RE-RELEASE B. & Suzi - It’s okay to be in this much pain.

Before starting this episode, I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you for sticking with me as we battle through the coronavirus. I know I've been a little late on these last episodes, but I'm committed to sharing these stories with you. It's tough to be at home and just waiting for it all to end, but being scared by all the headlines and scary stories. But just know that we are all in it together. So be safe and thank you for listening. I love my mom, but whenever you're a child of someone, even if you love them dearly, you don't really understand the impact they have. And like how powerful and amazing is that? Like this little woman from Mississippi, which by the way, my mom was four-footed, she's small as hell. And there are people who have all kinds of titles. I don't think would ever have the same impact that she had on people. This is sorry to hear that. A podcast for people trying to understand grief and loss. I'm CJ Williams. For the next 20 years, so minutes, I will get to provide you a glimpse into a person that I met only via email after they reached out to say they had a message and a story. Remember, I am neither a therapist nor a doctor, just a person with a naturally curious personality, which means I'm always intrigued by a story. They will introduce themselves and their loved one in just a minute. But one of my most immediate reactions to them is that I realize they think a lot like me. And I'd like to think that our loved ones would actually have liked each other if they had met. Let me introduce you to B. B is a southerner living in the Bay Area, just plain old being great and such a doogitter. They are on the boards of two incredible organizations based out of Chicago. Howard Health, a federally qualified health center focused on both LGBTQ, health and improving the health of Chicago and regardless of their gender identity, and the YWCA of Chicago. I've linked to both of these organizations and the show notes. So I'd like to introduce you to B. Pagels-Miner. I am a southerner through and through who somehow has found themselves in the Bay Area working in technology. I'm originally from the Mississippi Tennessee area and I work in technology. I'm a product manager. I've worked at something of our technology companies in the world. I also am a very proud number of the trans non-binary community. And so trans non-binary essentially means that I am an individual who takes medication to become the version of myself that I actually feel as though I am. My name is B. Pagels-Miner and I'm here to talk about my mother Suzy and Brainwurder. I had never experienced a catastrophic loss as my mother. And I also say it's catastrophic because it was unexpected. I feel like a lot of other people who had passed in my life, it was kind of expected in their little bit older, you kind of assume that they may not be here forever. So this is the most sudden, shocking loss in my life. So Suzy and Franklin, I say it just like that because she actually chose her name. One of my favorite stories about her is that her mom named her Suzy and Anne Franklin. My mother is just like, now I'm just going to go to the court and change my name to the name right. I think I should be. What's really fascinating to me about her is that I ask you to find that being a child or someone, you don't really understand their value because you kind of see them as your parent. And what I found out is I've kind of grown older is that she was kind of this change maker who fundamentally loved up on people in such a way that she was able to legitimately change the trajectory of people's lives. Be and their mother Suzy were really close and spoke a lot via phone and text. In June 2012, Suzy wasn't feeling that great instead of throat hurt but didn't want to miss out on her high school reunion. The next morning, a Sunday, be received a phone call from their mother. Saying she was on her way to the emergency room. Be wasn't Chicago while their mother was in Memphis, Tennessee. So be just had to wait. And the whole time she just like my throat really hurts, like I'm having a hard time breathing. It didn't seem like a big deal. And so then she went to the hospital. So they diagnosed her at some point. Like it was many hours after she got there and they diagnosed her with epiglactitis. Quick interjection here. I am not a doctor so I made sure to look up what both the epiglottis and what epiglottitis is. My sources are also in the show notes. The epiglottis is a leaf-shaped flap of cartilage located behind the tongue at the top of the larynx or the voicebox. The main function of the epiglottis is to seal off the windpipe during eating so that food isn't actually inhaled. Makes sense. Epiglottitis is potentially a life-threatening condition that occurs when the epiglottis swells and blocks the flow of air into your lungs. According to the sources, the typical treatment for epiglottitis that doesn't get controlled quickly is either through incubation where breathing tube is placed into the windpipe through the nose or through the mouth or a trigotomy where an emergency airway is created that completely bypasses the larynx where the epiglottis swells. You've seen the trigotomy at least on TV and that's usually when they create a little hole in the neck and put a little tube there. And so hersia was swollen, essentially, and so they diagnosed her with that and they decided that she needed to stay at the hospital. But they went in so long that she actually crashed and the elevator's going up to the ICU to get the care. And essentially, she lost oxygen to her brain at that point. And the loss of oxygen essentially killed her. My mother was stolen from us and stolen from the world. What's happened in Tennessee? This was not a big case. But one of the nuances, especially because this happened in 2012, so this happened before the ACA and all