Recapping ‘Survivor 50’ Episode 7! | The Pod Has Spoken

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For more information, visit TramphyaRadio.com. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. Welcome back to The Pod Has Spoken. Very, very excited for two reasons. The episode was not a blood moon. Triple. Roll of the dice. Whammy. I would say season 50's hourglass. The season 50 hourglass was the blood moon of last week. Second reason I'm excited, now that we're past the blood moon, is that we have one of our good podcast friends on, always with great takes, hilarious, Jeopardy superstar, and Survivor 40. And I'm glad you're with us today, Jeopardy star. I'm glad you're with us today, Jeopardy star. I'm glad you're with us today. Austin and D a little. I mean, that's something we were kind of like, we were like boring, you know, maybe like summer camp, camp counselor type, you know, 46 would be like divorced household. I would say, you know, you know, crumbling, crumbling, you know, abuse, et cetera. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what our season, I don't know what the seasons would be. You know, they, they get squeezed together. But anyways, Tyson, I would say the showman's bromance because you had the bromance with Austin and then also the showman's with D and, and Austin. That's a great one. That's it. And I'm honored. You know, I'm, I'm honored to be one of those bromances. That's good. And then the boys night and such and such. But, but I, I thought you were right. This was a good episode. This is a good episode to be talking. It was an interesting one. Last week with the blood moon was pretty, pretty painful. I was like, you know, what is this spirit Halloween? Like, you know, there's everything's orange and they're like, you know, they're like, Jeff is like, it's the blood moon. You know, I was like, okay, well, you know, I'm not going to watch this, but, but, but this was a great episode. And so I'm happy to be here. Good. Yeah. Let's get into it. So we still get the trickle down effect of the blood moon. There's conversation around what happened as everyone gets back into camp and two notables right off the bat. Tiffany is absolutely pissed at Jonathan. Is she right to be this upset? Like, I don't, I don't know what they had fully talked about, but in a group of five going to tribal council, it's like somebody, I would just be happy. It's not me. Like, honestly, I come back from that group. I'm like, okay, now I can readjust. I whatever. Now I know Jonathan's not with me, but she is doing everything she can to not scream out in rage at Jonathan. Yeah, totally. Well, I think like one thing is, is that Tiffany really doesn't have that many like pieces on the board. You know, Tiffany has Camilla, Tiffany has Dee. Tiffany really doesn't have anybody else. So it's like a huge loss to lose Camilla. But then like the second thing was, you know, can we, can we curse? Is this a family friendly, you know, as much as you can. Excellent. Amazing. All right, good. You're good. But I was kind of like, well, what the fuck are you talking about, Tiffany? Because like you just betrayed Jonathan and you just, you just, well, Jonathan's number one. And he was like, you know, he was pretty nice about this Camilla thing. And so you're like, I'm shocked. Like they must really think Jonathan is a fuck. And more on like, like he's got to stop saying Mr. Jeff and tribal, you know, he's got to like, he needs to do some image repair because they clearly have low expectations of the guy. I thought it was kind of an over the top. So what image? Yeah. What image repair coaching would you give Jonathan then? Well, so don't say Mr. Jeff. No more Mr. Jeff. I mean, he just, I don't know. He's bought too far into like the lung head thing. Like, like at tribal, I was so struck by this. I remember the quote at tribal. He, he says to Jeff, you know, we drew a line in the sand, but, but a line in the sand lasts. I was like, that's the whole fucking point of a line in the sand. Like it, it goes away. Jonathan dude. Like, come on, man. Um, but, but, uh, I, I, I don't think Jonathan's a moron. I think he's actually playing pretty well. I think he's, he's making some moves. I like, I buy into the notion that like he's baiting D versus just like, you know, creating that narrative in the confessional. But, uh, but, but I think the fact Tiffany was so mad as a sign that like Jonathan is lumped together with Joe is like, you know, like the big dilutes, um, it's unfortunate. Yeah. Is there, is that bad for Jonathan? Kind of keep it, keep it under wraps a little bit. Mostly like most of her explosion was privately in a confessional. Obviously like it shouldn't exactly mend all the bridges in this episode with D going home, but you know, are you allowed to like feel your feelings privately? You can definitely feel your feelings. As long as you don't bring it out and, you know, blow up your game. Yeah. But people can also feel that. Oh yeah. Cause later who was the one that blew up publicly? It was D right. It wasn't Tiffany. But you can also, you can feel when somebody's really irked at you, like Jonathan can feel that. And now it's like up to him and also the people around him. Like is Tiffany justified in feeling these feelings, their perception only? Like, yeah, everyone's allowed to feel their feelings, but what is the tribe's perception of her feeling those feelings that also matters. It's like, Oh, if she gets this pissed about, this thing where she actually also was like betraying people, then when it's me and her, that that's a problem too. Now, like I can't have somebody be so upset at a mistake or a wrong move or when they get betrayed or, or lied to, like, you need someone who can be like good move. Like let's come back together, whether it's true or not. I do believe that, you know, a lot of body language, it's knowing your audience, knowing how, how people really feel. Like House of Villains, we talked a little bit before there's Paul from Big Brother and me, like we're pretending like we are working with each other, but both of us know in our hearts that we can not work with each other, but neither one of us is saying that to the other one, but both of us understand that. And I think that this is where Tiffany could be too emotional in this moment for the people who are either on the fence about which direction to go. Like it's just every little thing, every little action, every little feeling it counts towards something reading into something counts for somebody reading into something I would say, Drew. Totally. I mean, I mean, I completely agree. On the one hand, I feel like if Jonathan thought that he was good with Tiffany or, or at least that there was like some chance of like refounding that relationship, would he have torched D so hard so publicly? Like for me, like, you know, he probably sensed that things were kiboshed with Tiffany, you know, which is, which is a sign, which is a sign that like maybe that relationship, you know, or that it was obvious that she was pissed but, but I also think that this is really a season of like intuitors, you know, season 40 we have like all of the so many great, great strategists. And I think that actually if you look at the cast of season 50, we don't really have that many good strategists and in contract, I mean, you know, Suri is a great strategist, but Suri is also really, really a great intuitor and that's kind of her, that's why she's so good and similarly D great intuitor. I mean like we have some of the best, intuitional players to ever to ever play on the same beach and and i don't i don't think i would consider more than a handful of these guys to be really great strategists so um the the game is gonna be based on vibes more so than maybe like some other previous returning seasons if you ask if you ask me i feel like i like that take yeah i do too i think even sari's strategy is being intuitive i do think that she follows her intuition and has so many good reads like she immediately who did she she clocked stephanie as lying like embarrassing dude oh wow i just got rolled i played i played a backyard survivor at may martin and parv's house in la with sari there ethan was there sari was there i was there uh this was a year or two ago dude they should have aired this instead of 50 i mean this is this is like this is the real content where is my wait where is my invite it was in la dude you live uh you live a few hours away i could fly down okay we'll do it next time so sari and i went to exile island together in this game and we get locked in the guest house and we find an idol together that we share so i was like and if you get rid of the other person then you get the idol to yourself and sari's like i'm not telling anybody nothing nothing and then the groups got broken to two and we had to eliminate someone from the other side and conversation was about sari and i glanced over at sari as our group is talking and sari immediately comes over to me and is like what you doing tyson i know i i can tell i can tell that you guys are targeting and i was like dang dude so i was like i need to remember that for next time i was like i need to remember that for next time i was like i need to remember that for not to look at the person we're having a conversation about from the outside as soon as the conversation is happening. And it was a learning moment for me, but also I was like, she clocked it so quickly that I was like, this, that was scary to me. I was like, oh my gosh, I need to not cross Seri or be the catalyst. Let somebody else do that because Seri is going to read you. I feel like what she did, like one of the other things that was so masterful here is that I feel like often in Survivor, when we see one person catch another in a lie, it becomes immediately like confrontational. Right. And she's like laughing about it with Stephanie and Stephanie just spills the beans and they're like all good. Yeah. Yeah. It is funny. And I also, what if Stephanie had stuck to her guns instead? Like, no, I actually didn't. Right. I really didn't. Like, cause Seri's at this point, maybe she has an inkling, but she also is like fishing. Like maybe Steph sticks to her guns. Would that have then, would Seri have believed her then? No, I think Seri had more than an inkling. Okay. Well, we have so much to talk about this episode. I mean, it's, we're going to buckle up for a long one, but we'll try and be also respectful of Drew's time. Aubrey, gets to play her idol, Drew. Dude, what was she thinking? You know, Aubrey, I mean, Aubrey has got this like elder millennial, like unhappiness, you know, like the millennials, they hit a certain age, their, their parents' age, they sour. I mean, they're just not fun to be around. Aubrey is like, like a vacuum on this season. Uh, and like, for, I mean, the, the, the, the, the, I forgot to play it live. It was so contrived, you know, I was like, I'm going to play it live. I'm going to play it live. First of all, how could she ever possibly think anyone would believe that? And second of all, it's kind of like a patent move to like, say, you're going to play the idol and not play the idol. You know, like, I feel like it's been just be like, I felt safe. Yeah. I felt safe. So I kept it. Exactly. I mean, Malcolm did it. I Rizzo did it, which they haven't seen. I'm sure there are other people that are just not like jumping to mind who did it. It was such like an unnecessary lie. And when you lie unnecessarily, and when you double down, um, people really are not going to, you know, I mean, that's going to sour people against you. On an emotional level, because I mean, lying was a big theme this episode. Everyone lies. Yeah. And the expectations kind of for coach, except for coach. Yeah. Um, which I'm sure you can speak to, you know, Tyson is the, as the coach whisperer, but, but, uh, the expectation is kind of that, like everyone lies and it's just part of the game, but when the music stops, you're going to have to level with people. Uh, and when you don't take that opportunity, when, when somebody turns off the music and you don't level, it really is kind of like, it's almost seen as like, bad form or like, you know, like improper etiquette. Um, and, and so Aubrey not taking any, uh, any of those exits to level and say like, oh, I, I'm just doing the Malcolm thing, you know, or, or I don't know. I thought it was really bad. Literally all she had to do is say, I felt safe. I was going to play it. Then I felt safe and decided I'll just play it this time and do the Rizzo thing. Like, and also why the fuck didn't she keep the idol again? Like, why did she play it this time? Like she's already done. It if she would have owned up to it and then said, I'm going to play it this time because I can't afford to not play it this time. And then she probably felt totally safe. Again, this tribal council, she should have just rode with it one more time. So Tyson, I actually, I, I, I felt the exact same as you on this at first. And I, and I think that like 10 years ago, five years ago, that absolutely would have been the move, but I wonder, like, I'm a firm believer that survivors not play the same as it was 10 seasons ago. And actually the idol is an impediment especially because, I mean, obviously Christian is going to, you know, has incentive to vote her off, but also having a public advantage means that everyone can play around it really easily. And Aubrey has no allies. So nobody's going to cue her off really except for maybe Tiffany. And, and if she doesn't have that idol, suddenly she kind of floats back into the pack and she becomes one of the middle middle people for this