really, really cares about the big things, the big moments, Christmas, Thanksgiving. But let's be honest. I've been at work all week Monday through Friday. And I'm with my kids all morning on a Saturday. There's time that I need for me and I say things that a lot of people think. I think that most moms after playing with their kids and taking their kids to the birthday parties and getting up on a Saturday and going through their house and running the errands are exhausted. So I'm just being honest. Any husband who's married, like I am, like NBS, we have four daughters. We understand exactly what you mean. We know exactly what our wives need breaks. Yes, they do. All women need breaks. So what I want to do is de-stigmatise the idea of what it means to be a mother who works. And at the end of the day, it's like, if I'm good, the whole family is good. But that, it takes a village. And I think this idea that we're all doing everything ourselves that you have to constantly be in service as a woman to your family, to everyone around you, is unrealistic if you're going to be successful. So let's just call it what it is. It's like, I am a really great hands-on mom, but I also need to look after myself. And I prioritise myself often. And I don't want to have to walk around feeling ashamed doing that. Do you think that women ever really get to a point where they don't feel ashamed, though, like fully, like you have no mom guilt ever? No, that's the truth is no, I don't. But it's my guilt. So I think what's really important, and when I talk about holding a vision for yourself, you have to hold a vision for yourself for the type of woman you want to be, the type of mother you want to be, the type of friend you want to be. And once that vision is aligned with what you're doing, you're fine. And what I mean by that is, I know what type of parent I want to be. I'm at the dorm most mornings because I have to leave to go to the office. But I am always at my house at 5.30, because I like to do bedtime and story time, put my kids to bed. That's my choice. That's what I like to do. So I measure myself by my own set of standards, by my principles, by the way, I want a parent, not by what I see on Instagram or what I see other moms at the school do. That's what makes you miserable. That's what gives you this heavy sense that I'm, you know, I'm in some sense of guilt. So I think hold a vision for yourself and work towards your own vision and version of your life, and don't be held to anyone else's standards. Now, break down what the three hour max mom is. So for people I don't know, that's listening. I mean, you could clarify, but the comment that I read, Wall Street Journal, it was a Wall Street Journal. Good old Wall Street Journal. Thank you. So she was basically seeing. The first point of she's sitting right here, looking at me. So what I actually said just to make it very, very clear is that on a Saturday after five days at work, I go in the office every single day, I come home every single day, by the time it gets to mid day on a weekend. I'm pretty done. I'm ready to go and do something for myself. Yeah. That doesn't mean I'm sitting out by the pool lounging around anyone who's a mum of four knows that that's not the case. But it's like, do I want to be down on the floor like driving cars with my four-year-olds all day? And I'm just like, no, that's the honest truth. And so what I try to do is think about, what do my kids really need for me? Right? They need someone that they can rely on. They need a mum that loves them. They need somebody who creates the best, you know, life for them. That doesn't mean that I need to spend every single waking hour orientating myself around their needs. Because my job and my life is bigger than that. Just because you're a mum of four, I don't think we all need to sit here going. That's the only thing that I do. It isn't. Can you tell that to my four-year-old? Can you please, because I'm trying to play in Barbies on a weekend. Listen, I love playing Barbies for an hour. It's facts. Any parent who says any different is probably lying to them. But what is it's not like the father is doing stuff with them? The father is doing stuff for them. We have a big extended family. They're not sitting there languishing. But also, let's just get. But let's get really straight about this, right? Parenting hasn't gotten more difficult. The expectations around parenting has got really difficult. And I think that we are all kidding ourselves when we think it's our full-time job to manage. Every single playday, every activity your kid does, every day. everything that they interest, everything that they do. Are you crazy when I was a kid? If there was an apple and a packet of chips in the house, my mom was like, "Job done." It is not our jobs to usher our kids through every single moment of the day. They will figure it out. It's fine for them to get bored and put on the TV. - Oh my goodness. - You don't think we should micromanage? - No, I don't think we could micromanage anything. And again, I think that my job as a mom is to really make sure that my kids are safe and well and fed and looked after and loved. But I don't think that every waking moment of their 24 hours is my responsibility to manage. No. And would I be this successful if I did? No. - When