Re-Drafting The 2023 NBA Draft

(upbeat music) - Hello, welcome to Who Collective Podcast. Welcome to our periodic summer series where we take a look back at some recent drafts and we redraft them, knowing what we know now because we're all smarter. And doing that with us for the first time, we're so happy to have them, is Vince Goodwill. - What up, though, Wendy? What up, movement? Should I be playing a part of "Bond Tamps" today? Should I be angry? - Please don't. - And, ah, ah, ah, ah, you know, all that. - All right. Ah, and a veteran of this and, you know, one of the best red rafters and all of redraft ban McMahon. - Howdy partners, I'm not sure about that. I think it took Christian Brown's fourth overall and last year's redraft in the end. - Oh, no, you shouldn't have brought that up. - Like the nuggets, I, ah, probably was a bit too high on Christian Brown. You didn't give us the good, ah, we talked about the NBA. - Oh, we talked about the NBA, but we're talking about the 2023 NBA draft. How are we gonna, ah, decide the order here, Wendy? - Okay, Vince, this is the role that you're gonna have to play. I, there's certain things we know. - I don't know how to do a snake draft, right? - I play fancy football, I mean, come on. - All right. - I don't play fancy football, okay? And I botched a snake draft and I know that some people think that I'm doing it as a bit, but I do mess it up and I want the position where I always go in between you guys. - Okay. - Is that position two? - Your second. - Okay. - So you just won at a time. - All right. - All right. - But Vinnie and I, after the first round, you know, Vinnie will, Vinnie, I'll let you pick first. - All right. - I'll be the same. - Which is the third or first? Would you rather have the obvious one or would you rather have to make a decision? - Oh, no, I want the obvious one. - Okay, okay, I'll be third. - So this is the 2023 draft. It's the Victor Wemba Nyama draft, which I think you can hear his name very soon. These are the guys who are up for extensions this summer. So it's a great time to evaluate. - Most of them, at least. Some of them are on two ways. And there is one player aside from Limby who has already signed an extension in this class. - You are correct and we'll see how early or if he goes. So we're going to redo the lottery here. And 2023, I will remember it very well, the lottery that year. - Oh yes. - We win the, that's right. One of the most, why don't we just make this our SoFi, get your money right, memory lane. One of the greatest assignments of my career, Vince, to be sent to Paris for the lottery. And, you know, Connor, what's their hockey players name? Connor and David? - I'm not allowed to talk about hockey. - And by the way, I want to applaud you. You have stuck to that for years now. You've said-- - Why are you not allowed to talk about hockey? - We don't want to talk about that either. - Excuse me, sir. I'm not right now. Not now, Vince, not now. - Not while I'm on vacation. - So one time when it was the Connor McDavid hockey lottery, I was in Toronto covering the playoffs. Whatever year that was, 2017, '18, whatever it was. He was like the Victor Wimbanyam of that year. He was from the greater Toronto area. I was in Toronto during the playoffs. It's hard to get playoff games in your hotel room in Toronto. So I walked down to this legendary sports bar in Toronto, real sports right next to the classic part. It was a great spot. I walked in there. It was like a regular Monday or Tuesday night. I was hoping to see, you know, I don't know. - Whatever first-round game. - Yeah, like a Bucks 76ers, you know, first-round series or something like that. And the place was wall-to-wall people. And on every screen, but one was the NHL draft lottery. Because the Maple Leafs were in it. I think they had the third or fourth best chance. And they were trying to get Conor McDavid. Anyway, I'm watching the lottery. I've never seen the NHL lottery before. And Conor McDavid is sitting down the street. I believe at the CBC, but whatever network had it, he's in the studio. They open up the envelopes and discover, Jackson helped me out here. Winnipeg or Calgary or Edmonton, right? - He said there's 2015 first. - Oh, 2015 boy, it's been years now. Edmonton? - Yes. - Edmonton pulls, they pull Edmonton. Edmonton wins the lottery. The Maple Leafs fans are all bummed. 'Cause this is one of their favorite sons from Ontario, generational player, et cetera. And like two minutes after he finds out it's going to Edmonton, he's on set doing this interview. I thought it was amazing. It was amazing television that he was going to be that immediately. You just found out your whole life you're going to be in Edmonton, your thoughts. Like real-time answer. - Yeah, and you just trying to watch us, so you were looking to watch the Bulls box. It was Bulls box. - Okay, well listen, I don't even care what that game is. I don't remember anything about that game, but I always remember how amazing I thought that broadcast was. So, years later, with the help of our colleague, Jonathan Gavoney, I spent some time with Victor and his agents and his family in Paris that year. And we had this idea to, you know, and he was very willing to do it. And the lottery happens at 2am there. And so, we did it. And I went over there and it was the last game of the regular season was that night. His team played the other Paris team in the French League. - Last game of the French League of Season. - Last game of the French League of Season which goes into May, I guess. - Mm-hmm. - I went to that game. They won, Victor played well. And then at 2am. - How cool would you play? - He didn't play poorly. - Okay. I have a whole 'nother story about Gavoney and Balal Cool Aboli. Should I tell this story right now? It's the summer. Why not? - Sorry, finished. - No, I'm not good at this. 