Recapping ‘Survivor 50’ Episode 9! | The Pod Has Spoken

this episode is brought to you by the home depot black friday is happening now at the home depot and they've got just a tree for your style space and budget make the holidays merry and bright with artificial trees starting at 49 then make it your own with ornaments and trimmings for every holiday style find your perfect tree at the number one christmas tree retailer and get low prices guaranteed on all your festive favorites at the home depot exclusions apply visit homedepot.com slash price match for details for decades a shadowy organization called the lemonati has kept lemon on top and lime in the shadows look around lemon forward sodas even lemon forward songs we ran the tracks slowed them down reversed them and squeezed out the truth that's lemon propaganda right there but now seven up is fighting back with their new lime lemon soda join the seven uprising flip the sip welcome back to the pod has spoken uh you know we're still reeling from rick's fake idol last week and trying to wrap our heads around it as are the contestants on this episode of survivor episode nine um we have our faithful co-hosts here riley mcatee and ashley smith also our producer and since this season is in the hands of the fans we ourselves brought on a fan of the show uh also head of content at the ringer host of the big picture and just launched a new newsletter sean fantasy sean how you doing i'm doing great i feel honored to be in in tyson's presence thank you tyson for this riley i've known since he was like 19 years old so it's not as exciting to be with riley but and ashley a pleasure as well um i'm a i'm a huge survivor dork so i'm happy to be here with you guys okay well this episode of our podcast will also be titled in the hand of a fan which i think that this episode of survivor should have been called since jimmy fallon had so much to do with it are you liking these celebrity twists sean as a fan of the show because for me i have my i have my opinions but i obviously have a different perspective this was the first episode where i felt maybe the thumb was pushing down a little too hard on the scale that's what i'll say i i enjoy the creativity i enjoy learning that extremely famous people are as into the show as we all are i think jimmy fallon's experience and how it relates to who was eliminated kind of bummed me out a little bit but i'm curious what everybody else thinks so do you prefer that maybe we just watch jimmy fallon spearfish for a couple hours yeah um i i i don't want to watch that i gotta be honest i mean you said this was the first one that you really didn't didn't love so i i just thought you know and we get the teaser for mr beast coming on bringing a briefcase uh with uh something or other um so you have that to look forward to so okay uh what about the billy eilish uh boomerang idol you into that clever idea i have i don't think we've really seen its impact quite thunder yet i think there's been a lot of idle talk very little idle play thus far this season um i'm hoping for some more idle play in the future i do think because you have so many sophisticated strategists in this season there's a lot of discussion of what could happen and not a lot of happening happening and so i'm i'm i'd like to see the execution of some of these things so it felt like where there had been so much discussion about what it would mean to get a boomerang idol and what what would what it would mean for it to boomerang back to someone today's episode felt like the first time this whole season where there was like dramatic impact based on these celebrity inclusions in the show and so it felt a little bit like whiplash where there'd been a lot of kind of speculative action around what could happen and then all of a sudden it was just sort of like well this happened to christian and then he's out which feels unusual for this show with a couple of these celebrity twists too i i'm not like fully opposed to them either but i don't know why because the strategists on this season are so good and experienced these twists are like for whatever reason designed to not take advantage of that and instead put them in a box like with christian it's like okay if he has to vote for himself a tribal i don't know why he has to announce that to the whole tribe as opposed to giving him the uh chance to like go back and lie about it and say he got something he didn't and try to move the vote somewhere else he was just kind of a sitting duck because he was forced to read that and same with the billy eilish idol it's like they can't transfer it to somebody else and they can't play it on somebody else so and everyone knows that right and everyone knows and so you have some of the these great strategists and they're just they're just sitting here with this idol they can't actually use creatively um that's where some of these are it's like okay i'm actually kind of into the boomerang idol but i'm not into this idea that it's like wait wait wait no longer do billy eilish boomerang i'm sorry by law we have to include william i lash from uh linkedin his uh his idea uh riley to that note on the uh sean you okay over there no i'm just uh who will pop up next you know will it be like a member of trump's cabinet like who else could participate here anybody's yes they might they might they some of them have free time now i uh patel yeah i think he could show up finally we uh i wanted to talk about christian having to read the note he should have read the note for not that it would have made a difference because the note was but what if the note had been actually like super positive and he didn't know so he came back he's like i lost i have to read this in front of you i lost everything he should have read it first and then done some explaining because maybe it didn't tell the full story it did end up telling the full story it wouldn't have mattered but it could have been a blunder had he opened it and it been like you get to spend the day with jimmy fallon on a yacht watching him spearfish you can't you can't also spearfish and you don't get to eat any of it but you get to watch it and you get to have a front row seat to his confessionals about spearfishing like that could be interested in jimmy fallon's spearfishing adventures tyson like is this something that you want like are you just trying to spirit this into the world i think uh i do think yes i think if you're gonna have the country singer do the spearfishing then every celebrity should have to do the spearfishing let's watch like even if that's not their thing like you don't enjoy spearfishing well too bad that's what we decided for the celebrities this season um but uh yeah let's get into rick's fake idol because we ended last episode with that last week and now the first half of this episode was everyone trying to pivot around this idol wrap their heads around it um do you like this play by rick or is it too big it will like what do you think are the repercussions because we didn't fully see them this week um but i do believe that he might have gone a little too hard with it well that was sort of what was communicated in the episode right that everyone on the island felt well this was a bridge too far and this is great for my game because devins has put a big red arrow directly over his head and this will be an easy way to mark him out of the game and then as is so often the case something else happens and everyone gets distracted and then all of a sudden devins lives another day maybe another day to find an idol because obviously he is a finder of idols historically and so i don't know i felt like maybe the edit wrong-footed us a little bit too with how offended everyone was by devins play i loved the play i thought when he and christian cooked it up however many episodes ago it was inspired i think this season needs some of that energy i think there's a little bit too much either brawn or brain and there's not really enough hasn't been quite enough mischief and so i love what he's bringing to the show this season so far um and i think it probably will ultimately bite him i don't see a raft of people voting for him in final tribal i could be wrong about that but you know within 20 minutes on this episode i think it's going to be a little bit more of a episode nobody really was going to vote out rick after we saw what was going to transpire with christian and so yeah he'll he'll be okay and now even just based on what we saw in the previews for next episode is devins even in the firing line at this point i don't i don't even know so it's just a testimony i think to how quickly things can change and also a testimony just like what a fun tv character he is and has been when he's been on the show he just brings an energy and a kind of an oddness you know he's really he's really pleased with his persona in a way that i find entertaining yeah so i just i like watching him yeah i can relate to being pleased with uh oneself on television um if i were there and I watched Rick do this last week at tribal council, I was live. I feel like I would have to make him my target because it was so fucking cool. Like I would be like, nobody out cools this guy. He just has to go. Like I have to maintain my number one cool status. And so for me, I don't know if I could take the blinders off. I hope that I could, but I would be like, I can't let him shine. I can't let him shine. I've got to shine. I think, uh, for me, and I believe that with egos playing with returning players, there is some of that like, Oh, that was a really cool thing. We can't let him get further. Cause he'll do more cool things. And then all of a sudden my screen time's gone. Uh, so I think there is a little bit of that, but like you said, it did pivot also, uh, before we get to the immunity challenge and all the, the craziness, we still have like three leading fully in charge, fully in, fully in charge. Like she talks us through her alliances, every single person. How is she getting away with this? I don't know. I mean, you know, or I don't, she, she just seems cool, man. I don't, you know, it's like sometimes you just want to hang out with somebody. Yeah. Someone's just cool. They have a great energy. Yeah. Yeah. She seems warm. She seems likable. She's obviously very smart. She understands the game. She never oversteps. She never overplays. And, you know, I've been saying, with all my survivor dork friends every Friday night when we convene to talk about the show, like a winner's at it. I don't, you know, everybody would want her to win. Everybody likes her. It's like, there's, there's just something very positive. I'm, you know, I'm also fascinated by the way that Ozzy's being portrayed this season too, and everything that he's doing. And I think in these last two episodes, we've seen him get maybe just a little bit more point of view and credit for strategy, which is something he historically does not get credit for, or is even shown doing. And so those two figures are so, such hallowed characters in the history