Quinn Hughes’ Wild Future Remains Uncertain ft. Joe Smith & Evan Gold

(upbeat music) Minnesota Wild and the New York Islanders, that's what we're talking about today, amongst other issues. Welcome once again to the sheet for this Tuesday, September the 1st. Glad to have you along today, whether you're watching live listening on your favorite podcast platform or in the chats. We thank you for your attention and participation in today's program. And we have a lot to get to. At the bottom of the hour, Evan Gold's gonna stop by Assistant General Manager of the New York Islanders and General Manager of the Hamilton hammers. Great name. He'll stop by. His name was in a lot of whisper circles, as we like to call it over the summer, attacked to a couple of different teams and was employed by the Boston Bruins. Now of course with the New York Islanders, talk about his journey. I've got some questions about the 19 year old rule in the American Hockey League. Maybe he can sort of sharpen a pencil on that one. We'll talk about Alan Dress Prospects. And we'll get his story. I think it's one of those I get to know and get to meet Evan Gold here. In the meantime, gonna talk to Joe Smith of the athletic and a couple of seconds about this Quin Hughes situation, which normally after you do a round of media, the question is, so how did that go? Well yesterday was interesting. How did go Bill Garen? It went interesting. It was a very interesting day for Bill Garen making the rounds and talking about, of course, the hot button issue coming off the kill. McCarr signing with the Colorado Avalanche. What's happening with Quin Hughes? We're going to play a collage. Ask any kid in America where it likes about rock and roll music. I'll tell you, it's the beat, the beat, the beat, the beat, the beat. So we're gonna play the beat that was Bill Garen yesterday and we're gonna play all the hits and all the high notes from yesterday's appearances as you made the media rounds, talking about Quin Hughes. Well, play this collage in case you've been living under a rock for the last 24 hours. Just to give our next conversation with Joe here, some context as we like to say. So this is the best of Bill Garen from yesterday. Enjoy. - If I ask this simple question, are you convinced that Quin Hughes wants to play here next year and for the next X amount of years to play? - No, I don't like answering those questions. 'Cause those are just what ifs and it's like, no good comes out of answering a question like that. - But you have a good relationship with this guy. More than just here, the Olympics, he said all the right things. - We have a great relationship. But those questions to me, those are, I mean, they're just what ifs and I don't like to get into what ifs. - We want him here, the fans want him here. We do not want to lose him. And our fans do not want to lose him. That's why there's concern 'cause they care. - Exactly. - Unfortunately, I'm one of the only ones that's on the inside. So I actually know what's going on, but I can't divulge too much information. As you know, that's honest with you. - Yeah. - Are you when you don't have information you guess and you speculate a lot of times that builds anxiety. - Yeah, that's fair way to put it. - So I feel for the fans and people that really just want to know and get this done. - Well, I can say look it. I have a great relationship with Quinn. I have a great relationship with his agent. We are communicating all the time. I've spoken to Quinn personally. In person a couple times, I've spoken him on the phone. We've had good back and forth. I've had great back and forth with his agent. That's all we can do right now. It's just continue to communicate and we will continue to do that until, you know, until you have to announce your resignation. - Yeah, exactly. - pledge today that if you are enabled, if you are unable to get a contract extension. - I'll never come under show. - For Quinn Hughes, no, and you are then forced to trade him, you'll resign as president of hockey operations. (laughing) 'Cause you can't trade him. You're over a barrel. You have to extend it. You know why? Because you are all in on the original move. - Yeah, basically four number one picks. You can, I know you can get a bushel load from him. You can't trade him. The signal that sends is a defeat. Well, you can, so you're not willing to take the pledge. Doesn't sound like you're-- - I'm not taking any pledge with you. - Okay, that last part was just fun. And you could tell that Gary went along with it. Sharpering the pencil on this one, Joe Smith from The Athletic, who's been all over this story alongside colleague, Mike Russo from The Athletic as well. And we played the hits, Joe. As we like to see in the radio business, play the hits, the kids want the hits. So we played the best of Bill Garren from yesterday. Well, start off with this sort of big question. Like, what out of what Bill Garren said, do you think was most salient? Like, was there one point that you pulled out and said, okay, this is what to pay attention to. - Well, there's a couple of ones, quite frankly. I think one of them was, one of his early answers was, the luxury is, I'm in on the inside. And so I know more than people on the outside. And so I think there's certain things that he can't say, doesn't want to say, doesn't feel as appropriate to say, but that gave him confidence that this thing can get done. And I do think the other point that he made or was asked about Killamakar and the impact of that deal on this deal, he said these two are different players, different situations, yes, that's a precedent or a bar because he's arguably the best offensive in the world and when he uses one A and one B in my opinion, he's right up there, but Quinn might want different things, he's a different player personality, you have to have to wait to see what he actually wants. So those are the two comments for me that kind of stood out there the first one, obviously, but him be on the inside. And I give him credit for playing ball yesterday with four interviews that he does. He does that every year, right? And like, most times it's like a jovial like, that's about his woodworking passion or playing days. And like this is obviously a different tenor conversation. So I just, he handled it maybe different than the other GMs might have handled it in years past. But I think he's a guy who keeps his close to the vest, he doesn't want to talk about it publicly. And so it's the fact that he did, I think try to play ball and give fans, people who are there in answer. I think he understands why fans are concerned or worried because that's an nature of being a fan and market where you have a wonderful play, like the briefs, the briefs off last year with the same thing. - You know, it's interesting too, because in a situation like that, and I do give him credit for showing up. And like you mentioned, he does this and he goes into the lion's mouth and that happens. That's what Bill Garren does. He didn't have his gym, rather, for a moment. Like, there were times we had thought he was gonna be close and he sort of walked right up to the rather, for a line, but didn't step over. But underlying all of it, there was still this elephant in the room and that is the presence of his brothers in New Jersey. And that's, I don't know that that fuels every conversation with him in Patrison, CAA or him with Quinn Hughes, et cetera. But it's there, right? Like it's whether it's up front or whether it's a fog in the distance, that's sort of omnipresent in all these conversations, isn't it? - Well, I mean, I think he was there when the wild acquired him in mid-December, right? Like even before that, when there was, well, the bird made up those comments and stuff, and I think the wild knew at that point, like Quinn wasn't ready to commit to Vancouver. He wasn't ready to give assurances to whoever acquired him, that he was gonna sign an extension there, and that's fair, and that's, you know, the wild in there with open eyes and open arms and bringing Quinn Hughes in. But they were betting on themselves that they can say, hey, the hockey is good here, the market's good here, like if this is a winning team, and they know that Quinn Hughes is a really smart hockey player and he's a student of the game and knows every team's players and prospects and cap situations, they can convince him the hockey is good and he fits good, then they'd be confident that they could sign him to an extension. So yeah, I think obviously the presence of his brothers hasn't changed in the last 10, 11 months, but I'm sure as it gets closer towards free agency, that's where I'm sure people in New Jersey are more excited about that. But I think let's wait until the season starts and if they're not a deal, then you can maybe have a little more concern. But as you know, Jeff, being in the business a long time, there's usually pressure points and negotiations and some are time for a lot of players to get away and do their fun things. And if it gets closer towards camp starting or a season starting, nothing's happening, then all of a sudden, it's just a little more time to hit a panic button than right now. You saw Caleb McCartes signing a couple of days to get with you and he was one of the same guys in the same situation. - Yeah, you know, I'm sure you get the same texts that I do. Probably more since this is your beat, you know, when Hughes follows Shayma's Casey on Instagram or here's another picture of the family. And it's like, you wanna put on your when Hughes decoder ring and kind of say like, is he trying to tell us something? Is this like, is like, you know, tap three times with your knuckles if you wanna go to New Jersey? I'm sure you get the same that I do. Do you read in any of that, or is that just. Look, he's tweeting about his, he's putting out on pictures of his family on social media, like a lot of people do. Our father, I mean like Casey. This isn't the first off season he's spent a lot of time with his family, right? You know, I think that's the pictures that came out on Instagram, either him or the Morgan Wall on concert with his brother in Ann Arbor or just pictures of them at the Jersey Shore or whatever like that. I think that I'm not surprised those are out there anytime since social media low. Like, yes, he loves hanging out with his family. He loves his parents, we're all some people and obviously you know Jack and Luke too. But I don't think those Instagram photos are an indication of like, like does he need to be in Minnesota in the middle of the summer and playing golf at that Boulder, you know, not necessarily. I'm sure that Welfare was a love that he'll be here if I did to be here September 10th. And starting workouts here and still like that and I'm sure the Wopper fans hope that he's signed soon and thereafter, but right now obviously it's not done. So a couple of things here. So one of the questions is, and you know, Bill Garen sort of hinted at this and says like, you know, he's a, he's a different guy and he may have different things that he wants and things that he wants to achieve, et cetera, and he could take that two ways. You can say, well, Kale McCarrer got the bag because he's already got his cup and he's got all the individual trophies and et cetera. So now now's the time to cash in when he's in a different situation here or you can read it just that he wants to play with his family. But the ultimate question is, when Hughes knows this, Jim Hughes knows this, his brother knows this, his age and Pat, Pat Reeson knows this, what does he want? Because like the money is going to be the money, like it's going to be probably somewhere in between Celebrini and McCarrer, like that's going to be, that's going to be his number. We all strongly suspect if any idea, like what he wants, is it he needs Garen to show him that he has the team that can be competitive for the next however many years, like what is it? Like what is it that, when Garen references, he may want different things, what are those things? Yeah, that's, that's hard to extrapolate. I mean, I think obviously I've only been around him a short period of time since he came to Minnesota. So what I want to pretend is to be inside of his head. But I do just from this time I've been around and I'm talking to people from former coaches to teammates and stuff like that, is like he's an intense competitor, he wants to win. Like the gold medal, you know, for Team USA, which just, they hope to tip the iceberg for what could be in this career. And so like he's very passionate about the game. And he has a psychopedic knowledge of the league, and he knows like the one story I'll tell you is the plane flight back when they picked him up after the trade in Jersey. Garen was on the plane with a couple of executives in, in Quinn, and the whole plane ride, like Garen was like, he's talking about hockey, about different teams, about players, about his team. Like if anybody knows who's a better chance of winning a cup or chance to get a cup, I think when he uses a really strong knowledge of the league and the situation. So I mean, I can't speak to everything about like him wanting to play with his family or how important that it is compared to everything else, but he is a competitor. He wants to win. And I guess the key for the while at the last Harvard Marine once was trying to show him, like, you could be a difference maker in us, you know, bringing a cup to Minnesota, which would be an amazing, you know, tricks for life there here, obviously. But I think that's something that they have to, yes, he has to watch the off season. Like, oh, did they get Dillnark? And did he do this? You know, what's the big, you know, what could be the big swing? But he knows this team well. He's been around him. The guys love him. He's been in well with the team at the room. So he knows that. It just matter of like, where do you want to spend the next three years? Like, I don't think it'll be eight, but I think these signs will be a shorter term deal. But you still, that's still a big, four years, still a big pigment is and a guy's career. And I think I don't, I understand why it would take longer for him to decide that. You know, if you ask some songwriters, they'll tell you, you know, one of the great magical words that always sets up a great song is the word if, if this happens, if I could do this, only if I had done that. It gets a great, wonderful device for, for songwriting. Bill Garren did not want to write a song that had the word if in it yesterday, but you and I can. If they can't get Quinn Hughes signed, what then? Does it have to be a trade? Can they say, you know what, what we want is not in there. We're just going to ride or die with Quinn Hughes and then whatever happens next July happens. If this deal can't come together, because I think a lot of people, obviously, Minnesota wild fans wonder about this. If this doesn't happen, what then? Well, I'll have to assist by saying like the intention, the world I've gotten from Quinn Hughes' campus that his intention is to three sign. And I still think he will, doesn't mean that it's guaranteed. But that's a hard hypothetical, you know, for Bill Garren, for his staff to think about. But if Quinn does go to them eventually and say, my intention is not to resign here. I'm going to be honest with you guys, this is not where I want to be. I want to do some sport for the agency or do whatever. The wild would have that formation. And then I think it'd be a hard decision to see whether you, since you gave up so much for him in the beginning with Z. Buoyem and like equivalent of four first round picks. But your team's not going to be better when you trade Quinn Hughes. And this is their window right now. They have a few year window. They have these guys in their prime and top players. So it'd be hard for me to like, it's hard to win at Quinn Hughes trade, you know, especially when you know you don't have as much leverage. So that'd be a hard one for me. I can't say that wouldn't be a possibility that that would consider moving that. But I think that we're not quite near that scenario right now. But I don't think Garren wanted to go there yesterday and I don't get aggregated. I know I've been in this podcast too. So I don't know if I want to go there yet. But yeah, I mean, as your organization, you think big picture and small picture and they go up a lot to get Quinn. Their belief and confidence is that they will have them for a next foreseeable future. It's the attention economy. It's a clip universe that we all live in right now. The one thing that I was thinking watching these clips from yesterday, and maybe if you want to sort of have a whack at this piñata and play, you know, Teemu Bill Garren, go for it. I was waiting for someone to say, do you have a plan if Quinn Hughes won't resign? I mean, I think every organization should or I think they've had them long enough to have that idea, right? Like I think you have to, if you make that move in December and obviously that was more of like a quicker decision because they don't think they realized that he was available until then and you make your best pitch and it happened within a week, right? I think now you have had more time to think about it and realize where he fits, how much of a different maker he was in the lineup, where you want to be as a team in your championship quote chase arc. So yeah, you have to have a plan. So I think I believe that the wild would have a plan for that, whether you can execute it or not or whether that's a plan you really want to go to is another thing. So it's just a hard situation because they have such, they feel like a really good team in a window with these guys in their primes and they're the cap number that they have that they feel like that last year was just kind of a glimpse of what they can do. If you're actually an eco protein, we're healthy in round two because that made a difference in them getting past Colorado. So obviously their hope is going further this year and and be a lot better chance to do that if Quinn Hughes is in their lineup. One more question about Quinn Hughes and I want to ask you about the Minnesota wild and sort of on the horizon and where they fit into a really interesting central division. And that is, what is the fan base doing with this? I'm always I'm always curious because I'm not there. You're there like you know, you know, the vibe, the culture, the fans, how they feel. It's not as if this is a naive hockey community. This is a really smart hockey community like, what are they doing with this? What is the wild and New Jersey fan base doing with this? I think the wild fan base, they are smart fan base like they're passionate like then they've been really patient over the years with this team and hoping for a winner and they are there are there are some sense of nervousness out there and some fans that are worried and I felt the same thing last summer when Caprice off went through this. You know, there was some sense and worry like this is the best player and franchise history to this point like can you can't afford him to for him to leave and all that stuff. So I think I this is a familiar feeling to last year. I think it's a what Bill Garin mentioned yesterday too. He's like I had to talk fans off the ledge last year and look what happened. We signed them and he's here for the rest of his career. So I think that's kind of where you can sense that fans can see how good this team can be. And so to have this type of player like when he used a generational player on your team that gave him all even more credibility and kind of stature around the National Hockey League. The threat of him not being there is definitely something that would worry fans. But I also think that they're very our fan survey for the wild. They were also very passionate and very confident Bill Garin and the staff. And so I think one of those things will end up being you know rewarding the faith. I guess it matters that. Where do you see Minnesota in the central like Winnipeg is kind of a wild card here and we'll see what happens with Conor Halibuk. So I'll bracket them right now. The Dallas stars had to listen they lost a big piece in Maverick work. Robertson reaps for one year but I don't think anyone thinks that that drama is done. The Colorado Avenue. lunch as much as you know when they won the Stanley Cup we thought okay here comes you know destiny time or dynasty time rather for the for the avalanche and and that hasn't actualized they've hit a lot of playoff speed bumps as well where do you see Minnesota fitting into this division and I think obviously you talked big stuff I think too was what they did in the other season true and now they were talking to play so I think they're still lying for that top three spot I mean the third spot I think still you know Dallas and Colorado are gonna be there Winnipeg you mentioned kind of a question mark we'll see what happens with Carter hello Buck and the rest of that roster but Utah's coming you know you know really fast there and they've got a really good team and so they could be a challenge for that third slash four spot and you always have a surprise team right you always have somebody who falls off that you didn't think would fall off so I think the wild know that they're gonna be in a fight for those those spots in the top of the central division they know who that to go through right they had to go through Dallas and Colorado last year and I wouldn't be surprised if they go through those two guys again last one and then we'll let you get on with with your day when fan I think fans when they see like and we'll just use Larkin as a as an obvious example when they see okay he'll only go to you know Florida and Vegas and Dallas like you think okay like it's it's a financial consideration to say nothing of you know living in you know a warmer climb where your body feels great when you wake up in the morning and you open the curtains and it's a shot of vitamin D why why does Minnesota pop up on so many I want to go here lists for those are like wonder like what is it about Minnesota that place where they call hockey pants breezers like what is it about this place yeah people do move from Tampa to Minnesota apparently right so that has happened before eight years past you know we love it here but uh yeah I think overall like the way they treat their players is top-notch I think the fact they are you know more winning team and have a playoff caliber team the way the fact they have superstars you know Caprice off and and Matt Bouldey and Brock Faber is entering that conversation they great players want to play with great players and so I think Queen Hughes made them even more attractive team for players like at Dylan Larkin or whoever else so great place to raise family you've hockey all that stuff is a very the places full all the time right so like good and bad seasons playoff droughts or not playoff drought so there's a lot of reasons for it it just I think they're right or wider the momentum right now and the momentum would only be fueled if they side-quin to a extension here but yeah it's a great place to I mean you have guys the veterans have played forever like the Begotians and the world who really love playing here too so they become more of a destination than they maybe have in previous years or even part even most of their history I think right now last one I lied John Hynes is everyone sleeping on how good a coach this guy is yeah I mean the the world are sleeping on it I mean we believe he'll be excited to extension before the season starts you know Bill Garrins a big believer in him he's just a very detailed you're not a flashy coach he's not the you know big for sound bites in the media which some of us are used to more than others but he's just he's smart he's really good communicator one-on-one with players and knows how to kind of do that knows how to kind of let the root the players take ownership of the room so his details and his simple way simplified messaging is something that really stands out to both management and players and so but this will be the best team he's ever coach I mean talent wise it's side of the Olympics like in the NHL and so there has these more pressure that goes along with coaching a team that is they feel is in a cup window so that'll be kind of interesting to watch the season goes on but he's been what they wanted since he came here after Dean have us and was like go interesting interesting times listen thanks so much for for Papa I'm sure you didn't have you know plan like here we are September 1st and we're still talking about Quinn Hughes but it's it's it's it's it's first of all you've covered this for a long time too this is the wildest summer I've ever seen like if every summer is every summer is like this give me this every year this is fantastic you can do work from the cottage away from the cottage you can have your thoughts up in your hands like so there's trace trace or offer answer whatever makes the game more exciting and fascinating interesting to fans like I think we always say we refer to this story right and that's all we before and so it's a plenty of those around in this league right now well do we'll be doing all of this next year around Conor McDavid just think about that 12 months you're the best thanks for doing this Joe much appreciated hey 80 times thanks so much Joe Smith covers the Minnesota wild for the athletic and does an excellent job alongside Mike Russo who does a lot of the national beat and Joe is the boots on the ground right