Raymond Miranda: Direct your story. Fear will show you the way.

Intro and background Hello everyone, and welcome to Chit Chats Episode 9. It's a real pleasure to introduce Raymond Miranda, creator of the Myhejo method, spelled MYHEJOA practice focused on the unseen narratives shaping founder decisions, and more you're going to see during this episode. Raymond began in storytelling, teaching writers to recognize the moment a character's life turns. Over time, founders and executives came to him not for scripts, but for clarity. They weren't lacking strategy. They were trying to understand the story they were living. With An MFA from the New York University and leadership role spanning venture capital, film and tech diplomacy, including serving as an ambassador for Asia Berlin, his current role, Raymond blends narrative craft, emotional intelligence, and thoughtful engagement with artificial intelligence. What makes his work remarkable is death. He helps leaders navigate identity shifts, internal thresholds, and decisions that are as existential as they are strategic. In a world obsessed with speed and optimization, Raymond helps founders pause, listen, and move forward with clarity and coherence. I met Raymond through a friend, Simon Simon Feton, who also has a podcast which is called Courageously Curious. In his 13th episode, he first interviewed Raymond with an incredibly cinematic lighting. I highly encourage you to take a look at that episode and Simon's channel as well. What stood out in Raymond wasn't volume or ambition, but this stillness. In a room full of fast answers, he would be the one watching patterns. There was a pause before he spoke, and in that pause you could feel the death of the signal it provoked. In today's episode, we explore the architecture behind decision making, how fear operates as data, how ritual must break before a story can begin, and how obstacles are not interruptions but revelations. We dive into the Forza FOOSA framework, which stands for Fear, Opposite Obstacle, Story and Action, and examine what happens when artificial intelligence becomes a mirror of our internal narratives. And perhaps most importantly, we will ask an even larger question. Are we living consciously chosen stories or simply repeating well worn patterns? Get ready for today's episode with Raymond Miranda and without further ado, enjoy Chit Chats episode #9. Listening to the body’s “no” To watching my body like assess when it's a no as like a almost like a like a game, like you say, can I figure out really quickly when it's a no And does my body does like does my body have that intelligence ahead of my cognition? And the body is something very new for me. So I it's, it is, it is almost like an experiment. It's sort of this thing. Oh, if I just turn into my physical, my body, intelligence, does the no come sooner than the cognitive rational decision, you know, sort of storytelling brain? Speaker 3 So it's like, it's like your body already knows the answer and your brain has to, let's say, compute it or accept it. Speaker 2 Oh, oh, yeah. Like it's an experiment. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm I'm wondering whether I can feel the no long before I am brave enough to say the no. Speaker 3 That's that's the the nice challenge, absolutely. Speaker 2 But especially if you know me, which you kind of don't, you know me, I'm such an agreeable nice guy, which is. So this is a real problem for me. This is a real challenge. It's. Yeah. Speaker 3 I can tell you it's, I believe like just what like we talked about in the yeah, in the first session that we had together where we talked about the unconscious and letting your mind uncover the true unconscious side of you. I think, I think it's there. It's that one knocking already at the door, right? And at least from my experience, like looking into it, because I don't know how you are approaching this, this navigation of, of listening to your body to understand the nose. But in my case, it's, it's basically listening to your nervous system, right? It's, it's something very difficult to put into concrete things like a yes or a no. That's probably the most concrete thing you can get to. But it definitely speaks to you like it's, it's weird and, and other people can never understand how it speaks to you. I feel like you have to translate your nervous systems insights with a lot. I mean, in my case, Europe, I think more warm than me. I'm a little bit more cold, but with a lot of efforts If like if it's a no that affects other people, right? They give up like a break up. Speaker 2 Yeah, I was also watching how the no came very early and how my brain was trying to justify maybe no, maybe not. Maybe I, you know, during all these dancers in my head about why I may be processing it a little too, you know, maybe a little too quickly, a little too harshly. And so it's just, it was just an interesting experiment to see whether there's another kind of intelligence for the subconscious. Speaker 3 And how are you performing this experiment? Are you writing it down somewhere? Are you recording it? Speaker 2 So I have a so yeah, that's a really good because that would be a proper experiment. I'm not doing a proper experiment instead of watching my body as I'm understanding the note. But I have a friend of mine who does who's just recently got certified as an embodied coach and so sort of come back and process it with him. So maybe that's my note taking. That's my witnessing possibility. I have this person who can say, oh, what what happened to your body? Why, why, why did it shift there? And so, yeah, but it's interesting. I think I should start taking notes, I think. I think at least journaling on on the experience. Speaker 3 Yeah, that that helped me at least a lot. And I don't know if it how it is for other people. So it could probably help in in introspection. Just side notes, you're recording, right? I just don't didn't double check. Yeah, yeah, if it's just there, I think once once you do it, it's it's perfectly fine. Sweet. And then other side note, talking about like the creative scene in Berlin today I had a call with someone working with Wevy, Wevy AI, which is an artificial intelligence company that has been acquired by Figma, probably, you know, Figma. Yeah, they just acquired this company and it's basically imagine, you know, Da Vinci Resolve, right? Imagine how like the there's this whole nodes engineering on color grading. Imagine that interface, but instead of color grading, you generate video. So it's basically a video generation pipeline creator studio where you can iterate many different scenes and make any video out of it. And they're really, really well made. You can apply many different changes. So it I was playing a little bit around with it today. There's also community that you can join to have like free tokens and stuff and in Berlin, yeah, they're growing. It's something that I just wanted to shed a little bit of light to, and I talked to this when. Speaker 2 You're talking about the color grading. It's the sort of the, the, the, that little, what I mean, I don't know what to call it the sort of. So why? Why are you? Why? Why are you using color grading as the as the as the as the point of reference here? Speaker 3 Calibrating. Speaker 2 No colour grading or calibrating. Speaker 3 I'm using it as a reference so you can visualize it because it's the same like in terms of how it looks with all the nodes and all the connections between the different instances. But it's not colour. I mean, you can also do colour grading changes, but it's anything. So it's like, yeah, it's AAI Creator Studio. So you can change whatever in the scene. You can connect. I don't know APNG of three like mermaids without a background and add it into a scene which is already an ongoing scene and have that done made alive, you know, give give it good lives and stuff. It's many different applications. But yeah, just to connect with Berlin because you I believe you're calling from Berlin as well, right? Right now. Yeah, exactly. You were just talking about the snow. Sorry. My working memory from the day has been going OK cool, let's let's then dive into it. I think in the intro I'll already be already touched upon the Forza. What FOOSA stands for Fear, opposite, obstacle, story, action for many as I thought script writing in both in the US and in Malaysia