of the show who haven't won. And, and we like rooting for them and we like watching them and we just bring, I bring a lot to them and they bring a lot to the experience of watching the show. And so I think it's just as easy as with Seri, when you have someone in your life that you like spending time with, you never want to go against them. You never want to do anything bad to them. Now, Tyson, you're, you're, you were cutthroat, you know, you would, you would, you would kill even if you loved someone, you know, like, But here's the issue. What would you do if you were in this position? The issue is that I also understand Seri's power. So going to someone else, even if they're not in your alliance and being like, hey, are you with Seri? And then them being like, yes. And then me being like, she's also saying like, you have to find the person that is willing to recognize that you're in separate alliances and Seri's in both of those alliances. And then is willing to take a shot at Seri rather than tell Seri that you approached him. And that's where it gets really dangerous is, would this person rather stick with me after pointing this out? Or will they use that knowledge to lock Seri in with them and get rid of me? So I think that that is what's really scary is you understand she's likable enough that most people are going to give her information over you. And so that's where you have to really be careful and guarded. And I think a lot of people misstepped this episode in giving Seri information, especially targeting Ozzy specifically. Are they not visibly together? It feels like they are, but maybe that's just us as an audience because everybody goes to Seri to target Ozzy. I remember it being a secret, one of the secret alliances that was mentioned last year. So nobody knows how close Seri is to Ozzy and Rizzo. That seems to be like a really big secret. Yeah, I guess they're doing a very good job if they're coming to Seri with information against Ozzy and then they're able to then redirect and still keep that alliance secret. I'm very worried if that alliance becomes not a secret and becomes public info. It will have to at some point. If it's going to get all the way to the end, it's going to have to expose itself. Well, so then who is the person, you know, if you're not in that alliance, who is the person you target? Rizzo as an idol, Ozzy as an idol. They can't move those idols on anybody else, like we were just saying. So I'm very, very concerned for Seri. I'm like, I have become, I was a huge Seri fan even before this season. And now I've become like massively emotionally invested in her getting to the end and winning the game, like far more than is healthy. And I'm very scared. Oh, no. Oh, no. Well, you heard it here, Seri. I'm like, oh, no. Now she has to. For Riley's emotional well-being, Seri, you have to win season 50. Otherwise, Riley will be distraught, unconsolable. Aubrey locks in with Jonathan. Sean, what do you think of Aubrey this episode specifically? It seems like this is the first time she's really stepped out into being a strategist. Just driving the game for herself a little bit. What is this trajectory and is it good? I like her as a player. I wouldn't say I bought her line that she likes to play with all different kinds of players and that she wants to have a foursome of all different styles. Like, there's not really a lot in Aubrey's history that suggests that, you know? She meant whether you like Marvel or DC, you can, she'll work with you. Exactly. Yeah, you're more of like an ACC fan or an SEC fan. The idea of Aubrey and Jonathan speaking is fascinating to me, let alone trying to forge a meaningful alliance. I do think that there was a lot of talk about the middle in the last two episodes, about people operating from the middle and moving around the middle. The middle being the second largest group. Right. Being four people. And if, you know, based on last week's results too, like the middle should just be on top now, but then that, it's one of those things where I think we, at least me as a watcher, I tend to like accept the narrative that is delivered to me. And then the next episode kind of disrupts that narrative right away. And so I would have thought folks like Aubrey and Devins were in a much stronger position in the immediate aftermath of that vote. And then they were suddenly on the back foot and scrambling in a way in this episode. And so Aubrey has to kind of like play four votes ahead to try to find her way to the final five, the way that she was talking to Jonathan. And so, you know, it's maybe a little bit of a trick of the show and a little bit of a trick of the psychology with so many sophisticated players where there's just not never going to be a long term seven person alliance. Like it's just too hard to navigate that. And so that felt like the growth of that, like her wanting to have that conversation with Jonathan. Yeah. I think also that with Aubrey, as I'm watching her navigate season 50, it seems like to most people up until this point, she is expendable. Most people, don't seem like really locked in with her. Nobody's really willing to stick their neck out for her except for maybe Tiffany. And so I feel like this is like the first moment where we've seen her forge something that seems like it could last with Jonathan. It seems like he was all game for it. We saw them connect multiple times throughout this episode. And so I feel like this might be some type of building moment for Aubrey specifically. Let's talk about the Jonathan. Jonathan side of it all. We get a lot from him this episode. He has to pivot after losing two people. Do you like the direction of his game moving forward after kind of taking the blow last week? I can't say I feel like he's in a very strong position, but he has this unique situation where there are now three active meat shields in the game this far in. I couldn't remember the last time there were three hyper. There's some very strong challenge players, maybe even four if you include Stephanie. There's some very strong challenge players left in the game. And he has been identified as this Hulk, this unbeatable force. And he actually went out of the challenge in this episode much quicker than I expected. But he's never struck me as a player who could ever win the game. He seems like a nice guy. And he's obviously very talented at certain parts of the game. And he has, he's shown a little bit more of an aptitude for playing the game this season. And I thought the move he pulled on Dee was one of the very best moves of the whole season and kind of completely altered her trajectory. But he doesn't seem to be like, he's stuck in the snow globe. He's not shaking the snow globe. You know what I mean? He's going to have to make some dramatic changes if he wants to get much farther, it seems like. So you think he can't win because he can't get to the end or because if he gets to the end. He doesn't have enough notches on his belt, his words, to potentially win this thing. I think he's right to narrativize it the way that he has been narrativizing it. But I don't know if he's going to be able to see that through against superior players. I think there's just too many chess pieces on the board for him to go too much further. That being said, there's been this trend on the show, I felt like in the last five or six years, where people have been like kind of slowly moving through the game and making like one or two moves. And then all of a sudden, they find themselves in the final three, and then they win. And so, you know, it's not usually someone who looks like Jonathan who's been in that position. But But maybe this unusual blend of sheer power with, if he accumulates four notches instead of one or two, maybe that's a good story to tell. Whether or not he can advocate for himself in the best way possible is hard to say. But he's definitely played better than I expected him to, given the competition. But I also, watching this episode, never once was like, well, he's a real threat to win. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, do we think that, like, because when he's talking about the notches, he's saying, like, oh, Christian will be the next notch. And obviously, Christian goes home in this episode. But, like, does Jonathan get the credit for that? Like, are people going to see that as a notch in his belt? Or is this more like, is this like a kind of a wide consensus vote? And it's not like Jonathan masterminded it. Well, and the problem with him claiming it, if he gets to final tribal and others not agreeing with it, that's like one of the worst things you can do at final tribal council is claim moves that everyone does not agree with. So I think that that's also. That's also going to be tricky for him is to have the awareness to know what he can take credit for and can't. Was Christian targeting Ozzy to Suri his downfall? Would he have been okay had he just kind of been quieter? Or was he going no matter what and the Jimmy Fallon one in the urn just was the nail in the coffin? That's hard to say. I don't think the hands of fate were moving in his direction at all in the last few episodes. And I think several things have kind of gone against him recently in the way that the tribe has shaken out and the way that some votes have played out. It did feel like a. You know, I like Christian. I think like most survivor watchers, he represents an interesting part of the game. And, like, his brain is an interesting part of the game. And him having a downfall because he could not complete a puzzle is maybe notable. A little bit. It's Shakespearean. But it just didn't seem like he really had his arms around things throughout. And he was never able to really, like, leverage what should have been a more powerful series of alliances, you know, with folks like Mike, with folks like Angelina. He did have some kind of baked in advantages to the way that the tribes shook out that he never really capitalized on and maybe even undermined along the way. And there was a time when I thought he, Devons, and Aubrey could have been one of the more. I don't know if that's a good way to say it, but I don't know if that's a good way to say it, but I don't know if that's a good way to say it. I don't know. I mean. I think he made a few missteps. I think he was a little bit tempestuous at times whenever his name came up or he felt like he was not really in a position he wanted to be. And he just didn't finish the puzzle. I mean, it really comes down to that. I think if he finishes that puzzle, it's just a completely different episode. And maybe Devons is going home or maybe something else more dramatic happens. Interesting. So you think had he completed the puzzle, he would have. Who would he have put in the urn, do you think? Who would he have voted for? Was that what the rule? You had to write down the name on the. On the spot? Yeah, right there. Yeah. Yeah. That's really hard to say. I think it's tricky because he doesn't. Maybe Ozzy, but then he has to go back and be