did that mindset switch though? Because I'm not a parent yet, but I always hear them talk about the anxiety of like, you're sending your kids out and you're not micromanaging. So when does that switch for you? - I don't think it was ever part of how I was raised. I was raised by a single mom on one of four. So by the time I was 12, I could make dinner for the whole family. I was raised in such a way where I was very much left to my own devices. Do I think there's a happy medium? Absolutely. But I definitely don't. I never thought that when I had kids, I would suddenly drop all of my ambition and become a different woman. I've always been somebody that was in creation mode for herself. And actually when I had my first kid, that was the moment my ambition really made sense. Because all of a sudden I was like, wow, now I understand what all of this is for. I have these beautiful four children who are relying on me for their lives. And I think the best thing that they see is that I go out every single day and I'm creating a life for all of us. I think that's an amazing role model. - You said something that's interesting. You said you don't believe in micro-managing anything? - No, I'm not a micromanager. I wouldn't get things down. You know, I have extremely high standards, but I hire the best people and I know what my strengths are. And then I hire everyone else for everything else. I don't think that I do everything the best. And actually you can't build a big company if that's the way you're coming into things. You need to know where your strengths are and then just get the best possible people. - But you always like that? Or did you go through issues with like hire and firing, trying to do everything? - You know, you always imagine, or I always imagined back in the day that there was somebody better than me. I remember in my first company actually hiring a guy that came in as the managing director. And while I was paying myself one salary, I paid him maybe double, maybe even treble. And that was because my idea of what somebody at that age and that experience could come in and do was kind of actually so far from the truth. But I'd kind of got it in my head that, you know, he was more experienced that he would have a better ability to bring in business and of course none is that, I'm sure. But that was about my own self-doubt. That was about my own fear of like, whether or not I'm born to be a leader. And I think what I've learned over the years and once as I've got kind of older and more comfortable with myself is that you just need to have faith in your own abilities. And if you are scared of something and don't get me wrong, like I still have a lot of fear. But to me I use it as a signal. Fear to me signals that something incredible is on the other side and that I need to go through it, not shy away from it. So now every time I get that feeling, I know and I use it in a way to kind of like pull me closer to whatever it is that I want to do. - You know in a lot of conversations, especially up here, when is the right time to have a family? Because you talk about that. Break that down a little bit. - Well, you know, I think that was happened in the culture very largely is that, you know, we really have started to tell people that you have to wait. You have to wait. And I think what are you waiting for? Like you have to wait for Prince Charming, you have to wait for the ideal time. And the reality is that there is no such thing as a perfect time, you know? And fertility is a really, really tricky thing. And so what we're seeing are so many people that wait and wait and wait and this happened to me. And then it was no longer your choice. I had two children completely buying and naturally. And then really, really struggled to get pregnant again in my kind of late 30s. And so I think what we've got to do is be honest about when the right time is from a fertility perspective. Because if we all wait until we're 38, 39 years old, the chance is dwindle. And we again, we've kind of set ourselves up in corporate America to say, "Free your eggs. Don't worry, there are options down the line." When in fact, those options aren't really options for women. They are just hopes and promises that maybe something will happen in the future. And so I really think that you should do, you know, have your 20s as the years that you put the pedal to the metal that you absolutely like do everything that you can in your career. And you have to think about kids in your early 30s. That's just the reality of it. And every time you lean on to have sex, you know, let's pretend you're that you know, you could get pregnant. There is that, Charlemagne. That happens. So it's just a little. I'm just saying, so when you say it, wait. And they're like, "People don't happen, Charlemagne." They're like, "He'll stay in it for sex." No, people don't have to stay in it for sex. But we have to just like put this as what it is, right? We are seeing marriage rates decline, birth rates decline. A lot of women are making decisions not to have children or to wait until they're much, much la la. Because again, we've built it up that you have to wait until you're successful in your career before you even think about having a baby. The reality is it's not either or it's both and. Like, you have to just