Real Life Salon Ownership with Veronica Cabrera

hairstylist. When does it end? When will you actually start to put yourself first so you can make more money, keep more money, and do it without feeling guilty? I'll tell you when. Right, mother, effing now. Welcome to the Make That Money Podcast with Nina Tulio, where we talk all things pricing, all things profit, and how to build your business with confidence. Hey, hey, welcome back to the Make That Money Podcast. I am Nina Tulio, and I am your host. And today I am not solo. You guys know that I typically do this podcast alone, although we just had Michelle on my CPA friend, and it's kind of like, I don't know, maybe I'm going to change the vibe up, and I'm going to start having more guests on my podcast. But when I started this podcast, I started to do this segment called Real Life, Salon Owner Edition. And it's been a while since I did this, and I know that salon ownership can be very challenging, very difficult, sometimes exhausting, but absolutely rewarding. And nothing is better than hearing from another salon owner that is actually doing the things. And so today, I am so excited that I have a guest. She is a hybrid salon owner based out of Pleasanton, California. And we've known each other now for years, and it has really, really been a true and absolute joy, not only to get to know her, but also to just see her thrive and grow and become just a kick-ass salon owner. And of course, just I mean, she always was a kick-ass person, but like she really grew both personally and professionally. So today's guest is Miss Veronica Cabrera, and I am so excited you are here. Thank you. Thank you for having me, Nina. I am honored. I am really excited to sit down and just talk with you all the things, salon owners and all the things, salon ownership, and hopefully it inspires and motivates or makes someone not feel like alone out there as a salon owner or someone aspiring to be a salon owner. Yes, because I think that's part of the thing where, like I remember when I was a salon owner, and it wasn't as like, "Oh, it's the word I'm looking for." There wasn't a lot of camaraderie, I guess, when I was a salon owner. Now, people are collaborating and they're super supportive, and so I think that's, it's great, but there is still a lot of times when a lot of salon owners feel alone, and they feel like they don't have anyone to talk to that truly understands what it's like to be a salon owner, and that's why I wanted to have you here because your road to success in your business was different just like everybody else's journey, and we've known each other now. I'm trying to think of when, was it 2020? Was it, was it right? I spent, yeah, almost, yeah, about six years. It was before I opened my salon because I knew I needed a coach. I have mentors. I mean, everyone needs mentors, but I knew I needed a coach that understood California and salons, if that makes sense. There's so many good coaches out there, but I was looking for a coach that understood California, maybe not the law, right, because we're not lawyers, but I was looking for a coach that coached in California or new California was plugged into California, and you know, I came, I found you and I'm so happy and I'm honored you took me on, so, yeah, so it's probably been my five year anniversary is October, so, but I signed January, so it's probably definitely six years. Wow, it's, yeah, I cannot believe that it's been six years already, and I truly mean it when I say like it has been such an honor to watch you grow because you have grown personally and professionally, and I remember the start of your business wasn't what I think you thought it was going to be, you know, you took on when you when you sign on to be a salon owner, you take on a lot of risk, and you know, sometimes that risk is a lot more than we think it's going to be, so I want to get into that a little bit and just tell us a little bit about your story, you know, you're coming up, so five years in October, right, in terms of being a stopper rating, yeah, but find my least January, the build out, oh, build out, but yeah, build out, yes, the build up, let's actually get into it from kind of the beginning process, you decided, okay, I'm going to do this, I'm going to become an owner, I'm going to sign this lease, and just a little bit about that process for you and what, you know, what that entailed and what that looked like. Oh my gosh, there is a lot, but I'll just do the high points, and if anyone has questions, I am an open book, they can always reach out if they have any, like specific questions, but in my early 20s, I want to open a salon, actually in junior high, I want to open a salon, because I love fashion and hair, and I just felt like that was it, hindsight is like a million careers that incorporate that, but that's been my like goal, and then in my early 20s, I thought I was too young, hindsight again, you're never too young, you're meant to do what you're meant to do at 19 or 40 or 60, whatever it is, there's no age, there's no, is the age should not be a reason to not do it. So I put that on hold, and then 24, I hired, not hired, but 23, 23, 24, I was introduced to mentors, and they helped me build a business plan, and they helped me kind of do it right, if that makes sense, even though I would still redo how I did it, because you learned as you go, but I'm so glad I have a business plan, and it