Rank and Rent: $1000 a Month From Simple Local Websites

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You're building real connections with buyers from collectibles to cookies, from resale treasures to vintage fashion. People just like you are building real audiences in real businesses on what not. And for a limited time, what not will match your first $150 sold in the first month? Visit whatnot.com/sell to start selling. That's WHATNOT.com/sell. Whatnot.com/sell. Here's an oldie but a goodie from the archives from the side hustle show greatest hits collection. Plus stick around at the end for the time travel segment where we catch up in real time with what Luke is up to today. What's up? What's up Nick? Looper here. Welcome to the side hustle show because building assets is what frees your future. Super unique side hustle to share today. Luke Vandervere calls it his rank and rent business. How it works is you pick a local service niche without a ton of competition. Build a generic sounding website targeting that keyword like window washing, livermore, example. And when you get it ranking well in Google, the site starts to generate a healthy volume of leads. You find a qualified service provider to partner with to fulfill the work. Then that service provider pays you a flat monthly rent for the leads that your website is generating. This is kind of similar to the drop servicing model that Anthony and Janilka Hartzog covered a couple months ago. But is potentially more scalable because you really don't have to worry about the hiring and labor side of the business and then you can rinse and repeat in different geographic areas or even across different niches a lot faster. For Luke, it took six months to leave the day job and 12 months to reach six figures. But stick around in this one to learn the niche selection of keyword research process, how to price the service and how to find qualified quote tenants for your digital rental properties. Notes and links for this one are at side hustle nation.com/rank and rent. Ready? Let's do it. There's actually a lot of research that goes into it and it's trying to identify profitable niche and really I try to stay anywhere in the US. You can do this anywhere in the world. I'm here so I try to focus here. But a lot of different things go into it. First one is the niche itself. Things like lawyers, plumbers, HVAC, real estate are generally really high competition. So you want to think outside the box and try to find something that's going to be a little bit easier for you to rank in, which is why I really like the blue collar stuff. There's other factors in there too, like competition variants. So one city, say Dallas, Texas. That might be super competitive for a certain niche. But then if you move to somewhere in New Jersey, maybe that's lower there. And then also seasonality. Pool builders for example. I can do pool building in Florida all year round. But if I go to say New York, we can only do it half the year. So that kind of factors in too. And then some niches aren't even available in certain places like Hawaii. Obviously can't do snow removal there. So a lot of different things to think about. So that's definitely one piece. Another one is also phone driven. So it's a lot easier for us to generate leads for a business that you have to call them up to come to you, which is why I like contractors. It's very difficult to convince somebody to leave their house and enter a physical location. So that's another one. Also licensing. If the niche requires a license, you have to find a business who will take the leads in exchange for allowing you to use their license number on your website. So I try to avoid that. Okay. So you're saying I don't want a business where a license is required? No. Not really not unless you know somebody in that niche or the state doesn't require it. Just to protect you in case you ever get a complaint on your website or something. Okay. Also city population. Generally, I stick between 50,000 and 400,000. If it's lower than 50, typically not enough customer call volume to justify a good selling price for you. To rent that site out and make an income. And the higher you go, the more competitive it's usually going to be. So usually in that range, you can find some what I call low hanging fruit. So those are some of them still going down the checklist. There's a lot of stuff. Yeah. No, I love all this stuff. So trying to target blue collar services where the entrenched competition either doesn't have a website or their digital marketing savvy may not be up to the skills that you have. And so you may be able, you're thinking is I could get a new site to the top of the search results relatively quickly in this niche versus, of course, you know, a lawyer New York city or something like crazy competitive. Right. Right. Okay. Exactly. You know, Christmas light installation. Some mid size suburb. Like, okay, I'm going to do a little bit better. Yeah. I mean, with SEO skill set, chances are that you have more knowledge than 99% of the business owners who are doing whatever that, you know, contract type work is. So if I put up a website, I'm going to be number one in somewhere between a few weeks to a few months, even if they've been sitting at the top for the last 20 years, it doesn't matter. It'll blow right by them and then I can collect checks from this. Do you like the seasonality businesses or the seasonal businesses? I try to avoid them. I've learned my lesson just doing them enough. Like, I tried snow removal. Those great, got tons of leads, made a lot of money for a few months, but, you know, what do you do for the rest of the year? And that person doesn't pay you for seven months. And then they're like, I don't know. Should I do it again this year? So I'd rather have something that's just all the time so I can take their credit card, throw it on autopay and they just pay it like a bill. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. So we call our service trying to go low seasonality because you're, you're building them like a rental agreement like, hey, every month, we're going to send you, you know, it's going to sit at the top of Google plus or minus any algorithm changes you can get, you can expect to get these leads. And when the phone stops ringing, they're like, wait, why are we still paying this guy? So, okay, that makes sense. And then mid-sized cities, you know, super small towns. Yeah, it's going to be easy to rank, but there might not be the call volume there to justify it and avoiding the super large metro populations. So looking for that and we could probably dig up a list of cities with that side, you know, cities that might meet that criteria across reference that with a list of blue collar services and you're kind of off to the races to start play in some competitive analysis there. Anything else you're looking for in analyzing the existing search results, who once you're starting to kind of put a couple of these queries together? Wikipedia's got a list of all the US states and cities with population sizes. So you know, when I started, I threw in a list, I sorted it, topped it bottom like highest population down and then I just stick within that 50 to 400 K range. So that's in terms of the cities. And then for the niches, thumbtack.com or home advisor both have, you know, tons and tons of different niches to pick from because you can hire contractors from there. So I'll just go through occasionally and look up ones I've never heard of before and you'll see a lot of really cool ones. Or you'll just be, you know, sitting in traffic, somebody drives by with, you know, car wrap on the side of their vehicle that says, some service you've never heard of. Yeah. So I'll look it up and see, you know, how much is this worth? Are there potentially calls for this? And that's kind of like where I'm starting. But then specific to the, you know, search itself when you're actually looking at Google, I'm going to pick whatever I think is the main keyword for that niche in that city. And there's a lot of different tools you can use to help you with this, whether you want to use like a Google, Google Edward planner or, you know, there's a Chrome extension keywords everywhere that's pretty cool. It's a paid tool now used to be free. There's a free one called keyword surfer and just get a general idea of what a good keyword is. So