Ranking the Top 25 Players Under 25. Plus, a Moment of Truth for Caitlin Clark

(upbeat music) - Welcome to The Rig of WNBA Show. I'm Seared Sohee. I am joined by my colleagues, even Ruiz. He has been covering the WNBA for us alongside his, your main B is the NFL, correct? - That's right. Yeah, this is kind of a side hustle. Although I hope no NFL people are listening, but I kind of enjoy it more at this point. - It's a fascinating leak, I mean, how can you not? It's like, there's something new happening every day. What's been your favorite part of covering it? - Uh, honestly, just like the attachment that's grown with the mystics. Like I feel like I've had a whole, like you become, you start covering sports, especially like the NFL. I was a Panthers fan growing up. And like once I started covering it, like my love of the Panthers kind of just dwindled just because you have to cover every team. So it kind of filled that void as a fan. Like I think there is some benefit of being like the smart analyst who's like, you know, doesn't get too emotional, but sometimes you got to feed into that like inner fan side of you and just be irrational. Like my mystics takes, if you see me on Twitter, tweeting about the mystics, I'm usually pissed off about them 'cause they probably just lost. But you got to take them with the grain of salt. - Well, I will be taking all of your mystics takes as gospel here and we'll be talking about them plenty because well, you are a mystics fan. Like you've been following a lot of the young players in the league, so I thought that it would be fun to have you on to rank the top 25 players in the WNBA under the age of 25. And there will be a couple of people that we leave off the list, no AWFM, no use to your seatay, no free-to-buner only because we just haven't gotten enough of a sample size, but I do feel like, you know, they could definitely be in that running if we do this list again in like three months or something like that. So I think what we'd land on like a minimum three or five games played for rookies. The saddest part of this exercise for me was realizing that people born in 2000 or 26 now. - Yeah, I was disgusted, but we just in the birth years. Oh, seemed like 2005 as a birth year is just disgusting. - I know, I'm just not okay with it. And it won't stop, that's the other part. Have you noticed they keep getting higher? - Yeah, that's what they say about time, just keep going. - It just keeps going, it just keeps going. It's unacceptable, frankly. - I agree. - This is an anti-time podcast. We're in a freeze time, this exact moment. Listeners, if you're listening, you're actually, look at the clock right now, it's not gonna move. So you can listen to this on like 0.5 speed, do whatever you need to do. The other thing is this is not like, this is not a draft. It's not an evaluation of who a player could be. It's, we decided to talk about exactly who they are in this moment right now. So it's like, it's a ranking, it's a check-in. Everything is live, things could change next week. There are a couple players that I'm particularly nervous about where I'm like, oh, I'm like, I could feel completely different about you in two weeks. There's others that I feel a little bit more steadily about. But I'm curious, so what was, you know, when you do rankings like this, you do sort of like uncover trends. You start thinking about things that maybe you hadn't noticed. Was there anything in that realm for you? - Yeah, I think, I think that I had to like check myself 'cause I found myself just falling in love with the guards and there's a lot of young guards. And you had mentioned there's a lot of international players and I think it's kind of a Venn diagram there where there's a lot of good international guards right now with young ones coming up. And those were the hardest people to rank for me 'cause I felt like I was putting them too high, like a Paulina SDA, I was just like, I love watching her play. But that's not what these rankings are about. So I think just like giving into like the stylistic preferences was the hardest part for me. - Okay, I actually went through the same thing and I panicked, but like went down on my SDA rankings after talking to a few people about it, like just an hour before the podcast. But I think I had her way high and you're right. There's like, there's one chunk of my rankings where you just go through like every French guard. - Yeah, yeah. (laughing) - By the way, the French, the next Olympics, I'm scared. - Why don't you call me for French people and be asking for? - French people everywhere if you think about it. - True, it's, you know. - Yes, do you just want the Champions League? - This is true, this is true. I'm actually watching French versus Senegal next week at the World Cup. I'm going to New York for that one. - Congratulations, that should be fun. - Thank you so much. Yes, my friend's husband was busy with a wedding and he's like just inconsolable that he can't go, but I get to go now as a result. All right, anyway, let's get into this list. Where did, I'll let you start off. Who's number 25 for you? - I have Sarah Ashley Barker, but I don't know if you have the same experience. Like I had more trouble ranking 20 through 25 than I did. - The hardest part, this was the hardest part of the list for me, probably like 17 to 25 and some of the people I left on the bubble. And I'm a professional ranker. Like I do the ringer's quarterback ranking, so I am very used to getting yelled at about rankings on a weekly basis. And I was so scared that I was going to leave someone off and that the bottom of my rankings were going to be the worst part of it. But like, I'm trying to think of who I had in contention for this last spot, Isaiah James was one person. I mean, she hasn't gotten a lot of minutes recently, but like every time she plays and every time I watch, I just love her game and I love the way she plays. And I think she has high upside as a 21 year old. I, a part of me wanted to rank Alicia Flores from the Mystics, but she's only played two games and we kind of made a sample size declaration. We couldn't do that, but like, she has saved my life over the last two games. I didn't know who she was six days ago. - Yeah. - But before they played the second storm game and she's already my favorite player. I want to buy a jersey. - Well, let me ask you this. Another player that was on my bubble and then actually kind of fell out of my bubble and it's a tragedy. I had her pegged as like a dark horse rookie of the year candidate, but you're very own. Georgia Amore, it's a tragedy. What is going on with her? I just one of the most generation, one of the most interesting passages I've ever watched play basketball, but the height, the angles of the game just seem like they're getting to her. Do you think there's a pathway for her? Do you think that Flores is just gonna take her a role? - I think Flores is just so solid right now, but like you look at her numbers, it's only been two games granted, but Tennisys won turnover, which I think is a big deal for the Mystics who had turnover problems and have had turnover problems going back to last year. But I'm still high on Amore. I was like you, I had high expectations coming in and I kind of had to temper them over the last couple of games, but I do think she's starting to get more aggressive, starting to get in the paint more, which was a problem early on. Her handles are amazing. I think that's the best part of her game right now. Like she has given some veteran guards some real trouble staying in front of her. The shots just not falling. I think once the three-point shot starts falling more consistently and wants to pull up, starts falling, I think she'll be fine. And I think that's gonna happen. I mean, she missed last year, she's coming off an ACL tear. I'm gonna give her grace. I'm gonna give her at least two months before I give up on her and declare Flores the starter. - I kind of, I reserved the right to panic later, besides her being left off. Like she's probably somewhere around 31. We won't get into that part of it, but there's always people that you leave off in these lists. - What about Sarah Ashley Barker? - I just think she's a hard-nosed player. I just think she's a useful player, which is very hard to find with this age bracket. There are a lot of strengths and weaknesses. And I think with her, you wanna see more playmaking with a guard who has the ball in her hand a lot. But she's reliable when she shoots from three. I think she plays tough on defense, even if she's not the best defender. And I think she's a good connector of the offense. Like the offense in Portland just keeps flowing. I know you said, you really love watching Portland. I love watching Portland on both sides of the ball. And I think she's a big part of their identity right now. So I think that's why I'm giving her the nod over players that I think have higher upside. And the future like a Sinai Rivers, I left off my list. And I love Sinai Rivers last year. I loved her at NC State, but I don't think she's been consistent enough. She hasn't put the ball in the basket enough for me to feel comfortable putting her in the top 25. - Sinai Rivers is actually my 25. So that maybe a little mind meld there. Barker, oh, you know what I love about her? She could have just been a folkuit hero. She could have just had that amazing last college game. And you know, even just had the game winner for Portland and just been one of those players that is part of a lot of huge moments, but never really finds what is sick on the floor. But like she's been able to use her size, her athleticism, her cutting ability. And she's defending a lot of different types of players. As well. That's the other part that's like really interesting too. She's like, she will guard, JJ, she'll guard and reigning your hands, she'll guard. Kelsey Mitch, what in your words? Useful. She's kind of like turned herself into ultimate utility player in year two. But yeah, Sinai Rivers. So Sinai Rivers was my 25. And I am just, I'm holding onto my stock, is kind of where I'm at with her. The second year drop off is obviously been very concerning. Defense is on some level of figure to her out. I am though cautiously optimistic now that with the return of Layla LeCant, she'll be able to slot back into being more of a secondary person. But she just, she's got to find a rudder on offense. She's got to find something. She's got to find, I think she's actually a touch underutilizes a stationary shooter. They can open her up and as a cutter, probably in different systems that have a lot more shooting than Connecticut does. Maybe she's a candidate for, maybe we need a better, a different home for her at some point. There's also just a level at which like everything around the Connecticut players right now just feels like a Tillman for Tita Syop. So I just, I have a very hard time evaluating anything especially somebody who's not playing well because it's like I don't even like we'll talk about it I need some more a little bit later. It's like sometimes with the rotations and Connecticut I'm like are you guys just in a hostage situation like what's going on here? If you're just the players that he's finishing with sometimes and I respect you know I respect Hey like Anisa need to work under defense. I respect as a coach that you're gonna have a hard line on things like that Maybe because they're kind of you know taking um, you can be a little bit more strict about those things either way Connecticut It's a weird season. Look, Anne just got back. I just I'm holding on she has too much talent. She's too much talent for me. I agree like I'm still holding on to my whatever stock I had last year. I'm still holding on to it. I'm just disappointed in what we've seen early on But I do think it's the Connecticut piece of it and everything you're saying and I think she's one of those players That's gonna get a change of scenery and just explode in like two three years the talent is just like the body type the talent It's just all there like there's no reason she shouldn't be a great player in this league. Yeah for 10 years Yeah, and the change of scenery could just be Houston. I think a lot of it is like I think this franchise is