there with the Minnesota wild and listen a lot of times when when managers are in situations like Bill Garen is in right now with Quinn Hughes they try to be as measured and as sensitive with their words and they try not to be reckless and we all know Bill Garen like Bill Garen is a great interview and he shoots him the hip like there's I don't think it's any surprise that you know he was in Pittsburgh for as long as he was with Jim Rutherford and some of that is probably rubbed off on Bill Garen although he's always been that guy even when he played he was always a go-to he asked him a question he'll he'll give you an answer this one of course a very sensitive situation so I'm not exactly surprised that Bill took things as far as he could Zach I'm curious your thoughts on this one that Bill took things as far as he could yesterday without really stepping either over it or in it if you know what I mean he was he was doing a little bit of a Jimmy Rutherford impression but he didn't go full rather for he didn't go full rather for he flirted with the Rutherford which was kind of funny considering the subject at hand of who they're talking about but yeah no it was it was a it was a very entertaining and listening to Bill go around it with that I thought that I thought that he said more than I was anticipating him to say like my take more than a lot of manager more than a lot of man yes more than a lot of managers what if I can cut you off yeah we're used to a very listen in our lives right now we're very much sensitive to and aware of classic corporate speak and that was Bill Garen yesterday now a lot of that comes up with experience and time in and all that and that's just and that's just garen yeah and and I also want to like add context that we know this is very much up Bill Garen's alley to shoot from the hip as you just outlined but even more so just where you're at and how much was divulged about you know we're gonna make sure we get Carol Capri's off back here next year and then I was like whoa wait a minute and then now I was at Carol Capri's outside the huge ticket it's like okay you'd think maybe the wild kind of took that and said hey we'll we'll hold off a little bit here maybe we'll keep some things to ourselves and then Billy G just goes out and kind of says all that but that was the owner too like where the owner is like now you stand I'm gonna just give him the back I know I know but it's entertaining nonetheless and for us I think that that's the stuff I'll chew up every day I couldn't get enough of watching the clips last night oh they're great they really were and this has been as we mentioned with Joe a couple of seconds ago this has been a really entertaining offseason so much so that we are like scared to keep the to get the feed cold like we want to keep it hot and keep doing shows because there was just so much to go over and I think that I think the Danny Brear offer sheet as well scared anyone I think most sane people in our in our industry at this side of it in media that Brear is gonna do that who knows what's gonna happen next we're just gonna stay on the air so a lot of people had interesting off seasons and our next guest had a fascinating offseason as well he is a Evan gold he is the assistant general manager of the New York Islanders and the general manager of the very cool he named Hamilton Hammers Evan thanks so much for doing this much appreciate how are you today I'm great Jeff hi guys how are you we're good we're good here hey listen I'm not gonna ask you to comment on anything with any any other teams are always sensitive about tampering etc but we're just talking about how you know Bill Garen sort of you know approached a line in his conversations about Quinn Hughes yesterday and then never really stepped over I mean you know you're you're in management and have been for some time how sensitive when you speak publicly how sensitive are you about figuring out quickly where the line is and how everybody at this end of the microphone will have their like Evan gold Dakota rings out and try to figure out okay what is he actually trying to tell us here like how much of that is front of mind when you're speaking I think you guys probably have excuse me more Dakota rings on Bill Garen than you would have on hopefully listen no it's like you guys where I was just listening before I came on with you it's like you guys said it's 2026 there's lots of airtime there's lots of interpretation time the truth is these are sensitive these are challenging negotiations on both sides agent player family as well as for the team yeah there's a lot there's a lot at stake here and and you know again I'll take it out of of another team's context but when we're focused on signing our own players or when you know you're going into sort of one of these high profile negotiations It's critical that you stick on your messages, stick to what messages you want to deliver, what you want to avoid, what's important for the player and his agent to hear, et cetera. It's critical. You know, we were mentioning a couple of seconds ago just how much of a wild offseason this has been. You know, whether it's, you know, offer sheets or massive contracts and trades, et cetera, and it's just continuing now and trade requests, et cetera, I mean, it's been a fascinating summer. And it's been a fascinating one for you as well. And you know, one of the things that I'm curious about is how do you go about selling yourself? You know, I've talked to so many people that are, you know, assistant general managers, for example, who are uncomfortable with the idea of sort of, you know, marketing themselves, marketing themselves out there, getting their name known. And these are like very capable, capable, assistant general managers that should probably be GM's. And you've met all of them. How do you, how do you go about distinguishing yourself or selling yourself so every because everybody got to know your name in the summer? Everybody. I mean, hardcore hockey fans have always known your name. Now everybody knows your name. How did that happen for you? Joe, I don't know that it's ever really been about selling myself from a brand standpoint or anything like that. I've always approached it sort of lessons from my family were just letting your work speak for itself, doing a good job, working hard, being a relationship builder, doing good work for your bosses, being a loyal servant. Those were always sort of my focal points. It was never really about getting my name out, I think that happens when you do the things I mentioned. And I was grateful and honored that a couple of teams thought that I was a worthwhile person to speak with for vacancies that they had. That was flattering. But beyond that, it's really for me, it's about the work. It's about doing good work now here for the islanders, now with Matthew and the group that we've got assembled here. The focus is on the next footstep in front of me in terms of just doing good work and trying to get better every day. I know it's a hockey cliche, you guys hear it all the time from the players, but I do think that's always been my approach. Just be consistent, keep growing, keep learning, get better every day. If someone thinks that that's good enough for them, then I'm flattered and honored to talk about that. The NHL is going through a real change right now. I think a lot of it for players and conversations all about the rising cap, et cetera. There seems to be a change, a palpable change, and the way that I've phrased it from management is like this. The NHL now at the management level is less and less about, "Did you play?" And more and more about, "Can you think?" Where once upon a time, if you didn't grow up shooting frozen cow patties off the side of a barn and swift current, you couldn't run a hockey team. That's all a change. Other sports figured that out first, and now, finally, hockey is one of the dogs at the dish there. When you look at the "modern front office" or where this is all headed, front offices now are large. Now, we've seen large front offices before, but the one thing that I would always look at, as I'd say, "Yeah, this team has a big front office, but it's five of the same guys." Where everybody's seal clapping and good idea boss. The modern front office now is different. You're there, you're inside, you have one of these positions. How would you describe the modern front office or where the front office is going in hockey right now? I agree with a lot of the points and the way you characterize a Jeff. I think it's a positive. I'm biased. I still shot frozen cow patties. I just missed the net more than a lot of people who played in the NHL. The truth is, I think we're following trends that echo across all sports, whether it's the four major sports in North America, the premiership, what's going on in Global Soccer. It's a good thing. We know more now than we've known five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. Technology has played a huge role in that. AI is now changing and superspeeding the impact of technology. All of this is going to go into it. You referenced maybe in one of your earlier questions, some of my peers, people who are certainly capable of running teams themselves, who might not have the former player background. I think we used to call that untraditional or non-traditional and I think, hopefully, that's gone away. I do think I'm biased because I didn't play, so I admit a bias in saying this, but I think there are so many capable individuals who are working and preparing to hopefully run teams themselves one day. The nice thing is at the ownership level, at the president level, the mindset has changed. So yes, there are more roles. More jobs is good for more people to prove themselves and expand its staff, lets you take chances on maybe what we would have called more non-traditional hires. Now you have an analytics GM, I don't think Eric would mind being dubbed that, who is a Stanley Cup champion, right? So that will open doors for people with more of a computer or an analytics spend to hopefully eventually run teams one day. People like me who are more a hybrid, I have a certain educational background, but I've also been in the games for almost 20 years. So there's lots of people with that kind of hybrid approach and experience level that I also think can just be a really valuable skill set to bring to the table. You mentioned AI a couple of seconds ago and I'm curious, the one area that I wonder about when the conversation about AI pops up in hockey is analytics departments. Do you think that AI takes a bite out of them that a lot of what they do can be done through AI? I think you're asking, you're asking this question that's being asked a lot in the mainstream public, right? Which is is AI going to take away jobs or is it actually going to expand things? Yeah. It's a great question. I don't have the crystal ball, obviously the stock market and that marketplace right now is invested quite heavily in it, I'm probably if I were to just give you my uneducated two cents, I'm probably more in the camp that it expands than contracts things. With the amount of data we're certainly now getting and are going to continue to get at the NHL level, I can only imagine that's going to filter down to other leagues worldwide and the HL eventually I hope. So just you're talking about copious data sets that I just think you're going to need both manpower and artificial power as well to plow through. And AI is essentially then based on what you're saying, then AI just becomes the filter for that. Like rid of the noise, drill down to get me what I need, is that accurate? My personal belief, I might reframe it a little, I guess I think of it and again I'm not an expert on this. I think of it a little bit more as AI is going to do the 80% that it would take so long for humans to do, but you are still going to need a human staff of some kind, of some size, of some expertise to then not only check the work that the computers are doing but also add that let's call it human touch. Communication, right? Like it's one thing to have it, I mean, you know this story, like when with the rise of analytics, let's put a target date like 2010, you know, all of a sudden every front office had to have a department or a person. Now many of these reports, as you well know, went underneath the general manager's nose and then right into the garbage. But at the end of the year when the owner said, "Do we have what did our analytics departments say about this?" You could say something because you had an analytics department. The ones that put the premium on it ended up winning Stanley Cups and as you mentioned Eric Talsky, you know, with the Carolina Hurricanes. But I also look at, you know, the Florida Panthers, the Tampa Bay Lightning, like the conversation of ViTest versus analytics, like that one is all gone. But as many people in the analytics community continue to tell me, it's one thing to have produced the raw data and the information, there's still the communication piece to everybody else in the organization and how to use it, right? And that falls under strategy and tactics. I would imagine. Does that resonate with you? Like the communication piece is massive there. It's one thing to have all the numbers and the information, but how do you communicate it so everybody understands it? Absolutely. I agree with that. For me, it's two similarly related points. It's communication, which is what you're talking about, the translating of data and the integration. It's you can hire 10 people tomorrow if you have a Ferrari. sitting in the garage that you're not actually using well you've got a Ferrari in the garage congratulations. So I firmly believe some of the some of the advantages of having a staff are not only the you know just having the bodies and the men and lady power but also the processing power the communication and then really how are you integrating it into your day-to-day workflow? How are you integrating it into your decision making? I think that's where some of the real advantages can come. Okay question about how you felt about the New York Islanders while you were with the Boston Bruins like every time you would see them and I know that a lot of your work was of course with Providence and so we can throw Bridgeport/Now Hamilton into this equation but how did you have and see the New York Islanders while you were with the Bruins? I don't know that it's any different than how I saw them now really which is sort of a transitional team some really good veterans and what appears to be a generational defenseman a really strong goal-tending up you know you know now with Pete here especially I think you know a veteran coach who's had tremendous success pretty much everywhere he's gone so that's what's really exciting for me you know coming to work for a leader like Matthew you know who I've known personally for several years that all of that together and and what I think we could build here is what was really exciting for me. When you look at the battery between the New York Islanders and the the Hamilton Hammers by the way great name you know I look at Peter De Boire who I have a lot of time for going back to his time in the Ontario League specifically with the Kitchener Rangers and you know I just look at like the way that he has his teams play simple things like you know our point shots aren't for goals our point shots are for rebounds that's a word trying to create here like that's always been like a Peter De Boire signature it didn't matter what team he was with that's sort of I believe a core belief we saw it most recently with Dallas core belief of Pete De Boire like do you take that information and for your head coach Jay McKee and Hamilton do you try to harmonize the two like the way you're going to play in Hamilton needs to be the way that Pete De Boire coaches the New York Islanders. I think I'll probably leave those initial conversations between Pete and Jay I will say philosophically at a high level it's important to me that the minor league team mirror the major league team the NHL team with certain non-negotiables I do think you know when you call up a defenseman to throw him into a totally different you know zone in zone structure than what he's used to playing you know for the previous 40 games he's played that's a challenge especially for younger players who might not have experienced different systems so you know again just superficially talking Jeff I do think it's important that the coaches get on the same page of what are my non-negotiables what are the things that our players have to absolutely know how to do it could be system stuff it could be certain things in terms of wall play it could be stick positioning penalty keel things like that I don't know that it's realistic for exact mirroring a h l to NHL and frankly I'm not sure I would advocate for that I think as you move away from the net you probably can have a little more freedom little more you know if Jay has certain things that he has had success with at the OHL level that he thinks you know what I'd like to try this here I think there's certainly a discussion that the coaches can have but those are just my two cents on that. The one with some one of the standard questions of of any AHL team are you there to win or are you there to develop it's not a secret how you know called their cup championships are one with veteran players some high price etc. How do you see the Hamilton hammers like essentially what are they there for my answer to that is we want to develop players for the New York Islanders develop the future of the New York Islanders in a highly competitive environment part of development is winning we want our players to quickly become accustomed to what success feels like both personally as a team member so I do think you can and frankly should strive to do both I know there are times when either outwardly or even inwardly it can be perceived but they're banging into one another and you'll always make decisions based on what you think is best at that specific instance but again we want to compete we want to win hockey games we all are competitive individuals and we want our players to achieve their absolute maximum ability and that's not just the young players too obviously the young players are the future of the Islanders but we're going to have some really important veteran players that might be relied on for very important roles at various points of the season could be in New York could be for helping to develop players who are going to be counted on either in the short term or long run you know on long Island so all of that it's not a way of evading your question the answer is both no listen it makes sense and I because I hate that I actually hate phrasing it that way because whenever I do here and I say to myself you know one of the great things about you know for young players winning is is is feeling what a full season feels like like it's got to be awful if you know halfway through the season playoffs are already in the rearview mirror and your plan you know these potato chip empty calorie hockey games that don't do you any good now flip side of that is yeah make it a challenge to stay motivated and that becomes a mental exercise but I think you're right I think it I think it is it is both because there's a lot of value there for your you know Cushion H'sons of the world like the next generation of of the coal isermons young young New York Islanders the 19 year old rule is an interesting one in the American League this year where CHLT American Ockley teams can can bring on first round provided their first round draft picks 19 year old NHL players and CHL teams can lose more than one I have I have a couple of questions about it I'm not I haven't seen this publicly so I don't know the answer I'm asking legitimately because I took because I don't know does this have these players have to be assigned at the beginning of the season or can this happen in November for example no I don't believe there's any time limit on when it has to happen okay and then as far as if you're going to reassign a player back to junior I'm assuming it has to be before that CHL leagues trade deadline I again I'm assuming that is that correct I think you are correct I believe there's a date in the new agreement where after that date we cannot send the player back to that to that week right so then my follow-up question to that is sorry by my last time we've been talking about the 19 year old AHL for a long time so my other one is could you assign that if it's if it's if the player is having a really hard time at the American Ockley League can you actually can you assign that player to your ECHL affiliate or does he have to go back to junior hockey I'm pretty sure it's an AHL exemption not a pro hockey exemption so I believe it was limited to the American League okay the only the only thing that's funny to me Jeff is we've been able to assign 19 year olds we just haven't been able to assign CHL draft these correct happened to be 19 it's the power of the junior hockey operators it is a little no well I know you're familiar with the CHL and the OHL specifically so I do get I do get the interest in this yeah it is just a little bit funny because if if you if you looked at it from 30,000 feet you might come to the opposite conclusion which is why do we have this role protecting three leagues in the entire world when we don't protect every other 19 year old correct so or if you have if you have Europeans playing in the CHL they could go to the American Ockley because 19 year olds no problem but it's the home grown in a home grown CHL exactly yeah I totally get the history and and I grew up you know going to OHL games as well so I do understand wanting to protect these leagues I think I do think one positive thing is the timing of when we've done this yeah because combined with what's going on in the NCAA I think we've found this sweet spot where the CHL is actually going to benefit and not just quote unquote suffer a loss right gotcha okay listen I don't need to tell you it's a really fascinating time right now in the CHL and division one and the new relationship and the development pyramid I don't know if you have if you have a thought on that one like because listen you grew up with you know CHL top dog and now the the pyramid is like look the world juniors this year for the first time ever like team can does gonna have majority of players players coming from college on the team. Like it is going to, when the lineup comes out and you see where they're playing, TSN will do the shot, it's going to be jarring, I think, for a lot of Canadian hockey fans to see just how many players, it's basically an 19 year old tournament, how many players are actually playing in college. And this happens suddenly and happen quickly. As many, and I sort of grew up watching CHL games, like, oh, this will never happen. And here we are. I don't know if you have a thought on where the development, how the development piece is working right now in hockey, but if you do, I'd love to hear it. - Two thoughts that come to mind, number one for me, I always, I don't believe there's one path that works for everyone, right? It's not plug and play for everybody. So I do think, you know, different strokes for different folks. And I think sometimes we have to remind ourselves of that. And number two, I'm more just interested on what it looks like 10 years from now. When we actually have some data to study in terms of, okay, now what does development look like? Where have the success has been? Where are maybe some leagues, some teams, some other subset? Where are they lagging behind where we were the prior 10 years? So we're just, like you said, and you've mentioned it, we're really on this sort of cusp of this new era. But I'm sort of curious to study where it is if we could hit the fast forward button and learn what we're going to learn 10 years from now when we have some complete data on where were the best development success stories for players? - Okay, a couple of things to wrap up, a couple of quick hitters here, just going into your past. In Brampton, I know that you did some work. I believe all you were articleing with Dale Lastman, you did some work with the Brampton Battalion and Stan Butler, Stan speaks glowingly of you. What do you remember from those early days, you know, showing up in Brampton to help Stan Butler? - Stan is a legend and Stan is being a good mentor for me. Those were really fun days. I'm actually still in touch with some of the staff members that Stan had assembled, cast a character as the owner. Mr. Abbott was a character and a good man as well. And they treated me great. They welcomed me in with open arms. I was just happy being in a rank on Friday nights and Sunday afternoons and tracking face offs and shot locations. I was very fortunate. Those were fun times. We had a lot of fun. I was able to join some road trips. And for me, it was about getting some dirt under my fingernails in terms of, you know, riding buses with CHL age players and learning. - Sure. - You know, how much sacrifice really went into their lives, you know, going to live with billet families and moving away from homes at very early ages. It was not in my personal experience obviously. So it was good for me to see and learn that part of the culture. - You know, I can, Caldubus when he ran the Susamary Greyhounds. They had, you know, on the road. I believe it was the person who did group sales, travel with the team to track things like zone entries. You