like, hey, I put Ozzy's name down in the urn already. Like, how is he convincing everyone else to go Ozzy? Or is he going back and lying about his advantage or being coy and just being like, you know, that's for me to know and you to find out. I think he's allowed a lot more freedom, obviously, if he wins because he doesn't have to read the. He doesn't have to read the note of doom. Yeah, that's. I mean, we'll talk to him tomorrow at exit and I'm sure all the other outlets will ask who he voted for or who he would have put in the urn. So we'll ask him other stuff that's cooler. Yeah. But. I mean, it's a two swing advantage, right? It's like it's two votes. It's his vote and it's an additional vote. So if he's just throwing two votes at Ozzy and then goes back and talks to Devin's and Aubrey and Emily, that's just. That's five votes for Ozzy. So that could have worked. You know, that was definitely in play. Yeah. Yeah. That makes me think it could have happened. Before the immunity challenge, Sean, do you see a man in the moon or a rabbit flipping pancakes? I'll go rabbit. I might not vote for Jonathan in the end if he gets there and I'm on the jury just based off this alone. I'm like, I never saw a rabbit flipping pancakes. Is this a storyline? Are we going to see this play out again next week? It's impossible to know. You know, I do. I'm looking it up. And like, I kind of. You see a rabbit flipping pancakes? I mean, like when somebody overlays a rabbit flipping pancakes over the moon. That's the new Samsung. And then you also squint at the same time. Then you're like, I kind of see it. Yeah. The new Samsung automatically overlays. That when you zoom in on the moon. So it's very cool. Um, yeah, if we don't get closure on this, where like everybody's one night at next, next week at the nighttime in the opening, everybody's looking at the moon being like, it is a rabbit flipping pancakes. I will be upset. I'm looking forward to that moment. Uh, the immunity challenge. We've finally had some survivor history happen. We had Jeff say historic multiple times throughout this, uh, challenge, which is interesting because he's the showrunner. So obviously anything he, he can create any new historic thing at any moment of any given time throughout filming of the show. Um, so do we put it all in the history books? I don't, I don't know. We do, Ashley. Every single time. Yes. Did you like this? Uh, I call this, I know, I know they, they probably had something else for it. Uh, Jimmy Fallon suggested that Jeff participate in a challenge or compete on survivor. This is the twist I call in the hand of a fan, which, uh, who knew a single fan could wield so much power on survivor. Um, do you like this little twist? Sean, do you like watching Jeff, uh, compete? I liked, I liked watching him be humbled. I think that, I thought that was appealing. Was there a part of him that thought he would win? You would probably know the answer to that better than me. Um. I would think not. I would think, I, I think he feels like he could probably have beat one of those four people, but I don't think he felt like he was going to beat all four. I've always thought Jeff is secretly quite ripped. So I was wondering if he was going to show out in any meaningful way. And then you remember, you know, he, he, as he noted, he was the oldest guy there and, uh, he's, he's no spring chicken anymore. So it's not surprising that it was a little bit more of a struggle, but I thought he performed it well. Like there are some challenges when I watch the show where I think like, I might be able to do that. And then there are other challenges where I'm like, I never want to have to be even near that. And given my lack of upper body strength, this is a challenge I would not want to do. I would not perform well in the challenge that we watched today. And so having Jeff have to do it was entertaining. Um, and I think he, I think he like handed up effectively. Like I appreciated the commentary. I appreciated Ozzy hitting him with, you got to dig deep, you know, like all of that stuff was, was fun. You know, it seems a little late in the game to be just bargaining straight up for rice. I thought that the reward should have been a little bit sexier around beating Jeff Probst in a challenge, but like, maybe that says more about how the, yes, sure. Another serenade from Zach Bryan, you know, what else could we, he's just been hanging out in the background spearfishing. He's got a whole stockpile. Zach Brown. Sorry, not Zach Bryan. I would have enjoyed Zach Bryan. Um, but yeah, I, I don't know. It just, just felt a little, even just hearing Suri and Emily kind of sniping over rice. I was like, this feels real survivor 1.0. This is, I don't, we don't usually hear these kinds of quarrels on the show anymore. So that, that was kind of interesting. Maybe that was a way to kind of harken back to the history of the show that it was for, for rice. The, uh, the flashback they did really made me miss actually that version of Jeff, the one who, who did all the trash talking. And, you know, at the end of this, he's like, well, I'll never, I'll never be talking trash again. Cause you know, he sees how hard it is now. And I'm like, that is the exact opposite of what I want. I want next season. That's right. You'd say until next season. Yeah, you're right. He immediately walked back. So, um, good. I hope that's true. Well, I also think that showing that flashback, maybe they're dipping their toe in the water of like, can let's watch the fans reactions to sassy Jeff, Jeff, and see if people's feelings get hurt or if they love it. And maybe I can go back to sassy Jeff a little bit. Um, I'm also very happy that I was not in that montage of Jeff yelling at how pathetic, I think he said pathetic multiple times to me. I was looking for you, Tyson. I legitimately was hoping we'd have a moment where we could chat. We could pull, pull out the history. I don't think I've ever had a truly devastating loss in a challenge that I was just getting completely annihilated. annihilated in. Um. only on token chains but they didn't even air it on tv because our bucket got hung up on like a dead stump and we couldn't move it any further and they ended up cutting that part of the challenge out but that's how we lost and jeff was just like they can't even move theirs we're like it's on a dead stump where there's nothing we can do we were trying to reel this box of weights in and it just stayed there the whole time and they just called it a thing of nature what act of god i don't know what they call whatever they called it um so it wouldn't have made good tv so they just cut it and made the challenge end at the stage before that so that was the only moment and i wouldn't have felt bad about that anyways like whatever um so but i am still grateful that i've never been yelled at as being pathetic by jeff probst you're you you were on the show 10 years ago sean and you had been going to therapy because jeff called you uh pathetic you were on the show 10 years ago sean and you had been going to therapy because jeff called you and you're finally getting over it like this is like the first month you've been okay without like talking to somebody about it and then this comes up yeah that would hurt you know i think we've all got our daddy issues i think jeff is daddy to some people right um yeah daddy jeff there's there's definitely something to that um i i do agree with what riley was saying though which is you know the show's been a lot nicer in the last seven or eight years and there's some there are a lot of great things about that and there's a real sense of like sincerity and it's a show that people have a 20 plus year history with but um it's a it's a weird nasty game about sleeping outside and pushing people down and trying to beat people in foot races and holding on to heavy stuff and lying to your friends like it's kind of a mean game i like that it's a mean game it's one of the things that attracted me to it in the first place and so the host i like him being mean don't encourage me you know like tell me i gotta step it up there's a drill sergeant quality that he used to have that obviously is a little bit gone and it's nice that they're not like you know they're not like you know they're not like you know they're not like at least acknowledged it with the way that they edited specifically that package like they didn't have to do that it could have elided that part of the history and they didn't right with the negotiation it didn't really seem like the stakes were that high like it was either risk anything it was like you don't risk losing rice but only because you chose the people wrong yeah race that you didn't have right at the beginning right um so what would you have done riley i thought it every player like like i was running through my brain this week because we knew this was the week where jeff was going to compete i was like what's going to be and i thought it was going to be like each player would have the option to be like if you outlast jeff you get an extra vote but if he outlasts you you lose your vote or something like that like some sort of like risk that players take and um so i thought it was gonna be dramatically more high stakes and was a little bit underwhelmed and it was it was just for rice even though it was still a good bit of fun i felt so you would have liked it if it was just for rice even though it was still a good bit of fun i felt so you would have liked eight people or something having extra votes this this episode and then like four people losing their votes yeah maybe i don't well they would have the option though they would have the option of whether they would want to risk it or not okay and i'm wondering too if they could also like make that decision in private too so then you don't know whether they lost their vote or whether they got an extra vote or whatever interesting um it might be that that's too imbalanced that just like massively rewards the the challenge beasts and that the maybe why they didn't do it i mean joe would be like taking that immediately he was so comfortable up there one hand and whatnot you just you knew he was um he was gonna win like as it was that showdown with ozzy you were just like okay like joe is not moving um so that that feels like that's the imbalance that i think doesn't work for that twist but my mind was like rattling through things like that there were more like a decision for the players to take risk that would have affected the game more and then i probably would have come on this podcast and been like i didn't like that i hated it so that's why they didn't do it so you would have come up with the idea and then come on the podcast and criticize the idea that you had for yeah exactly okay well i'm just you know i'm just brainstorming i'm spitballing here um sean i don't know is riley's idea better or worse than what we saw on tv it's much worse but you know that's podcasting for you you know like what are you gonna do you just gotta you gotta you