"Real Housewives Was The Downfall Of Our Marriage" PK Paul Kemsley

Welcome to We're Talking! In this episode, I sit down with Paul P.K. Kemsley to talk about his time on the real housewives of Beverly Hills, why he entered the world of reality TV, and what happens when you lose control of your own story. You have a strong relationship, you are married, prior to the show, you have a beautiful child and then even you professionally feel like you're now back. You're not where you were, you're doing okay, you're back. So you now have everything that you want. Why do you get involved in a franchise like that, right, with the real housewives of Beverly Hills? I think there were a lot of reasons. I had a very dear friend of mine who's another one of these super unbelievable kings of industry, this particular guy in the music business, but that is big as you can get. And when we went to LA, he said to me, "There are only three entry points in LA, P.K. Money, power and celebrity." That's what he told me. And I'm like, "Okay." He said, "Well, money, you've got to have the money you used to have, and then even then some, and then build schools and do some of the charitable initiatives that you used to do because I was very involved in charities and stuff." Power, he said, "You've got a studio and a bank being government." So your quickest entry point if you want to live in LA is celebrity. So when he says, "If you want to live in LA," he was talking about the recreation of potentially what I had done previously and knowing that that was the world that I came from. So at that very time, one of the publicists that I was working with, I'm going to give her a name shout because I love her, her name's Dawn Miller. Okay. And she's British girl that worked out of LA. And she said, "Oh, P.K., they're casting for the housewives." Now, I've never seen the show ever. Didn't know anything about it. All I knew was that Lisa Vanderpum, yes, who was my friend, was on it. That's all I knew. Right. And I said to Doree, I think she just had Phoenix. So this was Phoenix is now 10. So this is 10 years ago. Why don't you just go and do a reading, a cast, have a casting. So I loaned up the casting. She came back, said it went horribly. And then three weeks ago, three weeks later, they came back and they said, "We'd like to film you guys at home." Okay. So what I do know is I know how to close a deal. Yes. Yeah. And that could be a real estate wherever. Yes. So I said, right, this is what we're doing. We're filling the house with flowers. We're going to get the most eclectic group of guests around the table. We're going to stick boy jewels in one corner, Pelle and another wherever. Do you know what I mean? We're going to have our friends and we're going to bring in entrepreneurs and it's going to be the richest guy in the room and the poorest guy in the room. And this one can sing, oh, this guy can't see, but he can paint. Everybody. And the backdrop too is because what I understand, I mean, the house was the house was spectacular. The backdrop was great. I knew how to do it. So we did it. And as they say, England, Bob's your uncle. She got the gig now. Whether or not, I mean, I don't know because we haven't seen the end of the movie yet, but I do know that that show was fun until it wasn't. I was blind to what was going on, what was happening. I didn't act soon enough. Okay. And because my personality is a double down guy. I'm not, I don't like walking away from a bet. I used to get this bet right. Yes. Had no regard for the global awareness of this show. None. Literally none. And I think even now you look back 10 years ago, social media and Twitter is not was not then what it is now. Right. Right. Right. The toxicity of it. You know, the fact that a lot of it is not even human beings commenting its bots. And I know a lot, I know a lot about that now. And you know, the rest unfortunately is history and I will maintain that I have absolute accountability for going down that avenue. And I made some very significant mistakes in not acting when I saw it going wrong. Right. So then you know, and I think that when you're asking me these questions, it's got to be about my perspective. Because the week's got her own perspective and I'm not as I've said a million times before and she's the mother of my kids. Right. What she chooses to do and say about me is entirely up to her. Her versions, her perspectives, her truth are her truth. Doesn't mean they're the truth. Right. They're her true. Right. I have my own. Right. I don't want that period of my life to define me. I don't want it to represent because the truth is a lot of it is down to the editing. It is and they create these scenarios that just didn't happen. And the accusations and the rumor and the hearsay and a whip it up and they love it. But there are victims. Yeah. And I'm not calling myself a victim. I'm not a victim. I'm out of it. Yeah. It was uncomfortable. But I don't want our kids to be victims of those decisions. Yes. Do you understand? I don't. And I won't allow that. Right. And I won't allow when I say I won't allow. I'm talking about not in a controlling sense. I mean in an emotional context. I will do my very best to not add fuel to what I'm trying not to allow. Right. Because you're trying to contain a fire. I'm trying to contain a fire. But I'm also saying, okay, well that's not my fire anymore. You want to blow that fire up. You want to create that fire and live in that fire. That's your choice. Right. I choose not to live in that fire. So then from just your relationship with television. If I look at that. So this is season, what is it season seven of Real Housewives 2016? What was initially, what was your feel around reality TV? Because I, what was your take on it? I, first of all, believe that I had the most beautiful charismatic sharp, ferociously ambitious wife. And I wanted to show her off. Okay. And I also felt because I've always been able to control direct storyline businesses. Yes. You know, and I'm wearing control previously. I thought I