gonna Just look very different and try harder in Houston. It sucks for the the the quote-unquote sunset, but it is just cynically it is what it is 24 All right, this is the player that I I felt like I either have her too high or too low It's probably too high, but I'm going with Tahina pal pal. Okay. I I think she is underutilized in Atlanta because of The depth of talent they have I think if she was in another place like Washington for instance You would get a lot more burn and I think we would see more consistent play from her, but I I think she's kind of put in a box as a shooter just because she's such a great knockdown shooter But when she drives like I think there's a little something more to her game Like I've seen her get into the pain. I've seen her finish. I think defensively She's obviously a little smaller, but I do think she competes I could see her being a starter in the league and in two or three years. Yeah And just that shooting I think she it's an elite trait that is only gonna get better So I actually had her at 23. So we're put a lot on this and I I felt the same way though Like I just felt like she's too low on this list But the same time she needs more minutes And I think one of the things that's going on with Atlanta is Jordan Canada's have having like one of the all time I dare you to put me on the bench seasons Like you just can't the way that she's playing defensively her pressure on the rim The basketball like you the intensity all of it like Jordan Canada, I think it had just one of those moments where she looked around at the at the depth chart She sees it is a boba release is coming in as well. And she was like oh, no We love this youth useful revolution you guys have going on here. I do not care like I'm I'm going to Make myself so damn useful that you can't take me off the court So right now it just puts pow pow in a tough spot But I do feel like even for the dream eventually like the best iteration of them is probably a version of pow pow Um, that's based on the floor running the occasional point. I think that she has a little bit of that her She can be a bit of a combo which help which would help her with her height and stuff too um Hi on her upside hi in the potential. I think it's just a sitting wait for her um, but I just I everything I saw last year everything I saw is self-care aligna her senior year She's a closer. She's a closer for a team who kind of needs that as well like she just doesn't This spotlight is never too big for her. I think those types of things matter So definitely somebody who like who you know, let's say an injury cracks open the rosation cracks open She could definitely hit that like like 18 even like 15 type of type of zone like Sooner rather than later. Yeah, I think she's getting like 15 minutes right now But like with the way they're shooting the ball compared to last year I think they need to give her a little bit more minutes because I think she is the one reliable shooter on the team right now Where you know, that's her thing But yeah, you're pointed about Jordan Canada. Yeah, I think it's spot on I I I could say this confidently. There's not a player that's faster with the ball in their hands and but There are some players like that in basketball that don't know how to utilize it And I think she's figured out how to utilize it like she just gets down the court and like you said put so much pressure on the rim Which is a big deal for them and I just don't even I don't think they've capitalized on it yet because they haven't been able to knock down three But once that damn kind of breaks. I think you're gonna be able to recognize Statistically how good she's been this year. Yeah exactly exactly and I think maybe that's the hope maybe that's part of the reason they haven't like You know broke the pal pile glass. It's like they just don't feel like some urgency yet Um, my number 24 is Caitlin Chen Who I think some people might be surprised to see on this list But I think she has just built herself into the type of player that coaches just trust instinctively She's steady. She's got the championship architecture. She makes a lot of good plays off of the dribble She hits gutsy shots She's a great three-point shooter. She's a good defender. She doesn't make mistakes All of those things add up to you get to play And I think the coaches have loved let's cut exactly exactly. Yeah She's that type of player and I've been impressed by the shot making this year like I was sleeping on her last year Obviously she played for that Yukon team. So I think she had a built-in fan base like my my wife Really liked Caitlin Chen? I was like you just like her because you remember her from college and then this year I'm like no, I'm wrong. I'm wrong. You were right. She's a very good player Yeah, I it's like it I think I think I caught a lot of people by surprise Honestly, especially with like the way she was in an out last year There was even I think I mean I hated this conversation I thought it was BS but there was this sort of like notion of worth of Valkyries using her for marketing And things like that too, which just didn't really feel true She just kind of like a lot of those players. They need their rookie year just to kind of figure it out. She has um Who is your number 23? 23. I have Alia Edwards, which I think I'm still Holding on to her draft stock like I Wasn't a big fan of her last year on the mystics like I was not sad to see her get traded especially for her first round pick I thought that was pretty good value Even though she still had that name and I think still still had the draft value hold on hold on a second Did you guys turn Alia Edwards into JC Sheldon into a 2028 first round pick? We did yeah I didn't hey And then they fired the GM, by the way Was that was that was that before they um of the Sheldon I don't the Sheldon trade definitely was but uh Flipping her into I don't know if they flip JC into but I thought they got Connecticut. No, they got a pick swap with Connecticut when they traded Alia Edwards There was actually there was a first round pick involved in that okay trade too. Yeah, that's what it was I think they got the right to switch picks um I think she's still like a useful player like I don't think she's ever gonna hit that ceiling that people thought she was like the first couple months of her rookie year She was like in the running for rookie of the year and then she kind of fell off and I She just she's been good and unrivaled and I think that gives you some hope She's a good defender, but like the shop making just isn't there and that's a big deal for her especially because she's an undersized bigger player who can guard bigs But she she just can't make shots around the ribbon. That's like what's holding me back from really buying into her being a Star player down the line, but I do think she's gonna be in a rotation for the next five to ten years Sorry to my country woman. She was not on my list Which I'm not mad at I'm not mad at I just struggle with like it's like a it's like a it's like a shirt That's on the right wrong button with her sometimes like it's If you put it all together it could make so much sense right like you you see the size The potential pick and roll ability when she was was doing in Connecticut With with page, but then you say yeah the with page on it and the fact that she was in college and it makes a little bit more sense um She's a touch too slow sometimes as well. Yeah, uh Obviously she's in Connecticut. She'll get her reps. There's things that she can do to improve her game Like I don't think that she's somebody that we need to look at as being like out of the league by any means Um, but I couldn't really I couldn't sneaker into the top 25 Yeah, I think my ranking of her is Like 80% based on unrivaled where she is like a very good She's so good in rivaled. We're just funny. Yeah, yeah I think it just speaks to like the weaknesses in her game. Like if it's tight quarters I think she gets a little frazzled and I think her her touch goes out the window when she has space to operate She could still be a decent score But I I do think that like shows off the weaknesses in her game. Oh, so maybe she's just another victim of the Connecticut space and conspiracy then That's like they could just be what it is. Um, all right. Who's your number 22? 22 I have Lauren Betts, which I I think maybe I'm just going off potential for this and I'm breaking the Yeah, and one thing I'll say I'll get the bad parts out of the way One thing I've been disappointed with her which I really had high expectations was the ring protection Like she I think I can count on my fingers how many on one hand how many times she's blocked a shot I could like actually remember the shot she blocked. She blocked like John Quill Jones She got a block of the last game But I think she has three blocks on the air and she's been in position to get some blocks and she's just a touch slow And I think eventually the game will speed up for her or are slow down for her and she'll speed up and she'll start Protecting the rim like we saw at UCLA, but just her presence on the court I know she's not off to the best start but Once shots start falling for her Just being big is enough It's like Clifford the big red dog where like all he's just a big dog and like that's the whole narrative like Even if that's what she is for the next two years I think that's good enough to average 10 points once she starts getting minutes We saw it in preseason and I know it's preseason and it hasn't carried over But in spurts you've kind of seen her put it together She had a little stretch against the liberty she got some minutes at the end of the first Storm game where she started scoring I think it's going to come along and I think Let's say she gets like 15 minutes of game I think she can get around she can average around eight and five and if she can get up to a block game. I think that's worthy of a top 25 ranking with these players. Yeah, look, I'm going to allow you to be a missus fan. I think that, like, if this is a draft, yeah, I'd be with you. I just struggle with her production right now. And I think it's almost like it reminds me of early UCLA, like, even Stanford, where I think that you just is a type of person who needs a little bit of time to get acclimated to the situations that she's in. I have faith in her long-term abilities of prospect, but a lot of it is the same problems, like, the traveling not because you have bad footwork, but because you're just kind of like the pace of the game is coming at you really fast. She's consistently shown an ability to catch up to those things. So I think she's wild right now. I don't know. I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait and see for maybe you're two for her. Maybe maybe end of this year. Number 22 for me, a walk here. She's also-- I had her 20th. 20th, okay. She is the one for me that has, like, the most likely to have, like, a very quick rise. Yeah. And she's had three straight double digit games. She's cracked Jose Fernandez's rotation. Alana Smith had the injury. She is going to be an important part of what they do. They want her playing three, four and the five at different times. Her efficiency has been absolutely insane. Some of that will come down to Earth, and I think, like, the question becomes, like, who is she once, she's not hitting half of her three pointers is certainly, like, a fair question to ask. But I just think that the versatility, the size that she brings, the way that she just, like, shrinks the floor on defense, just super valuable. She's awesome. I am just shocked at how skilled she is. I think, like, you kind of look at her and you're like, okay, she's going to be a rim protector. She's going to score around the rim. Like you said, she's been hitting threes. I know she hit that one at the end of the shot clock. There was, like, 10 feet beyond the line. But her passing on the move has been very impressive. She had, like, a fast break pass against the mystics that just, like, blew my mind. Her ability to pick up the ball on the move at that size and throw a perfect bounce pass. I think she has very high upside and if we were, if we were doing these rankings based on that, I would think about putting her in the top 10. Like, I think she has a chance to be an all-star, an all-star at some point in the league. Yeah, I mean, I was going to say that she could make this less better the end of the year, but she'll actually turn 25 by the end of the year. She's, like, 24 in, like, 300 days or something like that. She's awesome. And I agree. She's one of those players that, like, she's probably, she probably has the most highest upside on the, like, kind of, out of, like, the top 25 players that we talked about. 