Ravi Coltrane Teaches Us How to Listen to his Father’s Catalog

I'd always had some copy of that solo whenever I was flying. My idea was like, okay, if the plane starts going down, I'm going to put this on. If we're going down, I want to go out listening to this solo. And maybe the first thing you hear when you get to the other side? Hopefully. Yeah. Just introduce yourself to this camera, and then we'll just talk. Hi, my name is Ravi Koltrain. Thanks for coming. Excited to have you here. Thank you, Jack. I have a few songs queued up, and they're a little bit career-spanning, but I want to try and arrive at a better understanding of John Koltrain, me too, as a musician. And I think like the beauty of this and these speakers is we could just, we could just listen to the music. Around midnight, this is the first recording that John does with Miles for Columbia Records, 1955. Miles is not only an innovator in terms of what he was able to do throughout his lifetime through the course of his music, but there's like a innovation and sound, sound production, you know, the Harmon Mute, especially. You can't listen to any trumpet player play with a Harmon Mute and not think of that, not think of Miles Davis, you know. That changed everything, you know. And he tended to pick players who also had beautiful sounds. You know, John Koltrain has too any accompaniment there in the harmony there, and the blend between them is so, it's so perfect. You know, it's really just sumptuous, just for the years, just to listen to the tones of these players. It's really striking. What do you think they potentially learned from each other? Well, I think John Koltrain learned about space. There's a very addensity to his playing and, you know, there's a famous story about John getting caught up in a solo and, and then apologizing to Miles saying, I just didn't know how to end it, you know. Miles said, just take the horn out of your mouth. Yeah, their styles were contrasting, you know, and, but that's, again, another strength that they had together, that they were individuals. They had individual approaches, masterful players, yet with their own, each with their own thing, with their own sound, with their own vibe. [Music] It's kind of leading. Craziest jazz tune ever written. [Music] [Music] See, that was as much space he wanted to use before he, he launches into space there. Fast and back and forth and everyone. Trinkle Tinkle. Yes, it's a classic. That's one of the first, uh, month tunes that I ever heard. And I actually didn't know they were playing a melody there. I just thought, it was just a bunch of wild notes coming in. It's like, how did they do that? Yeah. But that is one of the most wild melodies that Monke ever written. And obviously John Coltrane was up to the task of playing a melody like that. That's a tricky tune. That group, uh, with the loneliest Monke, uh, John Coltrane, Shadow Wilson, I think, playing drums. They did a, uh, a stand at a club called the Five Spot for about six months. I think the band was there each night for six months. And Amiri Baraka used to live near the Great Poet. He said he was going almost every night. In the beginning of that run, John, he said John was scuffling like crazy on those tunes. Couldn't play any of these Monke tunes. But by the end, yeah, they had, they had kind of moved the ball forward. You know, that really, uh, reshaped a lot of modern, uh, jazz music, 1957. And it gave John another push, you know, dealing with the kind of harmonic complexity of the loneliest Monke's writing. And also the freedom that Monke would, Monke would, would comp for a few courses. Then he'd get up for the piano and start dancing. And then John could stretch out even more, you know. So it really helped him, uh, expand, you know, at this period in this career. We did you discover this music? Was it always there? Was there a time in your life when you said, I got to get into this and start exploring this? Yeah, it happened later for me, you know, I, I wasn't listening to the music when I was younger. You know, my mother would play some of the records for me, you know. But when you're a kid, you want to listen to what your friends are listening to, you know. So, you know, I'm listening to R&B music and rock and roll music, you know. I like a lot of classical music as well. You know, the music that she would, of my father's that she would play for me, is usually some of the music that was later, like his impulse years. So I had an ear for that and I had an appreciation for it as well. But I wasn't really checking it out, you know. And I played the clarinet in junior high school and in marching band and in high school as playing clarinet. And as I got older, you know, I think I was meeting a lot of people who knew more about John Coltrane's music than I did. So it's a little embarrassing, you're getting, you're at a party somewhere and it says, someone says, what's the second to it and the second side of the