wasn't. So from 24 is when I started taking it seriously, but I met them about 23, and I just kind of learned what it would take to open a business. I'd definitely overthink things, so I think I would have started sooner if I wasn't in my own head. I also, at one point decided I didn't want to open a salon, because of all the steps that took, I got overwhelmed, so having mentors, like I mentioned, definitely helped with that, but anyway, so yeah, and 24 started a business plan around 25, 26, I was like, "Well, salon ownership's not for me." I wish I leaned into that more, I'm like, "Why?" And it was like imposter syndrome, it was getting in my own way, it was the fear of the unknown, right? And hindsight, you don't know, and you figured out as you go. So 28 rolled around, around 27, actually, I keep getting ahead of myself, because I met you right before I turned 28, so 27, I decided, "Okay, opening us along." So my mentors are like, just put a stake in the ground, stop looking, I'm looking, but I'm like being so picky that it was stopping me, like it was stopping my growth. But put a stake in the ground, you're just getting started, you can always pivot, grow, all the things, not really grow, but you can always pivot. As you know, business ownership is all about pivoting. Anyway, so yeah, and I put a stake in the ground, I happened to sign a lease somewhere that wasn't exactly what I wanted, but I really liked the landlord. And as a young person, even though I felt like I wasn't young, as under 30, it's a high risk, right? So my landlord gave me kind of like a bone, she's like, "Here you go, like this work, she liked me, I liked her, it worked out, I put a stake in the ground." And during that time, I was working with you, and you also said, "Put a stake in the ground, you can pivot, like all these things." So yeah, I put a stake in the ground, and then that just, I just kept moving. I did a full build out. My building was a dance studio before, and during that build out, I learned a lot about construction and time management, and like what is entailed in opening a business, and I loved it. It was hard, cried a lot, but also learned a lot, and I would do it again. Wow. I sometimes I say I wouldn't do it again, just because it was hard, but it was a good hard, it's kind of like college, right? When you have projects that they're hard, but then when you're done, you're like, "Oh, I did it." Like, "Yeah, you feel accomplished." You're like, "Wow, this is amazing, I can do anything." Exactly. So I learned a lot, like I mentioned, so having a business plan, mentors, coaches, definitely kept me from having more of it, more hard learning experiences, more expensive learning experiences, so investing in yourself and having support definitely is a must if you're going to go into this. I mean, you could totally do it alone, but then you're, like you mentioned a while ago, that you'll get burnt out. Sure. So, yeah. That's like the drive version. Obviously, there's so many layers, but I don't want it, you know, I know. I have questions. I have questions. Yeah, I really ask you questions, and then we can just build the picture for it. But yeah, so this journey started when I was really, really young, but I took it seriously. I would say 24, but 20, when I was 22, I actually incorporated as an S-Corp, so I took my business seriously before even owning a salon, just as a stylist in my early 20s. So I treated myself like a business, even though I didn't have a brick and mortar. So I've been incorporated for a while, and so that really helped me in that, but I would say I took opening a salon seriously about 24, and it didn't happen until I was 29. Right. Well, it's a process, and it's a really big decision, and I'm glad that you took a beat. Like you paused, you know, you did the business plan, and you're like, wait a minute, is this really for me? And it's funny, because I talked about this, I think two weeks, you know, on Instagram, if there's like this new trend where people are just like jumping on the bandwagon and opening salons when they really have no idea what it truly entails to lead a team and grow a business. It's a lot. And I think a few key points that you mentioned, number one, have mentors, number two, have a coach, number three, have a business plan. Do not skip over the business plan, and I know a lot of people do that, and they don't have business projections, they don't have financial projections, marketing projections, they don't understand what their two-year plan is. going to be, so don't skip that step. And also I think, you know, really just taking the risk on yourself and really like putting roots down somewhere, even though you said it wasn't the ideal place for you, just getting started. And the other thing that really just set my whole soul on fire was the fact that you loved your landlord. I cannot stress that enough. You have to be able to have a really good relationship with your landlord. You have to feel good around them. You have to be able to trust them because that relationship is incredibly important in the way you navigate through this business when challenging times happen. How are they going to respond? When you have questions, are they going to respond? You know, are they listening to you? Are they responsive? So I love that you mentioned, those are really key points that I wanted to point out because we sometimes jump in head first and we