Speaker 1At Harmony Bank, we believe that better happens together. We're a locally owned bank built on relationships and personally committed to your success. Our community bankers are ready to make quick decisions. No big bank bureaucracy, just a custom approach to help you thrive. From business loans to mortgages and everyday banking needs, Harmony Bank provides a secure, modern experience with a touch of Texas hospitality. We're Harmony Bank, where better happens together. Hello and welcome to the How Not to
Speaker 2Screw Up Your Kids podcast. So, pour yourself a cuppa, find a comfy seat and enjoy the conversation. This is episode 78 and today's episode I get to share my recent conversation with Izzy Judd, wife to Harry, mummy to Lola, Kit and Lockie, violinist, and author of Dare to Dream and Mindfulness for Mums. With all the perceived privilege and celebrity status people might attach to someone with over 300,000 followers on Instagram, Izzy couldn't be more real, humble and honest about her and Harry's parenting journey. From IVF, childhood anxiety, to juggling three children. I know Izzy's honesty has been a lifeline to so many mothers who relate so much to her and Harry's parenting journey.
Speaker 3I miscarried. actually was that my I talk about this in the book you know but my brother and his wife fell pregnant very soon after I did through IVF but I had miscarried when they told me that she was going to have a baby so obviously that child would have been the same age and all those things and I I was so angry that I couldn't be happy for the news that I was going to be an auntie that infertility and the struggles I was having was even taking that away that I was now not even able to find peace within you know that situation but then tragically she then miscarried a little bit later on and then of course I felt absolutely dreadful for the fact that I had felt so angry about the pregnancy and it was actually in that moment that I made a decision to even on the hardest days every time I saw somebody pregnant which is where I live is like every every person you pass well it feels like that to actually wish their pregnancy well internally to kind of think I wish you I wish you a healthy pregnancy I don't know what your story was and and I found that a very healing process.
Speaker 2God that's incredible because I would imagine there'll be lots of people listening to this that would want to feel that they could have done the but there's so much hurt and there's so much pain I'm sure in that whole process that it's often difficult when you reflect back on that time now what were the things that you felt that you that kept you sane and what were the things that caused the most sort of turmoil and pain?
Speaker 3Immediately afterwards something I never knew is that when you miscarry you bleed for weeks so it was this constant reminder that I had lost and the empty feeling and the actual physical sensation of miscarriage I just replayed it over in my mind you know it's traumatic but as the weeks went on you know you're going through this with your partner and we sort of picked each other up so when one was feeling down the other one sort of picked them up and we sort of knew that we wanted to go back and try again and because we had frozen embryos because that first baby I lost was from my first round of IVF I almost felt I needed to get myself mentally and physically prepared to go again and I sort of got into that headspace of in order to give myself the next best shot I needed to work on this loss and grief and and somehow come to terms with it.
Speaker 2Yeah and so that was that was probably quite powerful what did you end up doing in that period of time then before you then went for the second round?
Speaker 3So I mean obviously before the first round I was in I was really excited about having IVF it was the first moment that I felt hope and that there was possibility and you know the two weeks after you've had the embryo transferred and having your embryo I always explain IVF a little bit like a hurdle race you're sort of going through each hurdle are you going to get to the next stage but if you get to the point of having an embryo that can be transferred you know you see this embryo on the screen before they put it back in and there's sort of a flash of light that you watch and you're in the room with your husband and it's really clinical and yeah it's got its own air of complete beauty that I just wasn't expecting. So I had such a positive experience of IVF I had really got myself into a lovely headspace I've been using mindfulness and yoga and walking loads and probably the only time in my life that I've actually put myself first and said no to things because I was on a mission to do this for me so I'm to get back into that headspace the second time was really tricky actually I was on a mission to do this for me so I'm to get back into that headspace the second time was really tricky actually. But somehow I did and I yeah we went again and the result of that is my daughter Lola and you know had I not gone through that loss I may never have met her.
