Recycled bumpers and interior parts made of beetroot - Škoda develops more sustainable materials

How can we build a more sustainable car? Find out in today's SimpliCleverPodcast. How can we boost sustainability in the automotive industry? This podcast will not be about petrolheads and EV drivers locking horns. Instead we'll be taking a deep dive into the materials, the cars are made of both inside and out. In line with circular economy principles, the EKX department at Shukura Auto is looking for new materials from interior details made of biomaterials which are still in the early prototype phase to the bumper to bumper project, which is almost production ready and involves used bumpers being recycled from the scrappy art. The guests on this episode are Lukash Zuzanik and Daliber Kopac from this department. In collaboration with prototype center and design department, they have built a special showcar, a demonstrator. It's actually a port generation Octavia with some doors and sections cut away. Check out the YouTube version of the podcast to see it. It allows you to see into the car and examine the tested materials close up. I jumped at the opportunity to take a look and ask Lukash Zuzanik and Daliber Kopac to record this podcast while we are sitting next to the demonstrator. Panoeviteitev simpel clever podcastu. Dobrijen. Dobrijen. All right, gentlemen, welcome to Simpel clever podcast. Hello, hi. We'll be talking about materials today, which is why we have the sample car, the demonstrator ready behind you. You mentioned the EKX abbreviation. Let's explain what this department is responsible for. Sure. As I mentioned, it's a technical development department and the X specifically means that our fields of interest are overlapping. They don't fit precisely into individual departments, so our task is to deal with topics that overlap across various departments. If I were to be specific about the EKX2 group, we focus on three main areas, one of which is material development. It involves testing properties and material requirements. We of course cooperate with other specialized teams, then other activities include corrosion testing of the entire vehicle and weather resistance of the entire vehicle in the pre-series phase, and then the quality department takes over. Today we will talk mainly about the development of new materials. You mentioned that it is overlapping. That's what I would expect that this topic will have some overlap, perhaps even with design department. Definitely. Actually, at the beginning of each project or during the planning phase, even when the project is created, design plays the main role. We cooperate closely with the design department to meet both the visual requirements, as well as the material and functional properties. We gathered here specifically to talk about materials that are recycled, or somehow built on the principles of the circular economy. Why did you delve into this topic? What is the benefit that your department is looking for by focusing on the optimal use of materials? Start by giving you a broader perspective. In my opinion, we're definitely not indifferent to the fate of our planet, what will happen, and what impacts all these materials and car production in general have on the environment. This is certainly something we look into. It's also part of our corporate strategy. If we did nothing, I think the catastrophic scenarios that we hear about around the world would definitely catch up with us in a little later. So, seeking out these, let's say, non-virgin materials, or those car pieces where a virgin plastic can be replaced, play a relatively large role in your environmental efforts. Sure, the amount of plastic used in a car obviously varies depending on its type and size, but if we take a common standard-sized car, for example, the Octavia model, it contains around 250 kilograms of plastic, correct me if I'm wrong, Lukash, and the weight of such a car is 1.5 tons. So, here you see how much plastic is contained compared to metal or glass. Today, we will not only talk about recyclables in the sense of reused plastic, but we will also talk about alternative materials. But since we've touched on it already, you mentioned the estimated amount of plastics in a car. So, let's look at the demonstrator behind us. Where exactly can you find some alternatives? Where is it reasonable to look for some? Let's maybe talk about it in general, not just about plastics, but about the whole car. When we look at this car, it's not just plastics. There are many other materials. A large part of the car or the biggest weight of it is made up of metals, steel. Currently, steel scrap is used to produce new steel and new alternatives are being sought to allow for greater use than before. Or take aluminium. We already have, for example, cast automotive parts such as engine blocks and gearboxes made of recycled aluminium. So, here a large amount of recycled material is also already being used. Let me emphasise that aluminium wheels do not use recycled material yet, but we're working on it, negotiating with suppliers about the possibility of using recycled aluminium for wheels too. In glass production, the generated waste is used in the production of the next batch of new glass, so that also helps. Actually, in general, glass and aluminium are relatively easily recyclable. Relatively, yes, but there are some challenges associated to recycled materials and material requirements, particularly in industries like automotive, where the regulatory and safety standards are very high. For example, we've been looking at operational fluids, such as oil, brake fluid and coolant, and we look for ways to recycle these. But recently, a lot of attention has been paid to recycling plastic parts and polymers in general, but back to your question as to where we can recycle these materials. Let me start with where we are already recycling. We have a demonstrator here, so you can see nicely that we use recycled plastic for things like wheel arches and the underbody covers of cars. Carpets are also an interesting material, because here recycled polyester fiber is used, which comes from recycling pet bottles. So these are the materials we are already using in cars, and of course, we're exploring other possibilities, such as recycling bumpers and other plastic parts. I just want to go back to what you were saying about recycled aluminium, not being used as much