make quick decisions sometimes. And then we look back and we're like, wait a minute, was this the right? Was this the absolute right move? I know there's always times where we would do things differently, but I think you had a lot of the key points. And I think one of the things that I also kind of wanted to know was you kind of hinted on this a little bit, but if you were to start over and you were, because you're five years in, and if you were to start over in today's market with the way that salon ownership is now, what would you do differently? Is there, or is there anything that you would do differently? Oh my gosh. I mean, there's, I would do so much differently, but I'm happy with where I'm at also. So where I was at back then, I had way more time than I do now, just with life and that. But yeah, back then, I had more time and today, but if I was in today's market with what I know, I would start hiring before I open like the moment I knew I was opening a salon, I would start talking about it. I would start working on my culture. I would start just like, well, hopefully I already knew what my culture would be, but I would start hiring even though my salon's not open yet. I would sit down with stylists that, that I love and that I feel like match my brand and I would start filling tears even though I'm not open because people will follow. And back then, I had some people interested that would follow, but I didn't know when I was in open. So I just didn't even open that door for them. And everything has worked out. The team I have is absolutely amazing, but it took me a year to hire, well, there's a lot of reasons why I took a year. There was things on my end, but it took a year to hire a first stylist that I truly wanted in that space. And before I opened, I would start training the team on like the culture of the salon, the expectations and just so when I opened, there was already a heartbeat of that. That's one thing that I would do different in today's market if I were to open a salon is talk about it. Even if you're in a salon as a renter or a commission artist or you're in a suite in your opening, you can talk about it. Like I know people say there's rules that you can't move or I don't know how it works when you're an employee base, but I would start talking to other stylists, go to coffee, connect, get the word out that you are opening because it's exciting. You should be celebrated. You should be happy and like this, it's good to keep things private into your heart. But if you are planning on opening a business for the public that is a service industry, I think you should be open with it. And I am a very private person. So I kept it very quiet. I didn't talk about it with anybody until I opened like I signed to lease in January and no one really knew what I was doing until October. Yeah. Remember those days of like kind of like pushing you, I think a little bit to get outside of your comfort zone. And also, I remember the hiring process. This is it. This is a really, is this sort of subject for a lot of people is hiring. You know, how do I get the right people in the door? Now you have a hybrid business. So you have W2 employees and then you also have renters. And I remember us going back on forth about that a little bit and you were getting so frustrated rightfully so because you were looking to hire and you you just weren't, it wasn't hitting. Yeah. I wanted renters. Yes. Yes. I don't want employees. Right. So being able to pivot. Yes. Yes. Going back and forth on it and you're like, I'm getting so frustrated. I'm like, I know this is frustrating. Let's give it some time. Like these are the things that we want to pour into. And I promise you, getting the first one is the hardest. And then once you have the first one, the momentum will build and you're going to. And that's why I feel like hiring before you open is okay. People that see your vision and know that you genuinely love what you do. They see you as a leader. They will follow you because they're not following you blindly. They're following your culture. They're following what you're building. And you let them know you're human. Like you're going to make mistakes. But then you'll pivot like as an owner, that's what you're doing. You're going to learn and you're going to pivot. Your systems are going to change. Yeah. Things are going to change. And hindsight, I was nervous because of the unknown. Right. I'm naturally a perfectionist. So I wanted everything perfect. Yeah. That's not going to happen. The world's not perfect. But I wish I would have talked about it more and hired because people would follow the vision, the culture, me, you know, because they trust you and they're out there. You only need one or two, right? You don't need a whole team, but you at least get one or two to go. Yeah. And just be careful with talking about it in your salon. We definitely don't want to poach. Like I would never approach my last salon owner. I love the salon I left. I even told myself I'm not going to hire anyone at that salon right away. Like I would make them wait because I would never want to take from somebody. But I would be professional for sure. Oh, even to this day, I would never poach. Like I just don't that's not my that's not who I am. But talking about it is totally fine. Yeah. And so, yeah, hiring is definitely one. Yeah. So a lot of people reached out to be employee based. But again, in California, I