Racial Identity, Snitching/Plea Bargains, Overcoming Trauma, Maez' New Album | OUT OF POCKET - 011

Starting out & weirdo_gvng Back to those themes on the EP you know Speaker 2 uehara one more way. One more than another one more thing hold up. This is going to know you a little bit done for I like this, got nothing to do with anything. I just think it's like as this question and like understand what I'm saying is not disrespect. It's a genuine question because you black or white in Speaker 1 high school. I'll start again Speaker 2 was you black or white in high school? Speaker 1 That's a hard question, I'd say what? We would like to acknowledge the gadigal people who are the traditional custodians of the land, on which we are filming. This podcast, Speaker 2 the truth will set you free but first, it'll piss you off. Welcome everyone Speaker 1 to out-of-pocket podcast episode 11. Today is a bit of a special episode with doing something kind of different weren't Sydney actually and we're here for a very special guest Mac. He is a hip-hop artist and yeah hip-hop artist want to tell the people little bit about yourself man. Welcome thank you for coming on to the podcast and it's it's still too happy with that. This has been a long time coming. He said, yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean we hear you feel me so. Yeah. Amazing. Any also known as Chief Mays also known as just Chief, also known as just made out here. I feel everyone just calls me Maze and Sydney. Yeah, that's 100% my wife's fault actually introduced me. Yeah, this is amazing. Yeah, what do you prefer? I don't really care. My mom. Come you Mase? Speaker 1 Say, our really mind if he mama calls you that, and that's what you gonna Speaker 2 do really Speaker 1 well. Oh, we were just talking about the first time that we've met and it was Speaker 2 when you were performing at the Hamlet Speaker 1 with weirdo gang, do you want to sort of start there? Do you want to talk peoples Speaker 2 who we do game were or is so yeah, we're all getting is just like the group The the it was me my brother like musically was just me my brother Ike from Pluto and party at 11. We really started 100% by accident. Like yeah, yeah, it's like my brother. That's I, he wanted to make music like he had been rapping since like, honestly, like 14 or something like that. I used to make fun of him for it. I didn't think the wrapping was, like, I sing to you, could actually just do. Hmm. So, yeah, I used to make fun of him for it, and then, you know, just being around it. Like, I used to take him to the studio with our friend, his name's Jama. Is this in camera isn't caramel? Oh yeah this dude. This dude Jama. He actually like, he still rap right now but he's from Denver originally, but yes, I used to take him to like his house. We would record the ice, like, Freestyle bullshit, whatever one time like literally, I think was the first and second time that I could be in the studio Miracle, like just getting him to sing. I'll just started like freestyling and like we just recorded it, put it out, and it all kind of went from there. Speaker 1 They're very so you say oh so you were second out. Yeah. But I've been off though. Speaker 2 Oh yeah, I didn't I didn't really have any like I thought it was cool or whatever like I thought it would be interesting to do but Speaker 1 when did it sort of Click where you're like, I want to take this a bit more seriously. Speaker 2 Um, so like at the after you put out their first song, we got asked to do a show like to close out a show for that that you know, that was for Genesis was suicide. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. This is Speaker 1 way. And yeah, let's say You guys 2016 2016 again Speaker 2 I'm like I was home like fresh out of high school at this point I'd like being kicked out of high school you know yeah yeah we'll get to that. Speaker 1 Ya gotta be to talk about that Speaker 2 we're not stupid as shit about like you know I'm boxing and stuff like at this point in time. Oh now she got to actually yeah. Yeah I got like we got asked to do the show. I'd never really written a song, anything. But it was just like let's just you know we're just doing this one song. So did the one song we got asked like oh you guys you a group like can you do this now? It was just like, yeah. For sure like whatever and who knows you three? Yeah. And then like, we get back home like me and my brother and I'm just like, yeah, I would like never ridden like a song before like yeah we got this like start working from outside. Like Yeah. From there. Like I just I just started writing. Yeah, it was doing shows. It was cool. So yeah there, once I like busting my arm off of boxing and I was like alright cool. So I guess I got to kind of double down and Speaker 1 soda. I'm from an injury you started like that was sort of. Speaker 2 Yeah because I was doing shows all the time that's a fart and I did not realize that was not normal. So I thought it was just normal that we was getting asked to do a show. I was gonna sorry likewise a month. Yeah. So I was like yeah cool. Like you know, we get a little money or whatever like Yeah from me, I'm like, doing whatever I'm doing in the streets and, you know, Speaker 1 that's crazy that you started out just doing shows because I'm sure there's a lot of artists that have plenty of songs. And they've done it for years and they're like, still don't want to either do shows or they can't or to just struggle to get gigs. Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing because like the whole economy for like, artists music. Yeah. It's 100% about how can you sell tickets? Can you be a name? Like, hey, food industry and like, you know, most people. They just inviting their friends when they first start out. And like, that's not a sustainable business model because like, for sure your friends will come out to your first ever show. They'll be like, yeah, what, yeah. What you done it or not? Yeah. But you know, then it's the second show and you know, it's like, oh yeah, for sure. We're going to come out. Then that's something that's in the third show and it's like, but I kind of scene. Shit before. Yeah I'm saying like you know so we can you feel me? I want Speaker 1 to Unity improperly book. Yeah. Speaker 2 So yeah, I think the only reason why we could get booked like so often was just because people are kind of it's like he was like looking at us and we was bringing some of those like different you saying like a lot of camber at that point in time was just like old-school very like, you know, super duper Ozzie. Ozzie rabbit. What do Speaker 1 you think was different? Just the sound or like the whole sort of pack like everything your whole Speaker 2 energy? It was a solderer. As energy all jetliners seeing like three young Speaker 1 dudes, like onstage, doing hip-hop halls and get. This is sick like I'm like a rap grippy and ran for anyone that not yet for anyone? That doesn't know camera. Like that's like wild. Yeah. Say that like, that's like people, like, damn, you can really like, like Jesus saying the same thing? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, definitely. It's that sort of next wave. So skip forward now how many how often do do shows Speaker 2 right now? Like obviously covid kind of missing a little bit, so, Like right at the start of covid, or like right before calls it, we had had, like, we were already like pre-booked for like, on are like, 10 shows as a group. So this is early 2020. Then Kobe hit every single show gets canceled. And we kind of like step back reassess and we were just like you know where we I don't feel like we are all making the music that we want to make. I feel like you know we all kind of pulling these different directions and you know we can try to do the whole so we'll do like one song with this and what but it felt it's easy to just kind of break it all up from like you know career standpoint and like everyone kind of focus on the oncoming only kind of thing. Yeah plus I was living in Melbourne. The time my brother was living in Sydney at the time Speaker 1 and asked about that. How do you do that? You really like how do you record and how do you sort of collab when you that distance? Speaker 2 I mean, that's not really hard. It's not like no, it's not really hard. Like if you know the people well unlike you understand each other's Vibe with you, obviously we do it's not hard to dislike record and you know send the Speaker 1 It's like I'm sure it's a different energy when you hold together. Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, 100% 100%. Plus I, you know, the, the other part of it was just like a natural growth. Like, you know, when we started out like the vibe of the group was like, you know, my brother IQ was kind of the, you know, he was like, the more creative one, because he was the one that really, really wanted to do it. And, you know, yeah party. And he was like, he's obviously use the vocalist. He's a singer. Yeah, you know, he's like he likes to dance and like do I shit like being like Chris Brown fan? Yeah. Yeah. And then there was just me and I was just kind of like you know I can rap and I can do all that stuff. Feel like um a much more kind of like low-key like reserved person. Yeah, so it doesn't it didn't necessarily like translate. What I wanted to do through like in front of like you know at a show whatever I can. But then behind the scenes, I would end up kind of defaulting into like running Studio sessions because I was just like, bro. Like I don't have the attention span for this like yeah, we need to, we need Sit down and actually get this shit done. Speaker 1 I'll see you at the studio situation. Like, how do you go about getting studio time? Or do you do it all yourself? Like how do you Speaker 2 so at first we was recording like I said with my like a friend Java, then we started recording a place called Street Street University that was in the city. After that my brother like, you know, we had like gotten a little money from, like shows or whatever else was doing and you know, we Set up our own like Studio. I said, I got situation. He's wrong. So yeah, exactly. Exactly money guy. He's going to let a lot. Yeah. Like, it was kind of the only option at a certain point because, you know, I'd like a public like shared Studio space. You don't really know, like, how much time you can really get. And yeah, it was just much easier. Just having this Speaker 1 price is like a stressful part of like making, like, like obviously song by song, but making a body of work, like an album like studio time. Just like essential. Speaker 2 Oh, see. That's the funny part because I don't really take too much time in the studio like me personally, Speaker 1 myself. Yeah, I guess everyone's different. I like some people need to be in their face, Speaker 2 ever. Yeah, see, I don't like, I don't be riding in the studio. Speaker 1 The all. Yeah, you got to come prepared. Speaker 2 Yeah. Like it looks at someone else's thing like someone else's session or whatever, like an essay yet, just coming in five, like, you Speaker 1 know, so you have your, you have your shit written you going. Lay it down? Yeah, yeah, sure. Okay. Speaker 2 Yeah. Like, I wrote everything that I did for this project, I wrote in life, I want to say, Like two weeks or something like that. Speaker 1 Really. Oh, wow. That's quick. Yeah, that is come straight out and you just like, Speaker 2 yeah. I feel like part of the reason why I couldn't write that off in. Like I feel like a lot of like rappers like like real like rapper rappers that have been like doing this shit since I was like, you know, 12 13 or whatever. They'd be like. Yeah, I'll write every day or every week or whatever. Like I can't do