gotta get in there and you gotta come up with some ideas and then you're like okay i'm gonna do it i'm gonna do it i'm gonna do it i'm gonna and if they're bad listeners at home are like that's so bad and they feel excited because you pitched a bad idea and then they get to feel better than you i know all about this i do this every week confidence in themselves pitching bad ideas yeah that's exactly right then they can go to their jobs pitch a bad idea you know yeah because there's no bad ideas with your you know spitball and riley i don't hate it if they get to make the decision in private and then go back to camp and lie about the decision they made the only issue is that and it's not going to matter because you still have to determine what's true and what's false and what's false and what's false and what's false is that anybody who lost to jeff is going to claim at camp that they didn't wager their vote and everyone that beat jeff is going to claim that they did wager their vote so then you still have to decipher it but it could play out to something hilarious happening um joe wins and he has to send someone on a journey why is joe too scared to choose someone from his opposition or someone in his alliance which i believe are himself or no i think you should try i think he could have picked himself because then i feel like that's the move he's immune already so it's like whatever yeah interesting interesting choose yourself maybe even come up right no no no maybe it did off camera maybe you can't but that's i don't hate that okay let's say you can't choose your sense if you couldn't because then it wouldn't the the like twist of like hey you vote for yourself would make no sense for somebody who's immune so i'm guessing that he was not allowed to pick himself okay so if that's the case could he have done something more strategic than make uh everyone play rock paper scissors i gotta give him credit for what seemed like very quickly coming up with a way to solve his indecision by create by suggesting the game and then the game just played out very quickly and then we just decided and it did ultimately i mean could it have worked out any better for him i mean that that turned out to be the maybe the best possible outcome for joe's game i think christian going on a journey wasn't the best outcome but christian losing on the journey right did end up being the best outcome right so given that turn of events i think he probably feels pretty good he doesn't that's the problem is he doesn't get to claim i mean he gets to stay in a in a more comfortable position and he still gets to feel like you know devins is on the chopping block and maybe ozzy's name is out there more aggressively now he's got some votes on the board so he probably feels pretty good if he had just chosen christian he'd be getting a lot of brownie points right now for that but i don't know i mean is that speak to the kind of integrity quote unquote that joe wants to play with you know this idea that he's not an underhanded player that he's a straight shooter that he doesn't want to have to be made to make these decisions i mean that's the kind of thing that probably in the long run makes it difficult for someone like that to win unless he's really really really well liked yeah i would agree yeah i agree i think i think that those indecisions when you are in front of a final uh jury is very bad like oh you couldn't even do that like and joe in this position can actually go either direction and claim it as his move he can choose someone that he's tight with in an alliance like okay what's an obvious alliance that joe is in is it pretty obvious he's with jonathan like is that like widely known if that's the case send jonathan i want my ally to have it if you don't want to take that risk and send an ally send an enemy and it's pretty clear that joe has some enemies you just as joe choose your most obvious enemy and when your enemy gets back to camp you can say this was my way of forging an alliance with you like there's ways to spin it and i think joe missed an opportunity that could have been the rock paper scissors like that's something i would do when rachel tells asked tells asked wants to go out to eat and then ask me where we're going to eat and i'm like uh rock paper scissors i mean i saw a cool way is to ask her to guess where we're going and then the first thing she guesses that's where you go that's you're like you got it you guessed it right that is the big brain move you're using like toddler playground mentality to choose restaurants and also that's what joe did to have yes i mean that's what i do with my daughter and her friends for who gets to like get the first scoop of ice cream you know that's right that's what those games are for so i think this is with jeff or with uh joe i think uh big missed opportunity to put a knot in between the two of his own on his belt and uh even if it doesn't work out i think it's worth an attempt and it would be viewed as a move um and yeah it's kind of weird from joe too who like on his his season got to the end and then you know didn't really have enough respect on the jury yeah because he he like was just you know buddied up with eva his whole season and that was like his game and it's like yeah dude like eventually you're gonna have to make some decisions and they may come back to bite you, but they also may win you the game. 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participation may vary promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing let's talk more about sari versus emily on the rice this was uh yeah i have a question on this so if you're if you're cooking five cups of rice how many cups of water do you use you use double yeah they were saying 18 cups she's maybe puffing it up to get like extra volume in it but it's should be i think the rule of thumb is wherever depth the rice is in the pot you put that much depth on top so it's a little more than double okay but i don't think it's i don't think it's five to eight i think it's like 11 cups of water to five cups of rice or something like that because some of the water does seep down into the rice before you cook it so if you have a knuckle depth of rice you do that much water on top but then there's also water sitting in the rice so i've always wanted to have like it's sort of like diagrams and 3d visuals around challenges on the show like espn sports science style demonstrations but it would actually be even better for actually how does one make rice on the island what are the dynamics what are the measurements you know get us get that camera inside the pot you know like really put us in the experience you know i heard that in two episodes there's a country singer who's gonna come on and he's gonna be marooned by himself explaining to the audience in depth that's gonna be good yeah brad episode yeah brad paisley is gonna be on brad paisley's rice corner yeah so and then he brings it all prepared to uh the camp uh for everybody to enjoy whose side are you on in the sri versus emily uh rice battle it seems like maybe emily should have just kept her mouth shut i don't even if she was right like maybe just chill not sure what you're getting here for yourself if you know exposing your disagreement with the most beloved person on the island who's connected to every other player when it's over a piddling thing such as free rice that everyone has just earned like maybe just we just have a sip of water you know this is where we still needed to have uh at least chrissy and maybe coach as well damn it we really missed uh some real cinema and i'm not even kidding coach weighing in on what to eat and how much to eat as well as chrissy would have just been uh chef's kiss i uh am of the belief that if you're with a bunch of starving people and there's two people arguing whether you should eat more or eat less eating more is going to win out every time there's not a time where everyone's like we should all eat less especially because somebody's going home that night somebody's going home the next day i if i'm on the island i'm like let's eat it all tonight just get it out of the way and then it doesn't matter now we're all starving again but at least we uh all got sick for one day because we ate over eight on rice like i nobody's choosing the let's eat less side also speaking of emily sean you're rick devins you have this amazing fake idol play and then you go to emily of all people the one person who has not been able to keep any information to herself and tell her that it was fake and that you're hilarious uh why uh did rick rick feel like that uh was the move did christian already tell him did he suspect that christian had told emily possibly has emily betrayed information on rick's behalf yet we know that she's done it to everyone else to christian but you know it's a many other players throughout the season for wait for reasons that are mystifying to me like her inability to keep a secret it feels like is it like a gameplay now like what's she doing it's not a gameplay i think it's just her i think it's her like using the information like this in the last season she played in though probably i yeah i do not recall her like spilling this many beans on her first season and she memorably had like a very tough start to her first season right and she was like very socially inept and didn't know how to build relationships with people and she seemed like kind of a kind of a grouch and then she completely turned her story around and played very well and build relationships this season she seems to be struggling less with building the relationships but the the idea like you're being a strong strategic player is valueless if you don't keep information like and so that's her that's her angle as a player so she's not leveraging that and then also regarding the rice there's something kind of beautifully poetic around advocating for not eating too much and saving it for more and by doing so you're putting a target on your back which means you'll leave the game sooner and you will not be able to benefit from eating that rice so like she's just a little all over the place this season wouldn't say it's been her finest showing and she's a player i really like i like watching her on the show too and you can see that a lot of strong players that see her as like a great number two for them like you've seen this throughout this season you know ozzy was very drawn to her at a certain point like a lot of players are sort of like she would be a good person to spend a lot of time strategizing with and no one would ever expect it but she's just got a few screws loose i think there's some really weird decision making i think she just can't help herself i think she panics not feeling like she has to do something she has a pulse on the entirety of the game and also doesn't want to get caught out with being betrayed she'd rather betray first even if she's uncertain of whether or not she should even betray i think that she's overplaying in that way that's that's kind of my read