Recapping ‘Survivor 50’ Episode 10! | The Pod Has Spoken

[MUSIC PLAYING] What's up everybody? Welcome back to the podcast, spoken. Very, very exciting episode of Survivor I Have to Say. Everyone hesitant about Mr. Beast participating and being there. Even Mr. Beast himself publicly was like, I do not want to go the route of that country, singing superstar who all the fans shit on afterwards. And I don't think he did. I think he kept it nice and short and sweet and tight and ended up being exciting. We'll get into all of that. First, we're here with the always my rock, Ashley Smith. Always here, making us sound and look amazing as well as adding valuable insight. Lots of fans who listen to the show say, Ashley doesn't talk enough, but when she does, we know it's going to be gold. We also have the wolf of quiet pines who is not as quiet as Ashley. Ashley, the Ash and Harold is a boisterous, right? They say about me. You could talk less. No, they don't say that. They also want to hear from you more. They don't say they want to hear from me less, but they want to hear from both of you more. Which is more of everything. That's more of everything. We have a very exciting guest. Someone who has been part of Survivor since Palau, third place, Ian Rosenberger, Ian, how are you? I'm good. It's good to be here. You all have great nicknames. I wish I needed-- Coach gave them to us. No, I talked to Coach. Oh, seriously? Yeah, yeah. I was going to talk about how much I hated the coach gave people nicknames this evening. Yeah. You don't like the nicknames? I think there's-- I mean, I like yours, but I think the act of giving a nickname to somebody is so arrogant, but we can talk about that. Well, the thing, though, also with nicknames, is you can't give yourself your own nicknames. Sure. It has to come naturally from bullies, is generally-- Right. That's right. That's how it has started. You have to hate it. Yeah, it wasn't a right of passage. I was called "Disease" at Boy Scout Camp because I was barfing all the time. So that stuck with me for a couple of years. Oh, man. I was called "Stork" because I am gangly in what I think that's the most. I was called "Storks." Yeah. I was also gangly. I might have gotten that in Boy Scout Camp, too. Yeah. So-- And those were the two nicknames that honestly stuck with me the longest. "Disease" and "Stork." I have to tell you, "Diseases" are rough one. Yeah. I just pretended like it didn't matter to me and then hid all of my feelings under a sensor. Sure. Yeah. That's how you're ended up on reality TV, by the way, right there. Exactly. So, Ian, I do want to get into this episode and I promise you all listening we are because it is a long TV episode. But I've met Ian before. He does not remember this. I've talked to him before. So, I will tell him the story and hopefully that jugs his memory. It was 2009. We were getting phone calls for heroes versus villains. They flew us all out to California. Ian was in that crew. We all took the tests. We were in the thing. And then we all went home. And they tried to keep us as separate as possible. But on our way home, I was at the airport. And as I was walking through the airport, I saw Sandra and Rupert sitting together, chit chatting. I thought, I want to be a part of that. So, I walk over and I sit down. And I'm chit chatting with Sandra and Rupert. Early pre-gaming stuff. Maybe a little bit. Kind of like, let's watch each other's backs. No matter what happens. As we're chit chatting, we see one Ian Rosenberger walking by. And Sandra's probably going to be embarrassing for me. Ian, come here. And Ian walks over and he sits down and there's four of us. And we didn't have a ton of time because our flights were all at different times in different parts of the airport. And we all just kind of gave each other the thumbs up. And that was the last all four of us ever talked. We never had a Zoom call. We never had a FaceTime. We never had anything like that after that. Do you remember that at all? I do. Yeah, I remember actually right. I saw Rupert at the airport. And he didn't know who, he didn't remember me or know who it was. And I was like, okay, well, that's that. But did you tell him that? Did you remind him of that moment? I know, but I remember me now that you said that. I remember meeting you in Sandra and Rupert sitting down and chatting. It was, that's right. That was, that was 2009. That was a long time ago, 15 years ago. Yeah. Was that the first time you'd been invited back? Yeah, that was, I was invited back. There were two times before 50. And then, um, and then also I had conversations with, with the crew on 50. So let's talk about that real quick so that our listeners can get a little bit. So you're on pull out which season was that season 10? Season 10. Yeah, so five years in. Yeah, it's old school. I think it might be the dividing line. Okay. I mean, like, I don't know. That I could be totally wrong. But it felt like once redemption island happened the following season, things started to change. Okay. There's a lot of debate. You got called for heroes versus villains, a presumably a hero. Do you assume that you would have been a hero on that season? Oh, that's a great question. I think I would have, I think I like to think I would have been. I think you would. I could see how it might go another way. But yes, I think I, I think I would have been. Okay, so then what else did you get called for? Um, I got called for, it was, uh, one with, uh, with pairs. Uh, what was the one with the others? Yes, yeah, which is what I, I, and that was the season I ended up winning. What other than you got called, and then 50, they floated. I would get a call from time to time about other seasons that, you know, now I can't remember which one was which. But I got the call for 50, uh, I don't know. I guess it was, it would have been last year. Okay. And, uh, and went through the process. And it seemingly went, you know, this was the one, every other time that I've been asked, um, to participate was a time in my life that, uh, I was getting married for one of them. And then I was having a kid. My, my first daughter was born and it just wasn't the right time. Um, you know, life gets in the way and, and in a good way. For me, survivor has always been something that's been, um, a privilege to have participated in. You know, there's such a family and community around the show. Um, and I love the fans. I love the people who love it so much. I think that it was just not the right time. And for 50, um, we had had our, our second, my son, Dash was already born. And they were, he was just body trained. And, you know, we're in a good spot. Um, you know, we just, we bought a house not too long ago over COVID. And it was just like, okay, well, maybe there is, this is the right time. I, if they ask, I'll tell you what's funny. My wife and I said, if they ask, and the prize money is more than a million dollars, I will go back. And so when it came and there was a million dollars, um, I was like, okay, well, you know, no, no big deal. But then today on today's episode, I was just, I was like, oh my gosh, what an amazing twist. So it was really cool to see that they've upped the ante for sure. So how long were you through casting? Because I know there's been a lot of discourse about that for season 50 specifically today. They make you believe you were going to be part of the season for sure. It was always a question up in the air. We'll let you know, like, what was the? I, I was there. I think at the end. Um, and then I got a, I got an email from Jeff actually. Um, and, and, uh, you know, saying, hey, it didn't fall the way that, you know, that we think it, we thought that it would. And, you know, we would love to have you back. And I think, um, and it was, it was really nice. I wrote him a nice note back and it was good to hear from him. Um, I remember our mom's got along great at my finale. Uh, and so when he mentioned his mom, I think on either today's episode or last week's episode, I, I, you know, was just nice to think of Mrs. Probe. It just didn't, didn't go, go the way that we thought that it would. So it was no big deal. Obviously, it's great to watch as a fan. I like to see the twists and turns. Obviously, I know Stephanie very, very well. Um, but I, I have been a fan from afar of Aussies for a long time. I like the way he's played the game. I love Jonathan. Um, I think Aubrey's an assassin. It just thinks she's so interesting. Um, there's been so many people on, uh, who have started to surprise me. I just, I seem to gravitate towards the, um, towards the old school, uh, a little bit more. Just because I, I love, and I, I actually, Tom, I'm still really good friends with Tom with one of my season Tom Westman. And he played with Surrey, uh, I, on a season or two after and, and I, I just remember how much he loves Surrey. And as a result, you know, I've always liked there. We've met once or twice and I, I really enjoy her. And I think she's a really wonderful person. So I would have loved to have played with her. Um, but I think there's a lot of good people. And honestly, I'm surprised at the number of people who early in the season. I was like, ah, man, they're gonna suck. And then as the season has gone on, I've just been so impressed with how their games come on. And it's been fun to watch. Before we start, uh, into the episode specifically, would you have been able to keep up with this crew? Had you gone out for season 50, haven't played, uh, for over a decade. Well, over a decade, probably, two decades. I've been playing for 20 years. Yes. Would you be able to keep up with this new style of gameplay? All the twisted turns. of that, would you been able to wrap your head around all of it? Yeah, I'll share, absolutely. At the end of the day, I remember on the plane to Plow, I wrote a blank check to myself for a million dollars and I put it in my wallet. And I remember going out and jumping out of the boat for our first challenge was just to race to shore. I won the first immunity and I remember that day being like, everybody's going to be so smart and so good. And I was 20 years old and I remember being so blown away with how dumb so many people were. That was my experience on token chains. I was like, I have my work cut out for me physically, everyone's going to be and then after like a couple of challenges, I was like, nope, I'm the best. Yeah, that's going to be good. I'm not worried about it. I feel, physically I feel as good as I felt when I was in my 20s, Ethan, Zahn got me into marathoning and running races for charity back in 2008 or 2009. I went to Africa with him and we've gotten really close friends and I've been running marathon ever since. So I feel like the swimming and the running and the challenges are always my strong suit. So I would have loved, I mean anything in the water and so Fiji has so many good water challenges swimming. So I'd have loved that. Right. Well, it's a shame, but our fingers are crossed that we get to see you on a future season, season 16 maybe 55. Oh, interesting. I hope they keep going and honestly, I think I would, I mean, at this point I would say, I would say yes. I think I'd say yes if they wanted me back. I would say the answer and I don't know, I've been on, I've done very few interviews over the years and I haven't done anything since COVID and I had always said I would be a no, that I, if somebody called and I think, yeah, I think I'm at a point in my life where it'd be fun. I'm actually the age that Tom was when he won our season. So right now, so I feel like, yeah, I feel like, okay, I have a couple more good years left in me where I can be a beast in the challenges. Yeah. And I have something to prove to, you know, you hear that, Jeff? Ian's ready. Ian's ready. And I, you know, this mustache is new, but I might, it's very cool. I couldn't grow a mustache the first time I was on the beach. So I feel like maybe that would have to go. A rebrand. Let's get into it. Episode 10. We had a little bit of a wild episode last week and Emily and Devons on the wrong side of the vote as they come back to camp. What did you think about their approaches because they were both a little bit different? Emily kind of was begging for forgiveness and saying, hey, I had to. Justifying what she did and Devons was, Devons was just like, that's the way it works. You tried to deceive me. I tried to deceive you. It's a survivor. Yeah. Like, I, I don't know, which is better, honestly, that's what I'm asking is, is one approach better than the other? Does it depend on the person? Cause Devons has kind of been unapologetic all season long where I'm feeling not cringe for that. I'm like, oh, is that, shouldn't you just be like more apologetic and just be like, oh, I'm sorry. This is why I make excuses and lie more. And he's just like, nope. I did what I did and you can deal with it even though I'm on the bottom now. He is on my list, first of all, he was on my cringe list for the first couple of episodes. And I was just like, God, I would hate playing with this guy. You know, and I was trying to think who he reminded me of on our season and really he doesn't really have an analog on our season. But you know, he early in the game, I was just like, he talks so much and there's like so many changes and the groundship's underfoot. And for me, certainty is so important. So you know, it's about three people. Winning survive is about three people. You need two rock silence, rider dies. And then anybody else