21 for me was Flosje Johnson. I had her at 18. Okay. I'm a little higher on her. And I think, I think I'm probably putting the cart before the horse here again. Like, the efficiency numbers are very concerning. But when she is making her shot, I just, there's a talent. There's an ability to score one on one that I think can't be undervalued. And I, especially in this league, especially with the storm where they're at, especially without Malunga, and Pham just getting her sea legs. I think that's part of the reason why her efficiency is so down. But I'm very intrigued by her skill set and what she can become. For sure. I mean, the efficiency, obviously, is a concern. However, I think she's, like, she's both better and worse than I think people would think. You know, like, if you just look straight at the stats, you're like, oh my gosh, this has been a disaster. But she's kind of been a revelation defensively. The way that she's used her athleticism, she's a really good point of attack defender, too. For somebody who came in just to touch oversized, undersize for her position. I think the way that she's been able to defend, especially as a rookie has just been impressive. And it's enough to keep her on the floor right now, which is really what you're looking for, for if you're her, right? She's going to be a great wing to win. Like, she's already a good wing defender in this league. We'll see if she becomes a great one. And then with the rest of the game, I think it comes eventually. Did we skip your 22? Yeah, my, no, my 22 was Lauren Best, my 21 is Raven Johnson. Okay. Yeah. All right. Let's hear it. Because I mean, her defense is just already there, which isn't surprising because of what she was at South Carolina. Her offense, like her shot comes in those, like, there are some ugly shots where you're like, Oh, that's the player that we, that we, that we, that Katelyn Clark waved off in the national championship game. But I think your shot making has been a little bit better and our offense has been a little bit better than you expect. And I think on the defensive side, which is where she's going to make her money in this league, her athleticism compared to WNBA players, that's, that's the one thing I didn't expect to translate right away. But she's like one of the most athletic players, athletic defenders on the court, whenever she's on the court, which is very impressive. And we already see Stephanie White Truster. We see her when they do the defense for offense subs with Katelyn at the end of game, she's always in there in crunch time. So she has that trust, she has that buy. And I think she still makes a few mental mistakes. And they put her on an island a lot just because we'll get into that when we talk about Katelyn, but they're defensive scheme. But she's held her own. And I think she's been better defensively than I expected, which is saying a lot. Honestly, if she turned it over a little less and she fouled a little less, she'd be on this list for me. But I think there's just too many things right now that are screaming rookie alongside the shooting, not quite being there yet. Otherwise, yeah, like I think still have faith in her as a prospect. I just kind of like, I did, I think I just tilted like very heavily towards like current production. All right, 20 you had a walk, right? Yeah. All right, 20 I have a Nisa Moro. Double double machine aspect of it, thriving in the Rashid, Mesean, Hostage, Syop, Tillman, Fatita situation, whatever we're going to be calling it, the space and conspiracy. But for me, it was really, I was actually going to leave her off this list, but I think that she's just made strides as a perimeter defender in the last little while that have kept her on the core. I think that it was a time where it was like Rashid just wasn't going to play her if she didn't defend. And she has and she had a complete body transformation this this offseason. And honestly, like Sarah, Sarah Ashley Barker, first team all motor. Like that's just you can't teach it. You just can't teach it. I had her around the same range three days ago. I forget what I when I send you the the spreadsheet, that's when I first put together in my list. I think that was like four days ago. And I've moved her up like four spots since then. Oh, okay. Because like you've seen the efficiency go up over the last couple of games, which was the I think she's shooting like 30% at one point in the season when she was losing minutes. And then there was the defensive concerns. Like you said, but I do think she's turned it on since then. And I think she's been more efficient since then and been more judicious with her shots. The rebounding, it's just something you can't overlook. I think it's an elite trait that she's going to I don't know if it's going to get better, but if she just maintains this pace, she'll be a top 10 rebounder in the league for the rest of her career, which is something like if you have something you can hang your hat on at this point in your career, I think that's worthy of a top 20 inclusion. One thing I think is so fun about her is she's one of those players that if she figures all this stuff out, she's going to be such a riddle as far as like who covers her. If she figures out the perimeter shooting, then it's like, do you put a big on her? Because then she'll just drive past them. But you need someone who's actually going to box out to do it. And then you also she's also going to be like one of those players that can set just the hardest screens as well. Like she'll be able to roll for you. So it's just going to be like, who do I put on her? Which I love I love players that just like make a coach over think a little bit. It's just it's just a great thing to be able to have in your game plan. 19 for me was Jade Melbourne. Yeah, I just think she's thriving and so on your Rubin's offense. Just like a guard heavy empowerment sort of like we're going to go up and down North South. She's one of the best North South drivers in the league and her free throw attempts of skyrocketed in this new system, which is really helped her efficiency. She's one of those players every time every time she has a good night, I'm like, like, what can you be really? Like she's steady right now, but she has a potential. She's just a great two way player as well. And now that the game is so down for a little bit, it's like the it's starting to come together. Yeah. And I was kind of shocked at how young she still is. I think she's 23. She's 22 not too long ago watching her in Washington last year. Like you could see that you could see that there were the bones of a good skill set. The way she attacked the rim leaving last year, that's why her tooth always popping out. That's why she's always getting hurt. She's just a hard-nosed player. She competes on defense. Like I don't think she's the fastest player in the world, but she just makes it difficult as hell to bring the ball to court. Once her shot, her three-point shot starts falling a little more consistently. I think we've seen that this year. I think she's shooting like 33% so far from beyond the arc. It's just going to open up the rest of her game because she does take the ball to the rim so hard and she's not a bad finisher. And like you said, she draws a lot of contact. She gets to line a lot. I could see her being a very good point guard in a starter. And I think she's like like a part of their future going forward. And I don't know if people expected that going in. It seemed like she was more of a placeholder for what they were building down the road. But I think she's like carving out a role there. I agree. I think she might have been, I think we might have looked at her as a bit of a flyer, but you're right. She came into league at like 19. So she's gotten all these reps, but she's functionally the same age as a lot of younger than a lot of players that are in the rookie years coming out of college. So you're okay. So your 19 was Melbourne as well. My 18 was Sarah Ashley Barker. Who's your 18? I'd fudge it there. Oh right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a little high on her. I'm a little too high on her. I don't blame you. I don't blame you. I feel like you made a good case. What about 17? 17. I have Gabriella Hawthas. Me too. Wow. This is a crazy mile. We're on the same year. Yeah. Yeah. I did not expect her. Like I didn't watch a lot of UCLA. like the college basketball season overlaps with the NFL. So I'm not like totally locked in there. I probably just judged her based off how she looked, but I did not expect her to be as tough as like getting into the pain and like her handles are very good. She can get her shot off, which I'm very surprised. She can get to like any spot on the floor she wants. I think she's going to be a very good player. And I think she's already one of the more reliable, efficient offensive sources of offense, which is saying a lot for a team with Skyler Diggins on it, the Camilla Carter-Osa has her moments. I've been very impressed. And she had that 20 point game I think it was against Dallas. Like, I think that was like kind of her breakout game. And I could see her replicating that. I don't think it's like, oh, she just had, she was just out of her mind one night. It was like very repeatable hoops to me. - No, for sure. I mean, she's, she's connective tissue hall of fame. You know, she's like, she's like all-time glue piece to a title contender. Like build that role play in her lab type of player. The way that she gets downhill is a slasher. Just getting to the line. She's struggling to finish a little bit at the rim, but I think that'll like, again, like Lauren Betts. Like that will slow down for her a little bit as well. And once that does, I expect her to be even more reliable. I had her actually originally higher on this list. You had to see some of the typical errors from rookies, like decision making, driving without a plan every once in a while. But the fact that she can just so consistently get into the paint, get two feet into the paint, once it slows down and she's actually like making decisions, it's gonna be awesome. Her rim runs and transition are great. Her speed actually somehow stands out even more in the W than it did in college. I was very high on her in the draft. I actually didn't mind that Chicago took her number five. Now I do think there's a play that we'll talk about later who is a couple play that was available at six of her teammate who, you know, if they might be kicking themselves a little bit just based on how good Kiki rice is. But like at the same time, if I'm Chicago and I have Gabby Hock as like I cannot be upset right now. What about you, what's 16 for you? - I have Layla the Khan. And I think that she's only played one game this season. But when she's on the court, Connecticut is just better. Like I don't know how to explain it. Like when she's on the court, she's not like the most efficient player from like a shooting perspective, but I just think she's a winning player as much as you could be a winning player with for that organization right now. - Well, they won a game when she played. So there's actually-- - That's true. - They actually won a game, yeah. - Yeah, you could, like the coach is like, oh my god, I cannot wait for it. He like wouldn't shut up about it. - Oh my god, I know it's like, it's like I can't wait to break up with all of you guys. Like, wait a minute, wait a minute. - Wait a minute. - I wonder if like that was like the team meetings. Like they just have like a-- - It's like when you're like at a party. - And you're like waiting for your actual friends to get there, but you're like hanging out with like people and you're keeping like, oh, I can't wait. Like you and dude, just like hang with the people