was in control. Okay. And even it's my simplistic moronic position. And this is like, Al Pico, you really are an idiot. I was like, it's kind of cool to be a celebrity. You get tables at the right time. And you know, I joked about this. I joked about this with James Corden. Right. When he asked me after one year, he said, why do you do that show? I said, well, I didn't want to be in the five to ten club. So he said to me, what, what do you mean? I said, well, when you come to LA and nobody knows who you are and you want to get a table, they offer you five or ten. I said, I see it. So I said, he goes, where are you now? I said eight o'clock. He goes, yeah, I'm 745. He goes, do you know what I mean? And that was kind of funny for me. Also, I'd been in the public worlds, but I've been public for many, many years. So for me, yeah, I don't have my ups and downs with publicity and all that. But I wasn't really on social media. Right. I wasn't aware of what that show can do. And I'm not blaming that show on my divorce or my relationship or who I think Doree is now versus who I think she was or who I am now. I think the biggest question I have that will never be answered is, is that is Doree where she was always going to be and always going to end up or was I responsible for putting her in that world and then that world created what happened now. But there's no question that before we did that, like, if you talk about happy times, I mean, I remember living in Tribeca, we had a beautiful apartment, Doree and me, and then we had the baby. And life was pretty fucking good. You know, I used to have this big TV O's to watch my fucking on a Sunday, direct make dinner on a Friday. We went and saw movies took the baby for a walk. Who drove the bus into the wall? Me. much like I had done many times in my life. But it's kind of like the analogy is if you go by a candy store and then you say to your best friends and your lover and go and have what you want. It's our candy go eat, you can't realize they're going to be consequences to that and you always rely on people to be aware and have certain disciplines and then you lose control of that. You lose control of that whatever it is that thing that keeps moving forward and growing yes in a not always beautiful way and an ugly way and then the show likes to go back and only talk about bad things so then you start reporting on this and that and I'm like well what about that and then they build up this vision of who you are as a person who you are as a couple and you and then you start repeating it or you start believing it and then suddenly you find yourself we're talking about I'm nothing like that guy what are they showing I'm nothing like the person they're showing and then I'm looking at my wife is saying like who you right it's like it's scary when you look at it yes yes and you lose control of that of that thing oh they think so so my wife and I in 2011 way back we were offered a reality TV show to follow our life right yep and I was all for it I was like this is great we should do it my wife said no it it's going to just it'll destroy us because we could lose ourselves and what you're just saying to me is that it's this depiction of you it sounds like what you're saying is that you you lost yourself there is a storyline that's created that's not you it's bits and pieces of who you are who the what the relationship is is it's and then you know I'm in reality TV there's a double down on that storyline we know that if it bleeds it leads so we know that the negative always rises to the top yeah but then I think what's so hard for me with with real housewives in particular is that there's multiple people in the show I'm sure there's a competition for the a no of course yeah the a storyline and that's getting even worse I mean what I see now is fractured relationships fractured friendship broken marriages sadness money issues health issues and they're all doubled and trebled and some of them are steeped in truth and some of them have no truth and and the audience seemed to enjoy watching implosion and then they picked their side and they believe they know what they know because they listen to what somebody's saying I mean one of the weirdest things for me and it took a lot of discipline but I made a decision not to talk about it but I'm not you know we've talked and we've spoken in very generic terms yes you know I'm not gonna come out and start saying that's not true that's not true that's not true that's the how about the whole lot ain't true the whole lot ain't true and the only real victims are going to be the kids so I'm gonna do all I can to protect them and to protect you know their lives and their journeys and I'm not and I do not believe it's in their interests for me to publicly litigate our divorce right will I inevitably have to use the court system I don't know maybe that's avoidable maybe it's not right but the reality is is I know that I'm not free from blame for sure but I'm not controlling the last two years and I wouldn't have encouraged it and I would have strongly recommended in any capacity my capacity is a manager my capacity is a business guy my capacity is a father and a husband if I'd have had somebody would listen I would say that is the wrong thing to do yeah right is that why you left the show no it's not why I left the show I left to read which is why I left the show and we were in a separation and then to read in fairness to her it was a big job and she had to continue and then the Richard decided what narrative she'd do and at the point that she was doing that listen I'm not in that world anymore I'm you know I'm involved in business thank God again and I'm doing some great stuff and I'm out of that world now but it's part of it's the light spend the last 10 years of my life and you know I don't think anybody can sit there and say they're nothing to do yeah I mean cause I'm part of the problem for sure yeah do I feel it's been fair and justified no I don't there are periods but I know it's not fair yeah do you have to still