was nervous about that. Yeah. Which is another reason why I hired you as a coach back then and currently is because of that. Yeah. And I have another salon owner that I look up as a mentor that owns a salon in California. And she's employee based. And it's been nice to chat with her too on that. So yes, my to high people. Yeah, I've got with. Yeah. I pivoted from rental only mindset to now I'm a hybrid and I like it. It is nice. Yeah. And now you have a team. It was like getting that first one. And then all of a sudden, then you had the second one. And then you had another person. And I was like, Oh my God, you're like, this is so exciting. Your whole team is growing, you know, and it may have taken you a little bit longer than you wanted to. But one thing I will say that is so important. And I want you guys to hear me loud and clear, be particular. And you were particular. You did take your time. And I think it's, it's, it's the right thing to do. Like it's true when they say higher slow, like higher slow take that's why I have a 30 day interview process. Like you higher slow in your business because it is your culture. It's your brand. And you want to make sure that you have the right people. So taking a year, like I would say that's, that's kind of, I don't want to say standard. But I know a lot of owners myself included that it took a good year to find the first right person. Yeah. And I was interviewing during that year. I was, I was interviewing during that year. I wasn't just sitting there like working behind the chair and whatnot. But people I was interviewing, never okay. But I was looking for something in particular. I'm not discriminating at all. But I was looking for a renter that was open to team base, you know, doing salon photoshoots, doing salon coffee dates. I wanted a salon when you walked in. A client couldn't tell if it was a rental stylist or an employee stylist. I wanted them to feel like there was a cohesiveness and finding a renter that has experience because I'm guilty of this as a renter when I was a renter in at my last salon is sometimes I don't want to go to a team building event because that's just not the salon I worked in. Right. It was a true rental salon where you work in left. I didn't want that for a salon that I owned and was a part of. I wanted a team salon. So finding renters to fit that was really hard and not hard. I just didn't tap into that niche yet because I was surrounded by renters that worked in left. But now that I'm in that niche, I'm so glad I waited because now when we have our team meetings, we go to restaurants, we go to coffee dates, we do team building and it's such a good dynamic and the team just adores each other. Like we just love seeing each other and I love that. It's great. And I'm sure I'll hire someone in the future that doesn't fit that and that's okay and we'll pivot when that happens. So finding a renter that fit that was really hard. Obviously employees fit that because you have your handbook, you have your policies, you have your culture contract, you have things that they have to follow. But I don't want someone to come in that is just doing it because they have to. Right. I want them to do it because they want to. Right. And that's part of the brand and that's when you create that they want to be a part of that. And I had the honor of teaching in your space and seeing your beautiful salon. I love the location, love the area, love the vibe. It was so warm. And I got to see it firsthand how your renters and your employee styles, everybody work together. And everybody was it was just such a kind, welcoming, cohesive feel. And so I know that there's a lot of controversy around hybrid and having, you know, renters and having employee based stylists together, but there is a way to do it where it makes sense for the business as long as the expectation and standard is clear. And I think you've done a really good job with maintaining the clarity around them. So when it comes, let's pivot a little bit speaking of the word pivot. I want to talk about leadership because being a leader in a business is insanely hard, so rewarding, but also insanely hard. And you know, you went from being a renter and you know, being a salon as a renter to now actually having to put on your leadership hat and work with people, train people, coach them, you know, hold them accountable. I just twofold. What is one of your favorite things about being a leader? And then what would you say is one leadership lesson that you learned the hard way? The first question, what is one leadership? What is like one thing that you really enjoy about being a leader? This is not selfish, but learning about myself in a way to lead better. So learning like my tics, learning how I react. And over the years learning that about myself has allowed me to show up as a leader that someone may need versus being reactive in the moment. Like I'm able to hold space for people when they come to me and that was a very hard learning experience for me, especially my early 20s. I learned I needed to work on myself, not in a selfish way, but to show up as a leader that someone will need. And so you know, I learned like any of them number, my love language, my human design, all of that right? Because no one's perfect. I am definitely not that. So working on areas of me to show up as a leader that a team would need has been really fun for me. Yeah. What is your