impending confrontation rather than the, like a sore thumb. Speaker 2 : So I almost thought if like getting rid of the idol is like an opportunity to rebuild and like, this is a fresh start. Like I can reintegrate here, which is what, you know, on my season, this is what we told Bruce Austin. I said like, listen, with this idol, you've got too much power. You're like, you're like the, the opposing figurehead for our Alliance. And we're just going to keep coming after you. But as soon as you give up that power, it's like a fresh start and we'll be willing, we'd be willing to work with you. So I almost thought that maybe actually in a game with survivor, where like the social game really is everything where moves are based on vibes, where people are too disorganized and deceitful to like actually orchestrate long-term strategy that the idol doesn't really matter. And giving it up is like a way to kind of like reset and, and, and you know, buy yourself a few votes. Speaker 1 : I also, I agree with you, drew. And I also think that like doing the, Oh, I'm going to play the idol and then you don't play it. I'm constantly pulling the rug out from people, like just lying them over and over and it, it's like a cheesy move, you know, like eventually it doesn't actually gain garner you respect, but just feels like almost, I don't know, like kind of clownish in a way. This is how I felt about Rizzo last season. Like I think if he had made it all the way to the end, he would have found out that his like dangling the idol every week, obviously he was doing it very theatrically, but it would have been something that I don't actually would have given him a lot of respect versus like not having the idol having skin in the game, you know, it gives you the ability to make some moves that do garner you that respect. Speaker 2 : Well, let's think outside the box a little bit here. What if Aubrey had made a fake idol and turned that in? And then Jeff's like, this is not an idol. And then Aubrey looks around and is like, what? I don't even have a, Speaker 1 : It's a boomerang idol. She knows like it got sent to her by Christian and Jeff. Speaker 2 : And, and Devon's she thinks Devon's, but Speaker 1 : Yeah. So then she can be like, look at them and be like, who, who sent this? Then it's not like, I don't know, maybe there's a world where she could do something like that, but probably not actually now that you say that because production most probably was like, grab your bag and come to a confessional and then open your bag and find a thing. So you're right. I'm an idiot. Speaker 2 : Like they know it's a real, the other thing too is because it's a boomerang idol. Uh, Speaker 1 : She can't even transfer this to anyone else or play it on anyone else, which she kind of forgets because she says, oh, I'm playing this for myself, but she can only play this one for herself. And so she doesn't even have the ability to do like an interesting move where, you know, she saves an ally or protect somebody, you know, earn somebody's trust and loyalty because she, she literally can't. And to your point, drew the way that public advantages are easy to play around. This is the easiest advantage to play around. You just don't vote for her and she can't do anything. Speaker 2 : Yeah. Drew. Yes. If you're on that beach and Christian comes up to you, he's like, get a load of Aubrey. She said she forgot to play the idol. How upset with Aubrey are you on a scale of one to 10 in that moment? I mean, Christian was telling everyone play the idol and she didn't get a load of Aubrey. She said she was going to play her idol and then said she forgot. Like I didn't, that means nothing to me if I wasn't in that group of five or be close enough with Aubrey. She probably be an object of like ridicule. Like, like, Oh my God, like how stupid do you think we are? Like she's, you know, it's, it's kind of hilarious. Like I loved Jake. but, but Jake would like flail around and it was pretty funny, you know? And so we would all be like, get a load of this guy, you know, like, oh my gosh, you're looking at this thing you found in the tree trunk. That's like, you know, two, two sticks tied together by twine. Like, oh my God, you know, I'm not like mad at Jake, you know, but, um, yeah, no, it was, um, it was unusual. And also just in terms of like the hanging on to the, I don't think I had one more thought Riley, which, which is, you were talking about Rizzo being kind of clownish made me think of this, but, but recently, like the last few seasons, I haven't watched the last two seasons really very closely. Um, I didn't, I didn't care for 48, 49, but I've been thinking a lot about like, how actually what you say at tribal council is like a really important way to negotiate power hierarchies, like the position you have a tribal council and like what you say and how people respond to it. Um, I, I think that, and this will be relevant, but I think that people are, if you are higher in the, in the hierarchy, people are more willing to respect like your metaphors, for instance, or to build off what you say. And if you're lower in the hierarchy, people are more prone to disagree with you. So for instance, everyone was dunking on Joe because Joe's in the bottom of the hierarchy, even though his firehouse thing I thought was pretty fair, but the same type of way. So you can really manipulate your position in the hierarchy by advocating for yourself and arguing and defending your points and prosecuting them at tribal council. And so when you have like an advantage, that's very public and you're doing this like song and dance, it's at tribal over and over again, the intended effect is like, you know, Oh, I'm like a big mover. I'm like, uh, you know, I can do things. I, you know, you don't know what I'm going to do. I can be safe. I can be immune. But the very fact of like threatening it over and over again and not needing to play it, the very fact of it working out signals to people that you're not a threat signals to people that actually you're kind of irrelevant and you're just doing your own thing. And I think it can really be, it can really cost people status because they begin to write you off and say like, Oh, well they may have the idol, but it's not really consequential because we're moving on past it. I think this happened to Xander a little bit. Yeah. And so you only want to like play that card so many times before people are actually just like, well, let's just write them off. They're not really relevant. Right. And I do believe that is kind of what we understood from the cast of 49 about Rizzo. Had he made it to the end, most people did not feel that he was threatening enough to actually win the jury votes. And so every like Sophie, B kind of was like, no, like I'm going with Rizzo cause I will win in a final jury. And I think that that was the belief of most of the people whether it was just for that or other reasons. So yeah, I do agree with that. We, yeah. Can we do a little a memorial for the Billy Eilish boomerang idol? Cause it's over. It's, it's, it's kind of a bus this season because Aubrey playing hers can't boomerang back to Christian. Yep. And Genevieve's out. So Ozzie's idol and Rizzo's idol can't boomerang back to Genevieve. So that's it. We have just a normal idol now. Is it not even a normal idol or can they still only play it on themselves? Cause he can't play. Yeah. It's like, it's actually, we got like nerfed idols this season. So is that then going to be a problem for Sari down the road when the two people she's aligned with are the only two with the idols and people know that they can't be played on anybody. So to weaken that group, they're going to go for the people who don't have the idols. You target the one that they can't even play it on. This is, I, this is the thing with the, the Billy Eilish boomerang idol. And I, you don't have to say Billy Eilish boomerang every time on the podcast. I'm trying to give it the respect. I know that for on Survivor, if you were on Survivor, yes, they would. There's actually a very funny Tik TOK out there with a girl pretending. I want to be respectful to Billy. Yeah. It could be William I. This is my biggest, this is my biggest problem with it though. It's like for it's, it's, it stifles the game. Play though. I don't, I don't understand why they made it that you can't transfer it and you can't play it on anybody else because it's just like that. That's some of the biggest moves in Survivor history are people playing the idol on someone else. It's not even them and correctly reading that the votes were going in a different direction or whatever. And I, I have no idea why they were like, that's something we want to remove from the game. We want to make these idols super public and they can only be played on one person. Super rich. So what about this? What if the Billy Eilish idol had swung the other direction and said, wait, wait, okay. Who's making a face? Um, I just feel like they're kind of chasing the high of like 46 where like five people went out with the idol back to back to back. And so if you can play the idol on someone else, you know, there's more incentive to like get rid of it early. You have more opportunity to use it. Um, whereas what they're really looking for is somebody like betraying their extensive ally to get the idol back. Like, like the Billy idol is designed as like a booby trap, right? They're not, they're not interested in helping whoever gets the idol there. They, they want the kind of betrayal to like emphasize like, wow, high stakes, personal conflict. These guys didn't pre-aim, you know, they're betraying one another. Um, so that, that's kind of like my rationale for like strategically what, what, what the goal was. Um, but I'm sorry, Titans, what were you going to say? I was going to say, why not take the Billy Eilish idol one step further and say, okay, you have to gift it to someone, but you can't play it on yourself. You have to play it on someone else. That's great. And if you play it on someone else correctly, you get your own idol. Wow. Now it's getting played and there's fireworks at tribal council because you are trying to figure out exactly which way the votes are going. So you can play it for somebody and you're doing it immediately. So you're getting a wild tribal council right then and there, as soon as that idol goes to tribal council. So now that Aubrey has flushed her idol is a new, do you think you get a new idols out there? Like maybe not a Billy Eilish one. I would assume so. Like a John Cena. Yeah. Yeah. The John Cena, the John Cena super suplex. Yeah. Neil Patrick Harris. Isn't he like a survivor fan or something? Sia, where is Sia? Why is Sia not part of this? I just saw her on a different show. So did I on jury duty. Yeah. On jury duty. And I was like, Sia, wrong show, girl. What are you doing? She's over us. Yeah. We didn't do it. They didn't invite Carolyn back and she's done. You know, she's not, she's not going to watch anymore. Yeah. Wow. Well, we love you. We lost two good ones there. So let's talk about D versus Jonathan and coach. I love this. I would love to have woke up to this. Oh my God. You're sleeping there at camp drew and all of a sudden this is happening. How happy are you? Oh, I'm the peanut gallery, man. I don't, Emily was so funny with it. I mean, Tyson, I felt like I was, the group kind of got bigger and bigger. Like people were collecting to watch this. It was so good. It was delish. And, uh, I Tyson, I almost felt like envy for you. And I, I'm so, I felt so privileged to be talking to you for this because there was so many great coach moments in this episode. And like Rizzo was doing his best Tyson impression, like coaching the coach, you know? And I was like, wow, you know, was this what it was like? I should have been there. Like literally I have almost zero desire to ever go on survivor again, but watching coach spin out of control without me there to just like, try to chill him out or even just witness it. Like, I, I feel sad that I was just for this day. Like if they had any inkling that coach was going to spin out of control, Jeff should have called me and been like, we're getting out to Fiji just for a day for a reward. Are you good? Coach is there and he's probably going to be with you. I was like, hells yeah. Let me get out there and see what's happening. Uh, so this is maybe the first time. In five or six years where I have, uh, had even a small desire to be back on that island. And that's only because I would have loved to witness this firsthand. This is literally why you go on reality TV to watch moments like these. You don't have to be part of them. You don't want to be part of them, but you want to have a front row seat to all of the action. And you think that Jonathan really was 100%. Trying to ramp D up with, this was his whole idea from the get-go because sometimes as a returning player, especially you understand you can change the narrative once you go into a confessional, uh, an hour after everything happens. I sense the skepticism and I, I see it at Ashley. I see it in your face. Um, but, uh, I'm not, I'm not necessarily opposed to this, to this idea, honestly, because I think it made a lot of strategic sense to bait D. Uh, and I think that also, um, it was really just out of nowhere. Uh, like he re he really rose to the occasion, um, to do it. And he also did it on like friendly turf where like coach was there to back him up. So I bought that. And he threw it at coach. He pretty much like threw it at coach and D and then ducked a little bit. But then every time it would kind of slow down, he would fire again to keep it going. You know, and also there's