know, on a list of this is the primitive analytics era of junior hockey team. So you did something similar then with Brampton? - It was as primitive as a God, but yeah. (laughing) - North Toronto hockey school, Stan Bollers as well. And you have a thought on that and a thought on Burger Shack across the street. I believe they have the best onion rings in the world. - Burger Shack is excellent. - I have to have been the worst hockey player in the camp. (laughing) But again, in terms of sort of challenging yourself, getting out of your comfort zone, you know, and the fond memories of it. - Okay, and last one for you, what was the better team? The law school team or Rotman School of Business hockey team? I was told to ask you that by someone who may have been a colleague of yours there. - The Hillcrest select team was the best team. (laughing) - Nice touch, nice touch. Listen, thanks so much for spending time with me today. Really appreciate it. Best of luck both with the Islanders and the Hamilton Hammers, which I can soon. - Thank you very much for having me, Jeff. - There he is. Evan Gold is the assistant general manager of the New York Islanders, and Zach, if you know anything about me, you know, I'm always gonna sneak in a Burger Shack question. You ever go to Burger Shack, by the way? - That's what I was thinking. - Leave it to Jeff Merrick to ask a, and now general manager of an AHL team here in Hamilton about his experience at a Burger Shack. - He's right, though, right? Like, what did you hear from Evan right away? Like, Burger Shack is an institution, right? It really is. Like, Eglinton and Abby are really good. - Well, let me search this up. I don't think I've been there. - Have you ever played Neutrono? Neutrono, I mean, Neutrono Arena is famous for, and his name is mentioned on the voicemail. And I believe, I don't know who it was from his fan, but someone from Tom Wilson's family, 'cause Tom grew up playing at Neutrono Arena. And when you leave a message there, it's, you've reached the offices of Neutrono Arena, a home of Stanley Cup Champion 2018, Tom Wilson, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Took the cup there, too, after he won. - What, you went to Burger Shack, didn't you? - I've never been here. I've never been here. I'm looking at pictures of it. I've been to Johnny's Burgers. - Oh, that's a standard. - Yeah, yeah. - That's it's a big park and shepherd, I think? - Yeah, Johnny's is great. - That's a, you know, who dined out there? On the regular and still raves about it, Kevin Weeks. That was his though. - Really? - Yeah, Apache was mine in the West end, but Johnny's, Johnny's was Weeks, he's, yeah. - I'm still not convinced that Johnny's isn't a front for something, and there's some unrelongering going on. - How serious, but unbelievable burgers. - Well, when I used to work at TSN, when they used to have their offices up at Vick Park and Shepherd, when I was working at Off the Record with Landsberg, that was our staple, like, man, like, every day almost. We were at Johnny's for something, a milkshake, fries, burgers, whatever. That was great spots. - Unreal spots. - Unreal spots, yeah. - All these people in the chat are like, anybody outside of the GTA's? - I know, I know, this guy's talking to me. - This is a great one for like Leafs Morning Take. It's a great combo for Leafs Morning Take. Toronto burgers stories. Listen, this was a, I got, I mentioned it a legitimate, like, this was a fascinating summer for Evan Gold. There was, you know, the Vancouver situation to Toronto, as well, I am always interested in, you know, what the modern front office looks like, and now that, see, here's the thing, because valuing and investing in an analytics department was, for a lot of teams, a superpower, because other teams just wouldn't do it. They would have an analytics department, but as I mentioned, reports right into the garbage, not interested. I can tell if the player's good, just by looking at him. - So the advantage that other teams had, I'm just strictly the arrogance, was evidence, and you know, like proof of concept, proof of player, more than anything else. But when everybody has that, and everybody has, like that war has been fought, and it's over. What advantages do you have? Right, like, what are the advantages, and say what I'm asking is how do Carolina do this? And they have an entire organization that's fully bought in, to all of it, and they're focused, and they're disciplined. I mean, how many times has Talsky been on the show talking about specific players that can and can't play for the Carolina Hurricanes? It's not to say they can't play for other teams, they just can't play for that team, and there's luck along the way, and there's health along the way. What Talsky said, like, we turned over 12 players, and I'm 12 for 12, I know I'm not gonna keep adding 1,000. - Yeah. - It's one of the things I don't want to talk about in that is luck. But like, what are the advantages now, now that everybody's bought into this? Like, you look at, you know, you look at your team, like, trying to, like, look at that front office. - It's massive. - Yeah, which they basically turned over entirely here this summer, also, as a side note to that. - Yes. - Yeah. - Yeah, you're right. - It's huge. I'm just curious, like, what are the advantages that you have here? - Yeah. - Fascinating guy. - I thought he was very, I thought he was very interesting. I thought the, there's two things that stood out to me. One was the quote about, and maybe as the quote itself was the flashy part of it, that I was like, "Whoa, wow, he said that." I was like, "If you have a Ferrari, but don't know how to use it." Like, it's great, it's gonna be rushed, but you don't know how to use it. - There's a Clips Act in a time like that. - I love how you just think about like, "Okay, what's gonna be the Clip?" I have a feeling the Ferrari Clip is gonna be the one from Evan. - Yeah, you, it's funny, the more we've worked together, I think we've both robed off on each other where I know there's times where you're like, "Oh yeah, it's like that, is that gonna be a good clip?" Well, that worked for the Clip, you're asking me, and like, "Yeah, yeah, that worked for the Clip." There's times where I'm like, "I gotta stop thinking so, like, TikTok brain, where everything's just these 30 to 60 seconds segments." - Resistance. - And think bigger picture is like, listen, look at stuff. - Listen, resistance is futile. I try to make it a combination of like, more sort of like longer form, thoughtful things, but I am in the back of my mind because we do live in a Clip universe. What's gonna get a Clip? We all do now, like this is just part of the job. Like, I'm sure you get plenty of, you know, younger people that are just breaking into the, or wanna break into the industry, and how do you do it, and what advice would you give, and what was it like when you first started? Like, you must already get that now. Now that you're way more sensitive. established when you started, obviously, and one of the big changes is now we don't think long form as much as we think short form. These are long form programs, an hour long podcast, usually an hour long, hour plus. You know, we don't have this sort of authority of scheduled breaks and time, dictating what we do, but at the same time, it's a clip universe. - Yeah. - It really is. It's a clip universe. - Yeah, but now I'm gonna change, I ain't gonna change. - No. - Do you pay think going back in the tube? - No, it is not gonna change. It's gonna get more and more and more fast paced, and a little bit more ADHD, I guess, that's what my brain works, that's what's gonna happen. But the other one that was brought up was, it's Stefan Rossner tweeted this out here as well. Appreciate Stefan for putting some stuff out. - Everybody should subscribe to the Almonters. 