"RE-RELEASE: Ben Affleck"

boy you know i just can't get enough of that opening song i just think it's just great it's under our voices right now can you hear it right under us right yeah that just kind of gets me going oh i'm being real boy but i know it's super well you always call me a robot it's kind of like my little theme song i know right yeah yeah it is like a little thing for a little robot thing but it's playing underneath us right now it's gonna kick in in a second kick it in three two one now uh so we had a little record earlier today and now we're having our second record there was a gap in between where lunch usually sits and i always whenever this happens i'd love to know what sean had oh good i had uh chicken curry with rice and uh cauliflower and sweet potatoes and then i had a huge bowl of ice cream after wait you had chicken curry with rice yeah i did not i did not know that uh chef we already made that all right that's funny yeah but you see i didn't change i still i'm still in my smartless merch shirt yeah smartless merch there's some good stuff in there there i was uh i guess i shouldn't be surprised because we looked at it all before it went in there but let me tell you something i slept in this shop shop smartless.com it's the best oh it's it's it's sleepable is that what it is wait is it shop smartless.com for real shop smartless.com yeah what's it again sorry sean what'd you say shop smartless.com it's great it's i'm telling you you sleep in the sweats you put the hat on when you roll out of bed it's great who um did you design the blanket those big heavy blankets you did right you wanted to design them but i what's that you wanted the heavy blanket i wanted the heavy blanket because i have an issue with a throw blanket a throw blanket covers one leg right so i never understood the the the function of a throw blanket no i'm saying i like it because it's it's it's weighty yeah it's weighty and it's big it covers your whole body and it's uh it's like um what do you call it uh warm fleece like fleece i guess is it yeah hey by the way yeah you know what i did oh definitely whisper yeah that's gonna be for scotty i got him a surprise i got john williams the composer yeah to sign a page of the et score for scott how'd you do that a friend of mine knows his friends with his daughter and then we just kind of made it happen are you guys good at that are you good it sounds like you are sean where you you sort of like you remember what your your friend or partner or kid or whatever he really loves and you work on it for a few months yeah and you get the perfect gift like do you do that i love doing that yeah really yeah hey will you don't need to go up high like everybody in the world does it except you jason i don't do it so that's why exactly yeah it's true he's will is will will's very good at throwing money at a gift you know sean and i am very good at that you're very good at that where sean you you'll do sort of a sentimental thing or i remember you said in july that what you wanted for christmas was that's right like i clocked i clocked last year yeah for um for maple's birthday she said she just mentioned that she loved skateboarding so i got her skateboard or a certificate for a skateboarding thing yes and we went and spent the hell out of that did you remember that's how she broke all her teeth remember thanks sean yeah remember that time she broke her arm and all her teeth came she had to spit her teeth out that's why she's got those flippers now and we've got this memory of her and she takes her teeth out every night she thinks of you when she has to take him out by the way though back to the ice cream thing yeah i didn't tell you this jay last episode we recorded you we talked about you having their what is it called the root root canal yeah i had a cavity you had one and i just got yeah just last week and i got a crown not possibly your first no oh my god i have so many but it's 52 years old i have a cavity oh they're gonna start coming fast and furious that is strange let's take a look at your diet um but what what is strange about things on your body degenerating as you get older i have a cavity and i brush and i do everything so it's like teeth teeth don't play by that because they're sitting in sugar all day yeah i will say this you're having ice cream when you're having dessert for lunch yes you have a situation he had dessert for breakfast the other day hey i i did have a thing um where my one of my favorite sweeteners that i use i don't want to say which one uh with my coffee because i thought oh i'm not having sugar for a few years i've been using a sweeter and i see that one of its ingredients this study came out yesterday a huge like uh strokes and heart attacks and yeah oh i saw that yeah yeah really i know fuck yeah i'm so fucking bummed well so you don't want to say this publicly since it's already public well just because it's an other so i don't want to call out the one particular brand yeah yeah it's being reported on or whatever yeah oh so the sweet the the the the sweetening component is the problem not the brand right one of the ingredients so then what is the ingredient do you remember because i want to know if i'm agave no is it agave it's a lot of it's in a lot of the sort of stevia centric sweeteners have it in there yeah yeah is that is that what you're using yeah i'm mainline stevia yeah so so a lot i don't know if pure i don't know but i know that some of them have it in anyways guys i know real uplifting huh all right let's get are we ready for our guest oh i guess let's get to the guest before i die let's get it done at least we'll know why i got it i gotta say i get some of the best guests this guy has had not right this intro did you write this intro this is the intro yeah did you write it of course i didn't yeah this guy hasn't that has had not one but two songs written about him by a huge pop star most would agree he's hollywood royalty being an academy award-winning filmmaker a heavy-hitting movie star who's portrayed a very famous dc comic book character on screen multiple times i know most of them are going to be a very famous dc comic book character on screen multiple times i know most of them are going to be a who all around great guy that i'm so happy to call a friend who i love a whole bunch and i know you fellas do too please welcome to smart list mr benjamin gaza affleck bolt benjamin oh no no there he is oh i love him i love him very nice for a second how did sean get you and i don't god damn it because i like him and he's a great guy you are a good actor i always feel like i'm liked when i'm around you where are you are you in the basement i'm in my lair okay because crime might need to be fought oh god yeah wait what songs have been written about you dear ben and dear ben part two about me i've been written by the greatest jennifer lopez performer in the history of the world jennifer lopez i don't know that they're exactly so much about me as maybe inspired by because you know because there's some negative things so they're aimed at you i was she's amazing yes can you imagine and also i also there is a third song written about me but not by anyone gifted uh jimmy kimmel wrote a song about me called i'm fucking ben affleck oh wait did uh did he really did jennifer write the songs about you during or when you weren't dating jennifer you know what jason uh-huh i just want to know if they're happy songs over and i tell you if you want to ask jennifer about her career if you're interested in her work go ahead and screw your courage and ask her i learned a lot about uh about her with that great documentary i love that that was really cool yeah everybody watched that that was very good incredible yeah and by the way that's the first time i know we're going to interview you in just a second but jennifer lopez who was on will and