where I'm from originally. Fear and the opposite explained And I developed this exercise called Fear and the Opposite. It's one of the script writing exercises. It's not an absolute rule, but it became probably the my most popular scriptwriting exercise. If the scriptwriter, this is the prompt, if the scriptwriter can name the subconscious fear of the hero and then name the opposite of that fear he will have, he or she can have the beginning and the end of the movie. So fear and the opposite. And so I often give this example in Finding Nemo Marlin, the father's fear is if he lets Nemo go, Nemo will die and he will be a bad father. And the opposite of that is if he lets Nemo go, he will thrive and he will be a good father. And that's the end of the movie. So this very simple single line of guessing, making a sense of what the main characters subconscious fear could be and turning it around gives you the entire arc, the potential arc of the transformation the character has to go through. So this was how it started. Many years of me teaching and script writing and this particular exercise got very popular because it was it was somehow ringing through, because it somehow results were easy. It was an easy thing to remember. It was an easy thing to do. And also people challenged. It isn't as simple as that, you know, is the opposite. Is the transformational act of a character as simple as a couple of words turning around? Speaker 3 Yeah. And you also mentioned that it was not only that useful for scriptwriters but also for entrepreneurs, right. This turning, let's say, your advancements and your life into a story that then you can further discover like like a movie that's also, I believe many ways of saying many phrases that. Speaker 2 Says I think so. Entrepreneurs as heroes I think the transition from scriptwriting to entrepreneurs came later in my life because I started watching entrepreneurs first become like superstars, tech entrepreneurs become heroic characters in the world and started paying attention to that heroic journey. Then I started paying attention to the fact that entrepreneurs more than anyone else have to get outside of the common, common world, common job systems and step outside of the common job systems and go on this really difficult journey that has everything stacked against them. Right? The the statistic of entrepreneurs making it set up and founders making it something like 8. You know, less than 80%. The the stats go on. Speaker 3 Yeah, maybe even lower. Maybe it's like 1% success rate. It's ridiculous. Speaker 2 Let's just say it's like, really, really insane. It works against you, right? And yet so many people go on this heroic journey and this idea of the heroic journey and the script writing theory of Joseph Campbell called the hero's journey was the thing that merged. I started wondering whether I could chat entrepreneurial journeys with this, the heroic journeys of script that that is inherent in script writing. Also, entrepreneurs spend a lot of time talking about their story. More than any early stage business story is very much embedded in entrepreneurial lifestyles. Speaker 3 Maybe also to clarify the definitions of the words that we were using, right? Because for all the listeners who are not really, I'd say on a day-to-day basis involved with such a script writing terminology like hero or a dramaturgical terminology like hero, what would you define a hero to be? Because it probably changes from aspect, like from words such as protagonist or main character. So what does a hero make a hero? Speaker 2 Yeah, that's a really good question. And thank you for for for asking me that. Because it it because you think that the hero is somebody always wins. Exactly. And that's not true. But in in in in script writing, the hero is the is the main character is the character we follow. And that character can sometimes lose. That character can tragically die. That character can can can be transformed by losing. So the journey can be everything lost and yet you are changed by it. So it is not in the traditional way. We think of hero and that's really important because I think when we think about entrepreneurs, we talk about them often in the heroic, like hero sense, not the, and we don't talk about them enough in, in the, in the, in the, in the person that's going on the journey. And that journey can fail and that journey can fall apart, but the person can still be transformed. And this is one of the things that I, I, I spend a lot of time talking about the fact that you go on the journey is heroic it in itself. Yet we spend so much of time in the media just promoting the ones that, you know, the myth of the ones that make it. But the great stories, they're great stories in the people that fail. They're great stories in the people that start again and and all of that, right? So, yeah. So that is how I started and only in 2018, fairly recently, although did I leave the the script writing world and take the method into the the entrepreneur. So since 2018 I my main conversations have been with entrepreneurs on the method and the utilization of the method. Speaker 3 Would you then say that the this way of interpreting how a hero is constructed and understanding the identity of a hero within a story can help us understand more ourselves? Does can you, can you apply this, Yeah, way of reasoning or is it a little bit too much of A stretch in your opinion? Speaker 2 Absolutely. You can apply this way of reasoning. I think the idea that you know, so narrative psychology is a category of, of psychology that basically looks at the way in which we tell our stories internally and the ways in which we reshape our stories or the ways in which we see the world from a narrative lens. It's a branch of psychology. It's not a very big branch of psychology, but certainly growing, but the storytelling nature of of of the human being so. Speaker 3 What do you think then are the aspects that you need to consider to write a good story about the hero? Is it specific qualities that you should enhance or let's say be careful about of the hero? Is it the context around the hero? Is it because if, if ultimately you want to shape the story for your script and as a proxy of your own life internally, maybe there's some things that we can prioritize right to yeah, to have that character built in a in, in a successful way, or at least in a complete way. Like, is there some level of yeah, priority spectrum that you can apply on? Let's think about the hero, right? When you write a story and you want to introduce the hero to the audience. Speaker 1 What will be the? Speaker 3 First things that you have to deal with, is it the background of the hero or maybe we can slowly also transition into the topic of fear? Or is it the fears of the hero? Is the uncertainties around the around him or her? Speaker 2 So the first rule look that we often start with is in order for a story to begin, the normal life of the hero needs to break. Ritual breaks and story begins So often we need to know, Oh, this is the normal life. There is breakfast, there are kids, there are this, that's the house that so this is the normal life. And then that normal life breaks because, you know, a truck drives into that the, the main, the main front door. Then we know this is not normal and therefore the story can begin, right? So the normal life needs to be established and then we need to break the normal life. This is really interesting in relationship to human stories. If you think about The Big Bang, this is, this is what it is. It's like out of this disruption, we are constantly seeking how to make meaning out of it, right? So the, the, the, the, the, the story starts with disruption, which is why it is, it is a great tool for entrepreneurs because they are always searching a technology that is disruptive, right? So that is what they're looking for. And then they have to make meaning out of that. So just say, for instance, you know, this is a normal example I give in class when a husband and, and, and wife are sitting and having breakfast, we can assume that this is a normal, normal ritual. But as soon as the wife turns around and says I can't do this anymore, I want a divorce. We know the ritual is broken. However, and I say this often in my script writing at the husband turns around in terms of well, honey, everyday, same story. We