'Cause it's a great story. I love this story. - Okay. - So, just to illustrate how Jonathan Gavoney works. All right. So, when I go over there in January, Balal Cool Aboli was kind of playing on their JV team. They have like, the French League, they have their senior team, then they have kind of a JV team they call the Espoir, okay? And they play it like three or four o'clock. And Cool Aboli had been playing on the JV team. Well, there was injuries or something. He was playing better. And they kind of promoted him to the big team. And, but there was all these GMs there to watch, to watch Victor. There was probably like, seriously like, six GMs in town, including by the way, Brian Wright from this verse. - This verse got a lot of windy. - Yeah. And for a lot of years. And there was this young teenage prospect. So, this team came in from this other team and their JV team had this prospect that all these general managers wanted to see. A young, lanky winged by the name of Zachary Risha Shea, who I think was 16 or 17. And the GMs were all there, wanted to see Risha Shea play against Cool Aboli. At the time, Cool Aboli was like a bubble or late first round pick. And, but they were playing him on the, on the sort of the varsity team, you know, the big team. And, but these GMs. And so they knew that Gavoni had like a really good relationship with the head coach of what Victor's team, Vincen Kole. It was a national team coach at the time. And I watched Gavoni successfully talk, maybe I should say lobby. - Lobby, there you go. - Lobby, Kole, into having Cool Aboli play in the JV game. - Just so it's a showcase him against Risha Shea. - Yes, and then go play in the varsity game, which is what happened. And Cool Aboli killed in this game. Killed had like 25 points with awesome. I swear to God, he jumped 10 spots in the order after this game. And Gavoni, like look, I don't, maybe Jonathan has a different version of events, but I'm just gonna legend build. Gavoni like talked Kolet into doing this. Cool Aboli plays against Risha Shea. And then goes in this, in the senior game, he played like two and a half quarters. Then played, was the first guy off the bench, was a six man. Right out of like, you know, 16 year old sophomore, coming up to the varsity and coming off the bench, you know, or whatever. - Well, maybe Cool Aboli can play in a JV game real quick here, because he needs to get one cup-- - What about Risha Shea? - Risha Shea, and not in this draft, but he won't go number one in the night, and when we do this again next year either. - Well, so anyway, they played that game that night. Did Kolet played. I don't remember what he did. So they went to Nike's Paris, like headquarters, on the Champs-O-Lisee. - Is this the huge store? - You know, the store is there, but this is like the actual, and they have offices there. - Okay, okay. - It's not far from Boulevard and McMahon. Boulevard, McMahon is down the street. - Avenue, Damick Man. I'm so sorry. I didn't want to enter. You know, nothing says something French than a Boulevard name or an avenue. - Yeah, I've got like a great, great, great, great uncle who was a French war hero somehow. - Yeah. I'm sure he was related to you. - Boy, Patrick McMahon. What a-- - Hey, he does this, what a French name. - All right, exactly. - Oh my God. He bring Jameson, did he bring Jameson to France as well? - All the way to my little nephew who's on this trip is, his name is Jameson O'Connor. - Again, doesn't sound French. All right, so anyway, at 2am were in this place. There's like, there's not that many people there. They kept it small. All of the Victor's teammates are there. His family is there. Killian McBapay is there. Are you playing for PSG at the time? You know, PSG is Vince? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paris Saint-Jermain, who, you know, currently the two-time champions league winners. So he's there. Like, there's some French actor there. I don't know. He was, he's a big deal, but I don't know. Gerard Dupu did, and I'm just kidding. It was some young French actor. What'd it be amazing if Gerard Dupu did showed up at Victor Romance? Pepano D. So here's the thing. So it was right in front of a Western Eastern, you know, it was our broadcast. So the deal is Victor's going to find out what happens, and he's going to come over to me, and he had like no time to do this, because we had to get to the broadcast. I remember talking to the trucker. I think I feel like there was a Western conference finals, and they told me you have 90 seconds, and then one then they were like, you have 75 seconds. I think all it being like Joker was about to tip off. Okay, so it must have been- That was Lakers and they'll get something. Okay, that's impossible. Yep. All right, so I'm hearing the truck. The lottery is going on, and here's the thing. I'm hearing the live broadcast. We're connected through satellite, whatever internet, whatever. I'm hearing the live broadcast, but you know, it's being streamed to France, and so there's a delay. There's like a four-ish, five-ish second delay. So he all sits down with his family, and his agent is there. I said to his agent, "Buna," I said, "Buna, I'm going to be hearing the teams that come out of his envelopes. Do you want me to tell you, like, give you a sign, like which team, like, you know, write it down or whatever so that you're, you know, you have some heads up?" I offered that, and he said, "Only for one team." And I will not tell you what that team is. Maybe later, in Victor's career, but there's only one team that Buna, not Victor, just Buna wanted to know who it was. But Victor was on the record, is saying he didn't care. He wasn't like a place he didn't want, like, so it didn't matter. So, yeah, so it was amazing. We had told him, like, that I was trying to replicate the Conor McDavid moment, right? Like, this is what I was going for. And by the way, I wrote stories and did other hits there. Oh, the Wendy's sensitive, because it went viral. They ESPN sent Wendy all the way to Paris for a 60-second interview. Well, you know why? I don't like that, because I literally then stayed up all night writing the story of the night, you know, the written story. And I was like, I should get credit for staying up until then I did get up in the morning. I was up straight through to noon the next day. One thing nobody can criticize is your work ethic. So we get through, and Victor had been like brief, Victor, we got like two minutes once this happens, because you know, on the broadcast, they would, you know, go to the spurs, you want it, you know, and all this stuff. By the way, thank you. Thank you for that. What is that? A four-year-old, windy sleep update? Listen, some people have great stories of being up all night in Paris. I'm just not one of them. So it happens, and sure enough, Victor comes over, and why I have 70 seconds. I think I squeezed out three questions. There is not a super memorable interview, although he was like excited to be a spur, because you know, the spurs are connected to France because of Tony Parker. Yeah, and they've got a pretty good history of drafting some footers, number one overall, and turning them into, or helping them develop into all the famous. More hoop collective podcast after this. Anyway, that's the draft we're redrafting here. Yep. Now that I've just filibustered for all that stuff. You picking Scoot Henderson, number one day? No, Vince, you're on the clock. You noticed a really difficult decision because you got