can shift in and out of that game. And he and Emily both represent shape shifters where things can change really quickly. So I hate those games. I hate when people play those games. I think that fans love watching that because you know, it's just so interesting. I would, I think they came for, they came back to camp with with kind of different approaches and both approaches in my opinion really suck. Like I just as another player, I would have, I would have, I would have really been kind of in cut the bullshit mode. I think I like Devon's game exponentially more than I like Emily's game. I think as this, in fact, I think this episode crystallizes him, you know, I think he knew that this was a historic moment because he's such a fan of the game. And for him to step out the way that he did, you know, and you know, to do it with his kids in mind and just to kind of really unabashedly jump in, I love, I love to the chance, I love kind of being willing to go all the way to the edge. And I just feel like Emily's game, she really just says everything to everybody and hopes that it falls the way that she wants it to. And I think, hey, I think that's a very dangerous way to play. It's, I think it's a scared way to play. I'm sure she's a lovely person. I don't know her, but I, that game is for somebody who would want to be in the kind of pole position of controlling the game, having an Emily is a, is a, is a, is a real pain in the ass. Can I say ass on the bottom? Yeah, you can. All right. Ass. There. Now you're not the only one. Do you think that the people, all the people there are understanding that Emily is telling everything to everybody or do it like because people are still telling her things? Yeah. That's a great question. I think it's a, it's a question of the edit versus what's actually happening on the beach. I mean, you know this that there's so many more dynamics that are happening on the ground that, then, then what are coming through to the fans, just because there's, it's impossible to capture all the moments and, and this was, I mean, when I played, we were still playing 30, 39 days. So those moments had even more time to marinate. So you almost got even less of a snapshot. I feel like now you get more of a snapshot of what's actually happening, but they have to. I mean, you know, who did this in our season was Kobe, he's a hairdresser. He would say a lot to a lot of different people and we would, you know, you just knew that his time was coming for one reason or another. And I think that, I mean, I'm going to look like an idiot if she ends up winning the season, but I think that, you know, her time is coming. It was clear to me that Steph's time was coming, frankly. And, you know, I played with her for that same reason a long time. No, she just started to pull the Emily on the past two episodes, right? She just started to start throwing names around that were her ride or dies and it was like, you just can't do that. You know, you get yourself into a place where you start to, there starts to be a fracture kind of in the ground under your feet. And once that happens, sometimes it's really hard to put the genie back in the bottle. Yeah. I also think the problem, what happened was, and this is common in Survivor, you give the information to the wrong person. Yes. To the person who you think is with you. Yeah. This happened on this episode a bunch of times to everybody. And so, and I was watching it as a, and it's been happening. It's kind of been the downfall of a lot of people this season is going to someone. I don't know if it's because of these pregame alliances that have been built up and they're more solid. I don't know if it's because they're just like not reading the room correctly, whatever it is. This has been happening a lot this season is somebody is seemingly safe, goes to tell somebody the plan that somebody that, for whatever reason, the person delivering the information thought was with them is absolutely not, and flips it on its head and that person goes home. I, you know, I want, I'm interested to hear what you all think because pregame alliances were not a thing when I played. They did not start happening until we almost kind of went on heroes versus, we really almost did. And it would have been a great one. But I wasn't even solid. It was because I would have never talked to any of you and didn't talk to any of you until, like, until the beach. So I had to sit down with Sandra in the airport for 10 minutes. I had to sit down with Rupert. I had to sit down with you. We were all for there. It was never mentioned again. Yeah. Right. My question though is, is with all the twists and turns, do you think that pregame alliances still matter? I think A, that's why there is twist and turns to a certain degree. Try to break that up. I know that. Break that up and nullify it. Pregame alliances do matter. I believe that the winner isn't always a pre-gamer. I think now everybody's pre-gaming some. Like you're getting phone calls to what degree, to what degree are you initiating to what degree are you putting your faith and trust in whatever you're agreeing to on the phone. All of those, it's just you're playing the game for way, way longer. Yeah. And we're not getting to see it materializes fans. But it definitely does affect and shape the way the game moves. This game would move totally different if nobody had talked beforehand. I don't know if it would be positive or a negative or what, but I do believe that it shapes the game. Does it? determine the outcome. No, not always, but it does definitely shape because even if you're not on the same tribe, but people are aware that you talked before or something because it's the same thing. It's the he said she said that game goes via phone. I'll call you and be like, Ian, I just heard from somebody who I heard from somebody that you're going to be so-and-so's target if you're on the same and then all of a sudden that's in your head and who knows what's true. It's the same. It's the game is so I think that by the time you hit the beach you already have these preconceived notions and you have this information and not all of it's correct and then you adjust and play accordingly and even some of it's just looming in the back of your mind like maybe I can figure it out, maybe not. There was a famous pro cyclist who said that even if 99% of doping was eradicated from the sport, if it's not fully eradicated, it will still have an effect on the sport itself. Yeah. In that out of 200 guys if two or three are doping and they're ramping the pace up on certain moments, they're able to do certain things. Other people are having to react to that, it's still shaping the race. So you're saying that pre-game alliances are a lot like doping. No, it totally. If it's in the contract that you're not supposed to pre-game then yes. Totally, man. It's breaking the rules in my opinion. I don't know if it's the contract anymore. I haven't seen a contract for a while. But if it's in the contract then yeah, it is against you. It seems silly to me because the show is for the fans and so I think if you love the game, it feels to me there are people when I watch that I immediately respect. If I were to play again, I would play with them and there are other people that I'm like I would not play with them as far as I can throw them. If you speak in the third person, there is no chance I'm going to play the game with you. It's just never ever going to happen. With me? No, no, no, no. You're out on Rizzo. Oh my gosh, I'm so out on Rizzo. Oh man, I love him. I'm so out on Rizzo. Yeah, not for me. In Devons, Devons I think is spoken in the third person. I kept notes for a while that I lost track but yeah. Yeah, he does it for me. If you're a castage, go to the third person guy. Coach is a third person guy. Not a guy I would play with. Again, I'm sure all cool people and I'm sure I'd like them outside of the game but I probably would not play with it. Okay, so note to you. Why, Riley, would you, are you a Rizzo guy? Or sorry, a Riz God guy? I actually love Rizzo. You know, the first little taste we got of him, I was like, oh man, I'm not going to be able to stand this guy. Yeah. And then he just won me over the way he has so many people. I mean, it's just like Colby, you know, it's like, I can't stand him. And then three days later, you're like, actually, like, I think I'm going to play with Rizzo. Yeah, right. That's fair. I can see that. You know, there might be a little bit of projection here too because he's he's young in the way that I was young when I played. And you know, there's so much about the world I didn't know about when I played. And I can see that in him is that he's just a he's a young guy that's playing amongst adults. And that that can be a hard hard place to be. Frankly, I remember it was hard for me. And I didn't even know why at that time. I was kind of completely, you know, I had no sense of orientation of some of those kind of adult dynamics that take place on the beach. And I feel like I can see that in him. So it might be a little projection for me too. I'm now I'm in my 40s. It's a whole different, whole different ballgame. I think the other thing with Rizzo for me is that I just love a good bit. And I think he's self-aware that the Rizgod stuff is actually a bit. He's not like yeah, yeah, we'll have to ask him more about it once he once we get an exit interview with him. Yeah, but I don't think he's like see I don't he's not like I'm actually Rizgod and I'm the best. He's like this is a joke. So yeah, I like it. And the other thing he has a lot of knowledge of is key. I mean, even I think in this episode or maybe it was last episode when Jeff participated in the challenge. I think it was last episode. And and you know, I think Jeff mentioned like the survivor's favorite newscaster. He was able to rattle off the other newscaster that was on the survivor in that moment. That was an episode. That can be valued. Was this one? Yeah, that can be super valuable. But he played with her and also is Rick Devon's survivor's favorite newscaster? That's it's up for debate. It's up for debate. It's not. Yeah. So then I have something to say. If only we had a venue to debate the points of fandom for all the fans. One day we'll come up with audio than you. Yeah. That's also a comment. If you get on YouTube or whatever, it would have a YouTube channel I'm assuming. Like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. That does help us out. We have a goal of hitting 15,000 subscribers. If you're listening to this, why not subscribe? Thanks for that Ian. You'll get more accounts and subscribe from those too. Yes. Rizzo, I think for me, when I'm watching it, probably the same kind of annoys me in the same way that a teenager at a park would annoy me where I'm just like, you know, you don't belong right here. Go to your place. But then also in the game, I feel like I would work with Rizzo. I think like he shows some loyalty. He shows some chops. He can be quiet about a secret. I feel like I wouldn't have a second. Can he be quiet about a secret? We haven't, I don't think we've actually seen yet. If he's loyal to you. Yeah, right. If he's loyal to you, keep a secret. I don't think he's had his devins moment yet where I think devins had a redemption moment on this episode. Like I think that this, you know, I think that he, he was kind of oh, there's a good, I don't know, you can overplay and you can underplay the show, right? In the game. And I think he overplayed early in the season because he was maybe just so excited. He seems like a very excited guy. Loves the game. Loves just the lore of the show. And I think he's settled, devins settled in on this episode into kind of just the right, the sweet spot of playing where it's like he's not overdoing it. Yeah, he's not underdoing it. He's just fun to watch. And maybe Rizzo have that moment too. I'm crossing my fingers for you, Riley, because I know how much you love him. He loved the Riz God. Here we go. I do, I think that Rizzo just to like put a point on this, I do think his problem is that he reads actually even younger than he is, you know, like tells him he's called him a teenager. He's 25. He was 25 years younger. He reads even younger. And so it's like hard to be like, he's older than others. Yeah. Oh, I'm going to get to the end, or like if he gets the end, a jury's going to be like, oh, I actually really respect him and want to give him the now two million dollars and title of Soul Survivor because I just like respect this gameplay so much. He's like kind of too big of a goofball for that. Right. Well, there has to be some gravitas at one moment or another where people know that you're not just self-aware enough, but that you've been that you have been pulling the strings along the way. And the people who do that usually get respect votes. And I was actually, I remember on my season, I don't think had I played have I had I been playing now, that's a dynamic. I would have recognized that I didn't recognize when I was playing that that you can go on to respect votes by just letting people in and enough that you fully understand what's happening and that you're responsible for how things are going. I was responsible for things how things were going on my season without fully understanding the power that I was wielding. And as you as at an older age, I think you have the ability to kind of take all that in. And if he does that, if he demonstrates that ability, I think all of a