Red Walters, working towards greatness.

[MUSIC] All right folks, thank you again for joining me for the Tour de Tots icon podcast. I have someone that I've had an interest with for quite a while. I followed him and he has an interest store that is Red Walters. He is a young man that is racing out of the UK. Let me tell you something man. To see this man just continue to move up in rank. It's impressive and it also says a lot about his dedication. So Red, thank you for joining me today, man. >> Hey, no, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. >> No, not bad. Tell me this, I like to start at the beginning. You started riding when you were 17 years old. >> Yes, yes, a little bit before I was 18, yeah. Talk to me about that. How did you get involved in riding and then racing? >> Yes, so I always, my whole childhood, I've always been cycling. Just to find going to the woods of my mates or just going around getting places, riding to school. And then it got to, so in the UK we have what's GCSEs, which I think is high school. And maybe end of middle school for you guys, something like that, so 17. And I wanted to start a hobby. I've been, I did sailing when I was younger as a sport, but it's not really physical. And I'd kind of, I wanted a sport where, I feel like I wanted to be part of something. I wanted to apply myself to something. I somehow knew that at the age of 17 without really having any reason why. But I wanted that, so I made a deal with my dad. If I got, I think it was half-aise in the exam results, then he'd get me a bike. And I initially got the exact number of aise that I needed. So then a couple of weeks later, I find the one I went on, like eBay or something on Facebook. And on the way home from work he goes and takes it up. And it was like, down, this is, yeah, getting into cycling. Ironically, the first thing I thought when I rode it was like, I don't know, this feels really weird. This bike is really small. Baring in mind, that was an extra large. And at the moment, I now ride a medium. So it was too big, but it felt like so cramped up. That I was like, I don't know if cycling is for me. Oh man, that's too funny. Yeah. But then, so then from there, like I was, I've always been super, super competitive. That's always been my main motivator in general. So I literally did a race like two weeks after that, which I don't really, when people ask me, what was my first race? I don't really talk about this one because it was, it was under 16 race technically. Was it, or maybe it was a dream? It was, anyway, there was gear restrictions. But I didn't have the right cogs. So they had to limit me to the little ring. Long story short, I got drops on like the third lap. And I got a lap twice and I was second last. But I was like, that was like the start of the motivation. Like, right, next year I'm going to actually be good at racing and start slowly, slowly progressing through the ranks. Wow. God, I know the feeling of starting racing and getting dropped and getting lapsed many, many times as a junior. I that happened to me. So don't feel, yeah, it was a disaster at first, man. Okay. So when did you get your first real race bike? And when did you start going on the training rise, the group rides and stuff like that and really getting that feel with the group? How was that? Yeah. So well, what's what it started with was the group ride. So it would be, there was a club run, the local club. So when I started cycling, I joined the local club and they were super, you know, like nice and inviting and helpful. So it started with just, you know, I'd go on the club ride on the Sunday. And then I might do like, I remember I'd say to my friends, I'm going to go for a training ride today and it would literally be like 20 minutes around the block a few times. And that was like the training ride. But then Sunday would be the, the car bride. So I did that for a while, probably for a good, well, it was over that winter because like the first race was in the August. So then over the wind, I was like, you know, doing a few club rides here and there. Not, not, I saw when consider it training. Um, and then it got to 2016. Uh, and then I started doing a few more races. So I still at school as well. So, um, I think that was, that wasn't the major exam. You know, 2017 was the major exam. But there was, so there was exams and summer. So I wasn't really training all through summer. I'd like to take a break to do exams and things like that. Um, but I was still like serious and competitive. I think I got, um, like some race wheels that year. Uh, and then it was just, I feel like the best I describe it is it just was such a gradual progression of things. Yeah. So they started the bike and it wasn't a bad bike, but it was still, you know, it wasn't a proper race bike really. And then, you know, I got race wheels and then maybe the next year I got a new frame. Um, and it was just like really gradual. Not bad. Let me ask you this. Was the club that you joined? So Tonya, cycling club in Southampton? Yeah. Yeah. I saw one. How long did you ride for that club? Yeah. So I rode for them for three, three and a bit years in the end. And that was that that took me all the way up until I got my first UCI team, which is quite cool. Um, so I'm proud to be able to say, you know, I was like, you know, with the club racing. And it is just like that whole team atmosphere, you know, you go into the race of the local guys, you train of them on the weekend. And it is just, it's really fun. And, you know, you get, get really good makes out of it. Not bad. Was there anybody that that took you under their wing to teach you the etiquette of riding the bike in the group? Anybody teach you about tactics or anything? Or was it really you just had to learn on the fly? I think there was a few tips here and there, but I think I would say I'm most of it. I'm the kind of person who when I, when I'm into something I research the hair like the heck out of it. You know, I, I, so before I even got my bike, I was on the YouTube watching nation's on one beast. I was watching cycling, Maven and I was watching the vegan cyclist. I was like, who ring up as much. I would watch the whole video. I remember before my very first race, I must have watched a cycling Maven video, one particular video, three or four times to try and pick up what tips where he was moving. Um, and yeah, it's, it's funny looking back. And I sometimes forget I was, I was so savvy about just as much information as possible looking up like GCN, all of it. So you're very, what would, would, would it be okay if I said you're very analytical? Yes. Yes, definitely. Wow. Okay. When, okay, in your junior time, did you ever get a look at by the governing body by UK cycling? I mean, did they ever talk to you, you know, hey, maybe you want to get into a pro, we can get you into a program because they're always searching for, for young people. Did you ever get that look? So first of all, I should say, well, I was junior. I feel like not a lot of people know this, but when I was junior, I wasn't good. I was average