Regenerative Interior Design

Welcome to Deep Green, a bi-weekly show about how the built environment impacts climate change and equity. Deep Green is brought to you by Metropolis. I am your host, Avi Rajagopal. The buildings are some of the biggest things we make as human beings, so if you want to know how we can do better for the environment and all life on this planet, you have to understand buildings and cities and all the things that go into them. And that's what we want to help you with here at Deep Green. Interior designers work with stuff day in and day out, chairs, tables, lights, countertops, tiles, wallpaper. The research company ThinkLab estimates that the average interior designer has about 26 times the buying power of the average consumer. Of course, most interior designers are buying that stuff on behalf of their clients. But the key thing here is that designers have influence. How can they use that influence to do better by people and the planet? Interior designer Lawrence Carr is a trailblazer and an advocate in this area. Carr believes in design that is restorative and regenerative, which means she doesn't want us to just stop at doing less harm to the environment. She believes that design can actually help restore balance between humans and their ecology, and design can allow natural systems to regenerate. Metropolis's senior editor Kelly Beeman sat down with Carr recently to discuss the many alternatives available to interior designers today. What challenges persist with sustainable design and how we can all be a bit more responsible with the stuff in our homes, offices, hotels, and other spaces. Here are Kelly Beeman and Lawrence Carr. I am privileged to have a conversation today with Lawrence Carr, an expert in regenerative design, an ardent champion of circular economies executive producer and host of her Earth X TV original series Shea Lawrence and CEO and creative director of her namesake New York based design studio. Well, I'll just jump right in give me your definition of regenerative design, please. The regenerative design is part of what I call circular design. It means that the way we're going to design it will allow us to avoid waste and use resources materials and products that contributing to the continuous loop of the Earth. As an interior designer, your aesthetic, it seems is very natural. I would love to hear your views on the advancements that we've seen taking place in replacement of plastics recycling of plastics and hopefully the successful diversion of plastics from landfills can this be part of the wellness narrative, these types of products. That's a great question, Kelly, on curaging and loadable to see these efforts in recycling plastic. However, having said that, I do understand being a little bit skeptical about plastic, we talk so much about plastic. But the fact is that on this planet, we have an overload of plastic. We've found it in our oceans, we've found it everywhere in landfills. Even us, it's demonstrated that we humans, our 21st century, we have plastic in our body, unfortunately. So I think it's just important to try to recycle plastic as much as possible. I'm thinking of one company called UniFi, who really makes sure that they have a whole series of products made of recycled plastic from the ocean. Other companies were doing that as well. So your question, I think, you know, it's important to integrate that so it doesn't end up in the landfill. If I can myself personally avoid designing with plastic, even recycled plastic, I do everything for that. Actually, I try to go more through fibers, natural fiber, you know, natural materials called the normal because they've been around for centuries. And also the new biofabricated and ex-generation healthy materials that are coming up in the market, you know, as people are really looking into finding closed loop and regenerative materials. Manufacturers are really actually in Europe, some of them that I know well in Europe are really working on those. So that would be, you know, the way I would go. That's preferable, yeah. And in general, I mean, it's not just plastics, of course, recycling lots of different content would paper lead points are tied to the amount of recycled content in many of these materials. You mentioned if you can for health and wellness, you would avoid plastics. Is there another way or path to distancing ourselves or maybe separating the streams that you see that designers can choose or in terms of their material choices. So you mean like, ever ways than using plastic or using recycled plastic? Yes. Or even, I mean, their experiments happening with bio-based plastics. I'm not sure about all of the details of that. Yes. I think the healthy material lab, you know, which I'm a real advocate, I'm a, you know, persons in my mind matter, I graduated there and I just hold that wonderful certificate that John Sarah roof and Alison meals have co-founded. Healthy material labs at persons, the new school of design, I do think they just recently had a presentation about bioplastic and I think that's just important to definitely use, you know, some of those, if I'm correct, I think they had the had a presentation about that. And we're talking about, you know, luxury vinyl tiles, I think is a great option compared to what's in the market and what's been around, you