like roofing, for example, not a great niche to be in. Definitely not. But just for the example, if I did like roofing New York City, I'm going to see 1300 searches or 1300, 1300 searches a month for that. So that's a lot of volume. So I know if I rank for that, it's going to be worth a lot of money. And then looking at the results in the maps and the organic, I want to see businesses that don't have a website in the maps. I want to see businesses with no reviews. I want to see that the businesses in the maps are different from the ones in the organic search beneath it. Because that means there might be a break in the chain there. I could probably work my way in. And I also want to see massive companies like HomeAdvisor and Thumbtack, GELP, all in the top few results organically. Because Google prefers local businesses. So if they have national ones there, that means local businesses in the area aren't doing a very good job. And I can jump right in. Okay, that's interesting. So when you say the map results, this is like the Google My Business map that shows up for a lot of local search results and says, "Here are the people nearby." And you can click on them and you're saying, "When you click on that listing and there's no website, that's a good sign for you." - Yeah, that's a great sign because if you have a website, Google would much prefer you. - Sure. - So easy wins, easy wins. - Okay. As far as the service you mentioned, like roofing is not so good, but it's like in my mind, it's like, it could be $10,000, $20,000, like roofing project. I imagine those leads are worth a decent amount. Is there a sweet spot in terms of like the price of the service that would be good to go after? - I don't know that there's a sweet spot in terms of the price of the service. It's just after doing this enough in different issues, you learn the problems with each one. There's always some issue. It's just what it is. For roofing, it's usually super competitive and it's really hard to get at the top and stay there. And then if you do, it's hard to find a contractor that does good work and needs the leads. - Okay. - So it's a lot of extra variables they have to think about. So I'd much prefer something that's a little easier to do. Like tree services, for example, that's a great one. Tons of tree providers, they generally aren't as tech savvy, they're probably not gonna rank super well unless it's a really big city. And you can usually find decent provider. - Okay, tree services, stump removal, stump grinding. Okay. - I think the gears turn in a little bit on the world of possibilities here, 'cause they're a minimum search volume in terms of what these estimator tools will throw back at you. - Yeah, see it's weird 'cause Google gives you like estimates and numbers and stuff, but some cities, it won't show you anything, but just looking at it logically, there has to be somebody asking for those services in that area. So it's one of those things where you gotta kind of take it with a grain of salt, depending on the volume and whatever, like if I'm looking at a population size of 100,000 people, and I type in plumber, and it shows me no volume, like obviously that can't be accurate. So I'm probably just gonna go for it as long as the population size is there. - Okay, yeah, everyone here has perfect pipes. Yeah, they never need any help. (laughs) Right. - Okay. - So what comes next? - So after we get that, we found nice niche that we think we can go for, I'm gonna go out and look at all the top ranking competitors and see what content they have on their websites. And this is another thing when it's kind of placed into the niche too when I'm choosing. I'm looking for websites that, you know, if the ones ranking at the top don't have a ton. Because what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna take everything they talk about, and I'm going to write double whatever they have. So, you know, the first guys got five, six different topics that you talked about. The next guys got three or four. Next guys got a couple. I'm just gonna add them all up. And I'm gonna expand on every single one of those on my site so that I am the hub. I wanna be like the Wikipedia. - Are you talking about like blog posts or just like services that they offer? - Services they offer and whatever they talk about. So like, it's always easier with an example. But like if you, if you wanted to picture what you would be like, you wanna be like the Wikipedia of whatever the topic is. So like if you type in Michael Jordan and Google, Wikipedia probably comes up with this first result even ahead of Michael Jordan's in a website. Just because it has so much information. - Okay. - Would it be worthwhile to look at like this carpet cleaning example that you sent over? - Yeah, yeah, you could look at that one. - All right, so this is IrvingTXCarpetCleaning.com, one of Luke's portfolio sites. Just got the phone number emblazoned at the top. You know, why you should trust Irving Carpet Cleaners. And it's mostly local business brochure style site, you know, just a couple different tabs. But a lot of the content is on this first page, or on the homepage rather than, you know, hiding it under a services tab or something like that. Is that part of the SEO strategy? - Yeah, that's a little bit of it because it's gonna be whatever the homepage of the website is is gonna be kind of the main one that a lot of the links are going to. And that's gonna be the one that Google's focusing on. So I wanna make sure that's no killer. And then, you know, it's interlaced with an additional of that content. It's got a lot of keywords and internal links that are linking into the other pages so that Google sees all of it. So then we build out the service pages too for each one of the services. So, you know, if you were kind of planning out your website design, that homepage would be a general overview of what you do and maybe a little summary about each specific service you offer. And then on the inner part of the website, we're gonna have a specific service page for each one of those services, you know, built out 700 to like a thousand words. And the homepage is linking to that. - Okay, so under services there's carpet cleaning, hardwood floor cleaning, pet stains and removal or odor removal, a poultry cleaning tile and grout cleaning. Okay, so like kind of subservices that a carpet cleaner might do. Okay. - Right, right. And this was one of the first websites. So it's not exactly following what I would say now. It actually needs a little bit of a revision, but it's got the general principles in place. - I was gonna say, you got your Google plus link down at the bottom. So I wanna remove it at that part. (laughing) Yeah, it's been a little while since I touched this one. - All right, fair enough. But it's an example of just, you know, kind of a simple straightforward website that says, here's what we do. Here's what we can help you with. Call us now for a quote. And that's kind of the main call to action that you want somebody to do. Now what happens when I call this number? - It goes to a contractor who's actually doing carpets and takes the leads and that person pays a few hundred bucks in order to rent the site for me. So, you know, as soon as they're paying me that flat rental fee, anything that comes in from this site calls, you know, form fills quote requests, it all goes straight to that provider. - And if they don't want your business anymore, then you just route it to somebody else that you find to say, okay, who else is a qualified provider in this area? - Right, yeah, I'll call up some other providers, see, you know, who needs the leads who wants more business and route it over to them. It's a couple clicks of the button on the back end. And then it's completely out of my hands. All the calls are recorded. They're forwarded automatically. And that's one of the reasons there's not a lot of maintenance. I don't have to do anything to make it happen. Once we set it up, - Is it through Google Voice or some like master phone tree system because you got a bunch of these different sites? - Yeah, yeah, there's lots of good ones out there. The one I use is call rail. It's just basic call forwarding and it also records all the calls that come in. And I think, you know, there's starter plans like 50 bucks a month or something. It's not bad. They give you a bunch of local