for a junior at best. I did first year junior. I didn't do, I literally just did only local stuff. So I was doing, you know, the local little creates in here. It's fine. And that was still, I think, cat two at that point. I just got up to cat two by the end of my first year junior. And then second year junior, I did a couple of the national series rounds and I got dropped like early doors from both of them. And it's just the level I was, I just wasn't there compared to the guys who've been doing it since, you know, they were 12 or that kind of thing. It just, I wasn't there. Um, I did funny enough that you mentioned that reminds me. I did. So they had an Olympic talent identification program. Yep. And they had like up and down the country and there was like one location for it. There was fairly near me. So my dad drove me up and you enter this place. Um, and you know, they do like weirdly, it wasn't a lot of cycling tests. There was like a jump test. There was a sprint test, um, like a grip strength test. And then there was like a couple of cycling ones at the end. Um, I didn't get selected for that either. Um, even though I think so interestingly what I realized there, my sprint was always fairly good for my weight and stuff. Yeah. Um, and I said, you know, it's good, but it's not track cycling good because I would have been track cyclists. Um, so it wasn't like that real power at that time. I didn't really have. Wow. That's, it's interesting. Well, what about being a pursuader or a points racer or Madison guy? I mean, that's interesting. Tell me this. When did you start to see a change in how you, in your progression? When did you start to see? Oh, I think I can do something with this. That's a very, that's a really good question. I feel like there's been, there's been different levels of realization. Oh, actually, you know, um, so I think the first one was probably 2018. So that was after I'd just come out of juniors. Yeah. And I started going into as I P1 to E1 to their over here races. And I was actually like competitive in those and I was like, Oh, actually, like, I've actually got some, you know, some fairly good legs. And that was, I think it was probably around then where I decided like, yeah, I want to, I want to eventually get to pro. That's like going to be my goal. I reckon that's probably around when I decided that because I was also around the time that I deferred my university. So I had a place at uni. And at that point, I made the decision to like, no, I want to really like hit cycling properly. Um, and then a similar thing. I guess it sort of happened a little bit to an extent each year where obviously I'm trying to get stronger each year. And I do get stronger each year. And I'm like, oh, actually, this I'm actually making progress because, you know, when three, four years ago, if I look at the numbers of pros, and you know, you ever see those like, um, power profiling charts where it's like, got the ortho here, from like cat four all the way up to pro. And you look at the top when like, that's, that's not humanly possible. Like I can't ever imagine doing that. But then I just slowly, it's just, that's the thing with cycling. It's just slowly, slowly chipping away. And then I was actually, it's like, oh, that's not that far away now. That's like, you know, a bit of a couple more years. And I'm, you know, I'm nearly there. And then some like the sprint, for example, I'm there. So it's just like that slow. It's cycling is just one of those things. There is no major, major breakthrough. I feel like it is just, can. consistency and chipping away. Yeah. Not bad. I, you know what? I do want to say this to you. I do respect the fact that you made a decision and you just gone after it. Because most people would be like, well, I'm not doing very good as a junior. So I probably have no opportunity or no chance to ever go pro, but you didn't think that you had enough self confidence and self awareness that you were willing to go for it. So I respect the shit out of that, man. Thank you, man. The funny thing is I just, I always forget this. So I said 2018 as when I sort of made that turn, but in 2016 or even 2015 just after my first race, the one I got laps three times and dropped from. When I put a post on Instagram, I put like hashtag pro cyclist, hashtag the training stars here. And I find it funny. Like I had no idea like what that means or like what, what I would need to do. But I was like, yeah, I'm going to be pro. Yeah. Oh my God. That's pretty good. Okay, tell me this. You, when did you start racing track? Because I've followed you and you were, man, you were killing it on the track. And I don't understand how you're still not on the program. So when did you start racing the track and how did you do right off the bat? It was at natural for you. So there's actually a fairly funny story about how I started track. So this was 2016. So still really early, first year junior and my friend in our club, there's a saturnian cycling club, the, you know, Facebook group. He puts a link to like, he somehow found that so you know London a six day. Yeah. It's for those who don't know, it's like a Madison racing. It's a really big event. They have an under 21 category. And for some reason, my friend had found that the entry for that, you could literally just enter on the website. He wasn't like an inside job thing like a inside contact thing that you need for most races at that level, but it was just on the website. So it puts the link in the website, Hey, anyone interested in this? This looks pretty cool. And I was like, Oh, I've never ridden track before, but that does look pretty cool. I'd be up for that. So we enter it and he's like, yeah, I've got spare track by Higginaborra. So we enter it. And somehow they reply like, yep, you're in the race. I'm like, right, we should probably do some training. Yeah, I think we did one or two Madison training sessions at the local art doorbell, a drone. Um, and then you know, we rock up there. Well, I'll hire guys. Yeah, we haven't ridden a Madison race before. I think the other races are more scared than us because they're like, right, these guys are going to crash or something. Um, but miraculously, we didn't crash over the three days racing. We lost like, I think 27 laps or 21 laps or something. Holy cow. I know. It was just we get laps. They come past us. We get lap. They come. We just were just on a different race. But it was like atmosphere is incredible. You know, the crowd, you know, Mark Cavendish is there. Like we got to meet Mark Cavendish and I gave him a little interview. Um, yeah. So that was like the first experience and then the following. I'm not sure if I did much in 2017. So I did a few like, there's not a huge amount of track racing in the UK, but there's a fair amount. So they'll be like a few events a year that's close enough for me. Yeah. But I did a few here and there. And then like he said, I realized like actually track and better at track than I on road. Naturally, um, it's funny. Like I'm just really, um, I'm really shifted towards being