Speaker 1Welcome to the Ringer Fantasy Football Show, my name is Danny Heifetz and I'm joined by Danny Kaelin and Craig Korolbeck and today we are going over quarterbacks, rankings, tiers, sleepers. DK, is that you a lot of good quarterbacks now? Oh, that's great. I love to
Speaker 2hear that. All right. DK didn't know that. So that's good that you're telling him. I'm excited
Speaker 1to talk about the good ones. We're well, the bad ones are usually more fun. We're going to go through that and DK watch Transformers finally. So we're going to do a little movie club at the
Speaker 3end of the summer movie club. If I look tired, it's because this movie, guys, you didn't tell me it's two and a half hours long. It's two hours and 15 minutes. No, well, 224, two hours. No, the credits start at 215. Well, you got to watch the, you have to listen to the whole song.
Speaker 1Anyways, I'm exhausted. I watched this movie. We'll get to that later. It's funny to me. You didn't watch this movie with your son, which I kind of just assumed you
Speaker 3would. Oh, he would. He's not ready for that yet. Too much. Not ready for what? For Transformers. Too violent or what? Yeah. What? What do you mean? Too scary, too violent. Too scary. Yeah.
Speaker 2What is he? Six, seven, seven. Yeah.
Speaker 1Okay. Before we get into this, we also want to mention we have a live show in Los Angeles coming up. I don't know when you're listening to this episode, but if it's, we, the tickets go live noon Pacific on Wednesday, July 15th. And if it's after that, you listen to this and the tickets are live now. So go to the ringer.com slash events. The show is August 27th in Los Angeles at the Fonda theater. That's a Thursday. So Thursday, August 27th in Los Angeles at the Fonda, the details are at the ringer.com slash events, and you can go buy them. Starting at noon Pacific on Wednesday, July 15th. So link in the description. If you wanted to go to the page, just link in the episode, just click the DK. What's it called? You call it an Earl,
Speaker 2which I still think is worse than anything. I've ever said Earl. Isn't that the name? Isn't that the name of the website? Tiny URL. It's a URL. You say tiny URL. No one sees, no one says tiny
Speaker 1at all. And you just say URL. You say you go to the link. Yeah. Earl. I, whatever. If I said that, I would never hear the fucking end of it. Whatever. That's true. Maybe I said it wrong. We'll never find out. Anyway, I want to get to the quarterbacks. Yeah. I get to our quarterback rankings. I want to start with, before we get into the specifics, I want to sort of two big picture things as we go to quarterbacks. This is partially fantasy. This is more of a real life story, but I wanted to start here with the quarterbacks as we get into it. Uh, I feel like this, this season in particular is a, is a true mindset generation shift because I think the defining quarterbacks of, I guess the 2020s, post COVID or whatever, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, all of them are either turning 30 this summer or turning 30 during the season. They are now, those guys are in their thirties. And I do think that that is a little bit like has to change the way we look at quarterbacks. Like they're kind of teetering toward becoming the old guy. They're not quite old guard, but they're not young anymore. Like they are at the vets. Yeah. And I just think that's an interesting way. It's weird to think about Lamar Jackson will be 30 in January. Like Josh Allen's 30, Joe Burrow will turn 30 soon like that. I don't know. I just, I think that they're, they're very much are like young quarterbacks in their early twenties. And then these guys that are now kind of like, okay, do we expect Lamar Jackson to be rushing for a thousand yards at 30 years old? I mean, that is the question. It's how,
Speaker 3how is this game going to age? I think Josh Allen, they've continually tried to take him out of the run game. He continues to do it just because he's so good at it because scrambling is chaotic. But, um, yeah. How is their game going to age? How are these older guys going to age?
Speaker 2When we don't have like, we have some evidence, but we don't have a ton of evidence of guys like Lamar Jackson being 35 years old. Like we don't really, there's a few guys who are his level of mobile in the past, like a Michael Vick or something like that. But we don't really have a ton of evidence of like, what happens to these guys when they're in their mid thirties or early
Speaker 1thirties. So I, that, that really was going, that really just kind of knocked me backward as I was thinking about all this, especially with Josh Allen, who, I mean, spoiler, but Josh Allen's kind of in his own tier as a tier one quarterback. I don't really think that's spoiling anything because Josh Allen, he has literally only been the first or second, um, quarterback in season long fantasy since COVID literally the last six seasons, Josh Allen's only been the first or second best quarterback. So it's not even like, where would we rank him among quarterbacks?
Speaker 2It was like that stretch when Mike Trout was either just the MVP or the runner up to MVP for like seven years in baseball.
Speaker 1And then no one would do the tweet in front of you in line.
Speaker 3Josh Allen is, uh, it's almost like we don't even have to talk about him anymore. He's just kind of the old reliable. He's the gold standard of fantasy. Um, he does it with his arms. He does it with his arm. He does it with his legs every single year. He's the best red zone weapon in football. He basically the best, I think he's the best red zone quarterback since Cam Newton, or even maybe better than him, uh, in his prime. So it's just absolutely unstoppable once they get
Speaker 1into the red zone. I think he surpassed Cam Newton, if not at absolute peak ceiling, Cam Newton never did it as low. Like Cam Newton did not have a six season stretch where that Josh Allen just did. Maybe you could argue Cam Newton and his prime was better than, I mean, probably was as a short yardage guy. And honestly, the whole fourth down thing kind of started with Cam Newton and Ron Rivera having Cam Newton. But again, Josh Allen has basically been the best, uh, quarterback in situationally for like six years now. I mean, my home's in the playoffs has probably been better, but I it's, it's, it's honestly the consistency. It reminds me of Tony Gonzalez, a tight end at two thousands. Like, you know what I mean? Like the year over year, like, just every, the amount of people that have come and gone and Josh has just been like, it's funny to think of him, but he's been the picture of consistency, which I don't think anyone would have had seven years ago.
Speaker 2I think the thing that he has, has given you the, especially the last three years is touchdown consistency running the ball. Yeah. Like the last three years he's had 15, 12 and 14 rushing touchdowns. His, his, his yards have gone down a little bit, but the consistency of him in the red zone and the whole like, well, James cook might take his, that never happened. And, and you should never assume that's gonna happen. Even though Josh Allen's 30 years old, uh, like DK, you don't feel like you don't have any fear that Josh Allen is going anywhere, but the top two
Speaker 3for the foreseeable future. Right? No. And I think the only, you worry, I really is injury. And he has proven to be really durable. I mean, he's a massive, massive human being. Um, he has three, like you said, he has the three straight years of 12 plus touchdowns. He also has five straight years of 500 plus yards rushing. In addition to that, I saw this from rich rebar. Um, he has over the last five years, he's never dipped below 5% touchdown rate. He's the only quarterback that's done that in that stretch. Um, so he is just, it's like printing money when you have him in fantasy so far. Um, so I mean, he's our unquestioned number one quarterback.
Speaker 1And a couple other things that Josh Allen ESPN had this good stat. Josh Allen's the only player in NFL history that has at least 200 passing touchdowns and 50 rushing touchdowns. And the other stat I liked was that Josh Allen is 25 passing touchdowns and 10. 10 rushing touchdowns each of the past three years. And nobody else has ever done that three times at any point in their career, 25 passing 10 rushing touchdowns. Josh Allen's done it three
Speaker 2times in a row. Let me ask you this. Do you guys believe that he is alone in the tier in tier one, or do you think he should be with Lamar Jackson or maybe you think Jalen hurts or other guys who he's been with? Because like last year, Josh Allen QB one year before that Lamar Jackson was the QB one beat him by three points per game. Do you think Josh is alone or do you think there should be
Speaker 3people with him? I think he's alone. I think his reliability is what puts him above everyone else. And I think if you took any other quarterback in, in, in front of Josh Allen, I would be like, oh, okay. That's interesting. Yeah. Interesting move there. So that's kind of how I look at it. I mean, look at Lamar Jackson was like the QB 16 last year or something like that. Um, and he hasn't proven it in the same way. I think that Josh Allen has, and, and, you know, so I, I definitely see him as a top one, especially compared to like a Drake may or whoever we'll get to those guys. But, um, I just think the length of time that he's done it and the reliability every single year, whether it's passing touchdowns, rushing touchdowns, rushing yards, he, you just know what you're
Speaker 1gonna get from him. So the, I think the question becomes, where do you end up actually taking Josh Allen? Like, where is like, is he, you know, if the, I think the shorthand is if you get him in the third round, you would take him. The question is, do you take him in the second round? Are you taking Josh Allen or like Drake London? Are you taking Josh Allen or Jeremiah love? And that's really gonna be the answer. And the truth is he probably won't fall cuz he's Josh Allen. He's really cool. And someone in your league's probably gonna take him as a top 18
Speaker 2player. Yeah. It just takes one out of 10 or 12 guys to be like, I'm just gonna take Josh Allen. Yeah. And usually he goes earlier than you think. So I feel like I just want 22 points a game for my quarterback. Yeah. Yeah. And like usually the guy who had Josh Allen last year wants Josh Allen again this year, cuz every year he's a top two quarterback. So it's probably very hard for him to actually, we have him ranked around like 27th. That's probably his latest. He'll go. He won't,
Speaker 1he won't fall there. And that's the problem. And that's, and so I wanna, before we get into the rest of the quarterbacks, I wanna ask this other question to you, which is just about quarterback strategy this year. And I wanna circle back on it at the end, but JJ Zachary reason just had a great, I mean, he, he named his whole show like late round quarterback. And then because late drafting quarterbacks late for like the entire 2010s was a really good idea. And then that ideally went away from 2020 to 2025, because long story short, it's really hard to predict passing yards. Like the top five people passing yards is hard. Hi, the quarterback rushing yards is easy. We know who the guys who are gonna rush for a lot of yards are. And because one rushing yard is worth like three passing yards, you get a lot. It was basically, it's much easier to predict quarterbacks with rushing ability. so there weren't a lot of quarterbacks who could run 10 years ago but now there's so many quarterbacks who could run that it became predictable predictable to predict quarterbacks for like a five-year period and so jalen hurts and josh allen lamar jackson we started taking quarterbacks high the last five years after a period where you didn't want to do that and jg zacher reason had this episode this week that was really good where basically he said i think we might be back to taking quarterbacks in the late rounds because now there are so many quarterbacks who can run and i wanted to read you guys this stat and then get you and basically i'm curious what you think of this jg zacher reason had this great stat that from 2010 to 2020 basically there was an average of three quarterbacks a year that got three points a game from rushing three fantasy points a game just from rushing points yeah so three guys doing that last year there were 16 16 quarterbacks averaged three points a game from rushing so it's not just jackson dar and lamar jackson but even like brock purdy and trevor lawrence and justin herbert so my question for you is do you want to be trying to get like josh allen you want to be trying to get like josh allen you want to be trying to get like josh allen in like the late second round instead of like a drake london or trey mcbride or do you want to just say screw it and just kind of grab whatever quarterback and be the last person to take a quarterback like like where what do you guys i'm not going to hold you to this on july 14th which is when we're recording this but gut check right now would you rather be one of the first two people to take a quarterback or literally last by a mile uh that's a tough question i think
Speaker 3i think i lean late i definitely lean going with it late i do think that we're going to talk about some of these guys like i think lamar jackson's probably going to be a pretty good value this year i do think he's going to bounce back i think the malik willis thing is on the other hand is an interesting one because i think he's the justin fields of the season where you can take him late you can hope for a ton of rushing upside and touchdowns and all that but how secure is he in his starting role like are the dolphins really going to stick with him all year there is a little bit of risk there so um i think i i definitely lean going late though i think the nice thing
Speaker 2about this season is because we're going to have a lot of people that are going to be going late quarterback does not need to be like a huge priority i think if josh allen feels like he's fallen to an appropriate place you can take him and i probably would because like we just said it's great having josh allen but if you don't kind of reach for one of the elites a drake may a josh allen lamar whatever i won't be sweating like i was four or five years ago when it was like oh shit i guess i'm just stuck with whatever pocket passer while these other four guys have these elite tier one dudes now it's kind of like okay if you don't get josh allen you don't get lamar jackson you don't get drake may brock purdy trevor lawrence like there are caleb williams there are so many guys that i feel pretty comfortable with um that i can start all season i mean you could when you're a 12 team
Speaker 1league you could have every team take a starter you could have three teams take backups and then you could get patrick mahomes yeah or matt stafford the reigning mvp it's a really really really deep
Speaker 2year so we'll get which i gotta say nothing makes you especially the last few years with mahomes i almost think when you have mahomes on your fantasy team it's kind of annoying because his name is almost bigger than his fantasy performance now obviously so it's like you're almost kind of even more upset yeah because if you just took bo nicks as your qb 13 and he kind of produced as the qb 13 you're like well it's bo nicks if you have patrick mahomes and you draft him as the qb 13 and he gives you qb 13 you're like what the fuck i thought i was drafting like the greatest quarterback of all time and he's kind of average at fantasy this is weird yeah