grace twice or three times or whatever was she on will and grace that's funny and i was i was i not one two no times no you were this is the story of my life i wasn't yeah but she was but that documentary blew me away because i was like my god the what the woman has accomplished is astounding yeah and she's just it takes a big man not to feel inadequate in the face of my wife's many but um but no but she's but you too you too you've you've accomplished oh i don't feel bad about myself it's not so i'm not low self-esteem i'm not well i i'm fishing a little bit but nothing no the truth is it's amazing sometimes i think i like completely i don't feel bad about myself i don't feel bad about myself i don't completely forget because here's this incredible actress and this incredible performer and then we're sitting in the car you know and i'm humming along like i will you know the radio and then a professional singer goes ahead and you know sings along and you kind of feel like well that's embarrassing yeah maybe i should just zip it do you know all her music don't lie i do know uh can you sing all of her songs not to you no but you know them though like you can't i can't i can't get a j-lo song past you that you haven't heard waiting for the night oh i that's the remix there it is that's like when sean does it sound kind of sounds like share is doing a re-sing like a share waiting for yeah i think for us with a go now you're making me self-conscious like oh gosh if i were on like jeopardy would i miss a question but i do love her music it's brilliant and i know doesn't uh all of it thank you jason don't put him on the fucking spot like a dick fuck you don't even remember your wife's birthday yeah no i'm pretty sure it is surprising now wait a second now ben uh hi hi ben like ben affleck's on here i don't really great don't know each other thank you somebody yes hi i don't have the pleasure of knowing you but everybody who knows you likes you a great deal and it's often like bateman you he's doing something with bateman which is really so i mean it's surprising that yeah it is it is surprising and as you know uh yes so you but you and jason have known each other for a number of years yeah i've known just a long time and i had the chance to do like now four movies with the guy i know and by the way the trailer for air looks incredible looks amazing for your guy for the new movie you guys did that you've invited jason to be part of and any regrets and you can be honest now you can be if you have regrets about i gotta tell you i mean usually and i hate you know when people come on shows and they're like you know you're great no but what you bring because it's just so fucking boring to listen to and you have to but i'm gonna do it and let me tell you why because it's actually true and i've lied so many times you that it's nice to get the chance jason is fucking amazing guys let him finish and has our jason has the hardest part in the movie which is the part where you're supposed you're the guy who's like but if we don't make it to the train station by six you know the whole time you know it's constantly having to tell the audience what the stakes are look out what's gonna happen turn right and somehow like made himself you know the most i think like the most uh you know compelling real you're drawn it's brilliant a lot of it i love improv and funny and a lot of it's just humanity but it's jason's brilliant and it was such a i was really lucky because that it's what matt did very easy you're the lead and you're that guy and you have those lines exactly you know what this scene is this is me looking out the window yes music yeah that's gonna help you that's the wind at your back i was the one working do you know by the way you should know ben that we were at we we watched uh the super bowl at at kimmel's and oh yeah i have a problem this is a problem hang on so we're watching and and at that moment that the that the ad for your movie came on jason and we're sitting there and jimmy happened to kind of drift in right between us and then i said hey quiet everybody here's the here's the the the commercial for the big movie and jason's all excited and then there was just a silhouette for a second and then nothing silhouette and then jason's daughter goes dad i thought you were in that movie in front of my kids ben that can't be true well it's a true story right jason is that true it's a true story but listen there's many different i mean it's my fault in the sense that i did see it and not notice but it's not my fault in the sense i didn't make it and let me can i talk to your daughter this is your daddy's very good this is all and he's all a joke but it was it was actually pretty funny it was like hey i thought you were in that and everybody goes back to their chips and watching other i've been there you know i mean things aren't panning out in your career and you've been in the movie and all of a sudden you're like i i think i show up in this no the worst no the worst is when you're at the premiere and they go past the point where you know your big scene was and it's it's now gone and they've moved on and you're like oh i guess that was cut you're like mom no this is where i have the monologue oh maybe it comes later now i don't know maybe it's during the credits i saved it for during the anyway i'll do it for you at home it'll special features yeah so ben talk to me a little bit about you know we had matt who came and joined us on um on tour he came to madison wisconsin when you think madison wisconsin you think matt damon that's the thing about matt is he'll always do something nicer than me hey what you're doing is great you know matt went a whole lot further no no no great no but we did but we talked to him about about how you guys started how you guys knew each other back in the day and what that was like when you guys kind of yeah it was really cool yeah it was it was great really hearing from him and i and i'd love to hear your perspective of how you guys and i'm sure you told it a million times so forgive me if it's if it's boring but for us it's really i love that story and i told matt i remember we made this really bad um i say bad but my friend wrote but this really uh pretty chintzy version of a movie called southie and you guys came to the wrap party that i was in and then you guys were about to do goodwill hunting and then our movie was like they buried it under a couch and then you guys went on to like amazing but i just love the beginnings of what you and matt did and i want to hear it from you uh because i think it's a great story by the way i had no idea you guys grew up so close to each other no idea yeah we did first of all it's like it's a really lucky thing it occurs to me now i saw him the other day we're doing this movie together very few people are lucky enough to spend their life in the same line of work with their best friend from when they were kids managed to you know stay friends not end up hitting each other actually be friends and love each other and not have one of them soar to the stratosphere and the other one be have nothing that was brief but no no but i'm saying like that's like that's what usually happens the fact that both you guys are superstars yeah um so in context the reason we're asking this hacky question is because in air the film that we're talking about ben for the very first time directs matt i love it it's full circle i love it i love it yeah i mean it was something that seemed really normal that i took for granted because there we were we were kids who he was a bigger kid uh for a brief period i was eight he was 10 he was a big kid he played baseball he was really cool he had a bowl cut that was a little feathered that we all wanted of course and he and he was um you know nice to me and we were both interested in the same i mean just just kids who and