sudden, you know, he changes in terms of how he's viewed as a player. Otherwise, I think you can get into a place where you're just viewed it as being pretty lucky or like likable enough, right, as opposed to being like a true baller. Yeah, I don't think he can, I honestly don't think he can win. You don't think it win. I don't think he can win. No, I don't think he can. I think there's another factor at play here is that. And we thought this episode specifically Aubrey losing in the finals and being devastated by Michelle winning the last one of the time she played. I think that that is factored into people's votes. Like how long has this person been emotionally and mentally tortured by the game of survivor deserve it this time? They come back after getting their heart broken and being devastated and vanishing from the community to a certain degree to come back. And I think that Aubrey has a story like that. Jonathan to a little bit has a story like that. So I think that you're looking down these people and you're like Rick Devons who ended up losing edge of extinction where a guy came back after getting voted out very, very early to win the whole thing like Devons came out after getting voted on. He did, but not as early. And so you see you're seeing people like this where you're like, okay, they have had their heart crush and they've been living with that heartbreak for how long I think Rizzo is just too fresh. Nobody is aware of his heartbreak with the show. He's not showing anything that he was heartbroken over 49. and I think that that does play a factor. If I'm sitting on the jury and I'm watching somebody and somebody's like, I fought back, I came back after I swore I would never come back because it hurt too bad to lose. And now I'm here again. - I feel that so deeply. I mean, is I think back all the time that I haven't played again and how it ended for me on my season, I very much feel that. I feel like there's a feeling of wanting that redemption. There's also a feeling of being like, I don't know, I had a good run. But at the same time, to get so close and to not get it is really crappy. It's a really good feeling. - So I think that could be powerful for someone if they're sitting at the final three. - Yes, especially if there are other people on the jury who have also felt that. - Which is pretty much everybody. - Yeah, exactly. I can't say enough by the way, good stuff about Jonathan. I just love that guy. I've never met him. I just think he's such a good dude. I think he'd be so fun to play with. I think he's a feast in the challenges. I've never seen anybody that dominant so far. And I know he doesn't necessarily have the same individual immunity record that some others do. But I just, I think he's a cool dude. I like him. I like Ozzie too. I've never met Ozzie, but I've always liked this game. So what is it that draws you to Jonathan so much? - I think you can get a really far away in this game and frankly in life by being a decent person and by playing it to a degree straight. And I think that I felt this way about Joe. His Joe was on my list early in the season where I was like, "Man, this guy's gonna be so boring to watch." But then as the game goes on, I'm like, "Man, he's so fun to watch." And such a good dude. Now that I'm a dad, he's seen another dad play and you know, feel the way he talked about his kids in this episode in a way that I've really identified with. I think you can get a long way by just being a person that everybody can depend on to be like a decent person. And then with just enough gameplay to understand where you need to go in order to make sure the pieces fall your way. I think Siri to a large extent is this way too. You know, I think by and large, they're listeners. They kind of take it all in. I always said the key to winning survivor. Even right after I played the key to winning survivor is to like shut up. And then when somebody messes up, very quietly pointed out to everybody else. That's like the whole game, right? It's just like make sure when somebody messes up that everybody else knows about it. And I think that does two things. I think it puts the vote on somebody else and it keeps the vote away from you, which is just as important in the game. I think people are always like, how do we get to who we vote out? But if you notice, the really great players, they insulate themselves with like, at least like a vote deep, right? Where they're never, you don't ever hear their names because they've insulated themselves with a layer of people around them. And I think that is the result of watching what's happening and very quietly kind of making sure that you're, that people know who like the kind of mess ups are and then just quietly pointing that out. So I think Jonathan does that well. I think Siri is a master at it. I think Ozzie, sorry, excuse me. And I think Ozzie is, it was not good at it earlier in his career with the show but has gotten better at it. I think you see it on this episode. - Yeah, he does talk about that. Speaking of Joe, we get Rick telling everyone that his idol is fake, the one that he saved, pretty much saved himself with a couple weeks ago. Is that a good move or a bad move by Rick to just, 'cause I understand his idea was, I'm gonna place myself on the bottom, be easy, then nobody has to question. Also, I take the target off my back by being a sitting duck. - Not to skip ahead here a bit, but I do think if we kind of read how tribal council went down, this was gonna be a very straightforward death and so, right? It was gonna be dead. - Despite all the scrambling, he was like, it was basically gonna be like nine to one. - Yeah, so it seemed that way. - Maybe he would have at least wanted to have something to bluff with again, I don't know. Part of me is like. - I feel like I would have held onto it. If I could have held onto it as Devon's in that moment, I feel like I would have kept bluffing with it. And then like I still have that idol. - Yeah. - Like I'm definitely playing it tonight. Like who knows? - Like I don't know. - Like I do think that Devon's in danger of, and maybe already has like kind of drawn dead where it's like he's, you know, he's like chaos turns to like antics that is kind of the point we're making earlier. - Unnecessary. - Unnecessary and like hard. Like makes it the hard view to earn actual respect at the end, right? - Yeah. - To get those votes. - When it's unnecessary and just for fun or at someone else's expense or to giggle, that rubs jury the wrong way oftentimes. I think his love and exuberance for the game is a positive. People will see that and be like, "Oh, I love that he loves this." But to the point of decepting just because it's funny, you can't go into in front of a jury and be like, there was no reason I just was being silly. - Yeah. - And I think at some point the best story than that. - Yeah. - Yeah. - People are gonna be sitting there and being like, you were like annoying to play with. And I'm just back in a room for somebody who is like annoyed by out there. - I just didn't have fun. Like it just wasn't fun. Like we spend a lot of time here. - He was fun for Devons. He's having a time of his life. Everyone else is like, man. - Yeah. I can't tell if he doesn't care if he cares or not. You know, really, and I think that there's no more fun person to watch play this game than somebody with their back against the wall. Like that's the most fun person to watch on the show. And one of the things I love about the new show, like the newer seasons that I think the older seasons didn't have is in the older season, that would have been a Devons vote. Like that, it would have been it. Like it was almost like it was locked. Once you had, once you had, once you're on the bottom it was very, very difficult to switch it up in the old school. Because there just wasn't, there weren't enough chances to get people back to your side. And I think early in the show, those voting blocks were really tight because you knew that if you kept your voting block tight that you could pick off the weaker members early and that it would just be you left with four or five people and then you take your chances, right? Then you depend on your right or die. And what I love about the new school is that it gives players like Devons a second and a third and maybe even a fourth shot to get there. But I think you all are right that it makes it very difficult to win. And I think that, like this is one of the things I love about the show that reminds me so much of life. It's the same thing. If you're just there to have a good time it's somebody else's expense. You're not going to make many friends in real life either. And so this is one of the many ways I see a survivor mirroring real life where it's hard to win at life if you're just there to get a giggle at somebody else's expense. So I think the same rules apply for the show. I think he can rescue it. I think he earned a lot of respect from people tonight by being willing to go home to and then up the ante. You could see people like good job. They add a boy to him at the tribal council and it's all about what he does with that, in my opinion. If that's capital, social capital that he could use, but if he squanders it, he's going to be gone soon, I think. He's not going to last. He has an idol that everybody knows about. They handed that over to him in public. So they have to flush another idol. They got a flush. Secondly, he's the one that doubled the prize money. If he gets to the end, that's what he's resting everything on is I was the one willing to put my neck on the line to even bump it to two million. You have no, I should be, that should be mine. But he articulated why it wasn't even him putting his neck on the line, because he was like, well, my other option is play shot in dark, which is one in six. This is going to, and it comes with all these great rewards as well, so we can claim nobody can, that's nobody's move. Like nobody can steal that from him. It's not like it's not like they can be like, oh, well, this, it only happened because you were going to go, like they can justify that a little bit, but nobody else can take it from him. So it's not, I don't think it's going to matter. If there was a thing that he did where somebody on the tree was like, actually, that was me, that looks bad. But if he's like, I had the knowledge that it was probably me and mathematically, it made more sense to flip the beast coin, like, of sure, that all, but that's all still devins. Yeah, yeah. He can't like build his whole case on this move. Like this move doesn't, it's not enough, I agree with you. But I think he can start to build a case with this move, but I don't think he's going to change his stripes at this point. I think he's kind of reveling in being like the court jester on the season. And I'm trying to get him out. Yeah. I think this is enough to win jury votes. I think having input the coin, double the money, it's all there for everybody. Now I'm target number one, because I did that and nobody, I'm still made it to the end. That's enough. I think for me, I'm not going to, I don't know what it would take to get him to the end, or how he's going to act moving forward. But in this moment, I'm going to say that. of time watching this, if I'm a player, I need to get Rick Devon's out because I can't sit next to him at the end because he had at least added a million dollars to that pot by taking that risk. - I have to tell you, so there's not a lot of players left who I don't feel that about. Like if I'm thinking through the people who are left, I think they did the right thing by getting Stephanie out. We can talk about that. But there are not a lot of players left that I'm like, "Man, I don't want to sit next to them on the jury." We're getting to that part where we're starting to see a lot of good players. There's a lot of good people right now that are playing. And like I said, the people that I didn't think were very good early on are really come on strong and I've just gained a ton of respect for. So I'm excited to see how it shakes out. - Well, I don't want to dwell on this too long 'cause we want to go to the auction, but I just wanted to point it out that after Rick tells everybody his idol's fake, Joe knew it. He fucking hates deception and Rick has to go. - You can see it. - You can see it in his eyes. (laughing) - He hates deception at all. - He knows that matter. - You are on the show, man. - Yes, stop lying to people about stuff. - So it's great, it's so important to have that person on the show though. - You want that person on the show. - It is, you have to have the person that's just like, are you lying? - Wait, are you lying? - Oh! - And then they're always taking a back. They're always surprised at others. Like, how could you do that? - And then they get caught lying. And they're like, no, but I had to. I did it the way that you can do it. But you-- - That's the coach move. That's how-- - Yeah, that's the coach's entire game right there. - And he knows it, which is so good. It's the auction. Auctions back, we get to see the auction. - We're not auctioned on Palau, I cannot remember. - Yes. Okay. - There was an auction on Palau. And I had a, you're a super stinking moment with Jeff, because I was. And, but yeah, we had an auction. And I remember there were, same time a deal where there was some chaos involved. Like, you could pay, but you had to put money down. And there were, there was one that was full of bat wings that you could