know, we've huge amount of chemicals. In terms of designers having other options, there are a lot of options, you know, using stone, using wood for a certified by forest to achieve council and or green guard, depending on the European certifications. There's a lot of of wood that can be used, reclaimed as well. And then, you know, fibers, natural fibers, I mean, they are like linen, you know, we have a wool, we have to know where to source wool, you know, I mean, does it come from Australia and New Zealand, Mary no wool. How naturally made is it, you know, from there, I think there's some investigation that's worth doing because Mary no is one of the largest wool market in the world, but, you know, maybe also incredible, but Irish wool, there is Irish wool, you know, with local sheep that are really well made, you know, with local farmers. Yeah, there's plenty of other ways, I guess, and none of this is new, you know, silk has been around forever, I mean, cotton as well, I think we have to really investigate word sourced and how is it made? We want to just make sure that it's, you know, made fairly as well, you know, with local communities, but also that it's made, you know, without pollutant, the best way we can, you know, and sometimes we found that traditional ways are some of the best, you know, using natural dines. We go back to traditional practices that have been around for centuries and, and exploring those are really worth it. So, talking about the U.S. and when the U.S. we also have, you know, local craftsmanship and the way they are doing, whether it's wood and, you know, dyeing some of the materials, looking for finishes that are made of wood. Deep grain will be back after a short commercial break. Deep green is brought to you by Mohawk Group, a metropolis sustainability next partner. Mohawk Group's Waterways project is a mobile showcase coming soon to a city near you. It features new product innovations and demonstrates Mohawk Group's commitment to leaving a positive handprint on local waterways. Learn more about the roadshow and register today to be a part of the journey at MohawkWaterways.com. Welcome back to Deep Green and here's metropolis editor Kelly Beaman and interior designer Laurence Carr. I think that definitely the companies that have been in the business of using plastics, either as a component or as their main ingredient for many years are starting to realize that. But those that have been in the industry or been doing this have this manufacturing system set up for long or it seems that at the best that they could do is recycle the waste, right? Yes, so it sounds like if that's the best that they could do at this point in terms of affordability interior designers who may be specifying perhaps it's a big commercial job with the tight budget and not necessarily a high end residential job. sometimes it's even harder. harder, isn't it, for them to avoid some degree of plastic? So if we are to speak to those designers, it helps to know that companies like three form, for instance, they've gone to great lengths to develop special manufacturing methods to recycle the waste that comes from manufacturing their own products. And looking, you know, to use that as a source of the material, but now they've said that they need a new source of recyclable PET. Right? I mean, I'm thinking, wow, I didn't anticipate that as a problem, although it makes logical sense. So now there's this middleman industry that we see, and I, for like a better word, selling, you know, found or captured waste, back to the manufacturers. What are your thoughts on this? Well, I think it's just to waste to see it, you know, that it's a positive. We really have to look into the life cycle assessment of a product, as you mentioned, Kelly. And by that I mean, you know, where was it sourced? How is it made? All the different parts of a supply chain, who participated in making it, and then how was it transported? How did it end up in a showroom retail or, you know, at the end user place? And then what's the longevity of a product? And where is it going to end up? Again, you know, we want to strive to avoid it for it to end up in the landfill. I think that's an important point to really understand that and also strive to make sure that we've been this supply chain via solutions. And it seems that this middleman, you know, description that you gave our part of a solution. If we are positive about that aspect, and we want to make sure that we have people who take care of that part of the supply chain and try to find ways to use waste and, you know, transform it, which is really the word I use, upcycling it to make a product. Because that's what we want to do is that to make it kind of a new product by transforming it. So I see it as a positive, but now it depends on what you add to it. We have to be really sure that, you know, whatever is made of, it doesn't contribute with more pollutant or any other chemicals that would be not beneficial for the end users. So that's where I would say, you know, just always, always make sure that there is not just a recreative goal on it, but really a real positive way to actually upcycled this product and upcycled waste. Describe for me your own specified process if you don't mind and how you identify ecologically responsible materials. Yes, of course, you know, to me, I