on it is she's like well sean and i are together but we share secrets and if he's telling those secrets to people i don't want him to tell those secrets to people before i tell those secrets to people so i'm just going to tell the secrets to people right now and then she ends up realizing that you didn't even have plans to divulge those secrets so then she asks forgiveness and i think that's i i think that's where she's struggling is she does not want to get got uh in so much that she's willing to spill the information immediately so i was surprised that she didn't tell everyone that rick's idol was fake this episode immediately after he told her it'll happen next episode probably when she she's going to hear something about maybe rick saying her name possibly and that she's going to totally panic and spill yeah i feel like it could be the right move too like if she does hear that like you know if it's devins's name out again but then there's that classic survivor thing which basically happened this episode where you're like oh this person has an idol instead of putting the votes on them will take out their ally to weaken them and hopefully they won't be able to win they play the idol and flush it you know she might be like i just have to tell everyone the idol is fake so it's actually going devins and not me i think it's going to come back to bite devins that he told emily that it was fake also jonathan is ben building up to target christian and uh in so much that christian offers jonathan his shot in the dark which i believe would then earn jonathan a notch on his belt except for the fact that because christian has to vote for himself can't even use his shot in the dark christian recognizes that i think that's where jonathan is not getting any credit for this christian move he's if he gets to final tribal council he's going to get there and he's going to be like i got christian's shot in the dark and the entire jury is going to be like it didn't matter he couldn't have even played it if he wanted to and they're going to credit Christian with actually giving up his shot in the dark more than they're gonna credit jonathan for taking it you know he also doesn't have really d on his belt either i feel like siri was more in charge of that vote um i'm not even sure if he had camilla he was kind of the deciding choice but not really at the same time so i feel like if he does get to tribal it'll be very it'll be very funny to see him kind of embarrassed and everyone be like no that wasn't you that was that was me yeah well that's what's going to happen is siri's going to ask him about d and he's going to say it was me and she'll be like no yeah and i think that is that happens a lot at tribal council is somebody takes credit and then someone on the jury is upset that they're taking credit for something they believe they should have taken credit for it's a whole song and dance up there sean uh is jonathan's not going to the final three guys come on is that happening come on i kind of i feel like it kind of could really he's repositioning with aubrey i don't think that it's i mean out of everybody in the game it could honestly be anybody like we don't know who's shown well we know who's showing up next week it's mr beast but who's showing up after that who's showing up after that what mr beast is in the final three you know yeah mr beast is in the final three that should put him in the game now that would be good oh that's it that's what's in his uh his suitcase it's his own and he just puts it on exactly yeah but does he have to switch places with a player and they immediately get eliminated from the game oh he'll offer the money he'll be like oh i will offer you two twenty thousand dollars for your spot yeah interesting what if he just challenged them what if they just had to go against each other in one of the challenges and if you lose to mr b first of all mr beast does not need the winnings from survivor i'm just gonna put that out there he's very well for himself okay at mr beast incorporated but i do think that that would in the spirit of like actually blowing up the game a little bit we're already we're doing boomerang idols you know we're getting we're having jimmy fallon directly eliminate christian for reasons that are still mystifying to me like let's just let's just fuck it let's just go crazy let's get mr beast in there if mr beast takes three spot i will immediately stop watching the show i'll never watch again it's over mr beast won't be watching no i literally you'll never see me again i'll be done listen riley based on whether or not cbs appreciates your commentary on the show they may pivot 180 and put mr beast in the game as long as you know i'm i'm against it in any scenario but if it comes at sari's expense it's over okay okay you heard it here survivor and cbs if you want riley to leave the show i'll be done to stop his commentary on your program, then that's the play. But it also will piss a lot of people off. I don't think that's going to happen. But what if Mr. Beast offers someone. Ashley, your final. How many people are left in the game now? 11, 12, something like that? 13? There's 10, right? There's 10 left. Okay. If Mr. Beast offers. How much would Mr. Beast have to offer you for you to exit with 10 people left in the game? And you feeling comfortable in your position? Gosh, you know what? That's the question. Because then you have Seri, who's extremely comfortable. So many alliances. Getting rid of so many people. Nobody's pointing fingers at her. She could win. At least that would be my thought with Seri. But then you have Emily, who has her issues. I don't even know if she knows she has her issues. I would say Mr. Beast can offer like 100k to 500k. And I think that would be a good. You can leave money. And I think people would totally take it. I would take it. I think a lot of people are bouncing for 50. Wow. I felt the exact opposite. I feel like a lot of these players, the game and the chance to win matters more than the money. I'm bouncing for 50. Mr. Beast is like. I know you're bouncing for 50, but I feel like a lot of these players are like. They have a chance to win and they know that the cameras are going to eat up if they're like, I won't take it even for a million or whatever. That's just like. Jeff's going to love that. It's also just an opportunity to be on TV longer. You know? It's $50,000 worth minus three episodes of screen time on one of the most popular television shows around. It's honestly not. Yeah. I think that's not a good deal, Tyson. Sean. You more than most people should know that a month down the road, nobody remembers. Yeah. You think that? I mean. What if you win? Tyson. What if you win? Right. But what if you're next out? I think I would immediately take the 50K and then as I'm leaving, I'd be like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Would you do 100K? Like I will have forgotten to negotiate and then after I've already accepted, I'll be like, wait, can we negotiate this now that I'm walking out? I feel like you had more in that briefcase than 50K. What's the. Can we do more? And they'd be like, too late for you, Tyson. I'd be like, well, them's the breaks. Easy come, easy go. Because listen, the breakdown for money is a million dollars to first. Second place gets usually around 100K, but because it's a bigger, it's a bigger cast, I'm thinking they're getting less. I'm thinking second place is getting maybe 85K, 90K, maybe something around there. Third place is going to get 75 to 85. Fourth place is going to get more close to that 50K mark. Like fifth place is. Fifth or sixth place is probably 50K. So if that's the case, then you're thinking halfway. That's the average of the. Or that's the middle, not the average because the million dollar skews it all, but that's the middle. So you still have to get five more spots or four more spots before you even get to that 50K spot. So mathematically, 50K I feel like is the appropriate number. We spent a lot of time on something that's not even going to happen next episode, but it's fun to speculate. It's a great thought experiment though. But Tyson, let me ask you this. Yeah. Do you feel that there is more glory in winning an all-star season or heroes versus villains season than in your typical first time playing run-of-the-mill survivor season? I feel like from the fans' perspective, yes. From the audience, yes. I feel like personally, no. Because you get out there and you realize that people are still making the same mistakes and the same blunders and it's not necessarily a more elevated gameplay per se. It moves quicker in the beginning. Like things shape up faster because everyone knows that. But overall, I don't think that it's. it's harder to win something like that. I think it's the same. I think the level of difficulty is similar. So. But the glory from the fans is greater. It's very humble. Yeah. I think all of the players who have won all-star seasons are regarded as like particularly good winners. And I think that'll be the same after this season. Whoever wins, it will be like. It does feel like it's a little bit elevated for whatever reason. Yeah, I have a similar feeling about it. That's why. And maybe that's just because just being invited back is some sort of indicator of greatness. And so then there's just this assumption of greatness amongst all the people. And I'll just say since this is my first time chatting with you guys about this season, I think this is a great cast. I think they did a nice job. And I was a little dubious before it started. And wasn't totally. There were plenty of names on my list that I would have liked to have seen. But I really feel like they've cast well. And to your point earlier, Tyson, I have no idea who's going to win. It does seem like it could be any combination of people right now, which is just great for the final seven or eight weeks of the season. Yeah. I agree with you, Sean. We were similarly dubious when that cast was announced. There's a whole podcast where we went over it. And some of it was like, oh, this is. There were some weird choices here. And then it's been fun watching the season and being like, oh, now I understand why they made why they made that selection. You know, somebody like Rizzo really stands out to me here, where obviously we didn't know him at all from 49 when we heard about the cast because that season hadn't aired yet. And now I'm like, dude, I'm actually kind of loving him on 50 even more than we did on 49 too, where I actually, I liked him. I feel like he's polarizing. I actually like him. And then on 50, I'm like, oh, this guy is like, he's actually very good at Survivor and very fun to watch. My opinion when we saw the cast was similar, but I also do remember putting an asterisk on it saying the format of Survivor is going to create good TV regardless of who's there. Obviously, this is not the celebration of the eras that we wanted, but we have some wackadoos there. We have some big characters and that's enough. That's going to be enough to make the season celebrated and watchable. I still maintain that if we're doing a celebration of the eras, they did miss the mark a bit. But I knew that whatever cast they selected, there's returning players that people celebrate. We're going to have a great time. So, So, um, I just want to point out my genius again, uh, before we, before we, uh, talk about Emily, we get Christian going back to camp and we get Devon's and Christian being targets. So then Emily decides that she should herself make, uh, herself a target, uh, by going to and Tiffany and telling them to flip all the votes, uh, onto Ozzie. Why, why is she doing this to herself? Um, is she a bad player? I feel like I definitely never thought that. And you answer a question with a question. I don't, I, she doesn't scan as bad player, right? She's obviously sort of, she's cerebral. She's, she's emotional, but reflective. She, people seem to like her. You know, like she has made relationships despite being, you know, she's a relatively new contender in the last few years on the show. And yet she's done like somewhere between four and nine things this season. I'm like, what are you doing? Why did you do that? And that, this was one of them. This was one. You think it's under nine? It's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. I, it's hard to, I'm putting myself in Emily's shoes. I'm looking at Sari. I'm looking at Tiffany. I'm looking at Sari. Who were the people she initially went to, to target Ozzy? I don't feel like, I mean, obviously we have this God-like view watching the season and understanding that Sari and Ozzy are very tight, but I still feel like I would lump them together if I'm Emily. As old school, they've been around for a long time. They're both still in the game. How are they not working together in some capacity? Um, and I feel like, I don't know. I feel like that's a mission that you set someone else loose on. Like, don't do that yourself. Maybe go and be like, Hey, should we test the waters on if Sari and Tiffany are willing to vote out Ozzy? Why don't you go, you go ask, like do something else. I don't think that putting yourself out there, especially when you're not being targeted. Is this a moment where Sean, do you think that she's feeling like this is pivotable? This is a pivotal moment where. If someone from her Alliance goes home, she's, she's going to be targeted. My sense of it was that her thinking was that the best kind of blindsides are the, no one's even thinking about this blindsides that there's not a single, there's not been a single discussion of getting Ozzy out and you can see the kind of excitement with which she was pitching the idea and that she thought that everyone would sort of be like, I hadn't thought of that. What a wonderful concept. And in fact, and you know, I thought, I mean, the fact that they did pretty much say that to her face, I thought they sold it should have been danger. I thought she had a lot of these moments earlier in the season too, where like, especially with like Devon's, they would float up, they'd be like, what if we got out this person? And it's like, Oh, wouldn't that be crazy? And then she'd be like giggling about it. And it was like, okay, like that's fun. It's like sexy and entertaining. But is it actually a good idea? That's the part you need to kind of think about. Sometimes it's, we can just be straightforward here. And I feel like Emily just often wants to go for that. Like the blind side, nobody sees coming the big move, the fireworks. And, um, yeah, I, you know, it's not always going to work. Sean, if I come to you and I'm like, let's get rid of Ozzy. And you're like, brilliant. I never thought of that. We're doing it. Yep. You don't have to check in with me again. That's the law. I know that that is not the lock. That is that I have some damage control to do. And I misstepped and misfired completely. It seems like a sin to just go up to people and be like, Hey, Ozzy. Like, I thought that was like one of the biggest sins of survivors to come up to people and give names that aren't in the conversation. So I'm just, yeah, I'm a little confused on our gameplay. And I'm very concerned on the social aspect of Emily's entire gameplay. Because Tiff and Ceri were very obvious in the fact that they're like not a hundred percent down. And I don't know. She was like, yay. Okay. Bye. Like, no, do glad you're all doing what I said. Thank you. Tell everybody else. I'm good now. I did my part of this. It's like gas leak survivor. Right. You know, we're like, she is like, clearly no one else has thought of this and I've come up with it and this is the plan and we've nailed it. And then when she just like sit and eat rice for the next six hours. Like, what happened after that? Like was the, you know, I'm, I'm always, I, as a, as a fan of the show, I'm always fascinated by what is, um, what we're not shown in the, during the scramble, you know, what's not on camera feels so critical. Yeah. So, um, and this seemed like one more, like we just didn't see a lot. So much, some of it isn't critical. Yeah. Cause ultimately the vote here, it seems like there was a vote split between Christian and Devin's like very intentionally in case of whatever an idol player. And then it's Devins and Emily who vote Ozzy that are left out of it, but we don't ever actually see this large group having to come together and be like, okay, we're doing a six, three votes split and these votes go this way and these votes go the other way and whatever else, like that's all just left on the cutting room floor for us. Right. And there's a lot that doesn't matter. Like there is so much circulating. All the names were probably named or most of them. Um, and then it got kind of pinpointed on the two that really mattered that votes were going for. So there's so much swirling and so many thoughts and ideas and some of it does matter. Like we would have seen if we, if they wanted to show us, we would have seen Devins and Emily getting left out and believing that Ozzy was the target. Um, with that, let's go to tribal council. Normally we just gloss over these tribal councils. I feel like in general, they're pretty boring. Last week's was a, was a banger of tribal councils. Actually, I think that the tribal council made the episode with, uh, I think the, the twist that happened last week could have fallen on its face. I had Rick Devins not pulled that punch at tribal council. Um, but this week there's a few notable things. Uh, Christian. Was he truly that upset at the, uh, Fallon one in the urn? Yes. Sean, is that? Yes. Ashley, you think he, I, I feel like he was, but he was trying to be jovial and light about it still, but was truly annoyed at it. I feel like it's always hard for me to tell with Christian. Cause he's a robot in human skin. And I thought he had the right to be. I thought he was. And I also thought he had the right to be too. Like you vote for yourself. That's one of the. Ten commandments of survivor is you can not vote for yourself. Yeah. Yeah. I, this was a step as I, as I suggested early in our discussion, like I just didn't like this. I didn't get it. I thought it like dramatically altered the outcome of the rest of the game. I don't think there's a really strong chance that Christian would have been going home in this episode if this had not happened, if he had not had to read that. Well, you as a fan chose this, Sean. I think he's a fun player. You as a fan chose this. God damn you, Jimmy Fallon. I, why is Jimmy Fallon associated with this as an NBC representative? Mysterious to me. One of our favorite. This is sad corporate synergy. Yeah. Yeah. This is just, the whole thing is just weird. Don't really care about Jimmy Fallon in general. No shots to him. Just like, get this out of here. Like I wanted more Christian on this season. I just didn't like it. Didn't like it. Thought he was absolutely right to be peeved. And there, you know, there have been a lot of things like this over the years where there have just been kind of like gameplay. Play experiments. I'll be curious to see like what the fan thinks of the move in particular. But I think because Christian is just such good television, people are not going to be stoked about this one. Well, so then let's rewind a second here or a little bit. We talked about returning season winners being credited heavier than a regular season. Do all these twists where it seems like, you know, Christian probably wouldn't have gone had it not been this twist. And there was multiple instances like this. Is this going to be an asterisk on this season's winner's resume? What do you think, Riley? I think it will depend on who wins and what their game looks like and what kind of the narrative is that we can pull together. You know, I think about. So let's say that Jimmy Fallon wins. Well, then obviously it's. If Fallon defeats Mr. Beast, how do we feel about this season? Better than if Mr. Beast defeats. It's Fallon, I guess. Should Billie Eilish have a vote at final tribal? She should have to vote first. She gets to vote for herself. Yeah. That's why in there and start. We start the final. The year for Billie. Yeah. You know, but I think like when I think back to like winners of war, that was a very twist heavy season that Tyson, I know you voted for Natalie at the end. But I feel like if Natalie had won, it would have been like, this is kind of a joke because she was. First out and spent the whole season on edge of extinction. I think that's how the fans would have perceived it. That's how the first edge of extinction played out. Right. people perceive that winner as a joke like people think chris underwood is like the weakest winner in the show's history because he literally went home one yeah i mean i think people make that argument i would probably there's some other names in there but i would you know somebody who literally got voted out being a winner is you know there's only one person like that right but then tony wins that season so tony wins winners at war and we're like he had a few moments on that season that were just incredible and so we think incredibly highly of him as a winner for both that game and for his first win in kage on and i think that there's something similar with this season i mean if it's if there are like weird twists down the stretch and somebody kind of stumbles the final tribal council and wins like a close vote just because hey you got to vote for somebody or they're well liked or whatever then yeah we might not elevate that winner as much but if there's some big gameplay moves from that person so i don't know i'm sorry to give the answer of like it just depends on the person but i think it's just incredible and so we think incredibly highly of him as a winner for both that game and for his first win in kage on and i think that there's something depends which is not an answer but i do think it depends okay well thank you for not giving us an answer um we also we also get devins and tiffany both pretty much saying that every day is a reset on