that. I don't know how people do that. Yeah like yeah, that's why we're like we're not cash it. Like he's like literally like when I catch it just it comes out Maez’ Creative Process easy. Yeah. Like we'll get to it in a bit but we're listening to some of. Would you call it an album? Or like a more of an EP? I'll call it up'. Yeah. So listen Speaker 2 to a word, like it doesn't really matter. Like Speaker 1 yeah, it doesn't really matter either way, Speaker 2 it's the body of work, it was all on streaming Speaker 1 like yeah correct. Yes. I was about five songs followed by light short interludes and we're listening to it on the way up we'll go into more depth soon but what I was going to say is you just catch a few flows on it and I can tell you just like that's like that, that sort of Flow State, like, I ran some bits back and was like, war of losing to this. Like you just hit a lie. Like, yeah, we were, yeah, Speaker 2 we were driving and we'll just like listening to this. I'm vibing out and then this guy would just look at me and be like, did you catch that flow? He just like rewind it back. And I'm like, Speaker 1 yeah, I want to wrap a light but it's so when an artist like so did you hit? You know you can tell a few bars string together just effortlessly you like you know they just hit that like that. Perfect. Speaker 2 Spot of us are like that and this best 107 what it is and like I'm really like meticulous when I write. I like yeah. So - our car like a profession is like like It is like a profession, this but not in like a bad way because like, there's like a perfectionist where it's really, you're not actually a perfectionist. You're just someone this like you afraid of what people will think. So, yeah, you convince yourself everything you do is not really good enough because you're like, but people would like Speaker 1 and then there's a human meticulous Speaker 2 in. Yeah, that's why I use the word meticulous because it's like, this is literally how I write. Like, most of the time, I like, whenever I start, like, I catch the vibe. I'm feeling it. All right, maybe like it. On beat, sometimes there's a whole verse. And sometimes it's like only like four bars and then I'll be like, okay, stop go back wrap the entire thing. See, if you see if it actually goes together correctly or not cool, then I might add one bar. Then go back to the beginning, wrap the entire thing. Again at another bar and then I might catch another thing at a few. Have to go back to the beginning. Again Speaker 1 like it's like it's something that people don't often notice its decadence like you can have a whole set of bars perfectly written out but something can just be off. Yeah, and you've got a lot of like Melodies and in what we listen to like, there's a lot of more, I guess. Let's just bar after bar and more like Cadence involved with it. Yeah. So that's something that you can't really see on paper. I guess. You got to actually wrap it and like, you exactly what Speaker 2 sounds. Yeah, exactly. Like, like, I kind of say, like, I don't even really right? Like, my best versus, like my best versus. I'm literally, I don't think I don't stop. It's just like it just kind of comes out. And then I look back at it on the side, okay. I don't know how I wrote that, but Speaker 1 yeah, it's like cruise control. Speaker 2 Oh yeah, but then like you know, when it comes to stuff this a bit more conda personal like that's that's where I'm kind of going. Like one line at a time. Laughter back, the other line wrap it back. Yeah. Speaker 1 I wanted to touch on. So obviously you're meticulous with your writing, but the themes in the album, you know, you've got police brutality. You've got your childhood and your upbringing. Why those things in this sort of /? Sorry. Can we get to that soon? You want to get to that heavy as shit later? Performing With A Broken Back Yeah. Can you ask him what you were telling me you like He played a gig through injury or something. Always say, oh Speaker 2 you played it. You played a gig with we do Speaker 1 gang. It was like a combat gig or something and you had a vertebra injury because I was, I remember looking at the video. I was like, yo, I like this guy's like chess vest strap thing, it looks dope. And then I read the bio and I was like, oh shit, Speaker 2 you had a vertebrae injured. Yeah, my my my L3 L4 vertebrae it was fractured. Yeah. Exotic car accident because I remember like losing to one of your kids actually. Watch the show. So I remember listening to, like, one of your You're thinking, I'm sorry. Like you said, you had like, you got T-boned or whatever. Speaker 1 Yes, I thought shit. Speaker 2 Yeah, you should. Yeah. I used talking about near-death experience. Yeah. And I was just like, that's right. I was just like, that's a boring, your death experience, Speaker 1 whatever. But like, yeah. But what happened to yours if you don't mind Speaker 2 me? Asking I pretty much the exact same thing T-Bone. Yeah, T-Bone on the freeway like those doing like 80 Speaker 1 that's fucking crazy man. Speaker 2 And do don't like when the cops put out there was like oh yeah bro. Like Most of the times when we hear that we're expecting to see a body. Yeah, below. So, you Speaker 1 know, you just feel like a obviously that's pretty serious. Speaker 2 I'm gonna know. My back was broken, either. I only knew and I like I went to the hospital because my mom was like, no, you gotta get chicks clothes like those, I feel fine. Like, I'm sorry a little stiff. Like, you know, Speaker 1 saying looks like got some KT, Speaker 2 B en masse like this. I was so confident I went to the hospital, you know, they're doing like they check up. I'm like cool that you know, tests my moving saw that. Yeah. The only reason they felt something was off because like Like one of my legs are slightly weaker than the other they said and I was like, all right, in their Speaker 1 life and what do you have to do to? Like, rehab? It Speaker 2 odd. Nothing, I just have to wear that back brace and just not fucking bend. My back for sure, in for eight weeks Speaker 1 and you decided to do the show, just you just like, fucking, Speaker 2 I mean, it was already booked so, you know, Speaker 1 it's already full, they're going back Speaker 2 injury so many times, it's not even funny. Like, yeah. Like when I do my had my first shorter reconstruction, when I was 19, I was like before and several times in a sling. Speaker 1 Sure, that you back, like, I'm like, I'm trying to think of like, what's the most important body part to just get through a show, right? You back know that, that even back, that shoulder reconstruction was that injury from boxing that the yeah? Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 And then I did it again, like, in December. Speaker 1 You still boxing? Yeah, Speaker 2 yeah, yeah, I am. But my body's betraying me Speaker 1 bitch, how much of amateur career, Speaker 2 all seen some videos? I don't know, would you call 72 57 jerker like I'm okay. Okay. Speaker 1 Yeah, so you've been doing it since young obviously? Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah, Izzy. One, National Championship, four, five, five, state Speaker 1 championships and what weight Speaker 2 middle the middle. I always say, even middle. Speaker 1 Maybe, Cruiser Speaker 2 Cruiser ways way to be a Speaker 1 browse gonna say he's coming just on. Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm bro, I'm like 75 kilos middle in diameter is is is 75 and you walk around that? Well right now I'm like 75%. Oh Speaker 1 really. So you write on Speaker 2 your truth? I was I was a bit bigger than that before but obviously like after I had Speaker 1 so you probably get down to probably get down what's just below middle? Speaker 2 There's like so as light middleweight be like. So in the pros in the pros, away classes slightly different. So, Midway in the prose is about, 72 is a lot less is about 72, right? It's like, it's easier to translate into pounds because that's how it was made in. But like, yeah, for the sake of keeping it simple. Yeah. It's about 72 in the, in the pros for middleweight, the you have a 24-hour way and so the amateurs is like on the day in the morning, you go. Uh, yeah. So yeah, you can't cut as Speaker 1 much, right? Yeah. Because the price get 24 hours to just yeah, I drain. Yeah, yeah, and do you follow boxing Speaker 2 or do you just? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 I just some people just box and they don't follow Speaker 2 me. Ya know, there's a lot of that especially here. I feel like it's just because there's not a lot of like there's not a lot like a big big like I wants a big scene but there's like not a very well-known like that big boxing kind of who Speaker 1 you are. He got came buses. So tiny Speaker 2 look. I'm a kid. I want to myself feel like that's happening today, right? Or Speaker 1 tomorrow, it's soon. Yeah. Yeah. Is that Speaker 2 smart to stream that shit? Speaker 1 Yeah. That's the Marty gonna you not going to comment on that one. I mean like okay, you gotta go for the Homegrown you could have campuses. Speaker 2 I mean, wow. What like I'm not saying I'm not, I am, or I'm not, I'm saying, like, why do I have to? I don't know. Right, put it on easy from Sydney. Here's but I am not from Sydney. I'm from Montreal from camera out of here. Speaker 1 So, who do you think, you know, going to say Speaker 2 What I'm saying you're like is this is interesting. The way you said that like what is it specifically because Australians do this. Speaker 1 Yeah I got like Speaker 2 what is his why what about him is it? That I have to I automatically have to be going for him just because we're both from Australia. Like what Speaker 1 again? We sank everything Speaker 2 is really make sense. Speaker 1 Yeah. I would think that he'd be like good for boxing in Australia. Speaker 2 No 100% he is and that's was like a conversation Speaker 1 series saying we do that, we do that. I'd like Speaker 2 look if he won, if you And that would be good for boxing and Australia. However, if you lost, he has a rematch clause in Australia, like if I had to have an Australia. So if he lost, but it's a close fight and then they fight again, there will be even more interest to Second Time Around. Yeah. So that could potentially be even a bigger event, is a good-sized gonna happen. Yeah, so it's like this is not even I wouldn't even say it's like a bad thing for Australian boxing for him to lose. It would be a bad thing for Australian, boxers are completely fucking wiped out. Ya know, be like, you know one, you know, like a woman I wonder, you know, kind of a thing. Yea, but yeah, I'll out of stuff. But I can get into like extremely like deep kind of technical box. Speaker 1 Yeah, we're gonna be able to keep all of that. Um, do you wanna touch and your brother? Just real quick? Because I saw a video that he posted was he was a proper bout. It was his sparring with the oh yeah. Amateur heavyweight. That was yeah. That was a real fight. That's crazy. Yeah. That was real fight and he was gone. Yeah. I'm like damn I'll Speaker 2 send you the full video. All right. Yeah, crazy. Have that so yeah, I mean Speaker 1 does he want to go pro eventually or Speaker 2 so? His goal is the Olympics, but I, you can have him also like to tell you about all these. Yeah. So, Speaker 1 and for the Olympics, you have to be a mature, you can ya get back on the music but um, did you want to any particular one? Were You Black Or White In High School ? The last night? Yeah, just just those those back to those themes on the EP, you know, you Speaker 2 hold on one more way. One more. No, no good. One more thing harder. This is going to know you a little bit done for it. I like this. Got nothing to