for wheels. Is it because wheels are exposed to more stress than other load-bearing aluminium parts? Yes, definitely. It's a critical safety component, and there is no room for any compromise in the integrity of the wheel. The purity of the material is crucial to meet the necessary requirements and properties during the wheel's production. Using recycled material could potentially introduce different materials from different producers, especially during the collection process, which could lead to, I don't want to say, impurities, but to some changes in the material's chemical composition. This in turn could have consequences, such as alterations in mechanical behaviour. So that's the reason for it. When it comes to design, as Dallabor mentioned, it's important to consult it with the design team, and here alternatives are already being sought. Sometimes it's actually desirable to show that the material is from some recycled content, that there is an added element to it, so that the customer sees that it's not just regular plastic, but that in the manufacturing of the material and the part recycled or renewable material was used, and thus it protects the environment. So sometimes, the aim is also to intentionally show the customer that the part is already made from some recycled content or that some kind of renewable material is used. I see, to show that you are making an effort. Exactly. Now let's talk about this specific project, because you have recently revealed your new project called Bumper to Bumper. That means if I understand it correctly, that you are already able to recycle the material from discarded bumpers, of old cars from somewhere, I don't know, probably a scrappy art, into new bumpers that can be used on the car, correct? Yes, it's exactly as you say, we create bumpers from old car bumpers from scrap yards, from parts at the end of their lifespan that are collected and transported to a recycling company. Here is also an important piece of information regarding the collection of these bumpers. It may not just be specific scoda bumpers, but it can also be other brands, because bumpers have a big advantage in the sense that the main load bearing part, we're talking about polypropylene, which is these big painted parts, all the car companies use the same. They use the same material, the same concept for these big parts here. So it's possible to use all the bumpers from all the other brands out there and then work with that. The process involves collecting the bumpers, which are then sent to a recycling company, where they are crushed to form granules. They are really crushed, the bumpers are crushed and the granules are created. While this process seems relatively clear and straightforward, there are two important, very important steps. The first is that when you have that bumper, as I mentioned, it contains a large part of polypropylene, but there are also other materials, there are other types, there are grids for example, or the main grill, the grill as we know it. So there is a different material and we need the resulting granules to be homogenous, because it's necessary to maintain the purity of the material to be able to produce new parts. Therefore, in the first step, the bumpers must be crushed and separated, so that only one type of material remains. We're talking about polypropylene here, because the main and largest part of the bumper is made out of this material. In recycling companies, they work with separations, densities and vortex currents, and they're able to separate and ensure high purity in terms of material type, as well as purity with regard to dust particles. They say that it's necessary to achieve 99.8% purity to really have a single material end product. This is the first very important thing. And the second challenge we've been dealing with over the last couple of years is paint, because nowadays, cars and bumpers on cars, scrap yards are painted, and in different colors. So what you have in your hands is specifically some kind of blue and at first glance, the bumper has seen better days. This specifically is a first-generation phobia in blue, and that paint needs to be removed, because obviously in the process of making the granules and then the parts, it would create problems, both in terms of, for example, visual inconsistencies, and also of the technology of injection molding, because it's a hard, disparate particle that should not be in the polymer. So this was a big challenge, and at first it was a bit of a problem. Well, not a bit. It was a problem, because we can see it here. It looked like some of it has been removed, but it was left in there. Yeah, right. The coarse grids still has a residue of the paint from the various bumpers. Exactly. The separation here is done mechanically, so it's, we can say, environmentally friendly. It doesn't require any chemical process where there's some sort of separation. It's really mechanical. In the crushing and rubbing of that material against each other, the paint flakes and breaks off. Then, when that material is separated in the baths or in the liquids, that paint is washed away, and what's left is a clean product. Nowadays, that company can boast this great know-how, because it can make the granules or rather that grit that looks like this, and you can say that it's almost without any paint. Yeah, the grid here is more or less almost compact black, except for some slight variations in shade. Yeah, so what's left there is no longer a problem, because in making the granules, the manufacturer can handle it, so this grit is the end product that is provided by the recycling company, and it is then sent to the granulate manufacturer. They take that grit and transform it into granules. The important piece of information here is that we're talking about 100% recycled material, that is to say the bumpers were crushed into that grit, which is 100% recycled, and only that was used to transform it into granulates. Nothing more was added. The granules were then used to make the bumpers that we can see here on this car. No modification of the parameters, no modification of the process, the bumper was made, and it looks very good. It was possible to paint it, and the paint works as it should. At the moment, this material looks like a very promising way for future products, where it could be applied. I'll just add some description for those who don't follow us on YouTube. The granulate