Speaker 1you're poking him with a stick being like do something yeah i mean he's solid and he was
Speaker 2good in spurts last year but it is mahomes in a weird spot chiefs are in a weird spot in general
Speaker 1well i mean yeah i mean we can get it i mean i mean we can just talk about him now if you want but i mean he tore his acl and he's gonna play in week one but he tore his acl late in the season i believe you most guys wait for the swelling to go down in their knee before they get surgery i believe mahomes got the surgery the next day because he's like i'm not missing week one and um but mahomes i don't know i i he's so reliant i'm not gonna doubt patrick problems but he's so reliant on scrambling and being as dk would say about brock purdy mahomes is also a sneaky little shit in the pocket like his ability to outrun defensive ends i'm curious what happens to moments in the first week like is he gonna be a the old ben roethlisberger park and bark for the first month of the season like what is mahomes without scrambling gonna look like for the first
Speaker 3five weeks of the year until he's fully healthy it's not just scrambling either i mean obviously scrambling is a huge part of it but it's just maneuvering in the pocket and and buying time and and spinning out and trying to find a little daylight and then stepping back up in the pocket like he movement from him is so important not just scrambling but in the pocket um keeping the play alive some of the plays i think that he ends up not scrambling and throwing the ball right before he goes over the the line of scrimmage you know what i mean like that's kind of a scramble too so so those plays are going to be affected as well as passing well and like you know a few years ago when
Speaker 2he hurt himself on that qb sneak they don't run those anymore with him so it's like he's got this qb sneaks anymore look patrick mahomes over the last three seasons last year he was the qb4 before he got hurt in points per game he was doing really well year before that qb14 year before that qb14 so it's kind of like and now it's like you have a rishi rice situation up in the air travis kelsey's 37 years old you have xavier worthy kenneth walker maybe we're going to run the ball a little bit more and he's coming off an acl he you know we always joke about the guy who just shows up at the fantasy draft and it's like patrick mahomes is not a top 12 quarterback this year i'm going to i'm a little bit dubious that i i don't know how interested i would actually be in taking moms
Speaker 1yeah i don't know but that's a good example of it because the guys ahead of them all basically can run like everyone ahead of mahomes can run or is stafford and won the mvp so or dac who led the league in completions like that's really everyone ahead of him so here
Speaker 3mahomes averaged five over five points a game from running last year and i don't know if that's
Speaker 1going to happen this year it's because no one was freaking opening in a run because usually mahomes would pace himself kind of like josh allen does now which is mahomes would really start to run for the crucial third downs in december and january in the playoffs when the games really started to like matter matter and he was very smart about like pacing himself for that and then last year you saw that he just kind of had to do it immediately because the chief started in that hall so he was rushing earlier than ever in the must win games but it's really like this card they had to pull out and then he tore his acl so i i don't know what the chief's gonna look like but anyway he's not one of our top 12 quarterbacks so uh i wanted to start so we have josh allen is our number one guy and we're giving him a tier of his own and i think he deserves a tier of his own because if someone took someone other than josh allen at the beginning and they weren't a fan of the team i'd be surprised but our second tier here we have and these are based around rankings at fantasyfootball.com which we'll update soon we have tier two is drake may for the patriots lamar jackson for the ravens jayden daniels the commanders and then joe burrow for the bangles who doesn't really fit here because it's like three incredible russian quarterbacks that can also pass and then joe burrow who can mostly pass uh dk do you think joe burrow belongs in this tier with these other three guys you
Speaker 3i do because of environment he is sort of the perfect uh it's the perfect storm with the bangles in terms of a really good high flying offense an offense that they kind of let him run jamar chase t higgins and high volume passing and bad defense so there's going to be a lot of shootouts and i don't think their defense is going to get good enough this offseason uh to really change that all that much so i think this is the this is a bet on burrow you know like a concentrated passing and a bad defense that's going to create high scoring so i think that he i don't know if he fits necessarily in this tier i might push him down a tier i think he should because drake made
Speaker 1lamar and jayden daniels could all be the second quarterback off the board and you wouldn't think that's weird right yeah but if you someone took joe burrow as the second quarterback you'd think
Speaker 3that was kind of weird yes and i think i think i'm happy to move him down a tier i think generally though like in this area in terms of like he's the qb5 in our rankings i think that's okay but i think you take him over jayden daniels or lamar jackson i might
Speaker 2kind of might be suspicious about that i agree with that also it's worth noting we say it a lot even year for the bangles 2022 joe burrow qb4 2023 joe burrow qb like 20 2024 joe burrow qb3 2025 joe burrow qb15 yeah it is a huge year for the bangles because the bangles are kind
Speaker 1of like a small market nba team that need to placate their superstars so they don't leave because i mean the bangles haven't made the playoffs in three years which is crazy and if they don't make the playoffs this year i think they're going to clean house and because they really just need to keep joe burrow i think the bangles are worried joe burrow wants to leave i think a lot of executives are hoping joe burrow leaves and i like not in the bangles but like other teams want joe burrow to try to be on the trade market and burrow i like they kept up the entire offense for him they signed jamar chase assigned t higgins for him they even kept mike gesicki for joe burrow that it's kind of like luca getting like a rim running center with the you know the snow time lakers like all these nba teams that keep players that maybe don't make sense for the team but that's what the player wants and that's what the bangles did with their offense and then now they're going all in with the defense that they traded the pick for dexter lawrence and again the bangles had not not had a first round pick in the in the nfl draft since like 19 the 1980s so it's like the bangles are going all in i do think head coach gm everyone's jobs are on the line this season but it's kind of on joe burrow because they're like he's an all shotgun player in a league that's like become all about being under center play action and it's like i i mean there's some amazing stats on it but i it's uh it's a huge year for joe burrow because i just to give you an idea of what i'm talking about because it's weird to talk about the bangles it's not being high flying but there was this great stat that i want to give credit to from paul dinner at the athletic last the last uh two seasons there have been 1500 explosive passes that were from under center play action 1500 joe burrow has one of them Like they don't do under center.
Speaker 3- The man does not like turning his back to the defense.
Speaker 1- No, and I'm like, that's how you do it. So I don't know. It's weird to think of the Bengals as not an explosive passing offense. So I'm curious. But I do think he should be docked. I think that the people in the running for the number two quarterback are Drake May, Lamar, and Jaden Daniels. But I'm curious which of those guys you think should actually be the second player, or is it more like it doesn't matter who take the cheapest of the three? Of Drake May, Lamar, and Jaden?
Speaker 2Yeah. I think Drake and Lamar have to be. I would say I would drop Jaden in that group if I had to pick. Lamar, just because of the consistency, and Drake May, just because of this... Him literally basically almost winning the MVP last year was kind of enough for me to see. He was the QB2 overall. But I want to talk about Lamar just because I was pissed last year about Lamar Jackson. He ruined my life. He was like... He ruined my life. He ruined my life. When we did the Fantasy Rewatchables, Lamar was not the LVP, but he was spiritually the LVP because it's not like he... He was hurt. He had a nasty hamstring injury, and the whole season was just kind of a mess for Baltimore.
Speaker 3Took a million sacks.
Speaker 2Yes. It was... So annoying. It was really bad, but the further removed I get from that season, the calmer I get about drafting Lamar Jackson again and not letting last year invade my thoughts, I'm kind of just going to be like, he hurt his hamstring pretty badly, and that's just kind of it, and played through injuries a lot. Because he's probably... It's pretty much just Josh Allen and then Lamar Jackson when you really look at the last three or four years, as well as Jalen Hurts. But literally, 13 months ago, we would have been saying Lamar Jackson is coming off a 25-point per game fantasy season. He destroyed Josh Allen. He threw for 41 touchdowns and ran for almost 1,000 yards. That was in 2024, Lamar.
Speaker 3That's insane.
Speaker 2Now they have a new situation. Todd Munkin's out. Obviously, Harbaugh's out. They have Declan Doyle in there, calling plays now, who was under Sean Payton for a while and then was under Ben Johnson in Chicago last year. He's 30 years old. He's the same age as Lamar Jackson, Declan Doyle.
Speaker 3He's younger than you guys.
Speaker 2He's younger. He's closer to 29 than he is to 31, Declan Doyle. And there's a lot of glowing reports out of him. Lamar and Zay Flowers are like, "This guy's a fucking boy genius. This is crazy." Sounds like they're doing a lot more play action, stuff like that. And when you look under the hood a little bit, Lamar's really good statistically with play action. So I'm actually excited to see Baltimore be a little bit more diverse in their offensive play calling and not just have Lamar sit and shotgun. So I'm kind of high on the Ravens offensively this year. I think they're going to be really good again. And I think Lamar, you just throw last season out, Lamar's like rock solid number two or number three pick at quarterback.
Speaker 3Yeah. I mean, Lamar is one of very few players that could average like over seven or eight points a game just from running. And he's been one of the most efficient passers when they'd allow him to pass. I think last year is just an aberration. And Craig, you mentioned it. He was hurt. He tried to do too much. You, he tried to basically be a hero. It felt like for half the time. And he was like doing these plays where he'd run around behind the line of scrimmage for like five seconds and then ultimately get sacked. It's just so annoying. I think Declan Doyle, theoretically, if you're talking about a Ben Johnson type of play caller is like on the details, you know, getting the ball to his playmakers, spreading the ball around, things like that. I think he could be really good for, for Lamar Jackson to kind of like write the ship and get back to what he was doing before. So Lamar Jackson, I feel pretty confident with him going into this. I think obviously like the track record is there outside of last year.
Speaker 1The other, I mean, I think you noticed this as soon as I forget what week that were Ravens Lions Monday night football game was, I think it was very early in the season, maybe week two or three. And you noticed it immediately that the Ravens were having a ton of trouble with interior pressure. And Lamar was taking way more sacks than usual. Part of that was the hamstring slung them down, but nobody's good with interior pressure. You see Lamar and fast quarterbacks escaping edge pressure, but the Ravens guard sucked like period. Like they had two experiments at guard. They had Daniel Filale, who is like the biggest person ever tried playing guard. And it was kind of eight. Yeah. Is it like, he's bigger than most left tackles and it was a disaster. And they had Andrew Voorhees who like another experiment, a guy who like blowed his Achilles at the combine. And they just tried to like see if they could get like a really cheap guard. And like, he wasn't very good. They were pretty bad. And so when you had the two worst guards in the league, they couldn't pick up blitzes. So now the Ravens guards are way better. You have John Simpson and they drafted Vega. You want it in the draft. Now they lost Tyler Linderbaum. So it's kind of like two steps forward. One, two is interior alignment forward, one interior alignment back. I mean, a little worried about their center this year. But overall, like this to me is what by the dip means. People are wary of one of the five most talented people in the entire league, but the situation probably got better because frankly, I think a lot of Ravens fans were frustrated with John Harbaugh. Ravens fans are frustrated with the offense. Well, not the offense so much, but I mean, Jesse Minter coming in as defensive coordinator or sorry, as the head coach, but he's a very talented defensive coordinator. You look at like Mike McDonald in Seattle and we'll, you know, look how good this Seahawks offense was this year. When you have like someone hiring game, uh, game recognized game, when you have a cutting edge defensive mind, like Jesse Minter is the closest defensive coordinator you had to Mike McDonald. I trust those people to identify the forward thinking skate to where the puck is heading offensive people. So I have no idea what to make of Declan Doyle. Maybe it's like Ryan grub at the first year with the Seahawks where the offensive coordinator was a mess. But if it's anything like Clint Kubiak last year for Seattle, I don't know. I think this, the Ravens offense could be really good. And it makes me rethink that maybe Zay flowers, I should be more optimistic about too. So, right. Well, I was gonna ask you about that because I don't know if you're
Speaker 3a fan of the Ravens because the only thing you might worry about with this Ravens offense is the lack of talent at the receiver position. I mean, you got Zay flowers who has been their go-to guy, but he's pretty messy. Meshad Bateman has been more of like a role player, obviously first round pick in the past, but been more of a role player for them. And then they drafted two guys, Elijah Chirot, Jacoby lane. I don't know how much they're gonna play Devontae Walker, I guess has been getting a little bit of buzz, but they have a pretty young and inexperienced receiver group outside of Bateman and flowers. One of those guys gets hurt. Like it's gonna be kind of interesting to see how this past
Speaker 2game. They lost Isaiah likely as well. Now they just have Mark Andrews really at tight end.
