Qualcomm CEO Cristiano Amon: Future Of AI Devices, AI Fashion, Blending Reality and Computing

What does the AI device of the future look like? Let's ask the CEO building the chips that will power it. That's coming up with Cristiano Amon right after this. Michael Lewis here. My best-selling book The Big Short tells the story of the build-up and burst of the US housing market back in 2008. A decade ago, The Big Short was made into an Academy Award-winning movie and I will bring it to you for the first time as an audiobook narrated by Ura's truly. The Big Short story, what it means to bet against the market and who really pays for an unchecked financial system. Is as relevant today as it's ever been. Get the Big Short now at pushkin.fm/audiobook or wherever audiobooks are sold. Welcome to Big Technology Podcast, a show for cool headed and nuanced conversation of the tech world and beyond. We are here at Davos at the Qualcomm Space and we have a great show for you today. We're going to talk about the future of the AI device. We're going to talk about what an AI PC is and whether anybody is going to want it. We're going to talk about the data center build-up robotics and industrial AI. And here to do it with us is the perfect guest, Qualcomm CEO, Cristiano Amon. Cristiano, great to see you. Great to see you too. Very happy having this conversation with you. Definitely, it is a perfect time for us to have this conversation because talk of an AI device is going from theoretical to concrete and Qualcomm might be at the center of it. So let me give for our audience if you're new to Qualcomm, a little bit of an introduction to the company, $170 billion company. So it's very big. It's the designer of the Snapdragon chip, which is in mobile phones, notably high-end Android, also PCs, autos, and increasingly wearables. There's also the Dragon Wing chip, which we're going to talk about, which is in industrial use cases like robotics, and you just got into AI data center building servers for AI inference. So a chip designer really at the center of the AI story, whether it comes to wearables or in the data center. I like that. OK. Very good. I think that's a great introduction of Qualcomm. Maybe I just add one thing to it. I think Qualcomm is a very unique semiconductor company. I think especially in today's environment when connectivity is important, computing is important, AI processing is important. One of the few companies they had all of it in under a single roof. And we're probably one of the few semiconductor companies that go from five watts to your earbud now to 500 watts when you think about a data center. And it's an exciting time for the company, also exciting time for technology, since AI is going into everything. And designing the chip for the smartphone has put you in a very interesting position. Because as we all start to imagine what an AI device is going to look like, obviously, when it comes to AI, the compute underneath is really important and you're in position to do it. And recently you've talked about how your belief is that the market opportunity for an AI device. And we're going to get into what the form factor is going to look like. But the market opportunity is 10 billion devices, which would make it bigger than the smartphone market. How do you get to that number? So it's interesting. And I thank for you to get to that number. It's actually important to see how the smartphone had evolved over different generations. And I think you have a couple of things. You have the evolution of phones. You have the evolution of compute. And then how AI changes that going forward. And maybe I'll take us a little bit into that journey just to talk about it. One of the biggest change-- I won't go all the way back to 2G-- but one of the biggest change that happened in the phone industry. When we develop broadband into cellular-- and we said, we can have broadband speeds. We realized that on the other side of the broadband, you need a computer. So your phone need to become a computer. And you need to develop a computer that will fit in the palm of your hand. And that's the smartphone. That's the smartphone that changes computer forever. Because this is our inseparable device. We carry with us all the time. And it has been a dissenter of our digital life. Now, as you keep advancing, I think, and smartphones right now, we are in the billion. Every single year is 1.2 billion phones, our purchase. It's the number one consumer electronics. And everybody has one. But when you start thinking about what's happening with AI, and especially as computers using AI now understand us, then you start into not only the computer that you carry, but also the computer that you wear, especially because if agents are going to be useful for you, they're going to be with you all the time. And then you start to go from carrying your phone to also having a glass or a ring or bracelet or watch, and all those things. But they changed the nature of what they-- of wearable used to be. Wearable was-- when you talk about wearables and technology, was designed to just extend your phone functionality. Like, for example, yes, you have a smart watch. We'll tell you the time, but also give you now your sensors back to the phone and give you notifications from the phone to you. But that's all going to change. It's all about connecting to a model, connecting to an agent. As those things change, and we all are going to start wearing those things, then you start to think about big numbers. If you have-- everybody has end up getting a watch or ring on a glass. It's not connected to an agent. Then you're talking about order of magnitude as big as the phone. And I think that's exciting. That's how we think about the future of the mobile industry. But here's the question. The question is, why does it need to be wearable? I was speaking with Sam Altman right before the end of the year. And now, opening eyes is going to build a family of devices. But the rumor had been that it's going to be a smartphone-size device, no screen. And it just listens to you. And then it will push you notifications about your life. And I was like, well, why can't it just be an app on the phone? Why does it have to be wearable? OK. It doesn't have to look. We're working with them. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you what it is. What are the new barriers to? You will see, and it's going to be exciting. What's going on? But here's-- we need to be thinking about this a little bit different. Wearable is one of the things. It's going to be more. So I'll start first as answering your question. This whole category of personal AI devices is humans already decided what they're going to wear a long time ago. So I don't think you and I are going to be wearing a big helmet. I think we can wear glasses. We can wear jewelry. So humans kind of decide what they're going to wear. And you can put-- you can make-- that's our job to make electronics very dense. And a lot of computing power and small form factors come from a phone DNA. And you can put electronics in all of this. Plus connectivity connect to an agent is going to be very useful. But you could have something in your desk. You could have something in next to your bed. You can connect to agents in different devices. And I think what we'll see, everything will become smart in one way. Because the biggest fundamental thing is that now the computers understand what we see, what we say, what we write. And that changes a little bit the human computer interface. And with that changes the whole definition of what the computer is. So wearable is the most logical thing to us because we're thinking about mobility and things you're going to carry with you. But you could have things in your desk. See, the way to think about this is, let's think about devices. They get caught in the transition of technology. For example, you have a laptop right in front of you. And I can bet you right now-- and I see it's cool, empowered-- I can bet you that the laptop has the ability for you to touch the screen. But you probably don't touch that often. You use the keyboard. That's what was designed for the user interface was designed for this. You touch your phone. Now, the phone, when you pull your phone out of your pocket, you're going to be touching and going to apps. It's not very natural for you to point in the phone like this to try to record images. Glasses are. Your head moves, camera moves off you. Maybe you can talk to the phone. Maybe the phone is here and you talk to it before you pick it up. So therefore, there's going to be other things to going to be in your desk that you're going to talk to. So we don't know how those things are going to pan out. But I think going back to your question, where is this logical that where are both going to be things that we'd be wearing and carrying around? But help us flush out a little bit about what this experience will be like. Yes. I mean, obviously we're not there yet. And we've had many stops and starts. Google Glass was an example. People were wearing computing on their heads a long time ago. Now, it seems like the technology is actually getting there to the point where maybe it will be useful. Maybe it can make sense of our context. So, Cristiano, when you think about, all right, I'm going to put chips in glasses and maybe some other different formats. And people will use them and have ex-experience. What is that experience? Yes. Let's talk about the experience. And now we're going to break this conversation. I'll talk about the experience. And now I'm going to talk about the technology. goes behind it. So think about how glasses are performing today. You have, for example, the meta-rayband glasses. I think there's going to be other glasses coming within the Google ecosystem this year. And what are the glasses doing today? Like you have cameras. So you see what you see. You can understand the image. It cannot rotate the image. And you have a microphone. It has a speaker. May or may not have a display. You have use cases, even with the display. Like you have the meta-rayband glasses. What do the experience look like? You're going to be, first of all, for those things to be to get scale, they have to have very low friction. And the experience has to be useful. Otherwise, it's like a gimmick you're not going to use it. So the experience is going to be like this. I am talking to you. And then let's say I see somebody in the audience. And I just said, who is this person? And the glass will tell me, I don't know. Let me check. I check on the web. But it's this person. Here is this is this person name. I said, oh, OK. Yeah, you met her before. There was an email that was sent to you from this person. He has to be something like you have your friend with you all the time. You walk on the street. And I said, what is this? This is what it is. Or even something like you go into your day and your agent is going to come to you and say, I noticed that right now you seem to be free. Can I talk about your agenda? There's a conflict we need to resolve. Those are examples of how this experience is going to be. It's going to be this agent that it has ability to understand your context. I understand what is around you, what you see, what you say, and react in real time. And what is interesting is we're not there yet, but you see the beginnings of the change. And I like to do parallels. So I'm going to go tell you the parallel with the smartphone. When the first time the smartphone arrived, like when you saw the iPhone or so they Android, maybe-- I don't know. I may get this number wrong, but maybe like there was 10 apps. And you say, OK, those are the 10 new apps. You couldn't at the time imagine that you're going to have probably hundreds of thousands of apps. And if you probably look at your phone right now, you have a ton of apps. So your phone got better over time because all of a sudden, the new app