actually consists of some really regular-shaped little grains, but if I understand it correctly, you said that the reason you can actually collect the bumpers of different brands is because of the uniform material that is used, but then that's also a big advantage in the recycling, because the material is relatively homogeneous. When you crush it and remove the paint, it's a mono material, and actually thanks to that, the recycled product should have the same chemical properties as the virgin material. We could say that, but it's not necessarily all that easy. Yes, we're still talking about polypropylene, but here we shouldn't forget that it's filled with mineral filler for stiffness and dimensional stability, and here the values vary from one manufacturer to another. Some use 10, some use 20, but it's not a problem. It can be resolved during the production of the granules by precisely determining the amount of mineral filler that was used, and then we can work with it. So yeah, we're talking about polypropylene, and we can say that the matrix is the same, and therefore we can work easily with that. So, the demonstrator already has the recycled bumpers. How close are you to using it on cars that are being produced? At the moment, we have it here on this car as a sample development material, a development part. Of course, all sorts of tests are being conducted on it. Material tests have been conducted with positive results, including mechanical tests, properties, paintedhesion, as well as basic tests on parts, and these have also been positive. We haven't done the driving tests and other tests on the complete vehicle yet, but at the moment, the material seems to be very good. Perhaps it may need some more additive processing, but with some work, it should come to a successful conclusion so that we can use it. So we could say that it's promising, right? Definitely. I think the word promising is very appropriate here. We can say that. [Music] We have now literally moved into the demonstrator for those who are not following us on video. It's actually an Octavia combi, which is completely missing the right side, the front and rear doors on the right are missing, so we can see the interior. And Mr. Copac is somewhat hidden where the front seats would be, which are also missing. But thanks to that, we can see the individual material as well. So is there also some recycled material? When we look at the interior, in fact, the vast majority of the materials that you can see on the demonstrator are made from sustainable materials, be it recycled materials or materials that contain some natural component. Let's start with what is most visible. These are the orange parts of the decorative strips on the dashboard and door panels, which are made from a completely new material that we've just developed together with the supplier and the technical University of Liberetz. It's a mixture of classic ABS material with a proportion of sugar beet slices. Sugar beet slice is a specific material. I would describe it as a byproduct or waste product that is made during the production of sugar and alcohol. We have a huge advantage here in that the largest sugar factory in the country is located in Doberovice near Mladar Bollislav. It has a large production plant here and they produce huge quantities of this byproduct. We can just use it, mix it into the plastic material and we get a visually original and appealing material that resembles a piece of wood or some kind of natural material. In fact, we can see these small black particles in the plastic itself, which are randomly distributed, so it looks really unusual and innovative and it allows us to reduce the consumption of the non-renewable resource. We use less plastic and instead mix in this waste product that otherwise has no use. The strip you mentioned is kind of orange and there are other orange accents in the interior as well. Is the color intentionally so bold or is it because you use beetroot? No, the color is intentionally bold to make it appealing. It's like a design choice. Otherwise the beetroot itself doesn't have this color. We can actually produce this material in any color. In this particular case we have orange but for other uses we've had different shades of gray. And what you have in your hand, you have a glass with some granules, that's actually the material from which this strip is made, is that the combination of the plastic and beetroot. Yes, here you can see the granules that we get from the supplier. It's a mixture of plastic and beetroot and this granule then goes to another company that produces the specific part. They process this material and produce such beautiful parts. The advantage is that as you said it reduces the consumption of primary materials and the additional material is actually locally sourced. What about the possible further processing? Have you considered whether such a strip made from this composite material can be recycled and used further? Absolutely. It's one of the topics we're looking into because these materials, as I mentioned earlier, are the first of their kind, meaning they're partially based on natural resources, so it's relatively new. Nobody has a lot of experience with such materials, so we don't have any long-term experience with them. However, we've already done various tests and multiple processing including recycling. What we see is that each recycling loop slightly deteriorates the mechanical properties. So to your question, I would say that it can be recycled, yes, but with a certain loss of mechanical properties. This means that as a second life for these strips, we can imagine applications that aren't as technically demanding and don't have such strict requirements as in automotive, but it is imaginable for some building purposes, for some underlays, for some boxes, and so on. Then, yes, it can certainly be used. What about the bio-editors to such materials? The availability of these resources is often discussed and also their sustainability, their long-term sustainability. Are there enough of these, as you said, sugar beads slices? Is there enough of this material in general to make it work in production so that you don't have to worry that to put it simply? There won't be a good crop of beads to have enough of the bio-element. In this particular case, the car where we've used the material for decorative strips, the annual demand for this material is about