numbers, instead of having an 800 number on there, people don't want to call that. - Okay. - And that's pretty much it. System takes care of itself. - And does that give you reporting on the back end, like, so you can say, "Hey, Mr. or Mrs. client, you got 10 phone calls last month. How many of those did you close? Like is this still a valuable service for you?" - Yeah, but it's got a whole dashboard that you can customize with all the details on, you know, who called, where they called from, phone number, person's name, dates, times, all the key information you need. And it can even run automated reports if you want stuff to go to you and something different to go to the client, whatever it may be. You could even brand it if you want to. - Okay. - And so on the contractors end, they recognize that it's a call coming in from the website so they can answer, or being carpet cleaning versus, you know, their company name might be slightly different. - Right. Yeah, exactly. One of the cool features of the call system that actually plays a huge role in making the whole process successful is that when you set up one of the call tracking phone numbers, you can choose between branding it as a number so that when a person, you know, receives the call, they could just save it and it's always gonna show the tracking number. Or you can have it show the customer's phone number so they don't have to go back and ask the person for it. And instead include a whisper message on the call that's basically a robot voice that only the contractor hears that says, you know, this is a call from Luke or this is a call from Irving Carpets or whatever you wanted to say. - Oh, okay. Just in case they need to answer with a slightly different script. - Right. Yeah. You know, I haven't really had an issue too many times with that. I've had a couple people say, you know, the customer's asking me why my company name is different and my answer to that contractor was, this is essentially just the DBA. - Yeah. - That's basically all it is. It's just another website you own. You can say that it's yours. But I don't really care. We have our deal on the backend. - Right, it's kind of a generic sounding local service based name and, you know, whoever is providing, okay. I want to get back into the, you know, playing matchmaker, you know, finding clients, you know, finding contractors to, you know, to farm out these leads to in a moment. But I do want to address kind of like the local SEO, maybe the 80 to 20 of local SEO on, okay, so you set this website up, you know, fill in the content with all the services that, you know, somebody looking for carpet cleaning or fill in the blank niche would be interested in. And just by virtue of doing that, you're probably not going to be discovered in Google. So what happens next to kind of push this up onto page one? - Right, so let's say you got your content launched or your website looks great. You send it out there. Now Google's going to index it. And chances are you're going to end up somewhere, outside the top 10 pages. And just based on numerous studies of Google, nobody's seeing you unless you're on page one. So it's like a business card. It's essentially useless unless people see it. And people won't unless you do some other stuff. And that next piece is local citations. So this is adding your company name, address, phone number, and typically the website link to other local websites and directories like Facebook, yellow pages, city search, AB local, super pages, all these other websites that are already trusted in Google. So that Google can say, hey, you're one of the crowd now. And it'll start trusting you more. So it gives you the boost. Okay. So it's kind of planting all these seeds where other sites allow you to punch in name, address, phone number, or area of service because you don't have a local address in Texas. You're in New York. If you don't have an address in the area, you could ask a friend, send a postcard to the friend's house. You could go get a virtual address. Post office boxes used to work along with UPS boxes, not so much anymore. Google has cracked down on it a little bit, but you want some kind of local address just long enough for you to receive a postcard because that's Google's basically their entrance fee. You need to be able to receive a card there so you can prove that you can serve that area. And if you do that, you essentially establish that address as whatever that pinpoint is on the map, and that's where your ranking's going to start. So if I want to rank in Irving, Texas, and I want to show up there at the top of the results, I need an address with the city of Irving. If I'm outside of it, my chances of ranking at the top of the maps are very low. Interesting. They don't necessarily love you doing this from far away, or you just have to partner with somebody locally to be able to verify that address and get that Google My Business listing. Right. Yeah. Like you can rank in the organic search results directly under the maps from anywhere. You don't need an address or anything. But if you really want to double that traffic and really have a lot of calls coming in, you want it to spot in the maps, that top three, right when you search whatever the keyword is, and the spot directly under it. Could you just send it to whoever your future contractor partner is going to be if you get a good feeling or if you got a good relationship with somebody who's already providing the service? You could do that, but chances are that they might already have a Google listing out there. And in my case with the rank and rent stuff, I want to own the asset completely, so it's not tied to anybody. So that way, if I have an issue with over this contractor is, I can just say, OK, you're done and find somebody else. And it's a seamless switch. OK. So local citations, Google My Business, jump it through a little bit of hoops there to make it work. Or maybe you start with your own hometown. Maybe you start local. Has one way around that too. Yeah. Use your house. And there's a way to set it up where it's like, this is the service area that I do. Like it's all your home address. It doesn't show up in Google. How about anything else on the SEO front, like, building back? I mean, who's going to link to like a carpet cleaning website? I don't know what you do for like backlink building. It's one of the things a lot of the gurus and blogs will say that you have to create all this amazing content and earn the links. But honestly, if it's a lead generation website, it's not going to happen. So you got to spend a little bit more time on the citations. Like one of the key pieces is like, people will outsource it. And if you do that, you're going to, you'll be asked for like a 200, 300 word description. And the provider is going to go out there and put the same exact description in every single citation, which, you know, it's great to have all these citation sources like you're listed in all these directories. That's awesome. But Google's duplicate content filter kicks in. And then half of those aren't going to index, which means it's not going to help you rank. So when you're doing the citations, the key piece is right, a unique description for each one you do. It takes a little bit of time. But if you do it, you might not even need any links, depending on how competitive the niche is. Okay. Interesting. I totally would have been the copy and paste guy. I mean, everybody does it. It's like an industry-wide thing. It's just this is something I've noticed in the past few years. I've been watching this because I've launched so many sites. I can see what's happening and less and less of the citations will index. And it's because of that filter. Google's seeing that and they're like, why do I want to index something that says the same exact thing as this other site and this other site over here? Yeah. They want something unique. So if you do that, you have a significant advantage over thousands and thousands of businesses everywhere because people are using this for tools like YX and Bright Local and all these citation tools that are heavily promoted in the industry all do the same thing. They put a duplicate, you know, slab a text on all these different sites and that's not helping you. Okay. So it's been a little bit of time create a unique description for each. I mean, you can still have an assistant or a helper do that, but if the budget is low starting out to that yourself. All right. We're about to get into the rent part of rank and rent, but I've got a couple helpful resources to share before we do in sports. There's this saying that speed is a weapon and the same is true in business. If you're missing calls or being slow to follow up with customers, you leave them money on the table. Sometimes without even realizing it because your potential customer, they've already moved on. That's why today's episode is brought to you by Quo spelled Q U O. This is the business communications system built so you never miss a call. Quo is the number one rated business phone system on G2 with over 3000 reviews and is built for how modern teams work. More than 90,000 businesses from side hustlers and solo operators to growing teams already rely on quote stay connected, stay professional and consistently reachable. 