human design? Do we ever talk about this? No, but we'll talk about another. I don't. Yeah. I was like, oh my gosh. Not everything is perfect, right? That doesn't mean I want everyone to let me know. No, that's true. Okay, I got you. You can find in my DMs and I'll send you everything. Okay, perfect. I know you love human design. And actually I did my human design because of you. So okay. I also love any of your names. Any of your names are like my favorite, but one thing too is learning about yourself. You will not like it. You will not like what you learn about yourself because you know, we think of ourselves typically as not better, but we don't want to see the ugly, right? Right. So the ugly isn't ugly at all, but we see it that way. So it's pivoting your mindset on like, oh, if I'm going to react like that, I don't like that. What are some tools I can do to not react like that? And I feel like as a leader, that's very important because then you can hold space for other people without getting drained, burned out. Absolutely. Feeling like you're getting taken advantage of your boundaries, it just gives you a bit of a foundation to stand on. Yeah, for sure. And then what was a hard, what was a hard lesson for you? Oh, yeah. Not a lot of hard lessons, but there is definitely quite a few. One of them that's really hard for me because we are in an industry that gives to other people is don't waste your energy trying to prove something or don't waste your energy pouring into someone that genuinely doesn't care. You're as a leader, if you decide to open a salon because you want to and you have the love for that, you're going to care about your business and your team's success more than themselves because they're going to go through seasons and they're going to push back. And luckily, I haven't had a lot of that in my ownership, but it is something that I learned very quickly that I care more than my team, even though they very, very much care, like they are the best. They're so good. I'm not talking ill of that at all, but I care about my salon more than anyone will care about it, right? So I naturally care about my team and I want them to be as successful as they want to be. So needing them where they're at has been a learning experience because not that my standards are so high, but that's part of my human design and my personality is I hold very high standards, but they're not for other people. It's just me, right? But sometimes it's not realistic. So one of the things is taking a step back and being okay, that I care more, but meeting someone where they're at and nurturing that relationship because their wants are different than like my needs, if that makes sense. Right. Not everyone values money. Not everyone values time. Not everyone values the same thing, right? So it's figuring out what they value and then meeting them there. And that's been, like not a hard lesson. It's just when you care so much, it's hard to like check yourself to not care as much. So it's eye opening and I think in plainly put, it's known, whatever care about your business more than you, right? That's it's your business. And I think the difference is, and I had to learn this the hard way too, is there's a difference between standard and expectations. The standard of the business is what it is. This is the standard, how we show up. This is our brand or culture, our values. Can't control. Yes. When we have expectations and we put them on other people, we are most likely going to be disappointed. And also knowing that someone isn't going to be you or me and show up the way you and I would. So we, like you said it perfectly, we have to meet people where they are. And I mean, another hard lesson, honestly, that I learned was that you can care about someone so much and want more for them than they want for themselves and get lost in that. And also on the flip side of that is that people are going to make decisions that are good for them. If another job comes up and it's good for them and it pays them what they want or it's closer to home or whatever it is, they're always going to choose themselves and as they should. But that's where the separation comes in from being so personal and taking it on personally as opposed to saying this is a business. And people are going to choose themselves as I would always choose my business. So those are some lessons too. I think that are like eye opening situations where I'm like, wow, you know, I think you can care so much and want something so bad for someone. But if they don't want it for themselves, there's no way that you're going to be able to shift and move them from where they are. 100% and that is that was a hard learning experience for me. Just not even like just with my team, but just little things that pop up that you and I would talk about over the years that I do care, but they care too, you know, they do care. That's why they're there. You said if a job is closer to home, if they find a job that pays them more or a better schedule or whatever it is, you can take that personally, but that's where you need to check yourself as a leader. It's not personal. It's a business decision. Just like if someone in your business isn't showing up as they should, you know, you check in with them, make sure everything's okay. You do soft touches here and there. It's not just like cut dry leave. You have to, it's a coaching. Yeah, it's coaching, but it's also a