Speaker 1Right. And they lost Charlie Kohler who's important blocker, Pat RIP Patrick Ricard went to the giants, uh, giant fullback. But yeah, I think, I think Lamar, I think the question is what do you do with Drake may. So DK, like with all that said, would you take Drake may or Lamar?
Speaker 3I think that, yeah, again, a very tough one. I still think I'd probably take Lamar. Um, because if you think about it, like by the day, like you said, by the death, obviously it's a bit cheap, but like, I feel like Lamar's gonna go back up and it's Drake may theoretically, it's like maybe he has a little bit of like, he, he could only go down from where he went from efficiency wise last year. Schedule merchant just say it. Well, I'm not gonna say that, but I just think like he was so efficient and so incredible and he ran, ran so much, so many scrambles. He, uh, um, he had a league high 57 scrambles. I think they're probably gonna try and get him to do that a little bit less. Maybe they'll
Speaker 1have the opportunity to do that less because the receiver better himself had a big game. Where he was like 21 of 24 and they, and they asked him about it and he was based like a perfect passer rating. He's like, oh, that's not true because like, I actually missed a lot of reads that I didn't know what to do in time. So I just ran and took off. And so that is a weird thing with young rookie quarterbacks and younger guys is as they learn the offense better, they don't run less necessarily cuz they're older. They do it because they know what to make the throw instead of like one, two, uh, oh, bail.
Speaker 3And so actually you learned of what to do all out. Yeah. So I think, you know, and that's not to say that I think Drake may is gonna get worse, but I'm just talking about in fantasy, he, I think he could potentially, like we could have seen maybe like his peak last year just because of all the running that he was doing. And that, that being said, I mean, he did get AJ Brown in the off season. I think they got Romeo dubs. Their, their passing game could be even more efficient and more explosive. So I still think he's gonna be very good, but, um, the QB two, I mean, he was a QB two and overall points QB three and points per game. He had 30 pass touchdowns, which was third most type of DAC. We know that passing touchdowns can be pretty ver variable year in and year out. Um, so I dunno, I probably just lean Lamar because you get the floor of the rusher and you know, if you're taking Drake may, then that's not like a bad pick, but I think you just have to expect that he could have a little bit of regression in touchdowns or rushing yards or both.
Speaker 1Anything else on this tier? So we're, we're officially moving bird down. So it's basically Josh Allen's on his own tier. And then the people competing to be the second quarterback taken or Drake may Lamar and Jen Daniels. And we seem to all lean Lamar. Uh, I think
Speaker 3Jane Daniels is the most interesting player in the first couple of rounds potentially, you have the super high variance of what he did his rookie year. He went 12 and five as a rookie, um, was one of the best fantasy quarterbacks. He, he averaged almost 21 points per game as a rookie. Um, and so, and he was the QB four, if you remove week 18, which you probably should, cuz that doesn't count for fantasy. I mean, he, so, and then he, last year, uh, he only averaged 16 points per game in seven games. Everything fell apart. He got hurt, basically had one healthy game. He had knee sprain, hamstring, sprain, dislocated elbow that ended the season, or at least ended it for a while. Um, and so coming back, I think his health is obviously a big question. That's always what we were worried about when he was coming out into the league. But if he can stay healthy, I mean, he has elite elite potential. He is like in that Drake may mold where if he doesn't see it right away, he's just gonna scramble and run. And he's really good at that really explosive. Um, and there's a potential here for he, him being one of the like highest volume runners in the NFL at quarterback. So, um, there's some questions with Jane Daniels, though. New offensive coordinator. You guys tell me what you think. David Blau. I, I, I have no idea what to make of David Blau because we don't really have any track record. He has not been a play caller before 30 years old, 30 years old, again, younger than you guys. You guys are basically calling plays for the commanders. You guys make fun of me for being old. These guys are younger than
Speaker 2you. The amount of like backup quarterbacks that are like 30, that we're just given offensive
Speaker 3court. Golden age is a wild. I know. So Blavitt Blau played five games in the NBA. He's been playing five seasons in the, in the NFL, um, including I think one season on a cliff Kingsbury in Arizona. And then he was the QB coach under Kingsbury the last two seasons. Now he's been promoted. to the offensive coordinator we do not know a whole lot about him what he's going to do i think ostensibly he's going to be in the kingsbury mold where you spread things out you know and i don't know what that i don't i honestly just like don't know what to expect from him plus we don't really know i don't know if he'll be like kingsbury we don't know what the deal with his uh with his personnel is either because terry mclaren is basically the only yeah returning reliable receiver in this group the tight end is unestablished we got um chica cuanco is new ben sinat is still there you got a receiver you have trailing burks who is kind of a reclamation project can't say healthy antonio williams who's the third round rookie um and then at running back it's again it's what do we get from running back it's katron allen is the rookie it's a bad it's a bad roster agency it's a bad roster cross be merit it there's so many questions with this offense i don't know what to do but i still do have faith in jayden daniels for my fantasy point of view to you know throw the ball deep run out run around a lot make some magic um i do think he's going to be a very good pick in fantasy i just don't know like what his ceiling is with all these variables i kind of think he
Speaker 2should be in the tier below for all the reasons he is for me like he's like drake and lamar as their own tier i think i think drake lamar and josh are like if you did want to pick a different quarterback than josh at one it has to be drake and lamar and i wouldn't like spit out my water if it was anyone else i would so i don't i don't think jayden i if it was jayden versus lamar or drake versus jayden i am not ever picking jayden i don't think yeah i think that's fair i think that's fair heifetz what do you think same with burrow i would kind of put burrow and jayden daniels down with like herbert and lawrence and that group personally but i think following my
Speaker 1own advice of things i've said this year of resolving to do more is if you say drake may versus jayden daniels just those words and i think that's fair i think that's fair i think that's fair i think about i'm like i kind of want jayden daniels just out of the principle of well 30 he fell 30 picks year over year out of principle i want to buy the dip but if i make myself say the office coordinator and the receivers and it's like do you want drake may with josh mcdaniel's coordinator throwing aj brown and romeo dubs or do you want jayden daniels with david blau throwing a mclaurin and the worst compliment like a very bad two through seven pass catcher group probably should be drake may uh but i kind of don't want to and i don't i don't know if it's like there are reasons or i just kind of hate the patriots to be honest i don't actually know it's probably that uh if i'm being honest but so that so then tier three then would become so well if we keep j j well dk you're the let's say i don't want to move jayden daniels down but uh craig does you're the time but you have to break the tie here are we moving jayden daniels out of that tier i think so wow i think
Speaker 3i think if you're tearing him off it's josh allen in his own tier drake yeah mar and his second tier and then we can talk about who who's in the third tier but if we have to even ask the question you
Speaker 1wow so you really think but he's saying josh do you think jayden daniels really should be a
Speaker 3different tier than lamar well lamar has done it a million times he's a multi-time mvp i think this the floor is much much higher with lamar and you know he's still got guys that he's been around for a long time i mean he's been around zay zay flowers for a long time mark andrews been one of the most like reliable well maybe that's not the right word he's been around him for a long
Speaker 1time um you actually hate him for his famous lack of reliability that's right correct that's right
Speaker 3correct um and then j with jane daniels jane daniels and joe burrow actually feel like an interesting tier into their own because they're very like similar players you worry a lot about the injuries they're both a little bit too skinny probably but there's a elite potential if everything kind of plays out right i just like the situation way better for drake may than i
Speaker 1situation's big yeah continuity okay so tier three then we would have we're moving down jane daniel the lsu boys jane daniels and joe burrow and then the rest of this tier would be jaylen hertz for the eagles justin herbert uh for the chargers caleb williams and the bears trevor lawrence for the jaguars and then at that point i'm like shouldn't jackson dart and kyler murray just be in this fucking tier and we just put all the rushing s quarterbacks in one giant tier is that insane no i i'm i'm more in that camp i i almost think that we should just have jayden burrow hertz herbert caleb lord everyone that could run for 10 touchdowns i mean even trevor lawrence ran for nine last year and then it's like i don't know what to do bo nix because he is mobile but broke his ankle but then it's like purdy and prescott and stafford and mahomes and like guys who are more passing base should probably just be the next tier after that i agree i think it's flat in this area i
Speaker 2really do i think it's why quarterback steve this year i think like qb4 to 12 is like pretty similar
Speaker 1i'm fine with it so i don't know what to do yeah honestly it's probably the right answer because i don't really it's such a strange year because if you look at it i think the person when i ask you who's the quarterback that you think is the quarterback that you think is going to be the quarterback that you think is going to be the quarterback that you think is going to be the quarterback but i look at it and i'm like first of all i just jalen hurts 11 offensive coordinators 11 years is just that thing i don't get set all the time but you ever just think about that imagine having 11 bosses at 11 years like just i i can you i was going through it i was trying to think about all them lane going back to bama lane kiffin steve sarkeesian brian dable mike loxley lincoln riley doug peterson shane steichen the only guy i had for two seasons and he made the super bowl that one and played amazing games and i think that's the thing that's the thing that's the thing that's the thing that's the thing that's the thing that's the thing that's amazing the super bowl amazing the super bowl brian then steichen left brian johnson kellen brian then steichen left brian johnson kellen brian then steichen left brian johnson kellen more kevin matulo and now sean manion more kevin matulo and now sean manion
Speaker 2more kevin matulo and now sean manion that is crazy manion another one that is crazy manion another one
Speaker 1that is crazy manion another one 34 years old god damn it backup 34 years old god damn it backup 34 years old god damn it backup quarterback quarterback quarterback but um yeah the hertz thing even last but um yeah the hertz thing even last but um yeah the hertz thing even last year he was about like he was a top year he was about like he was a top Top eight quarterback, even with everything going wrong for the Eagles. I'm like, isn't Jalen Hurts kind of just, aren't you just going to take him at his floor? How much lower is it really going to, even if you think the Eagles kind of implode, is it really good? Like, is Jalen Hurts really going to be that much worse than where you take him? But you're kind of like leaving all the upside that he's actually good on the table.
Speaker 2Here's my stance on Jalen Hurts. I had him last year and it was a mess. It was miserable. I had no fun. And I don't care that he was like, QB7, QB8. The Eagles offense was horrible to watch. Marie Kondo was right. Take players you want to want to watch. And I have Jalen Hurts in my QB10. They just lost A.J. Brown. Like, I kind of want to just stop there. I'm like, they just lost A.J. Brown. Jalen Hurts wasn't that good last year. The Eagles are kind of in limbo a little bit right now. And maybe they will snap back. The offensive line wasn't as good. They couldn't run the ball as well. There's a lot riding on the fact that Jalen Hurts needs to have like 11 rushing touchdowns. And I don't know. Do I want to attach myself to the Eagles once again this year? And if it's like week two and everyone's pissed off because they just... They just like score 14 points a game and win 14 to 10. I don't know if I want to be on that ride. I think I'm good is my point. DK, do you want to get on the ride?
Speaker 3I don't know if I want to, but I think he is another one of these quarterbacks that's just like he runs so consistently and scores so many touchdowns.
Speaker 2Even the way he runs is annoying to me.
Speaker 1I know. He can't throw the run. When he's running, it's like, you know, my brother just had a baby and I'm learning babies can't multitask. You know, babies, if they're eating, they're not going to poop. If they're pooping, they're not going to be able to eat, you know? But I'm like, when Hurts is running, he cannot throw.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Even I just like, yeah. He's not fast. Like, it's not... He's not that fast. No, he's not like angular. Like, he can kind of run north-south, but he's not for some of the runs all the time. It's like getting away from people as much as you want.
Speaker 2This will be the meanest thing I've ever said about Jalen Hurts, who I do think is good and I will never forget how good he played in that first Super Bowl against the Chiefs. There is an element of... You know, like Tim Tebow to him, where you're just like, just check the box score after and he'll have gotten you 19 points,
Speaker 1but getting there is kind of miserable. I really do think Hurts is really who, like, John Elway thought Tim Tebow was when they took Tim Tebow in the first round. Yeah. Like, all the intangibles you could ever want, work ethic, all that jazz. Like, Jalen Hurts, he is the epitome of just a winner. He's the first freshman to ever play for Nick Saban. He's, like, been... He went to the college football playoff every year, all four years he played in college. Like, he's been to two Super Bowls. He's only 27 years old.