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We've got the, you know, it's Rank and Rent. We've got the Rank part. I take care of and you can do a deep dive on on local SEO. Let's talk about the rent part. You've got to find a qualified local contractor who is good at what they do but is hopefully hungry for a little more business. First thing is when calls start coming in, I have the call tracking phone number forward to me. I'm essentially just going to pretend to be the secretary. Somebody's going to call up for whatever it is. We'll stick with our carpet cleaning example and they just call up and they're like, hey, you know, is this serving Texas carpet cleaning? I'm like, yep, this is this is Luke. How could I help you? And I just take down all their info. Then they're going to tell me all their problems with their carpets, all the stuff they need. I have their phone number from the system. Okay. And I'll get an idea of where they are, you know, if they're actually interroving or if they're somewhere else. I'm going to take that number down and I'm basically going to say something along the lines of, you know, all of our guys are actually out doing estimates right now. Let me do this. I'll put you in touch with one of them. I'll have them call you directly in a couple hours. And they're like, okay, great. Thanks. We hang up the phone. And now I'm going to take that lead and I'm going to go find a contractor to fulfill it. How do you know who's any good? So you can do a little bit of research with Google. I'm looking through to see, you know, if they have some decent ratings, you can check Yelp. You can look at, I'd say look at the better business bureau, but I know those can be manipulated. So that one's hit or miss. Okay. You can pay for better ratings. But I like Google and Yelp kind of look at the stars. If there are anything, you know, four and a half, like lower than four and a half, I'm probably not even going to talk to them. I want those businesses that actually care about their customers and are going to do a good job because, you know, if they don't, it's going to get me some bad reviews on my website. And then it's going to hurt my potential income from this. Right. One of the ways to find people, those you go to the home advisor or thumbtack, and I just fill out the form as if I'm the customer with this issue. And then in set the end, when they want contact info, I just put mine. And then when that salesperson calls up from this carpet cleaning website or this, you know, this carpet cleaning contractor, I'm just going to pitch them on using me instead of home advisor thumbtack for the leads. And also give them this referral. Okay. So you can lead with that. value, hey, I know you just paid a lot of them to act anyways, I know you just paid for this lead. So let me make it work through a while. But while I have you, here's the proposal that I like to make. Okay. Right. Yeah. Basically just so you want some more of these. That's all it is. It's something simple. I'm not going to try to tie them down with contracts and everything. Free leads, value and advance for a few days so they can get an idea of what it's going to be like. Yeah. And they'll see the they'll see the light. Did you ever run into the problem of like, well, you know, the companies you're finding are already well reviewed on Google on Yelp. They're like, well, do I need a duplicate listing? Do I need more exposure here? Like what's the what's the appeal? Right. Yeah. It occasionally happens where we come across the business that, you know, they say we have too much or, you know, we can't handle it. And my response used to be like, that doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't you just expand and hire more people? But some companies or some people that are running them just don't have the drive to expand. Maybe they're happy where they are. Yeah. In which case, I'm just going to change tactics. I'm now going to search one of the keywords like carpet cleaning, Irving. I'm going to go back, you know, 10 pages and go through all the companies there because I know for sure that they're not getting any calls. Okay. Yeah. If they still have, I don't know. It's like, do you need the review? And that's a good question on on your front like, do you need reviews for a non-existent service before you could start to rank? It seems like a weird chicken versus the egg thing. Yeah. I mean, so you'll have your new Google listing up, right? You're ranked. Now you're sitting number one in the maps, number one in the organic search and people see your business and it says no reviews. And they're like, I don't know if I want to call that one. So that's going to hurt your call volume a little bit. Some people are still going to call. So it'd be okay. But what I'm usually telling the contractor is, listen, if you want to boost this even more and you want to really ramp up the calls that I'm sending you, I need you to take the next person you serve through this website and have them write a review on this Google My Business. Like, I'll pay 50 bucks if you get somebody to review it. And well, I don't care whether they do it themselves or if they want to have a friend review it or whether the person actually does some work and reviews it, I do need some kind of review on there just so people see that it's legit and that the service actually helps people. Gotcha. Because, you know, once it's in this other company's hands, once it's in the contractor sands, their process may be to collect reviews for their own profile or their own Facebook page or something. Okay. I have to find a way to incentivize them to do it. And it's usually something I found a few different ways to do this. One would be I will give them a discount on the rental fee for, you know, the first month. If they get some reviews on there, another one would be just to give them like a business card. And on that business card, I would put a direct link to the Google My Business profile and, you know, a free contest run something like, you know, we'll give away a $200 gift card to somebody out of anybody who leaves the review. So then you have them give that out to everybody. Okay. And then, you know, you just pick somebody and give, you know, the prize away for one of the people who left a review. And we've had a good success with that. Okay. So, you know, after you get somebody, hey, here's the pitch, you know, we're expecting, you know, based on this search volume and maybe you reign it for the first month where the calls came to you. Like, hey, if this month was typical, we expect five to 10 calls every month. And then just name a price. Like, what do you think those leads might be worth to somebody? Yeah. So I do a little bit of research on that ahead of time too. So generally, when I enter a market and a certain niche, I'm going to look at what the average job is worth in that area. So, you know, I was just looking at this one. So plumbing in Albany, New York, average job is $365. And that's data provided directly from home advisor. So that's a multimillion dollar company. I know they've done their research and that numbers legit. Okay. So now if this website is getting 30, 40 calls, you know, I could just multiply the number of calls by the average job. I have the potential value that I'm sending. And then I just have to factor in how many this contractor is going to close. So in my conversation with them, I'm asking them, you know, how many people are you