personal job like we're not in hospitality, but you know where with people who are in the community. So you had to check in, people get drained. If they don't match your business, like you said, hire slow, fire fast, you have to fire fast. That is hard to do and that's one thing where one thing to my mentors told me from day one, your business is not your baby. Your business is not a family member. It is a business. There is emotion tied to it. So even like picking out the name of the business, you don't give it a name that you're emotionally attached to because it's a business. So people in the business fill it. Yes, there's a motion that it's inevitable. No, but knowing when to cut ties, but also like I said, that was learning, that was a very hard learning experience for me because I do care a lot and I want people to be successful and I know they can be successful in my space, but getting them where they're at and I love that. That's key. My team shows up and I feel very honored to have who I have and hiring slow has paid off. Yeah, for sure. We definitely don't want to rush that. And the name of your salon is Sage and Oak and I want to make sure that we put that out there. Well, of course, have everybody follow you and find you on Instagram too. But I think, you know, one of the other things that aside from leadership and culture is systems. And on those systems, if we lack in systems, we tend to become burned out. And time management is an issue. Trying to find time to do everything. Trying to find time to have a family. You know, if you have kids, you know, being at home without thinking about your business 24/7, I think owners want to know like what systems or shifts did you implement or maybe change in your business that made the biggest difference when it came to reducing burnout while you're still growing this thing. Oh, how do you not burn out when you're starting out? You know what I mean? Like, you had a world of hats. I'm a firm believer. And this is probably from my mom owns a business also and she's always told me, you need to do everything in your business so you know how it operates. Yes. But then you also need to hire out once like, you know, you got to hire out those busy jobs that keep you from the important things. They're still important. Everything, every touch point in business is important. But some systems like that I feel have helped me. I'm going to start personal here because I feel like as an owner, we can't show up if our tank is empty or we're so depleted that we just want to burn our building and go crawling under a rock, which we've all been there is finding something that's not hair related or in our industry related outside that you can unplug with, unplug from. It doesn't have to be big. It could be coloring. It could be, I don't know, knowing the lawn, knitting. It could be if you want to go for a hike once a week, just something where you do it for yourself. Cooking, something to unplug that's not in our industry, which I think is very important because we do get, yeah, we do get consumed in our industry. Another thing is hiring a coach. That was a good idea. one system that I feel like that's a system to me or the coach because they help you see the bigger picture or they help you focus on something small that's more important than like the bigger picture. Right. And they help you see black holes in your business that you may not have seen. And that's one reason I think that's one thing I put on your application when I applied to work with you is I need a coach to help me see my black holes before they happen. Because that can have a simple system. Sure. As to like an inventory or like hiring someone to do easy things or like a tell service that like I just feel like having a coach to help you see some like black holes is super important. But one thing for me is hiring jobs that aren't worth your time even if it takes you 20 minutes to do it. Having someone in paying them an hour to do it is worth it. For example, we have a tell service now what I used to have the I would wash the towels and then the girls would fold and put them away. That's totally fine. But I that that washing towel situation that's time that I don't need to do the washing machine does all the work but it's the energy it's the mental load is the extra check. I have a tell service now. Why glove towel service? Probably one of the more expensive things in my business. But it is worth it for us because we don't have a washer and dryer in our unit. So now the girls just put them away. There's no headache. No one's worrying about who's folding what? It's easy. It's a white glove service that it's worth paying for. Another thing to is inventory. As an owner, you do need to be involved in your inventory. You need to know what's on the shelves. You need to know if they're growing legs and disappearing. You do need to be hands on deck. But hiring someone like it could be a front desk. It could be front management. It could be your co-artist. It could be the small assistant. It could be someone that you know is more type A and enjoys systems. I'm luckily enough to have our salon manager and she is a systems guru. We love her. She started out. She was like our tried and she's been with the business since like day one. But she does our inventory and helps with ordering and tells me what we're low on and that even though it takes what five minutes to glance at the shelves