became available in the App Store. And I think that's how it's going to be with those agents. Eventually, the agent gets integrated with some other service. And you started to see it. For example, we have a customer of us in India that is doing smart glasses. They integrated with the digital payment system. So now you can look at a QR code and say, pay this. And it will pay. And so you go from-- translate this, explain this to me, pay this. You can get a bill. And you say, I got this bill. Please pay this bill. Get out of my checking account. Notify me when it's done. And you may take a picture and email to me because I want to keep a copy of it. Those are going to be how you're going to interact with those computers. And that's what the experience is going to be looked like. Is there a world where we get too close to computers where you think about sometimes that free time is really nice? And now the agent's being like, aha, he has a moment. I'm going to go and help him resolve a conflict. Or I'll help him understand who this person is, as opposed to them, him going up and asking who the-- have we met before? Does there eventually come a point where humanity and computers come too close together? That's a good question. And I think-- I don't know the answer to the question, but I think like everything, it's going to be for you to decide. Look, there are some of us, not all of us, sometimes just put your phone down. And it's going to be like that. You're just going to have to decide when it's time to disconnect. But I feel it's going to be a little bit different because now we are going to-- it's going to be easier to work with computers. And the computers are going to be easier to work with us. And I'm going to use this question that you asked me to tell something funny. I wasn't in CES. And also having a conversation with a customer Qualcomm about this exactly this thing, about the smart glasses and the camera. And the fact that now the camera see what you see and can annotate the image. And then somebody said, what if sometimes there are things that you want to forget? And then the S was, well, you made, but the AI won't forget. But those are going to be interesting things. Like with technology, I think how humans are going to use it and how those are going to be developed. We're going to see it. The natural extension of this conversation is as AI becomes more powerful and humanity comes closer to AI, there's going to be people that are going to want to say, let's just bring us together. Elon Musk has talked about how the reason for building Neuralink is bringing computer interface company is-- he said eventually AI is going to get more powerful than humans. And we better merge with them or they're going to destroy us. So I want to just ask you, would you merge with AI? No, but look, in the conversation that we just had, we're talking very consumer centric when you said about too much technology. But it's easier to also understand when you move from the consumer to the enterprise. If you actually think about the fact that if you have the ability to learn everything in real time, like we're actually seeing some use cases right now, especially for industrial when you have somebody that is an operator of an equipment or a refiner or everything. And then all of a sudden you have this agent with you that you get to a particular equipment. And you say, how do I operate this? And I'll say, here's how you're going to operate it. You do this, you do that. So the ability for you to have access to knowledge in real time, I think there's incredibly-- incredible opportunity to actually democratize knowledge and learning. So that's another thing about the connection between AI and in terms of augmenting human capabilities. We can say that because we saw that with phones. With phones is how many nations got access to the internet and became access to digital to the phone. They wasn't to a computer. And I think it is incredibly empowering to have people to be connected in a ability internet. I think maybe that's going to be the same thing with those personal AI devices. OK, I'm going to move off this in a second, but I ask if you'd merge with AI. You said no very quickly. Yes. Why the reflexive no? Because look, it's different. I think it's fun. I think people like to have those stories about science. I have a very clear belief. I think there's humans, there's humanity. AI is our creation. It's trained on the stuff that we do. I think if we look a lot of those models. So it's really a tool designed to augment, but it won't take away our humanity. OK, very quickly on form factor. You've mentioned glasses a number of times. You didn't mention earbuds. And when you think about the way that this competition is shaping up, you have different companies making different bets on different form factors, especially when you look at the tech giants. Big technology, as we like to cover here on the big technology podcast, you have Meta making a big bet on AI-powered glasses. Google, as you mentioned, I think we're going to see a very big bet from them. Google Glass Part 2, maybe the Leavenew name. Apple might be 2027 until we see a pair of glasses for them. Maybe their big bet is going to be the AirPods. Now, AI, you already is delivered in the AirPods with things like Translate and Meet Series inside there, but still has some work to do. And maybe they'll do it with their Google partnership. Why do you think glasses over earbuds? Look, I won't say one over the other. We have the benefit, Ivanka Bin. I will assume the majority of the companies that are actually building, personally, AI devices. We have, I think, the benefit. We've been working with them, so we have a pretty broad visibility. Like I've given an example, there are some companies where now they're designing a new earbuds with a camera. And your earbuds with a camera? With a camera. Because if you put an ear ear and you have a camera, you can see in front of you. So it