anaerobic. That's like what I'm naturally gifted at. So I've got the sprint. I've got that short power and then the aerobic stuff for road is something that I've had to train. Um, so yeah. And I love the track. I guess the thing is in the UK, there just isn't a huge, a huge scene for it. Um, and especially like once you get to the E12 level, once you start winning out of that, there isn't really like much progression beyond that. Um, and in terms of the, like you said, the UK program. So because I started cycling in the UK, I was naturally automatically put as British on the cycling license. And at that time, I think when I was under 23, so a few years ago now, I'd applied to, to be on their program, but it was just too old. So you have to really get in when you're junior, um, and then progress all the way through. If you don't get in from the bottom, you have like to get in halfway and it's just, you have to be so clearly better than everyone that it's just, it's not likely. Um, so now I represent Grenada. So that's a whole separate. Yeah. That's how it's going to ask you. I know that you switched to Grenada. So how does that work? Because is your mom from Grenada? Is your dad from Grenada? And how does that work? Is it dual citizenship? Yeah. So my mom is from Grenada. So I've got dual citizenship. Um, and the way it works with the UCI is so you automatically put in whichever, um, whichever country start racing and like when you're junior, you just automatically are that, um, nationality to the UCI. And then their rule is you can change twice in your career. So if I wanted to change that to British, which I won't, but I could, but then I couldn't go back to Grenade and again. So that's, that's the rule on that. Well, okay. So you've done quite well racing for Grenada. Okay. So 2021 road and TT champ. And then 2022 second in road. I couldn't find one for the TT. Did you do the TT this year? Um, what is this the Grenadian champs or? Yeah, the champs. Oh, okay. So yeah, Grenadian champs, I just did it this year and I did the road and time trial on one both. So that for the national champs last year, I did the Caribbean championships. And I got, it was third, but it was first on the 23. Yeah. So I got the gold medal for the under 23s road race then I didn't do the time trial. Wow. Yeah. So that was happy with that really happy with that. Okay. Tell me this when you're, when you're doing the, the championships there, who's all, who countries are involved in that one? So that's all the islands across the Caribbean. So that's, I guess, for them, trying to add in Tobago, uh, Grenada Jamaica, Jamaica. Yeah. Uh, uh, I'm going to need a chilly. Oh, that's why I'm not chilly. Um, Cuba, I'm thinking of, um, I can't think of, there's a good, I think there's a good 1520 Caribbean nations that compete. Okay. So here's my question to you. How does that race compare to, let's say a race on the continent? Was it pretty, was it equal or was it, what do you think? I would say the biggest difference is the, um, I don't have to describe it. I guess the, the range of abilities is a lot higher. So the top guys are really quite strong. So for example, this year, the Caribbean champs, the guy who won the TT, he was 13th at World Champs. So he's like, you know, he's good. He's really good. But the top guys are fast, but it's just because a lot of the islands don't have the opportunities to race outside of the island. So because they haven't had that experience, it just means it's hard for them to develop at the, at the same rate. So there is a wide, um, range of abilities. But then there's also Pan American championships, which is the whole of North and South America, Caribbean, you know, the whole continent, which I did that last year and this year as well, how'd you do? Well, last year, um, to this day, one of the worst, like, yeah, actually, it's just the saddest thing that's, what other side is it's just the most horrible thing that's ever happened to be able to bike. So it was a pan black race. I'm a sprint. And that's like, yeah, that's pretty good. Um, and literally, like, concern energy, the whole race into the final 500 meters, the Colombians were controlling the whole race. They had a lead out train. I was in the back of their sprinter, like, yeah, this is looking pretty good. Um, and then we're about 400 to go, uh, another guy crashed into the Colombian sprinter. They wipe out. I had no way to go crash into the back of them. And the win of the race was the Colombian, the final lead out, man. So, yeah. Yeah. And then just while we're in the, to get all the bad stories out at the same time, this year, the Caribbean championships was at the same place as the Pan American championships last year. So pan black course again. I was like, okay, I'm way stronger than I was last year. I managed to get in a two up, a two up, uh, with about four kilometers to go. And I was pretty confident that the guy was, was swinging. So I went to a staff game and then my chain twisted. Um, well, I thought I dropped the chain. I tried to pick it back on, but it kept coming off, kept coming off. I stopped and looked, chain twisted. Um, you know, everyone comes fast. Me, uh, so I think that place is cursed. I love. Come on, man. We're going to stay positive. You're going to race back there one day and you're going to win, okay? This is what I'm saying. That's what I say now. But at the time, my first reaction was like, I'm going to come back again. I never want to come to the place again. But no, it's the nine twice. I'm sorry to laugh at your pain, but that's pretty good response. I take this place over. I hate this place. Oh, that's okay. Tell me this. Now your first pro, your first pro team was V this pro cycling. Yeah. Okay. How did that come about? So that was another one where I guess me being savvy. I was at the end or towards the middle of 2018. I was like, I want to go on a UCI protein or UCI continental team. I should say. And I was like, really one that I need that for my development. So I emailed every team. You know, I wrote our full CV. That's something that I've been quite. I remember since I've been younger, my dad's always like, help me write out CVs. And I got to the point where, you know, we draw stuff out, we work it through and like, I'm captain, this is the right one. But we send it across. And I send it to everyone except, well, I sent to everyone except beat us because I couldn't find their email address. And I looked and I didn't have a contact from so I was like, I guess. you know, five hour six is good, but we're just like, I can't get in contact. And then two weeks later, I was randomly going through the UCI website. And I just stumbled across the email address. It was like in a tab or something. I was like, oh, cool. I just got to copy that, send the thing and think nothing more of it. Because it's, you know, probably not going to get her reply. And then like another week or so later, I get her response like, Hey, Red, we've looked at your YouTube channel. We really like your videos without you to come up to the, to the HQ and have a look