that you have around you right now. Your friends will get there, so I go ahead. - He like wasn't so mean to Denise Amaro once she came back. She's like, oh, it doesn't matter if he don't try as much on defense. But yeah, I think she's just one of those winning players that would be easier to appreciate if she wasn't playing for this franchise right now. - Is the Rashid Mezion's Iop going to end now that he is happy that Leila look at his home? - I think so. I think so. Like that completes him. Leila look on completes him. So I actually had her at number 12, 'cause she was like, my 10 through 15. Yeah, my 10 to 15 is interchangeable. - It's all difficult, and I wasn't gonna put her in a hash. She's only played one game this year, but we saw her in rookie year and I was like, I'm just ripping it, like she's so awesome. She's one of the best point of attack defenders I've ever seen. She's amazing in transition. I think like a quarter of her points came in transition. Last year, she made us three early in the game. Is this three quarters reds falling? Oh my God. But yeah, just, I mean, the physical tools alone, the athleticism, the defense, the playmaking is growing. If we start to see some better passing even, but yeah, I was talking to somebody who follows a yearly a little bit more too. And the team that she was on was pre ranked at 14 based on the roster, and she carried them all the way to third. So I just think, I think she's a floor razor. I think you're right. I think she's one of those players too. Like the more you watch her, the more you just notice, like, that's winning play. That's winning play. That's winning play. So lovely little can. We were only 21, also, only 21. Second, I was playing all the list. All right, well, this is my official. And my number 16 is my official Pauline asked your review. Well, that's where I ended up ranking here. Obviously, everyone is kicking themselves in the Liberty Garden. A lot of teams did try to recruit her. This is the international portion too. Like we were getting, I mean, a walk here as well, but we were getting deep into the, this is where the French guard started to roll in. Her pick and roll manipulation, the steadiness, she just is never rushed by anything. And it allows her to create space and angles. She's fearless as a driver as well. It's like fun. She's way more fun than you think. She's way more fearless than you think. And she's also way worse on defense than you think she is. Like the only reason she's not higher on this list for me is just watching Carla Lake, who I'm sure we'll talk about two dribble circles around her. But yeah, I mean, she's awesome. I had her at 12. I had her even higher. Like she is my type of player, like the point guard. And the way she finishes around the rim, like the angles she makes shots from and layups from, just impressive. And like you said, she's fearless. And like there is no rim protection around, like with her. I don't know if she's ever going to get blocked in her WNBA career, like just her ability to change angles and lay shots off the glass at tough angles. It's just astonishing to me. And I think she can shoot the defensive part of it. That's a problem. But I mean, I'm writing them based off their offense for the most part here. She does, she's number three in the league and fouls committed the season. That's not surprising. Who's for her? It's not, is she? But I love watching her. Is it Cassandra Prosper? Because I've never seen a player foul out three times in a row to start a season. Pressing out of it. She is number 11, number 10 or 11 here? Oh, 10. Yeah, she's number 10 at 28. Which is impressive, because she's lost minutes recently. So it's pretty impressive. Well, I mean, number 10, number 10 is sort of like, the gap is not, like it's past year, it's 31. And Prosper is 28. So you're in the ballpark. You're definitely in the ballpark. Who's 15 for you? That was an Esomara for me. And like I said, it's holy based off the rebounding, but we're starting to see the shot selection get better and she's finishing around the rim. So I think it's definitely one that made me nervous. I definitely could have put her higher. I had her lower. I had Haka as where I have her now, and I flipped those two. OK, I got you, yeah. Haka-- oh, yeah, but it's-- I'm asking myself a question of what I'd rather have Haka as a more moral and I'm like, I don't-- I guess it depends what I need. But you at least have to think about it. Janelle Salon, at number 15, for me, every time she has a great game, I'm like, I can fix her. I can fix her shot selection. It's the only issue I have at this point. And the defense thing to get there a little bit, but-- it's just a streakiness. It's just a shot selection. But the shot making ability is star level. The three level shot making ability is absolutely star level. She is one of those players. If she cleans that up that aspect of it, like this guy's eliminated for her. She's averaging 12 points per game in 24 minutes. She's on a super deep vocalist team. She is incredibly strong. You can never get her off balance. She's going to be able to get her shot off. Whatever she wants. Probably her greatest gift and curse. Yes, yeah. On the other side, to hell with shot selection. If you could make those shots, then keep taking them. I think down the line, I think she is going to get a little bit smarter with that. You would hope so. But yeah, the streakiness is the thing that-- I ranked her a little higher, but I would have put her even higher than I put her. If she was a little more consistent, we saw that with the start to the season. And then she had those games. I think she had single digits for a couple there. And then she busted out again with another 20-point game. But even last year, we saw it in limited minutes. She was still putting up double digit points. But like I said, if you could do something at such a high level, I'd probably overrate you. Because I think it's just a big part of their gameplay where they could just throw her the ball at any time. At any point on the floor, and she could just turn around and make a jump shot. It kind of has a flat arc shot that just-- it's kind of like Kobe-esque. The arc on her shot, just a shot maker. And I just don't think you can overrate that in this league. I think, honestly, the thing for me is I think that if she did other stuff-- That's what she doesn't do other stuff. That's a good point. She just did one other-- like, she has a size to rebound. She's just one other thing. I would feel a lot better about where she's at right now. My number 14 is-- that's where I have Kiki Rice, which I honestly might be too low on her. I might be too low on her-- her first fight. This is going to be our first fight. And I'm not even going to fight back. I feel free to feed the hell out of me. Because what I watch her-- it reminds me of Sony's The Troll last year-- just that solid player and everything, just the ability-- reliable shooter, too. She had a terrible game against the Mystics and the Opener. Couldn't make a shot. Seemed nervous. She was like moving her feet. She could have been called for her couple of travels. but ever since then, yeah. I mean, she just looks solid. She looks like a four-year vet at this point. She doesn't look like a rookie. And she impacts the game in so many different ways. Like when you watch that play, like defensively, she's disruptive. Offensively, she can run the floor. I'm surprised that her finishing ability, I thought the shooting would be there, but she had a couple tough finishes the last couple of games. She's a player that could do it all. And I think that's a big reason why Toronto, I think that's a bigger reason why Toronto is as competitive as they are as the million dollar back court. Oh, dude, screw the million dollar back court. It's all about Julie Allamon and Kiki Rice in the third quarter in their last game. And that's what it's all about. Okay, I'm throwing a new rule into the mix here. One of this is allowed to try to convince the other person that she's there ranking it. I'm using mine on Kiki Rice right now. Okay. Well, we can talk about who you have ahead of her as well, but I have her at my nine spot. I just think she's that good. She's also one of those players where the more you watch the better she gets, the skill level alone is just so high. Like to actually see somebody as a rookie, be able to put defenders into a cage and the pick and roll, turn like drives into post ups and to turn around hooks. She's got just this epic combination of skill and size and strength. And one of the tightest handles I've seen for somebody who has that combination of things, bulldozer, like getting to the rim, I think she's finishing like 76%. She's second among rookies and free throw attempts. She can shift her body mid air. You just don't get that mix of strength, fluidity, control, touch, all in one person, this young. Very often, and her bag is really deep. Like the crossover is really good. She's herky jerky. She can shoot. She doesn't make mistakes. This is my only ever problem with her was like, I felt like she wasn't like bold enough for decision making, but she's never made mistakes. Like she's a incredibly low turnover player. She's averaging less than one turnover per game. Her shooting splits are 56, 45, 79. She's a good playmaker. When she's kind of like running that point for them, setting up their offense, like they just get into their offense. She doesn't get a lot of assists, but like when she's in one at the helm, like you just feel a little bit better about it. She's awesome. She should have the ball in her hands all the time. She's the future of this organization. I did my geeky race apology like two weeks ago, and I'm just doubling down on her being like, freaking awesome. You've convinced me to put her higher. Let me swap her and ask you. I'll put her out 12 for now with it. Okay. I might end up putting her higher. It sounds like you're low on her. Like even at nine, I feel like. I can't. I can go higher. I can go higher. I considered it. I had to measure it against like the Canadian aspect where I'm like, okay, like I got it. I got maybe I need to chill a little bit, but I could have did. I could talk that I thought I thought I thought about it for sure. I definitely thought about it. Can Brink is what I had at 14? I have her at 13. Okay. So we're pretty much on the same page. Pretty much the same. I need more data. That's all it is. Yeah. I just need more data. Looks amazing. You were at that Mystic's game. Yeah. I thought she was the best player on the court for some stretches. Like they had no answer for her. And when she plays like that, but that's the problem is she doesn't always play like that. She went from that game to I think she played, what did she go one for four in the next game against Connecticut, but skill said, and I don't think it, it's going to sound like I'm pitching her potential, and I don't think it's a potential thing. She can hit a three. She can handle the ball for someone in her size, which is very impressive. The shot blocking is out of this 1.5 blocks per game. And I think she's playing 17 minutes a game. Like do the math there. It's unreal. Like I'm surprised that she doesn't get more minutes, but I get that she has better players ahead of her, and she has had better players ahead of her in her spot in LA. But I would get her on the court as much as I can. I don't understand why they aren't playing her a lot more. And I thought that she could have played more down the stretch in Washington that game wouldn't have been as competitive as-- She should have finished that game. If she finished that game, it wouldn't have become a game again. No. I don't know. Maybe Lynn Roberts isn't ready to change the line up yet. And I just feel like in the games where she is being consistent and she is showing something, you got to let her ride those out, especially because Washington's front court is crazy good. And you need the rim protection. But yeah, like functionally for her, she's played 46 games, even though she's in year three. So there's still a lot of runaway. The rebounding is the one concern I would have. That's the one part of her game where you would expect it to be a lot better, a lot