decide that, you know, for a moment your career might have to take a little back seat. But if you wait and wait, listen, I'm not sitting here advocating for teenage pregnancy. What I'm saying is wait until you're 38 years old is probably not a good idea. Hey! I'm 34. I was just looking at this thing on New York Times. Me and Mimi Brown, who does our shopping. I'm 34, right? So, me and. How many times should you go outside of the country with a man after the age of 30, something? Damn. I just came back from Italy. I think I should have come back with a ring in a baby. Oh, well, no. This is second and third time she's been out the country with this guy. With the guy? I mean, I'm sure it is. I'm not worried for you. So, here's the thing though. About the first time he went out the time. Be quiet. He asked you just to be his girlfriend. Oh, but that's romantic. What's wrong with you, Shalima? He made a big production of it though. He put the roles in the way you can. I like it because when it's a baby. When the proposal comes, when the proposal comes, that's going to be a nice big production too. He listens to what I like. But anyway, so me and Mimi Brown, right? We were talking about the New York Times just did this study, the fertility last year, was at like a record low. And one of the reasons people are like, you know, women are thinking about career more, but also being able to afford things has like really scared people into like waiting and they're trying to save money and do all these things. And that's something that I go through in my head all the time. Like, when do you know that you have enough even like money to be like, all right, I can afford a kid? But that's when I'm talking about the expectations around parenting. Because if you think that you need to change your life, change your apartment, buy all of this equipment, you know, like it's crazy. Like you don't need all of that. Kids don't require all of that. We've built ourselves up in society to somehow imagine that if you don't have like X, then you can't have a baby. Like just, we have to check that. Like our parents never had all of that stuff. Why would we think that we do? This is just a construct of like modern society. You don't need all of that stuff. It's just the fact. When you talk about all thoughts are still thinking, right? And then you talk about the constructs that we have today. Where do you fall in the middle of like, all right, I'm a let go of like what my parents did, bringing what I need to do for now, but like not push myself into fear because I'm leaning too much into what society says I need to do to do that. You got to be somewhat secure to me. Yeah, like what's the middle key? You can't be sitting there like YOLO when I have enough to cover your whole community. Of course, but you need that for yourself. But people only hear certain things. No, but you need that for yourself. I can have a baby right now. No, no, no, no, no. The people are not that stupid. Here's the thing. Yes, they do. Don't give people some credit. I think this, I think at the end of the day, nobody is sitting here saying that you should go out if you have nothing. All I'm saying is just waiting at women, we have, there's a reality around your fertility window. And if you work in corporate America right now and you have the benefit of freezing your eggs, like you might hold onto that as like, okay, that means I can wait and wait and wait when the reality is how many women do you know that have had pregnancies from frozen embryos or from, wait a minute, frozen eggs that they need to turn into frozen embryos that they need to turn into babies. It's actually really, it's actually really, really difficult. And so when we talk about these things, it's just a lot of nuance to them. We can't just think about, you know, wanting to be a parent and say, I'll just kick that down. It's all I'm saying in my book is that it's something for consideration, but thought. And again, we don't talk about these things enough because the common wisdom is, I will just wait until I'm ready. I'll just wait until I've got enough money. I'll just wait until, you know, I mean, a better job. I'll just wait until this and then the choices no longer yours. It's just the way it's not your choice. But we would never have kids if that was the case. Because I mean, even now in America, I think 60% of all people live paycheck to paycheck. When it was there ever been a time in America with majority of people can afford to have a baby. I think one of the constructs of today that you, I know you talk about like, isn't really possible is work-life balance, right? And like people, for me, one of the things I always think about is like, all right, I don't know what a pregnancy is going to be. Like if I'm physically going to be capable of getting up and appearing somewhere every single day. So then what happens and I can't predict that. And for a lot of people, that part of it, but also when you have the kids, how your schedule changes and everything you have to adjust to, what do you lose, what do you gain? Like, it's like fear of the unknown. It's called a trade-off. It's called life. Like seriously, women have been having babies for century. Like you think they can make them way into the radio and sit down to like, have a shitty