both Thompson Twins to pick between. But I am going to, of course, San Antonio I'm going to take Victor Wendell. Very easy choice. I would say, out of the last, what, 10, number one picks, he's probably the easiest, or maybe 20, since LeBron. I mean, I would say he's up there with LeBron. I remember, you know, Woj created a little bit of a ripple when he said he, what do you, I think he said he might be the best prospect ever, ever leading up to that draft. And you know, Wimby, like LeBron, and Wimby's got a long way to go, but like LeBron, Wimby came in the league with just a historical amount of hype and has lived up to it so far. You know, now I don't know if he's going to do it for 24 years, but three years in, you know, thank goodness the blood clot didn't derail anything, but the one year, three years in, Wimby is everything that you thought he was going to be. All right, so that's now my turn, right? It is. It is. So really, this is kind of a tough spot here. What are the toughest spots? Because you're going with a Thompson Twin, which twin am I going with? I mean, you don't have to go to Thompson Twin. I would go Thompson Twin, but I wouldn't, I don't think the choice is between the twins here. It's not. Well, you're going to get to I'm going with the Thompson Twin. Okay. You know, you can pick whoever you want. Third here coming up in a second and fourth for that matter. Yes, I can. We'll get that state that's right. I am, I am going with Amen Thompson, even though a SAR has come on extraordinarily strong. And I, they're both are having terrific careers, and I don't even really, I just, I've seen, I've watched Amen play a little bit more. He's got a little bit more of a history and his defensive intensity, although a SAR was the one who made all defense this year. They're both incredible. Their athleticism is tremendous. Amen just has a little bit bigger body of work. That's basically why I'm doing that. I mean, I could, we could redraft this again in a year or two and I could, and he's a, he's a better offensive player at this point. Look, by the way, big higher for the Houston Rock. It's higher in Chip England. And obviously, Amen's going to be his new pet project, as Lou Dort was, as Kweiliner was before that, not, you know, among others. And by the way, like, I obviously could go with Brandon Miller here. Brandon Miller has had a very good three years. I just look at Amen Thompson as a, as a true difference-making defensive player. Obviously, his, his offensive game is still underdevelopment, but. Well, it is, but in this class, he ranks fourth and point scored, second and rebounds, and second and assists. You know, he's a pretty good attacking off the dribble, and he's awesome in the dunker spot. Obviously, develop a jump shot, or they need to surround him, will a bunch of elite shooting if he's going to be the primary ball handler. And, you know, he had the, because of family injury, he was kind of thrust into the primary initiator role last year, and it was, you know, a learning experience. I wouldn't say he failed. If somebody who used to be on this podcast, who's known for having bad basketball takes, that he'd be most improved player MVP, and, you know, walked from a whole thing, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. So he, by the way, he has shot 54% for his career. He knows what his bread and butter is. It's just that this his three point shooting is getting worse, not better. And he's just, he's just not going to get guarding the playoffs, and that is definitely an issue. And so he doesn't have to be a 40% three point shooter. He just can't be a 20% three point shooter, like he was this last year. I mean, I wonder if his best thing is playing off the, is playing off the ball, you know, like while that jumper develops, I think he was kind of putting us, I want to say a spot of this service that the Rockets didn't go out and get a point guard. You know, when Van Blee got hurt to sort of stem the tide a little bit, but I felt like being thrown into the fire. He was okay. I think what happens when we do these redraps is we, we remove like some of the stigmas that happen in real time. Like now we're criticizing his game where it is. But when you go to a redrapped and the guy's being number two, like you're saying he's had a pretty successful career, so far, so you're not dissecting the negatives as much as you are accentuating all the positive that he has brought in his first three years. Yeah, and look, he averaged over 18 points of game last year, shooting better, three percent from the floor, more than five assists. But again, offensively now where he's at his best is when he's when he's in the dunker spot or when he's, when he's cutting. And you know, him and Shingoon have a really good chemistry when Shingoon's catch them ball up around the elbow. You know, so he's, he's still evolving kind of figuring out who he is as a on ball playmaker. But I mean, him and his brother, there ain't five better athletes in the league. Those are the best two athletes in the league. Yeah, they're my, I was just saying, they're probably up there. Might not be any extension talk. And we're going to be interesting, by the way, the Rockets have a history, a recent history of, of negotiating hard with their own guys, Shingoon being the primary ample, but with Shingoon with Jalen Green and very quickly last year with Jabari Smith, they got extensions done with, with all three of those guys. So we'll see. I'll also say, and I've said it many times in terms of who they value the most on that roster Thompson is at the very, very top of that list. I'm not talking young guys. I'm talking period. So all right. You're, you've got control. Okay. So number three picks going to be Brandon Miller. And remember, there are a lot of eyebrows raised when Charlotte took Brandon Miller over a scootanerson. And clearly, you know, that decision is ended up being the right decision. You know, he, he, last year average better than 20 points, really last two years average better than 20 points per game. You'd like to seem to be a little bit more efficient with within the inside the three point arc, but, you know, shot it 38% last year from three, you know, big, big long, yeah, great size wing, you know, and it's still a, you know, this is a little bit or 23 years old. I mean, but I don't have any hesitation taking him at number three. I do think four gets to be a little bit. Oh, it was spicy. Do it, McMahon, do it. I know what to think and do it. It's a tough decision here. So you mentioned a sore. I don't think he's the, I'm not sure he's even the best man. I shouldn't say that. I was going to say, I'm not even sure he's