impressions? What date was that? What, you know, on a psych, you know. So one thing when you're little and you don't know shit, you get older, you have, you even, I mean, just on principle, you kind of have to know certain things. So I started playing the records just so I would have something to talk about at parties, you know. And I get a real answer to this question. Yeah, and then for shows like this, you know. So yeah, I was maybe 18 or 19 when I started to really listen to the records. Again, just to get information. But what happened instead was I fell in love with the music, you know, which was unexpected. You know, I'd heard the music before I listened to it before. But at that period in my life, it hit me in a very different way and had another effect on me completely. And I just shifted this, everything was about jazz and consuming those recordings in that music. Yeah, I can't imagine that there was a like pressure on you in any way to be a musician and yourself from your mom. It was there. It was like, oh, being the band in high school, you kind of figured that out yourself that you wanted to do that. Absolutely. And I think that's, it's important for any artist, any musician, any creative person. It's something that you have to really choose. You have to really want to do that. It's, it's always like a sacrifice. You're kind of giving up a part of your life and dedicating it to the pursuit of an art form, you know. And so you really have to mean it if you're only doing it because you feel compelled to do it or somebody your parents want you to do that. They want you to be this and you have to kind of, you're trying to please them or society in some kind of way. If you don't go in it all the way, you know, as much hard as you can, yeah, it's not going to be a fun ride for you, I guess, you know. Well, 1957, I guess we got a ways to go. We're making our way. There's still, I mean, even even in a year and two years and a couple years, there's a lot of change in discovery and moving the ball. I mean, isn't that part of the story of John Coltrane, the growth and the exploration that happened so like just prolific and expansive and exploratory. We're essentially, I'm assuming, we're going to listen to music from '55. Yeah. So, well, when he passes '67, that's 12 years. Yeah. 12 years. I think we could all think about what we were doing 12 years ago. And I was, we've progressed and grown since then. I mean, I mean, we all grow a little bit in each moment, each stage of development. But what he does in that span of time is, I mean, it's barely something you can describe. You know, you either have to be there and witness it, you know, or put these records on and say, well, how did he get from playing this way to, you know, to playing this way and how he's playing this way. And also, he's surrounded by other great, great musicians who were also trying to find their own voices. That was, it was an important component of being a jazz musician during this era that you had to have your own voice. Like, they would call you out if you were copying somebody else's style. Today, that seems to be kind of encouraged. Yeah. Yeah. You know, if you play like somebody else and that means you're good, and that means you're a jazz player, if you sound like someone else, you know. But that wasn't really part of what they were doing as artists. They were looking to be unique and have their own voices, you know. So you would have to stretch, you'd have to search and find things, you know. So he was obviously a seeker, you know, in some I'm very, very, very intellectually curious about music and sound and the universe and how it all related to what was coming out of his saxophone. And I think he was looking for a universal language, a universal voice, a universal sound. And as, again, his music started to expand, it started to expand, you know. And there's this relentless commitment to practicing. Oh, yeah. That helps. And I guess if you want to find your voice, it's, you got to do that, but it's also just like, for some reason, just clicking it and saying, like, this is, it's going to be huge amount of hours and work that go into this thing all the time. Like, just one note, like, there's a story that it's just like playing one note over and over again for hours. I mean, one note can be a meditation, like, it could be a mantra, it could be, you know, dance inducing, it's trying, you know, they're trying to elevate beyond the kind of conventions of, you know, Western music, you know, they're a part of that. That's however one. There's a foundation of very structured, concrete music and musical conventions and ideas, but they wanted to go higher. They wanted to go past that, you know. [laughs] [laughs] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] How hard is that? [laughs] How hard is that to play? For them, not that hard. [laughs] They're in it. I mean, they don't drop a beat. I mean, when, I mean, it's Paul Chambers on bass. I'm not sure who's playing drums. Maybe our Taylor's on drums on that. But they're young masters at this point. I mean, especially in this, for this language, the bebop language, you know. And, you know, on gigs, the tempos can get up there, you know what I mean. And every now and then, they would do that in the studio where they would really just push, you know. But they could pull it off. I mean, they could really pull it off. Do you have a favorite era or era that you were turned to? Not just of culture, but of jazz music in general. Like, do you find yourself going into bebop? I think if I have. Often or no. And a favorite era would be the 1950s and 60s. There are many ways two very different eras, you know what I mean? But players like Miles, players like John Coltrane, Wayne Shorter, Sunny Rollins. I mean, it was such a fertile period for the music. And these incredible artists, they were kind of. You know, we're still reflecting on this music today, 60, 70 years later. It's still as important. It hasn't been surpassed in any type of way in terms of the language. These guys were language creators. I mean, this is the same language we're still playing today. You know, they said after Charlie Parker, nobody else was going to come in and change the language. It felt like Bird went so far past Benny Carter or Johnny Hodges. You know, the alto players that he was listening to when he was young. And past the conventions of Louis Armstrong, who was credited at really being the first person to play a jazz solo. But lo and behold, it was Horned Coleman, who was doing something very different with the language. And then John Coltrane was doing something significantly different with the language. So we're still digesting what those guys did 60 years ago. And I guess in that time frame, the recording is at a high enough quality that it doesn't sound. It sounds like a modern recording. And if you go a little bit earlier, it sounds more antiquated. It doesn't sound the same as it does. Which is funny. I'll just play a touch of this. The thing is, it sounds perfect. The music is as modern as anything. Everything, right? Every now and now where there's so much kind of reflecting, reflecting on the past. This answer suggests that there's not a hip-shed happening today. Or young creative people pushing the music today. But because these guys were so modern, yes, that's why their music stands the test of time. The clothes they wore that might have all over time. That might look. and they're pretty hip. They're pretty hip. Miles, for sure, definitely. These are transcendence. So this is like almost the opposite in terms of the speed of what we just listened to. It's a counterpoint. Yes, they called it "hard-bought" before. Like it's hard, so it's got an edge to it. And then they were calling this. well, they weren't calling it "cool jazz". But Miles could cool things down. You know, it could just cool the temperature down. The mood, the atmosphere gets cooler, more relaxed, you know. It suits his style perfectly, you know. And then John has to resist going too far. He has to come cool down as well. But if you listen to this group a year later, when they go to Europe, they're playing the same tunes. But the tempos are starting to move up. And John is playing longer solos and more denser solos, you know. So that's part of the progression, part of the evolution of music. Take the horn out of your mouth. Absolutely. Take the horn out. Let me just see if I. You know, it's also this modal period where they're moving away from bebop harmonies. And playing on a mode. Playing on two chords, the song is two chords, you know. So it does give the solos room to try to expand. It's like, "Well, what can I do with one chord?" It's like, "Well, you have to explore that." And John was doing that with, you know. You know, playing longer lines, you know, more arpeggiated lines. You know. But he still has to be cool, you know. You got to listen to this stuff from the European tour they do. But they'll play so what, and John will play it. It's a different song. 10 minutes so. Yeah. Just as a counterpoint, I guess. Right around the same. right around the same time. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Can you imagine that? These guys are, John is what, he's 32. Yeah. 1959. Yeah. One week, we making kind of blue and then, another few weeks later, making, uh, giant steps. It's the most important album from the history of the music. You know. It's also Paul Chambers, who's also on kind of blue. Very different energy than, uh, uh, so what? You know. And a lot more chords. What changes do you hear from the earlier stuff that we're listening to? And now, hmm. You know, I. The swing feel has changed a bit. Yeah. You know, uh, it's got a little looser, you know. Even at a temple like this, there's, it's got a little flow. It's not as, uh, it's not as rigid as it was five years earlier. You know, where things were a little, a little more specific. You know, guys were playing it, uh, for dancers in ballrooms, you know. And coming out of the swing area, things were a little bit, the swing feel was a little straighter. And then now it's a little bit wider now. It's got a little bit more of a swagger to it, you know. No one ever attempt to do anything like this with harmonies and improvisation. You know, that's, that's definitely new. I mean, these giant steps is not based on traditional song forms. It's not based on blues. It's not based on a 32 bar style, um, uh, Tin Pan Alley song, you know. Uh, it's its own creature. It's a, it's a chord sequence, uh, essentially. Uh, that John turns, you know, the 16 bar form turns it into a tune, you know. Uh, it's pretty audacious, you know. It's like, um, and I think the, the members of the group, Tommy, Flanagan is playing piano in this. I think he got, he got the, the chords and, but he didn't realize they were going to play it at this tempo, you know. Uh, giant steps is almost like a bunch of little turnarounds, you know. Um, all cramped together, you know. Uh, and John's playing the shit out of it. (upbeat music) - Face in the triangle. It's Phil Schienker November 1961. What should I listen for? Well, oh man, again, he's gone again, I think Miles did influence him a lot with taking away the chords. You know, he was still in a very dense harmonic kind of centric way of being giant steps. You know, it's like the Postal Thelonius Monk, Harmonic Explorations of John Coltrane. It goes right after his time with Monk 57 through 58 through 59, but 1960, again, he finishes one last tour with Miles to start his own band to really come out as a leader, which he does in 1961. And these recordings of the village Vanguard are really those of the first early statements of John with a new band and kind of a new approach. You know, he's dropped a lot of the giant steps, the harmonies, the density and the material. Yet he retained a lot of the shapes, you know, dub it up, dub it up, you know. But playing that to not just suit the changes of something like giant steps moving really fast, there's no changes really on something like Chase the Train. It's like a blues, but it's basically just playing an F, gives John room to be more lyrical, you know. So it almost has like a folk music sound to it. John was listening a lot to Ornette Coleman during this time. And Ed's music is like a form of folk music, you know. So John is playing shorter phrases, more kind of lyrical lines, singable types of lines, you know. But yet still kind of staying very expansive. You know, last course gives him more room to interpolate, you know, to interpolate the harmonies, you know, and substitute harmonies, add, you know, kind of, you know, moving through different, not staying in one key, you know, just moving, you know, just moving through. This is a 15, this is like 15 minutes. That's not. It's sort of keeping like the attention, but not never doing the same thing, right? Like never, like never gets repetitive. It's like, I mean, for some years, it might all the time, but just here, like, to one note, is he doing it? No, and that's the challenge for any artist. I mean, if you're going to play a solo for a minute on recording, you have to hopefully say something meaningful, you know, and not be repetitive, you know. If you're going to play a solo for 15 minutes, you have to be brief, you have to say something and be, you know, you have to really have a lot of intention about what you're doing, you know. It's, you know, creative, intuitive energy to, yes, to kind of expand on the previous phrase, the previous idea, you know, take a mode and then build on that, move from that to something else. So you're not just going through a series of licks that you've memorized or worked out. You're building on ideas, you know. And hopefully the rhythm section of the players you're playing with, they're also fueling those ideas. So you'll hear something, the bass player played, and it's not even a conscious thing, but it's something that you start to weave into your own narrative, your own place in the solo. And these guys played together for a few years? Oh, yes. This group, yes. And so there's a sort of a level of them growing together and figuring out that comfortable ability. Absolutely. Trust is very important, trust, you know. And that's also recognizing someone's voice, it's like their musical voice is, it's like you get a sense where you kind of know where they're going. They have a sense where you're going so you can kind of, you can go together and keep finding the next kind of levels level, leveling up. 1961. 1961. November, 61. We got a few more. 1963. So when you were discovering and exploring all these records for yourself, what else were you doing? Like besides listening to them, are you reading, like how, how else are you learning the history that's connected to the, to the songs? Well, with a song like this in particular, this was an acknowledgement of a bombing and Birmingham, Alabama, where four girls were killed, you know, a church bombing, you know, and, you know, there was obviously a lot of social upheaval during the 60s and musicians were reacting to that, you know. You know, today it's kind of clear where most people stand politically because they kind of wear it on their, you know, whatever that expression is, you wear it on your shoulder, your lapel, everyone kind of leads with that, you know. But he never, he never spoke out against this or for that, you know, he never shouted or yelled, you know, he just wrote Alabama, you know, and played it, you know. And you really, his intention is really clear, you know, it's right there in the sound of his horn, you know, to imbue the sound of your instrument with what you feel and what you believe. I mean, that's, that's powerful, you know, I think that's the thing that still resonates about this music. You can put a love supreme on for, for kids, for elementary school kids. They might not have ever heard jazz or jazz or culture or, or like it or understand it, but they know something is happening, they know something is going on, they can feel that there's something serious happening, you know. That's deep, you know. So speaking of which, so you, so I just think that this is a really interesting sort of thread to pull on a little bit how much story is just embedded in the feeling of, of the music and how much of his story you learned from listening to it the same way. So many of us have, it's a very similar way, you know, I mean, this music has to, sometimes the first time you put on some music, it could jockey, it's like, I don't really get this, I don't really dig it, you know, but the next time you go back to it, it's like jumping into cold water, it's like your ears acclimated, your body, your senses are, you know, and it starts to have another effect on you, another effect on you, you know, we don't always know why, but it is affecting us in a deep way, you know, and it's so worthwhile to spend time with these artists, you know, because they have a lot to teach us, you know, to inform us, you know, to enlighten us, you know, and sometimes it takes a minute to get there, you know, people ask, you know, I'm new to cold train, what should I listen to, you know, I'm not going to say put on interstellar space first, that might not help them, that's not going to be a real gateway record for that, you know what I mean, but it could be, somebody might say, I never heard of any cold train, I just went into this record store and just bought the first thing they said, cold train, and it was cosmic music or it was ascension, blew my mind, it was the greatest thing ever, it's like, okay, but yeah, that happens to, you know, I think Terry Gross basically said that yesterday, he said the first cold train record she had was ascension, I was like, it's pretty awesome. It's funny, because it's like, it is, it's like a brand that you could trust, if you don't know anything and you go into the record store and you're like, I guess you get a jazz look at a cold train, it's like, it's going to be something, it's going to be something, you know, and you're like, if you don't know anything, if you don't know anything, you're like, I know that this is, so let's, so it's, it's, it's an interesting question to ask you like, where should I start, you could, anywhere. It depends on how adventurous you are, how, how much patience you have, yeah, and I mean, if you're willing to really sit down and listen to it, if you like it, great, if you don't like it, maybe think about what, what wasn't about it, what wasn't about it, but you didn't like, you know, and kind of reconcile your feelings with the music, you know, put it away, go back to it, you know. Do it, do it. was that there was a great Wayne Shorter record called High Life. [MUSIC] I came out in the '90s and he had made a record in maybe seven or eight years. So we're all anticipating this record. It's a new Wayne Shorter record. And I put the record on and was like, okay, I'm like, okay, yeah, done. You know, I didn't move me like the last record did or maybe it was okay, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then I put it away and it was like a year later, I was driving somewhere. It was a long trip, just grabbing CDs back when you could put the CD right in the car stereo. And I was like, let me bring that high life. Let me just listen to it again. And then every day for the next three, four months, I played that record every day. I couldn't stop listening to it. I think sometimes we can have a preconceived idea about what we're about to hear and whether we like that or not. And it's like, sometimes you, again, if you're more patient or if you're kind of willing to kind of drop the preconceived notions and go on a journey with them, go on that ride with them, you know, it can really take you places. This is one of those records that a lot of people have just sit with for a long time. Yeah, yeah. Common told me that he listened to this every day for like two years or something. Like he would start every single day listening to this. And John Coltrane was going through a spiritual transformation. He had been reading all these spiritual texts and that's why he had acknowledgment and song and resolution and pursuits doing the four acts in that. There's something about that. Yeah. I mean, it's almost like sustenance. You wake up, you have your coffee, there's a certain routine people do in the morning. There was a piece of music I listened to every morning like ritual. The John Coltrane recording from 1965 at a club called the Half Note. He does a tune called One Down, One Up and he plays a 28 minute saxophone solo. The whole piece is just him soloing, 28 minutes. And for me, it might be his greatest recorded performance. I mean, it's like a symphony. It has all its layers and dynamics and it has a beginning of middle and end. It builds. There's a climax that brings you to tears. But I just got so used to hearing it every day. I wanted to hear it every day. I had to hear it every day. I used to, you know, back when we would make mixed tapes and cassettes and then we had many discs and then we had the CDRs, you know, when you would travel. You remember those big giant cases we put 100, 200 CDRs or whatever CDs into banging our little players. I'd always had some copy of that solo with me whenever I traveled, whenever I was flying. You know, because my idea was like, okay, if the plane starts going down, I'm going to put this on. Now, this is literally the last thing I ever want to hear. One down, one up from the half note. Maybe the first thing you hear when you get to the other side. Hopefully. Yes. Yeah. Okay. I want to just try you, because you mention this and then maybe this is a good place. Oh. Yeah, ascension. Ooh. I think one of the trumpets played a wrong note and the thing there was an E-flash. That should have been an E natural, we got to stop the take and start over again. Well, yeah, this is the beginning of this much freer period in John's music. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot to digest there. I mean, group improvisation today is kind of, you know, it's not uncommon. I mean, the roots of it aren't uncommon either. I mean, Dixieland is a form of group improvisation, you know. With this, again, it feels like, you know, John is still looking to expand, you know. His groups did get bigger as his ideas for that more universal sound to take place, you know. He added a second, he added Pharaoh Sanders to his group, two saxophones. The saxophone player calls another saxophone as to be in his band, that is kind of wild. Yeah. He had two drummers, he already had Alvin Jones, the greatest drummer on the planet. He added another drummer, Rajshit Ali, to that two basses, you know. You know, I think he just kept hearing a larger sound and this sort of collective dialogue, you know, to maybe overstate some of his musical ideas, you know. There's a motive that they start with and they're all starting with the same motive, and that motive could have been viewed with a meaning, you know, like a symbol, like symbology. You know, John's kind of symbolic message, you know. Let's just play this over again because for me, it represents X, Y, and Z, you know. I don't think he's telling his band members that, but for him, you know, he was embracing a spiritual path in a very dedicated way at this time, you know. He was very much into astronomy and the study of numbers. He had created some of his own musical systems based on the planets and the alignment of constellations. He was thinking big, definitely. And I think having an orchestra like this, small orchestra, you know, was just allowing him to make those ideas a bit grander, you know. But the guy did play any flat when he should have played any natural. So they had to do it again? They did, yeah. There were actually two takes, two full takes of this piece. Yeah. And the record company released the wrong tape. And when my father heard it and he said, "No, that's not it." And he kind of released the other ones. There's two versions of ascension. Yeah, if you go on to like a streamer, though, you can choose which one. You want to listen to? Yeah, choose both and mash them up. And hear the slight variations and differences and the similarities. And I mean, you hear sort of where that exploration almost is coming from when you hear the two next to each other. Yeah, there's definitely some growth between the two takes. You know, sometimes you're a little unsure. It's like, okay, we're with John Coltrane right now and we're doing something we haven't really done before. But you do it a few times that you can start to, you know, recognize the patterns and recognize, you know, how to shape the form and to, you know, the most musical expression as that form allows itself for, you know, it's still very free. When you said earlier that your mom was playing like more later, what was she, what kind of stuff was she playing when you were young? Well, I, you know, impressions, I heard impressions and live at Birdland, it's still 1963. She didn't often play the records that she was on. She's, yeah, you know, maybe modest in that way. But yeah, I was like the early impulse records I heard first and it actually took me a while to get my ear acclimated to the later records. I mean, hearing the interstellar space for the first time, it can freak you out, coolest a mama. I mean, there's a record called, oh, I don't know if I've ever actually listened to the whole record. I don't know if you should print that, but that's true whether on the record or off the record. I mean, that's a difficult record to listen to, you know, they were really going for it. And sometimes it's hard for the ear to get acclimated to that, you know. There was a record that was kind of a gateway record for me called Stellar Regions. It's around early '67, there's some stuff from February '67, it's a quartet record, so it's not two drummers or two saxophones, it's quartet. So right away, it becomes a little more easier to kind of digest and listen to, you know, there's 20 players playing, I mean, there's a lot of information there, but with the quartet and also the pieces were shorter. A lot of times when they're stretching out and it's a lot of intense free music and it's 20 minutes long, again, it's easy for the mind to glaze over, the ear to glaze over. This album Stellar Regions, the pieces are relatively short, three minutes, four minutes, five minutes. The most regular kind of jazz album length tunes, the length of the songs. And there are some beautiful themes on the record there, I wouldn't call them melodies, but they're themes that you can latch on to. playing, it does get, you know, intensive times. But it always stays very beautiful and lyrical. So that's, I mean, for anyone who would like to get into the late period of culture, and I always recommend that record as a good place to start. Stella Regions, Alice is on that record as well. - Centennial, what are some of the things that you're working on right now for that? That people can, should check out. - Well, we're doing a bunch of concerts at different concerts. There's a symphonic project that's been happening all year long, where Coltrane's music was arranged for orchestra. It's pretty cool. I did one of those gigs in Philadelphia a month ago. There's going to be another concert like that at the Hollywood Bowl with Locacia Benjamin playing. I'm doing a bunch of gigs in September. I'll be at the Blue Note in Hollywood, actually on John's birthday, September 23rd. There's a bunch of record releases, with there's some unreleased music. There's a guy named Frank Taibiri, who's about 99 years old. I'm not even sure how old he is, now 98. Who followed John's band around during the early 60s with a real to real tape recorder under his jacket. See, you guys are lucky now. You just got to, his break the phone out now. I mean, this guy had a real to real tape recorder under his jacket and a microphone. I mean, that was bootlegging. You couldn't actually record somebody else's sound for yourself, you know. They'd kick you out of the club if you were recording. So he secretly, he got permission from McCoy Tyron McCoy was a friend of his, so McCoy gave him that thumbs up. So Frank recorded hours and hours and hours of John Coltrane Quartet in the early 60s. Never made copies for anybody. He really was like a, at this sort of custodial sort of feeling over the tapes like he didn't, he wanted to protect the tapes. So, but we finally made a deal with Frank and those tapes are going to be released for the first time this year with Frank Tyberi tapes, lost Coltrane recordings. There's a cross label project where all of the labels came together to do a Coltrane 100 kind of box set. LP's stuff from the early days when he's on Prestige and Concord, stuff when he's on Atlantic, stuff when he's on impulse. And there's a coffee table book, a book that I edited and curated. The first time that's ever happened, you know, a photo book of John Coltrane that's coming on also in September, and that's about it. - I feel like I'm gonna have to go shopping because we have a coffee table right here, with no book. - It'll be perfect for me. - And we got a record right here, right here. - Thank you so much for taking the time. - Jack, thank you so much to us. - Thank you. - It was a real pleasure. - I was squeezing the mic a little tight there. - I'm squeezing it too. - I'm going to buy it by a little later. - I'm sweating there. - "Track Star Podcast" is a presentation of public opinion created by me, Jack Coyne, Kieran Coyne and Henry Coyne Aros, produced by Haley Sobel, edited by Ryan Durgan's, theme and original composition by Kieran Coyne. Mixing by Devin Klein, our agent is Joanne Orland at UTA. Thanks for listening. See you next Wednesday.