both wanted to be actors uh for whatever reason it is that makes you want to do that thing and hung out and then we're in the same the same friend group and then sort of went off and did like oh let's you know we're just like dumb and enough to think like it'll pan out for us we'll just go be actors we'll just go work you know and and kind of sort of believe in it and then live together but i think the reason why it wasn't a thing that sort of competition thing that you talk about is because we did a lot of auditioning very early on for for for the mickey mouse club for example uh i think maybe for some of jason's early work uh gosling got the mickey mouse job he did he was one of them because we did we uh uh a corey hame film called soul man i remember we both auditioned for we did we we both auditioned for robin and the the cluny uh movie no way uh-huh yeah we were extras together all the time matt did mystic pizza he had a line in that i didn't get it Always the thing was we would get our little act together and practice our scenes and do our workshop. I mean, nerdy doesn't even begin to describe it. Really? But it really was a genuine thing where we were like, look, I hope I get the part. But if I don't, I really hope you do. And, you know, for a while we had this thing where we were like, well, just split all our money. You know what I mean? Oh, you guys have high voices. We like had, oh, you know. Did you really say that? We really did. And we really split the money. No way. We split the bank account. At the time, I was making the lion's share of the money. No way. How old were you? Yes, I am. We had a joint bank account. I think I was 14. Matt was 16. Oh, that's cool. We put money in the ATM and then it's like, okay, what do you want to get? I saw you made a big withdrawal last weekend. Joking as much as you are, but it does show that on a certain level there is a trust there that you guys just trust each other implicitly, that there's just, right, that that's on a very basic level. I like took for granted that he liked me and rooted for me and wanted me to succeed. We just didn't, we're lucky enough not to have the friendship of that, the whole, like, it's not enough that I succeed. All my friends have to fail thing. Like, and I, there are people I've wanted to fail. Like, I can be just as petty and bitter as any other actor, but I loved him and he loved me and it felt like we would work the scenes together. And, you know, it actually, I think what made us sort of good writers and better actors was that we learned very early on to hear, like, I'm not sure that works. That choice, you know, and you go, okay, let's try something else, you know, and get our facts, our sides. Let's try a lower voice. Do you ever give that note? That, I had to hit puberty. So wait, but you, but when you say you grew up, you grew up together in Boston, right? But you were born or raised in California. Like, what's the California thing? I was born in California. My parents were at a, uh, teaching at a, like an experimental school outside Berkeley briefly. And then actually my mom and yes. And then I moved back to Boston around two. Or three, I moved into, uh, um, uh, uh, central square in Cambridge and then Matt moved there from Newton when I was eight and he was 10 and that's when we met at, at the bay at the basket. And you got a burger King commercial. That was your very first thing. Listen, I had done a burger King commercial. Okay. The, the, I'm sure you remember the law, the slogan was sometimes you got to break the rules. Yeah. Oh yeah. A little bit of a rule breaker. I really quick. I did it. I did it. These guys are gonna love this. I did a McDonald's commercial. It was like one of those things where I worry, I w I worried about how I was going to impress a girl. And the catchphrase from my guy scene partner was don't worry about it. I was like, how am I going to pay for the date? Don't worry about it. That's my story. So wait, go back to the bird. Holy shit. You're good. What the fuck are you doing? You're going to get fired one day Sean. Ben's got a head of steam going. You're going to be out of the job. There's so much movement. You'll be without a podcast. One of these days. There's no fucking punchline. Out of gas. Jesus. Boy. Sorry. Go ahead, Ben. Anyway, let me just, can I regroup? Ben, take all the time you need. Shake it over. Wait. And then you think he's crying. So I've established that we were very nerdy and a little weird. We used to have business lunches in what was called the media cafeteria. Amazing. Which at the time, there was a big ESL portion of our public high school, which was like 2,600 kids, and that was where the ESL kids – I don't know why that was where we – we liked to be surrounded by people who spoke other languages. I'm not sure what it was, but maybe we didn't want anyone to actually hear our business lunches because no business was conducted. But we plotted things. We planned our careers. But look at you now. Look at the business you guys are in now. Artist equity, yes? Yeah. Yeah, it is bizarre to have gone this far. And definitely a lot of – I don't think I would be sane to the extent that I am had I not had somebody who was from where I grew up and who was my best friend and who was going through the same thing. So you could – because I'm sure you guys all know there are these moments in this business where you look around and go, like, is this completely insane? Yeah, every day. I feel as though, you know, I'm coming unglued. And having that one – someone to share that perspective. And then so as we went on and on, until finally we got to a place where, like with Last Duel, it's like, why haven't we just – we had so much fun. Every day on that set was so much fun. And we're just like, let's just do this. Let's just do movies together and with people we like. And we will be – we'll be right back. And now, back to the show. Going back, the first thing that kind of launched was – was it Dazed and Confused or was it something before that? And what's the story about Vince Vaughn? He's asked a two-parter there. You can take them one at a time or you can ask him to repeat it when he just – I get excited. I get excited. I know it. I know it. I ever write these things down? We didn't crap in the pre-interview the Vince bit. I don't know where you're going with that. No, but I heard – I do know – Yeah? I do know that we – that we – I had done a couple of – I was the more experienced. I don't want to make Matt feel insecure. Sure. I had some early experience with professional acting. You're selling burgers, you know? Well, not only did I sell burgers, but I don't know if you know your public television history. I was on a show, Voyage of the Mimi. No, Voyage of the Mimi. Yeah. Science. It was also shown to sixth graders for their science class because I think – because it was so gripping. And a young boy and his grandpa renting out a boat to scientists for experiments. Yeah. And so I would periodically go off and do a little Voyage of the Mimi. So Matt was a little threatened by that. And when I got to the high school, he kind of pulled me aside. And he said, listen, man, all right? This is the theater. It's not about your looks, okay? It's about the work. And I took that very seriously. And I felt that I was hearing something, you know, real, like, the words of wisdom from a guy who understood it. I didn't know until that time he felt I'd been entirely bogarting my way through life on, like, wit and charm. Of which there were very few. Well, but no, it sounds like actually you came roaring into high school just killing it. Yeah, you were crushing it. And Matt, I mean, by the way, I mean, again, no insult to Matt, but it sounds like he felt threatened by you, Ben. And I want to just – I think maybe he was a little insecure. The other thing he said to me was like, you know the