Speaker 1Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like. And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average $21 with insurance, and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as $0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com slash ACAST. That's growtherapy.com slash ACAST. growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.
Speaker 2In a way, Mumsnet has always rejected that. If anything, it's been the movement of benign neglect on Mumsnet that's celebrated. And I think we're coming around to that a bit because there's just too much pressure on family life. There's too many expectations. And I think people are beginning to think, actually, maybe it's not healthy that we are so tiger mummish about our kids.
Speaker 3Hello and welcome to the How Not to Screw Up Your Kids podcast. So, pour yourself a cuppa, find a comfy seat, and enjoy the conversation. In today's episode, I'm in conversation with Justine Roberts, CBE. She's a mother of four and the founder and chief executive of Mumsnet and Gransnet. She's a woman who gets things done, and I very much enjoyed speaking to her. Now, of course, we talked about Mumsnet. Why would we not? And the secret to its phenomenal success. As a platform to have that many mothers engage, and it's beyond that. So, you're going to really want to listen. We talked about that. We talked about being a working mum, and we talked about the Mumsnet campaign, Rage Against the Screen. So, it's a new campaign designed to help parents kind of understand the dangers of smartphones and social media, which I guess a lot of us know more and more of. But what's really fabulous about this particular campaign is it's also empowering us to take action to protect our children's health, and Justine makes an announcement in the middle of the show. So, if you enjoyed this episode, and particularly this one, because this will be relevant to every single parent, regardless of what age and stage your child is at, you are going to get so much from this episode. So, if you enjoy it, why not take a moment to share with a friend, a colleague, a neighbour, or a family member, so that others can find us, and we can spread the love. So, until next time. Here's Justine. I want to start with a quote that I've just happened to have seen today, which is from Eileen Collins, who's quoted today. She's the first woman to pilot and command a spacecraft, who has said, it's harder to be a parent than a space shuttle commander. In your experience, given that, I guess, the founding of Mumsnet happened at the time when you were a new mum, what do you think?
Speaker 2Well, I think that was partly why, you know, we started Mumsnet. It's because, yes, it's hard, but more to the point we don't get any training. And I imagine if you're a space shuttle commander, I would hope you get some training. And so, it's this being thrust into this position, which is incredibly important. You know, you are shaping people's lives without any really formal sort of guidance. So, we have our networks, and we have our mums, and we have our role models. But what I was finding back in 2000, way back in, well, it's actually 1999, when I conceived, when I conceived of Mumsnet, was that my network were not at the same stage as me. My mum had, you know, done it a long time ago. Things had changed a lot. And what I wanted to do was tap into the wisdom of others who'd been there and done that, you know, just before me, really. And that was the spirit of Mumsnet and why we started it. And that's why it's still, you know, that's really what it's doing today, is allowing people to tap into the wisdom of others.
Speaker 3And it's just been phenomenally successful. When you think of all those, you know, those that have come and gone, even after Mumsnet has been founded, who've really tried to build communities, and nothing in comparison. What do you think is the sort of the secret source that you've had to the longevity of it?
Speaker 2Well, I think there are a couple of things. One, I think, that's really important that sort of gets missed is you can be anonymous on Mumsnet. And as a result, you can speak the truth. So, that means both the people asking questions and the people answering. Can be really honest. So, the sort of quality of interaction is it's different to other social media types like Facebook. You can't really have an honest conversation about how your middle child is the work of the devil on Facebook. You know, or that your mother-in-law's a pain in the ass or all the rest of it. So, it's actually being able to be really honest and that creates all this amazing, relatable content. So, most people on Mumsnet are not actually posting, they're lurking, they're consuming and they're consuming. All this amazing, all these amazing threads about people's everyday lives that are really honest and truthful. So, that for me is one thing. And I think the other thing is we have always taken moderation quite seriously. So, we've trained our moderators. We've moderated according to a philosophy and given them quite a lot of leeway to be pragmatic and to be sensible, but also to keep the conversation civil. So, I think that's been something. And then the third thing, I think, is that it's a female domain. It's a highly unusual and it does mean, I think, that people are sort of more open to discussion and ideas. There aren't, you know, these few very loud voices dictating what's going on. So, that's been a helpful thing. So, those three things, I think, are why we've survived the vicissitudes of, you know, running a platform.