chat? I'm deadly serious about this. Because that is how people think. But what if I have to sacrifice, but what if I can't do something? Yeah, and yeah, and yeah, that you have to sacrifice. There has to be a trade-off. Everything you get in life comes with something else you have to give. I just think that we're in a generation where we're all sitting here going, oh my god, something has to change. Yeah, it has to change. You have to. You have to say I'm going to sacrifice something because there's this other thing on the other side, but that's no difference than when we're in business. Everything that you want is on the other side of fear. Every good thing that's going to come to you requires a bit of a trade-off. Why do we think that we're going to get everything that we want and give nothing is just setting people up to fail? When is the win? When is the win? I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor IV. You might have seen the skits, the reactions. My journey from basketball to college football or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Cliford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Cliford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Cliford Show on the iHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more behind the scenes, follow @cliford and a TikTok podcast network on TikTok. I'm John Green. You may know me as the author of the Faulkner Stars. And now I guess also is the co-host of the Away End, a brand new world soccer podcast. I'm Daniel Alagón, a writer and journalist, and John and I have known each other since we were kids. My first World Cup was Mexico '86. I was 9 years old. I watched every game and I fell in love. On our new podcast The Away End, we'll share with you the magic of international football, all leading up to the 2026 World Cup. For us, soccer, football is a story we've shared for over 30 years since Daniel was the star player on our high school soccer team, very debatable. And I was their most loyal and sometimes only fan. I love this game. I love its history, its hope, its heartbreak, and above all its beauty. Together we'll find out why of all the unimportant things football, soccer, is the most important. Listen to The Away End with Daniel Alagón and John Green on the iHeard Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast Money in Wealth with John Hill Bryant, I sit down with Tiffany the Budgeonista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth starting with the mindset shifts too many of us were never ever taught. Financial education is not always about like I'm going to get ripped, that's great. It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong financial legacy for your family. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money in Wealth with John Hill Bryant from the Black Effect Network on the iHeard Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. American Soccer is about to explode. The World Cup is coming. We're almost sending on the Army's story to ship. SCAR! You're a son! I'm Tad Brahmos. I'm Tom Bo. On our podcast Inside American Soccer, you'll get the real storylines. I'm not worried about policy, I'm not worried about Baligan, I'm not worried about McKinney, my only concern is what happens in the back. The biggest decisions. You're going to look at stats and numbers. He has no shot at making this World Cup team. And the truth about the U.S. national team. It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarter finals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. The World Cup is almost here. Experience it all with us. You can't say you can't. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Boehrn and Tad Brahmos and the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. How do you check your ego when the world is constantly rewarding you? Because success can reinforce bad habits just as much as you can. I think that that comes from my upbringing. I was raised in East London and so there is a basic, there's a moral compass and a sort of operating manual of how you should behave. I was raised to tell the truth. I was raised to very much come true on my word, to not talk and not mean things. And so I think the way that I operate every day, what I come back to and the way that I behave in business is very much about the foundation of where I come from. And so I just think that that's who I am. I also think what you realise is that life is very long. Even on this press tour, you know, I was laughing this morning with my team saying, I've met three journalists that used to work for me. You know, if you are not a good person and if you've treated people bad, like it will come and it will kill you. And so I am able to keep those things in check just because that's who I am. And I also know that like, you know, things change, like really, really quickly. One minute you're on the up and the other minute you're not. You know, and I've seen those cycles. I've had that in my life. And I've tried it in this book to talk a lot about all of the failures that I've had. Because what you see on Instagram, what you see in the press is almost like the real of greatness, right? All this amazing stuff and all these lovely outfits and all these good glam dates. When the reality is that I've had a lot of failures, I had