thing about Hoffman and Salesman is you can see the wheels turning, but he wants you to see the wheels turn. Matt Damon, 15 years old. No way. That's hysterical. That's a true story. That's fucking amazing. However, I – That's why he's brilliant. Because that guy has been absolutely convinced and has paid attention to, like, you know, very little else in his free time other than acting. Since he was a little kid doing Wheelock Community College theater when he was 11 years old. And he's been with absolute conviction that this is what he was going to do. And he – He was a lot smarter about it than me. He understood a lot earlier on. He was like, it's just all about the director. I'm just going to focus on the director. He was, like, passing on parts when we were broke. I said, what are you passing on? You can't pay the gas bill. What's, like, this – How is this not good enough for you? Because he didn't like the director? Yeah, he just didn't feel – He didn't have anything to offer, you know? Wow. And it was like that. I was – I'm like, I'm doing after-school specials about steroid abuse and you're passing on, like, movies. That's pretty great. But I will say this. You gave him a piece of advice that he has since paid for and given and he let us in on it last year when he came to join us, which was apparently you said to him, if somebody asks you to do something down the road, imagine that the thing – You know, we get it all the time. Hey, will you come and do this six months from now and come and show up at this thing? Imagine that you would have to do it tomorrow and then let that be your answer. Yeah. If you don't want to – If you don't want to do it tomorrow, say no. If you don't want to do it tomorrow, say no. Yeah. I did give him – I never thought that was particularly wise. I just thought, no, it's the greatest ever. Because Matt was constantly saying yes and then be like, hey, man, can you call them and tell them I'm sick? Right. Yes. And that's bullshit. It's amazing. I've told minimum 50 people that piece of advice as if I came up with it my own and they have – people love it and have latched onto it. Right, JB? We've talked about it all the time. I live it. I did it today. I got asked to do something like three months from now that sounds kind of interesting. That would be kind of fun. But then I thought, well, actually, if it was on the calendar for tomorrow, would I wish that it was canceled? If the answer is yes, pass. Pass. I love that. You know, the thing about that that I can't completely co-sign, like my dirty little secret is I might pass on everything. Right. Did you think about – Like I almost never want to get off the couch. Did you think about this show today, about passing on this show? Oh, I mean, I was a half hour late, wasn't I? Yeah. They had to talk you out of it. So for the guy who likes to do nothing except sit on his couch every day like I do, I find it interesting that you're actually able to get up and work as hard as I think anybody could possibly work when it comes to directing. Like that's a really, really all-encompassing job. So are you like me where it's like either all or nothing? I'm either working full or out. I think you and I have that in common, yes. And I think that – part of it is it's a little bit like – it's more sort of social things. Like I feel actually kind of shy. I don't really want to go say hi to people. It feels a little bit like, oh, I'm going to – you know, something's going to happen. It's going to make me feel awkward. But I love directing movies. And that movie in particular was the best experience I've had. Directing is hard and terrifying. And at first I thought like, okay, even if I don't know anything about this, I know that I can at least work harder than everybody else. And so I thought, well, you put in 20 hours. You work 20 hours a day and that's what you do. And it made it excruciating and I got migraines. But like to the extent that the movies, you know, I was happy with, I thought, well, it must be because I worked 20 hours a day and did nothing else and thought of nothing else. And eventually realized that you don't quite have to do it that way. And that actually this movie, which is my – the favorite movie I've ever made, I love this movie. It benefits entirely from the writing and acting of Jason and Matt and Chris and Viola. And Chris Messina and Matt Mayer. But it was so much fucking fun every day. Well, it's your fault. I mean, well, we don't have to do a whole thing on the kind of set you run and your talent and everything. But it was – No, no, no. We can actually – Do we have 20 minutes? It was actually incredibly easy. Guys, we shot this down the street. We shot it in a business, in an office building that – we're supposed to be in an office building. So they basically – we just flipped the lights on. Now, that's to take nothing away from Bob Richardson, who is like the best DP in the history of movies. But it was very fast. I think after – wasn't it after like seven days we were already three days ahead? Yeah, we – Something like that? I wanted to go quickly and then you and Matt showed up. And like having not directed Matt, I didn't appreciate – when you're a director, right, you have your plans. You're worrying about all these other things. Yes, you're worrying about the performances. But I thought, okay, well, I won't have to worry about the performances. And I'll just worry about all the other sort of bullshit I'm doing that I think is relevant when really the actors are the only thing the audience is paying attention to. And like, you know, camera moves and that kind of thing. And Jason and Matt are such pros that – I mean, it was like a dance to watch these two guys together. They've done it so much and so well so that as soon as you start to feel the dolly is laid, it's not going to be – all of a sudden Jason's looking in his pocket for something that might be behind him. And Matt looks behind him and all of a sudden he makes – maybe a little more mournful choice on that line delivery because it's going to give him an extra half step to the turn to where he knows the steadicam's going to come around. The two of the guys – Yeah, yeah, yeah. I started feeling like you're making it for me. Stop doing this. It's so fun. I love that. It really was amazing to see. In fact, it got to the point where because Bob's crew and everyone was so good, they started anticipating and trying to – and then the guys who were really good and women who were doing it were like – it started to just speed up and finally I was like, Matt and Jason don't do their job for him. You don't have to do everybody's job. Yes, I know, you're great at it, but just worry about the scene because I think they kind of started having fun with it because they had oners and you'd have to see this and Matt and Jason would know, like, you're probably going to want that magenta in the background. And I thought you'd like the window. And I was like, you son of a bitch. Yeah, I did want the window. I didn't think I was that transparent. Did you – can you remember having any sort of significant creative negotiation with Matt either in the writing process or in the directing process. like giving him a note that he didn't want to take or writing a scene that he thought was kind of fine already? Because didn't you have the writing process, like Good Will Hunting and Back in College, where you would. Well, they won an Oscar. You would, what, you would talk about it or improv it and record it? We recorded it, yeah, on what were audio cassettes at the time. Kids, those were small brown tape cassettes. No, really? We put in devices. Wait, really? You guys talked out the script? Yeah, because we never thought of ourselves as formal writers. We had a great teacher, a drama teacher in high school, who taught us kind of sort of writing, directing, acting, and