Speaker 3Yeah. Well, I can admit to being a lurker. Okay. I was definitely, I never posted, but it was just such a wonderful space. It was actually, it was the real honesty of, and I think that I think comes often with some shame and guilt for women, particularly around this idea that we should be enjoying parenting, being motherhood. And it should be something that is natural. And to be able to say, quite frankly, right now, I don't enjoy it at all. And my youngest, I really don't like.
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly. And, you know, it's women aren't really allowed to talk freely in many places. And I think Mums Day is a space where women do talk freely. And, you know. We see it at the moment. We have a massive conversation around weight loss drugs, things that women can't really admit, even to their partners. Lots of them are doing this in secret, but they want handholding and they want a community around it. So, Mums Day fulfills that for those women. So, there's all kinds of things, I think, that women can't really talk freely about, even in whatever we are, 2025. Yeah. And Mums Day provides a space for that.
Speaker 3And particularly that, I mean, that's kind of interesting because I haven't looked. I haven't looked at Mumsnet for a while. Now, my children, my oldest is nearly 25. And so, well, no, he is 25. He's nearly 26. But actually, that's a really interesting thing because particularly with the weight loss drugs, there's been a huge amount of finger pointing and shame around that. Yeah. So, that just speaks volumes to the evolution of the platform that it's gone beyond.
Speaker 2We call it the home of women's conversation. I think that's what it is. Now, a lot of that is about kids and families and all the paraphernalia that goes with that. But lots of it isn't. It's just about what's on women's minds.
Speaker 3Yeah. And have you seen, when we think about sort of motherhood, and obviously with each generation things change, have you seen some distinct changes?
Speaker 2Yeah, I think, I mean, there have been some sort of macro trends. So, I think most women on Mumsnet are working now. And when I say working, be careful what I say. I mean, working outside of the home. But most families have two parents working. And, you know, lots of families have different shapes and sizes. But the people are busier, I would say, in terms of the demands on them. You know, often their parents are living longer, so they're caring both ends, as it were. So, there's a lot of squeeze on people's time. I think that's something that's made life harder. I think the other big change is, and we'll go on to talk about this, is the advent of. Social media, phones, smartphones first, and then social media, which has its own challenges, both for you and I and everyone who has one, but also for parenting and how you negotiate the world of your kid, you know, basically being able to access a whole world that you have no control over. And I also think the other thing is, you know, probably just before we started, so 2000 we launched. Well, when I was brought up and brought. - Probably when you were brought up, parenting was a very different thing. It wasn't really a verb. You were just a parent and you were there to sort of basically make sure your kids were fed and clothed and went out the house with a coat on. And somehow from between then and when we started in 2000, parenting became a verb. And then there were all kinds of different parenting fads, different ways you were supposed to be. So whether it was attachment parenting or calm parenting or anything else like that, or tiger mum became a thing. And I think we may just about becoming a bit full swing where instead of sort of being so quite so involved. And there's now this movement called FAFO, which I'm sorry to swear on your podcast, but basically means fuck around and find out. So if you don't take your coat out and, you know, nine year old Johnny, it's best that Johnny learns that he might get wet rather than have this sort of 45 minute wrangle and argument or ultimately bribery to get Johnny to. Do it. So I think that's changed in a way. We've seen the rise of loads of movements, parenting movements in a way. Mumsnet has always rejected that. And if anything, it's been the movement of benign neglect on Mumsnet that's celebrated. Yeah. And I think particularly on mothers. And I think people are beginning to think, actually, maybe it's not healthy. That we are so tiger mummish about our kids. Yeah. You know, in a world where there's so much uncertainty and who knows what AI brings to the jobs market, et cetera, et cetera. I think the mental health epidemic that's coming perhaps from mobile phones. I think people are beginning to think that the main thing is that my my kid is resilient. Yeah. And, you know, is able to be happy. So what's the parenting trend then that that means? What does that mean? I have to be. And that's the kind of discussion we're seeing on the website.