this, the Jonathan is like mentored. By Boston, Rob or something like they're like their best buddies or what is the deal with this? Yeah. They live in the same town, but yeah. Okay. All right. So I'm just saying, it seems to me plausible, especially, you know, since it was very well executed and he kind of like stayed below the threshold and, and he obviously had talking points because he hit D on the same talking point at tribal when she started to get a little bit of traction, uh, and she was totally capable of responding to it either time. So I'm, I'm, I'm willing to give him strategic credit for it. for it, even if it wasn't like, you know, like mega minded, you know, he wasn't sitting up late at night like tony being like oh i'm gonna bait d and then i'm gonna etc etc yeah i i liked it i also coach played it okay here for a little bit i think he like kind of seemed hurt and was like oh d like and then he spiraled well then he goes back to the tribe and he's like if anyone plays where they're lying like they're not gonna win then whoever's has told a lie in this game cannot win this game who is the dragon slayer for coach because he's like i'm the dragon slayer now i'm back to the old dragon slayer but we're the new dragon slayer we're playing for the honor and we're lying like the dragon slayer should i'm like the dragon slayer is this like schizophrenic you know umbrella identity like anytime he wants to feel cool he's the dragon slayer you know whenever we're doing anything it's just very it's just very indefinite i and i i thought this was really kind of a meltdown moment for for for coach i mean i it was like uh you guys ever read like heart of darkness you know or see apocalypse now no okay yeah i was like i was like getting big like kurt's vibes you know he's like the the psycho commander stuck in the jungle losing his marbles um you know this is a good reference you should google it if you don't know it like i'm really onto something here um but but i also was thinking like wow coach is just not good at at survivor you know i kind of fell for the like the south pacific rebrand where you know he was insecure at first but then he was growing into himself and he really could be an effective leader and he's actually just not good at survivor um and so it'll be interesting to see how like if there are any competent players in this in this you know loyal five how they how they can kind of use him and manipulate him going forward yeah it's interesting i want to touch on so many things here from this conversation we get uh coach addresses buddy uh after you know they suck d in so he is raging mad and then emily not buying into it for even a second it's just like coach is the biggest liar here like what is he calls him a hypocrite does all of that and then coach all of a sudden goes into haiku mode i don't know if this was has he's so happy with himself with these haikus too he's like and he's so did you hear that one and nobody else cares one of them wasn't a haiku i'm probably multiple i'm a born tonight a haiku and i was like i was counting with him and i'm like is it four seven four one of those five eight five five seven five five seven five one of the first ones he did was like betray y'all all around that's six already wrong nobody tells the truth like coach what's that one about has been declared oh i got it guys yeah he tells the truth like coach is like that is vintage you know like yeah that's the kind of shit that like keeps me watching this show when like zach brown shows up you know like he's gonna sell the merch with that one i mean that was good he is selling nicknames you can get your own coach nickname now yeah maybe i'll pay for it you know after i after i talk so badly about him on this um but but yeah yeah okay so we're not done yet with this whole sequence here because after coach is celebrating this haiku that he said and looks around and not a single rise from anybody everybody's just like yeah then he's just talking to joe about galahad and joe cannot not look like a full psychopath every time he's caught with any conversation his eyes are wide and he's just like he's got crazy eyes crazy like listen i always say this i do feel like maybe it applies to girls more than girls i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know than guys but like you can see the soul in the eyes and if those eyes are big like that they're crazy you know what i mean like like yes joe's eyes would legitimately you know freak me out they're gonna like roll out of his me too he'd have to go the second he looks at me one time like that i'm like oh shit dude this dude has to go yeah no i know you know what it is i think it's because he was about to tell coach hey that's cool and he didn't think it was cool which is a you know what i think it is i think coach i think joe is putting extra effort into the honorable and integrity stuff because he had he did last season with with eva and now he can't not and so it's a full not a full facade but he's feeling trapped and pigeonholed in this character that he played last last season and he's got to do it again and so he's just like you think so how a little bit i feel like he gets like so much out of it and this is one thing that maybe has been frustrating for the season but it's like the contestants are are so bought into themselves like everyone is peacocking and performing and even even some like you know some golden calves even some of our like you know favorites are just over the top and joe is like one of those who is like obsessed with himself you know he wants to be in hollywood he wants to be like the righteous hero provider yes that's what i'm saying okay yeah i don't think he thinks that he's playing the character you know but i don't think he thinks that oh you're right you're right he wants to be this but it is it's taking some effort for him to be this yeah i know and he's really doing a good job too like i remember a couple episodes ago they had like spliced montages of like coach nicknaming joe and and colby yeah and colby was like whatever that sounds great coach and joe was like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh yeah oh my god thank you so much coach you know how much this means to me you know it was just like a real real night and day i was like okay okay man yeah yeah it really was fighters though you know they get a little hero complexes um yeah but we know the real heroes are people that go on reality tv absolutely they provide us absolutely um and podcast hosts yeah ozzy and rizzo back from exile it's too bad they missed so much like like the exile was a huge advantage as ozzy said but yes man you missed uh you missed a lot he was so happy he was gone though after that you did you missed a lot but also like exile yeah they didn't really get talked about because they got these tribes split down into little groups of three and they were so happy um coach continues to stick his foot in his mouth uh by pulling rizzo in as a replacement for colby yes what drew your rizzo is are you going with it like rizzo went with it but didn't really go with it is there any part of you that if you were in that moment would be like i will be colby's replacement i will be better than colby that's the alliance to be in coach's alliance as 100 the alliance to be and if i was out there i i believe that survivor right now is very form leg and it's really not that hard to play the right way right like it's a lot easier than it used to be and then there's certain kind of like axioms that you could follow and and that alliance for me that would be like the gold standard alliance i mean i'll bet money that that alliance goes deep uh and so if i was rizzo i'd be like whatever if like i'm in you know you guys are obviously not like the you know sharpest bulbs or whatever the expression is like i'll i'll ride with you but um i had something else to say there and i forgot it but i mean you're not you're not into it tyson i i would definitely say i'm in like but i think that you know if you're a replacement for somebody and you're in the four spot you can go for a little bit but you have to turn on that group you can't ride or die with that group like i'm not right or dying with that if you're i'm uh the replacement of whoever was number four and got voted out so i think yeah i don't know what i would have done in that moment but rizzo goes to sari immediately and does he does rizzo tell them about the coach thing i maybe he didn't i don't have that in my notes i don't think he told her i don't either he but he definitely did say he was going to go with the uh sari's wizard of oz yeah he probably did he because he tells him about so much else so he's the fourth horseman and he's also uh in sari's skeptical of coach too i mean he called he he's like this is like an embarrassment or whatever yeah yeah i can't wait to talk to to rizzo when we get him for exit press because how do you know he's gonna exit he's just still out there well no at any at any point i mean yeah you know at any point even if he wins or whatever you know we'll talk to him after the season or whatever but uh because he's such a huge fan obviously some of these players are fans but he's really like acting like one out there he's like oh my gosh i can't believe i'm on a beach with colby and you know whatever and i i want to hear like which of these contestants are measured up to his expectations as an experience to play with uh you know i think sari is like a dream for him to to play with sari i imagine coach like maybe being on the same island with coach is a dream but actually playing with coach feels like it might be a little underwhelming for him yeah or exactly what you're hoping to get from coach like yeah i'm i'm watching this meltdown happen coach clumsily dragging you into the four horse men alliance as the like fifth horseman you know is uh maybe yeah that is the dream i mean is this better than when coach which told Chrissy that she talks too much. No, that was bad. That was tough. But I did feel bad for Chrissy and Stephanie. Like, wow, no women in the Four Horsemen, you know? Like, we're going to bring in Rizzo, you know? If I'm Stephanie, like, Chrissy, I do get the sense they, like, are not crazy about, but, like, you know, she's here. But if I'm Stephanie, I'm like, damn, guys, like, what the, you know, we're going to bring in, like, this twerp, you know, the twerpiest of them all, Rizzo? Like, you know, are you kidding me? But I really think that, like, obviously you don't want to, like, go to the end and hope that, like, you know, if it's just, like, the five of you or whatever sitting at the end, they're going to choose you because obviously they're not. But there's so much value to, like, the stable core group in the early merge. Yeah. My philosophy of the game, you know, 51, they're flying out, like, imminently, if they haven't already, hypothetically. A couple days. Yeah, yeah, on Friday. And so I always liked, supposedly, and so I always liked, maybe we'll cut that, I always like to impart some wisdom on the leaving contestants, which is that, in my opinion, you should build as many allies as possible during the pre-merge and not really do anything. And then, in the early merge, you know, you should leverage these connections as the dust is settling. And you should just get with the most stable group possible. Because rather than, like, the uncertainty of, like, you know, these, like, shifting voting blocks and, like, all these smart people, like Christian and Devin's on the one side and Seri and, and whoever on the other side, and they're, like, you know, trying to play you off of each other, and anything could happen. Just choose the stable route at the beginning, you know? So if I see Coach and Jonathan and Joe, and their whole shtick is, like, we're going to do exactly what we say, like, okay, I'll take it, you know? Like, let's just, let's weed out some of the numbers in the biggest tribal council ever. So if I was Rizzo, I mean, this would be, like, music to my ears. Like, yeah, I'll be, like, the Colby replacement for a little bit, and, like, we'll get a little bit farther down the road. So, I don't know. I thought it was a good deal. Yeah. Okay. I like that. I think, yeah, I think Rizzo is in a good spot there. As that three-pack of Ozzy, Seri, and Rizzo is on the beach, Emily comes up to him. Spills some more beans. And just says some more secrets to other people. What was Emily's intent here? Was it to target D? Was it to try to get in with that group? What was the deal? Dude, honestly, I think that she, like, didn't realize that Rizzo didn't, like, know that everyone was talking about his idol. I think that, um, the other advantages have been so public that she was like, "Well, of course Rizzo knows that people are talking about it." And then she kind of just got caught out, which has happened a couple of times, I feel like, this season for her. Every episode, she just can't not share a secret. She's so funny. I want to talk to her. I want to know. She's probably so fun to gossip with. Like, girl, why are you telling me that? Oh, no, she's good. She's good for sure. We had Angelina. Angelina said on this pod that Emily's actually incredibly strategic and, like, running things and whatever, but, man, we are just not seeing it. I don't know if that's actually true. I'm Emily's number one defender. You're her number one defender? I'm number one defender. I love Emily. Like, Emily and I are tight. Okay. But I think that— So is all this strategic? Yes. No. I think that—I think—I'm not sure. I'll tell you what I think. But I think that, I think that Angelina was probably pissed at