didn't sort of put them in distinct silos. So we would actually end up making plays, which I later realized we would act, write, direct them in effect, but we just thought we would improvise them and kind of distill them down and find a story. Such a great idea. So that's just how we know how to do it. This person did you such a favor by doing that, by sort of putting it all together, right? There's no question without Jerry Speck or Matt or I or my brother or Matt. Or Matt Mayer or Max Casella or Anika Larson or all the people that came out of the program who are working and who are terrific would, I think, be working because he taught us that and he taught us to not take ourselves seriously, respect other people, but take the work that we were doing incredibly seriously. And that was like that kind of, and there's that like great time of life when you have the older person who's the mentor who you look up to, who's doing the thing you want to do, who says, this is meaningful. But you really have to work hard at it. And so we did. Ben, is that, that's it? So that was a teacher that you guys had at your public high school that you went to? High school, yeah. I mean, our public high school just lucked out and got this guy who was a genius. That's so amazing. And he was amazing for kids that didn't even end up wanting to be in theater. And he was, I could do a whole thing on him. But the truth is, I think that's part of why I learned to be collaborative is that Matt and I never fought or argued about stuff. It was always that we, and we never got our feelings hurt because most of the ideas are bad. So I'll have a bad idea, he'll have a bad idea. I'll have a bad idea, he'll have a bad idea. I'll have an idea, but that's a little bit maybe better. And then Matt, that kind of keys something in Matt that's mediocre. And so we know we're building from there and it's never about, and then it just becomes about like finding the best thing until both of us feel like it can't be improved. And we kind of go like, and if there is a kind of difference of opinion, it always ends up coming down to who cares more. Yeah. I'll go, Matt, I don't know. I really think this, this is about the, and he's like, man, that, and I go, all right. If you don't want to do it more than I want to do it, then we're not going to do it, you know? Or if I want to do it more than you don't want to do it, we're going to do it. Like, that's just common. Amanda and I try to live by that. There she is. Oh, look, it's Jennifer. Special guest star. There she is. Hi. She can't hear us. Hi. Hi, Jen. Hi. Hi, guys. You were just doing very well. We were talking about you in very favorable terms and so was your husband. Oh, thank you. I was singing some of your, I was singing some of your songs back to you. Oh, sing. Please sing. We're waiting for the night. Oh! Oh, my love. It's waiting for tonight. Waiting for tonight. Oh, that's the mic drop right there. But thank you. She crushed it. But thank you. We're lucky that we're actors. That is brilliant. Thank you for saying hi. Yes, of course. Bye, Jennifer. We're looking forward to doing this with you guys. Oh, good. I love you. There's, there's the part that will make the show. By the way, we just bypassed, Jason, I didn't know this term, creative negotiation. Yeah. Way to take the art out of it, man. You fucking find a way every fucking time. Just business, my friend. No, no, you have to negotiate. Canal Street. How much for the batteries? Hey, Picasso, how much paint did you use? How many cubic liters of paint did you use? That's the beautiful thing. Just take the fucking art out of it, baby, and fuck you. You see, Picasso, you've never had to negotiate with anybody because it's just a single thing. Well, what we're doing is like team stuff, right? That's true, that's true. So you've gotta always negotiate. There is a lot of negotiation. I mean, the lucky thing is when you don't have to negotiate. When you go like, you know, you do something, you write it, you give it to him, and then Jason sits down and reads the scene, and like, he made me cry on this. And then you feel like a jerk because you feel like that guy who just like, was it Marty Short or whatever, who used to go, and then, you know, you just want to give one of those. What was the name of that character? Who played Jim? - Jiminy Glick? - Jiminy Glick, yeah, yeah. - Jiminy Glick, I just watched him last night. - It was just always overwhelming. - I have a question! Mr. Affleck! Do you? And then he goes, "Don't." It's the funny thing. - So to wrap up the Matt stuff, and we'll leave him out of the rest of the interview, but the, 'cause we've had enough of Matt, right? I mean, Will, with you, with your wordle-quirtle and squirtle every morning. - I want to get in on that. And Matt was like, "You're not ready." - No, you don't. - I was like, "Well, I'm not ready." - He said it. - I removed myself from it. - Jason dropped out. He couldn't take the heat. - No, it's not the heat. - Yeah. - It's Will likes to tell you how much better his score could have been had he done X, Y, or Z. It's like, the guy-- - Anyway, that's really-- - Wait, wait. I wanted to close the Matt part of it. - Yes, yeah. - Tell for the, and you could, I know I would love to do a full podcast with you about artist equity and all the sort of studio economics that you're-- - I would invite me back. They told me you didn't even want to do this one. - It would put our audience to sleep. So for those that have narcolepsy, do the quick version of generally what the kind of-- The concept is what you guys are doing versus what exists and why that makes sense for you guys doing this since you're buddies and you want to kind of spread that kind of buddy feeling in the process. - It's a tough elevator pitch and I over-talk and go on too long. So it's a bad combo. - Sean will cut you off. Don't worry. - Basically what it is is like over the years, as I'm sure you have, we start to kind of know, like there's money that gets spent on things that don't end up making the movie any better. And the more money that you spend on what you do, the more obligation you have, the sort of more risk there is and the less likely people are to do things that you consider more interesting and they want to be more conventional. And then I looked around and I just, as a director, started to really understand and value the people on the crew who made such a significant difference to the quality of what you're doing, both in terms of speed and in terms of the environment and the way in which you're able to perform it. I'm a big believer that the performance really ultimately is what draws people in and the performance and the writing. And so we came up with this idea, never thinking anyone would ever actually fund us, to do a movie studio that was predicated on two things. Basically allowing the crew and the artist being the writer, and I consider the crew the artist, which is the whole group, actors, directors, writers, so on, as well as cinematographers, sound mixers, everybody, who collectively create the value in what we're doing to benefit from the upside of it in a really meaningful, significant way, but also to be responsible for it. In other words, listen, if it goes over, you're gonna get less. If it comes in under, you're gonna do better, but all of us have to make it good, otherwise we're not gonna get anything. And sort of treat people like grownups, believe they can be accountable, and also believe that, you know, because incentives have not historically been aligned between the people financing movies, traditionally, and the people making them always. - Right, right. - And so without going into too great a detail, the idea was like, and let's separate this out from like, what is the value of a movie? Well, usually they'll use comps. Like, well, what's the budget? And what did you make