the best defensive player on the board. I'm, I'm, I'm not going to go that strong, but I am going to take case and Wallace over a sore Thompson. And the reason I'm going to do that, one case and Wallace also was in all of the defensive player last year, taking 10th by the thunder, technically taken by the Mazz and there was a trade down. The Mazz dump, Davies, what was the, yeah, what was the trade? I don't remember that night. I don't know if they tried to, the Mazz, tried it down and got lively at 12 and the, that's right. That was the, the lottery pick that they secured and man got fined was a 400,000. Yeah, that was the top 10. Remember that, that top 10 protection next pick and they ended up with 10 and it took tank and a late in the season, you know, to make sure that happened. And I think we're going to find out, you know, case and Wallace has shown flashes of some real offense potential, you know, especially this year during the stretch when Shay was out later in the season. And then it was like, Shay was out, A.J. Mitchell was out, Jay Williams is out now. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to replicate that in the conference finals when they really needed another playmaker to show up with a dub out, A.J. Mitchell out. But I think we're going to, you know, I think he starts this year. I'm not certain about that because A.J. Mitchell could as well. But I think case and starts, I think we're going to find out how much offensive juicy has, but more, more of a proven offensive to Maddie than the Sartons, which is why I'm going with him here. And again, they're both awesome defenders. That makes my choice so very easy. I thought it was my turn. It is. No. Oh, wait. It is. It is your time. You're right. What do you guys know how to do a snake trap? I do. I'm sorry. It just, it's screwed me up. McMahon that you get that you picked twice in a row. My bad. I know how to do a snake trap. That's my fault. McMahon, you got to hold all of us accountable here. Yeah. I'll keep my bag. How many fantasy leagues will you be in this fall, McMahon? Ah, so I only do two. I don't like doing a bunch because in your like, you have conflicts of interest. So I do one. This kind of a normal thing, but it's a, it's an auction league. And then I do one that's a, a weekly league, but like the points accumulate through the course of the season. So you're picking a new team every off of the salary, a salary cat picking a new team every week. Oh, I said, that's a lot of work, man. Cheese. It ain't that much work. It takes me one dump to do it. Wow. Oh, we love them. We're not, we're not going to give them away. We're going to events. We're going to hold on to them. You know, not why he's taking a dump. Metaphorically. No, I'll think of my weekly team. Sorry Thompson was the fourth overall pick or fifth overall, fifth overall pick to Detroit one, one behind his brother. I'll live with the Thompson twins, made first team all defense this year, third for defensive play of the year was a driving force. I really, the way that he competed against Jalen Brunson in the 2025 playoffs is, where I saw really sort of put his foot forward led to league and steals per game this year. Average two blocks in the playoffs, two blocks and two steals in the playoffs this year, like you rarely see that. Like he was just a freak as far as run, as far as run protection. And you don't see that with guys in this position. I just, my thing is he's just such a limited off. It's a player. He's even more limited than his brother. I think he's made, he's only made a month forward. Yeah, he's, he averaged 9.9 points per game this year. He's not nearly the playmaker 9.9 points. He's made 38, he's made 38 three pointers and 195 regular season games. Yeah. And so listen, defensively, there's good as it gets, both of them. And you know, I would give him the nod defensively over walls just because of the versatility. Also six three, the Thompson's or six seven, you know, like they can guard anybody and everybody. But my choice is based, just based purely on the offensive limitations of Thompson. No, I'll say this to somebody who's watched him closely. For one, and there's almost just news or anything like that. But I think there's a lot of people within the Pissons organization that hold him as the second best player on this team and not Jalen during even though during the All Star team. And that affects these, these discussions. Yeah, that's been reflecting Doren's contract negotiations over two summers now and that are still in resolved. He's one of those guys. You don't pay to watch anybody play deep in the league. But when you see somebody compete, the way that he competes like he competed against hardened and Donovan Mitchell in the second round in that in that series. Like he loves taking on the challenge. So I think he's one of those culture guys. Like if you take him and you're a losing sort of program and he walks into your building, he ups the care factor. And I think to me, that's why I would have taken him if Wendy had passed him up for, you know, anybody else. Plus you're to trigger. Yes, that's right. Yes. He put on the Hennessy glasses. I wore, I wore them on air today for NBA today, whenever this is aired. Yeah. So people will be fine. Um, I guess this is my pick now. Right. We're six. Yeah. I got to work. Yep. Kiantay George, the Utah jazz. Like I know people don't pay attention to the jazz. She was the 16th pick. Um, and that draft, uh, that was one of the picks that they got from the, uh, really go bear trade if I'm not mistaken. Believe that's accurate. And he's been so, he's made incremental like steps like, uh, he was hugely fast. Yeah. Yeah. He took, he took the leap, even though he had the hamstring injury that sort of cost him, so it took the end of the season. Yeah. Um, um, guidance, I believe. That's a shame. It was very, was someone say they have a hamstring injury. I tend to believe that they have a hamstring injury. I'm not accusing Danny A to finish a canary. Timothy, they paid their fine and they're just fine with the way it worked out. And by the way, now they have one of the most exciting back courts in the lead with Kiantay George joined by Darren Peterson. And it is going to be really fun to see how those two, who they've already developed a really, you know, good relationship, new chat a little bit before. Yeah, they're represented by the same agency, which always is, uh, a basis to go forward. They met before that even with, uh, through the trainer, I believe, uh, Phil Beckner, who works with Damian Lillard and a bunch of other guards, um, met, met through him before that. And Kiantay made a point to be a constant