Christian and so had an incentive to discredit him and say, like, Emily is doing all the strategy, which is not to say that Emily wasn't doing all the strategy, but more so that, like, you know, we should wait and see. I don't think I would take her word. But then the other point with Emily is I feel like I do think that Emily is maybe, like, overcorrecting from her for the first time she played. So the first time Emily played, she had Caleb for a while. And, of course, the audience, saw that done. But she also had, like, Austin and I for even longer. And both of those relationships, she kind of felt like she was actually taken advantage of a little bit and, like, more so with Austin and I. And so I think that she's probably struggling this season between, like, I have this really close connection with Christian, but I can't be taken advantage of. And so, like, all the sharing secrets is, like, an overcorrection to try and, like, make— Maintain agency and power, despite being so closely tied to Christian. So she doesn't feel the sting of betrayal from those people when they end up betraying her. She's already—she's already taking insurance policies out on the—on who she believes she's with. Yeah, maybe—yeah, I think that is a big part of it. I just think that, like, because Emily didn't really play this way on our season. I mean, she was pretty—she was pretty locked down. Yeah. And so, you know, I—I think that this radical, like, diversion is probably—divergence is probably, like, trying to feel more active, even though you are in a similarly tight threesome. So, yeah, I—I can see that she is definitely overcorrecting, if that's the case, because you would—you don't want to keep—continually get got by the people you're trusting most, so in these scenarios, she's kind of like, "Okay, if Christian's playing me for a fool, right now, I'm going to spill the beans, and then, like, I don't look as foolish in these moments." Dee gets confronted by Rizzo about spilling the beans on the idol. Do you like Rizzo confronting Dee here? Should he have had that conversation, or just kept it to himself? Like, I'm—I don't know. I don't—I honestly, like, is there a right or wrong here, or does it matter? I know what does matter is that Dee denied it, and nobody's buying any of her shit anymore, which is such a brutal spot to be in. Like, the harder you work to get out of it, the more you get into it. Yeah, never on Survivor can you get, like, caught in one of those conversations where it's like, "Who is more truthful?" Because there's just no way of adjudicating it, so it just basically comes down to, like, the pile-on, right? Engaging one of those conversations, horrible, horrible mistake, and Dee did it, like, two or three times this episode. I think, just because, like, you know, she wants to play a little bit more aggressively and, like, you know, I forget the exact language. But, yeah, I don't know. Rizzo confronting her was kind of interesting. I feel like, on the one hand, like, if you're, like, burning her, well, actually, just, like, fuck her. I don't care. Like, it doesn't really matter to me what she said. But I almost feel like if you wanted to salvage that relationship, it could be, like, kind of a prudent thing to do, because if somebody's sharing your secret, they obviously are kind of, like, stepping out on you a little bit, you know? It's like, you know, your relationship, they're downloading the dating app, you know? And so if you want to, like, continue the relationship, like, okay, let's talk about that and get back on the same track. Let's go to counseling. And so I think that in that kind of situation, it probably is the right move to, like, you know, like, knock, knock, hey, what's going on? Yeah, yeah. And I think if you are trying to salvage that, to your point, then you immediately lock that person into an extra layer of, they're going to be locked in tighter because they can't afford to misstep with you again. So they're going to be like, oh, I have to go above and beyond to show this person that I'm with them. So I'm willing now to fall in line more and be quieter and be extra loyal to this person. Absolutely. We saw it with Seri. You know, Seri caught Stephanie in a lie, and Seri generously gave Stephanie, like, room, you know? You're like, it's okay. I'm going to forgive you, like, no matter what. Like, we're cool. And she kind of told her, and I bet Stephanie probably felt closer to Seri after that. You want to give people room to, like, forgive and admit their wrongs. It's like politics at Thanksgiving, you know? Every Thanksgiving, you go and you argue about politics, and you hate your uncle, you know? And then your uncle, he realizes, like, oh, my God, we're at war with Iran. And then he's like, well, I can't walk back my opinion because then I'm wrong, you know? You've got to give him a little room to, like, you know, come around. Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. All right. Is this a metaphor? Is this an allegory? What's the definition of what you mean? No, no, no. The MAGA alliance and Survivor 50 is on my mind. So I guess that's where I came from. But no, just a metaphor. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Just, yeah. And I don't, I believe that Rizzo was giving her a chance to maybe salvage. Like, he was covering his bases, but maybe he just was like, you know, was like annoyed by it. There's like so many reasons you could, you could target them and do this. You could, but I think if you're going to target them, you're just going to do it without having a conversation about it. So, so, but that's if you're thinking strategically and there's so much information that's just like swirling with this huge group that is like, what do you share? What don't you share? Who knows what, how do I navigate that? So it gets tricky. Emily could be lying too, you know, could be checking if Emily's not here. Yeah. Which Dee did deny that she shared that. And then she immediately ran to Tiffany and uh, was like, uh, I, I told everyone where all the idols are. Yep. I told, well, I told, she told Tiffany and Jonathan. So, uh, she immediately is like, this mistake could cost me my game. Um, has Dee ever been in a position like this in her Survivor career? No, no. I, I think that it was an interesting, you know, I think it was an interesting, you know, interesting episode for Dee, uh, in a lot of ways, but, but I think that like the Reality is that D really had, like, you know, was really imbricated in, like, a tight group. And I see online, I look myself up on the Survivor Reddit and prep for coming out here, which I haven't done in years. But I was like, I wonder what people are saying in anticipation of, you know, my appearance. Not much. Nothing really. But, you know, I noticed that the narrative had basically been that, like, you know, D just, like, kind of, like, shepherded this all to the end. Which, like, I'm not going to, like, dispute the past is the past. But I do think that, like, you know, D had worked really closely with a group that was, like, willing to, like, cover for her and bat for her, even when she wasn't there. And so, therefore, you could kind of do more, like, impulsive or intuitive things and have a fallback. And I think that maybe we were trying to do the same thing, but without people who would be loyal to you to, like, help clean up the mess. Yeah. Or enough people that were loyal to you. Other than to have. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Panda Express. Telling someone you love them, it isn't always easy. But showing them through food, sometimes that's better than words. Especially when that food's wok-cooked at Panda Express, a Joe House favorite. Pick from delicious classics, like orange chicken, honey walnut shrimp, kung pao chicken, and black pepper sirloin steak. Perfect for when you're watching the team you love. Or eating with the person you love. Have you eaten yet? Click or tap the banner to order or visit a Panda Express near you. This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Breaking news out of the North Pole. Santa and his elves are swamped with requests for vehicle floor liners. And although elves are terrific toy makers, their little hammers and chisels don't come close to the laser-measured fit of a WeatherTech floor liner, cargo liner, or truck bed impact liner. Even Santa uses them. Cookie crumbs, glitter, a reindeer hitching a ride home? He just hoses them off. Visit WeatherTech.com for all your holiday shopping today. It's all Santa approved. Born from the intensity of a knight in the eternal city. Introducing Born in Roma fragrances by Valentino. Feminine perfume Donna Born in Roma features juicy blackcurrant, central jasmine, soft cashmere, and warm vanilla. A masculine leaning but unisex womo has notes of fresh violet leaf, aromatic sage, green vetiver, and mineral salt. Shop holiday gifts at Macy's.com. Okay, boat shows up to the island. The merge is gigantic. Drew, is there any part of you that's hoping to go on this journey? Dude, yeah. Because if I'm there, I'm going to pretend like I don't want to go, but I hope I get selected, kind of. I'm going to make the most of it. I'm going to make the most of it if I do, but is that wrong? No, dude, you're 100%. Like, I'm like, just personally, I'm power hungry. Like, I'm greedy, and I don't want anyone to have an experience that I can't have, that I don't have. So, like, just default. Like, let's go on every fucking journey. Even though they're like, not really, they're not fucking worth the squeeze anymore, you know? It's like, you get like some trinket, and you have to like, you know, tear out your rotator cuff. Like, okay, that sucks. But, yeah, you've got to go on every journey. Risk your vote. And you've got to risk your vote, too. And like, that ended the games of two people on this season. I think in a, yeah, but in a group of 14, you can afford to lose your vote. Yes, it's a little bit better. But you don't know. You don't know that it's going to continue to be a group of 14. Are they going to split it up, and now you're suddenly in a group of four, or whatever, and you're just dead. I do believe after the Blood Moon last week that no contestant should ever lose their vote again. When you roll into that, when you roll into that challenge, and you can see they've got it set up as two, it's like maybe it was seven. Sorry, I interrupted you, Tyson. Get rid of the lose your vote. I think never, after last week, I learned my lesson completely. Like, you can't lose your vote, and you're shot in the dark. Otherwise, you're a sitting duck for a small group. There's no other option. You're the only option. Like, that's the way it is. There's nothing, absolutely nothing you can do to get out of that. It's got to be a choice. It's got to be, like, so, you know, they all put their shots in the dark in the bag. And even though Stephanie says she doesn't want to go, I think if she had been like, oh, I don't want to go, don't put mine in the bag, that would have, like, you know, kind of put too much of a spotlight on her. So, you all have to go with the group, and you all got to leave it up to random chance, whatever. And then she goes on the journey, and it's just like, you're doing this challenge. There's no, like, you can choose to do the challenge, or you can choose to opt out, but you're risking your vote by doing the challenge. This is what I don't like, is that it's not a choice to risk the vote. If it's a choice, that's one thing, but it's often not a choice. Stephanie just had to do this. So, would she have just lost her vote for one tribal council? I think so. Yeah. I don't know. You do make a good point, though, but at what point can you say no? Because she could have said, no, I'm not going to go. Somebody else go. That would have been a problem, maybe, for some people. I think so. I would have been like, oh, you're not playing by the rules we agreed to. I would have been like, oh, I'm not going to play by the rules we agreed to, because you're not going to play by the rules we agreed to. We need to cast a magician on Survivor. They should. I can't believe they haven't already. Is this your card? Yeah. They do need to cast, yeah. They need to have a master magician that's sleight of hand master, one of the best. I'm going to Google who the best sleight of hand in the world is, and that person should go on Survivor. Because, like, imagine if instead of Chrissy, we have the Wonder Barbara or whoever. And she's like, okay, everybody put yours in. I'm putting mine in. Bloop. And then, yeah. How did you come up with Wonder Barbara? Where did that, why was, is that like a person? I was going to say, I just came up with that. Okay, nice. I was like, I don't, in the moment, I was like, Chrissy was there, a magician. I was going to say a guy's name, but then I was like, but Chrissy was a female. operating the bag who came up with the idea to draw the shot in the dark cubes so we're gonna stay with that so then i was like wonder and then i was trying to think of a female name that started with w so it's an alliteration but i couldn't on the spot so i just came up with barbara it's fair so wonder barbara is a big fan of the podcast and she is one of the best sleight of hands that nobody knows so get her on survivor but then she could also wonder barbara could also put after after the drawing put her shot in the dark in the bag as she's giving everyone else their shot in the dark and here's mine obviously in the bag the whole time ta-da that's so suspicious not suspicious at all a lot of exposure for uh you know for the 1 in 15 um so stephanie goes on this we get some stephanie