to see what's low or to look in the back end. She does all that and it's nice. So like little things like that she makes sure the shampoos and conditioners in the back bar are full. The team's pretty good about checking that, but giving job roles to people. I feel like helps. Yeah. But I would say having a coach would be the number one thing to have your systems in play. Yeah. Because building systems is easy once you're in it. But people can over complicate it. Yeah. Like systems aren't hard. It's like you see a problem. You just kind of fix it with a solution and that's a system. Right. But yeah, for me, the thing's for me that I feel like that were my time suck that I'm glad I have hired out is inventory towels, cleaning like the salon cleanliness, like little things like that that I used to do. I used to clean the salon. I used to fold the towels. I used to do all of this and then hiring out and having systems in play for it. Yeah. Well, I think you always have to ask yourself this and I say this to a lot of a lot of my owners. When you're doing five million different things, not that you shouldn't be folding towels. So don't don't get me wrong. That's not what I'm saying. But is what I'm doing actually going to help grow my business right now. So I remember there were there was a time in my salon where I had three people in the backroom stylus. They were just chilling, right? They didn't have clients. I'm back their folding towels when I have a stack of shit on my desk that I had to marketing. I had to take care of their events that I were coordinating. I had to run payroll and I thought to myself, is what I'm doing right is folding the towels right now helping me grow my business when I have three other people that can do it. Now I will always step in. I scrubbed the toilet. I was on the job duty list. Just like everybody else was I had no shame. But there are times where you're like, wait, am I using my time wisely. So when all of the things you're saying, yes, when you're thinking about social media, when is it time to bring in someone to help you do social media, you're going to get to that point, right? Where you are. We have someone that does that now. Right. You're capped, right? You get you grow into it though. Like you grew into that. I was going to touch based on that with you also is when you start out, I don't know your personal finances. I don't know how salon broke you are. I don't know any of that, right? But sometimes you can't afford someone to clean your salon. You can't afford a tell service. You can't afford a receptionist or an assistant. So you have to do it. And I do, I'm a firm believer in like what you said, scrub toilets. You're an owner. You should be the first one in there doing it. Like not just handing it off. And I tell everyone that comes on, any job you do in the salon, I've done any job you do in the salon. I will do. But we're a team here and we work together, right? So I don't have like a chore list, but another system is like sometimes girls get busy and they can't clean out the hair vacuum. They can't clean out certain things. So we have like a little list in the back that's laminated by the door. If you have downtime, just look at it. If you do something on the list, put it in an initial for that day. And if everyone does one thing on that list, the salon will move. Like that's one system that we voted on versus having like a chore list or giving duties to someone because no one wants to be really told what to do. But that's different with my salon than someone else's salon. You might have to do that. But yeah, no, that's so key is if you have things you need to do like being in your numbers, marketing, things that are going to bring clients into your salon, that's where your energy needs to be is growing your business from the backend. And then hiring to help you with like the busy stuff. Delegate, but you're never above it. But you're never above it. Just because you're delegating does not mean you're above it. It's just you need, you don't want to get burnt out. Of course, well, and you still have to have your hands in it, just like having a bookkeeper. Like you should absolutely have a bookkeeper in your business. It doesn't mean you're going to be hands off. You should still look at your P and L every month. But let them do what they do best because we're not bookkeepers. We're not CPAs. That's not our gig, right? So I think it's knowing when to ask for support and knowing that it is okay to ask for support in your business. So okay, last and final question, because I think this is always just such a banger to leave with. If there was one piece of advice or basically what do you wish someone would have told you about owning a salon before you opened your salon? One thing I wish someone would have told me the matter with the ages. Also, this generation is different than like you mentioned before. Like it was so close in effect then is shadow salon owners. If you can reach out to someone that you admire and you like how their salon is operating, ask if you could shadow that owner or shadow the salon or ask if they would hop on a call with you. Like talk to other salon owners and don't be afraid to reach out. No response is a response. So if they don't respond, that's fine. They might not have systems and they're so busy and they just can't meet with you. Or they're so busy that they just choose not to meet with you. That's