really address it from the life cycle assessment process. When I go to manufacturers, I really, really explore where and how the product was sold. I want to understand the raw material that was used at the very, very beginning. And that to me is very important. So we would already define, you know, what is made of to start with. And then I will really strive to understand from the manufacturer before asking for standard certification, because I guess that's also part of a very important process for me to identify the credibility of the products. But I will ask, you know, how they made, you know, and to me, it's important to understand the respect of local communities, whether in the US overseas. I have nothing against things being done overseas. I think it's part of a global world and it's very important to embrace and support global communities. Once I understand how it's made and if it's fairly made, I'm a big supporter of fair trade and being made socially just, you know, as well. But really in terms of healthy materials, and they contribute to wellness to me, it's important to understand, you know, how it was cut, how it was assembled, whatever the genre, how were they made, you know, these are products like wood, stone and other, you know, hard materials. If there are textiles, I even want to understand more of the technology that is used. I love lensing group. It's one of my favorite, you know, that tensile fibers, how they, you know, reduce water, but save energy and use, you know, tree pulp to make fibers. But they definitely have to do some smart tech there. And I'm all for it, you know, but that's really a part of how I decide. And then, of course, I will definitely look at, you know, which international organizations that belong to environmental organization and what stand out certification they have. I mean, it definitely requires, requires a designer to architect architects to, from very beginning, you know, having our own least identifying, doing our due diligence. But I think it's part of our power decision to really, really understand, make a point of doing our due diligence and then select and highlight. I think that that's what everyone strives for, right? They would love to have that kind of information. I wonder how successful, maybe medium sized firms or smaller firms are when they ask that information, you know, what, it's difficult, it had been in the past difficult to get that level of transparency. And people have been relying very heavily on certifications. As you know, do you feel like it's worked out? Yes, I do think, I think it's, it's, it's, even when we do it, I think it's easier. You fund your language, you expand your knowledge, you educate yourself. I mean, I'm an eternal student, I'm a voracious reader. I think it's super important to always keep up to date, you know, with what happens. I mean, especially now, you know, since the pandemic, we move like at light speed in technology, but that's what is knowledge. Now that the world is getting smaller, because it's at our fingertips, we also have to move faster and learn and not faster. Online, online certificate courses, it's our duty to continue to do that, to follow this knowledge and really understand. So I love the healthy material, where we're with reason, I love the International Living Future Institute for that reason as well. You can get LFA certified, you know, living future accredited certified. I love, because you really can expand your knowledge with biophilic design, healthy design, material, understanding, healthy materials that are there available. You know, I haven't mentioned, you know, the Declaration Act for manufacturers to actually really relate to that. And I understand what it means for transparency. Understanding the red list, the red list, that organization that really highlights the level of chemicals that are in every product, you know, material products. And that's how we raise awareness. We only are able to identify a few, you know, I mean, a dozen, you know, right now, I mean, what does it mean for all the other ones that we are not identifying yet, when it will grow as the demand will grow. I mean, I'm a ambassador of a sustainable furnishing council. And I think that's a fantastic coalition of manufacturer, designer, architect, and other trade who are part of it. Actually, large companies, you know, we have William Sonoma, Women Ball. For companies like this, retail companies that have a huge impact on consumers. We can all, you know, use our wallet power to actually ask more and more to large companies, large retail companies, such as smaller, mid-sized, you know, businesses, what the product are made of. Where do they come from? These questions should just be on the website, part, very transparent as a report, you know, or kind of a pledge. So accessible. And as you know, you know, the younger generation, I mean, well, younger than me, Gen Z, you know, really work with their wallet and for them, but this is no doubt that ESG, you know, which is really environmental, you know, goals are completely linked with how they're going to use their wallet. And then look at these brands, only the ones who care for the planet, looking for one who care for the future. And these are the ones that go for interior fashion, you know, food. I mean, they are extremely knowledgeable