know that this is the normal in this very awkward situation. Somehow the wife declares that she wants to to to get the divorce everyday. And and and and actually in this world, the story is not broken. The the ritual is not broken, right? It's so. Speaker 3 It's yeah, of course, of course, because it becomes normality, right? It becomes out of the normal. Speaker 2 Yeah, so, so we can watch many, many weird life lives that would seem so completely out outside our norm, but yet it's very normal in there, right. So first of all is to understand that what is what breaks ritual is contextual. It it is, it is contextual to where you are and what you how you see the world. And and so the contextual nature defines the the breaking. The second thing that you have to understand is the breaking requires an entire person or community to look at all the broken parts and beginning begin to make sense of it. Now, if the wife says I want a divorce and this is the first time she's saying it, there are many possibilities of things that can go wrong. And that's what we're intrigued. We we're like, oh, oh, we don't know where this is going to go, you know, but she may take the, you know, he may take a gun out and say, you're not leaving me, right? That's one possibility. He may say, thank God, this is like the greatest thing ever. Like, you know, please take the children too. I can finally have an effect or thousands of possibilities. Speaker 3 Yeah, that's where it becomes interesting, right? Speaker 2 So the mystery of the possibilities, right? But also you watch when you are you, when you are breaking the ritual of your own lives, you, you live in all those variables. Thousands of possibilities become available to you that we're not before. And this is actually quite frightening. We we the, the mystery we we love in movies may not be the mystery we want in our lives when something interrupts our normal. And so immediately we have to become meaning making. We need to look at the patterns of this new information, make choices about this new information, interact with the, with the with the, with the obstacles that will come with a new iteration in order to slowly make meaning out of it. And if you can see from a meta level, that's just the structure story we're always existing in, the thing that breaks us, redefines something and we are racing to make meaning out of it. And if we can see that in our lives, that is the cycle we go through in, in many different areas. We can watch the, we can watch our stories play out at A, at A, at A, at a meta level. Speaker 3 Yeah, because no, I was just thinking like you, you need to have this mindset. Otherwise, if there's some things that just are disrupted from your normal stage and there's this so-called break in your life, people don't compute it, don't process it, and they turn it into a vice or something that, yeah, will not really achieve your change of a hero of the hero will not be enabling, right? Your yeah, your identity in the story, right? It's like, I don't know, it turns into a lame story because like, yeah, I expected, you know, the movie, but then people don't take action or at least they don't process it right. And that's and that's sad because it's like a little bit more boring movie. And you will always want to have like the the movie where everything happens right where the most unique combinations from the ones that you mentioned happens. Speaker 2 And, and people who, who's, you know, we, we know this in relationships where people tell me this all the time, right? They're like, Oh my God, this guy's gone back to dating the same kind of girl, the 100th version of the same person. And yet he's making the same choices, right? And because in, in, in this story, the story is repeating pattern recognition. It sort of recognizes this pattern. It lives in this pattern. We all know how the story is going to end. We say to our friends, Oh God, we know how this story is going to end because we are outside, we can see the patterns better. This particular, this particular person is choosing a pattern and living out the same pattern, not making new patterns out of it. So you said something very important. So after you break the ritual, the second and perhaps the most interesting thing about storytelling becomes the obstacle. Why obstacles matter So in life, we don't think our obstacles are the most exciting thing. We just think that they are the things that are stopping us from getting what we want in film. Without the obstacles, we will not, we will not care about this movie, right? And I say in script writing, if the boy meets the girl and the boy gets the girl and there's a 3 minute movie, right, we watch for 1 1/2 hours because of all kinds of obstacles that come in the way of that, right? And, and, and so obstacles are the most exciting, intriguing, mysterious things about the stories we watch and read, but we don't think of that in the same way when they come in our lives. Speaker 3 That that answers the initial question. Then if if the obstacles, I mean the the initial you, you first need to, you know, have have this break. But in case it doesn't occur to you, maybe the second best thing or the best thing you can do right now is to just write down what you perceive were your obstacles in life. And then see how how you're perceiving those and whether you're perceiving them as something that enable you to turn more into who your hero is supposed to or at least is currently evolving into, or whether it's you perfectly put it, whether you'll still interpret them as something that stop you from becoming that right. Speaker 2 So there there are two kinds of obstacles where the general obstacles we have in life. And so that's really, really well put. You can you can chat the general obstacles and see how you're meeting the general obstacle comes in your life. And then in the storytelling context, it's the obstacles that come because something quite dramatic has breaking your rhythm right now. And in the story world, because we have broken your rhythm, the universe so cleverly has broken your rhythm, it is going to throw all kinds of truth at you to navigate. And the obstacles are that it is the test of the truth that has to unearth. It doesn't mean you will pass the test and maybe along the way you will fail many obstacles, but the goal is so that the truth may be revealed, right? The goal of the obstacles is so that some inner truth can get can get surfaced. Speaker 3 That is true. That's incredible. And probably our body, like you said in the beginning, is, is trying to communicate us this truth and we just let it. We just need to let it speak out loud. Incredible. Wow. So. Speaker 2 I think there's, there's 2 levels of the intelligence, cognitive levels of intelligence, body levels of intelligence, you know, and in story they're, they're both interacting in very interesting ways from the mind perspective and also from the body, because we hold stories in our, in a, in a, in a, so we hold stories in our mind and it transmutes to our chemistries. So it, it gets embedded like code inside our bodies. So. Speaker 3 Wow, Yeah, yeah, this, this turns into very deep philosophical conversations 'cause now in my mind there's yeah, there's this character's idea of us just being able to and being conscious. That means that we exist, right? And the, the diversification of what is body and what is mind and the connector of these two, right. This, I don't know how it's called in English. It's this, yeah, it's like a yeah, it's a little bit, a little bit far, but yeah, it makes me makes me wonder in philosophical terms right now. But yeah, it's, it's yeah, it's very difficult for me also as a science first person to like diversify the two because I feel like they should be 1. But you cannot prove it's one like body and mind 'cause like I always want, I always like to see that the body is the powers of your brain and your brain just is the manoeuvre of it. But at the end of the day, they're the same thing. It's just it's way easier and to come to conclusions if you divide them. Because one, I guess is no, because the nervous system is the brain. Yeah, this is getting very. Speaker 2 Let's let's go back to the let's go. And then we'll get back to the maybe, maybe the first, the, the first principle of, of why fear comes right, Because it's, it may be the two things interacting, the body and the, the mind interacting. And so maybe, maybe we, we may be able to exploit in the first principle of FUSA. But it's, it's a, it's a really fascinating question to see which moves 1st. And I think when I was talking about seeing whether the the whether my body can say no, whether my body feels a no, first was it was like, which one is processing what and which one comes first? Which one is which one is faster than the other, Right. And these are great questions you can continue to ask some scientists to do a much better work. I'm asking it from a script writing, which almost seems like a funny place, you know, outside my depth, but but I'm intrigued by it. Yeah. So Fusa starts with fear and the opposite, right. So why fear? Because when the, when, when the, when the pattern breaks, right, Generally there is a level of anxiety. I don't know where this is. What's this? I don't have data on this, right? So when you, when the store, when the truck comes in, when the wife says I want, I want a divorce. The the first thing is I don't, I don't know where this is coming from. I don't have data on what am I supposed to do, right? And anxiety and identity gets called upon very quickly. Like who, who am I? What am I supposed to do? Wait, wait, where are we going with this? Right. So when we ask what is the, what is the deeper fear in what is the deepest fear? Not even just the conscious for the, it's easy to understand that the system is broken and that there's anxiety. But what we're asking scriptwriters to do is what, what can, what kind, what is the anxiety that the main character cannot see? So but only you can see is the scriptwriter, but the main character cannot see. And if you this is often related even more to the actual situation, to the actual drama of the what is happening, because it's what they cannot see that will that will will come to interact with the obstacles will ultimately be the thing that has to be unearthed or solved in the obstacles. So brilliant. So why do we start with fear? Because fear has two different processing, processing places, one the cognition that tells you all kinds of information and the other one is, is is you can can you feel the fear And you people can say yes, sometimes I can feel the fear without being able to name it. So it means that the cognition cannot is out of you know, it's it's, it's it's not holding offline offline. Yeah, I just this is the most important is this is the online. The body is online. And I can tell you what the body is feeling and sometimes I am all cognition. I can, I can tell you all the stories about the fear, but I don't know how way it is on my body. So when we actually do this in workshops, it's because we only ask them to write a single line. The one line fear exercise Can you write a single line of what you are afraid of, what you are slightly anxious? Where is the where is the ritual breaking in your life at the moment? And can you write a single line? Speaker 3 How long should this line be? Speaker 2 Just a sentence so it's funny right? For somebody who works teaches script writing, I often say don't tell too much of a story. Remember the Finding Nemo line was if. If I let Nemo go he will die and I will be a bad father. It's a short line so try and make sure the line is compressed and compact without over telling the logic of that compacts line. So don't tell the story is what the line is meant to do OK? Would you want to try it? Speaker 3 I would love to try it a single line of what I'm afraid of. Speaker 2 I, I was, I was just going to say that the entire method is based on one line. Everything after this is, is. So we, we, we spend a little bit time figuring out this one line. Do you have a line that you can explore with me? Would you like to do that? I don't want to to. Speaker 3 Absolutely. I have 100% OK. I tried to be as concise as possible. It's kind of general. Live example of fear and opposite My current fear is that I'm afraid of not pursuing a life I can comfortably sustain in this manner for four or sorry, for five or ten years. Speaker 2 I'm afraid that I cannot sustain. Speaker 3 Like I cannot pursue this life as I'm currently pursuing it. So with my job, with my friends, with the location comfortably to sustain this kind of equilibrium that I've built for the in the past five years, for the coming 5 or 10 years. Speaker 2 OK, so I think that's a better line. I cannot. I cannot maintain the equilibrium I have built currently for for my life in the next 5-5 years. Speaker 3 5 or 10? We can also do 10, yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, I won't be able to maintain this equilibrium. Speaker 3 Yeah, I know it's an obstacle as in I know that I need to break something to, to achieve that. Then I don't want of course just do anything wrong because I, I should be also on this on the other side, like very grateful of where I am right now. And that's another challenge. But this is probably the main fear I have right now, so. Speaker 2 You have a, you have an equilibrium, and the equilibrium feels good, but the equilibrium doesn't feel like it can be maintained. Speaker 3 Yeah, it doesn't feel as purposeful. Speaker 2 The equilibrium doesn't feel purposeful. The equilibrium that you. Speaker 3 Are sustainable for the future. Speaker 2 So these are really very important lines, right? The equilibrium I have built doesn't feel purposeful and sustainable for the, for my, for the future, for my future. And so, and, and in the workshops, we, we used to just do the opposite. But now we, we used to have GPT, we use AAI, any AI model to help us. So we, we text in, we say, you know, what is the opposite of the sphere and we, we get what the opposite is. Can you do that fairly quickly? Speaker 3 For me, yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. So, so, so we, we won't do all the steps, but this is the first two major steps that's really important. So so did we clarify the line again? Speaker 3 My fear. Speaker 2 Yeah. So we, we, we I want. Speaker 3 To see if my if my dictation works OK. My current fear is that I cannot sustain this current equilibrium that I built up in the past five years comfortably and purposefully for the upcoming 5 to 10 years OK. The opposite would be. My current belief is that I can confidently and sustainably maintain and even strengthen the equilibrium I've built over the past five years for the next 5 to 10 years with clarity and intention, or even stronger, it says. I trust that the foundation I've built over the past five years is resilient enough to carry me forward sustainably and purposely for the next decade. Speaker 2 Which one feels right of the two that they've given you? Speaker 3 Both, but the second one adds. You know, the cherry on top. So I would say the second one is very, yeah. Speaker 2 These are lines. These are words, right? How do you feel about the second line? Speaker 3 It makes sense. That's that's that's how do you say an extension of my fear? Because of course, what I'm afraid of is that I cannot apply the learnings on to my next chapter, and that I need to sacrifice and go back into loops that I promised myself I'm not going to enter again do. Speaker 2 You believe the? Do you believe the line? The second line. Speaker 3 Let's be honest. Not actively. If I reflect on it, yes. Not unconsciously. My unconscious is still on the fear side. Speaker 2 Very good. So very good. That's that's that's actually the right, the right answer. Not that there is a right answer, but that that's closer to the to the truth. Let's just say that I often say the second person, and this is a very danger. If we just sort of like say these mantras as the second person, there's a danger that part of you doesn't believe that, but you're still, you're still saying this mantra, right? Because these two people are two different people. The fear is one person and the opposite is another person. They're not the same human being, right? They have, they have the potential of, of, of, of, of, of, of being the same, but they're not, they're, they're the each inside the fear has a belief system, has a lot of data, has a lot of experience that, that, that that holds that fear. And this other person, this, this opposite person does not have insufficient data enough yet. But you're curious, you're curious about who you become, right? If you live in the opposite and, and this is the, the first chart, the first thing you do, you just be, you just become curious. What happens if I am exactly that person? What happens if that is my entire grounded belief system? Who do, who am I? What kind of possibilities of a life I, I can live if I have that position? And that's all you have to do. You sort of move for a moment, you move curiosity and you move perspective, right? And this is what we're doing in step #1 instead of acknowledging the opposite personality that exists, that could be possible. And you're sort of saying, huh, if I become this other person, then what? Then how will I choose the things, the choices I'm making in my life? So great. So this is the first, the first thing. And, and and because we talked about the body, can I have you say the first statement and tell me how it feels in your body? Speaker 3 My current fear is that I cannot sustain this current equilibrium that I built up in the past five years comfortably and purposely for the upcoming 5 to 10 years. Speaker 2 So let's breathe in the cannot sustain. Let's tell me what it feels like in your body. Speaker 3 It feels like a suppression of something that I want to take action on. But I'd like the I would say courage was the first word that came to my mind, but I would say the right amount of time to take that decision without regret. Like I would feel that it comes with regret right now. But I felt like this always, even before, like things like a break up or things like big decisions were afterwards. It felt 10 times better, right? Speaker 2 So the anxiety existed. Speaker 3 Before. Speaker 2 Sort of explain that sentence. Speaker 3 Yeah, just to just to like it feels very similar to when you have to confront something like a breakup and how I work. I might be weird, but every time 2 weeks before I felt way worse than the two weeks after the breakup. Like the two weeks before for me were way more difficult to go through and they have their life compared to the two weeks afterwards because I, I see clarity and with clarity, I, yeah, I enjoy life 10 times more. Speaker 2 Yes, because, because before it's all mysterious. The pattern is we don't know where what's gonna happen. We don't know how. What is the obstacles? What's the what's the break up gonna look like? When you're gonna do it? What time should we call? How should we lead up to it? Is there gonna be crying? Is there gonna be anger? Do we shave? You know all those. Speaker 3 Uncertainty explains it very well. Speaker 2 So the the the variables are too many and therefore the fear exists inside the variables. Speaker 3 Too much data. Too much data. Speaker 2 Too many options to choose from. And that's why fear exists, right? Speaker 3 This this also adds it because right now I feel like I have too many options. Speaker 2 And that's OK. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's the collapsing of the so, so fear in a weird way, fear does two things. It has so many data and it has confined perspective. It's just a really weird thing. It sort of shrinks your world and then it has too many data points about that shrinked world, right? The world gets smaller and then it's got too many data points swimming in that smaller world because you're, you're, you're anxious. The amygdala is being hijacked a bit. So. So the opposite just moves you to OK, let's talk about the breathing room of the opposite. What's the opposite feel like for you? Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my current belief is that I can confidently sustain and maintain and even strengthen the equilibrium I've built over the past five years for the next 5 or 10 years with clarity and intention. I trust that the foundation I built over the past five years is resilient enough to carry me forward sustainably and purposely for the next decade. Yeah. It's makes me feel more at ease, relaxed. I think I'm doing the right thing on the right path. It's just if I, if I would use numbers like I, the slope is positive, as in I'm getting towards that, but at the very slow pace, like 30% speed compared to what I should be 100%, maybe even 25%. But it feels like it resonates with what I'm doing right now, just super slow. Speaker 2 Brilliant. Super Slow is a is a in storytelling. What is super? What is that data? What is super slow telling you? Speaker 3 Boring. Turn off the TVI don't know switch to Netflix. Sorry, I'm making it the. Speaker 2 Great, great. There are obstacles. Speaker 3 Obstacles. Fair enough. Yeah, it is. Speaker 2 And, and, and it becomes the interesting part of the story. However, for us, these things slow are boring, tired. These are not the interesting part of the story, right? And, and that's, that's the connect. But actually, if you stay pulled outside. So when we ask at this point, we will ask the AI to from this sphere to the opposite. AI as pattern recognition And for the first time we are asked, we are pushing the, the, the, the your fear to a character from this fear to the opposite. Tell me what this character will have to go through. Sorry, what obstacles this character will have to face from this fear to the opposite. Tell me what obstacles this character will have to go through. At this point, AI lists quite sophisticated to be honest with you. We used to do this like in hours in, in, in workshop by ourselves, like our brain would have to imagine this. And now AI puts this output and often they're very, they're quite good. Speaker 3 I just prompted it. Speaker 2 OK, And how did you in in. Yeah, your seats. You're shaking your hands suddenly the obstacles of interest. Speaker 3 Yeah, exactly. You want to know how the story moves forward? Speaker 2 Yes. Now we want to know how the story moves forward. So before it was just two states. Now there are obstacles and we want to know, we're curious how is this going to, how is this going to unfold? OK. Speaker 3 OK. Speaker 2 So they they give you a list of obstacles. I don't know whether we want to go through them. Speaker 3 Yeah, of course, obstacle. Something destabilizes the equilibrium. Income uncertainty, relationship tension, health scare, professional rejection mark, a downturn the character must experience. Ah, my equilibrium is not guaranteed. Speaker 2 Sorry, did did. What was the prompt? What was the exact prompt you gave it? Speaker 3 From this fear to the opposite, tell me what obstacles the character should go through. Speaker 2 OK. And they didn't list a A series of obstacles 1/2. Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Loss of illusion of control, exposure of hidden, hidden dependencies, identity stress test. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair enough. Rebuilding. Speaker 2 Right, So at this point, people, people do exactly what you're doing 'cause they're like, oh gosh, I recognize these things. I'm laughing. But there is also a relief, right? There is a relief in understanding. I recognize these, these obstacles and I have just been floating in them in different places and suddenly this thing that is inside you gets outside. And now you're starting to look at a sentence and you're starting to look at the opposite sentence. And you're starting to look at the obstacles. You are actually recognizing and, and, and, and for the first time, the thing that is within you. And in narrative psychology, they say the I'm sorry, I don't, I'm forgetting what it is, but it's, it's, it's closer to saying you are not the problem. The problem is the problem and you're looking at it outside. And so it's a form of taking, taking the, the story outside of your body. And now you're starting to look. And so that's what AI gives us. That's why we use AI, because you're taking the story outside of your body into an observational tool. And now you can look at it and you can say, ah, that's an interesting sentence. My body feels this way. That's an, it may suddenly you're, the story is outside of you. And that is a very powerful place to be. You can edit it in a way that you it's difficult for you to edit it when you have 700 versions of this inside your brain navigating. Speaker 3 Beautiful. Yeah, this resonates a lot, but. Speaker 2 And remember what we said about obstacles. What did we say about obstacles? Help me understand. What did we say is the most? Speaker 3 Popular thing that they uncovered truth and they allow you to turn into the hero you are meant to become. Speaker 2 The obstacle is the way that as as as the things because. Speaker 3 Gorgeous some some things I can journal about Kanak very I love concreteness, so thank you for. Speaker 2 So I will, we will not do, we will not do the next two, the next two processes. But basically you will, you will prompt the AI to just tell the story of the person who goes through the fear and the to the to the opposite and goes through the obstacle. So you, you ask it to tell a story and it creates a story, not your story, like a, a parable of this. And often when people see the parable, some cry. It means so much to them. Some laugh because it's like, OK, there's a weird parable, but there's, there's something that that ignites in their brain, right? Something that goes, OK, this is kind of me or this is interesting. Something happens because the, the story is now externalized. Smallest action step And then the next thing we do is we, we explore the smallest action you can take from the fear to the opposite, the smallest tiny action. So suddenly the fear gets into the drama and then you have to physically go and take the smallest action. So then you become the actor, you become back the hero of your story by watching this process and say, OK, I can take this smallest action in the air. I can suggest the smallest action. But often at this point, we want, we want some ownership back. We want to take this experience that's come out of the body into a machine, back into the body, into real life. And we do this in 45 minutes. And then at some point you will start just doing it in 10 minutes. Sometimes just the fear in the opposite is enough. If you're fast, you can feel fear. You just think about the opposite. Yeah. Speaker 3 You can apply it, I believe in so many things. Incredible. It's a beautiful way to move forward 100% or at least know what to do to move forward. That's exceptional. Thank you. Thank you very. Speaker 2 Much and so that's that's a that's a really interesting thing it's and that's why we we we talk about it in the context of decision making, right because of the action right. So it moves perception. There is a cognitive and there's a regulatory body system all in one fear opposite obstacle story action, which can be done in 10 minutes with AI can be done in 2 minutes with fear the opposite. You can just break just one, you know, whichever part you're in a meeting and you're feeling anxious, you can just say, what is this? What is this fear? Just to know that there isn't, there's the opposite is enough. You don't even have to name the opposite just to know. Within this anxiety lies a gem of another story. Speaker 3 Yeah. And maybe maybe in some workshops you had, since you already used the AI with other people, this, this scenario occurred. I'm curious also just to know how you would navigate that because I would see many people say. Speaker 1 Yeah, but I don't want to follow what an AI is telling me. Speaker 3 Why, why? Why would I understand? Why would I interpret and change my life accordingly to an AI? I'm not going to listen to AI. I'm not going to be, you know, ruled by it. How would you answer to someone with this claim? Speaker 2 That is very good. That is a very, very good answer. The reason why we ask people at sentence number one, you construct the sentence right, then we ask you how you feel, your body, right. The reason we're slowing down all of this is we're not giving all authority to the AI. So AI only becomes the the pattern recognition because it's only doing, it's only looking at the words. That's why before I took, before I even tested AI, it was AIA professors who told me, oh, your entire method is based on a single sentence. One sentence creates the whole story. It can it AI can be used so it is just a reflective tool for patterns. All you are doing is saying, oh look at the pattern of the opposite. Look at the pattern of the obstacles that possible can create. And then it creates an alter ego story creates A parable, right? And we know parables are are powerful, but you then have to take the action, right? You then have to experiment on the action, not even take the action. Experiment on the action and come back. What happens when you experiment on the action that is driven, that starts with your fear. I'll tell you what happens. New fears. And so you break. Yeah, you're breaking. You're breaking your ritual, new fear arrives, right? So every time you and so you go back in the pattern and you go back to a new fear, you go back to a new discovery, a new truth, right? So, so the, the, the good thing about this method is that it pushes you back into the real world to experiment. And then you bring the real world to experiment, which is fear, the new fear that's arrived into the pattern recognition vehicle. The AI does not talk to you like a friend. It is not meant to talk to you like a friend. We have a free charge APT app that we use. And the instruction is this is pure cold, fair, opposite obstacle story action, no conversational meant, right? And there's a reason why we do that because I think it is meant. And I also have to understand how much of my interpretation is taken from the way in which my interactions with AI. But you would think about the, you think about it consciously, you think about it as a reflective term for pattern, reflective tool for patterns. But you become very conscious that you are not the, that you take back the action and you experiment with the action in the truth, because your body, there's your body. And, and the way in which, the way in which I think about this is the body as a tool of, of, of intelligence is the counterbalance to the, to the pattern recognition of technology. Speaker 3 Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah, you, you, you answered very well. The eye is just a refractive tool for pattern recognition. Feel this encapsulates it very well. Speaker 2 And the method asks for pattern recognition. That's it. It just asks for pattern recognition. It does not ask for a conversation of your deepest fears and where to go with the deepest fears. It does not allow it to do that. It will if you let the AI, if you just go there, it will let the AI will do that by itself. But when we use it, the AI is just a pattern reflector. Yeah. So the, the, the real, the real. I think when, when you come, as you have experienced and you experienced it once, you're you're excited about the possibility. And what I always say is, well, you're the hero and you are the scriptwriter. But the script writing principle was, if the scriptwriter can name the unconscious fear of the hero, at the moment you've put the conscious fear, you've put what you understand to be your fear. So how do we get to the unconscious? We follow the bread crumbs of your fears. So that's why the new action breaks the ritual breaks another ritual and new fear arrives. The accumulation of the data points of your fear allows the AI to make. So at 40 fears, different fears, you know, girlfriend, water, you know, the state of Europe, whatever all your at 40 data points it can look at, it can look at its first pattern. And when we do this, we are not asking people to buy an app. Well, no, it's like, no, you do this yourself. Use, use whatever AI you want. We just have the system and the community that helps us, helps you. So Mahidro is is when, when, when we the accountability communities that engage with safe spaces for this, so that they can engage with their fear, but also hold each other accountable to putting to testing weekly testing different things and therefore also thinking of the fear as a data. This is the, this is also the an important point that most of us maybe this is a new point that we don't think about. Fear is a data point, and a fear is a data point. It can tell us all kinds of interesting things. It can eventually tell you the driving value systems of your life. It can tell you not only the subconscious, but it can tell you how this collection of fears are shaping the way in which you choose dating, the shaping the way in which you choose your future job, the shaping the way in where you you choose the, the country you live. These things can, can, can be very interesting data for the way in which you're making decisions. And that's where we are going. So Mahido is, is sort of a community that supports one another so that you get the data points and you get the, you get the, the systems in which you can, you can ask it new, new information about the data. Why are we not building an app? Many people say that to me. Why can't why? It's much easier work. But and the the reason is the moral. They are moral questions. They are moral questions about the collection of fears. And everybody's already talking about their fears on AI. But for me, it is the question that you so well, you, you already understood so well. Like, how are we going to get out of this AI trap? Because we're beginning to distrust it. And, and, and the only way, as soon as I create an app, I will be bound by taking you on that journey, making you want to go back to that and, and, and, and, and the ethical question I'm asking is, well, it's already, it already exists. We have to figure out how to get them out. We have to see how to allow the, the magic of that and get them out. But so long as I build something that has an economic imperative, I will make sure that they keep going back in. Speaker 3 OK, so ultimately that this brings me to one of the questions I wanted to ask you then, because ultimately you would want them to recognize the pattern and then basically not interact with AI anymore and just proceed that way. Avoiding analysis paralysis Because my follow up question will be when do you cross the line of, let's say, I guess we can call it analysis paralysis, where you end up just over analyzing and analyzing your fears and you know, opposites of, of your fears without taking action and you want to avoid that, right? So where? Where is the line if you say? Speaker 2 I think that's a real problem, to be honest with you. I think that can become a real problem. I see that to be I see the ability to see our fears and to see our opposites as another form of anxiousness, right? So if we can see the possibility of our life, and we've experienced this with people, if we can see the possibility of our lives that we're not living it, we're not taking action, it creates a whole new form of, of, of, of, of anxiety itself. That's why community is important. That's why the building of community is important. That's why the system protocol to understand how to get out of the AI, how to sit, how to breathe, how to, to all of these things that we're developing that is getting out of the AI protocol as well is important. And we are in new territory. We don't know. So, so it's defined by the community we're building. And hopefully the community will inform us of, of the ways in which we can get back into the body and not get back, get into this loop of, of, of constantly analyzing. And I have been a victim of that myself with this method and AI sort of recognizing, oh, there's something really dangerous. In the amount of pattern recognition I am doing and so, so it comes from a it comes from a it comes from that truth. Like I'm looking at them going, OK, how so the more I recognize that in myself, the more the community can recognize that, the more we can share. What do we do to, to, because we, we are in new territory to assume that we understand this is, is, is is is the probably the most dangerous thing. I think one of the, the, the things that I continue to, to be a proud of is that we decided not, you know, last last or two years ago, I won the startup award and I chose not to go down that road. I said, no, we're not going to build the ACT. We're going to build a community because otherwise we're going we're we're just unless the community it's sophisticated and good and it and it has protocols that allow us to get out of the and as the app is the protocols to get us out of the technology. But I still think that's not a great thing. If this thing is helping you get out into your body, there's something there's something wrong. Speaker 3 Yeah. It should be you. It should be you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This one is a tough one for sure. It's would you say that AI gives you truth at the end of the day? It just exposes it to you like quicker. And it might be the risk of people not like being scared of confronting it to a point where it's healthy because maybe, maybe, yeah. Because it's hard when you have truth in front of you right away, even the your friends that might be incredibly direct with you, you end up maybe even losing those friends because you think they're too cold, they're not empathetic, they don't understand you. But maybe they were just holding truth this whole time, right? So would you say that AI is fulfilling this role or? Speaker 2 I wonder whether the, the, the, the, the question we are trying to get negotiate here is are we more patterns than we are willing to admit? And if we are ultimately more patterns than we are willing to admit, or are we, you know, Carl Jung would say the archetypes were the sort of culmination of patterns, right? These, these characteristics become this sort of individual. So I think there's a lot of truth in the, what we're discovering in humanity. There's a lot of truth in pattern. And but of course pattern can feel because it's at meta level, it can feel very powerful. But I think we exist both at meta level and at this human plane, right? We are constantly negotiating the thing that is above us and the thing that is, that is here on the ground. And therefore when we talked about community and, and, and all the things that we have to build. So it's this. I think life is this constant negotiation between what's happening at at a meta level and what is happening within my own little tiny story. And that is a very difficult negotiation. We don't understand why we are meant to negotiate that sometimes, like why are we existing in two stories simultaneously? You know, how do we interact with a global story that is so bigger than we can grasp? That feel makes us feel powerless. And yet how do we understand our place in the story? So that's the tension. We feel like we are we we are connected. We're hyper connected to the meta story and the global story and we feel powerless by it. We don't we understand that we are part of that and yet we can only we also have, we also exist in this individual story and we're about to discover that. So I think most people were about to discover that pattern gets us further at at the meta level. That's why AI is streamlining to common intelligence. But we also have our individual life that is sacred and is beautiful and is contradictory and it is patterns in real time, in real contradiction in real human ways. And these two things must exist. And I think the what we are guessing is the second thing will suddenly become simultaneously more urgent. The the, the, the truth of the individual existence becomes more urgent because the streamlining of the pattern will become so sophisticated that it will make decisions for us. And yeah. Speaker 3 Maybe. Maybe you're already the step ahead, right when we reach ultimate abundance, right past the stage of sufficiency we might all need to create the Marijo communities. Maybe that becomes our purpose. Speaker 2 Oh, we might, we might. We might just need to create huge communities. Speaker 3 We're humans, right? Speaker 2 Yeah, deeply meaningful communities. Speaker 3 That's probably connected to my main fear because I I'm afraid I have the fear of not being in the community that I should, that I should be in, that I want to be in. Speaker 2 Right. And when you think about community, it's you are no longer dealing with a community as an individual, you are dealing with the community in the especially in your generation at this. Well, I, I think I'm in it as well at a scale that you can never imagine, like which is the community, the digital community, the country I decide to move. Speaker 3 Yeah, exactly. Because like digitally, I, I am in the best community, like all my friends are reachable via like digital means. But that's not, it's not, that's not the, it's like AI, like it's, it's, you need the, the physical presence that you need the endorphine, you need the, yeah, the whole human aspect, the touch, the, the smell of the pheromones. Speaker 2 Yeah, we, we are discovering what that need, how urgent that need will become and, and and, and the more we cannot satisfy the need, the more we will hopefully collapse into desiring the need. So, you know, if from a storytelling perspective, well, we have to collapse first in order to, to say we, we want this, right. Speaker 3 I just thought about it the the economical way, because if if this collapse of I guess value, right? If we don't see value in humanity anymore because AI reaches our level of overabundance, then it what happens? 2008 five point O markets don't crash. They just disappear because the sense of money is gone. And then I'm just philosophizing here. I'm just saying like economically, it could that could be a good crash. Let's say a a big break for for the story of humanity to actually start. Speaker 2 Yes. And the the frightening thing about the principle that I just started with, in order for a story to begin, a ritual must be broken. You're sort of like wondering, OK, what is this massive ritual that has to break in order for us to be transformed? And where in this, what kinds of obstacles will we have to face in order to in transformation? And our stories are never easy. They're difficult, right? So, yeah, we're in the midst of not knowing where the where the ritual will break and, and what it will call out of us as human beings. And. Yeah. And, and thank you, Ricardo, for the those really, really insightful questions. I think it's a pleasure when I get somebody who wants to. Speaker 3 Oh, for me, thank you for leading me through this introspection journey that I just was able to do through you. And like you, you, you. I mean, I can call you also a psycho, a psychoanalyst right now because like this, that's the side of the brain that would, yeah, fire up in a therapy, I believe So. Yeah. I have to thank you. Of course. Of course, Of course, of course. Yeah, you need the license and everything. It's it's it's the whole thing. I know a. Speaker 2 Scriptwriter that has a method that is possibly for a certain demographic, it is possibly and that's why I work with, with, with founders, right? There are high levels of self agency meets high levels, high levels of anxiety meets high levels of self agency. It's a, it's actually a risk. It's the reason I work with them is because it helps me live in the responsible space of where this method can exist. And I and why it's related to decision making is because it's allows me to not assume that I can do the work of the, the deep work that therapist and psychoanalysis do or, or, or or that AIS makes that assumption as well. So you have to be very careful that when we talk about fear, it is just a perception to it's a tool on perception holding together. Speaker 3 Oh, well, you're definitely turning on the the engine like the the reasoning engine that allows you to at least navigate them. Of course, action on it is a different story. But yeah, it's it's definitely a method that I see working at least on myself in terms of how someone is supposed to be feeling when they go through this, this this questionnaire. So thank you. What's? Speaker 2 Me, it's always generosity when somebody is willing to talk about the affair. Speaker 3 Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, of course, way more compared to a couple of years ago. But lately I I like to open up more. Like I, I feel like I first need to resolve it myself, but then like ultimately the actually, OK. Can we close it off with a big question? High status and discernment What is the definition of high status for you? So what is for you? A person that has high status compared to one that doesn't. Speaker 2 I, I think this decision is so driven by where I am in my life now. I am intrigued by people who decide who who discern that means they pause, they pause, they pause and they decide. So this thing for me so. Speaker 3 CEOs. Speaker 2 That's right. Speaker 3 Probably CEOs I guess. Speaker 2 Yeah, but this the but but also just sort of like what is that pausing? What are they pausing, pausing? What is this brain doing right? And high state. And I think that decisions and high status, there's a core relationship here. So I mean, so. Speaker 3 So taking the decisions you want to take for you is a signal of high status. Speaker 2 I think just I think discernment is high statement status too. So you can say a Buddhist monk is a discern discerning high status. They live in a different kind of of of currency and reality. So discernment, discernment in Buddhist monks, discernment in not talking about CEOs that scream at each other, No, but the ones every now and then you'll see one that just you can watch the brain sorting out something and then it's a very clear decision. And so I think discernment and decision making as a vehicle for whatever the definition of high status. What is monk high status discernment, you know, of a CEO. I I'm intrigued by this. Speaker 3 Beautiful. Yeah, that that answers the question. Cool. Speaker 2 Thank you my friend. Speaker 3 Nice. Thank you. Thank you, my friend. Absolutely. No, it's a pleasure. I wasn't expecting such an insightful and deep, I would say an introspective episode today, but I'm very happy we were able to navigate together and looking forward to #2 even with someone else maybe because I, I would like now that I have a very like clear profile of who you are and where you expect his lens, I have some ideas of people I could involve in in adding on to the, the conversation. So I would love to yeah, navigate that as well. Speaker 2 I would love one of the things that are just, you know, I think one of the reasons I say yes to these conversations is because I love conversations. It's the easiest yes for me to make to say to. It's the easiest, yes. Speaker 3 That's beautiful. That's beautiful. And if it's also something that you spend your current endeavours in and your current passion in, I think it's beautiful to talk about. And for me as well, because I mean, it's it's yeah, I was able to navigate the some stuff that I was, I was learning myself as well. So it's a, it's a win win situation, I think. Maya Angelou on success Cool. Then let's close it off with a scripture of literature that you believe has shaped decisions, important decisions in your life. Speaker 2 Oh, can I get my phone to answer that question? Of course, because I'm going to get it wrong. And so Maya Angelou. Speaker 3 Maya Angelou. Speaker 2 Maya Angelou. The the, the writer. Yeah. It's so simple. I, I I I couldn't believe it when I read it. I was like, really? This is it. Maya Angelou. Success is liking yourself, liking what you do and liking how you do it. And I thought, Oh my God, that is so true and so hard at the same. Speaker 3 Time. It's the ultimate goal. Speaker 2 Liking yourself, liking what you do, sorry, and liking how you do it. Speaker 3 And is this a quote from the writer or is it a book? Speaker 2 This is a quote from the writer Maya Angelou. Yeah. Speaker 3 Cool. Speaker 2 Yeah, And I think it's, I love that because it's so simple. Like I, I think that's, I think we make so many things complicated and this idea of liking yourself, wow, that's like, wow. Speaker 3 That's beautiful. Cool. I believe this this is the best, best way to then close it off. And thank you again for for joining. Speaker 1 Hello everyone, and thank you for tuning in to today's episode. Today's conversation made I believe one thing outstandingly clear. It's not about eliminating fear. It's not about optimizing decisions, and it definitely doesn't mean outsourcing your judgement to an external technology. Raymond showed us a more grounded truth. Fear is not an enemy, it is structured information waiting to be interpreted. From breaking personal equilibrium to reframing obstacles as narrative engines, to using artificial intelligence as a pattern mirror rather than an authority. What emerged today wasn't a productivity hack, it was a shift in perspective. I would call it a shift towards a more outward. I would say it was a shift into a more distanced perspective to look at our life from a third person perspective. I would call it a shift to a third person perspective, a higher level of conscious judgement over our experiences in life. The principle I believe that captured this episode the most is that fear is data. Please, to explore Raymond's work, visit myhijo.com. Spelled MYHEJ o.com. If this episode made you rethink how you approach decisions, if it made you uncomfortable, even better. I'll see you on the next episode of Chit Chats, and until then, don't outsource your thinking. Use tools to discover patterns and most importantly, stay curious.