of, like, four rebound games. I think once she shores that up, as she gets better on the defensive boards and can end defensive possessions rather than just swatting shots, then I think she could become that defensive player of the year candidate year and year out. Yeah, I mean, she probably got to try to block less shots. Like that's what ends up being her position. It's also why she's like a fouling machine as well. But she's one of those players that-- I mean, man, it's so hard with her. She could be at 20 in two months. She could be at, like, eight. It's just hard to say. All right, 12 you had, LeCan. I had LeCan. You now have Kiki Rice. You did that last year. 11 I have AZFUD. That's where I have her. Oh, OK, great. All right, just seeing what she's done in the last few games, back to back 20 point games, she'd finally started. Shooting is out of control. Crazy. No dribbles in any of her mix in that third corner against the Liberty, by the way, very Clay Thompson coated. Yes, yes. But I think her handles have been better than advertised. Like, she's had a couple of shots she's created on her own, which, like, that wasn't supposed to be her game based on, like, her naysayers. But I think we've seen-- she's been the player that we thought she would be. And she was the number one pick. And I-- like, I wouldn't have drafted her number one there. But I think she was a worthy selection. I don't think it was, like, crazy they picked her. And she's living up to that draft slot so far. Yeah, I absolutely agree. The movement off the ball, the give-and-go relocates. It's just a thing of beauty. And I think-- And the cutting, too. The cutting, all of the off-all movement with her, the way that Paige and Jess chef, they almost, like, can't be divorced from the AZ conversation at all, because they're always looking for her. And I also think Jose realized, like, oh, we don't really have a lot of good point of attack defenders. So I might as well do the-- like, use the one that has, like, the most lateral quickness and size. And that's kind of a busy fun in this situation. But yeah, just really excited to see what she can be, eventually, as well, but already. Like, definitely up there in the rookie of the year race, all WNBA, rookie, for sure, all those things. Showing why she was the number one pick. 1.9 made 3s per game. She's just awesome. All right, let's take a quick break. And we'll do our top 10. All right, we're back. Number 10. Who's your number 10? This is where I had Janelle Salon. But I'm making the decision. I'm putting Kiki right there. I'm raising her in other two spots. We just keep-- oh, I love it. I love it. She's fine. I wonder where you got missed explainers coming up. You'll probably be able to get to-- She might end up at 8. She might end up at 8. All right, I love that. I love that. Where'd you have Carla? I have her at 9. You have a 9. OK, so we're very close. She could go higher or lower, because we just haven't seen her scouted as a number 1 option yet. Although, I will say the one thing that you would do is go wonder on her picket roles, and she's shooting 41% from 3 this year. So my question becomes, what are you even going to do? And I watched some of these fire games. And I'm like, is Pauline asked you really that bad of a defender, or is it just Carla late being this fast? And then, well, yesterday, I'm like, is Caitlyn Clark really that bad of a defender, or is it Carla late being that fast? And Alex Saraba coming up with the perfect game plan. But yeah, man, she's just been awesome. She's generating like 20 points a game just out of picket roles. That's more than anyone else in the league. That's more than Olivia Miles. It's more than Caitlyn Clark. It's more than Paige Beckers. It's just a perfect meld of like system skill and just spamming over and over again. And she's just fearless. Like, I just usually like, you project her future. And I'm like, I just look at her. I'm like, you're going to topple a giant in the playoffs. Shit, I mean, with the way Portland's playing it, I was going to say in the next five years, it could be this year. Yeah. She's just so awesome as a downhill driver. Her reads out of the picket role, especially last game. I was already impressed with it, just because it's not something that I saw as like a major strength. If anything, it was like something that she probably needed to do more. Handling the traps, hitting, hitting bigs on switches, things like that. She's just been awesome. Yeah, no matter what they try to do in that fire fever game, the second one, she had an answer for it. And even like, there were times when Caitlyn was able to stay in front of her, but she would just go through her chest. She had one bucket early in the game, where she just like hit Caitlyn in the chest and Caitlyn went back fly like three feet. And she just finished it easily. She has to pull up game. She could pull up even if you sag off her a little bit. We saw the three, she hit the ISO three, she hit the seal, the Liberty game last week. Sarama obviously has faith in her to close out games because he called that ISO for her. And she's just hard-knows in the way they play defense, the aggressive way they play defense 94 feet. She holds up. She doesn't look like she gets tired at the end of games. If anything, she gets better at the end of games. Honestly. she might be a little too low for me. It's gonna be her and Kiki just climbing up the ranks. Honestly, the only reason she's not higher is one thing I wanted to be mindful of and making this list and it'll probably be a little bit more relevant in the top 10 is like I don't want to overly punish players for having experience in this league and being the number one option. Like that's one of those things where with Carla, we've just started to see it. Like the thing that she did that she did to Caitlyn Clark yesterday is something that will not happen to her for another two years. You know what I mean? Like there's just things like it's just part of the sort of like heroes journey of being an athlete. Carla is very much in the beginning of it. Much like somebody like Kiki who like you know I would put her higher. She just continues to do this as like after you see like how you're defending the playoffs after you become like the focal point of the point of attack like things like that. So yeah I could not be mad with her going higher though. All right who's next for you? All right let's get into this. I got Angel Reese. A number eight. Okay. Where did you have Angel? I have her at number eight. Okay. Yeah. My it's such a weird conversation with her just like Caitlyn like you're gonna be you're gonna piss somebody off no matter if you say something nice. I heard you took that deep breath. Yeah. Yeah that's why it's rough talking about either of those players but I mean just an elite rebound maybe the one of the best rebounders in the history of basketball like no caveat there like the any level of basketball you want to name. I think once she gets better awareness of her game especially on the offensive end she could be just like a superstar role player if that's even a thing I know that's kind of contradictory but I just don't I don't think she gets enough credit for how dynamic her skill set is just because she struggles to put the ball in the basket like the the handles and her her first step. You're not seeing it as much in Atlanta this year I would say but like in Chicago they were able to just throw her the ball at the top of the key and she could just take on a big and isolate. It was Shakira Austin Esk like the ability to put the ball on the ground. I think there is something to her trying to fit in in the system that I know Atlanta plays a five out and she's spending more time on the perimeter than she did in Chicago at LSU. It's going to take some time to get acclimated to it. I think that's what we're seeing. I think the shooting the shooting percentages are indicative of that the turnover numbers are indicative of that. I do think the turnovers have gotten better over the last couple of games but if she gets better awareness of her game and doesn't just try to run into a brick wall on these post-ups I think the numbers are going to go up and we've seen that like throughout the first two years she started off her offensive efficiency was in the toilet for like the first month or so and then she just you know she figured it out and started playing smart and started taking smarter shots. I think we're going to see that in Atlanta. I think it's going to take some time but the rebounding and the defense especially on the ball. I don't think she's much of a rim protector but she's just disruptive on the defensive end and the way she runs the court. She's a special player and I think it takes it's going to take some time for her to realize like what she does best and really hone in on that on the offensive end. Yeah no I actually I feel like I won't even add more not because I don't want to get clipped in but clipped as well but because I pretty much have the exact same thoughts. The only thing I would add is it's with Atlanta it's not only her being on the perimeter more it's also her being on the perimeter without necessarily having the ball in her hands at least with a Chicago she was more of an initiator as well. With Atlanta she's not going to be the person like running plays right so I think some of like the low light clips that you've seen are probably a result of that too. That said I do think the finishing at this point just needs to improve. She needs to like kind of breathe I think sometimes and like I'm kind of curious what happens when Bri Jones comes back like maybe that stabilize his things a little bit as well and that's kind of why you have the Jordan Canada conversation too it's like for a team that wants to shoot as much like how many non-shooters do they really want out on the floor at the same time and do they want to like put the ball in Angel's hands as a creator and just have her be like an ought like a perpetual roving dribble handoff thread like that's kind of what I envision when she got traded there so to see her in sort of like a more stationary role is just I don't know it's it's not the it's not the best utilization of angelry's in my opinion nobody I mean you get it just because they had such a good thing going last year it that's why it was like such an awkward fit like it's a no-brainer trade to me although I don't know if it how well it's gonna age but like Atlanta just how they play it it's not surprising that there it's been an awkward fit so far as how I would put it and I think it's gonna take time and I think it's but yeah I can see her if in any other system I think she would look better on the offensive end right now or on another team where she could be like kind of like an elisa Thomas type hub playmaking hub where she's doing the D.H.O.s and all that she is a good passer though and I think that's gonna you know carry her through even if she can't put the ball in the basket consistently right now well that's why I think it's such an overiner you have a good playmaker who can be your hub and you have shooters around her that are also better coming like Alicia Gray in particular way better coming off of handoffs and being like her own picket role creator so and maybe they will like I wouldn't be surprised if that's just what the future looks like there for them eventually number one number seven I already feel like she's too low but at this point you just start to get nervous because like at seven like after this one you kind of get into like the the category of like I would go to war with you in a playoff series and just feel really good about it every single time and you don't like all these players are so great Dominic Malanga is number seven for me she's had two 21 point games this season and she's been out with a concussion ever since if this was a draft I would certainly take her higher and if she keeps up what she's doing she's certainly gonna leap frog some other players in this area and I think also honestly I'm probably undervaluing her just simply because she's a big like I think maybe she should be a little bit higher on this list for me but just I mean like what can you say right like great hands great