for that. And that has an influence also with a million years. A question, am I also very long, but because I'm trying to say that it's a realistic way, the same way to shop to a supermarket, you know, to shop for food for our product care. And the interior, how we wash and clean our bodies as well as our interiors, we are doing to shop the same way for manufacturing and furnishings. It is all the same, realistic approach. Yes. It's raised a lot of sense. Well, I've said that designers need to adopt a more of a culture of care, like you're saying, if you care, then those things would naturally follow. I think that makes, that's beautiful, you said, about using your buying power, you know, to push, keep the pressure on, right? So we have that power and we have to push for it. And as consumers, we all are consumers, you and I as experts, should have a topic, I mean, you know, being exposed more and more to it, we become more and more experts or the consumer who just wants to decorate their interior even, you know, or just buy anything. But I will say to what you just said, to contribute to what you just mentioned, that planetary health, planetary health is inextricably linked to even health. We have to understand that. So healthy materials is linked to wellness, you know, where both go and they're intertwined. And the more we understand that, the more we'll go that direction. One last question, it's a two-part question. Maybe it's sort of two and at that I'm sneaking into one. How much stock should we put or place in offsets, which are basically credits that carbon credits the companies, some manufacturers are purchasing, right? Through programs elsewhere that they claim offset the carbon that really their process continues to emit. And it may be a small amount, but these are certainly held up as some of the ways they say that they're reaching a carbon neutral or low carbon production. That's one part. The other part is, is it in any way arrogant? to believe that we as humans can actually, we have that we have the power to regenerate and restore the systems, the natural systems we've already interrupted. I think, you know, to answer the second question, we can try. I think, great about Thunberg, we can have these United Nations conference and talk about the future of the planet as much as we can and make it beautiful events and have all these gathering for multiple countries, you know, as as a human, what can we do physically every day to contribute to it? So I don't think it's, you know, necessarily arrogant. It's a very humble way. What can we each do? How can we do each our own part every day on a daily basis? That's our approach. You know, humbly, what can we do? And I believe if we all have this mindset, then, you know, we can help. We are where we are and we can't change the way the planet is and how things are. And by the way, I just want to say that we have to really understand that the planet will survive, you know, no matter what, it's done it, you know, in the ice age and before every year or not, but we are not, we may not. So it's not so much about, oh, worrying about the planets, it's more about really focusing on what can we do ourselves to maybe have a chance at, you know, staying longer on this planet. And then to also about the carbon emission, I think it's important to purchase these offsets. There are business models globally in the world who cannot stop sourcing overseas. They have to and they have to continue to have packaging. Packaging is a big part of the circular economy and how can we find ways, you know, with packaging. So we consume a now who are shopping more and ever with a click of a button, we can just care about this. But then we're back to global businesses. They need to transport their merchandise from one place to another and some do it, you know, on the boat and we understand and we understand, you know, the global supply chain, you know, crisis issues, you know, but also some do it, you know, like, yeah, I think one of the best ways to for them to contribute and they do it. They really purchase offset programs. I think it's better than doing nothing. You can't change a business model like this, you know, and especially if you are a company like Libiko Bergen-Linen who, you know, and use linen all over the world, but it's a natural, regenerative fiber, one of the best in the world, you know, linen, we use it and they have to continue to distribute, but they are one of the most circular model of, you know, one of the fibers on planet Earth. And so he's lensing group, you know, who's based in Australia, but he's doing globally in Asia and so, yes, I think, you know, there's, there's some good aspects in participating in these programs. Thank you so much. Thank you for your input today and very eye opening. Thank you so much, Kelly. Thank you for having me. Deep Green is produced by Metropolis. I'm your host, Avi Rajgopal, and this episode was reported by Kelly Beeman. The podcast is edited by Hannah Vidi with support from Lauren Volcker. You can find out more about Lauren's car on her website, LaurenScar.com. That's L-A-U-R-E-N-C-E-C-A-R-R.com. A big thanks to her and to all the folks at Sandau Design Group who support Deep Green. We'll be back again in two weeks with another episode of Deep Green available wherever you get your podcasts. [Music]