Speaker 3Yeah. And I love that it's coming around that that full circle, because I have to say, I'm not a fan of parenting. The sort of labeling of gentle parent or attachment parent, because I just think you're fundamentally parenting. That's basically what we're all doing. But I have actually and it's a whole other episode to talk about. But I do wonder sometimes as well whether people like me, parenting experts are part of the problem. Whether actually we feed into that because then parents lose. What I think is an intuitive sense of what's right for my family right now, regardless of what anyone else might be doing.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's what's right for my family. But also my kids are very different. I've got four kids. They, you know, they they had very different personalities. And I think sometimes you think it's all down to you. And actually, it's not at all. You are basically the custodian of an individual that has a very distinct personality. And all you can do really is not fuck it up. Yeah. But so I think parents put too much pressure on themselves. And I think it's it's great. I mean, I wouldn't blame the experts. I think, you know, it's great to have it's great to have research and science and data to draw back on. But ultimately, I think it's in parenting needs to be personalised to the family and to the child. And and maybe these movements of how you're supposed to do it. They don't fit all that. One size does not fit.
Speaker 3No. And as you say, each child could benefit from a whole different parenting style altogether. Yeah. In terms of how you're then seeing. I mean, there's lots of things, conversations around women and having it all. And we're in the workplace and we're trying to glass ceilings and the rest of it all. What are your views given raising four children, creating this huge community? What would you say is around this whole idea about having it all work life balance?
Speaker 2I mean, I've always said there is not really I don't really understand the concept of work life balance. I think it's because, you know, how especially with phones, actually. How can you be a part? I don't know whether I'm I'm listening to radio for in the mornings that work or is that life? You know, it's kind of everything feeds into everything. It's all a big merger. And I think, you know, my thoughts about how you kind of navigate this world where, you know, it's very hard to we don't have nine to fives where we clock off. Really? Yeah. We have flexible working and hybrid working and all kinds of different setups. I think that, you know, the thing is to be kind to yourself, basically. To not try and be perfect. I mean, the one thing that Mumsnet was the antidote to was those baby magazines where people had cashmere booties and blankets everywhere. And the baby looked perfect and the mother looked perfect as soon as she'd given birth. We've just got to reject that idea of perfection. For me, it's clinging on to the things that are important to you and letting everything else slide is the key way to navigate this incredibly busy, incredibly hectic. World where there are so many demands on us.
Speaker 3Yeah. And I think I've read one of the articles, I think, that you've probably written or been interviewed about this idea about not losing sight of who we are. Obviously, motherhood is an important role that we have, but it's not the only role that we have. No, and your kids do leave eventually.
Speaker 2Yeah. It takes a while, but they do leave. And, you know, you'll always be a parent to them, but you also have to have your own identity. And we see lots of, you know, quite sad stories on Mumsnet of people who. You feel bereft when their kids, you know, go off eventually and that will happen. And that's normal and right. And if you've done a good job, you know, it's great that they don't need you anymore. So, yeah, trying to find your own carve out your own space is important.
Speaker 3There's a big part. Now, you talked about this idea about blurring and hybrid and where the lines blur. So let's let's kind of tackle the whole tech thing, because I think that this is a big part of it. And I think nowadays we are as adults. On our phones, because we need to, because we're working and that's part of that. But obviously, it's a whole different ballgame when we're talking about young children. And Mumsnet are championing a ban on social media for children. Well, any under 16 year olds. Yeah. Talk to me a little bit about how that came about.
Speaker 2So we notice more and more discussion on our forums about how parents were struggling to navigate this world. Stories of. Kids who are very addicted. So, you know, a parent would take the phone away at bedtime and then they'd they'd hear a noise in the middle of the night and find children creeping around desperately trying to find phones. That kind of level of addiction that has been described by our users as akin to crack cocaine. You know, that's that's what they're battling with. And so we we surveyed everyone and found out what, you know, a bit more about it. And it turns out that parents are in this really difficult situation where they. Feel you have to have a phone because, you know, a for the practical stuff, the very often schoolwork, but also your travel and keeping in touch and all the rest of it. You have to have a phone. But the problem with smartphones is it gives you all this massive access. If you try and take it away because you're worried about your kid's mental health, attention span, being addicted, you know, not being able to control the usage, then you are essentially taking away their lifeline to their friends. So it's it's sort of social isolation. So what we identified is a collective action problem. It's fine if everyone does it, but it's very hard to do it on your own. And that's what government is there for, to attack collective action problems. So we anyway, we surveyed our users and it turned out 80 percent or so, just over 80 percent, thought that a social media ban for under 16s would be helpful. And it is specifically social media they're worried about. And that is because, as we all know now, I don't think we knew, but increasingly it's just addictive by design to ask a young child to try and control this thing that has been, you know, the best brains in the world have spent their time trying to make it more addictive. Every single button or link or sound or color has been put there thoughtfully to try and increase the engagement on the platform. And you and I know it's hard enough for us to stop the doom scrolling. So how do you expect kids to make that choice, especially when it opens up this? It's a very exciting world, full of dopamine hits, full of their friends, et cetera, et cetera. So all in all, what our users have told us is this is ruining family life for them. The constant battle, the constant feeling that their kids are, you know, getting issues around self-esteem, issues around attention. You know, 62 percent of our users are worried about their kids mental health. This is not a small number. So, you know, whether or not we have every last bit of research. That proves something beyond correlation. I don't know. And I don't really care. It's obvious from the way parents feel in our bones that we know this thing is unhealthy. Spending too much time on your mobile phone with these addictive algorithms is unhealthy. So we have launched. Sorry, that was very long. A campaign called Rage Against the Screen, where we are doing two things. One is trying to encourage parents to take group action around. Friendship groups around school years, even asking their school to ban the phone as well, where they agree that either they won't, you know, buy their kids smartphones till a bit later, or they agree a sort of collective set of usage rules that everyone sticks to. And then it's you can't say, but my friend is wants to, but my friend. And that sort of helps to negate the peer pressure. And at the same time, we are lobbying government very hard with, you know, interviewing all the relevant. Ministers to try and get them to take this issue seriously, which so far they have shown. very little appetite to do but we hear there may be noises that they're beginning to right slightly
Speaker 3differently yeah because they've watered down the online safety bill in so many ways and to me there feels like there's a appeasement to big tech
Speaker 2yes they've mooted recently a kind of idea that there will be a maximum time limit of two hours per platform per day now that means if you're on snap and tiktok and instagram you've got six hours there already you can i mean our users really don't think that's gonna have any effect whatsoever but what is interesting is that this is would be a really popular and cost-free measure so i think everyone's waiting for australia just introduced it to see how it plays out there but there have been all kinds of excuses offered by government so for instance we don't want to criminalize young people but if you even look at the way smoking is you don't criminalize the kids you criminalize the shop keeper which is big tech things like oh we haven't had enough research we haven't seen it there's it's correlation not causation i mean you can't take a group of 11 year olds and show them addictive algorithms for eight hours a day you know as part of a control experiment so it's going to be hard to prove it with beyond doubt but there's enough evidence around that i think
Speaker 3there is i think there is sufficient evidence and from nothing else we know how plastic the brain is until about 23 and we've got i think the numbers that i'd looked at from offcom was 30 percent of eight years old so i think that's a lot of evidence and we're seeing in terms of i know that there'd been a recent research study that looked at ai and the use of ai with i think they looked at university students and getting them to write essays some used ai some didn't and that they could already begin to see some impact on the brain structures of activity and actually their ability to recall what they'd written was significantly reduced when something else produced it
Speaker 2for them absolutely and and you know teachers talk about how kids you know need things in bite-sized chunks can't read a book anymore that kind of stuff so there's all i mean i think ai brings in a whole new level by the way of you know how we how we protect kids and and allow their brains to mature you know in a way which you know allows them to develop intellectual capacity you know that's a whole nother challenge but yes there have been a lot of excuses you can't help but think big tech has lobbied very well and very hard and obviously has almost infinite resource to do so and government is a bit scared of the trump administration etc etc but um but it would be a vote winner uh you know 60 of our users said they're more likely to consider a party that takes this issue seriously yeah so it's uh it's and it's pretty free to to implement so i think we're hopeful that we can get somewhere with government on this but we will keep batting away but meantime i think parents and i think it's a good thing that we're able to do that because parents have to try and take their own actions and it's much easier to do that
Speaker 3collectively than individually definitely and we will definitely share the links in the show notes they will be there so that we can go go and do that and we have seen that you know smartphone free childhood has the the power of parents that come together and what is interesting is when i talk to young people in schools whilst they will whinge and complain they are supremely grateful when the devices are taken away yes and
Speaker 2there was an interesting survey amongst gen z's so people have just gone through just left school yeah um who all think there should be restrictions and limits and and largely back a ban of social media till 16 so you know it's not just that um moral panic thing of the older generation i think kids themselves are saying it kids who've just been through it are saying it so we need to take action
Speaker 3and now we're going to take a quick pause for a word from our sponsors
Speaker 1therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough it shows up in the smallest moments you bite your tongue instead of escalating you put your phone down instead of firing off that text you say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most nobody applauds those moments but they quietly change your life that's what growing feels like and that's exactly what grow therapy is here for grow is therapy that works covered by insurance sessions average 21 with insurance and some pay as little as zero dollars depending on their plan there are no subscriptions no long-term commitments you just pay per session grow connects you with thousands of high quality licensed therapists across the u.s offering both virtual and in-person sessions nights and weekends you can search by what matters like insurance specialty identity or availability and you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days not the national 48-day average see if you could pay as little as zero dollars for therapy in seconds at grow therapy.com slash a cast that's grow therapy.com slash a cast grow therapy.com slash a cast availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan
Speaker 4with its abundant natural beauty charming towns and friendly people south carolina offers the kind of discoveries that stay with you long after you've had a chance to experience it after you've left like the realization you're good at something you never before tried or your first oyster roast and a taste you didn't expect to love and other times it just hits like the view on a windswept appalachian mountaintop so come find the undiscovered you in south carolina visit discover south carolina.com and i don't know
Speaker 3about you justine but certainly my 20 nearly 26 year old and my 19 year old and i don't know about you justine but certainly my 20 are both saying that their children are definitely not getting smartphones at all
Speaker 2and so they're well absolutely and i do feel sorry for parents who didn't have that lived experience we didn't know you know when we've you know maybe increasingly over time it's become slightly more obvious but when phones first started i'd be a miracle okay this is amazing look at the modes keeping my kids busy and occupied and they can learn things and google maps is amazing and being able to stay in touch is amazing they can talk to their friends which is really nice you know you just didn't know we hadn't lived through it ourselves and and that's really where our most of our parenting instincts come from is the fact you know we know that actually you're probably going to experiment with alcohol but when you're 15 but you know it's not the end of the world if you know if there are and stuff like that whereas we didn't know about the phone we hadn't used it we didn't know how addictive it was when and when it first started of course we didn't have social media and the
Speaker 3addictive algorithm and that's like i think the issues you say you know it's obviously it they're designed in such a way to constantly it's almost like a constant nudge excuse me excuse me don't forget about me and we know that those that design these in silicon valley their children are not allowed to access them at all they're not they're not using those platforms i mean i found out that
Speaker 2in 2012 i went over to stay with a friend who who was actually on the board of google she had a big party full of googlers and none of them let their kids have phones which you know my kids were running around with phones at that point so that's a big part of it and i think it's a big part of it that did make me think what's going on here they know
Speaker 3something i don't yeah yeah exactly and i think that it's quite important that we there's there's obviously some big campaigns that are now being put in place around lobbying government to legislate against mobile phones in schools and lots of schools will say that they have a ban on phones but what that often means is they're not allowed to have them out unless that's right that's not a ban no
Speaker 2see no hear is what yeah yeah and it doesn't work so we our research said 64 of secondary schools still allowed kids access to phone in school and most of our parents on mom's debt think that's hopeless it doesn't work at all and teachers hate it yeah i was talking to the head of the teachers union it was just saying it's impossible to teach because you know someone under the desk is not concentrating and it's it's a single thing i think that everyone has agreed on teachers professionals who who uh mental health professionals and parents that a ban of phone and complete ban of phone in schools would be a good
Speaker 3idea yeah and certainly for those schools that have taken that decision at the beginning of this no last academic year have seen significant improvements in terms of behavior but also because they're not worried about the notifications because every all their contemporaries are in the same situation as they are exactly so i think
Speaker 2that would be an amazing place to start i don't think it's enough because you know you walk out the school and everyone's got their head down in the phone straight away but it would be an amazing and better for teachers and better for learning so let's start with that for sure if that's the first step but it but it's an acknowledgement of how distracting and um disruptive phones are and once you've got that acknowledgement i think you know it's obvious to take the next step it helps parents as well say well look it's obviously not very good for
Speaker 3you yes and as you say having that power to communicate with other parents and work together because quite often we hear it all of the time like i'm the only one that's not allowed to have my mobile phone in my bedroom and i'm the only one who has to hand it back to you at 10 o'clock at night or whatever it might
Speaker 2be exactly i mean we are about to launch actually a smartphone for kids which is the first safe smartphone for kids so this is hot off the press um and it's going to be called the other phone and it offers both complete parental control of what any apps that are put on so you can choose to have whatsapp or not but more than that it's going to have an ai layer which filters out all bullying all harassment so complete parental control and we're testing with our users right now and they're delighted with it but it but it also if you want your kids to have an app that allows them to you know track their diabetes medication you can have all those things yeah um you can have you can have a level of scrutiny that is very very high or you can relax it a little bit so it puts the parent back in control which is the main thing very exciting do you be doing it in collaboration
Speaker 3with a particular we've we've we're in
Speaker 2collaboration with a company that makes incredibly cool really neat phones called um they're called nothing um i don't know if you've heard of them i hadn't but they're really cool and then um there's a really great company that's building all the ai low for us and the software so yeah and we are really excited to offer a product for people because there are a lot of parents out there who want their kids to i mean the main reason is they want to have a product for their kids and they want to have a product for their kids and they want to stay in touch they want to stay in touch and there are as we know there are an amazing range of apps that are incredibly useful on phones you know i've been nowhere without google maps i just wouldn't be able to do it i've completely lost the ability and i never had much to to find my way around so you know i think there is a happy medium but it will be the first phone designed with kids safety first absolute first in mind and parental control absolutely first in mind so and
Speaker 3that and it's the there's often the discussions isn't there well don't get a smartphone instead get a feature phone but the feature phones themselves have not really been developed in a way that gives the other more intuitive and the easily accessible yes the app
Speaker 2you need i mean these apps are great some of them are great and uh so you could have a smartphone that had everything but social media you could have a smartphone of one of the other phone which had social media for half an hour a day which you have complete control over and we these we've had kids testing it and they've had kids testing it and they cannot break through which of course is the other one i was going to say because they they usually find a workaround
Speaker 3but that is and it isn't why do you think nobody has really ever invested time and energy this is a global problem this isn't specific to the uk this is all over the