screener fluid frickin roll thread we're seeing the jumper come along I would love to see her go to the room a little bit more I think sometimes she's shot she's a way and like she kind of gets a little bit sped up sometimes I feel her if you notice her transition she's like kind of struggling transition this year and I have a theory for it I think that she's chasing that first dunk and I think she's in her head a little bit 100% yeah I'm gonna use my opportunity to argue that she should be okay I have her at four okay and like you mentioned the go-to-war with them in the playoffs like she had moments against the Asian last year against Asia Wilson like she was holding her own in spurts and she was a 19 year old which is I think is another thing that we have to account for is that she is going to improve rapidly like I don't I if we this was a draft I would pick her number one like I think her upside is just tremendous I think she is gonna get that dunk eventually and I think it's gonna eventually become a thing that's like not so surprising when she does it like it's gonna be a recurring thing she's just not I don't think she's very she's not as confident as she should be based on how prodigious her skill set is like there's nothing on the floor that she can't do and I think that three-point shot is gonna come along and once it does like I'm not gonna compare to Wembee but I think it's a situation where it's like what do you do with this player like how do you defend her if you don't have Asia Wilson like how do you handle this player I mean you could compare to Wembee if you wanted to I mean Wembee is compared to Wembee I believe so I think that's okay then I'm gonna if if he's done it then it's good enough I think it's I mean I think it's fair game I mean six six with that wingspan you just you can't teach the frame you simply you can and you're right you're actually like the confidence aspect of it for her if it catches up then it's kind of over um so here's the thing I'll I will say the two mystics aren't right after her for me so if you do want to try to convince me then you're it's gonna be a bit of an own goal I have Kiki at seven okay and my okay I I love Kiki I think she's just a great player I she plays so hard I think she has untapped potential in the same way Belonga does where she has just like one leg it turn around jumper that it looks good and it goes down sometimes but it doesn't go down consistently enough but once it starts falling it's gonna be an unguardable shot and she's hitting the three this year she's taking it a little bit more with confidence uh she can handle the ball the rim protection's not there and the rebounding I know she puts up numbers but it's very inconsistent she does not but she does not like to box out from what I've watched that's why they give up so many offensive rebounds and then the inconsistent finishing see misses so many bunnies around the rim which like kudos to her for getting into position like I think she's very good at cutting to the cutting off picking rolls diving to the rim she's good on the post up but if she just finished more consistently and she does have she can finish with either hand at a high level it's just the consistency isn't there it once it's there I mean all NBA tight talent I just think we're not there yet at the end of the year we could be there though I mean she's shooting 74% of the rem this season and yeah and I guess you're saying it could be 80 it could be 85 yeah sure hey I mean look he keeps it five for me and I consider it too high I considered putting her at four I just think like with her her versus Sonya bigs are just so important yeah that's that's ultimately where I fell because they're incredibly close but I just look at the the motor also as much as the the the rim protection isn't there the perimeter defense is it is yeah she's holding opponents to like 29% shooting I just don't know how much better you can ask for somebody from what she's good at I that's why the Lauren beds pairing probably makes sense long-term but she's just such a dynamic defender up in the perimeter and is the game-changes you kind of need that like you need somebody who can be big and hedge but also switch and then like but but like simultaneous he can be the person to defend your fore as well it's just like the rotation at the rim protection aspect of it isn't there but it's kind of like O.F. I'm it's like okay well she has done along us I'm not so worried about it it's kind of how I feel about Kiki like she's just I don't know I just like like she's awesome actually like I for me it's like with the things that she's able to do on the offensive end like at the four position like this is the hardest position in the WNBA and she is such a dynamic score she finishes if you're weaker than her she goes through it but you're smaller than her she overpowers you she's fearless she can go toe to toe with like any different kind of magic she's just a nightmare to have to guard she's so competitive which I think is one of her more underrated trace just because she is so skilled it's easy to overlook it and to your point like comparing her to Sonia which is very hard to do but it's Sonia is by the way I have Sonia at number five and honestly I would probably put her at six now that I'm thinking about it I would put my number six at number five but when Sonia has a quiet night because like the Mystics coaching staff isn't doing a good enough job getting her the ball which happens far too often I've seen too many first quarters where she doesn't even get a shot off recently Kiki if she has like an off night or quiet night she's still getting 12 points just by talent just by being around the rim and her competitiveness and all that and I don't think Sonia has that I just think Sonia's best game is just like she could put a team on her back and ways that I don't think he can at this point in her career like you saw it in the fever game they finally put the ball in her hand which like that's my I'm getting a lot off my chest right now with Sydney Johnson who I think it's a good coach in some respects but there's just some points of frustration with me and his inability to get Sonia the ball is at the top of the list but in that Indiana game to overtime game this was when Georgia was still on the minutes restriction I think he was starting to his his love affair with Rory Harmon I think was fading who by the way I can't believe she was getting lunchtime minutes because like I she's a great play like she tries hard but she's five six and can't shoot the ball and can't pass but they finally put the ball in Sonia's hand and just we're giving her picking roles and she was just dominating they had no answer for it and if they did that more I think I'd probably be higher on her right now with this list but it's just easy to kind of take her out of the game if you just top block her yeah and they run those off ball screens she just she disappears that's a lot of guards yeah it's a tough I you know you kind of hope that the new rules would change some of that for her I have fun Sonia staff for you though she defended more actions as a primary defender than anyone else in the league and she's holding opponents to 25% shooting from the field while she does it I mean she that player you described when you were reeling off all those stats with Kiki Rice like that just reminding me of Sonia in her first year and I think she's just been she's gotten a little bit better at everything she did on the court last year like I think she's a competitive defender she's obviously the stats are good she's a good defender she's a great shooter even though the three-point shot hasn't been there but like inside the arc this year I think she was shooting like 80% at one point and she might still be there it'll come which is wild like she could 50 40 90 at some point in her career oh 100% I think that's coming to the next few years and like she's not taking the easiest shots inside the arc like she does like a lot of these like one-legged shots after like a little pivot she gets to the rim she can finish when the three-point shot is falling and she's a great off-ball mover she just does everything so well you just she's a little passive at times which like that's just I think that's what makes her a good player and sometimes it hurts her too she's always been a good teammate right and she's gone from like third-fourth option to like number one primary creator as well so like there's there's that learning curve a little bit there for her to all right number four for me is Olivia Miles I had her at six but I'm changing it right now like I I have her at five and I've dom it for okay so you're going Kekeke what where are you at what like yeah so Keke 7th Keke 7th Sonia 6th Olivia Miles 5th dom 4th okay all right cool all right all all right why did she in your mind because the more I thought about Sonia and the more I thought about Olivia Miles like I'd rather have Olivia Miles just because she does have the ball in her hands and her ability to control the basketball game is otherworldly at this point in her career like she might be the best pick and roll player in the league right now it is amazing to watch statistically she is right now absolutely and the I test like is right there like you talk about manipulating angles and defenders and she can get any pass off and the way she gets to the rim off of it like I've never seen a young player like that get to the rim so confidently where it's not even just like finishing it's just like at one point she's running the ball screen at the top of the the key and then at the next moment she's at the rim just like she glides there yes insane and I don't think she's like the most athletic most the fastest player it's just basketball IQ and knowing angles and knowing how to get to the rim she's already one of my favorite players to watch in a league where there are so many players that are fun to watch yeah she the funniest thing about her is she's always been a generational passer and that's why I have her here I just think she's gonna run a title level offense probably sooner than we think and she entered the league and decided to be good at everything that made you worry about her I think the athleticism is showing itself more she also had the ACL tear like two years ago so there's like the slow build up from that but the difference is average which is what you want from her the shot selection is way better which is great because she's shooting like 14% from 30 that's like the only early yellow flag there once opponents are going under and challenging her to shoot that what happens to the pick and roll game the off-ball activities are shoot I don't think I saw her cut once off the ball like it in TCU if I'm if I'm knee a live if I'm Mark Campbell watching her right now I'm crying scream at the right now like what the hell like you just you really just did whatever you wanted in college for the last year there to get to the show or even show we've like okay so this is a program and nobody's bigger than the program she's like okay but okay well that's their fault for not being share or you that's true I mean everybody should try to be show or even when they if they can if they can which Sydney Johnson would do that who's who's number three for you I have a Leah Boston me too do you have Caitlin at two we'll get to Caitlin when we get to Caitlin I wanted to talk about them in tandem some suspense I'm okay well okay well you do you have Caitlin number two I do okay all right and you can talk about them in conjunction if you'd like we don't need to do that we can wait we can wait for the Caitlin discussion but Alia like I'm trying to find like a real fault in her game like a nit to pick and I really can't find one and I think the only reason I don't have her higher is like and maybe this is just me and I'm wrong about this but I don't think she's a player that you could just throw the ball to and crunch time and say go get me a bucket I think she needs a little more support than that I think that that part of her game is coming along but other than that like the way she passes off on the move as a roller the way she the how tough she is how competitive she is around the rim on both sides