a lot of things in my life that didn't work out. I had a bunch of businesses that I had to have really like steep learnings from. And so what I did in this book was try to be really honest about that. So that other people can learn from it and can see that it's just and you don't always have this linear path of up and up and up. It's like, you do something great. And then it kind of stagnates a little bit and then it goes down a bit and then something else amazing happens. But our life happens in seasons. I think the more that we can be really honest about that, the easier it is for people to see and track their own journeys because we have like unrealistic expectations on our self, which also I think really stifles women. This idea that everything should be perfection. And the reality is that in my own life, it has never been that. And how do you handle the failures? You talk about the failures. How do you re-approach whether it's personally all business to make sure that it doesn't happen again? Fire in people, is it hiring to write people? Is it not listening to your gut and listening to the finances? So how does that work? There's two pieces of it. The first one is that I'm always in learning mode. Every day I'm trying to learn. And so whenever there's a failure, I look not on the outside, but I go inside. I'm like, what part did I have to play in that failure? What did I do? What was uniquely my fault? And so I kind of absorb that. I take that in and I go, OK, like, what could I have done differently? Who am I? So I really think about that. The other part is that I don't attach it to myself because men will fail. They'll lose money. They'll close a business and they're like, boom, onto the next one. Whereas a woman will go, oh, that was me. I messed my one chance. I know you don't have one chance. You have many, many, many chances. So I try to separate what is me from what actually happened. And when you're able to do that, it's a really amazing tool because you start not to look at these things as verdicts on yourself, but rather like a set of circumstances. You take the learnings, you move on, you go again. That's just the fact. That's what you have to do. It's called resilience. And it's like a muscle. It builds the more stuff you do. What I won't ever let it do is stop me from doing something. And that's a really important message for women because you can fail and fail and fail and fail and fail. All you need is that one win. You just need that one thing to work out. And that's what we have to train ourselves for to know that there's a lot of chances in life and that you don't have to get everything right. And you shouldn't wait for this perfect moment and this perfect set of circumstances. These might experience tells me that never come. That's what I love about you and I love about the book. I feel like you teach strategy. And I think that sometimes the self-help industry sometimes sells hope without teaching strategy. Yeah, that's what you know for me was really easy. I wrote the book almost back to front in typical dyslexic fashion because it was so easy to write about building a brand and a business and career. You know, I spent 15 years working in corporate leadership, all of that money, trade-offs, easy for me to write. But the reason I've been able to do that is because I've managed my emotions. And this part about holding a vision for yourself is very important because it isn't about manifestation. It's not about vision boards. When you have a clear vision for yourself, meaning who you are and what is important to you and what do you want in your life, it really crystallizes how you should spend your time. And it's really important to have that vision for yourself and to hold it in high regard. And so the book really starts in that place of figuring out not like my vision is I want to be rich. No, it's like how do you want to live? How do you want to spend your time? What type of person do you want to be? And then you make your decisions and you create your goals coming out of that. Do you talk a bit about, well, as money interviews, I saw you talked about how women don't want to talk about money. Yeah. And you talk about just now right being rich. So Forbes named you one of America's richest self-made women in 25. She getting to it. Right. So they did. She getting to it. Okay. Clock it. But the conversation you were having is about how women, in a lot of times black women, don't you want to have a conversation when they deserve raises or to be paid for something? At what point in your life were you ever not asking for what you deserved? Never. And I tell you where that comes from. That's an East London thing. Like when you don't have much, like I was raised with audacity, meaning you know, it's like when I did my first paper round, they were like, we want to pay you £10. a week. I was like, "That is crazy." And I worked out how much it would cost for me to like visit every single house. And I went back and I was like, "That's wrong. You guys should pay me 15 pounds, 50 or whatever it was." Like something crazy. Because I value myself so highly. And if you don't, it's very hard for other people to value. So the first thing is, do the work and understand your value. When we talk about, for example, we all know that women get less