flashback uh and a lot of stephanie's stephanie uh footage um yep and then she comes back with a lie drew is there a correct way to play this like everyone's assuming you have something okay i i this is what i did which which i'm sure people will be shocked it wasn't shown because because apparently the producers were baffled but i came back i was like oh i got something but i'm not gonna say what it is yeah because i you know let it go let them speculate exactly because you know the threat is always bigger than the than the reveal you know if it's like if it's like oh if you like steal money from me i'm gonna like call the police it's it's way that's way less bad than like if you steal money from me i'm gonna do something that you'll never forget i'm like okay holy shit like okay let's let's do it so i almost think that like when you come back and like the lie is just so ham-fisted like nobody's gonna especially if it's like oh it was a two-part challenge and like you know 30 minutes or an hour like how would you you know i i just didn't really buy that i don't think anyone else would um i think there's almost value to saying like i got something but i just i'm not i'm not willing to talk about it uh i like that because then they're speculating they're they have to prepare for the most powerful thing they think it could be but it could be stupid and also if you fail you do get something you gotta lost your vote so that's also like it's easy to maintain some truthfulness to what you're saying which then sari's not clocking as a lie you're not clocking as a lie yeah totally i mean it just comes down to like the way that you know it's similar to tribal you can really use like words or information control to like manipulate the hierarchy uh this is something that we didn't see on my season again along the same thing but but caleb gave me that that that advantage you know when he came to visit my camp um during the third episode which is a long time ago but it ended up being clutch because we used it for austin but the point is caleb gave me that because caleb asked me did you get anything on the journey and i was like yeah and he was like what'd you get and he's like uh you'll have to find out that's what i said so then he was kind of spooked by that and the logic behind it was like okay well if i get to a swap i can say this advantage is whatever i need right and i've kind of had this confidence shared with him so that like you know he'll go forward but also make me seem like somebody with some some power in the game which which is always useful for forging alliances and it paid off immediately because he offered and trade me the information for the for the advantage but the point is i think that like instead of hamstringing yourself with these like made-up lies just just you can you can withhold that information and if you withhold it like explicitly there's there's a lot of like symbolic value to that and like freaking people out or like giving yourself some kind of aura like oh my god yeah uh i like that i think uh yeah people definitely fear you and be uh be really skeptical of i mean it's almost it's not as powerful as like the super idol that tony had in his first season but it is kind of akin to like we don't know what they have so it's better to just avoid completely until we can figure out or until they use it or until there's definitely enough numbers to split and play but not split the majority like there's so much to it that it just makes it so tricky to play against that person um we get this moment where uh after stephanie comes back and stephanie is like don't tell anyone sari uncharacter uncharacteristically goes straight to rizzo and tells him that stephanie is lying and that she has an extra vote is rizzo going to be able to keep that secret i i kind of think so i mean he seems to be really locked in with with ozzy and sari you know yeah but but an insane thing for her to do i mean you've never seen this guy play you know it could be a russell hans situation why would she have done that that's that's how i feel i feel like she could have kept it secret and maybe should have but then they talk about uh d and it could be time for her to go because rizzo's like i caught d she's not you know she's not being truthful is it time for her to go um is this the right move for everybody to target d like this is that is who is this bad for besides maybe tiffany i feel like it's bad for a lot of people i'd be interested to hear what you guys i mean what you guys think uh way to defer uh drew i didn't want to just like you know like drop my like you know 20 minutes of analysis but but you know i think i think it was unusual i thought it was odd i think it's i think it's bad for a lot of people in the fact that d is a big target she's the only winner still left in the game she's obviously got uh some chops enough to continue to be aggressive she plays with boldness which then makes her a bigger target so i feel like if you're somebody who has felt the heat of being the target in any degree keeping someone like d in the game is better for you like coach after this this this episode he should have if you were really intuitive in this moment should have switched to someone else other than d like he should have figured out how to switch it knowing now that he is like tiffany first or something and then you've got d yeah go after i mean there's a lot of people you can go after um and uh i just feel like it's obvious in a big group you're also like well you just kind of got to go with the flow you don't want to you know rough ruffle too many feathers uh but i do feel like there was a different direction but in the moment it's just like so tricky to shift everything and coach is too emotional to to do anything else it was especially like baffling because i i get the impulse to like okay well there's so many people here let's just like pile on somebody you know it's kind of been the meta but there is such an obvious five-some right of like loyal people who are never going to turn on each other and it's like tied into not just their identities but like their screen time right this is what they're going to be on television which i mean most of these survivor players would trade a million bucks for like screen time you know like they would give up the money to be on like camera more um so like okay front of the center we've got you think oh are you kidding me like oh my gosh dude yeah i would commit to never going on tv again for half a million dollars oh you're wiser tyson you know also these guys are never going on tv again for half a million dollars yes someone paid me a half a million i'm out that was 200. okay all right well we'll come back for the sequel we'll get another we'll hit your benchmark um okay the all-star season um but but but the i i think these guys are really really freaking hungry for screen time uh and um you've got coach you've got jonathan you got joe you've got chrissy you've got stephanie and they're like a locked five right and they're really suspicious of any uh all the dorks all the smart people all the schemers right so you know as they say the middle people middle people yeah middle people i know those not cut from the same cloth and um if i if i was like aubry emily christian devins i'd i would know he's just these guys were never going to trust me as far as they can throw me and so you have to act against them and ideally get some of them to turn on that group and like vote with the majority as soon as possible because you just can't let that solid five get get to a point where they can rival you in numbers where like an advantage could change things for instance so voting off d is like you're not just losing a lightning rod but you're losing like key numerical leverage and so when you get rid of d now you're going to have to count on like ozzy for instance ozzy betraying the small the strong you know older people who he knows and has played with before like i don't know guys it doesn't and emily knows this i mean emily no emily wants to hit coach emily's like why are we taking out d like d is a big threat but she just you know she just doesn't have the agency to do it and so i think it's kind of a tough a baffling move frankly for like um for devins and for for christian not uh not to jump on this yeah no i do agree with that now that you say that it's uh the second devins heard coach be like the middle people like christian the middle person and then rizzo's like coach devins is a middle person like you can't like like he's the middle he's a middle person like you are targeting a middle person with a middle person telling the middle person about the middle people and it's not as if the middle the middle people are like you know there's like two middle people between two groups it's like there's two people on one end and five people another and the middle people are like seven people so if you're one of the seven people when you're the middle people you're like oh we're actually on the bottom you know we're the enemy group yeah oh my god what a surprise you know so it's just it was just i don't know yeah i yeah i agree let's let's go before we get to this scramble because we've got a lot to talk about during the scramble uh immunity challenge why aren't they showing the schoolyard pick like you get so much yeah from that like we have johnny jackson who's the biggest scrimmage scrimmage scrimmage and he's that like we have jonathan and christian as the captains and how did they pick did they did they get to go back and forth as the captain or did the person they pick then get to pick the next person i'm sure we're gonna see like an extra deleted scene from uh either survivor or one of the journalists but i think that this is more interesting than watching an homage to stephanie on uh the journey yeah i kind of agree i don't know jonathan's team was horrible i mean jonathan yeah so who did he pick first who did he pick first we got three chrissy rizzo tiffany coach and aubrey does he did he pick coach first did he get to pitch did he get to pick second did christian pick first and then christian picked ozzy or joe but the fact that ozzy and joe are both on that tribe uh or on that group versus jonathan having either one of them um i don't get it he must have picked chrissy or coach in part because he's kind of like theoretically aligned with them but also in part because i think that jonathan was probably like what i need help on in this challenge is the puzzle and not the pushing the boulder part so that's why his team is a little less strong yeah well did he have to because he's got no yeah for somebody who's cut from the same cloth of course yeah okay he's got you so yes yes if he was picking the best puzzler he would have picked somebody else but they're not cut from you do actually if you are a captain like if you're jonathan you're trying to get as many people in your alliance on your team in the hopes that you win so that one of you gets immunity right is that is that the play is that the strategic thinking in these moments i mean the thing about the immunity though is that like maybe you do want to stagger and have like your best guys split on two different teams so that you have like contenders you know on both sides because you you also don't want like seven people who are not aligned with you at all like having a feast or not having a feast you know able to talk strategy too right you want somebody in there they can relay back to you if something juicy was talking about you want to spread it across both groups um also another thought here is did they have to choose girl boy girl boy girl boy because they're both men won this rock draw to be captain so then it's like okay you each have to pick a female now you each have to pick a male like what is there's so many ways that we just didn't get to see on camera i'm sure again will probably because that tends to be as we complain about not seeing how the group was split they show us how the group was split uh the next day so i would have liked to see it here in the episode just because it does give you some idea uh there is strategy to it and also it gives you an idea of who's working with who a little bit better like you there's something it's like seeing who's sleeping next to each other was one of the old things on survivor this is also one of those moments where you can kind of like if you're on the outs and you didn't know it like watching how this schoolyard pick goes down could give you a little bit of uh of some insight there do you want to win these challenges this early on drew is there are you trying to win immunity at all costs yeah i mean i i kind of think that like the field is so stacked that that like you're just never going to be seen as a bigger immunity threat than like ozzy for instance um i'm kind of on the line like play to win at every possible opportunity i don't know but i mean but i mean some people will say like oh i'm gonna throw i'm gonna sandbag for me survivors a game of probability and so you always want to do the thing that probabilistically will make you safe the most amount of times and so that's winning immunity is it though because then you become an immunity threat if you win some and then start losing my initially my first time playing yes i was like i'm gonna win everything i can at all costs no matter what um blood versus water it wasn't that i was necessarily trying not to win but i didn't care which i think made me less competitive in those moments where i was like i have the numbers winning could actually be bad because it could make me look like more of a target it's fine if i don't win yeah and i and i do see that especially