of the ball a selfless teammate I would say just in the threes coming along she's shooting more threes this year yeah like the only reason she's not higher is because Caitlin Clark and Paige Becker is existing they are generational talents but I think she's a generational talent too and I think she's just gonna get better and better as the years go on because I do think she has the talent to become that player you can throw the ball to you and she'll get a bucket I just don't think we've seen it consistently enough and that's like I'm picking knits right now well yeah it's it's it's interesting with her and number three for me with her is a bit of a hedge because this season she hasn't been the third best player but I also think if you project her out and even even like give her a second to put all this stuff together she could be the number one player on this list very soon she's that good and I think the thing for her is that a lot of different pieces have are that are part of her game have not fully come together for her at one time this season yet but she's shooting 38% from three on like around I think three attempts per game that's what Steph White kind of wanted her at the motor has improved the speed has improved the playmaking has always been there but with the reps it just continues to get better we know what the post-op game is we know how she is with both hands we know the strength the the the bow bow bow bully ball she's able to play the evolution in her development is very clear she's handling the ball in transition at times she is bridging the gap between the the the traditional post player and the future of the game and pigs are important like and she she has it she has a physicality she has a fluid she has a movement she could very well be the future of this league like two weeks she could be number one like not two weeks but like she could absolutely be that place could be an MVP candidate it's just that I'm we're just like it's early in the season we're still sort of like laying in weight and she was hurt like she came into - Exactly, yes. - The season hurt has done. - She missed the game. - She got hurt and unrivaled. For me, it's the consistency. Her A-game is amazing. It's all NBA, WNBA stuff. But there are those games when she has eight points. She still has those nights a little too often. And I do think one thing that's underrated, and maybe Caitlyn gets too much credit for this, 'cause Caitlyn is such an amazing passer, and she finds Alia with these great angles. But Alia's ability to make herself available, I think is very underrated. Yes, she gets spoon-feed buckets at times, but she's doing the work to get into position to be spoon-fed, if that makes sense. - Oh, yeah, yeah, completely. - Yeah, it's not like she's like, Caitlyn just finding her on the break. Like, she's pinning her defender. She's, you know, diving off a picking roll. Once she gets that consistency down low, which obviously she has, like, she has post moves. She can score on the post, like you said, it's just those nights when she scores eight points. That's like, the only thing holding me back from putting her at number two. - I honestly feel like a lot of those nights where she scores eight points, it's because of how the defense is playing her, or it's because of like how the offense is being run. - Yeah, that's fair. - Well, I think if she consistently got the ball in her hands, and like, was, you know, and it's like healthy, I think we're probably, like, having a different conversation about her consistency. But that's also the give and take with bigs too. Like, bigs are a little bit more, I mean, anybody who's like, having in the picking roll with the two man actions is just going to be a little bit more at the mercy of what the defense is willing to afford you. But she's one of those players that can, like, work around those things. You can put her in the short roll, and she can dump it off if you double her. She can find three point straighter, and we'll get into this. But one of the fever's problems this season, it's been like, they're just not shooting well yet. - No. - And, you know, you probably have a little bit, a few more assists as well, Caitlin, have a few more assists too, if that was the case. All right, so you would Katelyn number two, which means pagebackers, you have number one. I'm assuming. You created me like, I'm just. - I'd be like, no, I left her off the list. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I have Alicia Flores in number one, actually. (laughing) - And, you know what, and valid. And that's valid. We'll laugh for all perspectives here. All right, give me your Katelyn number two case, or your Katelyn versus page sort of take. - All right, the reason why I was pagein, this was a tough decision. I think page is more consistent. I think we, as we have seen recently, like, Katelyn is just more prone to having those stinkers. Like, when her shot's not falling, she's turning the ball over, she's complaining to the refs. We don't really see that with page. I know she had a bad game a couple of weeks ago. I think she had like, she went like one for nine or something in the loss. But, the consistency with page is just out of this world. Her ability to get to her spots and make shots over defenders, even if she's well defended. Like, there's just, when she's on, there's no defending her. Like, it doesn't matter if you have a hand in her face, and when she's shooting threes, and she's aggressive, like, there's nothing you can do on defense. And I think she's a passer. I think she competes on defense. I think she has an edge on the defensive end, compared to Katelyn at this point. Maybe that's because she's not getting attacked in high shows every night. But, I think her all around game is just better. But, Katelyn's A game is unlike anything we've ever seen. Like, nobody impacts the game. 94 feet, quite like she does. When her three is on, I mean, there's nothing you can do. I always think it's disingenuous when people compare the numbers and efficiency of her teammates to her. Because a lot of that is because of the way teams defend her. And I think like, that's what people lose sight of. I don't think they're actually like trying to present objective analysis on her. Some of people have an axe to grind against Katelyn, which is totally understandable. Because I don't think she's the most likable player when she's complaining to refs and flopping all over the court. But, that has to be taken to account. Even on the defensive end, like, the defensive piece of this, the way the fever play sets her up for these lowlights. Like, they're gonna put her, they switch everything so you can target her with matchups. They don't really help off the ball 'cause they don't want to give up threes. So, there's gonna be a lot of one on ones. And there's gonna be times when she gives up the, gives up buckets, especially when she's going up against players, like Carla Leidt or she's going up against Veronica Burton. Like, those are, ask Courtney Williams how hard it is to guard Veronica Burton, one on one. Courtney Williams never touched the ball in that unrivaled one on one tournament when they played. But then you look at the stats and they give up the fewest three-point attempts in the league. They give up the lowest assist percentage in the league. Like, I think the scheme is kind of working. Caitlyn is just like, gets the short end of that stick because she's the mark on defense. But even when you watch her lowlights, she's giving up like contested mid-range shots. They're just dropping, which that's the worst shot in basketball. So, like, even her defensive issues, like, she's not a good defender by any means. I don't think she's a terrible defender. I think she's just a bad defender. Who teams are picking on. But even that, like, I don't think it's as big of a deal as people make it out to be. Like, even the game against the fire where it was like very evident they were attacking her, I think she gave up like four shots, four made shots in those ISO situations. So, it's like eight points. She probably gives up 10 points of game because she can't guard defenders, guard ball handlers, one on one. I don't think it's that big of a deal. And then you factor in the offense. And she is an offensive force that, like, even when she's not playing well, even when the shot's not falling, it makes everything easier for her teammates. So, like, she could very easily be number one here. I just think consistency is the only thing that's keeping her back from that. Yeah, I think. So, I'm sticking with Caitlyn at number one. I thought about it. - Which idea? I thought about it for a lot of the same reasons that you had. She is the most exciting and electric player. She is also the most volatile. She will simultaneously, like, fry and excite your nervous system when you watch her play. Like, it is a roller coaster. It is an experience every single time. And it can. The highs are high, the lows can feel really, really low. And then, with Paige, you had this player who's incredibly consistent, who is isolating more, who is, like, starting to put together the basketball IQ supercomputer aspect of it with, like, the ISO ball in his beautiful to watch. It's, like, it's her putting herself in positions where she's, like, "Oh, I have the wall on my hands. "I'm gonna all dribble myself to the place "where it is going to hurt them the most to let me isolate." Like, she is so smart that way. So, it's, like, absolutely nothing against Paige. I absolutely considered it, even without. Even with this statistical disparity because she's just, like, a fucking, like, watch every possession all-star. Like, you just have. Like, it's the stuff that she does off the ball. It's a way that she's looking for AZ all the time. It's the screening. It's the relocates. It's just, there are, like, so many things of Paige can do on a court that are loud and subtle, that are both incredible. But the thing to me with Caitlyn is that, like, she's just better than everyone else. And she's at her best. Like, she just is, even, like, we are talking about with her, it is, like, a five-alarm fire that Caitlyn Clark is having a tough start to the season. And she is averaging 22 and 1/2 points, 8 1/2 assists. And the three-point shooting is back. She's shooting 35% from the three-point line. 41% from the field. You'd like to see that go up. Sure, whatever. 