buy. And somebody bought it, I remember who got it. I remember I won a beer. I split a burger with somebody. And there was also a balloon. That was our gross thing on that season. And I personally, the big secret for me was I loved, every time we had a balloon challenge, I was like, bring it on, it's like eating eggs. And so I, I think I got those two. - It's like a hard boiled egg with the flavor of 10 hard boiled eggs and one hard boiled egg. So it's very eggy flavor. - Yes, yes, with like slight chicken wing. - Yeah. - 'Cause it is, yeah, but crunchy, 'cause there's bones. - 'Cause there's bones in it. - Yeah. - Yeah. - So, I mean, gross, but like when you're hungry. - Yeah. - So. - No sea slug though. - No, the sea slug looked. - Actually, this is where I thought Aubrey became a total baller, by the way. Like I was sleeping on her and she just like, this is where I was just like a total assassin. Like she said she psycho a couple times this season. We're like, are you though? And I love her. - I love it. I can't wait to see how this, she turns out. Because I think she's got game. I just loved it. I love that move. - Dancing around eating it. She didn't even have to eat it. She was the one who paid for the thing. And then she was like, I'm gonna eat these too. And she's eating them and dancing around and showing everybody and does it in record time. And seems to enjoy every moment of it. I was like, that's crazy. - Baller. - That's such a baller, man. - His psycho. And last week during the challenge, did she lick the thing as she was real in it? And she just sticking her tongue out. - Oh, I didn't see that. - Yeah, I mean, she was like, I'm psycho. And then I think she just stuck her tongue out and then lost immediately. But I was like, if she would have licked that, that would have been fucking psycho. - Totally. I start to be like, I'd be like, oh man, don't mess with her. - Yeah, she doesn't get sick from licking that thing. Yeah. But future contestants, if you want to prove that you're psycho, lick some germ-covered shit just because you can't lick. Follow. - I'm psycho with a lick. - Yeah. - Yeah. - God, I loved watching Jeff participate in the challenge. It was last week. They're so fun. - It wasn't good at it. - But no, that's what I was so great. I was like, man, I'd love to see him spend the night on the beach too. Now while we're here. - That's the next, maybe next season, hopefully. As that challenge last week was teeing up, I was like, oh, this is the perfect challenge that they could tip the scales without fan seeing in Jeff's favor by giving him less weight. - Yes, but it didn't seem to. - It didn't seem to, yeah. - No, 'cause he even, you know, he seems like a strong guy. And every time I've hung out with him in person, I've been, you know, he's like in great shape. But I have to tell you that challenge. I know where that challenge, that is not what I, I'm usually great at those types of challenges and that was one I would not have liked. It does not seem. It's like strength to weight ratio. You know, it's just. - It's not even straight to weight ratio. It's also the palms of your hands, the skin looks off of them. - Yeah, yeah. - 'Cause if you've got more weight, so that's the thing I think, they did that on blood versus water. I sat out in eighth watching it, but everybody over 180 pounds, the palms of their hands, were wide open and everybody who's lighter didn't, because they don't have that same pressure spinning against their skin of the palm of their hands. - Yeah. - So, auctions happening. You like the chaos and comfort stuff? - Yeah, of course. Yeah, I love, I mean, the auctions always fun. You know, there's gonna be letters from home. You know, there's gonna be food that, you know, people aren't as in, aren't in as bad shape as they were when I played by this time. And so, you know, lot less hunting going on, a lot less like gathering going on. So much more of the game when I played was about finding food. So much of the game, so much of our time was spent, my time was spent finding food. So, I feel like in the old school, I felt like when you got to this, you were already down like 20 or 30 pounds. And, you know, they just were in, you were really desperate at this point. It was just not- - Yeah, didn't seem like anybody was so desperate. Nobody was spending all 500 on one item, which I expected, like auction items were stopping it, like $100, $780, $90, $160 for a half a PB and J, whatever. It's like the first thing, the onions, rings and fries. That was fun. - It was talking delicious. I would have been, I would have spent 500, I would have spent 500 on the onion rings and fries. - I was thinking the same thing, Tyson. I would have spent all 500 immediately 'cause I was scared of the chaos as well. - Well, I would have just been like, I know that's good, fries and onion rings. I know that's gonna feel me up. It's nice and greasy and fatty and all of that stuff. I'm just gonna- - I would think about that. - I'm just firing all of it. Like, I mean, obviously, I wouldn't have needed to go to 500, I would just kept outbidding 'til somebody stopped, but I'm taking the first thing that fills me up, that is delicious. - Yes, agree. - I would feel me up. - I'm not spending on the show. - And also, people don't know this, but like, it's usually been sitting for a little bit. It might be a cooler, but it's not gonna be as cold as you want. It's gonna be like this, it's just not like- - They do better at that now. - Do they do better? - Yeah, that's good. - I think once people started complaining about how the pizza was so disgusting 'cause it'd been sitting out forever, they started getting stuff really fresh. - Yeah, that's cool. I liked, I remember in ours, I looked at somebody, I don't remember who it was. It might have been Steph, and I was like, you wanna go haves these on this, and we'll both fit it up and take it. And I wanted somebody to do that type of stuff, like I liked that, but I always loved the auction. And I loved the chaos, and I really loved the, what happened when Jimmy walked in. 'Cause I think everybody was just uncertain as to what was gonna happen next and that through the entire access off-kilter. - So, Rizzo, as you predicted, Riley, flipping the fuck out that Mr. Beast is there. Just so pumped, you could see, and- - Sorry. - Sorry, he doesn't know who he is. - Not at all, not at all. - Sorry, he had the best line of the entire challenge so she was like, I'm not here for carrots. - Yeah. - They're like, you wanna sit at the carrot place? - I didn't think that was a weird bid for Jonathan to go after the carrots in the US. There was crackers too, but it was a weird purchase. Compared to the fries. - Rizzo was so gentle, he's such a Gen Zier like, he might be Jen off, what a generation is he? I think he's Gen Z, and I think you're right. I think Surrey was like, I don't know, I don't really care. - And that's what I think is, honestly, we've had a lot of celebrities on this season. We have all that stuff. The problem is, not everybody knows these people, like even me, they're like, I wouldn't have known the country guy, I know Billy Eilish. Yeah, and I don't, but she's not there, but she's not there. Jimmy Fallon, of course. - Jimmy Fallon, yeah. - Mr. Beast, if this was two years ago, I wouldn't have known. I only know him now because he has a show on Amazon, And because I knew this was coming, like those are the or the only two, like I've ever seen a Mr. Beast video, I don't know anything about that. I would have, two years ago, I would have been completely unaware. - Yeah. - But I mean, maybe that's good TV is watching Surrey either not care that he's there or have no idea who he is. - It was one of those ways. - Because she didn't react. - It had an enormous impact on the game. It really was a cool. The introduction of what he introduced was extraordinarily cool, I thought. - Yeah, anything else from the auction that stood out before we go straight to the immunity challenge. I also liked that twist. I like it, so we get sick, everybody's barf and people are overeating. - I feel like it should have been a big like, you guys swim like a long distance type. - Yeah, get them to the barf and then you run. - Yeah, yeah, so no, this should have been, yeah. They should have had to eat something like, be like you got to swim to this barge and then you got to eat a whole chocolate cake. And then like add more eating too. (laughing) - Do it with a whole mom. - Just like, just start the challenge. You have to eat a bowl of vanilla pudding. Then you have to eat, yeah. Then you, did you say a beer mile? - A beer mile? - Yeah, or a donut mile. - A donut mile? - Yeah, donut run, whatever. It's just like, each station is a new thing until, there's like, why did you feed us at the auction only to have more of it at the challenge? Come on, that'd be crazy. - That feeling is so real though, that I can identify with that. I remember when I won the car, they had a big spread for us and Tom and I ate. And then I threw up three times. I would just go eat and then throw up and then come back and eat more and then throw up 'cause your body so desperately wants the feeling, your brain wants the feeling of eating and feeling like you're putting, and so I just kept doing it because yeah, at that point I probably lost 40 or 50 pounds. I was just desperate for food. So I can identify with that. But if they would've put me on a challenge right after that, I would've probably passed out. - Oh man, it missed opportunity. - Totally missed opportunity. - I like going straight from auction to challenge, but make a move from that. Even to the gross eating challenge, be like we're moving from the auction directly to the gross eating challenge. - It didn't show me, it didn't show me. I loved it. - Sassy Jeff would've done it. - Sassy Jeff. - Yeah, also they get the letters. What if somebody hadn't have paid the $20? Would nobody have gotten the letters? - They must've been tipped off 'cause I noticed that Cere had exactly $20 left. She paid $180 for the blanket, $20 for the toothpaste and mouthwash, and then $280 for the charcuterie board. She literally spent $480. - I also thought it was absurd. That Cere bought a blanket first. And then she had a very poor choice. - I thought it was a very poor choice. - Like I was like, she's choosing non-food items for what purpose is she full from the rice 'cause she made everybody overcooked rice last time. Or is she not caring? Or is this more important to her? - Well, she got more charcuterie board than she needed in the end. - Yeah, she did. - But I think she locked out. - Yeah. - Okay, I think she did. - You know what it, yeah. - I'm wondering if the goal was just for somebody to overspend and tend to not have the $20. And then they were hoping that somebody would get all the way to the five summaries. And then somebody would have to step in and save them or help them or that you wouldn't get the letters. And I'm wondering if that just didn't go the way they wanted it to. - No, they want the letters. They want the letters there. They want letters. - The letters are huge. Maybe they were tipped off and saved your 20s. - So, maybe. Oh yeah, I don't know that they were tipped off, but awesome. - I just don't know what happened. Like if she had had no money, or if they could give her $20. - Somebody would have given her $20. - Yeah. - What if they didn't have enough between all of them? You know, if everybody just-- - If Jeff would have made it happen or if it would have been the same thing. - Yeah, I think so. - So they'd find some way of doing it. - You know, this is the question I get the most. I'm sure you get it all the time too, is how much of it is staged and how much of it is real. And I feel very strongly that like, at least in my season and that so much, like all of it is real. The only time they really turned the cameras off is when they're miking you for tribal council and for challenges and the safety walkthroughs. So people say like, when did they stop and give you a cheeseburger? And obviously that never happened when I was on the show. And so I really love that they've tried to preserve that over the years to the extent that it's possible just because it does give the show a lot of credibility that I think other reality TV shows don't have. And I think that, by and large, it probably has a lot to do with Jeff 'cause I think he knows that that's what makes the show people come back for it. But I don't know, maybe it's changed. You guys can tell me, but that was my experience. - Should I just keep my mouth shut? (laughing) - I think it's mostly real. When people ask me, I say it's mostly real. But I think if you're saying it's 100% real, your observation is off. - The only time there's subtle teas. I think there's subtle teas that are read by some and not by all, and also can be misinterpreted. But there are. - I always said that the most valuable part of the show was listening to how producers were asking you questions and you're one-on-ones, like those were. That was giving you soul. While they had never said anything, the way they were asking questions was so extraordinarily valuable to the gameplay. I wish there was some way to have a camera on them too, because that to me was always the area where I think there was a lot of information to be garnered that you weren't getting all the places. - Do you have like an example of the kind of thing you're talking about? When we lost our fire, our boat flipped