than 3% of venture capital funding. What I'm interested in is not the what's happening in culture and society. That stuff we know about. We know about systemic barriers. We understand that there are systems that keep us out of those conversations. I'm talking about what can we do? Where can we start with ourselves and use what we have to get what we need? And if you hide behind soft ambition, performative purpose, meaning if you have an idea for a business and you give me a proposal and it takes you six pages before you've even spoken about profit because you're too busy giving the money away and supporting your community and all of this stuff because you've dressed the idea up in performative purpose. That isn't getting to the point. That's not getting to the point of business. So what I'm saying is we have to put money in the center of our plans. We have to make sure that what we need we are asking for and we're being very, very clear about where we're making money. I mean, I talk about this all the time on my podcast. As Pai with Emma Greed is full of lessons I bring in money experts, I bring in investment experts, I ask every single founder that's ever been on that show, how? How did you raise the money? How did you make the money? How does the company work? How profitable is it? What are you doing with the money? It's very important because we are not taught this. And so what I want to do is make sure and part of my mission is to teach women that. Teach us how to speak about it, teach us how to ask for it and get us like really used to the language because the language is something that you know, I listen to my husband on the phone every day and he's having conversations about where do invest and how much you're putting in like this crypto or you know, this kind of financial construct conversation. I never have conversations like that with my girlfriends. And so I want us as women to start having those conversations because once you understand it and you learn it, it's just it's like exposure therapy. It means that you are then able to ask for what you need. Can we talk about how important relationships are? Because you know when I look at-- Which ones? All of them know of your business. Because I look at scams, I look at good American, I look at safely, they've all been successful. All with folks from the same family, the Kardashian and Jenner's. What is it about your connection with them that makes what y'all do so successful? Well you know, I think that relationships are really important and it doesn't matter if they are your business relationships. You know, I'm also in a relationship with my husband who I'm also in business with. I mentioned to you earlier, like meeting three journalists on this you know, press tour that have worked for me in one way or another. I think that who you are and how you keep your relationships is a business imperative. Right? How you treat people, how you're seen, how you speak to people, what you put out. And I've been very, very careful about all of my partnerships throughout my whole life. I think what people don't understand and they look at me and I'm very aware of the privilege of my partnerships. The most important partners that I have are the banks, the lawyers, my vendors, the people that you would never think about. Because when I need to get something done, I'm not calling like my investment partners. I'm calling the guy at the pocketline in factory because I'm like, that's the guy that I need to hustle with, right? That's why I get it over another person getting it. So when you think about the strength of, and I hear this all the time, like I need a mentor, I need a partner. Don't overlook the things that actually are going to allow you to be flexible and good and move forward in business because partnerships happen in the most unlikely places. They don't need to be glossy. In fact, very rarely do they need to look good. Building a network is very, very different from networking. And when you build a network, you are building the people that allow you to get stuff done, that allow you to interact, to do business. It's very rarely about sitting at a dinner, going to a conference. If you've got a pass around your neck, that's not it. If you've got a name tag on, that's not what you need to be doing. It's like building your network is going to see your bank manager and knowing him by name so that when you need something, you can call them and you can speak to them. Like I just think people are overlooking the partnership piece and overlooking the network piece and misunderstanding how you actually use it to become successful. That's fantastic advice. Do you talk to the people who make the draws? Make the one. Underwear. All the time. Because I don't know what it is about y'all draws. Y'all draw the different level. Okay, different level of comfortable on. You don't realize the difference in draws till you get old. No, no, then you know. Yes, then you know. Every country say draws. Every country. In England we say nickers. Like so I have to. No, no, no, no, I know. So I have trained myself. I have trained myself. But I've always got nickers on. I've always got nickers on. I'm not talking. We have to be real. It's with a K. I just want to say that. It's one of those things. Listen, I am a product obsessive. What