these other loss came into effect. There just wasn't the same amount of care or expectations. One of the things that lawyers talked to us about was that in Tennessee, those standard procedures were very different than if you had been in Chicago or LA or San Francisco or New York. And it's not fair, right? Because it's almost this idea that, well, you're in a small place because we assume that the doctors and the nurses and the medical assistants don't have the same exact experience as it would be in another hospital. And so one of the things that makes me angry, and actually one of the reasons why, like when people say, oh, Obama, carer, ACA needs to go away, is that that's one of the nuances of that law that we should all be very passionate about, which is raising the standard of care to be as equal as possible across this country, right? Because people are valuable everywhere. It shouldn't matter where you live, where you're born, where you decide to stay. You should get the same standard of care in every single part of this country. [MUSIC] So when they were actually transferring her up to the ICU, once they really identified in the understood how serious it was. She essentially had a stroke and then she lost oxygen into her brain on the way up to the ICU. And so at that point, they tried to do a tricky on the knee and some other things to actually give her oxygen, but she'd had to severe an injury in terms of the loss of oxygen to recover from it. Suzy's death at 48 years old was completely unexpected to say the least. And she was working towards some big, audacious goals that seemed a part of her life's work. Unfortunately, Suzy was about two months from finishing her master's degree. To be honest, I think she would have been great. >> So my mom worked for the Shelby County system in Tennessee. And so she was a juvenile court corrections officer and then she became a counselor at the prison. And then right before she dies, she was actually in grad school because she wanted to be a guidance counselor. So she was actually doing her internships being a guidance counselor after being a social worker. And so what's really fascinating to me about her is something that I find is also in my spirit, I think, because I saw her do this. And so she just really was really great about finding people at their worst moments and being that piece of hope for them. And what I mean by that is that there are prisoners who are just like, you know, Mama Suzy, I'm never going to be better, right? I'm never going to be that person who's going to get out of jail and do things I'm supposed to do. That's just not who I am. And she would be able to talk to them and say, you are this beautiful artist, you're so sensitive. Like why don't you consider just not going back to that community that may not be the person that you are? And they would be like, but mom, as soon as they, I don't think I can, and she's like, well, just call me when you're out of jail, baby. And I will be there, I will listen to you, I will be that person, you can like reach out to you. Because legitimately, like she was this embodiment of love and kindness. And she did that, she never made more than $24,000 a year. And I was just like, holy crap. I was like, I honestly feel like I may spend $24,000 a year on clothes, which is terrible. Don't judge me. But it's just like, this is this idea that she was able to take all of these different obstacles. It was able to kind of accomplish these things while also still never feeling negative. And the one thing I will tell you, especially being someone who's trans and unbinary, I was never a normal kid. Like I was never that kid who was like other kids. And I was like, the one thing I always had is that my mama loved me in a way that like, I fund him, like to this day, like someone says something to me, I'm like, my mama still loved me. Like I don't have to worry about it. I was like, I was loved so thoroughly that it's difficult for me to even contemplate negativity because I understand what the actual reality of real life is versus what people who haven't had, that type of relationship have had. What do you miss for that, you man? Honestly, to this day, it's, so I love TV. Like I know like apparently like you're not, if you're smart, you're not supposed to like TV shows and movies, I love TV shows and movies. And I think it's because of her because that's what we did. And to see this day, like a TV show or a movie will come on and I'll just like go and I'll actually serve my mom to Ashley. So I have my mom, Freeman and the majority of her Ashley was my uncle because he wanted them. But I kept a little part to myself. And I keep her right by the TV. Because when I watch TV, she'll be like, "Mom," I said, "That was a good show, wasn't it?" Right? And so I just, well, I miss being able to share those things that we love together. And then secondly, one of the things that my mom always encouraged and we, despite the fact that we're from like little town in Mississippi, was to travel. And so now like I'm in an economic position where we travel all the time. And so like my biggest regret is that I never got to take for it to all these beautiful places that like we talked about because she encouraged me. You know, a lot of people were from it and just kind of like stay where you stay where you're from. Like don't go anywhere else. And she would always just be like, "Be, you need to go everywhere in the world. You need to experience everything in the world. You need to expand your horizons." And so when I travel, like every time I travel, I always take a moment to go like, "Mom, you know, we're in Greece now." So they look at this. Look how beautiful this is. Look how amazing it is that we're here. Because no matter where I am, she's always with me. - After losing someone important to you and you're their kid, you'll have to go through some of their things. It's just natural. You have to clean up their house, clean up their garage, clean up their storage unit, clean up their storage shed, any number of things where they have their things. When you go through this process, you are often surprised and sometimes you are even saddened by the things that you see or some crazy combination of the two. But I wanted to keep this little piece in that B had shared about their mother because these are the things that I found in my own mother's things and I had the exact same reaction. - So she had more Christmas decorations than any human should ever have. I was just like, I was like, what? I was like, there's more Christmas decorations. What are all these things coming from, you know? It's just like crazy, like this stuff there. Like I came up where I was up at that. So neither my wife or I are super religious. But my mom had this Bible and she had like all of her notes in the Bible and I kept it because it was just, it's so cute because like her handwriting was very proper because she still played a generation who cared about handwriting. And like all the little notes that she would have. And sometimes I would look at that Bible and look at her notes and how to just go, "Man, it's such interesting insights that she would have about stuff that, and then I kind of think we're granted, but it's just like fascinating how her mind worked versus mine." - Oh, so she would write like sort of a response to like a passage or to a scripture or something, is that way? - Or like, you know, like a new one. Like she would cross out like the part in the Bible and she's like, and she would like put her definition of it up. So she's like very interesting in the way. - I love that. That's beautiful. - Asking me about what their grief is like, the process, the journey, and some of the thoughts that go through their mind and went through their head was important during our conversation. Better understanding them as a person, while knowing that the catastrophic loss can truly make you a different person. - It's absolutely work and progress. That's all I can say. 'Cause I mean, still January 16th of the year, I get quiet. And still, June 22nd of the year, I get quiet. In between those moments, I feel like it all seems very doable, but still in those particular days, this feels like it's so much. And it feels like it will always be so much. - The actual experience of it, like, it actually took me years. Like, 'cause I think that like, I am such a doer, like in a situation that I couldn't do anything. There was nothing I could do. All I could do was like, hopefully honor her. Like, it took me probably two or three years before I ever got to the point of understanding the loss that I had. You know, at the time, I was just, I was just, I was like, let me close her up at her estate. Let me pack up her clothes. But you know, I was kind of just stagnant for like two or three years. I remember like 2014, 2015. It felt like for the first time, I was just like, oh, I've lost something really, really great here. And I've just been on Idle-pilot for this whole time. And it was like, and at that point, I really woke up. And I was just like, okay, it's okay to be in this much pain. - What's grief like? - Yeah, so I don't know if you can define it, right? Like, it's so strange to me because I remember, before my mom died, there have been people who criticized me for not understanding what their grief was like. And I was just like, at the time, I didn't really understand it. And now that I've actually had this experience, like, like, it's like, it's just this weight. It's like having shackles on your body all the time, right? Especially when it first happens, before you deal with it, well, before you get to a place that you, like, it becomes even, I guess, is the best way to define it. And so I just felt like every day of every week, was just this weight only, about what I didn't have anymore, you know? Now, I would say, instead of shackles, it's this fire, right? And so now it's like this fire. Like, so for instance, my wife and I, we just made a large donation to an organization to put my mom's name up in the building. Like, so when people walk into that building, they're gonna see a dedication to my mother from my brother, my sister and myself, talking about who she is. And so now this is fire to build up monuments everywhere. Like, I want everyone in the world like to possibly reach to understand who she was and what her value was. And her value still in. - As I ask all of my guests, what version of, sorry to hear that, did you hear? Did anything, as I ask all of my guests, what version of, sorry to hear that, did you hear from people who were well-meaning? Did anything bother you about the platitudes, about their own expressions of grief, reacting to your grief? What would you have rather heard? Bees answered to this was very simple. I mean, there's basically a lot of statements of like it gets better, right? And again, I think that like, you know, a lot of people lose someone, it's through unnatural circumstances, right? So it's like, you know, this person was sick, you know, or this person was old. And so it makes sense. And so what I want people to understand, or like what I would like people to understand is that there's new wants to loss, right? There's a very big difference between, if you lost someone to someone else's negligence to you lost someone because of her accident. To you lost someone to, you know, right now it's coronavirus, right? Like there's a very big nuance to that. And so what I would have liked people to do is to actually just say, hey, you want to tell us to me about your mom, right? It would have been a much more natural, interesting conversation. And then one of tried to put me in a position of what my loss should feel like. And I think that a lot of times, people kind of assume what loss should feel like or look like. And I think it really varies greatly for