on like the constitution of those seasons in terms of like who you were playing against but on this season you have ozzy you have joe you have jonathan um who for them they're going to be seen as you know they're going to be seen as you know they're going to be seen as uh physical threats even if they even if they don't want a single challenge so they just can never escape that aura and vice versa if you are since you're if you're not one of those three you're never going to get to their level i mean you know it's really you're really going to have to win like five challenges to be like oh my god this is an ozzy level threat um so i i just feel like it doesn't really matter when you have you know such powerhouses where it's for you in contrast tyson i feel like on blood versus water i mean really the only guy i would have looked at as a community threat is like brad culpepper you know and maybe and even then that's like debatable you know because just because of the nfl thing so like if you had really dominated challenges you know your threat level level would have gone way up because you had no coverage right okay that makes sense um but you were there i don't know that's just my as a viewer you know yeah and i i think i was the the challenge threat going into the season people were looking at me as this person so to not win so many challenges i i kept me safe i think it kept me more safe than if i had won a few um and then people were like oh we might not be able to get rid of him at the end if he's winning so often um but we do get ozzy and ozzy when that kind of felt good did that feel did anybody else like watching ozzy win an immunity again well after he's been like so kind of pathetic in the challenges wow pathetic is the word you use he went to every tribal council he went to every tribal council i mean like you know obviously the yes yes totally fair i mean obviously the the individual challenges are where ozzy shines the most but i mean dude he was complaining about his back on like day one day one he was like i couldn't tell if it was from hunching or from hitting the bar against his back because if it was like a superficial surface thing that was a different thing than hunching that'd be that'd be more fair okay i read it more as like he just you know pulled something or whatever yeah i couldn't tell which of the two it was no it was nice it was cool to see ozzy win a challenge i agree and uh is he gonna break boston rob's record here he needs to win one more to tie and two more to be the record holder he can tie it i think i i i still maintain that ozzy is like is the most remarkable and like freak athletic player to you know uh yeah probably maybe a little younger than that hasn't hasn't really you know hasn't really been an easy 45 i mean i don't think that guy's going to like equinox you know you know like he's not he's just kind of out there living life he's not you know he's not like on the jonathan creatine diet um and he's like i mean he's unbelievable he's like a three sport athlete like he can do anything he's even though he doesn't have that much muscle mass per se he's just so good and he's great at the skilled components um i really have enjoyed seeing ozzy as like of all the returnees maybe more than that but he's just so good at the skilled components um i really have he's maybe most of all uh i feel like he's shown a lot of like growth and dimensionality that like wasn't there in game changers uh and he's probably like the guy that i'm i'm rooting for personally um okay so i'm excited to see him when they can get him they can get him over that record if you know like the next challenge is like the hang on to the pole challenge you know that's probably an ozzy win if we get some more swimming challenges you know it'll be him versus jonathan but we saw him get out of the water faster than jonathan yep yeah on the so did they really wake up the beast here uh with ozzy like he he is parting words from the challenge where they don't know what's coming they woke up the beast i can see it you know sometimes like they give aubrey these bajillion confessionals where it's like oh my game's just starting like i'm about to you know get going and and you're like okay well we wouldn't get all this shit about aubrey if she was you know she's gonna get voted off next episode and so you know i uh i i wouldn't be shocked between the the boston rob mentioned being included who of course like boston rob is like you know christ himself on the survivor on the survivor beach um and and then that comment i wouldn't be shocked if like ozzy goes on to win another and at least tie the record okay okay yeah i think uh there's so much game left there's so many people there's got to be so many more immunities up for grabs as long as he can stay in the game long enough to uh get a few more opportunities to win and i think that's a good thing i think that's a good thing i think he could definitely tie and probably surpass he needs two more to surpass um did i forget anything from that challenge coach and chrissy on the puzzle was a wild choice to me um i guess out of that group we had who did we have there we had uh could have been like aubrey siri rizzo aubrey yeah i don't know maybe it wasn't a wild choice yeah you don't know i don't know i don't know i don't want rizzo on the puzzle yeah yes but they don't know that he knows that they don't know that that's right i mean maybe he was like do not i cannot me i'm actually terrible i mean coach and chrissy got close it was it was fairly close it looked like uh yeah yeah so let's uh go to the scramble which i just find so entertaining there was so much i have so many notes here uh we get uh we get chrissy it's she's saying it's the two targets are d and aubrey it's between that um and we get aubrey having these conversations with siri and coach asking about her idol dude to me the one where aubrey is like i'm gonna play my idol to siri and siri is just like don't forget yeah don't forget this time and she laughs i believe that now that you say that that's maybe one of the catalysts for aubrey actually playing it instead of dangling it again is siri being like don't forget again like we're watching we're all i wonder if she had had a more if she'd just been like yeah i felt safe and especially because last tribal council uh you know genevieve played shot in the dark so she could have said hey once i saw that genevieve played the shot in the dark i knew how unsafe she felt so i didn't want to play my idol like that's the perfect cover if she done that i wonder if then she could have done you know a similar move this episode where she keeps the idol but once you do the like i oh i forgot to play it or whatever it becomes such an embarrassing thing it's like yeah just burn that thing yeah that's i believe that if she would have been like i felt safe so i ended up just not playing it i think nobody would have had another conversation about it would have been totally fine but the fact that she was like oopsie doopsie i forgot it's like did you how how can you we're playing survivor and you have an idol you're one of the few people that have an idol in the game and you said you were going to play it and then you didn't and you just said you forgot like that's too much it's just too much um coach his descent into madness continues um when the army needs a general you know count coach in rallying the votes there's so much to your coaches dancing with aubrey like doing this weird like coach is like full coach full dragon to the point where he's like dragon slayers and is back in full force i'm back baby yeah like uh why did they not target coach here like everybody's watched they're watching him creating haikus to himself and then clapping for himself and giggling to himself that's why that is why they didn't target him because he is doing a great job as being a distraction you got to keep him there as long as possible will he get any votes if he keeps making everyone upset it doesn't matter let's just keep him here stephanie asks it one point she's like is he trying to get voted out and chrissy's like i don't know and i feel like it's so it is yeah so unknown that you're like maybe we just keep them yeah yeah yeah i mean he doesn't you know he's not threatening in the way that like a real vote driver a real leader is you know you don't you you you i don't know this for sure but i suspect when you're playing with coach that you kind of have a feeling of like superiority where it's like this guy is so ridiculous like this is not a threat to me like i don't i don't need to worry about this guy like you know eventually like karma will strike him down and like we'll just like chug on but then the flip side is coach actually really benefits from that because he is a pretty effective and aggressive boat driver um like he's really unafraid to like push the numbers and to like order people around and so if he was more competent he'd probably be less effective in ordering people around because they would be like well this guy's like you know this is a serious threat i mean this is like you know this is like some pe guy who's just coming and acquired my company and i'm like not working for him like i gotta i gotta get out of here um but but he's so kind of ridiculous that you almost don't even really know how to like respond and i think that i think that he also probably is benefiting from the sheer number of people on the beach because when there's that many people it's like being in a stampede that that like it's not like individual conversations that move the needle it's crowd dynamics and so if you're just one person in it in this way you do have a kind of sense of like well i'm subordinate to the crowd and it's like with the momentum of the crowd so if you can just have somebody really loudly like pushing the direction of the crowd like that's enough so so i mean like of course you know tyson i'm sure it's the same way but whenever we have like a situation like this you go back to your season and on my season with the caleb vote you know kendra bruce and i were just really loudly saying it has to be caleb and even though actually the majority of people didn't want to do caleb every single one of them just says like okay well i'm only one person and i'm in the stampede you know it's it's difficult to mess up against that i thought we're it's easier to just go with the stampede at this point than to try to push the tide there's like who has the power to push the tide and also like you said to your credit to coach is not threatening people aren't looking at coach being like oh he's gonna take us he has this game in a stranglehold they're like nobody cares about coach driving this vote it's easiest to go along with it because he's so riled up right now and he's like oh he's gonna take this game in a stranglehold and he's like oh he's gonna take this game in a stranglehold and he's like oh he's gonna take this game in a stranglehold and then we'll just get rid of coach later or i'll just beat him in the end like i don't either way totally coach's real mistake was attempting to do the split um and there's a couple reasons why that's wrong because like first of all i thought it was pretty unnecessary um and second of all you try to get too cute with it but but third if you're just going on a momentum vote and like there's this whole mass of people you know and they're all going one way and so even if you have your own little agenda and you don't you know you don't agree you're just pushed that way the moment you like split that up into like individual people having like responsibilities you're giving them all the agency back because you've you've you've boiled down that kind of like the fluidity of the crowd to like an isolated network where there are like seven people with this job and four people with this job and if you're like one of those people you just say okay well now i know exactly like the nodes i need to hit and the switches i need to flip so you're giving up the kind of like anonymous force of like the mass majority which has been so effective in these first like two merge votes through the entirety of the new era yeah and also you nobody wants to vote for the person coming back into the game because you don't want to admit that there is something to like just lying about the direction you voted but also that's more difficult to do so you see the conversations happening where everybody's like well i'd rather vote d than vote tiffany well i would too you know i'm gonna actually be the one that votes like it was just like you can't also be the person that's telling someone to vote for tiffany because nobody wants to vote for the person coming back into the game and so i think also that if coach is telling me like tyson you need to vote for tiffany in my mind i'm like okay coach is okay with throwing me to the wolves a little bit so um i just want to list all the things coach did in this moment and then we can react accordingly uh we already talked about some of them but uh coach is very upset at the plan being so hard to orchestrate visibly upset can't believe how difficult it is um and uh then he tells rick that christian is in the middle and he can't play with middle people and then rizzo famously coaching coach says slay dragons at tribal not at camp and good line yeah good line oh some finger snaps there for rizzo that's a great line um rick and emily deciding or wondering if they can then target coach like can we flip this all on coach is there a part of you uh that thought they were going to like maybe there was going to be some coach votes or was it just like a red herring and we knew it from