going to close if I send you say 10 calls? And 90% of the time they're going to tell me, oh, 80% 90%. And then I'm going to push back on them and say, give me the real number of people you're going to close because this is, I need that information. And then they'll be like, okay, fine, like 40%, 50%. Okay. And that'll kind of let me come up with a general pricing guideline. Okay. Fair enough. Across your portfolio, is there an average monthly rent for these sites? Yeah. It's around a thousand bucks a month. So we're going to show you 900 and a thousand. A lot of the, if it's really, really low hanging fruit, like super easy ones and kind of a low ticket item, they're usually going for like 500 bucks, 600 bucks. If it's a little bit higher ticket, then 1,500, and I have one guy that pays three grand. It just depends on how valuable that services. It's really interesting. You can see how it wouldn't take too many of these to really make it make it a full time run at it, make a full time income out of it. It's just fascinating why somebody would rent the site for view versus like building it on their own because you make it sound like, well, it's not that complicated to do it or maybe make sense where it's like, okay, we can double dip our exposure versus, I don't know, it's just a weird, it's a weird one where it's like, just run Google ads yourself or something like if you're really concerned with getting more leads, it's weird. Like, no, we're going to write this guy a check for a thousand bucks a month and we're just going to get these leads, book the business and we're not going to worry about it. Yeah, it's because you know, like the ads and stuff, organic is always preferable because ads, people are being bothered, right? Somebody might need it maybe, so they'll call it right away, but ads are usually a bother and it's harder to close those people. The leads generally are lower quality, but if it's coming organic, it's kind of a different mindset for the customer because they're seeing you and they're looking at you where you're ranked and they're like, wow, these guys are number one in this entire city. It must be for a reason. They just see where you're sitting and they're like, wow, they must be the best. So they call you. Sometimes they don't even question the price. So you can generally cherry pick the leads you want and price however you'd like as long as it's within reason if you're able to secure that top spot. What happens when the service provider that you've partnered with has a change in management, has a change in processes, all of a sudden they're not delivering the quality of work that you would like and maybe you get a bad review or do something like this is not working out anymore. What's just curious about any horror stories, worst case scenario type of stuff? It depends on if the person is one, if it's something that can be fixed and you can keep them around or if it's something where you're just like, okay, this person's got to go. I had one of these recently. I have a restaurant cleaning service in Minneapolis, Minnesota. We were sending him to this guy for a few days just to basically trial it out. We probably would end up charging him around $500 a month on day three of free leads customer called up. They're like, hey, we need you to clean it and he's like, great, I'll be there tomorrow, 10 AM. 10 AM rolls around. Person never comes. Guy calls back the next day and of course I have all the recordings just listening to all this. And the guy's like, hey, it's 10.30. Nobody's here. And the contractor that I was sending the leads to was just like, yeah, I'm not really interested in that and just hung up. And I listened to the call. Well, I have a partner on some of these sites. I listened to the call. He calls me up and he's like, dude, you got to hear this one. And I was just playing it and I was like, why would you ever tell a customer that? That's your income. That's your livelihood. It doesn't make sense. So that was an instant like, dude, you're done. I just, I called them up. I'm like, I heard the last call the customer. That's it. We're done. And then we just had to find somebody else. Yeah. It happens occasionally. There's nothing you could really do about that. You try to do your due diligence upfront, but people present a great front. You just got to test it out. See how it goes for a little bit. Yeah. Well, most of these months to month, or do you say like, I want a six month commitment, 12 month commitment? I do monthly. I know a lot of other people in the industry do six months, 12 months. But what I found is that if you're doing a good job of providing leads, which if your site's at the top, it's just going to keep bringing them in. Yeah. People generally don't leave. As long as you're priced decently, like I'm aiming for my contractor that I'm sending leads to to get a minimum 10x return. So if I'm charging them 500 bucks, I'm bringing them at least five grand in business, usually way more. So that way, it's a no brainer to keep me around. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Make it easy for them. Make it money that they're happy to spend and keep spending. Right. Yeah. Because then it's less stuff for me to do too. I don't have to keep looking for new contractors. I can just leave that one and move on. I just want to rinse and repeat the process and get another 20 sites out there instead of trying to get that extra 200 bucks for this site. Yeah. How long does somebody typically stay with you? Or I mean, you've been doing it since 2016-ish. If you had clients from the very beginning, or is there some turnover here, just like a regular apartment or rental house is going to have turnover? Since the beginning, when I first started, I have not, I've lost one contractor, a single one. He ruined my stats. I had 100% rate. Until that guy ruined it. He basically like it was a liquidation company. He partnered with Well, he essentially got acquired by a larger company and that company just had no interest in continuing with lead generation They were going in different direction So we lost that person. I had to find somebody else But it wasn't a big deal because it took us a week to replace it and then I still have that income. Okay, but we've so I've lost one person It's just you got to choose you know people up front finding the right person is You might go through a few just trialing out leads and trying to see who's gonna work out But once they start paying you it's pretty much game over from there Is that's really interesting? They're in it for the long haul. They're saying hey keep them coming what kind of time? Does it take to manage after this initial Content creation and local citations and this initial contractor Outreach it sounds like as long as the rankings hold It's pretty hands off from there, but like you do anything to you know maintenance wise SEO or if Somehow you you drop off the first page like oh the call volume dropped You know how you're dealing with that to try and bump it back up Yeah, I mean I know how it's gonna sound but really not not much time maybe a couple hours a week Find like maintenance type stuff I might go in and make and add it to a site based on something a contractor wants to do or you know Maybe I update a theme because the you know the plugins expiring or something That's about it in terms of ranking the site once it gets there it generally stays if you do the work correctly the first time on The occasional time where there's an issue, you know You might have to do some more links to try to push your site up a little higher or you know worst case scenario Maybe your Google my business page goes down. I you know I had that happen for one of the first sites I started but I have a vehicle wraps website in Phoenix You know populations 1.6 million people as number one number one now I'm still number one an organic but my map listing disappeared Because Google didn't like you know how I set it up which you know it occasionally it happens But it's not a big deal because I can just go find another virtual office send another postcard and I'll be up and running again in a week Okay, it looks like this Carpick cleaning says built-on Webly is that your your go-to like tech stack for just for the site structure for beginner I would say definitely for ease of use you know wicks or webly I personally like we believe super easy drag