100%. - But one of the things that stood out and that Stefan pointed out on X now was that Evan brought up the fact that he found it important that the minor league team, Hamilton, was going to mimic the Islanders, but you know, he wouldn't advocate for mirroring the Islanders. - And I just thought that was interesting. Like, it's a minor thing there, or like a small thing to include. But he was like, yes, we will mimic, we won't, but it wouldn't say mirror. So that was interesting to just play out. - I am sensitive to the idea that, there's gonna be different styles of players, and you can't turn, you know, you can't turn coalizer men into Bohr-Vat. Right, like you're not gonna try to have everybody playing the exact, the coalizement has to be coalizement, 'cause Sean H. Asin is not gonna play defense like Tony DiAngelo. Like everybody has to have their own personality and you have to bring that out. My only sort of point was like strategically. Is it gonna be similar to how DeBoer coaches? - Yeah, and I completely get that out. I just thought it was interesting the way he answered and put it out there. And you know, the other thing that I thought about, and I think it more so kind of came to light with it after probably having gotten to meet Jamie Key was even in that question, Jamie Key's not Pete DeBoer. - Oh, like, it's not a carbon copy of the coach. They don't have the same style in terms of their personal relationships, in terms of their communication skills, in terms of their exes and no. It was like, there's no point of making everybody on the minor league team. All have to be the same as the NHL team. It's not gonna hurt. - It's so hard to be an NHL coach and here's why. - When you're in the American league, nobody wants to be there. Everybody wants to be in the NHL and you're close, right? And in the ECHL, nobody wants to be there. You want to be in the American league. Everybody wants to be that one step higher. So how do you distinguish yourself from your coach in the American oculi? You win. You win. Oh, he won in the American oculi, so he's gonna get the bump up. Same thing in junior hockey. You win, but when you're an American oculi coach and it's developed, the players develop the players, so I don't want a veteran in that situation and I know it's late in the game and you're sitting on a one goal lead. But I want my 21 year old defenseman to know that pressure. So you gotta put him on the ice. Not the guy who's 30, who's been through it a million different times so you know that it's gonna be a safe play. It's gonna be so hard as a coach. Do you be like, I'm paid here to win. I am paid to develop. But if I'm gonna distinguish myself to take that next step, gotta win hockey games. - Yeah. - Interesting spot to be. And I know that there's different ways to approach it as well. I've watched different coaches in the AHL level, handle players and situations and rosters, different ways because they are trying to accomplish what you just mentioned. They gotta win. They wanna keep their jobs. They wanna get to the NHL. They wanna stay around. - But it is. - I thought it's point about like, they're not like the idea of developing and winning are not mutually exclusive. And again, I always come back to the point like you want all of your kids to know what a full season feels like. So when you finally do have it, it's not a shock. You're just like, yep, this is how you pace yourself through a successful season. There is that, I think that is a skill. Like that, I believe it. And it's one of the skills that we don't ever really talk about, to be honest with you. How do you pace yourself through a season? So you can not just survive but thrive and get to the playoffs and then still have something. That is a skill. It's a skill of, it's a mental skill. It's a discipline that not all players have. Just so many, man. You know how hard it is to make to the NHL? Like, they ever just sit there and think what all the things that have to go right and all the things you have to do. And then like, you'll think, you know, two days later, oh yeah, well, there's also this thing too. And you hear a conversation like, oh yeah, there's that as well. Listen, I'm dumb, but here comes a dumb statement. Get into the NHL's hard. It's a really, really good league. And a lot of people want to stay there because it's awesome. It is so hard to get there. And you have to do so many things right. And how many guys, again, I'm so close. And I'm sure you've skated with guys that are like, this guy's incredible. Like this guy's got NHL skill. What's keeping him from that? And then you realize it's not just about the skill. There's so many skill players, right? Sometimes his environment lock all these different types of things. Like, I'll tell you a story. I remember playing, it was a Sunday game. I got a bunch of psycho buddies when I was living in Toronto. And they would play this Sunday night game at McCormick Arena in the West End. I love McCormick, right? And Parkdale's great old barn. Man, do I love McCormick? Anyway, they used to play a game called Game 7 at 7. And it was like Sunday nights at 7 o'clock. And it was hardcore. And these guys would like, all these guys, most of them played in the coast. My buddy Colin played in Germany. A bunch of guys said, but they played Prohockey, okay? And I remember there was one team in the Game 7 at 7 league that I played in. And trust me, I had no business being in this league. I was like, Colin, like, what are you doing? He's like, no, why are you doing great? You're doing, I was terrible. Like based on like the skill set of these guys, I was like, I had no business being in there. But Colin's like, nah, you're my deep partner, but you're my deep partner. Pete Sarno, okay, who I believe led the American league and scoring a couple of different times. I think with Manitoba and then I think with Syracuse, people will check me on that, I'm sure. And I remember being on the ice of them and going like, this guy is phenomenal. No one can do, if Pete Sarno can do whatever he wants, no one can come close to him. His pivots are incredible. His acceleration is elite. His shot is like, good luck stopping that thing. Like he's like, I'm like, this is the best player I've ever been on the ice with. Pause and he'll never play in the NHL. Yep, and then you realize just how good those guys are. It's insane. I'm sure you play like American Hockey League guys. We are like, how's this guy not in the NHL? How's this guy not in the league? Right? Yep, seeing them train with them, like whatever played men's league with guys now who in the summer leagues, they, you know, they come back from playing pro in some other league, whether that be in the Dell or the guys in the KHL or whatever, you're looking at them. You're like, what the hell are you doing playing anywhere but North America? Yep. There's a lot of good players. How did players get there? Who was it that turns to Aldi, Mason Marchment? Is it Mason Marchment that did it to you? Yeah, I just have to spin us. Yep, I just remember stepping him stepping down. I'm like, keeping the gap, keeping the gap and just drops the shoulder inside. I'm like, okay, and then he just drops it outside and I went, oh, I am done. This is, there's no recovering from this thing. And you just hear, yeah, that's, hey, you know what? Hey, that's on me. We'll get better from this. We'll move forward. And ASCATED it back to the bench was just like, yeah, I just made a sandwich, who cares? That's it. Yeah, that was, yeah, I just woke up now. That was a warm up, Drill. Woke up from a nap, two nap fillings. All right, that's enough of us today. We are back on Thursday. The newly moved Greg Wysiansky. Normally, Greg joins us on Tuesdays here on the program, but today's moving day for our boy Greg Wysiansky. I think he moved like four blocks down from where he lives now. So it's not like a massive move, but still, like, I need more space. Like, you're not gonna have like, you know, your newborn sleeping on the, you know, on the, on the, on the, - Stowe. - Wherever they sleep. - Stowe. - Stowe. - You know, like the oven drawer. And the oven door. I just like to sleep like, they need more space, all right? So they got more space. We'll talk to Greg on Thursday here on the program. And who knows what will happen by then? The hellabuck of it all. The Quinn Hughes of it all. The Adam Fantilly of it all. The Connor Hellabuck of it all. Like, they're still so much to get to here before we get to training camp. Thanks so much for joining me today. Much appreciated joining us today, me and Philly. We're back on Thursdays as I mentioned with Greg Wysiansky. Thanks for listening on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you so much for watching. Please do all the fun stuff that we ask you to do at this point of the show. And that is these subscribes and the likes. [BLANK_AUDIO] the thumbs up and all of it because it all accounts from our little corner of the mediate universe. Enjoy the rest of your day and now that we go off air like something massive will happen because that's just the way that it works. Enjoy it. We'll talk about it on Thursday, one o'clock Easter right here on the sheet.