around. And I was like, Oh, that's pretty good. So they show me to the HQ, they talk about how they run the team and at the end of it, they're like, yeah, we, uh, we like everything on the team next year. So I was like, yeah, so yes, please. Holy cow, that's, man, it's so random. I know, I know. Okay, tell me this. How was the team? Um, how many riders were on and how did you do? So it was 18 18 riders on the team, maybe 17 or something like that. Wow, that's a nice, continental team, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Wow. So then, yes, they had, you know, training camp was amazing. It was like this five star hotel in Calvary. And you know, we've got amazing riders on the team, like Ed Clancy, you know, Olympic gold, murder list. So to get the experience and speak to those guys was, was awesome. Yeah. And then it got towards the race season and it was, I'll be honest, straight up, it was really, really frustrating. I was like the second youngest guy on the team, probably have the least kind of experience. But I just wasn't getting the racing opportunities. So to race in the bigger race with the whole team there, I just didn't go until about halfway into the season and, you know, they take me to the races that no one else wanted to do. Um, so I did about like three or four races with the team and the rest of the, yeah, I was doing the same stuff I was doing the year before except now I'm on my own. And not only am I my own, I've got a, you know, a pro team jersey. So it's like, I'm doing the same races, but everyone's following me because I've got the jersey. Um, and I didn't really have quite the strength that I'd need to back it up because I was just so young. I think I was like 19. Yeah. Um, so I don't regret it because, you know, there was a lot of learning there, but I did, I think in retrospect, it probably wasn't the best, the best team for me for my development and things like that. Yeah. Let me back up because I, it's something just came into my head. You did do some racing in Spain. Uh, that, so that was a bit later on actually. That was in 20, 20 year after. Okay. Or yes, the year after. Okay. Okay. So let's move forward. You did some racing and talk to me about that racing in Spain because you actually won a race in Spain. Did you won quite several races in Spain? I was just the one race in Spain. I just posted it a lot of times because I get excited about it. Talk to me about what was the decision to go in race in Spain, considering, okay. Um, what I know of racing in Spain, I've had several friends of mine that I grew up with that race there. The races are quite hilly. So to see a sprinter goal to race in Spain, what was the decision behind that? Well, so the decision to actually go to Spain, it was training camp. So it was literally just January. I think the first four weeks of the year, basically, uh, we're out in Spain because this was the first proper training camp. I've done like off-mode back. We did the one like I said with the team, but that was, you know, 10 days real intense training. This was, you know, go out in Spain for a month, avoid the crappy British weather, because I'm, I'm pretty susceptible to the cold anyway. So there was, there was no plan to actually do any racing. I think until a couple weeks into the camp. Um, and someone I like knew told me, Hey, look, there's this race series that's on in Calpe. And it's like, you know, real, real close. So I was like, yeah, that's like, like, like I said, I'm so, so competitive. And by the time I get to January, usually after about two or three months of racing, I'm like, super eager to race. So I saw these races. Um, and I was like, yeah, I'll sign up for that. Um, annoyingly. So this is just really sad actually. So I signed up to the one the week before this was on my birthday. Uh, January 19th. I was like, yes, I'm going to win a race on my birthday. It's going to be so cool. I absolutely hyped myself up for it. Um, but I miss. I couldn't get the, I got the information wrong for the start time. So I thought it was nine, or I thought it was 10 and it was actually nine. So how's it riding to the start? We start seeing motorbikes coming towards us like convoy motorbikes. I'm like, ask with. And then also, and we see the peloton racing towards us. I'm like, how is this happened? And I, you know what? I think I haven't been that angry since then. And I don't want to be like, I was so like, I think that's once I, once I convinced myself that I'm going to win, it's like, in or even, I guess not even going to win, but the chance of winning, it's like, right, that's like, it's such a laser focus. Yeah. And then just like the disappointment, it's like, that's just the same disappointment as crashing out of a race or something. Um, anyway, so that was, I was like, damn, that sucks. So then there was one the next week, which I'd also entered. I was like, right, I'm going to win this one. I'm going to get there at the right time and I'm going to win it. So this was like a fairly flat course. Um, and then it was just literally a four minute climb at the end. Um, and the way interestingly, the racing in Spain, the style is so different. So in the UK, it's just so aggressive that like people will keep going until the break goes. And then that will be the break basically. It would just force itself away in Spain. It's, it's much more like well to racing where it's really controlled. Um, there'll be teams that control it and then bring it to the bottom of the climb. And then it kicks off like hard. So yeah, I ended up winning that race. Um, a guy, um, but the guy who came second is well torn out. He writes a mob is star. Um, so it's like that, that's pretty cool. Although, you know, he was a really strong climber. And I basically sound for half the time. But, you know, there's still racing. So racing is racing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I always see it if you're the strongest guy drop. Yeah, yeah, if you don't drop me, I'm coming around. Wait, exactly. Exactly. I'm a sprinter. You have to, you have to, you're probably to figure out if you want to drop me. I like the way you put that is your problem to figure out. That's the way to look at. Damn. Okay. So going into, when did, how did Hagen's bourman come about? Because I know that I always blow this guy's name. So please forgive me if I say it. That's right. Dale Hagen Hart. Hey, Hagen Hart. Yeah. Okay. So how did Hagen's bourman come about? And what did you think when you got the call or message that you were on the team? Yeah. So it was, so just a little bit of backstory. I was racing in France that season for a club over there, which just the one side is the most fun. I've ever had racing. I think still the racing in France, the crowds. Like just everything the atmosphere is so, it's so fun that they just love it. They simply put, they love biograising. Okay. So then let me ask you this. Did the racing in France fit your style of racing? I think so. I think, yeah. Yeah. I think so. I mean, it's difficult to say because they didn't do a huge amount of racing in