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 1And he's been to two Super Bowls, one Super Bowl MVP. I believe, to Mahomes' point in his career, has matched what Mahomes did by 27, I think. But we don't know if he's good. And he's hot. We'll get to that. And he's very hot. We'll get to that next week, but he's hot. Very... I mean, look, he's hot. He... You know, I think women love that he has an all-women team of agents and reps. And he doesn't talk a lot, which is also very hot. That's a plus. And he doesn't really speak.
Speaker 2That's a huge plus. For women, yeah.
Speaker 1But, no, I... Better to say nothing, whatever... What's the expression, Heifetz? Oh, better to say nothing and appear stupid than to speak and remove all doubt?
Speaker 2Oh, that's funny. I've never heard that.
Speaker 1That's why people think I'm stupid.
Speaker 3We talk for a living. We have to appear stupid. I have to remove all doubt, so... Yeah, unfortunately. Here's his... Craig, to your point, though, like, the rushing being less reliable than it used to be, I think, obviously, he's getting a little bit older. He's not old, but... He's 27, stop. Running quarterbacks tend to as their career goes on... He'll be 28 in a few weeks. Stop running. Here's the deal. I'm gonna look... I'm just looking at rushing fantasy points per game going back to 2021. 21, it was nine points per game. 22, he was over 10 points per game, rushing only. 23, eight and a half. 24, almost 10 again. Last year, just over five.
Speaker 1Okay, but I think there's a specific... There's a specific play I think we can talk about that kind of is the crux of your points per game thing. It's like, are they gonna... Are they gonna tush-push again or not? Is the offensive line healthy or not? Can they do the tush-push with Jeff Stout and the O-line coach going or not? And I think it's a tremendous burden on the offensive line. Like, it is a... That play, I think Jason Kelsey had a joke that, like, basically, every time they called it, it probably took some days off of all their lives is the way...
Speaker 3It says a lot that the NFL was like, actually, you guys can keep...
Speaker 1doing it yes i said that was a whole band was it just sour grapes as soon as the eagles like aren't that good they're like ah fuck it who cares about that thing uh i don't know it's one of those if the eagles just start doing the tush push again and the offensive line appears healthier and saquon can run to more daylight it's the we'll we might feel pretty dumb for ranking low but i agree with craig what it really might come down to it might be as simple as this if you like watching your quarterback and spending time with them and being like they're on my team and every week dude i wouldn't watch jalen hurts play all the time but if you kind of don't give a shit and you put on red zone and you just like go to farmer's markets on sundays you're just like out and you're kind of half paying attention to your team and you check your box scores yeah take jalen hurts but craig's right it's not fun to watch you know it's fun to watch every other guy
Speaker 2on this list yeah like i think he belongs in this tier he's just at the bottom of it for me i have
Speaker 1him as my 10th quarterback uh well the other so the other people here it's a funny it's really such a grab bag it's joe burrow who could lead the league in completions or yards it's jaden daniels who i i think should be a tier above hurts who could also be a tier above and then it's like the two six foot six you know targaryen you know it's trevor lawrence and then i may guess herbert's not really targaryen the dragon riders and then the dragon riders and then i the god and caleb williams for the bears who i had a memento tattoo that was i told myself entering last season that like when we have 20 new play callers in the nfl i forget the exact number it depends how you count it but it's like more than half the league is a new offensive coordinator and it's so hard to evaluate them not everyone's like mike mcdaniel some five-year history right it's guys like declan doyle and sean manion and we don't know what they're gonna do if they're gonna be good at it so i'm like don't you want to just stick with the guys that we are pretty certain are great at this which is trevor lawrence having a second season in a row leap with liam cohen kayla williams have his second season leap with ben johnson and then i like i don't know everyone else and i and justin herbert who gets mike mcdaniel i think we should say clearly it's a 10 guys who the best seasons right here with mike mcdaniel to me it's like shouldn't we kind of not overthink it and be like those guys should probably be the priority here and like just not just look at the quarterback but like overall context there are three coaches here on positive will like lift all boats with a rising tide and then everyone else is like i don't know if jackson dart in the giants offense will be better or worse than what brian dable had last year i mean i completely agree
Speaker 2i think after josh allen drake may and lamar my next guys four and five are herbert and trevor outlined high fits i'm just going to be in on the chargers i don't care i'm in on them every year it's always a disaster no one has torn their patellar tendon yet in los angeles and so i'm
Speaker 1also you're in los angeles you should be double you should be double knock on what about that
Speaker 2yeah i'll double knock um i i'm just gonna i'm just doing it for herbert i want to be in i i believe in all of it he's like one of the more divisive conversations in fantasy and in real life football there's like a real split between if people some people think herbert is going to and some people think he's incredibly overrated he's the truth everyone else is wrong they're
Speaker 3wrong i agree i don't i hate that it's become like you're a hipster if you think good like
Speaker 1give me a break i i'm sure of half the people right now are listening are like well he's never done in the playoffs they lost the playoffs again first of all the idea that week 18 that like winner makes the playoffs game and justin herbert had i would say maybe the best regular season game against the raiders right four yeah four different four more than five plus that he can like probably one of the best fourth quarters i've ever seen and if they won the game they made the playoffs that's a playoff game also the idea that they got rocked by the patriots last year in the playoffs how many quarterbacks get that chargers team to the playoffs and a team that played eight different people at left tackle like the fact that he got the chargers to the playoffs is out of control yeah let me run through a little bit
Speaker 2about herbert and why i'm into him so he's he's he was the qb6 last year through through not through the first nine weeks he was playing really well and and honestly they were already hamstrung rashaun slater they're they have two top 10 tackles in the nfl rashaun slater and joel rashaun slater and torres patellar 10 and before the season even started so they got zero games out of him he got four games with joel four full games the other two joel went down with an injury so he really got four full games with one of his two top 10 tackles in the four games that justin herbert played with joel he averaged 21 fantasy points per game which would have been the qb1 last year i remember watching week one against the chargers i think it was down in or against the chiefs down in brazil i think yeah he was fucking awesome they kicked the shit out of the chiefs and i was like holy shit that's finally happening for the chargers and then the wheels fell off and everything was a mess and justin herbert gets the shit kicked out of him every single season they put a lot of effort into improving their offensive line they drafted a second round guy jake slaughter they brought in tyler beatish to be their center they have cole strange at guard slater and joel are knock on wood going to be back this year uh but to go back through like the first half of last season when herbert was playing really well when he was the qb6 he was running a lot he led all quarterbacks and rushing yards per game through the first nine weeks of the season last year and now you bring in mike mcdaniel which is like the most significant coordinator change in the nfl in my opinion like maybe you can say philadelphia because of what patulo did but like i don't need to go through all the two of stats and like what mcdaniel did for the dolphins they scored over 70 points in a game to what led the nfl in passing yards in 2023 and now in this like shanahan system that mike mcdaniel runs i feel like that's the first half of last season that system is about elevating like honestly like a mediocre quarterback and getting them to do great things look at like two and like brock purdy i'm not saying brock purdy's mediocre because i love him but like limited physically herbert is like rich rebar pointed this out that was a great point that herbert is like the greatest physical talent that the shanahan system has ever seen
Speaker 1a hundred percent steven a reason i used to joke that if justin herbert played for kyle shanahan he would have he would break the Peyton Manning touchdown record matt ryan won an mvp with kyle
Speaker 2shanahan and now now this system gets fucking terminator justin herbert like i'm just i'm not i'm just doing it i'm believing i'm just doing it i could
Speaker 1not agree harder with everything you're saying i know everyone's been like it's not new analysis to be like oh mike mcdaniel chargers will go well i actually think somehow it's being underrated because it's two things that are really hard to quantify it's hard to quantify how much the worst offensive line in the league becoming average can matter and then mike it's hard to quantify the chargers i think passing game wise like greg roman being office coordinator going to like bill barnwell at grantland like 15 years ago talked about mike singletary to jim harbaugh might be the best coaching upgrade in the history of the league and then the charge that then 49ers went to like three straight nfc championship games and i think coordinator wise i'm not going to go that far but greg roman to mike mcdaniel's one of the bigger offensive coordinator like poll to poll upgrades i can remember it's certainly up there and so you think about what mike mcdaniel's done where it's not just like tyree kill who did have his best seasons of his career in miami not kansas city uh and tua who did have his best seasons of his career in miami not kansas city uh and tua who looking back at what two was able to accomplish is amazing but players like aaron brewer who's like the center on miami who was one of the best office linemen in the league and like the dolphins brought him in like there were like a lot of players that on offense that mike mcdaniel brought the absolute best out of johnny smith like he like when coaches consistently maximize players uh careers at all these different positions that's a great sign and then you combine that with the charges where they were you remember the meme last year where the pff grades on the charges offensive line and the Sunday football they had austin deculus who was the lowest rated left tackle at 38 to 38 and then the center was uh bradley bozeman who was 36 out of 36 at center and then uh mckay beckton was the 37th out of 38th ranked right guard and they had the last ranked right tackle like that was sunday day football and he brought the team to the playoffs when you when that becomes an average offensive line and then you have a coaching upgrade i actually i i think herbert this is like mvp level season for herbert and i again this is even the lad mcconkey already goddamn has an injury it's bothering me but i think it's a great season for herbert and i think it's a great season for herbert i think lad mcconkey or quentin johnson's going to be one of the most underrated players in the nfl and if lad misses time every week lad misses quentin johnson's going to be like a top i think a top 12 receiver is in play for him every week and i think lad when he plays is going to eat i i think every part of this is the most important offense in the league for fantasy you talked about
Speaker 3the the greatest upgrade from coaches going from uh singletary to harbaugh and and you know this is another strong upgrading coach but like think about the difference physically between tua and herbert i don't i don't think physically i don't think physically i don't think physically you could have like a greater delta tua cannot do anything if he doesn't get his get the ball out of his first read like he can't move he can't throw on the run we've talked about his arm strength
Speaker 5ad nauseum you know the steven a smith it's crazy the difference between these two human beings
Speaker 2like physically is incapable of underthrowing somebody right like justin herbert you know for
Speaker 3all for all the reasons people don't like justin herbert like he could make the most insane throws you've ever seen in your life i don't think he's going to be able to do that he's going to be able to make the most insane in your life like he has a fucking howitzer for an arm he can throw he can make any throw and he's also the process and i know that's a cliche but like he's not just like
Speaker 2big arm throw fast he's like actually can process and go through his progression he's a better
Speaker 1processor than tua tua does it fast but two is sometimes guilty of like looking at the play on just deciding what he's going to do pre-step herbert's reading it in real time so i think he's a better processor than tua and he has way he's his physical tools are up there with josh allen not bottom of the league so no i i think i i agree it's easy but it's not like oh mike mcdaniel good no no the range of outcomes is like elite so i i yeah so yeah it's
Speaker 3just gonna be fun to see what mcdonald mcdaniel can do with a guy who can not only do everything that tua can do first read wise but also move and make things second action plays and all that stuff it's just gonna be so much fun to see what he can cook up and by the way he's one of the best run game designers that we've seen so the chargers should have a theoretically should have a very good run game to balance it out and i think it's going to be a really good run game to balance it everything out, help them do play action a little bit or like help them have more balance and and keep defenses on their toes basically because they can run the ball and throw it over your head play action so so with all that said would you rather
Speaker 1DK would you rather have Justin Herbert or Jalen Hurts come on I mean come on who do you want to watch would you rather have Herbert or Caleb Williams probably Herbert I think Caleb Williams
Speaker 3is definitely getting up there but um probably just take Herbert for the accuracy and everything
Speaker 2I think Caleb Williams is like way more volatile yeah Caleb Williams is like like like hot and crazy