Speaker 2world because i think the model that you know the model has been about attention and advertising that's the model of the social media companies and i guess people were not as demanding yet the demand wasn't quite there because people weren't as aware of the dangers so i think it's been coming and you know our we're not that interested in making a lot of money out of it so we want to make a product that keeps kids safe and that's i think you know the margins on these things are not enormous so i suspect the reason usually it's profit that's driving this yes it will be and
Speaker 3that is and i you know i said to you before we started recording i genuinely believe that this is probably going to be quite defining for our generation and i think it's going to be quite defining for our generation in terms of parenting what we do and how we take action around this in the same way i've often made the analogy it's the same as smoking that we then subsequently find out oh my goodness me yeah it's causing all of this damage yes and i feel like hopefully we're waking and taking action yeah that bit
Speaker 2earlier and it and it is interesting it's a very interesting analogy that cigarette because you had the big the lobbying of the big tobacco companies you had governments slow to act because they didn't want to be nannying and all that kind of stuff and it basically and you had a very difficult to prove case because you know it takes a long time for people to die of lung cancer on the whole and you can't really force feed people cigarettes you know over there and um identical twins to not smoking over there so it's it's very similar and it took a long time and i'm i'm glad that we seem to be moving a little bit faster with this issue because you can't wait for all the fallout and and the class action that's inevitably coming by the way i think because meantime every day a kid is getting addicted a kid is you know having esteem issues a kid is having mental health problems well we're
Speaker 3seeing the numbers escalating in all aspects of self-confidence self-esteem and and the reality is that at some point these young people become adults that will then hopefully take their place in the workplace but where they're not equipped for that no and there
Speaker 2have been a lot of things going on haven't there there's been covid yeah you know there's globalization there's ai there's you know global warming lots of things to worry about but i think there've always been things to worry about it's just this generation we have more access to the things to worry about via via social media so you know add that kind of quite difficult world environment to the fact that you're getting these stimuli brain stimulations over and over again that as you say developing brains find very hard to not be molded by
Speaker 3really yeah so i think the fact that you're championing this is really amazing and just excited that we were first well first or maybe not the first but anyway to hear hot on the press about the phone so that is amazing just finally then from a within the mumsnet community now are there things that within the community they're finding is helping the smartphone challenge whilst we're waiting for government to act that seems to be top tips that they're having or quick wins the things that we've been seeing are
Speaker 2when whole classes so normally most people have a phone by the the child give their children a phone for that secondary school moment so it's the transition from primary to secondary school i think where what we're seeing more of is people saying well no whatsapp parents group we're all agreeing that we're not going to do that we're going to wait a year or we're going to wait two years and and it's that kind of collective thing that you could start engaging other parents with now some parents have a hard line they they think you know absolutely not that's not for me but all you need is a tipping point i think and then equally talking to the school about a ban in school talking to the school about more phse information to kids about how it's that these things are addictive by design because you know quite an interesting thing that happened with the smoking situation in america was um there was a big ad campaign directed at teens saying you're being exploited by big tobacco that worked really well stop teen smoking rates quite abruptly and i think you know if you it would be great to be able to do that with teens now and say you make them aware that actually they're just being exposed they they are they are being hung on a string or like a little rat on a wheel to keep their attention on these apps so they can profile them get their data sell them appropriate ads etc etc so i think that's quite a clever tactic the more we can talk to our kids about actually you don't want to be taken advantage of by these you know it's the big algorithm is is there to hook you but you're smarter than that i think that's quite an interesting route as well definitely because
Speaker 3it doesn't come from that oh parents being boring and lecturing and giving us a hard time yeah oh justine thank you so much for your time it's been so informative quickly yeah thank you cheers at harmony bank we believe that better happens together
Speaker 5we're a locally owned bank built on relationships and personally committed to your success our community bankers are ready to make quick decisions no big bank bureaucracy just a custom approach to help you thrive from business law to finance to business law to finance to business law to finance to business law to loans to mortgages and everyday banking needs harmony bank provides a secure modern experience with a touch of texas hospitality we're harmony bank where better happens together
PodcastTranscript AI