on your last movie? And especially now, 'cause there's no back end and no gross, that's sort of it, right? - Right. - Well, I've always felt that was akin to going into the Apple store and saying, I'll tell you how much I give you for the iPhone. When you tell me how much you paid for the iPhone, I'll tell you how much you paid for the iPhone. And I'll tell you how much I paid for the iPhone. on so that we could be an entity significant enough to take on the entire creative responsibility of developing producing shooting and delivering the movie and in exchange we got to say look this is what it's going to cost it won't cost a dime more than that if it goes over we pay for it but you have to sort we're going to be the ones who take on the burden the role of saying we're going to deliver something good if it's terrible it's our fault um and but you're going to sort of um put your trust in us to be able to do this i'm sure whatever partners that we we work with they're excellent brilliant people distributing and marketing movies we don't do that uh we don't want to do very many movies but we want to just really make good movies with people we like i love that and that's it and and we think you should be people should be paid more for for what they you're basically taking on the financial risk by by funding the production effectively and then you're saying we don't need you you don't get the leverage financier uh by giving us the money to make it assuming that we don't have it to make it we actually do we're going to spend the money to make it and we're basically coming to you and saying we'd like to sell you this product we're going to take care of the wholesale part here's the retail price who wants to buy it exactly yeah exactly it makes a lot of sense that's what he just said he just said i'm trying to see if my brain heard it right we'll be right back and back to the show so now but then once you have finished the completion of a film you now have to enter into a whole nother thing because you're you're going out there to distributors yeah so are you working with all different distributors all different businesses like there's all sorts it's changing a lot you have streamers you have you know the companies are theatrical and streaming and so and that's nobody's quite figured that out yet my feeling is people are watching things and interested in them and that's going to be ongoing how they figure out the economics of where they place value on it you know there if we keep our focus to a few things and make them make try to make them really good and also i really was felt like you know interesting original dramas comedies sort of ideas were starting to fall away from the theatrical world yes it's kind of like nah that's not in movie theaters and so with this movie and this movie's themes are kind of congruent with with the ideas and the philosophy of this business like what are the people worth and how should they be compensated and isn't this the story itself i think is interesting me if i want people to go see movies like this yeah i i watch watching your trailer i thought the that very thing the first time i saw it i thought nobody gets to make movies like this anymore because we've lived in a in a world where and everybody's benefited and participated to a certain degree in these sort of whatever you call them these temples or these these um including me yeah no that's what i mean everybody all of us have benefited in certain ways however what happened was the result of that is is that these other kinds of movies that you're talking about without special effects without special effects and that are story driven and that are well your hair but those things don't really those those kind of movies don't really exist as much anymore not in the theaters and this one's going to 3 000 screens part of the problem is fucking ozark yeah because it used to be that you know you to put our movie you're competing you know like law and order or whatever magnum you know i mean you had an 11 inch black and white and you could go see simon or you could go see that's you know murder at 1600 oh my god now you've got succession and ozark and really good fucking stuff where uh people at home go you know what i can pause i can watch tomorrow yeah that's made it very difficult but it looks like they're approaching a good combo where you're getting a you're getting a nice window of time in the in the in the brick and mortar theaters you can see it on a big screen if you want or you can wait what is it i think it's now basically six weeks before it'll be at your home as opposed to the old method was like months and it was i'm really grateful to amazon the first time they're really going for the we're going to do a theatrical traditional you know 3500 screens out in the theaters go see don't you can't like wait to see it for free like not sort of upstaging it with a sub a very soon impending free version at home this is amazon right amazon yeah and they really are are taking a flyer on this and i really i mean i hope it works honestly for obviously for the movie but also so that we can do it again and the reason why going back to that model the one thing that we did we did a lot of it we do ask is that like the the hollywood model is kind of like i get paid in failure right right like i still have the money i spent it but like i made money on geely i didn't have to give it back right you know what i mean like everyone else went broke and i got a car you know so this is we're not going to get paid here we're just going to spend what it costs to make the movie itself and we're all going to show up and invest our time and energy and if it works and if it's successful and if it's financially successful you'll get paid whether you're the cinematographer whether you're the writer director much more otherwise than you would have but the relationship between how you're compensated and how much it connects to audiences is really direct versus just like hey man you know i don't get out of bed for less than whatever and that's what i kind of you know that that and such a nice thing to not have that vibe you know where the people who are doing it just want to be there and i think this this film's got a real good chance of of of hitting that sort of zeitgeist thing only because well for two reasons one is because two reasons number one it's a story we all think we know but we don't the whole story about how and why nike got into business with michael jordan when michael jordan entered the nba and when this whole start of this sneaker this this whole air joint thing like it's an incredible american business story that no one really knows how it how it went together and this this movie explained and you're releasing it during march madness which i think is first of all it's great i heard i hear it's great from a few different people who've seen it uh two of them are in the movie um but they say it's great believe them and uh and uh you can come by the house and watch it anytime by the way i told jake i want to invite you because i told jason two or three times please ask him to you know you i think you broke up during that part of the i'm desperate to see it and and uh i think bradley saw it anyway whatever it is i'm desperate to see it i think it sounds amazing and bradley won't let me see his movie until it's mixed so it's really good that movie's great i heard his i heard i read the script and i and i remember saying to him like this is you know this is the talking about maestro dude maestro really yeah incredible the test it's amazing it looks it's fucking amazing talk about movies that nobody it's the best script i've ever read that it's really really good and but i was gonna say for your movie what's great is because it is like as jason says it does tell the story and it's so great and you know people like jason this is