one tonne for such a use case. And the consumption of the source material, this waste product from the sugar factory, is more than 100,000 tons per year. Of course, they can use the material in other ways, but in fact, these sources really very large, and we're certainly able to secure the entire production for at least the decorative strips needs. Sure, but the ratio is such that in the case of some, let's say, cereal use the proportion of what you need and what they actually produce and what is left over from their production is sufficient. But there we could talk about completely different numbers, because currently we're still in the phase of testing and developing, and there is still a higher proportion of the basic plastic than the natural element. Another example of how sustainable materials are used in this very car interior are these white parts, from which the interior linings of the columns or door panel supports are made. In this case, the material used is polypropylene, which is mixed with a portion of natural material. However, it's not sugar beet, but Chinese silver grass or miscumthus. This plant is similar to bamboo, and using it helps partially reduce the amount of plastic. Moreover, it grows almost everywhere in Europe, and it gives the material a nice visual effect. Yet another example is the steering wheel and the leather on it, which isn't made from real leather, but from vegan leather, also known as artificial leather. We want to try to offer customers an alternative to real leather, which is this artificial one. In this specific case, the material is already recycled, and the outer visible part is not recycled, but the sandwich is. Then we have upholstery materials for the dashboard, door panels, and seats. These are made from a larger proportion of recycled PET bottles, and a blend of sheep's wool. We already have this material on the enyac model seats. The last example I would mention is the ceiling panel. Here we used PET material again, made from recycled PET bottles. The main benefit in this case is that we used recycled polyester instead of polyurethane foam, which makes the surface soft to the touch. Unfortunately, polyurethane foam is the worst material in terms of the chemical composition and CO2 footprint. So we used recycled polyester recycled PET bottles, which are woven together in a specific 3-day structure. Essentially, we used one recycled material instead of two materials that can't be separated and recycled. I would also like to talk about the limitations of these alternative materials. Because I can imagine that, for example, with bumpers, it won't work the same way as with collecting 100 old bumpers from a junkyard and using them to manufacture 100 new bumpers. At the very least, you will probably have to figure out how to work with the ratio of the recycled and virgin material. I know, this is the most important material. Yes, that's right. Of course, these materials have their limits. When we look at bumpers and recycling, the so-called material mechanical recycling, there are limitations in the sense that there is a certain degradation of properties that occurs during the manufacturing and repeated recycling of the material and therefore this cycle cannot be repeated infinitely. However, it is possible to create a so-called closed loop system where the recycled material from old bumpers is mixed in some proportion with new material to produce new bumpers. Now, we're discussing the production of bumpers and the entire project as we presented it was entirely about bumpers and the results so far have been positive. The question is what it would look like when these bumpers return to the junkyard and are collected. There, it could look a little different. Nevertheless, this topic is very important and needs to be addressed. Suppliers and manufacturers of these materials are also working on various new technologies and must have new options for the future, such as chemical recycling, which could enable us to obtain virgin quality material, thus providing material of consistent virgin quality. Of course, it would not work 100%, but it would work significantly better and the mechanical properties would remain the same. From this perspective, we can say that there may also be limits on resources. For example, in the case of bumpers, we need to consider whether we really have enough old bumpers to satisfy our production needs. Yes, we do, but we must be able to collect them, which may not be so simple, so we must get them from the scrapyards to where we need them and this requires logistics and money, which are factors that need to be addressed for the system to work. And of course, the total costs can sometimes also be limiting, which can vary depending on the material and the use case. You have mentioned several times that you cooperate with various partners and so on, specifically, for example, most car manufacturers or probably all car manufacturers purchase their bumper from some subcontractor. That means that your development, I assume, must cooperate closely with these partners, so that to put it simply, you don't come up with something and they tell you they won't do it, that they can't do it. Yes, that's correct. Of course, for these materials, if we wanted to have them in series production, we would need a large reputable supplier who is capable of providing this quantity and maintaining consistent quality, maybe to explain generally how these projects come about. Sometimes we start the process even with a technical university. We have many projects where we come up with ideas. They are tested to see if they are realistic or not. And then of course, if we want to continue and bring that material to a state where it would be used for series production, then we definitely have to approach these large suppliers and collaborate with them and they actually have to participate in that development and have those competencies. So yes, certainly we work with these large suppliers. We have frequent technical meetings with them and we discuss these possibilities. Thank you very much for the interview. Yes, thanks for having us. Thanks for listening to this episode. If you are interested in the bespoke demonstrator, check out the Škoda Auto YouTube channel. You can also listen to our previous episodes on simplyklverpodcast.com or on your favorite podcast platform. Take care and if you happen to be driving, drive safely.