survivor you just have to make it to tomorrow because you never know with the twists and the turns sean has that always been the case with survivor like old school survivor or is it more so now because i do actually believe that like i think it's hard to convince yourself that you just got to get through to tomorrow and then like re-scramble or re-shuffle or reassess uh but i think if you can put yourself in that headspace it's very beneficial as a modern survivor contestant yeah i think for the first time these past five years the most important word in the slogan is outlast like outwit and outplay are less informative than outplay and outplay are less informative than outplay and outplay are less influential than they were in the past and in some ways that meant kind of like your strength the challenges i feel like strength and challenges has been dramatically decreased as a nobody cares as a positive you don't you don't win uh no people don't care you don't win a jury vote by winning challenges which i think is wrong um i actually have not liked that change a lot and i think a lot of the sort of like there's been this a rise in winners in my from my perspective in the last five years or so um and i think it's a lot of the sort of like there's been this a rise in wins in my perspective in the last five years or so um and i think it's a lot of the sort of like there's been this a rise in low-key players who are not great television winning because they're outlasting they're like maneuvering the game if not outwitting actively and it's not a brand of the show that i've really clicked with it has also dovetailed with this increasing common experience which also happened in this season of sort of like the runt tribe in the first five episodes of the season where you get these really weak you call it the run trying like bulldozed i like that we always call it disaster tribe but the runt tribe i like that yeah yeah so you know like what those two things happening concurrently has shifted the game for me in a way that i i've been just a little bit less positive about it even though i still think it's like the absolute like gold standard of this kind of tv show and i still love it and we'll watch it forever but the outlasting things just seems to be the most important thing you know it just seems to be like can you avoid the falling boulders of producing this tv show seems to be the hidden skill and i don't think christian was like necessarily on a well yeah i mean it's the skill in quotes right like i don't think christian was on a collision course with victory if this had not happened to him but this obviously pretty dramatically altered his ability to go forward in the game and i don't i will i mostly want this to be people playing against each other that's the thing that i like best about it when i'm watching it is a person makes a decision and that decision either benefits them to go forward in the game or they get caught for example the way that emily was effectively caught in this episode that's probably going to damage her ability to go forward in the game and then that is like really the exploration of human psychology that i think is underpinning what i think is so special about survivor i completely agree with you sean yeah this is kind of taking away from that aspect of the game in a lot of ways and like but it is a game show too like so i'm you know i don't want to i'm not like scolding the producers of the show for making a game show it's just for what i love about the show i feel like that has been altered somewhat yep and i feel like like to add on like i feel like they do have to do twists to keep the game fresh otherwise it gets stale but this is where i'm always like i want the twists to deliver some decision making to the players and like emily says this tribal council you know oh no one was holding a gun to christian's head he chose to go on the journey but he didn't know anything about what was happening like it would be more interesting to know what was going on and to me if it were explained when he gets there hey you know this is the risk for trying to do this puzzle and you can opt out but you'll have to go back and explain it to people or not i know that they're scared that too many people would opt out and they wouldn't have you know enough content for the television show but i just like this is why like i mean the immunity idol was a twist right originally the show didn't have an immunity idol they introduce it and it the reason it's so because it creates this decision point where it's like you have to choose after the votes have been cast but before they've been read whether you play it or not and who you play it on and it creates all these really really tense moments of player-led decision making and a lot of these other twists that we're getting now you know it's it's kind of a little bit of random chance and shit just happens i agree i mean it's always been like that like the to win survivor you need some but now it seems like it's heavily tipped on the luck part of the game and less so on outwit outlast outplay and is that keeping it fresh i don't know it does kind of give it gives a different genre of contestants more hope that they can win this game which maybe is the goal is it the goal to be like okay we've got all these new era modern gen z years like that some you know i have not had enough life experience or don't know how to rough it or can't do hard things or don't feel like they can do hard things but they can win survivor now uh if the jimmy fallon uh one in the urn hits it just the right time like then you could win like that's all it takes is uh the right country star to spearfear fish the right fish at the right moment and the million dollars is yours is there something i don't i don't love it no i think it's i think it's good to have a um pomp and circumstance around 50 you know and i think the inclusion of celebrities in general is not a bad idea and it does seem a little odd to have the inclusion of jimmy fallon and billy eilish and not see them where are they yeah yeah that seems to me so then i think that is that's creating a little bit of dissension amongst viewers or it's sort of like so they just like sent an email like what how did what happened oh we saw what happened with billy eilish uh we didn't we haven't even gotten one instagram post from her she was a fan so they messaged her and said here's some ideas and she said i like the boomerang one and then they handcrafted the note and sent her to her to approve and she approved it uh so you know and maybe it's james uh james fallon from linkedin it's not even the jimmy fallon we're thinking of like we don't know like is there another james fallon that has an audience that could vote on if jeff plays in the game or not that could easily be possible you know he's a pharmaceutical rep from nebraska and he was at a conference speaking and it put it to a vote so you never know that's the thing is that we don't know but again would we have wanted to see billy eilish spearfish for half an hour sure to me this is not just a flattery tyson the move here was to pull previous elite players and winners and have them come up with something yes because they understand the game better than anybody it lets you sink history into the show the way we saw in this episode with jeff's experience of you know trash talking players we get to see people more people that we love who maybe aren't in this cast but are a part of the history of the show and then we also get that like really nerdy like tyson really knows the game so if he's coming up with an advantage or a challenge or something that i can trust that this is something that he thinks would be cool and that just to me feels like a misstep and it feels like your most classic 101 like producer brain of like what if we just get a famous person to do it which is just very just it's not very very interesting but i think it's a really good thing but obviously this is a mainstream television show reaching millions of people and people love billy eilish and they hear that billy eilish isn't in the show and they feel good about it um and and maybe those people don't listen to every episode of this show you know and are not on the message boards and don't think about the show in the same way but i think because there's been so much effort made to talk about like the true blue fan going into 50 it feels like a little bit of um dissonance relative to what we were hoping for so a couple things do we have more viewers now watching because billy eilish boomerang idol are there is the billy eilish fandom tuning in and being like, I can't wait to see him say the Billie Eilish boomerang idol this episode. And then this episode, they didn't even say it one time. And now that audience is now shut off forever. Or Jimmy Fallon's audience, are they like chomping at the bit to see what he brings to the table? And then also in the same vein, is watching Cochran give Seri advice on how to play Survivor. Cochran giving Seri advice. I actually do want to see that. Yes, I'm in. Is that also like, I feel like if you're going to have Legends of the Game come back, you can't also have Legends of the Game be in the game. Maybe you can. Like I would run up and hug Seri and be like, this is so great to see you here. How's everything going? But maybe it, I don't know. That's, yeah. Do we want to see that, Sean? I think a video message would be fine. I don't have to go to Fiji. Yeah, I don't think you'd have to fly to Fiji. You know, I don't think we got to send, put Cochran on a plane. I think we can just. I think if it's Cochran, we have to put him on the plane. We have to get him sunburned. We have to make him uncomfortable. Yeah, we'll break his glasses. I think, I, no, I don't, I think it's more just like making the show, exploiting the show's history. It's got a cool history. Not very many TV shows have this depth of history. This long list of characters. It has entered a kind of like, young and the restless general hospital kind of lineage where there's just so few shows that are on for 20 years that have introduced us to so many people we like and we've thought about and we enjoyed watching them go through the stages of the game. And also, it's a game full of brains, you know? And so whenever there's an opportunity for that, you want to hear from the brains of the game, not from people. Like, I don't really, I have nothing against Zac Brown, but I just don't care about that guy. You know, like I'm watching Survivor. I'm not thinking about country music. Okay. For the Boomerang Idol, I mean, they could, that could have been like JT's Boomerang Idol. You know, you famously, Tyson, as you know, like gave an idol. Yeah. To someone on another tribe. And so it's like, there's the history right there. You can do the same twist and then lean into the history of the show. Right. I mean, Christian voting for himself, the earned, that could have been me. I essentially voted myself out of Heroes vs. Villains. Christian did it better. He