and drop everything You know you want to add a title to the page you click on title drag it over to the page You want to add paragraph you click on the little paragraph icon drag it to the page It couldn't be easier for a person who knows you know almost zero code like me so You know the first bunch of sites were that I built one built it out how I wanted it And then it has a cool feature where you can duplicate the entire structure of the website So if you want to build you know nine more the next nine are going to be really fast You just duplicate the site and paste in new content. Gotcha. That's it. That is a handy feature And I imagine there's wordpress plugins or something that will do the same thing like across different builders But yeah saves you some saves you some copying and pasting Yeah, that's the that's the easier out so if you're a newbie webly is a great one if you're a little bit more advanced You want to go the wordpress route? So that's the way to go if you really want to scale so if you get to the point where you know Maybe you've you've killed your job now you get enough of these whatever you want to go 20 50 hundred sites That's when you go to wordpress it build out you I paid somebody to do it I took a virtual assistant from the Philippines. I gave them my website and I said I want you to recreate this with a free theme And then export it as a file so that every time I'm on an open a new site I could just import it load the whole thing paste and content and go and I just trained a VA had to do it all for me Look, this is a fascinating stuff You know people are starting to do the math saying well you got a portfolio of a hundred of these things average A thousand bucks a month and rent What motivates you to keep building keep growing imagine this is like a pretty nice I mean even beyond just a lifestyle business is a pretty substantial operation here What's what's going on now for the rest of this year? What is the future hold? So I will say just just for clarity purposes. I want to have a hundred thousand dollars a month There's a lot of money. It's not that high 30% of the sites are rented out 70% are in the ranking process somewhere page one like bottom toward or like page two work in my way up Okay, so all of those aren't rented out because of course some of them I built this year So it's taking me time like a few of them went up last week But yeah, no, it's absolutely crushing it so you don't need a job when you got a bunch of these going going forward I actually I used to do client SEO. I used to work I learned the skill set and I started working on other people sites And I just did not like being in contact with the client all the time because they were always complaining like You know asking me to make changes sending reports and it was just taking up a lot of my time Which is why I switched to this model where I essentially own this digital real estate and I just rented out to a tenant But a lot of those clients also at the time were always asking me, you know, how do I how do I do this essentially like you know Teach me how to do what you're doing so don't have to pay you and at the time it irritated me But thinking about it now, you know, I don't have them anymore I kept in touch with all of them. They're asking the same thing So I put up a Facebook group specifically for contractors and people who wanted to kill their job By building these rank and rent websites and I started adding them all to it. So Coming out with a course in a couple weeks and it's going to be exactly how to do it So they don't have to pay a market and company a thousand dollar a month retainer or You know if it's a normal person with a nine to five just exactly how I did this how I built this sites up and just rented out To help those same contractors Appreciate you drop him by share and your stuff again. It was really interesting unique Business here where it's like yeah, I'm gonna own this digital real estate and find people who Would want to rent that out from me. I think it's genius I'd heard about it first years ago, but you know, never really meant anybody like you know in the trenches doing it So appreciate you coming by Luke let's wrap this thing up with a number one tip for side hustle nation You really just got to take whatever that businesses and go for it It doesn't matter what the business is if you think it can work and you put in the time You can get results with all these different things I've done I've had some success on each one you can do it if you push for it. You just got to go for it take the leap It's so true. Thanks for sharing and we'll catch up with you soon appreciate the time next thanks This one definitely got my gears turning as a really interesting and unique side hustle that's a win win win It's businesses getting more jobs customers are hopefully connecting with great service providers And you're getting paid too now if it were me I probably start local or semi local I just feel like that might be easier to build Relationships with service providers you could use a keyword research tool to punch in all of the different service categories from the thumbtack Or another site and then in combination with the name of your city or town to see you what the estimated search volume looks like what the Relative competitiveness looks like and then also thinking about what the average job might cost In those service categories it honestly sounds like kind of a fun puzzle or challenge But let me know what you think if you give this one a shot. I'd love to hear from you once again notes and links from this episode Along with the full text summary are at side hustle nation.com/rank and rent you can learn more and also apply for a strategy Call with a look at website rental coaching.com/shn For side hustle nation website rental coaching.com/shn Now let me get the time machine fired up and we'll be right back to checking here with Luke in 2026 A lot of side hustlers suffer from this debilitating disease called what if iDIS? What if it doesn't work? What if I don't have the skills? What if I pick the wrong path But one thing a hundred percent of our amazing side hustle show guests having common is they took their shot They faced down those what ifs and they got their answers through taking action Our partner Shopify helps you turn those what ifs into why nots? Shopify is the commerce platform that powers millions of businesses around the world What if you never built a website before? Well, they've got hundreds of ready-to-use templates that help you build a beautiful online store that matches Your brand style. What if people haven't heard about your brand? That's where everybody starts Shopify helps you find your customers with email and scroll stopping social media campaigns too And what if you get stuck? Shopify is always around to share advice with their award winning 24/7 customer support It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today sign up for your one dollar per month trial today at Shopify dot com slash side hustle go to Shopify dot com slash side hustle that's shopify dot com slash side hustle Right now we're all trying to do more with less and I want to let you in on a tool that lean Mean high performing teams are using right now to be more efficient and buy back some of their time Our sponsor gusto is the online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses It's all in one it's remote friendly and it's incredibly easy to use So that means you can pay higher on board and support your team from anywhere I'm talking about automatic payroll tax filing simple directed deposits health benefits workers comp 401k You name it gusto makes it simple it has options for nearly every budget And if you ever have any questions you've got direct access to gusto's certified HR experts So you can get back to running your business, but you don't have to just take my word for it gusto is ranked number one on g2's high highest satisfaction products list for 2026. And it's already trusted by over 400,000 small businesses. I want to invite you to try Gusto today at gusto.com/side hustle and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months of free payroll at gusto.com/side hustle. One more time, it's gusto.gusto.us.to.com/side hustle. Look, welcome back to the side hustle show. Catch us up. It's been five years. What's going on with the rank and rent portfolio