over because Kobe didn't do what he was supposed to do and our boat flipped over and we lost our fire and it went to the bottom of the ocean. This is before safety swimmers too. That was something I noticed on this show is that there was a safety swimmer when coach got a cramp and I wanted to say that was something that we did not have safety swimmers. We just have people with cameras. And I almost drowned trying to get that frickin' flint back into the boat and I finally got it. And I was in the water for probably two hours and finally got it. And but it took us a couple times going out and producers were always like, where are you gonna look next? Do you think you're gonna look out by the, you know, like they wanted us to get the flint, right? Really wanted us to find it. And I don't think that they gave anything away and nothing on them, I just think that they, you know, like for example, we know that they want the letters. There's no way they're gonna get through this thing without getting the letters because the letters is great TV and they want people to hear from their families just because they wanna see the reactions. And I understand that. Is the letters great TV? Are the letters great TV? I think it depends on the person. (laughing) - Okay, I always feel bad for people when like some people are like, man, I can't wait to get letters. I'll give you, actually, I'm a good example 'cause we could have bought letters on my season and I was like, nah, no big deal. I didn't have anybody like my parents, but they all, you know, I wasn't attached to anybody. I didn't have kids, I didn't have a wife. So they were like, oh, it's a hundred dollars. I don't remember how much chef said it was gonna be for letters and I did not take it. I was like, I'd rather eat. I'd just had a stage in my life where, you know, I knew my parents loved me and I, you know. I've only gone three weeks, it was different, but now I think it would be different because I think, you know, I would end nations for my children and so to hear from them would be great. So yes, I think it can be good TV. - Okay, yeah, I mean, people were touched and reading the letters and I, on all those, I was like, oh, I don't think I ever had to read a letter. We got our letters after the show. I don't think I ever got a letter on camera, but I can imagine I'm being like, can I read it out loud? Here's the camera, can you read it again? Let me, can you read it one more time? Can you read it one more time? - You have to read it back, don't stutter. I know, just read it perfectly. That line specifically. - Did you cry a little more? - Yeah, they wouldn't enjoy it with that. They just, I don't need you with that. They don't have to do that. - They don't have to do that. - The hardest thing for me was I remember, I lost a challenge where I lost, it was actually ended up being good for me because it allowed me to make a big move in the game, but I lost a challenge with your loved ones, where your loved ones would come and visit. And they got to go on a boat and swim with dolphins with their loved ones and it turns out my dad had come, but was on the boat waiting, but I knew he was out there, but couldn't see him. And that was actually way harder than any letter or anything, because we were deep into the game. It was good because when they left, it was a good time to make the move. That, I remember that being really difficult. - Yeah, my brother on token jeans, he flew out for the family visit, but I'd already been eliminated. But they had, it was like that's where four day travels, so they had to start going. So he showed up and I could see, so they'd take you into town from the jury to go eat and restaurants and do day trips and stuff, and I could see another convoy of vehicles moving around town and stuff like that. I was like, my brother is in those vehicles, and they won't let me see him. And it was annoying because I know he's here. Let me, like, I'm at Ponderosa. He knows I'm not in the game, 'cause they were like, oh, it's ND. And I was like, yeah, but he already knows I'm not in the game by being here and knowing that I like he doesn't get to see me So it was very weird now. I do believe if that does happen They do allow you to see your loved one at ponderosa But there's a real kind of point of contact contention with me and and production in that moment where I was like He's right there and he made like the three-day trip to come out to Brazil And over Thanksgiving and you're not gonna let him and I visit like It was it was over Thanksgiving for us too. I remember that Letters are read everybody's crying everybody's now motivated to stay in the game longer and The scramble starts and at first you kind of think okay, it's gonna be a little straightforward here like people are targeting Aussie I think we had who was it Jonathan and Stephanie Throw out the game out to Aubrey and Devins Yeah, that was dumb. That was dumb move by Stephanie. It immediately gets back to Suri and then Suri reads The hell out of Stephanie Joe Joe's the one who brings it back. Oh, yeah, so they go to Joe. Joe ghost Joe He was righteous anger Yes, he goes and tells Suri and then Stephanie gets wind up. It's a whole thing. It's a whole mess To me this accurately depicts maybe for the first time in survivor history how almost every scramble feels as an individual in it I completely agree with that. I thought it was a really good way of capturing what it actually feels like and I think that This time it flipped. I don't know they kept saying it was because of mr. Beast and I don't really know Unknown that's what they kept saying right? Do I don't also know if that's accurate or not? I do believe that okay There's an unknown with mr. Beast. We do have to have a plan B in place That's what I think is the extent of what you can do so there was talking splitting those there's talking of a bunch of different scenarios And it kept bouncing around to you know to everybody. I thought it was interesting again how Suri trick Stephanie Yeah, on Trader Carter. Yeah, then Suri also Outplace Stephanie on snake in the grass and Then Stephanie gets got again by Suri. Yeah, I mean, I know Stephanie really well. Okay She's of all the players that are on the show. I know her the best this down this season um and She's just like Stephanie is a super strong competitor. You know, she is she played lacrosse at mom myth They let her wear a mom lacrosse her sweatshirt this season. Um, yeah, and so you can see like she and she's still got it She can still hang in there like she's she's a hell of a of a Challenge Beast and And you know, I was I thought I was the best swimmer on our season and I think Stephanie was was was right there with me She's a really good swimmer I think that she values having a tight Ratter die. I think that she that's like her style of gameplay and I think I think Suri just Has her number. I think Suri just outplayed her. I think she's Suri's got a very very strong, you know, headgame and I think Suri also saw an opportunity because Stephanie could get votes In the jury. I think she's a strong player and I think that Suri saw a chance and I think she took it masterfully I think it was a really good play on her part. She just same thing, right? She just Listened to where the person was messing up. She found out who was messing up and then she just very quietly pointed out Everybody and then she let everybody else do the talking. That's why she's so good at the game With Stephanie wasn't she with Ozzy was she not with Ozzy? I thought that they had a fairly close like old school Survivor relationship. So I think that that also can scare like if I'm Suri and I see that Stephanie is willing to turn on Ozzy Then is she not willing to then also target me? It would be my and then it's like okay I'm protecting Ozzy like if I'm in that group and that's happening I'm protecting Ozzy and going for the person I thought was with us. That isn't that's just like Survivor 101 almost. Yeah Anything else because we have a ton of tribal council to get to I would just kept thinking about how much I envy tips position in that moment because I think that to have the immunity idle and I just remember having a Unitle and feeling when that was getting ready to go is you're just like oh boy. Yes, it feels so good Easy street. It's just you feel so good because you're like no matter what happened Almost the feeling is you actually get to watch it you right you get to be a viewer while they're on the ground and That is a really fun feeling so I so many times as I was watching her and it would cut to her every once Watch you just being smiling. Yeah, which I just love yeah, I think you guys think that When the scramble is this chaotic, you know, and they're saying it's changing every 30 seconds But that kind of eventually leads people to a bit of a safer vote in this case Devons because you just you're not like occasionally we were getting some like well What if we split the votes who if you do this? But it's like is it even possible to make a complex plan like that when there's just so much happening? I think that most of the times it doesn't come back to that but it can like it does it does circle back a lot to the original idea That still is getting tossed around like what if we just did go back to Devons like that definitely happens I think especially when there's this much like discord as to like what is actually happening And I think that it's weird because you Even though everybody's like it's crazy. I don't know what's going on There's a part of most people that probably feel like they have some belief in what's gonna happen even though They may not and I think that I Think it probably Wasn't as chaotic as and we'll get we can we'll hear tomorrow from Stephanie, but I'm feeling like This is standard chaos for a chaotic vote I don't think ever I don't think every chaos is I don't think every vote is this chaotic But I think that every chaotic vote is this chaotic where things plan is shifting We're trying to figure something out. We don't want to do the easy thing right now because this is the time to make a move the others Side is kind of sniffing it out a little bit or also decided that timing is perfect to make a move and then it goes back And then you're just like I don't know like that This is this happens on survivor. We didn't have a lot of chaotic tribal councils when I played Just because our alliance was strong and we had I had like 25 days of being with the same tribe where we didn't have to face a vote I think that's it. We I think it's a record I think we won eight or nine challenges in a row and so we picked everybody off and then the merge was just Stephanie joining our tribe She was the last one left. Yeah, and it was because that tribe was so utterly weak That that I don't think it was necessarily because we were so strong But they just couldn't get their act together from a communication perspective So the chaos was all happening on that side of the ball They were just every time it was just they you know when I watched the show It was it was crazy to see how how poorly they communicated so we had the benefit of kind of having like summer camp You know, we had figured out how to eat we all liked each other for the most part. There was a few that didn't but You know, it was it was it was easy. So I didn't have many of those until the spotlight was on me You know towards the end and that's where things got got more chaotic and but I would say that People who again when you're backs against the wall I agreed you Riley that you know You know you want to revert to the thing that gets the spotlight off of you the fastest and whatever that is You're looking for the weak easy link and you're gonna try to drive and Energy to that person is fast Devon's in this moment as you saw Riley to your question there He saw the target could be off of him and he's just going with every single fucking thing. That's not him He does not give a shit. He's just like yep, I'm going for that Okay, I'm with you and then also admitting it like I know it's probably me is like it's nothing personal with anybody But like I'm just trying to be out here right now and I think that that's a like Nobody's gonna harbor a hard feelings against that Law check because it's true if it weren't true You'd be like ah, he's just but the fact that it is true Everybody's like yeah, we're giving you a free pass to move how you want Devons with nobody being upset at you because right we also understand that you understand that we talked about this earlier, but That that was the part of his game today It was a master's troke and that he laid it all out and he didn't wilt You know, he took every opportunity to make sure that the energy kept going back to the staff kept going back to staff Every chance he could get to say, and I'm being truthful, he took that as well. And so I thought, you know, his gameplay was really, really strong. I think it's just his delivery that he needs to clean up in order to get taken more seriously. Because the move of, like, just blowing it up, I always love, and I think that he was really well played. I think he did both, he did the whole, he had, he not done that and not played the coin. He would have been him, but he made it Stephanie. I mean, it was his decision that, I mean, he was the one that was responsible for Stephanie going all. At tribal, I love Rick blowing it up. I think that, like, I do also love that move, like I'm going to say all the things at tribal