the end, but like, I loved it. And I was pretty successful at it, especially in the criterion and stuff. So that was, that was pretty cool. But I'm actually to the Hargons Berman thing. Hey, the egg and a heart, he was doing an initiative where he, you know, as we all know, cycling is not a device that I diver sport at all. No. So he had an initiative where he wanted to help out and sponsor a BME BME rider to get to give an opportunity to ride on on Hargons Berman. So he was like, yeah, I applied for that. I message him, you know, right out the full draft. Like, you know, as much as just given every reason to pick me that I can and I kept messaging following up being like, you know, being enthusiastic and stuff. Because I was enthusiastic. And then, you know, he got to like July, he messaged me like, hey, give me your number. I have a message for you. So then he, you know, he watched out to me. He's like, yeah, I've, uh, you know, picked you for the spot. And I was like, that was, it was so cool. I had a race the next day. I couldn't focus on it at all. I had the three hour drive. I was just like mine just going crazy. Because it's, you know, it's, it's literally the best, probably the best under 23 team in the world. Yes. And so the opportunity was absolutely huge. And that was at the exact same time that I changed to Grenada as well. So I had all these opportunities like just everything was just looking great. So I did these two races with Hargons Berman in Belgium, which is a 1.1 and a 1.0, which is the second and third highest. Here of racing that you can do. And it's, you know, these races, Remco, Remco won both of them, I think. So I'm racing on a race of Remco. There's Juno and I believe to my left. There's like, um, ah, there's just all these like proper, proper, proper cyclists. Um, so yeah, that was just an incredible experience. Okay. Let me ask you this then. What did you think of the Belgian racing? Did it fit you also or was it a new, a complete new style for you? I think it's hard to say because just because the level is so different, the, you know, that level of racing at that point was always going to be just a little bit out of my depth. Um, so getting used to that style is, is different. But so next year, I'm going to be racing in Belgium again a lot. So hopefully I'll, I think that style will suit me more. Yeah. Yeah, back to those races then it was just the way, the way the pro races work. I think pro racing as a style is, is like above what, you know, a regional style of racing. Might be just because the pro races are always controlled. Um, I mean, you know, they vary a bit, but it's a very different all together, a different capital of fish. I would think that the one thing that's, um, I think new would be new for anybody, especially you just going in is the depth of people that could possibly win the damn race. - Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's funny, exactly. So this is whenever I'm in that kind of race, it's like every single one of these people here could come to a race in the UK and just smash it up. It's just like when you think of that and like yet the depth, it's insane. - Wow. - Okay, so how do you think you did with Hagen's permit? - It was a very tough learning curve. So I'd come, it was just the timing of it, it didn't fit exactly right. So I'd come from Caribbean championships. They wanted me to switch bike to the Pinarello. Obviously they were sponsored by Pinarello. So I'd switch bike to the Pinarello literally the day before that first race. So, to get used to a new bike like that, it's fit, and I'm not the fastest person to do that either. So just the day before and a new saddle as well, I wanted to keep my saddle, but I had to use a different saddle, which, you know, and I was, it was not a comfy day on the bike. I'll say that and that led to an understatement. So it just, it wasn't ideal. So I got those two races and I was meant to have more and then I got ill. And I just, I what, it took me ages to recover as well. So I was meant to do World Champs as well, it was in Belgium and then one more race with Hagen's permit, which both didn't end up doing. So that was like, it did cut the up strings short a little bit, but it was still like a cool experience just to get the race to that team. - Not bad. Okay, so the next year, so how did, this is one question I want to ask you is, how did the, the ribble well tight pro cycling team come to you? Is that because of your, and I'm not sure if you're still coached by him, is it Colin? - Yes, yes. - Are you still coached by him? - No, no, not anymore. - Okay, so how did that all come about the ribble? Because what I know of UK cycling of racing, you have, you used, you had a very famous world's, racing road racing series at one time. And you have some very, very difficult criteria. How did that, that ribble come about? Because you're off of Hagen's permit, you're probably looking for a team and then what happened? - Yeah, so obviously, being on Hagen's permit really helped, in terms of the profile and, you know, producer where I grew up. So that was a big deal. And then my coach at the time, Colin, he was the D.F. direct sporty of the team. So it was quite easy for him to, you know, put me in touch and get the conversations going. And it, you know, very quickly went from there. It was, it was a really difficult decision in the end. It was between ribble and then there was a French team, a division one team, which is just below continental level. - Yeah. - The Joaquin, but because, I don't know how in America, you guys are of Brexit, is it means that to go to Europe, you can only spend 90 days out of the last 180 days. So basically half your time maximum in Europe. So it makes it very difficult to live out there. And in retrospect, I think it would have been possible, but I sort of close it off as an option. I think, yeah, I think there was more racing opportunities in France, if I'm honest. The UK scene is just, it's taken a few hits over the last few years, like our national series has gone from probably 12 or something to 6th this year. - Wow. - And that's, you know, that's over the course of a few years. It's just been dwindling, like we lose a race or two every year. And then racing abroad, we just weren't doing that many UCI races. I think there was a couple of stage races, which I wasn't selected for, and then a couple of one days. So I know I'm doing one one one day race, and then the Tour of Britain, which I found out like six days before that I was doing it. So it wasn't, it wasn't bad. I don't want to, I don't want to undersell it, because it was still like a great group of teammates. And I still, you know, I still developed a lot on the bike racing, but it just wasn't the calendar that I really needed. - Okay, then I got to ask you this. Is that tough, is that tough to deal with when you're not, you're all you're doing is training and you're not racing? - Yeah, I mean, is it, is it tough to stay motivated as my question, I guess? - Yes, I think to be fair, I think that was the most prominent of a problem