did it. He one-upped me. I wasn't allowed to write my own name down and he was. So, yeah, that makes sense. Like there's so much history. You're right. So. Imagine you get like the Parvati double idol and it's like, here you go. You have two mini idols. The twist is they cannot be used on yourself. Yeah. And they have to be played at the same tribal council. We can do this like all day. I know they, they sort of like tinkered with this in Ghost Island a little, but like we can do it better for this season, you know, getting the actual legends involved and whatnot. Yeah. The only issue with, the legends is that if you go to somebody and you're like, here's what we want to do and you'd be like, I don't like that idea. Don't put my name on that. Maybe. I don't know. I think that they could, they could easily go back and forth. And anybody who doesn't want their name on it, they just go to the next person. Well, you just find someone on LinkedIn with the same name. Exactly. I forgot that loophole. Okay. Anything else from tribal? Council? Yeah. We have to mention coaches fit, man. Oh yeah. He specifically wanted us to check it out. Watching for his fit. I mean, he's posting them on TikTok too. He's doing twirls and stuff. And I'm like, this is maybe my favorite, uh, genre of TikTok is coaches fits. So I haven't checked out. Do you just TikTok? Not sure if I'm going to be doing that. Don't be the last one there, Sean. Do you have to bring like, like eight nice outfits to Fiji in case you are the first jury member? And you're like, man, I need a new fit. Every single tribal council. Yeah, you do. They do tell you to bring enough for jury just in case you're there. Um, but they also on the seasons I was on the jury, I think they also had some wardrobe to choose from. So if you didn't bring enough, they had a rack of clothing was ill fitting, but some people don't care about that stuff. So, you could choose from the rack of stuff. I think I might have coached that clearly was not off the rack, not coach. He's come dressed to a press and he has not changed his style since 2008. That is documented. Uh, it could go further back than that, but we don't have documentation of it. Let's get to Riley's reads. All right, let's run through our categories here. Uh, who did the most to advance their game? This episode, Jimmy Fallon, I don't know. I feel like Jimmy Fallon damaged his game in my eyes. I know Christian agrees. Look at Sean. Sean's thinking. I've never felt better about where Ozzy is in the history of the game. I don't know if he, I don't know if he did things, but he didn't, he didn't make any mistakes. He's, he's not making mistakes. And I feel like he has historically played himself out of the game by not realizing what was going on. And I'm not as worried about him not knowing what's going on right now. There was that moment. Earlier in the season where it looked like he was going to do exactly that when he was crashing out after that one tribal council. And then he's recovered. It's, it's been very impressive. Um, I like that pick. I also, I keep thinking about the Aubrey and Jonathan conversation. I think Aubrey realizing that, you know, things maybe aren't going in favor of the middle people, which she was lumped in with and making inroads with someone else who had just lost some allies. Could be, could be a powerful duo. It's another unsuspecting alliance. Like people are saying about Suri and Ozzie, Aubrey and Jonathan is very unsuspecting. I feel like Aubrey was the one that, uh, approached it first. So I'm going to give Aubrey credit for that, for, uh, making inroads with Jonathan when she could feel that she was maybe going to lose some numbers. Okay. I was going to say Aubrey as well. Um, this, her connecting with Jonathan actually helped her get on the right side. Of the vote. So I'm really happy for her. Cause she could have been in, in Rick and Emily's, you know, Ozzie vote, which, uh, is going to make it really awkward, uh, next episode for both of them. But yeah, I think with Aubrey going to go talk to Jonathan, it helped her and Tiffany's game and to see where the vote's going to be. And then it helped them sincerely be in the middle instead of wherever Devin's and Emily is right now. Um, I'm going to go with, I'm going to shout out Tiffany as well. Cause it was really only a few episodes ago where she was just getting blindsided and was kind of the only person on the other side of the middle. Um, and now she's like worked her way in with Suri. We see a little bit this episode and, um, is not having her name thrown out there and has kind of just recovered her place in the game very subtly though. Um, okay. Who damaged their game the most? Is this one? I think I've, yeah, I feel like this one. This one might be easy. Emily. Yeah. I think we, I think we, I don't think we have to say more about that. We already covered that a lot. Emily. Yeah, we nailed it. We covered it. Oh, you know what? I'm going to put Devin's name in there because he never named his idol. He, we don't know what celebrity is connected to his idol. Every single advantage is connected to a celebrity. He's kind of, should have been like, really a chapel roan, hidden idol, machine gun Kelly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's fake cause there's no, there's no celebrity attached to it. Wow, man. If somebody put that together, that'd be great. Um, okay. Let's do winter picks. Sean, do you have a winter pick? My, my heart says sorry. That's what's your head say? Me too. Um, my head says sorry. Okay. I, I'm still on Surrey. I've been on Surrey for a couple of weeks. Riley's been on Surrey for a long time. Yep. And Ashley, I'm staying with Tiffany. I like that a lot, Ashley. And I do think she's super smart and has also kind of danced between the raindrops a couple of times here. So, and she's a great communicator. Like a Surrey Tiff final tribal is kind of a fascinating showdown in terms of advocating for their games and the way that they play. That could be fat with, I guess, I guess Jonathan sitting next to them. I'm getting zero votes, you know, like that's, that seems like a positive. As he's claiming all the moves. Two nuclear bombs and one coffee baby. I think that's each takeaway of each move that he claims from him in real time. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, I don't hate that. Uh, and I was onto Tiffany, uh, for a while and as things were looking down for her, I jumped to Surrey cause Surrey's power just keeps building. Even this episode, it's like, she's like, I'm in alliance with everybody. My only concern for Surrey in this moment is are those factions going to come together and realize that Surrey has pledged allegiance to all of them. I, I feel I'm not ready to get hurt. Uh, but I feel like I will. Um, in as far as like, especially once I kind of put together that like, Oh, her two closest allies, both have idols that they can't actually give to her. I'm scared. Listen, I hope that she wins because she's our winner pick. but if she does, doesn't, you will at least get to meet her at the finale. That's true. She's been on this pod too, so I've gotten that, but the in-person effect will be incredible. Let's do who's going home next week. Devins. That's who I had. I don't think he's put himself in a good position here. I think it might just be. I think now that he didn't play the idol this week, it's like can that thing be real? And who do you tell? Loose Lips Emily. Ooh. Because I was going to say Emily, but her defense will be telling everyone that Devins' idol isn't real. Yeah. Yeah. I could save her for at least one more episode, I think. I think that's her last big secret. Yeah. I believe it will be between those two. If Devins gets wind of it. I mean, Devins can still threaten to play his idol. As long as Emily isn't the other target and Emily has no reason to weaponize that knowledge against Devins, then she'll be okay. Or he'll be okay. I think Devins can go one more round with the idol. He can be like, I didn't really feel like I needed to. I'm going to play it this time. He can do a Rizzo like what Rizzo did last season. But if Emily feels like there's some heat on her, then Devins is dead. I was going to say Emily. Okay. So we all think it's one of these two. Yeah. Which means we're wrong. Yeah. What else we got, Riley? No, that's it. That's it. Okay. Before we take off, I got a text message from a friend of the show, Brandon Donlon, who's been on. He was on Survivor. He said, Sean Fennessey. What? For a few minutes, he was on Survivor. Yeah. Some of the greatest falls in the history of Survivor 2. We love Brandon. I love Brandon. We do love Brandon. He's so funny. He's so funny about his appearance. So he said, Sean Fennessey is so baller. That's so fucking cool. He saw you announce on social media that you were going to be on the podcast. And my goal in life is to make people envious of what I've got going on. So if I can make one person envious in the day, my job is done. And Sean, you helped me achieve that. I am but your Jimmy Fallon guiding you, hopefully not to doom, Tyson. Feel free to use my name next time. Feel free to use my name to create idle ideas for future installments of Survivor. And feel free to have me back because I just love Survivor and I love what you guys are doing. And I appreciate the time and shout out to Brandon for giving a damn about where the hell I am. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to Brandon. You can follow Sean on all social medias, probably, I'm just assuming. And you can listen to him at The Big Picture and subscribe to his brand new newsletter. How do we do that, Sean? It's seanfennessey.substack.com. You can find it all there. And do you talk about Survivor there? Well, you know what? The answer is yes. That wasn't part of the. Well, I'll be promoting this conversation. To get our fandom there. Of course. Yes. And, you know, whether or not that's something I'll do every week, I don't really want to cut into what you guys have going on here. But, you know, maybe a quick note about what's going on with the show. Yeah. And feel free to send us your notes. And if we want to steal them as our own ideas and share them on the podcast, we'll do that all the time. Thank you all for tuning in. We will be talking to Christian tomorrow. Sean, again, thank you for your time, energy, and wisdom. Ashley, thank you for making us sound and look amazing, as well as your insights. And Riley, the wolf of Quiet Pines, not always so quiet. And we appreciate that. Thank you, Riley. Until tomorrow. See ya! Coca-Cola. For the big. For the small. The short. And the tall. Peacemakers. Risk takers. For the optimists. Pessimists. For long-distance love. For introverts. And extroverts. The thinkers. And the doers. For old friends. And new. Coca-Cola. For everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you. Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time. Price and participation may vary. 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