council and expose everybody. You have to be careful who you expose, you have to choose a side and decide who to target, which his target was that side with Stephanie and Jonathan there. I, a couple of things that stood out to me is that early on in the episode, he said he had to remember not to be angry. Then he got his letter and his wife was telling him to have fun and enjoy it. And then at tribal council, I think he did a really good job of not getting overly defensive to the point of animosity or tension with Stephanie and Jonathan, like he kept it light enough that he wasn't, he didn't seem like his blood was boiling or that he was, because I can feel myself in some of those contentious moments where, like, my blood starts to boil and me to start getting, like, ficed here and he kept that down, which I thought was powerful. And I liked it. Also, whether he's lying or not in that moment, if he's delivering the information first to people, even if he's been, even if the idea to target Ozzy was his idea, the fact that he's the first to say, nope, it was these guys. It doesn't matter. They're believing him, and that's where survivor also is very, very tricky, because it's not who delivers the truth. That matters. It's who delivers the information first that gets credited with telling the truth, whether or not it's real. Another area where survivor mirrors life and Rick was first to mark it with Jonathan and Stephanie targeting Ozzy. And the piece of information when he reveals that Stephanie has a steal of out, and she confirms it. Yes. And then she confirms it. Right. Well, and then you get the question from Tiffany. It's like, well, why would you, like, if you were actually trying to get out Devons, why would you tell them that you have an advantage? Yeah. And it's like, at that point, I was like, oh, man, Stephanie, like, even if she had made it out of this, let's say, you know, if the coin goes the other way or whatever it ended up being a Devons vote, like Stephanie kind of got put in a blender at this tribal council. Yeah. She did. And she kind of all aspects of her game were exposed. And they have been all seasoned like, you know, I've said before that she's a beast in challenges and she is. But unfortunately, either being on the losing side of a challenge or some bad luck, she's lost. She might have the record for most losses in challenges to be honest with you in terms of, you know, it's like Brett Farve has the most record for most in or touchdowns, but also the record for the most interceptions. You know, to confirm the steal the vote, I think was a very core move because she could have shifted Devons back onto his back heel. If she played it right, she could have got him back onto his heels. But she started to wilt because she got caught and she didn't have a good response whenever she got caught. And then you can see everybody start to move like the tide turned against her as soon as she, I think her maybe first or second response, people were like, wait a second. And then she wilted. And I've done that. I've been in that position and wilted. And it's not pretty because once you get caught, now all of a sudden, there's no heel to push anybody back to. You're in the gigs up. And it's weird in a game where everybody, you know, lying is part of it. When you get caught and a lie, people are still some, for some reason, like, there's some movement. We do it. We have this natural human response to it, like, how could you do that? Which is so fascinating. Even in the context, like on the B2Li, people were like, oh, good game play. In that moment when you lie, there's like this mob mentality that takes where you see, like, one or two or three and then four people are making, they all just pray, like, okay, well, that's the game. And they were like, sure. Which is crazy to think about because honestly, if you're going to try and play like chess, that person is someone you should keep in the game because their, their game has blown so wide open that there's no recovering from it. For example, Stephanie, sure, she said the wrong things at the wrong time, but also she kind of had to, like too many people were present when she told Rick about her steal of vote. So she can't deny having a steal of vote because other people will already, whether they say it in front of the group there, they'll know already. So anything you share in the group setting, you have to now measure your reaction against that. Like, you can't be like, nope, you're lying. Because then Jonathan's like, no, she did. And even if he's just in his brain, he's now clocking you as a liar as well. So I think she had to respond the way she did measuring like who knew what about her. Would it have helped her, her game if she would have thrown Jonathan under the bus in that moment? Like, would that have made it more confusing for the vote? Would that have just made her look worse? I think it would have made her look worse like, oh, she has no loyalty with anybody. It might, I think it might, it should, the way it depends on how she delivered it. If she delivers it well, it could have helped her in that moment, but it would have hurt her, immediately after, like, it's like a desperate move, right? It's like a Hail Mary. And if it hurts you then now, then you're a pariah because nobody then trusts you. You've effectively alienated all of your writer dies. And at that point, you're done, I think, hard to win it back. Yes. And then the only thing you have is to win challenges at that point and hope that things turn. But nobody, you're not going to win the game at that point, though. If you betray to every single person, even your writer dies, even if you win out all the way out, I don't think you have a very strong argument to winning. Other than my back. People was against the line. I didn't want to judge you. Yeah, exactly. There's been winners. There's been people who come in second that way and they, you know, it's like people who vote for you on the jury vote for you because they begrudgingly respect your game, but they do not want to vote for you. It's almost like they hate the other person more. So, you know, you're getting the, the vote by default. And then Jimmy, who is Mr. Beast, guys, I don't know why they keep bouncing between names. It's like me with Rick and Devon's. That's the same person I'm talking about, Rick or Devon's, same person, Jimmy or Mr. Beast, same person. Why are we calling him Jimmy? That's weird. Well, I don't actually know, like I was wondering, I'm like, so in his videos, does he go by Jimmy? Or does he go by Mr. Beast, I think? I wonder if Jeff just couldn't bring himself to call him Mr. Beast, but he could be just like, I can't some, I think. Yeah. I also don't know what you're going by. No. No. Oh, yeah. This is my father. This is my dad. Yeah. I think also that Mubot word Jeff was like, thanks for coming on our little show. Like how bad the death sting Jeff to have to give Mr. Beast his flowers for having way more viewers on YouTube. I thought was, and then Jimmy, Jimmy, as we know him, is like, nah, you're your survivor. You're the OG, which is true. Yeah, it is true. And I think that, you know, if you looked at the curve of viewership over the years between Survivor and Mr. Beast, you know, if you said the beginning, 70 million people were watching, you know, early on, our season of value, I think, was like 25 million people a lot. Yeah. You know, and it was so like, those numbers are massive even by today's standards of the videos of, and then, you know, somewhere in what 2010, 2012, 2015, you know, Jimmy, Jimmy Beast. Yeah. Is that his last name? Yeah. Jimmy Beast. Yeah. James Beast. Yeah. Come on the scene. And, you know, that changed, right? So it's fascinating because it really has taken place over such a very strange time in American media. So it would have had to been strange for Jeff, who at the beginning, I'm sure, Mr. Jimmy was, you know, just a, what we type watching Survivor and being like, oh, I'd like to make videos one day. And now, you know, he's one of the biggest guys in the world. It's still so strange to me that a YouTuber can be one of the biggest media personalities on the planet. But yeah, here we are. Do we think it's super lucky for Jimmy that this advantage went well? Yeah. Ashley, if Suri had been the one to flip the coin and it had not gone and she had gone home, the fans would be in an uproar. And I've been thinking about this a lot because I was like, the fans would have been upset, especially the fans that are online. We would have gotten that. That's what critics do. I'm upset anyways. So that's what critics do is they criticize. That's part of it. That's me. We're, and when I'm even when I'm watching the show, like I get people are like, oh, you're And I was like, I'm watching the show. And in my brain, I'm like, how could I have made this better? How could this have been a better viewing experience? How did they get this perfect? Like, not everything is going to obviously be a winner. And also, I don't have all the greatest ideas in the world. I'm just watching this and saying, you could have done something better here. I do, I don't like the randomness of the luck of flipping a coin. I think that's a different show. I don't think that's a survivor. But it worked out, OK, because the coin flipper won, doubled the price pot. People love that. And it still went to a vote after that. So I think that it could have gone really bad. Had that person just exited or-- yeah, but I do believe that this luck portion of it, I don't love. I love that James Beast was willing to put that on the line. Like, oh, I think that it was so cool that he was like, OK, we'll take it to a coin flip. My guess is, if I'm a producer, my guess is that I have some if-then scenarios. Like, if it's tails and he goes home, we need another way to ratchet up the pressure for the future and get the money to 2 million. Like, my guess is there's other-- There's no way that Jimmy Beast isn't giving another extra million to the prize pool. It was lucky enough to work out the first time, but had he lost, would it have gone to the next treble council be like, well, Jimmy's back tomorrow night. For another person, just keep flipping into it. Or another person, or they'd have found-- I don't know that that's not over. I don't know that that's not over. They might ratchet it up again, given where we are. And so my guess is that there's probably another person or another guess that's going to introduce the elements that get us to where we're going to go at the end, no matter what. It would have been just not as fun TV. And you can see Beast was so thrilled that it went heads, because I think maybe he's definitely a fan, but even more than that, man, he really-- he put his own thing to a coin flip. Like, the success of his wrinkle was at a coin flip. And I think he was so thrilled that it went the way that it did. You can see. Yeah, he was definitely thrilled and relieved. And I think if you're building show about a round or the twist around it having to work out for that person to not get shit on by the viewership, then maybe it's a little too risky. They also benefited from having somebody who one kind of knew that they were going to get voted out. So we volunteered to do it. And then two is also Rick Devinsons built his whole reputation and game on chaos, anyways. I mean, he was like, I'm built for the coin flip, Mr. Beast twist. His kids love Mr. Beast. And this is like his whole game anyways. So that where, if he had been like, if Devins wasn't there, it goes to a rock draw. So Ray Rock draws the she has to flip, flips and goes home. Yeah, then that's crazy. Like, that would be just a revolting outcome. And I don't know why we're building things into the game. That's such a Mr. Beast outcome, though. Like he kind of runs on whether it's going to be the most cruel outcome or the most money filled outcome. So this totally makes sense for him, but it doesn't make sense for survivor. See, I guess I guess that's right. Yeah, exactly. That's like a problem with it. Then is that it's like, well, then it's a different show. That's Beast Games. I can watch Beast Games. I can watch the most popular YouTuber in the world. You know, it's not like I don't have access to this type of stuff. It's out there and it's very popular. And it's good for me. Branding-wise for him, because there's a whole group of like non-genzeers and young millennials who are like, who is this Mr. Beast? And he gets out. He gets out. Absolutely. Like, it's really smart. You know, he did the right thing. I, I think that, um, does anybody else just blown away about how tall he was? Yes. I noticed that. I know. He was towering over. He's not like a hot guy. He's a lineman. He's, he's only as tall as, he's only as tall as us. He is. He's only like six, six, three. How tall are you? You're six eight? You're six eight? Yeah. No, I'm six, I'm six, three-ish. Yeah, I'm six eight. Yeah. There was, I think there's one other player that was taller than me, but. I think, I think, uh, I think, uh, no, there was been an NBA player, Scott Poler. Oh, hasn't. Yeah. And Cliff Robinson. Um, I think that, I saw online that Mr. Beast is like six, three and Jeff Post is like five, ten. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't know if he's a true five, ten, you know, these Hollywood types. He's listening. He's listening. He's hung up their numbers a little bit. He's a tall five, ten. So, uh, I, I was blown away when he stood there and I was like, uh, I guess, just want to be on a stepping stool or something right there in that moment. He could have been. He could have put himself in the same height, but he, uh, didn't. So, you know, two things. I was impressed with his tee. Nice tee. They're not real. No. Obviously. Also, I think if you're rich and you're feeling like you are going to like, we'll find out again. Was Rick the target? Was he going to go home in that moment? I believe that he was. Yeah. If that's the case, you're pumped for this 50, 50 flip. You are absolutely pumped for it. It couldn't have come at a better time. Is there a part of you if you're against Rick that is blocking him from flipping the coin by flipping it yourself? Gosh. If I thought Aubrey might be going there, you know, for a second or a second, yeah, I thought there was a second or I thought, I think that, I mean, it'd be interesting to know if you talked to her. If that was going through her head, um, because I think that that's where her head went was. So wait a second, maybe we should take this away from him, but I, I don't know that everybody feels all that threatened by death in this right now. So I think if they feel like you're the secondary target, like Stephanie, if you, yeah, I feel like someone like that. If Stephanie was feeling like she was feeling, feeling the heat, she needs to fight to flip it. But maybe she wasn't feeling the heat. Maybe she should have. You know, maybe what, what happens if she now flips the coin, right? And what happens if she speaks up and flips the coin, she didn't go home. I mean, you know, for all intents and purposes, she went home. So, you know, I think your, your theory is right on and that she probably should have been the one to say, no, no, I'll do it. Um, but she probably in the back of her mind felt like she was safe, like there was just enough doubt that she was safe that she didn't, she didn't go for it. Which is, again, the balance of survivors, there's, like it's probably me, but if I talk about it too much, then it's definitely going to be me. So hopefully it's not me, and I'm just going to like lay low-ish, but also like trying it in for me. Like the balance is always like such a struggle. That's also, so many people who don't play idols and go home, like that, I think that's the exact reason is like, I'm going to save it for a rainy day and when, when's the rainy day? Well, I always think I'm just safe enough and she must have thought she was greater than 50% safe because those are the odds, right? Like, you had to think I'm probably 75% safe. Well, she's at least 50% safe because Rick could have flipped and lost. Yeah. So I feel like that's also mathematically comes into play. You're like, I have a 50/50 shot of staying here if I flip, but I also get an idol. Or I might go home after somebody wins the flip. So I think that, I think, I think not flipping unless you are fairly certain that you're not the target. So if Rick really felt like he was the target, which he stated, one in six was shot in the dark 50% chance with the Mr. Beast coin also had he flipped and lost this. Would Mr. Beast have given him money after like been like, I'm sorry, that sucked here's money. Or a Tesla. Oh, right. I have a thousand Tesla's to give here's one. Yeah, or would it have been as notably historic as they are saying it is, but they said historic again this episode, they've been saying it a lot. They've been trying. I think to really drive that home. Yeah. Yeah. Is this historic? Will it be remembered as historic and would it have been remembered as historic? How do you have lost the flip? I think it sure felt historic to everybody in that moment, but I also feel like everything feels heightened and the volume feels turned up when you're there. Like that's why everybody cries all the time. Like you're on day two and everybody's crying. And you're like, why the hell is everybody crying? It's like, it's all feels like the volume's turned up. There's also this element of like, it's, you know, and I've maybe just stopped more like this before the days of Mr. Beast, but it does feel like there's this, I'm on TV thing that like, it plays into it that makes it feel big because we all grew up with TV and you feel like you're on. There's still a very bass emotion around that. So there's also the big egos of the people who are actually selected to go on reality TV. I know any time I'm on TV, I'm like, fucking historic, Tyson doing his story again. man, why am I so historic? - Oh, and I'm sure Jeff, at this point, does not feel as if the show is historic, right? Like I feel, you know-- - Everything he does, he's feeling is historic. - So, you know, he's been doing this for 25 years. I remember when he was on, when I was around that I remember hearing glimmers that he was ready to call it quits, like that it was gonna be done, that, you know, I think after a season or two after me, it was like, he was tired. And so now to hang in there and bring it to, I went to the reunion of what it would have been. - The 10 year reunion for a year. - Yeah, in LA. - Yeah, yeah, I went to that. And that felt like, oh, wow, this has been around for a long time. So he must feel at this point, like, man, this is, we've started to get into one of the longest running shows, you know, category. So I think that, you know, to some extent, it's warranted that there is some history to this. And I think when you're there, you feel like it's big. Will it be remembered as actually historic? I don't know. I mean, it's the first time that it's $2 million, and we might not be done. It could be more by the time it's over. - It was $2 million for winners at war, season 40. - Okay, sorry, you got me again. This is where people start to, I start to betray that I don't watch as many seasons as other people. I do love the show, I promise. - Yeah, no, I agree. This historic in some ways, it will be forever remembered, definitely to the person who wins, and also to Rick Devins. And he could be the same, he could be the winner, and also the guy it happened to. But I think it's a fun little thing, but I don't want to see a coin flip for people's lives. I think, like, let it rest on their game play. - Yeah. - Yeah. - So then we go back to a live tribal. And I've always kind of been like, I don't like live tribals as a viewer. They stress me out as a player, but like I understand why they happen, I understand why they're there, but I think I've pinpointed why I don't particularly love them as a viewer, 'cause A, you're not always seeing everything everybody's saying, but also, and I think more so, there's no commentary ever from the contestants about the live tribal as it's happening or after it's happened or during. Like, is there a way we could get confessionals intermingled with the live tribal about the like, a lot of stuff happens after, like they could, after a tribal council, be like, okay, everybody stay put, we're gonna do confessionals over here real quick about the live tribal, get your take on it as it's happening. I feel like something like that, if you can do live tribals, would be powerful for the audience to see. - I agree with you. I feel like if you did that during tribal council, I've no doubt they've talked about it. If you did that during tribal council, because tribal feels live as it is, it feels like immediate. I feel like if you were doing confessionals, it would feel, there'd be like a disjointedness to the timeline almost where it doesn't feel natural. - Well, you do agree after the votes are cast. - Yeah, yeah, everybody cast the votes. You even have Jeff come out and say he's gonna read the votes, and then no idols are played or anything. And then you say, okay, lock down, we're gonna do some confessionals right now about the live tribal council. - Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I do think I don't like it because it ultimately amounts to you hearing as a viewer, people say, it's Aubrey, Aubrey, Aubrey, okay, James, okay, good, good, good, yeah, all right, Jonathan, all right. And like you're like, I don't understand when nobody understands what it's actually gonna have. It doesn't, like, move the story along at all. - Yeah, us as viewers who should have the point of view of a god seeing everything don't get to see this and don't get to understand. And we never get to understand what's going on in people's heads at live tribal because we never have confessionals about the live tribals after they happen. - Yeah, that's interesting. - And so I think that that's the disconnect now for me is I don't get to see that, but it makes so much sense to see Stephanie in that moment be like, so live tribal council happened. Here's what I'm hoping is gonna happen. Here's what was told to me by people. Here's what I like, this is what, and worst case scenario, maybe it's me or I feel comfortable, it's not like that would add a lot for me. - Yeah, yeah, I can see that. - I also feel like you'd end up, it was already an hour and 25 minute episode. I think you'd end up like a two hour episode every time. You know what I mean? You're like, it was, these have been long episodes. - Well, they just got some other stuff out. What could you cut out from this episode? - Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure. Well, what's interesting, there's another thing that has changed over the years. It used to be 42 minutes, that's it. 42 minutes, enough time for commercials, that was enough. That's what you know, you'd 18 minutes of commercials and that was the game. And now the fact that they can play with that a little bit, I got it as an editor and as a producer of the show, it has to be more fun because you can let some moments breathe some, and that's got to be fun to be able to tell more of the story. - Or leave some fun moments in that aren't necessarily game, that don't necessarily push the narrative in any direction, they're just there. Sometimes that's fun, sometimes it's too much. Like it depends on the episode and the gameplay in that moment, but sometimes you're like, they were really stretching and sometimes you're like, oh, I wish there were more. Stephanie's the only one that voted for Aubrey. She voted for Aubrey twice is that. Everyone else was just like, okay, it's Steph. - Well, this has been happening a lot this season where you think the votes gonna be, there's only been a couple times where like maybe one, maybe one time, where Jeff's read the name, it's been one vote for so and so. And then it's two votes for so and so. And then it's three votes for so and then it comes and it comes to gets to a tie. I think it happened with Rizzo and John, who else was the, it went to tie. Anyway, I purge everything from my memory right after it happens. - Yeah, yeah. So that's happened a lot this season where you see that the vote was not as close as it appears and that actually, as a viewer tells you a lot about what's actually happening on the beach versus what you're seeing in the edit. Because it tells you that the group, the alliances are more unified than you might think. And so that was something to me I wanna talk about because to see staff vote twice and everybody else be like, it's staff if it's not devins means that somebody was doing a very good job on the beach. Before we got into all the nonsense of live tribal about knowing what the secondary vote was gonna be. - Knowing what the plan B was, which was the whole point of the Mr. Beast thing was people have to have a plan B and somebody had that plan B in place. Emily also whispering to people to vote Aubrey and then be like, why are you lying to me? Like, I know that was my favorite. - I loved it. When he was like, what did he say? He's like, you're so full of it. - Yeah, that was Jonathan. - Was that Jonathan? - Yeah, I loved it. - I was Jonathan. - It was great. - Yeah, it's so funny. It's just like, Emily just cannot. - She can't get out of her own way. - Can't get out of her own way. - She just can't. She seems so nice. I feel like she gets deer in the headlights and then she starts just saying stuff. If you just, it just comes out. - Yeah. - That's something I can identify with as well. I think I did that once in twice. But I think that once you get to that place, you just get to a place where everybody just, well, here's what happens in my opinion. Historically, you want that person. Like I would want Emily. Emily might make it really far now because people will start to realize that you can take her, if she's along for the ride with you and you get to a jury with somebody like her that you're gonna have, that's a great story. So, I think historically, it's been my experience as I've seen and certainly in the old school, having somebody like that around, she might make it pretty deep because it gets a little easier at the jury. I don't think she has a high chance of winning, but I think that, you know, first, to be able to talk the way she talks, means she does have some game. But I do think that it gets you into trouble when you get to jury. - Yeah. Before we get to Riley's Reads, anything else stand out from the episode, particularly that we want to talk about? - Is John, I wanted to ask you, I'm sure you'll know, is John Kierhoffer still doing the challenges and the travel councils is still around? - Yes, John is still there. - Are you cool? - Yeah. - I just love him. - One of the few that's been there since day one. - Yeah, I think he's great. I have noticed that the challenges have changed a lot in over the years. Like there's a lot more obstacle course, like get to this station. And like what, the way I read it, I would love to talk to John about it, but the way I read it is they wanted more opportunities for teams to catch up. Like more chances, more station chances for somebody to go from last to first. And so the more like stationed obstacle courses you have, the more chances that that takes place. 