97% from the three-throw line. Getting to the line more than ever. She has made such clear improvements as a finisher at the rim, which is going to open up that pick and roll game a lot more. And I think that what this is for her is. It's back to that. It's that moment in the hero's journey. The pace of expectation and the defense catching up to her has accelerated to her for her at a level at which it doesn't exist for other players yet. And I'd like that you bring up. She's not the worst defender in the league. But she's being attacked, like, she's the worst defender in the league because it's worthwhile to do that because it takes her out of the game. And that, beyond the numbers, we'll get into the fever issues of it. Like, I don't like that that's a way they're going with it. But right now, for Caitlin, like, I just think, I feel kind of similar to how I do with Boston from a developmental standpoint. The finishing has improved. Logo three is there and it's back. The playmaking is top three in the world. All of that should add up to the best young player in the world. We just haven't seen it put together consistently early this season. But this is Caitlin Clark. Like, I just believe in her. Beyond even, like, the numbers and like, this has improved, that has improved. I haven't even the competitive fire. I've seen this team up against a wall before. I've seen them, oh, when eight to start a season. I've seen her in college do this. Like, there's just this sort of like gut it factor thing with her where I'm like, she's going to figure it out. 100%. They're going to figure it out, honestly, frankly. Like, that's kind of where I'm at with it. Like, she's still leading the league and assist while we're having this conversation. And I get like, she's a discourse hurricane. Like, I get that aspect of it, but-- And I feel like the context of, is there a player that has a harder job in the league? Like, when you consider what she does on defense, because of their scheme, because they switch, and they put her on an island. So she's like, exerting so much energy on the defensive end. And then you look at how she gets defend at 94 feet, getting pressured constantly, the game plans always to be physical with her. I think that has to be factored into the equation even when like you consider the turnover numbers Which I think are completely overblown like you look at assist leaders throughout the history of basketball They are always high turnover players. They're they're historically high. I think there's there's definitely She could put a little less mustard on the hot I all say that as a big Keaton Clark stand There's a moment where it's like I did Of course, but then you kind of tamper down the playmaking aspect I think there's good the good outweighs the back. I agree. I do I agree that when you watch like a whole fever game You understand how like in the context of it. It's It all is even it's fine Right and there I think 110 offensive rating when she's on the floor like even when you factor in the turnovers It's just she's a one person offense. It's it's amazing to watch and when she's on her game Like you said, there's nothing you could do about it. Yeah, there's just nothing you could do about it Yeah, I wanted to talk about sort of like what I feel like are like the 10 biggest problems with the fever And I do feel like the way that even if it nets out to a good defense the way that they're putting Keaton Clark on an island is a huge problem Because of the foul trouble that he creates because then you're taking her out of the game Because of the energy that she has to exert to your point on on top of the fact that she's going to be obviously Exerting a lot of energy on the offensive end as well. Um, I Think they just need to get a lot more conservative. I will say I will say it just just one thing on that though like The fire the way that they attack her Teams like the fire can do that teams like in gold state that are like really well coach will be able to do that They this is a kind of late thing, too Like he's like he let me it okay defender if she's going up against someone who like uses her strength or their size to score against speed though Against speed if you put her on an island and you switch everything It's gonna be a problem like I would say in a car the late situation Just go under the screen and live with it Like whatever you give up there is just like not worth the cost of what doing that to Caitlin does to you and what it does to like What it does to your overall team and the way that the offense and the defense function together? They could just play more conservative. I'll like they're running these switches and they're trying to send all this crazy help And it's like do you have more buildings this year the tasha Howard's not in this building anymore I mean he's a high ins Allen his not like she doesn't have this like she's doing her best and she's probably the one that's there Like the most out of the rotation binks are probably like probably like their most reliable Rotation big, but that's another problem. They're front court sucks Outside of Alia Boston like right now like more buildings that tough start to the year. I think that is changeable I'm I'm stopped. I'm done doing the list by the way like this is just now Rattling off problems because I can't stick to one like because they're all interconnected right like With Moe. I'm like, okay, well bigs always take a while to adjust to playing with Caitlin And we saw the chemistry team you'll say. I'm not like too too worried about that I just think that like Look the way that we're talking about when we look buildings right now is probably the way that we talked about in a tasha I would five games into the season really I've also Boston five games into there First five games together as well. So like you you give that one time but overall like their front court depth is not very great They don't really have the personnel to be trying to play like these incredibly aggressive schemes like that You're already starting from behind you like because your back court me is Kelsey Mitchell who they're doing the exact same thing too at the same like they're The exact coverage is using on Caitlin Clark. They're doing a Kelsey Mitchell at the same time. So it's like Like at a certain point you just got to accept the personnel that you have Yeah, I think that's the main the the point you brought up with like how much pressure you're putting on Caitlin That has to factor into the equation like I know Stephanie white I'm not gonna question her exes and knows. I think she's a very good coach especially on the defensive end But I don't think it's worth it for a league average defense Which is what they are right now like why are we selling out and kind of putting our star player in a terrible situation and putting so much on her plate defensively Just for just to be the seventh best defensive team in the league And I do think a lot of this is recently biased because they went against two teams that have the ability to attack Their weakness in that tack Caitlin Clark on an island like you're not gonna go against Carla late every night you're not gonna go against Veronica burden every night and When those tough mid-range shots aren't followed like burden was making it Incredibly difficult shots like I saw someone put a cut up on Twitter of like The Valkyries hunting Caitlin Clark and she was getting scored on but they were like fade away contested jumpers in the paint and like I think Stephanie white would live with that. I think that's why they designed the defense. So you're not getting Drive and kick opportunities from three. Mm-hmm, but I think that's the part of the calculus that maybe she didn't consider is like Oh, we're putting our best off the player too It's Leo's shot. It's two feet in the paint shot. It's like I think as much as yes, it was look like tough shots Veronica burden for at this point for yeah, it's not tougher. It's not like all of these comments like two feet in the paint You're gonna feel good about it. Yeah But I agree like just play more conservatively on defense, and I think you solve a lot of issues You keep Caitlin energized, which I thought was a point of emphasis for them coming into the season It just hasn't seemed like it right. Yeah, that's the other thing too. It's like you're you're monitoring her load at this level Like as much as I think this is definitely a moment of truth for Caitlin. Look, she's attacked more in synergy than any other player in the league like I do think she has to improve for defense um And she's giving up a ton when she's attacked too like the numbers do not are not friendly when it comes to Caitlin Clark's defense So yeah, she has to figure that out But I think this is a moment of truth for Stephanie white too like do you want to be Rick Carla with Luca Dontridge or do you want to be Rick Carla with tie haliburton because one of those situations exploded in your face And the other one went to game seven of the of the finals And it's very similar. It's a very similar attempt of like turning Basket like turning defense into offense with the with the self-proclaimed best transition player in the league surrounding her with like plus defenders and then making up for their offense with the fact that she is just such a good um like Set up Person That's also kind of been like initially like some of the players like just aren't hitting shots. No Like that was I think it took them till like the second quarter to hit their first three years They went start like o for nine like that was they didn't score in the first half I know they gave up like 50 points But there are two sides of the floor like I don't think defense was the only problem I do I will say this I think Stephanie white may have found something at the end of that game I don't know if they're gonna do this going forward But they started trapping the pick and rolls when they were trying to get those switches like Kelsey Mitchell and Caitlin were trapping late and it seemed to give her some issues Maybe they'll go with that down the road or maybe they'll get more conservative But they have to do something different. They can't allow Caitlin to live like that on the defensive end No, they can't um, it's just not it's not sustainable. It's not just a sustainable thing to do your to your best player That's also running your offense like it just it can't beat that um Anything else you wanted to say about the fever or Caitlin before um I let you get out of here uh No, I think let me cover it at all. Yeah I just say I just like I I'm just looking forward to this game against a dream Like not only obviously at the first angel Caitlin matchup since she's been with Atlanta, but like You have a great front court. That's very physical going up against a front court that we've themed to be thin Up into this point. It's kind of like one of those big like liable us and like can sheep them together a huge game Moments There's everything coming out of this fever game as far as like Discourse tactical stuff goes um, I think we just got we're going to reach a great Jordan, Canada, Tina, palpau Just wait and they're like oh are we are they gonna give up those switches as easily to us too like that's gonna be fun If I see like 10 Ryan Howard isolations on Caitlin. I'm gonna lose my mind. Oh, it's also always like the other side of it It's always it's always fun when Ryan Howard is defending Caitlin as well. Yes. Yes Like she gets up for those games for sure um, I mean they Actually, I was gonna I was gonna take it back. She gets up for any of those games But Ryan Howard is not Ryan Howard tries harder against uh against high level offensive players She does against like a page type as well um Just a thing about Ryan Howard um I'm very excited for that game I think it's gonna be very interesting um And I don't know if we're gonna do like a post game if it's if it's like a good enough game We'll probably go after but we'll definitely preview it in more depth. It's gonna be a good game I think it's gonna come down to the wire I think Indiana's gonna get out to a big lead and Atlanta's gonna come back It's gonna follow the script of every dream game this year. Have the dream played a non-exciting game Outside of the Portland one. No, they they only give up big leads and then get them back or vice versa That's yeah, all the Atlanta dream do um, but as we talked about they have some of their own issues too So it's gonna be I like it's just so we're early in the season as well It's not even even June yet. Yeah, it's not even June It will be when when people listen to this, but it's not as we're talking right now. No, we we we froze time We did freeze time. Oh, I forgot about this It's made there honestly if there was a day that you would want a freeze time for like I think universally speaking May 31st is up there like it's not too hot in the places that are too hot It's like beautiful in the places that get snow It's in my top 25 we can do that ranking next time. We should top 25 best days of the year That's right. There's I'm sure somebody's ranked that or like there's we got to like there's a hotest take out there for sure Out honestly go probably a little earlier in May like maybe May 21st like May 21st really good day Overrated in my opinion you overrated wow. Yeah, wow doesn't show up in the playoffs It's more of a game for than a game seven. All right. Steve, thank you so much for hopping on. This was so fun. I enjoyed talking all these young players with you. I hope that this was cathartic on some level. It was. I got my Sydney Johnson, my issues off my chest. I got to hype up Alicia Flores, which is the only reason I came on here. I'm actually sponsored by her. I'm very agent. Beautiful. I mean, look, that's going to be a very lucrative career for you because she's definitely going to get paid at some point. Big fan. I've been enjoying that experience as well. Thank you, Steve. I appreciate you. Thank you to Ben Cruz for producing. Thank you all for listening and we will be back later this week. [BLANK_AUDIO]