presence around the summer league team. Uh, did anyone want to be on the coaching staff and the league said, no, yeah, which is, you know, whatever I got a little messy. By the way, uh, in this class, Kiantay ranked second in points and first in assists first career so far. No, I like, I like him. I like him a lot. He made the huge, and he's got more efficient this year too. Like that was the thing that sort of got me like there. You talk's going to be a lot better as far as competitive because you ain't take, you ain't tankin' and you got, you got some horses that can run even though they lost Walker Kessler, uh, sort of lakeers like Jaren Jackson and Laurie Markin and like they're going to be ready to actually compete in the West. I'm not saying playoff or anything, but, uh, I'm fascinated by where they can go. Yeah. And for Kiantay, it's the first time in his career that he gets to be in a competitive situation. You know, and look, he's gonna have, he's got to play better defensively. But, uh, offensively, you know, if he can carry over what he did last year, then he's really good on that in the floor. There was a time and I said it here that I didn't think an extension was going to get done. And then I was told when I was out in Salt Lake City, like, hey, you know, we're, there's a little bit more optimism than there was in late June. You know, it's not going to be a max number if it's done this summer. You know, he might, he might be paid more if he waits. This is just one of those classic situations where you always got to be thinking about the second apron because or not even the second, but you always got to be thinking about the aprons because you just, even if your books are in good shape and whatever, you, you can screw, you can make an overpay and it can bite you in the backside for the next three years. And so, well, and listen, they traded for Jerry Jackson, Jr. He makes a lot of money. They maxed out, uh, Larry Morganin didn't trade him. Yeah. And so like, they've got a very expensive front court. Now, they did save some money by deciding trade with, with a Walker Kessler. But no question you get a, you know, and look, they're looking at this thing long term and they're hoping certainly that there are billions going to be. guy who gets a huge contract extension here for years. - Number seven, Vince. - This is where it gets tricky. - Oh yeah, this is what we're here for. Now we're here to roll up the sleeves and-- - This is what, like we know the NBA. - Try it, Nick, baby. This is where it gets tricky for me because I'm not operating with recency bias when I'm considering Derek lively the second here. That's, it's a tough one, but I still have in my head the way that he played when Dallas went to the NBA finals. Like the two-way force, the left, the athleticism, like the three-point shooting isn't quite there. It's basically to me between him, Hamei Hakas, Tomani Kamara, who's, you know, a three-in-d, traditional three-in-d guy. - I mean, the three-point shooting isn't there in a sense of he's never made one in a regular season game. - And he was always shooting, and the shot doesn't look bad. Like when you see him go through the process, the shot doesn't, the shot doesn't look bad. He just doesn't, just hasn't been put in a position to do it. I think I'm going to take Derek lively the second. - That's risky, risky business. - I know it is. - Yeah, this is the draft, baby. - No, I know this kid, no biscuit. - Great kid was a significant factor for a team that went to the finals as a rookie. The Mavericks, the men is his value by trading the best pick and roll player in the league when he's a frickin' awesome, you know, lob threat for him. But here's where, and you know, this is no, like, great analysis, but it's just tough, man, when you look at games played, rookie year 55, second year 36, last year seven. You know, he's had that foot and ankle that's been operated on multiple times now. I really hope that it can be a case like, you know, in B, for example, where there's the foot problems or in his career and he was able to get past that and have a hell of a career, you know, obviously he's dealt with injury status career, but he's going to be a Hall of Famer. Big men with those kind of foot problems, it's scary. - I'm not an orthopedic surgeon, but the fact that he had to go have this surgery done in England, which is not something you normally hear from athletes is to go to England. I mean, that is an indication that this is what they're dealing with is a more of a rare thing, but I will tell you, Vince, like his impact when he is right is unquestionable. I mean, you know, bouncy, big-time athlete, impacted both ends, like. - Very first goal, you know. - He's a smart, you know, he's like the maturity to own floor maturity, like playing that type of style in winning situations to me, always sort of jumps. I like it's easy to forget. Who he was playing against in those series, especially against the Minnesota Temple, when he was playing against, you know, towns and go bear, and what he was able to do as far as being a pick and roll partner. I'm hoping in this pick that the foot problems are behind him because I'm believe, I'm a huge believer in the upside. - You know, Sean Swini was his assistant coach that he worked with on a day-to-day basis when he was a rookie. And Swini, obviously, is gone on and was associated coach with the Spurs, now head coach for the Magic. The guy doesn't just give flowery praise just to do this. - That's true. - Okay. Swini told me when Lively was a rookie that he thought Lively had potential to be a Yoke Noah type of defensive presence, but at 7-1 and bouncy. In other words, that type of cerebral, versatile, richy do everything type of big man defensive anchor. - Yeah, well, Vince is still a believer there. All right, so I have the eighth pick here, correct? - Yes, yes you did. - The eighth pick in 2023, by the way, was Jerryus Walker to ended up with the Pacers, just so you know. - More Whoop Collective Podcast after this. (upbeat music) - I am gonna go with Tomani Kamara here. - Okay. - And that is the guy other than Wimby who's already had an extension. Matter of fact, that his extension kicks in this year. - Well, not even true, buddy. First off, we may be more extensions by the time, but Jordan Walsh got an extension in this. - Oh, there you go. - So, not to what about, I don't mean to what about. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. - Oh, God, we missed that from Bon Tips. (laughing) - Yeah, so he was with a 50 second pick in the draft by the Sons. And was in the trade for, he was in the Deandre Aiden trade. - And the Dame trade. - I'm sorry, in the Dame trade. - Yeah, a tattoo Deandre Aiden, remember, that was a three-way trade, and Aiden was going to Portland in that trade. That Dame walk, you know, the pieces involved, and they attached him to Deandre Aiden. And I covered the Sons, regular season opening, they opened against the Mavericks that year as in Phoenix. And David Fizzdale was on the Sons, he was a, the Sons lead assistant at the time. And I was just talking to him and he said, man, 'cause I say, what do you think about the trade? And it's like, I can't believe that we gave up Camorra. I tried to talk him out of it. Like, he told me that Camorra was going to start for the Sons that year, that year. - He started 50 games that year. - Yeah, for the Blazers, yeah. - He's a champion. - I mean, he's, you know, we talked about great defensive players. He's an awesome defensive player. - I voted for him on the all-deevensive team this year. He didn't make, he made the all-deevensive second team as a second-year player. He played all 82 this year. And I put him on the team, he did not make it. You know, it was competition. - Well, I knew shooting 37% from three-fers career, which that was a big question. - Yeah, he has definitely become-- - On the better volume now than he was when he first got into the lead, you know, you can see it. - Yeah, shot seven per game last year. - I don't know if you could say he could defend one through five, but under certain circumstances, he probably could defend one through five. But certainly he can guard two, three, four, just putting two, three, four in the lead. So, and last year signed a, signed a four-year 82 million dollar extension, which is kicking in this year, I believe. So-- - By the way, ranks seventh in this class and scoring. - Yeah, that's, that's nothing. - And as proved himself to be a quality star, I'm curious what the blazers do, by the way, with their starting lineup. - I'm curious about a lot of things about the blazers. - Yeah, that's just true. But like if he's starting and any obvious starting, and obviously you gotta start clinging, which card's not starting? Jew holiday? - I don't know. Anyways. - All right, McMahon. - I'll take Scoot here. All right, I'll take Scoot here. - He was, he was the number three. - It was the number three. I mean, you know, again, people were surprised. You didn't go second. You know, he showed some real flashes in their playoff series last year. I honestly, like, I just asked what guard's not starting? And I mentioned Jew holiday. Obviously there's Dame, there's JAW. Like, I don't know where the hell Scoot fits in this whole picture. And if he doesn't fit, then I would, you know, do you trade him? And again, he hasn't, he has not lived up to what people thought he was going to be. But he is 22 years old, you know, and has shown at least some flashes. There's still talent there. I don't know that he's, I don't know if it's superstar potential, like people thought. But, you know, there's still some sort of a player there. And, you know, I'm okay with taking him eight right here. - All right, I think that was nine. Texan wasn't nine? - Yes, that was nine. - I'm not very good at counting. - Okay. - I'm holding you accountable now, buddy. - There you go. - All right. - All right. - And you got to 10th pick, too, I believe. - I'll take Anthony Black. - Oh, good one. That's who I was going to take. - Yeah, who had a bit of a breakout season last year. Really, and a lot of it was just the volume went up, but as the volume went up, you know, he maintained his efficiency. He even got a little bit more efficient. And average 15 per game last year. And he's another one, like this is honest, there's a lot of really good defensive players in this draft. And he's another one of those, you know, six foot seven. You know, I remember talking to Mosley about him, you know, when he was a rookie, Mosley was talking about like, he thought he had just elite defensive potentials. The six foot seven guy who could really move, who wants to guard, you know, long wingspan, and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I don't know if he's a point guard. And, you know, he's one of his guys like, he's not a pure point guard. And he needs to, that three really needs to develop for him to be like a high, high level starter, but he's been productive and there's a lot more potential there. the way Taylor Hendrix went nine to the jazz in the original draft, Ben the disappointment for them. They've had a lot of successes with drafted and young guys, but this one he hasn't done it yet. And then number 10, we mentioned earlier was case in Wallace. And then he and he's not going to you talk as they traded them. That's correct. You know, so by the way, you know, who number 11 in this draft was? Chad Howard. Now with the Texas legends, the Mavericks Elite team. So actually, my bad is on a two-way deal. Yeah, I just recently signed. Yeah, I saw that people had honored, you know, Mike Schmitz, our former colleague had, they unearthed, you know, he had really praised Chad Howard ahead of the, uh, every time like a guy, Maverick would be having a good summer league performance or whatever. There'd be a, they'd find a Schmitz tweet for one of the cows, like 15 years old playing the place you never heard of. Right. Right. Yeah. Well, the Schmitz has definitely been leaning into acquiring international players. Yeah. Uh, not Chad Howard. Chad Howard up, uh, your way Vince, it's a Michigan man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was a Michigan man. He's a, you know, nipple baby. Those things tend to happen sometimes. So he's a lottery pick. He did. Okay. Uh, we'll see how that this career goes. Uh, all right. So I'm between two players here. I'm not going to say which because I don't want to jump in front of Vince. I'm probably going to take, and that's probably I am, I'm going to take Jaime Hawke as here. Yeah. Mm hmm. Just hasn't shot the ball well and it's kind of tough to, to take a three and D guy with no three, but um, he had a really good third year, had a, you know, was, uh, finished fourth in the rookie of the year. For a time was like competing with Victor for rookie of the year. Uh, obviously Victor was going to win that, but hey, you had a really good start to that season. Um, and his second year, he was just really had a sophomore slump and bounced way back. Shot 51% this year. Not good on three. So 32% on threes, but, uh, an excellent multi-dimensional player can do a lot of different things. Average 15 points of game off the bench, 74 of the 75 games he played, played off the bench. So, uh, that is the role he had in Miami. Now he's been traded to Milwaukee. So I'm not