Speaker 3yeah yeah do we want to talk about Caleb Williams right now because I think he is one of the most interesting players in fantasy as well this year he's kind of in that Jane Jane Daniels mold where it's like he could be the QB2 or one it wouldn't really shock me or he could fall and just like implode and it wouldn't really shock me either um I think the the best bet you can have with Caleb Williams is that he is more likely than not that he is going to be on a rocket ship in year two within Ben Johnson's offense we saw the improvement from what he did the year before Ben Johnson came and then what he did under Ben Johnson's tutelage there was so many small things that you saw with Ben John like even just like even the sideline demeanor the thing like his his calm collected on the details Caleb Williams took way way way fewer sacks it was a massive thing like coming out of his rookie year a lot of people thought Caleb Williams was going to be a massive bust just because he can't stop taking sacks like the sack rate was so astronomically high that the thought process was like basically there's never been a quarterback that had this that took this many sacks that ever ended up being good and so there was a lot of theories and thoughts that he just might not be good he just takes way too many sacks I think people confuse that for he's protecting the ball he doesn't want to throw interceptions he's like Aaron Rodgers in that regard where he just does not throw picks he has not thrown picks in his career he refuses to throw the ball into tight coverage when he can't really see it so he just ends up taking a sack or he tries to scramble and whatever so I think the sack thing was a massive massive massive improvement last year I think theoretically and you can I think you can project going into next year another year in Ben Johnson's system I really trust Ben Johnson a lot I just think he's shown over the last few years the play sequencing the way he uses the run game the way he takes pressure off of his quarterback the way he instills confidence in his quarterback I think all those things bode really really well for Caleb Williams going forward the offensive line I think should continue to get better and Caleb Williams last year was the QB eight in points per game in a large part because he also ran the ball quite a lot in terms of scrambling he was the fifth most scrambles in the NFL he had 76 total runs in the season he misses a lot of throws like his his accuracy was horrific at times but again it's kind of like that it is a little bit like that Aaron Rodgers thing where it's like either you either see it and you you drop it in a bucket downfield or you
Speaker 1just kind of chuck it yeah I'm dubious I don't know like the off target I think there's accuracy criticisms of Caleb Williams I think are not understanding what he's trying to do because sometimes I think he's incredibly accurate he's just yeah it depends on the chart he goes sometimes
Speaker 3there are some misses but I mean he yeah his off target throw rate is really really high and it's
Speaker 1he was generally pretty accurate that's because of the definite I think that that's frankly like bad like for example if there's a receiver in the end zone you're taught to throw his feet so that if he catches it or it bounces off the ground but you don't want to turn over in the end zone but if you take that logic to like the sideline if you're putting it in a place where only the receiver can get it depending on the charting and how it's being done that in theory could get charted as off target but Caleb Williams might have hit a bullseye and where he was aiming the pass like the charting is not perfect I guess
Speaker 3I do yes I think that there's definitely a gray area but that being said I've I've seen him miss he does have strange I've seen him miss pretty horrifically a lot of deep balls that were just
Speaker 1sailing yes he does have straight well who knows maybe it was DG Moore and walked off the field like maybe he was supposed to be there I don't know I think my question my question with Caleb is just um the Bears ended up just trailing at the end of every game for basically two and a half months straight and we were wondering if a Pope was just actually proving that God was real because the Bears just kept winning games and playing games out of their ass and they're not going to be throwing for the final 20 minutes of every game I think that'll get mitigated by the fact that there's just gonna get better I think that Caleb Colson Loveland Luther Bird everyone involved in the team is so young and everyone's gonna be better um my only issue is that I think Ben John they want to be a running team I think Ben Johnson wants to be a running team and that they're probably it's like Craig was always like disgusted every time the Lions were inside the first two like two yard line that oh well Jared Goff's not gonna get touched down here that's really the only concern is I think the Bears are going to be running the ball inside the three they're like the anti-rams I just think the thing with the Bears is I just don't see it I don't see
Speaker 2any major red flags like I just kind of look across the board and I'm like I like the offensive line I love the play caller I like the skilled players I like the quarterback kind of like all of it I'm like year two under Ben John they threw a lot at Caleb in year one you have to imagine the year two like he is going to be so much more comfortable I I just kind of there's not a lot I don't like other than Caleb's volatility I guess I guess it just depends on really what you think of Caleb so
Speaker 1much more than I have done so if you're saying Josh Allen's in a tier of his own and then it's like Drake Mayor Lamar Jackson it's the second quarterback off the board and at that point it's like Jaden Daniels Joe burrow Jalen Hurts Justin Herbert Caleb Williams Trevor Lawrence and then you got Jackson dart and Kyler is the 10th and 11th quarterbacks do you see a big enough difference because there are red flags at Jackson Dart obviously we don't know about the offense we don't think you can stay in the field sophomore slump all that jazz and then Kyler Murray who I mean I think he's underrated at this point do you see a big enough difference between Herbert Caleb Williams Trevor Lawrence and Hurts that you want to reach for one of those guys or are you okay you okay waiting and waiting and waiting getting dart and Murray I'm waiting around I think dart and
Speaker 3Murray probably should be a a notch below Greg I agree there's more risk involved I feel more
Speaker 2confident that if Justin Herbert plays 16 games 17 games I I think I know what he will be I I don't necessarily know if Jackson dart or Kyler Murray play all 17 games that like they will deliver I
Speaker 3don't feel 100 confident in that but I also just don't feel that confident they're going to play 17
Speaker 1games sure well GTA 6 is probably gonna get pushed which could be really game-changing for Kyler like if you take Kyler thinking the GTA 6 is going to ruin his life but then GTA gets pushed again you could have a really good so when is that coming out I think they say early December now let me check GTA 6 release date um no no November 19th but they gotta push that right now it's probably they're probably gonna stick to it they pushed it two years um so you get how you get two-thirds of a season of Kyler unless they push Grand Theft Auto can I
Speaker 2ask a question um I would like to suggest that Brock Purdy be included in this tier and I don't
Speaker 1understand why he's not we haven't so tier four would be Jackson dart Kyler Murray Bo Nix Brock
Speaker 2Purdy Dak Prescott no no the other tier the one above him with Caleb Williams you want Brock
Speaker 1Purdy a tier above Jackson Dart and Kyler yeah why isn't he uh I would argue because because he was
Speaker 3the last pick in the draft like eight years ago because he got hurt or something no I think the
Speaker 1answer is very simple it's that I I think if I told you that one of these guys was the number two quarterback and like Josh Allen was the number one quarterback this year and then this guy was second you'd be like that makes sense for Jaden Daniels no question Joe Burrow Jalen Hurts Herbert Caleb and Trevor Lawrence that's not weird and if I told you Brock Purdy was the second best quarterback this year you'd be like really like I just think it's like more surprising like I think that his ceiling is a little his he's like a really high floor guy but I don't think I think you'd be surprised if over the course of a season Brock Purdy was better like
Speaker 2than everybody except Josh Allen I mean you're right in that he has a high floor but the I don't think people realize how high the floor is like yeah on over the last three years combined he is the QB6 over the last three years combined he is first in the NFL in EPA per drop back and first in success rate he was the QB6 in points per game last year we talked about Trevor Lawrence being amazing in the playoffs last year Brock Purdy in the fantasy playoffs last year had the second best fantasy playoff performance in NFL history he had 94 fantasy points in the fantasy playoffs and he missed half the season with turf toe and he's been banged up a lot like he had shoulder stuff in 2024 he obviously had the elbow thing in 2023 and he had turf toe last year but in the eight games he played last year albeit beat up he was on pace for 43 touchdowns 38 passing and five rushing I'm he's
Speaker 1never not been a top 12 quarterback in points per game I I'm like I think the latter part of that I would put on the Niners lost Nick Bosa and Fred Warner like immediately on defense and I think the Niners defense collapsed and it led to more passing because the Niners couldn't run the ball sure which was so the Niners had to throw more probably than ever okay the last the last eight weeks in the
Speaker 2season if I mean he was the quarterback one he was the number one quarterback in the NFL in fantasy in the last eight weeks sure you could say it's because the defense was bad but like that is like as good as it gets and to be like he's not in the top three tiers to me it's kind of crazy I guess
Speaker 1my I I don't disagree with anything you say I think my counter would be Matt Stafford won the MVP last year and threw 44 touchdowns and we have him behind Brock birdie and we have Dak Prescott who led the league in completions two of the last three years behind Brock birdie and I'm like yeah it's probably the proper mentors I'm like I don't know who do you want to put him ahead of like if you wanted to put Brock ahead of Kyler or Jackson Dart I don't think that's crazy I think you should
Speaker 2be I have him ahead of Caleb and Jalen hurts I don't know what do you think of that DK
Speaker 3I think it I think it's uh totally fair to put him right next to Caleb Williams or right above Caleb Williams and ahead of Kyler Murray and Jackson Taro I'll tell you the reason people are more excited about Kyler and Dart is because of the rushing like period yeah and with Hertz the rushing you know obviously i think purdy is a better passer than jalen hurts but hurts has scored a shitload of touchdowns with his legs over the years um and and i think i think caleb williams and purdy are pretty similar in a lot of ways i mean if you look at what they average as rushers i always call purdy a sneaky little shit he's a great scrambler they are they are similar
Speaker 1scrambling caleb has way more power but i agree that they're both pretty but if you're looking
Speaker 3at just points from scrambling they averaged almost the identical amount of points from rushing last year like three three and a half he's just the problem is he's just he's he's a little cutie he's he's just it's the reputation and people are excited about caleb where caleb williams is going people are really excited in fantasy at least about kyler murray because he runs the ball and about jackson dart because he averaged seven points per game last year as a runner and so the upside is just astronomical everyone's trying to find the next guy he's going to be the qb1 or qb2 because he scores eight to ten touchdowns or more um and i just don't think that's it in the range of outcomes with purdy so it's just like a floor versus ceiling but you're absolutely right craig like everything you said is absolutely correct so he's been a top 10 quarterback every year he's been a starter i just why are we overthinking i was actually wrong he over the
Speaker 2last over the last three seasons he's the qb5 like three seasons it's funny five no i don't
Speaker 3just you know it's funny it's reputation it's funny too craig i pull this up and i wanted to
Speaker 1be like well we rank him there because he his touchdown rate last year seven percent of his every passes well i know i was gonna say seven percent of his touchdowns or passes were touchdowns that's really high it won't happen again but he actually did that in 2023 and 2022 which is funny i don't disagree with what you're saying i think the point though to me is quarterback is just deep and i think that that's coming and we can keep going with some of these other like sleeper stuff but i think the point to me is i don't know if i want to take a josh allen or whoever this year because whoever is going to be you're a 12 team like you need a 14 team like whatever you're like well how is this person 12th and like you're what you're saying is if brock party shouldn't be 12th then you're telling me dac prescott should be 12th who i could make a very compelling case is probably the favorite to lead the league in passing yards and again led the league completions attempts all that stuff kyler murray who again is a number one pick who say what you want he ran for 500 yards two years ago and it's now going to be on the vikings instead of the fucking cardinals or jackson dart who was a top five quarterback for the weeks that he was healthy and played and i'm like one of those guys is going to be the last quarterback taken you're right purdy's under underrated disrespect west coast bias all this stuff it sticks at the seventh round last pick thing but there's just so
Speaker 3many fucking good quarterbacks man like the way the more we talk about this and craig you're like the arguments you're making are very valid i think this is one giant here i think it's caleb dart murray nicks purdy dac stafford mahomes like any of these guys my homes was a qe4 last year in points per game and he's their 16th we're not even acknowledging that matt stafford or
Speaker 1mahomes might be a top 12 quarterback like i literally just say they're backup quarterbacks
Speaker 3it's one giant tier and it's pick your flavor what kind of quarterback do you want do you want you want to take the risky thing with dart and potentially he's the the next coming of josh allen from a fantasy point of view where he's running all over the place scoring 12 touchdowns as a runner blah blah blah do you want bo nicks because he's in the sean payton offense he's been incredible last year he was second in in total pass attempts um do you want purdy who's just been you know as reliable as that comes in the fantasy world in terms of just because he's in the shanahan offense and he's so good at running the shanahan offense
Speaker 1and craig's marinating in the niners group chat you don't forget all of craig's i mean
Speaker 3but the fact is like every year he's started he's been a top 10 quarterback top six yeah top six so i think everything that you're saying is valid it's just a matter of like pick your flavor what kind of what kind of risks you want what kind of upside are you looking for do you want the floor
Speaker 2the ceiling my point is is like he's going off the board at like qb 12 qb 13 and he's actually closer to like qb 6 7 8 and so i'm kind of like this is kind of nice i don't disagree i just think
Speaker 1disrespected by the rank and get in line matt stafford is fucking mvp we have him 15th patrick
Speaker 2mahomes is 16th i'm like but that's to me there's way more like matt stafford was getting injections into his spine 12 months ago and mahomes just tore his acl and i i feel i mean i guess like the niners have kittle or whatever but i i feel a little bit more confident in the environment and the i guess not i mean the rams have a fantastic environment but matt stafford's like 38 and i'm
Speaker 6nervous that makes me nervous that's all yeah the other thing is well there's no substance oh substations by the la facility i don't know there's a lot i would imagine in los angeles
Speaker 3probably a lot of substations the other thing i think to keep in mind here nuclear facilities towards san diego with pretty and stafford they the nfc west has a really bad very hard schedule all the teams the nfc west have a very very hard schedule this year and honestly maybe pretty is
Speaker 2not uh like maybe he gets hurt too much so maybe the answer is that we don't know what to do with
Speaker 1i think i think the the other thing coming out here is we don't know what to do with this like i think the other thing coming out here is we don't know what to do with this like tier of jackson dart kyler murray and beau nix where it's like jackson dart is reckless and had five concussion checks in 11 weeks and has a new coach or just coach and coaching staff kyler murray who i mean had a mid-foot sprain when an injured reserve did not return and then like was healthy but everyone just was like why don't we go our separate ways you don't get hurt we don't know you guaranteed money and kyler's now rehabilitating his career and then beau nix who broke a bone in his ankle in a play that nobody's saw in the divisional round and then like won a game versus the bills and then walked off and then shot you know like all these are very weird situations and that's dark kyler and beau separating like you know what i mean like yeah brock and dac and we don't know what side of it to put on and so really kind of becomes like a like a myers-briggs test of do you want upside with downside which is dark kyler beau or do you want more reliable people that like it's going to be a harder path to be truly truly elite which is brock dac so it's really just a flavor thing let me ask you this
Speaker 2out of the guys those three guys uh nix dart murray who do you feel like from a perception standpoint in the average fantasy football draft is like seen as the sexiest pick and who is seen as the least sexy pick out of those three my first impression would be that dart is seen as
Speaker 3the sexy pick because he because of what he does as a runner and he's still young all that stuff and then the least sexy pick would be murray because he flames out every year and is i don't know really sure i feel like nix is sort of the safe pick of those three and then you got so he's kind of just in the middle and then murray is the risky one who knows where the how the hell that's gonna go and dart is the guy who averaged he averaged over seven points per game as a runner last year um and i think that's like shades of josh allen or whatever people could like squint a little be like oh this guy could be the next josh allen even though i don't think that's gonna be the case but sorry hyphens but um yeah i just think jackson dart he's got an x in his name something there well who's the who's the
Speaker 1pucker fact the week one test who's the of these quarterbacks who's the one that has like an incredible first half they go to halftime in week one and you're like oh my god i did not have that guy in enough leagues like i should have ranked him higher because like to me if kyler murray comes out and the vikings score three touchdowns in their first two drives i agree it's that's the guy where you're like oh shit right kyler was drafted top 10 in baseball and football and went to a shitty card to win and he's like oh my god he's like oh my god he's like oh my god he's organization and is now in a like a good vikings team and has something to prove like there is something to be said for having like a professional near-death experience with your career and like look at kyler actually look at what jg mccarthy said about kyler's like being mean to him or bullying him or whatever but like the intensity that kyler is bringing i'm i don't know there is something to that that yeah i don't know anyway but i all that said i think the point is quarterbacks deep and you can wait until what craig said in the beginning you can just kind of go with the flow i you don't have to stress about it that much to be honest i think you should it's deep enough that you should have your preferences like you should know if you want jalen hurts or not and like think two steps ahead about your lived experience of a eagles team that's tough to watch and do you want to be on the chargers maybe you're someone who hates dealing with the charges you hate injuries and stuff you can have those preferences but i think the point is you can kind of just play i think more than any season i can remember you can really go with the flow and just see when it comes to you and just like i would have a list and just draw a happy with up till these guys starting for me and maybe that's my homes at 16 maybe for you that's like brock purdy at nine or whatever but i think you can be very relaxed at quarterback this year just because there's so many dudes and the worst thing that happens to you is you have reigning
Speaker 3mvp matt statford i think this is uh yeah i agree with that i think that we move trevor lawrence above caleb williams we make that a tier and then from 9 through 16 qb 9 through 16 caleb williams uh sorry let me roll down here caleb williams jackson dart tyler murray bonex brock purdy dak prescott matt stafford patch mahomes this is the late round tier
Speaker 1so you want caleb at a different tier than trevor lawrence i think so more that way craig i don't
Speaker 3why so do you want to drop him down to in this tier then no i would push him up i i think i think
Speaker 2the tier that lawrence is i would add caleb to that but hey craig's saying he's saying the top
Speaker 1we're saying the top so base josh should be his own tier then it's drake and lamar and then it should be herbert caleb williams and trevor lawrence and then you want to add brock purdy to
Speaker 2that craig i would add purdy and i did you say hertz yes yeah that that would be my tier but i under if you guys want to keep uh purdy down with like you bully be on party it's you can find move them up little guy's good nobody taught little guys knows what he's doing he's not even that little he just seems little but he's kind of nice kind of thick he's got that cherubic little
Speaker 1baby face he does he's a little cutie okay So that's a lot of those. guys are there any of the quarterbacks you guys want to hit sleep i mean the next tier here we have after the and again so the next year there's jackson dart kyler murray bonix dac prescott stafford and patrick palms and again stafford the only reason he's so low is basically just stafford at 14 touchdown passes from one yard out like the rams will be able to run the ball it's just unlikely to happen again there's nothing against stafford it's just hard to repeat that and i think that they were actually stat chasing and trying to get him an mvp like they actually were just chasing the numbers uh the next tier here we have malik willis for the dolphins jared goth for the lions jordan love for the packers baker for the bucks tyler shuck for the saints you know we can put daniel jones in there for the colts i don't really know what to do daniel jones personally with like what do you do with a mobile quarterback off an achilles injury um it's basically just a bunch of like the bland vanilla replaceable pocket passers that could be really good but you're not going to take over stafford or mahomes and any of them could pop golf love mayfield tyler shuck if that's your flavor because kellen moore the saints will run a lot of plays i think the question is just malik willis it's kind of his own tier isn't he he probably should be because on one hand it's like in theory he could run for a lot of yards because he's probably the fastest quarterback in the nfl at this point because lamar's 30 fields in his own tier last year we did and willis is similar fields tier he's as fast as fields he's not as big he protects the ball more but the the irony is i mean willis doesn't run that much like that's the funny part is has he ran for 65 yards in a game in the last three years like he hasn't actually shown he's going to run that much um but i also i don't i don't know if he's going to run that much but i what to do with like willis i don't yeah he's like a good backup quarterback because the reality is what's the difference in golf love mayfield shuck some cam ward someone will be available waivers as a pocket passer willis is like you could take him have a major backup to like kyler and just see what happens with the dolphins sure um but i wouldn't count on him quarterback is so
Speaker 2deep that i'm like man you can get bo nicks kyler murray purdy dart prescott mahomes stafford all those guys are like outside the top 10. i'm like i'm not sure why you would want to have malik willis be your starter when you get all
Speaker 1those other guys well i i think i don't think he should be your starter i think malik willis is probably the number one guy i'd have as my backup quarterback because it's just this if like what if malik willis is actually pretty good i i the real answer is what if the dolphins suck and malik willis is competent and he's doing what caleb williams is doing last year not in the dramatic wins but that the dolphins are just always down 14 and they're playing prevent defenses in the 25 30 rushing yards every fourth quarter he could do what jackson dart did last year yeah exactly
Speaker 3just a ton of rushing average 130 passing yards a game last year and it's yeah exactly but he was
Speaker 1a top six quarterback down the stretch and he scored garbage time yeah meaningless rushing in
Speaker 2the fourth quarter where it's a messy way to live like yes three win team and you're trying you're just like hoping this guy gets you to 16 fantasy points but you're not wrong i if i were going to take a risk on any of these guys i'd probably pick tyler shuck but what are his odds he's a top five guy yeah i guess like a true true ceiling maybe not but he last half of the season he was top 12 guy and i like everything about his situation and talk about like do we think he's good at least i've like seen him play like 10 straight games rather than malik willis who how many times has he thrown more than 20 passes in a game like twice his career so at least with shuck i have more of like a you uh you know a test case that's also a myers-briggs
Speaker 1test where this is why we try to do tiers instead of tiers because we don't want to do tiers because of rankings and we encourage you to make your own tiers too because when we rank them it's like well it depends on what you're trying to do if you want to back up quarterback that will just be reliable for you and you don't like you don't want to set it and forget it and like if your quarterback's hurt you want a player that i can put into my lineup and not worry about it yeah jared goff jordan love baker or even tyler shuck are probably better options if you i would recommend i think your back-end draft pick should be like extremely high upside players that maybe you end up cutting for another high extra upside player then i would go malik willis because i think if i had a bet on someone to lead all quarterbacks in rushing in week one on this group it would be malik willis and fantasy rules are stupid and rushing yards are worth three times a passing yard so i go malik willis but i also agree that tyler shuck is probably almost certainly
Speaker 2a better quarterback than malik willis i can't believe we're in a world where tyler shuck might be good like in our dynasty league i literally took him i was just like i don't know nobody else is gonna take him i guess i'll just take him and now i like might have a starting fantasy quarterback for the next 10 years nobody knows anything no that's my that's my
Speaker 1lesson nobody knows anything uh okay any other quarterback gaming cam war jones i i mean kirk cousins not gonna bet on it rogers is interesting is he no but uh any two quarterback league guys any if you're in two quarterback league is there who else are there any quarterback mayfield is kind of interesting i don't know he's four mayfield threw 41 touchdowns two years ago contract year the bucks are not giving him a a deal right now and we'll see how that gets resolved
Speaker 3he's a fucking dog did you see the video of him
Speaker 2he's a fucking dog did you see the video of him everyone's entitled right now golfing all these athletes and did you see baker go up to the sideline he did the dougie right well no they threw him a like i don't know what beer it was but he's shotgun with a bunch of fans and he he did the thing where he like used his teeth to make the hole in the can that's right he's the fucking best not his first rodeo yeah that tracks uh i do think i believe he said bad day to be a beer as he walked up like come on he's a he's a qb4 in
Speaker 12024 by the way yeah yeah the only guy i'd throw out if you're in a two quarterback league i kind of just think cam ward's good and i think brian dable will get i just think cam ward could be pretty like a very cheap he could be an x factor for sure uh okay anything else in quarterbacks so wait and get a quarterback that
Speaker 2you'll like to watch play football yeah there's so many now that are pretty good just like pick
Speaker 1the guy you like okay uh i want to do this backwards i want to do a piece of news here at the end of the show just because we haven't talked about it but the dk the seok sold for 9.6 billion dollars i know are you are you involved in this show i'm not involved in this show i'm not
Speaker 3a minority investor uh i tried it turns out you need a lot more money than five grand didn't cut it uh they're not selling shares that small okay unfortunately so yeah 9.6 billion uh paul allen bought the bought the seox i believe in 1997 i want to say it was like 160 million or something like that hundred less let like less than 200 million now it's 9.6 billion i did see though
Speaker 2that if paul allen had just put the money he invested he bought the seox for in microsoft's soft stock he'd actually have more than this okay well think about all this was probably more fun
Speaker 3the friends he made along the way yeah probably at a better time also by the way he saved the team they were like there was like a whole group trying to like move it and he stepped in and
Speaker 2was like fuck that dude if i if i had tens of billions of dollars i'm buying a sports team oh hell yeah and i'm making every fucking decision so and then your team is gonna go down
Speaker 1have i ever told you guys have you ever jerry jones's opening press conference when he bought the cowboys one of the first things he's someone asked him he's gonna make decisions he said let me be clear i'm gonna decide everything from jocks to socks like come on like it is one of the single coolest
Speaker 2things you can do with a phone money is buy a sports team and be like they're mine now that's
Speaker 1that's why it's so hard to run a team imagine buying the team for 10 billion dollars it's your whole life you're excited to do it and then you're like yeah the good ones don't do anything just
Speaker 2imagine owning the cowboys like that's crazy it's so cool you get to work with your sons
Speaker 3oh man i own the los angeles lakers like come on that's fucking awesome that's so sick by the way this guy was a uh minor minority owner in the 49ers prior to this now he just outright owns the seahawks that's yes he has to divest his uh 49ers well all the all the like david tepper who
Speaker 1owns the panthers was minority owner of the steelers you have to kind of become a minority owner before you can become maturity because you kind of get the inside track so can i read you a little bit about this guy so uh i don't know a ton about him but his name is vinod kosla who i believe who uh is incredible wikipedia co-founder of sun microsystems which is like original silicon valley computer company um just worth an absurd amount of money just if you know a very classic like tech guy wikipedia just an electrical engineer in the 1970s just incredible timing with life but can i read you a couple sentences from this guy's wikipedia let's do it first of all he was like 25 years ago already known as like the best venture capitalist in silicon valley but there was a like just investing in all these companies you've never heard of the 90s making obscene amounts of money but um that was the original version of the workplace apps instead of a jamf going for a billion dollars it was like random stuff but i i just shit myself reading this he worked at this company called excite and it says when vinod kosla was at excite he convinced the google founders larry page and sergey brin to sell them google for one million dollars and then the ceo of his company rejected the offer wow damn he almost got google for one million dollars i believe google is now
Speaker 3worth three trillion dollars and the ceo said no all right um by the way his wife niru is going to be the controlling owner of the team and i believe his son is going to be highly involved in this so
Speaker 1it is a family affair all right we'll get the family also he was his company was the first venture capital investor in open ai
Speaker 2Ah!
Speaker 1Yeah, we'll do it.
Speaker 2I'm going to get that text. My mom's going to text me after listening to this episode. Why didn't you invest in OpenAI?
Speaker 3Yeah, it's a good question, Craig. It was a charity. You should have made a donation.
Speaker 1Come on. Okay, a couple of emails and then we'll do a Transformers Movie Club. Oh, God. Okay. Okay. This is from Patrick from Pacific Grove. People. Pat. Pat's breakfast is spinach, orange, banana, cocoa, water shake, and 30 milligrams of Adderall. Hmm. Okay. He's on.
Speaker 3He's on. Okay, King.
Speaker 1So Pat writes, I used to live in a very rural area of California, the North Sacramento Valley. It is where they grow almonds. And you guys are making fun of me. I don't pronounce the L in almond. I say almond. Almonds. So he says the people to throw a wrinkle in all this. He says the people in almond country pronounce them almond like salmon.
Speaker 5Come on. They say almond. With no D? Almond. Oh, almond. Yeah, it's almond. You dropped a D as well. I did. But they say, well, he says like salmon, but it's almonds. They say almonds.
Speaker 1The people who grow the almonds.
Speaker 2That's getting further away from the word.
Speaker 1But it's, yeah, I know. Almonds. That one blew my mind.
Speaker 2Okay.
Speaker 1Language is wild. Then we got an email from Ben. Almonds. Ben. Bebo. Benjamin. He's so, Ben has emails for. He's an actual. He's an actual. Like, he's an actual trainer at a college. Like, he actually does like D1 sports. Okay.
Speaker 3Okay.
Speaker 1Athletic training. Like, the sports medicine. And then Ben says, breakfast, three scrambled eggs, two ash brown patties. Ben says, my primary role in sports medicine is treating soccer players. And that magic spray, when they just spray on the player, is just a cooling spray. There's no healing in it, anything. It's just cold. So it makes the player go numb. And you go about the match. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he says, I have the spray, but I don't use it because I work with the women's soccer team and women don't cry and flop about little bits of contact.
Speaker 2Damn. So it is kind of like icy hot spray a little bit.
Speaker 1It's just icy spray. Yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah. It's just icy spray. Interesting.
Speaker 3I'm glad I got an answer here. Well-worn territory at this point, but like, obviously, soccer would be so much better without the flopping. It's the only thing. Stop it.
Speaker 1Knock it off. And the VAR just got. Just stop it. So someone had an idea for VAR. Not someone. It's Arsene Winger, who's like one of the best coaches ever. He said that there should be daylight between the player and the defenders for offside so that there's not these ticky tack VAR. I thought that was a good idea. Another. We got an email from Mark about hockey helmets. Mark. And bone. Because remember, Gordie Howe didn't wear a helmet for 25 years. Right. Right.
Speaker 4Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1Mark. One fried egg. And it was seen him at a coffee. Mark says that. So the Hamlet drinks. Because on the one egg.
Speaker 2I don't see a lot of one egg.
Speaker 1I almost said that. One egg. One egg is. You might as well not eat.
Speaker 2Who's cracking one egg into a pan? Yeah. You know, that's interesting. One egg. He's got one egg. You're pretty sick, Chubbs. He's got one egg. He's got one egg.
Speaker 1It is. It is true, Craig.
Speaker 3It's like one egg is just not enough. One egg.
Speaker 1Come on. It's like no man's land. It's like you're almost hungrier eating the one egg. Yeah.
Speaker 2You've ignited your stomach. You've woken up your stomach.
Speaker 1So apparently. The NHL made helmets mandatory on July 1st, 1979. But any player who had signed a contract prior to that date was allowed to play without a helmet. So there are plenty of players.
Speaker 2That's stupid.
Speaker 5What?
Speaker 1I don't know. The contracts. I don't know. It works. They didn't want mutiny on their hands. Exactly. Imagine trying to. You tell the hockey player. You tell Happy Gilmore that he can't make the team. But so there's a few guys just went 25 years without helmets, including Craig McTavish. Craig McTavish. Probably. What a great hockey name. Craig McTavish. Almost 20 years without a helmet. But if you think those guys are psychos. Mark writes that goalies did not wear helmets or any kind of head protection until 1959. Insane sport. So there were 50 years of pro hockey without helmets on anybody, including the goalies.
Speaker 3How fast? How fast is like an elite slap shot? Go fucking fast. 200 miles an hour or some shit. What is it?
Speaker 1I have no idea how fast. It's 200. It goes up to 100 miles an hour. It's probably up to 100.
Speaker 3That's getting hit in the face with it.
Speaker 1But like, yeah, no helmets on goalies where you're literally in front of the thing they're aiming at is pretty psychotic. Not going to lie. I'm surprised it's not faster.
Speaker 3It feels like you can't even see it.
Speaker 5You know what I mean? You can see the pitch. Well, it's because you're kind of lined up right behind the pitcher sideways. I don't understand the pitch, but still, it feels like it should be faster.
Speaker 2Take it up with Gordie Howe.
Speaker 3I don't know what to tell you. Maybe we need to. We need to get people are better at slap shots. I don't know.
Speaker 5I also just read the first line Google Gemini gave me. I could be wrong. Happy Gilmore is probably put in the 150.
Speaker 2Let me look that up. How fast is Happy Gilmore's slap shot? Come on. Is that goal regulation size or what? We don't know. We'll never know.
Speaker 3Damn. But anyway, taking a puck to the face can't feel great.
Speaker 2Yeah. Block it with your face. What if you shot me in the face? Isn't it? Isn't it natural human instinct to hide your face? How does it even work?
Speaker 1Well, that's the thing. It's like sometimes people think they can hit a pro baseball, like an actual fastball from a baseball pitcher. And it's like, I bet you couldn't stand there without flinching, like, just never mind swinging. I would just curveball out of the way. Yeah, I have a couple other. You guys know we should get to Transformers summer movie club, summer movie club time. DK, did you finally watch Transformers four months after I did?
Speaker 3What? That's a cool way to kick off the summer movie club. Watched all two hours and a half.
Speaker 2You fired the thing up at 7:00 AM this morning. Autobots roll out.
Speaker 3I'm not going to lie. I put it on, started at like 10:30 last night thinking it would be like a crisp 90 minute show. You know, I don't know. I thought they made movies shorter back in the day. And then I looked it up. I'm like, I paused it at 12:30. I was like falling asleep. I'm like, when does this fucking movie end? Didn't feel like it was getting anywhere close. And I'm like, damn. I have another hour. So I had to wake up a little early this morning and finish it. Don't bad movie. Oh, horrible movie. That's your opening statement. Bad movie. One of the worst movies I've ever seen.
Speaker 2What the fuck are you talking about?
Speaker 3I'm not doing this. Look, I am not.
Speaker 2One of the worst movies you've ever seen.
Speaker 3I'm not trying to be. I'm not pretentious. I eat quesadillas every single day of my life. This is the quesadilla of movies. This movie sucks. It's terrible.
Speaker 2Oh, my God.
Speaker 3It makes me a little. I judge you guys a little for liking this movie. This movie fucking sucks. I couldn't wait for it to be over, and that took forever. It just never end. It would never end. The only redeeming quality of the movie was, like, the cute relationship between Shia LaBeouf and Megan Fox. But that was, like, barely, barely worth watching at all. All right. So that was Summer Movie Club. We're going to start Summer Movie Club off on a bad note. I love the idea of it. You guys made me watch this movie. By the way, I have seen this movie before, and I think I just blocked it out of my memory because it was so bad.
Speaker 1But I like the idea that we saw this when we were 12, and you're watching it now at 45.
Speaker 3Yeah, I can see why a 12-year-old would really like this.
Speaker 2TK, I was 13 when this came out, and I would argue that there is no more perfect age than 13. Michael Bay knows what teen boys want in a film, and he crushed it.
Speaker 3I think that's true.
Speaker 2I came away more impressed with Michael Bay.
Speaker 3I don't think 12-year-old boys know what a good thing is, though.
Speaker 1You don't think Megan Fox talking about high-rise double-pump carburetors squirting the fuel in so you can go faster? You learn a lot about cars. My dad was a grease monkey.
Speaker 2I love it.
Speaker 3A lot of guys don't like when you know more about cars than them. Quite literally, Craig, if you want to go through some of my notes, I said it's like the script was written by a 12-year-old boy. Well, maybe your distributor cap's a little loose, TK.
Speaker 2I thought this movie was, look, it is what it is, but like, I don't know, I think there's a lot of charm to it. I think the supporting characters are like, honestly, the cast is pretty good. Like, I think Anthony Anderson is really funny. I love him. I love seeing Jon Voight, Bernie Mac crushed it.
Speaker 3Bernie Mac was killing it.
Speaker 2John Turturro. Yeah, like, when Anthony Anderson's screaming at his grandma, I don't know. This movie's also like pretty vaguely racist. All the robots have like very questionable accents. Sure. Which is weird because they're from space. Well, they learned from the World Wide Web how to speak. The World Wide Web. They're just like, "They're going for the files." Yeah, it's okay. So, DK, you didn't like the, this movie begins, and I would argue, maybe the most badass, cringey way ever. The opening line of this movie is, "Before life began, we had the cube." The opening line of the movie.
Speaker 3Oh, my God. I really just dis, I'm sorry, but I just really dislike Michael Bay's shtick. Like, the way he directs movies, it's like, like, half this movie was a slow motion shot where the camera's moving from, like, a really low angle of people just, like, staring in bewilderment. The bad boys, too. It's like they watch Bad Boys one time, and he's like, "I need the whole movie to be this."
Speaker 2I think Michael Bay's now actually on the radar. I do feel like he's a punchline.
Speaker 1michael bay knows what should be on captured with cameras he does craig i don't know if you notice
Speaker 3this michael bay knows what men want pretty much the entire movie is has music in the background yeah it's one it's one two and a half hour long action sequence do you remember that scene in
Speaker 1succession where logan royce someone's lecturing him on what people want he's like you're gonna try to tell me that i don't know what people want he's like i know what people want like that's
Speaker 2michael bay oh god uh kevin dunn shia's dad's great the guy from veep that guy he is good he
Speaker 1is good yeah there are way more actors of this that i recognize that i ever remembered like i couldn't i had no idea there were so many like there's some good there's some good cameos in
Speaker 3the movie let's try and think positive here good cameos you don't have to be positive say whatever you want you didn't like it i couldn't wait for it to be over you know i've never wanted a movie to end more um
Speaker 2I was thinking about like the popularization of like skrillex and all that stuff came like kind of a little bit after 07 i was like fuck michael bay was kind of on that shit
Speaker 1there was there was some things that were ahead of the curve i have to say the one thing not to step on the rewatchables here but what age the worst was shia labeouf being just absolutely bewildered by a self-driving car now i'm like i see eight of those a day now it does kind of make you think about way most call one for seven dollars i'm
Speaker 2like yeah you think you think they're transformers dude i can't i can't tell you guys how much i thought shia was the guy and how much like he was my favorite actor as a kid like he was the coolest and i thought he was truly going to be like the next i don't know he was great super funny and then he was like he did holes transformers fucking eagle eye disturbia big stuff holes is incredible i'm tired of this grandpa holes is part of your guys's hole holes is literally like millennial mount rush i've seen no i've never seen it so important young millennial we might have to add that we might have to i'm tired of digging holes grandpa you know what's funny transformers and holes both have john voight the holy
Speaker 3you're right yeah he's the face of a generation i was thinking about like the millennial movies
Speaker 2that i love three of them have john voight transformers holes and national treasure all
Speaker 1got john oh my dude national treasure is in fact a national treasure too dude national treasure i actually think national treasure started q anon like it kind of all went from there yeah they're just asking questions you know they're just asking questions it's like if you watch it now you're like oh okay so they're they're talking about what like well the eye on the money leads to a gen i'm like this sounds like you know pizza katie i don't
Speaker 3know i'm sorry i said earlier that he watched bad boys he directed it so yeah yeah i didn't i didn't oh you didn't even know you didn't know that yeah dude i believe make the whole make the whole movie out of the slow motion shots he has megan fox in a fountain in bed in bad boys somewhere i do like the movies the rock and armageddon the rock and armageddon both good movies yeah this one was
Speaker 1painful for me it's great the rock is phenomenal armageddon michael bay just yeah megan fox really mattered in 2007 megan fox was very important i did i did notice
Speaker 3on so i'm just reading the ai overview of michael bay he's known for his kinetic camera movement stylized lighting and massive practical explosion the kinetic camera movement annoys the shit out of me can we just have one scene where he's not like on a track no just stop there's a great it's like stressful to me do you know the comedian nick cortisol strikes dk what's that do you know
Speaker 2the comedian nick yeah yeah he had a great bit from a long time ago about transformers where he's kind of talking about people like you oh god and he's like you know me we've gotten we've just gotten way too uppity and like our expectations are so high now with movies he's like people go see fucking transformers and they walk out and like yeah i saw it it's okay yeah it sucked transformers sucked he's like if they showed that movie to people in the year 1950 their fucking heads would explode they would kill themselves after seeing the movie all right and now it's like yeah yeah
Speaker 3sucked when you're watching this what it's not the 1950s all right watching we've seen some shit now dude watching bumblebee go we don't have to think everything is good we don't i disagree with you nick we don't have to agree that this bullshit is good it's not entertaining it's not fun this man
Speaker 2like invented the modern action movie transformers is fucking crazy in 2007 i hated it i wanted i
Speaker 3truly like was sighing to myself just in my living room watching i'm like when is this fucking thing
Speaker 2i mean look it is aggressively 2007 this movie i want to look up the soundtrack i mean you obviously have lincoln park at the end what i've done did that hit for you dk when the autobots roll out or
Speaker 3no yeah it's pretty good we got thrilled because it was over i would that truthfully i got i got goosebumps because i was like hell yes it's over thank god the sweet release i i was begging for the sweet release of death but dude that was my
Speaker 2ringtone what i've done it was great banger we got we got fucking taken back sunday lincoln park this movie is so 2007 sunday i still megan fox doing a high-rise double pump carburetor and
Speaker 1shia labeouf's look at her like look at it and she's like double pump i'll be honest i laughed
Speaker 3out loud at one point in this movie and it was when the first meets all the transformers and one of them is like this guy wants to fuck her i can smell his pheromone he doesn't say that but he's like this guy wants to mate with her yeah he's like this is
Speaker 2our medical transformer i can tell by his pheromones yeah and his giant erection you didn't you didn't like the other guy being like this is jazz and he's like what's up homie fuck it was like prison
Speaker 3mike from fucking the office it's like jesus christ this is this is really hard to watch dude
Speaker 2i don't know if it's the second transformers or the third but there's one where there's like these two like twins who are like little like mini coopers or something and they
Speaker 1the accents they're tough well i i i i trailed off on the transformers sequels oh i watched i said there's two there's three sequels no there's more by there's one but
Speaker 2there's something under the pyramids and then they go to space transformers two has shia and megan fox transformers three has shia but no megan fox yeah i stopped watching and then it goes to mark wahlberg oh god of course never tapped in for that yeah i don't think i saw that one age of extinction in 2014 was mark wahlberg it is two
Speaker 3hours and 45 minutes can i can i ask it just like a genuine question i understand that like the cgi is really uh it was ahead of its time maybe i don't know can you tell what the fuck is going on at any point in time during this movie it's just like so much moving stuff i feel like can't all very close up and moving constantly i feel like all the cool cgi is ruined by the fact it's all close up and you can't tell what the hell is happening i'm fucking done with this i'm done maybe you need glasses um i just think this movie was horrific and terrible all right and
Speaker 2i can't believe you guys like it well okay yeah so next up we'll watch kingpin can't wait to destroy that
Speaker 3hold on let's see how long kingpin kingpin run time it's probably 95 minutes 114 minutes oh that's almost two hours
Speaker 1that's kind of sneaky long for a comedy damn it thank you dk thank you craig thank you you better be ready for the song by the way thank you nikhil thank you to carlos thank you austin thank you everyone for listening thank you to the seven for sending in hot quarterback rankings we are going to have hot quarterback rankings for you next week and thank you everyone coming for the live show in los angeles go to the ringer.com slash events for the show on august thursday august 27th and the tickets go live at noon pacific on thursday or sorry wednesday july 15th and so if it's after that time then they're live now so go get them
Speaker 2and of course thank you lord well i guess to stay in tune with what dk was saying where he thought transformers was legitimately bad yet it was extremely popular i'm going to bring a 2011 song that i think is officially the first legitimately bad song that has made the list of millennial bangers lmfao's party rock anthem yeah which is not good and and yet was one of the biggest songs of my life in high school i also popularized the first dance move that actually made you look lame the better you did it which was the shuffle you know the shuffle that they do in the song
Speaker 1i don't think i know i know exactly what you mean if you're really good at it that's you look dumb it looks kind of dumb i you have said to me in the past that if there was a single song you were most ashamed of for our entire generation it's it is this song uh party rock
Speaker 2anthem yeah yeah i was deciding between this and um i'm in miami bitch which is another song from
Speaker 1them no this is the right choice there's always there's a point in your life where you learn that the two guys in lmfao are um not in fact friends or brothers but actually one's the uncle and that really changes what yes uncle and nephew it's red foo and sky blue yeah they're not obviously what is the other's uncle and i that changes the entire it makes you reevaluate
Speaker 2things um does it make you reevaluate more to learn that before they they came up with the genius name of lmfao they wanted to be called sexy dudes
Speaker 5That was like a Targaryen level uncle. I think they both play.
Speaker 2Yeah, and then their grandmother, they were asking what their name should be, and they told their grandmother that they wanted to be sexy dudes, and she responded LMFAO. And that's how they did that. Oh, really?
Speaker 6It's actually kind of wholesome.
Speaker 2DK, do you know the song Party Rock Anthem?
Speaker 6Yeah.
Speaker 2Party Rock's in the house tonight?
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, yeah. Party Rock is in the house tonight. I can't believe how big that song was for how bad it is.
Speaker 1I'm embarrassed for us that it was that big.
Speaker 3Are they, is it sort of trying to be like a Weird Al Yankovic thing, where they're like, are they trying to be funny? No.
Speaker 2No, I think it was just like 2008. Trying to be cool. I think it's kind of just how it was. I think that whole look and vibe.
Speaker 1I mean, Kanye in 2008 put out glasses that had little bars on them with no lenses and everyone was fucking obsessed, which in retrospect was the stupidest thing that's ever happened.
Speaker 3No, those are from the 80s.
Speaker 1They're from the 80s? I think, yeah. Really? He was trying to bring them back. Well, they're dumb. They were also absolutely massive, and then everybody got them as a gag.
Speaker 5Wait, send me these things. I'll see if they were from the 80s. Craig, tell me if I'm overrating this, but this was just an absolute,
Speaker 1every...
Speaker 2Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about. The Kanye glasses?
Speaker 1I'm going to drop them. These were, everybody had these. A stupid fucking pair of these. Of course.
Speaker 3What was, the 2000s, the aughts. That was a weird, that was a weird time. Yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 3What time wasn't weird? All the times were weird.
Speaker 2A couple lines from Party Rock Anthem. In the club, party rock. Looking for your girl, Sheon Majock. Did they invent the phrase, like, party rock? Like, what, what was that? Party rock anthem. What is that? Did they come up with that?
Speaker 3I'm sorry for party rock?
Speaker 2I'm sorry for party rock. Is that them?
Speaker 3I don't know. I don't, I don't think I used it in everyday parlance.
Speaker 2Like, party rock is in the house tonight. What does that mean?
Speaker 3I don't know. Every day I'm shuffling.
Speaker 5It is catchy. And then it's like, and then it's Transformers. It's like,
Speaker 3if Lowby Island was like a real band that wasn't trying to be funny.
Speaker 2Yeah, like the movie Popstar. That's a great movie. Never Stop Never Stopping. Yeah, they invented the phrase party rocking. Okay.
Speaker 3Gotta give them some credit for that.
Speaker 2That's just like a, like, yeah. I don't, I still don't really know what it means, but they created their own anthem out of something that didn't exist. I don't know what it means,
Speaker 1and it's not provocative.
Speaker 3They created their own anthem out of something that had prior not existed.
Speaker 2Like, there's just so many songs like this that, like, will never return. Like, in the same way that I, like, I'll go back and listen to CCR. I love the mamas and the papas. I love ABBA and the Bee Gees and More Than a Woman. It's like, More Than a Woman, number one song in 1978 or whatever it came out. Party rock anthem was the number one song in 2011. Embarrassing. And there's like, there's a 0% chance my child one day is like, man, dad, I'm going back in time and listening to LMFAO. They're pretty good.
Speaker 3They might be playing it at parties, but, like, ironically, I, yeah.
Speaker 1Well, what's the, I will say, though, what is the deal with ABBA? Because ABBA has an incredible comeback with our generation, but I watched an episode of Anthony Bourdain going to Sweden, and Bourdain hated ABBA. Bourdain hates, hated ABBA because he was a punk rock purist, and I gotta tell you, of all the blind spots I have, the various rock subgenres hating each other, like, I don't understand. It's like, I don't understand it. But I, I don't know, DK, like, I guess you're not old enough either, but, like, was ABBA hated at the time by some people for being too pop?
Speaker 2I think ABBA was seen as, like, bubblegum pop and, like, and, like, easy, kind of, like, uninteresting music, which I disagree with wholeheartedly.
Speaker 6Yeah. Well, maybe, then maybe it'll come back. That's what your, that's what your kids are gonna come out and say.
Speaker 2Well, I think ABBA has persisted because I actually think, like, the melody of ABBA's music is very modern. I think, like, the way that they sequence their songs and the beats and stuff like that are, like, you just hold up. I just think they've aged well in the way they've, they've instructed the songs.
Speaker 6Well, maybe Party Rock will, too.
Speaker 2Yeah, I don't, every day I'm shuffling. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. It was a car, and then now it's a whole transformer.
Speaker 3I forgot about, like, the little, like, the high pitch. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.
Speaker 2Wow. I'm reading the top line of the Party Rock Anthem Wikipedia. It's a song by American electronic dance duo LMFAO featuring English singer Lauren Bennett and American producer Goon Rock. Don't know who that is. Goon Rock. Goon Rock? Goon Rock. He's a 51-year-old man named David. Goon Rock.
Speaker 5I wish his name was just Goon. Oh, one word. Goon Rock.
Speaker 2Yeah, Goon Rock.
Speaker 5The original Gooner. Was it Gooning back then?
Speaker 2I know. Dr. Dre Kanye Juvenile. Oh, my God. Where did that name come from? I have no idea. Why did he pick that?
Speaker 6What? Hmm. J-Lo. Wow. He did a lot of big songs.
Speaker 2He worked on Watch the Throne?
Speaker 3Goon Rock. Craig, Goon Rock originally wrote the song for Flo Rida. Which one? Oh, my God. Party Rock Anthem. Oh, really? Wow. Flo Rida passed on the song. Flo. Flo knew what his style was and he stuck to it. Damn it.
Speaker 1He understood. He understood. Oh, my God. Wow, Goon Rock. Goon Rock made the liftoff song on Watch the Throne, which is the one that has Beyonce, which means this man was the buffer between Beyonce and Flo Rida. Beyonce and Kanye in a song. Oh, my God. I can't believe Party Rock was for Flo Rida. God, would that song be bigger or smaller with Flo Rida?
Speaker 2No, I don't think it would have sounded the same.
Speaker 1I feel like... Goon Rock also wrote Sexy and I Know It.
Speaker 6This is so funny.
Speaker 3Who is Goon Rock? Goon Rock, after Flo Rida passed on Party Rock Anthem, he then changed the beat to feel, quote, more epic, inviting, and fun. If anyone knows Goon Rock,
Speaker 1will you email us at ringerfantasyfootballgmail.com? Goon Rock, you have a standing invite to come on this podcast, Goon Rock. Goon Rock. Please get Goon Rock on the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. What's he up to now? He's gooning, dude. That's crazy.
Speaker 2He's Goon Rocking.
Speaker 1I'm sorry for Goon Rocking.
Speaker 2It should have been the fucking Goon Rock Anthem, not Party Rock.
Speaker 1Sorry for Goon Rocking.
Speaker 5The Goon Rock Anthem.
Speaker 1Oh, my God. All right. Goodbye, everyone. Goodbye, everyone. Goodbye, everyone. Reset. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York for Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.
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