the get-go i mean i when when d got up to like do the live tribal as a strategy thing yeah i knew it wasn't gonna happen um because the people she went to she went to like remind me she went to ozzy and who was the other one she went to ozzy she uh let me see right here uh so d goes to aubrey and ozzy and says i'm voting for coach and i have the numbers okay if aubrey is like the person you're selling it to or at least if you had the numbers why tell i didn't tell yeah i i knew i knew she was toast at that point um yeah i think that like you know it's so easy for us to like sit at home and i i'm like more guilty of this possibly than anyone in like the entire survivor community and be like oh this was obviously the strategic thing to do like you know you guys are you guys are buffoons um but but you know it's a lot harder out there obviously um and i think that also these people are really playing um with a lot to lose because you know i i you can't overstate like the psychological dimension of like i'm gonna return and get all this screen time and like you know i'm gonna ascend so like the legacy of the survivor great um but then also there's a kind of consciousness that this very well may be the second to last uh major returnee season um you know who knows how long jeff is gonna stick around it took forever to get to this point the casting was so insanely grueling and you'd also if at least i'm one of these players i'm thinking that like they had to shove like 24 of us or 22 of us on the beach like clearly there's not going to be like you know a season next year where like they're going to bring back the other people and so the point i'm trying to make is these people really have a lot to lose and so with so many numbers in the board a lot of people have kind of a let's find our time and wait mentality yeah stick around as long as we can don't get in the crossfire and uh and live to fight another day yeah i do feel like d despite this being an episode that's kind of full of like some mistakes from her that ultimately lead to her going overall i feel like this season added to her like survivor legacy a bit like overall i feel like she played pretty well coming in we were talking pre-game uh and she came in with the biggest threat level of anyone other than maybe savannah and rizzo just because they were unknown so i thought it was like a pretty pretty solid showing from her uh now she gets to be mayor ponderosa yeah um anything else that tribal council uh jump out to you have we seen somebody intentionally use the threat of a live tribal council like that before i thought that was kind of like a new a new idea i feel like live travel because what do you mean like like prep their allies for it kind of like well i mean i guess prepping tiffany but like i felt like live travels have typically typically kind of like happened organically because somebody's like really panicking yeah but part of d's strategy there was to intentionally use the live travel to like cause chaos and hope that something would happen as a result versus attempting to orchestrate a vote via the live travel i thought that was kind of an innovation that was something new and creative but maybe it's happened and i've forgotten i haven't watched 48 and 49 so closely but i thought that was cool but do you think she told too many people that she was going to do that and it got back to the group anyways so they were like okay everyone heads up d is going to stand up at tribal council who could she have told other than like tiffany you know i don't know i don't know if she's going to be able to do that but i mean she told tiffany did she tell aubrey no she wouldn't have told aubrey because she went to her so maybe it was fine and emily could have told everyone else i don't know but but at the very least it was a good idea yeah i mean especially when your back is against the wall and you realize that like you have nothing to lose by just trying more and harder and and different stuff um tiffany votes for coach and says uh you're a self-righteous hypocrite uh do you agree with that statement drew dude i love coach like my girlfriend she can't watch the season with coaching and she hates coach so much but i love coach uh and so from a place of love coach is absolutely a self-righteous hypocrite like there's just no doubt you know yes it's it's what we love about him oh man my wife watch this episode and enjoy watching this episode dude coach knows he's a self-righteous hypocrite like deep down like i bet if you get coach drunk like he can kind of lie a little bit you know you know you don't think so i know maybe you guys are boys you can't you can't talk so hard to tell but It's hard to tell. He did text me and say, you're going to see the return of the Dragon Slayer soon. He texted me that. So he definitely knows it's coming, but I don't know if he knows to what extent or degree it's coming. Riley, you were going to say something about your wife's love for Coach. Well, she's similar, Drew, actually, to your girlfriend where she hated Coach for a while, but now has actually come around. And loves him and is loving him on this season. But we watched South Pacific years ago, and she was like, I cannot stand this guy. It was almost like, I don't even want to watch any other season that he's on. And I was like, just keep watching. Just stick with it. And then I feel, you know, we've had him on this podcast a couple of times, and I feel like he does come across with maybe some more self-awareness than what we typically see on the show. But then I don't know. Something's different. It just collapses. And you're like, no, he's just actually like this. I don't know. It's very hard to get a handle on him. But man, he's just such one-on-one. And this episode, I loved watching. Yeah. We also get Joe's firehouse reference. Sri immediately shooting it down. And then Joe apologizing for his firehouse reference at the end. Oh, you can't apologize. Oh, it's like committing like sepuku. It's like, it's just like standing up and like, I'm so stupid. Like, oh, my God, Joe, dude. Come on, man. I mean, I think I thought he was apologizing more in jest. Just like, I'm sorry, guys. I didn't mean to start a whole discourse. It was just my thing. And then it became a thing. It was kind of like, I didn't understand where he was going with it. Because he was like, you know, in the firehouse, we like solve our problems. It was like, I didn't understand where he was going with it. It's a company almost like, yeah, it's not the same thing. I don't, I don't, I'm not a firefighter. So I don't know what the social dynamics are in the firehouse. But I got to feel like they're much different than what happens on Survivor. Yeah. I like it. You appreciate it. I like to. I thought that that is what it's like to be in the majority. That like, if you're in the majority, you guys do kind of get together ostensibly, make the decisions. There is an implicit hierarchy. There is a boss who is really deciding what happens. Who is the boss? On that alliance? Coach? Yeah, it's definitely coach. I think, I think coach probably is like pulling. I think that Jonathan is his number two. And I think that Steph probably has like some, some sway. And then Chrissy and Joe are all up for the ride. Okay. Imagine if coach were actually like the fire chief at a firehouse. Probably some houses would burn down. Um, yeah. Well, let's, uh, there's still more coach. I, I'm looking through my notes. There's more coach. He said a quote. Uh, Emily said there was a lot of conflict after the blood moon. And then coach said a quote and Jonathan had to translate it to everybody. Only in silence, the word, only in darkness, the light, only in dishonesty, truth. Yeah. Evans. I can't translate that. Yes. And Jonathan, uh, or somebody saying truce will be revealed. Uh, and then everyone's whispering and coach is just chilling and Jeff approaches him again. And he's like, sometimes when I'm boiling inside, I speak in riddles or I put a mask on and relax. So good. It's good. It's so good. It's so good. It's so good. He's just gold. Um, D played her shot in the dark and rightfully so. And I just feel like Aubrey should have held onto her idol one more time. If you're feeling safe, like you still disagree with that. Yeah, I kind of do. Because like, the thing is, is that like, Aubrey is just the perennial easy vote. Uh, and she can't play that idol on anyone. Um, and she can't play that idol on anyone. She can play that idol five or six or something. She made it like far that season. And then, and then, and then, uh, edge of extinction. I mean, kind of leader role by virtue of like being a returnee, but similarly it was the outsider had no allies at any point. So like, this is like a continuous problem with Aubrey's game and she, you know, hanging onto the idol is not gonna, it's not gonna fix it. She's got to like attempt to reintegrate. To your point too, actually, when you play an idol that does not matter in that moment, it's a mark against you in the game. So it takes her threat level as someone who could win in front of a jury way down. I think eventually like you get to the end, maybe she gets finished. I knew I had to burn it to even get here. But in those moments when you're watching that, you're like, okay, she played her idol incorrectly. It was inconsequential. It didn't matter at all. She just threw it away. That's not necessarily like a power move. Totally. And almost there's a way in which the like, I forgot. That thing does have like a slight little upside because it does create a narrative where Aubrey can play her idol like legitimately without also raising her threat level. Right. People could be like, oh, that was the, she made the right move with the idol. But then also there's no like peak of like, wow, you know, idol maniac, like, you know, getting people out and undermining the majority. Right. You know, so it was kind of a weird, weird situation where I think, I think there were, there are some, some unusual pluses to like playing the idol and unloading it. Yeah, I agree. Should Rizzo and Ozzy like unload their idols too at some point? I think they'll have to at some point. Like, like play it prophylactically to just get it off the table or like playing for themselves. I think they'll have to, I think they'll have to play it prophylactically at some point to use your terminology. Yeah. I think, I think that's going to be, especially like if Ozzy keeps kind of winning challenges and stuff, he's just going to have to just like burn it. That's what kind of stinks too. It's like if, If Ozzy does keep winning challenges, then he has this idol that he just can't even use. Right. Cause he can't. No, he's going to use it at some point. Well, you have to not win a challenge. A real power move for Ozzy would be to win a challenge and play the idol on himself just to flex that he's definitely burning the idol. That would kind of freak me out. That's got too much aura. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Bros got too much aura on that move because that would make me think like, wow, this dude really thinks he's going to win every challenge. Okay. What's more aura to win a reward challenge and go by yourself, rejecting Jeff's offer to take other people with you or play an immunity idol on yourself when, uh, when you have already won immunity. Going to the reward alone would be like in and of itself enough to return for a captain season. Like I w I would bow down and worship, you know, as a viewer, if you went to the reward, that's the kind of thing you would, you would do Tyson, you know? I've been preaching for the entirety of my tenure here at the ringer that I regret not going on a reward by myself. When Jeff's like, choose three people, Tyson. I'm like, how about I choose zero? I need some R and R. Let's go to the yacht by myself. You've been saying it for so long that I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened yet. I'm surprised it hasn't happened either. Yeah. If it doesn't happen this season, I don't want to have to go back on Survivor. Just do it in one reward. And then you can also be like, all right, I did my thing. And now you can all just vote for me. I'm going home. I wanted to do one thing. I wanted to do one thing here. And I did it. Like, I'm not even playing for immunity. I'm just trying my hardest at the stupidest reward. It's like the Charmin where it's like, get toilet paper when you poop. And you're like, dude, falls out. I'm going so hard on this so that I can go to the Charmin outhouse by myself. You're sitting back during the immunity challenges so that you can save your strength. - Coach? - Yeah, yeah. No, I think, coach is pretty solidly like solidified himself as the boss of that group and uh i think that he's gotten he's gotten ozzy and serena to take his side and in this succession crisis between you know d so i think in terms of like straight up power dynamics he's probably the guy i would feel the best about but i think i just yeah well i let me ask you this then so uh are the people who are playing honorable and loyal looking at coach thinking he's playing honorable and loyal or like for me maybe there's a little bit of like oh is coach even like the same caliber as us as far as honor and integrity go like some people are questioning that publicly to his face so then he has to constantly combat it or are they on his side like are they drinking the kool-aid or are they not that's the question well i feel like the issue is more so that they've made their beds with coach um so then it's kind of like to betray my ally is to act dishonorably it's less so that like is coach as honorable as i