really sure how that's all going to work out there. I don't really know how their team will go, but he's a tank who can, uh, initiate offense. He's kind of a little bit, he's not as tall as Dinyabia, but, you know, like guys just bounce off Dinyabians. It's the same thing with, with Hawke as when he's in downhill and they did that, you know, they ran the, uh, the offense with few screens and all that kind of stuff and like, yeah, then, then, then, um, no, the Roche, no, the Roche, he really just plays with a, with an edge. Yeah. And when he's fully engaged, just plays with an edge, you always feel him very much of a heat player, totally understandable why the heat drafted him. It, uh, it, uh, it, uh, really followed coming out of UCLA. All right, Vince. Oh, by the way, the pick, oh, I already said, jet Howard one year in the draft. Okay, 12th pick to, to Vince Goodwill. This is where you stuff, because how many Hawke's was going to be, uh, my pick, this is where it gets to, while I like to call, how good are these dudes? How are still, they're still one. No, no, no, not, not like, I'm gonna say in a bad way, McMahon, relax, relax. When I say how good are these dudes, I mean, when I say this guy, I'm going to say this guy strictly for the conversation that's going to ensue, okay? Well, we approve. I'm taking pods. The answer is not as good as he thinks he is. The man who says, I want, I'm going to be better than Steph Curry. Like, friend of the pod, we've had pods on the pod, you know, that makes sense. No, I do think that even if he's not as good as he thinks he is, even if he's not as good as Steve Kerr thinks he is, I still think that's a really good NBA player that if placed in the right role, you know, he can, he does quote, unquote, all the quote, unquote little things and everything else. He's like sometimes like a little nat and sometimes, and I'm saying the most positive way, but this is a guy that's been really productive since coming to the league, stepping in and playing in different positions. You wouldn't call him a natural point guard, at least I wouldn't, you know, but he's, he's a basketball player. I'll, you know, that's the way I'll give him. I don't think he's as great as maybe some of the, you know, some of the pods he thinks that he is, but I don't also don't think that he's like the bane of everybody's existence either. You know, like Warrior's Twitter, who somehow finds his way to the left side of my Twitter page. They hate that kid. And I'm like, he's a decent enough ball player. So well, he said some things that did not. Oh, no, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, the stuff he says is more than when he plays more than when he plays. Yeah. So, but no, no, it's a quality spot. You know, so I mean, we'll see the, the Warriors have an interesting set of circumstances here. All we, you know, they're always interesting. I, you know, nowadays, we're always getting asked is the championship window? How is the championship window closed? I'm like, bros, they finished 10th, 8th and 10th last three years championship window has dust on it. Yeah, I mean, let's be honest. But here's the thing. I just want to point something out. Now, Steph can extend on honor after August 29th. And he can get two years at 130 something million. And if he wants it, he's going to get it. Okay. And then, you know, Marcus Thompson, our colleague, like he had this interview with him and he mulled whether or not, Steph could delay signing that extension just to keep the pressure on the Warriors to keep improving. And I don't, I don't think the Warriors, you know, the Warriors have been somewhat static the last, but you know, they, it's not for lack of trying. It's not like they're sitting on their team in the butler, not that. I, you know, it's some saying, they tried to trade for a bunch of other guys. So a couple of things. First off, I want, we talked about earlier. Well, Dremon green get a no trade clause. My guess would be, I mean, maybe it's even done by the time this pod comes out. My guess would be no, because just because they don't want to set the stand, they're going to give it. But Dremon's going to get a one year deal. Stuff's on a one year deal right now. Pajemski is on a one year deal. He can get extended. And who am I forgetting? Oh, Jimmy Butler's on a one year deal. So if the Warriors want and frankly, they could make Steph a partner in this, they could say Steph, Hey, man, you can have the 130 whenever you want it. But what if we just chill on it and see what happens next summer? Because that is dumping 100 something million. That's, that would be all time record salary cap space. It would be something like around 100 million in cap and cap space. They're any big time free agents available next summer. Well, you know, I know that. Yo, Kitch said he's going to be a nugget for life. And I'm not going back on it. But, you know, until he signs, he's going to be a free agent. And until he signs, there's going to be teams that are considering putting themselves in position to drop out. And again, maybe this will be done by the time we discuss the time this podcast happens. Carl Towns has not signed an extension yet. By the way, you know who else could be depending on what brought James? Well, just because it says his final position doesn't doesn't mean anything. We don't know if Kauai Leonard is going to end up going to Toronto at this point. We don't know if he's going to land in Toronto. That is, that is true. So I'm just saying like if Steph doesn't extend, I can already feel people be like, Oh my God. And by the way, if he doesn't extend, I guess we got to treat it like Yo, Kitch, like, yes, allegedly a warrior for life, but until he signs, yes, but like I'm just, you know, but but but getting back to the point here, considering that situation, if I'm the warriors, I don't know if I'm holding off on a pod's extension, not as a referendum on Pajemski, but to leave my optionality open. Absolutely. Look, if they've done all this stuff about planning for the future for one, I don't think they're going to go and decide to go all in just on a whim, you know, like there will, that would be silly for Joe Lake up to do it at this point. If you're going to commit to it, commit to it. But if I'm Steph, I want to see what these guys do. The question I have though is we talking all these hypotheticals about free agency. I don't think free agency exists anymore guys. Like I don't know what team is going right. But you know, if you have space, and even if it's not straight for agency, if you have space, a team can say, or a guy can say, I want to be here, you know, I want to be in a certain spot. I