can provide some context in addition of having it just a speaker and a microphone. I think it go back to the House Towers conversation. What are the things that humans are going to wear and wear most of the time? Glasses, I am a believer that glasses is the most natural. And maybe because I wear glasses and so is 13. So I'm used to them. But when you turn your head, a camera goes with you, it's close to your eyes. You should think about this. This is, I should have thought about that when you ask the question about wearables because that's the most important thing. most simple way to answer that question. If the AI understands what we see, what we say we're here, it's gonna be closer to our senses and glasses that captures everything. It's closer to your mouth, close it to your ear. But earbud, it's the same thing, is just missing division, and that's why some people putting a camera on an earbud. But if you just have an earbud connected on IP address, you can connect to an agent and you can have a conversation with the agent. - What about pin? - Same thing. It's another way to put a camera on it. There's pendants, there's jewelry. So it's, we'll see, but I think you're gonna see people experiment with the form factors, I think glasses is likely gonna be the primary way that those devices are gonna be built. - So let's say glasses is the winner. Do you think that style matters? Let me give you a binary here. I have the more stylish glasses with the worst assistant or the less stylish glasses with an amazing assistant. Which wins. - This is a great question. This is a great question because we're gonna see another thing happening in the industry, which is, when you start thinking about wearables, then you're gonna have the mix of fashion and technology. And I actually think I'm gonna make a prediction here, I don't wanna be offensive to any other company, but I think that's where horizontal model is gonna win versus vertical model. In the reason I'm saying that is because it's very unlikely that everybody on earth is gonna use the same exact glasses. People want different form factors and want different colors. It is different. It's the same, especially things that you wear. As a result, I think you're gonna have different brands. There are going to be, it will be a little bit of an interesting dynamic because is that a Ray Band? Or is a Ray Band are you wearing? Or it's a meta? If it is a Ray Band made by that consumer electronics company, is the consumer electronics brand or is Ray Band Wulsey? But I think you're gonna have the combination of fashion and technology and there's gonna be choices. Different brands for different people, from different age groups and et cetera. So I think that we're gonna see a lot of diversity. Very unlike the phone space when most people will carry a similar phone, I think that's gonna be different. - I'm gonna answer my own question. I'll take the better assistant and the ugly glasses over the nice glasses and the bad assistant. - Yeah, the best thing is maybe the most successful glasses is gonna pair with the best assistant. Eventually, you would think we get there. - Yeah, I think so. - Handicap the AI device race for us. We have many companies that are running at this. We have a meta that's been making this multi-year metaverse bet which has really transformed into the smart glasses bet. We have Google which all indications are, I mean, if you look at their recent thinking game documentary, they're just like pointing their phone at things and saying, "What is this?" It's like you need glasses. You have OpenAI, you're working with OpenAI on this project. Family of devices that are gonna be in a bunch of different places and Apple obviously has to be considered a power player here as well. - Who wins? - Look, I'll answer this question by going into the beginning of the internet, right? So, work put wasn't the social media that won and that being a Facebook and then later Instagram. I think MapQuest wasn't the main map, eventually was Google Maps. So, it's early to call. I think you see all those companies. I think they have big ecosystem. They're investing on their ecosystem. We'll see what happens. However, I'm gonna try to give you a little bit of an answer. I think the, I have this view and this is maybe a longer conversation that we're gonna have time for. But I think at the end of the day, the winner of the edge is gonna be the winner of the AI race. And the reason I say that is because the, especially for everything that is personal, the edge has real context. You can all-- - You can add meaning to your phone, your device, the devices that you use as opposed to-- - Where these humans are, right? The humans don't knock on the data center and say, "Give me some AI." They're good at experiencing that some other devices over there. And what happened is, if you look how models got trained, models got trained on the information available on the internet. But when you fast forward to a model that is when you add physical AI, understanding our world, understanding your context, understanding you, that's gonna be a lot more useful for you than a generic model that got trained on a data available on the internet. So whoever had access to that data is in a very, very strong position. So it's companies that have presence in all of those different devices already. I think they have an advantage. I will not bet against them. - All right, but then let me take this a level deeper than with you because we have seen those companies. I'll just name them, Amazon, Apple, Google, Meta. They've all tried to build this contextually aware personal assistant. We've heard presentations about Alexa Plus and Apple Intelligence and Meta, all the different buddies you can have in the Meta properties, Google obviously with Gemini. But even though they have all this data, we still don't really have an assistant that's capable of doing what they've promised. I mean, Apple might be the most notable in promising this contextually aware assistant that will help you figure out when your flight is and tell you all right time to get to the airport. They haven't done that yet. What is holding these companies back? Is it a hardware problem, AI problem? Where is the bottleneck? - I think it's a combination of things. But I am more optimistic. I think they're new to describe. I think we're starting to see, I think the beginning of some real experiences. I think you have to get the maturity. I think, first of all, the AI models need to get more mature. I think they need to get more capable. I think you had a lot of changes even within AI. You went, you started to see mix of experts, you started to see no chain of art reasoning. So you have different things specialized in specific tasks. I think we're just the beginning of a physical AI, which is really important if you don't have context. So I think this is gonna happen. The other part of it is compute. You need to have a lot of high performance compute. This is where we come into the picture. Because you cannot do everything on the cloud because of also latency. It is not gonna be useful for you if I go back to when you ask me to describe the experience. If you and I are walking together in the street and I'm gonna say, "Hey, who's this person?" And you say, "This is so-and-so." The answer, you can't be say, "Hold on, let me think it. Let's keep walking. I've been thinking about it." And then the person went by, "You missed a point." And I think you're gonna have to have certain things you need to do on the device. It needs to be fast. Like all companies right now voice to text, they're starting to do locally because you don't tolerate any delay. So, and we're gonna get there. - Yeah, we were just talking earlier in the room here about potentially being on the ski hill and having the glasses point you down the hill that suits your skill set. But if you have to wait like two minutes, you might be a bunny hill skier and down the black diamond. So, you really want to be able to work fast. - You got a great deal of glasses. - Yeah, your glasses will be the first casualty. - Yes. - All right, we're here with Cristiano Amand, the CEO of Qualcomm. Here at Qualcomm Space at Davos, we're gonna be doing four conversations through the week here and thrilled to be here. On the other side of this break, we're gonna talk about AI PCs, AI data center that constraints on the AI build out and robotics, if we have time, we'll be back right after this. And we're back here on Big Technology Podcast. Special edition here at Davos, we're here broadcasting, talking together on a Monday going live across our channels on Tuesday. And let's keep going here about how AI will transform devices. The AI PC is a subject that has been interesting to me. A lot of noise about how if you have AI baked into your computer, then you'll be able to be more productive and it can really transform the way that you work. That's the marketing. In reality, that rollout, that promise has been slow to meet the reality. This is from the head of product at Dell, speaking to the verge. He says, "What we've learned over the course of the year, especially from a consumer perspective, is they're not buying based on AI?" And in fact, I think AI probably confuses them more than it helps them understand a specific outcome. Obviously Qualcomm has a stake in the success of AI PCs. What is happening today and where is it going? - It's a great topic of conversation. Look, first of all, as we entered the PC space, I would argue that a lot of what's driving this sale of Snapdragon PowerPC is the fact that we deliver multi-day battery life. a lot of performance in a very exciting thin and light form factor, right? So we just build a better PC. On the consumer side, I would agree with that that you don't see yet a lot of agents. And I know people want to see this right away. I wish it was seen right away. I don't necessarily disagree with that on the consumer front because Microsoft just launched an agent for Windows. It just launched. So I think it's going to, people are going to use it more more as you start into rely on agents. And I thank you going to see things they're going to be running on your device. But I think that's not the story for AIPC. The story's a little bit different. What we see happening with AIPC and the fact that we actually have the ability to run a significant high performance inference on a laptop, we see is something else. What we see is right now, you have many, many, many applications and services on your PC that are doing a lot of cloud computation. And if you could rely on the computing that is available on the PC, not only is it going to be faster, but it has a completely different economics. I'll give an example. If you're a SaaS company and all the SaaS companies right now are being threatened by AI, if you're a SaaS company and you say, I'm going to have an agent within my application and every time I have this data, I'm going to run it and you're paying for computer in the cloud. Your economics changed dramatically if you actually use the computer into the device. I'll give you like a practical example. There's many things now. You just have a button. You see that on the Microsoft Copilot. You see that on across a number of different applications. Summarize this. Like you have a bunch of data. You have several pages of a document. Summarize this. You can go all the way to the cloud and have a cost of cloud compute to run the model or you can run that model that summarizes on your text in the computer. That's free because it's the computer that you already have. So we're starting to see a lot of interest for enterprises or even applications to start running a portion of the application on the AI engine on the device and that's starting right now. So the reason to buy AI PC hardware, as opposed to like, let's say, letting cloud code take over your computer, mostly it's cost. I think you see, well, I just give you one example. There's more. Like gaming, for example, a lot of the gaming engines right now are thinking about using AI on the PC. For example, you can have on an RPG game, you have a dialogue with a character. Like a model, you have a dialogue. The gameplay changes. There's an example of cost. There's an example of a new use case as an example of agent. I think the answer to your question is, first of all, why should you buy a Snapdragon Power PC? Because by definition, even if you're not using AI, it's going to be a faster, more-today battery life and it's going to feel like your phone. You can use your laptop all day without-- you go places, don't take the charger with you. The second part of it, why should you buy an AI PC as a consumer? As a consumer, I think, over time, you're going to see more and more apps having an AI front end. They're going to leverage the capabilities on the PC, but it's going to be transparent to you. On the enterprise, I think the economics are going to change. Because a lot of the ISVs and SAS applications are going to require the onboard computing, and I think that's going to make a difference. Very interesting. So that'll be a requirement from software companies. So Qualcomm has also gotten into the data center world, and you're building data centers. So obviously, you have the chips in the devices, like we talked about. But now you're working on building data centers for AI inference. So let's talk a little bit about-- well, actually, why don't you first give us a little bit about why this is a move that Qualcomm is making? Yes. And it was-- look, we always believe that what's going to happen with AI in a data center, you started to see all this build out for training. But eventually, and now it's well understood. When we start developer solutions, that's what we thought eventually inference is going to take over training. Because just think about that for a second. If your company's spending billions of dollars building a data center for training, you expect to get a return on that investment. So when you start putting AI into production, you're doing inference. And we always believe that when you go to inference, there's going to be a lot of competition between the different AI players. So then, I think the total cost of ownership matters, how much power you consume matters, and the architecture matters. So first, answer to your question is, we realize when the data centers start to transition to inference, we have an opportunity leverage our assets to build a very power-efficient inference solution for the data center, scaling the technology that we develop for the edge. Because the power is efficient in the phone, and power is such a bottleneck in AI, you can use that advantage and put it in a data center. That's logic. If you just look at today, you have this very aggressive ramp of growth of AI, and you don't have the same ramp on energy, you know, they're ready. There's a gap between available energy and AI. So I think energy is going to be its cart resource. Also, to operate an inference data center, that's one of the biggest items in operating expenses. And then, I think people wanted to have a different architecture, which is the second part of my answer. The second part of my answer is, we believe that the data center is going to another process of disaggregation and let it explain what I mean by that. One of the key things that happened in the mobile industry, if you look at your smartphone today, your smartphone, it's a very difficult engineering challenge from a semiconductor standpoint. Because I have to pack a lot of computing in your smartphone. It has to fit in your pocket. You cannot get hot. You're going to touch your face. You cannot get hot. I cannot have fans. I cannot do liquid cooling on the smartphone. And your battery has to last all day. Otherwise, it's not useless. Yes. So in order to do that, we had to perfect the disaggregation of the compute for a lack of a better way to describe it. In the PC, everything was CPU-centric. So if you're going to do a decode of music, or you do the code of a video, you go and load up the CPU. You can't do that on the phone. It buttons to much power. So you create a dedicated hardware just for music decode, a dedicated hardware. Just to JPEG encode, when it take a picture, a dedicated hardware for you to do video decode. And everything is disaggregated. And I think-- and you do that because you want it to maximize the use of the available energy in the battery for you. And this all exists in the phone. Existing the phone. It's the most we call heterogeneous compute. If you look of a Snapdragon today, it has several engines for different things. We don't run everything on a CPU or even for that. I come to GPU. Data center's going to that. And we're starting to see disaggregation. There's an architecture that they use for pre-fuel. There's an architecture they use for decode. So we're building what we believe is post GPU, when you started to do inference, and you need the dedicated engines, we'll build in that. I actually believe that the envy, the acquisition of GROC validates, they use different engines for different things. And I think that's what we're doing. And I think that's our focus on data center. OK, let's talk about robotics. Are you buying the hype on humanoid robots? I will like this whole conversation with you. I've been doing comparisons. And I'm going to do a comparison with automotive to kind of outline our strategy. But let me give you the answer first. I buy the opportunity to humanoid robot. However, the opportunity is going to manifest itself different. And some of those things are going to take time. For example, to get straight to your question, a robot that is going to be with you in her house, and it's going to do everything you ask to robot to do, it's going to take a time to train that. It's very difficult. Teleoperators. It's difficult. Every house is not going to be the same. Every task is not going to be the same. It's going to be a lot of training required. Having said that, a robot that can do certain tasks and do that task over and over, and that's not actually not a hard problem to solve. So with that, I'm going to give you my comparison of metaphor. When we start building platform for automotive, and we're very proud of our automotive business right now, We also got into a stack for autonomous driving. When you think about autonomous driving, when you think about robot taxi, like a level five, no steering wheel, you go to the back seat and you take a nap, that requires a lot of training because you can get to zero to 95%, but if you get to 99.99% of the corner case, you have to do a lot of training. However, if you do assisted driving, with the human steer responsible to pick up the steering wheel and something happens, then you have the ability to put this in every car from level two to plus, two plus, plus to level three, and then all the way to level four. So that's a massive market opportunity and that's what we're doing right now. You can bring some form of assisted driving to every single model. I feel the same way about robotics. If you do a humanoid robot or a humanoid arm, and you do anything that you can leverage the world that has been designed for us, and you train the robot on a particular task, that I think we're very, it's already happening. And I believe the opportunity from a business standpoint is massive, that's why we're really focused on industrial robots because you can train a robot, for example, your task is gonna go to the supermarket and put the stuff back in the shelf. That's a self-contained problem. You're not training a robot to do everything. I think the robot that will do everything, it's gonna take a little bit of time until we get there. - There was a half marathon in China of humanoid robots, and the highlights look really funny. Robots pulling on their face. At the starting line and robots taking their whole team, holding onto ropes and flinging them into the, the side of the course, and people went pretty fast and pretty far with that, the power the robot had as it sort of crashed out of the course. But some of those robots finished pretty fast. I won't say they beat my half marathon time, which eventually they will, but they were respectable and they're finished, and that included time for battery changes. And the argument has been that in China, China is so close to the production process. Think about their cars, right? They have this electric car boom, because they've been building things with batteries and electronics for so long. Demis is obviously, CEO of Google DeepMind recently said that China is only a couple months behind the state of the art western models, but it seems like they're ahead on robotics. Do you agree with that argument? - Look, there's many things I think that China, it's remarkable I think we're doing. I think there's everybody talks about the China speed. We know that, I think from having a number of different partners in China using their technology from not only cars, but also phones, now robots and industrial. And I think there is some merit in the argument that you're closer to a very large industrial base, and you can prototype fast, you can build things fast, you can fail fast. And I think those things are helpful in developing the technology, but the technology's gonna be required for robotics. It's very, very broad, right? You go from advanced semiconductors, I think that's one area that the China companies are a partner with companies like Qualcomm and others. You're gonna have a lot of ecosystem, I think that is gonna be important for training, a lot of software. But yes, this is fascinating, everybody is on a race and things are moving fast. - Lastly, I wanna talk about an industrial AI, which is something that I think as far as the AI conversation gets probably the least ink, but it's some of the most interesting stuff that's happening today. I mean, even here at the space, we have a robot that we're looking at that was built in just a couple of weeks with a $50 Qualcomm chip and moving pretty well. Talk a little bit about the applications of AI in the industrial space, and maybe why you think people aren't paying so much attention to it, it's just not sexy enough for like the headlines. - I would say it's probably there's so much attention on data center right now, that is it probably takes all of the air, I think in the conversations that are centered, I would probably even resonate just the fact that we said we're building some of the data center, it got a lot of attention, but the reality is the industrial opportunity for AI is massive. It's massive because you can put AI processing on pretty much everything, and you find that every single industry, every single vertical has a massive number of use cases. It's true in retail, it's true in warehousing, it's true in healthcare, it's true in manufacturing, in energy, and we're actually seeing incredible motor demand, especially because if you actually have ability to process in real time things that come from physical AI, motors, machines, you know, all of those things you can put sensor, but just to give an example, if we don't get too fancy with different machines, just in computer vision alone, a camera, you can put a camera on a manufacturing line in the trained model just to see if what's coming in the conveyor belt against the template, is what you expected you to quality control with just a camera. You put the camera, for example, into looking at a shelf of a supermarket, you now can have the ability to check inventory real time, you can actually sell online what's in the store, with a real time, I think, management inventory. You can put the same camera on a smart city and you're reading license plates, and I think it's a massive, massive opportunity. Some of the many meetings where I'm having here at Davos is within