do with anything. I just think it's like, I just question and like understand what I'm saying is not disrespect. It's a genuine question. Cuz you black Speaker 1 or white high school. I'll say it again. Speaker 2 Was you black or white in high school? Speaker 1 That's a hard question. I'd say what? Speaker 2 Better. How about you? And I was I was black. I was definitely the black kid. Where are you? Everybody who you were? Black eyes like the blanket. He's so black. Now, Speaker 1 I'm still black. Now Speaker 2 I'd ever say she is direct. Would you say like 75 were like percent or detail? Speaker 1 And I mean if we're in the percentages, I'd say. That's all. That's all. We're still power on the 80s, man. Speaker 2 I'm Hades. Are ya, what would you say? *** right Speaker 1 now but it's a hard question especially for me because obviously you've watched the Speaker 2 Pod. Yeah. I did the other part here and before you kicked off, see on boy because you hate women but Speaker 1 I gotta say that he's joke out of my coat Speaker 2 pocket does not like with me but it's not care about black women Speaker 1 but no that's AA question for me personally because I was raised by white people. Yeah. That's actually real tricky. One for me because I honestly don't know I Speaker 2 feel like that's just That's why I had to say it was not disrespect. Not the reason I asked the question right there. You don't ask question is because I've noticed something that I didn't notice when I was like in school myself, like the way I was raised. It was like your black. Don't even think about get like my dad used to literally tell me like every day before school. And this is like, it sounds stupid as fuck, feel like it's real thing. He would be like stay black and then you know, you get out the car, going to school and like I didn't really know exactly what he meant by that, but I was just kind of like, I guess the way I took it was like, don't let you know this like Australian, you know, cultural that, don't let that become your identity and how you identify yourself. So you know, if you like assimilate like Speaker 1 instruments. Yeah. He didn't want you to assimilate, did Speaker 2 he know? Not really. Yeah. He wanted me to be able to like move around and she like that. Like yeah. Because like, you know, I'd like I've talked about it before, like I did use like code switch and everything. You know. Yeah. Just as a way to like, oh yeah, notnot like not even in. Trying to blend in more of like a I wasn't trying to be like a fucking mascot like, you know what I'm saying? Like the talking. So yeah. Speaker 1 So basically when you asked me that my mind just switches to do. I feel black or do people perceive me as black? So that's a really tricky one because Speaker 2 I mean like, obviously visually. It's not, you know. Yeah like that that aggressive thing. Like I don't tell people, oh, you're not really black like, like visually it's not really a choice that you have correct but I uh, I just mean sort of more like from a cultural perspective like because I feel like adulthood like forces you to actually come to terms with all of that, but it just kind of depends when it when it happens for you. So Speaker 1 like, do not, I honestly can't answer that. Like the way I answered, when I said, no, it's like, do I like I'll sleep in and out of, like, feeling black or not? Feeling black. I feel like sometimes I like, remember I'm black and that's not to like, it's not like some pity party logo, remember I'm black. I like, like I just honestly, just forget. Yeah. I don't know, maybe that's just like lack of self-awareness but I honestly probably more internally. I don't feel black per se. I feel like that's a white either bit. Speaker 2 Well, I wouldn't see, that's the thing. Why people don't feel like that's like, yeah, but like I'll say it like this in like, here's how I'm hearing it. I think that you was raised, you know, not being like taught these like very kind of specific things. Like you know, all you got to watch out for this and that like you know your parents probably just wanted you to be. Happy like they didn't want to raise you with like this burden. Yeah, she like that. And like do you know it's a genuine like thing that you know, they were trying to do. Obviously they love you. They got good parents. Yeah, you know, but it's so the good like side of it is obviously you haven't had like some extremely like crazy traumatic experience racism that's made you like completely like shifting your perspective or anything like that. So you do kind of have like a bit of an advantage there where it's like your mind is free. Like you don't think all I can't do this because I'm this, you know what I'm saying? Like you don't think all if I do this will I be, you know what, people look at me like I'm a sellout or I'm just saying that, you know what I mean? Yeah, and that's not even a bad thing. That's actually a good thing. It's actually something that I want for everyone eventually. But you know, for, you know, say if you kind of like raising like a black household is it can be a little bit different. And like, even like you can take it, like different levels, like You know, if you raised in a like immigrant like household, like African household is going to be very different for me if you raise and like a Black America. Also for example. Yeah, right. Yeah, so I wore if like, obviously like you, you know, being like nor Sydney's everything like you said, like your mom like yeah, it's like, so there's going to be certain things that you encounter the, your mom never encountered in her childhood, for sure. Yeah. So, you know, like she doesn't even have like, the fools. Scope of like being black in Speaker 1 like because in a like Speaker 2 you know why question country? Yeah. So you know that like that's a whole different thing like you know obviously those - sighs this feel like I kind of had that benefit a little bit because like my dad he was raised in like American International Schools like lived in like many different countries and different places like throughout the world and his childhood. Just because if it's like Dash driving everything so he Understood what Blackness was not just on like a skin tone level with, like, on a cultural level as in blackness in a non black space. So him being able to like pass it on to me. And like, give me like that kind of understanding of myself made it much easier for me to understand what was happening to me, when, you know, I would like get fucked with. Speaker 1 Like, I want to understand this more actually because a few weeks ago, which commonly can happen over message. We had like a tiny misunderstanding. Yeah, I was just like I said something, and you took a different way, but she certainly message and it was actually interesting. You said, listen, and you're calm and you are nonchalant. He said, listen for your black butt but I'm like, I forget how exactly you're in. That's right. Yeah. And I like played it to war if I was like what I want to know exactly what you like means by that because I get it like, you're black, obviously, I'm black. Yeah, we are. But but but there's a difference, like the obviously is a difference to the way, people are raised, and the way people are actually how they are not just perceived by how they Speaker 2 We are yeah. Well I mean see like what I said, what I meant by that is like, is this kind of like a The way there, I think why are you Blackness? And the way they kind of associate that with, you know, poverty and you know, crime and things like that. It's a very natural thing for them to disassociate. If you're black, then you must know, you know, you know, this type of person. Yeah, the for me like obviously, you know, like, for all of us we are actually black, you know. So we know, like, we know black nerd, That would fucking faint if they ever saw. Like I'm not Speaker 1 drop the shit. Yeah, I'm going through. And you know what I'm saying? I guess that sort of parlays into your upbringing and you touched on it a little bit there, but whatever you comfortable. Obviously, I get the sense that you've, you know, you've been through some shit and I've listened to your your EP and there's it's for when you do drop it, people are going to, you know, get a good sort of taste of just a small taste of what you've been through. So, whatever you're comfortable with, what kind of made you who you are today, like, Speaker 2 oh, I want to learn worried as go for it work because I put them off Maez’ Unreleased EP & Upbringing before. No, no, that's all good. Well, we were talking about how you with your writing, your very meticulous but I sort of wanted to ask you with the overall theme. That sort of keeps coming back in that EP you kept touching on some pretty pretty serious topics. A lot of them are now, I'm thinking about Blackness, I'm a lot of those topics to you. Obviously have a lot to do with Blackness, put a police brutality in America. You mentioned that things about Eric Garner and Mike Brown you also touched on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Domestic violence within within like the household. I wanted to know why you chose those sort of topics is the theme or like the overarching theme for your for this, for this Speaker 2 project. So low, Is not, it wasn't even really like a choice. Like you know what I'm saying? Like it was just kind of what I was feeling in the moment. So obviously at the time that I wrote it Sydney was in a lockdown. I was like not able to really do shit go anywhere or anything like that. So you know it which is cool for me. Like I don't mind that like I actually kind of like chilling. I just mean in the house and then like I don't want to like snitch for like so someone that someone like close to me like something very, very close. To me basically it told me like I was you know I was just chilling here dudes pulled up there was like, do you know, you know, will do out and he's like why do the hot out knives? Started like started chasing my trying to poke him up. I'm like yeah. Speaker 1 And like sorry to cut you off. On one of your trashy, talk about tech town of pace on you. Always and like the the course of the song is like about Karen that pace on you. Speaker 2 Yeah, you know I'm saying little little toy. Speaker 1 And then in the interlude, you like, when we pull up the party's Speaker 2 not anymore? I'm legal now. Speaker 1 All right, going. Just just to just to my likely, but when you pull up to parties, you always have that pace on you just just in case something to pop off. Speaker 2 Exactly. So like, you know, when like, when you know, like I got told that and I'm like, in lockdown, and I'm like, over here and I can't go on like do anything like, you know, because when you told me this are you told me over the phone, I'm just II. Cool, like, shut everything down. Like you stay in the house. You work out like you work out, who can Get like who the move word? And blah, blah blah like IMA come through. Fuck I'm a break the lock down. Like I'm just I'm just come like we can put, we gonna do all this in. Like, you know, obviously I didn't do that but like how like quickly like my brain went into that mode and then like I heard the beat and I was like the first track, like I heard the beat. I'm just like, cool and I didn't realize I was doing the time, but I was just like, vending like, you know, cuz my mind was like stuck like for like a whole week like stuck in like this space and I'm just like, Yeah. Like you know like I'm still that like let me let me just go ahead of the situation because I think if I if I like leave it to somebody else, hang on. Do it right? You know what I mean? And you know from there the next track I wrote was like the last one and