mean, that's modern free agency is getting traded into it as opposed to walking directly into you know, into cap space. But I get, but your point is, you know, your point is taken. If I'm Steph, I'm not signing that extension right now. Have they earned his trust in this in this way? Like, I'm, I go back to the two timeline thing. And I know it's been at nauseam. We've probably talked about this in various platforms, but wise men, moody, comminga, maybe movie too much less because he was supposed to pick you, wind up taking that and getting what you can out of it. But that's where it comes back to bite them. Like they didn't to me. If I'm Steph, I'm saying you guys have not fully believed in me as a leader for a championship team. That's why you go and try to commit to this two timeline thing as opposed to riding me. So who says Steph wants to be around there for that? Like, don't you Steph being a good guy against him or the PR of knowing that Steph doesn't want to be the bad guy against them. Like, I think you get your feelings are planned that way. That's just me. I agree. All right. McMahon, is this you to finish this out here? It is me. We've got two more. Correct? Yeah. So this is picked number 13, the 13th and 14th picks in the 2020 three draft were a great e-dick at a Kansas who went to, uh, went to Toronto and is now in Limbo. Uh, I think will be a clipper, but don't know. Um, and Jordan Hawkins picked by the Pelicans and still with the Pelicans. Yeah. Uh, but take Bryce's sense of all year. Interesting. I like it. I kind of like it. That's a, that's a gutty move here, waiting again the game. Well, he, he's provinging and scored an NBA. Um, you know, he hadn't had a chance to prove it. It can be part of a winning team. You'll get that opportunity. It was taken 28th by the jazz and, you know, kind of a big body, uh, not kind of really a big body, six six, two thirty five bench score, uh, shooter. Will Hardy refers to him as the crock pot. He ain't like wave. You know, he didn't heat up that. I have not heard that that was his nickname. Yeah. When he gets hot, he gets really hot. You know, when that crock pot gets cooking, he can get cooking. Um, but, you know, he shot it thirty days. He always appreciate buck eyes. Yeah. No, we don't. 38% from three over the courses career, average 15 and game last year and again, you know, you can count a poopoo, average 15 and game for a team that wasn't trying to win. So, you know, let's see what he's doing. What he does this year as the jazz are trying to win. Yeah. Uh, this is the best compliment that you could give him. Um, the jazz had to start benching him in games because he was playing too well. There you go. He would like all of a sudden go away like in the third quarter because he was scoring too much down the stretch. I actually, I should get his, uh, I should get his post all story game splits here. I'm gonna take a look. Um, but, uh, he, he, you know, look, you gotta be careful with like late, late season stuff, but, um, he was a, you know, to me, at least he was a bit of a revelation. After the all star break, he played 22 games, 12 starts, okay, averaged by 27 minutes a game, averaged 21 points, um, in that stretch, shooting, uh, 40% from three. Now, I will readily acknowledge that he was not getting a lot of stops. Okay. Well, I will readily acknowledge I was not watching the jazz all those star games. So I'm looking. Oh, no, you watched it. I know you watched that one game they played against Memphis. Well, that was a legendary performance on all front all sides. Well, they blew out the grises which showed yeah, our grises were taken. Yeah. All right. And the 14th pick, uh, which back in 2023 already said Jordan Hawkins. All right. Go ahead. Oh, it's just this me too. Yeah, I think so. Okay. We started it with a metropolitan's 92. All right. We'll end it. We'll end it with Blawkulabali, who honestly at this point, he still was picked seventh by the Wizards. Uh, there must have been a trade because, uh, the Pacers actually picked them. They swapped, uh, Jerry's Walker and how they swap. Okay. He's still a concept of a player at this point in his career. Um, you know, the concept is he is a, uh, good size in terms of height, super athletic, wing, um, you know, it's three point shooting has gotten worse over. Yeah. Listen, there are concerns here about a lack of progress, a lack of development. He's been in a God awful developmental situation because the Wizards have been, I mean, just a mess during his entire career. Um, but this is a, this is a swing on, on the concept of a super athletic good size wing. Still very much of a prospect. Um, so, uh, I don't have anything else to say. I wish him the best. All right. By the way, you turned 22 years old this week. Still have to birthday. Was he there? Uh, I think I messed this up. By the way, I think Vince was supposed to pick twice. Was that, did that happen? I think so. But it's all good. We got there. Mike Madden was like, I was supposed to pick twice. You went full, you went full bond temps. Uh, uh, yeah, yeah. I bow. Uh, I don't know here though. The Atlanta Hawks pick Kobe Bufkin in this draft. He did. We just missed him the 15th. That, that didn't work out so well. Bunt times would never have allowed that if he was. Awesome. And in every draft, there's going to be some rough ones in there. You know, the greatest drafters, uh, get picks raw. We've mentioned a few. Um, Jalen Hood Chafino is another one in there. I mean, you know, there's, there's, there's some bricks. It's okay. Some bricks happen. But you know what? Jordan Walsh might have should have been my last pick there, but I'll, I'll stick, I'll stick with what I did. I'll stick with what I did. By the way, by the way, another, uh, another player from this draft will be making his NBA debut will be an NBA rookie this year. Where you guys aware of that? I was not. Yeah. The Mavericks and the, um, in the Santiago Dometray, they got the rights to to wreak the bear of itch. That's right. This, uh, another move by, um, uh, Schmitz to bring, uh, international player. Yeah. Six, six, six, seven shooter, uh, who was, you know, a Euroleague vet. He's 25 years old. So they're bringing him over. They signed him and they're bringing him over. Maybe when we redraft this redraft. All right. This has been a 2023 redraft. And we're very happy that you enjoyed it on this fine August day. Thank you very much, all our producers for putting it together. Thank you to Jackson. Thank you to Miles. Thank you to Tucker. Thank you to Mark. Thank you to Vince. Thank you to McMahon. Thank you for listening and watching. So who collective will talk to you very soon. Adios amigos.