these days? Oh, man. Thanks, sir. Great, Nick. Happy to be back on the portfolio is much larger than it was before. And we've got AI in here and lots of very cool stuff going on. So excited to talk about it. How many sites are you running these days? 230 sites, 80% rented, averages about 185 grand a month, depending on what happens with the commission and rev share deals. Rev shares new. So I started doing that and that's had quite a dramatic impact, which is nice. 180 grand a month. Yeah, it averages. It's all over. It's up and down 30 grand from that either way, depending on what happens with the commission. Okay, close to mind it's still crazy. That's a pretty serious operation. Tell me about the rev share thing. So I think previously we talked about, look, it's just going to be a flat fee. It's going to be a thousand bucks a month to rent out the site. I hadn't really thought about this and then I always on a Bradley had me on dropping bombs. And we were talking about it afterwards. He's like, yeah, we do a lot of rev share. So I came back and I started going to the clients that were paying like larger flat fees. And I talked to them about doing rev share and I've started pitching it to all new people. Anytime it was like a bigger niche, so something like demolition or like a high ticket emergency plumbing, things that were just more expensive. And I was basically pitching it as I would like access to the CRM to be able to see, like it read only to be able to see what you're bringing in. And you know, this will be on me, right? I've skin in the game now if I'm taking a percentage. So I have all incentive to push this as much as possible and make you a lot more money. So that pitch has kind of been going better because they're like, okay, they don't have that much risk because it's on me to generate instead of a flat fee. It's now performance based. So yeah, yeah, you can see that being more amenable. But of course you come out ahead if it works because now, oh, if they book a couple hundred grand worth of jobs. It still works out. I have one person that was like getting pissed off at the rev share because they're like, dude, you're making so much money. And I'm like, yeah, but you're making the most. I'm like, you wouldn't have any of this if I wasn't doing this. So it's, it's created some interesting conversations with clients. I switched one person to just a higher flat fee, like flip them to rev share, then flip them back. But what it's still working out in my favor and students favors. So the rev share thing was huge, really cool. Definitely. What's the typical like percentage wise? 10, 15%. Depending on what it is. Okay. It's higher than I would have expected. I don't know how much margin is in some of these higher ticket services. But that's a good chance to be paying for the leave. It's one of those things I'm negotiating. I'm always pitching a little bit higher. And then I'm just like, I don't part of the thing that's helping is I don't need it. So if they don't want it, I'm like, all right, that's fine. I could just do it with somebody else. So just pitch somebody else. Yeah, this is affiliate marketing just on a really high touch localized scale. With an affiliate program that you're going to have to go cut the deal yourself. You're not going to find it off the shelf at impact or commission junction or anything like that. You're going to have to make these deals and think of it from the buyer's perspective. You're the contractor's perspective of like, well, what's my cost of acquisition? Would I be willing to pay 10% to a look to not have to worry about my marketing to have somebody else take care of lead gen. And still hopefully make make a good income after completing the jobs. Right. Yeah. It's exactly what it is. I think it's the rapport building and some of the stuff with, you know, talking to people and trying to establish that upfront. That's still the same. People still just want to know that you can connect. Has anything changed on the niches that you like? Some of these higher ticket services like demolition and emergency plumbing, anything else been kind of cropping up lately for either you or your students? Not necessarily changing a ton of the niches, just a little bit more selective and what I pick and trying to find higher level uses of the skill set. Like 2023, I bought an ice cream catering company and I was like, I could apply lead gender this. So I'm now like looking for things that I can apply lead gen to so that I could just make more money on other things that interest me. I'm in the middle of underwriting for a paving company that I'm going to buy. That's another one I can just spin up some SEO for it. I can get some map listings going and that'll crush some just trying to combine multiple things I like and be a little bit more choosy. You're out you're out scooping ice cream on the weekends now. Ice cream. So yeah, the bought a company 52 trucks, three states gave my brother half the company to run it. So I'm not involved. I'm just doing lead gen for it. I just paid for it. The lead gen skill set, the same skill set applies. So I can use that to grow it, brings in more stuff. And yeah, just trucks driving around selling like, you know, over price ice cream, the kids, crushing it for me. Come come summer. You're like, you're taking okay. Yeah, this is my screw balls, you know. Yeah, this is an interesting one because it's like to you, the asset may be undervalued. If I'm bringing in kind of this complimentary skill set, maybe they're not really taking advantage of digital marketing or online real estate in the way that you know you could. Right. And you could say, well, I can pay this multiple, but I know if I apply steps one, two, and three within six to 12 months, it's going to be worth X. So cash flow in the meantime, plus, you know, this equity multiple as you can expand the value there. Yeah, it's huge. And I didn't really, I didn't really realize it. I was just having a conversation with my CPA and I was like, how do I, how do I not pay taxes? And she left and she's like legally and I was like, yes, legally. And she goes by business and I was like, what do you mean? And she's like, just buying existing business. So she like recommended me to go to the seminar. I like learn this and a few months later, I own a, I own a business and then I'm just like buying more and now using this to do that. And it's just another thing I'm kind of adding because I really like that you could apply the SEO skills into it. You just pick something. I'm going to help you on your taxes though. Well, yeah. So it'll help one year and then you got to buy another one to keep using depreciation. So like the hard assets, the trucks, the furniture, the equipment, FF&E, furniture, future, equipment, you use that to depreciate against your active income. And then you could do a cost segregation on the land to also help go against your income. But then every year you would, it's, it's, it's, we're essentially just delaying this because then the next year you'll just make more money. Yeah, two businesses now you got to do this again. So I'm in the loop now, but I'm cool that it's, it's great. Everything's going good so far. All right. So far so good. There was the ice cream. What was the second one you said? Paving company. Okay. Ice cream was one of a similar structure where the existing ownership is going to stay on or you find another operator. Yeah, so the ice cream, I'm running out of brothers. So the ice cream was 50% I gave to my brother to run it so I can keep me passive. The paving one, I'm going to have to hire somebody to run it so I don't have to. So I'll be in there for a couple of weeks, kind of learn what he's doing, hand it off to somebody, and then back out to do my lead gen. And then that personal will do it. Just owner since the start 40 years in business, he's got a whole team in place. So I shouldn't have to do much. That's the dream anyways. We'll speak. We'll see. I've done a lot of due diligence trying to do it. There was a lot of stuff we missed on the first company because obviously I'd never bought a business before. So you always learn things. Trial by fire. Got it. So it sounds like parlaying some of the online cash flow into more of an offline asset, almost becoming the type of customer who would have hired you for these website buildouts. Yeah. Yeah, combining