we're all started because I had kind of pull back on the site Y is like that. My first reaction know what I mean Speaker 1 especially since you've already had that challenge which most people won't go through in their life at all, but actually having the possibility facing time and I won't give Anyway, we dance. Yeah, yeah. And the one you reference in it, which kind of hit me. I was like damn like that predicament you were in where it's just the unfairness of like life. It sounds really cliche, but we're something that have been repeatedly done. You was flipped and suddenly, you're facing the repercussions that that other person never was. Yeah. So and you were facing like real time. So it's just like, how do you how does that change your mindset as you can draw? Speaker 2 So, with that, like, You have to realize, like, most of the time, when people do, like this type of shit, like when people is like traumatized like that, you know, yeah, they've been through like certain situations like that. But most people get violent when most people get active, it's like, it's always a reaction is never like a thing, this like be thought through like in its shot. It sounds like it is because I'm like talking about how I was like, yeah, do this dude. Yeah, I thought of all this instantly on the spot like in the moment, right? And I'm like, you know, the only planet is going through my head and it's like this extended State of like anxiety and anger where I'm just like, you know I have to do this or you know, someone could get hurt or you know or people think they can like so it was like your flight or fight response. Correct. I have a fight or kill respond. Speaker 1 Yeah. Why don't you not? Yeah, and that's just a knee-jerk reaction based on the way you were raised Speaker 2 Connor. Yeah. Like, you know, it's weird because when I'm like, calm and, like, I think about it, I'm just like, you know, I would never tell Buddy to do that as like, you know, I would never advise anybody to, you know, carry out shit that way. But that's kind of, you know, scientists like a challenge that I've had to kind of address like more recently like, you know how? Even me like a very thoughtful person. I can definitely be like a slave to my emotions and you know try to kind of think things through a bit more noun like slow myself down and be like, alright, cool. Like you know, this is how you feel, this doesn't mean that's actually what you should Speaker 1 do. Yeah. And that's, that's it, seems like it's been pretty rapid for you that growth because, you know, you still very young man. And obviously, you've had a lot of changes in your life. Like, you're married, man. Now things like that. So it's that sort of progressed that that sort of because a lot of people this takes them years and probably decades to learn, you know. Speaker 2 Yeah, I know 100% like I'm very like aware and like thankful and like blessed that you know I've been able to make a lot of the steps that I've made over just the last few years like you know having my my wife and my life like that's being like a big blessing, not even it is more that she challenged me to be better more than anything else. Like She would just kind of go like, all right, certain things like, I'm not going to accept that, you know what I mean? Like, like she would just see me like out here about something like, you know. So I happened to someone, I know, and I would just like being the house, like, mad as fuck. Like, you know, she'd be like, what's wrong? I'd be like talking about it. Like, you know, she'd see me like get animated, get mad. And she's just like that. No. Like, yeah. Where we can talk about these things but like, you know once you start getting like that that shit is scary. Yeah. And you know, Like At first, I was kind of like offended by it because I was just like, how the fuck is you going to say you scared when, you know, you know, I'm not mad at you but it's like the body language and everything and you know, it's like oh you look like you're about to fight somebody on like, you know, and that song I like observed in the psyche. Oh yeah. It's not bodies. Like automatically starts preparing to actually like fight without an actual thing. Being present to need to fight Speaker 1 Sorry if you have. Do you have a question? No no no. I was going to say that. That pretty much perfectly describes the you'll fight or kill response. Yeah, I was going to ask, obviously, if you've gone through periods where you we just spoke about your like dealing with anger and dealing, with retaliation things like that. When you go and retaliate, it obviously gives you a certain feeling. It might not make you feel like fulfilled or whatever. But when you make music, and when you express yourself and talk about these things, does it give you some sort of like Do you feel better after you talk about this stuff? Speaker 2 I don't know like that. That's a hard question because I mean, like, I spent like years of my life like completely like dissociating from like, you know, not reality. But like just my emotions are how I felt. I was like, we all feel bit. I would not really be kind of in tune or in a line with like how I actually felt so and that that was like in that period of time that's when I started making music. So at first, like At first like when I first started making music, I was like I was like rapping about some like Goofy. Like I didn't want anyone to kind of know, like what I was going Speaker 1 through as most people do. I doubt. Most people are like have that sort of man. It takes a lot of things to be able to just lay it down. Exactly how you feel with, like, no bullshit. Yeah, Speaker 2 like the first time, I think I ever like really do. So I says, I'm sure it was like a song called Loki, like we do like we do gang. It did and like people like reaction says, I yeah. Like that first hard monster. Sorry. Okay. Like let me kind of like lean into this. But yeah, I would say play certain songs like Certain songs they kind of make me. Leaving Trauma In The past I want to say they make me feel better does writing the song but the process of like analyzing you know myself in you know being honest like what I'm actually saying like that that makes me feel. It's like a cathartic experience. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm kind of releasing like a lot of a lot of shit like I'm you know I think I don't know this short would like I think I might like to the point where I've like let go of the things. Going to happen to me, and, like my siblings and my mother, and, like, stuff from my father, like, haven't been say, like, I've forgiven it, but I like, I've let go of it. Like, I don't, I'm not letting that be the kind of catalyst for, you know, a lot of this shit because like, even like boxing and things like that, like, and just like, the way I live my life. Like I kind of like modeled myself as like what I thought my father was supposed to be, you know what I mean? Like because you kind of like, sold me on this like, idea of like, you know, manhood and like All these like, you know, ideas like so like for context my day he grew up. So my grandfather was a professor. My grandmother, she's like, PhD and headed. Yeah. So he grew up like pretty well for like a kid, like Africa. Like, you know, I and I say African not because I don't know countries. In Africa, I say Africa because he grew up in multiple countries, okay, yeah. So you know, People that don't know, their geography and think that Africa is a country. Yeah, I know you people exist. I know you could cook. Yeah, I'm Des not an excuse. You used to need to learn your countries would be. Yeah. Speaker 1 So he grew up pretty well off. Speaker 2 Yeah. And be like, he just kind of, you know, like and I'm not saying my grandparents is like Angels or whatever. You know, they like abandoned. I was like 16 years old, she but like, he had like opportunities and shit to, you know, Advance his life and make it better. Especially like moving to Australia everything like he had plenty of chances and like you know my grandparents were mocking my mother side and everything like you know they helped him out like every kind of helped him out. I was there when he like got his citizenship I remember that. Like everyone was like working till I give my dad like the best chances he possibly could but he just couldn't get over her like his own traumas and he's like on stuff, you know and he would kind of summary on these ideas of like you know, because I think I think he wanted me to be like tough because I knew I didn't have like the cushioning that he had, right? So he was like, you know, telling me okay? Like if you get into a fight like, on the street like you, you know, you can't just like, boom, boom, boom like scrapping and leave it. Like you don't know what's going to happen. You have to make sure that person thinks that can never ever ever come back you again. Or they called I like you need to like these ideas, my head in like I'd like idealize. Just like yes this is like this is how you carry yourself, like this is you know and then me realize Going where? Because like from like what you was kind of talking about before like when me and him like eventually like got into a fight and not knocked him out like keeping Mom. I'd never hit this dude, like, ever before. That's right. Speaker 1 Setting just to reiterate, this is your father talking about. Yeah. And you said that your photo be more even. Speaker 2 Well, yeah, that's the thing, like I thought, you know, I'm thinking myself, liar, mmm. You know, 20 like we're not 20 but like 16 years of abuse. And then, you know, another four years of Um, kinda, like mental torment and, like, bullshit like that. I figure one punch, like, yeah, I figure one punch makes us, you know, makes us close to even, yes, I still think it's, you know, a little more on his side. But yeah, of course. Yeah, you know, his response was, I'm go to the police and like I'm ruined your whole life and obviously it didn't, you know, that didn't end up happening because, you know, all I had me that day but Speaker 1 yeah, yeah, that's me, yeah, Speaker 2 but yeah. So like, when that happened I was just Like fuck like you know I need to I need her like really, really like start thinking things through because you know, that me just like having this assumption that people is going to do the same thing that I was going to do that. Almost like got me in like real real big trouble because like yeah yeah, yeah you like it would have been Speaker 1 bad so that's kind of going back to what you said about. You learn to just leave that stuff in the past because Unlike what your dad did, it sounds like he sort of hung on to that shit and then just passed it on to, you Speaker 2 know. Yeah, exactly like and that's like something I've talked about with like my friends would be into, like similar. Things like trying not to pass these things on like it's, you know, it can be hard not to sometimes because like, it's a very like human thing like you want to be understood. Yep. Of course, you know what I'm saying and you feel like no one can understand you unless I actually know what you've been through. It's like a certain degree. Yeah. So and you know, you can hear about it. But it's like, you know, we know they're like these people. Like like things happening like all over the world right now, we're all aware of those things. We might even seem like a video of seeing some like, you know something, but it's not the same thing as like actually going through it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So it's just kind of thing where we want to kind of create like another. Another person that gets it. Ye and it is really like is evil. Like is it evil thought to have