am but it's more so than like i you know because to that it's about me am i gonna behave honorably um and so i think that i think that i i don't think there's any world where anyone in that group save jonathan thinks about turning on coach okay uh let's hear some other answers though i feel like i feel like i've there's a lot of disagreement on this one who do we think is well i'm thinking like i who advanced their game like this this episode it was just kind of kind of like i don't feel like voting out deed necessarily was the strongest move but i do think that rizzo continuing to build something with sari sari sitting in a great position pulled in stephanie too because she read the lie and then was okay with it i'm gonna say sari i think sari doing that to stephanie was uh was was pretty strong like you do feel some loyalty to someone who offers you immediate forgiveness uh as they've caught you in a lie totally ashley yeah ashley uh i'm gonna say i'm gonna say joe joe was not in the business this episode he could have very much gotten to the business of honesty integrity when uh he was hold he was holding back he was holding back he was holding back he was holding back he was holding everything back into the hammock and i feel like you know with coach yelling at everybody about never lying and he could have he could have joined him be like yeah guys look at me i've never lied once in my life but he didn't he's been in the shadows just listening to coach just nodding his head and i think as long as coach is going which i think coach is probably going to go pretty far as long as coach is going i think joe will be right there so i think it's it's helped his game i think uh i think rizzo you know d spilled his secrets and then she goes home and he also has sari coming in like immediately telling him about stephanie's steal a vote that she won at the journey so he is like this this was the episode to me where i was like okay rizzo has like fully shed the like i'm the unknown like can't you know can he be trusted we haven't seen this guy or whatever it's like no he's like locked in with a good alliance and um has found a group to play with and is kind of just playing now on his own terms so uh i feel like i was impressed by him okay what's next all right who damaged their game the most now we have too many options yeah you only have 13 people to choose from drew is that going to be enough i guess i already said coach although i do maintain that coach really improved his both the advance and damages game you gotta you gotta look either as the surface level and then there's infrastructure which is like surface level coach did a lot of crazy shit and like seemed like it insanely unreliable but infrastructurally in terms of like collisions i think that he has like built a really solid group that is going to be fairly easily convertible into a majority because i just don't see a world where the new other group which will be christian and devins is gonna seem like like more honest or or at least like less dangerous than or excuse me more dangerous than coach who doesn't seem very dangerous at all so i i stand by my coach thing it's hard to say i feel like tiff's in a really really tough spot i feel like not reading the you know tea leaves and voting for d is like a great way to ensure you're still on the bottom um even though i really like tiff but but yeah i think she knew it was going to d i think she just was like too loyal to write her name down um and i don't know if people are gonna necessarily fault her for that and there is a world where you're like oh she's so loyal to d at this point like if i can win her over i know she's not voting for me and she's fighting for me because she did fight pretty hard for d until she realized it was a lost cause and it was like i'm not burning mine down so that d to protect d because it seems like it's it's not gonna work um i think coach did the most i think that if you're in an alliance with coach and you see coach kind of go off the rails a little bit that is scary like how far off the rails are you going off the rails can he go this seems relatively minor and he's losing his mind so if it gets more combative down the road can i rely on him to do the thing he says he's gonna do or to have my back that's where i think that like it's a problem for coaches that there is something to being unlikable to the majority because then nobody's threatened by you to win at the end so that definitely is powerful but if you do so much so that you've lost the trust of your allies then that's an issue and i think coach is on the cusp of that i'm gonna say emily i don't know how many more times emily can tell everybody's secrets before you know and i feel like it's bad jury management as well they're telling everybody's secrets and they get voted out they go on the jury i don't what her reputation is especially when she's not necessarily targeting those people to go out she's just telling their secrets i think it's one thing if you tell their secrets with the specific intent to target them but if you're not and they go out you don't even get credit for their exit you just get them their animosity riley what do you got i have i have coached too for the same reasons that you said tyson and i feel like like even some of these people in the honor integrity alliance are getting rubbed the wrong way by him obviously talked about joe and the like eyes he was making but i feel like there was some jonathan too where coach is like trying to share his haikus and it's like all right no thanks dude like yeah it's it's fine so i i think that there could be a scenario coming up where if you have a group and it's like we just need a vote that's relatively more consensus coach could end up being that consensus yeah even though then he'll be on the jury being like i will make sure to vote for him or none of you win somehow the honorable only the only the honorable yeah so the one person from the honorable integrity group that sticks with coach that doesn't flip and then they win the game automatically he's gonna have that sway over the jury he's sure of it um who who are our winner picks after this week drew who you got as winner pick you guys always make me come up with it first uh yeah we do make you come up first it's fair it's fair i'm the newbie i'm the guest um i don't think coach even though i'm a lot higher in coach than you guys are uh i don't obviously think he's gonna win um i think the jonathan uh looks really good i hate to say it because like he's so new and he doesn't deserve it but i think rizzo looks really good um doesn't deserve it in the sense that he's with like sari and ozzy and all of these you know obviously he's played really well um i'm just looking at my list of the players because there's so many yeah i think that those two are probably my picks joe or jonathan and rizzo look really good to me right now yeah i don't hate it and i feel like jonathan's gonna have a tougher time in front of a jury then like tiffany's already pissed at him d's pissed at him uh like it's he's got blood on his hands so uh that's uh uphill battle for sure rizzo i really like that pick right now like he seems like he's just integrating himself more and more um i i mean i can't stay with tiffany she's by herself now and it seems like she did not vote how everyone else voted which is also a problem for those people unless someone can see the loyalty and her sticking by d even when she knew d was dead i guess i have to go with sari like she's just getting more powerful every single episode like she's sucked rizzo fully in she's now sucked stephanie in i think she's in a great spot i don't see how she avoids making fire uh but maybe she can make fire i don't know so uh i'm gonna go with sari i'm gonna ride with sari now i am not going to give up on tiffany i've had her as my pick since before the season started i'm gonna say she's gonna get out of it i don't know how she's gonna get out of it but hopefully she's gonna get out of it i'm gonna say she's gonna get out of it i'm gonna say she's she okay so she still has aubrey and then aubrey could maybe include her into whatever she's up to But then she's trying to get with Coach. Would Tiffany be able to? So there's a lot of different things that Tiffany might be able to happen. I'm rooting for her. She can do it. I believe in her. Riley? I'm sticking with Seri from last week. And I feel like she just continues to be in a better and a better position. It's, you know, she just, every episode she ropes somebody else in. Yeah. We're not seeing a ton of her, but every time we see her, it's her looping another person into her group. Yeah. And they're not throwing her name out. There's just no chance she gets to the end. You know, like- That's what I think. She looks good, but there's just no chance. Yeah. I agree. That's my belief as well. Okay, gotcha. But who looks the best right now? She looks like one of the best. She is the front runner. Nobody's saying Seri. Day one, people were saying Seri. Then everything changed and nobody's saying Seri. All right. I'll give you guys that. That's true. This was like, this was, I was on the exact same line of thought as you, Drew, for a lot of the early part of this season, just being like, how does she even make it to final three? And now I'm just like, I don't know. How does she make it to the merge? Like, how does she get through any of this when she's three? Like, maybe someone just brings her, you know? Like, I just can't put it past her anymore. She's just magic. So, the final category is who's going home next week. Let's start somewhere else. Tyson, who's going home next week? Drew, I'm sorry. We always put you on the spot. I know my answer. Okay. Tell us. Oh, okay. Devins or Christian is going home. 100%. Like, I'm going on Cal State and betting on it. I'm that confident. Because why would they have shown the hidden idol in the refresher at the beginning of the episode? It didn't come into play. Yeah. Keep doing that. And the ground was laid with conflict between Rick and Coach. Like, Christian or Devins is going home next step. It's a toss-up which one, but I'm like 100%. I think it's Coach. I think if he can't pump the brakes on the way he's moving, people are just going to get fed up with him. And that's, like, enough. Especially in a big group when you're trying not to create separation. If everybody can be like, okay, it's Coach's time to go. Let's just, like, let's just do it. Like, let's, why not? So, there's also, a ton of people still left in the game. There's going to be another multi-elimination. Is that going to happen next week? Are we going to see it down the road a little bit? Who knows? And if that's the case, and they split up, how many people do we have in the game now? 13? 13. So, they're not going to do a split tribal council. Probably. On the preview, you know, Jeff says something like, oh, there's another twist. It's double the consequences. Oh. I don't know what that means. Double the consequences, double elimination, probably, maybe. So, I think if, I think that right now, any twist where the group is smaller and has to go to a tribal council, Coach is in danger. For sure. So, yeah, I'm going to say Coach. That's a great point. I was thinking, I was going to say Coach just because I'm upset with Coach. That they try to put Tiffany out. I'm offended on her behalf. And so, I was going to say Coach. But, yeah, now thinking about it, in terms of the vote, they already just got rid of Dee and Dee was a really big threat. And then I'm trying to think, it would probably be like Rizzo, but Rizzo is so connected. And if you're going down the line, the only person who's really making a big thing at camp is Coach. Everyone else is being very quiet. And that's just not good. People like, a little bit of time to sleep instead of eat because they can't eat. And if Coach is telling everyone you can't lie either, it's just too much for brain. Coach can't go, guys. This is going to be a disaster if he goes. He can't go. I mean, he's like, he's like half the entertainment value, you know? I hope you guys are all wrong. I was scared he might be going this episode just because we're getting so much of him. I was like, oh gosh, is this? I'm going to go, I'm going to go the other direction. Say, you know, the person who was, I don't know if left out of the vote, but maybe left herself out of the vote and just say Tiffany. Clearly on the bottom. I think so far on the bottom that probably the vote moves to someone who's like a bigger threat. But yeah, I'm not sure who that person would be at this point. So maybe Tiffany. Anything else before we go? Thank you so much for having me. That's what I've got. Always a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on. Yeah, Drew. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time and energy and all your insights. We love having you here and hope to have you on in the near future for next seasons. Tomorrow, we'll be talking with Dee at Exit Press. And I have a very special surprise for everyone. So you will not want to miss this. Tune in as well tomorrow to our Exit Press and everything else we got going on. Like, I wish I could say it, but Riley and Ashley, do not know what's happening. And yeah, it's one for the ages. So until then, thank you all for tuning in. Remember to subscribe to our YouTube, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again. Until tomorrow. See ya. See ya. See ya. See ya. didn't change, your receipt did. The Sussingman Muffin with Egg Extra Value Meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time. Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing.