R&R - #4 Jesse Drent onthult wat echt telt in training en paardenwelzijn

(soft music) Alex, welcome to the show. Thank you very much for joining us. - Oh, thank you for having me. Thank you. - We want to talk about creativity in football first of all. And this idea that so often a sport which requires creativity can also be a world that suppresses your creativity. Does that ring a bell with you? - Yeah, it does, but I'm just lucky I haven't had any, like anyone around me, coaches or family members that's restricted that they've always encouraged me to go and be myself. So I've never felt that sort of pressure that I can't be myself. - So what was your upbringing like where freedom of expression was encouraged? - Well, traditionally I came from an adria background. So in my household as me, my sister, my mum and dad, and would literally just be in our selves dancing around the house, playing football in the house, sometimes my mum used to get a bit annoyed 'cause I'm slid-hacking balloons and kicking cans in the house. But yeah, so obviously everyone knows I'm blessed to have an uncle and Jade your coach are. So I used to go watch his games and especially when he was a botan in a team where some allodias are the manager. Vodera's meant to some allodias. He's not one that plays a attractive football. But with my uncle there, he allowed him to go and express himself. He was played by Smiley's face or literally just growing up watching him and the family I had, like it just said, go be you. Like, and I didn't have any doubts about being myself. What does that actually mean though, Alex, when they say go and be you? 'Cause you can hear that used a lot, but what does it mean for you? Well, me, I'm a bubbly character. My friends can tell you some of my pupils are here. My bubbly, loud character. And I've been showing that recently on my social media platform so people can see the real me. But yeah, I just like to vibes with my friends on the pitch and they like to see me. I'll probably have a bit of band on my boys on the pitch. And that's literally me the notch. I just like to be happy, happy girl. So I think something might have changed for you in the last little while because suddenly you are expressing yourself. You are talking about your music. I really want to have a conversation with you about that. You've got a YouTube channel, you're uploading content. What's the period where you didn't feel able to be yourself and do you now feel like you've reached a point where you can? Um, I wouldn't say not be myself, but just like showcase who I am in a sense where like, I've always been the same person, but I didn't really put it out there like, like the YouTube channel's on the Instagrams or the TikToks. But like if you could ask my friends, I'll literally be dancing around, whether you could go in and those would just be being clowns. If you're in a car park, I would literally dance until silly o'clock. But now you can see it like even when I play football, maybe your football, but I'm a bit more less expressive in a sense now playing midfield. I literally try to get the one play forward, whereas when I was younger, I used to do a child do all the tricks and not mix, but not anymore. But yeah, I've always been the same as just that recently. I've been showcasing like the music, been doing music since I was in secondary school, but now like I'm showing it to everyone that I enjoy, and joy putting up music and I like doing it. I like to go to studio with my friends. So it's literally just showing what I do on a social media platform. So how was that changed then? Why are you suddenly feeling like you can talk about it? Um, yeah, that cliche saying that you should focus on football. When I was young, they would say don't be distracted. And if you like, if I was living, if I was living, I was still living the same, but if I was showing what I was doing back then, and if I had one band performance, they'll blame it on the distraction that are he's in the studio who should be going to bed maybe five minutes earlier. He's not focused on his football, but now I've got to stage but feel like it's come of age, where's that? I'm still going to be me. I want to show what I'm doing, but I'm showing you I'm also 100% focused on football. We interviewed real Ferdinand on this, and he spoke about the challenges that David Gail and Alex Ferguson sort of issued to him when he opened a restaurant. They didn't feel he should be doing anything outside of that guys have just focusing on football. Have you ever had a coach or somebody within the, in a club that has challenged you about the music or some of the creative output? Um, yeah, well, all of them. All of them have said, "Everyone knows I like to play football outside of football with my friends. I like to go goals and play if I ever said every manager said, "Alex, what are you doing?" I can't lie, but I never touch you, I never get injured. So I just enjoy playing football with my friends. I have a laugh. So that one they always say, "What are you doing?" I can't help if I go play football with my friends, even though the intensity is very low. With the music, I can only go off my current manager, Marco Silva. He don't mind my music. There's been times it's in the gym and he's, but when he said as well. He don't mind, but, um, like the snap chats, he did say as long as it's not like, 'cause there's been a few times he's been arts in the interview, like, "Oh, from Alex's snap chat, he's an ankle is a bit flared up. Is he gonna play the next game?" So the next day he's pulled me and said, "Alex, why are you posting your ankle snap chat?" And I'm about to be like, "Oh, I knew I was gonna play. I just asked him, it wasn't anything major, but yeah, Marco Silva doesn't mind what I do in my social media, as long as it's positive. And even my manager, a manager likes to get involved. He wants to be recorded." This is that right. I don't know if you've seen this, been dancing on my YouTube. He likes it. So I've never had an issue what I put out. All the managers are currently me to do it, as long as I'm performing on the pitch. And what does finding this freedom do for you? It just, I can just be me, 24/7. I don't have to like hide who I am. So I can go, I can be bubbly at home. And I can still be the same bubbly person at training. I'm not the loudest, but I'm up there. There's like people at Calvin Bessie. I don't know if everyone knows Calvin Bessie and Samuel Chalcaisey. So I was free. I literally just ran the training, ran making noise. And the manager know and man's, because they know that we're still focused. We're still gonna be 100% on the pitch. But for us to play, we just have to be ourselves. So everyone encourages us to be loud. So what is the truth then about football as having interests outside of football? Because you know, I spent 10 years hosting for BT Sport, Premier League Champions League. And I often was sitting there hearing X footballers say, oh, this player's distracted by something that's going on outside the game, whether it's like a fashion brand. And we've seen footballers really badly criticised. I mean, a couple of former Everton players, like Tom Davies, Dominic Albert Lewin. You know, remember, they just literally went to a fashion show. It made every newspaper, and every social media post. What's the truth when people say, if you have something going on outside of football, it distracts you from football? What is the truth? It's weird because like, we are humans. I think everyone forgets that we're humans as well. Like, we have a life outside of football. So there'll be a lot of people. I'm sure everyone's not just football football. Otherwise, you could go mad. Yeah. So like, there's a lot of people, my team, they'll love golf. Golf's not a, you know, some people say, you could get out if you swing a certain way. Like, everyone has things they love doing. So like, Tom Davies, and don't I remember when I first joined Everton. And to me, they're stars a bit crazy. So when they used to come with that mad outfit, I'm like, oh, people like, oh, you need to focus on football. I just wear a neck tracks to you. And it's coming to training. But they're just being themselves. And I always encourage it because being used, that's who you should be. You shouldn't be listening to doubts. I know it's focused on what works for you. So can I actually then about that post-Fconfinal where you caught an awful lot of abuse? And he came off Instagram. What was it about that that sort of gave you the encouragement to back away from being you publicly? We'll be right back after a quick word from our partners. Because after the off-cord, I didn't really see a lot until I came off. Because I just wanted to live in the real world. I just wanted to be myself with no one questioning, no one bothering me. And literally, what I do really matters to like my friends and my people. So I don't really want to hear the outside noise. I know you shouldn't be doing that shouldn't be doing this. But then you have brand deals. And then you have to, people want to see who you are. So I did have to come back. But yeah, I just don't like listening to the outside noise. Even now, if I post, I'll let my friends view the comments. Or someone view what people are saying. I never go and look what's happened to my name. I see what people are saying about me. So on that moment after the off-con match, did you make the mistake of going on and seeing the criticism and then delete the account or what happened there? Nah, so I was just very disappointed. I just wanted to be myself after the off-con battle. And I came off it, I think. This is instantly. So the next day, Victor 7, the main striker, he's not to my door like, I thought I was late for something. The way he knocked my office in trouble, we banged on my door. I said, "Lol, Alex, I need to talk to you." And I thought, "It's something serious like, I'm in trouble." He said, "Ah, Alex, I don't like what the media is saying about you." And I'm like, "What are they saying? I can't see. I'm off." And he goes, "Yeah, they're saying that the media's affected you." Like, "You've done so much for Nigeria." And I'm like, "Oh, I just ditch you, World Cup. That way, I'm good." He goes, "No, I just want to make sure you're good." And that's when I first found out that people were talking about me. But then I just said to Victor, "I don't care. I'm good." And he goes, "Oh, I just wanted to make sure." Then he was circling around and we were traveling back to Nigeria. It became a big deal that had to come back on Instagram just to make sure to tell everybody that I'm mentally in a good place. I just wanted to come off of that piece of man. And did it affect you when he told you that's what people were saying? Yeah, I know, because I don't want people thinking I'm in a bad place. Yeah. And those people going through a lot worse in this world and that. If you're going through something, I always say that, tell people that speak to someone. So I don't want people thinking like, "I'm in need of desperate help." Because I was actually okay. So when he told me that, "Oh, I feel like I need to put a message out there." So remember, my team puts together a lot of podcasts, many interviews, just to. to tell people what's going through my mind. And I can say it to everyone, I was always okay. So that sounds like you've thought about your inner circle and making sure that they're on board with how you receive the information. What kind of conversations have you had with those that are close to your then to make sure they're giving you the right information rather than all the noise that you describe? I mean, if anything's ever too negative, the first one to tell me is my dad, he's always looking on to, he's always on there. But then he tells you what people are saying. Yeah, no, that's just my dad. Like he's always on there. He would tell like my people are here now. He sends them everything about me. He's a very proud guy, I have to say. But yeah, so like you would probably tell me, my team would say, if anything's ever that bad, they'll say, oh, it's maybe you need to do this. But this is why my team good, because we always like to control our own narrative in the sense where like I like to put out, if you're gonna hear something, it's gonna come from me, not from just hearing rumors. So what about though in terms of relationship performance? How do they give you feedback? Have you had the conversation about like, how they deliver it, when they deliver it? What are the areas that you will listen to them on? Well, they obviously, my dad, my friends, always give their opinions what, it's more in a mental state, it's like, oh, you did good, that keep going, that I really want that help, football, I speak to my coach, I'm a manager on that, my teammates in. Everything's really positive, there's never really negative. Even if there's like something to improve on, it's not like I was shouting, I was yelling at me, there's just a commoner, can't manor. But yeah, no one ever delivers messages to me like in a mad way, everyone's that really positive. So, and it's been like that from, even when I was at every, and I was going through that difficulties on the pitch, though I say, don't worry, you get back, like it was never like anything negative, they always push me to go. And can you give an example, though, of like a bit of feedback from your inner circle that has made a real positive difference to you? For example, I ever win when those times I wasn't playing, and I was on a tackle more like a winger trying to get goals. My team, my dad said, my team's proposed to my dad, Alex should maybe do extra finishing, and maybe it'll help him get his goals. And I was a bit stubborn, not first, saying, I don't want to pay no one to go and do finishing. I could just go and do it myself. But then I listened to my team, we went to somewhere in Manchester, and we just worked on my finishing, I want to week. And yeah, it helped me, it helped me build confidence to get on the pitch and literally just shoot from anywhere as much as I can. So just know things like that, my team will help. - I think one of the real secrets to being in elite sportsmen, or being in the public eye like you, is the ability to deal with rejection, with criticism, with people having a conversation about you that you're not part of. And actually, if we look back through your story, like rejection is a pretty common theme. And I wonder whether actually you can now reflect on what happened early in your career, and find some gratitude for the fact that your resilience was built at an early age, and for people in the room that don't know, I think it would be nice to tell them the story of what happened to you when you were just 14 years older. - Yeah, I'm born in May, so I'm one of the late ones in my year. So when I was 14, I wasn't that physically developed at everyone else in my year. So I've always been lucky, I was technically good, but I was in that far strong, I was quite small. So he said, they always said to me, "Ah, you're not strong enough to pay "your own age group, "that keep working on your technical ability, "hopefully you develop over the time." So I was 14, I almost got let go. So that was difficult in a sense where you have that, you have schoolwork, there's a lot of you trying to balance on a thinking, ah, then you're going into school. I was not favored in school because I was quite slow as well as when I was 14. But they would say, "And I went to a rugby school, which did not help, "because I'm skinny and I'm slow. "I'm not winning anything at rugby." But they'd be like, ah, these are Arsenal, KDFACE is good, another, another, the dark. But when I was 15, 16, it turned wrong, 'cause I started growing and I played for England, and that's when it started to change. When I started getting a bit more, saying, ah, like he's developing, leaving that 16 was even tough, because everyone that played for England, my age group got offered a professional contract, but I was the only one that didn't. So there was like so many names of like six of them that got offered a professional contract. So how do you find that out? So you find out, obviously everyone, I don't know if everyone knows about Haley and Haley's where the Arsenal Academy is, and at the time it was, I believe, Leon Brady, he was telling us, ah, they actually said to me, you're gonna get a scholarship, but if you wanna go to another club, feel free to look. I thought, what does that mean? Do you want me or not sort of thing? So then I actually looked at Crystal Palace, looked at, so it come into Crystal Palace training ground and had a look, but then, like he said, I've been through a lot of rejection. With rejection, whenever I got told, I'm not good enough, I always had to prove that I am good enough to stick around. So I said, me and my dad said, we're not going nowhere, we're gonna prove that I'm good enough to play for Arsenal. But you said earlier that about the social media that you like to control the narrative. What story were you telling yourself, though, because you're having the messages that they're not sure about you? What was it like back there? Yeah. I always believed I was good enough. The same friends that I hear today, most of them are back from back then as well, and they always just tell me, and it's like, you're good man. Like you can do whatever, like you do things with a ball, no one else does. I'm like, yeah, then my dad will say the same thing. Then my uncle said they say the same thing. So I'm like, if these lots see it, I need to prove to the other people I don't see it, I can play football. So yeah, just literally believe myself that one day will turn around and they'll actually, I'll change their opinion. So did you have a conversation with Liam Brady to ask him what do I need to improve? What is it that I need to do to convince you? He always said, we need you to physically develop. That's what he always used to say to you, 'cause I wasn't the quickest until like 18. I was one of the slowest of what. I could always run for days, but I was just very slow. So he just said maybe over time, and he actually believed in over time, I'm sure we'll come by just right now. We're not sure about you. And at what point did your career ask or start to involve arson Venger? When did you first start getting a regular interactions with him? When I was 18. But the good thing about arsonal, when you're a scholar, there's a lot of players going international break. There's so many players that always go play for their country. So they're always losing a lot of players. So they need players to fill that full training session. So they'll call people from under 18s. So there'll be a lot of times that go and train with the 18s. And this is another reason why I can play numerous positions, 'cause I'll be playing right back, I'll play left back, I'll be sitting there and play straco in training. I mean, one time, I'll play right back and all the title was getting onto me. It's saying, "No, he didn't even know my name's like, "Hey, you!" He needs to do better, and I thought, "Yo, this is tough, at 16 here in the 'I need to do better." And I'm not, I'm playing right back. So that's when arson Venger, I think, slightly to real life who I am, then the more you train well, the more you get called over on, and it's actually picked off when I was 18. And is there a story or an anecdote about Venger that gives you a hint of how special he was? The older I'm getting, the more I'm realising, he's not a man that says many words, but I used to think like, why is he so quiet, why is he so chill? But when he speaks, when he warts in, everyone's just silent. There's only two people I've seen do that. It's him and Colin and Chalottie, where they can just walk in and everyone's just like this. No one says that he fit. And obviously, because he was my first manager, I was thinking why is no one talking? Why is no one saying, 'cause I had Steve Bowd before that, like Steve getting, they're walking and everyone's still talking. But we've been, yeah, he's had his mad presence, mad aura. And then even like when he speaks to me, I'm like, I don't even know what to say. So he's presence, he's aura. When he's taught, he does a lot of knowledge like he understands the game. And especially youngsters, he's always talking to youngsters trying to improve your game. So when you were a youngster and you were just coming through, what would he be saying to you? Even if it wasn't a lot, what was he saying? For me, as a, 'cause I was playing in midfield a lot of the time, we just seemed like composure, like that stay calm and composed, relaxed when you're on the ball, take a time. Of course, training sessions, like maximum free touches in the pitch. So, but he always say to me, stay composure, you got a lot more time than you think. 'Cause there'll be times, when I first started training first team, the intensity is high. So I'm feeling like I need to get my pass off quick before someone comes and bullies me and barges me. That shrines his cock and clean me one time and training. I don't want to fall that pain again. So I'm trying to rush the pass. When he said, "Nah, take a time, breathe." Then when you're watching the lights of urs or you're watching the sandy cozzola and Jack Walsh here, they're playing like there's no pressure. So then the mom training and the mord is telling me, "I'm really nice and are like, if once you have a good touch, you actually have more time when you fit." And when you first started playing with the first team and you saw those amazing talents, the wooshers and the urs and the santicas, all those many others. How present was imposter syndrome? Was there a voice in your head asking you if you were good enough to be there? Or did you always have the belief that you were? - No, I always had the belief. I always had the belief because I would never look like I'm out of place and always after a training session. Like, if you thought I got cleaned up by a cochleon, you'd tell me you're training well. Like you say, you're doing well, motorcycle all the time. Used to be in my essay and Alex, like, you're doing really good, you're doing really good. And even it was one time, Coach Shelley, and he's someone that another person that doesn't speak, said to me, "You're doing well." So I said, "Okay, I must be doing something right." And because the manager's always talking to me, he gives you that confidence that you're doing well anyway. And yeah, I really enjoyed it because it's like, the more I see youngsters come up now, sometimes the managers don't always talk to the young players like what to work on and what to improve on. I was a specific moment when you felt I'm comfortable there that I can do this. I think preseason, so on and single pour, when I got called up and I was like, wow, like I'm really going away with the first team, with the men's team. And like, I'm representing them. And then I played in the Emirates Cup against Leon. And I played on a score and I thought, wow, because in the moment you just think it sounds like it's top that's intense, you use high. I don't know if I'm going to cope when I'm playing other teams, but because I was grateful to be playing in such a, in the team, it was one of the best in the world, best players in the world. When you play against other teams, other players is not as hard. So I thought, if I can cope here playing for Arsenal and play the way I play against Leon or a single pour tour, I can play literally anywhere. And what year was that tournament when you felt like, yeah, okay, I belong here? Come on, it was 80, I don't know, 80 in the single pour, I think in, wow, I'm literally handling myself here. And how long after that was it when Arsenal and Ben Galeft and Merin's replaced? Almost, I've been 21. I was 21. You were 21? Maybe three years later. Three or four years, yeah. Actually, in that period transition, because there was a period where Arsenal, you know, during the planes flying overhead, vengue out the chance, the band was that kind of, that toxic atmosphere. And you're one of the young players trying to perform in that. And then suddenly this legendary manager leaves and who Namarie comes in. What are your memories of that period and trying to protect yourself in that environment? From what I remember, obviously, there's a lot of pressure on us. And we can hear it. Even though people say like, focus like you don't let distractions get into you, you'll get into the team. Everyone could hear it because like we're being compared to like the invincible and we're not damn well. And I think some experts are saying they're just not the same Arsenal. Then it's like the time when there was Arsenal fan TV was literally growing up. And with the players see the Arsenal fan TV. No, no, no, no, no, most of them will say no, but players did see it because there'll be times. I'm not going to say exactly what was said. There'll be times where like one person will get trolled by another player, calling them the names that will be said by like troops. And I'm like, because I'm one of the young ones. I know I can hear it. I see it on my Twitter. I'm like, right, you look watching it. Like you're actually hearing what they call each other. But they're always the nine. No, I don't watch it. We don't watch it. I'm like, how do you know that nickname then? But yeah, everyone, everyone could see what's going on in the like social media like then. And did it start to create cliques and divisions that in the dressing room? I think from the first time I started playing up, there was, there is a bit of like a division but it's not like they're one team, but you'd actually tend to go to like French players with people, the French players, Spanish players with Spanish players, the English players with English players is always the case. Even like now, at full, even though we're very good, very, that one team, the Brazilian state of each other, Spanish, the other each other. And UK boys, that me, your male, Calvin, Seth, we all stay with each other, but we still have good band up with everyone. But everywhere I go is always like that. I think the interesting thing about that, that period with Arsenal fan TV and all that criticism is that people who often don't see football as their human beings, right? They just think they're immune to it. I'd love to hear from a current footballer about what it actually does, the impact that it does have or what it does do to your confidence or your form or your ability to play well. And that stuff is going on when you're sort of in that toxic environment. It's tough for me to understand what actual players are going for because I was one of the young ones then, so I think the most I've probably speak is probably the Danny World Cup at the time and he just says he doesn't care about social media. Even now, he don't really do anything with social media. He's always been like that. But I feel the same. He just locked him up with me. I don't think he affected them that much because they were still coming to training, give 100%. Maybe internally they were going for your things, but I will never know because I was never close enough then to ask them what's really going for your mind. I'm just a youngster just mind him on business. But if we fast forward third round in your career, when you were ever turned, where there was lots of turmoil surrounding the club and the team, what was your experience of that outside noise then? Yeah, that's when I started learning about things. Especially me, London, I used to have a lot more possession of the ball to go into ever and where, if I would respect to ever and back then, their main focus was slid-tacking people, smashing people, running hard. It's never been in my nature. So they used to be like, "Oh, this Londoner's so soft. He needs to focus on getting the ball back. He doesn't want fancy flicker." You know, I'm just thinking, "Oh, I'm trying to adapt here." And for me, even though I went to a foreign country, it felt like a foreign country because of the scourced languages I've been mad for me. So I couldn't understand what they were saying at first. I couldn't understand what they were saying, but one thing about scourced is they're so friendly. They're so friendly, they're so welcoming. But in terms of like, in the team, even though there was a lot of toxic things going around, it's because we want, obviously, we want performing the best off to the standards we know we could have when we had the great players that we did. That everyone was still close to, still things together, we got for meals and everyone was close, but of course we were disappointed in ourselves. We were always coming to train. Everyone was working hard in training. That's one thing we've ever done. Everyone's smashing each other in training. That's standard. So everyone's working hard. So I'll never say anyone was that mentally down, but we just knew that we could do better. It's interesting to know what you say about feeling almost like you were playing a broad when you just moved to a new city. And I think we often don't really give players credit for actually what a difference it makes is suddenly transfer to a new club. People expect you just to pick up and play exactly as you were. What are the challenges of changing football clubs? Yeah, so we'll be right back after a quick word from our partners. I couldn't look once again. I couldn't talk about my experience. I was away at Afcon. I had a good Afcon. I've come back. I've been told by Una Emmery, you get two weeks extra. I've gone enjoy holidays. I'm in Dubai with my family. I'm in a good time. They're San Nicolas Pepe, great players all by the way. Not to say anything about these great players. And I thought, if you really want me, why are you signing up a wing or like, what's going on here? Well, I don't think anything of it. My age had told me it's never not interested. I said, oh, that's nice to hear. Like, no, just so I'm this last nice to hear. I'm in Dubai in the ocean. Minimal signal. My age is calling me. I'm like, oh, he, what you say? He goes, Mark, I'm still supposed to talk to you. I'm not all right. Mark, he's overtores. Alex, we want you to, we want you to think you see our playing style. And I'm thinking, oh, man, like, I appreciate that. It's nice to hear. Then then for the next thing you know, awesome, I've sent off like my medical documents. So before I even get a chance to say yes or no, awesome, basically saying, we don't mind you going. I was like, oh, all right, fair enough. This could be a song. So I spoke to my parents. It's literally my parents and my sister on the board. So maybe it's time for me to step out my comfort zone, become a man, go somewhere different. Anyways, farce word. Landed in London. I've literally had to shoot up north in, I don't know if anyone knows about the Titanic in Liverpool. It was a dark hotel, big room, your bio-self. Just you and your, you and your thoughts. It's so lonely. I was standing there hotel and you're right. Tiny windows. Tiny windows, so dark. But then I'm like, oh, what have I done here? I'm by myself here. Anyways, cool. How long were you there for? Over all. I'll say two, three months, but there was international break. So I wasn't there all the time. And is it hard when you suddenly in a hotel? Yeah, it is because like I've always been an awesome kid. I've always been an awesome, always what I knew. So to go stay in a hotel, I literally just moved out by myself as well. So now I've moved out of apartment and going in a hotel that's dark all the time. I've been indoors with like moist keen. He was, he's English went the greatest of the time. So we didn't even really hang out, but he's my boyfriend. My close friend. But then like, I'm trying to understand what the scouts are saying. I couldn't understand what they said. Do you want something to eat? I'm not used to not eating. My mom's cooking. Like if I wanted to go to the shop, I could do that. And Nana wasn't really, I was half scared to do it in Liverpool. Just to go to the shop. But one thing about everyone like that, everyone made it easy. Well, as long as I'm going to train in, they'll give me food to take home. That was the easy bit. But it's just like, I'm away from my friends and away from my family. Oh nice. Don't worry no one even noticed. Yeah, absolutely. But can I jump in there though, Alex? Because you've sort of skipped over the bit of you in Dubai. You get the call that Arsenal are willing to let you go. You have a brief conversation with Marco Silva. What kind of questions are you asking him? Because it sounds like you're almost appalling this. The club have decided that that's the place you're going to go to, because they'll play the thing. But what are you asking him whether it's the right fit for you? I didn't even have to ask him. He just kept saying to me, you've been to our team. We're going to play you. It's what everyone does when you're trying to, like, you're trying to build things on positive things in someone's head. So like, you're going to play, you're going to play number 10. You're going to do this. You create so many chances for Arsenal. You can do that forever and the players are going to like you. You can show this person. So you just put things in my head. I don't know how to answer that. What's this like? Does it die? Everything's just perfect. That's what you're made of. like, but do you ask him questions about how do you develop a player? How do you give feedback? How are you going to improve me? Do you get chance to do that? No, I didn't get the chance because it was on deadline there as well. So I didn't have there was no enough time for me to ask those questions. Like it was literally, yeah, he said, what do you think? Are you willing to do this? I'm like, give me five minutes. Let me speak with my family. And then they said, yeah, then I come at it and said, yeah, we're done to do it. So I didn't get time to ask like, how's your manager? I was your player management, like, what's the liaison like? What's the training run like? Do you have this facilities? I didn't get time to ask that. But if you had your time again and you had more time, what are the kind of questions based on the experience you've had that you would encourage somebody to be asking, if they're in a similar situation? What's the player care like? As in like, to liaison's, the people you can go to when you're struggling for like, oh, no, for food or if you want to go to, I don't know, supermarkets, you want to go to nearest train station, just things like that because even though I did eventually find out that, but I just think that because in case like whenever I just wanted to feel homesick for example, just want to get on a train and go back to London. But yeah, I think I would have asked that for sure. I get a sense that there was like almost a bit of loneliness in those early days at Everton. You're suddenly one minute on holiday, the next minute, the club you're joining as a boy is basically said, we don't want you. You've ended up, when 24 hours moving to another football club and suddenly you know nothing about the place you're in and you're just down on your own in a hotel. Yeah, it's literally just like that. But if Ernest at Everton, like I said, there were very welcoming, that very, very welcoming. The players, the soul, the magic football club. Yeah, no, even like one person in particular, she must call him a nicest guy ever. Even to this day whenever I see him on a message, you try to buy the nicest guy ever. He definitely helped my time. And how did you cope with the message from Arsenal that we think we're going to let you go? I was like, oh, let me make the decision for myself. I didn't have to do a medical. At least like if I wanted to go, let me say I want to go. They just said like, there you go, here's these files. You know, he's on holiday, like he's good to go. That's what I'm sure you do. You guys really want me. No, you just meant to pep again. You just signed pep. He was like, oh, fair enough, I don't know if I'm really going to play. Then what's crazy? Even though I was like, I just moved. Arsenal played against Liverpool, maybe like three weeks after that. So I'm coming back to my hotel. I've seen the whole team. I've seen Nicholas Pepe as well. I've seen an Inna Emory see me and they pulled me forward, chat saying, it wasn't his decision. It was the club's decision. They couldn't sell any other player and the most money they could get was from you. So I was like, oh, fair enough. He said, this is football that I respect. She has a football player. Even to it, when players, they shake my hand. You ask, have my family. He's a nice guy. But that's mean that made me realize that football is also a business. Just to pick up that's really important point, actually, that as a footballer, you could be made to feel so important. You're having a great money. You're so well-lit after like you're being lured and celebrated millions of followers. But you also pretty much have no control over the direction that your career takes. If your club decides that you're done, you're done. This is a strange situation. Yeah. I mean, you can ultimately say no. Sometimes you get frozen out. I could be asked to be frozen out. So I just took it as my own self. But yeah, it does happen on a lot of football. So you mentioned who and I am right there in terms of that conversation. Your period of evidence sort of then coincided with a number of different cultures. Yeah. Who were the ones that sort of unlocked some finignure and got a potential out of you that maybe you didn't know was there? Well, obviously Mark at the time there was very short. Why you always said to me like, can be a difference maker. It's a shame it happened when he left. But the two that stand out for me were Don Con Ferguson. Because he showed, he himself showed me whatever it was about just a passion. Like he's like a fan. Like he's like one of us. Like he's just, he comes into training. He's just excited. He's given everyone energy and like, well, when he was the manager, everyone was fighting for him. Everyone respected him. Like he was, he's a legend there. So he, he taught me about literally that's given 100%. Because before that, don't get me wrong. I go, give 100%. But I wouldn't go and fly to tackles where he was one that made me do that. Then the second one's everyone. I say all the time Frank Lampert. And he in a sense, I always say he denies it. I say he resurrected my career because it was at the time when you were signed, there was Rafa Benitez beforehand. I wasn't in favor with him. He's a guy that doesn't have any position on the ball. He's more what you do the one. I like to keep the ball sometimes and play. And I was a winger that maybe didn't run in behind an attack in behind the way he liked. So more times on the bench, I was on playing. And then he also had an affquem where I just got a red card. I've came back and I've been told that I'm been to go alone to not a team in Turkey. And I thought, nah, I can't do this. This can't be me. No, just to the team in Turkey, by the way. But then Frank Lampert's coming in literally as my affquem's finishing. And he said he didn't know what to expect to me at the time. He and my Joe Edwards and actually called. They didn't know what to expect to me. They've heard things about me. Obviously they see me in the passport because I was in favor of everyone. They didn't know what to expect. But one thing I'm lucky, I'm always good in training. So I remember Frank and Joe Edwards pulled me forward. He said, why don't you play like this the way you train? He said, "Excellent. Why don't you play like this and match?" I said, "Ah, the way I was told Rafa Benitez just set the ball and try running behind him." He goes, "Ah, play your game." So when we're talking about like being me, Frank Lampert just said, "Be you." And that's literally what worked for me. So when you have a manager that wants you to do something that just doesn't feel natural, it's an opportunity to go, "No, no, no, that's not my game. Let me express myself on the pitch." I tried that. I've called lunch a lot of you. I learned the hard way. Oh, listen, I learned the hard way. Oh, it's a moment of madness from me though. So like, everyone knows how to get on the ball. I like to play football. I like to like, quantum too touched and keep the ball. And he just didn't see me as that player. So then there'll be opportunities for me to play. And I'm playing in right wingback, playing right back, playing right midfield. And he's literally saying, "When you get the ball, which I do get, give it to Hamas Rodriguez. Give it to like a land. Give it to other people." I thought, "I can do something as well." I got something. I got a bit of surely. And then there was one time, "Solcia Medio." I said, "Oh, I wish I could play my preferred position." I put on my story. And he got asked in the press conference. Then he said, "Oh, then he comes to me, said, "Where'd you usually play?" I said, "Well, in the academy, I played in midfield. There's number 10, number eight." He goes, "Okay, we're going to try it next game. We're going to try it against Burley. It was like two and a half times." And Dwatt McNeill, I remember scored a bang. He said, "The highlights. We'll play in the left wing. Play in the left wing in the second half for 10 minutes." Got dragged. I think the next four games I did play again. So I said, "Wow, I don't think I'm ever going to talk up on Solcia Medio, talk up to him again." So what went wrong in that game? I personally didn't feel like I had a bad game. Maybe I did, but I just didn't see it. Because I thought I was getting on the ball, I was playing forward. And I don't, from what I remember, I didn't lose the ball. I'm bringing lots of the ball up twice. I remember counting because I was thinking, "Wow, did I play that bad to get moved on drug of the pitch?" But then he just said, "I didn't have what I feel that he feels that I didn't have the impacts on how much Rodriguez has. He's always going to create something. Maybe I just wasn't doing that." But the same thing he ever about, trust, isn't it? Yeah. Somebody actually trust in you. And it sounds like that's what Frank and Joe Edwards gave you that sense of trust. What does that do for your performance when you feel that a manager just has that level of trust in you? Yeah, for me, when a manager has trust in you, I'm not scared to try anything. Even if I lose the ball, I want to get on the ball again and try and make something. That's the sort of play I would like to make things happen, like to create a chance, like to play the ball forward. So when a manager is telling me just, "Yeah, go do that. Even if you lose the ball, go do it again because we know nine times out of 10, you're not going to lose the ball, you're going to create something." So when a manager is telling me, just, "Yeah, she go do you." You almost fall unstoppable. You fall out every time you get the ball, you're going to do something. Because that ties in with all the research within elite sport. The softened doctors psychological safety, the idea that you can make mistakes and it's not held against you. You know, well, you can make an error and you don't get singled out for it. Yeah, no, it does help. It does help who you're around, you're so long to solve with. I've had different managers, different players around ever. But that time when I had Frank Lampard and Joy was then, I've always had James Cullman saying, "Oh, you're a good player, just to express all the late and beans." Even when we played against ever and recently, he said, "No, it's nice to see that you're free." It had Fabian Delph. No one of the older players that would say it to me, the younger players didn't really say they're not going to tell someone all of them to go be yourself. But the older players used to tell me, like, "You're so good, trust yourself." And when you're hearing it from people like Frank Lampard, he's a legend. And it's from Fabian Delph, James Cullman. These are legends to me. Yeah, just go be yourself, go play. It's like, "Wow, if they believe, why don't I believe?" So if you had to put a figure on it in terms of what a difference it made to your performance, what would you say to us did for you? It does a lot for me. Almost like 50% of my games on that, in a sense, if I don't hear these things or I don't feel trusted, it's still trying to play the ball forward. I probably just said, "The ball, I won't do nothing." I'll never be once I have I had on the ball, I had from getting the ball, but I would probably just set the ball play the safest pass and try to keep the ball within. He's like, now, they'll work that then. So now when I get on the ball, my first four always is to go forward, never to do the negative ball in pass. I always like to make Simon Apper. - So when do you think this was unlocked? Was it Frank Lampard? Was it Levi Hamilton and Joining Fuller and Mark of Silver again? Like when was the moment that the kind of real Alex Andeuro Wobe was unlocked? Because I look at your music, we're gonna talk about your new EP in a minute, I look at your socials, your YouTube. I don't think it's a coincidence that you look free on the pitch just as you're acting free in your personal life. There's like a real freedom to you now. - Yeah, but then again, when I was an Arsenal, I was also very free. And it says, that's when I was heavily on Snapchat. And I was just, that's when my dad was training on Snapchat for just kept us saying safe. So every time he just comes in and comes in and says, so actually I was free at Arsenal. And that's when I was breaking and I was doing well. So when I'm being told to like, tame down and be negative or not play negative football like the others do the job that I feel like I can do. So I just felt like, I'm losing that trust, I'm losing that belief, but like, I wouldn't say I've never had it 'cause before I asked him, I did, but it was nice. That's why I say Frank Resorretti, then brought it back. And it says where I can just be me. I'm playing how I wanna play. And that was actually the time when I started doing music, but I wasn't putting music out back then when Frank Lampold was a manager. - And what's Marco Silva done to continue to feed that freedom that Frank gave you? - So as soon as I signed the same thing that he did to get me to Evan, the same thing he did for me to come back to full-arm saying, oh, leave you, your good player are the same. But it's just nice 'cause he's a good manager, he's a very, very good manager. Like, he always said to me, like, you always believe that I can be a difference, make like that. In the pre-mum, I've always got the stats on creating charts, I'm always like top five, top six. So he said, just do that for us and we'll be okay. And the goals will come, that can actually, the more you get into those positions, they didn't train and I work on my finishing and he said the goals will come. Of course it's changed a bit now 'cause I played a D point midfield, but he always told me to do that and he worked with me after training. So yeah, and now obviously he knew back there, I was releasing music just as I was leaving ever and. So he said, yeah, whatever works for you, whatever keeps you happy, just do it. And I thought, okay, fair enough. A minute and a check by that line that you've used a couple of times in relation to Frank where he spoke about, he was a resurrection. What have you done to protect yourself now because managers come, managers go. So to this idea of being able to immunize yourself against that, what changes have you made since then? What's helped me a lot is actually moving back to London. As much as being up north was very nice, but moving back to London, I see my friends on a regular basis, I see my people on a regular basis. My mum and dad, especially my dad, he will be around the house once a week just to see I am. He says, he says it's to collect things from the house but it's literally just to see I am, it's coming to my house tomorrow. He says he wants to collect documents, he's lying. And then he'll try and say, he wants to see the dogs, he's lying, he wants to see me, I know he's like, but just seeing that my people, seeing my friends being happy away from the pitch has definitely helped me on the pitch. Let's talk about your new EP, "Mortalife". I mean, I think the fact it's called "Mortalife" sums up what this is about. There is "Mortalife" than just being a footballer. So do you look at music and think, one day this is a career, this is the future for me. Like, do you have ambitions to conquer the world of music in the same way you've conquered the world of football? Even with football, the music, I've never looked at that, I'm trying to conquer the world. It's just something I enjoy doing. I really enjoy being in the studio with my friends and just literally playing here in the beat. I was just talking about our lives. That's literally what we always do. So I'm never once thought, I want to be the next trick or I want to be the next little win. But you take that though, right? Of course you would be. Oh, you would be. But yeah, I just like doing what I'm dressed. So even like music, football, charity stuff, I like going to like homeless shelters and seeing the impact it makes just given someone like a turkey that I did last a couple years ago. I like just doing things like that. I never know what's gonna happen for me, but I just do it for myself and enjoy doing those things. So what does that do to you? Because I know that that gathered a lot of press, the fact that you around Christmas went and just gave out food to people that were in need. But I don't think you did it for the press. You didn't do it for the accolades or the cuedos. You did it because it mattered. Why did it matter? That one mattered to me, that one in particular, because it was in Newham. It was two streets away from my primary school. And when I was in primary school, or in Newham at the time, there was not a lot of people doing those sort of things. And around Christmas, obviously the cost of living is increasing. It's a bit hard for people. And I want people to have a great, I always have a, back then I always had a great Christmas. This Christmas I was in Morocco in a room by myself. But usually Christmas, obviously you play football, there's not, but like that element of Christmas, being with your family is amazing. Sometimes people don't have the facilities to have that food to take care. So if I can do anything to benefit and help someone's Christmas, I'm willing to do so. Even that in someone when we do that, the football tournaments, bringing communities together like it's such a great feeling to see the outcome and see how people are just happy to be there. And this might sound a bit of a death question. Or certainly a leap. You know when you say that you're in the studio making music and you're with your friends, what are the sort of parallels that you see in that environment that you see in the dressing room? There's definitely a band-up. There's always band-up. So like, especially with the people I had like Calvin, Cess, Emil, if you have like a bad touch and training, we're letting you know in the change room. If you have a bad lyric in the studio, he will let you know. [LAUGHTER] So like that band are just being free. Don't matter, like everyone gives 100%. Like when I'm in the studio, we'll just listen to the beat and we just think, oh, what we're going to say is the topic we talk about. And we just band on, wherever comes out comes out. In football, the same thing. For the finishing and some schools of bang or they're out for, oh, no, you've done your thing. Or says Mrs. Sontag, like, Cess, bro, come on, man. It's literally that same thing, because that same feeling is having that good vibe all the time. And what are the killers? So let's flip it on its head. What are the killers that can stop creativity or stop a team performing? I guess like, it can sometimes, in football, like if you play against a man's city, you're not going to have the ball. And you're just like, oh, you're going to the game thinking, you're going to have not that much possession sort of thing. But when we believe, we always do well against those sort of teams. Unfortunately, the first half of them, I don't know, recently, we played them and we thought we can't again in too much respect. But the second half, we just thought we ain't going to have to lose now. And we played really well. And we always ask, why don't we play that from the beginning? So it's just that belief. And then the same with music. But you feel like, maybe if you don't hear a beat that you like, I can't go, I've got writers, but I can't think of anything. But you actually just have vibes and ban on. You eventually get to believe that you can do it. So I feel like you just have to believe whatever you do. So whoever you're playing a man's seat, whoever you have a tough beat, you just literally have to believe and you find a way all the time. You know what I've really enjoyed about this conversation is that you're someone that gets your energy and you thrive off the company of others. Like if I think about all the things you've spoken about when you're at your happiest, it's when you're surrounded by others. And actually, when you've been at your loneliest and saddest ridden between the lines, it's being in the hotel room in Morocco at Christmas and being stuck in hotel room when you first time's ever turned and you were lonely. Am I right? Like being on your own is not your thing. Yeah, I hate being on my own. I mean, sometimes it's not as unhealthy, but then I get bored. I've probably been on FaceTime with someone that I just get, I don't know what to do in my soul. Or less like, oh no, I'll go to the gym, just to waste time, just to keep myself active. When I get time to think about my soul, I get bored and start thinking, oh, I'm not going to do, I start playing Candy Crush. (laughter) Actually, so yeah, I like being surrounded by people. Because I've always been surrounded by people in my family, in my household, my friends, it's always been the case. I'm in a my myself, like, this is boring, this is weird. And somebody'd like to say, your EP is "Mortal Life". There's somebody approaching 30. So in football in terms, you've never at the end, then the beginning. (laughter) - Bruto. - Wow. (laughter) What is "Mortal Life" after football for you? - Good question. Well, I'm grateful once again to my dad and my family that I've invested. So wherever I want to do, I can take my sweet time, take my sweet time, but more to life in a sense, where like, I'm not just a footballer, I am human. I like to enjoy the things that other people do as well, as well as football. So that's where "Mortal Life" comes from. I don't know what I'm gonna do after football, but music will probably be a part of it as well. - And is it nice to sit and have a conversation about being a human rather than just sitting being to be about football? - Yeah, of course, 'cause like, I'm not just a footballer. I like to tell people, like, it's a little thing me and my friends say all the time. If someone that doesn't know me, ask what I do, I always say I'm human. What does that mean? Like, then I tell them what I do. They're like, "Are you playing football?" I said, "Well, I also do this." Oh no, how did you. balance it. So that's why I say to you, I'm human. So when I hear conversation, when I've conversation, I always say to people, I'm human first. I think that's so interesting. So you are a man that plays football. You're not a footballer. No, I want to say that. People would deny it. They say you are a footballer. Yeah, I hear it, but I'm human first. Wonderful. Right, we've got some quick fire questions to finish with. First of all, what are the three non-negotiable behaviors, the three most important behaviors that you think we should look for in life? Confidence, confidence and belief. That is a given otherwise you won't get to anywhere without that. I've gathered that. I feel like it's very important that people use to find a self-worth. Yeah. Very, very important. Because I always say about who I'm with, my family, my friends, I wouldn't be where I am today. Also, tough one, the third one. Hard work. But everyone says hard work. Yeah, it's a good leisure. I mean, you can't say hard work. I'll go hard work for safety. Well, I mean, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I was interested when we were researching about your relationship with Saka, her arsenal, and you had some interesting observations about him and humility was something that he said to them. Yeah, because when he was breaking in, when he was starting training the first team, you can always say that he's always had that talent. He was very good like 1v1. He would shoot and look like, but all, it was always an all-moment in training. But he was just very raw. He were polished. But like, he wasn't like, there were a lot of egos coming through to train and especially like London words like, I'm calling it possibly the ball man, but he never had that. He was always like very humble, very chilled. And even the way he is now is the same guy. So, I remember back then when you said, "No, this guy's going to be a player. It's definitely going to be a talent." Because in training, he was very good, but he was also very grounded. So, what age would he have been? I was about 5 years, 40 years younger than me. So, you'd have been like 17 at the time, 17? That's a quick five questions. What's the single best piece of advice you've ever received than my? Express yourself. Always don't be afraid to express yourself. Go ahead from my uncle, Jay Jo Coachwhar and I used to, he said it to me once and then I just literally watched how he lived his life and obviously I'm lucky because he's my uncle so I used to see him off the pitch, as well as on the pitch. I remember one time I went to ball and train in ground and Sam Aladasse, Sirius manager, I wasn't really Joe Corault like that and he's just dancing and he's coming to kick the ball with me and I think Ivan Campell, Kevin Nolan say 'hey hey hey hey GG GG' and he's just like on his own world and when it's Christmas and you're back home, you just dancing and you just have a vibe, he was just the definition of express yourself, always play football, smile on your face so when I'm watching him, I'm just learning to say 'be yourself' so that's what I've got from. What is your biggest strength? I would like to say that I'm positive, I don't like to think negative. If there's a negative phone, something negative happens, I've got from my dad, just think of a solution straight away, don't dwell on the negativity, so I feel like that's my best strength. You're great to this weakness. It used to be listening to like, obviously you have to listen to your coaches, I'm not saying you shouldn't but you said listen to my coaches a bit too much in a sense where like Rafa Bigni has literally restricted the way I wanted to play. So I feel like Sam Aladasse, I could take it by myself and take the ownership of that Sam, I'll take a shot sometimes or pass the ball, play forward, sometimes listen to him like play negative, I feel like listening to the wrong advice sometimes if that's a weakness. What advice would you give to a young Alex just starting out? If you want to achieve, go for it, believe in yourself, there's always going to be people out in the United States saying they're not good enough, as long as you believe you're good enough, then that's okay. And the final question Alex is what does high performance mean to you? For me high performance, I've always said like, play the way you train, train the way you play and you're going to get the best out of yourself. So in training, whether you're doing if you want high performance, you have to work hard, you have to train hard, you have to almost like do you web it takes to get there? So in training, I'm doing 100% and in matches, we're immediately able to give 100%. I love that. Listen, it's been so interesting to sit with the current player who just lift to veil a little bit on what actually goes on under the skin of football, but also someone who reveals to us that he's so much more than just a football player. I think all of us are excited to learn more about your music. I think it's a really exciting thing for the future. For you one final question, what does everyone else think when they turn around at goals and see Alex Roby playing football? I mean, he can answer it because he's there sometimes, but he's not going to answer. I tried to disguise myself as obviously a bit of an issue with his hair. I normally wear like a snowy ball of, and I also went in this summer's hardest to hot, but I normally wear ball of clover, but I remember recently after Afcon, I shouldn't have, but I didn't waste no time. I think of the day of two days after the third and fourth place, I went to probably five of the side goals with my friends straight away. And the kids are like, is that him? Is he back already white? And then they said, what? He would be like, when you're Afcon, like a couple days ago, when you're doing an diagonal, I'm like, so man, I just want to play football with my friends. They're like, oh man, that's sick. Can we play him like, no, you can't play, he's not my sister. You can watch. They watch for five minutes in the lift. I love the idea of you turning up in the ball of clover. Yeah, all the time, especially because it's called summer's a bit harder. What a really fascinating evening for everybody here. Thank you so much for taking the time and ladies and gentlemen, please put your hands together. For Alexi Wobby. [Applause]