in 2020. Like obviously with the whole, as we were experience of COVID and everything, that was like the extreme example of it's just training their racing. And I think that prepared me to, I feel like I could, you know, I could train as much as, I could train for a whole year if that's what had to happen since then. Like I, I, I'm so, I'm quite good at focusing on, on the end goal. So to me, it's like, it doesn't matter if I'm not racing. As long as I'm getting better, then I'll get to the next race at the level, at a better level or the level that I need to be. So it's not, I've managed to find like, I guess, solid in the fact that even if I'm not doing those super high level races now, as long as I'm training and really getting the most out that I will keep developing and I will get the opportunity if I'm good enough. Like I went through a phase where I was really worried about I need the opportunity, I need the opportunities like so bad. That's all I need. That's all I need. But I've sort of come to a point now where it's like, if I train and say I get to a point where I could win toward a front stage is, I'm not going to be that rider and not get opportunities to race at that level. Like if I was that good, it would very quickly become apparent and I would get the opportunity. So I think the whole focus on me kind of attitude to it is where I'm at now. Not bad. OK. So for 2023, you're riding for XP United? Yes. Yes. OK. Talk to me about how that opportunity came about and what are your thoughts so far? So first thing, I'm so excited. I'm so, so excited. It's a funny one, really. I was taught, I've been talking to the managers there for the last two or three years, actually. But I just wasn't sure who was going to work for various reasons. So I ended up taking that different option for the last couple of years. But on reflection, I think coming to this year, I was like, actually, I think this is where I need to be. I look at the riders on the team, I look at the races they're doing. That's the races I want to be doing. But it was actually quite an easy decision I made in summer, really. So yeah, like I said, I'm super excited to be racing with them. The calendar is like incredible. So you know, we're doing UCI 1.1s, 1.2s, 2.2s. Like the UCI race days that I'll be getting, what I should be getting as a team is really, really good. And then the other bonus is that another one of my, so one of my teammates from this year, Matt King, he's going to be joining me. So that's really cool just to have someone, you know, friendly face that you know, invoces and stuff. Where's the team based out of? Is it Flemish or is it well on? So the team is registered in Canada, but the base, I'm not actually sure exactly where the base is. I think it is in North represent Belgium on the Netherlands, but a lot of the riders are sort of spread through, through here. OK, tell me this, when's your first, have you got clothing? You got a new bike ready to have you guys had an early camp yet? So clothing, we literally just got sent the email for sizing. So I literally just need to figure out sizing today and get that sent off. And then the cool thing, so about bikes, we have the opportunity to have our own sponsors for that or our own partners. So we've got kind of free reign on that one. And I've got, I can't announce anything yet, but I've got a like, like, the choice that, what I wanted I got. So I've got a really cool sponsor for bikes. And same with wheels, actually, I've got a, like, if you had to ask me what bike do I want and what wheels are, I've got, I've got both of them. So when I announce that, I'll be so excited to announce that when I do. No, man. Yeah. So when's your first race or when are you guys going to have your first team camp? Yeah, so I think team camp will be in March. I've got my own camp for first six weeks of the year next year. So January and first couple weeks of February in Calpe. Again, that's like my, the place I'll probably end up going forever now. First race, I'm not sure exactly when it will be for me. I think it will be in March. There's a, there's either a 1.1 in Germany or a 2.2. Summer. Is either a 1.1 or a 2.2. So that like, it should be some really good racing. And then the first race that I'm like 100% certain on is Pan American Championships. Yeah. So that's in April, right start of April and Panama. And like I'm so, so motivated to just pan American Championships. Like the Jersey. I just, I just a continent to be a continental champion. And you know, I look, you look at the map and you've got that whole North America Caribbean, South America. And I just want to say I'm the champion and all of that. But it's all, that's all me. I'm loving, I love it. I can't, I'm so, so motivated, especially after that crash. You know, that, that's just, I want it so bad. So this year at the Pan American Championships, it was in Argentina. Yeah. And I, I spent like just a, just a, a horrible amount of my money to get there on the flights. Because it was like a really obscure place. It took four flights to get there. Wow. The second flight was delayed. So I missed my connections. It took me 48 hours. Even more from door to door. It was the worst, well, the second world travel experience of my life. And I'll tell you why in a second, because the worst one was about a week later coming home when they put my bike on the wrong flight. So I had to wait for it. And I let you have to spend 24 hours in the air. therefore literally just inside the doors in the cold hallway. It was horrible. - Man, that's horrible. - You know what, I feel like I've lived through it now and it's hardened me as a person, so I can laugh at it now, but I didn't like playing for a long time after that. - You have got some stories, man. That is what I hate to laugh at your pain, but that's a good story, dude. I gotta give you that. - No, I can laugh at it now. I can laugh at it now, but me sprinting across the airport in the last-ditch hope that I'd make this flight and then getting there and being told, well, they didn't set out or set out, it was closed, and I was just like, just, oh, it's just the worst. - Oh my gosh, dude. Okay, so it's off season for you. When did it start for you and what type of training have you been doing? - Yeah, so it started when I got back from Caribbean Championships on the 23rd of October. So we're now like three, no, nearly, wow, four weeks in. And so this has been four weeks off the bike completely. Previous years I've done about two to three weeks off, but this year I've got a new coach and he's looked at my training and said, take four weeks off, especially because I've had a late season this year, ending last rate at the end of October is quite like a lot of people have their last mid-October or even early October. So I've started this week, actually, I've been doing back in the gym with my strength coach. And I'll do another week, next week in the gym, doing as much, just to get that initial muscle harness out of the way. So then I can start doing gym and training and it's not gonna impact it too much. - Yeah. - So then yeah, I'll start next week on the bike. Sorry, the week after next week on the bike and that'll be gentle, you know, easing to it. 