Speaker 2Yeah and I think that that's that's a kind of a lovely way of reframing what was a very tragic and difficult time what did that do to your you know every parent whether that you know if they conceived naturally they have this tiny little bundle that they bring home from the hospital or from home or wherever you have you birth your baby and there's this insane amount of anxiety around what you do and what was what all of that did you feel that yours was
Speaker 3particularly amplified? You know it's such a difficult one to know because I don't know the other way but all I know is that I was not prepared for what was about to happen I had put so much energy into getting pregnant staying pregnant the birth that all the practical things had been put in place you know I had all the baby grows buggy you know all those those things the frozen meals in the freezer and but ultimately the overwhelming sense of responsibility when Lola was sat in her car seat in our living room and just thinking what do I do now but she was this looking back you know she was this really serene baby you know I was that annoying mum that would be like yes you know kind of feel awkward about it but she was sort of the duck floating along the water and I was the legs desperately paddling underneath I was so anxious you know getting out the house would she need a place to be and I was like I don't know what I'm gonna do I don't know what I'm gonna do I don't know what I'm gonna do I don't know what I'm gonna do I don't know what I'm gonna do I don't know what I'm gonna do I just wanted to get home I just wanted to be safe and at home and I felt like I couldn't do anything it was such a shock and I had the added feeling of but you're so lucky you wanted this for so long you should only be experiencing the joy and actually we both know that that is an unrealistic expectation and totally incorrect you know becoming a mother is like it's like nothing you can really prepare for or try to explain
Speaker 2yeah and I you sort of touched on this idea I think was did you feel a sense of not critical with yourself but but maybe it is criticism with yourself at times for being ungrateful or you know you should be enjoying every moment of this because you're so lucky that you can and that you have and did that then add another layer for a what would just be ordinary feelings of just overwhelmed
Speaker 3yeah I think naturally I'm a perfectionist and I need routine and I need control it's all part of that's having that anxious disposition and with a baby there is no routine certainly to begin with and there's no control you don't know what's going you you're you have someone else that's dictating things to you that before that you've been the person that can decide what you want to do when and where and suddenly this little being needs needs you and I think on reflection looking back I think having gone through the difficulties to conceive taught me a lot about being a mum you know whether it was patience letting go acceptance all those sorts of things but I think with each of my three pregnancies I've had hormonal you know post pregnancy sort of difficulties with getting back to an equilibrium
Speaker 2yeah and I mean you've talked very openly about having you know struggled with anxiety at periods of time in your life and having had antidepressants and CBT in terms of helping one of the things I think tends to happen is we get very wrapped up once we're all the different stages making sure that our child is developing we get caught up in all of the things about making sure that we've got the right equipment but I'm not sure how much we actually prepare not just for the practical things about life with a baby because I think we do a bit of that but actually how that might affect us as an individual and what it might bring up did you have because you had the IVF sort of journey and you can reflect back on how that's taught you and some of these other things but did do you feel that you prepared yourself for what might happen post baby in terms of how you might feel and how your anxiety might come
Speaker 3up yeah I think you're absolutely right there is little to maybe no preparation psychologically into motherhood all the focus is on the baby checks mainly isn't it I mean obviously your well-being is checked in on but we're not talking about the baby checks we're talking about the baby checks we're talking about um our own our own nappy in the sense that you know these after we have a baby you know we bleed and but we're talking about the baby checks we're talking about the baby checks about how to put the baby's nappy on but what about all our bits that need actually a bit of um a bit of guidance and all these tiny little things that from those little things to the big things of how am I going to cope with my anxiety what might it bring up what are the triggers what are the signs I think it is an area
Speaker 2that we need more support definitely and I've certainly in the when I've spoken to other mothers it seems to be that we don't we're aware of these things when we're just young free and single but we don't necessarily make the connection that they might begin to show up as our as we become mothers until it happens and then then it tends to show up are you finding now that your parents three children do you does that show up less now I
Speaker 3had um a difficult time after my littlest so he's now 13 months and I had really bad anxiety after he was born not in terms of I was I was able to bond with Lockie and I was totally in that bubble but it was becoming clear that I was feeling very insecure and being able to parent three children when I was feeling so anxious and you know as you've said anxiety has been something that I have lived with for such a long time I know it's my friend in that I know it pops up when it's trying to help me and you know the fight or flight and it and there are appropriate reasons to feel anxiety but when it tips over to the other side and you're not able to function and you're not able to function and you're not able to and you know I was dipping slightly into feeling quite depressed and I'm sure you know a lot of that is my as I was saying you know my hormones after after um having a baby and you know again I I feel very strongly that I want to talk about that on my social media because you know there's a there's a glossy sort of image of what people might assume online that's you know I'm still the same as everyone else every other mother that's facing you know these anxieties through the night and I'm no I'm no different and so why shouldn't we talk about it at Harmony Bank we
Speaker 1believe that better happens together we're a locally owned bank built on relationships and personally committed to your success our community bankers are ready to make quick decisions no big bank bureaucracy just a custom approach to help you thrive from business loans to mortgages and everyday banking needs Harmony Bank provides a secure modern experience with a touch of Texas hospitality we're Harmony Bank where better happens together and I love that because
Speaker 2it's so important for mothers to hear and see that in in as many with as many people as they possibly can because and particularly I think when we look at people who we we perceive as having a very you know you're you're in this you know very happy marriage you've got this these children you're in this sort of sort of pedestal as such there's an assumption that things are easy and and wonderful and glossy and the reality is we're all the same ultimately we still have the same biological mechanisms that doesn't fundamentally change whoever you are absolutely I'm
Speaker 3still the mum at the school gate that wants to make friends with other mums and I'm still the mum at the school gate that wants to make friends with other mums you know I'm still reaching out for for those communities and friendships and and being able to say to someone oh god last night was awful I was up you know three four times with various different children and how are you and you know having a having a moan about whatever it is and and a laugh about the happier things but it's just I think you know in order to balance that on social media it's important to share the trickiest stuff with with the better stuff and and balance it and that and that's what I I try try to
Speaker 2do and how I mean obviously I think being a mother I sort of talk so I feel like we're literally given a bit of a you know this kind of stamp as we birth our first child with the whole mum guilt because it seems to just come as part and package with with with our children how do you tackle that mum guilt because yours is a very visible journey of being a mother yeah
Speaker 3it's interesting because I said to my mum I was like mum I just feel so guilty I was talking about something she went well that never goes you know and we're she's got four grown-up children she's still feeling guilty it is I think it's it's just natural isn't it I mean I have my little boy at the moment has fevers during the night but he's absolutely fine during the day and today I had to work so he's gone into school you know and I'm and I'm thinking oh gosh have I done the right thing it's just it's never-ending or like my little little locky is being looked after by someone else for a few hours whilst I can work I feel guilty about that you know and then and then I feel guilty because there's things I would like to do that I haven't done you know for myself so I think awareness of the guilt is the key so I I don't think getting rid of the guilt is actually possible but it's being aware it's naming it and that it is definitely normal to feel those things and what is it I need to do today to make that feel a little bit easier and maybe as a mother you still need mothering you also need to think about what are the things that you need as a mother I mean I was thinking the other day because my husband's away at the moment and my little list is going through terrible separation anxiety which is quite ironic when I have separation anxiety about my husband not being here so what are the things that I am doing for locky when he is going through it I'm giving him more cuddles I'm making sure he's I'm there I am calm I'm listening to music we're doing these things together whatever it is so I need to nurture that for me too you know why is it because I'm a mother I'm supposed to just be strong and you know just be able to cope we've still got those natural responses in us that make us feel those sorts of emotions and actually looking at it through our children's eyes I find sometimes helps me manage my tricky emotions that's
Speaker 2such a great way of looking at it how do you make sure that that aspect of self-care or taking care of yourself happens because we all know logically people will be listening to this saying oh my god Izzy you're so right I really need to take care of me but in the moment when we're being mum we often forget so how do you manage those things how do you go about making sure that you do take care of
Speaker 3you too yeah I don't always do it enough I think there are things I know that would make me feel better and I think the way that I try and tackle it is just take today for today so if your moment of happiness has been arriving home from the school run and having your hot cup of whatever it is and that gave you a little bit of peace and quiet then that's enough you know you don't need to get to that gym class and go for that run and and tackle whatever other lists that are going on it's the simple things that go back to just your ability to just find a little bit and a lot of that for me ties into mindfulness which has been sort of my anchor through anxiety about the present moment which I find really difficult to do I'm constantly projecting into the future and I get on the thought train and I'm off I'm I'm on that speed train out of here with every possible scenario that could happen or go wrong so bringing mindfulness into my day I try to do and I try to do a lot with my children because they're actually our greatest teachers and being present it's just whether we can can tap into that with them
Speaker 2you were saying that about our children being our greatest teachers and I think really focusing in on being present because children are that's why they experience those big emotions when we say we're not going to do that anymore or we need to do this is they are so living in the present and we're so caught up in the sort of right what's the next thing that we need to do and I know that before when we first spoke about us doing an episode podcast episode together you explained to me something that you do which I love the sound of and I wonder if you could share this about sort of stroking your children's backs and talking about their journey their day can you just explain that because I just think it's such a beautiful thing
Speaker 3yeah so it's called story of the day and I do it on my on the children's back so you you just using your hands play the day out so you might say the sun woke up in the morning and you just sort of do a semi-circle with your hand on the back then we walk down the stairs and you just show your fingers just running down their spine and then we eat our breakfast so sort of like your hand gobbling the breakfast you know and then we walk to school and then I might say but I don't know what you did at school because you didn't tell me and then that might give um them an opportunity to say tell me a little bit about their day so that I can map it out on their back and then we'll talk about coming home and and then we do something called yums and yucks which is what was your yum of the day so what what what was good what good happened today and what was not what was a bit yucky and then that sort of gives them the opportunity if there is anything that they feel they need to talk to me about they can but I find that moment at bedtime is the time that I get most response from them rather than straight after school when they're hungry and overtired but that that lovely moment at bedtime when you can just sort of digest the day and it helps them I think unwind their day and then I do quite a bit of breathing exercises especially with Lola she tends to find falling asleep a little bit difficult and I can really relate to that and breathing exercises we then do together which I find also helps me and they're really simple it's just breathing in for one and breathing out for two and repeatedly and I think if I had known that skill as a child and through my difficult anxiety to to know about the breath and how powerful it is with calming the nervous system I think it would have been really beneficial so you know sometimes I think oh am I am I making it a thing for my children but then I'm thinking that no because these are basic tools to help support them through growing up which is well that's what I hope anyway
Speaker 2no I think you're absolutely right I think we so often focus in as parents because we think that that's the expectation we focus on them hitting certain developmental milestones they're walking they're talking they're putting two words into a sentence they now can recognize their letters and actually we can often forget that the work that we do around their emotions and emotional regulation and breathing are life skills we're equipping them not just for the you know battle that they had with a friend at break time to actually life just generally and set back so I think that that's no I think that's definitely
Speaker 3crucial I was just saying that I feel that on my approach with to my children might to an outsider being when I say outsiders I probably mean older generations but I'm but I'm too gentle but I feel like if I was on an emotional date if I was feeling because my my middle boy kid is an absolute explosion of emotion you never know what you're going to get if I was to respond to him by sending myself by saying go out of the room go over there and deal with this on your own and I think that's a really important thing I think that's a really I wouldn't want that if I'm going through something really tricky I want someone to hold me and and say it's okay let's you know we'll talk this through that's my logical process on this but I don't know whether it's just a change in generation or perhaps what we're more exposed to now but I find that way also helps me feel less uptight because actually in the process of giving him a hug I'm helping myself regulate to then be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to not fire back at him I mean don't get me wrong of course I have my moments where I explode of course we're all human beings it's been going at you all day and they're not listening and you just want them to go to bed so you can go downstairs and have that time for yourself of course we have moments where we explode but I really try to to bring it back to that to that approach where I suppose to just a little bit more mindful and and trying to help regulate emotions no and I think Izzy
Speaker 2you're absolutely right and it's difficult to do in those moments because when our children experience those big emotions it quite often triggers a big emotion in us but ultimately it's thinking about the choice that I make now how is that actually either going to help or hinder the process of them working through this big emotions is it going to help or hinder if I ask them to go off somewhere and deal with that emotion might I remove some of the discomfort that I'm feeling because I now don't have to deal with that big emotion because I've removed them but actually how's it going to help them work through it and what are the repercussions afterwards in terms of unpicking it and I think sometimes we get so worried that by helping our children work through those emotions that we're somehow encouraging them or pandering or being this super permissive parent which it just is not the case
Speaker 3it's really not and I think it definitely I think also when it goes when it goes against what we've been exposed to in our generation it's also tricky when you're thinking oh but I'm I want to try it this way you know I I and and I think one of the other things that I use actually in mindfulness for mums for for us to use is calm begins with me and that is simply where you touch your fingers with so first finger would be calm second finger begins third finger with and then little finger me so calm begins with me or patience begins with me but it's just a little trigger moment for yourself when you're dealing with that moment with a child that is feels overwhelming to sort of trigger you into what do I want from this do I want to respond this way or do I just want to take that moment to just step back and think about why have they suddenly responded in this
Speaker 2way I love that because so often if we can just take that that moment just that process of calm begins with me is enough to give us a different just takes that heat out of that automatic response that we might have yeah and
Speaker 3by practicing these little exercises I'm sure has helped me through using mindfulness I think it's not something that happens overnight but what is so what I what I wanted to share in mindfulness for mums was the ways in which you can do it with your children so instead of it feeling like oh it's another thing to do on my to-do list it's actually things that you can get involved with with your children like bath time there's usually bubbles which is a great sensory exercise to bring our senses back to the moment with the children rather than thinking about everything that you need to try and do once they're in bed or however difficult your day has been to manage suddenly you're there with your children it's bath time um you know what do the bubbles smell like what do they look like um how do they feel let's blow them you know those sorts of things is really and just getting back to your senses is a really grounding way to practice mindfulness the walk to school you know you take the same route every day lola and kit what can you see today that we didn't see yesterday and engage in it yourself too because it's just helping to to re-center us and you're also then able to be doing that with your children and interacting so that I think that's why mindfulness I think what you what you might perceive it to be oh I need to sit down and meditate well I can't do that how do I quieten my mind well your mind will never quieten but those little things you're it's helping you and hopefully your children
Speaker 2yeah I just love because it is about making sure that we stay in those moments and I love that so you should go and check out it's mindfulness for mums and Izzy's book is a really just filled with lots of really practical things that we can do every day and I think you've talked before about this idea that you are have found it I don't know if it's easy as the right word and maybe I've got maybe I'm going to misquote you here but you found it easier to be present in each moment with Lockie in a way because as your third you know with our first we're kind of wishing their developmental milestones and waiting for the next stage in the next stage have you found that you've been able to be more present as with each subsequent child or as the sort of years have gone on yeah
Speaker 3I think it has been searching for a way to be mum searching for the ways that I want to be and learning from experiences of you know before Lockie as I was saying two very different children one child go and put your shoes on they do it another child doesn't you know those those sorts of things that over time I've thought how am I managing this what kind of mum do I want to be what is who am I where have I gone in all this I'm not just mum what else do I want and I think with Lockie I feel like I've finally reached the point that I'm able to to know what it is that I want so I I think it is a process it is definitely a process it's not something that just happens and it's still something I continually work on you know anxiety is never far from me and and it is a challenge and you know some days are really tricky and other days flow a bit easier
Speaker 2and I think that's the nuts and bolts of it isn't it is that acceptance that this journey of parenting isn't always straightforward and that some days we probably feel we're totally acing it we're the best mum ever and then there's other days where we think where where have I gone I just can't get anything right
Speaker 3judgment is such um a thing i think that we're up against and i think social media you know it's got so many positives and obviously things that are not so good and seeing that mum that's you know got the halloween costumes and you know done the baking the cake sale and baked what this birthday cake whatever it is and actually you know that feeling of judgment on yourself and you know i think it's just really important to know that everybody is is going through their own little struggle with it all and nobody is nobody is acing this this is all part of this you know jumble of a road that that being a mum is how do you
Speaker 2manage that is it because obviously you've got a huge following on social media um and you're very honest about your journey you but there'll be a lot of parents you know those who've been listening to my podcast know well enough i'm now no longer on social media at all but that is much more to do with the young people that i'm working with and the reason why i've come off social but as parents quite often you know that can be something that that we'll be actively doing scrolling through our feeds is there anything that you do that helps you whether it's a mantra or something that helps you stay real as you're and the halloween costumes and they're organized for christmas their christmas trees up and their presents are beautifully wrapped all of that stuff how is there something that you do have you got a superpower i
Speaker 3think it's again it's that like i'm saying about when you see somebody pregnant on the street and you you wish the person well you don't know what's going on behind that picture and i suppose it's curating a feed that you feel comfortable with and that doesn't trigger you in certain ways and following the people that that bring you something that you need and you know being online i know that what i produce might not be for everybody you know um but then there are people who write me the most beautiful messages um which means so much to me because i actually get an awful lot of comfort from people reaching out to me you know just saying me too thanks for sharing that you know and there are topics and motherhood that you know are going to create a divide and you have to be careful about some topics that you talk about but all i try to do is be as authentic as i can about my own personal experiences of what i have been going through and if you want someone wants to follow you or if you want to follow that person you do and if it's not bringing you what you want then don't sit there and you know think oh gosh you can't bear that person just don't follow them
Speaker 2very wise very very wise words izzy thank you so much it has been just honestly you've come it's been really wonderful speaking to you and some real grounding things that we can all do and some real honesty from you thank you so much can i just as we end can i ask you given the journey that you've had all the way from the conception challenges miscarriage all the way through to three children and i know you know it's still a journey if there was one thing that you would want to share with people listening today with one thought one thing that they can do what would that be
Speaker 3i just want people to be kind to themselves their minds be kind to others always you know be be gentle on yourself be gentle on yourself you know there is so much pressure and i think being kindness really i think kindness is what makes this world go around and if it's something i want to leave my children that is what i want to do and i think that's what i want to do and i think that is all all i could i could ever wish for them to be kind
Speaker 2that's beautiful well we will leave you with that thought and as you're listening to the podcast maybe that's something that you can think about today it's about just being kind to you to others thank you again izzy huge just really enjoyed chatting to you i
Speaker 3love chatting to you too maryann thank you for having me at harmony bank we believe that better
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