I believe in is excellence. And so when you say that, there's nothing in this conversation that makes me happier. Because when you have, like when you do one thing really, really well, that's when you have an incredible business. So you saying that to me is like the single best thing. Like and I think that the reason I'm good is because I have a connection to the customer. I know that if you spend 30 bucks on a pair of draws, they need to be good. They need to be your favorite ones. If they're your favorite ones, you're going to come back again. And so again, I think in business we've kind of, we say to ourselves right now, when you look out, you know, people are obsessed with marketing, they're obsessed with social, they're obsessed with influencer. That's not what business is about. Business is about creating something that people are going to love so much, a product that they love so much, that they'll come back to you time and time again. So when you shift that energy from the marketing, the flash stuff into how can I make something excellent? How can I just be so good at something that people love it and they're obsessed and they come back time and time again, that's the business. The other stuff is just a distraction. When you focus on distribution and finances and logistics, not sexy, but that's the stuff. Excellent. Right. Don't get distracted by all that other stuff. It is just not the right way to think about coming. My wife told me to throw out every single other pair of underwear out on because she likes how I look in skims. And they wash well too. I'm telling you. And it just gives you a confidence. You look in the mirror. You're like, "Damn, where I get all that from?" That's the way it's structured. That's the same. That's the same. That's the same. Yeah, I know what they mean. I mean, you know what they mean. I mean, you know what I mean. That's the same. I'm sorry, you got a shit. That's the whole guy. It's all you. I have just one, I want to ask a business question. I watched your interview with a, with Cardi and then I watched your interview with Camarly Simmons. And the biggest thing that I took away from both of those is like learning from the mistakes. Right. But with Camaro, she talks about she made $20 million. The brand was like valued. Like a billion dollars. Right. No, it wasn't. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, it was, it was, it was valued at a billion dollars. So she had a billion dollars in sales, right? Let's get this right. She had a billion dollars of sales. She had a hundred and forty million dollar valuation. And she ended up with 20. And this is where people get it twisted. A billion dollars of sales is not always created equal because what people do is they look at retail sales, they look at everything that's coming through in licensing where you're getting what between three and eight percent. Right. And then they look at what the market value is. Now the market only valued it at a hundred and forty million because they had lots of subsidiaries. They weren't really in charge of their business. They had dying parts of it. So a hundred and forty million. But my gosh, she'd got more of that because it was all baby fat. Yes. And just hearing all of that, though, was like at the, at the end of it, once you realize all of that. And I guess you're learning from it a real time. But like, that has to hurt, like making those decisions and looking back at those decisions from a rear view like damn, all that money. I mean, she was really honest about it. And you got to love Camara because she came on and she was so open. Like, where did it go? She didn't make all that money. Her husband made that money. And so when you're in a partnership, as I am, and you're in a business partnership, alongside it, what are you doing? Are you outsourcing your decision making? Because you shouldn't be. You have to trust one person. That is yourself. And when I talk about this idea of starting with yourself, we all know intrinsically inside, like, you know, what we're good at. She at that time wasn't somebody that was checking the contract. She wasn't in charge of the money. But you have to make sure when you are the person that is front and center, when it's your face, when it's your worker, thick, when it's your name, you've got to be having 50% of that. Russell said, she came in and she blast them. But initially, she wasn't doing a lot of it. Russell said he also said he gave her the brand, which already existed. So he said, I made her famous and marketed the brand with her face. Now they're the same with what you know. But he said that I compared it to me. I would never I would never come on that. No, no, no, no, but what if that's the only entry point for some? Well, he's the thing that an often it is, right? And so I think that what she was actually saying there, like very, very clearly was she had to take the seat that was given to her. And the seat that was given to her was the back seat. So my thing is that you have to again look at what she's done now. She's been able to invest in Celsius. She's been able to ride back the brand. So she'll do it all differently. So she has learned from those mistakes. Everyone has to get their foot in the dorm in whichever way. And it was imperfect for her. But she took