okay, but there are salon owners out there that will cut out time to chat with you. So I wish someone told me that because when you shadow someone or learn from someone, you take what you like and you leave what you don't. But don't just shadow one person that you admire. Shadow multiple people because the person you admire, you might actually not like how they run their business. You might not like how they talk to their team. You might not like the actual structure, but the salon is pretty social media is pretty because now it's social media right back when I started we used to have paper books and it was a different everyone was hushed back then, but I'm sure even back then there was a salon owner that would have let me shadow. I guarantee back then there was a salon owner that would have coffee with me because there actually was one salon owner that did have coffee with me. But that was for me to work in her space, but she was still an open book and I'm forever grateful for her. She actually works in my salon now. Yeah, she sold her salon and now works in my salon. But amazing. Yeah, so I would say shadow salon owners. That is one thing I wish someone would have just said, Hey, reach out. Reach out. Yeah, I think it's just as simple as that and I think we get in our own head sometime and we're like, they're not going to share anything or they're not going to and there are some people who don't want to and that's okay. But I feel like now we're in an age where everything is so public and they're everything is on social media and I feel like they're just so much easier to connect and like shoot someone at DM and say, Hey, I love the way that you're running your business. I am just getting started and I'm looking for a mentor or I just love to pick your brain. Yeah, I think some people still get weird about it because they just had this conversation with another owner maybe like two weeks ago. But some people are really giving and really want to share and and then your part of it is that you pay it forward. Exactly. That's where I'm at, right? Yeah. Now that's where you are, right? So someone did it for you and then you do it for someone else and you keep that trend going where the more we collab, the more we support each other, the better we are. And there is enough to go around for everybody. I agree. So and just because you could be two of the same people, but your businesses are different at that sense. And also just because you shadow someone like they're not telling you everything. You're not going to know how hard it was. You're not going to know everything, right? But do hopefully see a glimpse into salon ownership and it'll either inspire you or it won't like tell you not to open a salon, but you'll take things away where you're like, I don't like that. So when I own my salon, I'm going to try this differently. So it's already kind of like you're learning before it even happens. And you learn so much just by being a fly on the wall. Yeah, you don't need to know why they're doing something, but watching them do it when you're in it, you'll be like, oh, That's why they did it this way. I didn't like it when I saw them do it this way, but now I understand why they do it this way because it's a system that they instilled. Or, I don't know, I just feel like I wish someone would have told me that. - Yeah, that's a really good, really, really good piece of advice and I think that people are more open to it these days. So, - Absolutely. - Have any people that are thinking about it? - Pop in. - And like you said, if people aren't open to it, that's okay. Like I said, they may not be a bad person. They just might be so busy in their own team, they can't or there's still some people out there that keep it close to their heart and that's okay. - Yeah. - So, you will find your people, that is for sure. So, listen, this has been amazing. I love how open you are. I love, again, watching you grow and just being a part of your journey it really has been such an honor. I love where you are in your business and you're still growing. Like that's the thing about entrepreneurial ship. It doesn't stop, right? You're still, you still have new ideas and thinking of all of these things for your business. And I'm incredibly proud of you. So, I thank you so much for sharing all of your information and your knowledge. And I want people to know where they can find you 'cause you Instagram, your page, your salon. And I know that you're very open to people reaching out to you as well. - I am very open. So, my salon Instagram is Ronnie, hairstylist, R-O-N-I and then hairstylist. And then my salon is dajanoke. salon. And you can message on either platform. I do have someone help me with social media but she doesn't do any messaging or anything that pertains to business side. So, you can also reach out to the salon page. So, perfect. And then our website is dajanoke salon.com. You can also reach out on there. We have a connect form. So, if you have any questions, I am an open book and I just want everyone to be successful and just enjoy the ride. It is a ride. You know, anything an entrepreneurship is a ride, even as a rentor, like going independent, it's still a ride. So, definitely an open book. - Yay. Well, thank you. Thank you so so much. And thank you everyone for joining us today on the Make That Money Podcast. See you next time. (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]