it at the same time? It's very human as well. He's just like it's really just comes down to the basis of everyone wants to be understood and you know what I mean? Everyone wants people to Feel like feel, what they feel and, like, have some camaraderie, but like, I'm with like my wife now and she's like, you know, she doesn't have that. Like she has had like a good life. Great parents. Like, loving parents, you know, and Speaker 1 he got understanding each other's lives. Speaker 2 Yeah. Like and, you know, it comes to like ahead. Sometimes you're just like, yeah, you know, I want to approach things in different ways of how she does being a understanding that this is, you know, there are plenty of Virtues. I I have to have absolutely nothing to do with any of that stuff. Yeah that I can pass on without having to pass on the bad stuff. Speaker 1 Yeah. Because I guess if you only hung around and ended up I'll say like in an alternate universe or something, you ended up marrying, someone exactly like the same upbringing, you had I guess it wouldn't exactly like, I'd be more comfortable because you completely understand each other in that way. But it doesn't exactly promote growth. Because, you know, you can understand that Speaker 2 anything like, yeah. Like, you know, cuz I kind of I was used to Like in previous relationships, I was used to being the ambitious one. Yeah, if that made sense like, you know, a lot of people like in Canberra, especially like, you know, outside of like a few people. Most people is not that ambitious, most people's like, you know, they think that Canberra is like the full scope of like, what they can be Speaker 1 very comfortable play. It's very easy to get Speaker 2 comfortable. It's like, whatever, whatever your parents are. Like, that's like the best case scenario for you can be or maybe just a little bit above that, right? So, you know, I was different Because my, you know, like my dad, like he box, like professionally. The Way You Carry Yourself He was in like great or anything like that, but he bought professionals. Like, I wanted to be a boxer. So I'd like I did and then, you know, I found like I was good at it and I kind of, you know, state champion didn't National Champion. Like I got, you know, I started getting like these Ambitions and everything like that. Yeah. And you know, from that attitude, like when someone told you all, you are a national boxing champion, you know what I'm saying, like it kind of like it changes, your whole perspective of yourself. Like you start thinking of yourself as like I'm like just a guy that box of you like, no. Like I'm so like like I yeah, I used to get like mad. Like when people would be like I said, like I'm boxing there. Be like oh yeah, like oh yeah. My box to like, you know I got home. Just like, have you ever had a fight? There's like no. And I'm like dang you don't Speaker 1 boxer? You know, knowing yourself different kind of. Yeah, Speaker 2 yeah, yeah. Like this kind of creates a bit of a separation. Yeah. So you know having that like sense of ambition and things like that, I feel that probably like attracted like people because They thought, all this guy can be like my ticket. This guy, you want to get out of here before I even ever actually done anything. To justify them, thinking that was a possibility. But then, you know, then you start, like, I started rapping and, you know, I'm like, at these shows and like, it's a very weird thing when someone is on stage with a microphone like and the music is not garbage, you know, you feel like that person is a superstar in that moment, if they actually like if they carry themselves like Speaker 1 let's say exactly how you carry yourself and people gravitate towards that. Yeah, it's the only reference I can think of right now, but if you've seen the Kanye doc. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 Like the guy that filmed in kudi from day one before, Kanye done, anything of note like they just he just had that energy had that or aware that ambition and that sort of I guess what you're talking about here. It's sort of that unspoken that has earned a way he carried himself. Probably was a little different to you but because he was kind of like that geeky guy but that sort of hunger. It's yeah. It's a nice with people Speaker 2 and is weird because like You know, when I'm like, I didn't view myself that way. Yeah, at all. Like I was still, like, when I add perform, like plenty of shows, but if someone were asked me, if I liked was a rat rod, be like Iraq, sometimes I'm really rapidly. Like, Speaker 1 yeah. Would you call yourself? Now, if someone was like, so, what do you do or like, what would have your, you know, Speaker 2 I'm a rapper, right? Yeah. And I wouldn't have said that. I'm a rapper. Not like, now was a rapper back then. But like, I guess, you know, in my mind of like, the idea of what a rapper was with someone that's like, is Studio. Yeah. Every day, you know, they sit down and get a notebook. They riding like all the time. Yeah, like that in my head. Like that was what a rapper was. I was like, I can't call myself that because you know, it's basically I wouldn't call myself a boxer about it. Sometimes go to the box Speaker 1 and you said it. Yeah. You know what I mean? And on the flip side, I think this is kind of needless to say, but I'm sure there's a lot of people that do the same as like, we talked about with the boxing there going. Oh yeah, I'm a rapper, a rapper, okay? Like shock, show me some beer or Speaker 2 something, Lucy and their desks, like, the funny part because they are Anyone caught himself a rapper like I don't, you know, I don't really care like because rap can be like so many things as well, I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm very like, I'm very much in the camp of like if you care like to too much about someone else's music and say, that music is not good. That means it's not good. That means it's not good. It's like probably like you like you getting like overly like emotionally invested into someone else in like they business, like you could be spending the energy on yourself. Yeah. And like, you know, That we are, do it. Like we are here some Shooters like how to fuck is this? The blah blah. Yeah we're all made is the full. I can reasonably we are doing sometimes. Yeah but like you know I had to like catch myself and learn a like who really cares? Yeah. Like who really cares? Like this is It's just music. Yeah. Now that's why I could never picture myself in like a rap beef. Speaker 1 Yeah. For sure like that. Yeah. If someone writes Speaker 2 a song about me to talk shit about me I'll be like we can And I pull up and like, do something about it. Yeah. Or like we can both just shut the fuck. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You got like, I'm not sitting down and making a song about another Speaker 1 man. It calls into question that the actual credibility of some of those base because it's like, they look to ready to just go back and forth via songs. It's like, yeah, if you're really about it, I don't know. Would you really be going back and forth on the tracks, Speaker 2 like, and like to be fair, I there's a huge difference between like, rap beefing as in, you're trying to say I'm the best Trapper not only thing, like prove that you are the best rapper, which is not a thing that I would do as well because like I don't think of rappers like a sport. Like, Speaker 1 yeah, we do have some want each other Speaker 2 but like that's like, you know, that's fine. Like that's just a competitive like thing. Do you like to do? And I do believe, like, having a healthy sense of Life. Friendly competition is good for music and just very kind of everything in general, of course. But I'm talking about women, like de Souza saying, you know, yeah, I'm you know, I'm a shoe. This *** in the face like, you just like brother and go do it. It like but then like if you ask you when it did it like all the fans like getting high like yeah you know this dude would fuck out this door and blah blah blah this still got 400 shooter bit so we're actually gonna shoot someone or someone go to jail. They're gonna be like, wow, did you do that? You're ruining your life. Yeah. But you had all the opportunities like, you know, you know, but it's like now, you know. You're right. Like people always like look at it like, you know, it's straight to judgment like the second. Someone actually does something wrong, but then we listen to all these songs and they take on all this I was like yeah this is no. You're right, you're right. Yeah. Which is why I don't even like I try not to listen to Too Much drill music, even though I like it, Snitching Explained I want to talk about, I'm young thug because you left the interesting comment on our thing. And you were just like, stop waving pom-poms for the place. Yeah, but we thought you were fucking around but after listening to your your AP, we kind of get where you're coming here. No more now and we want to speak on Speaker 2 that. Okay, so go for it. They're going to Arms Speaker 1 to these rappers out here when they're, you know, saying this and that or When it comes to actual blows in the street, like obviously I only just reference the baby with limited information anyway, but when it comes to actually getting down with it and people go, oh, you know, why did this happen and why they're getting charges pressed on a why they locked up? Is it is, it is it unfair? Or is it people? Speaker 2 Okay? So like to be completely clear? First of all anything illegal, I say, on any song or any interview is always, allegedly, is always a silent allegedly right after anything. I say that. Could potentially get me in trouble unless it statue of limitations, is already passed up. Speaker 1 I was about to have freak. Speaker 2 They have free on it but I'm only 24. I'm about to be 25, so there's not a lot of stuff that would qualify for that anyway. So If you get caught, you know what I'm saying? Doing legal shit and you go to jail. Like, you know, that's the consequence, and it's a consequence to anyone that's doing anything is aware of, right? I'm not saying there shouldn't be consequences for doing the wrong thing. I'm saying that *** doing the police job for them, is some shit that I cannot support. So and I think it's bullshit like, this is just my opinion, I don't think it should be rewarded. when someone says like, Same as three. The three of us. I'm like yeah, bro. Like I heard, you know, just till he got like he got the new bah blah blah over there. Like let's just go get it and like a height both y'all up and y'all like fuck it. Let's do it. Come on we ain't gonna get caught we like let's do it. All right we go, we do it, we sell it, split the money and then fucking police knock, knock, knock their kids door. You know, three weeks later. They take him into the station and then they're just like yeah we got you on camera. We got all this you know fingerprints DNA. Like we we got all. We got all you need but we know that you wasn't by yourself. So talk to us like who else was with you? You know, maybe we can help you out and Barakat go. I because he's smart. He goes, I will need a lawyer first. You get it all written down contract, you know what I'm saying? He tells on us, he gets no Speaker 1 time. Speaker 2 That's a fucked up thing because it's like, right. Why is you getting rewarded for telling on other people? Why does that mean? You'll get absolved from the consequences of your actions? That's the issue I have. That's the issue I have. Speaker 1 It's a shit. Yeah, Speaker 2 I'm like that does good as make sense. So, if we all believe in consequence, we all believe. If you do something wrong, you get caught, you deserve the consequences, then why do these people not deserve the consequences for turning on other? Go. But they still did it. That doesn't make sense to me. Speaker 1 Yeah, that's right. Well, I mean that's why so many people had the that gripe about 69 and then, you know, he's come back and been like, I'm the only one who's ever cooperated with the government and I'm still blowing Speaker 2 up and and, and like on that as well. You know what cops call cops that tell on Cops, no snitches. Speaker 1 All right, yeah, so yes, I'm Andres. Yeah, Speaker 2 we know it cost call Internal Affairs. Speaker 1 Snitches. All right. So Speaker 2 If the police think is morally the wrong thing to do to tell on each other, when they're all part of the same thing. Then and we all like just in our lives like you know we are getting we kids you don't tattle tale or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. You know I'm saying if we all get taught that then why is it all of a sudden rewarded in like these sets of circumstances when it's like, the most serious, fucking things that's like ever happened, you know what I'm saying? Like, we're talking about murders and things like that. And, you know, People is getting away with like killing people because they said, oh I can name 40 people to, you know, as part of this that does not make sense to me. And I'm like, so that's like the issues whenever I say like whenever I, you know, say like all my shit about, you know, snitching and like all that type of shit. Like that's like the issue I have is not that I think that there shouldn't be consequences. If you do the wrong thing, you get caught. I'm saying like you shouldn't get rewarded for getting caught and then telling off. People. Speaker 1 So yeah, that guy, and he's honest getting like charges light on them. Now, we'll get lesser sentences if they flip and do you think yes? Yeah. Yeah. That's that's, that's usually how it works. That's like Classic Game Theory, is if they gain information. Exactly. They gonna be looking at it. Like, yes, many years. And I was like, oh my God, Speaker 2 they got your, oh, did you like whatever? I didn't hear? The prosecutor was saying that. He has like people that are members there was in the indictment and not in the indictment saying that he is their leader. He's dangerous. And they are scared for their lives of day. Like speak out against him. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, so you already cooperated so they like heat Lambda saying like, you know, he going to jail for like a long time. Yep. And they have the evidence. They need already. Sure. It's like yeah and it's all like that type of shit like that's the shit I don't dislike that should I don't respect it all. Yeah so you know and like from like the flip side That like if you've kinda like going up like I like we would see like the cast is like it is like an obstacle, you know what I'm saying? Like some you gotta get around like they just kind of trying to fuck up, you know, your life and you'll find it's just like you down, but I gotta beat the fuck up because when I was like 16 years old. So you know, like I'm, you know, like you're from there like I understood like oh like that's like how they treat. I asked how they treat people, you know what I'm saying? Like, so, I'm not I'm not with like people going, you know, because we can't all be like yeah, black lives matter and like police reform, you know, all this like type of shit. But then when it is convenient for you, you go. Oh but that person they deserve like you know it can't you can't have it both ways. Like you can't like you, you know, obviously like if someone's like a fucking serial killer, looks like some shit like that. You might want to leave out that last hurt. You know, obviously like I think we can all agree, those people fuck them like you know, I think you're all Speaker 1 the easiest way for me to explain this to people if they're struggling to understand where you're coming from, is if you play a game at school. All right. So your kids, you're going to play cops and robbers, we established the rules before the game starts. Yeah, no one's playing the game without knowing how to play it. If you get caught, you're in jail. Yeah. If you don't get caught, you can keep going, whatever? That's the rules. It's clearly one side versus the other. Yeah, so if you get caught, you can't be like, oh, let me Renegotiate. These rules room. Yeah, I'll tell you where these people are hiding. If you let me free, that wasn't in the rules. Exactly. The easiest. Way I can sit on. Speaker 2 Yeah. Exactly like that. And that's how I that's like. That's pretty much how I feel about it. You know, if we, if I'm on the side, you on that side, like how to, you know, how is, how is you benefiting from, especially like, bro, you to be a snitch like to be a snitch? It means you got caught first and then you trying to like you trying to like negotiate like, you know, to get some type of benefit. So it's like you were A bad criminal. Yeah. You was a bad criminal and you end up rewarded over the motherfuckers that they don't have enough on you cause you trashed. Yeah, like that, that doesn't make sense to Speaker 1 me. Like, you're on. That's wrong as your weakest link. And yeah, I mean it makes perfect. It makes perfect sense to the people that are doing the catching to the law enforcement. They catch the weakest link in there, like, all right? And since he is the weakest link, he's gonna flip. Speaker 2 Yeah. And like, you know, if you like if you out like If you like the saying like you out in the streets and you doing all this and that like, you can, like, you've established yourself, you saying? I am this if you set establish yourself as being like, a particular thing, you can it, you've you set up the code? We didn't make you do it. You know what I'm saying? You set up the call for yourself and then you violated that what you put on yourself, like the only responsibility that we all have is to our own word and that's not our words, other people's hard work to ourselves. Yeah, you know I'm saying? Speaker 1 More like just in black and white. How can you uphold the law in a court of law? When you're moving the goalposts and say, oh, but because they told their okay. Yeah. How can people instill faith in justice system and that sounds really cliche over or have no faith in justice system. But it's a real thing because, you know, that if you go to court for the same sheet of someone else, you might get a different sentence, exactly your situation. Exactly. So it sets of its that's where it's really dangerous for me because who you say, you are and who you perceive to be? That's That's you wrong. Shit to deal with. But if you go to court for a crime, you might not get a rifle sentence. Speaker 2 So, exactly, unlike you, here's the thing, like, in most, in most cases in, like, you know, Australia the stays in like UK, Most people don't ever go to, like, a trial. Most people just like, take a plate like, you know, saying the could even whether they're guilty or not, they're going to take a plea just because, you know, they're like faced with the possibility of way, way, more time. So you know, the whole like process that we have for like justice like, you know, we think like, oh, everyone's going to get a trial and like, will bring the evidence will bring this in that most of the most of the time. Like because like most people have you say, aye. Like if you like in that room, you know what I'm saying? Like you talking to them and they saying you did this, this this and they have the right to lie to you. They can lock. You just like, we know years, like we listen, we got four Witnesses and we got this and DNA and that you might as well tell us right now. Like you gonna be. All right, all right, all right. Okay, okay. Okay. Okay, yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah. So, it's like because you thinking I don't want to go to jail, 15 years, like, you know, I mean, five, I can do five and, you know, all through, Good behavior. That's the that don't sound too bad Speaker 1 and the reason I do is to keep people out of court, they don't want you to go to court because you might get a fair trial their likelihood of them getting you locked up is far Speaker 2 smaller plus it does take up time moneyline mother. Yeah, a lot of money like any kind of like fuck up the efficiency Speaker 1 like so they goal is to not go to court, they Speaker 2 don't know 100% like you know if you because I gave you a copy and you make an arrest, it is going to look bad for you if that arrest turns up. Absolutely fucking nothing. Yeah, so but Speaker 1 the play System, it's really interesting. Because if you're guilty taking a plea deal is fucking, you've hit the jackpot because you you ever hear of us, the right, people, the right idea, you can get off with a lesson Speaker 2 Tender, by the way, just for education. For anyone who may may or may not be listening, you know, if you moving around, the type of shit. Rule number one, never speak to never speak to the cops about anything ever. The only thing you have to give him his ear and Australia is your license. That's it. That's the only thing you have to give like some form of ID. That's it. You don't have to answer any other question after that. Even if it's like the most friendly question in the world they can use it. They can use it. Second of all, if you actually get arrested and you are in a room, you have a right to a lawyer and that lawyer. If there is there a good one, will tell you yet, don't say anything I answer any questions. Anyway, you cannot negotiate, a, plea deal inside of a police interrogation room Speaker 1 you. That's not how Bank you get a date out of them. Were, you know, rested? Speaker 2 Yeah. No. Unless you've been arrested. Yeah, you have the right? You have the right to lie. Yes, I like you. But I'm just saying, like, you cannot negotiate, a plea deal inside of an interrogation room. That is not where that happens. That happens with the fucking like like with actual lawyers and shit like that, that that's how that gets negotiated. Do you need it on paper? Like done saying that you would do this. There is no, there is no fucking. Oh yeah, a cop will say, oh yeah, you can get this time. That doesn't happen there long to, they're trying to get you to confess, and then they want to go to trial. So you can, you can Speaker 1 be fucked. If you been Have You Been interrogated? Speaker 2 You next question. Oh really next question here Speaker 1 that I don't know how to pull it off those some backhanded techniques, man, the lie to you. Speaker 2 I like I'll put it like that. I don't have I don't have like a I don't have like an arrest record or anything at all. Don't rap sheet. Speaker 1 I want to ask you. Because we had Kg on and he was talking about something that I really want to make a habit of asking Artist as well. Especially in music. Is it who you know, or is it what? You know what Gate Keeping & Aussie Music I mean? Yeah obviously it's both. I think everyone's going to say it but okay. But Speaker 1 have you encountered any sort of gatekeeping or have you have you had some major roadblocks do to people sort of having something against you for whatever Speaker 2 reason. I don't know about gatekeeping. Like maybe maybe, like some people have not have son. Against me, is more just kind of the way. Dollars viewable I just kind of goes back into the whole weirdo gang thing like you know with me just being the more kind of background as a personality. You know rap is like full of eccentric, kind of characters and like outspoken people in our spoken characters, you know, very colorful people like so you know, with my brother being more naturally that and with party at 11:00 be more naturally that, you know, it was like kind of A thing or like I remember one time like ones in the pissed me off was we went like, did a photo shoot for like a poster for this show and then because it was like a few different posters for like every actor was at the show and then when they posted the photo from the photo shoot, which was obviously more over there and and party at 11, they had cut me out the poster and just like we got the crappy kids who didn't for my and lie, like I was like I told you like straight up and this is only like I wanted to glisten a year and to wrap it. So I'd like, I just talked to share, like, not unlike know, like, a crazy shot in the side, you know, like what Mike, what the fuck was that? He's, yeah, aw. Nah. Cause like, you know, like he's like, you know, he's like the rapper and like, he like, does the vocals and that are on the side. I'm just, like, no. Like yeah. But like, I'm a part of the group. He doesn't matter if I do as we know that I'm a part of the group, it says we do gang. It doesn't say, you know, at the time suit. Yeah. I can put all in party at 11 so it says we're all gay. Yeah. And like I'm a part of it. Speaker 1 So we're not. What was he like? Did you get Did you get it? Fixed. Speaker 2 Not, okay. Look who's here? I ended up having their that was like shortly before I ended up having my surgery and she like that. Like, so I wasn't injured at that point in time. But like, yeah, I told like, you know, I that was like, I started to take notice like, okay, like, you know, I'm not really viewed as like the artist, kind of one because we're doing gang, was not just like a music group was also like a group of Black individuals, that was all friends with each other and lived in like the same locality. Yeah. Speaker 1 Like a click as well. Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. A click. Yeah. Speaker 1 You will never viewed his that about the rapid oddest kind of thing. Speaker 2 Yeah, like, you know, it was, it was more like, yeah, like it can is the rapper, like, Ike is the rapper and, you know, like party at 11:00. He's a singer. And then maybe he's like, he's like, oh no, I guess you would call it like this. This song called To fit to me by. If you had to put a label on you say, ìhey like this, the street one, like right now, I'm saying like the one that's going to make sure that everything goes right. You are the type of shit Speaker 1 but that's interesting, is it? Yeah it goes back to like what people sort of what what they perceive as like this to you. Speaker 2 Yeah. But like we corrected that and like you know like like everything was fine after their, I guess like the only other thing was, you know, because my brother at the time he was dating like he was dating a girl that's like, like a painter and stuff like that. You already know who that is and she was like, kind of in that like, you know, seeing creative like Hannah scene, which is mostly on like this house out of camper at least in that point of time, like most musicians, not rappers specifically, but just musicians and artists and that type of stuff at that point of time was mostly on the South Side. So and it wasn't a lot of young people like kind of getting involved in that, you know, there were exceptions but for the most part it was like 25. Plus and, you know, we came into it as teenagers. Yeah. So I guess there was that bit of gatekeeping, like, I don't notice like I did notice like, you know, we will go to a show and then I would like, hear someone in the background being like a fucking weirdo game like, yeah, you know, why they're getting this time slot? And I get this time slot, Speaker 1 like, you know, is that what's bothering you? Nobody knows my name but I did but the yeah all chanting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It kind of references that Speaker 2 doing shows are no-nos. Maybe they still cheer, that's the one. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's the thing because it's like, I know, I'm just good. Like, at the end of the day, like, if I if people just come up and like, see me perform like, and like the group performs? Well, I'm, you know, speaking specifically for me not like if people come and see me perform like you going to enjoy yourself, are you going to join the show? Yeah, because I got like, I know what quality like I bring to my she ended up having like establishing yourself as like a face and a name, and that type of stuff in Australia, like the Australian music. Ian is like a can be a bit difficult because it's a limited number of people in Australia and therefore they feel like it has to be a limited number of like spots you can pay attention to but like 90% of like music displayed in Australia on the radio and she like that comes from the US or the Speaker 1 UK. Right. That's interesting. Speaker 2 So it's like we only room like yeah. But like we as Australians have already allotted. 90% of our entertainment Reich. Your right brain and memory. Write for shit. That is not here. Yeah. No, I'm saying. So we have 10% of our attention for everything else is around us, and then we feel like all can only be someone that's already been acknowledged by the outside, you know, or we, you Speaker 1 know, I guess I said be a herd mentality though like, ever gets a look at like, what's hot, like your ways, everyone else will, and Speaker 2 like, I'm not even hitting on it. Like it's not something that happened on purpose. Not saying that people do on purpose, I do the same Speaker 1 shit. Mass psychology, kind of. Speaker 2 Well, I, you know, when like especially like living in Marlborough now living in Sydney, like meeting so many different artists are shamans like Bro, like there's people that make music that has listened to it just because I like it. Yeah, you know, I mean not because they my friends and that's kind of the other problem in canvas, specifically, like people only listen to their friends. Me. Yeah. Like no one. No one is just like, listen, I'm looking up the enemy's new EP. Yeah, look good though. Yeah, exactly. Like on the, on the North side, we're like, I don't speak for the whole north side because I don't know everyone, but like in my friendship group belconnen like No one, I know. Ali said, I'm like, aware of like, right now that doesn't make music is like listening to every single thing. That's a Genesis who drops or Yoji drops. Or citizen K drops, anything like that. I do because I'm in the music scene and I'm interested. Like, and I want to know, I want to see and I actually like the music. You know what Speaker 1 I mean? It's not about you from from early, like you really stay right on top of it. Like you really got your finger on the pulse so to speak in terms of everything it's sort of happening. Speaker 2 Um, but I'll try to like it. You don't want to do Speaker 1 it. Like some people just disengage completely, like, like what we went back to before, like, a lot of rappers might not listen to rap or a lot of like, boxes, mine on which boxing's. Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, I don't even listen to that music is the funny part, like, you know, when people do the whole fucking Spotify, like, you know, I was looking like, the amount of Speaker 1 Minister. Yeah. You mean even listen to music, Speaker 2 mom, like mom is always way below like everyone else, but like I will listen to like, everyone's music cuz Like part of it is, I'm interested and the other part of it is like I want to see like what the market is, what's already in the market and like where the gaps are like, I know like what the Gap in the market is, you know, and in terms of like what I can like bring to it. And you know this project and like music music that I've made on this project is definitely like he's definitely like taking something in the music scene in Australia. That's not really being done. Yeah, but I don't hear. You know, so if someone is and they can point me out to it, but like I don't hear people in like the Australian music scene just like known that is bringing things exactly how I'm bringing it. Speaker 1 Like and the reason you have that confidence is because you know what's out there? Yeah that knowledge you don't know if you'll Speaker 2 just exactly like I know a lot of motherfuckers talking about. Yeah I'm gonna do some shit. No one's ever seen before and I'll pull up and it's like yeah you like the 30th motherfucker. Maez’ Next Project I've heard this song, right? Speaker 1 Like you know, most basically do you project. When can we uh no there's no dates in like I'm but how do you want to present this to people? I don't think it's it's very important. Obviously delivery is very important and and be satisfied with the way it comes out. Speaker 2 My, like, my whole thing is, like, all music. I'll put out to this point, you know, like just just music is way, way better than anything. I've put out before. Like, to me, write all these, I'll put out to this point, you know, it's reliable like mostly on Word of Mouth like type shit, you know, I mean, maybe I'll get like a, you know, put in a playlist here, radio play there, like that type of thing. No is all like based on the connection that I have like almost directly just as a person who do you know his work fine for me, you know what I mean? But I want this to be heard by as many people as possible. Like, I wanted to be heard by people that have literally never heard of me ever before in their entire lives. Because just is like, you know, it's just part of me and like part of my story and everything that I've had to I got to like, dick, you know saying, I know Brad to dig like, right there was like several things on this, that I was like, when I was writing, I was just like /. Like, I don't even want to think about this type, Speaker 1 she like, so, and I think it's really gonna be really careful with how you deliver it, because you don't want to do yourself a disservice. Because if you're not completely satisfied with obviously put a lot into it and there's a lot of stuff that's kind of like little bit more vulnerable than the other stuff. So I just think personally, if I was going to put it out, I'd want it exactly curated to. I want it to be Speaker 2 perceived. Yeah, exactly. So, like, you know, that there's, you know, there that's like Liza process of, you know, meeting the right people. You can, you know, do do what I need to be done to get it presented the correct way. So you know, and that's the process I'm in right now, which is you know, I don't know how long exactly that'll take but hopefully not too much longer. It's there is definitely going to come out this year. Obviously, it's going to be in the second half of this year. It's definitely gonna come out kind of like people to hear it. Speaker 1 And I think when sorry, yeah, no, I was just going to say those. Some talks of you either releasing some different different, different type of media with the album or or you know, after the album. What, you know. Did you want to go a little bit more into that? I think I think Beckett said something about maybe a mini documentary or something Speaker 2 see for that like I want that because like that still kind of being like process and every right. So I want to I want to keep that like I've been Close to the chest. And so it started to be fully formed. Like, I can talk about the music because, like music is done. Yeah. And you've Speaker 1 yeah, would you do you have an interest in sort of venturing out into, like a different medium? Like, like more visual art as well? Speaker 2 Oh no, like, here's a thing. Like, I realize I can pretty much do anything in like soaking soaking. Anyone like, like almost like every rapper that I know. And like, most rappers that I see, it's