own the shit don't you I mean who started it you know you do stuff I didn't realize how much it would affect me emotionally and drain me and put me back into a place that I didn't want to be do you understand so then you say well how do you get out of this how do you get out of this place fight your way out joke your way out how do you get out of it and I didn't manage to if you could take us back there if you're willing to talk about the darkest moment so that we can understand how you felt and what was driving that that emotion for you I think there were a lot of dark moments I think this sense of for me this inability that I experienced to to be clear I had no clarity I was I had no clarity with my marriage with that show with business I couldn't focus that's when I decided to blame it on drink so right I'll give up drink and that will get me clear and actually there was enormous clarity when I did that and but I also learnt out learnt that that was some the issue the issue was me and delving into all of the mistakes that I'd always made seeing myself making the same mistakes having that sense of deja vu thinking about loretta and the kids and the distance it was too much distance between me and my older kids I mean thank God it's all but I was too absent I didn't want to be absent this time around and then I was being accused of being absent I wasn't absent right but I think I was absent in terms of my ability to address how I was actually feeling I actually made myself second I didn't I still don't but I didn't love myself I didn't I didn't respect myself I was just doing it for this thing I lost even any thought as to why I was doing it and you just say something perfect so today as you said do you love yourself not yet are you proud of yourself nope do you respect what you've created nope you don't not yet I'm aware of what I created people like you who show me respect and you know and I know really beautiful words say this is amazing what you do but no I'm not there yet you're not there Pika right you know essentially what when you came in before you came in I was talking to different people I'll get ready interview P.K. and I'm just bragging about you thanks that that that is a bit shocking to me that you don't love yourself not yet how can I at the moment in terms of I'm always I'm always in a situation it's like at the moment I'm in this divorce situation you know my kids I'm worried about them I'm worried them about them being affected I don't see this noise stopping the only way I can stop it is to remove myself from it I even was asked last night why am I doing this interview I said I don't I don't really know I mean London I guess I've got a storage tell you ask me at the beginning maybe I my lessons maybe my journey can help someone else right yes but I haven't finished my journey and I definitely don't sit there in the mirror and go love you P.K. you know that you read all you have to start loving yourself put yourself first I'm not there yet I'm not will I get there I hope so I hope I really hope so and it's yeah you people are inspired by some of the things I've done I think that I have a few ways to get better that I've not managed to do yet right I know that I'm very affected emotionally and I'm very sensitive to for example social media commentary people are so vile and as it happens on my own feed people are beautiful very rarely but I've still had to block 1900 people in the last 12 months you know they write terrible things and then you say well why are you even reading it so the secret is definitely definitely not to read it but I because of the addictive nature of my personality it's difficult to do and I'm getting better at it 100% don't even watch the show anymore they'll watch it and I but but I can't avoid the clips and the trailers and the the track and the papers what they say and everybody around you the people you love are affected yes you know people don't realize my mom you know my dad's eight eight yes to listen to his daughter-in-law speaking out she's speaking and it affects him yes so now he's trying not to see it yeah I'm used his eyes are going so now he can't see it so it now is it's hard but the fact I think that's something that a lot of people don't realize it's incredibly nasty and unkind to troll but the ripple effect that it creates in that person's life their parents their children yeah it's unfit and we've protected our kids but I've always said to Dari don't do this the kids are gonna read it at some point don't do it but I'm not in control of her decisions right and she's not in control of my decisions um are there from what you if only if you'd like to to say this are there any storylines from the show that are particularly challenging for you that you want to address not really I mean I don't think that I need to address storylines on the real housewives of Beverly Hills I think I'm better off to focus on my own healing my own growth I mean I look Mauricio is one of my great friends now so I took a beautiful friendship out of that out of that show yes beautiful friendship transparent honest we share and we don't have any secrets such a great guy inspirationally in business but the world's got an opinion of him based on the show so that was a gift from the show I got a great friendship funny enough out of one of the producers Alex Baskin the big one okay I consider him a true friend of my great guy so there have been some wins you know you know in terms of friendships but everything else now it's not great would you ever do reality TV again it depends on what context so it depends what you call reality TV if I thought it was a positive uplifting beautiful thing to do that was gonna help other people and be fun and funny and humorous and we got into a serious mode in this thing but I like to joke around I like to mess around yeah I do that yeah and if you want to hear the full unfiltered stories from today's guest you can check them out we need to talk page drop a like leave a 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