it. And attack and attacks strategy at some point. Anything that has changed in the world of rank and rent. We've had a couple of your protege's, couple of your students on in between our episodes. But what's going on there in terms of either the SEO side of things or Google business profiles like what's going to you see? Yeah, I see a lot of stuff. I know there's a lot of hype about AI and taking away search and so forth. Google still got 90% of the market share. So that's good. But across lead gen sites and things. People still want to talk to a person. So that's that's not really having much of an impact on our blue collar stuff. And then if we want to take advantage of it, we're using a lot of structured data. So changing the way that we're doing. Patterns and things to be more question based like who, who do we serve and just changing everything into a question and then writing the paragraph on red. And we try to get like a direct answer right away and then go into the detail below the answer lots of schema. Okay, so schema is a fancy word for this structured data to tell Google that this is a frequently asked question rather than just straight text on the page. And so it can kind of index it, site, somewhat differently and hopefully serve that up to somebody who's looking for that exact thing. Right. Yeah, so a lot of that. The frequently asked questions is super helpful and just making sure that the structure is correct when you're like setting it up. If you're using like something like Elementor wordpress, it's just a drag and drop. So you'll have the questions is like h2s and then little paragraph below it. And just doing that has helped a lot more websites appear in those AI overviews and you could also manipulate what appears in the AI overview with press releases like you used to do in the old days. What would be an example of a press release you're sending out just like. Who's the best ice cream company in state? And then you write a whole article about how your company's the best company in the state, and then it goes out, and you'll notice that Chatchy BT starts picking up your best ice cream company in the state because you've appeared in so many places. So it's like taking us back to like 2000s when we're like manipulating things to move things up in the search engine. It's like, even if it was like a completely self-serving press release, it's not like you got an award for being the best ice cream. It's just like, we're going to raise our hand. We're the best ice cream. No, but I've seen it work. I've seen it work, which was really funny. And it just gave me a laugh. Yeah, that is what a time to be alive. We've seen the interesting thing is if you can get your company to show up in the search results, and it's when we did a whole episode on ranking in AI and the guest mentioned press releases there as well. But the conversion rate from that, she said, was like 10 to 15 times higher than Google. Like the inherent trust that people are putting into some of these AI answers, notwithstanding how easily manipulated they are or made be at the moment, it was kind of great. It was really eye opening to see how much maintenance is required for this portfolio of 200 plus sites as things go stale and links break and content needs updating. It sounds like a full-time job. So to compensate for the slightly increased maintenance level, I have moved one of the VAs to like full time going in and kind of fine-tuning things for our new AI future here. So using our new stuff, like using manness and claw to write better content and insert more topical relevance and put in landmarks and other things to make content better, they're going back through old sites and making those more robust so that it kind of further secures my spot, generates more leads, kind of protects the future safeguards a little bit. Right, because if you're the competition is in standing still, right? You can't just have a completely static resource that you never touched and expect the paycheck to keep coming in. Right. What's next for you? What's got you excited these days? I'm pumped to do a few things. I mean, one, with my students, I've changed a lot of things and I'm bringing out, I have a friend who's an AI engineer by trade. He's worked at some really big companies like Coinbase, Amazon, Google, all these things. And we've been developing tools that can automate portions of the process. So he just created a tool that does all the niche research for me that will be releasing to our members soon, which is cool. So it'll go and it'll take me the biggest piece of the pie or one of the first building block. Yeah. For all the profitability and figuring it out. So it's like taking all of my example sites that are doing well, funneling in all the stuff that didn't work, all the stuff that is work, all the mistakes that I've ever made, all that's in there. And then it's looking at all these different data sources to pull in just intelligence on like, why is this market good? Why is this one we should do? Why or why not? And it'll give you all the reasons. Like, here's your level of risk. Here's here's all the reasons it would make sense. And like how much money it would cost and the average price of the job. And this market's a good one because it has X number of companies that you could reach out to. And you know, here's how fragmented the market is. These people are paying for ads. These people aren't like it will give you everything. Yeah. So I know going in that my chance of success is this number on a scale, which is awesome. And then once we get in, he's also developing another tool. This one's taking a little bit longer, but we're in the middle of it to just take it from you punch in the net she want. And it spits out the completed site following my exact process and 10. Yeah. That'd be really cool. I mean, that's it's that I wish it was already done. So I can just like show you this life. But we're just in the middle of it now. Well, coming soon, coming soon, we'll be sure to link that up or if you check out website rentalcoaching.com/shan you'll be able to see what Luke is up to over there. Again, get your stuff and buy any other parting words of guidance here for this time travel catchup segment. Where AI is going blue collar work appears to be the thing that will be the last to be disrupted. Right. White collar stuff where we're sitting in front of a computer typing things in. That's something that can be erased with AI. But if you can create some kind of income on the side to protect yourself, there's one way to prepare. And the other one is to learn some of these AI tools. If you think of like distribution and math math class, if anybody remembers this or stats, there's like that bell curve. And I'm thinking about it from like an adoption perspective. There's the people who are like, I'm never going to use AI. There's people who are like, I want to know everything that's coming out. And then there's everybody in the middle. If you can shift yourself closer to the, all right, AI is coming, whether we like it or not. Let's try to figure it out. You're going to be better in a better position to at least know how to use some of these things so that you're not the person that gets removed when AI is replacing a job. Well, this is such an interesting place to play. I'm going to use these AI tools to support these blue collar un-AIable businesses, the driveways, the demolitions, the pavers, the roopers, and stuff. It's like, okay, that's unlikely to get outsourced, but maybe some of their marketing may be. And if I could position myself to use some of the AI tools to improve their marketing, maybe I can keep myself safe from that. It's fascinating. Fascinating world to live in. Listen to our bonus for this one, 50 potential rank and rent niches to kickstart your research process. You can download that for free at the show notes for this episode. Just hit the link in the episode description. It'll get you right over there. Big thanks to Luke for sharing his insight. Thanks again to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone. SideHustleNation.com/deals is where to go to find all the latest offers from our sponsors in one place. That is it for me. Thank you so much for tuning in. Until next time, a let's go out there and make something happen. And I'll catch you in the next edition of The SideHustle Show. Hustle on.