people. And so I just would have preferred for people to allow me to kind of talk about who she was because that's more the state that I was in than being able to kind of explain why their words could be hurtful in some ways. Have you been surprised by your grief or anything within it? I think so. I'm a so my profession is in the technology industry, right? So like I and and and and when you think about that, I have a tendency to think of things very analytical, right? So like ABCD like you know, if you code something this way, it's going to do that. And so what I what I found most interesting about this is there's no scientific or mathematical way out of this, right? Like this is just something that you have to kind of work through as I think that's the thing. Like I've always in everything else in my life, there's been a very clear equation for this thing. And so this is the one thing in my life that there is no clear equation for. Yeah, so like when I think about some for instance, when I think about success, success to me is very simple. Like you know, it's about the amount of talent you have about the and plus the amount of effort you're you expect to put in. And then you get success, right? Grief, there's no way in it or out of it. Like once, first of all, you don't want to get into it, right? So that like you want to avoid it all class, but once you get into it, there's no logical way of understanding how you like when my mom died, it was just like I went from a normal human to a person who's grieving like it wasn't like some path, like some. Rev up process and just you were like you're just there. And then you know, three years, like I said, I legitimately couldn't even explain to you the veil that was on my life, like everything was grow. Like things weren't very bright, you know, you know, reading was hard, watching TV, or TV shows or movies were hard, talking to people was hard. And I couldn't tell you why it was hard other than I know that I've lost something and I'm not sure how to get that thing back. And it only took, and even like with my life, you know, and again, so even having this amazing life now, it's still difficult to explain how it's still so hard on January 16th in June 22nd. Like logically, there's no reason for it. Like everything else in my life is great. It's like why do I still feel that way on these days? And so there's there's again, being a very analytical person and analytical career where everything else is so explainable. This is unexplainable to me. It's just something that is right. And there's just no way to calculate it. There's no way to any know I've gone to you like therapists and stuff like that. And you know, the great thing is they've all graduated me right. So like they think I'm doing all the things I'm supposed to be doing. But it's those like this mind-boggling thing to me, but there's no way there's no clear cut path. So this isn't going to end. It's just more about creating systems to ensure that I don't get bogged down completely in it. And I'm always kind of above the phrase that I don't so that I can still move forward while also understanding this is a part of my life. When I have a joyous thing, it's not that even that I don't have joy in that thing. It's just that you have that moment where the next step when you have joy is usually you call the person that's most important to you. I obviously have my wife with me there. And so the most important person with me who I would have called normally would be my mother. And so is that thing. It's it's having to live for the rest of my life knowing that a person who should be there because I mean like statistically. I mean, actually my grandmother, my mom, mom is like 80 something. So let's pretend she should have lived at least one of her mother. So like I'm missing out on like 40 years of experiences I should have been able to share with her. And so that's the thing that sucks. Right. Is it like, you know, you're doing these things that you should be able to share with the most important people in your life. And for the rest of my life, I will have this person who was taken from me. You know, so for the next, you know, 40, 50, 60, however long I'm supposed to be alive. Like I will always say, you know, I had this great moment, but she should have been here. I wanted to take a quick moment to say that our loved ones, they have value even in the small communities that they played a vital role in. Whether that was work, school, softball team, tying the child's shoes or just because they had a fantastic smile. They all mattered and that was and is the reason for this podcast. So with that said, I like to introduce a new segment into the show where I get to respond to you, the listener, my way of communicating even more directly with you. Send me an email at sorry to hear podcast at gmail.com. Drop me a line on Instagram, you can find me there at sorry to hear pod or send me a message from the website. Sorry to hear podcast.com. There you can write a tribute to your loved one or respond to one of the guests that you heard from on the show prior. Or ask a question, even if you think it might be silly. I love to hear your thoughts and ideas, answer your questions and hear from you in general. This is a community that we didn't want to be a part of, but we're here anyway. We're in a hell of a club. So just know that you are not alone in it. This podcast is created, produced and edited by me, CJ Williams. I'd love if you could take a moment to write and comment about the show on your favorite listening app, whatever it may be. It really does help a lot. The biggest compliment, of course, would be for you to share your favorite episode with others. Visit the website, sorry to hear podcast.com. There you can get show notes, sign up for the newsletter, and donate. It'll be much appreciated. I'll see you again in two weeks. I'm CJ Williams, and this is sorry to hear that. [Music]