'Cause I've got a lot of time this year, so first race in March and that's, you know, that's probably not gonna end up being target, target races. So I've got time to build into it. And yeah, I just need to keep telling myself not to panic 'cause it's so easy to be like, I need to train, I need to train, I need to train, but just to stay relaxed, it's gonna be a long season as well next year. 'Cause the, so the Pan American Games, which is different from the championship, that's right at the end of October again. So it's essentially, I guess I need to think of it's shifting the season to a month later where I might start in early March, February and go to October, it's now, you know, late March and then go all the way until end of October. - Not bad, not bad. - Good good. If you don't mind me asking, why are the changing coach? 'Cause you'd be, I understand as you'd been with Kotlin for quite a while. - Yeah, so I've been with him for just over two years. - Yeah. - And I've changed coach with my previous coach. I've been, so I had one coach before him and then I've been on PIM for two years and then changing coach, I changed. Well, yeah, just for off season basically, so you know, end of the season, then change coach. And I think for me, it was mainly like, I just wanted a different approach, a different way of looking at things, 'cause I think it's very easy to, to end up, I guess without having a new pair of eyes on it, it's like there could be ways that might give you improvements so you're not seeing and a different approach. I think for me, the new coach is very much an analytical kind of guy, which fits in, I guess my first coach is analytical, but it wasn't working for me. This, the next coach was, yeah, a lot of experience, which was, I think that has helped me improve, like miles and miles, but maybe wasn't that quite analytical where again, so I thought, I wanna try this analytical, see if it works for me, see if, see if there's any gains, 'cause I think, you know, I'll keep collecting information in my head and I feel like if it's a different view, you know, I guess I can, you'd be smarter for it and train better. - Not bad, not bad. What's the ultimate goal for Red Walters? - Well, I'm very, very much a believer in that you shouldn't limit a goal for any reason for anything. You know, I would love to say, and it's weird, 'cause I feel like I have the goals in my head and then I have the goals that I say out loud, which sometimes a slightly more modest version of the goals in my head. You know, I'd like to be a winning World Tour Races, say to your, you know, say to your grand tours, you know, say to the Tour de France, for example. That would be like insane. Another thing, like with Grenadier as well, I've got really big ambitions, Grenadier, I want to go to the Olympics in 2024. That is like, that is just as a thing to say, I want to go to the Olympics, it's so crazy to me. And never said, I always said, I'd never get a tattoo. 'Cause if I went to the Olympics, I'd get Olympic brings tattoo. - Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Where do you see yourself in the next five years? - I think, yeah, so in the next, let's say in the next two or three years, I definitely want to be, you know, at a World Tour level on a World Tour team, you know, just competing at that top level. Five years, I guess I'd like to say, I'd like to do a lot of those goals, you know? I think, I mean, five years. That's almost double the amount of time I've been cycling. I've been cycling six and a half years, I think. So in actually five years, I'd like to think I should really be like, if I haven't achieved a lot, you know, or I'm on the cusp of my big goals at that point, it's like, okay, maybe we need to think a little bit. But as long as, I think as long as I keep improving you and you, then I will get to my goals. And yeah, I guess five years to be a bit more precise, you know, definitely on a World Tour team. Definitely want to have a few pro wins, my name. I would love to say Pan American Champion. I would absolutely love to say Pan American Champion. Yeah. - Well, tell me this, last couple of questions I know you're busy. Has the pro life been what you thought it would be? - That's a good question. So I feel like it's, I guess I didn't really think about exactly the lifestyle for me, because I'm so motivated, it's about the goals. And to answer your question, there are sacrifices. There's like a lot of sacrifices, I think. But it's like, it's just, it's not even a question. It's always a no-brainer. It's always like, oh yeah, of course, like I want to, I'm doing things because I want to have something else. And it's like, it's an easy, it's easy to say, no, sorry. Like, for example, a lot of the things are social sacrifices. So if my friends say, you know what, let's do this, let's do that. And I'm like, no, I need to recover tonight because I've got a massive training block. And if I go out, even if something is simple, it's like, holding or something, which is something in my mind, it's to a fair bit, just for fun. It's like, how's that going to affect me tomorrow if I'm really fatigued? So there's been a few like social sacrifices. Obviously, food sacrifices, although I feel like with cycling, it's not too bad. You know, if you just pick your moments when you want to have a little cake or a little XYZ every now and then it's not, it's not super difficult. I guess the last major sacrifice for me has been like education. I was always quite, I guess, I was always quite academic. And even though it was something I wanted to do to not go to uni, it's like, it's taken me a while to accept that that's not something I'm doing because I think academics was like a really big part of my personality and I was proud of that and to let that side go a little bit. It's like, I don't know, it's a weird one. I'm sort of, I've come to terms with it now, but there was a big time when it was like, I guess part of my ego was like a little bit damaged by the fact that I hadn't gone. - That's an inch, wow, that's actually, that's not that bad. It's cool to hear that education is important to you. So yeah, that's cool. There's something I do have to ask you. So looking at each other, we're both black men. When writing, you're from the UK, I'm from the United States. When racing all over the continent or racing in the UK, I'm not sure that you see a lot of people that look like you at your level. Is it, have you come to terms with it? Is I don't know if that's the best way to put it? Or is it still kind of shocking to you that you don't see it? Or do you just say, you know what, it is what it is and I get on with the job. - Yeah, I mean, yeah, in the UK, is equally bad the diversity. If I go to a national series race in the UK, there's one other guy or he's not there, and it's just me. It's just like the diversity is shocking. At least at the top level, it's to be fair, it is growing, especially in London, it's actually looking really good. I don't live that close to London, but it looks really good, the scene's looking a lot better. To answer whether I've come to terms with it, it's interesting because it's a bit of background. I grew up in London until I was 11, and then my family did a bit of like a sailing trip for a couple of years where we sailed to the Caribbean and lived over there for a little bit with my grandma. - What? - Yeah. - Okay. - Thank you. - So that was like a two year gap year in age 11, and then we came back, but then we lived, so now we live in Southampton, which is Hampshire, or I don't live in Southampton, I just say that I live in Hampshire. It's a really not diverse place really at all. So for the last, let's say 10, 8, 10 years of my education, I was in a school where it was equally bad. Like there was like one other black guy or two other black guys in my year. So it's like, for those of you who are in the same class, first couple years coming back, it was weird and it was like an adaptation process. But now it is kind of like I'm used to it, which is it has challenged like my idea of identity like a lot. I feel like the last few years I've gone through a lot of shifts in identity and that kind of thing. And I feel like I'm happy in a place where I'm at now, but there was a while where I was just really, I'm gonna say lost, it sounds a bit too profound, but like there was a bit where I was just not entirely sure, like I'm at identity I guess. And I think that's that's that's that is impacted a bit by the cycling in the same way where the other artist isn't there. But like he said, I feel like I have to come to terms with it, like I can't go to the same every race and be shot. I can do everything I can to try and help that like BCN have done a lot in the UK of you know trying to really bring in that uptake of the rest of the encyclin and I've done what I can to support that. But like you say at the top level of race like at UCI races, damn it's just me, it's just me. There's like, you know, there's a group of guy like a dozen guys in the scene, especially in Europe, it's just not. In fact actually saying that is better at the very top level, you know, you go up to World Tour and there's actually like, I mean, this is all it's bad, but it's, you know, there's a handful of guys in a race maybe. So like Torbricht in this year, there was quite maybe five guys maybe. So that's, you know, it's better, but it's just still it's it's not a lot. Wow. What does Red Walters like to do away from the bike? I mean, do you like, do you play video games? Do you read? Do you like watching Netflix? Do you walk on the beach with your girl hand in hand and a rainy day in the UK? Yeah, so it's funny. I used to play video games so much like before cycling, it was video games. That was it, you know, I spent summer holidays. It's like 12 to 14 hours a day. We're on the game with my mate. Like, it's a good line addiction like broke. We used to play so so much. And then, you know, it's over the years, it's just been, you know, less and less and less. Partly because part of that is because when friends are playing as much, you know, I don't play as like, I don't want to play on my own. It's boring, but recently I've been playing a little bit more, but it's just it's not the same. So, yeah, like I said, I spend a lot of time with my girlfriend actually. She's recently gone to uni, so that's why I've got a bit more time because she's like a four-hour drive away. So I see her, you know, every couple weeks or every few weeks or something, which is not not too bad. But so I've always got that to look forward to see her. And then I'll stop at play guitar. And then basically just chat to my friends, like, you know, I spend a lot of time like when I make talking on my mates. And then it is cycling. Like, sometimes I do think sometimes I should probably, you know, do a bit more away from cycling, but I'm so like obsessed. Like, everything is just cycling on my main. The people I talk to the most and my cycling friends. The thing I look at YouTube at the most is probably cycling stuff. I mean, there's a few of the interests. I feel like I have a lot of small interests that I might like to do a bit of research into something like, for example, I've got a 3D printer. I like to 3D model stuff and print stuff. I want to try and make some like time trial bars. Yeah. I'm trying to make some of those and see if I can get some decent come out of that. I tried to make some carbon fiber shoes once that failed, but I tried. There's always a little project on the go somewhere. Oh, the carbon fiber shoes that didn't go too well. Yeah, I think I've still got them. Sorry. I think somewhere in my house we've got these like plaster concrete molds in my feet that we made to use it. And then they still just sit in there somewhere. Okay, are you an only child? No, I've got a sister. Oh, you got it? Okay, okay, because I've never seen a picture of her. Okay. Yeah, no, I mean, my sister is an absolute legend. So she, for the last few years, she's been like really into the gym. So she's like absolutely hench. It's quite funny. We've just started to be quite like good jeans or something. So it's quite cool to see her progressing through the gym after I've started progressing through the cycling as well. Wow, wow. Okay, are you still living with your parents? Yeah, yeah. Not bad, not bad. Yeah, cycling doesn't, cycling doesn't pay enough to move out just yet. Well, at least you're honest about it. That's pretty cool. Yeah, no, no shame, no shame. My parents are cool. Okay, so what, they're just coming to my head. What constitutes a good season for, for red Walters in 2023? Let me ask you that. Okay, so I want to win a UCI like a 1.2. That's ambitious, but I think it's possible. I think if I keep developing it, the way I have been, I think I can do that. Pan American champs, like I said, I want to win that. So about it, it might even be on a really hidden course, but I still really want to win that. I want to get my vengeance and win Caribbean champs too. And then I want to do more track as well. So hopefully get a bit of track experience and then come into Pan American games and win track. And then also World Champs, I'm doing World Champs. I can't expect to win World Champs because that's just a different level. But just to do respect to finish World Champs, for example, would be pretty cool. And then also on the track, there's World Champs on the track in the same place, same time. So that's quite cool because it's literally in Scotland. So real first. Not bad, not bad. Okay, Red Walters, I want to say thank you for giving me some time with the Tour de Tide Cycling Podcast. It has been a treat, my brother. Thank you for having me on that. I appreciate it. It's been some really interesting questions. I even find myself saying stuff that I've forgotten about. I didn't even realize, I'm like, oh, that's an insight to me as well. Well, that's good, man. It's not your usual interview. I'm glad. Yeah, no, definitely. It's been good. [Music]