industrial companies, they're super interested in industrial AI, and I think that's actually happening right now. Okay, five minutes left, two questions for you. One of the reasons why I'm so happy to be speaking with you is because in a sense, you can see the future, right? Because when something is going to be mass produced, you're the first call that's being made from, let's say, someone building an AI wearable. You're working closely with Meta, so you have a pretty good understanding of the man that they're anticipating because they need your chips to be able to build things out. Thinking about the AI build out, and maybe also the AI device build out, and looking into the crystal ball that you have of what the future looks like, are things going to continue a pace? Can they possibly keep moving as fast as they have been? - Look, I feel that the, and I think that question is really directed, I think what's probably happening on the data center because on the personal, on the device side, which is the beginning, I think we're saying a big trajectory, like for example, glasses continue to increase, quarter over quarter, but I think the broader question is to the speed on the data center, and here's my answer. If we go back to the year 2000, when did Doccom crash, right? I have that correction on the Doccom. Go back to year 2000, and you think about what we thought back then, what the internet would be. I will tell you that today, 25 years, later 26 years now, it is exactly way bigger than people thought it would be. So whatever they thought is in 2000, the internet would be exactly way bigger right now. - And you can still buy pet food on this one? - Yeah, however, it didn't happen all in 2000, it happened. - Right. - So I think what's gonna happen is, AI right now in the long run, it's going to be bigger than people think. It's probably under-hype for the long run. Now, how fast this is going to get deployed and how pervasive and what we'll see, could we continue to build at the space? It's possible, could this load out? It's also possible. What we're excited about it, and I think it's finally, and this is more for Qualcomm. Finally, people just woke up that the edge opportunity is massive. And I think this, all of this air that was all about data center, some of it started going to the pain attention to the edge right now, and I think we're just the beginning of that curve. - Okay, finally, I gotta ask you a Davos question. - Go ahead. - Here at Davos, we have the slopes behind us. This is real for those wondering. You know, the corporations have been through this, really interesting journey. There's been moments where they've been into what's called stakeholder capitalism, where they think about the group of people beyond the shareholder. And I think we're kind of in a moment now, where there's more of a naked pursuit of the bottom line. I'm not speaking about Qualcomm, I'm just saying broadly, it seems like corporations are much more, they've sort of put away this illusion that they care about much else than the bottom line. And I wonder If we're here at the right outside the world, economic forum, there's 48 conversations that will happen in this event that will be about AI. People will be talking about how AI will be able to cure cancer or get our best chance at curing cancer and empower the disempowered. And so I'm curious like from your perspective, do you think AI is going to be the new altruism or the new corporate altruism and is that a good or a bad thing? - That's a complicated question. Look, I think it's a technology, is it too? I think it's going like computers did it. And it will continue to do. I think it will help accelerate many things, it will help accelerate. For example, drug discovery as an example, it will help many things will increase productivity as I said before, it's probably going to democratize education. It's going to change how we think about education. This is something to keep changing. It's going to be a tool. I don't think it's going to be this change, this society kind of thing. I'll tell you how I'll give you a very personal answer. When I, and this is going to be terrible because it's going to show my age, but when I got out of college, it's just the beginning of the internet. Still, I remember going to my first job and there was like a fixed machine and you gotta go to the fixed machine and you get the fixes that you got overnight and put the other fixes in there and you have somebody that's still typing intercompany memos. Like we don't talk about this anymore. I think when the internet arrived and email arrived, it was a revolution. And I think the AI is going to be that kind of revolution, almost like computers, but it's going to be like us doing things with computers just more. That's how I feel about it. - All right, well, it's been amazing following this space because every time I think I'm caught up, there's something new and I think that you're going to be right at the center of it with all the devices that are going to come out and maybe when open AI, it does release this family of devices we can talk again about the state of the competition. By the way, we have a great live audience with us. Guys, make some noise so people can hear that. (audience cheering) They hear it. To Cristiano and the Qualcomm team, thank you for having me here at your space at Davos and very excited to be engaging in a number of really great conversations about the state of AI. I'm sure that our audience by the end of them will have a really good understanding of where things are going and this was a great way to kick it off. So, Cristiano, thank you so much for coming on the show. - No, thank you, thank you. I really had fun having this conversation with you. Thank you. - All right, everybody. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time on Big Technology Podcast. Thank you. (audience applauding) - Thank you. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)