it anyway. She learned, listen, she didn't walk out with nothing. She walked out with 20 million dollars. It's not nothing. Should she have got more in my view? Absolutely. She should have got more. But she was not in the place to be able to advocate for herself. And again, it's about knowing your value. So when you come into something initially, you might be worth one thing. But don't think you can't go back in and negotiate, because pre-sale, I would have been there. Hello, you want me involved in this transaction, because in order to sell it to a buyer, I'm sure they wanted some kind of lock in, you have to do a separate deal there. And again, this is like what you have to learn about negotiation. What you have at one spot is not necessarily what you need to leave with. What you can negotiate with in the beginning can change year two, year three, year four. You're just going to know your point of leverage. So I hit it that sell, I would have said to them, "Hi, you want me to stay here? You want to keep using Kamora? You need this name, image and likeness?" Here's what I need. Right. But that's, again, that stuff is not taught to us. That's why you have to listen to the podcast, because I am talking about negotiating on your own behalf. I'm talking about how to interview. I'm talking about contracts. You know, buddy teaches this to us. And we need this information. I've written a whole book about it, and it's really important to me that regardless of where you come from, regardless of whether you went to school, we all come into life and to business in different ways. But we all deserve the information, every single one of us. So what's yourself is out right now. Go pick it up. Thank you so much. You've been a new vision for work in life. Emma, I love you. I really do appreciate you and the information you put out there. I appreciate you so much, and I have to say, I am so happy that you're doing my show in New York. You work literally. I wanted to make sure that a man was going to be in and the idea that you're there with Martha Stewart tomorrow. Oh, he's like, "Litur, he's the man." He's the man. (LAUGHS) Shut up. She's the man. She's the man. The murder story, Charlotte, I'm waiting for it. I'm just like, I'm loving it. But it's important, listen. We're not going to be in there. I'm hoping your people have told you, Charlotte, don't worry, you'll be there. No, I'm not. No, can you give us everything? I want to come. Oh, yes, you should come. It's sold out. But we'll make-- it's an Adela Hall, and it's tomorrow-- 7 p.m., right? 7 p.m., thank you very much. Adela Hall, 7 p.m. tomorrow. We're having a conversation myself and Emma about her books. I want you to do a new vision for work in life. No, I knew about that. Hey, yeah, well, he's a maximum two hour know what he's supposed to do personally. I really relate to that on the side. That's why I'm talking about him. I'm going-- I know what's happening next. Sure, though, he's going to show up. He read the book. Listen, he's great, and we're going to have a great conversation. And I think it's very, very important because we also-- I'm all about women supporting women, but we will need men to-- Yeah, I'm a greedy-- I need to get somebody in there, too. That's so funny. Somebody-- I promise you, somebody asked me to-- I love that. Yes, you can. All right. Well, is the Breakfast Club as Emma greedy, ladies and gentlemen? Thank you, darling. [MUSIC PLAYING] You're a finisher, y'all, dumb. Hello, gorgeous. It's Lala Kent, host of "Untraditionally Lala." My days of filling up cups at Sir may be over, but I'm still loving life in the valley. Life on the other side of the hill is giving grown-up vibes, but over here on my podcast, "Untraditionally Lala." I'm still that Lala. It's unruly. It's unafraid. It's "Untraditionally Lala." Listen to "Untraditionally Lala" on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. [MUSIC PLAYING] Hi, I'm Iris Palmer, host of the Against All Odds podcast. Every week, I'm sitting down with exceptional people who have broken barriers even when the odds were stacked against them, like Chef Victor Villia of VS Tacos. You know that "Takero" from the "Bad Bunny" half-time show? It was great. It was a big moment. It was special. And I felt like I was really representing my family, my brand, my city. I was representing "Altakero." Not only of the US, but of Mexico and beyond all the "Takero"s of the world. Listen to "A Against All Odds" on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, "Are You a Charlotte?" In 1998, my life was forever changed when I took on the role of Charlotte York on a new show called "Sex in the City." Now I get to sit down with some of my favorite people and relive all of the incredible moments this show brought us on and off the screen. Listen to "Are You a Charlotte?" on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. On the "Sceno Show" podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trail talk about addiction, transformation in the power of second chances, the entire season two is now available to bench, featuring powerful conversations with the guest like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholist, and without this group, I'm a die. Listen to "Sceno Show" on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.