where they learn stuff is from the movies because they've never read a book before they have no life experience right they have no life experience so but i if truly everybody says and even jason says that's that's what you never say you didn't even you weren't talking about yourself about how much you love the movie i can say that he legitimately loves it so it's i'm very excited to see it now let's talk about batman let's talk about the real thing that everyone can i jump in business no because the only time we yes we really hung out was when we did that thing with kimball about the batman and then i stuck my head in as lego batman and you guys all laughed at me um we do have two batmans on the podcast i know that's kind of cool it's very one real and one uh yeah cartoon but i saw the trailer for the flash and everybody was like freaking out when you came on the screen you know what that movie's good i hear it's amazing it looks really good i hear that movie they made it yeah i love that and it's my best shit i've done as i finally figured out how to play the guy no really i got it for real i was like hold on am i is that i quit i know i quit and i know i came back to but i got it now it's like you know you do the audition and you're on your way home and you're like no wait what was the moment what how did why did the why did the penny drop what what happened i i mean i don't want to give a spoiler but it was a it was a scene where i got i get caught i get saved by wonder woman yeah uh during a a conflagration with some some some bad guys yeah and she saves me by um i mean i'm sure i'm like the spoiler you know dc assassins she saves you some way she saves you with the lasso of truth yeah and so what happens is that batman um divulges you know some of his real feelings yeah about um his life and his work and it helped you it helps you see the character and now you want another chance to play it and i was like wait a minute i got it am i still wait can i guys we're so rolling can we write another story in my fucking life by the way ben one time i remember years ago and i asked him about it uh i remember alec baldwin saying in an interview that he was driving home from knots land when he was on knots landing oh yeah and like on a friday night and just going like oh fuck that's how you do the scene and he's like from that moment on he made a deal with himself that he would never leave it that he would always figure out the scene while he was there and it always stuck with me especially because it was not so funny alec told me a similar story but totally different is that true yeah he loves this metaphor he's like you know why i'm a good actor but not a great actor and i was like uh no alec and i don't want to answer that usually because i was playing kowalski on probably and i uh uh it's the door he was supposed to leave the screen door and i guess in some and and the screen door wouldn't open and he was exiting it wouldn't open i shook it once and i shook it twice and it wouldn't open and so i stepped around it right then right then i realized what would brando do he would have kicked it down he would have kicked it down and i was like so i'll kick it down okay but he's very focused on that like moment after thing dude that's hilarious i want to ask you about you've won two academy awards good goodwill thank you i was wondering if we were going to get to that in the jason bateman your publicist is like all over me about that i was like okay got it uh texting texting texting yeah no but i want to talk to you about argo because you wrote me one of the funniest emails which i want to read right now and we can cut it if you want but it's really funny anyway victor garber who's a friend of ours right he was staying in my guest house here while you were filming argo three houses down but go ahead what's that he said you were in his guest house but yeah we share like you share a bank account we share a guest house so um we don't want to still share a bank account with matt all of a sudden the deal's over after born but you shot argo three houses down for me and i would walk over my pajamas and sit down and watch you direct and it was super super fun and then um then you won the oscar and i was there uh at the oscars and i wrote an email to you and i said i'm so proud of him so thrilled for you i still and then all the sentences had question marks i said i still haven't seen it and i probably won't get to it i'll probably have to netflix it and someone will have to read the subtitles to me but i'm sure i'll love it like everyone in iran says they do and then i said i love your speech blah blah and you wrote back i saw your little sweet face when i was standing up there accepting my oscar in the middle of the greatest triumph of my professional life i thought i have got to tell sean to go tanning i fucking so when i was doing all this research for you today like all this stuff i found that old i was like i'm gonna look at old emails i laughed out loud and then you wrote another one haven't taken me up on it still still pasty no not at all i'm translucent so good oh benjamin this has been amazing way too much is it is it over they told they told me it's two hours so only an hour for me it's two hours you don't usually do it two just feel like you go three right i am a big fan i gotta tell you guys i love the mark maron show you are wonderful oh i'm sorry No, the truth is you guys do a great job. You manage to be very interesting to listen to. And yet very little of substance is ever said. We distract you with all the constant noise. That's all it is. And yet it feels like kind of wonderful. I enjoy it. It's an honor and a pleasure to be on the show. Thank you for having me. Well, likewise. Honest to God, you are fucking amazing. And from the first time I met you on the day of Smoking Aces, when I walked into that scene and you did the monologue about congenital alcoholism and herpes in a small penis, I have never, you cannot, if you go back and watch that movie, there is not a shot of me where I'm not laughing. That's not from the movie. That's not from the movie, dude. He was just telling somebody. Yeah, we were just hanging out then, remember? They put it in the movie. Yeah. It was, I was like, this guy is a genius. A genius. And I have never forgotten it. And then it's just been a pleasure. Joe Carnahan's fault. You know, he wrote a great scene and directed a great movie. Get to work with you. No, no, your fault. Genius. Love Joe. Great in that, great in X-Track. I have loved it. We had fun on X-Track. I think you're a genius. Yeah, you are a genius. I do. My mother thinks that word's overused. Yeah, it is. Usually. Because she hears it a lot about her sons. But we're really happy, I will say this, I'm so happy that you're directing movies and you're making movies like this and that you just continue to do fucking great stuff. Yeah, I can't wait to see it. I love it. This is all I want to do. You do want to direct more than act, right? You love it. You're so good at it. You know, I started really, really loving acting finally, for real, when I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm just going to direct movies. I'm done with this. I don't care. I just like directing. And then I was like, well, I'm already here. And I can, you know. Do them both, right? Act in the movies and be direct. And then I just let go. And I remember Sidney Pollack once saying, he was a director and an actor, we did a movie called Changing Lanes 20-some years ago. And he said to me, you know why I'm a good actor? I was like, no, no, no, Sidney. Because I don't give a shit. Yeah. And I was like, I didn't understand at the time, but I know what he's getting at now, which is that so much of it just has to do with letting go and being relaxed and trying things and not sweating what people are going to think. Yeah. And, you