Not that they specifically wanted to be a rapper insist that has some type of like creative. Like you know, some type of creative if it's wearability and you know you know, for the most part, I'm talking about like, black people like okay. Yeah. You're creative and you're black and you from this type of environment where the Creator's doing that environment when they black their rap, you know what I mean? But you know that like if they grew up like somewhere else they might have ended up being a filmmaker like some type of shit like that. So you know I don't know exactly like you know what like four Nama wrap around like Very happy to be doing that and I feel like it's the easiest way for me to directly kind of translate. What I want to what I want to put out about myself but in terms of you know everything else like the stories that I want to put out into the world, you know. Yeah about other aspects and things, you know, in our community and other communities. How we interact that type of thing. I don't know how I progressed that, but I'm not, it's definitely something. I'm looking into, I've already had like, I've had people tell me like before, like when I'm done like a lot, Strings like probably looking 2020, like, June the whole black lives matter shit. Like I was like, doing live streams and like, talking to people. And I had people tell me, I hear like you should do a podcast. You should have a show like, this type of stuff. I'm doing all Speaker 1 pie, Speaker 2 it's good. I almost did at one point, but like I thought I do not like fall into it, but “Oversaturation” that brings me to a point. I really want to ask you about this oversaturation in different mediums. So I've already quoted in before but Jerome Cohen From Des Moines, had a good take on this. What's your, what's your perspective on oversaturation and people always throwing shade, like we've coped, it's like people, you've probably co-opted as well. Everyone wants to be a rapper. Everyone wants to have a podcast, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. So like, who do you believe that you have to find a specific Niche or do you think that the cream will rise to the top? And just if you stay on your house or if you bring something your own genuine perspectives or something, you kind of, Speaker 2 I mean, in my opinion, we live in the age of Niche like, Like, everything is kind of a niche now, for me, like the algorithms and like, the way they work on social media and I'm not trying to sound like a conspiracy theorist, I don't, this is literally is what it is Speaker 1 all how you Fun Works by Speaker 2 you once like your phone understands, the type of shoe you like to see is going keep on putting that in your face outside like the type of shit that's going to get engagement out of you. So we all kind of exist in like our own little Pocket Entertainment. And so you see like mainstream like for example like Jack Harlow like you know, and this Like putting aside like all the jokes and she that I'll make about him because there's a lot there. Yeah, but you know, Jack Harlow like is the perfect example of like, I feel like the age of like the pop rapper is kind of dying a little bit like because if you can hear the music that is like exactly what you want to hear about the exact things that you want to like be her talk about. Yeah you're not going to listen to him or focus is trying to appeal to everybody and like have like a just a vague General, Connor Speaker 1 interest You know what I'm saying? Spoon-fed what we want to hear anyway, Speaker 2 exactly. And it's like it works out really well for artists because it means that you are not forced to be something that you are not naturally. But if you know the flip side of it is, if you not someone that has anything like specific. Um, that's right. No appeal. You just like, generally, interesting or generally funny. It's going to hurt you a little bit. So that's why you see like album sales, it's not crazy, like it's not a million in the first week or some shit like that. Like a used to be Me Speaker 1 more so much more sense to me because it's, we forget the way which were projecting art. So it's curated to that people that are listening. For example, if you were to just set up a stage in the middle of the CBD and start doing a show, few people come around, see who sticks around but no your booking shows this people specifically want to see your exactly. So I guess and for social media, the algorithms are feeding you as if you were booking a show. So exact and feeding it to the people that want to hear your Speaker 2 shit. Exactly. So and like to like go back into the question the US I think like obviously there's still like oversaturation everything like that, but because everything is like Niche doubt. Now, the only like the markets that are getting saturated. You just like all whatever appears to be like popping a high. So like a drill music and Australia was like, really, really, really hot for a moment when were like 14, first came out and everything like that. You and you know, but that is like getting less and less like of a you know seem like less and less of like a viable route to success because You know, the biggest like rapper, if you want to, like call them, like just a rapper. We're like, you know, artists like in Australia this come out recently would be Genesis will so, you know, say no drill music at all. No no, like guys, like nothing, you know what I'm saying? And then like you I have like a TK Mazdas. Well you know, and or it's a a great like all these different things. So this so like if you're like that kind of goes back into what I was even saying before, Like me saying that I looked for, where the Gap in the market was on what I could bring to it. You know, with my kinda just authenticity and storytelling and that type of thing, you know, just taking it from my own life, like we have plenty of people talking about, you know, the streets and although I was in the hood struggling and you know, that type of shit. But it's not, you know, it's like one side of it is very like one dimensional. You know what I mean? So, Speaker 1 You, if you Speaker 2 find a market, that's not over saturated, you have a better chance of being successful, but even if it is a saturated Market, you if you are genuinely, just better than everyone else in that market you will eventually you will eventually get noticed like you eventually get pushed Speaker 1 for the quick tanaka-san, he doing something that's like, yeah. Yeah. Reliable. It's similar to, yeah. Not Speaker 2 like, like people that do it at like, people did it, bro. I like, I was like winning state championships and people was telling me like You're so good at boxing on the side will just like *** gonna get in the ring with me. Thank you, know what I'm saying? Like like I was like oh you guys made a podcast little how original let Speaker 1 you know, I was sorry. You mentioned Jack holic War, had a question regarding post. You had a hollow post questions. Post my blog post. Could you you're like oh, when I asked him about post being the ex white rapper, kind of vibe because he's album just came. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Have You Have you listened to? I mean? Okay. Okay, we'll post Malone and Jack Hall. I don't know if I don't really see post Malone as a rapper. So I can't really, Speaker 2 I mean, he was when he came out but then he realized why people liked his music. Speaker 1 So, yeah. When he was like, do Speaker 2 you know, any way that, you know, a salt, but Speaker 1 ya. Nah, nah, yeah. That's that's, that's, that's all good. Yeah. He's albums getting clowned. You said it is getting clowned. Speaker 2 It is it? I listen Speaker 1 to it, I don't have to play. Post Malone. Yeah. Speaker 2 See that's the thing. I mean, that's not The niche that I'm in now you go back out you know Speaker 1 like I don't know what came out. I Speaker 2 don't drink or do like anything at all. Never has so like someone talking about that type of shit is not nothing. He's not really gone like appeal to me specifically Speaker 1 but I feel like pose he doesn't really, it's not like he's chasing clout like I feel like he's not he couldn't give Speaker 2 a fuck if you. Okay. So a very good is a post Malone fan. I've heard Speaker 1 if Moses was here, he'd be raving on about the others. I don't wanna Speaker 2 scare likely scared to offend me because I actually known it feel like, wow, overall, I do not know how I know him either. It's just like Speaker 1 that's like most people, right? He's pop songs just that dude. Well, amazing app. Thank you for giving us like avocado. How about come out? I really it'll come out. I think people will really resonate with this one. So thank you for being so open with this and try to answer these questions they obviously through. Very broad question. So you answer them very well. What's next? And would obviously I cannot see this already but you'll evolution is ongoing. You seem like a guy that's definitely changing a lot and constantly trying to sort of do different things. So if you can sort of try to answer like, what do you, what do you see yourself? Obviously, you want to hope to drop that that piece of work this year? Where do you see yourself going in the next few years? Speaker 2 In terms of like music and I'll keep it to, that's it. Keep it brief July in terms of music. Like hopefully if this does for me what I wanted to do, which is you know the very least kind of establish myself. Like give people an idea of what I am is artist and you know kind of announce myself correctly to like the Australian music scene. Hopefully enough people like it to the point where I can start saying like oh I have like a fanbase of like you know, currently I said my fan base would be about know, like three people so hopefully I can get that to a five or six small steps. Hey, yeah. You know, like, you know, if we can get there, then we can get there that I think being very Speaker 1 modest there. But let's Speaker 2 go. You know, I kept, you know, might not be three might be for. Yeah. But three outside of the outside of that. Really. I'm, you know, I'm trying to kind of like work with different people, you know, do different things, kind of diversify, you know, the lanes I see myself in because, you know, I used to be the very light, Thugged-out. Like, I can't do that. Oh, fuck. Is he like, I'm blah, blah blah. Then you know, I'm just like I just kind of started to stop them decide, bro. Like people know what I did like. Yeah. I know that you're like a, you're like like if like if you wanted in people and you watching like, you know what I did. Yeah. You know what I do. So, you know, like, you know, it don't matter, like how cute it looks like dog. I'll try Speaker 1 it. Just quickly. Do you have a title for the tracks and we'll the pace of Speaker 2 work? Yeah. Oh, you do. Yeah, I was wondering though. Project is is source for a son? How's yes'm? I'll get ya. I'll put that out there. This is an exclusive exclusive. All right, this is Susan. So that's what your product is called Stars. First Speaker 1 Sight, that'll help people. Not know what to look for Speaker 2 and, you know, it's ours for a second. I'll give you 2 excuses. I'll give you the title and like the brief bio. Yes, ours for a son is an exploration of how the cycle of trauma can perpetuate itself into A never-ending circle of repetition. Speaker 1 Boom. I made that up on the spot. They Speaker 2 hopefully and hopefully it sounds as good as it's Speaker 1 not what I think is most from what we've heard that that encapsulate. So that was Chief mazor. Amazing, thank you very much for being on the podcast that I really enjoyed having, you know, problematic Speaker 2 hasn't