'Cause I think it's very different. Like I haven't seen really any of the challenges that we had in Palau. We had a lot of weird stuff. Not weird stuff. So awesome, it was awesome. I was just every time I was just like, this guy's an evil genius. I love him and he's such a nice guy. But I thought that I noted that you can see how the challenges have evolved over the years. And I think the travel council looks great this time. It definitely, the community idols feel 3D printed. Like they feel it was like survivor Harry Potter. But I think that overall, like the travel council was just like huge, it feels really cool. He's just very, I love him. I hope he listens to this and hear how much I think he's such a massive part of the show. - Yeah, we can tell him. And the reason I think that the challenges are like that more and more is to give a wider range of capabilities, a chance to actually win something. So it's not just brute force or just strength or just being good at yoga or whatever it is. So I think that that is a big part of it also. I don't think they like having injuries on the show. So they've avoided like more physical ones like cramming, wrestling and jabbing people into corners and stuff. They don't do that anymore either, which I appreciate. I was never a big fan of the physical physical, like fighting and wrestling and stuff. Riley, what do we have for your segment? Riley's reads. Yeah, let's run through our categories to wrap things up. Who advanced their game the most this episode? I mean, Rick, obviously, well, saving himself, he's got an idol. I don't think he necessarily did that much. I kind of feel like there's a couple points, Jonathan, I think, heard his game by being lumped in with the person targeting the other side, but I do also think like in the end, he voted Stephanie out and was able to kind of like readjust and recalibrate. So I think that he got himself into trouble, but kind of got himself out a little bit. I would say, you think Aubrey? Yeah, she's my big, you know, just like the throwdown of the OK Corral with the auction and just showing that she's got some strength and like that she's not to be toyed with or messed with. And she started to, you know, really socially play the game well. She's my pick. I think she advanced it the most. She's really turned it around from, you know, those first few episodes in like week or so on the island. She was miserable. She's out there. She's out there. I want to be there. Yeah, biting the head off of a grub and like dancing about it like, what a what a change. Normally it goes the other direction. People are excited in the beginning and I don't know, but I have to tell you, I think those first couple days, if you're on the outside of alliances and it's not going your way, you know, you leave your kids and your family and you're like, what the hell did I do? Like why am I here? You know? Yeah. This was a bad idea like I just want to go home like, this isn't that big of a deal to me, right? Like that type of feelings can come through. And then once the game wants, you know, maybe she shows some signs of like, I made the merge. I'm here. You know, like, okay, let's just come to the end. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got a letter from my kids and they they're good. Everybody's good back home safe. Like, okay. Let's go. And I could see. Yeah. Maybe she's just gaining strength, you know? Yeah. I like that pick. I think I'm going to go with Aussie. I think he's. He's kept his idle still and he definitely has a re-fighting for him and he's adjusting pretty well socially and strategically. I think he's changed his game up more than maybe more than we give him credit for. Maybe that's like, maybe it's less. I don't know, but seems like he's sitting pretty good and the fact that he didn't get aggressive when he realized that he was being targeted, he just kind of played it cool and adjusted accordingly. At first, I was going to say, Aubrey, because yeah, her social game is like so much better than it's ever been. She's on the right side of the vote. She hasn't been linked into any like Emily or Devons, which is interesting because originally she was linked into that group. And also with her, Alliance with Tiffany and Tiffany is like super close with Surie. So that means that Tiff and Aubrey are good until Surie says so. Right? Yeah. That could be the four, in my opinion. They're really strong. You know, I think you get Aubrey, Surie, Tiff and Aussie to me feel like a very likely final four. But I'm going to give it to, I'm going to give it to Rizzo because Rizzo seems like he would be the easy vote this entire season. Nobody knows exactly how he's played. He's definitely doesn't have like the survivor dust on him. He just seems very new and happy, bushy tailed and everything. And every time his name gets picked up just for a second, it gets switched over. And then he's also the advice giver to everyone. He seems like the guy who is most level headed for some reason. And I think that is so out of character for him, but he's making it work and he's made a strong connection with Surie and everybody. I think he's at a really good place right now. I don't know how he did it, but he did it. Yeah, that's a good one. Right. I'm going to agree with, I'm going to agree with you Ian and say Aubrey, we kind of already talked about it. So let's do, who damaged their game? Well, Stephanie. Beyond Stephanie. Yeah, it's hard, it's hard to see Stephanie winning now. I think Emily, Emily, Emily, Emily and Jonathan getting caught out doing that also, yeah, getting caught out, targeting Ozzy. Didn't she get in trouble for that too? She's, yeah, I think she, she's getting caught lying to people and she doesn't need to be lying to people. Yeah. I'm going to say Jonathan. All right. Because I think he's making, he was making a lot of like the moves that Aubrey had mentioned at the beginning of the episode where there's, this is the time for everyone to make a big move and put something on your resume and like make a big splash and I think his approach ongoing after Ozzy. I think this is actually like the second episode where he's mentioned Ozzy's name. And it hasn't gone well both times. He should have learned the lesson from last episode to not even mention Ozzy's name at all. I think he's really busy trying to make big moves socially and I don't think he has the social cred to do such thing and I think he needs to kind of step back and just let everyone talk through it before putting out another name. So I think this episode, he kind of made a lot of bad moves. Yeah. As much as I like him, I think you're right. I agree with you and I think that he, he seems to be coming at people he's seemingly made alliances with in a way that he's like it's almost like he's trying to alpha his way through and in a way that is very destructive to him that will come back to life. Riley? I'm going to say Emily as well. I think that we, you know, have the right agreement there that she's just blabbing everybody. There was also this moment, this episode where Devon's, you know, they bring them in on like this idea that it could be Ozzy and he goes back to Emily and he's like, oh, it could be Ozzy. And then they just start like giggling together and they're like, we're unhinged. We shouldn't be allowed to play and it's like, do you two realize you're like on the bottom and people are just like feeding you their plans last like, I don't know. I thought that moment kind of stood out to me as a little bit of like where Emily hasn't like owned her own game and built her own connections and kind of just is going along with a lot of Devon's stuff. And I don't know. She feels like defense mechanism like actually psychologically, you're like, I'm on, we're on the bottom. So we have to find build rapport with one another so we can demonstrate that we're we have power over this part of our game. Yeah. We'll have to ask you if it is a psychological thing because he gave us a full breakdown about psychology in tribal council this episode. That's right. That's right. Okay. Let's do winner picks. Ian, do you have a winner? Oh, gosh. I should have thought about this before we chatted. I like springing on people. No, I think it's good. So my front runner pick is Suri right now. But I think I need to play like Suri gets gets called out like it's found out and if she's on the wrong side of it. I think I honestly think that somebody like tiff could win. I think that that she's everybody likes her. She's strong and challenges. She just won immunity. You know, she's got like, she's got a good game. She's like, you know, she's I think she plays the social game really strong. I think somebody like tiff could win it. I think she has to come on strong and make a couple moves that will get her the votes in the jury that she needs to not, you know, to not be kind of second fiddle. But I think she's got to enter. I think that it can be tiff. That's my dark core standard day. I'm with Suri still. I think, yeah, it's going to be hard to see how she gets to final three. But again, this episode, she protects Ozzy. She flips it all around, either her nor Ozzy go home. She still has her advantage. Ozzy still has his is the idol. So I think that she's still in a great spot there. I'm going to stick with Tiffany. She's been my pick for the entire season. Oh, yeah. She's awesome. She's just showing how awesome she is, man. I'm sticking with Suri who's been my pick for not the whole season, but a number of weeks now. Yeah. Another good episode for her. Okay. So who's going home next week? Emily. That's what I think. I think so too. I think it's a. I think it's going to play the idol. I think it's going to be a vote split. I think basically the other seven are gonna do a four three votes, but on. Yeah, it's going to start because this is that time when think like power starts to consolidate it like This is the time in the game where you start to see like who's running the show and you're starting to drop baggage It's not going to get you where you need to go. She's not gonna gonna win you You know immunity in anywhere. So I think that I think it's Emily. I think that at this point So re starts to be revealed as running the game and I think she's in I think she's going to start to be in danger You know, like that pre final three danger that you can get in and but I think that you know, it's it's her and and and Rick And I think that she goes home because Rick has to play. I don't think it's gonna be Emily I think that she's a she's a goat like I think that she is made so many Mistakes with their gameplay that people are gonna want to keep her on a little longer I feel like devins is gonna stay longer too because he's kind of falling into that role as well where they're just big distractions Those are the easy votes and I feel like with the a power that three has currently She has a small connection to Emily so she should probably point towards somebody else And I'm gonna say that somebody else might be Joe. I feel like if Joe Is still really pissed that devins is in the game He might end up slipping up and showing some true colors of how pissed he is and it might turn off some people and his alliance is like dwindled He doesn't have an alliance anymore, so he's he might be trolling I think that's a great pick and I think you're right I think you know when I said earlier that Emily might end up going far in the game I think that's how she gets far in the game But she's sorry starts to realize if I keep Emily close by You know I could take her through and Joe could be dangerous and and some of these individual communities He wins an immunity and gains an advantage and now he's way deeper if we're arguing about it. I I think Emily has made Enemies specific enemies. She Aussie. She voted for Aussie last episode She tried to come back to him Aussie's like I thought we had something and she's like no well I mean I had a day one with Rick and Devins. He's like I thought we had a day Okay, so I think there's that she lied to Jonathan at tribal council now He's like those are people who can't afford to keep Emily in the game because they know She is against them and so I think like You want to take a goat to the end, but you can't take a goat who is actively campaigning against you Every single day is that what they call it to go like we're not talking to go in like lowercase guard Yeah, lowercase lowercase there's uppercase go greatest of all time and there's lowercase go there's lowercase go Okay, yes, I like that as a term. I that's what I was talking about before all right good. Yeah. Yeah, anything else Riley Not for me. All right Ian, thank you so much for your time and energy. Hopefully one of these times that they invite you back on survivor You'll actually end up on the island. That's Our fingers crossed for you. Yeah, we'll see Ashley. Thank you for making us sound and look amazing per usual and Riley Have a gate good day Thank you Have a good day. Thank it is your birthday That'll do it here at the father's spoken we'll be back tomorrow with exit press until then see you You