know, trying the take that, at the time, Jason and Matt make fun of you for, but later on works in the movie. We know what we're talking about. Wait, really? Wait, which part was that? It was the take where I really wanted to play my part and I interrupted Matt and made him wait a second. And you were like, maybe too big. Maybe that's too big. Wait, I said that? Uh-oh. No. Believe me, Matt was right out in front of you. He was like, you can't do that. Hold on, hold on. No, I'm kidding. Oh, wait a second. Oh, wait, is this the one with the blaster glasses and the jogging outfit? Oh, no, you were all unequivocal about that and that didn't make, that was too big. Dude, it's on the poster. What do you mean it didn't make the movie? You're on the poster in your phaser glasses and your jumpsuit. That is historically accurate. I get it. That is taken. No one's going to know that, though. They're just going to be like, oh, boy. I'm trying to promote it. That's why I'm here. The whole point was to get to the fact that that is not made up. That is the clothes that were worn. And his purple, his purple Porsche and his- He had a purple Porsche that said Nike Man. This is Phil Knight, listener, the guy who created Nike. I can't wait to see it. It's fun. And I do, once I started doing it and doing it with people I really loved, and it's true, I would, I love directing in a different way, but acting has become, it's become really fun. Tender Bar was really fun. Last Duel was really fun. The Way Back was really fun, weirdly, for a movie about a person whose child dies and is alcoholic. You were awesome in that. It was like, it become joyful because I started developing my own criterion and stopped kind of making it about like, you know, who likes me? As Will says, it's a sexy indifference. Right, Will? Yeah. I don't say that, no. I'm going with overweight indifference. Indifference is attractive. Well, whatever you're doing, please keep doing it, man. Thank you. Just such a fan. You're so great at what you do and you always have been and just a huge fan. Thank you very much and I'm going to hold you guys to it since you're all in the next one for free. Thank you. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. I told you the model. Yes, thank you, I guess. We'll do it for free. We'll just do it for the art. I thank you. You're amazing for doing this. I'm too handsome for film. Will you let me into the fucking Octurdle Battle or do I, my JV stuff? Tell Matt if you want in. Here it is. Yeah, give my agent your number. Yeah, no, I forget. Okay, great. Thanks. Is Matt on the invites? Yeah. He's the commissioner? So did he really keep you out? Yeah, totally locked me out. I'll talk to him. Well, not even locked me out. He was like, maybe keep working. Like that much. Try the crossword. He finally, I tell him this, this is inside, he finally won today for the first time in like six weeks and he was ecstatic. Really? Yeah, yeah. He was having a tough time. But like I said, once I found out that he's in the low 50s, now maybe I'm wondering if there is kind of an intramural league that I can be, because that is hard. I have a feeling Ben's going to wax all you guys. Yeah, it won't take you long. Believe me, you're a sharp guy. It will not take you long to fucking make us all look like fools. I'm starting to lose it. You are y'all young. Ginko. Sure. Ginko. Thanks, guys. I have a question about Batman. Oh, sorry. Sure, sure. Go ahead. No, that's okay. No, no, feel free. Go ahead, call it. Ben, love you. Thank you for doing this. Yeah, I love you, pal. Very, very nice. Seriously, guys, Jason has my number and you guys, honestly, the movie is here, sitting here on the projector and if you ever want to come at any point, even if I'm not here, set it up, ring the bell, come watch the movie. You probably don't give a shit and you're going to end up watching it. No, no, they do and you live about three blocks from Will. Okay, so someone has no excuse. Oh, shit. We'll walk over. By the way, we will cut this, but I love the new house. Yeah? Thank you. Well, the rental's not too fucking shabby. Is that the one you're talking about, Sean? No, the one that they just purchased. Sean is keeping up with some of our celebrity journalists. No, no, no. I have a real estate agent who's no good. Oh. But, yeah, and I saw it under construction and I was like, this is amazing. So I'd love to see when it's done. You are the first to be invited. We heard it. We got it recorded. Thank you, Benjamin. We love you. Thanks for the rest of the night. I love you all. Thank you very much. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay, thanks, Ben. Bye, bud. Bye. Wow. Well, that guy, I mean. Fucking wattage. So when we were talking about. Big star wattage. I mean, we had Damon on tour and that's fine. Matt was fine. But then we have Ben Affleck and just coming in with the fucking wattage. I know. And you're like, well, that's the reason. Now, that's a star. That's a star. Yeah, through outer space. Yeah. Through outer, not like, remember when fucking Matt showed up in like a fucking hoodie and he fucking, you know what I mean? Let's just get through the interview. Let's just get through the thing and then Ben shows up and he's handsome and he's talented and he's smart as fuck. And he's prepared. And he's prepared. Yeah. His hair's gorgeous. Yeah. Hang on a second. Jason, Jason, Jason. Let me see your hands real quick. I want to see your hands while you're talking. It's really dark where you are. No, all jokes aside, wow, that was awesome. Yeah, and when I was doing like the research, you know, learning about him and stuff and about his past and whatever, I was like, and then you go through his credits and you're just like, wow. Yeah. You get like, wow, bang, bang, bang, hit after hit after hit after hit. He's been so relevant and talented and successful. He's been like that for so long and I feel like he's only halfway done. Yeah. And I think, I don't know if this is true. Does anybody know, didn't he, hasn't he played Batman more than any other actor? I'll bet. I think that that might be, I think he might be right. Yeah, I think so. He's played it five times, I think. Really? It's just, I'm so happy for him. Yeah. And this movie, he just, he crushes it and Matt and him did a great job writing a lot of stuff too. He's such a natural as a director. I mean, Jason, it's kind of what you talk about when you spend all that time doing, and you've got a head on your shoulders and you spend all that time on set and in that environment. Yeah, you've got to absorb something. You absorb something and you can kind of apply it and you have done it and he has done it and he's made so many great films, you know, as you said. Sean. Sean. No, no, no, I know, but what was the one about Iran, the hostages? Argo. Argo. So Argo, The Town is amazing as well. That's another great film that he directed. Yes, The Town, I love that movie. Really, really good. Yeah, see, that's what I'm saying. I didn't even get a chance to talk to him about The Town. That was so good. I know, because you were asking, you know, you had too many questions about out of left field. He just texted me, I hate Sean. Oh, well he spelt it S-H-A-W-N, but the hate is spelt correct. No way. No, that's not true. No, he's, he's the guy, my God, what an interesting, I'd like to read his book. I want to read his book, I want to read Downey's book. Just a book. Any book would be great. I guess, right? Would be amazing at this point. It's top to bottom, left to right, right? Yeah, as long as the, as long as the book has a, finding center, those pages are bound. That works. Oh no, he doesn't even know how it works. Smart. Less. Smart. Less. Smartless is 100% free. 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbico, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjarff. Smart. Less.